8-25 football scrimmage

[jimsumner]

Duke had a football scrimmage tonight, open to the media.

Some highlights.

Key players held out included Lewis, Riley, Williams, Thornton, and Egboh. Precuationary, shouldn't be cause for concern.

Bondesson still hasn't dressed out. Huffman played.

The scrimmage was shorter than Saturday's and more situational. The outcome was rigged. It appeared to be 1st and 2nd team against 3rd and
4th team.

Renfree was a bit shakier than the other times I've seen him. Underthrew a post pattern that should have been a TD and forced a throw into coverage, resulting in a pick by true freshman Ross Cockrell.

Schroeder was very effective on short passes. I still haven't seen him hit anything long. In fairness, he was working behind a line comprised of Chris Shannon and four true freshmen, so he was under fire.

Boyette ran hard, two short TDs. Patrick Kurunwune had a 65-yard TD run late, deking Lex Butler late and showing more speed and maneurability than I had previously credited him.

True freshman Tyree Glover provided another highlight, blocking a punt and scooping it up for a score. He also was in on more than a few tackles. Looks like a keeper.

Tony Foster turned in a nice play for the scrubs, converting a short pass into a 30-yard gain. He's pretty far down the depth chart but you had to notice his effort.

Two injuries. Lee Butler, right shoulder, and Leon Wright, left ankle. Too early to guess as to severity. Fingers crossed and all that.

I suspect we'll have some stats from Duke shortly.

Later.

[OldPhiKap]

Thanks, Jim.

Right before I be-bopped over here, came across the following on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIWaosOL12Y

I imagine it's been posted somewhere before, but kind of proves my point re: Thad. You need to watch the whole thing -- it's peppered throughout -- but anyone who thinks they know more about quarterbacking than Cut should state credentials before posting.

RIP 'EM UP, TEAR 'EM UP . . . .

And remember -- it's a process, not a quick term trip.

[jimsumner]

Here's most of the info from Duke

"Redshirt senior running back Re'quan Boyette rushed for a pair touchdowns to highlight Duke's 55-play scrimmage on Tuesday night at Wallace Wade Stadium.

Duke's leading rusher in both 2006 and 2007 before missing last season due to injury, Boyette found the end zone from four and 18 yards out and finished with five carries for 39 yards. Redshirt freshman running back Patrick Kurunwune gained a team-high 80 yards on four attempts including a 67-yard scoring scamper.

"You'd like to eliminate the turnover; you'd like to eliminate the dropped touchdown (pass); and you'd like to eliminate the penalty," head coach David Cutcliffe said following the session. "Outside of that there was no obvious thing, and that is a great tribute to our coaches. Our game management on offense with coach (Kurt) Roper and the rest of the offensive staff was as smooth as it could be. The work from coach (Mike) MacIntyre, coach (Marion) Hobby and the entire defense was as good as I've been around.

"My hat is off to our coaches," Cutcliffe continued. "This was as much a test for our coaches as it was our players, and it was well done in that regard. We held out some good football players trying to look at some young players and see where we are, and I think its good that we did that. We have some people in our depth chart that are young and haven't played a lot of football and I wanted them to get the majority of the snaps tonight."

Playing with the first unit as starter Thaddeus Lewis did not dress for the scrimmage, backup quarterback Sean Renfree completed five-of-eight throws for 80 yards and one interception. Renfree opened the scrimmage with completions of 37 and 24 yards to sophomore wide receiver Donovan Varner to set up Boyette's first touchdown run. Rookie Sean Schroeder was 11-of-20 through the air for 76 yards.

Freshman Tyree Glover highlighted the special teams effort with a five-yard return of a blocked punt for a touchdown.

Defensively, redshirt senior defensive tackle Vince Oghobaase was credited with two tackles for loss including one quarterback sack. Freshman cornerback Ross Cockrell posted one interception.

Along with Lewis, projected starters that did not participate in the scrimmage included senior linebacker Vincent Rey, junior linebacker Damian Thornton and sophomore wide receiver Johnny Williams.

