PDA

View Full Version : Austin Rivers - where there is smoke, there is fire



Pages : 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 [11] 12 13

CharlestonDevil
08-31-2010, 03:58 PM
:

:eek::confused::eek:I wanna know what that's an answer to!;)

Could it perhaps be the answer to "Who all do you know will be at CTC?" That would be nice...

Kabongo attending CTC would be...well... um... interesting. But they can't all play together we don't have enough scholarships. So the tweet must be incomplete or mean something else.

airowe
08-31-2010, 04:43 PM
Just a sprain for Rivers: http://www.dukehoopblog.com/2010/08/31/austin-rivers-injury-update-just-a-sprain/

Kedsy
08-31-2010, 05:32 PM
Yeah. That must not be all of the tweet.

It is the whole tweet, at least from TheDevilsDen. I looked it up. I assume it is a quote from a premium article and TheDevilsDen is teasing on twitter, hoping to get some subscribers.


Kabongo attending CTC would be...well... um... interesting. But they can't all play together we don't have enough scholarships. So the tweet must be incomplete or mean something else.

Well, they could all play together if just one of our current underclassmen leave after the season, so it's not completely far-fetched. Having said that, I'll be shocked if those four guys are all wearing Duke uniforms in 2011.

JasonEvans
09-01-2010, 10:25 AM
Certainly they weren't referencing playing college ball together.

There has been a lot of talk in recruiting circles that Myck Kabongo may decommit from Texas and that he is interested in coming to Duke. I do not subscribe to any premium services, but I think there is a real buzz about it out there.

It would appear this tweet is Rivers alluding to what may be a super-class in 2011 for Duke with Austin Rivers (#1), Q Miller (top 5), Kabongo (top 25), and Gibinije (top 30). I am not sure how likely it is and wonder a bit about Kabongo coming to Duke at the same time as Rivers (though Duke can certainly play 2 PGs at the same time, especially a kid like Austin who is more a combo guard than a true point). Still, astute followers of Duke recruiting see Rivers' tweet and love the implication in it.

I would not worry about the potential scholarship crunch. I am sure Duke will figure out a way to make it all work.

--Jason "Rivers is, of course, the top priority here!" Evans

DukeSean
09-01-2010, 10:34 AM
I would not worry about the potential scholarship crunch. I am sure Duke will figure out a way to make it all work.


Since finances are obviously not an issue for him...

Austin Rivers: walk on

OldPhiKap
09-01-2010, 10:50 AM
It would appear this tweet is Rivers alluding to what may be a super-class in 2011 for Duke with Austin Rivers (#1), Q Miller (top 5), Kabongo (top 25), and Gibinije (top 30).

Funny how a NC can change things. Two years ago, K was washed up and Roy was the recruiting force in the conference.

It's true. I read it on an internet board.



In all seriousness, the energy and passion that K showed over last year was absolutely off the chart. How can you NOT want to play for him?

Class of '94
09-01-2010, 11:28 AM
There has been a lot of talk in recruiting circles that Myck Kabongo may decommit from Texas and that he is interested in coming to Duke. I do not subscribe to any premium services, but I think there is a real buzz about it out there.

It would appear this tweet is Rivers alluding to what may be a super-class in 2011 for Duke with Austin Rivers (#1), Q Miller (top 5), Kabongo (top 25), and Gibinije (top 30). I am not sure how likely it is and wonder a bit about Kabongo coming to Duke at the same time as Rivers (though Duke can certainly play 2 PGs at the same time, especially a kid like Austin who is more a combo guard than a true point). Still, astute followers of Duke recruiting see Rivers' tweet and love the implication in it.

I would not worry about the potential scholarship crunch. I am sure Duke will figure out a way to make it all work.

--Jason "Rivers is, of course, the top priority here!" Evans

A quick sidenote to all of this, Would we really want Kabongo over a player like Cook if the possibility of our 2011 class could include Kabongo (if he did decid to decommit)? I like Quinn a lot becuase of the skills he brings to the table (pass first mentality) and the fact that he apparently expressed a geniune desire to come to Duke early on as opposed to Kabongo who might be interested in Duke simply because of wanting to play with Rivers. And from a skill set perspective, it seems that Quinn and Rivers in the backcour might be a better fit than Kabongo and Rivers. Again, all of this just my opinion based on the above scenario possibly (I think it's a long shot IMO) happening.

flyingdutchdevil
09-01-2010, 11:32 AM
Having Myck Kabongo and Mike Gbinije on the same team would beat out Tweety Carter and LaceDarius Dunn as the greatest name duo in college basketball history.

jimrowe0
09-01-2010, 11:43 AM
A quick sidenote to all of this, Would we really want Kabongo over a player like Cook if the possibility of our 2011 class could include Kabongo (if he did decid to decommit)? I like Quinn a lot becuase of the skills he brings to the table (pass first mentality) and the fact that he apparently expressed a geniune desire to come to Duke early on as opposed to Kabongo who might be interested in Duke simply because of wanting to play with Rivers. And from a skill set perspective, it seems that Quinn and Rivers in the backcour might be a better fit than Kabongo and Rivers. Again, all of this just my opinion based on the above scenario possibly (I think it's a long shot IMO) happening.


Personally, I have watched both Quinn and Kabongo several times and would take Kabongo because he is a better play-maker (also very good passer). Although I don't foresee this being a possibility at all because Kabongo will stay at Texas.

MisterRoddy
09-01-2010, 11:45 AM
Personally, I have watched both Quinn and Kabongo several times and would take Kabongo because he is a better play-maker (also very good passer). Although I don't foresee this being a possibility at all because Kabongo will stay at Texas.

There's no doubt that Kabongo is the better player. The attractive thing about Quinn is that he's most likely a 3-4 year player whereas Kabongo is a good candidate to be one-and-done.

ChillinDuke
09-01-2010, 11:47 AM
As extremely unlikely as it seems that Duke would land that outstanding 4-pack of players, does anyone think such a move would drastically oppose Duke's "typical" recruiting philosophy? Specifically, I would guess that Rivers, Miller, and maybe even Kabongo would shoot to be OaD (not definitely, but pretty likely). Heck, even Gbinije commented about being OaD in his video with James McAdont.

...Don't really like that kind of turnover on the team (and very atypical at Duke).

All of this is outrageously unlikely and probably all a mute point. But still twiddling my thumbs waiting for October!

roywhite
09-01-2010, 11:59 AM
There has been a lot of talk in recruiting circles that Myck Kabongo may decommit from Texas and that he is interested in coming to Duke. I do not subscribe to any premium services, but I think there is a real buzz about it out there.

It would appear this tweet is Rivers alluding to what may be a super-class in 2011 for Duke with Austin Rivers (#1), Q Miller (top 5), Kabongo (top 25), and Gibinije (top 30). I am not sure how likely it is and wonder a bit about Kabongo coming to Duke at the same time as Rivers (though Duke can certainly play 2 PGs at the same time, especially a kid like Austin who is more a combo guard than a true point). Still, astute followers of Duke recruiting see Rivers' tweet and love the implication in it.

I would not worry about the potential scholarship crunch. I am sure Duke will figure out a way to make it all work.

--Jason "Rivers is, of course, the top priority here!" Evans


Interesting speculation at this point.

Just my opinion, but I'm not crazy about a Kentucky-style "super class" where as many as 3 or more players consider themselves one-and-done, with a brief stop on their way to the League.

Seems to me that Austin and Quincy think of themselves as one-year guys, and maybe Kabongo, too?
Just my preference, but I'd like to see Duke with no more than one such player in a given recruiting class.

Bluedog
09-01-2010, 12:00 PM
Since finances are obviously not an issue for him...

Austin Rivers: walk on

haha, can you imagine that? I mean, that would technically be allowed, right? Not that I think it will come to that, but I'd bet Rivers wouldn't mind paying his way if it allowed him to play with an additional top-flight player. $40k for Doc isn't so much when you're making $5m/year.

On another note, I agree with the person above who said the list likely refers to those recruits planning on attending Countdown to Craziness.

MisterRoddy
09-01-2010, 12:01 PM
haha, can you imagine that? I mean, that would technically be allowed, right? Not that I think it will come to that, but I'd bet Rivers wouldn't mind paying his way if it allowed him to play with an additional top-flight player. $40k for Doc isn't so much when you're making $5m/year.

I hope you are all joking.

Bluedog
09-01-2010, 12:04 PM
I hope you are all joking.

I'm 85% joking. ;) This new winky face isn't winky enough...Looks more smiley.

OldPhiKap
09-01-2010, 12:05 PM
I'm 85% joking. ;) This new winky face isn't winky enough...Looks more smiley.

Is that like being "mostly dead"?

Daniel tosh
09-01-2010, 12:10 PM
From what I have seen Kabongo has a similar type of game to Kyries'(playmaker scorer great court vision and good leadership.Does anyone else seethis?

JasonEvans
09-01-2010, 12:18 PM
As extremely unlikely as it seems that Duke would land that outstanding 4-pack of players, does anyone think such a move would drastically oppose Duke's "typical" recruiting philosophy? Specifically, I would guess that Rivers, Miller, and maybe even Kabongo would shoot to be OaD (not definitely, but pretty likely). Heck, even Gbinije commented about being OaD in his video with James McAdont.

...Don't really like that kind of turnover on the team (and very atypical at Duke).

All of this is outrageously unlikely and probably all a mute point. But still twiddling my thumbs waiting for October!

A ton of kids talk about being OaD in high school -- heck, you must not be very good if you don't talk about it. The number who actually end up being good enough to do it tends to be much, much smaller.

In 2010, there were 7 OaD players taken in the first round. 3 more went in the 2nd round for a total of 10 drafted freshmen. Several of those were likely kids who made a mistake and overvalued their stock. Had those kids been at Duke, they would have gotten the good advice not to turn pro yet.

In 2009, we had 4 freshmen drafted in the first round. There were none in the second round.

2008 saw 11 go in the first round, a stunning figure. 2 more went in the 2nd round.

In 2007, 7 freshmen turned pro and got drafted in the first round. None were picked in the second round.

So, it is pretty clear that about 8 or 9 kids per year turn pro after only playing one season of college ball, a least a couple of whom are making big mistakes. It is probably safe to put the "smart move" kids in the range of 4 or 5.

So, a kid who is rated in the top 5 or maybe top 10 coming out of high school would seem to be a good candidate to turn pro. Only QMiller and Rivers fall into that category among the kids Duke is recruiting for 2011. Kabongo and Gbinije may mention it in some interviews, but the odds they would be good enough to do it may be slim. I think your worries that Duke is transforming into a Kentucky with lots of one-and-done kids and no upperclassmen are unfounded.

--Jason "I hate to pull this card out, but I think we should largely trust in K about stuff like this ;) " Evans

JasonEvans
09-01-2010, 12:21 PM
Is that like being "mostly dead"?

He clearly said, "To blave."

--Jason "http://southdakotapolitics.blogs.com/.a/6a00d8341c046f53ef01156fc531ce970c-800wi" Evans

Kedsy
09-01-2010, 12:31 PM
A ton of kids talk about being OaD in high school -- heck, you must not be very good if you don't talk about it. The number who actually end up being good enough to do it tends to be much, much smaller.

* * *

So, it is pretty clear that about 8 or 9 kids per year turn pro after only playing one season of college ball, a least a couple of whom are making big mistakes. It is probably safe to put the "smart move" kids in the range of 4 or 5.

So, a kid who is rated in the top 5 or maybe top 10 coming out of high school would seem to be a good candidate to turn pro. Only QMiller and Rivers fall into that category among the kids Duke is recruiting for 2011. Kabongo and Gbinije may mention it in some interviews, but the odds they would be good enough to do it may be slim. I think your worries that Duke is transforming into a Kentucky with lots of one-and-done kids and no upperclassmen are unfounded.

--Jason "I hate to pull this card out, but I think we should largely trust in K about stuff like this ;) " Evans

Orton was #20 and Bledsoe was #52 (according to RSCI), and while I assume you would put them into the "big mistake" category, I think what made Kentucky "Kentucky" was the one-and-done mindset. I'm sure the four Kentucky frosh talked about it constantly all season, and Calipari encouraged that thought process, so when the time came they all went. How much was the coach and how much was the players egging each other on is probably impossible to say. I agree we should trust K to deal with this, should it arise.

SCMatt33
09-01-2010, 12:39 PM
In 2010, there were 7 OaD players taken in the first round. 3 more went in the 2nd round for a total of 10 drafted freshmen. Several of those were likely kids who made a mistake and overvalued their stock. Had those kids been at Duke, they would have gotten the good advice not to turn pro yet.

I'm pretty sure that all of the kids who make a mistake in turning pro received good advice from their coaches. They were likely too stubborn to listen and/or received bad advice from others around them who stand to gain if they turn pro, or parents who also overvalue their child's value. For some reason, when I read the post, I immediately thought of what the conversation between Mick Cronin and Lance Stephenson must have been like. Cronin would be practically screaming that he needs at least another year to mature, while Stephenson is thinking that he's "born ready" and that Cronin just wants him there to stay off the hot seat.

In the end, I think you're right in trusting Coach K, but not just to give the good advice, but recruit those who will listen.

Bluedog
09-01-2010, 12:47 PM
I'm pretty sure that all of the kids who make a mistake in turning pro received good advice from their coaches. They were likely too stubborn to listen and/or received bad advice from others around them who stand to gain if they turn pro, or parents who also overvalue their child's value. For some reason, when I read the post, I immediately thought of what the conversation between Mick Cronin and Lance Stephenson must have been like. Cronin would be practically screaming that he needs at least another year to mature, while Stephenson is thinking that he's "born ready" and that Cronin just wants him there to stay off the hot seat.

In the end, I think you're right in trusting Coach K, but not just to give the good advice, but recruit those who will listen.

While I agree that Coach K and our players typically declare for the draft only when they're in a good position, there are exceptions so we can't say we're immune. See Randolph, Shavlik and McRoberts, Josh. You could even argue McRoberts went too late. There is no doubt that he would have been drafted much higher after freshman year had he decided to depart. Instead, he stayed and his status went way down and he still left after his sophomore year, being drafted in the second round. You could say that he improved his game by staying an extra year in college and was "more prepared," but you can't deny the fact that staying cost him millions of dollars and a guaranteed contract. (Plus, it's not like players can't improve while riding the bench in the NBA.)

CharlestonDevil
09-01-2010, 01:02 PM
From what I have seen Kabongo has a similar type of game to Kyries'(playmaker scorer great court vision and good leadership.Does anyone else seethis?

I think we need kill this rumor before it grows any more. While it's a nice dream to have we don't have the scholarships on top of the fact our backcourt is already loaded, especially if Kyrie stays.

Kabongo is not going to de-commit just to sign at Duke (scholarship or not) just to fight for playing time with Curry (Jr.), Dawkins (Jr.), Austin (Fr.), Thornton (So.) and Kyrie (So.).

airowe
09-01-2010, 01:21 PM
I think we need kill this rumor before it grows any more. While it's a nice dream to have we don't have the scholarships on top of the fact our backcourt is already loaded, especially if Kyrie stays.

Kabongo is not going to de-commit just to sign at Duke (scholarship or not) just to fight for playing time with Curry (Jr.), Dawkins (Jr.), Austin (Fr.), Thornton (So.) and Kyrie (So.).

The thought is that Kyrie won't be around for his Sophomore season. Seeing as Rivers plays the 2 mainly, Andre plays the 2/3, and Curry can play the 1/2, Kabongo would really only be sharing minutes at the PG spot (where he plays) with Seth at times and Thornton to an extent.

Myck is a serious talent as a lead guard, and would more than likely push Seth to the 2 and Austin to a 3rd guard position.

If he came to Duke. That's a big if.

SCMatt33
09-01-2010, 01:52 PM
While I agree that Coach K and our players typically declare for the draft only when they're in a good position, there are exceptions so we can't say we're immune. See Randolph, Shavlik and McRoberts, Josh. You could even argue McRoberts went too late. There is no doubt that he would have been drafted much higher after freshman year had he decided to depart. Instead, he stayed and his status went way down and he still left after his sophomore year, being drafted in the second round. You could say that he improved his game by staying an extra year in college and was "more prepared," but you can't deny the fact that staying cost him millions of dollars and a guaranteed contract. (Plus, it's not like players can't improve while riding the bench in the NBA.)

I think McRoberts could have gotten his NBA stock back up in his sophomore year if he hadn't revealed so many mental deficiencies. I won't even get into chemistry issues, but when you're the number one guy in a class, you're expected to have the ability and desire to take over games, and McRoberts was never the on court leader that he was expected to be. He also didn't have much maturity when it came to his performance. He let missed shots and bad calls get in his head. Those things are ok for high school guys and freshman, but beyond that, NBA teams want improvement in those areas, hence the drop.

Since this is a recruiting thread, I will tie it back. With rivers, I fully expect that as a son of a coach, he will be excellent in these areas, which will help his stock in the NBA, and his decision making if it's not where he wants to be.

dyemeduke
09-01-2010, 02:11 PM
While I agree that Coach K and our players typically declare for the draft only when they're in a good position, there are exceptions so we can't say we're immune. See Randolph, Shavlik and McRoberts, Josh.

Coach K gave his blessing to Brand when he left, but he did not with Avery. I don't remember about Maggette. Avery did indeed struggle once in the league as well, while Brand flourished. I agree that we're not immune to the early-declarations, even though it's not as prone of an issue as other schools.

Which brings us to Kentucky and previous comments about Cal. While I hate Cal, I do think that he still does have his players' futures in mind. He may be a slimy creep, but I don't think he's pushing kids to be one and done. I think he was legitimately surprised that Orton left.

For what it's worth though, if I have a kid in my program that has the chance to be a top-5 pick, and he asks me whether he should leave or not, I tell him that the choice is his. However, there are no guarantees in top draft pick positions. If he wants to leave, and the NBA and him are mutually ready for each other, then yes, I tell him best of luck.

SilkyJ
09-01-2010, 03:59 PM
In the end, I think you're right in trusting Coach K, but not just to give the good advice, but recruit those who will listen.


While I agree that Coach K and our players typically declare for the draft only when they're in a good position, there are exceptions so we can't say we're immune. See Randolph, Shavlik and McRoberts, Josh. You could even argue McRoberts went too late.

I'm not sure McBob and Shav are the best examples of players not heeding K's advice Re: going pro. William Avery is probably the best example as Coach K told him not to go and that he wasn't ready, but Avery went anyway.

Shav had some family connections and did some evaluation of his prospects on his own. Moreover, he was likely (or at least we all suspected) to surrender some PT to super-recruit McBob and as a result there was a big chance his stock could drop. So Shav made a bit of a pre-emptive move, even though he knew there was a big chance he would go undrafted. To his credit he made the 6ers and has earned an NBA paycheck for 5 straight seasons. So while K might have told Shav that he could improve his stock by staying, Shav likely knew that and chose to go pro anyways and not suffer having to give up PT to a freshman (and a commensurate drop in stock, which he knew wasn't that high to begin with).

McBob left with Coach K's graces and it was publicly reported, IIRC, that the plan was always for him to leave after 2 years due to family financial issues. So McBob didn't go against K in that instance.

JohnGalt
09-01-2010, 04:37 PM
Which brings us to Kentucky and previous comments about Cal. While I hate Cal, I do think that he still does have his players' futures in mind. He may be a slimy creep, but I don't think he's pushing kids to be one and done. I think he was legitimately surprised that Orton left.



He did, after all, have one of the greatest quotes of the year several years ago when asked about whether he thought Derrick Rose should go pro:

"If he does what's good for him and his family, he'll go pro. If he does what's good for me and my family, he'll stay."

Well placed, Cal.

Osiagledknarf
09-02-2010, 09:26 PM
Via Austin Rivers twitter:

@TARHEEL8423 to you and all the tarheel fans! I will be at the midnight madness!!! (9 hours ago)


@Dukefan23inNY im going to dukes mid night madness! But I'm visiting Carolina the first of October! So yupp (7 hours ago)

Just saw this on ICC.

