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OZZIE4DUKE
04-23-2007, 10:56 PM
Yawn. What a disappointment in both shows. And I was so looking forward to Heroes tonight.

pacificrounder
04-24-2007, 01:15 AM
**SPOILER ALERT** (Sorry, don't know how to hide text.)

Terrible Heroes. Really just dreadful. I think that the whole grieving for Peter when all they really had to do would pull the glass out of his head and he would come instantly back to life ordeal was the worst moment on the show thus far. Worst of all, it dragged out for 5+ minutes when we could have seen 5 more minutes of Hiro and Ando in the future. I thought the end was nice, but weak. There should have been some metaphysical quasi-universal effect to the two Hiros meeting each other.

Did any one catch the symbolism of Isaac pinned down on the floor? At first I thought Jesus, but then on second look it looks like Da Vinci's Vitruvian Man, so I'm not sure what to make of that.

Udaman
04-24-2007, 09:00 AM
Heroes has all this time off...and this is what they come back with? Blatantly stealing from other movies (the nuke is going to create good, just like destroying Gotham will be good ala Batman Begins.....the shapeshifter, who is basically doing X-Men), and having Linderman and the grandmother as first generation Heroes? So utterly disappointing...which is a real shame.

Also, there are a couple of things that I'm confused about:

1) Where is Peter's scar? The one that future Hiro pointed out way back in one of the first episodes?

2) Since he doesn't have it now...then he can't be the one to create the nuke. If "Save the Chearleader, Save the World," holds out, then Hiro went back to tell Peter that the Chearleader was the one to save...and Peter must have had a scar in the future...so he would not have been the one killed in the nuke blast.

3) I thought Isaac died just before the nuke went off (per Hiro's first encounter with him)....this death was 5 days before or so. Odd.

The show can still turn itself around, and Syler is great. But last night was pretty bad.

Udaman
04-24-2007, 09:31 AM
Average grade on Television Without Pity is an A, and most are saying it was great.

Certainly had good action...I just saw it as a ripoff of a lot of other movies...with nothing really resolved.

JasonEvans
04-24-2007, 12:15 PM
I can't believe how bad Heroes stucked. The acting was beyond awful. When big brother Petrelli was crying over Peter's body, it was just horrid. I actually backed it up on TIVO and said to the wife, "lets watch this again, just so we can see why Heroes is not even in the same ballpark as Lost."

Continuity and story errors are really getting common now. I am starting to think that they may be making things up as they go along -- at least a little bit -- and that is a really bad sign.

Are we ever going to see what Linderman did to convince Nicki/Jessica to let him use Micha? I doubt it.

The escape from the paper factory holding cells was just horrid and devoid of any drama. My wife wants to know why Parkman was only hearing HRG's thoughts and not the thoughts of everyone around. And how, exactly, were they keeping Nuclear Ted from blowing up the entire building? Man, was security at that place ever lame, or what? Grab one rusty pipe and you can bust 3 people out. Yeah, that's realistic. I'll sauy this, it was a good thing HRG knew exactly how Ted's powers worked-- even more than Ted did. :rolleyes: Sheesh!!!

Is there any character more annoying than Mamma Patrelli? Are we supposed to be shocked when she unveils her own power or do we already officially know she has a power?

I am very bothered by the notion of there being Heroes from a long time ago -- like the invisible guy, and Linderman, and Mamma Petrelli and probably many others (Hiro's dad/Sulu?). At the beginning of the show they kept on talking about an awakening and new abilities being discovered and the such. It was clearly implied that this was some new phenomenon happening. Now it turns out it has been around for decades. This also cheapens the importance and impact of all the work by father and son Suresh.

I could go on and on-- that weas a truly dreadful episode, far worse than the worst episode of Lost. At this point, the comparisons of the two shows has become a joke.

