ACC football rankings

[Olympic Fan]

I hate preseason polls -- based purely on speculation. But now that we have three weeks of results, I think it's time to take a stab at ranking the ACC football teams -- based on what they have actually accomplished (or not):

1. Miami 2-0 against two powerful ACC challengers. The next two weeks -- at Virginia Tech and home to Oklahoma -- should tell us how good these guys really are.

2. FSU 2-1 ... a last-second loss to Miami (Ponder came within inches of completing a game-winning pass on the last play); an embarrassingly close win over Jacksonville State and absolutely impressive beatdown of No. 7 BYU in Provo. Should handle South Florida and BC before an Oct. 10 visit by Georgia Tech.

3. Virginia Tech 2-1 ... at least they didn't pee down their pants in the opening loss to Alabama (like Clemson did in the '08 opener). Gritty (and dramatic) win over a solid Nebraska team Saturday. Get Miami at home this week -- a chance to move up.

4. North Carolina 3-0 ... haven't been particularly impressive against three mediocre opponents (even the 14-point victory over ECU was a struggle). Still, unbeaten is unbeaten. This week's game at Georgia Tech will tell us a lot about the Tar Heels.

5. Georgia Tech 2-1 ... how bad was the loss to Miami? How good was the victory over Clemson? Like UNC, this week's game (against the Heels in Atlanta) will tell us a lot.

6. Clemson 2-1 ... totally dominated previously unbeaten BC Saturday (although the offense never got in the end zone). Great comeback in the loss to Ga Tech, but after tying late, lost it later. Good test from top 25 TCU coming up this week in Death Valley.

7. Wake Forest 2-1 ... the Stanford win was a good one (even if they needed a bogus clip call to win it). The Elon win was meaningless. And the Baylor team that beat them in Winston isn't a great team (witness their loss to UConn). A very middle-of-the-road team ... but should be good enough to go to BC this week and win.

8. N.C. State 2-1 ... two meaningless routs of patsies after a dreadful showing against a middle-of-the-road SEC team at home. Pitt, expected to be a Big East contender, visits this week.

9. Boston College 2-1 ... whipped two weak sisters at home, then struggled badly at Clemson. The defense actually looks pretty decent -- but no QB and the once great OL looks weak. We'll see what they do when Wake visits Chesnut Hill this week.

10. Duke 1-2 ... badly beaten by a powerful Kansas team ... beaten at home by FCS power Richmond, but the win at Army (2-1 coming off Saturday's victory over Ball State) is decent (well, at least its better than anything the bottom five teams in this ranking have achieved). The next two games probably won't tell us much -- the Devils should handle NCCU this week and probably can't handle Va Tech the next. The next real question answerer will be Oct. 10 at NC State.

11. Maryland 1-2 ... okay, the thumping by Cal is not that bad (about the same as Duke's bad loss to Kansas). But OT to beat James Madison, followed by a home loss to Middle Tennessee (the second year in a row the Terps have lost to MTSU)? Whoa! Rutgers visits College Park Saturday and while the Scarlet Knights ain't a ranked team, they're better than JMU or MTSU. We'll see if the Fridge can stop the slide.

12. Virginia 0-3 ... Let's see, the Cavs start with a homefield loss to William and Mary. A lot of media equated that with Duke's loss to Richmond, but that's silly -- Richmond is a much stronger FCS power. Follow that with a homefield demolition at the hands of TCU -- okay, TCU is a top 25 team. But follow that by a loss at Southern Miss when the Cavs blew a 17-point second-half lead. Al Groh gets an off-week, but the next game is a trip to Chapel Hill.

To me, you rank teams on what they've done -- not on your perception of how good they are. That means the rankings have to change with new results. To me, the games this week that will have the most impact on the standings are Miami at Virginia Tech and UNC at Georgia Tech. Those two outcomes will give us a good read on the top of the league.

[hughgs]

12. Virginia 0-3 ... Let's see, the Cavs start with a homefield loss to William and Mary. A lot of media equated that with Duke's loss to Richmond, but that's silly -- Richmond is a much stronger FCS power.

Why do you think that Bill & Mary is so much weaker than Richmond? Bill & Mary are ranked 5 in the polls.