GODUKEGO
09-03-2010, 10:46 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2010-09-03/duke-to-host-austin-rivers-at-midnight-madness

Class of '94
09-05-2010, 04:40 PM
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2010-09-03/duke-to-host-austin-rivers-at-midnight-madness

Can anyone paint a positive spin for us with Austin's official visit being the weekend of CTC; but after his official visit to UNC. I have to admit, I liked it the other way around, as originally reported, with Austin going to Duke first and then possibly UNC. I know that with him coming to Duke after UNC's visit we can counteract any negative recruiting Roy tried to give Austin; and with Coach K having the final word with Austin, he could easily choose Duke shortly thereafter.

But saying all of that, I could still see Roy trying to pull out all the stops to persuade Austin to come to UNC; and that bothers me a little bit.

BD80
09-05-2010, 08:45 PM
Can anyone paint a positive spin for us with Austin's official visit being the weekend of CTC; but after his official visit to UNC. I have to admit, I liked it the other way around, as originally reported, with Austin going to Duke first and then possibly UNC. I know that with him coming to Duke after UNC's visit we can counteract any negative recruiting Roy tried to give Austin; and with Coach K having the final word with Austin, he could easily choose Duke shortly thereafter.

But saying all of that, I could still see Roy trying to pull out all the stops to persuade Austin to come to UNC; and that bothers me a little bit.

ol' roy is going to have trouble showing Austin a picture of roy with a Gold medal USA basketball team. Pick the top 25 players in the world today, in a week, Coach K will have led at least 20 of them to a gold medal.

Those guys are networking, they have learned what it takes to win and want to team with others who have learned what it takes to win. Bron, DWade, and Bosh got together - and took less money to do it. Melo, CP3 and Stoudamire are talking about getting together in NY. Durant and Westbrook will attract others. Chauncey will be using his experience to convince Melo to stay in Denver. Playing for Coach K is becoming a mark of excellence.


I don't care when Austin visits unc. Once he visits Duke, he will be here to stay.

Lord Ash
09-05-2010, 09:04 PM
Can anyone paint a positive spin for us with Austin's official visit being the weekend of CTC; but after his official visit to UNC. I have to admit, I liked it the other way around, as originally reported, with Austin going to Duke first and then possibly UNC. I know that with him coming to Duke after UNC's visit we can counteract any negative recruiting Roy tried to give Austin; and with Coach K having the final word with Austin, he could easily choose Duke shortly thereafter.

But saying all of that, I could still see Roy trying to pull out all the stops to persuade Austin to come to UNC; and that bothers me a little bit.

Doesn't bother me at ALL; his last trip is to Duke, to CTC, to watch a banner go up. He is not going to commit to UNC all of a sudden after liking Duke for years just days before he comes to Duke.

WiJoe
09-05-2010, 09:15 PM
he is not going to commit to unc all of a sudden after liking duke for years just days before he comes to duke.

we hope

DevilHorns
09-05-2010, 09:55 PM
Doesn't bother me at ALL; his last trip is to Duke, to CTC, to watch a banner go up. He is not going to commit to UNC all of a sudden after liking Duke for years just days before he comes to Duke.

http://www.highschoolhoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/dukehbcutout.jpg

Duke 'leading' right now (according to the 'experts') means nothing. Austin doesn't know where he wants to go yet, that much is obvious as he is visiting multiple schools. If he is considering UNC even after their disgusting season last year that can only be good news for them. If he is considering UNC by going to one of their biggest star studded events of the year, well, lets be honest, that is great news for them. Let's see what happens. Deep down inside I think its a coin flip for Duke at best. Obviously I hope I am just wrong and simply too jaded from you-know-who last year.

Lord Ash
09-05-2010, 10:01 PM
Wow, I think you guys are a bit overly-negative.

First off, I would MUCH rather have the second visit. Austin will NOT commit to UNC without visiting Duke, what with a visit scheduled mere days later. That is just not in line with how Austin has gone about his recruiting since reopening it.

There have been many positive signs for Duke so far.

After committing to Florida, Austin Rivers re-opened his recruitment by asking Coach K and Duke to recruit him.

He has developed a relationship with the coaches over the years.

He did not even have contact with UNC until recently.

He has a great relationship with both Duke players and Duke prospects.

He has been known to wear top-to-bottom Duke outfits after games.

He only has two official visits set as far as I know; one is to UNC on the 1st. There is no big event at UNC that weekend that I know of, and there is CERTAINLY no 100 year Celebration. Maybe I am missing an event?

The second is to Duke for Countdown to Champi... er, Craziness, with a host of other recruits, including some he has expressed an interest in playing with. He will watch a banner go up and get to play with a lot of players he knows.

Oh, and Austin Rivers is not Harrison Barnes. Only Harrison is Harrison; other commits and their journey to a University is their own:)

I think Austin commits to Duke a week or two after visiting us. He won't make any other official visits.

DevilHorns
09-05-2010, 10:22 PM
Wow, I think you guys are a bit overly-negative.

First off, I would MUCH rather have the second visit. Austin will NOT commit to UNC without visiting Duke, what with a visit scheduled mere days later. That is just not in line with how Austin has gone about his recruiting since reopening it.

There have been many positive signs for Duke so far.

After committing to Florida, Austin Rivers re-opened his recruitment by asking Coach K and Duke to recruit him.

He has developed a relationship with the coaches over the years.

He did not even have contact with UNC until recently.

He has a great relationship with both Duke players and Duke prospects.

He has been known to wear top-to-bottom Duke outfits after games.

He only has two official visits set as far as I know; one is to UNC on the 1st. There is no big event at UNC that weekend that I know of, and there is CERTAINLY no 100 year Celebration. Maybe I am missing an event?

The second is to Duke for Countdown to Champi... er, Craziness, with a host of other recruits, including some he has expressed an interest in playing with. He will watch a banner go up and get to play with a lot of players he knows.

Oh, and Austin Rivers is not Harrison Barnes. Only Harrison is Harrison; other commits and their journey to a University is their own:)

I think Austin commits to Duke a week or two after visiting us. He won't make any other official visits.

Since he is even considering UNC he has a respectable chance at becoming a sworn enemy of Duke. Let's think about that for a second. It's not like if he doesn't choose Duke it means he's guaranteed to be going to a neutral Florida or something like that, he could easily end up with the baby blues! Remember all the good signs coming from Harrison last year? (ps- I could care less about Harrison now as we have Kyle coming back as a senior... let's see if Austin wants to join a program that is on track to set up a dynasty over the next 2-3 years).

MisterRoddy
09-06-2010, 12:19 AM
Duke 'leading' right now (according to the 'experts') means nothing. Austin doesn't know where he wants to go yet, that much is obvious as he is visiting multiple schools. If he is considering UNC even after their disgusting season last year that can only be good news for them. If he is considering UNC by going to one of their biggest star studded events of the year, well, lets be honest, that is great news for them. Let's see what happens. Deep down inside I think its a coin flip for Duke at best. Obviously I hope I am just wrong and simply too jaded from you-know-who last year.

- There comes a point in time where if EVERY SINGLE recruiting guy is saying they'd be "shocked" if Austin chose any college but Duke, you can get pretty confident.

- UNC is still one of the great college basketball schools. One bad season doesn't change that.

- I think your hope is right, just my opinion :)


Since he is even considering UNC he has a respectable chance at becoming a sworn enemy of Duke. Let's think about that for a second. It's not like if he doesn't choose Duke it means he's guaranteed to be going to a neutral Florida or something like that, he could easily end up with the baby blues! Remember all the good signs coming from Harrison last year? (ps- I could care less about Harrison now as we have Kyle coming back as a senior... let's see if Austin wants to join a program that is on track to set up a dynasty over the next 2-3 years).

As has been said before, Harrison Barnes was the exception, not the rule. There was never a chance he'd go anywhere but UNC. Unfortunately, some of us didn't see the hints (middle name Jordan, Mom a HUGE UNC fan) for as big as they really were. I am pretty sure if there were any hints in Rivers recruitment that would point to him joining the Holes, they would have surfaced by now. This recruitment screams KI, not HBFU.

DevilHorns
09-06-2010, 12:52 AM
This recruitment screams KI, not HBFU.

And I want to scream that he's surely a Duke commit like the rest of ya'll, but it's too fishy for me as he's giving UNC a strong honest look (at least that's what I call going to their 50% off sun tans with Roy event).

I honestly don't know enough about Austin... and to be truthful, I don't think most or anyone here does either. I don't remember people yapping about how Harrison's mom made tapes of MJ for Harrison to watch as a kid, etc last year when we were supposedly the 'favorites' to land him. All I remember is how well-spoken he was, how he's so committed to academics (and so obviously he would go to Duke), how great his relationship was with K (he didn't call Roy on his bday did he?), how quick we were to get on his radar, how he valued loyalty that we showed him from day one and wouldn't abandon us for a quick shiny look from that other program 8 miles away, etc.

Who knows what's going on in Austin's head. Objectively speaking, he has not committed yet and is officially visiting UNC and Duke. No recruit visits a school unless they are honestly truly considering going there. That's the bottom line. But of course, we all live at some level of optimism and pessimism. I chose to live somewhere in the middle even when things look to be going better from the eyes of the rest. That way, I get that much more of a boost when things go our way. :cool:

MisterRoddy
09-06-2010, 02:05 AM
And I want to scream that he's surely a Duke commit like the rest of ya'll, but it's too fishy for me as he's giving UNC a strong honest look (at least that's what I call going to their 50% off sun tans with Roy event).

I honestly don't know enough about Austin... and to be truthful, I don't think most or anyone here does either. I don't remember people yapping about how Harrison's mom made tapes of MJ for Harrison to watch as a kid, etc last year when we were supposedly the 'favorites' to land him. All I remember is how well-spoken he was, how he's so committed to academics (and so obviously he would go to Duke), how great his relationship was with K (he didn't call Roy on his bday did he?), how quick we were to get on his radar, how he valued loyalty that we showed him from day one and wouldn't abandon us for a quick shiny look from that other program 8 miles away, etc.

Who knows what's going on in Austin's head. Objectively speaking, he has not committed yet and is officially visiting UNC and Duke. No recruit visits a school unless they are honestly truly considering going there. That's the bottom line. But of course, we all live at some level of optimism and pessimism. I chose to live somewhere in the middle even when things look to be going better from the eyes of the rest. That way, I get that much more of a boost when things go our way. :cool:

- He's not going to Drag Night at UNC.

- Exactly, we chose to ignore those facts about HB and downplay the affect it would end up having in his decision. To my knowledge, there aren't any Rivers-UNC connections that could end up swaying him to choose them. Obviously, there could be, but you would think we would've heard something of it by now.

- The last bolded part isn't true. Many recruits visit, "just cuz."

BTW, your rationalization for your pessimism actually makes a lot of sense. Not saying I will share your thoughts but I understand where you're coming from.

sagegrouse
09-06-2010, 09:19 AM
- . Many recruits visit, "just cuz."

.

Lets see, a player could commit to, say, Duke before taking any official visits, having driven to his favorite one or two in Mom's old Honda Civic and bunked in a dorm. He would be celebrated on DBR.

Or, a player can take the max number of visits and, in the process, fly by private jet; stay in fancy hotels; eat fabulous meals at great restaurants; and sample campus social life. And, he would be criticized on DBR for months for dragging out the recruitment process and showing questionable loyalty to the Blue Devils.

For the average 18YO I am not sure this is a difficult choice. For a 30YO tailgater this is ridiculously easy. And, I won't say how old I am, but one of my favorite Duke games seen in person was the Duke-UNC game in 1961 that featured a disgraceful brawl near the Carolina bench. Sage Grouse would definitely take the max trips.

sagegrouse

duke blue brewcrew
09-06-2010, 09:20 AM
While I agree that Coach K and our players typically declare for the draft only when they're in a good position, there are exceptions so we can't say we're immune. See Randolph, Shavlik and McRoberts, Josh. You could even argue McRoberts went too late. There is no doubt that he would have been drafted much higher after freshman year had he decided to depart. Instead, he stayed and his status went way down and he still left after his sophomore year, being drafted in the second round. You could say that he improved his game by staying an extra year in college and was "more prepared," but you can't deny the fact that staying cost him millions of dollars and a guaranteed contract. (Plus, it's not like players can't improve while riding the bench in the NBA.)

Please feel free to add Avery, William to this list...in fact, he was the first to do so. So in theory, you could say Avery was the ringleader of this undistinguished trio.

moonpie23
09-06-2010, 09:44 AM
No recruit visits a school unless they are honestly truly considering going there. That's the bottom line.

HWNSNBM did !

he had NO intentions of going to duke.......he set the whole thing up just like he wanted to...



http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_2.gif

loran16
09-06-2010, 11:09 AM
HWNSNBM did !

he had NO intentions of going to duke.......he set the whole thing up just like he wanted to...


I'm assuming that abbreviation refers to Barnes, in which case i hope you were joking.

Once Again: Recruits can and do visit schools while being unsure about where they want to eventually go.

I would bet, if we had some way to know Harrison's mind, we would find that he did consider the possibility of Duke and that it truly was the leader in his head for a good bit.

You can vilify Barnes for being a tarheel. Don't hate the kid for doing due diligence about where he wants to be for school.

Devilsfan
09-06-2010, 11:52 AM
I truely don't believe he did due diligence.

moonpie23
09-06-2010, 05:55 PM
I'm assuming that abbreviation refers to Barnes, in which case i hope you were joking.



i'm not joking and i TRULY believe it was a set up from the git-go.....


http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_2.gif

Osiagledknarf
09-06-2010, 06:18 PM
Just want to recap of the players who have been other offered by both Duke and UNC in the past 10 years that either went and/or commited to UNC or Duke.
UNC:

Harrison Barnes
Leslie Macdonald
Brandan Wright
Tyler Hansbrough


Duke:

Loul Deng
Shelden Williams
Shavlik Randolph
Ryan Kelly
josh Mcroberts
Greg Paulus
Shaun Livingston

So, it is pretty even as far as head on head recruiting.

Also, with one visiting the other first... Livingston visited UNC first back in 2004 and sandwiched visits with us, Arizona and Illinois. So, I don't think it means much who is AR visits first in his recruiting.

Duke:

DevilHorns
09-06-2010, 06:48 PM
Just want to recap of the players who have been other offered by both Duke and UNC in the past 10 years that either went and/or commited to UNC or Duke.
UNC:

Harrison Barnes
Leslie Macdonald
Brandan Wright
Tyler Hansbrough


Duke:

Loul Deng
Shelden Williams
Shavlik Randolph
Ryan Kelly
josh Mcroberts
Greg Paulus
Shaun Livingston

So, it is pretty even as far as head on head recruiting.

Also, with one visiting the other first... Livingston visited UNC first back in 2004 and sandwiched visits with us, Arizona and Illinois. So, I don't think it means much who is AR visits first in his recruiting.

Duke:

I'm surprised you add Livingston to this list; as we all know, he logged exactly ZERO minutes in a Duke uniform. If Austin commits to Duke, and in some bizarre twist decides to go play in Europe for a year, then would you add him to our recruiting triumphs over UNC as well?

Osiagledknarf
09-06-2010, 07:07 PM
I'm surprised you add Livingston to this list; as we all know, he logged exactly ZERO minutes in a Duke uniform. If Austin commits to Duke, and in some bizarre twist decides to go play in Europe for a year, then would you add him to our recruiting triumphs over UNC as well?

He signed a letter of intent with Duke and then bolted for the NBA. He would have gone here if he were to have gone to school. I am adding guys who went AND/OR commited to Duke or UNC. If that were to happen, I would count it by that simple fact.

Lord Ash
09-06-2010, 07:09 PM
i'm not joking and i TRULY believe it was a set up from the git-go.....



Wow, really? That would take an AWFUL lot of conniving and maliciousness... like on a level that we've never seen before... from a guy who spent a lot of time at Duke and with Coach K, and spoke very highly of Duke... and who wasn't even really contacted by Carolina until well into his recruiting. And I don't even get WHY he would do that. How does it give him an advantage? How does messing with one of the most powerful coaches in the game help?

I really disagree with you on this, and have not seen anything that would support it.

MarkD83
09-06-2010, 07:21 PM
Wow, really? That would take an AWFUL lot of conniving and maliciousness... like on a level that we've never seen before... from a guy who spent a lot of time at Duke and with Coach K, and spoke very highly of Duke... and who wasn't even really contacted by Carolina until well into his recruiting. And I don't even get WHY he would do that. How does it give him an advantage? How does messing with one of the most powerful coaches in the game help?

I really disagree with you on this, and have not seen anything that would support it.

Now that it is a year later and totally irrelevant, I am interested in the train of thought of this conversation. At the time, I wondered why Roy jumped on a plane in order to arrive at Harrison's home right after Cocah K's in-home visit. My gut feeling was that Roy had some idea after the 100 year UNC celebration that UNC lead this recruiting battle and when Coach K had an in-home he got nervous about the situation. In addition, you do not set-up a skype call and have everyone in the locker room unless you have a good idea of what is about to transpire.

So was it a "set-up", probably not but was something 80-90% decided after the 100 year UNC celebration, maybe so.

Stray Gator
09-06-2010, 08:45 PM
Wow, really? That would take an AWFUL lot of conniving and maliciousness... like on a level that we've never seen before... from a guy who spent a lot of time at Duke and with Coach K, and spoke very highly of Duke... and who wasn't even really contacted by Carolina until well into his recruiting. And I don't even get WHY he would do that. How does it give him an advantage? How does messing with one of the most powerful coaches in the game help?

I really disagree with you on this, and have not seen anything that would support it.

As has been posted here before, it is a fact that shortly after announcing his commitment, Barnes gave an interview to an ESPN blogger, in which he was quoted as commenting about his selection of UNC:

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4900463

A reasonable person might conclude from that statement that Barnes was either being dishonest when he led people at Duke to believe he was seriously considering the Blue Devils, or he was being dishonest when he indicated later that he was not seriously considering any school except UNC. But even if you are generous enough to shrug off the comment as ex post facto "propaganda" designed to solidify his loyalty to the Tar Heels, it certainly could be viewed as support for the view that his professed interest in Duke was, or became at some point, a mere pretense.

moonpie23
09-06-2010, 08:57 PM
And I don't even get WHY he would do that.

first, all hail lord ash... :)

perhaps you're underestimating what a true-blue(baby) would do to embarrass their hated rivals..


perhaps you don't think they "hate" duke...


this person knew he was going to unc from his childhood.....he's dreamed about it...it's been basically his LIFE-LONG goal to this point in his young existence...

if you don't think they "hate" duke, or "hate" duke's illustrious head coach, then i could see how you would give him some leeway in this..

so, just to be clear......you think that the decision was made in what kind of time frame before the skype call?


http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_4.gif

trinity92
09-06-2010, 09:06 PM
Harrison's "Carolina was the only choice" line was pure PR meant to make the carolina faithful happy. If you're heavily involved with Duke, then go somewhat surprisingly and abruptly to the arch-rival, you make a statement like that to ingratiate yourself to your new fanbase. What else is he going to say to the world? "I really love Duke, but UNC was an eensy weensy bit better, so I picked them. No big deal, right? I mean they're both great and all -- one ACC school is as good as another, right . . . ?" That would have really started things out well for him living in a town where K and all things royal blue are regarded as somewhat satanic. He would have been fairly tainted to his new fanbase. Once you've made my conclusion, and I certainly agree with me that I'm right about it, there's absolutely no way you can still take the statement to support any theories that he purposely got involved with Duke just to make us look stupid or hurt our recruiting.

