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baby-face dawkins
05-10-2010, 03:43 PM
From the way I read it, I thought he was saying that she was going to try to just go to a school in the same area.

Yeah that's what I took from it as well. That being said, just the fact that mentioned his girlfriend moving with him, to me says that her opinion is one that he will listen to

left_hook_lacey
05-10-2010, 03:53 PM
That's exactly what he said.

Yeah, I missed that part. I just re-read it and he says she's going to go to a school "down there" if he goes to Duke. He's in Florida, so I assume he meant "up there" but whatever, he can call it whatever he wants so long as he's on campus next year. :D

SupaDave
05-10-2010, 04:40 PM
Yeah that's what I took from it as well. That being said, just the fact that mentioned his girlfriend moving with him, to me says that her opinion is one that he will listen to

Just remember that the triangle has PLENTY of options for a young lady to continue her education. The Triangle alone has about 10 colleges. Throw in the Triad (Greensboro, Winston, High Point) and it's literally spilling over with education possibilities.

SilkyJ
05-10-2010, 04:46 PM
Just remember that the triangle has PLENTY of options for a young lady to continue her education. The Triangle alone has about 10 colleges. Throw in the Triad (Greensboro, Winston, High Point) and it's literally spilling over with education possibilities.

Dear Supadave,

This is a recruiting thread. Please don't convolute our ScreamingHowlerPanickMonkey mindset with logic and reason.

Cease and desist immediately.

Yours truly,
SilkyJ, ESQ.

Osiagledknarf
05-10-2010, 10:56 PM
With all these articles and stuff looking like "pro duke"... just remember stuff like this http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article16329.aspx... and this http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-duke/

airowe
05-10-2010, 11:15 PM
With all these articles and stuff looking like "pro duke"... just remember stuff like this http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article16329.aspx... and this http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-duke/

I could post twenty Kyrie Irving article links and prove the exact opposite point. Or Carrick Felix articles. Or Michael Gbinije articles. Or Tyler Adams articles. You get the point.

SupaDave
05-10-2010, 11:27 PM
With all these articles and stuff looking like "pro duke"... just remember stuff like this http://www.tarheeltimes.com/article16329.aspx... and this http://www.highschoolhoop.com/recruiting-news/2009/10/the-harrison-barnes-diary-official-visit-to-duke/

Actually I'm glad you posted this b/c it did occur to me today. However, upon reading them I'm glad we experienced Harrison. Harrison Barnes DOES like Duke. This you guys MUST get through your heads. You will NEVER hear him say a bad word. But if you read this again, he does give small hints and it's the same ones we dismissed from UNC fans at that - like the "other" side of Carolina.

But it's always the one thing that sticks out to a recruit - the x-factor. For Barnes it was Jordan. I get it - and I accept it. I got my first Jordans a half-size too big so I wouldn't have to get Sky Jordans (remember those?). A singular entity for a singular mind with singular goals. Some of it even sounds like he's scouting the Duke team more than putting himself IN the practice. He's definitely very "on to the next one" about it.

But ahhh, Austin. If I'm at liberty too embellish. He's a different animal. He's thoughtful. There's something there. He talked to his coach. He asked how his AAU coach felt. He inquired with his girlfriend. He inquired with his dad. I'm sure he's talked to his brother. He took his AAU coach to campus. He's a FAMILY guy. He actually took something away from his conversations with the players. He wants that National Championship. And just like Harrison fits the mold of typical UNC stud - so does Austin fit Duke.

Harrison might have said we - but he never said family...

But hey - Roy Williams can always pull a Pat Riley and retire Doc Rivers number...

Anyway, it's late and the Magic just hit 17,000 threes on the Hawks. I'm calling it a night.

Stray Gator
05-11-2010, 12:13 AM
... Harrison Barnes DOES like Duke. This you guys MUST get through your heads. You will NEVER hear him say a bad word. ....

Ordinarily, I wouldn't waste any more bandwidth on Barnes here, but I have to take issue with your statement. Here's an excerpt from the ESPN article published after Barnes committed to UNC:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4900463

Barnes enjoyed the recruiting process. Despite hundreds of letters and phone calls, he remained thorough and organized.

By the end, Barnes said his decision to go to North Carolina was obvious.

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

Based on my understanding of the impression that Barnes conveyed to Coach K and how he acted towards the Duke program throughout his recruitment, I find it difficult to consider the quoted statement from Barnes as anything other than a deliberate snipe at Duke. I've seen Duke and Carolina vying closely for the same recruits over the years, with each school winning some of those battles and losing others. But of all the players who were courted by and showed an interest in both schools, I don't recall any other who went out of his way to insult that school and coach by declaring that they weren't even considered a legitimate alternative.

moonpie23
05-11-2010, 12:34 AM
Ordinarily, I wouldn't waste any more bandwidth on Barnes here, but I have to take issue with your statement. Here's an excerpt from the ESPN article published after Barnes committed to UNC:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4900463

Barnes enjoyed the recruiting process. Despite hundreds of letters and phone calls, he remained thorough and organized.

By the end, Barnes said his decision to go to North Carolina was obvious.

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

Based on my understanding of the impression that Barnes conveyed to Coach K and how he acted towards the Duke program throughout his recruitment, I find it difficult to consider the quoted statement from Barnes as anything other than a deliberate snipe at Duke. I've seen Duke and Carolina vying closely for the same recruits over the years, with each school winning some of those battles and losing others. But of all the players who were courted by and showed an interest in both schools, I don't recall any other who went out of his way to insult that school and coach by declaring that they weren't even considered a legitimate alternative.

thanks Stray......i agree....in fact, i think it was a setup from the git go...

DukeSean
05-11-2010, 12:34 AM
Based on my understanding of the impression that Barnes conveyed to Coach K and how he acted towards the Duke program throughout his recruitment, I find it difficult to consider the quoted statement from Barnes as anything other than a deliberate snipe at Duke. I've seen Duke and Carolina vying closely for the same recruits over the years, with each school winning some of those battles and losing others. But of all the players who were courted by and showed an interest in both schools, I don't recall any other who went out of his way to insult that school and coach by declaring that they weren't even considered a legitimate alternative.

Agreed. When someone does everything during the recruiting process to make you think that you're firmly in the running (or even in the lead) and then later say there was no second choice speaks to his character.

Oh and Austin Rivers is awesome, just to keep this on topic :p

ElSid
05-11-2010, 01:26 AM
But ahhh, Austin. If I'm at liberty too embellish. He's a different animal. He's thoughtful. There's something there. He talked to his coach. He asked how his AAU coach felt. He inquired with his girlfriend. He inquired with his dad. I'm sure he's talked to his brother. He took his AAU coach to campus. He's a FAMILY guy. He actually took something away from his conversations with the players. He wants that National Championship. And just like Harrison fits the mold of typical UNC stud - so does Austin fit Duke.

Gotta think Austin, having grown up in the shadow of NBA players, wouldn't be so amazed by the site of Michael Jordan, too. Those Iowa kids will fall for any sort of trickery.

Austin seems to be a thinker. Mostly in that he seems to be shrewd about protecting and nurturing his tremendous NBA potential. Hope he sees that Duke is good for all of that and more.

oldnavy
05-11-2010, 06:34 AM
Actually I'm glad you posted this b/c it did occur to me today. However, upon reading them I'm glad we experienced Harrison. Harrison Barnes DOES like Duke. This you guys MUST get through your heads. You will NEVER hear him say a bad word. But if you read this again, he does give small hints and it's the same ones we dismissed from UNC fans at that - like the "other" side of Carolina.

But it's always the one thing that sticks out to a recruit - the x-factor. For Barnes it was Jordan. I get it - and I accept it. I got my first Jordans a half-size too big so I wouldn't have to get Sky Jordans (remember those?). A singular entity for a singular mind with singular goals. Some of it even sounds like he's scouting the Duke team more than putting himself IN the practice. He's definitely very "on to the next one" about it.

But ahhh, Austin. If I'm at liberty too embellish. He's a different animal. He's thoughtful. There's something there. He talked to his coach. He asked how his AAU coach felt. He inquired with his girlfriend. He inquired with his dad. I'm sure he's talked to his brother. He took his AAU coach to campus. He's a FAMILY guy. He actually took something away from his conversations with the players. He wants that National Championship. And just like Harrison fits the mold of typical UNC stud - so does Austin fit Duke.

Harrison might have said we - but he never said family...

But hey - Roy Williams can always pull a Pat Riley and retire Doc Rivers number...

Anyway, it's late and the Magic just hit 17,000 threes on the Hawks. I'm calling it a night.

I have to agree with you on this. Austin seems more mature in his ways. He does seem to have a solid plan on how to approach the process. He is getting people involved, even trying to convince his skeptical AAU coach that Duke is a great place, etc... It is hard not to be encouraged by all of this, but at the same time, I am cautiously optimistic....

airowe
05-11-2010, 07:53 AM
Agreed. When someone does everything during the recruiting process to make you think that you're firmly in the running (or even in the lead) and then later say there was no second choice speaks to his character.

Oh and Austin Rivers is awesome, just to keep this on topic :p

"Save #40 for me."

'Nuff said.

Indoor66
05-11-2010, 08:19 AM
It's possible that his delay in making a decision, or announcing a decision, is the result of his early commitment to FL in the exuberance of the moment of FL winning the national championship. He doesn't want to repeat a mistake. He wants to make a measured and carefully considered decision after doing his research, homework, visits and full consideration. Maybe a mature process?

left_hook_lacey
05-11-2010, 08:36 AM
Gotta think Austin, having grown up in the shadow of NBA players, wouldn't be so amazed by the site of Michael Jordan, too.

Not so sure about that. You could be right because he's still a kid, and if/when he ever ran into MJ, there's a chance he was too young to know who he really was.

But, that being said, I've heard many NBA players say they were star struck the first time they stepped on the court with Michael. Just sayin...

And to keep the topic going......Austin is probably one of the more complete players I've seen in while when you combine he's skill set, and his mind set. Great kid from what I can tell.

vango
05-11-2010, 09:26 AM
Ordinarily, I wouldn't waste any more bandwidth on Barnes here, but I have to take issue with your statement. Here's an excerpt from the ESPN article published after Barnes committed to UNC:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4900463

Barnes enjoyed the recruiting process. Despite hundreds of letters and phone calls, he remained thorough and organized.

By the end, Barnes said his decision to go to North Carolina was obvious.

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

Based on my understanding of the impression that Barnes conveyed to Coach K and how he acted towards the Duke program throughout his recruitment, I find it difficult to consider the quoted statement from Barnes as anything other than a deliberate snipe at Duke. I've seen Duke and Carolina vying closely for the same recruits over the years, with each school winning some of those battles and losing others. But of all the players who were courted by and showed an interest in both schools, I don't recall any other who went out of his way to insult that school and coach by declaring that they weren't even considered a legitimate alternative.


This is the first thing I thought of after I watched that video weeks ago. I just let it go as the Barnes story was over.

While I was disappointed he chose UNC I still admired the kid - and still do to an extent - but that comment was either a dumb thing to say by an adolescent or a slip on his part revealing something more calculating.

If the later, I'm left with:

1) either you lied and/or exagerated your interest during the recruitment

or

2) you're being grossly disingenous now.

Could be you changed your mind - but considering the facts I find such an extensive swing - doubtful.

Water under the bridge I guess.

All of that notwithstanding, I thought Kyrie's recruitment and committment much more important at the time and continue to believe same now. Inasmuch as I see River's recruitment of nearly the same importance. These are 3 great players and kids - to land 2 out of 3 would be nice.

AisanderD
05-11-2010, 09:45 AM
Let's just look at things from Harrison's eyes for a minute. If in an interview after he chooses UNC he purposefully downplays any interest he once had in Duke in order not to get ribbed and questioned by fans/players etc, I don't blame him. He's an 18 year old kid who had to choose between two highly competitive rivals, of course he's going to want to prove to his fanbase that's he's loyal. Whether he is being truthful or not about his recruitment is beside the point. We all know at one point he's a heavy Duke lean, and now to make up for that, he's doing his best to prove his loyalty.

CDu
05-11-2010, 09:49 AM
Let's just look at things from Harrison's eyes for a minute. If in an interview after he chooses UNC he purposefully downplays any interest he once had in Duke in order not to get ribbed and questioned by fans/players etc, I don't blame him. He's an 18 year old kid who had to choose between two highly competitive rivals, of course he's going to want to prove to his fanbase that's he's loyal. Whether he is being truthful or not about his recruitment is beside the point. We all know at one point he's a heavy Duke lean, and now to make up for that, he's doing his best to prove his loyalty.

Agreed. I think people are making way too big a deal about this comment. And I think it's quite unfair for people who know next to nothing other than a handful of quotes to be questioning/attacking his character.

wilko
05-11-2010, 10:12 AM
Let's just look at things from Harrison's eyes for a minute. If in an interview after he chooses UNC he purposefully downplays any interest he once had in Duke in order not to get ribbed and questioned by fans/players etc, I don't blame him. He's an 18 year old kid who had to choose between two highly competitive rivals, of course he's going to want to prove to his fanbase that's he's loyal. Whether he is being truthful or not about his recruitment is beside the point. We all know at one point he's a heavy Duke lean, and now to make up for that, he's doing his best to prove his loyalty.

Ehhhh
So hows that help me? I'm a fan because it brings me enjoyment. Part of that enjoyment right or wrong is tormenting my UNC friends.

So again, how does him going to UNC help me? Unless there is some scandal, dust-up or otherwise altercation, incident or donnybrook that casts him or UNC in a bad light how is that good for me?

It ain't helpful at all - so I'm not obliged to show him (or any other tar heel) any love amount of love what-so ever. I feel no guilt, remorse or shame about it.

Hes a big big boy... he knew the heat was coming when he did it. If he cant take the heat I'm sure Iowa State would accept a transfer.

SupaDave
05-11-2010, 10:31 AM
Ordinarily, I wouldn't waste any more bandwidth on Barnes here, but I have to take issue with your statement. Here's an excerpt from the ESPN article published after Barnes committed to UNC:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4900463

Barnes enjoyed the recruiting process. Despite hundreds of letters and phone calls, he remained thorough and organized.

By the end, Barnes said his decision to go to North Carolina was obvious.

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

Based on my understanding of the impression that Barnes conveyed to Coach K and how he acted towards the Duke program throughout his recruitment, I find it difficult to consider the quoted statement from Barnes as anything other than a deliberate snipe at Duke. I've seen Duke and Carolina vying closely for the same recruits over the years, with each school winning some of those battles and losing others. But of all the players who were courted by and showed an interest in both schools, I don't recall any other who went out of his way to insult that school and coach by declaring that they weren't even considered a legitimate alternative.

I agree with this Stray and I made sure I chose my words carefully. I said he LIKES Duke but I think it was a bit more about Coach K (and perhaps some posturing for the future). After the 100 year celebration, I didn't think he had a second choice either. Every thing after that screamed "NEXT!!!" The WAY he played his cards however is truly the disturbing part. Thusly - the singular mind with singular thoughts...

(I also agree with posters that think once he picked - he DID probably have to convince hisself that it was the best fit).

Those actions allow me to enjoy Austin's developments much much more...

SupaDave
05-11-2010, 10:47 AM
It's possible that his delay in making a decision, or announcing a decision, is the result of his early commitment to FL in the exuberance of the moment of FL winning the national championship. He doesn't want to repeat a mistake. He wants to make a measured and carefully considered decision after doing his research, homework, visits and full consideration. Maybe a mature process?

Very good point - he's been here before but he's a totally different kid now and it's obvious that he's taking a deeper look.

Stray Gator
05-11-2010, 11:00 AM
Agreed. I think people are making way too big a deal about this comment. And I think it's quite unfair for people who know next to nothing other than a handful of quotes to be questioning/attacking his character.