[Olympic Fan]

Why do you think that Bill & Mary is so much weaker than Richmond? Bill & Mary are ranked 5 in the polls.

And where do you think the defending FCS national champions rank?

Actually, going into last weekend, Richmond was No. 1 ... Bill and Mary were No. 12 (not 5). That's one spot below the Elon team that Wake beat the crud out of of Saturday:

http://fcsnow.com/poll.aspx

New FCS poll comes out tomorrow

[hughgs]

And where do you think the defending FCS national champions rank?

Actually, going into last weekend, Richmond was No. 1 ... Bill and Mary were No. 12 (not 5). That's one spot below the Elon team that Wake beat the crud out of of Saturday:

http://fcsnow.com/poll.aspx

New FCS poll comes out tomorrow

Yes, I realize the Richmond is #1, but the rankings I looked at don't show them being a consensus #1. And they show Bill and Mary at 5.

http://www.ncaa.com/rankings/master_rankings.html

[wolfpackdevil]

I really do think that NC State should be a lot higher than 8th.

Yes they did play two horrible teams, but their offense in the last two games has looked a lot smoother than it did against USC. And the 1st team defense has given up only 10 points in their first 3 games.

I think they are a lot better than Wake Forest and Clemson.

This is a team that in my mind will challenge FSU for the Atlantic division title. And with FSU already having 1 conference loss, NC State has a very good chance at going to the ACC title game

[Olympic Fan]

I actually agree that the Pack will finish better than eighth ... I also think they will be better than Wake and maybe UNC in the long run (O'Brien is 2-0 head-to-head with Butch). Not so sure about Clemson.

But, remember, my premise was to rank teams on what they have actually accomplished so far. Wake's win over a solid Stanford team is significantly more impressive than either of the two State wins (which rank about even with Wake's Elon win). And State's loss to S Carolina is roughly equal to Wake's loss to Baylor. As of now, I gotta rank Wake higher.

As for Clemson, their loss at Georgia Tech was -- to me, anyway -- less embarassing than a homefield loss to South Carolina. And their victory over Boston College, while hardly epic of anything, is worth much more than either of the Pack wins. Again, they gotta go higher.

I'm not down on State ... I'm just saying they dug themselves a hole in the opener and can't climb out of it by beating up the likes of Murray State or Gardner Webb. Let them take care of business this week against Pittsburgh and they'll zoom up the rankings.

Fair enough?

[throatybeard]

Sagarin not connected blah bah, but interestingly, despite our flaccid performance in Lawrence, we're rated above State, Maryland, and Virginia this week.

http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm

[CDu]

And where do you think the defending FCS national champions rank?

Actually, going into last weekend, Richmond was No. 1 ... Bill and Mary were No. 12 (not 5). That's one spot below the Elon team that Wake beat the crud out of of Saturday:

http://fcsnow.com/poll.aspx

New FCS poll comes out tomorrow

Actually, William and Mary IS #5 according to the NCAA polls. Is #1 necessarily significantly better than #5 in this case? I don't think putting the losses on a similar level is "silly." I do think we're better than Virginia, but that's another matter altogether.

[Olympic Fan]

Actually, William and Mary IS #5 according to the NCAA polls. Is #1 necessarily significantly better than #5 in this case? I don't think putting the losses on a similar level is "silly." I do think we're better than Virginia, but that's another matter altogether.

If you're going to make a claim such as that, how about providing a link (which, you'll note that I did provide to back my claim that W&M is No. 12).

Actually, there is no official "NCAA polls" -- either for the FBS or the FCS. I'm not denying that you might find a poll out there that ranks W&M where you say, but if you would be so kind as to provide a link, we'd know which poll you are talking about.

[Chard]

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/index.php/2009/09/21/2009-fcs-polls?blog=5

W&M #5 in all three polls.

[CDu]

If you're going to make a claim such as that, how about providing a link (which, you'll note that I did provide to back my claim that W&M is No. 12).

Actually, there is no official "NCAA polls" -- either for the FBS or the FCS. I'm not denying that you might find a poll out there that ranks W&M where you say, but if you would be so kind as to provide a link, we'd know which poll you are talking about.