STATISTICAL LEADERS
Passing: Sean Renfree 5-8, 80 yards; Sean Schroder 11-20, 76 yards; 1 INT
Rushing: Patrick Kurunwune 4-80; Re'quan Boyette 5-39
Receiving: Desmond Scott 4-13; Tony Foster 3-39; Donovan Varner 2-61

SCORING SUMMARY
Re'quan Boyette 4 run (Will Snyderwine kick)
Re'quan Boyette 18 run (Will Snyderwine kick)
Tyree Glover 5 blocked punt return (Will Snyderwine kick)
Patrick Kurunwune (Sean Renfree pass failed)"

[Bob Green]

Duke had a football scrimmage tonight, open to the media.

Some highlights.

Key players held out included Lewis, Riley, Williams, Thornton, and Egboh. Precuationary, shouldn't be cause for concern.



Jim,

I cannot find a Riley on the roster, did you mean Rey?

[Bob Green]

Nevermind. I just saw your updated info. Thanks for the report as I'm ready for football season to start.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanks for the update Jim.



Key players held out included Lewis, Riley, Williams, Thornton, and Egboh. Precuationary, shouldn't be cause for concern. .
I'm guessing Riley is still with the Ravens, so he couldn't have played anyways.:D I see a lot of teams hold out their top players as the first game nears. Seems like a good idea to me.



Two injuries. Lee Butler, right shoulder, and Leon Wright, left ankle. Too early to guess as to severity. Fingers crossed and all that.

Compared to past years, it seems like we are going to go into the season pretty healthy. I know Wright was injured last year in the GT game, hopefully he heals quickly and has the rest of the season injury free. He's some experience that we need on the field. Same with Butler.

[jimsumner]

Yea, Rey not Riley. Thanks.

Could be a Freudian slip. :)

[CameronBornAndBred]

Redshirt senior running back Re'quan Boyette rushed for a pair touchdowns to highlight Duke's 55-play scrimmage on Tuesday night at Wallace Wade Stadium.

Being that you said this was "rigged", how is Boyette actually looking? I'm loving that he's back, and hoping he is at full speed. He's fun to watch.

[jimsumner]

Boyette has looked good. He's running a lot between the tackles.

Duke did have him running back a kick, so they must be pretty sure his knee is sound.

One concern is the kick-off game. None of these guys seem to be able to get kickoffs any deeper than about the ten, so the Duke D is going to be setting up on the 30-40 yard line a lot.

Hopefully, the kickoff team will get a lot of practice and get better at it. :)

A word on Donovan Varner. He had a shaky scrimmage earlier and has been banged up. But he's looked good in the last two scimmages, running crisp routes, catching everything thrown his way, and getting some yacs. Kudos.

And true freshman WR Conner Vernon is going to be real good. I'm a lot less worried about replacing Riley than I was last spring.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Compared to past years, it seems like we are going to go into the season pretty healthy. I know Wright was injured last year in the GT game, hopefully he heals quickly and has the rest of the season injury free. He's some experience that we need on the field. Same with Butler.
Ugh...Was just reading this article from the Winston-Salem Journal (http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2009/aug/25/eager-duke-secondary-expects-to-be-tested/sports-college-football/)to put these two injuries in perspective.

"Barring changes or injuries, Duke will match seniors Leon Wright at cornerback and Catron Gainey at safety with sophomore Lee Butler at the other corner and Daniels at the other safety spot. Junior Chris Rwabukamba will be the fifth defensive back, and Cutcliffe will count on freshmen Walt Canty and Zach Greene for depth. Wright has started 18 games for Duke and Gainey 15, but Daniels and Butler will start for only the second time in the opener. Daniels and Butler also played in a combined 21 games as reserves last season."

[formerdukeathlete]

Duke had a football scrimmage tonight, open to the media.

Some highlights.

Key players held out included Lewis, Riley, Williams, Thornton, and Egboh. Precuationary, shouldn't be cause for concern.

Bondesson still hasn't dressed out. Huffman played.

The scrimmage was shorter than Saturday's and more situational. The outcome was rigged. It appeared to be 1st and 2nd team against 3rd and
4th team.

