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JasonEvans
08-04-2009, 03:37 PM
Here is an article (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insider/news/story?id=4376072&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d4376072)from ESPN's Jordan Brenner (gotta be an insider to read the whole thing) about Duke as one of 5 teams "at a crossroad" this season. The other crossroad teams are--

Oklahoma, Maryland, UConn, and UNC.

There are also 5 teams on the rise in Kentucky, Texas, Kansas, Michigan State, and WVa and then 5 teams headed down in Louisville, UCLA, Memphis, Arizona, and Syracuse. I am not sure how Mich State can be headed up when they made it to the National Title game but...

--Jason "those of you with Insider may enjoy the content here" Evans

ForeverBlowingBubbles
08-04-2009, 03:53 PM
Here is an article (http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insider/news/story?id=4376072&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2finsider%2fnews%2fstory%3fid%3d4376072)from ESPN's Jordan Brenner (gotta be an insider to read the whole thing) about Duke as one of 5 teams "at a crossroad" this season. The other crossroad teams are--

Oklahoma, Maryland, UConn, and UNC.

There are also 5 teams on the rise in Kentucky, Texas, Kansas, Michigan State, and WVa and then 5 teams headed down in Louisville, UCLA, Memphis, Arizona, and Syracuse. I am not sure how Mich State can be headed up when they made it to the National Title game but...

--Jason "those of you with Insider may enjoy the content here" Evans

Good article Jason. Thanks for the heads up.

OZZIE4DUKE
08-04-2009, 04:09 PM
Is the story football or basketball related? Or both!

miramar
08-04-2009, 04:49 PM
for the update. I like the general tone: "An ACC title is back in play."

BlueintheFace
08-04-2009, 04:56 PM
Bilas seems much more optimistic than Gottlieb. Even though I sometimes think Bilas overcompensates for his past, more often than not he seems to be right when he evaluates a team.

eightyearoldsdude
08-04-2009, 06:34 PM
I think that series of articles is more than a little weird. IMO, "crossroads" suggests a program is at a point where one or two factors could tilt it toward a period of long decline or one of success. In my view, that means a coach might leave or be fired, a program is flirting with NCAA sanctions, or a young coach is building some momentum with recruits.

I don't know anything about OK, but it's conceivable that MD and UConn could lose their coaches in the next couple years.

However, I don't think either Duke or UNC are anywhere near a "crossroads" and neither will be until retirement rumors swirl and start to affect recruiting. UNC has obviously enjoyed incredible success lately, and we are recruiting very well. Duke is on the upswing and K isn't going anywhere. Both programs are at the top of college basketball and will be until Roy or K retires.

I think Calipari will stay clean for a little while, and will be able to recruit the same kind of players he did at Memphis. But he's going to have a hard time cobbling together a championship team out of freshmen, and at some point the natives are going start looking for their pitchforks--and that's when he'll pull a recruiting violation. So I think UK is much closer to a crossroads than either Duke or UNC.

And if you aren't only looking at this season, Louisville is better characterized as a program on the rise. Pitino is a great coach.

SilkyJ
08-04-2009, 07:36 PM
I think that series of articles is more than a little weird. IMO, "crossroads" suggests a program is at a point where one or two factors could tilt it toward a period of long decline or one of success. In my view, that means a coach might leave or be fired, a program is flirting with NCAA sanctions, or a young coach is building some momentum with recruits.


I agree with you, and I wonder if they aren't more just talking about this season's team as opposed to the program as a whole. I also wonder if a better word would be "transition," and if the author isn't just basically saying that there are big question marks for these teams as they all lose talent, gain young talent, and mature some returning talent...of course I couldn't read the darn thing, but it would make sense to me:

Duke loses its best player as well as another up and comer and is going to have to have some younguns step up if we are going to be a FF team. UNC obviously loses the core of its nat'l championship team but has a good recruiting class as well. UConn loses its best post man and its best backcourt player/PG and brings in a top 15 recruiting class. OK loses the best player in the country and his brother and brings in a top 10 class. Maryland..well, they aren't quite in the same league as these other guys, but they only lose Dave Neal (I think) and definitely could shine this year with vasquez coming back and several other guys being a year older. They are obviously a big question mark. Could see them being the #3 team in the ACC, could also see them being 6-7.

