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hurleyfor3
09-17-2009, 11:41 AM
Curious as how the rivalry affects people. Assume Duke and unc are both decent teams (say, both 2-seeds) under either scenario. Also, assume high expectations for us going in, unlike many of our expectations in 2008-09. I'm trying to pre-empt "it depends" answers.

Of course this is men's basketball; don't get cute.

DukeCO2009
09-17-2009, 12:03 PM
I'd rather Duke lose in the second round and chapel hill lose in the first, and it's not even close. Anyone who says otherwise has likely never dealt with large amounts of chapel hill fans at school or work, in social settings, etc. I have all my life, and I can say without exception that they are the most obnoxious breed of sports followers on the planet. If they beat us in the title game, we wouldn't just hear about it for a couple weeks; we would hear about it for years, decades, etc. I bleed Duke blue, but I would unequivocally take the early exit in this scenario. That said, us beating them for a championship would just be sweet. Really, really sweet. Were such a matchup ever to occur, though, the world might collapse in on itself from all the hype.

whereinthehellami
09-17-2009, 12:09 PM
I'd rather Duke lose in the second round and chapel hill lose in the first, and it's not even close. Anyone who says otherwise has likely never dealt with large amounts of chapel hill fans at school or work, in social settings, etc. I have all my life, and I can say without exception that they are the most obnoxious breed of sports followers on the planet. If they beat us in the title game, we wouldn't just hear about it for a couple weeks; we would hear about it for years, decades, etc. I bleed Duke blue, but I would unequivocally take the early exit in this scenario. That said, us beating them for a championship would just be sweet. Really, really sweet. Were such a matchup ever to occur, though, the world might collapse in on itself from all the hype.

I agree completely. My boss is a big UNC fan. Its been brutal, though I can dish it out well enough. We get along really well but he has said that if he knew I was a Duke fan when he hired me, he would have hired someone else. I really don't think he was kidding. Fortunately he is a big Panther fan also, so I got that going for me.

CameronBornAndBred
09-17-2009, 12:11 PM
While I always want to make it to the Final Four...I never want to lose to the 'holes there. I'm happy enough that we have never played them in the Final Four. If we lose in the second, that will be ugly, but at least unc went down in the previous game.
Pretty grim poll by the way...where's the "we beat the hell out of carolina in the elite 8, thus advancing ourselves to the final four while they cry in their wine in Chapel Hell" option?

InSpades
09-17-2009, 12:40 PM
Definitely lose in the 2nd round. I remember when the Yankees played the Mets in the World Series... my brother and I are both huge Yankees fans. I was all excited. He was absolutely terrified. I was thinking about how great it would be for the Yankees to beat the Mets on the biggest stage and all he could think about was the possibility of the Mets beating the Yankees on that very same stage. Different rivalry but basically the same premise. Losing to your rival for the championship is up there as far as worst possible scenarios go.

DU Band Prez 88
09-17-2009, 12:53 PM
Definitely lose in the 2nd round. I remember when the Yankees played the Mets in the World Series... my brother and I are both huge Yankees fans. I was all excited. He was absolutely terrified. I was thinking about how great it would be for the Yankees to beat the Mets on the biggest stage and all he could think about was the possibility of the Mets beating the Yankees on that very same stage. Different rivalry but basically the same premise. Losing to your rival for the championship is up there as far as worst possible scenarios go.

Duke and UNC may eventually play for the title, or in the Final Four, but honestly I hope it doesn't happen. I only see corollaries from college football and baseball where the rivalry is as intense and where a scenario could occur.

- If Ohio State and Michigan were ever to play in the BCS title game
- Auburn vs. Alabama in the BCS title game
(Probably others in college football, depending on where you're from and your opinion...Texas vs. Texas A&M might be another....but I do think that the two above are the most intense ongoing rivalries)
- Cubs vs. White Sox in World Series would turn Chicago upside down

Also, how about Yankees vs. Red Sox again for the ALCS

moonpie23
09-17-2009, 01:08 PM
gotta be 10 holes fans for voting to lose to unc in the nat champ.


this isn't even close...

Duvall
09-17-2009, 01:11 PM
gotta be 10 holes fans for voting to lose to unc in the nat champ.


cwaugh, dukiedevil89, gethlives, Indoor66, JasonEvans, RepoMan, southgater, SushiChef, Waynne, Wheat/"/"/"

I only count three Carolina fans there.

throatybeard
09-17-2009, 01:25 PM
I'll take it a step further; I don't want to play them in the NCAA Title game even if we win. Their pathologically aggressive fans are even worse when we beat them.

