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davekay1971
09-26-2009, 11:16 AM
Obviously, decisions about how to run this place are entirely up to the mods and owners of the site, and I remain appreciative about the opportunity to have this site and all the work those folks do to make it an enjoyable gathering place for Duke fans.

That being said, I think it's an unfortunate decision to kill the PPB. Despite occassional incivility, overall it was a great place for an exchange of news, views, and opinion.

I'll miss the great insights I found there, especially from folks like Jim3k, Allenmurray, Malcolm, and many others on the "other" side of the political spectrum. This is a post simply to reflect my hope that, if the mods desire, they may reconsider and perhaps allow the board to be reborn.

Indoor66
09-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Obviously, decisions about how to run this place are entirely up to the mods and owners of the site, and I remain appreciative about the opportunity to have this site and all the work those folks do to make it an enjoyable gathering place for Duke fans.

That being said, I think it's an unfortunate decision to kill the PPB. Despite occassional incivility, overall it was a great place for an exchange of news, views, and opinion.

I'll miss the great insights I found there, especially from folks like Jim3k, Allenmurray, Malcolm, and many others on the "other" side of the political spectrum. This is a post simply to reflect my hope that, if the mods desire, they may reconsider and perhaps allow the board to be reborn.

I second that opinion.

Lord Ash
09-26-2009, 11:31 AM
I must say, it was the smartest, most polite political discussion board I've ever seen, and I learned an awful lot from the smart folks from both sides. The PPB and Colbert are where I got my best news!:) A real shame to see it go.

dukestheheat
09-26-2009, 12:56 PM
I, too, have been a little down since the demise of the PPB. I understand the decision of the mods, though, and I'm sure it was a tough decision for them to make.

I'd like to give a great 'shout out' to all the PPB participants in that epic Abortion thread while I can; this topic is usually very highly emotional and contentious, but I do want to say that the discussion in that thread, though at times emotional, was handled very well and rarely bordered on the contentious. I learned a lot in that whole discussion and I believe that the discourse there was professional and reflected well on the Duke way.

Onward we press.

dth.

Jim3k
09-26-2009, 02:49 PM
Obviously, decisions about how to run this place are entirely up to the mods and owners of the site, and I remain appreciative about the opportunity to have this site and all the work those folks do to make it an enjoyable gathering place for Duke fans.

That being said, I think it's an unfortunate decision to kill the PPB. Despite occassional incivility, overall it was a great place for an exchange of news, views, and opinion.

I'll miss the great insights I found there, especially from folks like Jim3k, Allenmurray, Malcolm, and many others on the "other" side of the political spectrum. This is a post simply to reflect my hope that, if the mods desire, they may reconsider and perhaps allow the board to be reborn.

Thank you for the kind words, Dave, and back at ya. I know of no place (though I never looked for one, either) that had the intellectual level and knowledgeability that the PPB provided. It was, I think, primarily a place to learn. In some ways it was classically Socratic -- and as a result, I think most of us are better off for it.

As for the takedown and the reasons for it, I have no first hand information. However, as a participant in its earlier incarnations and a mod under the SBBS format, I think I understand the difficulties the mods faced and Julio's sense that it became something other than what he envisioned, the neighborhood pub that JG mentions above.

I know that was Julio's and Boswell's (and James') concept. But of course at truly neighborhood pubs, people don't (supposedly) engage in provocations. The PPB became a place for provocations -- but not in what I would characterize as really uncivil. It developed its own rules (prodded by the mods) and became a debating society -- something along the lines of Harvard or Cambridge or Oxford. Parliamentary boxing if you will.

That's not a bad place to be, though I must say it does overload the mods, since the anonymity induced folks to go beyond what they would do if their identities were revealed. OTOH, that very anonymity allowed very knowledgeable people on the Board to offer their specialized information to the group. In several instances, I am sure their employers would not have allowed them that freedom had their jobs and names been used.

I do want to thank the mods for their service. In particular, I'd like to single out Cavlaw and Jason Evans. A special word, too, for JBDuke, who though we disagreed on one specific issue, hung in there with his perceived integrity on the point. He worked as hard as anybody to keep us in line.

Best wishes to all of you -- on both sides of our debating aisle. May we be once again able to come to the tables and present what we know to be true.

YourLandlord
09-26-2009, 05:18 PM
It was, I think, primarily a place to learn.

Bingo.