You're certainly entitled to your opinion--of Barnes, and of those among us who view him differently. I'm only commenting on Barnes' conduct and quotes now because some people here continue to defend him as a person of good character, even though he has indisputably demonstrated that he is dishonest. If Barnes was genuinely interested in Duke as a potential choice during his recruitment, then when he made statements after his commitment to UNC that were clearly intended to convey the point that there was no other school he seriously considered, he was lying with words. If he was not genuinely interested in Duke as a potential choice during his recruitment, then he was practicing a deception that was nothing less than lying through behavior. Other than a person's words and behavior, what basis do we have to evaluate his character?

Regarding the speculation that Barnes really was a "Duke lean" at one time but merely wanted to "show the love" for Carolina after his commitment by publicly dissing Duke, I think that conduct also speaks volumes about his character by showing that he is either immature or a phony--in either case, behavior that is irreconcilable with the public image he has endeavored to fabricate. As I mentioned in a prior post, when past recruiting wars between UNC and Duke have ended in favor of one school, do you recall any other recruit--on either side--who ever found it appropriate to deliberately insult the other program?

I don't harbor any resentment towards Barnes for choosing UNC instead of Duke. I've been at this long enough to recognize that we win some and we lose some, and the ups and downs all pretty much balance out in the long run. And I've also been around long enough to learn that things generally seem to work out for the best, even if it's not apparent at the time. But based on his words and behavior, by which he has intentionally and publicly exhibited disrespect towards Duke and Coach K, I certainly don't believe Barnes deserves any respect from us for being anything other than a physically talented opponent--and, perhaps, a clever actor.

airowe
05-11-2010, 11:04 AM
I don't know how many of you plan to attend the TOC, but Austin will be playing in the tournament May 28th-30th. There will be other Duke recruits playing as well, and we'll know more as it gets closer to the date.

SupaDave
05-11-2010, 11:20 AM
I don't know how many of you plan to attend the TOC, but Austin will be playing in the tournament May 28th-30th. There will be other Duke recruits playing as well, and we'll know more as it gets closer to the date.

I'll be there! My baby cousin's AAU team will be up from Houston...

BD80
05-11-2010, 11:26 AM
HB stoked the media flames. He enjoyed the limelight. If he now "pays the price" for his words, it is of his own doing.

Disingenuous is the right word. HB is a smart kid, but like most kids his age, not as smart as he thinks he is. He enjoyed being courted by the best coach in basketball, and wanted to a part of the Duke experience as much as possible, to the point of surprising Coach K with a visit. It turns out he was always headed to the hill, he later admitted that there was no second place finisher, so his flirtation with Duke can be termed a dalliance.

Who really cares? He will be a tarheel, so is deserving our disdain.

There have been a few tarheels I have admired as student athletes, HB won't be one of them.

flyingdutchdevil
05-11-2010, 11:32 AM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are still bitter about the one that got away...

Biscuit King
05-11-2010, 11:37 AM
Agreed. I was happy we didn't get John Wall. I was not so thrilled to see us lose out on Barnes. I suspect I'm not the only one.

roywhite
05-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are still bitter about the one that got away...

Speak for yourself.

He was disingenuous, and that's a kind description.

I won't go out of my way to attack him, but he made his choice and not in a very admirable fashion. I'm fine with the way things have worked out.

airowe
05-11-2010, 11:38 AM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are still bitter about the one that got away...

If Barnes had come to Duke, his request of the Duke staff to "Save #40 for me" wouldn't be disingenuous.

As to your second point, do you see the same hand-wringing for Leslie McDonald or Brandan Wright? No. So, maybe the situation isn't as simple as you'd like to portray it.

SupaDave
05-11-2010, 11:40 AM
If Barnes had come to Duke, his request of the Duke staff to save #40 for me wouldn't be disingenuous.

As to your second point, do you see the same hand-wringing for Leslie McDonald or Brandan Wright? No. So, maybe the situation isn't as simple as you'd like to portray it.

The board got over Leslie in LITERALLY one day...
http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9679&highlight=leslie

Most didn't even know we were recruiting Wright.

ncexnyc
05-11-2010, 11:42 AM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are still bitter about the one that got away...

Well said. If anyone doubts what you're saying all they have to do is look at the John Wall thread from last year. After the kid selected KY there were all kind of silly posts. I'm sure you'll find similar nonsense on the Patrick Patterson and Greg Monroe threads as well. These recruiting threads that don't end in our favor turnout about as well as the kids transfering threads.

Underdog5
05-11-2010, 11:43 AM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

While I completely disagree with the argument, I think the folks making this point would say no. I think the accusation stems from the fact that he went through the recruitment process with Duke but seemed to indicate after his commitment to UNC that there was NO second choice.

I disagree with this assertion. I think during the recruiting process, a kid should visit and speak to as many schools as he can no matter how certain he is about where he want to go. Especially if that school includes Duke... I mean why wouldn't you listen to the sales pitch from K and crew and how could u and not at all be engaged by it?

I know I certainly kept visiting schools and speaking to admissions officers after I got my admissions letter from Duke as it all helped to drive home my certainty about my ultimate choice.

Finally, is Austin disingenuous for verbaling committing to Florida and then going to Duke for a visit or just a good kid changes his mind?

gumbomoop
05-11-2010, 11:51 AM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are still bitter about the one that got away...

I'll hope to enter and then exit this thread too quickly to be hit by friendly fire.

- "still bitter" - True for me, at least a little. Apparently not as bitter as is KI, however, who has been quoted as saying, "He was supposed to come to Duke." KI is disappointed in HB, somewhat hurt by his "big brother's"...... well....., disingenuousness.

So, my answer to your question - "Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him 'disingenuous'?" - is, "Had HB come to Duke, he wouldn't have been disingenuous."

I'll take part of it back, by admitting that "disingenuous" is a hard word, and maybe we should cut some slack to an 18-year-old. But I hesitate to let HB - as image-conscious a teenager one is likely to see these days - totally off the hook.

ElSid
05-11-2010, 11:51 AM
I'm fine with the way things have worked out.

Agree. Just want to go ahead and beat the Heels senseless in a couple/few match ups next season. Hope Barnes has an OK run and the Heels have modest success while Duke romps and shows him what could have been. Would like to see Singler pull some cagey veteran moves on him and triumph in that individual match up. Sounds nice.

But Barnes might be good enough to make us all squirm a bit. That's what's so irritating.

If Barnes did have a grand plan to get Duke's hopes up only to dismiss any interest in anything other than little boy blue, well, he has to feel really stupid right now, and that's enough for me. Don't need to speculate on whether he's a disingenuous, bad person. It's actually kind of funny, in a way, except that it backfired on him, so we get the last laugh for now. So why not enjoy it?

I hope Austin comes to Duke. I hope Kyrie stays at least two years. I hope Harry stays at UNC two years so he can experience, should it come to be, an Irving/Rivers/Curry/Dawkins/Felix/Gbinije/Adams/Plumlee/Kelly onslaught. Would be great for the rivalry.

flyingdutchdevil
05-11-2010, 11:52 AM
While I completely disagree with the argument, I think the folks making this point would say no. I think the accusation stems from the fact that he went through the recruitment process with Duke but seemed to indicate after his commitment to UNC that there was NO second choice.

I disagree with this assertion. I think during the recruiting process, a kid should visit and speak to as many schools as he can no matter how certain he is about where he want to go. Especially if that school includes Duke... I mean why wouldn't you listen to the sales pitch from K and crew and how could u and not at all be engaged by it?

I know I certainly kept visiting schools and speaking to admissions officers after I got my admissions letter from Duke as it all helped to drive home my certainty about my ultimate choice.

Finally, is Austin disingenuous for verbaling committing to Florida and then going to Duke for a visit or just a good kid changes his mind?

Firstly, the point I was trying to make is that we are still bitter about HB not coming to Duke and a lot of posters, including myself, like to make HB seem like a worse person than he actually is.

Secondly, I completely understand why HB would say that about there being no second chance. Imagine if Kyrie had said "Kentucky was a really close second to Duke." None of us know if this is true or not, but I would much rather have Kyrie say "It was Duke all the way. There was no number 2." It shows commitment and really expresses to the fans that a recruit wants to play there. Had HB said "I was really close to committing to Duke," I'm sure there would have been some upset UNC fans out there.

Thirdly, I have no idea why you brought up Austin Rivers. I never said that HB, or any other recruit, was disingenuous. My take on Rivers, he committed when he was a freshman, realized he was too young, decommitted, and opened up his recruitment again.

flyingdutchdevil
05-11-2010, 11:56 AM
Speak for yourself.

He was disingenuous, and that's a kind description.

I won't go out of my way to attack him, but he made his choice and not in a very admirable fashion. I'm fine with the way things have worked out.

I'm also fine with the way that things have turned out.

But answer this: do you think that a) people are still bitter about HB and b) that they are harsher to him because of this bitterness?

roywhite
05-11-2010, 12:03 PM
I'm also fine with the way that things have turned out.

But answer this: do you think that a) people are still bitter about HB and b) that they are harsher to him because of this bitterness?

Bitter, no. Duke has done fine by winning a national championship and assembling an excellent team for next year.

Will people be harsher to him than, say, to an average TarHeel? yes. I look at him as a Prima donna and I hope he has a miserable experience playing against Duke.

Just adds some extra spice to a rivalry that has plenty of spice already.

Underdog5
05-11-2010, 12:12 PM
[QUOTE=Underdog5;407499][QUOTE=flyingdutchdevil;407489]Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Firstly, the point I was trying to make is that we are still bitter about HB not coming to Duke and a lot of posters, including myself, like to make HB seem like a worse person than he actually is.

Secondly, I completely understand why HB would say that about there being no second chance. Imagine if Kyrie had said "Kentucky was a really close second to Duke." None of us know if this is true or not, but I would much rather have Kyrie say "It was Duke all the way. There was no number 2." It shows commitment and really expresses to the fans that a recruit wants to play there. Had HB said "I was really close to committing to Duke," I'm sure there would have been some upset UNC fans out there.

Thirdly, I have no idea why you brought up Austin Rivers. I never said that HB, or any other recruit, was disingenuous. My take on Rivers, he committed when he was a freshman, realized he was too young, decommitted, and opened up his recruitment again.

Despite the first paragraph explaining why OTHERS are calling HB disingenuous, I was kind of agreeing with you. I made the point about Austin at the end as an additional argument to OTHERS as to why fans shouldn't be so critical of HB (and because this is an Austin Rivers thread). I think you got boiling because of the first paragraph and missed the tone of the rest of my post. My bad.

flyingdutchdevil
05-11-2010, 12:12 PM
Bitter, no. Duke has done fine by winning a national championship and assembling an excellent team for next year.

Will people be harsher to him than, say, to an average TarHeel? yes. I look at him as a Prima donna and I hope he has a miserable experience playing against Duke.

Just adds some extra spice to a rivalry that has plenty of spice already.

I don't understand why people think he is disingenuous or a prima donna? Because of the tacky skype announcement? He wanted to do something unique. How is that different from a televised press conference? They ALL want their 15 minutes of fame.

While we're on the subject, how about Kyrie's videos at the McDonald's AA game? Is that not attention-seeking? And Kyrie blowing off Bullock in one part of the video can be easily construed as rude (and, for the record, I don't think Kyrie is rude. I think he's an 18 year old kid).

Do people not realize that these are 18 year old kids? I did a lot of stupid stuff when I was 18, and I'm pretty sure that I wasn't labeled a prima donna.

For the record, I don't like HB (because he is a Tarheel and, yes, I am bitter that we didn't join our side), but I respect him as a student-athlete who has expressed a desire to study. And that's a rare trait to say about a recruit as high-profiled as HB.

brlftz
05-11-2010, 12:14 PM
you seem very gesticulated about this, roywhite

BD80
05-11-2010, 12:17 PM
Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

Whether we want to admit it or not, we are still bitter about the one that got away...

Admitted bitterness.

We would have used different words for disingenuous, "clever" perhaps. We would have snickered about him leading ol' roy along if the roles were reversed. But we would have acknowledged his actions were below what we expect from Duke players and would have looked at his "body of work." We have had beloved players that have had lapses in judgement, but over their careers have earned respect. Unfortunately, those that stay briefly have less time to overcome mistakes. Maggette is a case in point. McRoberts is another example. I doubt HB would stay long enough to be respected.

He will be at unc long enough to be disliked.

left_hook_lacey
05-11-2010, 12:22 PM
[QUOTE=flyingdutchdevil;407489]Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"[QUOTE]

Finally, is Austin disingenuous for verbaling committing to Florida and then going to Duke for a visit or just a good kid changes his mind?

This is an excellent point. I mean we're all singing the praises of Austin right now, and deservedly so, but we were also singing the praises of Barnes much to the same tune at one time.

Austin decommitted from Florida after a long courtship and what appears to be a very close relationship with Billy Donovan. I'm sure there are some Florida fans out there that would consider Austin to be "disingenuous" right now.

What if Harrison Barnes had verbally committed to Duke, and THEN decommitted to announce he was going to Chapel Hill? He would be even more loathed than he is right now.

roywhite
05-11-2010, 12:24 PM
you seem very gesticulated about this, roywhite

Yes, indeed. If you could see me on the skype picture phone, you'd know just how gesticulated I can get. :)

Fortunately, I'll soon be relieved with Rivers of happiness.

Class of '94
05-11-2010, 12:25 PM
We have Kyrie and HB is going to UNC. Am I still bitter HB chose UNC over Duke? Of course, I am! He should have been a Duke guy. And despite what some have said, I think he's just as much a player in the Duke mold as he is with Carolina; and for me, that's what hurts and burns me the most. But saying that, I want players that are committed and want to come to Duke. In the end, HB wasn't that player.

I honestly don't think he purposely deceived anyone and I think things changed for him and us, unfortunately, when he went to that 100 year celebration and he bought into the some of the things Roy was selling. IMO, I think Roy negatively recruited against Duke and HB believed some of that (i.e., Duke will not win another NC under Coach K again, etc.) in addition to the Jordan x-factor. It's over now and HB has made his bed and he has to lie in it. And honestly, I think there is and will be a part of him that regrets not going to Duke to be coached by Coach K. And If you think he was being disingenious about Duke, check again. When they interviewed him prior to the first UNC-Duke game at Chapel Hill, he was complimentary about both teams; and when "Butt-head" Bullock made those disrespectful "jokes" about Duke players and Coach K, HB told him to shut up. I think HB is going to experience a lot of losses to us and that alone I would hope will remind him of what could have been if he had made another decision.

I'm excited about Austin because he has generally shown a strong love for Duke, the players and Coach K that HB never really showed. There just aren't as many word plays and gamesmanship, IMO, with Austin as there was with HB. But the bottom line is that I want players that want to be here; and if Austin ends up going somewhere else (hopefully not Tarhole Nation), then so be it....We'll go out and find players that do want to be here; and the Duke championship bus will keep on moving down the road.

Kedsy
05-11-2010, 12:26 PM
You're certainly entitled to your opinion--of Barnes, and of those among us who view him differently. I'm only commenting on Barnes' conduct and quotes now because some people here continue to defend him as a person of good character, even though he has indisputably demonstrated that he is dishonest. If Barnes was genuinely interested in Duke as a potential choice during his recruitment, then when he made statements after his commitment to UNC that were clearly intended to convey the point that there was no other school he seriously considered, he was lying with words. If he was not genuinely interested in Duke as a potential choice during his recruitment, then he was practicing a deception that was nothing less than lying through behavior. Other than a person's words and behavior, what basis do we have to evaluate his character?


