Austin Rivers - where there is smoke, there is fire

[Big Pappa]

Great interview with Austin from the FIBA USA U-18 games:

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-vs-us-virgin-islands-post-game.html

[hedevil]

Sounds like Austin is pretty sure to be one and done. I like that he plainly states that Duke is his favored right now. Just waiting on the announcement.:D

I wish that the chemistry Quincy is having with Kyrie was enough to sway him towards Duke. Quincy says that Kyrie and John Wall are the best guards he has played with. The opportunity to play with one of them is right in front of him. Make the right choice Miller.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Great interview with Austin from the FIBA USA U-18 games:

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-vs-us-virgin-islands-post-game.html


"My goal is one and done and I think I can do that with my work ethic."

Doesn't sound like a "student-athlete" to me. Is Duke the best place for him?

[uh_no]

"My goal is one and done and I think I can do that with my work ethic."

Doesn't sound like a "student-athlete" to me. Is Duke the best place for him?

if he does his work for a year, i don't care whether he leaves or not....

i wish people would understand...there are one and done kids who are good students.....john wall is known to have been a great student at UK...

so can we stop ripping kids like austin just because they are good enough to achieve their dream of being in the NBA with 1 year of college ball

just because they don't intend to graduate does NOT mean they cannot be a student in the time they are in school

[MisterRoddy]

"My goal is one and done and I think I can do that with my work ethic."

Doesn't sound like a "student-athlete" to me. Is Duke the best place for him?

Yes.

[Big Pappa]

"My goal is one and done and I think I can do that with my work ethic."

Doesn't sound like a "student-athlete" to me. Is Duke the best place for him?

He lit it up effortlessly last night. We want him, whether it's for a year or four. Kyrie is most likely going to leave after one year, but no one is questioning his "student-athlete" commitment.

[WiJoe]

i wish people would understand...there are one and done kids who are good students.....john wall is known to have been a great student at UK...


You could not have given a worse example.

[rotogod00]

if he does his work for a year, i don't care whether he leaves or not....

i wish people would understand...there are one and done kids who are good students.....john wall is known to have been a great student at UK...

so can we stop ripping kids like austin just because they are good enough to achieve their dream of being in the NBA with 1 year of college ball

just because they don't intend to graduate does NOT mean they cannot be a student in the time they are in school

well said

[uh_no]

You could not have given a worse example.

you should read one of the other threads....wall reportedly attended classes throughout the second semester and had a 3+ gpa.....

"I don't think there's anything officially published since that would be a violation of FERPA. But the rumors are the John Wall was one of the best students on the team and completed his first year in good standing (that was substantiated by Cal)."

i'm pretty sure I picked a pretty good example actually....

[Jderf]

"My goal is one and done and I think I can do that with my work ethic."

Doesn't sound like a "student-athlete" to me. Is Duke the best place for him?

Both Kyle and Nolan are on record saying that if the situation was right, they would have declared early for the draft. Thankfully they didn't, but it sounds like they share the same view of college basketball as Rivers: a path to the NBA. Would you say Duke is not the best place for them, either? Would you say that Duke isn't the best place for Rivers just because he might be more NBA-ready than our current stars?

College is always a path to something bigger. Everybody goes to college so they can move forward in their careers. I don't see why we should discriminate against some because they want to do that in sport and not, say, engineering.

[Duke Mom]

Austin says his "goal is one and done," but also says "I could be there (Duke!) three if that's what's best." Individual goals vary - diploma, no diploma, I guess it's up to the athlete and the school to decide on the best fit. Considering all the years of dedication and effort these young people put into their sport, can't really judge anyone who has the talent, maturity and desire to turn pro early.

Regardless, it will be interesting to see what Coach K does with a new mix - how new freshman impact current starters, etc.

Great interview, good probing questions.

[uh_no]

College is always a path to something bigger. Everybody goes to college so they can move forward in their careers. I don't see why we should discriminate against some because they want to do that in sport and not, say, engineering.

i only don't discriminate when the course is sports or engineering.....its just those darn trinity kids.....friggin terrible

[Devilsfan]

We already have a Pratt grad in the NFL. Now we need one in the NBA. The state college of chapel hill has cameos of sports figures on there not so "jumbo" tron. We should have succesfull business grads on ours. Hi I'm .....CEO of .... Go Devils! We have an Alum of Whos Who in American Business and should take full advantage of it. And we don't have an under grad school of business like that college down the road, just smart, driven students.

[WiJoe]

i'm pretty sure I picked a pretty good example actually....

interested in some land? C'mon. Chances are better he NEVER saw the inside of a classroom than him earning a LEGIT gpa.

[uh_no]

interested in some land? C'mon. Chances are better he NEVER saw the inside of a classroom than him earning a LEGIT gpa.

or you're just so biased against UK and one and done players that you can't imagine someone who didn't choose duke might actually go to class.....

[Newton_14]

interested in some land? C'mon. Chances are better he NEVER saw the inside of a classroom than him earning a LEGIT gpa.

Why the hate on Wall? The reports are that he went to class last summer, the first semester, and the second semester and like Uh No reported, maintained a 3+ Grade Point average the entire time. Why is that so hard to comprehend?

We should not throw kids under the bus unless there is a valid reason. At this point I would say the actual evidence we have on Wall points to him being a good kid with good grades vs some terrible problem child who stays in trouble and never goes to class.

As for Austin, I hope he sticks around at least two years and "unpacks his bags" as K describes it, while he is here. Same for Kyrie.

Good reporting job from Texas by our own Big Pappa. He is like super reporter this weekend!

[El_Diablo]

interested in some land? C'mon. Chances are better he NEVER saw the inside of a classroom than him earning a LEGIT gpa.

He was taking high school algebra (i.e. the class that most Duke students took in 7th grade). Why is it so hard to believe he got a B or higher in classes like that?

If the UK program was somehow fabricating grades for their athletes (a claim that you obviously can't substantiate), then don't you think they'd at least give the rest of the team the minimum grades needed to pass?

[WiJoe]

He was taking high school algebra (i.e. the class that most Duke students took in 7th grade).

He took HIGH SCHOOL ALGEBRA at the UNIVERSITY OF KENTUCKY?


they'd at least give the rest of the team the minimum grades needed to pass?

Give? GIVE?

Meanwhile, apologies for driving the thread off track.

[Faison1]

Great interview with Austin from the FIBA USA U-18 games:

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-vs-us-virgin-islands-post-game.html

Does my experience with the Barnes recruitment make me overly sensitive to any UNC talk? I didn't find the interview too reassuring.

Thanks to Airowe and Pappa for all the work you guys did down there. I know I've asked before, but could one of you send some confidence my way in regards to Austin? I know there's no guarantees, but man, I don't want to go through that again.....

[-jk]

I know I've asked before, but could one of you send some confidence my way in regards to Austin? I know there's no guarantees, but man, I don't want to go through that again.....

Sorry, no can do. We're talking high school kids. Teens. A notoriously unpredictable species when encountered in their natural habitat.

-jk

[WiJoe]

Does my experience with the Barnes recruitment make me overly sensitive to any UNC talk? I didn't find the interview too reassuring.

Thanks to Airowe and Pappa for all the work you guys did down there. I know I've asked before, but could one of you send some confidence my way in regards to Austin? I know there's no guarantees, but man, I don't want to go through that again.....

Overly sensitive? Heck no, ESPECIALLY after the prince harry fiasco. Huckleberry Roy is a big-time leech. The very definition of uninvited guest.

Until recruits guys show up for summer session, NOTHING is certain, signed letter of intent or not.

I'll second your thanks to Airowe and Pappa. THANKS, people!

[G man]

I think we need to be careful hating on one and done's. Lets be real they are part of the game. It does not hurt to bring a few into the fold. The only problem with one and done's is that they need supplemented with role-players and other talented players to help them reach maturity as quick as possible. One and done's don't win titles. I know I know Mello did, but he had a lot of help from talented players around him. As long as you have one maybe two at a time we will be fine! Early defections do hurt chemistry, but don't be naive and think we don't want some of these kids.

[monkey]

The only problem with one and done's is that they need supplemented with role-players and other talented players to help them reach maturity as quick as possible. One and done's don't win titles.

Not to be a stick in the mud (but I'm going to be I guess) - and not to hate on Rivers, who seems to be a good kid, but Duke is an elite level university, with a duty to educate its students with a view towards graduation. Someone who is intentionally only spending 1 year doesn't really seem in line with the idea of graduating students. Even if someone stays two years, they have a decent shot to actually eventually graduate. And if someone intends to stay longer but life happens and they go, well, I can also understand that. But getting to the point where it's perfectly cool to go for 1 and dones doesn't sit perfectly well with me. This seems (IMHO) like what the late Senator Moynihan used to call "defining deviancy down" - and this seems a long way off from the idea that we wouldn't hang banners if one of the members of the team hadn't graduated - which, IIRC used to be the policy.

[CameronBornAndBred]

K's recruiting him (as he did Wall), but if he states up front that he is a one and done, I'd rather he go somewhere else. As long as the NBA has the one year limitation, these guys and this discussion will remain as a hot topic, but I find it hard to get behind a guy as a fan if I know he won't be there the following year. I was happy when we didn't land Wall, and I will be happy if we don't get Rivers. If he changes his mind and plans to actually make a commitment to Duke (meaning that he plans to be more than just a one year ball player), then I would excitedly welcome him.

[ACCBBallFan]

K's recruiting him (as he did Wall), but if he states up front that he is a one and done, I'd rather he go somewhere else. As long as the NBA has the one year limitation, these guys and this discussion will remain as a hot topic, but I find it hard to get behind a guy as a fan if I know he won't be there the following year. I was happy when we didn't land Wall, and I will be happy if we don't get Rivers. If he changes his mind and plans to actually make a commitment to Duke (meaning that he plans to be more than just a one year ball player), then I would excitedly welcome him.Throughout his recruitment, Austin has not shown to be as media savvy as many of his fellow recruits.

But to me the point is moot. All the top guys want to get to he NBA as soon as they are ready and unfortunately too many choose to do that prematurely.

But what's the difference between a guy who is thinking that and words it better about academics being important, not even thinking about that now etc and a guy who is brutally honest like Rivers was.

Given his inablility to make and stick to a decision though, Rivers if he enters the draft on time may not pull out in time.

Amazes me how a guy who seems to make good instant decisions on the court struggles so much doing so off the court.

[moonpie23]

A tarhole acquaintance of mine was trying to parry the elephant in the room of duke's success and snootedly said: "well, how did gerald henderson do this year?"

to which i responded : "about 2 million dollars"

she said, "you got that right, i KNEW he wasn't ready for the NBA !"

[CameronBornAndBred]

But what's the difference between a guy who is thinking that and words it better about academics being important, not even thinking about that now etc and a guy who is brutally honest like Rivers was.

I have no problem with him or anyone else saying it up front, in fact I appreciate it. But knowing that he has no intention of staying longer than one year makes me wish him well somewhere else. I would rather that K and his staff not recruit these guys.
Irving might turn out be a one and done player, but at least he has not said this is his intention (I think he even said he wanted to play for more than one year, but I'm not positive about that.)

[Class of '94]

A tarhole acquaintance of mine was trying to parry the elephant in the room of duke's success and snootedly said: "well, how did gerald henderson do this year?"

to which i responded : "about 2 million dollars"

she said, "you got that right, i KNEW he wasn't ready for the NBA !"

That is too funny......Feel free to ask her how Tyler was doing, especially since it seemed like he barely played that much this year due to all the injuries and illnesses he had.

[SilkyJ]

That is too funny......Feel free to ask her how Tyler was doing, especially since it seemed like he barely played that much this year due to all the injuries and illnesses he had.

I'd ask how Danny Green's breakdancing career has unfolded.

[Class of '94]

I'd ask how Danny Green's breakdancing career has unfolded.

SilkyJ....You are today's winner for the best post response. That is best line I've heard all day...:)

[COYS]

That is too funny......Feel free to ask her how Tyler was doing, especially since it seemed like he barely played that much this year due to all the injuries and illnesses he had.

Won't tyler be close to retirement age by next season?

Anyway, back to Austin. Austin wants to make it to the NBA as soon as he can because that would mean he is maximizing his potential. That alone does not mean he wouldn't value academics while at duke, nor does it mean that he couldn't benefit from or even enjoy being at a worldclass university for one year. Personally, I grew a ton and learned a ton during my freshman year. One year at duke would mean a lot to many people. Finally, there is no reason Austin can't graduate eventually, even if he stays for only one year. He didn't say he didn't care about college. He simply said that he wanted to go to the NBA as soon as possible. That does not preclude his embracing the duke experience if he chooses to spend his one year of college at duke.

[hughgs]

Not to be a stick in the mud (but I'm going to be I guess) - and not to hate on Rivers, who seems to be a good kid, but Duke is an elite level university, with a duty to educate its students with a view towards graduation. Someone who is intentionally only spending 1 year doesn't really seem in line with the idea of graduating students. Even if someone stays two years, they have a decent shot to actually eventually graduate. And if someone intends to stay longer but life happens and they go, well, I can also understand that. But getting to the point where it's perfectly cool to go for 1 and dones doesn't sit perfectly well with me. This seems (IMHO) like what the late Senator Moynihan used to call "defining deviancy down" - and this seems a long way off from the idea that we wouldn't hang banners if one of the members of the team hadn't graduated - which, IIRC used to be the policy.

Duke's academic mission is to prepare students to continue their education at the "next level", not to earn an undergraduate degree. As an academic advisor explained to me there's a reason why there isn't a business, nursing, or teaching undergraduate degree. Duke students are expected to learn a trade at the "next level". For the majority of students that next level requires an undergraduate degree. But, that isn't true of all students.

[monkey]

Duke's academic mission is to prepare students to continue their education at the "next level", not to earn an undergraduate degree. As an academic advisor explained to me there's a reason why there isn't a business, nursing, or teaching undergraduate degree. Duke students are expected to learn a trade at the "next level". For the majority of students that next level requires an undergraduate degree. But, that isn't true of all students.

Hmm. I don't recall arguing that the University was trying to teach trades. Perhaps it is instructive to see what the mission statement actually says (see below). I don't see anything in there about preparing for the next level (or to be fair explicitly stating that the school will try to graduate its students) - however, I note certain bolded portions which seem to me to be inconsistent with the very nature of an intentional one and done. By the way, if Duke were to become a one-and-done factory (which hopefully there is little chance of), I defy you to tell me the difference between that and a trade school.

With apologies for the cutting and pasting:

http://trustees.duke.edu/governing/mission.php

Approved by the Duke University Board of Trustees October 1, 1994, and revised February 23, 2001, the Mission Statement for Duke University reads as follows:

"James B. Duke's founding Indenture of Duke University directed the members of the University to 'provide real leadership in the educational world' by choosing individuals of 'outstanding character, ability, and vision' to serve as its officers, trustees and faculty; by carefully selecting students of 'character, determination and application;' and by pursuing those areas of teaching and scholarship that would 'most help to develop our resources, increase our wisdom, and promote human happiness.'

“To these ends, the mission of Duke University is to provide a superior liberal education to undergraduate students, attending not only to their intellectual growth but also to their development as adults committed to high ethical standards and full participation as leaders in their communities; to prepare future members of the learned professions for lives of skilled and ethical service by providing excellent graduate and professional education; to advance the frontiers of knowledge and contribute boldly to the international community of scholarship; to promote an intellectual environment built on a commitment to free and open inquiry; to help those who suffer, cure disease, and promote health, through sophisticated medical research and thoughtful patient care; to provide wide ranging educational opportunities, on and beyond our campuses, for traditional students, active professionals and life-long learners using the power of information technologies; and to promote a deep appreciation for the range of human difference and potential, a sense of the obligations and rewards of citizenship, and a commitment to learning, freedom and truth.