Using HB's statement to infer anything beyond good media savvy is to make WAY too much of it. Reminds me of those kentucky fans who believed K when he told interviewers how good West Virginia was after we thrashed them in the FF and said something to the effect that he didn't know if we could have won without a whole week to prepare for them. The crazed kats ran with that and concluded we couldn't have beaten WV either if we had faced them in the regional final with only a day to prepare. Of course, K meant none of what he said-- we had just dismantled a final four team about as thoroughly as possible and he was trying to be a good sport. We didn't have any special game plan for them-- we were just better. (well maybe we had a plan in place to whallop Mazzulla every chance we got, but that's covered in another thread :P)

roywhite
09-06-2010, 09:16 PM
Harrison's "Carolina was the only choice" line was pure PR meant to make the carolina faithful happy. If you're heavily involved with Duke, then go somewhat surprisingly and abruptly to the arch-rival, you make a statement like that to ingratiate yourself to your new fanbase. What else is he going to say to the world? "I really love Duke, but UNC was an eensy weensy bit better, so I picked them. No big deal, right? I mean they're both great and all . . ." That would have really started things out well for him living in a town where K and all things royal blue are regarded as somewhat satanic. He would have been fairly tainted to his new fanbase.

Using HB's statement to infer anything beyond good media savvy is to make WAY too much of it.

Barnes didn't think enough of Duke or Coach K to inform him prior to the (over the top) public announcement of his college choice.

No love lost for Mr. Barnes. Play on.

CharlestonDevil
09-06-2010, 10:36 PM
Barnes didn't think enough of Duke or Coach K to inform him prior to the (over the top) public announcement of his college choice.

Excellent point. But while I agree I am also supremely excited to know that HB will be in a tar hole uniform the year our more talented, more experienced, and CERTAINLY better coached Blue Devils will be a better team, and hopefully make him regret he ever wanted to don that heinous shade of blue.

But I think HB and AR have clearly demonstrated opposite personalities during their recruitment. And for that reason I will trust AR's openness about his Duke favoritism (atleast for the moment).

If AR decides Chapel Hill is the places for him, we, and K, will certainly know ahead of time and not find out through Skype.

Kedsy
09-06-2010, 11:17 PM
As has been posted here before, it is a fact that shortly after announcing his commitment, Barnes gave an interview to an ESPN blogger, in which he was quoted as commenting about his selection of UNC:

"Honestly, I really didn't have a second choice," Barnes said. "It was that clear-cut."

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/basketball/mens/news/story?id=4900463

A reasonable person might conclude from that statement that Barnes was either being dishonest when he led people at Duke to believe he was seriously considering the Blue Devils, or he was being dishonest when he indicated later that he was not seriously considering any school except UNC. But even if you are generous enough to shrug off the comment as ex post facto "propaganda" designed to solidify his loyalty to the Tar Heels, it certainly could be viewed as support for the view that his professed interest in Duke was, or became at some point, a mere pretense.

Well, it might be even more reasonable to consider the possibility that when he "led people at Duke to believe he was seriously considering the Blue Devils," he was, in fact, seriously considering us. Isn't it possible that Duke could have been the leader until Carolina put the full court press on? Most of the stuff (like stopping in for Coach K's birthday) happened *before* UNC got seriously involved and Duke was giving him the most love. Once the team he'd rooted for since childhood started paying just as much attention to him, he committed to them and he could honestly say his decision was clear cut.

I have no idea what the true story was, but there are plenty of possible scenarios that don't include conspiracies and dishonesty.

And as far as Austin Rivers is concerned, I think the HB story is a good reminder that nothing is etched in stone and being the leader is meaningless until a commitment is made. I don't think the HB saga tells us much of anything else that can be applied to AR.

Stray Gator
09-06-2010, 11:49 PM
Well, it might be even more reasonable to consider the possibility that when he "led people at Duke to believe he was seriously considering the Blue Devils," he was, in fact, seriously considering us. Isn't it possible that Duke could have been the leader until Carolina put the full court press on? Most of the stuff (like stopping in for Coach K's birthday) happened *before* UNC got seriously involved and Duke was giving him the most love. Once the team he'd rooted for since childhood started paying just as much attention to him, he committed to them and he could honestly say his decision was clear cut.

I have no idea what the true story was, but there are plenty of possible scenarios that don't include conspiracies and dishonesty.

And as far as Austin Rivers is concerned, I think the HB story is a good reminder that nothing is etched in stone and being the leader is meaningless until a commitment is made. I don't think the HB saga tells us much of anything else that can be applied to AR.

Certainly, the scenario you describe is "possible"; but I'm not sure that it's "more reasonable." Whether Barnes was genuinely interested in Duke before he chose UNC, or was practicing a deliberate deception for months prior to his announcement, is a matter on which we can only speculate. I don't profess to know the answer, and I don't believe it matters enough to justify further debate. What prompted my post was Lord Ash's statement that he had not seen anything to support the view that Barnes' apparent change of heart was a "set-up" from the outset. I think that Barnes' statement that there was "no second choice," if taken at face value, can be viewed as supporting the belief that he did not regard Duke as a serious contender. That's all.

JBDuke
09-07-2010, 12:04 AM
Folks, please keep your posts relevant to the discussion at hand - that is, the recruitment of Austin Rivers. Sidetracks to discuss things such as the new commenting feature don't belong here. If you want to voice your opinion on that topic, the appropriate place is the "Introducing" thread: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?21834-Introducing...

CharlestonDevil
09-07-2010, 11:36 AM
When is the FIBA World Championship over in relation to CTC? Having your coach raise a 4th National Championship banner and a World Championship banner within a few weeks of each other would be very impressive.

That could go a long way for AR and the other major recruits coming to CTC.

Class of '94
09-07-2010, 11:43 AM
When is the FIBA World Championship over in relation to CTC? Having your coach raise a 4th National Championship banner and a World Championship banner within a few weeks of each other would be very impressive.

That could go a long way for AR and the other major recruits coming to CTC.

This coming Sunday (Sept. 12) is the championship game for the World Championships.......

nmduke2001
09-07-2010, 12:12 PM
This coming Sunday (Sept. 12) is the championship game for the World Championships.......

Sadly, few will see the championship game since it goes up against NFL Football. It probably won't even be discussed on the first half of sports center.

uh_no
09-07-2010, 02:06 PM
That could go a long way for AR and the other major recruits coming to CTC.

I would doubt that austin is basing his collegiate decision based on whether the USA wins the world championship in basketball or not.....

CharlestonDevil
09-07-2010, 02:41 PM
I would doubt that austin is basing his collegiate decision based on whether the USA wins the world championship in basketball or not.....

It would be another title on Coach K's resume won by coaching the best our NBA talent that our couontry has to offer. Another shining example of why we have the best coach who has developed the best program in America.

I would certainly hope that factors in to his decision.

-bdbd
09-07-2010, 03:07 PM
Wow, really? That would take an AWFUL lot of conniving and maliciousness... like on a level that we've never seen before... from a guy who spent a lot of time at Duke and with Coach K, and spoke very highly of Duke... and who wasn't even really contacted by Carolina until well into his recruiting. And I don't even get WHY he would do that. How does it give him an advantage? How does messing with one of the most powerful coaches in the game help?

I really disagree with you on this, and have not seen anything that would support it.

Gotta agree with Lord Ash, Trinity92, Kedsy and Roy White. As a generalization, I don't believe in conspiracy theories - they're rarely true, or even credible when viewing ALL of the facts. But entertaining? Yeah, maybe.

For all of HB's gluttonous behavior vis-a-vis media attention, you have to keep in mind that he was only a 17 year old kid. Also remember that we was viewed by K and staff as having sufficient character such that we devoted LOTS of resources/time in our pursuit of him. It is easy to say "he grew up a Kerlina fan from birth" and was always destined for there. But history shows us TONS of examples of kids who grew up as fans of one school who ended up going to their rival in this relationship. Ever heard of Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, the Plumlees, Duke's David Henerson, etc.??

No, the simplest answer is usually the correct one (isn't that called "Occum's Razor?"). It seems highly likely that he truly WAS a Duke lean, even though his mom and he were Jordan fans. I agree that somewhere around the 100 year celebration that lean swung the other way. Who knows for sure, but though he surely made his decision before the night preceding the Skype circus, I doubt that he was absolutely clear/sure in his own mind more than a couple weeks prior - even if he knew he was leaning their way. Hey, you win a few (Laettner, Battier, Hill, McBob, AR, etc), you lose a few (HB, Williams, etc). ;-) Next play!

I DO agree with Roy White that the way the announcement was handled was a bit disrespectful to K and team. Chalk it up to 17-year old exuberance (though that doesn't fully forgive it). And the "There wasn't a number 2" comment: (1) Boosted his standing with his eventual fans, (2) Could be viewed as not wanting to dis his other 4 finalists (remember that his mom worked at Iowa State too). (3) He may have wanted to show he was certain of his decision - i.e. no waffling/hedging.

For AR, I'd rather bet on Duke than any other school - by a wide margin. :D
But it is a very different situation. Let's see if AR, if he commits to Duke, also utters that phrase, "there really wasn't a number 2." Sweet irony.

Class of '94
09-07-2010, 03:14 PM
Gotta agree with Lord Ash, Trinity92 and JimSummer. As a generalization, I don't believe in conspiracy theories - they're rarely true, or even credible when viewing ALL of the facts. But entertaining? Yeah, maybe.

For all of HB's gluttonous behavior vis-a-vis media attention, you have to keep in mind that he was only a 17 year old kid. Also remember that we was viewed by K and staff as having sufficiently desirable character such that we devoted LOTS of resources/time in our pursuit of him. It is easy to say "he grew up a Kerlina fan from birth" and was always destined for there. But history shows us TONS of examples of kids who grew up as fans of one school who ended up going to their rival in this relationship. Ever heard of Bobby Hurley, Grant Hill, the Plumlees, Duke's David Henerson, etc.??

No, the simplest answer is usually the correct one (isn't that called "Occum's Razor?"). It seems highly likely that he truly WAS a Duke lean, even though his mom and he were Jordan fans. I agree that somewhere around the 100 year celebration that lean swung the other way. Who knows for sure, but though he surely made his decision before the night preceding the Skype circus, I doubt that he was absolutly clear/sure in his own mind more than a couple weeks prior - even if he knew he was leaning their way. Hey, you win a few (Laettner, Battier, Hill, McBob, AR, etc), you lose a few (HB, Williams, etc). ;-) Next play!

I DO agree with Jim that the way the announcement was handled was a bit disrespectful to K and team. Chalk it up to 17-year old exuberance (though that doesn't fully forgive it).

For AR, I'd rather bet on Duke than any other school - by a wide margin. :D

On a side but related note, has HB communicated with Coach K and smoothed things over in regards to how he handled the whole Skype thing? If not, that IMO says more about the character of HB than anything else and I don't chalk it up to him just being 17 at the time and using bad judgement. Out of respect and the time put in to developing a "supposed" bond and relationship with K, HB should've personally called Coach K and told him that he at least wasn't coming to Duke. I remember reading plenty of instances (Battier and MP3 as a recent example) where kids make those phone calls to the coaches to let them know that they didn't select those coaches' schools; and the kids mention that those are the toughest calls they ever had to make because of the bonds that they've developed with those coaches; but they make those calls anyway out of respect for those coaches and their relationships with the coaches.

And no matter which way AR goes, I hope he has the character and better judgement to let the losing coaches that are involved in his recruitment know that he did not choose their respective programs; and I think he will. But saying that, I do feel good about Austin coming to Duke to play for Coach K.

h8tarheels
09-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Anyone else notice any similarities in the article on AR linked today? If you look closely and follow recruits on Twitter, you will notice a similar saying between KI and AR... Maybe I looking to much into it, but who knows! I'm just sayin'

"It's an honor that people think that (could happen), but I've got to stay hungry and humble,"

Class of '94
09-07-2010, 04:08 PM
Anyone else notice any similarities in the article on AR linked today? If you look closely and follow recruits on Twitter, you will notice a similar saying between KI and AR... Maybe I looking to much into it, but who knows! I'm just sayin'

"It's an honor that people think that (could happen), but I've got to stay hungry and humble,"

Can you list any of the links that you are referring to?

BD80
09-07-2010, 04:46 PM
HWNSNBM did !

he had NO intentions of going to duke.......he set the whole thing up just like he wanted to...



Is that a Harry Potter reference to He Who Shall Not Be Named? I'm no good at puzzles, and I can't get the letters to work out.


... the simplest answer is usually the correct one (isn't that called "Occum's Razor?"). It seems highly likely that he truly WAS a Duke lean, even though his mom and he were Jordan fans. I agree that somewhere around the 100 year celebration that lean swung the other way. ...

My take is that he was convinced that he wouldn't get the playing time or the shots at Duke that he would get at unc. He will be the focus of the entire team for unc. He might not have started this year at Duke (whether Kyle would have moved to the 4 is a debate that shouldn't start in an AR thread!), he would have been at best the fourth in line for "go to" guys. ol' roy "recruited" in a negative fashion, no real surprise. I hope Prince Harry and roy are able to console each other when another unc season goes down in flames and they get to watch Duke cut down the nets at the end. That could have been YOU Harrison!

Austin is, hopefully, a different person. One who will appreciate being an integral cog on a VERY talented team. As well as HB would have fit in the Duke, Austin is even a better fit.

Bay Area Duke Fan
09-07-2010, 05:37 PM
It would be another title on Coach K's resume won by coaching the best our NBA talent that our couontry has to offer.

This year's national team certainly does not include the best NBA talent the US has.

Indoor66
09-07-2010, 06:36 PM
Is that a Harry Potter reference to He Who Shall Not Be Named? I'm no good at puzzles, and I can't get the letters to work out.

HWSNBM = He Who Shall Not Be Mentioned

SupaDave
09-07-2010, 06:38 PM
Can you list any of the links that you are referring to?

What he's referring to is posted on the front page (the article that is)...

Class of '94
09-07-2010, 06:55 PM
What he's referring to is posted on the front page (the article that is)...

Got it.....Thanks SupaDave.....

BD80
09-08-2010, 08:20 AM
HWSNBM = He Who Shall Not Be Mentioned

So the frequent mentioning of "HWSNBM" is ironic?

_Gary
09-08-2010, 09:58 AM
HWSNBM = He Who Shall Not Be Mentioned

I think what threw off the poster asking the question is that the original acronym had an additional "N" after the HW. It was "HWNSNBM", so I'm assuming the poster was going for:

He Who's Name Shall Never Be Mentioned.

But in either case it's the same thing.

uh_no
09-08-2010, 10:07 AM
It would be another title on Coach K's resume won by coaching the best our NBA talent that our couontry has to offer. Another shining example of why we have the best coach who has developed the best program in America.

I would certainly hope that factors in to his decision.

So you assert that IF USA wins the world title, then AR will be more likely to come to duke. Would you also like to assert that IF USA does not win the world title, then AR is less likely to come to Duke?

AR: "I know coach K has a bazillion wins and 4 national titles, and look at all those names in the rafters, not to mention a gold medal....but man, he couldn't seal the deal at the 2010 fiba world championships....i don't want to play for THAT guy"

If you want to claim that K winning makes austin want to attend duke more, than you must also conclude that k losing would make austin less likely to attend duke....the latter statement is ludicrous....whether K wins or not will have no effect except perhaps to further validate an already made decision

Clipsfan
09-08-2010, 11:39 AM
If you want to claim that K winning makes austin want to attend duke more, than you must also conclude that k losing would make austin less likely to attend duke....the latter statement is ludicrous....whether K wins or not will have no effect except perhaps to further validate an already made decision

Not necessarily true. The contra side is that K losing the the WC would make AR less likely to come to Duke than K winning the WC. Not less likely to come to Duke than he currently is. It could simply be that he's X% now, and that if the US loses he remains X%, but that if the US wins he is (X+1)%.

CharlestonDevil
09-08-2010, 11:46 AM
So you assert that IF USA wins the world title, then AR will be more likely to come to duke. Would you also like to assert that IF USA does not win the world title, then AR is less likely to come to Duke?

If you think that K winning another world title doesn't even register with AR and has zero impact on his thought process, then that is your opinion. Personally I think that any tournament, Olympics or otherwise, where K takes NBA caliber talent and makes them in to the best team in the world goes a LONG WAY in proving that the Duke system makes you a better NBA/world class, player and that definitely factors in to AR's decision.

No, a FIBA championship will not be the deciding factor in his college choice. That was never my original assertion. But all of the positive press i.e. Kevin Durant, Derrick Rose and the like singing praises for K, hanging our 4th banner, and being plastered all over ESPN b/c you are a national and world champion will do a hell of a lot in getting committments from top recruits like Rivers and Quincy Miller.

SilkyJ
09-08-2010, 01:10 PM
So the frequent mentioning of "HWSNBM" is ironic?

Yes, but the only person who really does it is Moonpie. Most everyone else has gotten over it.

Duke: A Dynasty
09-08-2010, 04:34 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/austin-rivers-could-be-more-than-a-family-basketball-star-090610

Austin Rivers interview. he mentions schools hes interested in and im not sure if its just me but sounds like he puts and emphasis on the word Duke when he says it.

Class of '94
09-08-2010, 04:47 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/austin-rivers-could-be-more-than-a-family-basketball-star-090610

Austin Rivers interview. he mentions schools hes interested in and im not sure if its just me but sounds like he puts and emphasis on the word Duke when he says it.

I thought it was interesting and funny that the the pitch UNC supposedly made to him was that they were going to outrecruit him over any other school that was interested in him. Now I could be wrong; but I haven't heard that to be the case up to this point. Now to be fair, things could change after his visit to UNC on Oct. 1st (if he even goes there for his visit); but IMO I doubt it.

Jderf
09-08-2010, 06:53 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/collegebasketball/story/austin-rivers-could-be-more-than-a-family-basketball-star-090610

Austin Rivers interview. he mentions schools hes interested in and im not sure if its just me but sounds like he puts and emphasis on the word Duke when he says it.

Not sure about the written interview, but isn't that video a bit old? I thought I saw the same one a couple months back.

DevilHorns
09-08-2010, 11:12 PM
The move at 31 seconds is jaw-dropping....and eh, so is the rest of the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEGZ9RNTj0

striker219
09-09-2010, 02:27 AM
The move at 31 seconds is jaw-dropping....

Oh come one, he only faced up and embarrassed three guys, what's the big deal? I mean, the fourth guy may have been running up behind him at the time, but a team puts five guys on the floor at a time, and if my math is correct that leaves one opposing player that Austin wasn't anywhere close to.

Bluedevil114
09-09-2010, 07:33 AM
The move at 31 seconds is jaw-dropping....and eh, so is the rest of the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEGZ9RNTj0

Austin is simply electric and it would be amazing to see he and KI together on the floor at Duke.

SupaDave
09-09-2010, 05:43 PM
The move at 31 seconds is jaw-dropping....and eh, so is the rest of the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEGZ9RNTj0

I haven't even finished watching this yet and I'm blown away. His ability to get his shot is crazy. It appears the "scoop" lay-up is his specialty. His handles are nuts. Lastly, his ability to hit the step back three is simply bananas. He sets himself up so fast to get off a good shot - perfect body position in a split second. Just wow...

G man
09-09-2010, 06:24 PM
I haven't even finished watching this yet and I'm blown away. His ability to get his shot is crazy. It appears the "scoop" lay-up is his specialty. His handles are nuts. Lastly, his ability to hit the step back three is simply bananas. He sets himself up so fast to get off a good shot - perfect body position in a split second. Just wow...

Gosh I could not agree more. It is very rare to find someone at this age with that shiftiness with that ability to shoot. He is a scoring machine. I can't wait to see him in college. I just hope he is making people look dumb for the good guys.

Poincaré
09-09-2010, 11:20 PM
I haven't even finished watching this yet and I'm blown away. His ability to get his shot is crazy. It appears the "scoop" lay-up is his specialty. His handles are nuts. Lastly, his ability to hit the step back three is simply bananas. He sets himself up so fast to get off a good shot - perfect body position in a split second. Just wow...

