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tommy
08-29-2009, 11:50 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4431717

If this story pans out, methinks Coach Rodriguez is done. Big "if," I know, but his problems would be:
1. This is not one allegation being made by one disgruntled player. It's five or six players each saying the same thing. Corroboration.
2. The offense is not one of omission, or one consisting of a one-time mistake, or one where the head coach would or could have plausible deniability. This would be an intentional, direct, and repeated violation of clearly stated rules, with the potential impact being a significant competitive advantage over opponents.

Combine that with the lousy performance of last year's team, the less-than-rosy predictions by most observers for the coming season, the perception of many that Rodriguez was a pretty slippery character before this came up, and the doubts that many had that Rodriguez was going to be able to turn the thing around any time soon, and I think he could be a goner.

Anyone else?

roywhite
08-30-2009, 07:02 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4431717

If this story pans out, methinks Coach Rodriguez is done. Big "if," I know, but his problems would be:
1. This is not one allegation being made by one disgruntled player. It's five or six players each saying the same thing. Corroboration.
2. The offense is not one of omission, or one consisting of a one-time mistake, or one where the head coach would or could have plausible deniability. This would be an intentional, direct, and repeated violation of clearly stated rules, with the potential impact being a significant competitive advantage over opponents.

Combine that with the lousy performance of last year's team, the less-than-rosy predictions by most observers for the coming season, the perception of many that Rodriguez was a pretty slippery character before this came up, and the doubts that many had that Rodriguez was going to be able to turn the thing around any time soon, and I think he could be a goner.

Anyone else?

Not surprised that RichRod has been doing this sort of thing. He is a win-at-all-costs kinda guy.

I would be surprised if it becomes an NCAA investigation resulting in official penalties. But we'll see.

Mike Corey
08-30-2009, 08:14 AM
The exodus of players from M*chigan's program makes more sense every day.

Won't be much longer, I suspect, until Les Miles is in charge in Ann Arbor.

Devilsfan
08-30-2009, 09:32 AM
Go Bucks!

BD80
08-30-2009, 10:38 AM
Not surprised that RichRod has been doing this sort of thing. He is a win-at-all-costs kinda guy.

I would be surprised if it becomes an NCAA investigation resulting in official penalties. But we'll see.

I don't know. This could be serious enough to make the NCAA so mad they will strip Dayton of scholarships and impose a post-season ban on Toledo.:rolleyes:


Actually, a post season ban on the Wolverines wouldn't mean much would it? It would be like an order restraining me from dating Jennifer Aniston.

airowe
08-30-2009, 10:48 AM
Looks like Paulus made a good choice.

Bluedog
08-30-2009, 11:54 AM
I honestly think this is the norm at many of the best football programs in the nation. Do you think that most players only dedicate 8 hours a week (or slightly more than 1 hr a day) in the offseason? Of course not. They dedicate ridiculous amounts of time - much more than 8 hrs/week. I realize that it's fine as long as it's voluntary, but I'm sure most programs technically only require the 8 hours and then "highly encourage" (i.e. players will most likely not play if they only do the minimum 8 hrs) additional workouts and have programs set up for the additional time. Seems like a technicality to me. Having said that, I certainly think the NCAA needs to protect its players from excessive required time...But I see this as a pervasive issue, and not really unique to Michigan. It's really a full-time job for these guys.

kmspeaks
08-30-2009, 12:13 PM
I honestly think this is the norm at many of the best football programs in the nation. Do you think that most players only dedicate 8 hours a week (or slightly more than 1 hr a day) in the offseason? Of course not. They dedicate ridiculous amounts of time - much more than 8 hrs/week. I realize that it's fine as long as it's voluntary, but I'm sure most programs technically only require the 8 hours and then "highly encourage" (i.e. players will most likely not play if they only do the minimum 8 hrs) additional workouts and have programs set up for the additional time. Seems like a technicality to me. Having said that, I certainly think the NCAA needs to protect its players from excessive required time...But I see this as a pervasive issue, and not really unique to Michigan. It's really a full-time job for these guys.

