mike vick to eagles.

[moonpie23]

wow, with the last ten years being the drama-rama with TO and andy's kid, you'd never guess they would have gone for it.....

mcnabb prolly isn't too happy about that..

[wolfpackdevil]

I really don't think that the Eagles would have signed Vick if McNabb wasn't happy about it.

This is McNabb's franchise, and I bet he likes the signing.

For one thing, Michael Vick is nothing like T.O.

And Vick could play two years under McNabb, running the wildcat and getting some reps in at QB before going to another team to start quarterback in 2 years.

[rthomas]

Being a huge Stillers fan, I'm lol....Losers!

[DukeUsul]

Now who should I root for? This Eagles fan is VERY disappointed.

[JasonEvans]

Having nothing to do with the morality of it--

From a football standpoint, I think this is a good move by the Eagles. Philly's offense has lacked spark and excitement in recent years with the exception of Westbrook. I expect them to figure out a number of ways to get the ball to Vick by lining him up in the slot and perhaps returning kicks. I don't think he will play all that much QB this year, though I could see him doing it on some 3rd downs or goal-line situations.

They will see if he has what it takes to be a QB down the road -- in a year or two when Donovan is ready to retire. Hard to see a downside for Philly from a competitive standpoint.

--Jason "as for how ti plays with the fans-- Philly fans just want to win" Evans

[Turk]

"They'll need to keep Vick on a short leash..." - David Letterman

Very surprising; I could actually see it working, depending on how long it takes Vick to get back into game shape. Sal Palaoantonio was saying that the Beagles put a couple animal rights groups in their back pocket and even ran this past Philly's mayor. Also, Vick and McNabb are apparently friends. It looks like that rookie McCoy from Pitt might give their offense a boost even if Vick doesn't work out.

[SupaDave]

Quite frankly, they are about to sell a lot of #7 jerseys in Philadelphia...

Forget the wildcat - this is the west coast offense...

One screen pass from McNabb to Vick will be all it takes. Westbrook on one side and Vick on the other in the shotgun formation leaves a defense with some tough decisions to make.

[cspan37421]

I admit being surprised by this news; I thought if he signed, he'd probably go to a team that had nothing to lose, like the Lions or Raiders. Detroit made a lot of sense to me - they've been a QB and HC graveyard for years, and at least one ex-con found redemption there (Ron LeFlore, Tigers - yeah, reaching back a bit). The only reason I thought it might not work out with the Lions was that in the last several years they've had more than one high draft pick with character issues - and maybe they're trying to pay more attention to that going forward.

The Eagles did surprise me. This is the town that booed Santa Claus? Good luck winning them over, Mr. Vick.

[Jeffrey]

I'd rather lose with high ideals, than win with Vick.

[SupaDave]

I'd rather lose with high ideals, than win with Vick.

Just curious but how is winning with Vick playing with low "ideals"?

Seriously, you need to watch Andy Reid's press conference. The guy has become the BEST spokesperson the Humane Society has EVER had especially in the area of dogfighting (which still continues to this day by the way).

By all accounts, Vick has learned to take responsibility for his actions and is using his own misdeeds as a positive to tell others not to be like him. If you can't see the potential for Vick to become a hero and a changed man in this then you are failing to understand what life and America is truly about.

I could go on and on about how many people have been allowed to continue to pursue their dreams and were made better people because of it - but you know this already.

Arthur Ashe helped me to understand a lot about this world and a lot more of us should follow that example.

[HaveFunExpectToWin]

With all the public outcry, it makes me want to root for the Eagles even more. What does this say about me?

[Jeffrey]

If you can't see the potential for Vick to become a hero and a changed man in this then you are failing to understand what life and America is truly about.

Vick may be/become your hero, but he is not mine.

Vick has the choice of being a changed man or giving up his dreams. No surprise, he is conforming. That does not make him my hero.


The guy has become the BEST spokesperson the Humane Society has EVER had especially in the area of dogfighting (which still continues to this day by the way).

Vick would have been a complete idiot not to recognize that he had to do this if he wanted to play in the NFL again and make as much money as possible post-prison. IMO, he had little choice but to denounce dogfighting.

[Bluedog]

The thing I find interesting is that how professional athletic teams and the business world act to differently to ex-convicts. Could you imagine a fortune 500 company hiring a new VP who just got released from prison after serving time for a federal felony conspiracy conviction? I sure can't. Honestly, it'd be hard for somebody with his criminal background getting a job flipping burgers at McDonald's in this economy with so many unemployed, let alone a multi-million dollar salary. I realize that his conviction doesn't have anything to do with his athletic ability, but neither would it have to do with somebody's business acumen (unless it was like tax fraud or something; but dogfighting sure isn't related), yet corporations would definitely NOT hire somebody with a similar criminal background. I'm all for second chances...I just find it strange how pro sports are really the only place where somebody like him could get a decent job.