“By pursuing these objectives with vision and integrity, Duke University seeks to engage the mind, elevate the spirit, and stimulate the best effort of all who are associated with the University; to contribute in diverse ways to the local community, the state, the nation and the world; and to attain and maintain a place of real leadership in all that we do.”

[El_Diablo]

Hmm. I don't recall arguing that the University was trying to teach trades. Perhaps it is instructive to see what the mission statement actually says (see below). I don't see anything in there about preparing for the next level (or to be fair explicitly stating that the school will try to graduate its students) - however, I note certain bolded portions which seem to me to be inconsistent with the very nature of an intentional one and done. By the way, if Duke were to become a one-and-done factory (which hopefully there is little chance of), I defy you to tell me the difference between that and a trade school.

With apologies for the cutting and pasting:

http://trustees.duke.edu/governing/mission.php

Approved by the Duke University Board of Trustees October 1, 1994, and revised February 23, 2001, the Mission Statement for Duke University reads as follows:

"James B. Duke's founding Indenture of Duke University directed the members of the University to 'provide real leadership in the educational world' by choosing individuals of 'outstanding character, ability, and vision' to serve as its officers, trustees and faculty; by carefully selecting students of 'character, determination and application;' and by pursuing those areas of teaching and scholarship that would 'most help to develop our resources, increase our wisdom, and promote human happiness.'

“To these ends, the mission of Duke University is to provide a superior liberal education to undergraduate students, attending not only to their intellectual growth but also to their development as adults committed to high ethical standards and full participation as leaders in their communities; to prepare future members of the learned professions for lives of skilled and ethical service by providing excellent graduate and professional education; to advance the frontiers of knowledge and contribute boldly to the international community of scholarship; to promote an intellectual environment built on a commitment to free and open inquiry; to help those who suffer, cure disease, and promote health, through sophisticated medical research and thoughtful patient care; to provide wide ranging educational opportunities, on and beyond our campuses, for traditional students, active professionals and life-long learners using the power of information technologies; and to promote a deep appreciation for the range of human difference and potential, a sense of the obligations and rewards of citizenship, and a commitment to learning, freedom and truth.

“By pursuing these objectives with vision and integrity, Duke University seeks to engage the mind, elevate the spirit, and stimulate the best effort of all who are associated with the University; to contribute in diverse ways to the local community, the state, the nation and the world; and to attain and maintain a place of real leadership in all that we do.”

As long as he takes school seriously while he's enrolled, I don't see anything in bold that can't be part of Austin's time at Duke, even if it is only for a year. It doesn't say that every student has to attend for four years to have his mind engaged, or achieve learning and truth. And if it did say that, it would be a complete farce.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

When Bill Gates or others like him drop out after a year to pursue a business opportunity they view as more valuable, we don't criticize them beyond thinking they are foolish not to "get their degree" since it is a calling card going forward in life. And just because Austin etal have it as a goal to reach the NBA at the earliest possible date, does not mean that they will automatically be leaving school in one year. It is just a plan. Austin could get in a motorcycle wreck and never play in the NBA and stay four years. Or he could light the world on fire and be a top 5 draft pick. I hope he sucks the marrow out of his college experience for as long as he attends. I personally think he would be wise to stay three or four years and grow up a little before entering the cold, cruel world. But that is my yardstick, and I don't impose it on him. I would not trade my four years of reading, thinking, and screwing around for anything. Wish I had a few more of them.

[mgtr]

I'm an old geezer now, but as I look back on my 12 years in college (well, off and on, US Army, undergrad, grad school) it was a great time. I got married, bought a house, had a child, all while in school. Then I went into the real world. Lots of money, lots of responsibility. Sammy Straight Arrow. Quite different from college. Hard to improve on those college years.

[left_hook_lacey]

But the rumors are the John Wall was one of the best students on the team

My nephew is 11, and I'd be willing to bet he could've been one of the best students on that UK team.

[Faison1]

I gotta say I'm a bit disappointed to hear Austin say his goal is one-and-done. In this modern environment it's always the case, I'm sure, but I now have more doubts about this recruitment than I did before.

Amongst my concerns are these:

Are we selling our souls? If Austin comes to Duke, does it set a precedent? Are the rules going to change in the next year or two, making this argument moot? I wonder how the players on the team feel about one-and-dones.....

[DukeBlueNV]

I gotta say I'm a bit disappointed to hear Austin say his goal is one-and-done. In this modern environment it's always the case, I'm sure, but I now have more doubts about this recruitment than I did before.

Amongst my concerns are these:

Are we selling our souls? If Austin comes to Duke, does it set a precedent? Are the rules going to change in the next year or two, making this argument moot? I wonder how the players on the team feel about one-and-dones.....

These kids have to play somewhere... why not Duke? Would you rather them go the factory at UK, where the culture is all about doing what's best for you and not the team? As long as these kids are "clean" and Coach K isn't bending the rules or doing anything unethical to get these kids to play here I wouldnt call recruiting talented players "Selling our souls", even if they only play for a year. Now would I want a team of one and dones playing for Duke with new players comming in year after year...no.... but IMO you need NBA talent to win a championship and mixing some one and done talent with some good players who stick around 3-4 yrs (examples: singler, battier, or even hansbrough) you get a recipe for a great teams who can win championships.

[CLT Devil]

I, for one, do not at all mind a player leaving after one year if they are good enough, ie Luol Deng (man that one still hurts) as opposed to a player leaving early who is not ready, such as Avery.

The main thing that gets me about a Rivers, Livingston (potentially) and others who expect to go after one year is this; Not only does it hurt to lose such a good player and think about what could have been, but also these players go on the be ambassadors to Duke Basketball and to a large extent Duke University as a whole.

I feel like that if a kid comes in and knows in his mind he will only be there for a year he might not soak up the Duke culture as much. I know it takes a lot of people 4 years to 'grow up' in college. My only fear is that some kids, or even transfers like Dhantay Jones, don't fully grasp what it is like to be a Duke ambassador after limited time there. Obviously I put 100% faith in K to bring in the right kids, but sometimes one year is not enough to grow as a person and go on to become someone who Duke is proud to have had, due in no small part to their time at Duke. The Bball program can survive...1nDone's can always help like they have the 'Holes in their recent runs, but I'll take a senior Scheyer over Wall...call me crazy.

That being said, I would have loved to win a NC with Sean Livingston and subsequently Austin Rivers. I think it harkens back to why K thinks it's silly to have an age limit for the NBA; Some people just don't belong in college, others embrace it and take it for all it's worth, like Battier and Singler.

If a kid is going to wear the badge that is 'Duke University Bball Player' I want them to at least get the feel for what Duke stands for - Excellence in all parts of one's life.

Just my take. AR, please come to Duke and enjoy your time here, just stay long enough to leave your own mark (Freshman Scoring Record?).

[G man]

I think we need to take a step back and really take a look at the situation. It is not the kids fault (Rivers, Wall, Evans, Favors, and Cousins) that the NBA does not allow these kids in right away. Which I believe is completely immoral and prejudicial to restrict someones right to work because of their age, but that is beside the point. They want to play in the NBA more than they want to play in college. I get that there is a lot more money in it than even USC can offer. They have to go to College or Europe first so why do we get mad at them. Should we not be angry with who sets the rules? It should be like baseball's rules, but once again that is a little of topic. It's just like the saying "Don’t hate the player hate the game".

[CameronBornAndBred]

These kids have to play somewhere... why not Duke? Would you rather them go the factory at UK, where the culture is all about doing what's best for you and not the team? As long as these kids are "clean" and Coach K isn't bending the rules or doing anything unethical to get these kids to play here I wouldnt call recruiting talented players "Selling our souls", even if they only play for a year. Now would I want a team of one and dones playing for Duke with new players comming in year after year...no.... but IMO you need NBA talent to win a championship and mixing some one and done talent with some good players who stick around 3-4 yrs (examples: singler, battier, or even hansbrough) you get a recipe for a great teams who can win championships.
The included example of Singler should be reversed, since as the draft pointed out, only he (and Smith) were draft material on the championship team. (They both would have been taken in one of the two rounds.) Without the leadership and experience of Kyle and Nolan, this season would have been very different...meaning that any team NEEDS that experience to win it all. Obviuosly we would not have won without Scheyer, Zoubs and Thomas being there either, but nobody expected them not to be. Someone looked at this once (touted freshmen's impact) and the only one who really stood up to the test of his predicted worth was Carmelo Anthony...and he wasn't planning on leaving until his draft stock shot through the roof.

[Duvall]

Someone looked at this once (touted freshmen's impact) and the only one who really stood up to the test of his predicted worth was Carmelo Anthony...and he wasn't planning on leaving until his draft stock shot through the roof.

I would like to see this. I don't see how it could possibly account for Kevin Love and Derrick Rose.

[pfrduke]

I would like to see this. I don't see how it could possibly account for Kevin Love and Derrick Rose.

Or Kevin Durant, or Mike Conley/ Greg Oden, or Michael Beasley, or... (I could go on).

The only thing Anthony has that those guys don't is a championship, and that has as much to do with the success of the team around them as it does their personal level of play.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Now would I want a team of one and dones playing for Duke with new players comming in year after year...no.... but IMO you need NBA talent to win a championship and mixing some one and done talent with some good players who stick around 3-4 yrs (examples: singler, battier, or even hansbrough) you get a recipe for a great teams who can win championships.

One-and-dones are not needed to win NCAA championships. Wasn't Syracuse the only team that won the championship with a one-and-done star player?

[muzikfrk75]

One-and-dones are not needed to win NCAA championships. Wasn't Syracuse the only team that won the championship with a one-and-done star player?

Never Nervous Pervis was a Freshman when they won the NC, but ended up staying all 4 years.

[Newton_14]

Or Kevin Durant, or Mike Conley/ Greg Oden, or Michael Beasley, or... (I could go on).

The only thing Anthony has that those guys don't is a championship, and that has as much to do with the success of the team around them as it does their personal level of play.

But that was the OP's point. He was responding to a post that said 1 and done talent was required to win a title by pointing out that Kedsy recently posted data showing that was not true. All of the guys you and Duvall list were great players but none won a championship.

Kind of ironic that someone would state 1 and dones are required to win a title less than 3 months after Duke won the title with an "old fashioned" team of Seniors and Juniors and not a single Top 5 Draft pick on the team.

I cannot remember which thread Kedsy's post is in, but maybe he can repost it.

[Orange&BlackSheep]

Is not using winning a one and done tournament just a little bit of an arbitrary way to prove the argument about "one and dones"? I mean, in a year that has 6 or 8 or 10 teams that have one and dones, roughly 90% of the teams will prove your point. Cal did not win with Jason Kidd ... Ding! Another score for the one and dones are not the answer team! (etc. etc.)

Given that I do not judge a Duke season using the National Championship as a yardstick, it seems ludicrous to make the same demand on someone playing one year of college ball. Win percentages? Conference Championships? There have to be some other criteria that matter.

[Newton_14]

Is not using winning a one and done tournament just a little bit of an arbitrary way to prove the argument about "one and dones"? I mean, in a year that has 6 or 8 or 10 teams that have one and dones, roughly 90% of the teams will prove your point. Cal did not win with Jason Kidd ... Ding! Another score for the one and dones are not the answer team! (etc. etc.)

Given that I do not judge a Duke season using the National Championship as a yardstick, it seems ludicrous to make the same demand on someone playing one year of college ball. Win percentages? Conference Championships? There have to be some other criteria that matter.

I agree with you actually. I was looking at it from the other side of the fence in that titles can be won without a 1 and done. Also, when looking at that argument I view a definite 1 and done as a kid who will likely be a top 5 or 6 pick. Not a kid who may go later like a Bledsoe for example.

Getting back on topic, I was a little disappointed that Austin is hoping to be one and done. I would much rather have kids that want to stay at least 2 years if not more. I still hope he signs, but if he does I hope he falls in love with the experience enough that he decides to enjoy at least a couple of years of the college experience.

The NBA is not going out of business any time soon. It will be open for business no matter when Austin decides it is time to go.

[-bdbd]

I gotta say I'm a bit disappointed to hear Austin say his goal is one-and-done. In this modern environment it's always the case, I'm sure, but I now have more doubts about this recruitment than I did before.

Amongst my concerns are these:

Are we selling our souls? If Austin comes to Duke, does it set a precedent? Are the rules going to change in the next year or two, making this argument moot? I wonder how the players on the team feel about one-and-dones.....

Selling our souls? No.

If someone had offered me millions to go worl for them after my frosh year at Duke, I'd have gone in a heartbeat! (Alas, rookie Marketing and Sales guys aren't usually offered that kind of money at age 19....)

As long as he takes school seriously while there, and represents us well upon departure, why should we have any problem with it?

I still wish Kobe had chosen to play a D1 year before going pro. Same with Livingston.

Coach K has made statements in the past about the need for a good mix of players -- obviously, the 4 year standard types who'll ENJOY THE ENVIRONMENT/EDUCATION, CREATE CHEMISTRY AND CONTINUITY, AND DEVELOP; as well as the occasional shorter-term superstar (after all we did go hard after Wall, Monroe, Deng, Livingston, Brand, Magette, and many others we missed on, all of whom were unlikely to be 4 year D1 players coming out of HS). Realistically, to win with regularity now-a-days you need some of these shorter term players. Or would everyone be OK with waiting another 4+ years to develop a group of seniors with superb chemistry again in order to compete for a NC? I think it's a bit naive to expect that we are pursuing ONLY 4 year players. We aren't, and we haven't been for some time.

I trust K and the coaching staff to find the right mix. Many of those one-and-done kids are not the right fit for Duke, and vice-versa. But some are.

Last thought: There's a big difference between that being A goal and it actually happening. AR could just as easily decide to stick around a couple (or more?) years and pick up some NC's while at Duke, maybe he (like Kyle) decides that he really likes things in Durham. We should be so fortunate!


:D

[roywhite]

This is mentioned in the FIBA thread also, but pretty amazing game for Austin tonight vs Canada in the Americas U-18 semifinal.

He finished with 35 points, including 9-12 from 3-pt. Austin has the quickness, length, and moves to generate his own shots. He's even better when he's got a great PG (....errr, like that Kyrie Irving guy on your FIBA team, Austin) to help him create opportunities.

Dad Doc was in attendance also.

[Newton_14]

This is mentioned in the FIBA thread also, but pretty amazing game for Austin tonight vs Canada in the Americas U-18 semifinal.

He finished with 35 points, including 9-12 from 3-pt. Austin has the quickness, length, and moves to generate his own shots. He's even better when he's got a great PG (....errr, like that Kyrie Irving guy on your FIBA team, Austin) to help him create opportunities.

Dad Doc was in attendance also.

He also hit his first 9 threes if the reports are accurate! Career game in a USA uniform! Nice.

[hughgs]

Hmm. I don't recall arguing that the University was trying to teach trades. Perhaps it is instructive to see what the mission statement actually says (see below). I don't see anything in there about preparing for the next level (or to be fair explicitly stating that the school will try to graduate its students) - however, I note certain bolded portions which seem to me to be inconsistent with the very nature of an intentional one and done. By the way, if Duke were to become a one-and-done factory (which hopefully there is little chance of), I defy you to tell me the difference between that and a trade school.