This is the norm in almost all college programs, not just big time DI programs, and not just football either. I played DII softball and after fall practice was over we had what we liked to call MV (mandatory-voluntary) workouts and hitting times. Our weightlifting sessions normally lasted about an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and half by the time we warmed up and stretched and then did a core workout and cool down at the end. Only the 45 minutes we actually spent in the weight room counted. A lot of teams, including us baseball, soccer, and volleyball would have "captains' practice" on off days. These kind of things are pretty much SOP for college sports and I doubt the NCAA does anything unless the media decides to amp up the coverage/pressure.

roywhite
08-30-2009, 01:10 PM
This is the norm in almost all college programs, not just big time DI programs, and not just football either. I played DII softball and after fall practice was over we had what we liked to call MV (mandatory-voluntary) workouts and hitting times. Our weightlifting sessions normally lasted about an hour and 15 minutes to an hour and half by the time we warmed up and stretched and then did a core workout and cool down at the end. Only the 45 minutes we actually spent in the weight room counted. A lot of teams, including us baseball, soccer, and volleyball would have "captains' practice" on off days. These kind of things are pretty much SOP for college sports and I doubt the NCAA does anything unless the media decides to amp up the coverage/pressure.

The "everybody does it" story seems a little dubious here.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090829/SPORTS06/90829023

Players are consistently talking about 10 hours or more at fooball-related activities on a Sunday. Some of the more candid accounts come from freshmen, who may not realize the length of these sessions represent a violation.

And Michigan had a highly successful, big-time program under Coach LLoyd Carr. The "Rodriquez way" apparently is a great deal different than the way his predecessor ran things.

Mike Corey
08-30-2009, 01:21 PM
The "everybody does it" defense won't protect M*chigan from the NCAA if the league chooses to investigate and finds that wrongdoing has been or is taking place.

But perhaps more immediately, this could hurt on the recruiting trail, where the negative recruiting of the Wolverines will have an entirely new way in which to be flogged by the Michigan States, Ohio States and Penn States of the college football world.

DukeBlueNikeShox
08-30-2009, 04:12 PM
I have no sympathy for athletes who don't want to work and put the time in to get better. I mean, it's Michigan, not East John Doe State University. Players and teams across the country are working hard to knock them from the top. Players should have the attitude of: "If this is what it takes to be the best and stay on top, then this is what I need to do..." After coming off a three win season, they should be even more motivated to work and to restore the program's name.

There are thousands of AA, DII, and players at smaller DI schools who would give their right arm to be in their shoes and wouldn't complain one bit about working hard. If they don't like it, they should just simply leave - no other way to sugarcoat it...

Devil in the Blue Dress
08-30-2009, 04:24 PM
Somehow I suspect this situation may be more about how the players feel about the coach than about any rules violations........

roywhite
08-30-2009, 04:53 PM
I have no sympathy for athletes who don't want to work and put the time in to get better. I mean, it's Michigan, not East John Doe State University. Players and teams across the country are working hard to knock them from the top. Players should have the attitude of: "If this is what it takes to be the best and stay on top, then this is what I need to do..." After coming off a three win season, they should be even more motivated to work and to restore the program's name.

There are thousands of AA, DII, and players at smaller DI schools who would give their right arm to be in their shoes and wouldn't complain one bit about working hard. If they don't like it, they should just simply leave - no other way to sugarcoat it...

And I have no sympathy for coaches who bend and break every rule to get an edge.

As noted previously, Michigan had a very high-level program before RichRod arrived. What he has achieved so far is controversy, a 3-9 record which was the worst in program history, a high level of transfers and de-commits, and now apparently some serious rule infractions.

Hard work is fine. Cheating is not.

Additional: I've come across numbers of 20 transfers and 8 de-commits under RichRod. Apparently, a good number of players are leaving.

dukemsu
08-30-2009, 05:05 PM
of the overall disease currently infecting Michigan. RichRod has uprooted every policy and tradition of one of the most old-school and resistant to change programs in existence.

I doubt the NCAA gets too involved here. This goes on everywhere. But if the players are going public (anonymously) about this, it is certainly a sign of how miserable they are.