Ability to get his shot. Indeed. Although he's been advertised as a PG in some places, Rivers is a Scorer! He's got some crazy body control on both the step-back and pull-up jumpers. Personally, I was more impressed with the pull-up. The step-back could look better than it is because of his handle. When he's able to square his body to the basket against contact when pulling-up, that's a pro-level skill.

Before I get too excited though, I wonder if certain the speed was altered in certain parts of the video. For example, when Austin goes to his crazy crossover, it almost felt like the video slowed down at the top of the bounce before speeding up again as he crossed over. That kind of editing can make an already good crossover look like Tim Hardaway's best, but is definitely misleading. I suspect that this is the case because there's no way that a 17 year-old's crossover is that good.

Lord Ash
09-10-2010, 12:43 AM
Hm, I saw no indications of editing trickery.

And you are talking about a 17 year old that Rivals calls the best high school basketball player of ANY age, and a surefire NBA star. He better be able to look like Tim Hardaway when playing against high schoolers!

SupaDave
09-10-2010, 07:27 AM
And you are talking about a 17 year old that Rivals calls the best high school basketball player of ANY age, and a surefire NBA star. He better be able to look like Tim Hardaway when playing against high schoolers!

VERY VERY TRUE. I can remember when UNC's Donald Williams (remember him?) put up like 50 or 60 points on Northern (Durham) when I was in high school and it STILL looked nothing like what Austin is doing.

Mike Corey
09-10-2010, 08:13 AM
I suspect that this is the case because there's no way that a 17 year-old's crossover is that good.

Oh, yes there is; Austin's offensive repertoire is impressive in its breadth and in its quality, and his crossover is among his greatest gifts.

NashvilleDevil
09-10-2010, 04:07 PM
The move at 31 seconds is jaw-dropping....and eh, so is the rest of the entire video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfEGZ9RNTj0

I know it's a mixtape video but this kid is ridiculous. If he decides to come to Duke it will be a blast watching him play.

NSDukeFan
09-10-2010, 04:21 PM
...
Before I get too excited though, I wonder if certain the speed was altered in certain parts of the video. For example, when Austin goes to his crazy crossover, it almost felt like the video slowed down at the top of the bounce before speeding up again as he crossed over. That kind of editing can make an already good crossover look like Tim Hardaway's best, but is definitely misleading. I suspect that this is the case because there's no way that a 17 year-old's crossover is that good.

I agree. I think the speed was altered in all the videos as Austin appeared quicker than everyone else. I think he got speeded up and everyone else slowed down. Either that, or his quick is quicker than their quick (as Steve Nash might say.) I also think they must have lowered the rim on some of his dunks for him to get up that high. They must have also changed the mechanics on his shot for it to look that good for this video and altered his footwork to make it look very good for his age as well. All in all, an excellent fabrication. I hope he comes to Duke. I think he would help the team.

SilkyJ
09-10-2010, 04:25 PM
I agree. I think the speed was altered in all the videos as Austin appeared quicker than everyone else. I think he got speeded up and everyone else slowed down. Either that, or his quick is quicker than their quick (as Steve Nash might say.)

His quick must smell like french toast.

Poincaré
09-10-2010, 04:57 PM
Hm, I saw no indications of editing trickery.

And you are talking about a 17 year old that Rivals calls the best high school basketball player of ANY age, and a surefire NBA star. He better be able to look like Tim Hardaway when playing against high schoolers!

Thanks a lot... I was trying to temper my own enthusiasm. The next thing I know, I'm wondering where all the time went after Googling/Youtubing Austin Rivers.

Lord Ash
09-10-2010, 04:59 PM
*laugh* I am ALL for tempering enthusiasm... after my Harrison Barnes enthusiasm, I think I have finally learned to expect nothing, but at least remain hopeful. I certainly remain hopeful about Austin!:)

muzikfrk75
09-10-2010, 11:22 PM
Don't know how old this ESPNU Recruiting insider show is, but they now have Austin as #1 in their ESPNU 150.

kong123
09-14-2010, 03:47 PM
Roy has an in-home visit with AR tonight.

DeBlueDevil
09-14-2010, 03:52 PM
Roy has an in-home visit with AR tonight.

How do you know? What's your source?

kong123
09-14-2010, 03:56 PM
Roy has an in-home visit with AR tonight.


How do you know? What's your source?

Inside Carolina premium board, posted by the mods

FWIW, the insiders say that AR to Duke is almost a done deal. However, it seems that Doc likes the idea of AR going to UNC. I guess we will see what happens!

Class of '94
09-14-2010, 03:58 PM
How do you know? What's your source?

Does anyone know if Duke has any in-home visits scheduled with Austin? And if what Kong says is true, I could definitely see the majority of his pitch being centered around how great Carolina is and how bad going to Duke would be for Austin's basketball career.

But seeing how Coach K and Team USA just won gold and Austin having a chance to see how Coach K effectively used his NBA guards, I'm actually not worried about Ol' Roy's visit (again, if true).

Class of '94
09-14-2010, 04:03 PM
FWIW, the insiders say that AR to Duke is almost a done deal. However, it seems that Doc likes the idea of AR going to UNC. I guess we will see what happens!

Kong, I'm curious to know where you heard that Doc likes the idea of AR going to UNC and if you know why? I readily admit that I'm not a recruiting insider; but this is the first that I've read that Doc supposedly likes UNC that much. I know he was open to Austin keeping his options open and looking at multiple schools to make sure that he makes a good decision.

kong123
09-14-2010, 04:06 PM
Kong, I'm curious to know where you heard that Doc likes the idea of AR going to UNC and if you know why? I readily admit that I'm not a recruiting insider; but this is the first that I've read that Doc supposedly likes UNC that much. I know he was open to Austin keeping his options open and looking at multiple schools to make sure that he makes a good decision.

This comes from an insider who has major credibility on the IC premium board... he says that AR would have already committed to Duke if it wasn't for Doc's insistence on AR visiting UNC first. You can discount this all you want, but this insider is solid and is treated like a bit of a rock star on the board. Perhaps Airowe can speak to his credibility and also to this rumor.

CLT Devil
09-14-2010, 04:09 PM
Maybe K will sneak in a visit as soon as Roy has left his house.

Class of '94
09-14-2010, 04:11 PM
This comes from an insider who has major credibility on the IC premium board... he says that AR would have already committed to Duke if it wasn't for Doc's insistence on AR visiting UNC first. You can discount this all you want, but this insider is solid and is treated like a bit of a rock star on the board. Perhaps Airowe can speak to his credibility and also to this rumor.

At this point, I'm not discounting anything. I can see Doc wanting Austin to visit UNC just ot make sure that he's solid with his possible decision with Duke. But do you have support or insigt as to Doc liking UNC more than Duke; and if so, why?

Saying that....I still feel very confident about Duke's position with Austin; but just curious as to whether or not Doc truly prefers UNC over Duke.

airowe
09-14-2010, 04:17 PM
Lowflight4 will not, and can not, prove how he came to this conclusion. Kong, I suggest you do not follow him like a sheep, and instead ask him why he thinks this is true. I doubt he can give you an honest answer.

You seem smart enough...

kong123
09-14-2010, 04:22 PM
Lowflight4 will not, and can not, prove how he came to this conclusion. Kong, I suggest you do not follow him like a sheep, and instead ask him why he thinks this is true. I doubt he can give you an honest answer.

You seem smart enough...

Didn't say that I believe everything he says, but I do know he has great contacts which give him access to great inside info. I was simply relaying an opinion that appears not to have traveled over to this board yet. While you assume that it may be false, another person could assume that it may be true. If nothing else, it gives everyone a bit more to talk about.

6th Man
09-14-2010, 04:25 PM
I like our momentum a little more with AR than I did HB. Now we are the ones coming off a title and Roy came off looking like a clown last year.

SCMatt33
09-14-2010, 04:32 PM
How do you know? What's your source?

I would imagine that it's pretty easy to sense it since the majority of the world's dadgum desire for Carolina suddenly shifted from Chapel Hill to Florida. Roy must be in town.

Seriously, though, I don't think that the in home visits are tremendously important with Rivers unless someone trips over themselves. He's not going to swing one way or the other based on an in home pitch. He knows what he's looking for, has a very knowledgeable support system, and will make the call based on what he and his family sees. I don't think you could ask for anything more from a recruit.

roywhite
09-14-2010, 04:35 PM
Kong, I'm curious to know where you heard that Doc likes the idea of AR going to UNC and if you know why? I readily admit that I'm not a recruiting insider; but this is the first that I've read that Doc supposedly likes UNC that much. I know he was open to Austin keeping his options open and looking at multiple schools to make sure that he makes a good decision.

'94....I think we may be getting hung up on semantics here, though goodness knows the parsing of every word regarding a recruit is akin to the old study of Kremlinology.

Doc insists Austin "go to UNC" in the sense of "Son, you definitely should visit Chapel Hill and talk with them before you make your final decision". Note Kong himself changed the wording from "going to UNC" to "visiting UNC" in his posts.

No inside info, but I like our chances.

Class of '94
09-14-2010, 04:49 PM
'94....I think we may be getting hung up on semantics here, though goodness knows the parsing of every word regarding a recruit is akin to the old study of Kremlinology.

Doc insists Austin "go to UNC" in the sense of "Son, you definitely should visit Chapel Hill and talk with them before you make your final decision". Note Kong himself changed the wording from "going to UNC" to "visiting UNC" in his posts.

No inside info, but I like our chances.

I hear you roywhilte and I agree with your line of thinking as well. I just wanted to see if Kong possibly had insight into a different line of thinking (i.e, Doc actually preferring Austin went to Duke over UNC). I definitley see Doc saying "Before you commit to Duke, go to UNC first to make sure this is what you want to do", which would explain why AR would visit UNC first, then Duke the following week as opposed to the other way around. Personally, I think AR would have committed during his visit to Duke if that visit had in fact been the first one.

kong123
09-14-2010, 04:58 PM
look, I think he is going to go to Duke. I think there are too many players at the 1 and 2 positions for AR to want to go to UNC. Sure, he maybe the best thing ever, but Duke seems like the best fit. However, if he changes his mind and wants to wear the baby blue, that would be fine by me. I would love to have another great player on the team and I would also love to steal another blue chip from Duke. But, I don't see that happening. AR has already tipped his hand too much.

Duvall
09-14-2010, 05:08 PM
I would love to have another great player on the team...

Another?

DukeBlueNV
09-14-2010, 05:10 PM
Personally, I think when you look at the fact he is coming to CTC instead of Late Night its a sign he isn't really that intrested in whats going on down the road... I mean whats going to be going on Oct. 1st at UNC? A football game? Is a tour around campus and a game gonna sell Rivers on UNC? Doubt it.

Is it a done deal? No, but you gotta like the fact he saw us raise our banner at the team banquet and he still wants to come back to see the real thing go up! I think that says a lot about what's going on in Rivers head... Just my opinion but its pretty obvious that all signs are pointing to Duke. Good luck Roy...

DeBlueDevil
09-14-2010, 05:37 PM
IMO....although everyone seems to think AR is a Duke lean and thats fine by me. It still makes me cringe whenever Roy even gets an opportunity to get close to any recruit. I dislike him like most but the man has proven to be one of the best recruiters in recent times.

The whole situation just makes me feel uneasy :confused:

He's kinda like the evil Emperor from Star Wars that has the power to get Skywalker to come to the dark side. haha

NSDukeFan
09-14-2010, 05:43 PM
IMO....although everyone seems to think AR is a Duke lean and thats fine by me. It still makes me cringe whenever Roy even gets an opportunity to get close to any recruit. I dislike him like most but the man has proven to be one of the best recruiters in recent times.

The whole situation just makes me feel uneasy :confused:

He's kinda like the evil Emperor from Star Wars that has the power to get Skywalker to come to the dark side. haha

Just remember, Skywalker didn't go to the dark side. I agree with those that think that as a father, Doc would want Austin to visit UNC and would like him to go there as it is a good school with a great basketball history. I don't know that he would prefer it over Austin playing at the school that has most recently won the national championship for the coach who will soon be the winningest college coach of all time and has just led the US to gold at the world championships, however.
I think Austin should commit to Duke soon as this thread is now the longest in this forum in both replies and views, so he can commit anytime.

Kedsy
09-14-2010, 05:47 PM
Just remember, Skywalker didn't go to the dark side.

He means Anakin Skywalker, aka Darth Vader.

Personally, I don't understand the point of parsing every word and every wardrobe change. Nothing we do or think is going to affect his decision, so what does it matter if we believe he's leaning one way or the other?

flyingdutchdevil
09-14-2010, 05:56 PM
He means Anakin Skywalker, aka Darth Vader.

Personally, I don't understand the point of parsing every word and every wardrobe change. Nothing we do or think is going to affect his decision, so what does it matter if we believe he's leaning one way or the other?

Because its fun to talk about. Because we need to debate between April and October. Because recruiting is the biggest waste of time and yet one of the most enjoyable topics.

Reading about 17-year old kids, and their unpredictable nature, a fantastic break from getting yelled at by your boss and filling in your expenses.

roywhite
09-14-2010, 05:57 PM
He means Anakin Skywalker, aka Darth Vader.

Personally, I don't understand the point of parsing every word and every wardrobe change. Nothing we do or think is going to affect his decision, so what does it matter if we believe he's leaning one way or the other?

Soap opera type attraction. Twists and turns...will he? won't he?

Way back in the day, a bunch of guys in our frat watched "All My Children" every day. When two of the leading characters were married, we had our own little party. Chairs were arranged, so "guests" could sit on the groom's side or the bride's side. As I recall, the "reception" featured a keg. All in good fun.

So when this Austin Rivers recruitment long running saga ends, I think an adult beverage or two would be appropriate. :)

SilkyJ
09-14-2010, 06:09 PM
At this point, I'm not discounting anything. I can see Doc wanting Austin to visit UNC just ot make sure that he's solid with his possible decision with Duke. But do you have support or insigt as to Doc liking UNC more than Duke; and if so, why?

Saying that....I still feel very confident about Duke's position with Austin; but just curious as to whether or not Doc truly prefers UNC over Duke.


I hear you roywhilte and I agree with your line of thinking as well. I just wanted to see if Kong possibly had insight into a different line of thinking (i.e, Doc actually preferring Austin went to Duke over UNC). I definitley see Doc saying "Before you commit to Duke, go to UNC first to make sure this is what you want to do", which would explain why AR would visit UNC first, then Duke the following week as opposed to the other way around. Personally, I think AR would have committed during his visit to Duke if that visit had in fact been the first one.

This is where Tridents (aka Pitchforks) are useful. You're putting an awful lot of stock and doing an awful lot of posting after a post from a trolling UNC fan who in his time on DBR has pretended to be a Duke fan, then turned out not to be, and since has offered little more than trolling bits of info that is ALWAYS UNC-slanted. (And yes, I understand that you made a couple of posts and are just trying to be rationale, so while normally that might be the appropriate amount of worrying, posting, etc. in this case, putting ANY stock in anything this guy says is too much stock, IMO. Trust those you know, like the insiders on OUR board.)

I wouldn't get worked up over anything Kong says. Plenty of DBR posters monitor the IC boards, and if there was something meaningful to read we'd know about it.

kong123
09-14-2010, 06:48 PM
the same source claims that something from AR's camp made today's visit really important. don't know what that means, but the premium board is blowing up with excitement and optimism.

hate me all you want, that is what's happening over there right now and if you don't like it then stop reading my posts. I am not making this stuff up. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would want to know what my enemy was up to. If not, what good is an internet forum? This isn't facebook!

Greg_Newton
09-14-2010, 07:00 PM
the same source claims that something from AR's camp made today's visit really important. don't know what that means, but the premium board is blowing up with excitement and optimism.

hate me all you want, that is what's happening over there right now and if you don't like it then stop reading my posts. I am not making this stuff up. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would want to know what my enemy was up to. If not, what good is an internet forum? This isn't facebook!

I'll admit you have certainly gotten under my skin with some comments in the past, but I appreciate you passing along what you're hearing in this thread. It's up to us to form our own opinions and decide how much salt we take Mr. Lowflight's with, but I like knowing what people are saying.

Plus, there are different ways to interpret what we're hearing. The comment about Doc probably just means he wants to make sure his kid doesn't make the same mistake he did the first time aroud - committing before exploring his options - and even this most recent update could go either way. Perhaps "something important" is K returning to the states and putting the lid on this recruitment, and that's why tonight's in-home is so important. Who knows.

_Gary
09-14-2010, 07:16 PM
I have to say that I'm skittish after last year's recruitment and I have been saying all along that we shouldn't count our chickens before they hatch. But having said all that I'd also have bet the house that Kong would say something positive came out of the visit this evening after mentioning the event earlier today. In fact I'd have been shocked had he come back here with anything remotely "negative" about UNC's chances. So all his latest post does is bring me back to where I was before all this in-home visit stuff started up - I'm neither optimistic nor pessimistic about this recruitment. I'm gonna let it play out and not allow myself to get caught up in it emotionally.

Just my two cents.

WiJoe
09-14-2010, 07:43 PM
The comment about Doc probably just means he wants to make sure his kid doesn't make the same mistake he did the first time around - committing before exploring his options - and even this most recent update could go either way. ...

And don't forget, Jeremiah Rivers left Georgetown and made the mistake of going to Indiana. So there's that.

Jackson
09-14-2010, 07:55 PM
This is starting to remind of last year...not gonna get caught up in it all over again. Somebody tell me how it ends. I'm not reading this thread anymore!

JBDuke
09-14-2010, 07:56 PM
I just deleted another stretch of posts in this thread. I ask you all to do a couple of things:

1. Kong, please don't provoke. I deleted your cheap shot attempt at a joke about Coach K. Weak attempt at humor or not, it's only going to inflame certain posters, and you know it. That's borderline trollish, and it's too common from you. I'm making this warning a public one so that other posters that seem to like to try and call you out will know that we're monitoring the situation. However, thank you for sharing the legitimate scuttlebutt you're reading elsewhere. Please avoid rumor mongering, but if you have a legit source, having something of substance to discuss in this thread makes for a nice change.

2. The rest of you, please don't respond to Kong's jabs. If you think he's crossed a line in a particular post, use the report post feature (the little ref's whistle at the bottom left of each post). That'll alert all of the mods to check it out and see if there's a problem. Note, however, that merely being an open Carolina fan does not make Kong a problem. As long as both sides keep it civil, we encourage participation from fans of other schools around here. Even those that wear that hideous shade of light blue.

MChambers
09-14-2010, 09:04 PM
This is starting to remind of last year...not gonna get caught up in it all over again. Somebody tell me how it ends. I'm not reading this thread anymore!
Well, last year, after Barnes committed to UNC and the experts (and many on this board) said that UNC had surpassed Duke, Duke won the national title and UNC was NIT runner up. Oh, and Coach K coached the world championship team.

I hope Rivers comes to Duke. But, if he doesn't, I think Duke basketball will be fine.

kong123
09-14-2010, 10:15 PM
Why do you say that? Just curious.


I am repeating what I have read over on the IC premium board. The member has great contacts and has delivered the goods many times. It is his opinion and I do not know how he formed it. Take it for what it is worth.

Jderf
09-14-2010, 10:27 PM
I am repeating what I have read over on the IC premium board. The member has great contacts and has delivered the goods many times. It is his opinion and I do not know how he formed it. Take it for what it is worth.

Yea, umm, sorry. I was confused before and thought the last post on a page was also the last in the thread. Now I've caught up and deleted my other post since it was unnecessary. My bad, kong.

As for Austin Rivers, put me in the camp that thinks the whole thing is still up in the air. It is with any recruit. I think that, in recruiting in general, most of the "consensus" as to a recruit's destination is based on one or two quotes from "experts" and various gestures made by the recruit himself -- gestures that can be infinitely interpreted. Then people take this "consensus" (which we fabricated in the first place) and cite it as conclusive evidence. "But everybody knows he's Duke-bound!" It all just seems very circular.