Wander
08-04-2009, 11:46 PM
I think it's fair to put Duke in that group. If our class of 2010 somehow only turns out average - and my guess is that it will be great, but stranger things have happened - that would be probably end up being too many years without a Final Four for Duke to be considered in the same tier as UNC, Kansas, etc. On the other hand, if Singler and Barnes are playing together in 2011...

UNC at a crossroads and Michigan State on the rise don't make sense at all. They've been too good recently. I don't see any real logic behind the Louisville, Texas, or UCLA picks either. The others seem right.

I guess I'd add Florida to the decline list, I've never thought of Donovan as an elite coach, and the addition of the best recruiter in the country to his conference will make the decline official.

eightyearoldsdude
08-05-2009, 02:06 AM
I think it's fair to put Duke in that group. If our class of 2010 somehow only turns out average - and my guess is that it will be great, but stranger things have happened - that would be probably end up being too many years without a Final Four for Duke to be considered in the same tier as UNC, Kansas, etc. On the other hand, if Singler and Barnes are playing together in 2011...

UNC at a crossroads and Michigan State on the rise don't make sense at all. They've been too good recently. I don't see any real logic behind the Louisville, Texas, or UCLA picks either. The others seem right.

I guess I'd add Florida to the decline list, I've never thought of Donovan as an elite coach, and the addition of the best recruiter in the country to his conference will make the decline official.

I sort of agree about FL--I think Calipari is going to hurt Donovan's recruiting a little, but Donovan won those titles with under-the-radar guys, not high-profile-but-potential-NCAA-sanctions guys. That said, I'm not convinced Donovan is going to repeat that performance.

eightyearoldsdude
08-05-2009, 02:26 AM
PS: I voted for CIS in that Dean Dome vs. Cameron poll. I was (un)fortunate enough to attend the game in 1998 at CIS. Unforgettable.

jesus_hurley
08-05-2009, 01:08 PM
Dickie V's top 10 came out a bit ago. We came in at 5 behind ku, uk, msu and texas. UNC is 8. I think the average of the 2 rankings would be a good starting point for the season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/dickvitale/news/story?id=4361336

Azdukefan
08-05-2009, 01:37 PM
All of the holes are crying that they are ranked lower than us! I feel the #5 ranking could be high but it is more in line then that excuse of a website NBAdraft.net.

SilkyJ
08-05-2009, 03:43 PM
Is the nomination period for post of the year still open? I like your style, 80!

I almost spit up my coke when I read that.

Also, I thought his handle was 80 year old dude, but its not. Its "Eight Year Olds Dude" as in the the quote from the Big Lebowski.

SoCalDukeFan
08-05-2009, 07:18 PM
While I am optimistic about this season, I am also realistic and understand that we could be worse than last year.

But one good recruiting class and have everyone stay with the team and we are fine. And with K we can expect a good recruiting class in the not too distant future.

I am not an ESPN Insider and have not read the article but really do not understand the crossroads idea for Duke.

SoCal

Greg_Newton
08-05-2009, 08:12 PM
I think people are reading a little too much into this "crossroads" phrasing. I don't think he's implying Duke and Carolina are teetering on the verge of long-term program collapse, I think he's just saying things could go a couple different ways for them during this next recruiting cycle:

-Duke could land it's dream class next year, have Miles/Ryan/Mason live up to their potential, and return to the type of top to bottom talent-stacked perennial powerhouse we generally were from 1999-2006. Or, the chips may not fall in our favor and we could see the 2007-2009 trend continue.. there could be another 2-4 years of likeable, overachieving teams that don't quite have the raw firepower to make a serious dent in March unless they play heroically.

-Carolina is basically starting from scratch with all new personel and stars. Like Duke, it's not like their worst-case scenario is very scary, but it's very possible that their fresh crop of recruits won't pan out like McCants & co and Hansbro & co did. Henson & co. could be the next superstar class that continues their 2.5 years per championship trend, but they could also very well turn out to be the wave of (relatively) underwhelming recruits that results in Carolina playing second fiddle to Duke for a few years.

That's what I took his "crossroads" to mean - both programs are at the intersection of "dominant" and merely "very good." For Duke and UNC, it's always all relative.