Federal felony conspiracy + felony dogfighting = no job offers and no clients. Unless you're a really good athlete.

[allenmurray]

Just curious but how is winning with Vick playing with low "ideals"?

Seriously, you need to watch Andy Reid's press conference. The guy has become the BEST spokesperson the Humane Society has EVER had especially in the area of dogfighting (which still continues to this day by the way).

By all accounts, Vick has learned to take responsibility for his actions and is using his own misdeeds as a positive to tell others not to be like him. If you can't see the potential for Vick to become a hero and a changed man in this then you are failing to understand what life and America is truly about.

I could go on and on about how many people have been allowed to continue to pursue their dreams and were made better people because of it - but you know this already.

Arthur Ashe helped me to understand a lot about this world and a lot more of us should follow that example.

If somebody wants to hire him I have no problem with his playing. He served his time.

There is a big jump between having served your time in prison and being a hero. There are many, many professional atheltes who learned to take responsbility for their actions before they smashed dogs brains into the concrete, participated in an interstate gambling ring, lied to their employer about it, and then went to jail.

Should he be allowed to play football? Sure. But he is a long, long way from hero status. We should have higher standards than that for a hero.

[SupaDave]

The thing I find interesting is that how professional athletic teams and the business world act to differently to ex-convicts. Could you imagine a fortune 500 company hiring a new VP who just got released from prison after serving time for a federal felony conspiracy conviction? I sure can't. Honestly, it'd be hard for somebody with his criminal background getting a job flipping burgers at McDonald's in this economy with so many unemployed, let alone a multi-million dollar salary. I realize that his conviction doesn't have anything to do with his athletic ability, but neither would it have to do with somebody's business acumen (unless it was like tax fraud or something; but dogfighting sure isn't related), yet corporations would definitely NOT hire somebody with a similar criminal background. I'm all for second chances...I just find it strange how pro sports are really the only place where somebody like him could get a decent job.

Federal felony conspiracy + felony dogfighting = no job offers and no clients. Unless you're a really good athlete.

Only problem with this correlation is that Vick would be the equivalent of a normal employee in a fortune 500 corporation - and not a VP.

And trust me - I'm sure you encounter folks EVERYDAY with worse charges AT their jobs...

[A-Tex Devil]

The thing I find interesting is that how professional athletic teams and the business world act to differently to ex-convicts. Could you imagine a fortune 500 company hiring a new VP who just got released from prison after serving time for a federal felony conspiracy conviction? I sure can't. Honestly, it'd be hard for somebody with his criminal background getting a job flipping burgers at McDonald's in this economy with so many unemployed, let alone a multi-million dollar salary. I realize that his conviction doesn't have anything to do with his athletic ability, but neither would it have to do with somebody's business acumen (unless it was like tax fraud or something; but dogfighting sure isn't related), yet corporations would definitely NOT hire somebody with a similar criminal background. I'm all for second chances...I just find it strange how pro sports are really the only place where somebody like him could get a decent job.

Federal felony conspiracy + felony dogfighting = no job offers and no clients. Unless you're a really good athlete.


I agree that it seems like a bit of a paradox on the surface, but I think it makes sense. The issue is, who do you have to be accountable to?

So let's say a fortune 500 CEO is found to be the head of a brutal dog fighting organization. (I don't want to use rank and file employees, because I don't think that's an apt comparison. Why hire a felon when there are crapload of equivalent folks without the baggage?) Anyway, the CEO is fired, spends two years in jail, gets out, and is looking to come back to another fortune 500 company, maybe as a VP level guy. Well, you'll have to disclose that in an SEC filing as a Section 16 officer (unless he is really junior - but that's the equivalent of Vick going UFL), which will go out to your stockholders, which likely causes a negative drop in your stock immediately. Not to mention the press coverage.

So the Company and its stockholders lose money -- and the board would pretty much have to know this would happen upon hiring him. Now maybe this guy is talented enough to bring things back down the line, but the stockholders don't want to hear that. An individual hire that you know will adversely affect your stock price is not only bad for the obvious reasons, it could lead to a derivative suit later on. I'm not sure that type of hire could even satisfy the "Business Judgment Rule," which is typically a pretty easy duty to meet.

From the Eagles perspective, I doubt they lose a dime, and they could win more games, so the immediate financial harm is simply not there.

In other words. No way the Eagles get sued here unless Vick does something bad in his capacity as an Eagle. If a Board hired a similarly situated executive, they are setting themselves up for a shareholder lawsuit.

[SupaDave]

Vick may be/become your hero, but he is not mine.