With apologies for the cutting and pasting:

http://trustees.duke.edu/governing/mission.php

Approved by the Duke University Board of Trustees October 1, 1994, and revised February 23, 2001, the Mission Statement for Duke University reads as follows:

"James B. Duke's founding Indenture of Duke University directed the members of the University to 'provide real leadership in the educational world' by choosing individuals of 'outstanding character, ability, and vision' to serve as its officers, trustees and faculty; by carefully selecting students of 'character, determination and application;' and by pursuing those areas of teaching and scholarship that would 'most help to develop our resources, increase our wisdom, and promote human happiness.'

“To these ends, the mission of Duke University is to provide a superior liberal education to undergraduate students, attending not only to their intellectual growth but also to their development as adults committed to high ethical standards and full participation as leaders in their communities; to prepare future members of the learned professions for lives of skilled and ethical service by providing excellent graduate and professional education; to advance the frontiers of knowledge and contribute boldly to the international community of scholarship; to promote an intellectual environment built on a commitment to free and open inquiry; to help those who suffer, cure disease, and promote health, through sophisticated medical research and thoughtful patient care; to provide wide ranging educational opportunities, on and beyond our campuses, for traditional students, active professionals and life-long learners using the power of information technologies; and to promote a deep appreciation for the range of human difference and potential, a sense of the obligations and rewards of citizenship, and a commitment to learning, freedom and truth.

“By pursuing these objectives with vision and integrity, Duke University seeks to engage the mind, elevate the spirit, and stimulate the best effort of all who are associated with the University; to contribute in diverse ways to the local community, the state, the nation and the world; and to attain and maintain a place of real leadership in all that we do.”

I was mostly responding to this statement from you:

"... educate its students with a view towards graduation."

As I said before an academic advisor explained to me that Duke is not geared towards graduating students as much as it's geared towards letting students continue their education after Duke. For the majority of students that requires a degree but that isn't true of all students, especially those who view the NBA as their goal.

[pfrduke]

Someone looked at this once (touted freshmen's impact) and the only one who really stood up to the test of his predicted worth was Carmelo Anthony...and he wasn't planning on leaving until his draft stock shot through the roof.


But that was the OP's point. He was responding to a post that said 1 and done talent was required to win a title by pointing out that Kedsy recently posted data showing that was not true. All of the guys you and Duvall list were great players but none won a championship.

Kind of ironic that someone would state 1 and dones are required to win a title less than 3 months after Duke won the title with an "old fashioned" team of Seniors and Juniors and not a single Top 5 Draft pick on the team.

I cannot remember which thread Kedsy's post is in, but maybe he can repost it.

Saying that "someone looked at this once" and that the only one and done who "stood up to the test of his predicted worth" was Carmelo Anthony is not self-evidently saying that Carmelo is the only one-and-done who has won a title. I was unaware of the Kedsy analysis (which CB&B doesn't reference). Regardless, there have been several high-impact one and done freshmen who have "stood up to the test of his predicted worth." I anticipate Austin will be another.

[Duvall]

But that was the OP's point. He was responding to a post that said 1 and done talent was required to win a title by pointing out that Kedsy recently posted data showing that was not true. All of the guys you and Duvall list were great players but none won a championship.


And that's true, but it's still wrong to say that Anthony was the only one-and-done freshman to stand up to the test of his predicted worth. Even if you want to look strictly at team success, Oden, Conley and Love led their teams to the Final Four, and Rose came as close to winning a national title as you can come without actually winning one.

Sure it's possible to win without super-elite talent, and Duke has proven that. But it still helps.

[pfrduke]

Sure it's possible to win without super-elite talent, and Duke has proven that. But it still helps.

We are also a large exception to the rule. Every other champion since Kentucky in 1998 has had at least one lottery pick on the team. And we may very well get there with Kyle, Mason, or even Nolan.

[Duvall]

We are also a large exception to the rule. Every other champion since Kentucky in 1998 has had at least one lottery pick on the team.

Chris Wilcox was a lottery pick? Oh, Clippers.

[muzikfrk75]

Doc is going back to Boston:

http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nba/news/story?id=5343264

[arnie]

For what it's worth: Dave Telep today on 99.9 FM in the triangle said the consensus opinion amoung recruiting experts is that Rivers is headed to Duke.

[wilko]

For what it's worth: Dave Telep today on 99.9 FM in the triangle said the consensus opinion among recruiting experts is that Rivers is headed to Duke.

I heard that too... I believe Telep added "as of today..." to is as a CYA measure.

...the consensus opinion among recruiting experts "as of today" is that Rivers is headed to Duke....

[SilkyJ]

I heard that too... I believe Telep added "as of today..." to is as a CYA measure.

...the consensus opinion among recruiting experts "as of today" is that Rivers is headed to Duke....


For what it's worth: Dave Telep today on 99.9 FM in the triangle said the consensus opinion amoung recruiting experts is that Rivers is headed to Duke.

No offense to Telep, other scouts, or you guys, but as of today that's a fairly obvious conclusion to draw. We've been leading for the kid for a while, and AR has even said we are his leaders on a couple of occasions. So yea, being the leaders as of now, you'd have to think we're the most likely destination. Leaders change though, and everyone knows that.

[wilko]

No offense to Telep, other scouts, or you guys, but as of today that's a fairly obvious conclusion to draw.

If you check this board several times a day you are correct. Its probably safe to just assume its implied..

But if you are a dial surfing radio vagabond and just happen to catch that only snippet from Telep...

If it turns out hes wrong its a credibility hit to Telep... So if said vagabond is ever in the market to subscribe to a recruiting service, It wont be Telep's if he looks "wrong". Implied or not, he almost HAS to say that qualifier.

If he didn't, being the wildly excitable type, I might infer that AR is signing with Duke tomorrow; and that its a done deal, as some folks have been inclined to previously sqweek.

[DukeBlueNV]

Telep's word is one that we should feel some confidence in. We shouldn't take it as him saying its a 100% done deal but it's nice to hear that comming from someone "in the know" like Telep. Of course it has come straight from Austin's mouth that Duke is his fav right now but at least Telep's response wasnt "UNC is creeping in and has a good shot at him" or something like that.

[Big Pappa]

No offense to Telep, other scouts, or you guys, but as of today that's a fairly obvious conclusion to draw. We've been leading for the kid for a while, and AR has even said we are his leaders on a couple of occasions. So yea, being the leaders as of now, you'd have to think we're the most likely destination. Leaders change though, and everyone knows that.

That's exactly right, it would be different if he had said he thought we were going to land AR period. We are the leader as of now, I interviewed him 3 days ago at the FIBA games and asked him if there was a leader and this is what he said,

"Not really, if I had to pick Duke would be the leader right now, there is nothing wrong with that school. Carolina is coming up and I just started getting a relationship with Coach Roy Williams, but it's kinda tough because whatever school I pick the other one is going to hate me."

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-vs-us-virgin-islands-post-game.html

No mention of Florida, but a mention of UNC being on the rise. As of today we are the leaders, but as Silk said, leaders change.

[CameronBornAndBred]

That's exactly right, it would be different if he had said he thought we were going to land AR period. We are the leader as of now, I interviewed him 3 days ago at the FIBA games and asked him if there was a leader and this is what he said,

"Not really, if I had to pick Duke would be the leader right now, there is nothing wrong with that school. Carolina is coming up and I just started getting a relationship with Coach Roy Williams, but it's kinda tough because whatever school I pick the other one is going to hate me."

http://dukehoop.blogspot.com/2010/06/usa-vs-us-virgin-islands-post-game.html

No mention of Florida, but a mention of UNC being on the rise. As of today we are the leaders, but as Silk said, leaders change.
Ok...here's a question for you, Mark Watson and everyone else who is contact with Duke's recruits. At which point are you not boosters but just parties interviewing a player? I'm not a fan of the strict rules the NCAA has..but you have posted multiple posts on the interest of players coming to Duke, and then you go talk to the guy. I've seen plenty of posters get totally shot down for even thinking of approaching players. I don't think what you did was wrong, but I do think you are in a grey area..one which will get wider as more bloggers get out there. Are you media? Are you a fan? At which point does your fan interest in Duke hoops cross the line?

[Big Pappa]

Ok...here's a question for you, Mark Watson and everyone else who is contact with Duke's recruits. At which point are you not boosters but just parties interviewing a player? I'm not a fan of the strict rules the NCAA has..but you have posted multiple posts on the interest of players coming to Duke, and then you go talk to the guy. I've seen plenty of posters get totally shot down for even thinking of approaching players. I don't think what you did was wrong, but I do think you are in a grey area..one which will get wider as more bloggers get out there. Are you media? Are you a fan? At which point does your fan interest in Duke hoops cross the line?

First, working as an official member of the media at the FIBA U-18 games allows me access to the players for interviews. Second, I can have my own opinions on where I think a player should go or where I want them to go as long as I do not attempt to influence them. Anchors on ESPN often talk about their alma maters and how they hope they do well and so forth, but they do not attempt to influence recruits to their school during interviews or anything else. By saying that I want AR at Duke on here I am simply stating my opinion, if I went up to AR and said that I want him at Duke and that's the best thing for him - that would be a problem.

I hope that helps answer your question.

[lilblue]

Austin was wearing a duke shirt tonight after the u18 team won the championship! Of all the shirt he owns that is the shirt that he chose to wear. It wasn't as though he was at Duke where wearing a Duke shirt is somewhat expected. Like I said a little side note for what it's worth.:rolleyes:

[CameronBornAndBred]

First, working as an official member of the media at the FIBA U-18 games allows me access to the players for interviews. Second, I can have my own opinions on where I think a player should go or where I want them to go as long as I do not attempt to influence them. Anchors on ESPN often talk about their alma maters and how they hope they do well and so forth, but they do not attempt to influence recruits to their school during interviews or anything else. By saying that I want AR at Duke on here I am simply stating my opinion, if I went up to AR and said that I want him at Duke and that's the best thing for him - that would be a problem.

I hope that helps answer your question.
It does, but we could assume that Rivers might read DBR and then you are interacting with him two ways, since as a poster you are "booster" and not a media representative. Thanks for answering, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, I was just looking for clarification.

[Big Pappa]

It does, but we could assume that Rivers might read DBR and then you are interacting with him two ways, since as a poster you are "booster" and not a media representative. Thanks for answering, I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything, I was just looking for clarification.

That is not considered direct interaction. Think about a reporter who works for a local newspaper. While he or she is known to be a supporter and fan of the local college team, when they interview prospective athletes they do not attempt to sway the athlete's decision, because that is direct interaction.

DBR isn't direct interaction because it is a public message board where we are indirectly interacting with others, unless there is a pm sent between people.

I am very familiar with the NCAA rules and regulations. If you, or anyone, would like more clarification feel free to send me a private message. I don't want to dominate this thread with unrelated conversation.

[DukeBlueNV]

Austin was wearing a duke shirt tonight after the u18 team won the championship! Of all the shirt he owns that is the shirt that he chose to wear. It wasn't as though he was at Duke where wearing a Duke shirt is somewhat expected. Like I said a little side note for what it's worth.:rolleyes:

sweet... where did you see him?

[ScreechTDX1847]

As an aside, does anyone just feel like there is no way Doc Rivers lets his son attend Kentucky or that he at least expresses a strong aversion for his son to commit?

NBA coaches have to be privy to some of the rumors and/or know exactly what Calipari is doing behind the scenes. I just can't see a professional basketball coach advocating sending his son to a program like that.

Or not. Your thoughts?

[wilko]

As an aside, does anyone just feel like there is no way Doc Rivers lets his son attend Kentucky or that he at least expresses a strong aversion for his son to commit?

NBA coaches have to be privy to some of the rumors and/or know exactly what Calipari is doing behind the scenes. I just can't see a professional basketball coach advocating sending his son to a program like that.

Or not. Your thoughts?

AR much like Mike Dunleavy Jr., wouldn't NEED the influence/advisement of WWW about the League. AR has a question or wants to meet someone; he just has to have his dad hook him up or lay it out for him.

He has that luxury built in with Doc IF he wants it... (He wouldn't be the 1st teenager to tune out his dad if he chose another path.)

KY has sizzle. Until that sizzle fades, I think most cats are gonna "say" they are giving it a look just to appear cool and be with the "in" crowd.

[WiJoe]

let's remember, prince harry also wore Duke gear.

[Class of '94]

let's remember, prince harry also wore Duke gear.

Yeah, but I believe he only wore Duke gear at Duke-related events whereas Austin is wearing Duke gear all across the country. If I'm mistaken, let me know.

[Kedsy]

Yeah, but I believe he only wore Duke gear at Duke-related events whereas Austin is wearing Duke gear all across the country. If I'm mistaken, let me know.

The other side of the coin is a player might like a team (and thus wear their gear) and still decide to attend a different university for whatever reason (including the fact that he's a teenager). I wouldn't read too much into it, either way.

[WiJoe]

the other side of the coin is a player might like a team (and thus wear their gear) and still decide to attend a different university for whatever reason (including the fact that he's a teenager). I wouldn't read too much into it, either way.


voice of reason, you are!

[Class of '94]

The other side of the coin is a player might like a team (and thus wear their gear) and still decide to attend a different university for whatever reason (including the fact that he's a teenager). I wouldn't read too much into it, either way.

Excellent point and good to keep in mind........

[sagegrouse]

The other side of the coin is a player might like a team (and thus wear their gear) and still decide to attend a different university for whatever reason (including the fact that he's a teenager). I wouldn't read too much into it, either way.

Kids have a bunch of stuff -- tees, caps, sweats, etc. Maybe what they wear just depends on what's clean.

sagegrouse

[DukeBlueNV]

come on guys i think we can read into it a little bit... austin is a coach's son and i think we can assume he knows what he's doing. when he is allowing himself to be seen in public *with media members present* in a duke shirt, i think thats making a statement. just my opinion... doesnt mean he is a 100% lock but i think the fact that these stories being told about austin rocking duke gear is at the least a sign of where his heart is right now.

[roywhite]

come on guys i think we can read into it a little bit... austin is a coach's son and i think we can assume he knows what he's doing. when he is allowing himself to be seen in public *with media members present* in a duke shirt, i think thats making a statement. just my opinion... doesnt mean he is a 100% lock but i think the fact that these stories being told about austin rocking duke gear is at the least a sign of where his heart is right now.

I wouldn't call it a bad sign. :)

[Big Pappa]

come on guys i think we can read into it a little bit... austin is a coach's son and i think we can assume he knows what he's doing. when he is allowing himself to be seen in public *with media members present* in a duke shirt, i think thats making a statement. just my opinion... doesnt mean he is a 100% lock but i think the fact that these stories being told about austin rocking duke gear is at the least a sign of where his heart is right now.

I agree with Kedsy that we shouldn't read much into, but that being said, it is much better than him wearing UNC or Florida gear. It certainly isn't a bad sign.

[Kedsy]

come on guys i think we can read into it a little bit... austin is a coach's son and i think we can assume he knows what he's doing. when he is allowing himself to be seen in public *with media members present* in a duke shirt, i think thats making a statement.

Well, let's assume you are correct and he knows what he's doing. If he wanted to commit, don't you think he'd just do so rather than throw out cryptic hints by wearing a specific shirt? And if he wasn't ready to commit, why would he want people to think he was favoring one school over the other? The idea that it's a true sign doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[lilblue]

sweet... where did you see him?

Immediately after the championship game, after the postgame interviews. He was the last player to exit the locker room... There was a crowd of fans waiting to get autographs, he (wearing the Duke shirt) walked to the end of the corridor (w/ his father) and signed some of the autographs and walked back into the corridor with his dad and did not come back out (made a back door exit), the other players signed autographs until they had no more to sign, then loaded into the team buses and left. The only other players of the 12 member team to be sporting Duke apparel were Duke commits Kyrie and Josh... Just sayin'! Read into it what you want!