BlueintheFace
09-17-2009, 01:27 PM
I'll take it a step further; I don't want to play them in the NCAA Title game even if we win. Their pathologically aggressive fans are even worse when we beat them.

but wouldn't it be worth it after? I mean, it would be the ultimate trump card.

Still, I would never want to play them in the championship game... ever. Every play would just hurt too much. Every missed shot... (shiver) ugh... it makes me feel sick thinking about it.

Lord Ash
09-17-2009, 01:49 PM
This seems like a somewhat pointless poll; what would you rather, UNC winning the title or Duke going farther than UNC in the NCAAs?

Am I misreading something?

Wheat/"/"/"
09-17-2009, 01:50 PM
I don't understand Duke fans not wanting to play for the title against UNC, or vice versa.

The spirit of competition demands it!

I would absolutely love to see that game. In fact, I would dip into the retirement fund to be there, somehow.

There would be a ton of pressure there, for both teams.
But, what's the old saying, "pressure creates diamonds" ?
(BTW, possibly even a little more pressure than Duke fans are feeling now with the HB decision) ;)

The game is played from your toes, not from your heels. ;) (Pun alert!)

Duvall
09-17-2009, 01:55 PM
I don't understand Duke fans not wanting to play for the title against UNC, or vice versa.


That's because UNC fans don't view you as an enemy.

-bdbd
09-17-2009, 02:11 PM
This seems like a somewhat pointless poll; what would you rather, UNC winning the title or Duke going farther than UNC in the NCAAs?

Am I misreading something?

Ash -- well that's ONE way to skew the question...
Another way to look at it is, "Would you rather see Duke lose in the 2nd round or in the Championship game?"

-BDBD
:p

Azdukefan
09-17-2009, 02:13 PM
I am sure other Dukies are going to kill me but making to the championship game would be my preference. I would hate losing to the Holes but it would be historic. Due to the fact that I am isolated from NC I am sure I would not take as much heat as the rest of you but I have to take heat after EVERY Duke loss. In fact, if we lose an early morning game and I happen to be officiating I have to turn off my phone before I begin so that my DVR will give me a chance to catch the action before someone ruins it. I attended the 2004 Final Four game and I hadn't as much as walked into the lobby and I had one call and three voice messages. I guess that is what we get for winning so much ;)!

Greg_Newton
09-17-2009, 02:19 PM
I think the poll results would be pretty different in, say, 2002. Clever poll though, it sure shows why everyone thinks we're in such a "slump" right now!

airowe
09-17-2009, 02:32 PM
This poll is broken. Neither is not an option.

throatybeard
09-17-2009, 03:20 PM
I don't understand Duke fans not wanting to play for the title against UNC, or vice versa.

Spoken like someone who has never lived in North Carolina as a Duke fan or alumnus.

My life is a lot better since I've lived in places where I don't run into many hate-filled UNC fans berating me in the grocery store, the gas station, my own dorm at Duke, at the dentist, at the pharmacy, everywhere. For having the gall to wear a shirt from my alma mater.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
09-17-2009, 03:48 PM
Spoken like someone who has never lived in North Carolina as a Duke fan or alumnus.

My life is a lot better since I've live in places where I don't run into many hate-filled UNC fans berating me in the grocery store, the gas station, my own dorm at Duke, at the dentist, at the pharmacy, everywhere. For having the gall to wear a shirt from my alma mater.

This, this, a thousand times this.

The pervasive, and often sanctimonious anti-Duke animus is hard to describe to folks who aren't surrounded by it. Of course there are many wonderful UNC fans, many of whom hang out at DBR. But there are also a whole lot of UNC teachers who punish Duke-fan students after game day and legislators passing resolutions praising UNC basketball and condemning Duke, etc. It is non-stop, completely irrational, and too often goes beyond rivalry into morality play. When they say "If God isn't a Tar Heel, why is the sky Carolina blue" a lot of UNC fans really, really mean it.

Azdukefan
09-17-2009, 03:59 PM
This poll is broken. Neither is not an option.

One word.....Brilliant!

OZZIE4DUKE
09-17-2009, 04:19 PM
I don't understand Duke fans not wanting to play for the title against UNC, or vice versa.

The spirit of competition demands it!

I would absolutely love to see that game. In fact, I would dip into the retirement fund to be there, somehow.

There would be a ton of pressure there, for both teams.
But, what's the old saying, "pressure creates diamonds" ?
Wheat, I'm with you on this one. We can only beat you when we play you, and don't we all look forward to those games every year?