It's already been provided I believe, but here you go. From NCAA.com (which I why I said NCAA polls, though technically they aren't NCAA polls):

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/division_i_aa1.html
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/division_i_aa2.html
http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/division_i_aa4.html

There are three on that website: the coaches' poll, the Sports Network poll, and the AGS poll. All of them have William and Mary at #5.

[Wander]

I think in a week, we'll see that VT is still the best team in the league, but I'm fine with putting Miami and FSU above them for now considering their impressive wins last week. I'd also swap NC State and Wake Forest, and drop UNC below Georgia Tech and Clemson.

And yeah, Maryland and UVA deserve to be below us. At least we have a win against a surprisingly quasi-respectable opponent.

[CDu]

I think in a week, we'll see that VT is still the best team in the league, but I'm fine with putting Miami and FSU above them for now considering their impressive wins last week. I'd also swap NC State and Wake Forest, and drop UNC below Georgia Tech and Clemson.

And yeah, Maryland and UVA deserve to be below us. At least we have a win against a surprisingly quasi-respectable opponent.

This weekend should help address some of your points, with UNC versus Ga Tech and Miami versus Va Tech.

[airowe]

I think in a week, we'll see that VT is still the best team in the league, but I'm fine with putting Miami and FSU above them for now considering their impressive wins last week. I'd also swap NC State and Wake Forest, and drop UNC below Georgia Tech and Clemson.


Wander, that was prophetic...

[davekay1971]

Some things that became clear yesterday

1) Va Tech is still the best team in the ACC
2) Most of the rest of the ACC is going to likely each-other into a pulp of 4-4 conference records.
3) UNC is not a top 25 team. Great talent on the field, and should have a potent defense, but their offense is lacking consistency at every skill position.
4) NCSU has the most exciting (maybe the best) player in the ACC on their roster. They'll go as far as Russell Wilson can take them. If you haven't taken the time to watch this kid play, do yourself a favor, and do it before he commits himself full-time to baseball.

[Udaman]

I thought you were going to say after "what became obvious yesterday" that....

The ACC is by far the most overrated conference in football, and miles behind pretty much every other major conference (Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-10 for certain, and arguably the Big East as well).

Miami, Fl is a neat team and all, but basically a paper tiger

Clemson and UNC are all bark, no bite

Florida State has no heart (only gets up for a big game)

Wake is not the cute Cinderella it once was

Boston College and NC State are at least interesting, as either the team nobody thought would do anything (Eagles), or the team with the overall best player (State)

Va Tech is our best team, but they would lose on a neutral field to pretty much anyone in the top 15, I think.

Maryland, Virginia, and unfortuantely Duke are brutal, and really three of the worst teams in the major conferences.

When is Midnight Madness again?

[whereinthehellami]

1. Miami has alot of young talent. Harris is special and is for real. There were some factors that contributed to the result against the Hokies yesterday. Miami had a couple hurt DL, bad weather that affected their gameplan, and a VT team that was at a crossroads (gutcheck time). Miami is still a threat to win the coastal.

2. I can't figure FSU out. They got the talent, the coaches. Must be chemistry and leadership.

3. That game from VT was huge. The coaches and players put alot into this game. Alot of insiders to the program felt that if the Hokies lost, the wheels would have come off and that if they won big it would be a launching pad for them. They are a pretty young team too and Beamer wanted this game to be about toughness. a test if you will. They hit Miami in the mouth and passed the test.

4. UNC is also young and has alot of injuries along the Oline (most important position on the O?). Couple those injuries with their inexperience at the WR spot and they are going to be playing alot of close games in the ACC.

5. I like GT and PJ alot. I'm a believer in his system. But this year their defense is not very good. They have a couple of playmakers on D but some pretty big holes to.

And the rest of the conference right now isn't worth writing about at this point.

[whereinthehellami]

The ACC is by far the most overrated conference in football, and miles behind pretty much every other major conference (Big Ten, Big 12, SEC, Pac-10 for certain, and arguably the Big East as well).

I disagree with this and think you bought into the whole SECPN media BS. Outside of the SEC most conferences are pretty much the same. The top 4 or 5 ACC teams would do pretty well in the other conferences (not sec). Bottom part of the ACC is pretty dang bad though and some teams are falling farther and farther behind.