(Of course, the best part is that when the recruit ends up elsewhere, people get mad. "If the recruit went against the consensus [which, again, we fabricated], he must have intentionally misled us!")

NashvilleDevil
09-14-2010, 10:28 PM
the same source claims that something from AR's camp made today's visit really important. don't know what that means, but the premium board is blowing up with excitement and optimism.

Maybe the important thing from Austin's camp is he's telling Roy face to face he's going to Duke and will not be going Chapel Hill for his visit in October. As close as Austin has kept this to the vest I doubt that information is leaking he is now a Carolina lean.

G man
09-15-2010, 01:04 AM
the same source claims that something from AR's camp made today's visit really important. don't know what that means, but the premium board is blowing up with excitement and optimism.

hate me all you want, that is what's happening over there right now and if you don't like it then stop reading my posts. I am not making this stuff up. If the shoe was on the other foot, I would want to know what my enemy was up to. If not, what good is an internet forum? This isn't facebook!

I guess I don't really understand what you are talking about. This is so vague it is not even funny. So can you tell us specifically what they are excited about or is just all rumors. Clarify a little please.

kong123
09-15-2010, 01:08 AM
I guess I don't really understand what you are talking about. This is so vague it is not even funny. So can you tell us specifically what they are excited about or is just all rumors. Clarify a little please.


the only thing I know for sure is that after today's visit, people in the know thinks that AR's recruitment is more open than previously believed. I do not know the specifics, but the insider says that he will update as soon as he gets the OK. Whatever that means!!:cool:

Is it spin? Is it speculation? Perhaps the answer is yes to both, but it gives us something more to talk about.

G man
09-15-2010, 01:24 AM
the only thing I know for sure is that after today's visit, people in the know thinks that AR's recruitment is more open than previously believed. I do not know the specifics, but the insider says that he will update as soon as he gets the OK. Whatever that means!!:cool:

Is it spin? Is it speculation? Perhaps the answer is yes to both, but it gives us something more to talk about.

That is a little more clear. Thanks for cleaning things up for me.

LSanders
09-15-2010, 02:32 AM
My opinion means nothing because it is endowed with nada "inside" info.

However, if there's a true alchemy to coaching, K has figured it out. He's operating on a completely different plane and has been for awhile. I think some of it may be due to the exhilaration of the USA basketball experience.

But ... I think more of it is simply a coalescence of leadership, experience, and talent, much like John Wooden. Wooden coached for decades before all the tumblers fell into place. K's been much more successful along the way, but I think he's entering a truly magical period in his career.

If Rivers was just another super talent from the low-rent side of town, I could see those of the Puke Blue being dangerous. But, K is light-years ahead of Roy as a coach, and that gap is going to grow. Something tells me, Doc is very, very aware of all that. Austin's one recruit my gut tells me is not going to get away.

We'll see.

CLT Devil
09-15-2010, 08:32 AM
That is a little more clear. Thanks for cleaning things up for me.

Per premuim boards on Duke, without breaking the code of repeating what was said over there verbatim, the scoop seems to be that Roy wanted to come visit AR to 'see how serious' his interest level in UNC might be. I totally understand this...when I was going to look at colleges or even writing my admission letters I knew all along where I wanted to go, but still had to visit, write essays and even meet with admissions people at other schools.

Speculation; maybe AR told Roy that he does in fact want to 'be recruited' by UNC. Again, my understanding of the meeting was for Roy toi guage AR's interest and that is all I am willing to guess at. If Roy senses that AR is a lock to Duke then why recruit him? Maybe a face to face helps determine interest level?

I am not trying to speculate too much myself, just summarizing what I have heard from very reliable sources as well, though I have heard nothing about how anything went so I wouldn't get too bothered one way or another on what Kong has to say on how said visit went.

dukeballboy88
09-15-2010, 09:11 AM
Guys you gotta understand, Roy is very desperate right now. There is no telling what he is telling Rivers. Roy is like a used car salesman you know the pitch, "One little old lady had it and drove it to the store!" He is probly telling Austin that he will have to play defense at duke and i will let you sit out of defensive drills at my practices. It is no telling what Roy will do as desperation sets in. If Barnes goes anywhere else Roys looking at 10 wins this season. Dont be suprised if Barnes and Rivers team up to win the 2014 NCAA title cause Roy has a great ability to turn 1 and dones into 4 year players just ask Ty Lawson!

Class of '94
09-15-2010, 09:29 AM
This is where Tridents (aka Pitchforks) are useful. You're putting an awful lot of stock and doing an awful lot of posting after a post from a trolling UNC fan who in his time on DBR has pretended to be a Duke fan, then turned out not to be, and since has offered little more than trolling bits of info that is ALWAYS UNC-slanted. (And yes, I understand that you made a couple of posts and are just trying to be rationale, so while normally that might be the appropriate amount of worrying, posting, etc. in this case, putting ANY stock in anything this guy says is too much stock, IMO. Trust those you know, like the insiders on OUR board.)

I wouldn't get worked up over anything Kong says. Plenty of DBR posters monitor the IC boards, and if there was something meaningful to read we'd know about it.

I hear you SilkyJ; and I agree with you about not getting worked up.....Wasn't my intention to come across in anyway as worrying or having a lack of trust with our posters here on DBR that have credible sources as well; but rather I was very curious about what Kong had to say because it was something that appeared to be different than what we've been hearing; and I was interested in gaining more insight since Kong's posts were vague in the beginning. I, too, don't have a problem with Kong or anyone else posting credible information for discussion.

As far as AR's recruitment is concerned, I think Roy's visit makes it more interesting now; but I like the fact that Coach K is back and as Watzone mentioned earlier, I think things will begin to pick-up between Duke and AR.

kong123
09-15-2010, 09:30 AM
Guys you gotta understand, Roy is very desperate right now. There is no telling what he is telling Rivers. Roy is like a used car salesman you know the pitch, "One little old lady had it and drove it to the store!" He is probly telling Austin that he will have to play defense at duke and i will let you sit out of defensive drills at my practices. It is no telling what Roy will do as desperation sets in. If Barnes goes anywhere else Roys looking at 10 wins this season. Dont be suprised if Barnes and Rivers team up to win the 2014 NCAA title cause Roy has a great ability to turn 1 and dones into 4 year players just ask Ty Lawson!


Wrong on so many fronts, but fairly typical. First, I doubt Roy is bashing Duke in his conversations with the Rivers family. I would imagine he knows that they are seasoned enough to not fall for that sort of stuff. Also, if AR is truly a Duke lock, bashing Duke or even saying something a slight bit negative wouldn't be well received. Just my two cents, but I imagine most logical people would agree with me.

Second, Ty Lawson left after his junior year. I don't think anyone ever considered him a one and done, other than yourself.

sdotbarbee
09-15-2010, 09:39 AM
I mean I completely understand that the AR news is coming from the premium board, but there is absolutley no mention of it on the regular IC. I think if it were that big of news it would have trickled down to there by now.

kong123
09-15-2010, 09:48 AM
I mean I completely understand that the AR news is coming from the premium board, but there is absolutley no mention of it on the regular IC. I think if it were that big of news it would have trickled down to there by now.

There is no news like "AR has announced he is going to UNC", it more a sense of optimism that didn't exist before. And it isn't unusual for this inside info to stay on the Premium board for a while.

dukeballboy88
09-15-2010, 09:49 AM
Ty said he wasted time staying at UNC and he probly would have ben drafted about the same position if would have went after 1.

Roy is desperate right now. He is looking at Duke being preseason #1, being swept twice by K again probly wide margins, and K shutting up all the 2 in 5 talk. Cause 2 in 2is better than 2 in 5 and when that happens the Roy backers wont have anymore ammunition so there is no telling what Roy is feeding the Rivers family. Like i said my money is on Barnes, Mcadoo, Bullock, Marshall and Rivers team up to win the 2014 ncaa title!

sdotbarbee
09-15-2010, 09:57 AM
There is no news like "AR has announced he is going to UNC", it more a sense of optimism that didn't exist before. And it isn't unusual for this inside info to stay on the Premium board for a while.

I just don't know if I buy that, it obviously made it to this board that is pro-Duke, I would think some unc fan would drop it on the free IC board to get everyone on there excited. I mean are we just talking about an in home visit? Are unc fans just excited AR let Roy visit him at home. I guess what I am trying to say is why are unc fans optimistic now?

sdotbarbee
09-15-2010, 09:58 AM
Ty said he wasted time staying at UNC and he probly would have ben drafted about the same position if would have went after 1.

Roy is desperate right now. He is looking at Duke being preseason #1, being swept twice by K again probly wide margins, and K shutting up all the 2 in 5 talk. Cause 2 in 2is better than 2 in 5 and when that happens the Roy backers wont have anymore ammunition so there is no telling what Roy is feeding the Rivers family. Like i said my money is on Barnes, Mcadoo, Bullock, Marshall and Rivers team up to win the 2014 ncaa title!

My wife said the same thing.:D

kong123
09-15-2010, 09:59 AM
[/U][/B]

I just don't know if I buy that, it obviously made it to this board that is pro-Duke, I would think some unc fan would drop it on the free IC board to get everyone on there excited. I mean are we just talking about an in home visit? Are unc fans just excited AR let Roy visit him at home. I guess what I am trying to say is why are unc fans optimistic now?

First, I am not going to post "premium" info on the free board. This would probably get me in trouble with the mods. Doing it here is different.

Class of '94
09-15-2010, 10:00 AM
Just wanted to put this thought out here for discussion. This is by no means meant to further any worry or concern on anyone's part. We had dismissed the impact of Rondo being (or not being) on the team affecting AR's recruitment from a negative standpoint before; but I was wondering if Rondo being cut (or choosing to leave) affected Doc's perception of Coach K and Duke being the right fit for his son, and "possibly" opening up the door a little bit for Roy and UNC. One would think that Doc talked to Rondo about his experiences on the team and maybe Rondo had some negative things to say about Coach K. Now again, this is just a theory and there have been no reports to my knowledge that would suggest that this has happened; and I am of the line of thinking that Doc just wants AR to be thorough in making his decision.

Jderf
09-15-2010, 10:06 AM
Just wanted to put this thought out here for discussion. This is by no means to further any worry or concern on our part. We had dismissed the impact of Rondo being (or not being) on the team before; but I was wondering if the fact that Rondo being cut (or choosing to leave) affected Doc's perception of Coach K and Duke being the right fit for his son. One would think that Doc talked to Rondo about his experiences on the team and maybe Rondo had some negative things to say about Coach K. Now again, this is just a theory and there have been no reports to my knowledge taht would suggest this has happened; and I am of the line of thinking that Doc just wants AR to be thorough in making his decision.

Can't say that it's not possible. But like with anything in recruiting, extremely speculative. But was Rondo even cut? I thought he left for other reasons and on good terms. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't that be basing recruiting speculations on top of USA Basketball tryout speculations? Not exactly solid ground. I'd be worried about a couple of things with Rivers, but not that.

chrisheery
09-15-2010, 10:08 AM
You mean the same Rondo that Doc called "stubborn" and "impossible to coach" as reported by Chad Ford on an ESPN Insider article?

Somehow I doubt that is who he would want as a role model for his son.

BD80
09-15-2010, 10:21 AM
Just wanted to put this thought out here for discussion. This is by no means to further any worry or concern on our part. We had dismissed the impact of Rondo being (or not being) on the team before; but I was wondering if the fact that Rondo being cut (or choosing to leave) affected Doc's perception of Coach K and Duke being the right fit for his son. One would think that Doc talked to Rondo about his experiences on the team and maybe Rondo had some negative things to say about Coach K. Now again, this is just a theory and there have been no reports to my knowledge taht would suggest this has happened; and I am of the line of thinking that Doc just wants AR to be thorough in making his decision.

Let's go with the most likely.

Doc is a FATHER, one who has already seen his teenage son commit to a college and then reconsider.

Let's say that Austin is sold on Duke as is widely reported. It is reasonable for Doc to insist that his son go through the recruiting process with at least one other school to ensure that Austin does not have another change of heart. Sure he wants Austin to make up his own mind - Florida was not a bad choice, carolina would be a good choice, and Duke would be a great choice. Doc just wants his son to to go through the full information gathering and decision making process. He's being a good father.

The cynic in me says that Doc knows ol' roy will truly test Austin's decision to choose Duke, as he will negatively recruit in his good ol' boy backhanded manner - "at Duke you will be held back offensively, Duke doesn't run like we do, Duke doesn't allow their players the freedom we do, blah blah blah."

Frankly I see ol' roy at the in-home with Austin sounding like Lloyd Christmas:

ol' roy: What do you think the chances are of a player like you and a coach like me... ending up together?
Austin: Well, Coach, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
ol' roy: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Austin: Not good.
ol' roy: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Austin: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
ol' roy: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

And the carolina premium board goes wild!

moonpie23
09-15-2010, 10:23 AM
don't underestimate Doc's relationship with K



http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_2.gif






Just wanted to put this thought out here for discussion. This is by no means meant to further any worry or concern on anyone's part. We had dismissed the impact of Rondo being (or not being) on the team affecting AR's recruitment from a negative standpoint before; but I was wondering if Rondo being cut (or choosing to leave) affected Doc's perception of Coach K and Duke being the right fit for his son, and "possibly" opening up the door a little bit for Roy and UNC. One would think that Doc talked to Rondo about his experiences on the team and maybe Rondo had some negative things to say about Coach K. Now again, this is just a theory and there have been no reports to my knowledge that would suggest that this has happened; and I am of the line of thinking that Doc just wants AR to be thorough in making his decision.

Azdukefan
09-15-2010, 10:43 AM
Let's go with the most likely.

Doc is a FATHER, one who has already seen his teenage son commit to a college and then reconsider.

Let's say that Austin is sold on Duke as is widely reported. It is reasonable for Doc to insist that his son go through the recruiting process with at least one other school to ensure that Austin does not have another change of heart. Sure he wants Austin to make up his own mind - Florida was not a bad choice, carolina would be a good choice, and Duke would be a great choice. Doc just wants his son to to go through the full information gathering and decision making process. He's being a good father.

The cynic in me says that Doc knows ol' roy will truly test Austin's decision to choose Duke, as he will negatively recruit in his good ol' boy backhanded manner - "at Duke you will be held back offensively, Duke doesn't run like we do, Duke doesn't allow their players the freedom we do, blah blah blah."

Frankly I see ol' roy at the in-home with Austin sounding like Lloyd Christmas:

ol' roy: What do you think the chances are of a player like you and a coach like me... ending up together?
Austin: Well, Coach, that's difficult to say. I mean, we don't really...
ol' roy: Hit me with it! Just give it to me straight! I came a long way just to see you. The least you can do is level with me. What are my chances?
Austin: Not good.
ol' roy: You mean, not good like one out of a hundred?
Austin: I'd say more like one out of a million.
[pause]
ol' roy: So you're telling me there's a chance... *YEAH!*

And the carolina premium board goes wild!

I have been lurking for a few days and havent responded but have to admit this was brilliant! No insider info here but I don't believe an in home with Huck will help the chances UNC has of landing AR. Once Huck left, Doc and Austin probably looked at each other and wondered if the other understood any that Ole Roy had just said. I know the "other" situation has people worried but I believe K will reel this one in. Thanks BD80 for starting my day off right!!!! GTHC

6th Man
09-15-2010, 11:16 AM
I bet AR and Roy shared a dadgum Coke last night. Then Roy had the family dog kicked out of the house because he had on a Presbyterian dog collar and looked at him wrong. Roy then opened up his laptop and HB got on and Skyped about how wonderful he is. Doc and AR looked at each other in disgust, asked Roy to leave and Ol' Roy broke down and started crying.

This is all from a "not very reliable source" that I can't reveal at this time. :cool:

oldnavy
09-15-2010, 05:52 PM
don't underestimate Doc's relationship with K



http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_2.gif

Yes, and the Gold Medal certainly does not hurt K's status among coaches. I am sure they look at the talent on that USA team and think that only K could have pulled off winning the gold. The man can coach, and Doc knows that and I bet he would like for Austin to learn from the best. Roy is nowhere near the coach that K is. Not sure if this will factor in the decision, but I would like to think that it would.

DevilHorns
09-15-2010, 06:09 PM
I think if coaching was the only question, Doc would be leaning towards K over Roy, hands down.

The MAIN question I am guessing they are weighing is how playing time will differ depending on if he goes to Duke or UNC.

Sure he is such a talent that he'll start regardless where he goes, but who will be backing him up? Who will be potentially taking minutes away? Who will he have to share the limelight with?

Similarly to how K sold KI on how he would commandeer our offense from day 1, I'm guessing Roy had some favorable words for his plans regarding Austin if he so chooses to attend.

SilkyJ
09-15-2010, 06:33 PM
Yes, and the Gold Medal certainly does not hurt K's status among coaches. I am sure they look at the talent on that USA team and think that only K could have pulled off winning the gold.

Not sure I agree here. Coaches have egos too. To assume that none of them thought they could win doesn't sound right to me.

This year, coaches were probably more impressed as compared to 2010 as this was a team of mostly rising stars with only Durant, Billups, Rose and Granger (oddly enough) having been to an All-star game. Still, the team was extremely talented and athletic, way more so than any of their opponents, and were the favorites to win.

I'm sure there are plenty of coaches out there who believe they could have gotten the job done; doesn't mean they are right, but big time coaches have big time egos too.

WiJoe
09-15-2010, 06:47 PM
I'm sure there are plenty of coaches out there who believe they could have gotten the job done; doesn't mean they are right, but big time coaches have big time egos too.

Oh, really? Name two. Look at the history before Coach K, and Jerry Colangelo. Larry Brown? George Karl? Wanna go back to John Thompson?

Name two.

SilkyJ
09-15-2010, 07:17 PM
Oh, really? Name two. Look at the history before Coach K, and Jerry Colangelo. Larry Brown? George Karl? Wanna go back to John Thompson?

Name two.

I don't think you're reading my post correctly, despite bolding it -- I'm not saying there ARE coaches out there who could get it done, I'm saying there are coaches out there who believe themselves to be capable of getting it done.

If you are reading it correctly, how about Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers. How about Hubie Brown. Pat Riley. Scott Brooks. Jeff Van Gandy. Stan Van Gundy.

How about Jim Boeheim, Izzo, Calipari, or Ol Roy for that matter.

You think all of those guys would say "No way I could have gotten gold with that team. Coach K is the only person who could have done that." I've got to imagine at least some if not most believe that with the right amount of training camp, and time to gel, they could have also led this team to gold. Doesn't mean they are right, but coaches have egos.

WiJoe
09-15-2010, 07:31 PM
I don't think you're reading my post correctly, despite bolding it -- I'm not saying there ARE coaches out there who could get it done, I'm saying there are coaches out there who believe themselves to be capable of getting it done.

If you are reading it correctly, how about Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers. How about Hubie Brown. Pat Riley. Scott Brooks. Jeff Van Gandy. Stan Van Gundy.

How about Jim Boeheim, Izzo, Calipari, or Ol Roy for that matter.

You think all of those guys would say "No way I could have gotten gold with that team. Coach K is the only person who could have done that." I've got to imagine at least some if not most believe that with the right amount of training camp, and time to gel, they could have also led this team to gold. Doesn't mean they are right, but coaches have egos.

:cool:

OK. I'll give you that. Ego goes only so far. At some point, you have to get it done. IMO, none of the guys you mentioned would cut it.

(As the thread again come aparts from the needle)

Boeheim. All the talent he has had over the years has not translated to the kind of success he should have had in the NCAA tournament.

Izzo. Too much of the Napoleon complex. Plus, he really teaches football, not basketball. Obviously, I admit he has gotten results though, ugly as they have been. Plus there are some character issues (the felon - Zach Randolph; selling a stolen gun as a teenager)

Calipari. Has never won anything of significance. His reputation alone is an EMBARRASSMENT to the United States of America.