Vick has the choice of being a changed man or giving up his dreams. No surprise, he is conforming. That does not make him my hero.

Vick would have been a complete idiot not to recognize that he had to do this if he wanted to play in the NFL again and make as much money as possible post-prison. IMO, he had little choice but to denounce dogfighting.

How do you know if it's conforming or actually deciding to take responsibility for his wrongs?

I've said it before - he does NOT have to return to the NFL. His financial situation may have been in bankruptcy but truthfully was not dire compared to how the average individual lives.

He could have EASILY gotten pissed, said to the hell to the world, and let all the boo birds bring him down and send him into reclusion. It seems that many of you forget this option (by the way, when was the last time you heard from Marcus?).

INSTEAD, he manned up and has done what has been asked of him by SOCIETY and also appears to have learned something in the process. That's something to be commended and respected regardless of the mitigating circumstances.

In my book, that IS a hero. So many people crumble from life's pressures. Those that give up are weak hearted in my book anyway and I don't care how much you've stayed out of trouble b/c you probably haven't lived.

Is Vick MY hero? No, of course not, I'm grown and don't really have much need for heroes but I most surely love a good comeback story and Vick has the ability and now the clarity to re-write his future.

[rasputin]

wow, with the last ten years being the drama-rama with TO and andy's kid, you'd never guess they would have gone for it.....

mcnabb prolly isn't too happy about that..

I read today that McNabb actually lobbied the Iggles to sign Vick.

[Jeffrey]

I've said it before - he does NOT have to return to the NFL. His financial situation may have been in bankruptcy but truthfully was not dire compared to how the average individual lives.

He could have EASILY gotten pissed, said to the hell to the world, and let all the boo birds bring him down and send him into reclusion. It seems that many of you forget this option (by the way, when was the last time you heard from Marcus?).

INSTEAD, he manned up and has done what has been asked of him by SOCIETY and also appears to have learned something in the process. That's something to be commended and respected regardless of the mitigating circumstances.

In my book, that IS a hero. So many people crumble from life's pressures. Those that give up are weak hearted in my book anyway......

Clearly, you're much more impressed by Vick's recent actions than I. Conforming to anti-dogfighting speak and playing in the NFL again, while making millions of dollars a year, impresses you more than me. Many people sacrifice more to keep their dreams alive and most of those dreams are not making millions of dollars a year to play in the NFL.


....and I don't care how much you've stayed out of trouble b/c you probably haven't lived.


Please, explain what you mean by that comment.

[SupaDave]

Clearly, you're much more impressed by Vick's recent actions than I. Conforming to anti-dogfighting speak and playing in the NFL again, while making millions of dollars a year, impresses you more than me. Many people sacrifice more to keep their dreams alive and most of those dreams are not making millions of dollars a year to play in the NFL.

Please, explain what you mean by that comment.

This is life and Vick is seeking redemption from people who truly have nothing to do with his everyday life. It's not about how many times you fall down but how many times you get back up.

Some of you guys are skewing things. He's no VP getting hired by some new company. He's a FORMER employee who was allowed to re-enter his profession just like Marv Albert, Pete Rose, Robert Downey Jr, Lindsay Lohan, and so on and so forth. Even doctors and lawyers who have lost licenses are offered shots at getting them back.

People make mistakes - that's why the average employer outsources counseling for a number of ailments, addictions, and disorders.

And if you don't make mistakes, I need to see your free pass on life...

[Jeffrey]

I'll try again........



....and I don't care how much you've stayed out of trouble b/c you probably haven't lived.

Please, explain what you mean by that comment.

[allenmurray]

Some of you guys are skewing things. He's no VP getting hired by some new company. He's a FORMER employee who was allowed to re-enter his profession just like Marv Albert, Pete Rose, Robert Downey Jr, Lindsay Lohan, and so on and so forth. Even doctors and lawyers who have lost licenses are offered shots at getting them back.


Absolutely. However, I still do not see how that makes him a hero.

[allenmurray]

I'll try again........



Please, explain what you mean by that comment.

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey (which doesn't happen al lot ;) )I know many people who have lived incredibly full lives, yet have not beaten dogs to death, run gambling rings, been convicted of felonies, lied about it, and spent time in prison.

[Bluedog]

SupaDave, I personally agree with you that Vick deserves a second chance and I don't have much of a problem with it. He has paid his debt to society, filed for bankruptcy, expressed remorse (although he's had no choice), and I don't think we should not allow people to return to work. He has already paid a heavy price. Random comment: PETA annoys me, although I do like the anti-cruelty society.

I just find it somewhat strange that pro athletes are held to such a different standard than other industries.


Even doctors and lawyers who have lost licenses are offered shots at getting them back.