And to be clear, I NEVER NEVER NEVER want to lose to unc.

RepoMan
09-17-2009, 04:22 PM
As a Duke fan living in the Triangle in an office full of TarHeels who, predictably, cheer more against Duke than they do for UNC and who, despite my absence of trash-talking, manage to find a way to taunt me about every Duke loss in mind-numbingly irritating way (my most hated are the faux serious question -- e.g., why did K have Langdon take the ball?), I completely understand the dread of a UNC victory over Duke in a National Championship game. The day after would be beyond terrible.

However, nonetheless, I did not find it particularly hard to select that choice. When Duke flames out early, I do find solace if UNC went earlier; ultimately, however, it is just a huge bummer--the end of a typically enjoyable season, with a long dry off-season filled with interminable recruiting speculation imminent. In contrast, making it to the final four and playing in the final extends and exponentially increases the fun of the season. Sure, a loss would there to UNC would be terrible, but I'd rather be there for that game and to have a chance at the glory than to be sitting on the sidelines with a dud post-season in my hands.

hurleyfor3
09-17-2009, 04:33 PM
Well, somehow this "pointless" poll is pushing 60 responses after some six hours.

This is similar to an informal poll a (U.S.) business school professor asked his (U.S.) students many years ago. The options were, for the remainder of one's life, would one prefer

(A) That the US GDP grow 3% per year and Japan's grow 5%
(B) That the US GDP grow 2% per year and Japan's grow 1%.

(Nowadays substitute China or whomever you think is the U.S.'s economic rival.) The correct answer is A, whether you're American or Japanese, but almost everyone picked B. And these were grad students at one of the best business schools in the country.

This poll isn't exactly the same, but it does reveal a palpable need to outperform one's rival, even if it means sacrificing one's own well-being. The second scenario pretty much happened in 2006. I would have been thrilled to have lost the title game to unc (a #3 seed that year, remember) instead of blowing out to some football school.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-17-2009, 04:39 PM
Spoken like someone who has never lived in North Carolina as a Duke fan or alumnus.

My life is a lot better since I've live in places where I don't run into many hate-filled UNC fans berating me in the grocery store, the gas station, my own dorm at Duke, at the dentist, at the pharmacy, everywhere. For having the gall to wear a shirt from my alma mater.

I've been around the rivalry all my life, and have lived in N.C., (born there). I know how ugly it can get.

But, I guess it's a human nature thing- reacting to this potential matchup in different ways.

I'd want my team to play this game, and play with an attitude to win, not with an attitude to try and avoid losing.
Fans, either side, should have the same attitude in a game like this, IMO.

Fear of failure can cripple. Why go through life with a limp? :)

The heck with what other fans think or say.

If I lose, my team loses, I can look 'em in the eye and say my team did their best, and we will work harder to win the next one.

Big game? Big deal?
Not really.

There's pancreatic cancer in the world, war...

There's always a next one. And it's only a game.

"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."- Einstein

Lord Ash
09-17-2009, 04:49 PM
As a Duke fan living in the Triangle in an office full of TarHeels who, predictably, cheer more against Duke than they do for UNC and who, despite my absence of trash-talking, manage to find a way to taunt me about every Duke loss in mind-numbingly irritating way (my most hated are the faux serious question -- e.g., why did K have Langdon take the ball?), I completely understand the dread of a UNC victory over Duke in a National Championship game. The day after would be beyond terrible.

However, nonetheless, I did not find it particularly hard to select that choice. When Duke flames out early, I do find solace if UNC went earlier; ultimately, however, it is just a huge bummer--the end of a typically enjoyable season, with a long dry off-season filled with interminable recruiting speculation imminent. In contrast, making it to the final four and playing in the final extends and exponentially increases the fun of the season. Sure, a loss would there to UNC would be terrible, but I'd rather be there for that game and to have a chance at the glory than to be sitting on the sidelines with a dud post-season in my hands.

But according to this poll there is NOT a chance of glory. We are being asked if we would rather UNC win a title or Duke advance farther than UNC in the NCAAs. That isn't spin, that is the poll.

I stand by my initial statement that this is a silly poll. You want to make it...

"Either UNC out first round, Duke out second, or...

Duke vs UNC for the title, winner is up for grabs"

I think that is a lot more interesting. Otherwise, we know the outcome; would you rather second place while our biggest rival cements themselves as ahead of us in the rivalry in the two MOST important ways (titles and beating us for the title) or would you rather us have a season like the last few while Carolina crashes and burns in the first round?

