FB: Kansas 44, Duke 19

[Devilsfan]

FWIW. I would still start Thad next week.

[gep]

As I just posted on the Duke/Army thread... I would start whomever Coach Cut tells me to:D

GO DUKE!!!!!!

[Sixthman]

FWIW. I would still start Thad next week.

I'm interested in why you feel this way. I've seen every snap of both games, and Thad's on the field execution could not grade out well by any standard i know of. I've said on this board that I thought Thad had the chance to be the best QB in the ACC this season. I thought that with an off season to learn the new plays, and to learn from Cutcliff, along with his talent (which is obviously substantial), he would look a lot better than previous years. i was wrong. After two games, he clearly does not look improved. IMO Army would be in the loss column if Thad had played the whole game. There may be factors the fan can't see. Thad's leadership is a positive, maybe Sean Renfree doesn't know the playbook as well as Thad, whatever . . . I would still start Sean next week.

[wolfpackdevil]

Thad has worked his butt off in his career here at Duke, but Renfree is the better quarterback for this team.

Duke looked horrible while Thad was in their yesterday. Their offense looked so much better in the late second half.

Sean Renfree should be the new quarterback for Duke, (if were trying to win games.)

[CameronBornAndBred]

I think it will be Thad. I'll be happy with whoever goes out there, and my guess is practice will tell the tale this week.
The best thing is, regardless of who starts, there will be a guy on the sidelines who has game experience and has led the team to a win.

[PDDuke85]

Against a good Kansas team, playing in their yard, and with our inexperienced O line, I start Lewis. Let him establish a rhythm with short quick routes and see if he can produce. That said, I would have young John Unitas (19) heavily involved with the first team offense in practice as well.

[formerdukeathlete]

This season also counts as one of Renfree's 4 and i understand the staff is aware that we may only have Renfree for 3 seasons before he goes pro a year early like Dave Brown. We better take advantage of Renfree now. I dont know a single person close to the Program as in watching the spring game, scrimmages, and now the first two games in person, who thinks Lewis is the better qb. After the embarrassing Richmond loss, and Lewis not reading defensive schemes per Cut, which Lewis missed reading again (blitzes) in the Army game, if Cut starts Lewis versus Kansas and Lewis faulters again, when so many folks think Renfree is better, thats substantial downside for Cut. Not where I want to see Cut when we are trying to build a Program, raise money, land top recruits nationally. There is little downside in starting Renfree.

[sagegrouse]

I suspect Sean's on his way to being the starting QB, if he continues to perform well. The question is how Cut handles it. I suspect both will play substantial number of plays against Kansas. I don't know who will start.

sagegrouse

[Devilsfan]

I think Thad has earned the right to start at Kansas. He has taken so many hits over the years but still straps his helmut on and goes out there. I don't know quite frankly if I would be that brave. If he can have a good start to the game on Sat. the team will respond. If not there now seems to be another option.

[throatybeard]

I think Thad has earned the right to start at Kansas. He has taken so many hits over the years but still straps his helmut on and goes out there.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Helmut_Kohl.jpg

[6th Man]

I think Sean earned the right to start. I don't think we win that game if Thad stayed in. I want Duke to win football games and I think Sean gives us the best chance. I have been at scrimmages, the Richmond game and watched the entire Army game on TV. It is overwhelming to me how much Renfree looks like the better QB. I understand it is Thad's senior year, but Sean has played better. The better QB should play. The team deserves that, the fans deserve that, and Sean Renfree earned his start against Kansas.

[Indoor66]

I think Sean earned the right to start. I don't think we win that game if Thad stayed in. I want Duke to win football games and I think Sean gives us the best chance. I have been at scrimmages, the Richmond game and watched the entire Army game on TV. It is overwhelming to me how much Renfree looks like the better QB. I understand it is Thad's senior year, but Sean has played better. The better QB should play. The team deserves that, the fans deserve that, and Sean Renfree earned his start against Kansas.

I completely agree with you. Sports is (or should be) a meritocracy. The best player plays every time. Sentimentality for seniors should be reserved for old age.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6b/Helmut_Kohl.jpg
That's toooooo funny. Wacky Germans.

[Wander]

I think Thad has earned the right to start at Kansas.

The one and only way you earn the right to start is by being the best player at your position and unless everything I saw yesterday was some sort of fluke, that description does not fit Lewis right now.

I'm OK with Lewis playing and even running the first drive or two, but Renfree should get most of the snaps.

[DU82]

This season also counts as one of Renfree's 4 and i understand the staff is aware that we may only have Renfree for 3 seasons before he goes pro a year early like Dave Brown. We better take advantage of Renfree now. I dont know a single person close to the Program as in watching the spring game, scrimmages, and now the first two games in person, who thinks Lewis is the better qb. After the embarrassing Richmond loss, and Lewis not reading defensive schemes per Cut, which Lewis missed reading again (blitzes) in the Army game, if Cut starts Lewis versus Kansas and Lewis faulters again, when so many folks think Renfree is better, thats substantial downside for Cut. Not where I want to see Cut when we are trying to build a Program, raise money, land top recruits nationally. There is little downside in starting Renfree.