Really? I don't know of any. How would a doctor/lawyer conceivably get clients when they had their license revoked at one point in their career? You think Nifong is going to practice law again anytime soon? And he was just convicted contempt of court (a far less severe crime; obviously, that's much more related to his profession, though, than Vick's charges).


He's no VP getting hired by some new company. He's a FORMER employee who was allowed to re-enter his profession just like Marv Albert, Pete Rose, Robert Downey Jr, Lindsay Lohan, and so on and so forth

He is getting hired by a new organization. He's not going back to the Falcons with the same management. Obviously, it's the same industry, but he's NOT a "former" employee. That's like saying somebody is a former employee of Goldman Sachs when he/she used to work at Morgan Stanley....I guess it's still under the umbrella of the NFL, but his contract itself is with a particular team. And he's probably get paid a lot more than most VPs. You just named former athletes and actors (except Marv Albert). I guess actors can be included on the "held to different standard" list. And those guys had less severe criminal records than Vick. Vick was convicted of federal conspiracy and dogfighting felony charges. Those are heavy duty.


And trust me - I'm sure you encounter folks EVERYDAY with worse charges AT their jobs...

This would surprise me. Worse charges than Vick's? There's not much left besides rape and murder (perhaps that's a bit hyberbole, though). I don't know if there's really a hierarchy of charges, but federal conspiracy charges are up there for sure. I sure hope I don't come across rapists and murderers every day who have jobs that pay them ridiculous sums of money.

[Jeffrey]

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey (which doesn't happen al lot ;) )

My calendar must be wrong. This must be Friday the 13th. :D

[allenmurray]

My calendar must be wrong. This must be Friday the 13th. :D

It is not unlucky for us to agree - just unusual.

[Jeffrey]

It is not unlucky for us to agree - just unusual.

Some consider Friday the 13th to be a good luck day. One thing everyone should agree on.... Friday the 13th is rare.

[JasonEvans]

I just find it somewhat strange that pro athletes are held to such a different standard than other industries.


Really? I don't. I don't understand how folks are making the absurd comparison of Michael Vick to a "regular employee."

There is almost nothing about professional sports that resembles mainstream industry. Everything in pro sports is more public and analyzed. Your employees are much, much, much higher compensated than at normal companies (sure, some CEOs make more than star athletes, but how many companies pay their lowest ranking employee several hundred thousand dollars a year?). What's more, the competition for employees is a much bigger deal than in other industries.

In fact, the only other industry close to pro sports would be the film/TV entertainment industry. And, no surprise, that is an industry that forgives misdeeds in much the way sports does. Look at Robert Downey Jr or Mel Gibson or the many other stars who have gotten in trouble with the law and been welcomed back into Hollywood.

--Jason "Vick is no hero but he deserves a chance to earn a living and show that he has learned from his past" Evans

[SupaDave]

I'm with you on this one Jeffrey (which doesn't happen al lot ;) )I know many people who have lived incredibly full lives, yet have not beaten dogs to death, run gambling rings, been convicted of felonies, lied about it, and spent time in prison.

Well when I say stay out of trouble - it means just that. To achieve some things in this life sometimes there are boundaries that have to be pushed - even when it only deals with the recreational stuff.

When I say stay out of trouble I don't mean trying to avoid felonies. Shoot, I'm willing to bet an arm that there are very few posters on this board who haven't received a stern warning from an authority figure.

People have lost gold medals b/c of doping - which doesn't hurt me one bit and hurts the athlete's reputation tremendously - but you can't take away that feeling of winning that race.

Sure - Vick doesn't have to be YOUR hero but he was a hero to a LOT of kids before his past came to light and to watch him rise again after such adversity and own up to his own stupidity is something that shouldn't be admonished. People still got their jerseys here in Atlanta - trust me on that.

[Channing]

Well when I say stay out of trouble - it means just that. To achieve some things in this life sometimes there are boundaries that have to be pushed - even when it only deals with the recreational stuff.

When I say stay out of trouble I don't mean trying to avoid felonies. Shoot, I'm willing to bet an arm that there are very few posters on this board who haven't received a stern warning from an authority figure.

People have lost gold medals b/c of doping - which doesn't hurt me one bit and hurts the athlete's reputation tremendously - but you can't take away that feeling of winning that race.

Sure - Vick doesn't have to be YOUR hero but he was a hero to a LOT of kids before his past came to light and to watch him rise again after such adversity and own up to his own stupidity is something that shouldn't be admonished. People still got their jerseys here in Atlanta - trust me on that.

(1) I don't see how running a dog fighting ring, and, imo, the moral depravity that went along with it (electrocuting dogs, forced procreation etc.) falls into anyone's category of "pushing the boundaries". Mark McGuire used Andro - that was pushing the boundaries. What Vick did was a felony for which he paid his debt. The only boundary he pushed was how long he could lie about it once he got caught.