"ol' roy. No chance. See George Karl and Larry Brown.

Not trying to make this heavy handed. As Carly Simon (I'm dating mayself here) sang, Nobody does it better.

SilkyJ
09-15-2010, 07:42 PM
Boeheim.
Izzo.
Calipari.
"ol' roy.


OK, so even if we move to your issue of who can cut it (not who thinks they can cut it), you still ignored the half-dozen or so NBA coaches I mentioned including Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers, who in the last 3 years have a combined 5 Finals appearances and 3 rings.

Now, they'd never take on the gig, but I bet they could get the job done. Beyond them (and maybe Pat Riley and Hubie), I'd start to lose confidence quickly.

WiJoe
09-15-2010, 08:13 PM
OK, so even if we move to your issue of who can cut it (not who thinks they can cut it), you still ignored the half-dozen or so NBA coaches I mentioned including Phil Jackson and Doc Rivers, who in the last 3 years have a combined 5 Finals appearances and 3 rings.

Now, they'd never take on the gig, but I bet they could get the job done. Beyond them (and maybe Pat Riley and Hubie), I'd start to lose confidence quickly.

Should have addressed the NBA guys. Sorry.

I'll say if Phil Jackson was 20 years younger, he might be able to get it done. Doc would be interesting. Riley? Possibly, but too old. Hubie? No; see Karl & L. Brown. Scott Brooks has never won anything, and neither have the Van Gundys. Especially for Brooks and the Van Gundys, the resume does not cut it.

chrisheery
09-15-2010, 08:16 PM
I'll say if Phil Jackson was 20 years younger, he might be able to get it done. Doc would be interesting. Riley? Possibly. Hubie? No; see Karl & L. Brown.

Are you even listening to what he is saying? He is saying that these guys all have huge egos and would believe that they could do it. Your opinion of whether they could do it or not does not have any bearing on whether they think they could.

SilkyJ, I completely agree with you. Very few coaches don't think they are capable of getting any team to win. Even fewer coaches would admit it if they did think that.

_TheFakeJWill_
09-15-2010, 08:27 PM
AR will commit to Duke. No "inside info" here but just a feeling. Trust me i wanted HB more than anyone. First off cause i thought we would need him... little did i know. But deep down inside i had a strong feeling he wouldnt be on our team BUT i def feel like AR will be sporting Duke blue and will persuade Kyrie to come back for another year... mark it down!

MisterRoddy
09-15-2010, 09:58 PM
AR will commit to Duke. No "inside info" here but just a feeling. Trust me i wanted HB more than anyone. First off cause i thought we would need him... little did i know. But deep down inside i had a strong feeling he wouldnt be on our team BUT i def feel like AR will be sporting Duke blue and will persuade Kyrie to come back for another year... mark it down!

You kind've sound like that HeelsChampForever poster over on the IC Forums at Scout. :)

Bluedevil114
09-16-2010, 06:38 AM
I do not have premium access but there is an article on Scout that states Austin Rivers down to three schools. Does that mean Florida is out? He just had an in-home visit with Huck and he has another in-home with Kansas on Saturday night. When is Coach K's in-home visit set for?

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=2&c=1002821&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fscouthoops.scout.com%2f2 %2f1002821.html

JohnGalt
09-16-2010, 07:09 AM
I do not have premium access but there is an article on Scout that states Austin Rivers down to three schools. Does that mean Florida is out? He just had an in-home visit with Huck and he has another in-home with Kansas on Saturday night. When is Coach K's in-home visit set for?

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=2&c=1002821&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fscouthoops.scout.com%2f2 %2f1002821.html

Next Tuesday.


“I’d like to get it done [college decision] before the season starts,” he said. “That’s my goal right now.”

It would appear a final decision isn't too far in the making.

watzone
09-16-2010, 09:47 AM
This one will end by the end of October. Duke is in good shape IMHO.

jimrowe0
09-16-2010, 09:49 AM
I do not have premium access but there is an article on Scout that states Austin Rivers down to three schools. Does that mean Florida is out? He just had an in-home visit with Huck and he has another in-home with Kansas on Saturday night. When is Coach K's in-home visit set for?

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=2&c=1002821&ssf=1&RequestedURL=http%3a%2f%2fscouthoops.scout.com%2f2 %2f1002821.html


In home vist according to BDN is set for Monday with Coach K and Collins. Tweeted a few minutes ago.

kong123
09-16-2010, 10:18 AM
Florida appears to be out.

Dukefan4Life
09-16-2010, 10:33 AM
I dont know if this should fall into another thread or not, but if so it can be moved. I just read AR is down to Duke,Kansas,UNC. I dont know about the rest of you guys but if he picks UNC this will hurt 100 times more than when barnes chose them!

killerleft
09-16-2010, 10:37 AM
I dont know if this should fall into another thread or not, but if so it can be moved. I just read AR is down to Duke,Kansas,UNC. I dont know about the rest of you guys but if he picks UNC this will hurt 100 times more than when barnes chose them!

I don't know about you, but our National Championship healed any wounds and wounded all Heels!!:D And it helps if you don't get too carried away by recruiting threads. Once players get to Duke my interest in them picks up 100-fold.

watzone
09-16-2010, 11:44 AM
In home vist according to BDN is set for Monday with Coach K and Collins. Tweeted a few minutes ago.

It was originally scheduled for Monday but changed to Tuesday last night.

Dukefan4Life
09-16-2010, 11:46 AM
I don't know about you, but our National Championship healed any wounds and wounded all Heels!!:D And it helps if you don't get too carried away by recruiting threads. Once players get to Duke my interest in them picks up 100-fold.

LOL yeah that takes away anything negitive, But this kid is going to be very special! id love to see him where the duke blue!

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2010, 11:57 AM
It was originally scheduled for Monday but changed to Tuesday last night.
Out of curiousity...what do K and Collins talk about with him? If we are the leaders, then obviously the sales pitch has been made and bought into. I'm guessing they just find out if he has anymore questions or concerns. Anyone with a better idea of the recruiting process have any insight into what one of these meetings entail?

mkline09
09-16-2010, 12:21 PM
Out of curiousity...what do K and Collins talk about with him? If we are the leaders, then obviously the sales pitch has been made and bought into. I'm guessing they just find out if he has anymore questions or concerns. Anyone with a better idea of the recruiting process have any insight into what one of these meetings entail?

I would think the selling points of playing with Kyrie (if he stays and there is a good possiblity with the looming labor stoppage in the NBA) which he has said he would like. I'm sure there will be some mention of how he can develop his game for the NBA and eventually Team USA. K's pitch generally seems to be related to what he can do for you. And he has a lot of ammunition to use.

CameronBornAndBred
09-16-2010, 12:35 PM
I would think the selling points of playing with Kyrie (if he stays and there is a good possiblity with the looming labor stoppage in the NBA) which he has said he would like. I'm sure there will be some mention of how he can develop his game for the NBA and eventually Team USA. K's pitch generally seems to be related to what he can do for you. And he has a lot of ammunition to use.
I would assume those points were covered long ago, and I'm guessing they aren't going to continuosly repeat themselves, so what else might the visit cover? This is pretty much what I'm asking..since I'm sure K made a great pitch early on for AR to have listed Duke as the leader for so long.

mkline09
09-16-2010, 12:39 PM
I would assume those points were covered long ago, and I'm guessing they aren't going to continuosly repeat themselves, so what else might the visit cover? This is pretty much what I'm asking..since I'm sure K made a great pitch early on for AR to have listed Duke as the leader for so long.

Well as you yourself said it will most likely be what questions do you have for us if the selling is done. If not then I can imagine a scenario where K reiterates his key points again. Otherwise I'm sure it is a how are you, great job over the summer looking forward to seeing you on CTC sort of discussion.

Not sure how much else can be said at this point especially as Watzone says this could be done in a couple weeks.

jimrowe0
09-16-2010, 12:51 PM
I think that it would be favorable for us if we were the last official visit for Austin. If so, it seems like everything would point to Duke. Granted its not a done deal, but we are in the drivers seat.

JasonEvans
09-16-2010, 12:51 PM
I would assume those points were covered long ago, and I'm guessing they aren't going to continuosly repeat themselves, so what else might the visit cover? This is pretty much what I'm asking..since I'm sure K made a great pitch early on for AR to have listed Duke as the leader for so long.

My bet is that the conversation is about getting to know each other better, getting a better feel and (dare I say it) even a bit of a friendship going. I don't think it is a typical sales pitch, because (as has been noted) Austin already knows much of the Duke sales pitch.

They will probably talk about the World Championships and K will joke around a bit with Doc about not picking Doc's PG to be on the team (perhaps inspiring Rondo to work even harder in the offseason to get better). K almost certainly has some compelling stories to tell about spending a month with Durant and the other guys on the team. They may talk a bit about how school is going for Austin so far and what Austin is doing to improve as a basketball player. K may have some advice in that regard. I could also see K telling Austin something about how pre-pre-season work outs are going for the current Duke team.

I do not say any of this from inside info, just my speculation. But I cannot imagine that these visits are all about an overt sales pitch to the recruit. They are about establishing a rapport and a comfort level between player and his (hopefully) future coach.

-Jason "how cool would it be to sit down with the World Championship Coach and get an hour or two of inside stories on the team!??!?!" Evans

Stray Gator
09-16-2010, 01:02 PM
I would assume those points were covered long ago, and I'm guessing they aren't going to continuosly repeat themselves, so what else might the visit cover? This is pretty much what I'm asking..since I'm sure K made a great pitch early on for AR to have listed Duke as the leader for so long.

If he hasn't already done so, I hope K will give Rivers the same 15-minute descriptive narrative of the last few minutes of the Butler game that he gave at our Class of 1970 Reunion Party in April. Others who have conversed with him individually or heard him speak in a small group setting would generally agree, I believe, that K is an incomparably effective and entertaining communicator. He has an uncanny knack for blending focused intensity with laugh-out-loud humor in conveying a message, which makes him a mesmerizing storyteller. When he relates what he was thinking and what the coaches and players were saying to one another as the action unfolded during those last few minutes of the Butler game, it leaves the audience with a sense of how amazing and exciting and just pure fun the experience of being in that huddle or on the floor or on the bench must have been. I don't know how any recruit who hears K tell the story could resist the desire to become part of that magic.

BD80
09-16-2010, 01:16 PM
My bet is that the conversation is about getting to know each other better, getting a better feel and (dare I say it) even a bit of a friendship going. I don't think it is a typical sales pitch, because (as has been noted) Austin already knows much of the Duke sales pitch.

They will probably talk about the World Championships and K will joke around a bit with Doc about not picking Doc's PG to be on the team (perhaps inspiring Rondo to work even harder in the offseason to get better). K almost certainly has some compelling stories to tell about spending a month with Durant and the other guys on the team. They may talk a bit about how school is going for Austin so far and what Austin is doing to improve as a basketball player. K may have some advice in that regard. I could also see K telling Austin something about how pre-pre-season work outs are going for the current Duke team.

I do not say any of this from inside info, just my speculation. But I cannot imagine that these visits are all about an overt sales pitch to the recruit. They are about establishing a rapport and a comfort level between player and his (hopefully) future coach.

-Jason "how cool would it be to sit down with the World Championship Coach and get an hour or two of inside stories on the team!??!?!" Evans

I would bet this is the full blown "Dog and Pony" show. It will be a detailed plan specifically for Austin, where they see room for Austin to improve, and even a video compilation of Austin in high school and how those skills will be used at Duke (comparing his game clips with similar clips of Duke players). There will be an outline of his academic opportunities, designed to best get him to a degree if he does leave early, or if he chooses to stay more than a year or two. Sure, there will be some kibitzing, but when it comes to this kid, Coach K is going "Tin Cup." There will be no laying up, nothing will be left in the bag - he is going for it all.

uh_no
09-16-2010, 01:41 PM
Sure, there will be some kibitzing, but when it comes to this kid, Coach K is going "Tin Cup." There will be no laying up, nothing will be left in the bag - he is going for it all.

Lets not forget, Tin Cup lost the tournament. Tin Cup could've won if he had layed up. I would hope K would take the action that produces the best chance of winning. If that means laying up, he should lay up.

mkline09
09-16-2010, 01:44 PM
My bet is that the conversation is about getting to know each other better, getting a better feel and (dare I say it) even a bit of a friendship going. I don't think it is a typical sales pitch, because (as has been noted) Austin already knows much of the Duke sales pitch.

They will probably talk about the World Championships and K will joke around a bit with Doc about not picking Doc's PG to be on the team (perhaps inspiring Rondo to work even harder in the offseason to get better). K almost certainly has some compelling stories to tell about spending a month with Durant and the other guys on the team. They may talk a bit about how school is going for Austin so far and what Austin is doing to improve as a basketball player. K may have some advice in that regard. I could also see K telling Austin something about how pre-pre-season work outs are going for the current Duke team.

I do not say any of this from inside info, just my speculation. But I cannot imagine that these visits are all about an overt sales pitch to the recruit. They are about establishing a rapport and a comfort level between player and his (hopefully) future coach.

-Jason "how cool would it be to sit down with the World Championship Coach and get an hour or two of inside stories on the team!??!?!" Evans

K's best pitch his ability to develop relationships with his players. He earns their trust, and confidence that he can impart on them the knowledge and skills to be succesful in basketball and beyond. I think that is what seperates him from just about everyone else. Play for me and I'll teach you the tricks of the trade. Play for K and he will teach you how to be a success.

kong123
09-16-2010, 03:30 PM
Lets not forget, Tin Cup lost the tournament. Tin Cup could've won if he had layed up. I would hope K would take the action that produces the best chance of winning. If that means laying up, he should lay up.

"gimme another ball Romes"

left_hook_lacey
09-16-2010, 04:18 PM
[/U][/B]

I just don't know if I buy that, it obviously made it to this board that is pro-Duke, I would think some unc fan would drop it on the free IC board to get everyone on there excited. I mean are we just talking about an in home visit? Are unc fans just excited AR let Roy visit him at home. I guess what I am trying to say is why are unc fans optimistic now?

There appears to be a gag order on the topic over at IC. I found two threads that were started on the free board. One of the threads someone started on the topic was locked and deleted after only two posts because someone had apparently posted content from the premium site about the visit.

The other thread was just repetitive questions such as "why is no one talking about the in-house visit with Rivers" or even more out of touch questions such as "didn't we have an in-house visit with Rivers last night?"

Not sure what any of this mean, just trying to explain why any "big news" about the visit may not have trickled down to the free boards yet. It seems the IC premium boards are dedicated to protecting its subscribers investment, with good reason I suppose.

Bluedevil114
09-16-2010, 04:28 PM
Lets not forget, Tin Cup lost the tournament. Tin Cup could've won if he had layed up. I would hope K would take the action that produces the best chance of winning. If that means laying up, he should lay up.

Yes but remember Tin Cup did get the best thing in the end and that was the girl.

In this case K has already won the tournament and now it is time to use that tournament win to go get the best thing..........Austin so he can win another tournament.

SilkyJ
09-16-2010, 04:29 PM
^I'm officially creeped out by the Tin Cup analogy.

BD80
09-16-2010, 04:52 PM
Lets not forget, Tin Cup lost the tournament. Tin Cup could've won if he had layed up. I would hope K would take the action that produces the best chance of winning. If that means laying up, he should lay up.

Tin Cup ended up with Renee Russo. It is important to keep track of what you are shooting for.

Besides, Coach K will hit it smooth the first time: in K we trust!

MarkD83
09-16-2010, 06:01 PM
Tin Cup ended up with Renee Russo.

The last time my son and I played golf we only used 7 irons. It does not help your golf score so don't try it.

Duke: A Dynasty
09-16-2010, 08:28 PM
ive heard Duke has an in home visit coming up with Rivers and family on tuesday

chrisheery
09-16-2010, 08:30 PM
ive heard Duke has an in home visit coming up with Rivers and family on tuesday

A lot of people have heard that. I think it is true.

SilkyJ
09-16-2010, 08:31 PM
ive heard Duke has an in home visit coming up with Rivers and family on tuesday

Where ever did you hear such a thing? :rolleyes:


In home vist according to BDN is set for Monday with Coach K and Collins. Tweeted a few minutes ago.


It was originally scheduled for Monday but changed to Tuesday last night.

tommy
09-17-2010, 04:03 PM
Not surprising, but I guess it qualifies as news. Per Zags, Austin has eliminated Florida from consideration, leaving Duke, UNC and Kansas in the game.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/09/17/austin-rivers-down-to-3-schools/#more-39720

DukeBlueNV
09-17-2010, 04:40 PM
Not surprising, but I guess it qualifies as news. Per Zags, Austin has eliminated Florida from consideration, leaving Duke, UNC and Kansas in the game.

http://www.zagsblog.com/2010/09/17/austin-rivers-down-to-3-schools/#more-39720

I actually like the quote from Rivers about Roy's visit:


Roy was good,” Rivers said. “We talked about what he sees me doing there and about North Carolina.”

Sounds like he REALLY impressed... :rolleyes:

BD80
09-17-2010, 05:21 PM
I actually like the quote from Rivers about Roy's visit:


Roy was good,” Rivers said. “We talked about what he sees me doing there and about North Carolina.”

Sounds like he REALLY impressed... :rolleyes:

I LOVE that comment. He acknowledged ol' roy's effectiveness as a recruiter, as should we all - he IS good. But we don't have to admire or respect him.

ol' roy is "good" like the lounge lizard plying the recent divorcee with her 5th Cosmopolitan. He is effective, but we don't want to be anything like that or be associated with anything like that.

nmduke2001
09-17-2010, 05:38 PM
I like that he called him "Roy". If it went well, wouldn't he call him coach?

Lord Ash
09-17-2010, 06:57 PM
I like that he called him "Roy". If it went well, wouldn't he call him coach?

BAFFLES me. I cannot imagine ever calling any of my coaches, and CERTAINLY not a coach of a team I was not a member of, by their first name. Way disrespectful... will be very interested to see if Austin refers to Coach K as "Mike."

oldnavy
09-17-2010, 07:12 PM
BAFFLES me. I cannot imagine ever calling any of my coaches, and CERTAINLY not a coach of a team I was not a member of, by their first name. Way disrespectful... will be very interested to see if Austin refers to Coach K as "Mike."

Maybe he heard Roy refer to himself as Roy so many times during the in house, that it just felt natural. :cool:

MChambers
09-17-2010, 08:38 PM
Maybe he heard Roy refer to himself as Roy so many times during the in house, that it just felt natural. :cool:

Wouldn't he have said "Ol' Roy" then? And probably thrown in a dadgum or two.

MarkD83
09-17-2010, 08:59 PM
Wouldn't he have said "Ol' Roy" then? And probably thrown in a dadgum or two.

Maybe the "alleged" excitement on the IC premium board was that Austin called Coach Williams "Roy" instead of "dadgum Roy".

wilko
09-18-2010, 02:37 PM
All we can do at this point is Hope that the Austin and the Rivers family have recruiting tastes that run more along the lines of something like this:

http://www.polana.com/images/uploads/810410.jpg

As oppsed to ...say... something like this..

http://i.walmartimages.com/i/p/00/68/11/31/18/0068113118371_215X215.jpg

I know what I'd prefer... The choice is clear.


And to chime in on the other point...

I'll vote for this:
http://mcaaron.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/rene-russo-1.jpg

over this..
http://buy.lovetoknow.com/wiki/images/Buy/thumb/4/46/TinCup.jpg/250px-TinCup.jpg

any day of the week.

DukeBlueNikeShox
09-18-2010, 03:37 PM
BAFFLES me. I cannot imagine ever calling any of my coaches, and CERTAINLY not a coach of a team I was not a member of, by their first name. Way disrespectful... will be very interested to see if Austin refers to Coach K as "Mike."

Why do you think it's common for females to call their coach by their first names, but it's uncommon for males to do so?

grossbus
09-18-2010, 04:21 PM
I bet if tin cup had won the open, he would have still won the girl.