YourLandlord
09-26-2009, 09:28 PM
I'll miss the great insights I found there

Agreed -- somewhat uncivil at times? Sure -- although I'm not sure compared to what standard. Certainly more civil than any other message board or television screaming-head program for that matter.

At least the posters there tell it like it is and if they don't, they get called out for it. This is unlike any other type of information/news source -- one can read a newspaper, or an opinion piece, or watch a television segment, and have to accept what is said without any instantaneous analysis or presentation of contradicting information. We had this valuable (and yes, spirited) resource in the PPB.

Additionally, the PPB was not significantly one-sided as are most other discussion boards (after all, like minds congregate). I think this was part of the recent increase in spirited-ness ;) of the board -- there was a balancing of the number of perspectives on both sides, leading to more debate than historically has existed -- naturally, this will cause some overheating at times. However, upon admonishment from mods, it seemed things would cool down as intended. [I recognize it shouldn't be the role of mods to constantly police posters like children.]

--

The PPB contained a truly impressive collection of minds on a broad range of subjects, including law, finance, and policy. It was an incredible learning place for those interested in these topics.

I only hope the closing of the PPB as a centralized depository for this knowledge (one that can be avoided by if one is not interested in such topics) will not cause the highly intelligent, worldly, experienced people who posted there to drift from the DBR, never to return.

tommy
09-27-2009, 12:32 AM
I agree with the sentiments above. Though I didn't post in the PPB that often, I would read it often and found myself considering perspectives on issues I had never thought about. It was intellectually stimulating and thought-provoking, it really was.

allenmurray
09-27-2009, 11:45 AM
I know that was Julio's and Boswell's (and James') concept. But of course at truly neighborhood pubs, people don't (supposedly) engage in provocations. The PPB became a place for provocations -- but not in what I would characterize as really uncivil. It developed its own rules (prodded by the mods) and became a debating society -- something along the lines of Harvard or Cambridge or Oxford. Parliamentary boxing if you will.

That's not a bad place to be, though I must say it does overload the mods, since the anonymity induced folks to go beyond what they would do if their identities were revealed. OTOH, that very anonymity allowed very knowledgeable people on the Board to offer their specialized information to the group. In several instances, I am sure their employers would not have allowed them that freedom had their jobs and names been used.

I do want to thank the mods for their service. In particular, I'd like to single out Cavlaw and Jason Evans. A special word, too, for JBDuke, who though we disagreed on one specific issue, hung in there with his perceived integrity on the point. He worked as hard as anybody to keep us in line..


I agree. At its most uncivil the PPB was still far mre civil than most of what you see on political TV or talk radio, from either side of the aisle.

Mudge
09-27-2009, 12:12 PM
One gets the impression, upon clicking on PPB, that it still exists, but one must log in to see it-- then upon logging in, access is denied (i.e.- not sufficient permissions to see the page). Has the PPB simply reverted to a private club, by invitation only (a` la Skull & Bones at Yale), within the larger DBR site?

allenmurray
09-27-2009, 12:17 PM
One gets the impression, upon clicking on PPB, that it still exists, but one must log in to see it-- then upon logging in, access is denied (i.e.- not sufficient permissions to see the page). Has the PPB simply reverted to a private club, by invitation only (a` la Skull & Bones at Yale), within the larger DBR site?

Conspiracy theory? :p

I am certain the answer is no - they simply haven't done the programmatic changes yet to eliminate it.

JBDuke
09-27-2009, 12:27 PM
One gets the impression, upon clicking on PPB, that it still exists, but one must log in to see it-- then upon logging in, access is denied (i.e.- not sufficient permissions to see the page). Has the PPB simply reverted to a private club, by invitation only (a` la Skull & Bones at Yale), within the larger DBR site?


Conspiracy theory? :p

I am certain the answer is no - they simply haven't done the programmatic changes yet to eliminate it.

Allen has it right. Taking down the PPB was a simple act of manipulating the bulletin board code - and we have a couple of "supermods" that can do this sort of thing. Taking down the DBR link to the PPB requires a code mode to DBR's site. We've put in the request, but it hasn't been acted on yet.

BD80
09-27-2009, 02:25 PM
Could the PPB be locked rather than closed? It would make a useful archive.

There is large amount of information that I consider valuable. There were many opinions well stated and well supported. I would appreciate the chance to search and review past discussions.

I particularly enjoyed the board as much for the passion as the intelligence displayed. Believe it or not, within certain social circles I am considered a liberal-leaning thinker (OK maybe more of a talker than a thinker), and I always found the PPB a great place to vet issues and to get the other side of the story.