[DukeBlueNV]

Well, let's assume you are correct and he knows what he's doing. If he wanted to commit, don't you think he'd just do so rather than throw out cryptic hints by wearing a specific shirt? And if he wasn't ready to commit, why would he want people to think he was favoring one school over the other? The idea that it's a true sign doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

Your making a good arguement but my point wasnt that he had allready decided to play at Duke. It was that it's nice to see him PUBLICLY re-affirming he is a Duke lean... I think its a statment, not that he is ready to commit, but that he is really feeling Duke right now. We arent hearing reports of him wearing UNC or Florida gear right?? Can things change? Of course. I hope not though... I think its a great sign at this point in his recruitment (pretty late in the game if plans sticking to his plan and making a decision in August) that he has said on record and has shown publicly (with all these sightings of him in duke gear) that we are the favorite right now. I understand if you want to remain skeptical, I dont blame you. Its not over till its over but I'm feeling pretty confident right now.

[ThePublisher]

He is coming to Duke. Especially after playing with Irving and Hairston on the U18 team. Its ridiculous that therea are 92 pages of posts in this thread. Just count him in your 2011 roster as starting at the 2. Irving, Rivers, Curry and Dawkins? Wow. We might just pull a Phil Jackson and 3-peat.

[flyingdutchdevil]

He is coming to Duke. Especially after playing with Irving and Hairston on the U18 team. Its ridiculous that therea are 92 pages of posts in this thread. Just count him in your 2011 roster as starting at the 2. Irving, Rivers, Curry and Dawkins? Wow. We might just pull a Phil Jackson and 3-peat.

Damn. We already won the 2011 championship? That was fast...

[oldnavy]

Well, let's assume you are correct and he knows what he's doing. If he wanted to commit, don't you think he'd just do so rather than throw out cryptic hints by wearing a specific shirt? And if he wasn't ready to commit, why would he want people to think he was favoring one school over the other? The idea that it's a true sign doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I actually wore a UNC sweatshirt once. I went to a Duke Carolina football game in CH totally unprepared for the cold front that moved in. I got so cold that I had to buy a hideous light blue sweatshirt with UNC on the front. I wore it for the game, took it home and wrapped it up and gave it to my wife as a Christmas present. I consider that a life and death situation, a man will do funny things when pushed to the brink. It is not something I am proud off.

I think Austin probably likes Duke more than any other school right now but wants to finish the process. This makes sense given his extremely early commit to UF and the de-commit. He realizes that there is no need to rush. Wearing Duke shirts is a good sign, but I believe we have better signs that point him towards us.

[NSDukeFan]

I actually wore a UNC sweatshirt once. I went to a Duke Carolina football game in CH totally unprepared for the cold front that moved in. I got so cold that I had to buy a hideous light blue sweatshirt with UNC on the front. I wore it for the game, took it home and wrapped it up and gave it to my wife as a Christmas present. I consider that a life and death situation, a man will do funny things when pushed to the brink. It is not something I am proud off.

I think Austin probably likes Duke more than any other school right now but wants to finish the process. This makes sense given his extremely early commit to UF and the de-commit. He realizes that there is no need to rush. Wearing Duke shirts is a good sign, but I believe we have better signs that point him towards us.

Are you starting to lean towards posting on IC?;)

[slower]

I actually wore a UNC sweatshirt once. I went to a Duke Carolina football game in CH totally unprepared for the cold front that moved in. I got so cold that I had to buy a hideous light blue sweatshirt with UNC on the front. I wore it for the game, took it home and wrapped it up and gave it to my wife as a Christmas present. I consider that a life and death situation, a man will do funny things when pushed to the brink. It is not something I am proud off.

You COULD have worn it inside out, you know. :D

[CameronBornAndBred]

I agree with Kedsy that we shouldn't read much into, but that being said, it is much better than him wearing UNC or Florida gear. It certainly isn't a bad sign.
If someone posts a picture of him in a heels shirt, this thread will have a meltdown.

[SilkyJ]

Your making a good arguement but my point wasnt that he had allready decided to play at Duke. It was that it's nice to see him PUBLICLY re-affirming he is a Duke lean...

I think his saying in interviews "Duke is my leader" is pretty public affirmation that he is a Duke lean. I don't need to see him wearing Duke clothes to know that, since, ya know, he said it and all...

[Big Pappa]

I think his saying in interviews "Duke is my leader" is pretty public affirmation that he is a Duke lean. I don't need to see him wearing Duke clothes to know that, since, ya know, he said it and all...

Exactly. Publicly (to the media) saying Duke is his leader is a much bigger statement than a t-shirt that maybe 100 people saw him wearing.

[PADukeMom]

Kids have a bunch of stuff -- tees, caps, sweats, etc. Maybe what they wear just depends on what's clean.

sagegrouse

Oh noooo wayyyy in HECK would I ever allow any Carolina, Michigan or Ohio State gear in my house!!! *LOL**:D

[oldnavy]

You COULD have worn it inside out, you know. :D

I could have, but it was still that awful color! Like I said, not one of my prouder moments, I was young and VERY cold!!

[NSDukeFan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/02/rivers.notes/index.html?eref=sihp


Rivers should just reclassify and jump to college now. The 6-foot-3 guard was the most lethal perimeter scorer in the entire tournament, and on Tuesday he set a new U.S. record for points in a FIBA U18 event, dropping 35 on Team Canada (on 9-of-12 long-range shooting). Rivers is a killer three-point shooter off the dribble, using a crossover/step-back combo to create space for his shot or get into the lane, where he's a fluid finisher. On numerous occasions, he reminded me of a Davidson-era Stephen Curry.

[DukeBlueNV]

I guess I'm not the only one...

From Luke Winn's twitter-
"After FIBA gold-medal game, Austin Rivers wore Duke shirt/shorts. He's not committed to Duke yet, but that's a sign. http://bit.ly/cRdOkq"

http://twitter.com/lukewinn

[lilblue]

I guess I'm not the only one...

From Luke Winn's twitter-
"After FIBA gold-medal game, Austin Rivers wore Duke shirt/shorts. He's not committed to Duke yet, but that's a sign. http://bit.ly/cRdOkq"

http://twitter.com/lukewinn

Hmmmmm... If it quacks like a duck...;)

[Big Pappa]

Hmmmmm... If it quacks like a duck..

It could be a goose, disguised as a duck.

[MarkD83]

It could be a goose, disguised as a duck.

The unwritten fear is that this is the same "goose" chase we went through last year with HB.

[Kedsy]

The unwritten fear is that this is the same "goose" chase we went through last year with HB.

That might be part of it. But I think the main thing is why get all worked up over something that probably means absolutely nothing? Why get yourself into such a state that if he picks somewhere else you'll feel forever betrayed?

[Cockabeau]

Its very telling to me when a kid sports both shirt and trousers with the same school logo on it.....:cool:

[JayBean]

Oh noooo wayyyy in HECK would I ever allow any Carolina, Michigan or Ohio State gear in my house!!! *LOL**:D

There are certain situations for which Carolina gear would be handy. For instance, what if your toilet is backed up and you don't want to ruin any of your good towels?

[El_Diablo]

I guess I'm not the only one...

From Luke Winn's twitter-
"After FIBA gold-medal game, Austin Rivers wore Duke shirt/shorts. He's not committed to Duke yet, but that's a sign. http://bit.ly/cRdOkq"

http://twitter.com/lukewinn

Maybe it's just a sign that Kyrie won some bet.

[El_Diablo]

Expect an announcement in the next two weeks or so.

Oh, and it's been two weeks.

[Duvall]

Maybe it's just a sign that Kyrie won some bet.

Nope.


I asked Irving if he had any influence over Rivers' wardrobe, given how well they played off of each other this week, and the prospect of them comprising the most lethal college backcourt in 2011-12. "Honestly?" Irving said. "Those are [Rivers'] shorts, those are his choice to wear them. That's all him."

[El_Diablo]

Nope.

Maybe it's a sign that I should read articles before posting.

[NSDukeFan]

Its very telling to me when a kid sports both shirt and trousers with the same school logo on it.....:cool:

Telling that he doesn't want to clash and can match his clothing?

[Big Pappa]

Telling that he doesn't want to clash and can match his clothing?

I wear Duke shirts with pants or shorts that don't have Duke on them, as I'm sure you do. I still don't think it means anything that he wore it, but not wanting to clash has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

^^^^^

no offense guys but this is starting to get a little ridiculous. I keep clicking into this thread hoping for some meaningful discussion or insight. Really... we're analyzing what the kid wears?

On the bright side, the thread count is getting ever closer to 2,000. I'm sure that's all Austin is waiting for. :rolleyes:

[_TheFakeJWill_]

Well IMO someone needs to get a pic of him in that shirt and shorts cause IF he does commit to another school it sure would be useful pics :D

[lilblue]

Well IMO someone needs to get a pic of him in that shirt and shorts cause IF he does commit to another school it sure would be useful pics :D

Here are the Pictures you asked for :D. Taken by my girlfriend before getting Austin's autograph.

[amazinballer323]

Just imagine if we would have gotten HB how excited and optomistic to a ridiculous point we would be that AR would be coming to Duke.

[_TheFakeJWill_]

Just imagine if we would have gotten HB how excited and optomistic to a ridiculous point we would be that AR would be coming to Duke.
Honestly i think NOT getting HB makes this forum more excited about AR. I for one (just my 2 cents) never really got the vibe that HB was coming to Duke. Now Rivers i say will def wear the right color blue. just my notion though. WOW would a back court we would have..... would it be the best ever talent wise???

[MisterRoddy]

Just imagine if we would have gotten HB how excited and optomistic to a ridiculous point we would be that AR would be coming to Duke.

I would rather not, things worked out perfectly for us with winning the national championship, UNC performing terribly, and Kyle Singler staying. It's his loss and right now, losing out on HB is the last thing on our minds. We are in a great place with Austin and while things very well could change, I don't expect them to within the next month or two (when he's expected to make his decision). No reason to bring up HB.

[Cockabeau]

To be honest, not getting Kyrie would have been a bigger blow. Now that Singler is coming back, Barnes was more of a luxury recruit. Unc gets Barnes for a year,we get a Kyle for another year. I will take that anytime especially coming of a banner year:cool:

[wilko]

To be honest, not getting Kyrie would have been a bigger blow. Now that Singler is coming back, Barnes was more of a luxury recruit. Unc gets Barnes for a year,we get a Kyle for another year. I will take that anytime especially coming of a banner year:cool:

I agree that Kyrie was MORE of a missing key component. We need this kind of PG. Its getting back to basics for Duke with a dynamic Lead guard. And who wouldnt was a returning verteran in Singler..

We have seen what Kyle can do to create his own shot and have the O flow thru him, it'll be very interesting to see how Kyle and the other bigs react to catching the ball in right place to do something with it as opposed to having to create on their own...

I think/hope Kyle will show a different gear/element to his game than he has shown previously. He has not had a G like Kyrie to play with his entire career at Duke.

I think/hope having a guy like Kyrie will create TONS of opportunities for Kelly, MP1, MP2, JH. The should be able to get the ball in a position to do some damage and be productive, whereas before it was more of a challege to get the ball to other people in the right spots to capitalize.

[Big Pappa]

Honestly i think NOT getting HB makes this forum more excited about AR. I for one (just my 2 cents) never really got the vibe that HB was coming to Duke. Now Rivers i say will def wear the right color blue. just my notion though. WOW would a back court we would have..... would it be the best ever talent wise???

It would take quite a bit for them to play together. First, Austin needs to come to Duke, which has a good chance of happening. Second, KI needs to stay more than one year, which I don't see happening.

If it did happen, I still don't see it being better than the back court (the three guys that played the primarily on the perimeter) of Jason Williams, Mike Dunleavy, and Nate James in 00-01.

[oldnavy]

I agree that Kyrie was MORE of a missing key component. We need this kind of PG. Its getting back to basics for Duke with a dynamic Lead guard. And who wouldnt was a returning verteran in Singler..

We have seen what Kyle can do to create his own shot and have the O flow thru him, it'll be very interesting to see how Kyle and the other bigs react to catching the ball in right place to do something with it as opposed to having to create on their own...

I think/hope Kyle will show a different gear/element to his game than he has shown previously. He has not had a G like Kyrie to play with his entire career at Duke.

I think/hope having a guy like Kyrie will create TONS of opportunities for Kelly, MP1, MP2, JH. The should be able to get the ball in a position to do some damage and be productive, whereas before it was more of a challege to get the ball to other people in the right spots to capitalize.

You know what I can't wait to see is the dribble penetration-lob pass to Mason for the dunk. Jon pulled this off a couple of times last year, but was not able to get deep into the lane that often. With KI's ability to get in the lane I expect that this will become a go-to play.

[oldnavy]

It would take quite a bit for them to play together. First, Austin needs to come to Duke, which has a good chance of happening. Second, KI needs to stay more than one year, which I don't see happening.

If it did happen, I still don't see it being better than the back court (the three guys that played the primarily on the perimeter) of Jason Williams, Mike Dunleavy, and Nate James in 00-01.
I don't know... of course none of this has happened, but a perimeter of Irving, Curry, Rivers and Dawkins could be about as good as it gets. That is if they all live up to the hype.

We are really not talking too much about Dawkins but that kid impressed the heck out of me. Given what he faced last year and the big shots he did hit, I think he has the potential to be a tremendous player for us. Give him another year to mature, without a life altering tragedy to deal with, and I think he is going to be a VERY, VERY GOOD to GREAT player. I just think he has that "knife to the heart" killer mentality.

[Big Pappa]

If it did happen, I still don't see it being better than the back court (the three guys that played the primarily on the perimeter) of Jason Williams, Mike Dunleavy, and Nate James in 00-01.


I don't know... of course none of this has happened, but a perimeter of Irving, Curry, Rivers and Dawkins could be about as good as it gets. That is if they all live up to the hype.


If you're going to throw Dawkins in there I would have to throw Duhon into the 00-01 lineup off the bench, who actually tied for the 4th most minutes on that team. That team also had Battier who spent much of his time on the perimeter and hit 196 3's.

[moonpie23]

That team also had Battier who spent much of his time on the perimeter and hit 196 3's.

money!!!

to a lot of younger peeps, shane is the face of duke basketball............

[MisterRoddy]

What about this years back court?

Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Andre...IMO, as good as any in recent memory.

[oldnavy]

what about this years back court?

Kyrie, nolan, seth, andre...imo, as good as any in recent memory.

IT's ALL GOOD :)

[jimsumner]

"That team also had Battier who spent much of his time on the perimeter and hit 196 3's. "

Actually, he hit 124 3s in 2001.

Battier did spend time on the perimeter, in the same way that Alarie, Ferry, McLeod and numerous other Duke 4/5s did. But, inasmuch as Duke has positions, Battier was always either a 4 or a 5 in 2001. Williams (32 mpg), Dunleavy (29 mpg), Duhon (27 mpg) and James (27 mpg) absorbed most of the minutes at the 1-3, with Buckner, Caldbeck, Simpson et. al. getting the rest.

Also, keep in mind that Battier led Duke in rebounds and blocked shots that season, the latter by a wide margin.

So, for the purposes of this discussion, I do not believe Battier can be considered a backcourt player.

[Kedsy]

What about this years back court?

Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Andre...IMO, as good as any in recent memory.

And if you're counting Dunleavy and James in 2001, you kind of have to count Kyle in this year's backcourt too.

So does that mean if Austin comes to Duke, we'll have the best backcourt since the year before?

[Big Pappa]

And if you're counting Dunleavy and James in 2001, you kind of have to count Kyle in this year's backcourt too.

So does that mean if Austin comes to Duke, we'll have the best backcourt since the year before?