-Jason "I am still in a 24-free zone at my house... but I now have 2 episodes backed up on TIVO... just in case I decide to give it a new chance" Evans

mkirsh
04-24-2007, 12:27 PM
Contrary to others on this board, I enjoyed the episode overall. My main criticims would be that 1) all of the big reveals were basically given away by the previews which took a lot of wind out of the show, and 2) they seemed to cram a lot of things into this episode and as a result rushed through it. For example, the Lindeman/Nathan scene was just too blunt, and I would have loved to see more of Peter vs Sylar or Future Hiro. As a trade off I think the Nikki/Lindeman stuff could have been cut from this episode. Probably a direct result of Lost criticisms, but I think they went too far the other direction.

Imo, the big issue for the show will be how it treats time travel. In prior episodes they hinted at Hiro not being able to change past events, and every Isaac painting has come true, so they seem to indicate that you can't change past or future events. But Future Hiro looked like he was mapping out different timelines and strings, so they might go the other direction into infinite dimensions. It will be interesting to see how this unfolds, and if they aren't careful with the theory here, the time travel could make the plot irrelevant.

@Udaman - I don't know how Peter will ever get a scar if he can heal. Only way would be if he somehow loses Claire's powers. Also, on the time of Isaac's death, Hiro finds him dead on the floor just before the bomb goes off, but he could have been dead for a while (if I remember correctly he looked "frozen" as well). With Simone dead and Peter and Hiro worrying about the bomb, I doubt anyone would have even been looking for Isaac so I would think it possible for him to have been killed a few days before being found.

riverside6
04-24-2007, 12:33 PM
Are we ever going to see what Linderman did to convince Nicki/Jessica to let him use Micha? I doubt it.
Evans

Keep in mind Nickessica didn't allow Linderman to take Micah, it was the "impersonator" that pretended to be Micah's mother.

I did like the impersonator's line that said she could show HRG things that would make him scratch his eyes out.

Exiled_Devil
04-24-2007, 12:42 PM
Jason - a few reactions

Lindeman never convinced Niki/Jessica to give over Micah - they used the Mystique girl to impersonate her.

I find myself forgiving a lot on this show, and I don't know why. I like it a lot, but it is not the kind of show where I don't let my wife speak - those shows are BSG and The Office. Interestingly, I don't mind during Lost, because I am sure I will need to tivo back to stuff after reading bboards on Thursday.

I am still onboard, and interested in seeing the days of future past episode. I think that the season still has a lot of life, and I am interested in seeing how the Watchmen storyline plays out.

Interestingly, the main writer for the show is not a comics fan, so much of the references I and others have made to comic books are lost on him. I think that he has comic writers on his staff to keep him in line, but his lack of knowledge of the genre helps make Heroes approachable and also supplies some of the lamer moments - A wired article highlights some of the interesting interplay of the writers, exampled by the term 'schmuckbait', where practiced viewers will know that a hero is not in danger at the 'cliffhanger' moment (see: P. Petrelli with a glass shard in the back of his head) but the rubes get all excited. I think the glimmer of real comic myth and storytelling is what keeps me around.

All-time stupidest moment of the episode, Peter turning his back on Sylar so that the glass could pierce his skull. WTF? Invisibility doesn't permit you to see behind you, does it? IANASH, but I generally believe that one should face
an opponent when fighting them.

Second place - Mo-tard not popping two bullets into Sylar's brain before dragging Peter away. Again, WTF?

I was annoyed with the Petrelli family not knowing how to help Peter. Then I realized that only Claire knew about the 'not dying' with nothing bothering the brain.

Exiled

Highlander
04-24-2007, 12:58 PM
On a positive note, I thought the fight scene between Sylar and Petrelli was pretty cool. I liked the line of "I can't wait to try that one out." Although, if Sylar has super hearing, why didn't he hear Suresh coming with the blackboard until it was too late. Hiro vs. Hiro in the end was a decent cliffhanger.

As for the negatives...

I heard mama Petrelli say she had a power, but it wasn't identified what it was.

Isaac dying was kind of lame. If you can predict the future, why on earth would you wait around for your killer to show up? Then again, painting the future is kind of a lame talent. Could you imagine Isaac hanging around the Justice League? "Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman - You guys go out and save the world, I'll stay here with the Wonder Twins and paint some stuff..."

Also, what exactly is the point of Mohinder now? Or of Claire for that matter?