Silly.

loran16
09-17-2009, 05:12 PM
Well, somehow this "pointless" poll is pushing 60 responses after some six hours.

This is similar to an informal poll a (U.S.) business school professor asked his (U.S.) students many years ago. The options were, for the remainder of one's life, would one prefer

(A) That the US GDP grow 3% per year and Japan's grow 5%
(B) That the US GDP grow 2% per year and Japan's grow 1%.

(Nowadays substitute China or whomever you think is the U.S.'s economic rival.) The correct answer is A, whether you're American or Japanese, but almost everyone picked B. And these were grad students at one of the best business schools in the country.

This poll isn't exactly the same, but it does reveal a palpable need to outperform one's rival, even if it means sacrificing one's own well-being. The second scenario pretty much happened in 2006. I would have been thrilled to have lost the title game to unc (a #3 seed that year, remember) instead of blowing out to some football school.

Bad analogy. In the economic example, odds are that this would have hurt their own financial well being for the US economy to do worse absolutely (2% rather than 3%). You're putting happiness there (the competitive spirit) against actual well being.

Whereas there is no actual-well being improvement to be had here unless you had money on one side. If you had money on Duke making the championship game and you asked this question it would be similar. But as it is, this is simply a question of happiness, of personal utility. And well, I as well as others would derive more happiness from us going farther than UNC than us losing in the Finals to them.

cwaugh
09-17-2009, 05:16 PM
But according to this poll there is NOT a chance of glory. We are being asked if we would rather UNC win a title or Duke advance farther than UNC in the NCAAs. That isn't spin, that is the poll.

I stand by my initial statement that this is a silly poll. You want to make it...

"Either UNC out first round, Duke out second, or...

Duke vs UNC for the title, winner is up for grabs"

I think that is a lot more interesting. Otherwise, we know the outcome; would you rather second place while our biggest rival cements themselves as ahead of us in the rivalry in the two MOST important ways (titles and beating us for the title) or would you rather us have a season like the last few while Carolina crashes and burns in the first round?

Silly.

There would be no need for that poll...Everyone would want Duke vs. UNC for the title.

BlueintheFace
09-17-2009, 05:26 PM
If I felt Duke had a team of equal or better talent to Carolina, I would always want to play in that championship game. The reason: coaching would be the difference, and I like our odds.

I would be miserable and hate it, but I think I can say I'd want to be in that situation (more shivering).

hurleyfor3
09-17-2009, 05:27 PM
Bad analogy. In the economic example, odds are that this would have hurt their own financial well being for the US economy to do worse absolutely (2% rather than 3%). You're putting happiness there (the competitive spirit) against actual well being.


Incorrect. You should always prefer your own economy to grow more vs. grow less regardless of what other economies do. An exception may occur if one has high explicit career exposure to another country's economy, but this is not the case with a large, diversified sample size.

throatybeard
09-17-2009, 05:59 PM
I've been around the rivalry all my life, and have lived in N.C., (born there). I know how ugly it can get.

But, I guess it's a human nature thing- reacting to this potential matchup in different ways.

I'd want my team to play this game, and play with an attitude to win, not with an attitude to try and avoid losing.
Fans, either side, should have the same attitude in a game like this, IMO.

Fear of failure can cripple. Why go through life with a limp? :)

The heck with what other fans think or say.

If I lose, my team loses, I can look 'em in the eye and say my team did their best, and we will work harder to win the next one.

Big game? Big deal?
Not really.

There's pancreatic cancer in the world, war...

There's always a next one. And it's only a game.

"If you are out to describe the truth, leave elegance to the tailor."- Einstein

No, the game itself is not a big deal. Yes, it is a big deal the way your hyper-aggressive fans verbally abuse us in public, 365 days a year.

throatybeard
09-17-2009, 06:02 PM
As a Duke fan living in the Triangle in an office full of TarHeels who, predictably, cheer more against Duke than they do for UNC and who, despite my absence of trash-talking, manage to find a way to taunt me about every Duke loss in mind-numbingly irritating way (my most hated are the faux serious question -- e.g., why did K have Langdon take the ball?), I completely understand the dread of a UNC victory over Duke in a National Championship game. The day after would be beyond terrible.


And not just the day after. The rest of time would be terrible in that state.