Fair question, I still don't see KI staying past a year to play with Austin, but if he does (IMO) it's a toss-up between that years back court and 2000-2001.

BTW - Jim is correct on Battier's 3-point total, I was looking at 01-02. But, including both Battier and Kyle in the back court stregthens my arguement.

Shane:
Oscar Robertson Trophy (2001)
John R. Wooden Award (2001)
Naismith College Player of the Year (2001)
ACC Athlete of the Year (2001)
NCAA Tournament Most Outstanding Player (2001)
NCAA All-American First Team (2001)
Lowe's Senior CLASS Award (2001)
Two Finals, One Ship
Retired Jersey

Just to name a few.

[jimsumner]

"But, including both Battier and Kyle in the back court stregthens my arguement."

True. As would including your orange harvest in your apples total.

Shane Battier was not a guard in 2001. He was not a perimeter player. Dunleavy in 2001 is an analog to 2010 Singler and likely 2011 Singler.

[El_Diablo]

BTW - Jim is correct on Battier's 3-point total, I was looking at 01-02. But, including both Battier and Kyle in the back court stregthens my arguement.

Shane hit only 103 3-pointers in 01-02. And he wasn't a Blue Devil then.

[Big Pappa]

Shane hit only 103 3-pointers in 01-02. And he wasn't a Blue Devil then.

Not sure where I got the original number I posted, the only thing I can think of is that I saw he shot 296 and said he made 196. My apologies.

[Big Pappa]

"But, including both Battier and Kyle in the back court stregthens my arguement."

True. As would including your orange harvest in your apples total.

Shane Battier was not a guard in 2001. He was not a perimeter player. Dunleavy in 2001 is an analog to 2010 Singler and likely 2011 Singler.

So Battier was a post-only player who attempted almost 300 (296) 3-pointers? I understand that he was inside quite a bit as the "4" on that team, but he also spent a lot of time on the perimeter. I watched (as I'm sure you did) that year and I'm not sure how you can say he wasn't a perimeter players at all.

[CameronBornAndBred]

So Battier was a post-only player who attempted almost 300 (296) 3-pointers?
That's the guy McBobs was trying to be.

[jimsumner]

Well, he led Duke in rebounds and and blocked shots, so that makes him an interior player. Shane also guarded post players almost exclusively, except when switches mandated otherwise.

Look, I'm using traditional nomenclature here and I recognize the fluidity of basketball, especially in Duke's motion offense. Many of Duke's bigs have played effectively on the perimeter as circumstances dictated; Alarie, Ferry, Laettner, Parks, McLeod, et. al. Just as guards like Dawkins and Williams scored inside on alley-oops and post-ups. Doesn't make them centers.

In 2001 Battier was on the court with three of Dunleavy, James, Williams and Duhon and one of Boozer, Sanders or Christensen. He's only a guard if we posit that Duke played with four guards. Is that what you're suggesting?

On the other hand, Singler played most of his minutes last season with two of Zoubek, Thomas, Plumlee and Plumlee. That made him a 3. Battier was a 4 in 2001. Apples and oranges.

[Big Pappa]

Well, he led Duke in rebounds and and blocked shots, so that makes him an interior player. Shane also guarded post players almost exclusively, except when switches mandated otherwise.

Look, I'm using traditional nomenclature here and I recognize the fluidity of basketball, especially in Duke's motion offense. Many of Duke's bigs have played effectively on the perimeter as circumstances dictated; Alarie, Ferry, Laettner, Parks, McLeod, et. al. Just as guards like Dawkins and Williams scored inside on alley-oops and post-ups. Doesn't make them centers.

In 2001 Battier was on the court with three of Dunleavy, James, Williams and Duhon and one of Boozer, Sanders or Christensen. He's only a guard if we posit that Duke played with four guards. Is that what you're suggesting?

On the other hand, Singler played most of his minutes last season with two of Zoubek, Thomas, Plumlee and Plumlee. That made him a 3. Battier was a 4 in 2001. Apples and oranges.

Talk about comparing apples and oranges, our teams couldn't have been more different those two years. We were very big-man heavy last year and in 2001 we were mostly perimeter heavy.

Battier played inside and outside, it's not fair to label him exclusively either. I'm obviously not saying that he was a "guard", maybe we are just arguing semantics. He was a basketball player who, on the defensive end, stayed under the basket and on the offensive end, stayed on the perimeter.

I'm not the one that suggested the comparison between Shane and Kyle, they are not the same type of player, but they both played a lot on the perimeter during their respective careers, especially on offense.

[Kedsy]

Talk about comparing apples and oranges, our teams couldn't have been more different those two years. We were very big-man heavy last year and in 2001 we were mostly perimeter heavy.

Battier played inside and outside, it's not fair to label him exclusively either. I'm obviously not saying that he was a "guard", maybe we are just arguing semantics. He was a basketball player who, on the defensive end, stayed under the basket and on the offensive end, stayed on the perimeter.

I'm not the one that suggested the comparison between Shane and Kyle, they are not the same type of player, but they both played a lot on the perimeter during their respective careers, especially on offense.

We seem to have been having this issue a lot recently. This discussion started when talking about the best Duke backcourts of recent years. And Jim's right, no matter how many 3-pointers Shane Battier shot, he was not a member of Duke's backcourt, just like Danny Ferry and Christian Laettner were not members of their teams' backcourts. I think who is in the backcourt has to be primarily a function of who they defend and only secondarily where they play on offense. In other words, "backcourt" and "hang around on the perimeter on offense" are not the same things.

There are two reasonable definitions of "backcourt" I think we can use here. The more traditional being the PG and the wing guard, and the more "modern" or more inclusive being the PG, the wing guard and the wing forward (if a team plays a wing forward, as most do, rather than two power forwards). Shane was not a member of the backcourt in 2001, under either definition.

Since the person touting the 2001 backcourt was including Mike Dunleavy and Nate James, they would have to be using what I called the more inclusive definition and that would mean Kyle should be included as part of Duke's backcourt next year. In other words, the 2001 backcourt was basically Williams, Duhon, James, and Dunleavy, and the 2011 backcourt will primarily be Kyrie, Nolan, Seth, Andre, and Kyle. (The 2001 team played an eight man rotation, including Casey Sanders and Matt Christensen, although neither Casey nor Matt played a lot of minutes; the 2010 team will probably be playing a nine man rotation which is why there will be one more member of the backcourt in 2011 than there was in 2001.)

Now, if we end up playing three small guards plus Kyle and a Plumlee, then Kyle should not be considered part of the backcourt, just like Shane shouldn't be considered to be part of the 2001 backcourt. But for the purposes of this discussion I'm assuming Kyle will be playing the "3."

[uh_no]

Now, if we end up playing three small guards plus Kyle and a Plumlee, then Kyle should not be considered part of the backcourt, just like Shane shouldn't be considered to be part of the 2001 backcourt.

I don't think there is any issue here.....kyle is playing the 3.....its pretty set in stone.....

[Azdukefan]

I'm not the one that suggested the comparison between Shane and Kyle, they are not the same type of player, but they both played a lot on the perimeter during their respective careers, especially on offense.

First and foremost Big Pappa, thanks for the tweets at the U18. You have become one of the most credible posters in a very short period. And I always look forward to your responses.

However, I will have to respectfully disagree that Kyle and Shane are different players. In fact, I think the most integral part of K's system is the one that Laettner (to a lesser degree than the other two), Shane, and now Kyle play. The inside out power forward is (excuse the pun) where we make our money.

Looking forward, if we can't get someone (potentially, Hairston, Kelly, or a recruit) to take over this role, we won't continue the success we've had. I know that many have said that K1 was a must have (which I agree with now that Kyle is returning), HB would have been more important had Kyle chose not return.

Sorry if I butted in to your conversation. :)

[Kedsy]

I don't think there is any issue here.....kyle is playing the 3.....its pretty set in stone.....

I agree. I was just trying to forestall those who seem to want to turn every thread into a debate about whether Seth Curry is going to start, pushing Kyle to the 4.

[Azdukefan]

Looking forward, if we can't get someone (potentially, Hairston, Kelly, or a recruit) to take over this role, we won't continue the success we've had. I know that many have said that K1 was a must have (which I agree with now that Kyle is returning), HB would have been more important had Kyle chose not return.

I know someone will throw MP2 as a candidate to fill this role (assuming his around after next year) but I think his skill set resembles that of a more "traditional" post player.

[uh_no]

I agree. I was just trying to forestall those who seem to want to turn every thread into a debate about whether Seth Curry is going to start, pushing Kyle to the 4.

thats what I figured. its frustrating when people say he'll play the 4 when everyone remotely related to the team (including k) says otherwise

[Big Pappa]

Well I feel like I am arguing with three different people on three different topics all at the same time lol. It all started with a discussion of who the greatest back court was, and I still believe it was 2000-2001 with Jason, Mike, Nate, and Duhon off the bench. I'm understand your apprehension for including Shane, I really just threw it out there because of the time he spent on the perimeter.

All that being said, it really comes down to semantics. Semantics of what "back court" means, what "guard" means, and what "perimeter" means. I don't think any of us are arguing the same thing and when it's all said and done, I don't think it will matter. It won't matter because the overwhelming odds are that (barring injury) Kyrie will be gone after next year and not ever get to play with Austin in a Duke uniform.

[MisterRoddy]

Well I feel like I am arguing with three different people on three different topics all at the same time lol. It all started with a discussion of who the greatest back court was, and I still believe it was 2000-2001 with Jason, Mike, Nate, and Duhon off the bench. I'm understand your apprehension for including Shane, I really just threw it out there because of the time he spent on the perimeter.

All that being said, it really comes down to semantics. Semantics of what "back court" means, what "guard" means, and what "perimeter" means. I don't think any of us are arguing the same thing and when it's all said and done, I don't think it will matter.


I hate to add a 4th argument but I'm not so sure Kyrie is gone after this year. I realize that he is more than likely a Top 5 pick, but first of all for Kyrie to leave, imo, we'd have to win a championship. Also, as Austin mentioned, while Kyrie was recruiting Rivers, Austin was recruiting Kyrie to stay another year to play with him. Another thing is that Kyrie shapes his game after Chris Paul, who stayed 2 years (and he's alsocompared to Jason Williams, who played multiple years. Another thing that might come up is the possibility of a lockout. Unlikely, IMO, but still a cause for concern. Another thing to keep in mind is that of he stays another year, he will likely be the #1 overall pick in the 2012 draft. Last but not least, everything Kyrie and Coach K (who knows much more than any of us, obviously) have said points to him staying for 2 years. Now I know the NBA is thirsting for 6'3 do-it-all point guards and Kyrie is as good as they come, but I just don't thing the odds are overwhelmly stacked up (but much more 50/50) against him staying for 2 years.

[Azdukefan]

I hate to add a 4th argument but I'm not so sure Kyrie is gone after this year. I realize that he is more than likely a Top 5 pick, but first of all for Kyrie to leave, imo, we'd have to win a championship. Also, as Austin mentioned, while Kyrie was recruiting Rivers, Austin was recruiting Kyrie to stay another year to play with him. Another thing is that Kyrie shapes his game after Chris Paul, who stayed 2 years (and he's alsocompared to Jason Williams, who played multiple years. Another thing that might come up is the possibility of a lockout. Unlikely, IMO, but still a cause for concern. Another thing to keep in mind is that of he stays another year, he will likely be the #1 overall pick in the 2012 draft. Last but not least, everything Kyrie and Coach K (who knows much more than any of us, obviously) have said points to him staying for 2 years. Now I know the NBA is thirsting for 6'3 do-it-all point guards and Kyrie is as good as they come, but I just don't thing the odds are overwhelmly stacked up (but much more 50/50) against him staying for 2 years.

In the interview that Kyrie had with Jay Williams, Kyrie said, "I will be at Duke as long it takes to win a championship." For me that means I hope he is gone at the end of his freshmen year. Now if he wanted to change his statement to "I will be at Duke as long as it takes to win two championships." I would then be hoping for a sophomore departure. In all reality, K1 will only don a Blue Devil uniform for one season.

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Not sure where I got the original number I posted, the only thing I can think of is that I saw he shot 296 and said he made 196. My apologies.

Does your blog give out inaccurate info, too?

[Bay Area Duke Fan]

Well I feel like I am arguing with three different people on three different topics all at the same time lol. It all started with a discussion of who the greatest back court was, and I still believe it was 2000-2001 with Jason, Mike, Nate, and Duhon off the bench. I'm understand your apprehension for including Shane, I really just threw it out there because of the time he spent on the perimeter.

Duhon was in the starting line-up (with Sanders, Battier, Dunleavy and Williams; Boozer and James were off the bench) throughout the NCAA tournament in 2001.

[MisterRoddy]

In the interview that Kyrie had with Jay Williams, Kyrie said, "I will be at Duke as long it takes to win a championship." For me that means I hope he is gone at the end of his freshmen year. Now if he wanted to change his statement to "I will be at Duke as long as it takes to win two championships." I would then be hoping for a sophomore departure. In all reality, K1 will only don a Blue Devil uniform for one season.

Yes, I saw that interview, and it still doesn't change my opinion. I realize that there is a good chance he does leave but it's not as far fetched that he stays as you guys make it out to be. As I have mentioned before, I feel many of y
ou guys were blinded by the exodus of players declaring this past year because of the possibility of a lockout. That wont happen every year.

[Big Pappa]

Does your blog give out inaccurate info, too?


Duhon was in the starting line-up (with Sanders, Battier, Dunleavy and Williams; Boozer and James were off the bench) throughout the NCAA tournament in 2001.

We were talking about the entire year, Duhon started 10 games out of 39. You should really think about what you are typing before you submit it, because you have no idea what you're talking about.

First, it's not my blog, it's airowe's. Second, I was in San Antonio for the game sitting on the floor in media row. Were you? I interviewed KI, Josh, Austin, Quincy, Capel, Hewitt, and Doc. Did you? Do some reading before you throw accusations out.

[Big Pappa]

Yes, I saw that interview, and it still doesn't change my opinion. I realize that there is a good chance he does leave but it's not as far fetched that he stays as you guys make it out to be. As I have mentioned before, I feel many of you guys were blinded by the exodus of players declaring this past year because of the possibility of a lockout. That wont happen every year.

True, but we are talking about guys like:
Armon Bassett, Ohio
Courtney Fortson, Arkansas
Charles Garcia, Seattle
Mac Koshwal, DePaul
Tommy Mason-Griffin, Oklahoma
Elijah Millsap, UAB
Samardo Samuels, Louisville
Jahmar Young, New Mexico State

People told them they probably wouldn't get drafted, but they went anyway. KI will be a top 5 pick. That is a very different circumstance.

[lilblue]

Come on guys this is a Austin Rivers thread, can we stick to the subject. But for arguements sake, a back court of Kyrie, Austin, Dawkins and Thornton my indeed be greater than the backcourt of JWill, Dunleavy, James and Duhon... but we'll just have to wait and see. Bigpappa made an error on Battier's 3 point stats, big deal, let it go! Let's move on!

[MisterRoddy]

True, but we are talking about guys like:
Armon Bassett, Ohio
Courtney Fortson, Arkansas
Charles Garcia, Seattle
Mac Koshwal, DePaul
Tommy Mason-Griffin, Oklahoma
Elijah Millsap, UAB
Samardo Samuels, Louisville
Jahmar Young, New Mexico State

People told them they probably wouldn't get drafted, but they went anyway. KI will be a top 5 pick. That is a very different circumstance.

These guys also played for mediocre teams and most likely didn't have the best experience. Hopefully, Kyrie's situation will be different.