After over a month off and a great cliffhanger, they could have done a lot better. Plus they only have 4 more episodes? That bites. Way too much to leave undone before next year.

JDSBlueDevl
04-24-2007, 01:44 PM
I can't believe how bad Heroes stucked. The acting was beyond awful. When big brother Petrelli was crying over Peter's body, it was just horrid. I actually backed it up on TIVO and said to the wife, "lets watch this again, just so we can see why Heroes is not even in the same ballpark as Lost."

Obviously you didn't figure out that it was crocodile tears from Nathan, who had already figured out how everything would happen from Linderman.


Continuity and story errors are really getting common now. I am starting to think that they may be making things up as they go along -- at least a little bit -- and that is a really bad sign.

Are we ever going to see what Linderman did to convince Nicki/Jessica to let him use Micha? I doubt it.

OK, gotta correct you on a few things. Niki/Jessica didn't convince Micah to help Linderman, Candice as Niki/Jessica did.


The escape from the paper factory holding cells was just horrid and devoid of any drama. My wife wants to know why Parkman was only hearing HRG's thoughts and not the thoughts of everyone around. And how, exactly, were they keeping Nuclear Ted from blowing up the entire building?

Three letters: EMP.


Man, was security at that place ever lame, or what? Grab one rusty pipe and you can bust 3 people out. Yeah, that's realistic. I'll sauy this, it was a good thing HRG knew exactly how Ted's powers worked-- even more than Ted did. :rolleyes: Sheesh!!!

Is there any character more annoying than Mamma Patrelli? Are we supposed to be shocked when she unveils her own power or do we already officially know she has a power?

I am very bothered by the notion of there being Heroes from a long time ago -- like the invisible guy, and Linderman, and Mamma Petrelli and probably many others (Hiro's dad/Sulu?).

Obviously you forgot about Takeru Kensei, from the painting at the Met.


At the beginning of the show they kept on talking about an awakening and new abilities being discovered and the such. It was clearly implied that this was some new phenomenon happening. Now it turns out it has been around for decades. This also cheapens the importance and impact of all the work by father and son Suresh.

Not necessarily. After all, Mohinder kept repeating how the HGP was critical to his research, so who knows how the phenomena could have been seen in the past? Probably as witchcraft and thus the "evolved" were selected out by being burned at the stake?

Lastly, I don't think Nathan or Mamma Petrelli knew about Peter's ability to regenerate, but only Claire did b/c of how Peter healed from his first fight with Sylar. Wouldn't that make the whole scene plausible?

PS: "Save the cheerleader, save the world" is explained in the online comic. It was originally Sylar who was the bomb, having acquired abilities from Claire (who was killed in Homecoming rather than saved by Peter) and Ted Sprague. How Peter becomes the bomb is going to be an interesting story.

Mal
04-24-2007, 01:49 PM
Pretty much agree on the negative reactions, especially to the idea that no one would bother to pull an 8-inch shard of glass out of their dead brother's/son's head, and even more especially to the idea that someone who had just been staked to the ceiling and watched his tormentor try to rip the brains out of someone else's skull would just leave Sylar lying there unconscious, whether they thought Peter was dead or not. There's a loaded gun in the room. Yeesh. They couldn't write a believable way for that confrontation to end with all three characters living? It's patently ridiculous that Sylar lived after all that. The mind boggles at the writing. The fight itself was also incredibly lame. Peter went invisible and then stood there for 30 seconds doing nothing while looking the other way. Good thinking! What Sylar did with the glass was pretty cool, I guess, but he could have just concentrated on hearing Peter (by the way, his eardrums would probably have popped when Mohinder tried to shoot him in the last episode). Why Peter couldn't have thought of a way to avoid the glass is beyond me. Maybe while Sylar's standing there concentrating on the glass, you could telekinese something over there to hit him in the head? By the way, you can fly, too. Or did you not remember that?