After finally seeing what we've been saying for so long (put in the taller QB), I will have to disagree with you on this one. I think Lewis starts against the Jayhawks. Especially listening to Cut in interviews after the game yesterday. I don't think you pull a four year starter after two games. However, I think Cut has a quicker hook than in the past.

I don't think there's the downside for Cut. If he starts Lewis, it says that you don't lose your starting position for a bad outing, but you still have to perform (and shows it by putting in Renfree.)

If it's clear that we're not going bowling (it may be realistic right now, but not an absolute) I think Renfree replaces Lewis as the starter (other than perhaps the last home game.) It's the same thing Coach K did when he put in the four freshmen starters in 1983, and basically told the seniors (Tissaw, Emma Engleland) that the team has to move on and give the other guys experience.

[Wander]

If it's clear that we're not going bowling (it may be realistic right now, but not an absolute) I think Renfree replaces Lewis as the starter (other than perhaps the last home game.)

There's no need to consider the issue of giving a first-year guy experience at the expense of short-term benefits - playing Renfree appears to be the best decision for both the present and the future.

[A-Tex Devil]

I still need to watch the second half, but if the stat line resembles reality, I think you have to start Renfree - or at least give him significant time early. I appreciate that upper class players at all positions have bled for this program, and I applaud them. But if there are better players below them, the better players should start. In college football, everyone's position should be in jeopardy if there is potentially someone behind them that can do a better job. Seniority should only mean something if it's one of the factors that make you a better player than those you are competing against for a job.

[DU82]

There's no need to consider the issue of giving a first-year guy experience at the expense of short-term benefits - playing Renfree appears to be the best decision for both the present and the future.

I don't disagree that Renfree looks like the better overall QB, you can look at the archives to see that FDA and I were about the only ones talking about alternative QBs for the past couple of seasons. As it turns out, Azack wasn't the answer (clearly shown at Clemson and VT) but Lewis's deficiencies outweigh his positives compared to what we've seen of Renfree so far.(and he definitely has many positives, none of what I've written now or in the past questions his dedication and that he was the best for the position in the past.)

But remember that we're talking about half a game. If we base things on that, perhaps the Cowboys should bring back Clint Longley. (And no, that's all I want to see from that comparison, I don't expect to see Renfree sucker punch Thad in the locker room any time soon.)

[Kewlswim]

Hello,

If Duke wins would this would be the first time Duke beat a ranked team since when? Winning sounds good to me, I have confidence that Coach Cut will put in the right QB. Here's to peace of mind for Coach Cut making the tough and right decisions. :)

Thanks

GO DUKE!

[DownEastDevil]

Here is the answer to the question you are waiting for:
Not my preference but I'm not being paid to coach.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_football/story/5992375/

[FireOgilvie]

Here is the answer to the question you are waiting for:
Not my preference but I'm not being paid to coach.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_football/story/5992375/

I'm not surprised at all by this. Cut has said over and over again that Lewis is his QB, and I don't think one good half by Renfree takes that away. I wouldn't be surprised if Renfree is starting later in the season though. I would prefer to see both of them in the KU game.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanks. Glad to hear it laid to rest early. It won't surprise me when we see Renfree during the game, Cutcliffe will be using him plenty this year. I watched the game again today, and while Renfree had the two TD's and more yardage, there is lots behind why Thad's stats weren't equal. Renfree ran many more series than just the two he scored on, and they did not produce points. Both QB's are valuable assets to have, neither is infallable.

[DU82]

I'm not surprised at all by this. Cut has said over and over again that Lewis is his QB, and I don't think one good half by Renfree takes that away. I wouldn't be surprised if Renfree is starting later in the season though. I would prefer to see both of them in the KU game.

If our running game continues to struggle, I think Renfree is the best answer for a passing offense. If Renfree does become the starter, I could see Thad come in for "Wildcat" plays. (Similar to what Azack did last year a couple of times.)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Cutcliffe said that the roles may change. I'm glad to see he throws that out there as well. I have no doubt he will play the one he feels deserves the start.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Cutcliffe said that the roles may change. I'm glad to see he throws that out there as well. I have no doubt he will play the one he feels deserves the start.

And he may have some new schemes we (and our opponents) haven't seen yet!

[RelativeWays]

I think this is the right thing to do if you're Coach Cut. Thad has to know the pressure he's under but he also needs to feel that trust that Cut is going to back him up and at least give him a shot. Sean will be there if things go bad, but honestly, I don't see us beating KU at Lawrence. They destroyed UTEP and if Renfree may be our guy this year, well I'd rather he not get blasted by the Jayhawks. I don't want to send Thad out to die either, but he's been through this. Give Thad a shot, if he doesn't produce, go with Sean. I'm more concerned about our secondary as KU likes to throw and put points on the board.

[roywhite]

I see on goduke.com that our game is scheduled for noon ET on Versus network. Is this accurate; is it possible any local NC channels would pick this up.

Great that we're getting more TV coverage; unfortunately Versus (which carries Tour de France, and NHL Hockey among other things) has been fighting with DirecTV (about money, no doubt) and is not currently on the DirecTV menu. So, not good for DirecTV users like myself, I guess?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I see on goduke.com that our game is scheduled for noon ET on Versus network. Is this accurate; is it possible any local NC channels would pick this up.