JasonEvans
09-20-2010, 09:30 AM
I bet if tin cup had won the open, he would have still won the girl.

The final hole of the Open in that movie is one of my favorite sports-movie moments of all time. Watch it here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmlwGAMpjrM)

The seven-iron bet (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vygFotutz7Y&NR=1) is also a classic!

--Jason "the greatest 12 ever!" Evans

Class of '94
09-20-2010, 10:55 AM
Has anyone heard how the Kansas-coaching staff in-home visit with Austin went this past weekend and if he has set an official visit date for Kansas?

tydotscott
09-20-2010, 11:14 AM
So I don't know how reliable this Kansas site is, but they seem to think the Rivers in-home visit went really well.

http://theshiver.com/2010/09/ku-knocks-it-out-of-the-park-with-rivers-visit-will-happen/#more-12344

dcdevil2009
09-20-2010, 11:31 AM
If I'm out of line with this, please let me know, but has anyone heard of an in home visit that didn't go well? Granted it's likely a big factor in a recruit's decision, but I have a hard time placing a lot of stock in reports that a visit went really well. It just seems like one of those things where a recruit would have no reason to say it went poorly, and obviously a recruiter wouldn't admit that it was anything less than positive. That being said, I still hope reports about our visit with him say that it went "really well" and would have rather heard that his UNC in-home was a complete disaster. I'd love to see Austin in the better shade of blue next year and would hate to lose him to Roy's current or former school.

Spam Filter
09-20-2010, 11:57 AM
If I'm out of line with this, please let me know, but has anyone heard of an in home visit that didn't go well? Granted it's likely a big factor in a recruit's decision, but I have a hard time placing a lot of stock in reports that a visit went really well. It just seems like one of those things where a recruit would have no reason to say it went poorly, and obviously a recruiter wouldn't admit that it was anything less than positive. That being said, I still hope reports about our visit with him say that it went "really well" and would have rather heard that his UNC in-home was a complete disaster. I'd love to see Austin in the better shade of blue next year and would hate to lose him to Roy's current or former school.

Kyrie Irving's inhome with Indiana went so poorly that they went from his leaders to being ruled out afterward.

DukieBoy
09-20-2010, 12:10 PM
Kyrie Irving's inhome with Indiana went so poorly that they went from his leaders to being ruled out afterward.

That's something I didn't know and something that makes me highly upset as an IU student

Class of '94
09-20-2010, 02:41 PM
So I don't know how reliable this Kansas site is, but they seem to think the Rivers in-home visit went really well.

http://theshiver.com/2010/09/ku-knocks-it-out-of-the-park-with-rivers-visit-will-happen/#more-12344

I don't want to sound as if I'm underestimating how well Kansas' visit with Austin went; but after reading that link, I'm not really worried about Kansas. He said things went really well; but while he says he will visit Kansas, Austin did not set a date for the visit and I was surprised that he didn't set one during the his in-home meeting with Kansas coaching staff if he was really serious about setting up an Official Visit, especially considering the in-home visit was supposedly to have went "really well". Combined that with the fact that Coach K and Coach Collins are coming in for an in-home vist tomorrow evening and if he doesn't set a Official visit date prior to Duke's official visit, I don't see Austin visitng Kansas at all unless it's prior to Duke Official Visit. Like many posters have said before, I think that if the in-home visit goes really well tomorrow and his Official Visit to Duke goes extremely well (as planned), I can see Austin ending his recruitment shortly thereafter and making his choice of Duke official.

dukeballboy88
09-20-2010, 02:49 PM
im telling you guys, the unc fans are glowing with confidence all of a sudden. one even said to me "rivers to unc, book it, roy owns k!" and a month a go he was saying "rivers wont be a duke but 1 year"!

Their chest are out and the im better than you grin is all over their faces, they are confient rivers has committed allready!

I own a restaurant so i see hoards of goathead fans and they have all come in to tell me k lost another one to roy!

Cockabeau
09-20-2010, 03:02 PM
Kyrie Irving's inhome with Indiana went so poorly that they went from his leaders to being ruled out afterward.


Thats because they pressured KI into a commit. IU knew that their chances of landing him slim at that point -with the Duke machine and UK with Rod strickland in hot pursuit.

Kedsy
09-20-2010, 03:22 PM
im telling you guys, the unc fans are glowing with confidence all of a sudden. one even said to me "rivers to unc, book it, roy owns k!" and a month a go he was saying "rivers wont be a duke but 1 year"!

Their chest are out and the im better than you grin is all over their faces, they are confient rivers has committed allready!

I own a restaurant so i see hoards of goathead fans and they have all come in to tell me k lost another one to roy!

Well, I have no idea how this is going to come down, but my question to them is how would they know?

You think Austin told them? Or Roy? If anybody in the know were talking out of school like that, it would have been picked up elsewhere.

I've never believed he was in the bag for us, but I don't know why anybody would think he was in the bag for them, now. Whatever happens is going to happen and we won't know until it does.

kong123
09-20-2010, 03:43 PM
I realize that I took a ton of crap for saying this earlier in the month, but from everything I hear, Doc wants his son to go to UNC. I will not quote from the sources, but a week after UNC in-home and now a lot UNC people think we have a great shot at AR. Perhaps, even a better shot than Duke. Airowe, can you tell us what you have heard? Is this all unfounded speculation or are you hearing this too?

Faison1
09-20-2010, 03:50 PM
I realize that I took a ton of crap for saying this earlier in the month, but from everything I hear, Doc wants his son to go to UNC. I will not quote from the sources, but a week after UNC in-home and now a lot UNC people think we have a great shot at AR. Perhaps, even a better shot than Duke. Airowe, can you tell us what you have heard? Is this all unfounded speculation or are you hearing this too?

A month ago you were telling us that Roy was giving up. I defended you. Now you're telling us something different. I understand things change, but c'mon! This is getting redickulous.

Class of '94
09-20-2010, 04:10 PM
im telling you guys, the unc fans are glowing with confidence all of a sudden. one even said to me "rivers to unc, book it, roy owns k!" and a month a go he was saying "rivers wont be a duke but 1 year"!

Their chest are out and the im better than you grin is all over their faces, they are confient rivers has committed allready!

I own a restaurant so i see hoards of goathead fans and they have all come in to tell me k lost another one to roy!

Without getting too deep into this in terms of determining whether or not this is true, I would like to point out that KU reps supposedly felt good after leaving their in-home visit with Austin; and Duke has not met with Austin yet. Duke will get their shot tomorrow; and will have the opportunity to debunk anything Ol' Roy or Kansas might have said or done. Even if Doc is high on Austin going to UNC (and I'm not saying that he is nor believe it to be true), I think Coach K and Collins will present an impressive presentation to Austin and his family that will give Doc something to think about.

airowe
09-20-2010, 04:22 PM
I realize that I took a ton of crap for saying this earlier in the month, but from everything I hear, Doc wants his son to go to UNC. I will not quote from the sources, but a week after UNC in-home and now a lot UNC people think we have a great shot at AR. Perhaps, even a better shot than Duke. Airowe, can you tell us what you have heard? Is this all unfounded speculation or are you hearing this too?

No, I can't tell you what I've heard. No, I'm not hearing that too. uncatown and mercedesbenz2010 don't exactly have the greatest track record over the last year, do they? Has mario been right lately? At all?

DukeBlueNV
09-20-2010, 04:30 PM
I realize that I took a ton of crap for saying this earlier in the month, but from everything I hear, Doc wants his son to go to UNC. I will not quote from the sources, but a week after UNC in-home and now a lot UNC people think we have a great shot at AR. Perhaps, even a better shot than Duke. Airowe, can you tell us what you have heard? Is this all unfounded speculation or are you hearing this too?

Okay Kong we heard this allready... Doc wants Austin at UNC. Why though? Honestly I find that hard to believe... they have (by my count) 4 players at his position, including a top player in the 2011 class in Hariston, so it can't be because he thinks he fits-in with the roster. Is it because of the system? Maybe.. but Duke also runs an uptempo system when they have the players. Coaching? Doubt it, K is miles ahead of Roy when it comes to accomplishments as a coach. A chance to win? Maybe... but a lot of NBA talent is leaving with Barnes and Henson and I'd take Duke's roster with him over UNC's. I'd bet he just wants Austin to take an honest look at the Heels and not jump into a commitment with Duke like he did with Florida. And that is being misinterpreted as him preferring him going to UNC.

moonpie23
09-20-2010, 04:36 PM
all of this is making me get the "state of the sinking feeling".......i don't know if i can endure this, so i'm gonna just stay outta here and look for that thread that says:

"Austin Rivers to ________________ !"

I'm hoping that reads "DUKE"....

http://ui32.gamespot.com/479/702headbanginstick_2.gif

nmduke2001
09-20-2010, 06:27 PM
Although it is fun to speculate, I learned with Barnes that nobody knows until you hear the words coming out of the kid’s mouth. If AR goes elsewhere, I hope we have similar results as the last time we got bad recruiting news…we won the next National Championship.

CharlestonDevil
09-20-2010, 06:28 PM
Okay Kong we heard this allready... Doc wants Austin at UNC. Why though? Honestly I find that hard to believe... they have (by my count) 4 players at his position, including a top player in the 2011 class in Hariston, so it can't be because he thinks he fits-in with the roster. Is it because of the system? Maybe.. but Duke also runs an uptempo system when they have the players. Coaching? Doubt it, K is miles ahead of Roy when it comes to accomplishments as a coach. A chance to win? Maybe... but a lot of NBA talent is leaving with Barnes and Henson and I'd take Duke's roster with him over UNC's. I'd bet he just wants Austin to take an honest look at the Heels and not jump into a commitment with Duke like he did with Florida. And that is being misinterpreted as him preferring him going to UNC.

As I recall it was after an unofficial visit to Durham that began the speculation about AR's committment to FL...

If Doc wanted Austin to go to Chapel Hill he would have sent him to talk to Roy rather than to drop in on Coach K.

kong123
09-20-2010, 09:08 PM
I believe Doc was trying to win a NBA Championship at the time AR visited Durham, wasn't he? Now that he appears to be more involved, UNC is more in the picture. Is this because he wants AR to look under every rock before making a decision? Or, does Doc see the value of having the UNC stamp of approval when entering the NBA? The next few months should be exciting! And, because of the recruitment of HB, everyone is crawling out of their skin.

Lord Ash
09-20-2010, 09:20 PM
I believe Doc was trying to win a NBA Championship at the time AR visited Durham, wasn't he? Now that he appears to be more involved, UNC is more in the picture. Is this because he wants AR to look under every rock before making a decision? Or, does Doc see the value of having the UNC stamp of approval when entering the NBA? The next few months should be exciting! And, because of the recruitment of HB, everyone is crawling out of their skin.

Uhmmm... that has been more a curse than a stamp of approval over the last 15 or so years...

Newton_14
09-20-2010, 09:23 PM
I believe Doc was trying to win a NBA Championship at the time AR visited Durham, wasn't he? Now that he appears to be more involved, UNC is more in the picture. Is this because he wants AR to look under every rock before making a decision? Or, does Doc see the value of having the UNC stamp of approval when entering the NBA? The next few months should be exciting! And, because of the recruitment of HB, everyone is crawling out of their skin.

So Kong, an honest question here. If Doc were your everyday John Doe with Austin as a son, I could see where dad may be a longtime fan of one of the big name schools and would likely want to see his son attend the school dad has been rooting for all of his life. That makes sense.

However, Doc Rivers is a former college and NBA player, and is now a NBA Title winning coach who knows all of the ins and outs of college hoops and surely knows the difference between the truly great college programs vs the average vs. the poor.

That said, Doc Rivers likely knows in great depth, that all 3 of the programs Austin is now looking at (Duke, Kansas, Unc) are all great programs who have each won a National Title in the last 3 years and who regularly send players to the NBA.

So the question is, why would a father like Doc, care one way or the other, which one of the 3 that Austin chooses?

I look at this the totally opposite way than some in that I feel Doc respects his son enough that he would not try to push him in one direction or the other with the 3 finalists. I think he would simply say: "I am pleased with your final 3, well done son, now choose the one that feels right to you and I am with you 100%".

Pushing Austin to either of the 3 would be selfish on Doc's part and he just does not strike me as that type of man.

DevilHorns
09-20-2010, 09:33 PM
Or, does Doc see the value of having the UNC stamp of approval when entering the NBA?

I can only insinuate that you think Doc believes Duke doesn't have that same "stamp of approval" (whatever that really means?). Here's a little list of Duke players vs UNC players in the league right now. I'll let your brain rattle that one for a while.

DUKE PLAYERS

Corey Maggette
Carlos Boozer
Luol Deng
Elton Brand
Chris Duhon
Grant Hill
Shane Battier
JJ Redick
Dahntay Jones
Gerald Henderson
Shelden Williams
Josh McRoberts
Mike Dunleavy
Shavlik Randolph

UNC PLAYERS

Antawn Jamison
Vince Carter
Marvin Williams
Raymond Felton
Brandan Wright
Brendan Haywood
Jawad Williams
Tyler Hansbrough
Danny Green
Ty Lawson
Wayne Ellington
Ed Davis

jipops
09-20-2010, 09:35 PM
So Kong, an honest question here. If Doc were your everyday John Doe with Austin as a son, I could see where dad may be a longtime fan of one of the big name schools and would likely want to see his son attend the school dad has been rooting for all of his life. That makes sense.

However, Doc Rivers is a former college and NBA player, and is now a NBA Title winning coach who knows all of the ins and outs of college hoops and surely knows the difference between the truly great college programs vs the average vs. the poor.

That said, Doc Rivers likely knows in great depth, that all 3 of the programs Austin is now looking at (Duke, Kansas, Unc) are all great programs who have each won a National Title in the last 3 years and who regularly send players to the NBA.

So the question is, why would a father like Doc, care one way or the other, which one of the 3 that Austin chooses?

I look at this the totally opposite way than some in that I feel Doc respects his son enough that he would not try to push him in one direction or the other with the 3 finalists. I think he would simply say: "I am pleased with your final 3, well done son, now choose the one that feels right to you and I am with you 100%".

Pushing Austin to either of the 3 would be selfish on Doc's part and he just does not strike me as that type of man.

I have to concur with Boozer here. The tarheel hopes appear to hinge on a perception of what Doc wants. Practically speaking, what would Doc have in favor or against any of the 3? Does Doc feel it's important for Austin to be allowed to dance before games? :) K has the in-home visit with Austin tomorrow. More speculation to evolve I'm sure...

kong123
09-20-2010, 10:32 PM
you can joke around all you want. you can say you miss when the rivalry was good, which sounds funny but in reality is far from true.

The truth is, UNC is the most popular school in the country. Look at the merch sales over the last few years. Perhaps the reason we have so few pros in NBA is due to the Guthridge years? When it comes to All-Star games and NBA Championships, Duke falls way behind UNC. When it comes to superstar players, Duke has had only 1, Grant Hill. Unfortunately, he had health problems that hurt his chances of being an all-time great pro. UNC has two well-respected coaches in the NBA. UNC players have had more endorsements. Sure, MJ makes up quite a bit of that, but Stackhouse and VC had a pretty good run in their career. I think Lawson will one day be an all-star. :cool:

It was also mentioned that UNC, as a basketball family, is much larger and much more involved than Duke's alums. You always hear of the long list of Pro's that come back each summer to play in the Smith Center. I think those are big differences. And, since you state that Doc is a vet and knows the NBA... well, he knows these things. In the end, he will let his son choose where he wants to go school. What I find so interesting is how open this recruitment seems to be. Just a few weeks ago, I didn't care or want AR to go to UNC. Partially, because I thought he was a Duke lock. Ultimately, I think he will create issues for the players already on the UNC roster. Duke could also be recruiting over a player or two? But, if the coach wants him and the coach can get him, I will worry about all of those things later!:cool:

DevilHorns
09-20-2010, 10:49 PM
It was also mentioned that UNC, as a basketball family, is much larger and much more involved than Duke's alums. You always hear of the long list of Pro's that come back each summer to play in the Smith Center. I think those are big differences.

This is a flat-out ignorant statement. Duke has many alumni that stay continuously involved with the program. For example, many alumni act as coaches during Coach K's Basketball camp. Many alumni, such as Grant Hill and Christian Laettner, endow scholarships for future basketball players. Where did Jason Williams go to rehab after his motorcycle accident? Where does JJ Redick practice during the off-season? Don't remember the story about Duke alumni taking on the 2010 team prior to the season? Go to dukeblueplanet.com and just surf around for a while. You'll see that Duke's family is as strong as (or perhaps stronger) than UNC's. Look on our bench at the staff. All rooted in the program. Do you want me to collect all the quotations from this past year referencing our championship run? Boozer, Dunleavy, Battier, Jones, the list goes on and on. Once a devil always a devil.

Sometimes you have to take off the tinted glasses. UNC has a great storied basketball program. But they are definitely not alone in that description. And there are no Duke alumni that I feel disgrace the program. You guys have the unwanted stepchildren that IMHO taint your "pristine" program: Rasheed Wallace, Rashad McCants, and Vince Carter to name a few.

kong123
09-20-2010, 10:53 PM
Rashaad McCants is a disappointment because he couldn't control his personality. Rasheed, he is a well respected basketball player who got a lot of T's. I do not think he is a disgrace to the University. And VC? One of the most popular basketball player of the past 20 years is a disgrace? Take off your glasses and look again.

Lord Ash
09-20-2010, 10:56 PM
attack the post, not the poster.

is there any area in particular that I am wrong?

Most of them. Wrong about Duke having only 1 superstar player, wrong about some UNC players from 25 years ago making a bit of difference with where a high school kid will play ball, wrong about not having many NBA players over the last 20 years because of a coach who was around for about three years, wrong about UNC being any more of a "family" than Duke, wrong about Doc Rivers "knowing" any of the ridiculous things you said, wrong that you didn't want Austin Rivers at UNC "partially" because he seemed like a Duke lean, wrong about Duke recruiting over any players...

Truly a typical "Worst kind of Carolina post."

Stray Gator
09-20-2010, 11:01 PM
... The truth is, UNC is the most popular school in the country. Look at the merch sales over the last few years.

Actually, according to the Collegiate Licensing Company, the University of North Carolina ranked 6th in merchandise sales for the 2007-08 fiscal year, the 2008-09 fiscal year, and the first three quarters of 2010:

(1.) The University of Texas at Austin
(2.) University of Florida
(3.) University of Georgia
(4.) Louisiana State University
(5.) The University of Alabama
(6.) University of North Carolina

http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishing.nsf/Content/rankings.html

DevilHorns
09-20-2010, 11:02 PM
Rashaad McCants is a disappointment because he couldn't control his personality. Rasheed, he is a well respected basketball player who got a lot of T's. I do not think he is a disgrace to the University. And VC? One of the most popular basketball player of the past 20 years is a disgrace? Take off your glasses and look again.

Rasheed got a lot of T's? How about the NBA's all time leader in technical fouls. Now he did have some good stats in his prime. The question for you is, are you proud of how he represented himself as a Tar Heel in the league? If its only stats that you care about, then uh, sure, he's a great alum.

And regarding VC... thats where I guess Duke and UNC fans differ. I'm not saying VC wasn't popular. I'm not saying he wasn't super-talented, and in his prime, a dominant force in the league stacking up that stats for a mediocre team. What I am saying is that he has a reputation for quitting on his team in the NBA. Ask Raptors fans. I am claiming that he does taint the perception of players UNC produces.

chrisheery
09-20-2010, 11:02 PM
How's Sean May holding up?

Aside from Lawson, who has an outside shot at being an all-star, name one other UNC player who has a shot at being an all-star in the next 3 years. There are none. This is a myth. UNC gets by on Jordan and Worthy. Vince is the definition of letting talent go to waste, ask any NBA fan who is not a Carolina fan. That is more of a detriment to UNC than a positive. Sheed is embarrassing by any account. Stackhouse was too selfish until he got old and started playing as a team player, but he was never ever great. If anything the professional turnout has taken a downturn under Roy. Those are all facts.