Yes, we probably should. move this argument to the KI Thread.

[_Gary]

There are two reasonable definitions of "backcourt" I think we can use here. The more traditional being the PG and the wing guard, and the more "modern" or more inclusive being the PG, the wing guard and the wing forward (if a team plays a wing forward, as most do, rather than two power forwards). Shane was not a member of the backcourt in 2001, under either definition.

Bingo! Laying aside all the "what ifs" involved in these type of discussions ("What if Kyrie is gone", "What if ____ doesn't live up to the hype", etc) I think we have to distinguish between the traditional and modern backcourts if we are going to reasonable debate this topic.

On the traditional side (again remembering that I'm assuming KI, SC and AR live up to the hype and KI stays) I'd have to give the nod to that potential 2011 lineup. If we are looking at just PGs and SGs, how can a trio of Kyrie, Seth and Austin not be absolutely phenomenal? It has to supercede what we had in 2001 even though I dearly love Jason and Chris.

On the modern side, it definitely starts to swing back to the 2001 squad. Being able to add Dun and James to that "backcourt" is extremely impressive, and Mike was really playing well at the end of that championship run. Heck, so was Nate.

Just my two cents. But I'm right. Of that there can be no doubt. So everyone just stop the debate here and get back to talking exclusively about Austin in this thread. :D


Gary

[Big Pappa]

...get back to talking exclusively about Austin in this thread.

Agreed. Nice SI article from Luke Winn about his USA time:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/02/rivers.notes/

[oldnavy]

Agreed. Nice SI article from Luke Winn about his USA time:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/luke_winn/07/02/rivers.notes/

I really hope Luke Winn has it right this time and Austin does come to Duke. I am so looking forward to having a true point guard with KI, and if he does stay an additional year and could team up with AR and Seth Curry and Andre, WOW!!

Can you have too many great guards???

[moonpie23]

i'll believe it when they announce it from the Athletic Dept........

[duketaylor]

any day now we'll know.

[MisterRoddy]

any day now we'll know.

I certainly hope so but....care to explain??

[Newton_14]

I certainly hope so but....care to explain??

The "insiders" all say August announcement. Maybe "any day now" means August??

[MisterRoddy]

The "insiders" all say August announcement. Maybe "any day now" means August??

Well, the "insiders" say it because Austin, himself, said it. And I certainly hope that "any day now" and a month from now aren't interchangeable nowadays.

[DukeBlueNV]

I'm not an "insider" but I wouldn't expect an announcment anytime soon. Now that Doc is getting more involved I would think he would have Austin make some more visits before making a final decision. So I would at least wait for him to make his visit to UNC *barf* and maybe an official to Florida (?). Then we should wait to see what he says about a time frame for making a choice...

So far I feel like we are in great shape but a lot can change and I'd never underestimate Roy, as much as we can't stand the guy he is IMO the best clean recruiter in the game right now. But from what I have read and seen I trust that he will choose Duke in the end.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm not an "insider" but I wouldn't expect an announcment anytime soon. Now that Doc is getting more involved I would think he would have Austin make some more visits before making a final decision. So I would at least wait for him to make his visit to UNC *barf* and maybe an official to Florida (?). Then we should wait to see what he says about a time frame for making a choice...

So far I feel like we are in great shape but a lot can change and I'd never underestimate Roy, as much as we can't stand the guy he is IMO the best clean recruiter in the game right now. But from what I have read and seen I trust that he will choose Duke in the end.

From what I understand, I don't think there are any official visits until students have at least started their senior year of high school.

[WiJoe]

... Roy, as much as we can't stand the guy he is IMO the best clean recruiter ...


if by "clean" you mean a guy who bad mouths DUKE, then ...

No friggin' way!

[WiJoe]

from NCAA.org

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/NCAA/Legislation%20and%20Governance/Eligibility%20and%20Recruiting/Faqs/recruiting

Official Visit
Any visit to a college campus by you and your parents paid for by the college. The college may pay the following expenses:
• Your transportation to and from the college;
• Room and meals (three per day) while you are visiting the college; and
• Reasonable entertainment expenses, including three complimentary admissions to a home athletics contest.

Before a college may invite you on an official visit, you will have to provide the college with a copy of your high school transcript (Division I only) and SAT, ACT or PLAN score and register with the NCAA Eligibility Center.

[K>Roy]

So far I feel like we are in great shape but a lot can change and I'd never underestimate Roy, as much as we can't stand the guy he is IMO the best clean recruiter in the game right now.

Roy is clean? On what planet?

[El_Diablo]

Roy is clean? On what planet?

Uranus.

[Big Pappa]

Roy is clean? On what planet?


Uranus.

Post of the Day - El Diablo

[WiJoe]

Uranus.



http://instantrimshot.com/

[oldnavy]

Roy is clean? On what planet?

I dislike Roy as much if not more than most on this board, but I have never heard of him being on the outside of the NCAA rules when it comes to recruiting. Why would you say that he isn't "clean"?

His Devon Roe incident was distasteful, but not illegal, and we lost HB to him which was painful. Are there specific examples of him breaking NCAA rules that you or anyone else are aware of or am I just using a limited definition of the word clean?

[Duke79UNLV77]

I dislike Roy as much if not more than most on this board, but I have never heard of him being on the outside of the NCAA rules when it comes to recruiting. Why would you say that he isn't "clean"?

His Devon Roe incident was distasteful, but not illegal, and we lost HB to him which was painful. Are there specific examples of him breaking NCAA rules that you or anyone else are aware of or am I just using a limited definition of the word clean?

While the violations weren't major, Kansas took a 1 scholarship hit upon Ole Roy's departure. Also, KU's compliance office did not recall Ole Roy's purported calls to check on the rules.

Deshawn Stevenson traveled from California to North Carolina and improved his SAT score by 700 points. Ole Roy defended Stevenson as having studied hard when the NCAA noticed. The scenario was worse than Rose, except the NCAA caught it earlier.

Ole Roy was the coach for much of ticketgate at KU, but apparently records are missing from his time. Morningstar's dad reportedly made a million off of ticket sales. I would think a million dollars should have been noticeable.

[DukeBlueNV]

I would say Roy is pretty clean compared to Cal right? I've never heard that Stevenson story and I'll admit that is kinda sketchy. Roy is a great recruiter and just because he ruffled a couple of feathers with some of his tactics, I wouldn't call him "dirty" maybe "cuthroat" would be better. But I'd say overall he is on the cleaner side of college coaching. A good example would be his refusal to recruit John Wall because of the shady character that was Brian Clifton... looks like he made a good call there by staying on the "clean" side.

[amazinballer323]

Stevenson was considered to be the top recruit ever (some sources say) coming out of high school and he committed to Kansas. His first SAT was I believe like a 450, not good enough to clear him, so when he re took the test months later in North Carolina for whatever reason (Roy's state keep in mind) he had an 1150. The NCAA told him to follow it up with another qualifying score as they didn't buy the 700 point jump, and his next test didn't even score 600 points I believe, so Stevenson went to the pros.

He's one of my favorite players, being from the same city :)

[SilkyJ]

The "insiders" all say August announcement. Maybe "any day now" means August??

I don't know duketaylor personally, but for those that don't know he's a long time member of the board and in the past has certainly seemed to have some connections.

I'm sure that whatever has caused him to say "2 weeks" about 3 weeks ago and then "any day now" is not him just saying something. He has a source, I'm sure they are affiliated with Duke, and they are clearly telling him something. Of course, others with sources connected to Duke have pointed more towards August, so choose who you want to believe.

At the end of the day the announcement is coming soon, maybe its this week, maybe its in a month, and then we can all start freaking out over Quincy or someone else...

[Class of '94]

I don't know duketaylor personally, but for those that don't know he's a long time member of the board and in the past has certainly seemed to have some connections.

I'm sure that whatever has caused him to say "2 weeks" about 3 weeks ago and then "any day now" is not him just saying something. He has a source, I'm sure they are affiliated with Duke, and they are clearly telling him something. Of course, others with sources connected to Duke have pointed more towards August, so choose who you want to believe.

At the end of the day the announcement is coming soon, maybe its this week, maybe its in a month, and then we can all start freaking out over Quincy or someone else...

Are we going with the assumption that whenever he makes the announcement, the choice will be Duke?

[oldnavy]

While the violations weren't major, Kansas took a 1 scholarship hit upon Ole Roy's departure. Also, KU's compliance office did not recall Ole Roy's purported calls to check on the rules.

Deshawn Stevenson traveled from California to North Carolina and improved his SAT score by 700 points. Ole Roy defended Stevenson as having studied hard when the NCAA noticed. The scenario was worse than Rose, except the NCAA caught it earlier.

Ole Roy was the coach for much of ticketgate at KU, but apparently records are missing from his time. Morningstar's dad reportedly made a million off of ticket sales. I would think a million dollars should have been noticeable.

I must admit that I had never heard of these incidents, but then again I did not follow KU closely. I knew that he backed off of Wall and assumed that it had to do with his shady Clifton association.

If he is breaking/bending the rules I certainly hope that he gets caught, but until he is "convicted" of cheating I will continue to give him the presumption of innocence. That doesn't change the fact that I find him disingenuous, egomaniacal, and a poor in-game coach.

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

Did anyone read the responses at the bottom of Nolan's blog? There is a poster named "Austin" who made a comment about a "3peat." Also noticed Nolan responding other posters above and below Austin but he did not respond to Austin. That can't be a coincidence. It must be a sign...:rolleyes:

[SilkyJ]

Are we going with the assumption that whenever he makes the announcement, the choice will be Duke?

No, but when he makes the announcement the hand-wringing over where he will attend college will be over and will move on to someone else, regardless of where he chooses.

At least for me it will end, if he picks another school I'm sure there will be a 250 post thread about it and 245 of those posts will compare him to Barnes. I just won't participate in that thread. Something about "next play" would be appropriate here...

[MisterRoddy]

Are we going with the assumption that whenever he makes the announcement, the choice will be Duke?

Well, personally, I'm going to go ahead with the assumption that if he does make his announcement in a week or so, it will be to Duke.

[roywhite]

No, but when he makes the announcement the hand-wringing over where he will attend college will be over and will move on to someone else, regardless of where he chooses.
At least for me it will end, if he picks another school I'm sure there will be a 250 post thread about it and 245 of those posts will compare him to Barnes. I just won't participate in that thread. Something about "next play" would be appropriate here...

There's a question...what's the next mega-thread on the board?

Judging by the John Wall and Harrison Barnes threads, it will probably involve a recruit.

[oldnavy]

There's a question...what's the next mega-thread on the board?

Judging by the John Wall and Harrison Barnes threads, it will probably involve a recruit.

I vote for a thread on a 101 reasons to bust on Ol Roy, but that is a personal problem I have. Maybe I should consider therapy??? :confused:

[Duvall]

There's a question...what's the next mega-thread on the board?

Either "2011 ACC ROY - Barnes vs. Irving?" or "Shabazz Muhammad recruiting thread." Take your pick. Or it could be "Kyle, Nolan, Kyrie and Mason - draft status."

[slower]

Stevenson was considered to be the top recruit ever (some sources say) coming out of high school...

that is a TOTALLY ridiculous and untrue statement.

[Big Pappa]

Well, personally, I'm going to go ahead with the assumption that if he does make his announcement in a week or so, it will be to Duke.

Good point. The sooner the announcement from Austin comes, the better chance of it being Duke. He is, by his own admission, currently a Duke lean. The longer guys like Roy have to recruit him, the better chance of him going elsewhere.

[oldnavy]

Good point. The sooner the announcement from Austin comes, the better chance of it being Duke. He is, by his own admission, currently a Duke lean. The longer guys like Roy have to recruit him, the better chance of him going elsewhere.

This actually brings up a question in my mind. What would UNC have to offer AR that Duke would not? With HB, we all know that his mom was a major factor in his decision and his middle name is Jordan –this proved too much to overcome.

So, without that bias to overcome, what on earth could Roy say or offer that could not be countered by Coach K and Duke? Couldn't sell him on TV exposure, Duke is almost overexposed on TV. Couldn't be game time atmosphere, unless AR likes to hear his shoes squeak. Couldn't be academics. Couldn't be playing styles or PT, Duke has shown time and time again that with a fast PG that we push the ball, and this will be on display again with KI next year. Couldn't be coaching, Coach K is acknowledged as the best in the business, a fact I am sure Doc would second. Couldn’t be alumni in the pro’s. Couldn’t be National Championships…

So, what would UNC have to offer AR??

[MisterRoddy]

This actually brings up a question in my mind. What would UNC have to offer AR that Duke would not? With HB, we all know that his mom was a major factor in his decision and his middle name is Jordan –this proved too much to overcome.

So, without that bias to overcome, what on earth could Roy say or offer that could not be countered by Coach K and Duke? Couldn't sell him on TV exposure, Duke is almost overexposed on TV. Couldn't be game time atmosphere, unless AR likes to hear his shoes squeak. Couldn't be academics. Couldn't be playing styles or PT, Duke has shown time and time again that with a fast PG that we push the ball, and this will be on display again with KI next year. Couldn't be coaching, Coach K is acknowledged as the best in the business, a fact I am sure Doc would second. Couldn’t be alumni in the pro’s. Couldn’t be National Championships…

So, what would UNC have to offer AR??

There are many things, whether it be the Dean Dome, Kendall Marshall (eck), or the Chapel Hill campus. A kid wants what a kid wants and sometimes, its something Duke doesn't have.

The things you mentioned that we have can't hurt, though.

[Duvall]

This actually brings up a question in my mind. What would UNC have to offer AR that Duke would not? With HB, we all know that his mom was a major factor in his decision and his middle name is Jordan –this proved too much to overcome.

So, without that bias to overcome, what on earth could Roy say or offer that could not be countered by Coach K and Duke? Couldn't sell him on TV exposure, Duke is almost overexposed on TV. Couldn't be game time atmosphere, unless AR likes to hear his shoes squeak. Couldn't be academics. Couldn't be playing styles or PT, Duke has shown time and time again that with a fast PG that we push the ball, and this will be on display again with KI next year. Couldn't be coaching, Coach K is acknowledged as the best in the business, a fact I am sure Doc would second. Couldn’t be alumni in the pro’s. Couldn’t be National Championships…

So, what would UNC have to offer AR??

Fit. Feel. Chemistry, and other intangible things.

UNC may not have an advantage in the areas you listed, but they don't have much of a disadvantage there either. Ultimately it should come down to where the kid wants to be.

[oldnavy]

Fit. Feel. Chemistry, and other intangible things.

UNC may not have an advantage in the areas you listed, but they don't have much of a disadvantage there either. Ultimately it should come down to where the kid wants to be.

No, I get that if the kid wants to go there then he will. The point of my question is this; if a kid is a Duke lean, then what could Roy offer (tangible) that Duke doesn't have? Maybe this is a dumb question and cannot be answered since too many intangibles factor in the decision. I guess if a kid, in this case Austin meets with Roy, and the UNC players and just "clicks", then well it is what it is. I just was thinking about what kind of "sell" Roy or any coach for that matter could put on him to convince him that UNC (or other school) would be a better place for him if he is leaning towards Duke.

[roywhite]

No, I get that if the kid wants to go there then he will. The point of my question is this; if a kid is a Duke lean, then what could Roy offer (tangible) that Duke doesn't have? Maybe this is a dumb question and cannot be answered since too many intangibles factor in the decision. I guess if a kid, in this case Austin meets with Roy, and the UNC players and just "clicks", then well it is what it is. I just was thinking about what kind of "sell" Roy or any coach for that matter could put on him to convince him that UNC (or other school) would be a better place for him if he is leaning towards Duke.