Great that we're getting more TV coverage; unfortunately Versus (which carries Tour de France, and NHL Hockey among other things) has been fighting with DirecTV (about money, no doubt) and is not currently on the DirecTV menu. So, not good for DirecTV users like myself, I guess?
I was gonna post that I have it...but here is what I see instead..
"Comcast, our largest competitor, has forced us to pull down this channel. Comcast charges us fees to air Versus, and they are now demanding an unfair and outrageous increase in those fees. In these difficult economic times, we do not want to pass this increase on to you, our valued customer, so we are standing firm in the negotiations on your behalf."

Geeee, thanks. Bright side, I'll be in Durham watching the game at a crazie party.

[crimsonandblue]

I know some Texas folks were upset with the Versus - DTV dispute that affected their ability to see the UT-Wyoming game yesterday.

There's occasionally someone streaming Kansas games in situations like this. If I see anything, I'll post a link. Every once in a while, having TimeWarner cable doesn't totally suck.

Any Duke fans entertaining the notion of attending, let me know and I can give a rundown on places to hit pre- and post-game.

I'll be one of the idiots drinking at the Wheel (http://www.lawrence.com/places/the_wheel/) starting around 8 am.

[Wander]

I'm not surprised at all by this. Cut has said over and over again that Lewis is his QB, and I don't think one good half by Renfree takes that away.

"One good half" is one way to look at it; "100% of Renfree's career so far" is another. It's not like, say, referencing that Asack had a good game years ago as a freshman vs Clemson, when there are many more instances of him playing poorly more recently - everything we've seen in this very young season has pointed to Renfree being the better choice at QB.

I'm OK with starting Lewis, but I think it'd be a bad decision not to give Renfree at least half the snaps.

[jv001]

"One good half" is one way to look at it; "100% of Renfree's career so far" is another. It's not like, say, referencing that Asack had a good game years ago as a freshman vs Clemson, when there are many more instances of him playing poorly more recently - everything we've seen in this very young season has pointed to Renfree being the better choice at QB.

I'm OK with starting Lewis, but I think it'd be a bad decision not to give Renfree at least half the snaps.

that Thad is a bad QB but Renfree is a better one. However Cut sees them in practice and knows what can be expected of them. He did not hesitate to pull the trigger in replacing Thad last week and I don't think he will hesitate this week as well. My concern is the OL and how much protection they can give either QB. They have not opened up any holes of our RBs and that brings a lot of pressure on the QB. With that being said, I can see how Cut would start Thad. Thad has played under that kind of pressure from the defense and may be our best bet. If the OL was better, I think we would be see Renfree under center this week. Go Duke!

[jafarr1]

"One good half" is one way to look at it; "100% of Renfree's career so far" is another. It's not like, say, referencing that Asack had a good game years ago as a freshman vs Clemson, when there are many more instances of him playing poorly more recently - everything we've seen in this very young season has pointed to Renfree being the better choice at QB.

I'm OK with starting Lewis, but I think it'd be a bad decision not to give Renfree at least half the snaps.

It's not even one good half, though. Renfree came in and threw a short pass on a good play call and led one good drive that culminated when Army completely blew their coverage on Varner. Neither of Renfree's TD passes were all that difficult.

I like what I saw of Renfree, but I'm not sure how much can be learned from his time against Army. It could be indicative of Renfree being ready, or it could just have been the right move at the right time.

FWIW, here are some quotes (http://espn.go.com/blog/acc/post/_/id/3535/dukes-cutcliffe-not-looking-for-quarterback-controversy) from Cutcliffe talking about the situation:

“We’ve got to get Thad on track,” Cutcliffe said. “He’s just missed practice a bunch. He threw about half the balls that Sean threw during training camp. He didn’t get a lot of work and I think it’s showing a little bit. We’ve got to get him back in rhythm, back feeling comfortable back there and he will.”

...

“It’s like any position, you’ve got to perform, you’ve got to do well,” Cutcliffe said. “Thad knows that. He doesn’t run from pressure. He’s been in pressure situations his whole career and he’s had tremendous success as you look at his numbers throughout his career, and I expect to see more of the same. I just want to see a high level of performance.

“I think Sean Renfree is a really well-prepared young player. If I thought he was ahead of Thad right now, he would have a chance at being our starter if I thought it was in the best interest of our team, but right now, total package, he’s not quite ready for that. But as he continues to groom and grow, the roles could change. We’ll just have to see as we go through. But we’re not trying to start a quarterback controversy and they know that.”

[Wander]

It's not even one good half, though. Renfree came in and threw a short pass on a good play call and led one good drive that culminated when Army completely blew their coverage on Varner. Neither of Renfree's TD passes were all that difficult.

I don't agree. I thought his 2nd TD pass was awesome.

Coach can say he doesn't want to start a quarterback controversy all he wants, but when your starting QB plays poorly and then your backup QB comes in and plays basically perfectly to win you the game (admittedly, against a pretty bad team), that's what you're going to have whether you like it or not.