Unless there's a huge improvement this year or at least a win over Ohio State, it's going to be very difficult for RichRod to keep his job. He has infuriated the Old Blue alumni base since he showed up, and they've about had it.

dukemsu

SMO
08-30-2009, 05:11 PM
I have no sympathy for athletes who don't want to work and put the time in to get better. I mean, it's Michigan, not East John Doe State University. Players and teams across the country are working hard to knock them from the top. Players should have the attitude of: "If this is what it takes to be the best and stay on top, then this is what I need to do..." After coming off a three win season, they should be even more motivated to work and to restore the program's name.

There are thousands of AA, DII, and players at smaller DI schools who would give their right arm to be in their shoes and wouldn't complain one bit about working hard. If they don't like it, they should just simply leave - no other way to sugarcoat it...

Well Machiavelli, I'm going out on a limb here but...maybe the rule exists to ensure that D1 athletes actually work on academics some of the time.

miramar
08-30-2009, 05:20 PM
I have no idea if these allegations are true, but I found this comment interesting:

"Big Ten associate commissioner for compliance Chad Hawley told ESPN.com's Adam Rittenberg that the conference would only be involved in an advisory capacity for any investigation of this matter. Any investigation would have to be done by Michigan and, depending on the circumstances, the NCAA."

Chad, aren't you even a little bit curious? I mean, if the solution is for the university and the NCAA to investigate, then why bother having an associate comissioner for compliance?

Of course, I don't get the impression that the ACC has been too interested in FSU either.

DukeBlueNikeShox
08-30-2009, 05:55 PM
Seems like former UM qb Chad Henne has the same opinion as I...;)

http://www.annarbor.com/sports/chad-henne-players-complaining-about-michigans-offseason-program-dont-want-to-be-the-best/

"Well Machiavelli, I'm going out on a limb here but...maybe the rule exists to ensure that D1 athletes actually work on academics some of the time."

Well Machiavelli, I'm sure you also know that last year, Michigan's fb team had the highest collective team GPA in the program's last 20 years...

roywhite
08-30-2009, 06:44 PM
Seems like former UM qb Chad Henne has the same opinion as I...;)

http://www.annarbor.com/sports/chad-henne-players-complaining-about-michigans-offseason-program-dont-want-to-be-the-best/

"Well Machiavelli, I'm going out on a limb here but...maybe the rule exists to ensure that D1 athletes actually work on academics some of the time."

Well Machiavelli, I'm sure you also know that last year, Michigan's fb team had the highest collective team GPA in the program's last 20 years...

You're in favor of the UM players spending 10 hours at the football facility on a Sunday? You're in favor of them not just bending the 20-hour guideline, but blowing it away?

Your linked article noted that Chad Henne did not know first hand about the practice schedule under Coach Rodriquez and his staff. Henne (and Manningham, Jake Long, Mike Hart, etc, etc,) won games at UM under a regime that apparently did not have such practices.

The RichRod era---losing record, major defections, a messy buyout, an ethically challenged coach, and now first hand allegations of serious rules infractions. What's to like?

SMO
08-30-2009, 08:38 PM
Seems like former UM qb Chad Henne has the same opinion as I...;)

http://www.annarbor.com/sports/chad-henne-players-complaining-about-michigans-offseason-program-dont-want-to-be-the-best/

"Well Machiavelli, I'm going out on a limb here but...maybe the rule exists to ensure that D1 athletes actually work on academics some of the time."

Well Machiavelli, I'm sure you also know that last year, Michigan's fb team had the highest collective team GPA in the program's last 20 years...

Well then it must be the correct opinion then, mustn't it? Hell, if Henne says so (although he isn't aware of the details of Rodriguez program), then it must be A-OK by the NCAA!

Let's take your "whatever it takes" argument literally. If Michigan football players need to do "whatever it takes" to improve, are other potential NCAA violations OK too? How about PED's?

On a side note, you should look up Machiavelli and what he believed. I made no Machiavellian suggestion. You did.

SMO
08-30-2009, 08:57 PM
Well Machiavelli, I'm sure you also know that last year, Michigan's fb team had the highest collective team GPA in the program's last 20 years...

And of course, if the team has a high GPA then NCAA rules go out the window. Great argument.