Rooting for a Duke-UNC final makes about as much sense as rooting for and Israel-Iran conflict. There's absolutely nothing good that can come of it.

brevity
09-17-2009, 07:19 PM
I initially felt very strongly about the second option -- unlike most of you, I realize that there's a big glorious world of college basketball that extends past Highway 15-501, and the saddest thing about the season is when it ends for everybody, and not just Duke. Take last March, for example: you want to tell me that you'd rather see some lame baseball preseason game over Pitt-Villanova?

But then, after reading this thread, I've changed my mind, and am going with the first option. What kind of fans are we that we want to see Duke do well, but not if it plays into some social fear of facing our biggest rival on the biggest stage? So what if there's a chance that light blue fans will taunt us? Is that any reason to shy away from a greater measure of success?

I realize that the natives in North Carolina get the worst of the rivalry year-round, while I live the good life 3 time zones away, but trust me: we want that opportunity for a championship, with whatever player personnel we have. Even if we look outmatched. Even if all five starters are out with injury, and we're suiting up student managers for substitutions. And even if we lose by more than 30.

camion
09-17-2009, 07:52 PM
I know it's the off season, but this is worth voting on for what reason?

RepoMan
09-17-2009, 08:02 PM
But according to this poll there is NOT a chance of glory. We are being asked if we would rather UNC win a title or Duke advance farther than UNC in the NCAAs. That isn't spin, that is the poll.

Yeah, but as those hypothetical games developed, you wouldn't know the result. In other words, after the games were played, and I knew that Duke had lost in the final to UNC, I would not have traded that result for the early flameout because I would have enjoyed the ride and the opportunity we had to win in all

RepoMan
09-17-2009, 08:04 PM
And not just the day after. The rest of time would be terrible in that state.

Rooting for a Duke-UNC final makes about as much sense as rooting for and Israel-Iran conflict. There's absolutely nothing good that can come of it.

don't get me wrong, i'd rather not see a duke v unc final. i am risk averse by nature

throatybeard
09-17-2009, 08:12 PM
Take last March, for example: you want to tell me that you'd rather see some lame baseball preseason game over Pitt-Villanova?

MLB RS pretty much starts up seamlessly with NCAA Monday night.

gep
09-17-2009, 11:48 PM
I read the poll as...

1. Duke LOSING to unc in the NCAA final.

or

2. Duke losing in the 2nd round, while unc loses in the 1st round.

In other words, if you pick #1, you are saying that it's better to lose to unc in the final... not that Duke and unc *meet* in the final, with the outcome of the game to be decided there.

Given that, I do not want to lose to unc in the final... ever. But if Duke bows out in the 2nd round and unc bows out in the 1st round, I'm happy:D

throatybeard
09-17-2009, 11:59 PM
I know it's the off season, but this is worth voting on for what reason?

No reason. But a lot of unjustifiable threads come up on the BB offseason for some reason.

It's not the "off season" BTW. Duke is playing men's and women's Soccer, Volleyball, other sports, and Football. Only a sick culture that recognizes only one sex of one sport would consider fall semester the "offseason."

ice-9
09-18-2009, 12:51 AM
This thread is an eye opener for me.

While I was only in NC for four years, and largely comfortably isolated in Duke territory, so I can only somewhat understand what some of you are going through vis a vis tar heel fans...

Seriously?

Losing in the 2nd round?

Has Duke BB come to this level where we define our own sucess and failure relative to that of our neighbor?

I will picking losing in the championship game and hanging a Final Four banner ANY DAY than losing in the first week of the tournament, a prospect so depressing I don't even want to think about it.

Even if it is to a three-headed monster of Roy "!@#$ UNC" Williams, Jim "U-Convicts" Calhoun, and John Calimari.

RelativeWays
09-18-2009, 06:55 AM
Objectively, you'd love to say that you want your team in the fight to be the best every season so to settle for anything less than playing in the championship game would be unacceptable......

but sheep fans are obnoxious enough as it is over the past five years, I can't imagine how terrible it would be if they beat Duke for the national title. It would be hard to accept that scenario under any circumstances. I would contemplate a career as a mass murderer...ok not really but I'd be inclined to resort to petty vandalism as revenge.:D

NSDukeFan
09-18-2009, 07:23 AM
And not just the day after. The rest of time would be terrible in that state.

Rooting for a Duke-UNC final makes about as much sense as rooting for and Israel-Iran conflict. There's absolutely nothing good that can come of it.