Considering that Thad was been quite good over the last few years and Renfree only has a 1 game sample size, I'm open to the possibility that the Army game was something of a fluke. I just want Renfree to get a lot of snaps against Kansas so we can confirm or deny that possibility ASAP.

[CameronBornAndBred]

... your backup QB comes in and plays basically perfectly...
He didn't play almost perfectly. He played well behind a much better composed offensive line. He led 2 scoring drives, but if you watch the game, I say Thad led three. One was negated by a missed kick, and one was negated by a fumble (not his, although he did have one). The rest of Renfree's series all ended in punts.

[Wander]

He didn't play almost perfectly. He played well behind a much better composed offensive line. He led 2 scoring drives, but if you watch the game, I say Thad led three. One was negated by a missed kick, and one was negated by a fumble (not his, although he did have one). The rest of Renfree's series all ended in punts.

We can agree to disagree here because there's no easy objective way to measure how well an offensive line plays, but I thought the O-line was consistently awful throughout the entire game. As you (correctly) say, it isn't Thad's fault that we missed an easy field goal, but it also isn't Renfree's fault that our running game was mediocre at best and made some of his drives end in punts.

I hate to be put in a position where I have to argue against Thad, because I love him for being one of the few bright spots on our team the past three years. For me, it's completely a case of being impressed by Renfree, rather than disappointed by Lewis.

[sagegrouse]

I got no complaints. Thad has been a three-year starter ans was 2nd team All-ACC last year IIRC. He shouldn't be benched because his sub got a couple of TDs in the second half of one game.

But I am sure we see Sean sometime in the Jayhawk game.

sagegrouse

[CameronBornAndBred]

For me, it's completely a case of being impressed by Renfree, rather than disappointed by Lewis.
Which in the end is a pretty cool situation to have. So often we have had to choose between the lesser of two evils. No matter who is in there on Saturday, from what we have seen we are in good hands.

[Newton_14]

I take Coach at his word that Sean is not ready yet to be the starter. It is the best information we have to go on. He played well Saturday, and took advantage of the situation he was put in. I feel he is going to be a really good player and some of that will happen this year.

On the other hand, we now know that Thad was one of the kids that had the Swine Flu and it caused him to miss time in August. As Coach puts it, Thad got in about half the throws that Sean did, and all of that has added up to a slow start.

I think it's right to go with Thad as the starter while continuing to play Sean as well. Once we get to conference play I expect the better QB will be getting the majority of the snaps with a very capable back up on the sidelines should he be needed.. It's a great situation to be in. I am rooting for both of them to raise their play to a high level and help this team win ballgames..

[throatybeard]

Kansas is a 21.5 pt favorite in the first line I saw.

[roywhite]

Kansas is a 21.5 pt favorite in the first line I saw.

Yeah, I've seen 22 points; seems like that's too much. Duke is an underdog, but it should be a competitive contest.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Kansas is a 21.5 pt favorite in the first line I saw.
Wow, I'd put money down for Duke to beat that.

[Indoor66]

Wow, I'd put money down for Duke to beat that.

I love Duke, but I think you will lose that bet....:(

[Duke84Blue]

"Renfree ran many more series than just the two he scored on, and they did not produce points."

Just to be clear, Renfree led a total of 4 series - the first two resulting in TDs and the last two resulting in 3 and outs when the play calling went extremely conservative while preserving an 8 point lead. (run, run, pass on 3rd and long, punt and then run, run, run, punt). So, I would not consider two additional series as "many more". On the flip side, Lewis led 10 total drives.

With that said, I trust Coach Cut...this is a very difficult situation with a lot more to consider than just a bunch of stats. So, I put my faith in the coach and we'll see how it goes.

[jafarr1]

Renfree really only "ran" one drive. He made a single nice short pass on a nice play call on a short field and the first drive was done.

His second TD was a long pass to a receiver that could only have been more open if all 11 defenders tripped and fell down when the ball was snapped.

SR also had no opportunity to get nervous, as the Navy fumble happened and suddenly he was in there and had a TD under his belt. What would happen if he was declared the starter and had a week to think about it? Might be a different animal.

There is, of course, a flip side to the flip side. Renfree looked good; nobody's denying that. It's a tough call to make, especially with Lewis missing a fair bit of practice between his ankle and H1N1.

IMO, it's tough to argue against either player starting. I'm happy to leave this one to the coaches.

[magnus]

My wife (Trinity '01) and I (Trinity '00) live in KC and are incredibly excited to be going to the game Saturday. Anyone else going to be there? We might be tailgating beforehand if any dukies want to join us. We are long time lurkers (going back to the parquet background days). If anyone wants to go but doesn't have tickets yet, send me a PM. I'll give you a good deal on the tickets I got through the Duke Alumni Association. We ended up getting tickets from my company too, so we have two extras.

[CameronBornAndBred]

My wife (Trinity '01) and I (Trinity '00) live in KC and are incredibly excited to be going to the game Saturday. Anyone else going to be there? We might be tailgating beforehand if any dukies want to join us. We are long time lurkers (going back to the parquet background days). If anyone wants to go but doesn't have tickets yet, send me a PM. I'll give you a good deal on the tickets I got through the Duke Alumni Association. We ended up getting tickets from my company too, so we have two extras.
DukieInKansas will be there. (Big shock with that name, huh?). Send her a PM, I don't know what her game day plans are. Have a blast!