Now Toney Clemons is claiming the accusations are true. Didn't he listen to Henne? Look, I'm not saying they're true or not, but to suggest the rules don't matter is absurd.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4432956

Double DD
08-31-2009, 09:11 AM
I think the "everybody does it" defense only goes so far. It's common knowledge that pretty much every school breaks the NCAA rules on time spent practicing, voluntary workouts etc. The problem here would be that Michigan under Rodriguez must have broken the rules to an extreme amount for players to risk their D1 careers to complain. And some of the players complaining might actually have a frame of reference to compare to, if they played under Lloyd Carr, or have transferred to another BCS conference school.

allenmurray
08-31-2009, 09:22 AM
I have no sympathy for athletes who don't want to work and put the time in to get better. I mean, it's Michigan, not East John Doe State University. Players and teams across the country are working hard to knock them from the top. Players should have the attitude of: "If this is what it takes to be the best and stay on top, then this is what I need to do..." After coming off a three win season, they should be even more motivated to work and to restore the program's name.

There are thousands of AA, DII, and players at smaller DI schools who would give their right arm to be in their shoes and wouldn't complain one bit about working hard. If they don't like it, they should just simply leave - no other way to sugarcoat it...


All of these students will have a life after college. For only a very few of them will that life involve playing football for money. It is important that they get their education. However, 18, 19, and 20 year olds life in the present tense. If their coach says practice, they practice. If their coach says practice more, they practice more. If that leaves no time for academics, well . . .

It is not the responsibility of the adults at the university to make sure that the students go to class and do thier work - they are college students, they have to take responsibility for themselves. But it is the responsibility of the university to make sure that they are able to do that. A student athlete should not have to choose between following the dictates of the coach (who controls his playing time and to some extent his financial aid) and giving adequate time to his studies. The way that happens is for the university to follow the rules.

tommy
08-31-2009, 12:51 PM
Somehow I suspect this situation may be more about how the players feel about the coach than about any rules violations........

No doubt. If, as many others have noted, it is common for big time programs to exceed the practice and workout limits, then there would have to be reason why just the Michigan players are complaining about it all of a sudden. The most likely reason isn't that it is just they who don't like having to work out all those additional hours, but rather because they can't stand this coach and want him out. That may be why they didn't cover for him when approached by the Free Press.

The more interesting issue to contemplate is where this came from. I don't see the Free Press just deciding one day to inquire as to the workout schedules and regimens of Michigan football players. No, I suspect this was instigated by university administrators, who have been very unhappy with Rodriguez and his whole way of doing business (as well as his record) ever since he got there, including the messy buyout from West Virginia. I think they want him out, and this is the hook they're trying to use. After what happened at West Virginia, with Michigan paying part of the penalty for the breakup clause in his WVU contract, I'm sure UM's lawyers were smart enough to insert language in Rodriguez's contract permitting the university to fire him for rules violations or other malfeasance, without having to pay him through the remainder of the contract.

I think this guy wore out his welcome real early, and this is a backdoor effort by the administration to get rid of him sooner rather than later, so they can move on (or back to) a coach and a program that honors tradition and plays by the rules. And wins.

bwi2
08-31-2009, 01:31 PM
I think the "everybody does it" defense only goes so far. It's common knowledge that pretty much every school breaks the NCAA rules on time spent practicing, voluntary workouts etc. The problem here would be that Michigan under Rodriguez must have broken the rules to an extreme amount for players to risk their D1 careers to complain. And some of the players complaining might actually have a frame of reference to compare to, if they played under Lloyd Carr, or have transferred to another BCS conference school.

If you are adding up the hours that Michigan apparently spent on football activities, it comes out to 44. The average amongst D-1A schools last year was 44.8.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/2008-01-12-athletes-full-time-work-study_N.htm



No doubt. If, as many others have noted, it is common for big time programs to exceed the practice and workout limits, then there would have to be reason why just the Michigan players are complaining about it all of a sudden. The most likely reason isn't that it is just they who don't like having to work out all those additional hours, but rather because they can't stand this coach and want him out. That may be why they didn't cover for him when approached by the Free Press.