I hated that Linderman has the cliche evil guy "sacrifice ten million people to save the rest from some threat" attitude. You're supposed to make us think "hmmm, maybe that's a reasonable sacrifice in the abstract, given the imminent dangers on display, but, no, these are human beings and I can't believe I'm even thinking of condoning that sort of thing, even if it achieved its objective. It's immoral." Instead all we're left with is "this guy's obviously crazy and evil - even if he thinks he's doing the right thing, there's no moral ambiguity underlying it, just delusion." What's the need for blowing up NYC, again?

I echo the criticism of the emerging theme of an older generation of heroes, now seen in full flower. Why did the first half a dozen episodes focus on an eclipse and how this was all new? There was plenty of potential for rivalries and emerging factions and some people using their powers for the wrong ends without having to have Linderman and Mrs. Petrelli and Hiro's dad running things from the shadows. I wish Primatech Paper had been something other than Linderman's evil doing.

By the way, far too many people have supernatural powers on this show. At this point, Bennett and Ando appear to be the only regulars who don't have powers, and I wouldn't put it by the writers to change that, too.

There was action last night, but not worth 6 weeks of waiting. I guess the reveal is always a let down after the build up and all the hypothesizing about what's really going on on a show like this.

Questions:

Did Isaac send out a bunch of paintings to let others know where Sylar would be, or what was he talking about before he died?

I presume Micah is supposed to make the ID tagging machine in NYC work when Bennett and co. dismantle it, or am I missing something?

Whatever happened to Hanna, the woman who was with Ted and Parkman and could read e-mails and the like?

JDSBlueDevl
04-24-2007, 02:18 PM
You're missing something. Micah is probably going to make the impenetrable "logic bomb" for the election that Hana was able to dismantle when Linderman's minions were trying earlier (if you've been reading http://www.samantha48616e61.com/). And one theory discussed at the boards at TelevisionWithoutPity.com says that the tracking device isn't a thing, but rather a person: Charles Deveaux, who is always near death, but not dead.

One more thing to think about: is Nathan another Sen. Kelly and Linderman another Gen. Stryker? Spoilers from TV Guide and NBC seem to be leaning that way.

EDIT: Link fixed.

Mal
04-24-2007, 03:27 PM
I must admit, I have no idea what JDSBlueDevl just said. What exactly am I missing? What's a logic bomb? When did Hana dismantle one? She's only been in one episode, right? Did she say something about this to Ted and/or Parkman, maybe at the graveyard? Your explanation might clear up why Linderman told Nessica that he had a plan that had recently unraveled and he needed Micah to help, but I'll be danged if I remember her doing something like that. Regardless, it's awfully shady writing if she dropped some 411 about taking something apart into a conversation 4 episodes ago and now it's impacting Micah and we haven't seen her since. Why wasn't she at Bennett's house? What is she doing?

Who on earth are Gen. Stryker and Sen. Kelly? When did we meet them?

If I've been reading? There's reading assigned to a television show? I'm afraid the link you attached was dead, unfortunately.

The theory you mention on the tracking would explain why everyone spends so much time atop the Deveaux Building, I guess.

JDSBlueDevl
04-24-2007, 04:09 PM
I must admit, I have no idea what JDSBlueDevl just said. What exactly am I missing?

Evidently a lot.
The online novels at http://www.nbc.com/Heroes (read the online novels first. If you've read them all up to the one corresponding to Parasite, read the next six, which detail an interesting relationship between Linderman and Pa Petrelli)
http://www.samantha48616e61.com/ (look at the entries on this "blog" for the past month to see what I mean about "logic bomb". Oh, and the link above contained an extra parenthesis, so this should work)
http://www.primatechpaper.com/
http://www.9thwonders.com/
http://www.activatingevolution.org/

Also, Heroes360 online during the airing of Heroes explains a bit, such as how DL figured out that Niki was really Jessica (it was a scene that was cut out of Parasite).


What's a logic bomb? When did Hana dismantle one? She's only been in one episode, right?

Uh, yes and no. Physically in one episode, but she was in the Heroes360 feed for "Company Man" and is an active character in the online comics and her blog. And a "logic bomb" is a program written to rig an election.


Who on earth are Gen. Stryker and Sen. Kelly? When did we meet them?