Renfree was a bit shakier than the other times I've seen him. Underthrew a post pattern that should have been a TD and forced a throw into coverage, resulting in a pick by true freshman Ross Cockrell.

Schroeder was very effective on short passes. I still haven't seen him hit anything long. In fairness, he was working behind a line comprised of Chris Shannon and four true freshmen, so he was under fire.

Boyette ran hard, two short TDs. Patrick Kurunwune had a 65-yard TD run late, deking Lex Butler late and showing more speed and maneurability than I had previously credited him.

True freshman Tyree Glover provided another highlight, blocking a punt and scooping it up for a score. He also was in on more than a few tackles. Looks like a keeper.

Tony Foster turned in a nice play for the scrubs, converting a short pass into a 30-yard gain. He's pretty far down the depth chart but you had to notice his effort.

Two injuries. Lee Butler, right shoulder, and Leon Wright, left ankle. Too early to guess as to severity. Fingers crossed and all that.

I suspect we'll have some stats from Duke shortly.

Later.

regarding the qbs, who seemed to see the field better, Renfree or Schroeder?

throwing into coverage - was there a window on that interception, if Renfree had thread the needle? He might have read it, but the throw was off. Schroeder's incompletions, how many were there and dropped? And, would you say that he had less than 3 seconds to set up on most of these incompletions?

So much of qb pay is decision making, then timing and accuracy, then the esoteric "arm strength." If that arm strength is at the expense of ball catch-ability, then there you go, the conundrum.

Sounds like Schroeder is the real deal. Do you agree?

As an aside, in Paulus' 150 play scrimmage last Saturday, there was not an interception, according to Coach Marrone's Monday presser.

[jimsumner]

"As an aside, in Paulus' 150 play scrimmage last Saturday, there was not an interception, according to Coach Marrone's Monday presser. "

I sure hope Paulus didn't play all 150 plays. You have to remember he's playing against the Syracuse defense, which may account for the lack of INTs. :)

I appreciate your enthusiasm for injecting Paulus into every discussion of Duke football. But I'm pretty sure he isn't on the Duke team. So, maybe we can discuss those who are.

The plan is to redshirt Schroeder if at all possible. But Duke only has two other QBs, so an injury to either would force Cut's hand. I suppose Gattis is another emergency option. He's at WR now but also is a true freshman. I don't think a decision has been made on his status. But Duke is very deep at WR so a redshirt may be in order.

I was most impressed by Schroeder's poise. Remember he was playing with a shaky line against the top Duke line. He had third-team WRs against first-team DBs. But Schroeder didn't bail out, didn't panic despite constant pressure. He seems to have good footwork and that ability to feel pressure and react accordingly.

Of course, QBs were touched not tackled so it might be a different response when he gets pounded down not whistled down.

As I said earlier, I still haven't seen him hit anything long. But he was overthrowing receivers who didn't have much if any separation from the DBs. So it's likely more a timing issue than an arm-strength issue.

Renfree's mistake on the pick was a classic mistake of a talented youngster. He simply thought he could muscle the ball into an area without much space. Should have gone to Plan B. Or C.

It should be noted that both the O and D have been pretty vanilla in both recent scrimmages. Neither Renfree nor Schroeder have faced much in the way of stunts, blitzes, clevely disguised defenses. Nor have they been asked to execute anything out of the ordinary. It's going to be a lot more complicated in real games.

FWIW, I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the earlier posts but the new scoreboard is still not ready for primetime. I can't imagine that it won't be ready for Richmond but some folks might be looking at some overtime.

[formerdukeathlete]

"..........I sure hope Paulus didn't play all 150 plays. You have to remember he's playing against the Syracuse defense, which may account for the lack of INTs. :)

I appreciate your enthusiasm for injecting Paulus into every discussion of Duke football. But I'm pretty sure he isn't on the Duke team. So, maybe we can discuss those who are.