The more interesting issue to contemplate is where this came from. I don't see the Free Press just deciding one day to inquire as to the workout schedules and regimens of Michigan football players. No, I suspect this was instigated by university administrators, who have been very unhappy with Rodriguez and his whole way of doing business (as well as his record) ever since he got there, including the messy buyout from West Virginia. I think they want him out, and this is the hook they're trying to use. After what happened at West Virginia, with Michigan paying part of the penalty for the breakup clause in his WVU contract, I'm sure UM's lawyers were smart enough to insert language in Rodriguez's contract permitting the university to fire him for rules violations or other malfeasance, without having to pay him through the remainder of the contract.

I think this guy wore out his welcome real early, and this is a backdoor effort by the administration to get rid of him sooner rather than later, so they can move on (or back to) a coach and a program that honors tradition and plays by the rules. And wins.

The author in question (Rosenberg) has written a number of anti-Rodriguez columns and, according to the players' parents, deceived the freshmen and distorted their statements to make it appear as if Michigan were violating the rules. There are a number of transfers who are unhappy with the program, but I don't think that's abnormal with any coaching change.

I don't think there is a reason to question the numbers from the article, but there are ways to blow past the 20 hour limit without violating NCAA rules, and every college coach is well aware of how to do this. Bill Martin has been very supportive of Rodriguez.

roywhite
08-31-2009, 02:49 PM
All is well with the UM program and Coach RichRod?
Just some pesky newspaper guys and some disgruntled transfers?

The idea that players would play a tough game on Saturday and then come to the football facility on Sundays for 10 to 12 hours, and they all just choose to do this voluntarily?....I'm sorry, that doesn't reach the point of a reasonable explanation.

If I recall correctly, that same newspaper in Michigan was way ahead of the Fab Five story at UM, where it was eventually discovered that booster Ed Martin was paying players hundreds of thousands of dollars. And University officials either couldn't find much, or didn't bother to look hard.

I guess we'll see how things play out.

throatybeard
08-31-2009, 03:47 PM
If I'm Les Miles, I wouldn't touch that grease fire with a 20-foot stick that Bo Schembechler himself fashioned out of the World Ash Tree.

Duvall
08-31-2009, 04:04 PM
If I'm Les Miles, I wouldn't touch that grease fire with a 20-foot stick that Bo Schembechler himself fashioned out of the World Ash Tree.

Yes, but consider the alternative (http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=1504631).

Devil in the Blue Dress
08-31-2009, 04:09 PM
Yes, but consider the alternative (http://www.lsusports.net/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=5200&ATCLID=1504631).
Les Miles has more power at LSU than does the reference you've made. (That man has been invisible since he got there.)

rthomas
08-31-2009, 05:53 PM
I'm at WVU, I love this. yea, maybe everyone does this, but who complains? Michigan. Shows the discontent with our old coach. lol.

We were all wondering why Rodriguez was shredding all his files when he left WVU. Now we know.

roywhite
08-31-2009, 07:41 PM
Well Machiavelli, I'm sure you also know that last year, Michigan's fb team had the highest collective team GPA in the program's last 20 years...

How is that UM football players can travel to games, play on Saturday, practice or be involved with football activities for 10-12 hours on Sunday and still get decent grades?

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/academics/stories/index.ssf/2008/03/athletes_steered_to_prof.html

Well, the "independent study" program described in this Ann Arbor News piece may help explain that.

"When The News dug further, however, speaking to athletes and former athletic department employees as part of a seven-month investigation that included interviewing 87 people and reviewing more than 3,500 pages of internal documents, a different picture emerged:

Key player

John Hagen
Psychology professor
• Why he's important: Taught at least 251 independent study classes to Michigan varsity athletes (more than 85% of such classes from Dr. Hagen were to varsity athletes) from fall 2004 to fall 2007, with much of the course content directed at improving students' learning skills.
• Michigan athletes described being steered to Hagen's courses by their athletic department academic counselors and, in some cases, earning three or four credits for meeting with Hagen for as little as 15 minutes every two weeks.
• Three former athletic department employees said Hagen's independent study courses are sometimes used by academic support staff to boost the grade point averages of athletes in danger of becoming academically ineligible to compete in sports."

throatybeard
08-31-2009, 08:13 PM
How is that UM football players can travel to games, play on Saturday, practice or be involved with football activities for 10-12 hours on Sunday and still get decent grades?

http://www.mlive.com/wolverines/academics/stories/index.ssf/2008/03/athletes_steered_to_prof.html

Well, the "independent study" program described in this Ann Arbor News piece may help explain that.