We don't. They're characters from the X-Men universe that I said might have parallels to the Heroes universe (namely, in the forms of Linderman and Nathan, respectively).

Clipsfan
04-24-2007, 05:22 PM
I sort of stopped paying attention to the episode, or at least stopped trying to think about it, after Peter's "death". As a couple people said (Exiled first) I couldn't get over leaving Silar unconscious on the ground. I'd have killed him then and there. That wasn't my only problem with that scene, which is what led to my not really following it anymore. Second, Mohinder was suddenly alright, although he'd been bleeding profusely and had been pinned to the ceiling. I couldn't tell whether he was physically pinned (knives etc, such as some of the earlier victims of Sylar) or if it was just TK, although he dropped to the ground as if it was just TK. Third, what kind of cab lets you bring your dead buddy along with you? I don't live in NYC, but I can't imagine that they'll let you do that. Especially not if you also look like you've been tortured (Which you have). I mean, how exactly did Mohinder talk the cabby into doing that in broad daylight? It's strange that that is the part which was too much for me, but it was. I could handle the stupidity of not creating your own force shield when you see Silar raising the glass slowly. I can (almost) handle not killing Silar when you have the chance. I can handle Mohinder's amazing powers of recovery (I watch 24, after all). I can't handle a cabby willing to transport bloody dead people.

Duvall
04-24-2007, 05:55 PM
Third, what kind of cab lets you bring your dead buddy along with you? I don't live in NYC, but I can't imagine that they'll let you do that. Especially not if you also look like you've been tortured (Which you have). I mean, how exactly did Mohinder talk the cabby into doing that in broad daylight? It's strange that that is the part which was too much for me, but it was. I could handle the stupidity of not creating your own force shield when you see Silar raising the glass slowly. I can (almost) handle not killing Silar when you have the chance. I can handle Mohinder's amazing powers of recovery (I watch 24, after all). I can't handle a cabby willing to transport bloody dead people.

It was Mohinder's cab.

Clipsfan
04-24-2007, 06:43 PM
It was Mohinder's cab.

Duh. At least that makes me less irritated with the episode. I forgot that Mohinder took over driving his dad's cab. I guess that's what multiple hiati (hiatuses?) combined with completely forgetable characters does to me.

Exiled_Devil
04-24-2007, 08:05 PM
PS: "Save the cheerleader, save the world" is explained in the online comic. It was originally Sylar who was the bomb, having acquired abilities from Claire (who was killed in Homecoming rather than saved by Peter) and Ted Sprague. How Peter becomes the bomb is going to be an interesting story.

Which chapter said this? I don't recall anything like that happening - as far as I have seen, we still don't have an explanation of save the cheerleader Right...just read the most recent chapter. There you go

And I don't buy that Nathan was faking the tears - he knows a heck of a lot less than we as the audience, and nothing has shown that he believes the 'paint the future' stuff. After all, Peter didn't die in Texas like that painting showed.

Finally, what makes you think that Takeru Kensai is directly related to, or was, a Hero? Lindeman has a picture, Hiro was obsessed with him and his sword has the ubiquitous symbol, but we have no conclusive evidence of him having powers. I would call it a theory, highly plausible, but not a sure thing that he was a hero

Exiled

devildm
04-24-2007, 08:58 PM
Online at nbc.com there are novels that go with each episode. Each one gives a little more information about what's going on. For instance, the most recent one is about Hiro in the future and notes that Sylar was the orginial "human bomb" and that the reason Peter had the scar was that he had never met Claire and absorbed her power, that is, until the future Hiro began the whole "Save the Cheerleader, Save the World" saga. Here is a link to the online novels. They also go into more detail about Hanna (Wireless) and her role in the background.

http://www.nbc.com/Heroes/novels/

JDSBlueDevl
04-24-2007, 09:06 PM
Which chapter said this? I don't recall anything like that happening - as far as I have seen, we still don't have an explanation of save the cheerleader Right...just read the most recent chapter. There you go

And I don't buy that Nathan was faking the tears - he knows a heck of a lot less than we as the audience, and nothing has shown that he believes the 'paint the future' stuff. After all, Peter didn't die in Texas like that painting showed.