[Bob Green]

According to this article:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/16/duke-strikes-nerve/?sports

Kansas fans will be booing Duke on Saturday because they dislike Coach K.

[wolfpackdevil]

38-21 Kansas.

I think Duke will play a good game, but Kansas's offense is way to poweful, and Duke will not be able to keep up.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Well, we all know that you can't win if your quarterback is too short. So things are looking great for this Saturday's game as Todd Reesing is only 5'11". He can barely see over his front line, they let him stand on their shoulders.
When he was recruited, only 2 schools offered him a scholarship...Kansas and Duke. Here is an article from 2005 that muses what a shrimpy QB might be able to do for the Jayhawks...I'd say he's done pretty well.
http://www.kansan.com/stories/2005/nov/30/reesing_profile/

[OldPhiKap]

According to this article:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/16/duke-strikes-nerve/?sports

Kansas fans will be booing Duke on Saturday because they dislike Coach K.

I kind of feel sorry for the guy/gal who wrote that. Yikes.

[crimsonandblue]

According to this article:

http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/16/duke-strikes-nerve/?sports

Kansas fans will be booing Duke on Saturday because they dislike Coach K.

Well Keegan is a goof. We'll boo because we boo every opponent. We might boo a little more lustily because we dislike Duke. Most of that dislike stems from the hoops side of things (losing twice in 1986 for me). K is a part of that, I guess, but not a big part. Mostly, Keegan is a goof. The Lawrence paper isn't all that great, and yet...


Well, we all know that you can't win if your quarterback is too short. So things are looking great for this Saturday's game as Todd Reesing is only 5'11". He can barely see over his front line, they let him stand on their shoulders.
When he was recruited, only 2 schools offered him a scholarship...Kansas and Duke. Here is an article from 2005 that muses what a shrimpy QB might be able to do for the Jayhawks...I'd say he's done pretty well.
http://www.kansan.com/stories/2005/nov/30/reesing_profile/

Although the Lawrence paper and football beat writer are pretty uneven, this was a pretty interesting article on Reesing ("Being Reesing") (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2009/sep/12/being-reesing-curious-glamorous-wacky-and-utterly-/)that kind of bookends the piece linked by CB&B above. He's just a fantastic college kid.

[throatybeard]

Just saw a graphic on this ESPN telecast of the Miami-GT trainwreck. KU is just 3-16 against ACC opponents. (Not that we're of average ACC strength, but it was interesting).

[Bob Green]

Jeff Sagarin's rankings are also interesting:

http://www.kiva.net/~jsagarin/sports/cfsend.htm

Kansas is #56 and Duke is #71, while Richmond is #51. So from Sagarin's perspective, Kansas will not be the toughest opponent we've faced so far this young season.

[crimsonandblue]

Just saw a graphic on this ESPN telecast of the Miami-GT trainwreck. KU is just 3-16 against ACC opponents. (Not that we're of average ACC strength, but it was interesting).

More to the point, this is not your average KU team and KU hasn't played many ACC games in the Mangino era (other quick note, Mangino will become our second winningest coach of all time with his next win - another testament to past ineptitude). From recent football notes:

KU VS. THE ACC — Kansas owns a 3-16 record against current members of the Atlantic Coast Conference with a 1-0 mark against Virginia Tech, 2-5 vs. Florida State, 0-1 vs. Georgia Tech, 0-2 vs. North Carolina, 0-2 vs. North Carolina State, 0-2 vs. Virginia and 0-4 vs. Miami. The last time KU played an ACC team was when the Jayhawks defeated league champion No. 5 Virginia Tech 24-21 in the 2008 Orange Bowl. The last time KU hosted an ACC team was a 50-10 loss to then No. 15 Virginia in 1990.
KU’s Most Recent Games vs. ACC
2008 – W 24-21 vs. No. 5 Virginia Tech in the Orange Bowl
2003 – L 26-56 vs. North Carolina State in the Tangerine Bowl
1993 – L 0-42 vs. No. 1 Florida State in Kickoff Classic at East Rutherford, N.J.
1991 – L 19-31 at Virginia, last game KU played against an ACC opponent on campus
1990 – L 10-50 vs. No. 15 Virginia, last time KU hosted an ACC team in Lawrence

And Bob, Sagarin? Two games into the season? Kansas will be the best team you've played. Duke will the best team Kansas has played. Should be fun.

[OldPhiKap]

And Bob, Sagarin? Two games into the season? Kansas will be the best team you've played. Duke will the best team Kansas has played. Should be fun.

Sagarin has Florida at #11 and the third-best team in the SEC. 'nuf said.

To the extent these types of ratings matter, they are pretty sketchy until there are enough games for them to become connected.

[crimsonandblue]

For those with DirecTV who don't get Versus, tomorrow, you might check either www.channelsurfing.net or www.justin.tv and see if the game is up there to watch online. It's been mentioned on a KU board that our UTEP game was on channelsurfing.net. In the past, justin.tv has had a ton of hoops games from local carriers that I've watched.