The plan is to redshirt Schroeder if at all possible. But Duke only has two other QBs, so an injury to either would force Cut's hand. I suppose Gattis is another emergency option. He's at WR now but also is a true freshman. I don't think a decision has been made on his status. But Duke is very deep at WR so a redshirt may be in order.

I was most impressed by Schroeder's poise. Remember he was playing with a shaky line against the top Duke line. He had third-team WRs against first-team DBs. But Schroeder didn't bail out, didn't panic despite constant pressure. He seems to have good footwork and that ability to feel pressure and react accordingly.

Of course, QBs were touched not tackled so it might be a different response when he gets pounded down not whistled down.

As I said earlier, I still haven't seen him hit anything long. But he was overthrowing receivers who didn't have much if any separation from the DBs. So it's likely more a timing issue than an arm-strength issue.

Renfree's mistake on the pick was a classic mistake of a talented youngster. He simply thought he could muscle the ball into an area without much space. Should have gone to Plan B. Or C.

It should be noted that both the O and D have been pretty vanilla in both recent scrimmages. Neither Renfree nor Schroeder have faced much in the way of stunts, blitzes, clevely disguised defenses. Nor have they been asked to execute anything out of the ordinary. It's going to be a lot more complicated in real games.

FWIW, I'm not sure if I mentioned this in the earlier posts but the new scoreboard is still not ready for primetime. I can't imagine that it won't be ready for Richmond but some folks might be looking at some overtime.

re Paulus, i understand he took the majority of the 150 snaps and put on a display in a scrimmage officiated, full pads, etc.

re Schroeder, he appears to be a pretty tall player, taller than Renfree? I think if we are down to 2 qbs, we should still plan on doing what it takes to put the best people in there to win right now. Maybe Gattis is quite the qb. But, unless he is in Schroeder's league who is just about in Renfree's league, i would submit we need to go with Schroeder. Schroeder is confident in his ability, planning on doing everything to play at the next level, so he may be more than up for getting in there and giving the then no. 1 a run for his money. No Ted Roof "building" this season; time to start winning now.

[Olympic Fan]

And what makes you think Schroeder is "just about in Renfree's league"?

Unless Lewis AND Renfree are hurt, Schroeder is going to redshirt this season. Period. As for Gattis, he's going to be a wide receiver at Duke. Jim only mentioned him as a potential emergency guy, just in case something happens to Lewis, Renfree and Schroeder.

PS FWIW, both Renfree and Schroeder are listed at 6-foot-3. What's your weird obsession with height?

[formerdukeathlete]

And what makes you think Schroeder is "just about in Renfree's league"?

Unless Lewis AND Renfree are hurt, Schroeder is going to redshirt this season. Period. As for Gattis, he's going to be a wide receiver at Duke. Jim only mentioned him as a potential emergency guy, just in case something happens to Lewis, Renfree and Schroeder.

PS FWIW, both Renfree and Schroeder are listed at 6-foot-3. What's your weird obsession with height?

I guess you have not been reading much the message boards. On several of these boards its pretty much the universal observation that Schroeder is very close to Renfree. Brandon King has said basically as much. I take the opinions of about 20 posters in total as well as of our starting tight end / h back and thats what makes me think what i think.

If Lewis is hurt, Renfree will be the only one to take snaps?.... Talk about setting yourself up for disaster if Renfree then goes down - with no. 3 then going in with absolutely no prior game experience. Talk about greatly reducing your chances to win that game.

I think Jim also mentioned Gattis as a possible plug in so as not to burn Schroeder's shirt - in fact that is how i took his comment.

You can bet coaches and scouts are interested in how tall qb's actually are. 6'0.5" is not 6-2, though it appears that way on Duke's roster. Schroeder is listed at 6-3, but appears taller in pictures than our other 6-3 qb. That may be to Schroeder's advantage.

[Duvall]

re Schroeder, he appears to be a pretty tall player, taller than Renfree?

Oh, lord.

[OldPhiKap]

^ Good thing he's not a basketball player. We all know that K can't land the bigguns.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

^ Good thing he's not a basketball player. We all know that K can't land the bigguns.

Can't coach 'em or develop 'em either.....