Finally, what makes you think that Takeru Kensai is directly related to, or was, a Hero? Lindeman has a picture, Hiro was obsessed with him and his sword has the ubiquitous symbol, but we have no conclusive evidence of him having powers. I would call it a theory, highly plausible, but not a sure thing that he was a hero

Exiled

Did you read Chapter 30? Read it again. It's on the third page of drawings, with Future Hiro saying, "Sylar's lifeline was crucial, of course. He was the bomb. I stabbed him before he exploded, but he regenerated. He was able to do this because he killed Claire Bennet, the cheerleader."

Highlander
04-24-2007, 09:57 PM
One of the posters [Matt] added this explanation of why Peter doesn't have a scar.

"Peter had a scar in Hiro's original future because Sylar killed Claire in the original timeline. When Hiro returned and told Peter to save Claire he changed that future. Peter gains Claire's healing ability and Sylar doesn't, so in the new future he wouldn't have a scar."

JasonEvans
04-24-2007, 10:01 PM
I have read some of the online comics, and they are cool, but it seems like huge plot holes are being covered up by "its in the comic." To me that is lousy make-it-up-as-you-go-along storytelling.

-Jason

JDSBlueDevl
04-24-2007, 10:56 PM
I have read some of the online compics, and they are cool, but it seems like huge plot holes are being covered up by "its in the comic." To me that is lousy make-it-up-as-you-go-along storytelling.

-Jason

True, but it could also be a preview to what will be included in the next episode. Future Hiro might refer to it next week.

TheGodfather
04-24-2007, 11:04 PM
they used the Mystique girl to impersonate her.

Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.

JasonEvans
04-25-2007, 07:53 AM
Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.

It does not matter which other well-known superhero she is copied from, the fact that, with the exception of Suresh and a couple people who work for "the company", everyone on the show has some kind of power really cheapens things. It was a huge mistake having this many heroes. They felt "special" and surprising early on. Now, they are commonplace and the show has lost a lot of its special feeling as a result.

-Jason "the writing lately has just been dreadful" Evans

Exiled_Devil
04-25-2007, 09:47 AM
Mystique is a shapeshifter in the X-men universe. No one on Heroes has displayed any shapeshifting abilities. Claire has regenerative abilities. Candice is an illusionist more like the Scarlet Witch in the X-men universe.

Sure thing, Steve-Dave. Mystique is the reference point for people who aren't fan-boys. I am a borderline one, but I wanted to use a reference that someone without any comic reference point.

Incidentally, Scarlett Witch is not an illusionist. She changes reality. That's how they had the big multi-comic arc with mutant utopia and then reduced the number of mutants to 198. And we don't know if Candace is an illusionist or shape-shifter. All we have seen is her looking like different people, which is a decent approximation of Mystique.

Question for Jason - I see the bad writing, the mediocre acting, and yet, I have no issue. I keep happily watching. Is this what season 3 of 24 was like? Am I on the 'credulity path' that will have me skipping the episodes like you are with 24?

OZZIE4DUKE
04-25-2007, 09:51 AM
everyone on the show has some kind of power really cheapens things. It was a huge mistake having this many heroes. They felt "special" and surprising early on. Now, they are commonplace and the show has lost a lot of its special feeling as a result.

There are only a lot of them because the show is about them. Most of the other 6.59 billion ( http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html ) people on the earth don't have super powers.

Mal
04-25-2007, 10:18 AM
Ugh. I wasn't aware of all of this other source material out there, I guess. But you know what? I shouldn't have to read a bunch of comic books to understand what's going on on a television show. I'm totally with Jason Evans on this one (and also on the disappointment with too many people with powers) - if it's not a symptom of weak writing that they have to fill in blanks by referring us to some other source of information beyond what's put on the screen, it's a cheesy attempt to pull us toward more advertising by making this a "multimedia phenomenon." Maybe that's a model for future television, what with the intrusion of DVRs into traditional advertising revenue, but personally I'm no comic guy, I know nothing about the X-Men, and I have zero interest in reading up about characters' backgrounds elsewhere. If you can't tell the whole story for me on the screen in the 42 minutes/week I'm going to give you, then what's the point? It's annoying to me, and detracts from the quality of the show itself (which is a total lowbrow guilty pleasure to start with, so you'd better at least have the onscreen universe sensical and complete).