[throatybeard]

Well yeah, it's early, but Florida is 11th in Sag because their OOC scheduling thus far this year has been nothing short of shameless. OSU is playing SoCal, Washington is playing LSU, Georgia is playing OK State, Tennessee is playing UCLA.

And Florida is playing Troy and...Charleston Southern?

Expect UF's Sagarin to rise when the start playing league games.

[Wander]

Well yeah, it's early, but Florida is 11th in Sag because their OOC scheduling thus far this year has been nothing short of shameless. OSU is playing SoCal, Washington is playing LSU, Georgia is playing OK State, Tennessee is playing UCLA.

And Florida is playing Troy and...Charleston Southern?

Expect UF's Sagarin to rise when the start playing league games.

I was wondering the other day if Florida may have hurt itself with scheduling in the event that they get upset somewhere and are trying to contend as a 1 loss team for the title game with say an undefeated BYU team (keeping in mind they miss Alabama and Ole Miss on the schedule).

[DukeVu]

If Thad is so awesome, why is Kansas a 22 1/2 point favorite? As far as I can see Kansas has an outstanding and proven QB and receivers and that is why they are favored over Duke. Duke has some very good receivers in their own right but a questionable QB. While Thad has produced some statistics, Reising has produced Wins. I appreciate Lewis and pull for him as hard as anyone but something has caused the odds-makers, who do not make odds for the fun of it, to see a big gap here. I hope the OM's are wrong and Cutcliffe sees something that most of us do not.

Duke has lost one game that they should have won because Duke went 3-14 on third down and two of those inside the twenty-yd line. A second game that was a tossup, where the starting seasoned QB went like 5 for 16. Both
QBs had the SAME offensive line. If Thad was hurt or out of shape or sick he should never have played so long in the Richmond game. I will root hard for Lewis Saturday, but I hope our chances are not lost on bad judgment. I feel the same way about Holt and Lederman, if they can't block and there are better but less experienced Off Linemen, then I say 'let them play'. Did you see Miami's YOUNG QB? And Sou. Cal's Freshman QB. Just saying- - - 'I like giving yourself a chance'.

[OldPhiKap]

If Thad is so awesome, why is Kansas a 22 1/2 point favorite? As far as I can see Kansas has an outstanding and proven QB and receivers and that is why they are favored over Duke. Duke has some very good receivers in their own right but a questionable QB. While Thad has produced some statistics, Reising has produced Wins. I appreciate Lewis and pull for him as hard as anyone but something has caused the odds-makers, who do not make odds for the fun of it, to see a big gap here. I hope the OM's are wrong and Cutcliffe sees something that most of us do not.

Duke has lost one game that they should have won because Duke went 3-14 on third down and two of those inside the twenty-yd line. A second game that was a tossup, where the starting seasoned QB went like 5 for 16. Both
QBs had the SAME offensive line. If Thad was hurt or out of shape or sick he should never have played so long in the Richmond game. I will root hard for Lewis Saturday, but I hope our chances are not lost on bad judgment. I feel the same way about Holt and Lederman, if they can't block and there are better but less experienced Off Linemen, then I say 'let them play'. Did you see Miami's YOUNG QB? And Sou. Cal's Freshman QB. Just saying- - - 'I like giving yourself a chance'.

Are you suggesting that the line would be different if, instead of having a senior QB with 50 or so career TD passes, we started a freshman with about a half of a game's experience? Not to get drawn into the QB debate -- I'll defer to Cut -- but I don't think Vegas gives a rat's behind about who we are starting when the line is set and marked.

Kansas has looked damn good. Our offensive line has not. Kansas is ranked just ahead of Georgia, which is light years ahead of where I think we are. We are playing in Lawrence. We haven't beaten a top-25 team in a couple of dog's years.

I'm rooting harder than anyone, but the line is fair. And unrelated to the QB IMH(and uninformed)O.

[Wander]

If Thad is so awesome, why is Kansas a 22 1/2 point favorite?

Pretty simple explanation. Kansas is better at almost everything. That doesn't mean our quarterbacks aren't very good - it's mostly the other positions that cause the 22 point gap.

[duketaylor]

Is anyone covering this game on tv? I might to a local sports bar to catch it tomorrow. Thanks in advance.

[Bob Green]

Here is an entertaining article from Jason Whitlock, about Quarterbacks, at the Kansas City Star:

http://www.kansascity.com/166/story/1452868.html

Jason wonders what he'll write about after the game so here's hoping he can write an article on Thad Lewis and Sean Renfree.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Is anyone covering this game on tv? I might to a local sports bar to catch it tomorrow. Thanks in advance.

Versus Network (VS) formerly Outdoor Network will carry the game.

[diveonthefloor]

Looks like Justin TV will stream the game.
http://www.justin.tv/sticktv_lives

[ArnieMc]

Thad - 21 yard run after a 66 yard pass. Looks great on Versus HD.