I haven't studied the HB timeline in detail, but my recollection is Roy didn't get serious until fairly late in the game -- certainly after the surprise visit for K's birthday, etc., etc. Is it not possible that he'd always dreamed of himself in ugly blue, but since UNC wasn't going after him very hard he honestly was a Duke lean at the time he acted like he was? But once his dream school put on the full court press, that was the end of it and at that point there really was no second choice? I don't think you have enough evidence to evaluate his character, nor do I understand why you are wasting your time trying to do so.

If Austin chooses Duke, I'm sure Florida people will be bitter, but it could be much the same sort of thing. Once he realized what he would have at Duke, Florida couldn't compete. If he doesn't come to Duke, I'm sure many people on these boards will dredge up this diary entry and spend way too much time unfairly dissecting his character. Hopefully it won't come to that.

flyingdutchdevil
05-11-2010, 12:32 PM
We have Kyrie and HB is going to UNC. Am I still bitter HB chose UNC over Duke? Of course, I am! He should have been a Duke guy. And despite what some have said, I think he's just as much a player in the Duke mold as he is with Carolina; and for me, that's what hurts and burns me the most. But saying that, I want players that are committed and want to come to Duke. In the end, HB wasn't that player.

I honestly don't think he purposely deceived anyone and I think things changed for him and us, unfortunately, when he went to that 100 year celebration and he bought into the some of the things Roy was selling. IMO, I think Roy negatively recruited against Duke and HB believed some of that (i.e., Duke will not win another NC under Coach K again, etc.) in addition to the Jordan x-factor. It's over now and HB has made his bed and he has to lie in it. And honestly, I think there is and will be a part of him that regrets not going to Duke to be coached by Coach K. And If you think he was being disingenious about Duke, check again. When they interviewed him prior to the first UNC-Duke game at Chapel Hill, he was complimentary about both teams; and when "Butt-head" Bullock made those disrespectful "jokes" about Duke players and Coach K, HB told him to shut up. I think HB is going to experience a lot of losses to us and that alone I would hope will remind him of what could have been if he had made another decision.

I'm excited about Austin because he has generally shown a strong love for Duke, the players and Coach K that HB never really showed. There just aren't as many word plays and gamesmanship, IMO, with Austin as there was with HB. But the bottom line is that I want players that want to be here; and if Austin ends up going somewhere else (hopefully not Tarhole Nation), then so be it....We'll go out and find players that do want to be here; and the Duke championship bus will keep on moving down the road.

Hands down the best post on this subject. Great job. Agree with nearly everything, especially the part about the videos.

How can you tell that people are bitter about HB? Bullock publicly insults Duke and the hatred towards HB on DBR is much greater.

SupaDave
05-11-2010, 12:33 PM
I haven't studied the HB timeline in detail, but my recollection is Roy didn't get serious until fairly late in the game -- certainly after the surprise visit for K's birthday, etc., etc. Is it not possible that he'd always dreamed of himself in ugly blue, but since UNC wasn't going after him very hard he honestly was a Duke lean at the time he acted like he was? But once his dream school put on the full court press, that was the end of it and at that point there really was no second choice? I don't think you have enough evidence to evaluate his character, nor do I understand why you are wasting your time trying to do so.

This actually sounds like what is currently going on with the Jack kid who had all but packed his bags to go to prep school. NOW he is scheduling visits to UK and UNC. I REALLY like the fact that UK and UNC have to do some LATE head to head recruiting.

Billy Dat
05-11-2010, 12:39 PM
Gotta think Austin, having grown up in the shadow of NBA players, wouldn't be so amazed by the site of Michael Jordan, too.

Take it from a tortured Knick fan, if Austin has any knowledge of his father's career, he should abhor MJ. I refer to the '93 playoffs when, after going up 2-0, the Knicks dropped 4 straight to the hated Bulls who went on to vanquish the Suns. That glorious Knicks squad won 60 games. Doc was our PG and a real leader. Austin, never forget, MJ thwarted your Dad's best chance at a title. Never forget!!!!!!!!

Classof06
05-11-2010, 12:57 PM
Any bitterness I had about Harrison Barnes ended on April 5th. Let it go, people..

CoBlueDevil
05-11-2010, 01:13 PM
Any bitterness I had about Harrison Barnes ended on April 5th. Let it go, people..

Agreed! He has been mentioned now for far too long.

soccerstud2210
05-11-2010, 01:29 PM
wait..... who is this Harrison Barnes that everyone is speaking of?

I thought this was a thread to discuss Austin Rivers and whether he is coming to Duke or not??

:)

ReformedAggie
05-11-2010, 01:31 PM
Simple for me, Barnes proved he wasn't a Duke caliber person by choosing UNC.

Stray Gator
05-11-2010, 01:31 PM
... I don't think you have enough evidence to evaluate his character, nor do I understand why you are wasting your time trying to do so.

I thought I had made this clear: The reason I am posting on this subject is because I disagree with the opinions expressed by those who keep resurrecting the issue to reaffirm their admiration for Barnes or make excuses for his behavior. In this case, it was a poster who said: "Harrison Barnes DOES like Duke. This you guys MUST get through your heads. You will NEVER hear him say a bad word."

While I'm not hanging around here looking for opportunities to attack Barnes, I'm not going to leave a statement like that unchallenged, because I believe it is inaccurate. So I posted to offer a different interpretation of the evidence that I believe refutes, or at least undermines, the notion that Harrison Barnes is really a person of laudable character, as he professes and portrays himself to be. You may consider that a waste of time; I consider it participating in a dialogue to challenge what think are misconceptions being advanced by posters who insist that my opinion is unfounded.

Those who disagree with my interpretation of Barnes' behavior and my skepticism about his "good character" think I am "bitter"; I think those who still buy his act are gullible. I suppose we'll have the opportunity to observe Barnes for the next year or two, so we'll see how it plays out.


If Austin chooses Duke, I'm sure Florida people will be bitter, but it could be much the same sort of thing. Once he realized what he would have at Duke, Florida couldn't compete. If he doesn't come to Duke, I'm sure many people on these boards will dredge up this diary entry and spend way too much time unfairly dissecting his character. Hopefully it won't come to that.

Just for the record, I don't think you'll find any negative comments by me directed at any prior recruit who chose another school. As I said before, I don't have a problem with Barnes or any other recruit choosing a different school. I do have a problem with a recruit who leads a school to believe that he likes and respects the program and then, after choosing another school, takes a gratuitous parting shot to make a point of publicly disparaging and insulting people who had done nothing to deserve such treatment.

soccerstud2210
05-11-2010, 01:37 PM
Just for the record, I don't think you'll find any negative comments by me directed at any prior recruit who chose another school. As I said before, I don't have a problem with Barnes or any other recruit choosing a different school. I do have a problem with a recruit who leads a school to believe that he likes and respects the program and then, after choosing another school, takes a gratuitous parting shot to make a point of publicly disparaging and insulting people who had done nothing to deserve such treatment.

game. set. match. this is the point that i think most people that are disgusted or say he was disingenuous are trying to make

G man
05-11-2010, 02:11 PM
Anyone who chooses Duke is above all condemnation. Anyone who chooses someone other than Duke is either dumb, arrogant, and we really did not want him any way. It is this way with any programs fan base even ours. I thank the good Lord that Duke fans are not as bad as say Kentucky or UNC.

DukeGirl4ever
05-11-2010, 02:22 PM
[QUOTE=Underdog5;407499][QUOTE=flyingdutchdevil;407489]Imagine if Kyrie had said "Kentucky was a really close second to Duke." None of us know if this is true or not, but I would much rather have Kyrie say "It was Duke all the way. There was no number 2." It shows commitment and really expresses to the fans that a recruit wants to play there. Had HB said "I was really close to committing to Duke," I'm sure there would have been some upset UNC fans out there.


If Kyrie had said "Kentucky was a close second" I could honestly say I could care less! He chose Duke, it's that simple - 2nd place doesn't matter and so the discussion of it is useless. And what's wrong with a kid being honest and stating how difficult a decision it was to choose a school? Sure the kid (say HB) might get heckled by his own fan base by saying "Duke was a close 2nd to UNC," but who cares? He should be worried about what HE thinks as well as his family and future teammates.

That being said, being a Duke fan and reading about Barnes, I'm glad he decided to go to UNC - I think he'll fit in well there.

Stray Gator
05-11-2010, 02:25 PM
Anyone who chooses Duke is above all condemnation. Anyone who chooses someone other than Duke is either dumb, arrogant, and we really did not want him any way. It is this way with any programs fan base even ours. I thank the good Lord that Duke fans are not as bad as say Kentucky or UNC.

Show me a recruit who chose Duke and then promptly took a deliberate cheap shot at another school that had established what appeared to be a good relationship with that recruit, and I'll condemn that recruit's behavior, too. I've made that point three times now, and I'm still waiting for someone to name a Duke player who was guilty of such behavior.

DukeBlueNV
05-11-2010, 02:41 PM
can we just eliminate HB as a subject of conversation allready? i'd take singler as a senior then HB as a freshman 100 times out of 100. where would he fit on this team anyways? im not saying he wouldnt play, obviously a talent like him would be on the floor but i think we have to consider the possiblilty of chemistry issues if he had committed to duke. he would also inhibit the maturation of players like dawkins and ryan kelly from seeing the floor hindering the development of key players for dukes future, there is also the possiblilty that his commitment would have had a underhanded affect on singlers decision to return. the last thing i would want is for some hot-shot freshman pushing maybe an ALL-TIME great duke player out the door. Lets put the matter to rest because i think (hopefully everyone agrees) this all was for the better.

left_hook_lacey
05-11-2010, 02:41 PM
DId I miss something? Last I checked, UNC had not offered Austin a scholarship yet. But today on scout.com, he is listed as a prospect and has "yes" listed under "offer".

Is this old news or did Roy officially offer the scholarship in the past couple of days? I didn't think they had one to give until "The Great Wear Transfer of 2010".

So if he used one of those scholly's, and he offered Kadeem Jack one, that uses up the 2 the Wear's opened up.

SupaDave
05-11-2010, 02:49 PM
can we just eliminate HB as a subject of conversation allready? i'd take singler as a senior then HB as a freshman 100 times out of 100. where would he fit on this team anyways? im not saying he wouldnt play, obviously a talent like him would be on the floor but i think we have to consider the possiblilty of chemistry issues if he had committed to duke. he would also inhibit the maturation of players like dawkins and ryan kelly from seeing the floor hindering the development of key players for dukes future, there is also the possiblilty that his commitment would have had a underhanded affect on singlers decision to return. the last thing i would want is for some hot-shot freshman pushing maybe an ALL-TIME great duke player out the door. Lets put the matter to rest because i think (hopefully everyone agrees) this all was for the better.

Particularly b/c HB is a great litmus test. I prefer to use the experience to our advantage so to speak. As Stray has pointed out, what he did is something that is RARELY if ever seen from a recruit. For me it helps put Austin into perspective that much better. Boynton, Monroe, Patterson - none of them said a bad word about Duke after picking their respective Universities. However, Patterson left just as bad a taste in folks mouths as Harrison has.

airowe
05-11-2010, 02:50 PM
DId I miss something? Last I checked, UNC had not offered Austin a scholarship yet. But today on scout.com, he is listed as a prospect and has "yes" listed under "offer".

Is this old news or did Roy officially offer the scholarship in the past couple of days? I didn't think they had one to give until "The Great Wear Transfer of 2010".

So if he used one of those scholly's, and he offered Kadeem Jack one, that uses up the 2 the Wear's opened up.

Roy offered Austin some time ago but he won't win this battle.

left_hook_lacey
05-11-2010, 03:20 PM
Roy offered Austin some time ago but he won't win this battle.

Your confidence is soothing. I wish I had that trait. Got any proof to ease my mind? Everytime I close my eyes I still see HB on skype.

Big Pappa
05-11-2010, 03:28 PM
Roy offered Austin some time ago but he won't win this battle.


Your confidence is soothing. I wish I had that trait. Got any proof to ease my mind? Everytime I close my eyes I still see HB on skype.

I agree with airowe here, just listening and reading interviews with Austin he is much different than HB. Lacey, the proof we have is all listed in this thread so check back through here.

dcdevil2009
05-11-2010, 03:29 PM
isn't he technically allowed to offer 13? since the offer is only for one year, he isn't obligated to renew any. it only becomes a problem at the end of next year, when more than 13 players come back and he has to pull a Cal or guide someone like HB to the NBA.

PhillyDuke
05-11-2010, 03:39 PM
who gives a flip about Barnes? He's the enemy now, so hate him like we hate the rest of those dork carolina players!!! As long as Carrick Felix, or Hairston; or somebody jumps in his *** next year, we'll be happy.

Orange&BlackSheep
05-11-2010, 03:39 PM
Well how about Bobby Hurley (my favorite player ever) and Jason Williams both saying that they wanted to go to Carolina but that they were told there was unfortunately no room. Do we think less of them for "settling" for Duke?

Mike Corey
05-11-2010, 03:47 PM
The Harrison Barnes recruitment reminds me a lot of what Ernest Hemingway used to say about his writing. Think of a glacier: You can only see 10% of it, that which appears on the surface.

It's not that Harrison chose a school other than Duke; it's the manner in which he went about doing so that is so irksome.

But nevermind. Duke won a national championship and Kyle Singler is coming back for his senior season. To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Welcome2DaSlopes
05-11-2010, 04:14 PM
We close Harrison Barnes thread, yet, we talk about him in almost everyother thread, honestly I don't know why some people arent over him.

Big Pappa
05-11-2010, 04:21 PM
We close Harrison Barnes thread, yet, we talk about him in almost everyother thread, honestly I don't know why some people arent over him.

Couldn't agree more.

El_Diablo
05-11-2010, 04:30 PM
isn't he technically allowed to offer 13? since the offer is only for one year, he isn't obligated to renew any. it only becomes a problem at the end of next year, when more than 13 players come back and he has to pull a Cal or guide someone like HB to the NBA.

Technically, Roy could offer 13,000 if he wanted to. Of course, only 13 can get scholarships in any given year. But you're right...they're renewable year-to-year, so he could yank one (or more, a la Calipari) if he over-recruits.

In fact, Roy already over-recruited when he got commitments from Hairston and McAdoo, which put UNC at 14 scholarships for 2011-12. That situation has resolved itself already, with three players departing the program early (Davis, Wears).

Jderf
05-11-2010, 04:31 PM
We close Harrison Barnes thread, yet, we talk about him in almost everyother thread, honestly I don't know why some people arent over him.

Well, in defense of this thread, when HB was originally brought up it was perfectly relevant, but only as an illustration of the fact that reaching a general consensus of a recruit's college destination does not make it true. Then, it got horribly derailed and spiralled into a discussion about HB's character, which I really don't think any of us are in a position to make a definitive statement about. However, it does still stand as good evidence that you never know where a recruit is going until he shows up on campus (and even then they often end up graduating somewhere else).

Class of '94
05-11-2010, 04:39 PM
Well how about Bobby Hurley (my favorite player ever) and Jason Williams both saying that they wanted to go to Carolina but that they were told there was unfortunately no room. Do we think less of them for "settling" for Duke?

I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?

wilko
05-11-2010, 04:59 PM
I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?

I think I thought I heard that it was King Rice, not Kenny Anderson....
The names have been changed but the plot is essentially in tact if my memory serves

Orange&BlackSheep
05-11-2010, 05:00 PM
That is more or less the story I know as well. I still see that as someone wanting to go to Carolina but not so much as to be willing to be a back up. My only point was that he entered the recruiting process wanting to play for Carolina. Once Carolina would not go steady with him and Duke clearly would, BH made the wise decision that he did.

I heard JayWill being interviewed on WRAL via a DBR link in the last 3 months recounting the "well-known" story that he wanted to go to Carolina but that Guthridge told him that they did not have room for him.

The only point I am making is that I am sure if you asked BH or JayWill about Carolina in the beginning of the recruiting process vs when they arrived on campus, you would probably hear a marked change in tone. It may not have reached the level of Harrison Barnes' attributed quotation but still ...

blueprofessor
05-11-2010, 05:01 PM
I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?