"When The News dug further, however, speaking to athletes and former athletic department employees as part of a seven-month investigation that included interviewing 87 people and reviewing more than 3,500 pages of internal documents, a different picture emerged:

Key player

John Hagen
Psychology professor
• Why he's important: Taught at least 251 independent study classes to Michigan varsity athletes (more than 85% of such classes from Dr. Hagen were to varsity athletes) from fall 2004 to fall 2007, with much of the course content directed at improving students' learning skills.
• Michigan athletes described being steered to Hagen's courses by their athletic department academic counselors and, in some cases, earning three or four credits for meeting with Hagen for as little as 15 minutes every two weeks.
• Three former athletic department employees said Hagen's independent study courses are sometimes used by academic support staff to boost the grade point averages of athletes in danger of becoming academically ineligible to compete in sports."

Sounds like the mess at Auburn a few years ago.

What I've always wondered is how the professors get mixed up in this. Gambling debts? Excessive love of the sport? Pressure from corrupt Deans/Provosts/Presidents? ADs don't have any authority over professors in the hierarchy. I was at Mississippi State. The football coach could drive up to my house with a dumptruck full of money and ask me to do X, and I still wouldn't. And I like football.

BD80
08-31-2009, 09:53 PM
How is that UM football players can travel to games, play on Saturday, practice or be involved with football activities for 10-12 hours on Sunday and still get decent grades?

There is a lot to the "academics" story at UM. Remember the Jim Harbaugh dust-up a couple of years ago?

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=2966536&sportCat=ncf

The key is that they don't really study anything:


...a scan of the 2007 Michigan media guide. Only 30 players have listed majors, and 19 of them are pursuing degrees in something called "general studies." That's 20 percent of the team, and 63 percent of the players who have declared a major.


Yet a university spokesman said this week that less than 1 percent of the undergraduate student body is in the general studies degree program. ...

And that's not all. The other declared degree programs on the football team are: movement science (three players); sports management and communications (two); economics (two); P.E. (one); psychology (one); English (one); and American culture (one). There appears to be one undeclared player enrolled in the business school and another in the college of engineering.


Only one junior has declared a major... . In 18 years of covering college athletics, I've never seen virtually an entire junior class without a major.

The best part was the University's attempted defense of its "General Studies":


Cathy Conway-Perrin, director of academic standards and academic opportunities in Michigan's College of Literature, Science and the Arts, ...

"BGS [Bachelor of General Studies] can be more demanding in some ways," Conway-Perrin wrote in an e-mail asking for an explanation of the degree. "For example, students are required to take at least 60 credits of upper-level courses (courses numbered 300 and above, which are generally more intensive courses aimed at juniors and seniors). Since students need 120 credits to graduate, that means that at least half of a BGS student's coursework is upper-level.

Like, these guys even have to take senior and junior courses to get the degree! Of course they get to choose ANY upper level course from the entire schedule, and just maybe end up in the easiest of courses. In ANY major at a school as good as Michigan there is going to be a couple of difficult courses, and a dean overseeing the credibility of the program. In General Studies, there need be nothing but easy classes.

If Michigan brings up their academic standards as a defense, reporters will swarm like sharks smelling blood.

Jim3k
08-31-2009, 09:56 PM
Sounds like the mess at Auburn a few years ago.

What I've always wondered is how the professors get mixed up in this. Gambling debts? Excessive love of the sport? Pressure from corrupt Deans/Provosts/Presidents? ADs don't have any authority over professors in the hierarchy. I was at Mississippi State. The football coach could drive up to my house with a dumptruck full of money and ask me to do X, and I still wouldn't. And I like football.