More sizzle? The chance to rub elbows with the great Michael Jordan?

Isn't that what happened with HB...perhaps leaning to Duke but was dazzled by his visit to UNC.

Honestly, I think most of these kids make good decisions...that is, pick the place where they are best suited. I don't mind if Austin Rivers looks around and even takes a good look at UNC. And if he really decides that would be best for him, life will go on.

That said, I like our chances.

[Bluedog]

The point of my question is this; if a kid is a Duke lean, then what could Roy offer (tangible) that Duke doesn't have?

More (by sheer number) attractive southern belles. And you think I'm kidding. Not that Roy would do this directly (or indirectly for that matter), but for certain 17-year-old boys, having more attractive blonde coeds with all else being even is a big selling point in college. For the record, I don't think Austin would have this high on his list as he has Doc steering him and has a steady girlfriend anyways, but I'd be willing to bet major money that certain recruits in the past choose universities based on parties they attend when visiting and how/by whom they get mobbed with. This was an article I read a while back saying how universities sell sex in certain ways when recruits visit. Again, I'm not saying UNC does this, but certain schools have reputations. Another factor is the "coolness" factor. Duke lost some of its luster, but has regained much of it. But in certain circles, going to UK, for example, is much more "cool" than Duke. Just saying there are a lot of intangibles that we can't really control. And while you say academics can't be a factor, HB said he wanted to major in business and Duke doesn't offer that major (of course Duke grads are hugely successful in business anyways, but some athletes want a straight up business/management degree before pursuing pro sports).

[oldnavy]

More sizzle? The chance to rub elbows with the great Michael Jordan?

Isn't that what happened with HB...perhaps leaning to Duke but was dazzled by his visit to UNC.

Honestly, I think most of these kids make good decisions...that is, pick the place where they are best suited. I don't mind if Austin Rivers looks around and even takes a good look at UNC. And if he really decides that would be best for him, life will go on.

That said, I like our chances.

More sizzle? Not sure about this, seems to me that he was a UNC lean all along and the fact that his mom was enamored by MJ was the last straw.

I do agree with everything else you stated.

[Cockabeau]

HB was going to UNC all along there was nothing K could do. I refuse to say anything about Rivers because I do not want to jinx what I believe to be a done deal for a long time...

[amazinballer323]

that is a TOTALLY ridiculous and untrue statement.

"After the 6-foot-5 shooting guard committed to play for Kansas, coach Roy Williams called him his most gifted recruit ever."

[blueduke59]

I must admit that I had never heard of these incidents, but then again I did not follow KU closely. I knew that he backed off of Wall and assumed that it had to do with his shady Clifton association.

If he is breaking/bending the rules I certainly hope that he gets caught, but until he is "convicted" of cheating I will continue to give him the presumption of innocence. That doesn't change the fact that I find him disingenuous, egomaniacal, and a poor in-game coach.

You must have also missed Roy's recruitment of Lester Earl. Or the fact he was irritated Billy Donovan signed a player he wanted and promptly snitched on Billy. Billy was cleared of any wrong doing by the way. "Clean" is not a good description for Roy Williams. "Petty", "Two-faced", "Sneaky", and "Deceitful" would be more appropriate

[uh_no]

Or it could be "Kyle, Nolan, Kyrie and Mason "

no dude it'll be

Kyrie
Nolan
Curry
Kyle
Miles

.....oh wait

you weren't bringing up the starting lineup.....

[bradvinjack]

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2010/07/1-on-1-with-myck-kabongo/

Here's a link to a interview that highschoolhoop had with Kabongo and he mentions where he thinks his good friend Austin will be playing his college ball.

[jennja01]

IMO, this is huge for us. In a previous interview with highschoolhoop.com, Austin said his two best friends on the aau circuit are Myck Kabongo and Kyrie. If Myck believes he's gonna be at Duke, that can only mean good things for us. Maybe this announcement is coming up soon after all....:)

[WiJoe]

I'm warning you all, don't fall for this!


:mad:

[Kedsy]

I'm warning you all, don't fall for this!


:mad:

I agree. From reading the front page article it sounds like he's planning on taking his official visits in the Fall. That doesn't jibe with an August announcement or anything else people have been saying.

I sincerely hope duketaylor and others are correct about a favorable announcement in the very near future, but I'm not holding my breath on either point.

[_Gary]

I agree. From reading the front page article it sounds like he's planning on taking his official visits in the Fall. That doesn't jibe with an August announcement or anything else people have been saying.

I sincerely hope duketaylor and others are correct about a favorable announcement in the very near future, but I'm not holding my breath on either point.

Me neither. In fact, although I'll be labeled party pooper of the year for this, I have to say that I honestly believe Austin coming to Duke vs UNC is a coin flip at this point. If you read everything the young man has said about what he's looking for in a college bb system, UNC has the same ingredients Duke has - uptempo offense, man to man defense (although we have to get a nod there), winning program, and a history of putting people in the Association. All I'm saying is that personally, I'm never again counting chickens before they hatch when it comes to recruiting. The recruit that shall not be named cured me of that once and for all. Everyone and their grandmother (except UNC fans) told us a certain player was coming here and most of us got the nasty shock of our life when he went to Hell instead. I'm not going to get my hopes up any more.

I give a simple word of warning to everyone - don't count on it and you won't be disappointed. Count on it and you might just get another shock!


Gary

[roywhite]

Santa, we've been good.

Please bring us this new toy. :)

Oh, and throw in a big guy or two, if you don't mind.

[MisterRoddy]

I'm warning you all, don't fall for this!


:mad:

I'm digging the pun :)

[muzikfrk75]

Santa, we've been good.

Please bring us this new toy. :)

Oh, and throw in a big guy or two, if you don't mind.

New toy?????

[WiJoe]

I'm digging the pun :)



Oh, for gosh sake. No pun intended!!!!

:cool:

[OldPhiKap]

I agree. From reading the front page article it sounds like he's planning on taking his official visits in the Fall. That doesn't jibe with an August announcement or anything else people have been saying.

I sincerely hope duketaylor and others are correct about a favorable announcement in the very near future, but I'm not holding my breath on either point.

Ditto and ditto.

[PADukeMom]

Santa, we've been good.

Please bring us this new toy. :)

Oh, and throw in a big guy or two, if you don't mind.

Heck on Santa!!! I am hoping for an answer by The Great Pumpkin!

[uh_no]

I say Rivers is as good as commited. and Marshall Plumlee committing in the coming days. I think we'll also possibly add quin cook,

did you also think we had john wall and harrison barnes in the bag?

a little optimistic me thinks....how about we wait until these guys actually commit....

[Duvall]

did you also think we had john wall and harrison barnes in the bag?

Who thought John Wall was in the bag?

I mean, it's fine to be skeptical. It's not like it makes a difference. But neither of those guys ever described Duke as leading for their services, and Rivers has.

[CDu]

I say Rivers is as good as commited. So with Tyler Adams and Gbinije already committed, and Marshall Plumlee committing in the coming days. [redacted]. Also since Irving may (oh please no don't do it, fingers crossed) be one and done we'll need a new point.

Well, if we got Cook, wouldn't that fill the PG position? And I agree with the previous poster. This a little too optimistic for my taste. Something about counting chickens...

[sdotbarbee]

did you also think we had john wall and harrison barnes in the bag?

a little optimistic me thinks....how about we wait until these guys actually commit....

Why do people on this board get jumped all over for being optimistic? If someone has a good feeling about a recruit because of something they may have read and they post it other people become so negative. I like the confidence that people have in our coaching staff to land these guys. I am also confident that we land Rivers and I think that if our coaching staff wants MP3 then we will get him. I would love to get Q Miller but I also agree with ThePublisher there that he will ultimately end up at UK and be a one in done in Cal's stable. I think we all get too caught up in the whole Barnes fiasco and I believe that worked out better for us since that probably kept Singler around for his senior year.

[uh_no]

Who thought John Wall was in the bag?

I mean, it's fine to be skeptical. It's not like it makes a difference. But neither of those guys ever described Duke as leading for their services, and Rivers has.

a good number of people on this board were quite convinced that both john wall and/or harrison barnes would be at duke

I was simply pointing out to this guy who seems quite certain that both austin and marshall will come to duke that there have been numerous times in the past where people on this board, and media pundits were all certain about duke, and it didn't happen.....

[sdotbarbee]

(original poster ThePublisher) "I think we'll also possibly add quin cook, since I think Quincy Miller is the Kentucky type, which means we don't want him anyway."

I'm all for optimism and I always wear "deep blue shades", but I found your above statement to be baseless and in bad form. Please explain what is a "Kentucky type". I'm assuming by your statement that being a "Kentucky type" is a negative thing, so what do you know about Quincy Miller that puts him into that category?
It appears from everything I've read, Duke is very much in Quincy's recruitment. I doubt K would say no to a verbal just because Quincy is one of those "Kentucky types".

Read more, post less.
Maybe he meant a one and done type which typically is not what coach K looks for. UK has the advantage because Cal puts guys in the league and Q is really good friends with J Wall. QM visited him multiple times while he was at UK. Anyway I would love to land Miller, he is a great kid and one hell of a player but in my gut I feel like he is a UK lean with Duke second, but things can change.

[_Gary]

Why do people on this board get jumped all over for being optimistic? If someone has a good feeling about a recruit because of something they may have read and they post it other people become so negative. I like the confidence that people have in our coaching staff to land these guys. I am also confident that we land Rivers and I think that if our coaching staff wants MP3 then we will get him.

And for the record our coaching staff did want John Wall and Harrison Barnes and pursued both guys heavily. Duke doesn't automatically get whoever they go after, so it's not as easy as saying we have confidence in our coaching staff that who they want they can get. It just doesn't work that way.

The bigger issue with Rivers, and the reason I am issuing caution, is that UNC is in the mix. It's one thing to lose a recruit (especially one that seems to be leaning toward Duke) to other schools. It's something else entirely to lose that guy to the Heels. That's the cruelest of blows and in this case everything Rivers has said publicly about what he's looking for in a school can and does apply to UNC just as it does to Duke. I'm just saying lets not count those chickens...

Better to be pleasantly surprised than horribly let down.

[sdotbarbee]

And for the record our coaching staff did want John Wall and Harrison Barnes and pursued both guys heavily. Duke doesn't automatically get whoever they go after, so it's not as easy as saying we have confidence in our coaching staff that who they want they can get. It just doesn't work that way.

The bigger issue with Rivers, and the reason I am issuing caution, is that UNC is in the mix. It's one thing to lose a recruit (especially one that seems to be leaning toward Duke) to other schools. It's something else entirely to lose that guy to the Heels. That's the cruelest of blows and in this case everything Rivers has said publicly about what he's looking for in a school can and does apply to UNC just as it does to Duke. I'm just saying lets not count those chickens...

Better to be pleasantly surprised than horribly let down.

I don't think I said we didn't go after J Wall and HB and I sure didn't say we automatically get who we want, I said I am confident that we land Rivers and I think that if our coaching staff wants MP3 then we will get him. MP3 is only a 4 star recruit and if it is down to Duke, unc, and UVA I like our chances since his brothers both play at Duke and we just won the title. I am just saying I would be shocked if Rivers committed to unc instead of Duke, could it happen? Of course but from what Rivers is wearing, what his close friends are saying and him decommiting from UF and asking Duke to recruit him, I think he will be wearing a Duke uniform.

[ncexnyc]

Why do people on this board get jumped all over for being optimistic? If someone has a good feeling about a recruit because of something they may have read and they post it other people become so negative. I like the confidence that people have in our coaching staff to land these guys. I am also confident that we land Rivers and I think that if our coaching staff wants MP3 then we will get him. I would love to get Q Miller but I also agree with ThePublisher there that he will ultimately end up at UK and be a one in done in Cal's stable. I think we all get too caught up in the whole Barnes fiasco and I believe that worked out better for us since that probably kept Singler around for his senior year.

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic, unfortunately there are a number of folks on this board who get carried away with their sunny outlooks and take things personally when the situation heads south.

Suddenly the sure thing who decides not to attend Duke, (see John Wall & Harrison Barnes) is suddenly on the receiving end of less than positive comments about their skill level and character.

[CDu]

There's nothing wrong with being optimistic, unfortunately there are a number of folks on this board who get carried away with their sunny outlooks and take things personally when the situation heads south.

Suddenly the sure thing who decides not to attend Duke, (see John Wall & Harrison Barnes) is suddenly on the receiving end of less than positive comments about their skill level and character.

Agreed. I can't stand it when a person gushes all over a player prior to his commitment then turns and slams that player every which way if the player commits to another team.

Hopefully it won't be an issue in this case.

[Duvall]

a good number of people on this board were quite convinced that both john wall and/or harrison barnes would be at duke

Except that, with respect to Wall, this didn't actually happen.


I was simply pointing out to this guy who seems quite certain that both austin and marshall will come to duke that there have been numerous times in the past where people on this board, and media pundits were all certain about duke, and it didn't happen.....

And there have been more times when people were confident that a player would commit to Duke, and they then proceeded to do just that. Ultimately, why does it matter?

[sdotbarbee]

It is just crazy how negative some people can be on this board, it is like HB burned everyone so bad that they don't get excited. With Rivers look at all the positives for Duke, he decommits from UF and wants Coach K and Duke to recruit him, he was roommates with Irving at the U18 championship, and was seen multiple times wearing Duke gear. All of these things get me excited about the kid but then you have the Debbie downers on this board to find something negative to throw in. I mean Rivers asked coach K to recruit him, roy just showed up and threw his hat in the ring. Rivers didn't ask for that, he asked for Duke and K. We are all huge Duke fans so why do we try and bring other Duke fans down, let people be excited, plus we are National Champions we shouldn't be down about anything these days.

[uh_no]

saying that people shouldn't be so excited about a recruit who hasn't committed and might not for several months is NOT being pessimistic.....being pessimistic is saying that the recruit ISN'T going to commit. I don't think anyone here, myself included, has said that.

What has been said is that people need to be a little bit more cautious in their optimism.

People have brought up 'hints' as to why AR might commit here. There were 'hints' with HB too....what shirt his mom wore on X day, what he said on N blog, what Q talking head said about his chances.

Saying things like 'if K wants MP3, he'll get him' are completely unsubstantiated, especially when marshall has said he WON'T come to duke just because his brothers are here.....

now do we have reason to believe that AR will commit at some point? all signs point to yes. Does this mean we should make promises that he'll commit 'very soon' or that he's guaranteed to come here? no

none of this is pessimistic, and if it is, please let me know.....its very realistic, and not ridiculously optimistic as some people on this board are

[lilblue]

If you don't want to read about peoples opinions, feelings, or speculation regarding a specific recruits recruiting progress/process then don't read the thread... Just wait until the heading reads "Recruit A" commits to "School D", since that is all that you care about. This stuff makes some people happy and take up time between seasons, so just leave people to have their fun and go about you pessimistic existence waiting for an official announcement!:cool:

[uh_no]

If you don't want to read about peoples opinions, feelings, or speculation regarding a specific recruits recruiting progress/process then don't read the thread... Just wait until the heading reads "Recruit A" commits to "School D", since that is all that you care about. This stuff makes some people happy and take up time between seasons, so just leave people to have their fun and go about you pessimistic existence waiting for an official announcement!:cool:

actually baseless speculation is generally frowned upon.....

[sdotbarbee]

actually baseless speculation is generally frowned upon.....

Isn't the name of this thread "Austin Rivers-where there is smoke, there is fire"? Everything on this thread is baseless speculation until he actually commits or tells someone what his plans are. As far as MP3 if his decision is coming soon and he has narrowed the schools down to Duke, unc, and UVA, he only has offers from Duke and UVA according to scout so that would rule out unc. Do you think if our coaching staff would lose out on a recruit to UVA?