[jafarr1]

Don't underestimate Schroeder just because FDA suggested he might be good (although I understand the instinct to do so). People are drooling over Renfree, but I've read lots of things that suggest that the sky wouldn't exactly be falling if Schroeder ended up on the field.

[jimsumner]

Gattis would only play QB under a very unlikely set of circumstances.

First, he would have to be in the WR rotation. I suspect he'll be redshirted, so that almost certainly eliminates the possibility.

But if he is playing and if one of Lewis and Renfree has a short-term injury, then I could see Duke using Gattis as an emergency QB in order to preserve Schroeder's redshirt. In the same way that Clifford Harris was an emergency QB.

Again, very, very unlikely.

[Olympic Fan]

I guess you have not been reading much the message boards. On several of these boards its pretty much the universal observation that Schroeder is very close to Renfree. Brandon King has said basically as much. I take the opinions of about 20 posters in total as well as of our starting tight end / h back and thats what makes me think what i think.

If Lewis is hurt, Renfree will be the only one to take snaps?.... Talk about setting yourself up for disaster if Renfree then goes down - with no. 3 then going in with absolutely no prior game experience. Talk about greatly reducing your chances to win that game.

I think Jim also mentioned Gattis as a possible plug in so as not to burn Schroeder's shirt - in fact that is how i took his comment.

You can bet coaches and scouts are interested in how tall qb's actually are. 6'0.5" is not 6-2, though it appears that way on Duke's roster. Schroeder is listed at 6-3, but appears taller in pictures than our other 6-3 qb. That may be to Schroeder's advantage.


(1) Wow, I can't believe how misinformed I am -- I haven't been reading the message boards! Of course, we know that's where you get your information a la how great Greg Paulus is doing at Syracuse (since I know you didn't actually see the scrimmage). I guess I'm wasting my time going to ther scrimmages and actually seeing these guys play.

(2) If Lewis is hurt, yes, Renfree will be the only QB who plays -- unless he's hurt too. Schroeder has looked good, just as Renfree did this time last year. But he's not close to Renfree right now. Jim was not suggesting that Gattis would be used ahead of Schroeder, but as an emergency if the only three real QBs on the roster are hurt. In the best case scenario Gattis will be redshirted too.

(3) Height is a nice quality, but I guarantee you that coaches aren't as obsessed with height as you are. There are far more important qualities. We all remember how you kept suggesting that Zack Asack had to be a better QB than Thad Lewis because he was taller.

Funny, last year's All-ACC QB was 5-11 (Russell Wilson). The second team All-ACC guy was 6-1 Thad Lewis. Yeah, the first round guy in 2007 was 6-5 Matt Ryan, but the second team guy that year was 6-1 Riley Skinner. Virginia Tech won the 2008 ACC title with 6-1 Tyrod Tayler at QB.

And why the love for Greg Paulus? He's only 6-1 ... so he can't be any good, right? Wait til we go to Kansas and you get a look at 5-11 Todd Reising. Nothing to worry about, right?

I repeat, there are MANY more important qualities in a quarterback than his height. College football is not the NFL. A LOT of guys 6-1 and under succeed at the college level -- even in drop-back passing offenses.

If it makes you feel any better, Renfree and Schroeder are both 6-3 -- the same listed height as Tim Tebow, Colt McCoy and Graham Harrell. I think they're big enough to be successful.

[formerdukeathlete]

(1) Wow, I can't believe how misinformed I am -- I haven't been reading the message boards! Of course, we know that's where you get your information a la how great Greg Paulus is doing at Syracuse (since I know you didn't actually see the scrimmage). I guess I'm wasting my time going to ther scrimmages and actually seeing these guys play.

.........

Your post above is partly correct, and informative in that respect.

Doug Marrone was an OC in the NFL, coached in the South in college, played in the NFL, knows a lot of folks, his pressers are very, very informative - more so than any i have seen in terms of tracking progress of his team. There is a lot of info. out there on how Greg has been doing. the message boards have been cryptic at best, and have lagged by days Greg's actual progress. I assure you i have not relied on message boards re GP. I made message boards on GP in terms of breaking the news that he was going d-1 with big time interest.