[Highlander]

I disagree with this and think you bought into the whole SECPN media BS. Outside of the SEC most conferences are pretty much the same. The top 4 or 5 ACC teams would do pretty well in the other conferences (not sec). Bottom part of the ACC is pretty dang bad though and some teams are falling farther and farther behind.

The problem is that the ACC has, for several years now, never had a single team in contention for the national title. Our best team always ends up with 2 losses or an unforgiveable mid-season loss that takes them out of contention, and that reinforces the fact that we're a weak conference. All of the other BCS conferences have had a contender (Florida, Oklahoma, Ohio State, WVU, USC, etc). Va Tech has a chance to change that this year, as a team with one loss to Alabama early in the season could sneak in late, but they'd need help. I don't think any other team in the conference even has a shot, save maybe Miami.

Until the ACC can contend for a BCS championship game, we'll never be seen as a quality football conference, IMO.

[Olympic Fan]

New rankings after Saturday's games. Just a reminder, these ratings are based on actual performance ... not projected performance. As I suggested before the weekend, I thought NC State was better than their No. 8 ACC ranking ... and they proved that against Pitt. Thus, they move up:

1. Virginia Tech (3-1, 1-0): Decisive win over Miami clearly establishes the Hokies as the league's top dog.

2. Miami (2-1, 1-1): Loss at Blacksburg doesn't totally erase solid wins over FSU and Georgia Tech. It's obvious that as good as Jacory Harris is, he's not a mudder.

3. Georgia Tech (3-1, 1-1): Bounced back from loss to Miami by dominating UNC. That 24-7 win could have been a lot worse -- the Jackets had three possessions inside the UNC 10 in which they didn't score a point.

[big gap]

4. Florida State (2-2): What do you make of the 'Noles? One great game (BYU), one very good performance in a loss (Miami), one lousy performance in a win (Jacksonville State) and one lousy performance in a loss. Actually, South Florida is pretty good and if the 'Noles had eliminated their mistakes (four lost fumbles and a ton of penalties, including one that called back a long TD play), they could have won.

5. N.C. State (3-1, 0-0): I promised you a big jump if they beat Pitt. A huge win for the ACC (which had a horrible weak otherwise). Probably the third best win the league has had outside the league this year (after FSU at BYU and Va Tech over Nebraska).

6. Clemson (2-2, 1-1): Their victory over Boston College last week looks better today. But that game suggested that the Tigers have offensive problems (the only TD was a kick return ... otherwise six field goals). A very good TCU team exposed that problem. Until the offense catches up with a very solid Tiger defense, this is a middle-of-the road team.

7. Boston College (3-1, 1-1): Like Clemson, a very solid defense (holding the Tigers without an offensive TD), but a suspect offense. Two early season wins don't mean much, but Saturday's OT victory over Wake was huge. In my mind 6-7-8 in this poll are very close, very similar ... but Clemson d. BC and BC has a better win than anything UNC has.

8. North Carolina (3-1, 0-1): Another fairly solid defensive team with little offense. Three easy wins had people excited, but when they played their first decent opponent, they just got steamrollered.

9. Wake Forest (2-2, 0-1): Great comeback at BC, but they choked away the game in OT. Why does Jim Grobe always trying to get trickey inside the 5 -- they were running it right down BC's throat? The Deacs still have a good win -- Stanford is looking pretty good in the Pac 10.

10. Duke (2-2, 0-0): Okay, the NCCU win didn't mean much, but at least the Devils took care of business. And the Army win is still better than anything the bottom two have accomplished.

11. Virginia (0-3, 0-0): The bottom of this league is so bad this season that you can move up by not playing. Actually, Virginia's close loss at Southern Miss (even if it was a choke job) looks better in light of USM's tough game at Kansas.

12. Maryland (1-3, 0-0): The Twerps played Big East lightweight Rutgers tough for a little more than a half before folding big-time. Plus, the early season loss to Cal doesn't look so excusable now after the Bears were whipped in Oregon. An OT win over James Madison doesn't make up for three horrible losses (one more than Virginia or Duke).


Next week's ACC games all match the league's upper division teams against the lower division: Va Tech at Duke, NC State at Wake, Clemson at Maryland, Virginia at UNC. Probably the best league game is FSU at Boston College.