[Kedsy]

Isn't the name of this thread "Austin Rivers-where there is smoke, there is fire"? Everything on this thread is baseless speculation until he actually commits or tells someone what his plans are. As far as MP3 if his decision is coming soon and he has narrowed the schools down to Duke, unc, and UVA, he only has offers from Duke and UVA according to scout so that would rule out unc. Do you think if our coaching staff would lose out on a recruit to UVA?

There are a lot of subtexts here. First of all, I don't think anybody here wants to deny you the right to be as optimistic and giddy as you wish. Though there's a difference between saying "I have a good feeling about this" and saying "this is going to happen." (And I'm not making any judgment as to which side of the equation your previous statements have fallen; I honestly don't remember and don't care enough to look it up.)

I think part of some people's reactions are fueled by a pseudo-superstitious fear of jinxing a good thing by taking it for granted. That's not your problem, it's theirs. I also think the biggest part of the backlash is caused by the fact that in the past a lot of the people who were most optimistic about things (like HB's recruitment but it's certainly not the only example) have instantly gone 180 and spewed the most negative and hurtful things when their original optimistic feelings turned out to be misplaced. Once people decide they've won something in advance, the hurt when they lose is a lot more intense, and many of these people have not been shy about expressing that pain. But it's no fun to listen to, so many people advise caution in advance to hopefully keep the potential bitter rants to a minimum.

As far as your most recent statements about MP3, you appear to be making several possibly unwarranted assumptions. First, as far as I know it's only been one source said it was down to Duke, UNC, and UVa, and that has been disputed by other sources, so I wouldn't base any certainties on that. Second, Scout is certainly a source but I wouldn't bet the house based on Scout's determination of who has offered scholarships to whom. Third, even if UNC hasn't offered yet, if MP3 says he's deciding among three schools and UNC is one of them then it's probably safe to assume that Roy has suggested an offer could be forthcoming. The current lack of an offer certainly wouldn't "rule out" anything. Finally, over the years Duke has lost several recruits to UVa. It's a little arrogant to assume it couldn't happen again, especially if MP3 thinks he could start and star at UVa but possibly sit on the bench at Duke.

In short, neither MP3 nor AR will be over until they're over.

[sdotbarbee]

There are a lot of subtexts here. First of all, I don't think anybody here wants to deny you the right to be as optimistic and giddy as you wish. Though there's a difference between saying "I have a good feeling about this" and saying "this is going to happen." (And I'm not making any judgment as to which side of the equation your previous statements have fallen; I honestly don't remember and don't care enough to look it up.)

I think part of some people's reactions are fueled by a pseudo-superstitious fear of jinxing a good thing by taking it for granted. That's not your problem, it's theirs. I also think the biggest part of the backlash is caused by the fact that in the past a lot of the people who were most optimistic about things (like HB's recruitment but it's certainly not the only example) have instantly gone 180 and spewed the most negative and hurtful things when their original optimistic feelings turned out to be misplaced. Once people decide they've won something in advance, the hurt when they lose is a lot more intense, and many of these people have not been shy about expressing that pain. But it's no fun to listen to, so many people advise caution in advance to hopefully keep the potential bitter rants to a minimum.

As far as your most recent statements about MP3, you appear to be making several possibly unwarranted assumptions. First, as far as I know it's only been one source said it was down to Duke, UNC, and UVa, and that has been disputed by other sources, so I wouldn't base any certainties on that. Second, Scout is certainly a source but I wouldn't bet the house based on Scout's determination of who has offered scholarships to whom. Third, even if UNC hasn't offered yet, if MP3 says he's deciding among three schools and UNC is one of them then it's probably safe to assume that Roy has suggested an offer could be forthcoming. The current lack of an offer certainly wouldn't "rule out" anything. Finally, over the years Duke has lost several recruits to UVa. It's a little arrogant to assume it couldn't happen again, especially if MP3 thinks he could start and star at UVa but possibly sit on the bench at Duke.

In short, neither MP3 nor AR will be over until they're over.


I said I had a good feeling and am excited about Rivers since "you don't remember and don't care enough to look it up."

And HB is HB you win some and you lose some plain and simple. Miles said he expects his brother to make a decision "reasonably soon this summer" and his coach has said the decision would probably come late July or early August. I think that bodes well for the two schools that have put an offer on the table, in Duke and UVA. Who has Duke recruited that they lost to UVA? How many years are you going back, because the last 15 years they have not lost a recruit to UVA.

[cato]

Everything on this thread is baseless speculation until he actually commits or tells someone what his plans are.

That is not necessarily true. Some posters may have some base for their speculation. Now, how one figures which people are providing baseless speculation and which people are providing informed speculation, that's up in the air. And, since we are dealing with teenagers, even commitments are subject to change. Just ask Florida.

[SupaDave]

And in Austin related news - he's actually playing ball this summer. Let's see if we can appreciate that.

He shoot 60% in U18 games from three. I'm still trying to comprehend that. Worry about the rest later - PLEASE.

[Duvall]

And in Austin related news - he's actually playing ball this summer. Let's see if we can appreciate that.

He shoot 60% in U18 games from three. I'm still trying to comprehend that. Worry about the rest later - PLEASE.

Who cares about that? Most of those games are AAU ball, little more than glorified pick-up nonsense.

[sdotbarbee]

That is not necessarily true. Some posters may have some base for their speculation. Now, how one figures which people are providing baseless speculation and which people are providing informed speculation, that's up in the air. And, since we are dealing with teenagers, even commitments are subject to change. Just ask Florida.

Bottom line is that all of it is speculation and we won't know until Rivers wants us too so all we can do now is read into what he says in interviews or his choice of clothing. Can someone tell me how Q Miller gets MVP of the U18 tourney and not Rivers? Maybe I missed something but I thought Rivers had a won

[G man]

Who cares about that? Most of those games are AAU ball, little more than glorified pick-up nonsense.

I tend to agree I don't care about AAU stats, but I promise we would all take notice if he were shooting 30%!

[NSDukeFan]

Who cares about that? Most of those games are AAU ball, little more than glorified pick-up nonsense.

Glorified pick-up nonsense is often the best we can do in these summer months between seasons. :) I would expect the U-18 championships would be a bit better basketball than AAU, but agree that it does not show how he would fare in college.

[lilblue]

Who cares about that? Most of those games are AAU ball, little more than glorified pick-up nonsense.

These games were very team oriented, definately not a AAU game. Were you there? I was and saw that Austin often broke down his man for three or was assisted for an open shot, in one game I believe he hit 9 straight threes before missing one, regardless 60% FG percentage is damn good in any game AAU or otherwise.

[Kedsy]

I said I had a good feeling and am excited about Rivers since "you don't remember and don't care enough to look it up."

And HB is HB you win some and you lose some plain and simple. Miles said he expects his brother to make a decision "reasonably soon this summer" and his coach has said the decision would probably come late July or early August. I think that bodes well for the two schools that have put an offer on the table, in Duke and UVA. Who has Duke recruited that they lost to UVA? How many years are you going back, because the last 15 years they have not lost a recruit to UVA.

I still don't care. But the fact is you were going off on someone who criticized someone else for saying: "I say Rivers is as good as commited [sic]. and Marshall Plumlee committing in the coming days. I think we'll also possibly add quin cook." You seemed bewildered that some posters try to downplay this sort of euphoric optimism regarding recruiting and I was trying to explain why it happens.

I've been following Duke since 1978, which is admittedly more than 15 years ago. I don't keep a diary of lost recruits, but we certainly lost recruits to UVa in the 80s and 90s, if not later. But I'm not sure why UVa is different from any other school for these purposes. We don't get every recruit we want, and if MP3 clicks with UVa more than he clicks with Duke then he'll go there. To me, that's what's "plain and simple."

[CPDUKEGUY24]

Bottom line is that all of it is speculation and we won't know until Rivers wants us too so all we can do now is read into what he says in interviews or his choice of clothing. Can someone tell me how Q Miller gets MVP of the U18 tourney and not Rivers? Maybe I missed something but I thought Rivers had a won

Im failing to understand you here ... Speculation from the horses' mouth? Does Austin now predict where he might go? Atleast, I guess its informed speculation! :D

[PADukeMom]

I will believe Austin is coming to Duke once he has sat down at a desk & opened up a book. Then I will believe. Until then, speculation is fun but useless however it did use up a good portion on my day today.:D

[sdotbarbee]

I still don't care. But the fact is you were going off on someone who criticized someone else for saying: "I say Rivers is as good as commited [sic]. and Marshall Plumlee committing in the coming days. I think we'll also possibly add quin cook." You seemed bewildered that some posters try to downplay this sort of euphoric optimism regarding recruiting and I was trying to explain why it happens.

I've been following Duke since 1978, which is admittedly more than 15 years ago. I don't keep a diary of lost recruits, but we certainly lost recruits to UVa in the 80s and 90s, if not later. But I'm not sure why UVa is different from any other school for these purposes. We don't get every recruit we want, and if MP3 clicks with UVa more than he clicks with Duke then he'll go there. To me, that's what's "plain and simple."

I don't think I "went off" on anybody, I just simply stated that some people on this board are very pessimistic and when someone gets excited about Rivers' or another recruit wearing Duke gear or something there is always someone to bring them down. We might have lost some recruits in the 80's and maybe early 90's but the recruiting game has changed since then. Duke and UVA don't recruit the same caliber of high school talent. Now that is not saying that some UVA recruits don't turn out better then some Duke recruits but coming out of high school Duke gets 4 and 5 star recruits and UVA gets 3 star recruits with a 4 star thrown in here and there. What's the last Burger boy that went and played for the Cavaliers? We just recruit different talent. There will be a Plumlee decision soon and I expect it to be Duke, with that said I would rather get Cody Zeller or Amir Williams.

[Bob Green]

And in Austin related news - he's actually playing ball this summer. Let's see if we can appreciate that.

He shoot 60% in U18 games from three. I'm still trying to comprehend that. Worry about the rest later - PLEASE.


Who cares about that? Most of those games are AAU ball, little more than glorified pick-up nonsense.

Duvall, I'm going to have to disagree with you here. The U18 FIBA Americas Championship in San Antonio is completely different from AAU games. The FIBA competition is organized team oriented games against international competition. The USA team was coached by college coaches Jeff Capel, Paul Hewitt, and Reggie Witherspoon. These competitions are excellent opportunities for the young players involved and the statistics from the games are legitimate discussion points.

[should_be_working]

New blog from Austin:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/getting-up/2010/07/austin-rivers-diary-lebron-mania-and-one-and-one/

[CDu]

I don't think I "went off" on anybody, I just simply stated that some people on this board are very pessimistic and when someone gets excited about Rivers' or another recruit wearing Duke gear or something there is always someone to bring them down. We might have lost some recruits in the 80's and maybe early 90's but the recruiting game has changed since then. Duke and UVA don't recruit the same caliber of high school talent. Now that is not saying that some UVA recruits don't turn out better then some Duke recruits but coming out of high school Duke gets 4 and 5 star recruits and UVA gets 3 star recruits with a 4 star thrown in here and there. What's the last Burger boy that went and played for the Cavaliers? We just recruit different talent. There will be a Plumlee decision soon and I expect it to be Duke, with that said I would rather get Cody Zeller or Amir Williams.

I don't think folks are jumping on people for getting excited about a recruit wearing Duke gear. I think folks are jumping on people for jumping to the conclusion that it's a done deal simply because a guy wears Duke gear. There's a big distinction between the two.

I don't think it's pessimistic to say that Rivers isn't all but committed. I think it's realistic. You can even still be optimistic and not saying it's not certain we get Rivers. Don't count your chickens before they hatch is all I ask.

I'm very excited that we have a good shot at Rivers. But we don't have a commitment from him. And until we do, I think it's presumptuous to say he's basically committed to Duke.

[Faison1]

New blog from Austin:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/getting-up/2010/07/austin-rivers-diary-lebron-mania-and-one-and-one/

Wow! I'm not sure what to say after reading that.....

[CDu]

New blog from Austin:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/getting-up/2010/07/austin-rivers-diary-lebron-mania-and-one-and-one/

So it doesn't look like it'll be any day now...

[NSDukeFan]

New blog from Austin:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/getting-up/2010/07/austin-rivers-diary-lebron-mania-and-one-and-one/


Obviously, that means I won’t be deciding in August like I said before. Sorry about that, guys. I just want to make this the best decision for me and having gone through this once already I have to KNOW it’s the right thing for me. I don’t want any fans to read into this any kind of way. Nothing has changed with me other than time.
Interesting that his time line has changed, which of course is not good for the presumed leader for his services, but is probably the best decision for him. It can't be a bad decision on his part to check out some schools and have the red carpet rolled out for him. I, of course, hope he keeps Duke as his favorite and signs to play for coach K whenever he chooses.

[scottdude8]

Wow! I'm not sure what to say after reading that.....

I know what to say after reading that—this situation is starting to look dangerously that of a certain unnamed recruit from last season. Considering friends who belong to premium sites have assured me for months that Austin will come to Duke I'm still holding out hope, but the longer this takes the worse I'll feel. This is just another reason why I've decided not to waste my money on premium sites: you really don't know anything until there is a commitment (and sometimes not even really then), haha.

[Faison1]

So it doesn't look like it'll be any day now...

Bummer.....my kingdom for an easy recruitment!

[airowe]

Bummer.....my kingdom for an easy recruitment!

We now have time to make this the longest recruiting thread ever on DBR.

I wouldn't get too worked up over this...

[sdotbarbee]

New blog from Austin:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/getting-up/2010/07/austin-rivers-diary-lebron-mania-and-one-and-one/

I really was hoping for a commitment in August, but I guess he listened to Doc and decided to take his visits which is good for him. He really needs to enjoy the experience, just enjoy the experience more while at Duke.:D

[MisterRoddy]

New blog from Austin:

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/getting-up/2010/07/austin-rivers-diary-lebron-mania-and-one-and-one/

Alright, everyone needs to chill out, we are still the leaders and I'm guessing the reason for the change in announcement times is that his dad got more involved after the Finals.

If he does stick to the new timeline (which I really wouldn't trust), he will have seen KI and Duke pretty much dominate non-conference opponents and see our new run and gun style of offense, which will hopefully seal the deal.

[uh_no]

does this mean the 'pessimists' are vindicated?

[sdotbarbee]

We now have time to make this the longest recruiting thread ever on DBR.

I wouldn't get too worked up over this...

The only coach he name dropped was coach K, I agree we should not get worked up the kid committed too early to UF now he wants to take his time and be sure.

[NSDukeFan]

does this mean the 'pessimists' are vindicated?

No, the 2010 title still belongs to the Duke Blue Devils.

[uh_no]

The only coach he name dropped was coach K, I agree we should not get worked up the kid committed too early to UF now he wants to take his time and be sure.

and the only NBA player name he dropped was Jordan......

[airowe]

He won't know much more about the players that he will be playing with in December than he will in August.

Freak out if you want to, but I'm not.

[sdotbarbee]

and the only NBA player name he dropped was Jordan......

You are the "glass half empty" kind of guy where I am the "glass half full" kind of guy. Life is happier when you look at it the way I do.:D

[Kedsy]

and the only NBA player name he dropped was Jordan......

Not true. He mentioned Doc twice.

[G man]

I enjoyed reading his stuff. He seems to be in a good frame of mind for a young man. He is conducting himself just like all recruits should. Take a look around figure out what is best for themselves and run with it. I have no problem with anything he said. All that in mind I will be very disappointed if he goes somewhere else.