[4decadedukie]

With 13.5 remaining in the second quarter, we are tied 7 - 7. More important, it appear to me that we are plying without intimidation. KU is Big Twelve and ranked (albeit 22 or 23), but our offense and defense are "playing with them." Win or lose, try to imagine this three or four years ago, GO BLUE DEVILS.

[SharkD]

That sack against Renfree looked like a painful collapse of the OL.

[Duvall]

That sack against Renfree looked like a painful collapse of the OL.

The first three games of the season looked like a painful collapse of the OL.

[FireOgilvie]

After watching Renfree vs. Thad again, I really hope Renfree ends up winning the job. Thad can't hit his targets in motion and he throws bullets, while Renfree has a great soft pass that is almost always on target.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I don't really have a horse in the Thad should play or not play, I just want Duke to win. However, after the touchdown, my goodness Thad has a great smile. Made me happy. I know that comment has nothing to do with football prowess or anything.

GO DUKE!

[6th Man]

Thad missed 2 open receivers on the next to last drive that gave Kansas time to go down and score. Should have been first down and run some more time off. Geeze!

[FireOgilvie]

This isn't going well. I hope Re'quan is okay.


http://scoringathome.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/20081105babymangino.jpg

[6th Man]

You da man FireOgilvie! That is hilarious and scary at the same time.

[YourLandlord]

That was an embarrassing pass by Lewis.

WIDE OPEN for a TD and he over throws it. Awful awful.

[CDu]

One of the announcers keeps saying that Oghobaase needs to step up and make some plays. I'm pretty sure Oghobaase isn't playing today (I haven't seen him yet). You'd think they'd pick up on that, right? Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong about Oghobaase not playing.

[YourLandlord]

Unless we see some drastic improvement, I don't see this team winning a game the rest of the year (besides the nccu game).

2 win season...better than 0 I guess.

[VaDukie]

Unless we see some drastic improvement, I don't see this team winning a game the rest of the year (besides the nccu game).

2 win season...better than 0 I guess.

Remember that this is a top 25 team on the road. It's discouraging, but this is a very good Kansas team.

[Duvall]

Unless we see some drastic improvement, I don't see this team winning a game the rest of the year (besides the nccu game).

2 win season...better than 0 I guess.

You are dramatically overestimating the quality of Duke's future opponents. Virginia and Maryland have looked pretty bad.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Rebuilding is not for the fainthearted.

[Indoor66]

As of this moment, we are beating the spread!

[Greg_Newton]

What a pass by Sean. I feel kind of bad for him, he looks exhausted. He's either getting hit or flushed out of the pocket on virtually every play, but he's hanging in there. Gotta respect that.

Yikes. Looks like one of those hits got to him, the trainer is working on his right rib cage and he looks like he's in pain. We really need our o-line/running game to step up at some point to give him a fighting chance.

[FireOgilvie]

Looks like Renfree hurt himself a little bit.

Thad looks off today.

We might have the worst rushing game of any team I've ever followed.

[dukeENG2003]

105 rushing yards and 3.3 YPC certainly isn't great, but it isn't THAT bad. Its an improvement over Richmond for sure. I'm not sure calling this the worst rushing team ever is really fair.

The biggest thing today was 3rd down.

Lets all remember, if we thought anything other than this was going to happen today, we were way too optimistic. Kansas is a really good football team. Kansas would win the ACC IMO. I still see us winning against UVA, Wake, Maryland, and NCCU to get to 5 wins. Maybe we steal another one somehow to make a bowl, who knows. This season is far from over. If you had this game marked on your calendar as a win, you were crazy.

[FireOgilvie]

105 rushing yards and 3.3 YPC certainly isn't great, but it isn't THAT bad. Its an improvement over Richmond for sure. I'm not sure calling this the worst rushing team ever is really fair.



Well, coming into the game we were ranked 115th out of 120 schools in rushing yards per game (44.5/game, 0 TDs). Also, that was playing a Div 1-AA team and Army. QBs accounted for 30 percent of our rushing yards today, mostly on Thad's one TD run. I'm glad we did better today, but considering how often we had the ball, 100 yards is pretty bad.

Thad just drilled the ref in the head with the ball... and then throws an interception.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

We looked better than I expected. Though the idea of a bowl seems hard to believe. I hope so, but it I don't see it right now. :(

I don't understand how Coach Tedford at Cal could have turned things around so darn quickly though. What did he do that Coach Cut isn't doing????

GO DUKE!

[FireOgilvie]

Hi,

We looked better than I expected. Though the idea of a bowl seems hard to believe. I hope so, but it I don't see it right now. :(

I don't understand how Coach Tedford at Cal could have turned things around so darn quickly though. What did he do that Coach Cut isn't doing????

GO DUKE!

It's much easier to turn around programs at big state schools with good histories. Duke has been so bad for so long, that when combined with the size of the school and the tough academics, it makes it harder.

Cal looked great today; Jahvid best is a beast (5 TDs).

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Hi,

We looked better than I expected. Though the idea of a bowl seems hard to believe. I hope so, but it I don't see it right now. :(

I don't understand how Coach Tedford at Cal could have turned things around so darn quickly though. What did he do that Coach Cut isn't doing????

GO DUKE!