Yes, apparently a very bad recruiting decision by UNC.

Slate link:
http://www.slate.com/id/2059357

Best regards and thank you, Tarheels! Blueprofessor:)

Faison1
05-11-2010, 05:05 PM
I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?

Yes, for both of them, UNC was their first choice. Your story about Hurley is accurate. And Jason Williams openly told the world multiple times that UNC was his first choice. But I think Coach Gut recruited Adam Morrison first.

airowe
05-11-2010, 05:11 PM
I heard it through the grapevine that Austin Rivers won't commit to Duke until this thread has passed the length of the John Wall Recruitment Thread. Only a little over 1,000 posts to go...

Class of '94
05-11-2010, 05:11 PM
That is more or less the story I know as well. I still see that as someone wanting to go to Carolina but not so much as to be willing to be a back up. My only point was that he entered the recruiting process wanting to play for Carolina. Once Carolina would not go steady with him and Duke clearly would, BH made the wise decision that he did.

I heard JayWill being interviewed on WRAL via a DBR link in the last 3 months recounting the "well-known" story that he wanted to go to Carolina but that Guthridge told him that they did not have room for him.

The only point I am making is that I am sure if you asked BH or JayWill about Carolina in the beginning of the recruiting process vs when they arrived on campus, you would probably hear a marked change in tone. It may not have reached the level of Harrison Barnes' attributed quotation but still ...

Got it.....Your point is well taken. And both Hurley and J-Will have enjoyed their times at Duke. On a side note, I agree with saying....."Thank-you Carolina for making at least 2 bad decisions".

blueprofessor
05-11-2010, 05:27 PM
Yes, for both of them, UNC was their first choice. Your story about Hurley is accurate. And Jason Williams openly told the world multiple times that UNC was his first choice. But I think Coach Gut recruited Adam Morrison first.

Gut refused to sign JW as Ed Cota had a year of eligibility left. Gut ,after Cota left in the spring of 2000, recruited Omar Cook , but was turned off by his personality and lack of respect.
So, he recruited and signed Adam "not Hermes" Boone. Thank goodness.
Best--Blueprofessor:)

-bdbd
05-11-2010, 05:37 PM
Originally Posted by Class of '94
I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?



I think I thought I heard that it was King Rice, not Kenny Anderson....
The names have been changed but the plot is essentially in tact if my memory serves

It was Kenny Anderson. At the time most recruiting "experts" - it wasn't the industry that it is now - clearly labeled UNC as the leaders for KA. It was fairly late in the process that Ga Tech and, I think, Bobby Cremmins, swooped in and surprised everyone by stealing him off to Atlanta.

I'm sure that there's plenty of stories like this both ways - a lot of recruiting is guesswork and projections of how well kids will turn out years in the future. I've always thought it funny that while heel fans loved to revile Laettner, Hurley, J-Will, Battier, etc. these were all players that NC@CH had also recruited.

:D :D :D

PADukeMom
05-11-2010, 08:52 PM
If Austin Rivers comes to DUKE that would be fantastic. If he does go to Carolina DUKE will survive.
My point is, all I heard last year was DUKE can't win a NC without John Wall. The way I saw it & correct me if I'm wrong, DUKE didn't need John Wall to win a NC but John Wall needed to be at DUKE to win the NC.
I said it at the beginning of the season, I will take our Jon over John Wall any day of the week.

jimsumner
05-11-2010, 09:14 PM
North Carolina and Duke were both recruiting Kenny Anderson and Bobby Hurley. Bob Hurley, Sr. approached Dean Smith and asked him if he would accept a committment from his son and stop recruiting Anderson.

Smith declined the offer.

The same offer was made to Mike Krzyzewski. He accepted.

Bill Guthridge thought that Ronald Curry was his point guard of the future and didn't think Jason Williams was a shooting guard. Not Guthridge's finest moment.

Christian Laettner apparently had some interest in UNC but Dean Smith preferred Elizabeth City's Kenny Williams. Williams turned out to be an academic train wreck and never played a second for the Heels.

atldukie68
05-11-2010, 09:16 PM
If Austin Rivers comes to DUKE that would be fantastic. If he does go to Carolina DUKE will survive.
My point is, all I heard last year was DUKE can't win a NC without John Wall. The way I saw it & correct me if I'm wrong, DUKE didn't need John Wall to win a NC but John Wall needed to be at DUKE to win the NC.
I said it at the beginning of the season, I will take our Jon over John Wall any day of the week.

Great post. Calipari can have the one and done AAU superstar$. I realize there's a chance we may only have KI for 1 year, although I'm hoping for a minimum of 2, but this year proved that there's a lot to be said for the Zoubeks, the Thomases, and the Scheyers. And next year, the Singlers and the Smiths... I think Coach does a great job of pulling together all the various parts to make a team. It doesn't always work out perfectly or as planned, but sometimes it does turn into a beautiful dish like our 2009-2010 Natl Champs...

Brian913
05-11-2010, 10:48 PM
I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?

I know someone very closely involved with Hurley's college decision. Bobby wanted to go to St. Johns and his father vetoed it. It was limited to Duke or unc. His dad and the group working with him decided on Duke as soon as he qualified.

PhillyDuke
05-11-2010, 10:55 PM
I recall Jayson Williams wanted to go to Rutgers to be with his friend Dahntay Jones, and his mother actually made him visit Duke; afterwhich he committed. I remember Dick Vitale laughing while telling during a game.

Tappan Zee Devil
05-11-2010, 11:00 PM
I recall Jayson Williams wanted to go to Rutgers to be with his friend Dahntay Jones, and his mother actually made him visit Duke; afterwhich he committed. I remember Dick Vitale laughing while telling during a game.

If you are talking about our Jason Williams, it is Jason, not Jayson. Jayson shot his driver and is now in prison. I hope that is not the person you mean :)

Welcome2DaSlopes
05-11-2010, 11:01 PM
Anything new on Austin?

WiJoe
05-11-2010, 11:12 PM
if austin rivers comes to duke that would be fantastic. If he does go to carolina duke will survive.
My point is, all i heard last year was duke can't win a nc without john wall. The way i saw it & correct me if i'm wrong, duke didn't need john wall to win a nc but john wall needed to be at duke to win the nc.
I said it at the beginning of the season, i will take our jon over john wall any day of the week.

good work, "mom"

yancem
05-12-2010, 12:05 AM
I heard it through the grapevine that Austin Rivers won't commit to Duke until this thread has passed the length of the John Wall Recruitment Thread. Only a little over 1,000 posts to go...

Well in that case we should have a commitment by Labor Day!

ChicagoCrazy84
05-12-2010, 01:16 AM
Anything new on Austin?


Yes, according to my sources, Austin is really good and is considering Duke now. :D

Sorry, I had to do it. I don't think there is anything new since his Duke banquet visit.

The waiiiiit is the hardest part!

Saratoga2
05-12-2010, 07:35 AM
I had to mention how well the Celtics are playing. The father is a great basketball coach and the son is a great young player. Maybe someday the son will play for the father.

Faison1
05-12-2010, 08:39 AM
Gut refused to sign JW as Ed Cota had a year of eligibility left. Gut ,after Cota left in the spring of 2000, recruited Omar Cook , but was turned off by his personality and lack of respect.
So, he recruited and signed Adam "not Hermes" Boone. Thank goodness.
Best--Blueprofessor:)

Whoops! My bad.....I meant Adam Boone...not Morrison. UNC had another kid named Brian Morrison around the same time, no? Man, those were some glorious years, as UNC kept getting bad recruit after bad recruit. Think about that time period.....Ronald Curry, Kris Lang, Jason Capel, Adam Boone....all those kids came in with HUGE expectations, only to underwhelm in a BIG way....

Good times, good times.....sorry to go so far off topic......

MChambers
05-12-2010, 09:09 AM
Whoops! My bad.....I meant Adam Boone...not Morrison. UNC had another kid named Brian Morrison around the same time, no? Man, those were some glorious years, as UNC kept getting bad recruit after bad recruit. Think about that time period.....Ronald Curry, Kris Lang, Jason Capel, Adam Boone....all those kids came in with HUGE expectations, only to underwhelm in a BIG way....

Good times, good times.....sorry to go so far off topic......

You left out Neil Fingleton, who has a pretty good Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Fingleton

I remember people on this board being worried about UNC signing such a big player!

UrinalCake
05-12-2010, 11:15 AM
Think about that time period.....Ronald Curry, Kris Lang, Jason Capel, Adam Boone....all those kids came in with HUGE expectations, only to underwhelm in a BIG way....

Since you mentioned Kris Lang, I feel obligated to post this. I'll use any excuse I can to bring this out 8-)

http://www.deaconarchive.net/image/opponents/krislang.JPG

Huh?
05-12-2010, 11:50 AM
You left out Neil Fingleton, who has a pretty good Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neil_Fingleton

I remember people on this board being worried about UNC signing such a big player!

http://neilfingletonlive.com/Home_Page.html

Tiniest head ever?

devildeac
05-12-2010, 02:29 PM
[QUOTE=Underdog5;407499][QUOTE=flyingdutchdevil;407489]Had HB came to Duke, would we ever call him "disingenuous?"

This is an excellent point. I mean we're all singing the praises of Austin right now, and deservedly so, but we were also singing the praises of Barnes much to the same tune at one time.

Austin decommitted from Florida after a long courtship and what appears to be a very close relationship with Billy Donovan. I'm sure there are some Florida fans out there that would consider Austin to be "disingenuous" right now.

What if Harrison Barnes had verbally committed to Duke, and THEN decommitted to announce he was going to Chapel Hill? He would be even more loathed than he is right now.


What if there was the "silent verbal" at the end of his visit to Duke and then affirmation of that the day after? Just sayin'...

Now, about that young man Mr. Rivers...

devildeac
05-12-2010, 02:33 PM
I never heard that Jason Williams wanted to go to UNC. Can anyone else confirm that b/c it looked Duke was J-Will's first choice and that he loved the idea of playing for Coach K. And I find it hard to imagine that if J-Will wanted to play for UNC that they wouldn't have made arrangements to get him there.

On the Hurley note, that's not how I heard it and I was there during the time Hurley was at Duke. I heard that Hurley did originally want to go to UNC and UNC had a scholarship available but they were forcused on trying to get Kenny Anderson. Hurley wanted UNC to forget trying to recruit Anderson; if they had, he would have committed to UNC. Dean Smith said no and chose to focus on Anderson with Hurley being the backup option if they didn't get Anderson. However, Hurley chose to go to Duke since UNC made Anderson their priority.

Has anyone else heard this?


I think I thought I heard that it was King Rice, not Kenny Anderson....
The names have been changed but the plot is essentially in tact if my memory serves

It was Kenny Anderson, IIRC.

blueduke59
05-12-2010, 06:00 PM
Yes, for both of them, UNC was their first choice. Your story about Hurley is accurate. And Jason Williams openly told the world multiple times that UNC was his first choice. But I think Coach Gut recruited Adam Morrison first.

Gut told Williams Ronald Curry would be UNC's PG. As for Hurley, his dad told Smith if he'd offer Bobby a scholarship he'd be a Tar Hole. Smith held out of Kenny Anderson

MChambers
05-12-2010, 08:38 PM
Any signs of violent gerbils?

Faison1
05-12-2010, 09:30 PM
Since you mentioned Kris Lang, I feel obligated to post this. I'll use any excuse I can to bring this out 8-)

http://www.deaconarchive.net/image/opponents/krislang.JPG

I never get tired of seeing that picture.....too good. If Kris hadn't been so lousy, I would've ranked him in my top 20 least favorite Tar Heels. Luckily for me, that photo will be his only legacy.

Remember when we lost Jason Capel to the Heels, and all the teeth-nashing that took place shortly afterwards? Hopefully, that gives some good perspective.....

DukeBlueNV
05-12-2010, 10:29 PM
http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/77424/photos/PHOTO_2892146_77424_6970737_main.jpg

has anyone one seen this before? HAHA... im thinking this trumps all when it comes to goofy unc player pics.

WiJoe
05-12-2010, 10:51 PM
Wow. Almost spit up my soda.

Big Pappa
05-12-2010, 11:16 PM
Wow. Thank you so much for that.

ChicagoCrazy84
05-13-2010, 12:25 AM
Hahahahaha, good stuff. I don't know, those are pretty close if you ask me. I'll give the "edge" to Hansbrough because of his bangs. Hahahahahaha.

El_Diablo
05-13-2010, 12:26 AM
...and I have a new avatar!

DukeFanSince1990
05-13-2010, 07:49 AM
...and I have a new avatar!

Thats great.:)

kong123
05-13-2010, 07:59 AM
this one ain't bad

SupaDave
05-13-2010, 10:04 AM
Let's get this thread back to being a little more focused...

-jk
05-13-2010, 10:15 AM
Let's get this thread back to being a little more focused...

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=852&d=1256094481

It doesn't matter how many silly pictures of UNC players get posted - we'll always have Kenny!

(OK, SupaDave, now we can get the thread back on track.)

-jk

UrinalCake
05-13-2010, 10:27 AM
this one ain't bad

Separated at birth?

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1090&d=1273751940

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/brightangel90_2008/Twilight/RobertPattinson.jpg

BD80
05-13-2010, 01:08 PM
Posted today by Goodman:

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/05/13/heading_on_vacation:_guest_blogging_marathon_begin s_with_austin_rivers

Austin discusses recruiting. Doesn't indicate lean.

PADukeMom
05-13-2010, 01:18 PM
You guys have seriously ruined the rest of my afternoon after looking at those pictures:p

It must be awesome to be a 17 year old kid & having a 69 page thread that is all about you posted on the reining National Champ fan page. Good for you Austin!

Kedsy
05-13-2010, 01:21 PM
Posted today by Goodman:

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/05/13/heading_on_vacation:_guest_blogging_marathon_begin s_with_austin_rivers

Austin discusses recruiting. Doesn't indicate lean.

More than that, there doesn't appear to be a lean, at least compared to his last diary entry. In this piece, he describes his initial involvement with Duke by saying "[i]t was kind of random." I wouldn't count this chicken before it... you know.

Kedsy
05-13-2010, 01:52 PM
Austin won't be #1 in the nation unless he starts concentrating on improving his defense. And he knows that. If he does that, he'll play plenty at Duke from Day One.

[/argument]

After reading Austin's guest blog entry, it seems he agrees with you:

"My focus this summer is to become a defensive stopper. People know I can score and do the flashy stuff like dunk, but I want people to see me as someone who can do everything. I watch Kobe and LeBron and thatís where they separate themselves Ė guys that work hard on both ends of the court and thatís something I want to do.

Iím not just saying that, either. Starting this weekend in Houston, Iím going to guard the best player on the floor. "

Good call.


I love that everyone assumes Austin would start over a Junior Andre Dawkins. For one, K LOVES experience and obviously defense. I would bet Dre's defense in his 3rd year is ahead of Austin's in his 1st. Secondly, Dre is a very gifted athlete who can run and jump and by his 3rd year may be one of the better shooters in the country. Remember, he probably would have been a Mickie D, this kid is no joke. If I had to bet now, I'd bet Dre is starting by the time he is a Junior.

Not that this hasn't been discussed before...I just think its funny that this is an assumed scenario by most. Kind of like when people thought EWill would start over Scheyer...:rolleyes:

For those who believe there is a possibility that Austin Rivers would come to Duke and not start, I offer the following table, which contains (as far as I could tell) all of Duke's top 40 recruits since 1999 and how many games they started their freshman year. (Rankings are from RSCI, which only dates back to 1999.)