Outside the league, Miami has a chance to earn the ACC some prestige when Oklahoma comes to town (for an 8 p.m. national game) ... reports are that Bradford may be back.

Plus, Georgia Tech will visit Miss State against a team that choked away its chance to beat LSU last week.

[wolfpackdevil]

New rankings after Saturday's games. Just a reminder, these ratings are based on actual performance ... not projected performance. As I suggested before the weekend, I thought NC State was better than their No. 8 ACC ranking ... and they proved that against Pitt. Thus, they move up:

1. Virginia Tech (3-1, 1-0): Decisive win over Miami clearly establishes the Hokies as the league's top dog.

2. Miami (2-1, 1-1): Loss at Blacksburg doesn't totally erase solid wins over FSU and Georgia Tech. It's obvious that as good as Jacory Harris is, he's not a mudder.

3. Georgia Tech (3-1, 1-1): Bounced back from loss to Miami by dominating UNC. That 24-7 win could have been a lot worse -- the Jackets had three possessions inside the UNC 10 in which they didn't score a point.

[big gap]

4. Florida State (2-2): What do you make of the 'Noles? One great game (BYU), one very good performance in a loss (Miami), one lousy performance in a win (Jacksonville State) and one lousy performance in a loss. Actually, South Florida is pretty good and if the 'Noles had eliminated their mistakes (four lost fumbles and a ton of penalties, including one that called back a long TD play), they could have won.

5. N.C. State (3-1, 0-0): I promised you a big jump if they beat Pitt. A huge win for the ACC (which had a horrible weak otherwise). Probably the third best win the league has had outside the league this year (after FSU at BYU and Va Tech over Nebraska).

6. Clemson (2-2, 1-1): Their victory over Boston College last week looks better today. But that game suggested that the Tigers have offensive problems (the only TD was a kick return ... otherwise six field goals). A very good TCU team exposed that problem. Until the offense catches up with a very solid Tiger defense, this is a middle-of-the road team.

7. Boston College (3-1, 1-1): Like Clemson, a very solid defense (holding the Tigers without an offensive TD), but a suspect offense. Two early season wins don't mean much, but Saturday's OT victory over Wake was huge. In my mind 6-7-8 in this poll are very close, very similar ... but Clemson d. BC and BC has a better win than anything UNC has.

8. North Carolina (3-1, 0-1): Another fairly solid defensive team with little offense. Three easy wins had people excited, but when they played their first decent opponent, they just got steamrollered.

9. Wake Forest (2-2, 0-1): Great comeback at BC, but they choked away the game in OT. Why does Jim Grobe always trying to get trickey inside the 5 -- they were running it right down BC's throat? The Deacs still have a good win -- Stanford is looking pretty good in the Pac 10.

10. Duke (2-2, 0-0): Okay, the NCCU win didn't mean much, but at least the Devils took care of business. And the Army win is still better than anything the bottom two have accomplished.

11. Virginia (0-3, 0-0): The bottom of this league is so bad this season that you can move up by not playing. Actually, Virginia's close loss at Southern Miss (even if it was a choke job) looks better in light of USM's tough game at Kansas.

12. Maryland (1-3, 0-0): The Twerps played Big East lightweight Rutgers tough for a little more than a half before folding big-time. Plus, the early season loss to Cal doesn't look so excusable now after the Bears were whipped in Oregon. An OT win over James Madison doesn't make up for three horrible losses (one more than Virginia or Duke).


Next week's ACC games all match the league's upper division teams against the lower division: Va Tech at Duke, NC State at Wake, Clemson at Maryland, Virginia at UNC. Probably the best league game is FSU at Boston College.

Outside the league, Miami has a chance to earn the ACC some prestige when Oklahoma comes to town (for an 8 p.m. national game) ... reports are that Bradford may be back.

Plus, Georgia Tech will visit Miss State against a team that choked away its chance to beat LSU last week.


I like these rankings a lot, but the ACC is just so unpredictable these days.

It will be interesting to see what NCSU does at WF in what SHOULD be a win.

I think the Game between NC State and Florida State in Tallahassee will decide the Atlantic Division