(2) Not all mistakes are created equal. Getting a warning to be more productive at work, not drive so fast, etc can all get you a stern warning. They are not in the same stratosphere as a felony conviction and federal criminal charges.

(3) You are right. He was a lot of people's hero in Atlanta. If he is still someone's hero I think it is a statement about society. There are far more deserving heros out there. I often hear that African American children need role models in their own community - how about Obama for one. In the sporting world, Warrick Dunn is a great choice. There is no need to idolize criminal behavior and the lifestyle that went along with it.

(4) I also see some Vick jersey's around town, although not that many. I think/hope they wear them to show support for Vick, and not because they condone and approve his behavior. If they want to wear them in honor of his redemption, don't you think they should wait until he actually, you know, does something to redeem himself?

[DukeUsul]

I'm all for the man having a second chance at life. He has a right to get his life back on track and earn a living.

That does not mean that it's the right thing to do for the Eagles to hire him to represent their team, their fans and their beloved city. There is a point at which a coach or other leader has to say "you do these things, and you're not worthy to wear our uniform." We see it occasionally, and we've seen it here at Duke more often under Cut. Just because Vick served his time and has a right to get his life back does not make it right for him to represent my city.

[SupaDave]

I'm all for the man having a second chance at life. He has a right to get his life back on track and earn a living.

That does not mean that it's the right thing to do for the Eagles to hire him to represent their team, their fans and their beloved city. There is a point at which a coach or other leader has to say "you do these things, and you're not worthy to wear our uniform." We see it occasionally, and we've seen it here at Duke more often under Cut. Just because Vick served his time and has a right to get his life back does not make it right for him to represent my city.

THIS CITY?

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime/

[Channing]

THIS CITY?

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime/

i am missing the point of this post?:confused:?

[SupaDave]

There is almost nothing about professional sports that resembles mainstream industry. Everything in pro sports is more public and analyzed. Your employees are much, much, much higher compensated than at normal companies (sure, some CEOs make more than star athletes, but how many companies pay their lowest ranking employee several hundred thousand dollars a year?). What's more, the competition for employees is a much bigger deal than in other industries.

Maybe you've never worked in construction but in my industry there are a few people who get away with murder simply b/c they are the only ones who can do certain things. A welder is sometimes worth his weight in gold and I promise you if he's good he'll get hired even if he has a rape on his rap sheet. Not just that but certain specialty contractors will leave your job hanging sometimes if offered an appropiate amount of money.

[SupaDave]

i am missing the point of this post?:confused:?

Just look at the crime rates...

[Jeffrey]

THIS CITY?

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/pa/philadelphia/crime/

Is that where Vick's brother lives?

[Channing]

Just look at the crime rates...

I did ... I still dont understand your post. Is your point its OK for Philly to sign vick because they have a high crime rate? I seriously dont understand the point of posting Philly's crime statistics, when the poster was, presumably, making a statement about their personal feelings.

[RelativeWays]

As a Saints fan I hated Vick and how he abused my poor team. I'm just glad he's gone from the NFC South.

As a dog owner (one a rescue and one a stray) I found Vick's actions reprehensible, I can't see hurting an animal like that.

As someone who likes to claim having Christian beliefs ( and I don't mean the conservative moral majority) I truly believe that Vick deserves a second chance and I hope he becomes not only a successful player, but also a successful member of the community. I hope that the ASPCA or the Humane Society can get past the typical self righteous indignation and that they and Vick will reach out to each other and help create a positive from this.

I don't believe you can truly change someone by constantly browbeating them or ostracizing them or continuing to hold a grudge. If they are truly intent on changing, whatever their reasons, you can do more by reaching out to that person.

[SupaDave]

I did ... I still dont understand your post. Is your point its OK for Philly to sign vick because they have a high crime rate? I seriously dont understand the point of posting Philly's crime statistics, when the poster was, presumably, making a statement about their personal feelings.

To break it down for you. The point is in reference to the poster referencing HIS city as if Michael Vick "representing" HIS city as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles is somehow tarnishing the city's image. You've got to be freaking kidding me. Have you ever BEEN to Philly? This is one city that will get over it and move on - ESPECIALLY if they get to catch lightning in a bottle.

The team has embraced him - including the owner and the coach. I'm sure they will be sensitive to the public's needs but if you've been watching Sportscenter any today then you would realize that they've made their mind up with Vick and any interference could just cost YOU dearly. Then those idiots will have their own charges to contend with.

It's fine to be unhappy with your team's choices but if it's your team then it's your team and you should try and be supportive no matter the circumstances - something we all try and practice around here at the DBR.

