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SupaDave
08-11-2009, 03:30 PM
Is it starting to make a difference? I've noticed a lot more scrutiny on players and a definite change in how players approach making it to the league. What do you think?

moonpie23
08-11-2009, 04:20 PM
it's a bogus piece of crap and should be challenged in court.


It's nothing more than a stop gap due to poor self control and self-restraint from bad decisions by NBA gm's who've squandered millions on the Kwame Brown's of the world.

SupaDave
08-11-2009, 04:29 PM
it's a bogus piece of crap and should be challenged in court.


It's nothing more than a stop gap due to poor self control and self-restraint from bad decisions by NBA gm's who've squandered millions on the Kwame Brown's of the world.

But isn't that what ANY good company does? Put constraints on its employees? Very rarely does upper management fall into the scrutiny that the employees do (unless your name is Mark Cuban).

You don't have to play in the NBA - you could be a YMCA all-star. B/c ya know, colleges have requirements too...

sagegrouse
08-11-2009, 04:33 PM
it's a bogus piece of crap and should be challenged in court.


It's nothing more than a stop gap due to poor self control and self-restraint from bad decisions by NBA gm's who've squandered millions on the Kwame Brown's of the world.

Presumably, by the tone of your writing, you believe the NBA GM's not only make stupid decisions but are also unable to learn from their mistakes and, furthermore, that the owners of the teams do not care whether their GMs make good decisions. Isn't this challenging basic Darwinian principles?

WRT to any court case, I believe there is a difference between a unilateral and arbitrary rule set by the owners and the product of collective bargaining with a duly certified union.

sagegrouse

Matches
08-11-2009, 04:47 PM
I don't like its effect on college bball, as it leads to lots of people matriculating who have no interest in being on a college campus. Players leaving after their freshman seasons was always a possibility, of course, as we saw with Maggette and Deng - but with some of these "one and doners" it seems like a fait accompli. I don't think the NCAA should be a glorified minor league for the NBA.

It's hard to say whether it's had a discernable impact on the pro game. I'm enjoying the pro game more now than I was a few years ago, but much of that has to do with the emergence of Lebron as the league's signature player, among other likeable young stars. Maybe someone like Kevin Durant will end up being a poster child for why that one year of school is worthwhile, but right now it's too early for me to say.

Matches
08-11-2009, 04:50 PM
Presumably, by the tone of your writing, you believe the NBA GM's not only make stupid decisions but are also unable to learn from their mistakes and, furthermore, that the owners of the teams do not care whether their GMs make good decisions. Isn't this challenging basic Darwinian principles?



Darwin never encountered the Los Angeles Clippers. :D

pfrduke
08-11-2009, 06:43 PM
I don't like its effect on college bball, as it leads to lots of people matriculating who have no interest in being on a college campus.

"Lots" is a bit of an overstatement. There are, roughly, 4000 division I basketball players in the United States. About 5-10 each year enroll solely because of the NBA's rule. That's less than a third of a percent of college basketball players. This rule impacts an extremely small number of individuals, and a similarly small number of colleges.

jesus_hurley
08-11-2009, 09:33 PM
it's a bogus piece of crap and should be challenged in court.

Maurice Clarett failed in his attempt to challenge the NFL's age limits.

moonpie23
08-11-2009, 10:39 PM
Maurice Clarett failed in his attempt to challenge the NFL's age limits.

and NC failed to pass legislation banning public smoking UNTIL now...

the difference between the NBA and "any good company" is that the NBA enjoys a monopoly of sorts. (without getting to specific on the laws)...


hollywood could NEVER pass a "rule" saying that you can't make movie until you've been out of high school, or until you're a certain age. Record labels could not do similar because the COMPETITION would bust that wide open...

the NBA has no competition...

don't even start about the d-league...


the reason for this rule is team vs. team competition within the league. It's obvious that Stern and owners can't reign in their GM's from spewing money after hype.....no gm can afford to allow another team to get the next kobe, dwight, or KG......they just can't let that happen...

so they install this bogus rule...trust me, if lebron was a junior right now, they would be figuring out a way to get him in...

mo.st.dukie
08-11-2009, 10:58 PM
I don't like its effect on college bball, as it leads to lots of people matriculating who have no interest in being on a college campus. Players leaving after their freshman seasons was always a possibility, of course, as we saw with Maggette and Deng - but with some of these "one and doners" it seems like a fait accompli. I don't think the NCAA should be a glorified minor league for the NBA.