Yeah, but your price is higher than what a dumptruck could hold. :rolleyes:

whereinthehellami
09-01-2009, 07:40 AM
Did anyone catch Rich Rod on ESPN this morning? Give that man an emmy and/or a tissue. what a performance. He must be feeling some heat to have to dig that deep. We should get Allen Iverson to way in on this! We're talking about practice!!

lmb
09-01-2009, 11:41 AM
Rich Rod was awfully over-the-top on the fake emotion at his press conference. I usually give people the benefit of the doubt but I had a hard time believing a single word that came out of his mouth.

bill brill
09-01-2009, 01:47 PM
I asked coach cutcliffe today at the duke media conference about the time limits on the players. he said it was easy to plan. the team is off monday. games count for three hours. that leaves 17 throughout the week and he specified how it worked, although I didn't write it down. he did talk about a 40-minute practice. players do work on their own, but I can't imagine anybody doing the kind of hours being reported for UM voluntarily. of course, with all of those difficult majors, who knows. and don't forget that UM is traditionally the highest rated public school by u.s. news and world report. it Also is a huge school. maybe it's hard to keep track of what happens, especially when u go 3-9.

throatybeard
09-01-2009, 03:38 PM
ESPN's got a poll up, "do you enjoy seeing Michigan football struggle." It's 62% yes. Interestingly, several states in New England are voting no, along with Michgan itself.

Double Standard
09-01-2009, 11:26 PM
Thank God nobody ever transfers from Duke. We're also lucky in that nobody in the media ever has an axe to grind against us, so anything printed in a newspaper about Duke is always unbiased and accurate. And all our athletes take the hard courses on Science Drive, instead of majoring in things like "General Studies" or "Sociology".

Best of all our fans have long memories and are completely free of hypocrisy, which may also explain why everybody loves us.

FireOgilvie
09-01-2009, 11:35 PM
Thank God nobody ever transfers from Duke. We're also lucky in that nobody in the media ever has an axe to grind against us, so anything printed in a newspaper about Duke is always unbiased and accurate. And all our athletes take the hard courses on Science Drive, instead of majoring in things like "General Studies" or "Sociology".

Best of all our fans have long memories and are completely free of hypocrisy, which may also explain why everybody loves us.

Duke doesn't pretend to have a great football program. Michigan has been among the top programs for quite awhile now. But, while Duke has been struggling on the field, they have had great success in the classroom. Duke regularly graduates nearly every player on the roster. I don't think any football team in the country has players that all take the "hard courses." I don't think anyone has a problem with Duke football fans... in fact, I don't think anyone really cares about Duke football fans at all. But, welcome to the board!

Duvall
09-01-2009, 11:44 PM
things like "General Studies" or "Sociology".

Yeah, because that's a fair comparison.

And nobody cares about Duke fans. There aren't enough of us to provoke hostility.

SMO
09-02-2009, 08:12 AM
Thank God nobody ever transfers from Duke. We're also lucky in that nobody in the media ever has an axe to grind against us, so anything printed in a newspaper about Duke is always unbiased and accurate. And all our athletes take the hard courses on Science Drive, instead of majoring in things like "General Studies" or "Sociology".

Best of all our fans have long memories and are completely free of hypocrisy, which may also explain why everybody loves us.

When was the last time Duke was accused of a serious NCAA violation? Given the numerous axes people have to grind against Duke, doesn't the school have a remarkable record?

roywhite
09-02-2009, 10:07 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_/id/5613/u-m-president-issues-statement-on-allegations

President Mary Sue Coleman issued a statement:


At the University of Michigan, we place the highest importance on the welfare of our student-athletes and the integrity of our intercollegiate athletics program. Our university is widely recognized for academic and athletic excellence, and it’s something we work to achieve every day. I am proud of our unwavering commitment to that standard.

As soon as the allegations surfaced about our athletic program, I launched an investigation. Our Board of Regents is fully informed on the matter. With the help of outside counsel, we are working in cooperation with the NCAA to discover and assess the facts of the situation.

It is critical that a thorough and objective investigation is completed before any conclusions are drawn. We will then determine what -- if any -- actions need to occur to ensure full compliance with NCAA rules and our own rules of conduct.