Recruit-----------ranking---starts/games
===============================
Josh McRoberts-----#1-------31/36
Luol Deng----------#2-------32/37
Jason Williams------#3-------34/34
Kyle Singler--------#5-------34/34
Chris Duhon--------#7-------10/39
Carlos Boozer------#8-------30/34
Shelden Williams---#8-------23/33
Gerald Henderson--#10------10/33
JJ Redick----------#11------30/33
Greg Paulus--------#13------33/36
Shavlik Randolph---#14-------6/33
Ryan Kelly---------#14-------0/35
Elliot Williams------#15------12/34
Casey Sanders----#16-------0/34
DeMarcus Nelson--#18-------2/33
Mason Plumlee----#18-------1/35
Nolan Smith-------#19--------1/34
Lance Thomas----#20-------18/33
Sean Dockery-----#21--------0/33
Taylor King-------#24--------0/34
Brian Zoubek-----#25--------2/33
Mike Dunleavy----#26------- 2/34
Jon Scheyer------#28-------32/33
Daniel Ewing------#29--------0/35
Michael Thompson-#30-------0/33
Eric Boateng------#39-------0/36

So, it's a small sample size, but what it says to me is if you're a top 5 recruit you are going to start at Duke your freshman year. If you're in the top 10 (or maybe 12 or 13) you've got a pretty good chance to start. If you're below that, the odds are against you (unless it's 2007, which hopefully won't happen again anytime soon).

This is why saying Austin would start in 2011-12 is a very different statement from saying EWill would start in 2008-09.

left_hook_lacey
05-13-2010, 05:00 PM
http://media.kickstatic.com/kickapps/images/77424/photos/PHOTO_2892146_77424_6970737_main.jpg

has anyone one seen this before? HAHA... im thinking this trumps all when it comes to goofy unc player pics.

Yeah, and what's with the Michigan band shirt?

WannabeDukie
05-13-2010, 05:13 PM
Yeah, and what's with the Michigan band shirt?

Pacers?

SilkyJ
05-13-2010, 06:40 PM
For those who believe there is a possibility that Austin Rivers would come to Duke and not start, I offer the following table, which contains (as far as I could tell) all of Duke's top 40 recruits since 1999 and how many games they started their freshman year. (Rankings are from RSCI, which only dates back to 1999.)


Recruit-----------ranking---starts/games
===============================
Josh McRoberts-----#1-------31/36
Luol Deng----------#2-------32/37
Jason Williams------#3-------34/34
Kyle Singler--------#5-------34/34
Carlos Boozer------#8-------30/34
Shelden Williams---#8-------23/33
JJ Redick----------#11------30/33
Greg Paulus--------#13------33/36
Jon Scheyer------#28-------32/33

So, it's a small sample size, but what it says to me is if you're a top 5 recruit you are going to start at Duke your freshman year. If you're in the top 10 (or maybe 12 or 13) you've got a pretty good chance to start.

Stats are nothing without context. Does Jason Williams come in and start over William Avery if Avery doesn't go pro? Doubtful. Does he play a ton of minutes and do they play together like Wojo and Avery did in Avery's freshman year? Probably.

Boozer's replacement of Brand is identical...as is Shelden's replacement of Boozer.

JJ replaced a backcourt left thin by JWill, Dunleavy and Nate

McBob came in after Shav jumped ship (some say b/c McBob was coming to town...) and Paulus began starting once Demarcus went down in MSG vs. Drexel.

Scheyer filled a gap left open by the departure of JJ and Dockery.

Singler came in after the team had its worst season in 10 years.

So basically all those guys filled holes that were left open for them. Context matters.

(I didn't mention Luol. He had to compete with Shav for the starting PF spot and it wasn't much of a contest. And how's this for context: strength of the recruiting class matters and Luol was the consensus #2 behind Lebron in his class.)

The Austin Rivers over Seth Curry/Andre Dawkins scenario is much different. Whereas the previous guys were filling holes, AR would be competing against upperclassmen who are ACC caliber players.

The upperclassmen JWill had to battle: No one.
Boozer: Matt Christensen
Shelden: Casey Sanders and Nick Horvath (if Dre and Curry turn out to be as good as Casey and Horvath at their respective positions, I'd be SHOCKED)
JJ: Daniel Ewing and they both played over 27mpg.
Luol: Shav
McBob: No one.
Paulus: Dockery and Demarcus, though demarcus went down and Paulus and Dock played alongside eachother the whole season.

I see Austin's competition against Dre and Seth as much more fierce than any of the above guys.

But even that doesn't tell the whole story, which is that really we don't know how good Dre and Seth will be in 18 months. AR won't be stepping into a depleted backcourt, he'll be stepping into a very solid one, which is why even if we don't get him I'm not worried.

Could he start? Sure. Will he? Maybe. What I do know is that its going to be awfully tough to predict it one way or the other when we are 18 months from the start of the 2011-2012 season and Seth could become the 2nd coming of his brother and Dre might be averaging 45% on 3s and throwing down oops on kids by then...WHO KNOWS??? But why bring rationality to a recruiting thread...

gumbomoop
05-13-2010, 06:48 PM
Shelden: Casey Sanders and Nick Horvath (if Dre and Curry turn out to be as good as Casey and Horvath at their respective positions, I'd be SHOCKED)

But why bring rationality to a recruiting thread...

In emboldened tag quote phrase, did you mean "only as good as"?

While your argument is rational, I myself haven't found the counter-view irrational. Interesting, rational, difference of opinion.

SilkyJ
05-13-2010, 07:09 PM
In emboldened tag quote phrase, did you mean "only as good as"?


YES. thank you for clarifying.



While your argument is rational, I myself haven't found the counter-view irrational. Interesting, rational, difference of opinion.

The basis of my argument is that Austin is going to be competing against very good players for PT. Trying to predict the lineup 18months from now with that much skill involved, and 18mos of development ahead of them, is very difficult. To just say "Austin is definitely going to start" is a mostly uninformed guess and therefore is a fairly irrational statement, imho.

77devil
05-13-2010, 09:18 PM
YES. thank you for clarifying.



The basis of my argument is that Austin is going to be competing against very good players for PT. Trying to predict the lineup 18months from now with that much skill involved, and 18mos of development ahead of them, is very difficult. To just say "Austin is definitely going to start" is a mostly uninformed guess and therefore is a fairly irrational statement, imho.

Humble opinion, since when? ;)

Big Pappa
05-13-2010, 09:40 PM
The basis of my argument is that Austin is going to be competing against very good players for PT. Trying to predict the lineup 18months from now with that much skill involved, and 18mos of development ahead of them, is very difficult. To just say "Austin is definitely going to start" is a mostly uninformed guess and therefore is a fairly irrational statement, imho.

Are we gonna have to start this discussion again Silk ;)

SupaDave
05-13-2010, 09:56 PM
Are we gonna have to start this discussion again Silk ;)

Might as well. I'm sure there's SOMETHING we haven't covered. As long as it's about Austin in some way, shape or form.

I'm definitely liking this defensive development. Houston should be very lively quite soon. Houston is one of my cities so I think I just may have to make the trip down. Somebody has got to see him in person right?

SilkyJ
05-13-2010, 10:43 PM
Are we gonna have to start this discussion again Silk ;)

HAHA. Well our previous discussion was more about coach k's pitch as opposed to actually predicting the lineup so I suppose this is a different discussion. I've made my point tho :)


Humble opinion, since when? ;)

fine. just "IMO"

...which is right...

Also, dont forget that I know where you sleep. :p

SilkyJ
05-13-2010, 10:45 PM
I'm sure there's SOMETHING we haven't covered.

Pondering...

Pondering....

GOT IT!

What is the wingspan, in cinder blocks, of a violent gerbil?

Big Pappa
05-13-2010, 11:00 PM
Pondering...

Pondering....

GOT IT!

What is the wingspan, in cinder blocks, of a violent gerbil?

Haha. NOW we are on the right track.

MisterRoddy
05-14-2010, 12:23 AM
Posted today by Goodman:

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2010/05/13/heading_on_vacation:_guest_blogging_marathon_begin s_with_austin_rivers

Austin discusses recruiting. Doesn't indicate lean.

We also have to look at the possibilty that people got in his ear about being too pro-Duke and so he decided to make it sound a little more neutral. We know he is a Duke lean (him saying so himself) and know that he wants to significantly improve his defense (Duke being the obvious place for this). We also know that every insider both on here and TDD are very VERY confident we land Rivers, some going far enough to say it's a done deal. I'm very confident in our recruitment of Rivers and, while it's not over until he first trots out in Cameron wearing that Duke uni, Im not going to lose much sleep worrying about this one.

I wouldn't take much out of this article.

SilkyJ
05-14-2010, 01:19 AM
I was wrong. already been covered.

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=404328&postcount=1051

OK. When Austin does eventually go pro, what do we think his height, weight, and reach will be in the NBA combine and what will he rank in overall athleticism? No way we could have covered that.

Greg_Newton
05-14-2010, 03:10 AM
If we're about to devolve into cinderblock gerbil wingspan measurements again, I'll throw something out there...

I am ever so slightly concerned about Rivers' offensive style of play. He's obviously incredibly skilled, but he does an awful lot of ball pounding. You've probably noticed that lot of his points come off iso sets where he dribbles in place 3 or 4 times while reading the defender, then launches a three. That probably make sense for his high school team and I'm not knocking him (heck, it's probably due to growing up around the NBA), but it's awful different than the fast paced ball movement and screening of a college offense.

Some players (Irving) make decisions and play so fast that it's clear they'll have no trouble adapting to the college game. But how well does Rivers move off the ball, and can he catch-and-shoot coming off of screens? Can he adjust his style to fit into a team offense with 5 elite players, or will the ball sort of "stop" when it gets to him like it has for certain other players?

I mean, the kid's a can't miss top 5 prospect, and maybe the best 1-on-1 HS player right now... but it's little questions like this that make him less of a sure thing than Irving in my mind (in terms of how good he'll make his college team). I'm not entirely sold that he has a "college game" yet.

Starter
05-14-2010, 03:46 AM
I am ever so slightly concerned about Rivers' offensive style of play. He's obviously incredibly skilled, but he does an awful lot of ball pounding.

You know, the Mona Lisa is pretty sweet, but why the heck doesn't she have eyebrows?

Let's get this guy, then we'll worry about his flaws. ;)

oldnavy
05-14-2010, 07:19 AM
If we're about to devolve into cinderblock gerbil wingspan measurements again, I'll throw something out there...

I am ever so slightly concerned about Rivers' offensive style of play. He's obviously incredibly skilled, but he does an awful lot of ball pounding. You've probably noticed that lot of his points come off iso sets where he dribbles in place 3 or 4 times while reading the defender, then launches a three. That probably make sense for his high school team and I'm not knocking him (heck, it's probably due to growing up around the NBA), but it's awful different than the fast paced ball movement and screening of a college offense.

Some players (Irving) make decisions and play so fast that it's clear they'll have no trouble adapting to the college game. But how well does Rivers move off the ball, and can he catch-and-shoot coming off of screens? Can he adjust his style to fit into a team offense with 5 elite players, or will the ball sort of "stop" when it gets to him like it has for certain other players?

I mean, the kid's a can't miss top 5 prospect, and maybe the best 1-on-1 HS player right now... but it's little questions like this that make him less of a sure thing than Irving in my mind (in terms of how good he'll make his college team). I'm not entirely sold that he has a "college game" yet.

One word, Coach K. Ok, so maybe that is two words, but you get the idea. And I still am standing by my cinder block measurement scale :p

whereinthehellami
05-14-2010, 08:36 AM
Recruit-----------ranking---starts/games
===============================
Josh McRoberts-----#1-------31/36
Luol Deng----------#2-------32/37
Jason Williams------#3-------34/34
Kyle Singler--------#5-------34/34
Chris Duhon--------#7-------10/39
Carlos Boozer------#8-------30/34
Shelden Williams---#8-------23/33
Gerald Henderson--#10------10/33
JJ Redick----------#11------30/33
Greg Paulus--------#13------33/36
Shavlik Randolph---#14-------6/33
Ryan Kelly---------#14-------0/35
Elliot Williams------#15------12/34
Casey Sanders----#16-------0/34
DeMarcus Nelson--#18-------2/33
Mason Plumlee----#18-------1/35
Nolan Smith-------#19--------1/34
Lance Thomas----#20-------18/33
Sean Dockery-----#21--------0/33
Taylor King-------#24--------0/34
Brian Zoubek-----#25--------2/33
Mike Dunleavy----#26------- 2/34
Jon Scheyer------#28-------32/33
Daniel Ewing------#29--------0/35
Michael Thompson-#30-------0/33
Eric Boateng------#39-------0/36

So, it's a small sample size, but what it says to me is if you're a top 5 recruit you are going to start at Duke your freshman year. If you're in the top 10 (or maybe 12 or 13) you've got a pretty good chance to start. If you're below that, the odds are against you (unless it's 2007, which hopefully won't happen again anytime soon).

This is why saying Austin would start in 2011-12 is a very different statement from saying EWill would start in 2008-09.

Interesting info. Thanks for the post.

Indoor66
05-14-2010, 08:45 AM
One word, Coach K. Ok, so maybe that is two words, but you get the idea. And I still am standing by my cinder block measurement scale :p

Is that scale with or without mortar?

MChambers
05-14-2010, 08:46 AM
OK. When Austin does eventually go pro, what do we think his height, weight, and reach will be in the NBA combine and what will he rank in overall athleticism? No way we could have covered that.

What is his wingspan, measured in gerbils?

yancem
05-14-2010, 09:43 AM
What is his wingspan, measured in gerbils?

Normal gerbils or violent gerbils? Violent gerbils tend to be a little bigger so that would impact the scale.


PS- Sorry, I couldn't resist.

DukeBlueNV
05-14-2010, 11:25 AM
Back to rivers... Saw a tweet this morning from Seth Davis saying he talked to doc and he said he wants Austin to wait till SPRING to make a decision! and to not sign a letter of intent? Yikes. Starting to make me a lil nervous... Hopefully he just wants Austin to be sure about his decison and not because he seems to be leaning toward commiting to duke sooner rather then latter... Really don't want these other schools to have that amount of time to develop a relationship that we allready have with Austin.

tecumseh
05-14-2010, 11:45 AM
Left one top recruit off the list who never saw much action for the Blue Devils...Joey Beard. If anyone is feeling sorry for him don't
http://www.bu.edu/bostonia/archives/2007/summer/notes/beard/

Things turned out a lot better for him than many, many NBAers

CEF1959
05-14-2010, 12:09 PM
Nice post about Joey B. Thanks.

Kedsy
05-14-2010, 12:27 PM
Left one top recruit off the list who never saw much action for the Blue Devils...Joey Beard. If anyone is feeling sorry for him don't
http://www.bu.edu/bostonia/archives/2007/summer/notes/beard/

Things turned out a lot better for him than many, many NBAers

I left off a lot of top recruits, because the RSCI only goes back to 1999 (Beard was way before that). Don't know where Beard would fit on the list, although my guess is as a national prospect he was more like a 15 or 20 than a 5 or 10.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 12:34 PM
I dont know about the rest of you guys but this waiting forever is starting to get annoying! I understand its a major decsion for these kids but i think alot of them are just making a game out of it. I can understand if the kid intends to stay in college for 4 years but a kid like austin and many other top recruits are not going to stay four years so why take so long to pick a school? IMO its all about the hype you can make for yourself.. If it were me i would lesson the time you have to choose..

sagegrouse
05-14-2010, 12:48 PM
I dont know about the rest of you guys but this waiting forever is starting to get annoying! I understand its a major decsion for these kids but i think alot of them are just making a game out of it. I can understand if the kid intends to stay in college for 4 years but a kid like austin and many other top recruits are not going to stay four years so why take so long to pick a school? IMO its all about the hype you can make for yourself.. If it were me i would lesson the time you have to choose..