YourLandlord
09-27-2009, 02:42 PM
Could the PPB be locked rather than closed? It would make a useful archive.

There is large amount of information that I consider valuable. There were many opinions well stated and well supported. I would appreciate the chance to search and review past discussions.

I particularly enjoyed the board as much for the passion as the intelligence displayed. Believe it or not, within certain social circles I am considered a liberal-leaning thinker (OK maybe more of a talker than a thinker), and I always found the PPB a great place to vet issues and to get the other side of the story.

Seconded.

throatybeard
09-27-2009, 07:48 PM
Could the PPB be locked rather than closed? It would make a useful archive.

There's been some talk about that. The ultimate decision on that rests with the site owners. At this time, it hasn't departed into the ether. Anyway, Google Cache probably preserves most of it anyway.

OldPhiKap
09-27-2009, 08:17 PM
I agree. At its most uncivil the PPB was still far mre civil than most of what you see on political TV or talk radio, from either side of the aisle.

Very true.

I enjoyed the PPB and I simply ignored those who seemed to go over the edge. I would hope that, instead of deleting the PPB, they simply put it on a break for a few months and then see if it can self-police better.

hurleyfor3
09-27-2009, 11:00 PM
People! Get over it! It's not like we lost in the Sweet 16 as a 1-seed or something.

snowdenscold
09-27-2009, 11:03 PM
I support most everything said in this thread so far. Even at its "worst", I think the PPB is so much better than 99.9% of other sites out there that it's pretty sad to see it go. I don't post much on many threads since I don't feel I have any background or insight to contribute, but I certainly pick up a lot from reading most of them. Sure, a couple things get pretty touchy, but I thought that's part of what the 3rd board was for...

SoCalDukeFan
09-28-2009, 11:19 AM
it is up to the site owners.

The site's name is Duke Basketball Report. Fine with me if they limit the site to "Duke Basketball" which is really the most important topic in the world anyway.

SoCal

The Gordog
09-29-2009, 09:49 AM
Could the PPB be locked rather than closed? It would make a useful archive.

There is large amount of information that I consider valuable. There were many opinions well stated and well supported. I would appreciate the chance to search and review past discussions.

I particularly enjoyed the board as much for the passion as the intelligence displayed. Believe it or not, within certain social circles I am considered a liberal-leaning thinker (OK maybe more of a talker than a thinker), and I always found the PPB a great place to vet issues and to get the other side of the story.

Agree 100%. I never thought I would convince, say, Gary of my point of view. However, reading his perspective was educational to me. I learned a lot from people on the various threads on investing, the banking crisis, etc.

Personally, I will be visiting this site a lot less often.

Indoor66
09-29-2009, 11:53 AM
Agree 100%. I never thought I would convince, say, Gary of my point of view. However, reading his perspective was educational to me. I learned a lot from people on the various threads on investing, the banking crisis, etc.

Personally, I will be visiting this site a lot less often.

It appears to me that traffic is down. There seem to be fewer posts on the Off Topic board.

_Gary
09-29-2009, 02:32 PM
Agree 100%. I never thought I would convince, say, Gary of my point of view. However, reading his perspective was educational to me. I learned a lot from people on the various threads on investing, the banking crisis, etc.

Personally, I will be visiting this site a lot less often.

Gordog, I don't know for sure if I'm the "Gary" you are referencing or not, but I want to say I agree with you and the others that have expressed disappointment at the closure of the PPB. Sure, many of us are pretty firmly rooted in our worldview, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Nor is a bad thing for us to share those often drastically different worldviews as long as it is done civily. At least that's my opinion. I personally believe Americans, and people in general everywhere, are getting so used to the PC mindset that we are constantly worried about sharing different worldviews for sake of hurting someone's feelings or offending people. But if we aren't able to share those different worldviews it seems to me we are even more likely to stop learning and stop growing.

Just my two cents. Take care, everyone.

Gary

bluebear
09-29-2009, 02:34 PM
While I definitely learned a lot on the PPB, I have noticed a sharp increase in my productivity and a drop in my stress level since it was closed ;)

77devil
09-30-2009, 12:46 PM
I rarely accessed the Main Page without swinging by the PBB, and during the off season it was an even more valuable part of DBR in my opinion. Sharing information, learning and expressing opinions on important and often controversial subjects was more meaningful to me within an online community that "knew" each other and had a common bond in Duke U and Duke basketball.