As to Austin Rivers, who cares what we or UNC fans think. None of our conjecture will determine the outcome. Letting a troll get under your skin is a waste of time. Why not just check back in a month is this is really worrying you? You'll be better off.

kong123
09-20-2010, 11:03 PM
1985 Buzz Peterson 7th 8 147 Cleveland Cavaliers
1986 Brad Daugherty 1st 1 1 Cleveland Cavaliers
1986 Warren Martin 4th 3 73 Cleveland Cavaliers
1986 Steve Hale 4th 11 81 New Jersey Nets
1987 Kenny Smith 1st 6 6 Sacramento Kings
1987 Joe Wolf 1st 13 13 Los Angeles Clippers
1987 Dave Popson 4th 19 88 Detroit Pistons
1987 Curtis Hunter 7th 18 156 Denver Nuggetts
1989 J.R. Reid 1st 5 5 Charlotte Hornets
1991 Rick Fox 1st 24 24 Boston Celtics
1991 Pete Chilcutt 1st 27 27 Sacramento Kings
1992 Hubert Davis 1st 20 20 New York Knicks
1993 George Lynch 1st 12 12 Los Angeles Lakers
1994 Eric Montross 1st 9 9 Boston Celtics
1995 Jerry Stackhouse 1st 3 3 Philadelphia 76ers
1995 Rasheed Wallace 1st 4 4 Washington Bullets
1996 Jeff McInnis 2nd 8 37 Denver Nuggetts
1997 Serge Zwikker 2nd 1 29 Houston Rockets
1998 Antawn Jamison 1st 4 4 Toronto Raptors
1998 Vince Carter 1st 5 5 Golden State Warriors
1998 Shammond Williams 2nd 5 34 Chicago Bulls
2001 Brendan Haywood 1st 20 20 Cleveland Cavaliers
2001 Joseph Forte 1st 21 21 Boston Celtics
2005 Marvin Williams 1st 2 2 Atlanta Hawks
2005 Raymond Felton 1st 5 5 Charlotte Bobcats
2005 Sean May 1st 13 13 Charlotte Bobcats
2005 Rashad McCants 1st 14 14 Minnesota Timberwolves
2006 David Noel 2nd 9 39 Milwaukee Bucks
2007 Brandan Wright 1st 8 8 Charlotte Bobcats
2007 Reyshawn Terry 2nd 14 44 Orlando Magic
2009 Tyler Hansbrough 1st 13 13 Indiana Pacers
2009 Ty Lawson 1st 18 18 Minnesota Timberwolves
2009 Wayne Ellington 1st 28 28 Minnesota Timberwolves
2009 Danny Green 2nd 16 46 Cleveland Cavaliers
2010 Ed Davis 1st 13 13 Toronto Raptors

MulletMan
09-20-2010, 11:04 PM
Children,

(And yes, I am using that term because of the way you're behaving...)

Please refrain from pointless posts, personal attacks, baiting and general posting of gibberish and nonsense. If you'd like to have a rational discussion, fine. However, please keep it to the topic at hand (for this particular thread, that would be Austin Rivers' recruitment, by the way) or I'll come back and delete some more posts. Next time I might give out some fun little infractions... haven't done that in a while, but there's always time to change.

Thanks. Carry on.

-Mullet

kong123
09-20-2010, 11:05 PM
Actually, according to the Collegiate Licensing Company, the University of North Carolina ranked 6th in merchandise sales for the 2007-08 fiscal year, the 2008-09 fiscal year, and the first three quarters of 2010:

(1.) The University of Texas at Austin
(2.) University of Florida
(3.) University of Georgia
(4.) Louisiana State University
(5.) The University of Alabama
(6.) University of North Carolina

http://www.clc.com/clcweb/publishing.nsf/Content/rankings.html

i should have specified men's basketball. its obvious that all of those schools are football schools.

JasonEvans
09-20-2010, 11:17 PM
Ya'll should all be glad that Mullet got to this thread before I did or there would be multiple infractions handed out. You all have been warned and a ton of posts have been deleted. Keep it on topic. Stop sniping at each other. This applies to both UNC and Duke fans. No one who has posted in this thread lately looks all that good (aside from Stray, who brought facts to the table to refute an ill-informed post).

--Jason "the Mods are about to bring the heat" Evans

DevilHorns
09-20-2010, 11:52 PM
And to now break the ice in what has become an awkward state of affairs, some eye candy!:

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c54102/x2_1ca5301

moonpie23
09-21-2010, 12:04 AM
i should have specified men's basketball. its obvious that all of those schools are football schools.

the pedals do go backwards, don't they kong? ;)


i am lifting some nifty stat work from NCCUknow @ The Devil's den so i will LINK (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=167&f=1386&t=6380176) first,

Kong, in a head to head competition, k dominates roy in just about every statistic and almost all of them with regard to nba talent.

Please point out what Doc should look at to NOT see K as head and shoulders over Roy in NBA draft development .......throw in Olympic Gold, TWICE as many National Titles, and now a World Championship and it's not even close...

Roy Williams

(1990) #34 Kevin Pritchard

(1991) #26 Mark Randall

(1993) #16 Rex Walters

(1993) #42 Adonis Jordan

(1994) #38 Darrin Hancock

(1995) #28 Greg Ostertag

(1997) #19 Scott Pollard

(1997) #27 Jacque Vaughn

(1998) #3 Raef LaFrentz

(1998) #10 Paul Pierce

(1999) #45 Ryan Robertson

(2001) #43 Eric Chenowith
(2003) #4 Drew Gooden

(2003) #7 Kirk Hinrich

(2003) #12 Nick Collison

(2005) #2 Marvin Williams

(2005) #5 Raymond Felton

(2005) #13 Sean May

(2005) #14 Rashad McCants

(2006) #39 David Noel

(2007) #8 Brandan Wright

(2007) #44 Reyshawn Terry

(2009) #13 Tyler Hansbrough

(2009) #18 Ty Lawson

(2009) #28 Wayne Ellington

(2009) #46 Danny Green

(2010) #13 Ed Davis


Mike Krzyzewski

(1986) #10 Johnny Dawkins

(1986) #18 Mark Alarie

(1986) #58 David Henderson

(1989) #2 Danny Ferry 

(1990) #25 Alaa Abdelnaby

(1990) #49 Phil Henderson 

(1992) #3 Christian Laettner

(1992) #48 Brian Davis 

(1993) #7 Bobby Hurley

(1993) #39 Thomas Hill 

(1994) #3 Grant Hill

(1994) #39 Antonio Lang 

(1995) #12 Cherokee Parks

(1995) #41 Eric Meek

(1998) #20 Roshown Mcleod

(1999) #1 Elton Brand

(1999) #11 Trajan Langdon

(1999) #13 Corey Maggette

(1999) #14 William Avery

(2000) #41 Chris Carrawell 

(2001) #6 Shane Battier

(2002) #2 Jay Williams

(2002) #3 Mike Dunleavy Jr.

(2002) #35 Carlos Boozer 

(2003) #20 Dahntay Jones

(2004) #7 Luol Deng

(2004) #39 Chris Duhon 

(2005) #32 Daniel Ewing

(2006) #5 Shelden Williams

(2006) #11 JJ Redick 

(2007) #37 Josh McRoberts 

(2009) #12 Gerald Henderson 



Players Drafted Total
Roy- 27

K- 32



Players Drafted in the 1st Round
Roy- 19

K- 21



Players Drafted in the Top 15
Roy- 11
K- 17 



Players Drafted in the Top 5
Roy-4

K-7 



Players Drafted #1 Overall
Roy-0

K-1 



--If adjusted to only include players drafted since Roy started his head coaching career, you get:

Players Drafted Total
Roy- 27

K- 29



Players Drafted in the 1st Round
Roy- 19

K- 19



Players Drafted in the Top 15
Roy- 11
K- 16 



Players Drafted in the Top 5
Roy-4

K-7 



Players Drafted #1 Overall
Roy-0

K-1

Now, here are some bonus production numbers. I took the ppg, apg, and rpg for every draft pick's career and compared them:

K
7.19 PPG
3.03 RPG
1.68 APG

Roy
6.80 PPG
2.94 RPG
1.52 APG

Note: Players who were drafted but did not see NBA action got 0's for each category. Ed Davis was not included in the averages since he has yet to get an opportunity to see NBA action.

Well, there you have it. Extrapolate what you will...interpret it as you must... twist it as you like, but those are the facts.
Last edited 9/16/2010 7:40 PM by NCCUknow

darthur
09-21-2010, 03:19 AM
And VC? One of the most popular basketball player of the past 20 years is a disgrace? Take off your glasses and look again.

As a Toronto fan, I can agree that VC is/was a great player, but I also wouldn't be proud to be associated with him.

He's not the only player to have burned bridges in the league (and yes, I know a Duke player is also guilty of this), but he's one of the worst offenders.

flyingdutchdevil
09-21-2010, 04:37 AM
And to now break the ice in what has become an awkward state of affairs, some eye candy!:

http://cdn.cloudfiles.mosso.com/c54102/x2_1ca5301

I have that shirt! By far the best National Championship shirt: simple, clean, and vintage looking. Big fan.

MarkD83
09-21-2010, 06:02 AM
the pedals do go backwards, don't they kong? ;)


i am lifting some nifty stat work from NCCUknow @ The Devil's den so i will LINK (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=167&f=1386&t=6380176) first,

Kong, in a head to head competition, k dominates roy in just about every statistic and almost all of them with regard to nba talent.

Please point out what Doc should look at to NOT see K as head and shoulders over Roy in NBA draft development .......throw in Olympic Gold, TWICE as many National Titles, and now a World Championship and it's not even close...



I won't quote the whole post but at the very least these stats show that if a program recruits and signs great players they will get to the league. Both UNC and Duke recruit and sign great players and these players get to the league.

The question is "are the coaches at these schools flexible enough to let great players be great?". The benefit of Coach K coaching the Olympic and World Champoinship teams is that he has demonstrated this ability. In addition, Coach K has demonstrated the ability to change a team's style of play to suit its talent as evidenced by the 2010 NCAA Championship and the different style of play we expect to see this year. So for Coach K he will let great players be great.

I will not answer this for Coach Williams but will be interested to see how this year plays out without an elite point guard on the UNC team.

MarkD83
09-21-2010, 06:14 AM
I will add to my post with some quotes I found on the World Championship discussion thread.

"When you're watching film, the things he talks about really show in the game," Kevin Durant, the team's biggest star, says. "And that's something that's very special. I really haven't seen it too much in a coach that he really knows in depth about every possession, every play and plays ahead."

Or the following from Chauncey Billups.

"I've grown to really respect him so much more just playing for him and seeing how much he puts into this," Chauncey Billups says. "He's so passionate. He's up late hours watching film. He's all-in." Or the following from Kevin Love, who was recruited by K but went to UCLA.

"When he speaks, you listen," Kevin Love admits. "He gets us fired up to play big time." The Durant quote is the real gem here, both for what it says and who said it.

oldnavy
09-21-2010, 08:38 AM
Why are we assuming that Doc prefers UNC over Duke? Do we have a quote or even a source for this? The only thing I have seen is from UNC fans, who are supposedly in the know. But do we really think that Doc would have said this even if he does want Austin to go to UNC? I doubt that he would. Think about the pressure that would put on his son. Think about why we are even here talking about this. Doc encouraged Austin to re-open his recruitment so that Austin could make a more informed choice. Do we really think that this father is now going to exert pressure on his son to pick a particular school over another? This just doesn’t add up. I suspect that he may have made a favorable comment about UNC somewhere that has been misinterpreted as a ringing endorsement and blown way out of proportion. Besides, Austin is going to make the final decision not Doc and we know that no 17 year old kid has ever done anything that goes against his father's wishes... right? :rolleyes:

p.s. - and the whole "players to the pros" argument doesn't wash either. If this were to be the deciding factor, then AR would have already signed with Kentucky... right? Every one knows that Calipari is the best at getting players to the pros! Come on, let's stay reasonable here!

soccerstud2210
09-21-2010, 08:41 AM
the pedals do go backwards, don't they kong? ;)


i am lifting some nifty stat work from NCCUknow @ The Devil's den so i will LINK (http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=167&f=1386&t=6380176) first,

Kong, in a head to head competition, k dominates roy in just about every statistic and almost all of them with regard to nba talent.

Please point out what Doc should look at to NOT see K as head and shoulders over Roy in NBA draft development .......throw in Olympic Gold, TWICE as many National Titles, and now a World Championship and it's not even close...




Players Drafted Total
Roy- 27

K- 32



Players Drafted in the 1st Round
Roy- 19

K- 21



Players Drafted in the Top 15
Roy- 11
K- 17 



Players Drafted in the Top 5
Roy-4

K-7 



Players Drafted #1 Overall
Roy-0

K-1 



--If adjusted to only include players drafted since Roy started his head coaching career, you get:

Players Drafted Total
Roy- 27

K- 29



Players Drafted in the 1st Round
Roy- 19

K- 19



Players Drafted in the Top 15
Roy- 11
K- 16 



Players Drafted in the Top 5
Roy-4

K-7 



Players Drafted #1 Overall
Roy-0

K-1

Now, here are some bonus production numbers. I took the ppg, apg, and rpg for every draft pick's career and compared them:

K
7.19 PPG
3.03 RPG
1.68 APG

Roy
6.80 PPG
2.94 RPG
1.52 APG

Note: Players who were drafted but did not see NBA action got 0's for each category. Ed Davis was not included in the averages since he has yet to get an opportunity to see NBA action.

Well, there you have it. Extrapolate what you will...interpret it as you must... twist it as you like, but those are the facts.
Last edited 9/16/2010 7:40 PM by NCCUknow

Moonpie23, this deserves a slow clap, evolving into a standing ovation. this has always been a frustrating myth and argument. thank you for providing this information and statistics. very interesting and informative

OldPhiKap
09-21-2010, 09:01 AM
Moonpie23, this deserves a slow clap, evolving into a standing ovation. this has always been a frustrating myth and argument. thank you for providing this information and statistics. very interesting and informative

Yeah, but Carolina has the Helms Trophy. Don't discount its importance.

(Just check with IC -- they bring it up every time Duke catches UNC).

gam7
09-21-2010, 09:08 AM
Yeah, very interesting number crunching. Thanks for that. If i were a unc fan, I would probably say that a more appropriate time period comparison would be roy's x number of years as a head coach vs. K's first x number of years as a head coach. I'd be curious to see what those numbers would look like. I suspect Roy's record would look better in such a comparison.

Having said that, you'd have to make some kind of correction for the fact that K's rise in coaching was from total obscurity, whereas roy's first head job was a high profile program. That is to say, they weren't starting out from the same place. You'd naturally expect Roy to have more top flight talent early on because of where he was coaching.

BD80
09-21-2010, 09:38 AM
you can joke around all you want. you can say you miss when the rivalry was good, which sounds funny but in reality is far from true.

The truth is, UNC is the most popular school in the country. Look at the merch sales over the last few years. Perhaps the reason we have so few pros in NBA is due to the Guthridge years? When it comes to All-Star games and NBA Championships, Duke falls way behind UNC. When it comes to superstar players, Duke has had only 1, Grant Hill. Unfortunately, he had health problems that hurt his chances of being an all-time great pro. UNC has two well-respected coaches in the NBA. UNC players have had more endorsements. Sure, MJ makes up quite a bit of that, but Stackhouse and VC had a pretty good run in their career. I think Lawson will one day be an all-star. :cool:

It was also mentioned that UNC, as a basketball family, is much larger and much more involved than Duke's alums. You always hear of the long list of Pro's that come back each summer to play in the Smith Center. I think those are big differences. And, since you state that Doc is a vet and knows the NBA... well, he knows these things. In the end, he will let his son choose where he wants to go school. What I find so interesting is how open this recruitment seems to be. Just a few weeks ago, I didn't care or want AR to go to UNC. Partially, because I thought he was a Duke lock. Ultimately, I think he will create issues for the players already on the UNC roster. Duke could also be recruiting over a player or two? But, if the coach wants him and the coach can get him, I will worry about all of those things later!:cool:

Ah, the pick up games in the Dean Dome: running around haphazardly, playing no defense, hearing the squeeks of the shoes echo in the hollow, silent arena ...

Just like their unc playing days!

77devil
09-21-2010, 09:39 AM
Yeah, very interesting number crunching. Thanks for that. If i were a unc fan, I would probably say that a more appropriate time period comparison would be roy's x number of years as a head coach vs. K's first x number of years as a head coach. I'd be curious to see what those numbers would look like. I suspect Roy's record would look better in such a comparison.

Having said that, you'd have to make some kind of correction for the fact that K's rise in coaching was from total obscurity, whereas roy's first head job was a high profile program. That is to say, they weren't starting out from the same place. You'd naturally expect Roy to have more top flight talent early on because of where he was coaching.

As you intimated, an early career comparison may not be very meaningful, and frankly, what's the point? Careers should be measured over the long haul. Segmenting the data can create distortions. Current recruits are likely more interested in what has a coach done lately.

Both coaches have superior recent and overall records of accomplishment, including successful NBA players, great schools and programs to offer. The numerical differences are marginal. If Austin is placing important weight in his decision on the two coaches accomplishments, which I doubt, Coach K's current trifecta, including success with NBA players in two world events as compared to Roy's performance last season, should be a meaningful advantage for K with Austin and Doc. I believe Austin's decision, however, will ultimately come down to the softer variables such as chemistry with the coaches and the current underclassmen in the programs, and Austin's belief about his role on the teams that both coaches are selling.

flyingdutchdevil
09-21-2010, 09:48 AM
As you intimated, an early career comparison may not be very meaningful, and frankly, what's the point? Careers should be measured over the long haul. Segmenting the data can create distortions. Current recruits are likely more interested in what has a coach done lately.

Both coaches have superior recent and overall records of accomplishment, including successful NBA players, great schools and programs to offer. The numerical differences are marginal. If Austin is placing important weight in his decision on the two coaches accomplishments, which I doubt, Coach K's current trifecta, including success with NBA players in two world events as compared to Roy's performance last season, should be a meaningful advantage for K with Austin and Doc. I believe Austin's decision, however, will ultimately come down to the softer variables such as chemistry with the coaches and the current underclassmen in the programs, and Austin's belief about his role on the teams that both coaches are selling.

Such calm yet powerful insight on much a hostile thread! Couldn't agree more - his decision will be based on chemistry and the current underclassmen, which makes our case a lot stronger:

LIKELY 2011 DUKE BACKCOURT:
-Seth Curry
-Andre Dawkins
-Tyler Thornton
(I don't think Gbinije's minutes will conflict with AR's. And yes, I'm assuming Kyrie is gone)

LIKELY 2010 UNC BACKCOURT:
-Kendall Marshall
-LDII
-Leslie MacDonald
-Strickland
-Reggie Bullock
-PJ Hairston

I know that AR is good to start over anyone on this list, but with so much talent on UNC, RoyWill is going to struggle finding minutes for everyone. Still don't understand why MacDonald didn't transfer...

Class of '94
09-21-2010, 12:02 PM
I look forward to hearing feedback from our posters with legitimate connections about how well the Duke visit goes with Austin tonight. I have a good feeling that any Carolina chatter will die down after Coach K meets with Austin and his family. I'm expecting the visit to go really well.

On a side note, the only thing I can think of that Roy could offer Austin that would possibly peak his interest would be to promise Austin the starting PG spot for his freshman year; and that would be crazy on Roy's part to do something like that when you have Marshall and Drew II around.

sdotbarbee
09-21-2010, 12:05 PM
Adam Zagoria

Huge in-home tonight when Coach K visits Austin Rivers, No. 1 in 2011. "They're coming for dinner. I'm real excited," Rivers said.
about 2 hours ago via web
Reply Retweet