Exiled, I think you're on that credulity path, and I think I am, too. I was willing to overlook a lot on this show just because the ideas behind it were pretty cool. But as the concepts and themes have been either awkwardly fleshed out, or not fleshed out and expanded upon at all over the course of the season, my patience with the crummy acting, bad dialogue writing and plot contrivances is waning quickly. I'll watch the remaining episodes, but my enthusiasm is diminished. There's just too much going on to even follow now.

As usual, I'm left thinking "This could be soooo much better if it were on HBO."

JasonEvans
04-25-2007, 10:21 AM
There are only a lot of them because the show is about them. Most of the other 6.59 billion ( http://www.census.gov/ipc/www/popclockworld.html ) people on the earth don't have super powers.

Ok, but if virtually everyone on the show has superpowers it removes a lot of the wow factor about the super powers.

For example, most of the other 6.59 billion people on the planet cannot hit Roger Clemens' fastball but a baseball game would be really dull if everyone in the game could hit it. Not sure if that example made sense but my point is that Heroes would be a lot better show if there were fewer people with powers so we felt their power was more special.

And I am 100% convinced the Tim Kreig never planned on having Linderman or mamma Petrelli have powers when he started this thing out. Heck, I think he did not plan on that even a few episodes ago. He is making up huge chunks of this stuff as he goes along... and he isn't even 1/10th the storyteller that Damon Lindelhoff is.

-Jason "sorry, I keep on comparing Heroes to Lost and that is just not fair to Heroes" Evans

BlueDiablo
04-25-2007, 11:00 AM
I can't believe how bad Heroes stucked. The acting was beyond awful. When big brother Petrelli was crying over Peter's body, it was just horrid. I actually backed it up on TIVO and said to the wife, "lets watch this again, just so we can see why Heroes is not even in the same ballpark as Lost."

Woah. It's amazing to me how much the pendulum of popular opinion has swung since earlier this season. So many people were saying that "Lost" had gone into a slump and that "Heroes" was better. I agree "Lost" is a better show, with stronger acting and writing, but "Heroes" isn't bad at all.

I thought this week's episode was just fine. Above average, even. The last few episodes before the break were fantastic, but it's difficult to build the momentum up again after a hiatus.

Exiled_Devil
04-25-2007, 11:10 AM
Exiled, I think you're on that credulity path, and I think I am, too. I was willing to overlook a lot on this show just because the ideas behind it were pretty cool. But as the concepts and themes have been either awkwardly fleshed out, or not fleshed out and expanded upon at all over the course of the season, my patience with the crummy acting, bad dialogue writing and plot contrivances is waning quickly. I'll watch the remaining episodes, but my enthusiasm is diminished. There's just too much going on to even follow now.



You know, I am not sure if I will be happier if they stop the bomb or if it goes off. I do know I will be PO'd if the season ends right before an exploding body. As it stands, I can see the summer haitus being interesting whether they stop the bomb or not. Of course, no matter what they do, the universe will just find some other way to kill Charlie.

Exiled

mkirsh
04-25-2007, 11:10 AM
I personally think the online comics are cool (and potentially better than the rest of the show), but totally agree with Jason and Mal that way too much of the story has moved there. The multimedia is fun, but should be for inconsequential details, not major parts of the backstory. I think some of the comics would have made great additions to the show - wouldn't the Lindemann in Vietnam flashback be a great way to start Season 2 (if he's still alive by then)? Would also help explain why a US soldier in Vietnam went Madonna and developed a Brittish accent in his later years.