On a moral level we all know what Vick did was wrong but if you're not from our neck of the woods then you also don't understand some of the normalcy of it and why many folks just don't see it as such a bad thing. But guess what? We ALL learned something. Dogfighting has long been one of those things that goes on and noone ever gets caught. I know cops who got their dogs straight from pit farms - no license necessary. You think they would do that NOW?

You have to be able to see beyond all the smoke and mirrors sometime and see that we have a real chance to accomplish something here. It seems that Vick does and he's making the most of his time. He coulda pulled a Lawrence Phillips and perhaps many of you aren't realizing just how often that happens to athletes after mistakes.

We've gleefully at times watched the fall of athletes. No need to name names but just as it seems that some of your hatred is motivated by the amount of money that these people make these same athletes suffer consequences that the common man also never would. Many have crumpled from the media alone. The scrutiny would make you claustrophobic.

Vick is a young man. The book on Vick is far from over. If he does what he says then just a few years from now this will all seem like a distant memory (insert memory of athlete gone good here)....

But I promise you that #7 jersey will sell - and that's just based on the number of profiles I saw changed to the Philly Eagles on facebook today (I've got a good test size)...

[cspan37421]

To break it down for you. The point is in reference to the poster referencing HIS city as if Michael Vick "representing" HIS city as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles is somehow tarnishing the city's image. You've got to be freaking kidding me. Have you ever BEEN to Philly? This is one city that will get over it and move on - ESPECIALLY if they get to catch lightning in a bottle.

Well, by the same indicator you cited for Philly, your own city of Atlanta actually is worse.

http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/ga/atlanta/crime/

Atlanta - safer than 1% of the cities in the USA (worse than Miami, Detroit, Chicago, even New Haven and Newark). Philly - 12%, I think topping all of those. Heh heh - so's mine! 1%. Yay Chattanooga. Must be scaled for population.

Couple other points. First, the word "mistake" is being used a lot, and IMO does not describe the situation. These activities did not occur by accident. To Vick's credit in his news conference today he more often framed it as bad choices he made, and bad behavior he engaged in, not as much a "mistake."

Second, I can't speak for everyone but I would guess that some of us remain skeptical of how genuine his change of heart is. There's no way to tell a difference between someone who is saying and doing all this stuff just to get back in the NFL and earn some serious coin while he still can (I don't suppose there's an engineering degree he can fall back on....) and someone who has had a genuine change of heart. Remember after his arrest there were lies, deception, and postures of piety. At what point did he turn from a phony to the real article? Many of us aren't sure if or when this happened.

Tony Dungy has gone way out of his way to help this guy get back in the NFL. What I couldn't tell is if Vick ever sought his help (though I'm sure he appreciates it, given how it has turned out).

Well anyway, he's no hero of mine either, though I hope he can maintain his distance from his former buddies and his old lifestyle, replace them with new ones.

[DukeUsul]

To break it down for you. The point is in reference to the poster referencing HIS city as if Michael Vick "representing" HIS city as a member of the Philadelphia Eagles is somehow tarnishing the city's image. You've got to be freaking kidding me. Have you ever BEEN to Philly? This is one city that will get over it and move on - ESPECIALLY if they get to catch lightning in a bottle.

The team has embraced him - including the owner and the coach. I'm sure they will be sensitive to the public's needs but if you've been watching Sportscenter any today then you would realize that they've made their mind up with Vick and any interference could just cost YOU dearly. Then those idiots will have their own charges to contend with.

It's fine to be unhappy with your team's choices but if it's your team then it's your team and you should try and be supportive no matter the circumstances - something we all try and practice around here at the DBR.

On a moral level we all know what Vick did was wrong but if you're not from our neck of the woods then you also don't understand some of the normalcy of it and why many folks just don't see it as such a bad thing. But guess what? We ALL learned something. Dogfighting has long been one of those things that goes on and noone ever gets caught. I know cops who got their dogs straight from pit farms - no license necessary. You think they would do that NOW?

You have to be able to see beyond all the smoke and mirrors sometime and see that we have a real chance to accomplish something here. It seems that Vick does and he's making the most of his time. He coulda pulled a Lawrence Phillips and perhaps many of you aren't realizing just how often that happens to athletes after mistakes.

We've gleefully at times watched the fall of athletes. No need to name names but just as it seems that some of your hatred is motivated by the amount of money that these people make these same athletes suffer consequences that the common man also never would. Many have crumpled from the media alone. The scrutiny would make you claustrophobic.

Vick is a young man. The book on Vick is far from over. If he does what he says then just a few years from now this will all seem like a distant memory (insert memory of athlete gone good here)....