Coach Cutcliffe is contenting with the results of decades of neglect. Don't forget that Duke was the laughingstock of Division I for years with the terrible losing streak that wouldn't quit. I can't remember any other program that was allowed to slide from a national powerhouse to the bottom of Division I like this.


The team's precision of execution is now light years ahead of the previous decade's teams. This stretch is the toughest part of the rebuild.

[Kewlswim]

Coach Cutcliffe is contenting with the results of decades of neglect. Don't forget that Duke was the laughingstock of Division I for years with the terrible losing streak that wouldn't quit. I can't remember any other program that was allowed to slide from a national powerhouse to the bottom of Division I like this.


The team's precision of execution is now light years ahead of the previous decade's teams. This stretch is the toughest part of the rebuild.

Thus, if you look at things that way Duke has a lot farther to go than Cal did. The coach before Tedford was known as a good recruiter, so I think there were players for the current Cal coach to work with.

GO DUKE!

[RelativeWays]

You can be as terrible and negligent about football as Duke was, have one mediocre season and declare the corner has been turned. Duke has a long way to go and this season is showing it. Coach Cut may have more actual talent on this team than last year but they're young, inexperienced and they don't know how to win yet. Our veteran leaders, namely Lewis and Boyette are having lackluster starts to the season so the younger guys are having to pick up some slack. The o line is pretty bad, the rushing attack is terrible, this team has a lot to improve on.

However, the bottom half of our schedule is winnable depending on health and improvement. We have legit shots to beat UMD, UVA and Wake, there is always the opportunity to surprise State and UNC. The team has to play every game as well as it can and try to get better.

[Kewlswim]

Even if the team is not very good, I think that it is important that the Coach exude confidence. He is a leader too.

GO DUKE!

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

In a game where one is a decided underdog, don't you want to shorten the game rather than play fast and extend it?

GO DUKE!!

[Greg_Newton]

IMO, the next 2-3 games are going to be huge. In most of the first half, Duke at least looked like they belonged in the game (which is certainly a step up from the past decade). Near the end of the game though, they started to look a little too much like the old Dukes teams... just deflated and physically overmatched in every aspect of the game (i.e. on KU's last drive when standard screen passes would lead to 30 yards gains where defenders would just get bulled over). It's important the guys continue to play with pride and continue to believe they're part of something important, rather than hanging their heads and resigning themselves to "just another joke of a Duke football team."

As a previous poster noted, the overall execution does seem sharper than in the past... now we just need to maintain the right attitude until the talent and experience catch up.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

IMO, the next 2-3 games are going to be huge. In most of the first half, Duke at least looked like they belonged in the game (which is certainly a step up from the past decade). Near the end of the game though, they started to look a little too much like the old Dukes teams... just deflated and physically overmatched in every aspect of the game (i.e. on KU's last drive when standard screen passes would lead to 30 yards gains where defenders would just get bulled over). It's important the guys continue to play with pride and continue to believe they're part of something important, rather than hanging their heads and resigning themselves to "just another joke of a Duke football team."

As a previous poster noted, the overall execution does seem sharper than in the past... now we just need to maintain the right attitude until the talent and experience catch up.
Amen!

If you want to know more about how highly regarded Duke football was for decades, Lewis Bowling's book on Wallace Wade at Alabama and at Duke is a great place to start. It's quite interesting reading especially the discussions about Coach Wade's approach to teaching football players how to play well. His observations about the two kinds of backs and the qualities of a good back, for example, still hold true today. Coach Wade was an innovator who continues to influence today's game. He was a significant influence on Bear Bryant who played at Alabama just after Wade left for Duke.

The way Coach Cutcliffe approaches preparation and other aspects of operating the program reflect the influence of Wallace Wade and were learned under Bear Bryant.

[OldPhiKap]

IMO, the next 2-3 games are going to be huge. In most of the first half, Duke at least looked like they belonged in the game (which is certainly a step up from the past decade). Near the end of the game though, they started to look a little too much like the old Dukes teams... just deflated and physically overmatched in every aspect of the game (i.e. on KU's last drive when standard screen passes would lead to 30 yards gains where defenders would just get bulled over). It's important the guys continue to play with pride and continue to believe they're part of something important, rather than hanging their heads and resigning themselves to "just another joke of a Duke football team."

As a previous poster noted, the overall execution does seem sharper than in the past... now we just need to maintain the right attitude until the talent and experience catch up.

The defense is going to get worn down when the offense keeps going three and out.

Overall, I think we looked pretty good until the interception/TD near the end of the first half. After that, the lack of a running game put us in a hole. But we did execute many other things better, and are on an upwards trajectory.

I forget how many players are either redshirt freshman or true freshman, but this is a really young team. It will take a few recruiting years to build quality depth -- which is what separates the men from the boys.

As several have noted, we have some games coming up that we can win if we are healthy and keep a good attitude. Conditioning and coaching play heavily into both. I'm comfortable with Cut and crew and look for good things coming up.

[Devilsfan]

A few positives from an embarassment in oz.
1. I think we have found a good young QB.
2. We made a FG.
3. I'm still going to pull for our team and attend games at Wallace-Wade.