As someone who has only spent a few days in your state and is not affiliated with the program or school and is just a big fan of Duke basketball and not an enemy of UNC nearly as much, this was an easy question for me. Even in your situation, I would think of one great thing that could come of a Duke-UNC final. A fourth championship banner would still be nice, wouldn't it?

throatybeard
09-18-2009, 07:49 AM
As someone who has only spent a few days in your state and is not affiliated with the program or school and is just a big fan of Duke basketball and not an enemy of UNC nearly as much, this was an easy question for me. Even in your situation, I would think of one great thing that could come of a Duke-UNC final. A fourth championship banner would still be nice, wouldn't it?

Like I said, they're even worse when we beat them. The human cost would be insane. You don't want to mess with these people.

The poll sets up a false dichotomy, anyway. There are a lot of options in between.

I think my personal favorite option would be for Duke to go D3 in all sports after K retires, like WashU or Chicago, and concentrate on what matters, which isn't big-time sports. That would solve a lot of these problems.

jv001
09-18-2009, 08:03 AM
As someone who has only spent a few days in your state and is not affiliated with the program or school and is just a big fan of Duke basketball and not an enemy of UNC nearly as much, this was an easy question for me. Even in your situation, I would think of one great thing that could come of a Duke-UNC final. A fourth championship banner would still be nice, wouldn't it?

That was not the poll. The poll was that Duke would lose to unc in the NCAA Championship game. A fourth championship banner would be great, but that's not the question here. I don't ever like losing to anyone and in particular unc. Their fans make it that way. You really want to know how I feel. Well I would like for Chapel Helll to fall into hell from an earthquake, after all the people are evacuated from there. Yes even the tarhole people. I don't want them to die, but I would like for unc to just go away and hell would be the best place I can think of. Now if you have any question as to how I voted I will be glad to tell you. Go Duke!

Reddevil
09-18-2009, 08:26 AM
Rooting for a Duke-UNC final makes about as much sense as rooting for and Israel-Iran conflict. There's absolutely nothing good that can come of it.

I was trying to think of a proper analogy for this and you nailed it. This matchup should NEVER happen anywhere in the NCAA tourney. The emotional investment on both sides is too much. If a wisdom tooth comes in straight, don't mess with it - potentially too painful. Don't tug on Superman's cape, don't spit into the wind, don't mess around with the 'ol lone ranger, and pray this matchup never occurs! Even in victory, too many lives involving the non-combatants would be lost on both sides for various reason's (heart attacks, stokes, etc.). The collateral damage would cause irreversible harm no matter the outcome. Yeah, yeah, it's just a game, but still.

NSDukeFan
09-18-2009, 08:34 AM
That was not the poll. The poll was that Duke would lose to unc in the NCAA Championship game. A fourth championship banner would be great, but that's not the question here. I don't ever like losing to anyone and in particular unc. Their fans make it that way. You really want to know how I feel. Well I would like for Chapel Helll to fall into hell from an earthquake, after all the people are evacuated from there. Yes even the tarhole people. I don't want them to die, but I would like for unc to just go away and hell would be the best place I can think of. Now if you have any question as to how I voted I will be glad to tell you. Go Duke!

I was replying to Throatybeard's assertion that nothing positive could come of a UNC-Duke final. For many of you in NC, that appears to be the case, but a fourth championship would be nice for others. I realize that wasn't the answer to the poll question. I tried also to explain my rationale. Sorry if I was confusing, I didn't think so, but there are still some disadvantages to typing and the internet.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-18-2009, 08:49 AM
Like I said, they're even worse when we beat them. The human cost would be insane. You don't want to mess with these people.


Geeze Throaty, 4 years of Tyler Hansbrough has really gotten to you hasn't it?

Let's see, in this thread alone you also state:

"Their pathologically aggressive fans are even worse when we beat them."

"My life is a lot better since I've lived in places where I don't run into many hate-filled UNC fans berating me in the grocery store, the gas station, my own dorm at Duke, at the dentist, at the pharmacy, everywhere."

"Yes, it is a big deal the way your hyper-aggressive fans verbally abuse us in public, 365 days a year."

Whaaaaaa.......;)

I'd think that a fan of a team that has AVERAGED an impressive 30 wins a season for the past ten years would find a little more happiness in fandom life, not spend the day worring about juviniles taunting them.

You going to avoid Kentucky because their fans might pick on you?

How about N.C. State winning a championship game against Duke? Think that they will send you flowers and chocolates and a moist towel?

Play the games as they come, seek out the best, and beat them.

Or keep trying, doing your best.

Otherwise you are doomed to be stuck with the red headed step child status you seem to embrace, no matter who you play.

throatybeard
09-18-2009, 09:10 AM
Geeze Throaty, 4 years of Tyler Hansbrough has really gotten to you hasn't it?