But I promise you that #7 jersey will sell - and that's just based on the number of profiles I saw changed to the Philly Eagles on facebook today (I've got a good test size)...
You can take your opinion about Philly and...... go fly a kite.

There are a lot of fine people in Philadelphia who love their city and don't care to see this "young man" represent them. I don't know who your Facebook friends are that support this decision, but EVERY SINGLE ONE of my friends from back home has been up in arms on FB over the signing.

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding supporting your team no matter the circumstances. I know if Duke signed a convicted dogfighting financer as an athlete or coach, this whole site would be up in arms and rightfully so.

[NYC Duke Fan]

If somebody wants to hire him I have no problem with his playing. He served his time.

There is a big jump between having served your time in prison and being a hero. There are many, many professional atheltes who learned to take responsbility for their actions before they smashed dogs brains into the concrete, participated in an interstate gambling ring, lied to their employer about it, and then went to jail.

Should he be allowed to play football? Sure. But he is a long, long way from hero status. We should have higher standards than that for a hero.

Sorry to respectfully disagree. He served his time as a debt to society. What he did was dispicable, and it was not a one-time thing that he did. He did it over and over. Goodell should have banned him from the NFL for life. Let him pursue another line of work...he disgraced pro football and should never have been allowed back.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I was raised in Philadelphia and am a lifelong Eagles fan.

My first thought was "I wish that they had not signed him." What Vick did was not some one time thing that might be blamed on bad judgment or weakness or immaturity or passion or whatever. He continually abused and tortured and killed dogs.

But he did the time. He deserves a chance to earn a living at what he does best.

I do doubt how sincere Vick is now. Obviously he needs to say what he is saying.

I guess I am back to my first thought. It is okay with me that Vick is back in the NFL but I wish he was not with the Eagles.

Of course I am also content with losing with the type of people K recruits rather than winning with some we play against. Much happier when we win, but proud of the players that have represented us.

SoCal

[cspan37421]

I have no idea what you're talking about regarding supporting your team no matter the circumstances. I know if Duke signed a convicted dogfighting financer as an athlete or coach, this whole site would be up in arms and rightfully so.

I agree, and meant to add that as another point - the "my team, right or wrong" is not an attitude I have, and I hope most Duke fans would feel the same. If we had a reputation for recruiting violations, fake SAT scores, fraudulent coursework or majors, I would not be a Duke basketball fan. Loyalty and trust is earned and if systematically violated (i.e., not a "mistake"), it should be withdrawn.

[SupaDave]

But oh those jerseys are selling...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4401105

[SoCalDukeFan]

I agree, and meant to add that as another point - the "my team, right or wrong" is not an attitude I have, and I hope most Duke fans would feel the same. If we had a reputation for recruiting violations, fake SAT scores, fraudulent coursework or majors, I would not be a Duke basketball fan. Loyalty and trust is earned and if systematically violated (i.e., not a "mistake"), it should be withdrawn.

but there is a still a lot of support for coaches that have some questionable players.

John Cal is being welcomed with generally open arms at Kentucky for example.
The whole state seems to love the UConnvicts for another.

SoCal

[JasonEvans]

I think the difference in opinions over fan reaction to the Vick signing may be at least partly a factor of race.

Here in Atlanta, numerous polls as well as anecdotal evidence showed that Vick had much stronger support in the African-American community than he did in the suburban white areas. Atlanta has 2 sportstalk radio stations and one of them has a show that caters very much to the African-American audience. Listening to the different radio talk shows and hearing their listeners, you get totally different views on Vick. I was listening to the Af-Am talk show on Friday and heard some folks say that they would be supporting the Eagles and changing to Eagle fans. I cannot say for sure, but I suspect most of the folks who were vocally supporting Vick were African-Americans.

This may be playing out somewhat similarly to the OJ case, where different segments of society had different views of the star athlete in legal trouble. I am not at all saying that all Blacks will feel one way about Vick and all whites feel the other way-- not at all. I am merely observing that there may be some cultural biases at play in our view of the situation and when someone says, "all my friends think Vick is evil/deserves a second chance" they should consider who their friends are allow for the fact that there may be a large segment of the population who disagrees with their view.

I am not sure this post accomplished anything worthwhile, but it took some time to write so I am hitting the button and taking it live ;)

--Jason "I sorta see this debate as silly-- Vick is signed and will be an Eagle" Evans

[Indoor66]

--Jason "I sorta see this debate as silly-- Vick is signed and will be an Eagle" Evans

I agree with your signature sentiment. He broke the law, was convicted and society declared his penalty. He has paid that penalty. Let's play football. End of issue.

[DukeUsul]

--Jason "I sorta see this debate as silly-- Vick is signed and will be an Eagle" Evans

It's not silly if you are an Eagles fan and have to decide how you want to (or don't want to) support the team.