It's a shame but so be it. R.I.P.

Jarhead
10-05-2009, 10:25 PM
Agree 100%. I never thought I would convince, say, Gary of my point of view. However, reading his perspective was educational to me. I learned a lot from people on the various threads on investing, the banking crisis, etc.

Personally, I will be visiting this site a lot less often.

For about the last month I have been away from home not paying attention to the DBR forums. What a shock to return home and learn that the PPB is gone. Like the Gordog, I will not be visiting as often. Sure, there was lively discussion, sometimes contentious, but always a non-contact sport. I'll miss it, and I won't be as well informed on the issues of the day anymore. I've looked at other forums, but none of them were as intellectual, as collegial, as balanced.

YourLandlord
10-05-2009, 10:30 PM
I'll miss it, and I won't be as well informed on the issues of the day anymore. I've looked at other forums, but none of them were as intellectual, as collegial, as balanced.

Seconded.

killerleft
10-06-2009, 06:39 PM
Thirded, though I mostly was a voyeur.

Lord Ash
10-06-2009, 07:14 PM
Can I ask... is there any chance that the decision to remove the PPB might be reconsidered?

As many people have already expressed, the PPB was almost unique on the web and was really valued by the DBR community as a place to share information and thoughts in a relatively safe environment. Much like the way that you can shoot the breeze about politics down at the local pub with your buddies, on the PPB there might have been big disagreements about important issues, but it never ended our friendship (or, in this case, our love of all things Duke.)

Duke was, for me, a place of learning. Here on DBR, the website I feel most personifies the best of Duke, the PPB board was more a place of learning than Off-Topic or, yes, even the Elizabeth King board... and I say that as a former resident of Tent #1 (yep, during the Pete Gaudet year... that is dedication!) I think all of the posters have shown that they agree with this, and will miss the board not because they miss a place to argue, but because they will miss having a place stocked full of smart people from all avenues of life that they could learn from, even if they disagree.

Is there any chance the decision could be reconsidered?

Thanks!

allenmurray
10-06-2009, 10:46 PM
Can I ask... is there any chance that the decision to remove the PPB might be reconsidered?

It is more likely that I will grow to be 7'3" tall and start at center for Duke in the fall of this year than it is that the decision will be reversed. We all need to find another playground. Send me a PM if you find one first - I'll do the same for you and others.

YourLandlord
10-07-2009, 11:13 AM
It is more likely that I will grow to be 7'3" tall and start at center for Duke in the fall of this year than it is that the decision will be reversed. We all need to find another playground. Send me a PM if you find one first - I'll do the same for you and others.

So, www.DBRPPB.com isn't taken, according to godaddy.com

Anyone know how easy it is to get some simple hosting and throw up a message board? Can't be that expensive, right?

TNTDevil
10-07-2009, 01:26 PM
No it's not that expensive. In fact, I may be eligible for a "free" domain from the company that does my businesses web-hosting. I'll check and get back to ya'.

Jarhead
10-07-2009, 02:06 PM
So, www.DBRPPB.com isn't taken, according to godaddy.com

Anyone know how easy it is to get some simple hosting and throw up a message board? Can't be that expensive, right?


No it's not that expensive. In fact, I may be eligible for a "free" domain from the company that does my businesses web-hosting. I'll check and get back to ya'.

Nice call, you guys. I'd suggest www.XDBRPPB.com though. It isn't taken either. And would J and B be amenable to moving the active threads and archive over to this new site? Another question -- who would run it? That would be a time demanding effort. I don't know if the folks who posted on the DBR version would migrate over. It wouldn't be the same, at all, if they don't.

For the last few days, I have spent only a little bit of time on the DBR. The news headline stories and other creative efforts still have some attraction, but the remaining forums only invite lurking for now. I'm not to interested in all of the speculative recruiting threads and amateur game analysis. There's enough of that coming from the mainstream media, and all of those blogs that fog up the works.

JBDuke
10-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Folks, if you choose to create a new website, please leave the "DBR" out of it. It's trademarked. Why not something like "PPBRefugeees.com" or some such thing.

RelativeWays
10-07-2009, 07:53 PM
I only visited PPB a few times but it was actually interesting to read differing views from people who had actually vested the time and energy to research their viewpoints to back them up. I fostered the somewhat elitist view that Duke alum and Duke fans in general who post on this board would be more than qualified and capable on carrying on actual debates on these topics compared to the infantile and naive morons at other places, I was right. I don't agree with this move. I don't know what was so contentious on PPB that the only viable solution was getting rid of it, but its a shame nonetheless.