As for comparisons to other TV shows, I think Heros is kind of in the middle of 24 and Lost, but unfortunately probably closer to 24. I think the main differences between those 2 shows is that 24 is totally focused on the plot, where Lost is much more about the characters and the plot is less emphasised (often to my frustration, but whatever). The execution of the 2 shows is also night and day, with the writing, acting, and storytelling of 24 light years away from Lost. Heros has seemed to focus more on plot vs character development, and I think the plot so far has been good and that is what has kept me interested and willing to live with the acting and dialogue. If they turn into 24 with twists that don't really make sense and the general feeling if making it up week to week, that's when I'll probably bail, but I'm going to let the season play out and see if they really know what they are doing or not.

BlueDiablo
04-25-2007, 11:22 AM
I have read some of the online comics, and they are cool, but it seems like huge plot holes are being covered up by "its in the comic." To me that is lousy make-it-up-as-you-go-along storytelling.

-Jason

Yeah, the writers are definitely making full use of the retcon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retcon) device.

johnb
04-25-2007, 11:49 AM
As someone who has never watched Heroes, I became intrigued because some of y'all seem to be fans. Tivo'ed it this week but can see that this week's show shouldn't be my introduction. Suggestions?

JasonEvans
04-25-2007, 12:25 PM
...both tanked in the ratings Monday.

Heroes was almost 3 million people below its season average, not good.

24 posted its lowest ratings ever since it moved to Monday nights. Yikes!

More here: http://www.reuters.com/article/televisionNews/idUSN2328871620070425

-Jason "and if, as many of us seem to think, the Heroes episode was bad, the ratings could get even worse" Evans

Clipsfan
04-25-2007, 12:40 PM
As someone who has never watched Heroes, I became intrigued because some of y'all seem to be fans. Tivo'ed it this week but can see that this week's show shouldn't be my introduction. Suggestions?

You can watch some of the older episodes on the internet at nbc.com, although I'm not sure which episode would be best to start with. I don't think that you need to go back to the beginning, as the overall feel has changed a ton throughout the season as the overall concept is created on the fly. I don't know how many episodes NBC has online, but I'd just start with the oldest one. That way you also get to watch them back-to-back.

JDSBlueDevl
04-25-2007, 12:51 PM
Well, to those dissatisfied with Heroes, there's always Jericho. All episodes are on Innertube (unless you have a Mac, b/c some yahoo at CBS decided to switch from RealPlayer 10 to RealPlayer 10.5). Oh, and ALL the info is in the show.

Me? I like both. I think of Heroes as an experiment in expanding the concept of a television series to the Internet. The only reason why I think there were major developments in the comic/blogs was b/c of the long layoff, trying to keep interest in the series high, and also to throw spoilers around before they're revealed in the show (big example is the Primatech website). I don't think any other major plot developments (besides, of course, expanding on tiny tidbits, sometimes in technical depth, in the show) were mentioned in the online stuff, with the exception of the "String Theory" comic. But again, I think that one is pointing toward spoilers in the next few episodes.

So, did the experiment succeed? Who knows? I'm intrigued by it, but I can see that some of you aren't.

JDSBlueDevl
04-25-2007, 12:52 PM
You can watch some of the older episodes on the internet at nbc.com, although I'm not sure which episode would be best to start with. I don't think that you need to go back to the beginning, as the overall feel has changed a ton throughout the season as the overall concept is created on the fly. I don't know how many episodes NBC has online, but I'd just start with the oldest one. That way you also get to watch them back-to-back.

Last I checked (Monday), all the episodes back to Chapter 1 were online.

JasonEvans
04-25-2007, 01:01 PM
Well, to those dissatisfied with Heroes, there's always Jericho. All episodes are on Innertube (unless you have a Mac, b/c some yahoo at CBS decided to switch from RealPlayer 10 to RealPlayer 10.5). Oh, and ALL the info is in the show.

Me? I like both.

Jericho is 100% being made up as they go along. I am sure of that. But, it is largely character driven and not dependant upon some great unanswered question in its plot for suspense and drama. As a result, the making-it-up part does not bother me as much. Plus, my expectations for Jericho are muuuch lower than they are for Heroes and Lost.

-Jason "there are shows I do not watch... but I ain't revealing what they are ;) " Evans

johnb
04-25-2007, 05:49 PM
Thanks for the heads up