[Turk]

Everything I'm reading on this says The Powers That Be are going to make Vick grovel, roll over, play dead, sit up, beg, and fetch at their whim. With the Beagles' help, he is supposed to be "reaching out" to assorted animal rights groups around Philly prove good faith and "acceptable" remorse. Vick has no choice but to take whatever the NFL dishes out, and if they don't like how it's going, they can kick Vick to the curb any time they want.

As for Philly, it could work here - the management aren't egomaniacs in the Jerry Jones mold, and I think they are genuine in their desire to see Vick on the right path. But let's be realistic - there is huge football upside for them. We wouldn't be having this conversation if Vick was some third-string O-lineman.

Polls in yesterday's Inky had it 51-49% on the pro-Vick side, so there are a lot of people with both DUsul's and SupaD's viewpoints. Me, I am not a pet owner nor an Eagle fan, so I don't have a dog in this fight. (ouch). Vick's crimes had nothing to do with football (other than PR), and we already know athletes get the benefit of a double standard, so I think any comparisons to the corporate world are completely bogus.

I will predict that the only reasonable goal for Vick and the Eagles will just get through this season somehow. He might actually play in the second half of the season, and next year will be the real test of his football comeback. The cynic in me says that too many people have too much money at stake to let this fail...

[bird]

Individuals with much less in the way of mitigating factors, with more clear reprehensible characters and with worse offenses have found a happy home in the NFL.

[SupaDave]

Just an update...


Vick's replica Eagles jersey, which retails for $79.99, was the top seller on NFLShop.com as of Wednesday. Jersey maker Reebok did not return calls for comment.

And it's also on the front page...

http://www.nflshop.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=2237409

Oh to be a QB - Vick and Favre are dominating the headlines. Normal foolishness such as Edwards case of the dropsies, Marshall's law troubles, random arrests, and Brady's return have all fallen to the wayside.

[allenmurray]

McDonalds sells more hamburgers than any other restaurant. That doesn't make them the best. It just shows the incredbily poor taste of the American public.

[YourLandlord]

The hot topic on Mike & Mike this morning: You can log onto nflshop.com and order a customized Eagles dog jersey with any name on the back. While certain words and profanity are blocked, the name "VICK" is not. The NFL has released a statement that it doesn't see a problem with this.

http://www.nflshop.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2942158&origkw=Eagles+Pet+Jersey&sr=1&kw=eagles+pet+jersey&parentPage=search

[SupaDave]

The hot topic on Mike & Mike this morning: You can log onto nflshop.com and order a customized Eagles dog jersey with any name on the back. While certain words and profanity are blocked, the name "VICK" is not. The NFL has released a statement that it doesn't see a problem with this.

http://www.nflshop.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2942158&origkw=Eagles+Pet+Jersey&sr=1&kw=eagles+pet+jersey&parentPage=search

Yeah b/c you know, other people have the last name Vick too...

[YourLandlord]

Yeah b/c you know, other people have the last name Vick too...

Not many

NAME (last)
VICK 0.007

%FREQ
0.007

FREQ RANK
1912

So, ~ 21,000. How many of those are a) Eagles fans, b) have a dog, c) would willingly associate Vick with their own dog, and d) buy apparel?

by the way, how cool is this stat?:
According the 2000 Census, 13.97% of Americans have a surname which occurs fewer than 100 times in the population.

That is wild for a country with 300,00,000 people.

[SupaDave]

Not many

NAME (last)
VICK 0.007

%FREQ
0.007

FREQ RANK
1912

So, ~ 21,000. How many of those are a) Eagles fans, b) have a dog, c) would willingly associate Vick with their own dog, and d) buy apparel?

by the way, how cool is this stat?:
According the 2000 Census, 13.97% of Americans have a surname which occurs fewer than 100 times in the population.

That is wild for a country with 300,00,000 people.

Well at least I know my tax dollars are being used efficiently...

[SupaDave]

Wow - that got me to thinking and this is totally off thread but since they had the time to break the name Vick down to the very last compound I thought I'd take a look at the Census funding.

Do they actually have a surplus or is it really a technical mistake?
http://www.independentsector.org/programs/gr/Census_Bureau_Funding_2010.htm

[YourLandlord]

Wow - that got me to thinking and this is totally off thread but since they had the time to break the name Vick down to the very last compound I thought I'd take a look at the Census funding.

Do they actually have a surplus or is it really a technical mistake?
http://www.independentsector.org/programs/gr/Census_Bureau_Funding_2010.htm

It looks like they incorrectly assumed there was a surplus, resulting in a current deficit? That article is unclear.

This is staggering though: $7.3 billion for the census effort. That efficiency would not impress Caeser Augustus.