Re Schroeder and his shirt, there is another factor in this equation - how he feels about it. He may think he can take Renfree, may not want to stick around for 5 years and if he cant take Renfree then maybe he will want to transfer and use that extra otherwise redshirt year waiting to play. No mamby pamby. Maybe he is ready to roll.

[jimsumner]

"Re Schroeder and his shirt, there is another factor in this equation - how he feels about it. He may think he can take Renfree, may not want to stick around for 5 years and if he cant take Renfree then maybe he will want to transfer and use that extra otherwise redshirt year waiting to play. No mamby pamby. Maybe he is ready to roll. "

Are you freaking serious? You base this speculative nonsense on what?

Schroeder was recruited with the understanding that he would likely redshirt his freshman season. As was Renfree. He knew that going in and there is absolutely not one shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.

And IMO it is irresponsible of you to raise this doubt without any knowledge on your part. And you don't have any.

We've tried to have two threads on Duke football based on scrimmages and you've high-jacked both of them.

Can you please give it a rest?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

"Re Schroeder and his shirt, there is another factor in this equation - how he feels about it. He may think he can take Renfree, may not want to stick around for 5 years and if he cant take Renfree then maybe he will want to transfer and use that extra otherwise redshirt year waiting to play. No mamby pamby. Maybe he is ready to roll. "

Are you freaking serious? You base this speculative nonsense on what?

Schroeder was recruited with the understanding that he would likely redshirt his freshman season. As was Renfree. He knew that going in and there is absolutely not one shred of evidence to suggest otherwise.

And IMO it is irresponsible of you to raise this doubt without any knowledge on your part. And you don't have any.

We've tried to have two threads on Duke football based on scrimmages and you've high-jacked both of them.

Can you please give it a rest?
While I have agreed with FDA on certain points over the years (the drinking age should be lower than 21, just as one example, and eventually the football field will be lowered and the track eliminated (moved), as another, and that's two more points than most people), I have grown tired of his schtick and the pointless back and forth p*ssing matches that always seem to ensue. Jim, I agree with your last point.

[formerdukeathlete]

"Re Schroeder and his shirt, there is another factor in this equation - how he feels about it. He may think he can take Renfree, may not want to stick around for 5 years and if he cant take Renfree then maybe he will want to transfer and use that extra otherwise redshirt year waiting to play. No mamby pamby. Maybe he is ready to roll. "

Are you freaking serious? You base this speculative nonsense on what?

Schroeder was recruited with the understanding that he would likely redshirt his freshman season. As was Renfree. He knew that going in and there is absolutely not one shred of evidence to suggest otherwise. ........?

Lets remember the context of the thread. we are discussing what happens, if, and hopefully not ever gonna happen, if we are down to two qbs due to a season ending injury of no. 1 or no. 2, lets add early in the season. Maybe we are different than other programs. For example, when during Curt Dukes planned redshirt year at Nebraska circumstances changed, he was given the option of stepping up, but he chose not to. If Lewis or Renfree are down in the first game for the season, do we just play the one left standing for the whole season, do we move Gattis over, or do we ask Schroeder for his input due to changed circumstances, or do we have open tryouts with the student body, or move another guy into qb who played the position in high school and who is not a red or no red player such as Gattis? I would think, the program's need to win now prevails. I may be absolutely wrong, and Olympic fan may be absolutely right. But, nothing, within the context of my posts did i suggest there was something Machiavellian vis a vis Schroeder's or our intent when he was recruited. It just strikes me that were we down to two and he were one of them, and close to no. 1 in performance, he would not be fearful fo the challenge.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Lets remember the context of the thread. we are discussing what happens, if, and hopefully not ever gonna happen, if we are down to two qbs due to a season ending injury of no. 1 or no. 2, lets add early in the season.
I thought we were discussing how the scrimmage went on 8-25.

[captmojo]

I thought we were discussing how the scrimmage went on 8-25.

This subject may be too simple. :D