Let's see, in this thread alone you also state:

"Their pathologically aggressive fans are even worse when we beat them."

"My life is a lot better since I've lived in places where I don't run into many hate-filled UNC fans berating me in the grocery store, the gas station, my own dorm at Duke, at the dentist, at the pharmacy, everywhere."

"Yes, it is a big deal the way your hyper-aggressive fans verbally abuse us in public, 365 days a year."

Whaaaaaa.......;)

I'd think that a fan of a team that has AVERAGED an impressive 30 wins a season for the past ten years would find a little more happiness in fandom life, not spend the day worring about juviniles taunting them.

You going to avoid Kentucky because their fans might pick on you?

How about N.C. State winning a championship game against Duke? Think that they will send you flowers and chocolates and a moist towel?

Play the games as they come, seek out the best, and beat them.

Or keep trying, doing your best.

Otherwise you are doomed to be stuck with the red headed step child status you seem to embrace, no matter who you play.

Long-time readers of this site know that Wheat likes to play this role as if he's some sort of magnanimous awesome guy, but once in while he lets his true colors as an agitator show, as in the last sentence. Some things never change.

I worked at State for 6 years. People were infinitely nicer to me and my Duke gear wearing self than Carolina fans are. At any rate, what UK fans would do doesn't excuse anyone else's behavior.

I don't give a crap about Hansbrough. My feelings are a reaction to living in North Carolina for many years and putting up with untold amounts of uninvited verbal abuse from your alumni and fans. (As one 60ish man at the Dean Dome in 1997 informed me, "Duke is just a $hitty institution."). I'm very glad not to live in NC anymore. There are pretty mountains in other places, and I can get my fill of Q in Lexington when I visit my folks in Winston.

Whether we win 30 games or not is immaterial. This isn't about results on the court. It's about how human beings treat each other in everyday life. Your fanbase is pathologically aggressive, the likes of which I've only witnessed in Maryland and LSU's cases.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-18-2009, 09:47 AM
Your fanbase is pathologically aggressive, the likes of which I've only witnessed in Maryland and LSU's cases.

And by your logic, the Duke fanbase is so smug, aloof, arrogant and overbearing that UNC fans shouldn't want to play the game and should move away because it could get worse if UNC loses?

I don't play any role. I just offer my opinions as honest as I can and try to do so respectfully when I know they will not always be received with a warm hug.

Actually, maybe I do play a role, I totally realize I am the Yang to the Ying around here.

A little banter like this is good for the site, and I can be found guilty of a sly dig now and again, I will agree.
But to me, a little verbal jousting keeps it interesting and I look forward to a return shot or some thoughtful debate. It's all good...

I don't think anyone expects everyone to agree all the time around here.

Play the game, and let's see who wins. To avoid that challenge, for any reason, is weak. That's my point.

throatybeard
09-18-2009, 09:54 AM
And by your logic, the Duke fanbase is so smug, aloof, arrogant and overbearing that UNC fans shouldn't want to play the game and should move away because it could get worse if UNC loses?

No. UNC is a hyper-aggressive majority group. We've got plenty of insufferable twits--I'm usually the first around here to speak out against Duke arrogance. But there's simply no comparison in the aggression and the size of the fanbase.

You aren't even listening to me. This goes far, far beyond who wins or loses. This involves people acting like aggressive dicks 365 days a year even when I never bring up sports as a topic.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-18-2009, 10:06 AM
No. UNC is a hyper-aggressive majority group. We've got plenty of insufferable twits--I'm usually the first around here to speak out against Duke arrogance. But there's simply no comparison in the aggression and the size of the fanbase.

You aren't even listening to me. This goes far, far beyond who wins or loses. This involves people acting like aggressive dicks 365 days a year even when I never bring up sports as a topic.

I hear ya, people can be dicks. Both sides. We are a bigger fanbase, and have more dicks. Can't disagree with that.

To me, that's no reason to avoid what could be the greatest game that college basketball may ever see.
Just sayin'...

throatybeard
09-18-2009, 10:09 AM
To me, that's no reason to avoid what could be the greatest game that college basketball may ever see.
Just sayin'...

College basketball does not matter in the grand scheme of things. How people treat each other does.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-18-2009, 10:17 AM
College basketball does not matter in the grand scheme of things. How people treat each other does.

You and I probably agree much more than we realize. There is way too much anomosity and a general lack of civility in the world.