I'll skip the "tough love" speech, which would not be inappropriate. Your dismay over waiting for young Austin Rivers is a reflection more on your (and our) obsession with college recruiting than anything wrong done by this HS student. He is free to make up his mind on his own schedule.

And BTW it may not be "over" when it's "over." His Dad told Seth Davis that he didn't want Austin to sign an LOI, and if he doesn't, he could still change his mind, especially based on early departures for the NBA or the signing of other recruits. Or because .... he just changed his mind.

sagegrouse

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 12:53 PM
I dont really know what you are talking about when you say "tough love" and i am not in dismay. I am a fan of college hoops and even more so with duke! yes i know all of the blah blah about his choice and if it were my kid i would have him take his time and all that stuff. But the bottom line is these arent regular kids, they are in the limelight and taking advantage of it. Austin is one-two year at most college player i just wonder why He and other kids take so long knowing in the back of their mind they wont be in the school they take so long to choose

Kedsy
05-14-2010, 12:57 PM
Austin is one-two year at most college player i just wonder why He and other kids take so long knowing in the back of their mind they wont be in the school they take so long to choose

Because it's his life and not yours.

UrinalCake
05-14-2010, 12:59 PM
How exactly would you "lesson [sic] the time you have to choose"? The guy won't be starting college for over a year. Are you saying the NCAA should require him to make a decision before his senior year of high school even begins, just because you're tired of waiting?

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 01:00 PM
No kidding..:rolleyes:

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 01:03 PM
I am not trying to say anything about forcing kids to choose. What i am saying is i dont understand the hype and the waiting, when 99% of the top recruits already know where they are going.. Look at brandon knight, look how long he waited and the whole world knew he was going to kentucky

UrinalCake
05-14-2010, 01:05 PM
I am not trying to say anything about forcing kids to choose. What i am saying is i dont understand the hype and the waiting, when 99% of the top recruits already know where they are going.. Look at brandon knight, look how long he waited and the whole world knew he was going to kentucky

Maybe he was waiting to see which of the Kentucky guys left early - it wasn't certain that Bledsoe would go, and that would affect Knight. Maybe he wanted to see how well all the teams did in the tournament. Maybe he thought Cal would bolt for the NBA (which is still a remote possibility, and could be why Knight hasn't signed a LOI). A lot can change, but once a guy signs a LOI then he can't change his mind.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 01:07 PM
Yes you are right about that. I just believe alot of these kids infact do know where they are going and just play the waiting game like so many other top recruits are doing these days..But you did make a good point

UrinalCake
05-14-2010, 01:12 PM
Well, if he and Quincy Miller made up their minds today, then we'd have nothing to talk about all summer! Except maybe speculate about guys for 2012 8-)

whereinthehellami
05-14-2010, 01:15 PM
Left one top recruit off the list who never saw much action for the Blue Devils...Joey Beard. If anyone is feeling sorry for him don't
http://www.bu.edu/bostonia/archives/2007/summer/notes/beard/

Things turned out a lot better for him than many, many NBAers

Thanks for the Joey Beard update. I remember watching him at South Lakes High School (same school as Grant Hill IIRC) up in Northern Virginia, he was a good one.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 01:19 PM
I have a Feeling QM knows too..and if i had to bet on it i would say he will be a wildcat

Kedsy
05-14-2010, 01:19 PM
I am not trying to say anything about forcing kids to choose. What i am saying is i dont understand the hype and the waiting, when 99% of the top recruits already know where they are going.. Look at brandon knight, look how long he waited and the whole world knew he was going to kentucky

The whole world may have "known" it, but maybe he wasn't sure. I don't know about you, but deciding where I would go to college was a very difficult decision for me. Even once I was leaning toward Duke, it was only a slight lean and my other choices still seemed attractive. It took me awhile before I was comfortable pulling the trigger.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 01:26 PM
of course its a hard choice for someone that plans on staying in school. I guess i may be speaking on what i would do for the rest of these kids. but it just makes sense to me if i were a top highschool basketball player and knowing pretty sure i wanted to go pro and i knew i was staying in school for 1 year tops i would pick any or the best school that offered. you guys are just acting like these kids are all taking sweet time and not playing the "game"

BD80
05-14-2010, 01:26 PM
The whole world may have "known" it, but maybe he wasn't sure. I don't know about you, but deciding where I would go to college was a very difficult decision for me. Even once I was leaning toward Duke, it was only a slight lean and my other choices still seemed attractive. It took me awhile before I was comfortable pulling the trigger.

But once you did, Mirecourt's softball team's berth in the final four was secure for years to come!

Kedsy
05-14-2010, 02:08 PM
But once you did, Mirecourt's softball team's berth in the final four was secure for years to come!

But we could never win the big one, could we?

Jeff Frosh
05-14-2010, 02:49 PM
Well, we did make it to the finals, only to run into those ringer law schoolers.

rhodycb
05-14-2010, 02:57 PM
Here's the latest on Rivers' recruitment. He really likes Duke:

http://netscoutsbasketball.com/blog/2010/05/14/austin-rivers-recruiting-update-he-loves-duke-but/

Devil's Advocate
05-14-2010, 03:03 PM
Here's the latest on Rivers' recruitment. He really likes Duke:

http://netscoutsbasketball.com/blog/2010/05/14/austin-rivers-recruiting-update-he-loves-duke-but/

Doesn't look like anything new here. Just borrowed info. from previously published sources.

MChambers
05-14-2010, 04:35 PM
Back to rivers... Saw a tweet this morning from Seth Davis saying he talked to doc and he said he wants Austin to wait till SPRING to make a decision! and to not sign a letter of intent? Yikes. Starting to make me a lil nervous... Hopefully he just wants Austin to be sure about his decison and not because he seems to be leaning toward commiting to duke sooner rather then latter... Really don't want these other schools to have that amount of time to develop a relationship that we allready have with Austin.
I think it's perfectly understandable that the parent of the top recruit would want his child to wait on the decision. How does it hurt the recruit to wait? He's so talented that the best schools wait for him. Also, that way he gets to see who will be on the team when he is there and who the coach will be.

Don't get me wrong -- as a fan, I'd rather have him commit to Duke today. But if he decides to wait, we should respect that.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 05:40 PM
I do respect the fact kids need to take time to think about the choice if they are going to be in school for more than 1-2 years. My problem is this is more of a business choice more than anything. IMO and im not just speaking as a duke fan, but what can there be much to think about? you are offered to come and play for one of if not the best coaches ever, a school with some of the best academics in the country, A team thats on the summit of college basketball right now, you will get more tv exposure playing for duke than any other school. I mean what more do you need? the kid dont have to worry about PT he is one of the best players in the country and besides that why worry about a place you arent going to be in for four years??

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 05:51 PM
I think it's perfectly understandable that the parent of the top recruit would want his child to wait on the decision. How does it hurt the recruit to wait? He's so talented that the best schools wait for him. Also, that way he gets to see who will be on the team when he is there and who the coach will be.

Don't get me wrong -- as a fan, I'd rather have him commit to Duke today. But if he decides to wait, we should respect that.


I do respect the fact kids need to take time to think about the choice if they are going to be in school for more than 1-2 years. My problem is this is more of a business choice more than anything. IMO and im not just speaking as a duke fan, but what can there be much to think about? you are offered to come and play for one of if not the best coaches ever, a school with some of the best academics in the country, A team thats on the summit of college basketball right now, you will get more tv exposure playing for duke than any other school. I mean what more do you need? the kid dont have to worry about PT he is one of the best players in the country and besides that why worry about a place you arent going to be in for four years??

MChambers is absolutely correct here. I hope Austin comes here and I would love for him to commit right now but I'm OK with it not happening yet. HS kids need to have a chance to look around, visit, and consider all the different aspects of their choice.

You worry about the place you are going because many times it is the most important decision of your career. You have no choice (most of the time) on where you go in league via the draft, but you have the choice of colleges. Even if Austin only stays a couple of years it still matters greatly where he goes, many of them are the points you mentioned earlier in your post: academics, coaching, prestige, and exposure. IMO you contradicted yourself with the last statement of your post.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 05:57 PM
In what way did i contradict myself? My point is yes take your time but i believe most of these kids in fact do know where they are going. Its pretty funny how a lot of kids seem to all of the sudden know where they are going once the end of the signing period comes around..

Jderf
05-14-2010, 05:59 PM
You worry about the place you are going because many times it is the most important decision of your career. You have no choice (most of the time) on where you go in league via the draft, but you have the choice of colleges. Even if Austin only stays a couple of years it still matters greatly where he goes, many of them are the points you mentioned earlier in your post: academics, coaching, prestige, and exposure. IMO you contradicted yourself with the last statement of your post.

I agree with you Big Pappa that there's no doubt he needs to be deliberate in his choice. I mean, even if the basketball player in question only stays one year, it's still a huge decision, probably the biggest and most important decision that person has made up until that point in their life. I mean, one year is not a minuscule period of time that one can simply scoff at. It's a whole year. And for an eighteen year-old that's gotta seem pretty monumental. Add that to the fact that people will continue to identify you with the college you select for the rest of your life, and it's definitely not a nonchalant decision. Let the kids take their time.

Big Pappa
05-14-2010, 06:01 PM
In what way did i contradict myself? My point is yes take your time but i believe most of these kids in fact do know where they are going. Its pretty funny how alot of kids seem to all of the sudden know where they are going once the sigining period come around

You contradicted yourself by listing all of the important factors that go into making a decision (at Duke in particular) and then you said, "why worry about a place you won't be in 4 years".

I don't think very many kids know where they are going for sure. A great example is, in fact, Austin. He committed to Florida and then decommitted because he decided not to go there. Instead of making that mistake again (or at all for other recruits) it is good for a kid to take his time to make the decision.

Dukefan4Life
05-14-2010, 06:10 PM
I was just saying he has a golden offer on the table for duke. I just dont see what there is to think about. I guess I am just being a fan more than anything. I just dont see why you wouldnt take the duke offer like it was a million bucks

SupaDave
05-14-2010, 06:49 PM
I was just saying he has a golden offer on the table for duke. I just dont see what there is to think about. I guess I am just being a fan more than anything. I just dont see why you wouldnt take the duke offer like it was a million bucks

Two reasons why:

-his kinda talent can go ANYWHERE (as a matter of fact there's a thread about where most folks would go to school if they could do it all over again and while many chose Duke - many chose schools for totally arbitrary and random feel good reasons)
-he's looking for more than money

DukeBlueNV
05-14-2010, 06:54 PM
we should really stop thinking about this situation through the eyes of fans of duke (or whatever program austin is considering) we have te realize that he probably wasnt a duke, unc, kansas, uk or whatever fan growing up so what reasons would he have for picking one program over the other? all have great coaches, history, national exposure, players (past and present), fan support, etc. So the question is what seperates duke from the rest? of course i (and most likely u) think duke is the best in most of those categories but does he? his dad? probably. but just because if we were in his situation we would jump on a scholly offer from duke doesnt mean that he or any other recruit would. they arent fans and they arent thinking like one either. its seems like with most high-profile recruits its a biz decision made with aau coaches, other "advisors" and sometimes parents who sometimes have money and exposure on the mind instead of more noble factors like education, school tradition, coach reputation, winning with class, stuff like that. luckily seems like austin and his dad are in the minority when it comes to recruits and their mentality towards his recruitment. i think this ends in our favor but we have to understand this is an important decision and he could end up taking his time before he commits again.

HowBoutDemDevils
05-14-2010, 08:33 PM
I was reading this thread while on my phone while at Orlando Int'l airport this morning and saw Rivers as I was headed to grab some food. I was tempted to ask him what was up with his guest blog entry, but figured he's been inundated enough with the questions. Seemed like a nice kid. He was pretty skinny...could use some Nate James tutelage to get some bulk

-jk
05-14-2010, 08:56 PM
I was reading this thread while on my phone while at Orlando Int'l airport this morning and saw Rivers as I was headed to grab some food. I was tempted to ask him what was up with his guest blog entry, but figured he's been inundated enough with the questions. Seemed like a nice kid. He was pretty skinny...could use some Nate James tutelage to get some bulk

Please read the compliance (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showpost.php?p=205515&postcount=5) sticky before thinking of approaching a recruit again.

thanks,

-jk

HowBoutDemDevils
05-14-2010, 09:09 PM
I didn't approach... As I said above, I figured he'd been inundated with enough questions (as in from other people). Just was reporting a sighting.

Newton_14
05-14-2010, 09:25 PM
I didn't approach... As I said above, I figured he'd been inundated with enough questions (as in from other people). Just was reporting a sighting.

You made the right choice, just for the wrong reason. What jk was pointing out is you are not allowed to approach a recruit and ask him questions. While it may sound silly, the rules are quite clear in the NCAA rule book. It would have been considered a minor recruiting violation against Duke.

No harm no foul since you wisely walked away.

SilkyJ
05-14-2010, 09:55 PM
You made the right choice, just for the wrong reason. What jk was pointing out is you are not allowed to approach a recruit and ask him questions. While it may sound silly, the rules are quite clear in the NCAA rule book. It would have been considered a minor recruiting violation against Duke.

No harm no foul since you wisely walked away.

But nonetheless an EXTREMELY important rule to note. It is not against DBR guidelines, its against NCAA RULEs TO APPROACH THE RECRUIT.

Let the staff do its job...though K can't really recruit anymore :eek::p:D

ElSid
05-14-2010, 09:56 PM
But nonetheless an EXTREMELY important rule to note. It is not against DBR guidelines, its against NCAA RULEs TO APPROACH THE RECRUIT.

Let the staff do its job...though K can't really recruit anymore :eek::p:D

Wow you had a chance to be the Steve Bartman of Duke Basketball recruiting...

-jk
05-14-2010, 11:36 PM
Folks,

Please take the info in the compliance sticky seriously. We do. Duke does. And the NCAA does.

thanks,

-jk

BoozerWasFouled
05-15-2010, 12:07 AM
Folks,

Please take the info in the compliance sticky seriously. We do. Duke does. And the NCAA does.

thanks,

-jk

Nowhere on this thread has anyone described an action that would constitute a violation of NCAA rules.

Even if the poster had asked Rivers about the article, it would not have been an NCAA violation. If it were, watzone would be a walking NCAA violation. No mod jumps in and censors him when he reports asking recruits questions.

Taking compliance info seriously means comprehending it first.

BoozerWasFouled
05-15-2010, 12:10 AM
You made the right choice, just for the wrong reason. What jk was pointing out is you are not allowed to approach a recruit and ask him questions. While it may sound silly, the rules are quite clear in the NCAA rule book. It would have been considered a minor recruiting violation against Duke.

No harm no foul since you wisely walked away.

Nope. Wrong. Not against the rules to approach and ask questions. If that were the case, everyone who runs a Duke premium service would be committing violations.

-jk
05-15-2010, 12:38 AM
If you want to contact a recruit, please contact Duke, first.

I can't speak to how watzone conducts business, but he does contact Duke.

Finally, and the crux of the matter: whether you agree with them or not, the ncaa makes the rules. We cannot abide anyone who advocates breaking them.

Regards,

-jk

BD80
05-15-2010, 01:13 AM
Nope. Wrong. Not against the rules to approach and ask questions. If that were the case, everyone who runs a Duke premium service would be committing violations.

Just out of curiosity, why would you challenge the point?

You are probably right, but why on earth would a Duke fan ever risk contacting a recruit, no matter how serendipitous the meeting? What possible good could come from it? What could a Duke fan say to an 18 year old kid that would improve Duke's status? Do you really think you could get information from him that he is unwilling to tell the recruiting gurus?

Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should.

kong123
05-15-2010, 06:58 AM
Just out of curiosity, why would you challenge the point?