Jarhead
10-08-2009, 04:40 PM
I only visited PPB a few times but it was actually interesting to read differing views from people who had actually vested the time and energy to research their viewpoints to back them up. I fostered the somewhat elitist view that Duke alum and Duke fans in general who post on this board would be more than qualified and capable on carrying on actual debates on these topics compared to the infantile and naive morons at other places, I was right. I don't agree with this move. I don't know what was so contentious on PPB that the only viable solution was getting rid of it, but its a shame nonetheless.

Yes , it is a shame. I've been out of the country for most of the last month, and I have no real idea of the progress, or lack thereof, on health care reform. The PPB was the quickest, best source for that kind of information including all of the angles. Browsing the internet mostly gets wire service repeats of the same story plus a ton of un-vetted blogs and gun-for-hire op-eds. Yeah, it's a real shame.

rthomas
10-08-2009, 06:49 PM
Folks, if you choose to create a new website, please leave the "DBR" out of it. It's trademarked. Why not something like "PPBRefugeees.com" or some such thing.

Going to court over three "so called trademarked" letters in the middle of www.xdbrppb.com is laughable. I would think Duke is trademarked too, Mr. JBDuke. But who would take that to court? lol.

-jk
10-08-2009, 07:33 PM
Obviously, DBR isn't trademarked. We'd ask folks to kindly refrain from using it, though. And, yes, Duke is trademarked in this context; DBR pays a licensing fee to use the name.

-jk

JBDuke
10-08-2009, 11:25 PM
Going to court over three "so called trademarked" letters in the middle of www.xdbrppb.com is laughable. I would think Duke is trademarked too, Mr. JBDuke. But who would take that to court? lol.


Obviously, DBR isn't trademarked. We'd ask folks to kindly refrain from using it, though. And, yes, Duke is trademarked in this context; DBR pays a licensing fee to use the name.

-jk

My mistake. I knew we'd faced this issue in the past and asked others to refrain from using DBR in naming new sites.

JasonEvans
10-08-2009, 11:33 PM
Going to court over three "so called trademarked" letters in the middle of www.xdbrppb.com is laughable. I would think Duke is trademarked too, Mr. JBDuke. But who would take that to court? lol.

Completely apart from the legal issue, are you implying that if the owners of this site asked you to not use their name in an effort to promote your own site that you would not bow to their wishes?

Really?

--Jason

YourLandlord
10-08-2009, 11:38 PM
when discussing PPB-type issues, DBR should = Dude! Be real!

rthomas
10-09-2009, 07:48 AM
Completely apart from the legal issue, are you implying that if the owners of this site asked you to not use their name in an effort to promote your own site that you would not bow to their wishes?

Really?

--Jason

No, of course not. Nor do I want to. I'm just saying bringing this up as a trademark issue was ridiculous.

BD80
10-09-2009, 10:32 AM
Going to court over three "so called trademarked" letters in the middle of www.xdbrppb.com is laughable. I would think Duke is trademarked too, Mr. JBDuke. But who would take that to court? lol.

Frankly, trademark law is soft enough that you can take either side and win the case. As a loyal DBR reader, I'll take the DBR case! If there is any advertising on the site and there is an imputed intent to lure DBR readers to the new site by using the letters "DBR," the finish line is in sight. Why use "DBR" unless there is an intent to benefit from the fame of the mark nurtured by the owners of this site?

Now, if the mark were something like "Inside Carolina," I would be in favor of freedom of expression and opposed to the protection of scandalous expressions. However, I can't imagine any intellectual intercourse under that name that could justify a fair use.

hurleyfor3
10-09-2009, 10:50 AM
Now, if the mark were something like "Inside Carolina," I would be in favor of freedom of expression and opposed to the protection of scandalous expressions. However, I can't imagine any intellectual intercourse under that name that could justify a fair use.

And it's not as if there's any sort of precedent for that there, either.

Lord Ash
10-09-2009, 11:42 PM
Okay, here:

http://ntwgg.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=ppbboard

Running it off of an almost defunct game clan forum I moderate.

Password is: battier

Anyone want to come over and say hi? Do we really believe that having this place for us all to talk and discuss politics and learn from each other is worth it?

devil84
10-10-2009, 11:29 AM
There's a new place to discuss PPB material. See this thread:
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17322

No further need for this thread to remain open.