I just want a ticket to that potential Duke/UNC championship game. ;)

Faison1
09-18-2009, 11:14 AM
No. UNC is a hyper-aggressive majority group. We've got plenty of insufferable twits--I'm usually the first around here to speak out against Duke arrogance. But there's simply no comparison in the aggression and the size of the fanbase.

You aren't even listening to me. This goes far, far beyond who wins or loses. This involves people acting like aggressive dicks 365 days a year even when I never bring up sports as a topic.

I gotta relay a story here with regards to Chapel Hill Fans. There is this friend's father who is a huge UNC Booster. I've known him for years. In my younger years, he and I may have gotten into it a bit in terms of the rivalry. But as I've matured, I've tried to tone down my attitude, especially since, as Throaty mentioned, when living in the neighboring region, it can be challenging being a Duke fan.

In any case, this guy is very successful, nearing retirement, I'm guessing 67 years old or so. Before last season started, I saw him on the beach, thought I would take a different approach with him, and complimented him on what I thought was going to be a championship team and an exciting season for UNC fans.

A year goes by, I'm invited to a party he is throwing, I go up to tell him how much we appreciated being invited, and congratulate him on UNC's championship. He turns to me and says, "What do Dean Smith, Roy Williams, and Coach K all have in common?" (Oh boy, here we go, I think to myself). "What?" I answer. "They all have winning records in Cameron."

Hysterical laughter by all older adults surrounding him (I'm in my mid-30's, so I can't be too rude). All I can do is smile, say something along the lines of "it all goes in cycles", say thanks again, and walk away.

So, Wheat, I would say this is more the norm than the exception, having experienced this sort of thing on at least a weekly basis. Just thought I would share. Having lived in California, it was very nice not having to deal with it, but the trade off of living by the water in the South more than compensates for the fan base of UNC.

The Gordog
09-18-2009, 12:03 PM
Incorrect. You should always prefer your own economy to grow more vs. grow less regardless of what other economies do. An exception may occur if one has high explicit career exposure to another country's economy, but this is not the case with a large, diversified sample size.

I guess this is veering off into PPB material, but I take exception to your underlying assumption that GNP is any kind of good measure of anything. I think growth only does you good when it is relative to your competitors. In the 3% vs. 5% pick, we are getting beat by 2%. That extra 1% per year will compound over time and add up to a Japanese (or Chinese) economy that is FAR larger than ours, granting them all kinds of power over our destiny. In addition, if Our GDP averages 3% growth per year it probably means our population is growing at about 2% per year - which would suck. I would rather see ZPG over time.

Wheat/"/"/"
09-18-2009, 01:36 PM
"What do Dean Smith, Roy Williams, and Coach K all have in common?" (Oh boy, here we go, I think to myself). "What?" I answer. "They all have winning records in Cameron."


I really don't want to be here seen as defending UNC fans that are...um...bad.
You know, those that venture past good natured fun and into just plain snotty and mean territory. I know they can be hard to take.

As for the joke and in home experience...
A few more Duke wins would nip that sort of outlandish trash talking behavior in the bud, right? ;)

We can't be surprised with a comment like that from a UNC Booster in his own home, to a known Duke fan he obvioulsy likes, or wouldn't have an invite in the first place, right?

Something like that could easily happen in a Duke fans home with one of the many Dean jokes.

Some fans, like Throaty, are just way more sensitive about this topic than I am.

It's a rivalry, man!

I'm more like MJ in the sense that I would use jokes/comments like that as motivation, and come back with my own pro-Duke slanted comeback, all in good spirit of course.
The essence of being a rival is competition, after all.

But then agan, I recognize I'm also like MJ in the sense that sometimes I may not be the most tactful guy around.

Maybe my wife is right, I could stand to be more sensitive, and not so damn competitive all the time :)

Faison1
09-18-2009, 04:54 PM
I'm more like MJ in the sense that I would use jokes/comments like that as motivation, and come back with my own pro-Duke slanted comeback, all in good spirit of course.
The essence of being a rival is competition, after all.

You have a nice way of putting things, Wheat. I like you 90% of the time.

captmojo
09-20-2009, 04:15 PM
I consider an altogether different analogy.
What would be your preferred method of death, Sir?:confused:
Are you still beating your wife? :confused:
In either optioned scenario, Duke comes out the loser. :mad:
Bad poll. Bad. Bad.
I agree with TB, in that I hope it never comes down to it.
I can't bring myself to cast a vote.

speedevil2001
09-20-2009, 04:18 PM
i prefer duke to win. i dont care about unc.