You are probably right, but why on earth would a Duke fan ever risk contacting a recruit, no matter how serendipitous the meeting? What possible good could come from it? What could a Duke fan say to an 18 year old kid that would improve Duke's status? Do you really think you could get information from him that he is unwilling to tell the recruiting gurus?

Just because you can, it doesn't mean you should.


Roy is gonna turn you into the NCAA

devildeac
05-15-2010, 07:38 AM
Roy is gonna turn you into the NCAA

Now THAT truly represents a good sense of humor/wit, especially originating from a unc fan:D. Seriously.

wilko
05-15-2010, 09:02 AM
Now THAT truly represents a good sense of humor/wit, especially originating from a unc fan:D. Seriously.

MOST of the UNC fans I know, would be trying to figure out how to call Roy to tell him personally.. Im not so sure he was kidding.

Newton_14
05-15-2010, 09:36 AM
Nope. Wrong. Not against the rules to approach and ask questions. If that were the case, everyone who runs a Duke premium service would be committing violations.

Sorry but you are wrong. Below is a post from the Compliance Sticky at the top of the board. I "comprehend" pretty well actually what those rules state.

Watzone gets a pass because he is considered a member of the Media. He has privileges that we do not.

We are not allowed to contact recruits, period.

Here is a portion of the info from the Compliance Thread:


We offer this link as a reminder that boosters need to stay away from recruits! You're considered a "booster" if you're an alum or fan or otherwise connected to Duke. As "this is a fan's joint," most of y'all are boosters.

Some of you have suggested contacting recruits. Don't! Perhaps follow them on Twitter, but don't "friend" them on Facebook.

Fans, Friends & Alumni Compliance Information

A few highlights:

Only coaches and authorized athletic staff members may participate in recruiting activities.

DONíT call or write letters to a prospect.
DONíT initiate contact with a prospect or a prospectís parents or relatives.
DONíT visit a prospectís educational institution.
DONíT contact a prospect's coach, principal, or counselor.
DONíT provide gifts.
DONíT arrange employment.
Here is the link to the NCAA Rule on this as listed on GoDuke.com:
http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&KEY=&ATCLID=1515167&SPID=2387&SPID=106797

devildeac
05-15-2010, 09:41 AM
MOST of the UNC fans I know, would be trying to figure out how to call Roy to tell him personally.. Im not so sure he was kidding.

I thought he was referring to the discussion of ol' roy and his turning UF in when he was at KU and how nothing came of that. Then he kiddingly suggested that he would turn one of our posters in for thinking about talking to young Mr. Rivers. I took it with a bit of amusement. But, OTOH, you may be right...
:rolleyes:;)

kong123
05-15-2010, 10:09 AM
I thought he was referring to the discussion of ol' roy and his turning UF in when he was at KU and how nothing came of that. Then he kiddingly suggested that he would turn one of our posters in for thinking about talking to young Mr. Rivers. I took it with a bit of amusement. But, OTOH, you may be right...
:rolleyes:;)

no, you are right, it was a call back joke. looks like not all Duke fans have a good sense of humor.

oldnavy
05-15-2010, 11:18 AM
Is that scale with or without mortar?

Very good question. Actually the wide variability of "motar space" is why the US did not convert to the cinderblock system of measurement back in the late 70's.

oldnavy
05-15-2010, 11:20 AM
Normal gerbils or violent gerbils? Violent gerbils tend to be a little bigger so that would impact the scale.


PS- Sorry, I couldn't resist.

African gerbils or European gerbils?

PS- I understand the not being able to resist feeling!

devildeac
05-15-2010, 12:39 PM
I thought he was referring to the discussion of ol' roy and his turning UF in when he was at KU and how nothing came of that. Then he kiddingly suggested that he would turn one of our posters in for thinking about talking to young Mr. Rivers. I took it with a bit of amusement. But, OTOH, you may be right...
:rolleyes:;)


no, you are right, it was a call back joke. looks like not all Duke fans have a good sense of humor.

Every once in a while I get accused of having a good sense of humor and, on even rarer occasions, folks are correct:o.

Now, about those "thought police" violations and Mr. Rivers:rolleyes:.

BD80
05-15-2010, 01:40 PM
Very good question. Actually the wide variability of "mortar space" is why the US did not convert to the cinderblock system of measurement back in the late 70's.

Not true at all, that was a smokescreen, the "official" excuse. What the government didn't want to admit is that the cinderblock system was an all too transarent attempt to convert us to the metric system. We knew. We knew.

oldnavy
05-16-2010, 07:01 AM
Not true at all, that was a smokescreen, the "official" excuse. What the government didn't want to admit is that the cinderblock system was an all too transarent attempt to convert us to the metric system. We knew. We knew.

You are very perceptive BD80. Perhaps a bit too perceptive... Are you an ex-Department of Weights and Measurements agent gone rouge? :cool:

CameronBornAndBred
05-16-2010, 08:07 AM
You are very perceptive BD80. Perhaps a bit too perceptive... Are you an ex-Department of Weights and Measurements agent gone rouge? :cool:

Only if he's wearing makeup. :D

SupaDave
05-16-2010, 11:38 AM
Back to Austin, reports are that he went bananas in Houston this weekend. I'll see if I can get some kind of stats.

Newton_14
05-16-2010, 11:47 AM
Back to Austin, reports are that he went bananas in Houston this weekend. I'll see if I can get some kind of stats.

The article linked on the front page today makes the statement that Austin is more athletic than J-Will. Do you see that?

I have seen him on TV numerous times now and while I am very impressed with him, I am not sure I can agree with that statement.

Your thoughts?

SupaDave
05-16-2010, 12:11 PM
The article linked on the front page today makes the statement that Austin is more athletic than J-Will. Do you see that?

I have seen him on TV numerous times now and while I am very impressed with him, I am not sure I can agree with that statement.

Your thoughts?

I think the writer in that article is embellishing a little. J. Will was a much stronger player than Austin is now and even as frosh J. Will could man up against larger players. But I know what he's getting at and part of that is just that today's players are simply more advanced at the elite levels - and Austin is elite. Also, Austin has bounce but b/c of his frame it probably makes it look like he should NOT be doing what he's doing.

One thing you should all know is that playing basketball in Houston is a different experience. It's a freakishly delightful experience. If you never have you should check out Houston's Fondee summer league. Oh my.

Remember when we played Baylor? Yeah - EVERYONE in Houston plays like that. The athletes are all long, quick, and skilled - with tremendous bounce.

For Austin to excel in this city bodes very well for his future.

As a little background, I'm from a bball family like many of you. When I lived in Houston my cousin was playing in the WNBA so we spent a lot of time at the Houston Rockets practice facility. Her younger brother played at McMurray State. I personally worked out with Kentucky's Roderick Rhodes everyday when he was new to the league. TJ Ford and Charlie Ward are family friends. Houston is my thing. And we have more on the way, my baby cousin just transferred from St. Thomas to Dulles and he attends work-outs with John Lucas - who is of course from my hometown - Durham.

I've seen many incredible things at Lucas' workouts (and I've had the pleasure of watching him workout folks back to when Rod and I worked out together) but they are special in the fact that Lucas will occasionally work out the young up and coming players with the NBA players.

You really get a chance to see what kind of balls these kids have when they play a 5 on 5 on 5. I have seen Damon Stoudamire make an otherwise COCKY 9th grade player (who had just finished calling some other players "scrubs" to me and his mom) literally nearly piss himself and lose all confidence. And to bring it back to Austin - from what I know, he would be right at home no matter who is on the court.

ElSid
05-16-2010, 01:15 PM
The article linked on the front page today makes the statement that Austin is more athletic than J-Will. Do you see that?

I have seen him on TV numerous times now and while I am very impressed with him, I am not sure I can agree with that statement.

Your thoughts?

you really can't take anything you read on bleacher report seriously.

SupaDave
05-16-2010, 01:38 PM
you really can't take anything you read on bleacher report seriously.

It all depends on the content. The BR has provided some good info.

ElSid
05-16-2010, 01:50 PM
It all depends on the content. The BR has provided some good info.

I suppose. Can't say it never provides anything useful.

But the Carrick Felix article just sounds goofy. "Everyone was excited about Kyle Singler coming back except for Carrick Felix"? Maybe. But that's a stupid line. The article also says just about nothing about the guy.

The Houston article is better because it sounds like the author was actually there.

hedevil
05-16-2010, 02:28 PM
I hope we land Quincy regardless of his recent struggles. However, on the positive side, I'm relieved to know that if he should choose Kentucky, or elsewhere, Duke has guys like Carrick and Joshua who could give him (Quincy) similar match up problems as some of the guys in Houston seem to have given him.

Sounds like Austin is the real deal (no surprise). Good to see he is doing so well. I really hate the fact that people are reporting Austin as a dukie. This kid can still choose to go anywhere he pleases, and this only feeds to the appearance that Duke is missing out on a kid that was Duke's to lose. Nothing could be further from the truth. I hope Duke lands Austin, but nothing's etched in stone until River's says so.

Big Pappa
05-16-2010, 03:21 PM
I hope we land Quincy regardless of his recent struggles. However, on the positive side, I'm relieved to know that if he should choose Kentucky, or elsewhere, Duke has guys like Carrick and Joshua who could give him (Quincy) similar match up problems as some of the guys in Houston seem to have given him.

Sounds like Austin is the real deal (no surprise). Good to see he is doing so well. I really hate the fact that people are reporting Austin as a dukie. This kid can still choose to go anywhere he pleases, and this only feeds to the appearance that Duke is missing out on a kid that was Duke's to lose. Nothing could be further from the truth. I hope Duke lands Austin, but nothing's etched in stone until River's says so.

Good point and although Q is struggling its not like great players don't struggle. Kyle had a really rough first half of the season (I know the wrist played a major factor) and finished it out great. No reason to think he is having anything other than a tough couple of days.

I also am a little uncomfortable with people declaring Austin a Dukie already when he hasn't committed and it has been reported that Doc wants him to wait until the spring. IMO there is no reason to do that to Austin or Duke when Austin hasn't said anything definitive yet.

duketaylor
05-17-2010, 12:12 AM
Austin will commit soon enough, not to worry.

Dukefan4Life
05-17-2010, 12:16 AM
I sure hope you are right! I just hope its to us :D

BD80
05-17-2010, 12:38 AM
Austin will commit soon enough, not to worry.

It's his Dad's fault isn't it??

Doc keeps coaching the C's to victory after underdog victory, and Austin is waiting for his Dad's season to be over so they can confab before he commits?

That's the reason Rasheed is finally playing basketball again, just to delay good news for Duke. The bastard!

COYS
05-17-2010, 12:44 AM
That's the reason Rasheed is finally playing basketball again, just to delay good news for Duke. The bastard!

I KNEW it couldn't be for any rational reason that 'Sheed decided to start playing again. Thanks for pointing out the obvious, BD.

duketaylor
05-17-2010, 12:49 AM
It is my understanding that the Celtics season is the issue. Patience.

Jderf
05-17-2010, 01:10 AM
It is my understanding that the Celtics season is the issue. Patience.

Wait, help me out here. I'm not following. Why exactly would his dad's season affect the timeline for his decision?

MisterRoddy
05-17-2010, 01:11 AM
Wait, help me out here. I'm not following. Why exactly would his dad's season affect the timeline for his decision?

Maybe wants his dad to come with him on some visits or maybe wants to deliberate with his college decision with his dad more (obviosuly, his dad doesnt really have the time right now)

hedevil
05-17-2010, 01:31 AM
Well now I'm going for Orlando twice as much as before. Because of JJ, and to free up Doc's time sooner. Darn it! Orlando's still 4 wins away.:eek:

Big Pappa
05-17-2010, 01:39 AM
It's his Dad's fault isn't it??

Doc keeps coaching the C's to victory after underdog victory, and Austin is waiting for his Dad's season to be over so they can confab before he commits?

That's the reason Rasheed is finally playing basketball again, just to delay good news for Duke. The bastard!


I KNEW it couldn't be for any rational reason that 'Sheed decided to start playing again. Thanks for pointing out the obvious, BD.

That is it, I just hope VC isn't in on it too.

peblnh8
05-17-2010, 03:00 AM
page 73... just wow.

Olympic Fan
05-17-2010, 10:14 AM
you really can't take anything you read on bleacher report seriously.

To me, the bleacher report has about as much credibility as something I would read on a message board -- in other words, it might be right, but I wouldn't count on it.

It is a fan driven site. The people writing the articles there may be knowledgeable or they may not be (such as the posters on this and any other message board may or may not be credible).

That's not to say that the established media is always credible, but MOST of them have some standards and over the years, you can get a sense or who is credible (such as Jeff Goodman or Dick Weiss) and who is not (Greg Doyel!).

MisterRoddy
05-17-2010, 10:48 PM
To me, the bleacher report has about as much credibility as something I would read on a message board -- in other words, it might be right, but I wouldn't count on it.

It is a fan driven site. The people writing the articles there may be knowledgeable or they may not be (such as the posters on this and any other message board may or may not be credible).

That's not to say that the established media is always credible, but MOST of them have some standards and over the years, you can get a sense or who is credible (such as Jeff Goodman or Dick Weiss) and who is not (Greg Doyel!).

I think BR is more suited for things that aren't considered "news" such as: Season previews; Lists (like top 25 Duke players, etc.); Reviews of the team or a player, I wouldn't say it's flat out useless because I've found many articles that I actually enjoyed reading from that site. I just wouldn't get my "breaking news" from there though.

Big Pappa
05-17-2010, 11:13 PM
To me, the bleacher report has about as much credibility as something I would read on a message board -- in other words, it might be right, but I wouldn't count on it.

It is a fan driven site. The people writing the articles there may be knowledgeable or they may not be (such as the posters on this and any other message board may or may not be credible).

That's not to say that the established media is always credible, but MOST of them have some standards and over the years, you can get a sense or who is credible (such as Jeff Goodman or Dick Weiss) and who is not (Greg Doyel!).


I think BR is more suited for things that aren't considered "news" such as: Season previews; Lists (like top 25 Duke players, etc.); Reviews of the team or a player, I wouldn't say it's flat out useless because I've found many articles that I actually enjoyed reading from that site. I just wouldn't get my "breaking news" from there though.

Both of these are fair analyses. I often find very enjoyable reads on the BR as I do on the DBR. I have other sources I check for news, other sources I check for stats, and other sources I check for entertainment. BR falls into the third category.

rotogod00
05-18-2010, 08:28 AM
Another glowing report on Rivers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5194440

nyr484
05-18-2010, 09:53 AM
Another glowing report on Rivers:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=5194440

"He can loose his focus"... I think I just threw up a little in my mouth.

gwlaw99
05-18-2010, 12:04 PM
A writer at bleacher report says (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/392639-dukes-austin-rivers-and-other-top-prospects-at-the-nike-eybl-tournament)Austin Rivers is comming to Duke. Who knows if this is the truth or not, but in the comments section he says he is certain. I am taking this with a big grain of salt.

CrazieDUMB
05-18-2010, 12:16 PM
His only justification is "seriously guys, i was at the tournament." Give me a break. Nice to hear, but it sounds like this guy's claim is completely baseless. Let's hope at least he's right.

UrinalCake
05-18-2010, 12:23 PM
I'm also taking everything with a grain of salt. Perhaps I'm misreading his sentence, but it sounds like the author is suggesting that if Rivers comes and Irving stays for his sophomore year, he would be moved to shooting guard so that Rivers could play point. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense. Is Rivers projected to be a PG in college?

ElSid
05-18-2010, 12:24 PM
This article is posted already in the Austin Rivers Smoke and Fire thread.

It's not considered reliable at all for the news.

And, no, just about everything I've read would put Rivers at the 2 with Kyrie at the 1.

Duvall
05-18-2010, 12:25 PM
The Bleacher Report is a menace. It cloaks message board idiocy with an unearned authority - after all, it *looks* like a news report, doesn't it?