How many players actually are the type of one-n-dones that have no interest in being on a college campus? Maybe 5. By the way, if they really don't want to go to college there are other options like Europe.

There are always going to be problems in college ball even without the one-n-done rule. There will always be players that take money as amateurs, that don't go to class second semester because they know they will be drafted high, and there will always be kids who view college as a necessary 1-2 year stop before the NBA even without the one year rule. If a college coach doesn't want to deal with the issues that the small 1-2% of players that don't want to be in college then simply don't recruit him (obviously Calipari has no problem with it).

IMO, it's not the rule that is the main problem but rather grassroots basketball (AAU, Sonny Vacarro, Nike, Reebok, Addidas, recruiting services, nationally televised high school games, etc.). It seems that some efforts are being made to clean-up youth basketball and Coach K is helping out with the iHoops thing.

sagegrouse
08-11-2009, 11:13 PM
and NC failed to pass legislation banning public smoking UNTIL now...

the difference between the NBA and "any good company" is that the NBA enjoys a monopoly of sorts. (without getting to specific on the laws)...


hollywood could NEVER pass a "rule" saying that you can't make movie until you've been out of high school, or until you're a certain age. Record labels could not do similar because the COMPETITION would bust that wide open...

the NBA has no competition...

don't even start about the d-league...


the reason for this rule is team vs. team competition within the league. It's obvious that Stern and owners can't reign in their GM's from spewing money after hype.....no gm can afford to allow another team to get the next kobe, dwight, or KG......they just can't let that happen...

so they install this bogus rule...trust me, if lebron was a junior right now, they would be figuring out a way to get him in...

I won't rehash my previous comment... only add some random thoughts, which is as good as it gets for the old Sage Grouse.

WRT "no competition," that remains to be seen. Sure, there is only one serious professional league in the North America, but there is competition for players. The Nuggest just lost Linus Kleiza to a team in Greece, which was willing to pay $12 million over two years. Now, as a European, Linus does not count against the limit on Americans or other furriners in the European leagues.

WRT to team vs. team competition: I believe this is fairly trivial. It is obvious that a league will decide the rules under which teams can recruit and sign players and field a team. All the professional leagues do it, as a matter of routine. The Sixers and the Warriors have to play by the same set of rules. (I do remember a period when that didn't happen. Duirng the 1950s, when the league ws trying to survive, there were regional draft picks that protected players who had gone to local colleges and high schools. Thus, the Warriors (then in Phila.) got big Wilt because he went to HS there.)

I do't understand why the rules for entering the NBA aren't even more restrictive. The union benefits veteran players by restricting competition from younger players. The NBA gets benefits if the players that enter the league are already well known. But I don't trust my judgment because I would really like to see four years the norm for college hoops.

sagegrouse

jimsumner
08-12-2009, 03:46 PM
"it's a bogus piece of crap and should be challenged in court."

Sagegrouse is absolutely correct. There is no grounds for challenging this in court. Lots of piece of crap laws are legally sound.

And no, I'm not a lawyer. But I stayed in a Holiday Inn last night. :)

wilko
08-12-2009, 04:17 PM
If I'm a veteran in the twighlight of my career trying to have 1 last charge to glory, the last thing I need is some green punk kid getting in the way.

Particularly a very hyped overpaid one.
Who cares about the age limit per se right? I mean really.

What the league really wants is mature Ambassadors that wont cause embarassment for themselves and the league.

A better approach would be to help that veteran who has paid his dues, and keep salaries in check for un-proven talent.

If I were in the players union I'd advocate a pay structure that increases for each year of college or degrees, years in college or substitute D-League and European Ball for eqivalent experience.

So if a HS cat is uber talented, fine let him go cash in... but his ceiling of earnings is much less.

jimsumner
08-12-2009, 04:43 PM
As far as I can tell, the NBA age-limit has not been a big sticking point in labor negotiations. Salary cap, ancillary income, etc. all seem to be the biggies.

I agree that it makes sense for the Union to place a premium on maintaining vets' jobs but the vets don't seem to care all that much.