Osiagledknarf
05-18-2010, 12:30 PM
You just have to look at the article and it will tell you how baseball it is, "Duke's Austin Rivers" Did he commit? No. This is all speculation and all hogwash at this point. Is his Duke his leader? Yes. Has he commited? No. The Bleacher report throws a lot of this stuff out there that is completely false or not confirmed.

Like when they reported a few weeks back that Austin Rivers would choose his college choice in a "couple of weeks" and it would be between Duke and Florida.

I do not take the Bleacher Report seriously at all. So take this with a grain of salt and don't take anything seriously from this.

BTW, the title of this thread is sorta confusing. I didn't see anywhere in that article where it says "nothing close to official"

striker219
05-18-2010, 12:38 PM
A writer at bleacher report says (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/392639-dukes-austin-rivers-and-other-top-prospects-at-the-nike-eybl-tournament)Austin Rivers is comming to Duke. Who knows if this is the truth or not, but in the comments section he says he is certain. I am taking this with a big grain of salt.

I have one you can borrow.

http://www.highviewsaltsupplies.co.uk/SaltCrystaUSGOV.jpg

El_Diablo
05-18-2010, 12:44 PM
I have one you can borrow.

http://www.highviewsaltsupplies.co.uk/SaltCrystaUSGOV.jpg

This grain of salt was actually culled from one of Brian Zoubek's tears.

They had to remove it surgically from his tear duct though...since Brian Zoubek has never cried.

billyj
05-18-2010, 01:45 PM
What is that salt's wingspan measured in cinder blocks?

By the time this is over, this will be the longest thread ever!

SilkyJ
05-18-2010, 02:05 PM
What is that salt's wingspan measured in cinder blocks?

By the time this is over, this will be the longest thread ever!

Trick question. Grains of salt removed from Brian Zoubek are in fact cinder blocks themselves.

Cockabeau
05-18-2010, 02:42 PM
Bleacher report:( Why does DBR constantly link to that blog?

CameronBornAndBred
05-18-2010, 02:54 PM
Bleacher report:( Why does DBR constantly link to that blog?
I was surprised to see them reference them on the front page, especially when they discourage so hard against rumors in the forums. I have very rarely ever seen any actual facts given on BR, at least not that weren't known already. If it ain't sourced, it's a rumor, plain and simple.

SupaDave
05-18-2010, 02:59 PM
I was surprised to see them reference them on the front page, especially when they discourage so hard against rumors in the forums. I have very rarely ever seen any actual facts given on BR, at least not that weren't known already. If it ain't sourced, it's a rumor, plain and simple.

Slow basketball news cycle. It helps when our posters do a little internet mining as well.

oldnavy
05-19-2010, 07:14 AM
What is that salt's wingspan measured in cinder blocks?

By the time this is over, this will be the longest thread ever!

Another reason the cinder block measurement did not catch on, you must photograph your object to be measured in front of a cinder block wall... not always practical... Hence the "place a penny in front of the item" measurement system used in this photo. Not nearly as accurate as the cinder block method, but much easier to tote a penny around than a cinder block wall. ;)

camion
05-19-2010, 07:29 AM
Another reason the cinder block measurement did not catch on, you must photograph your object to be measured in front of a cinder block wall... not always practical... Hence the "place a penny in front of the item" measurement system used in this photo. Not nearly as accurate as the cinder block method, but much easier to tote a penny around than a cinder block wall. ;)

Unless you're Brian Zoubek and you ARE a cinder block wall. :p

airowe
05-19-2010, 02:04 PM
http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/05/19/coach-duke-leading-for-austin-rivers/

CameronBornAndBred
05-19-2010, 02:08 PM
http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/05/19/coach-duke-leading-for-austin-rivers/



He said no dates have yet been set for visits to North Carolina, Kansas or Kentucky.
ďIím not sure when theyíre going to visit North Carolina. [It will be] before the summer ends,Ē Joseph said.

So you can count out any announcement just bacause the Celtics lose. (If they were to lose early)

airowe
05-19-2010, 02:10 PM
So you can count out any announcement just bacause the Celtics lose. (If they were to lose early)

The process would certainly start earlier though. Doc will go on visits with Austin once the C's season is over...

ElSid
05-19-2010, 02:17 PM
The process would certainly start earlier though. Doc will go on visits with Austin once the C's season is over...

The c's are in it to win it so this isn't going to happen any time soon.

Good to get another recent article suggesting he's a Duke lean, though. Gotta count for something to have his AAU coach saying so.

DukeBlueNV
05-19-2010, 02:48 PM
ďWhen you go visit Duke youíre like why the hell would I go anywhere else?Ē

if only everyone we recruit thought this! i assume this statement is his coach explaining what is going through austin's head right now... im a still a little nervous about his recruitment because honestly austin seems a little impulsive. commiting to florida so early and declaring duke his leader after being swept-up in the emotion of the banquet night (who can blame him), so hopefully he doesnt get caught up in anything when visiting these other programs. but im sure doc will be there to keep his head level. hopefully after a few other visits then a (third?) visit to duke with his dad and i think K could wrap it up.

ElSid
05-19-2010, 03:02 PM
ďWhen you go visit Duke youíre like why the hell would I go anywhere else?Ē

if only everyone we recruit thought this! i assume this statement is his coach explaining what is going through austin's head right now... im a still a little nervous about his recruitment because honestly austin seems a little impulsive. commiting to florida so early and declaring duke his leader after being swept-up in the emotion of the banquet night (who can blame him), so hopefully he doesnt get caught up in anything when visiting these other programs. but im sure doc will be there to keep his head level. hopefully after a few other visits then a (third?) visit to duke with his dad and i think K could wrap it up.

it would hardly be being "swept up". the banquet was one event in a long process of courting and being courted by duke. going to duke at this point would be the least impulsive of his options.

Osiagledknarf
05-19-2010, 03:53 PM
Looking and seeing that Justin Knox is very close to UNC and they have an offer for Kareem Jack, assuming he go there, they would not have a scholly to offer Rivers in the time frame where he saying he will commit which is before his senior season. Good sign for us.

Kedsy
05-19-2010, 04:12 PM
Looking and seeing that Justin Knox is very close to UNC and they have an offer for Kareem Jack, assuming he go there, they would not have a scholly to offer Rivers in the time frame where he saying he will commit which is before his senior season. Good sign for us.

It is neither a good sign or any other kind of sign. They can offer the scholarship and undoubtedly will. If he accepts (heaven forbid) and they end up with too many on scholarship they'd deal with it when they have to. You can feel pretty confident that Austin Rivers's scholarship would end up being honored.

Channing
05-19-2010, 04:15 PM
Looking and seeing that Justin Knox is very close to UNC and they have an offer for Kareem Jack, assuming he go there, they would not have a scholly to offer Rivers in the time frame where he saying he will commit which is before his senior season. Good sign for us.

Justin Knox only has one year of eligibility. He will be like a graduating senior next year, meaning that his scholly automatically opens up after next season (I believe).

Osiagledknarf
05-19-2010, 04:16 PM
It is neither a good sign or any other kind of sign. They can offer the scholarship and undoubtedly will. If he accepts (heaven forbid) and they end up with too many on scholarship they'd deal with it when they have to. You can feel pretty confident that Austin Rivers's scholarship would end up being honored.

You can't offer something you don't have. UNC won't have a scholly to offer him if they commit another player before the may 28th deadline. They can't do it, it is that plain and simple.

Osiagledknarf
05-19-2010, 04:19 PM
Justin Knox only has one year of eligibility. He will be like a graduating senior next year, meaning that his scholly automatically opens up after next season (I believe).

Yes, but Rivers has already said that he will be commiting before his senior season which means if that timetable is accurate, they will not have a scholly at that time to offer him. So if they commit him and Jack, they are virtually out of this race unless someone else transfers.

airowe
05-19-2010, 04:19 PM
You can't offer something you don't have. UNC won't have a scholly to offer him if they commit another player before the may 28th deadline. They can't do it, it is that plain and simple.

They did it two years ago with the incoming Class of 2011.

airowe
05-19-2010, 04:20 PM
Yes, but Rivers has already said that he will be commiting before his senior season which means if that timetable is accurate, they will not have a scholly at that time to offer him. So if they commit him and Jack, they are virtually out of this race unless someone else transfers.

Yet they already know that he won't be there.

Osiagledknarf
05-19-2010, 04:25 PM
Yet they already know that he won't be there.

Who?

Getting to your point above... As of right now, if they do in fact commit Jack and Knox, they would have only one scholly at the end of the year. Possilby more with guys like Henson and Barnes would go bolt for the NBA. What I am saying is that UNC cannot offer Rivers if these two guys commit, and it is very unlikely that Rivers would wait till after his senior year to commit when he has said multiple times that he would be like to commit before his senior season.

airowe
05-19-2010, 04:32 PM
Who?

Getting to your point above... As of right now, if they do in fact commit Jack and Knox, they would have only one scholly at the end of the year. Possilby more with guys like Henson and Barnes would go bolt for the NBA. What I am saying is that UNC cannot offer Rivers if these two guys commit, and it is very unlikely that Rivers would wait till after his senior year to commit when he has said multiple times that he would be like to commit before his senior season.

Justin Know graduated from Alabama in 3 years. He has one year of eligibility left. He will be gone after next year. Think of him as a senior.

Channing
05-19-2010, 04:56 PM
Who?

Getting to your point above... As of right now, if they do in fact commit Jack and Knox, they would have only one scholly at the end of the year. Possilby more with guys like Henson and Barnes would go bolt for the NBA. What I am saying is that UNC cannot offer Rivers if these two guys commit, and it is very unlikely that Rivers would wait till after his senior year to commit when he has said multiple times that he would be like to commit before his senior season.

Just because a team is maxed out on scholarships in for the 10/11 season does not mean they can't offer anybody from the 11/12 class. Justin Knox will not be there in 11/12. Therefore, UNC will have that scholarship open and available for a recruit, e.g., Austin Rivers.

nmduke2001
05-19-2010, 06:35 PM
Just because a team is maxed out on scholarships in for the 10/11 season does not mean they can't offer anybody from the 11/12 class. Justin Knox will not be there in 11/12. Therefore, UNC will have that scholarship open and available for a recruit, e.g., Austin Rivers.

I donít think it will be an issue if Austin really wants to go to a school without available scholarships. According to US NEWS, tuition to UNC is $22,294 for out of state students (http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/chapel-hill-nc/unc-2974). According to ESPN, Doc Rivers earns $5.5 million per year (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3579039). Unless there is a rule about paying your own way, I doubt the Rivers Family would care about $22,294. If I remember correctly, Lee Melchionni paid his own way for a year or two.

BD80
05-19-2010, 06:50 PM
You can't offer something you don't have. UNC won't have a scholly to offer him if they commit another player before the may 28th deadline. They can't do it, it is that plain and simple.

Absolutely wrong. All scholarships are renewable each year at the pleasure of the university. The only "committed" scholarships are those to incoming recruits who have signed a Letter of Intent. That is plain and simple.

Bluedog
05-19-2010, 06:54 PM
Absolutely wrong. All scholarships are renewable each year at the pleasure of the university. The only "committed" scholarships are those to incoming recruits who have signed a Letter of Intent. That is plain and simple.

But I'd think UNC would uphold their scholarship offers for four years....I mean, they aren't Kentucky. But who knows. And yeah, I'd think Rivers could pay if worse comes to worse. He has plenty of money.

G man
05-19-2010, 07:52 PM
I am surprised at some of the comments that have been made. I think we have some new followers to this thread. I could have swore that this came up a long time ago. I am pretty sure this is how it works. Like some other people have already said scholarships are only for a year at a time so in fact they could offer 10 new players if they wanted and kick the rest out (this wont happen but it is possible).

UNC current roster as follows! I have made bold those that will not be around for 2011-2012 Including those who I think will enter early and placed in Italics and bold. Knox and Jack
2010-2011 Roster
William Graves Sr.
Larry Drew Jr.
Justin Watts Jr.
Tyler Zeller Jr.
John Henson So.
Leslie McDonald So.
Dexter Strickland So.
Harrison Barnes Fr.
Reggie Bullock Fr.
Kendall Marshall Fr.
Knox Sr. status
Jack not sure on status sorry

That puts the total number up to 12 scholarships for this year they are guaranteed to lose at least 2 if know one goes early bringing them down to 10 then you add the additions of McAdoo and Hairston and you have one remaining spot for Austin that is of course no one else leaves, or transfers etc. We all think though that Barnes is gone for sure and most likely Henson if he plays like he did at the end of last year (he might decide to stay though if he continues his study of attractive females at UNC) he will probably follow. So stop worrying people they have the room, but it will not matter! Austin will be a Devil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CDu
05-19-2010, 08:05 PM
Who?

Getting to your point above... As of right now, if they do in fact commit Jack and Knox, they would have only one scholly at the end of the year. Possilby more with guys like Henson and Barnes would go bolt for the NBA. What I am saying is that UNC cannot offer Rivers if these two guys commit, and it is very unlikely that Rivers would wait till after his senior year to commit when he has said multiple times that he would be like to commit before his senior season.

Yes, they CAN offer Rivers even if both Knox and Jack commit to UNC. You don't have a limit on the number of offers you can have out at any time. You only have a limit on the number of scholarships given out in any given year. Knox will be a senior next year, and thus will be out of the picture by the time Rivers sets foot on campus. So at the very least, there will be a scholarship available when Rivers would be arriving. Therefore, there is no problem at all for UNC to offer Rivers a scholarship now.

Technically, they could still extend an offer Rivers right now even if they didn't have a scholarship to offer for the 2011-2012 season. I'm pretty sure Kentucky did this just last year. This could be considered poor form, but they could do it. There's no reason you can't have more guys committed than you have scholarships. You just have to figure out a way to either get rid of players (which is what Calipari did, or could be accomplished by early-entry) or take scholarships away from players (which would be really mean).

Since Knox is off the books either way, this last paragraph is irrelevant. But there is absolutely nothing that prevents UNC from offering Rivers a scholarship right now. And if Rivers wanted to do so (let's hope he doesn't want to), there's nothing in the rules preventing him from accepting such an offer.

Here's hoping that it becomes a moot point and Rivers commits to Duke anyway!

CDu
05-19-2010, 08:13 PM
You can't offer something you don't have. UNC won't have a scholly to offer him if they commit another player before the may 28th deadline. They can't do it, it is that plain and simple.

Technically, this is incorrect, even if they didn't have available space. Scholarships are not guaranteed - they are annual offers that may be (and generally are) renewed each year. So, while it would be poor form, UNC could take a scholarship away from another player if they wanted to do so to make room for someone else. It's poor form, but it happens occasionally. I'd doubt you'd see it done at a school like UNC or Duke, though.

But regardless, it's irrelevant, because your premise is wrong. UNC has the scholarship available to offer. Right now, they have two scholarships available for the 2011-2012 season. If Jack commits, they'll still have one available scholarship for the 2011-2012 season. Whether or not Knox commits is irrelevant, as he'll be a college senior (in terms of basketball eligibility) next year and thus long gone by the 2011-2012 season. So at the very least, they'll have one scholarship available. That's all they need.

All the talk of whether or not Rivers could afford to pay his own way is irrelevant. He wouldn't have to do so.

kong123
05-19-2010, 08:22 PM
Who?

Getting to your point above... As of right now, if they do in fact commit Jack and Knox, they would have only one scholly at the end of the year. Possilby more with guys like Henson and Barnes would go bolt for the NBA. What I am saying is that UNC cannot offer Rivers if these two guys commit, and it is very unlikely that Rivers would wait till after his senior year to commit when he has said multiple times that he would be like to commit before his senior season.

this is embarrassing.

also, I imagine if Rivers is successfully recruited, there will be a transfer or two.