Was there a time the administration really didn't want a successful football team?

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I remember getting in lots of arguments with people that it was ludicrous to think that the powers that be didn't want a winner in every sport we play? I just thought we weren't into firing guys and let contracts run out rather than run bad coaches out of town (for the most part). Is there any hard evidence that the Board of Trustees (for example) ever made a statement indicative of their not wanting to have a successful football team?

GO DUKE FOOTBALL TOO!

[bill brill]

there was indeed. in 1968, a large part of faculty and president douglas knight were behind a push to take duke to ivy level, including no football scholarships. duke was only a good regional school at the time and most faculty people believed you couldn't have a bigtime athletic program and great academics. they wanted duke to drop out of the ACC and give no grants in football. it was fought off almost single-handedly by eddie cameron, who had the ear of a sufficient number of trustees. it would have hurt duke badly. I wrote carl james at the time saying that duke would never want to have a bad chemistry department (I think I chose chemistry because I flunked it) so why would they want a bad football team? it is my belief there never was true administrative support for football until the university mission statement a couple of years ago. whenever the economy rebounds and if duke, as is kevin white's wish, offers the ncaa limit in all sports, I think you will find that if duke has a good coach and resources in any sport, it can be nationally competitive. just look at the top recruits in sports that duke does not normally give grants -- fencing, men's track, women's diving, wrestling, or look at mallory cecil, won national championship as did her women's tennis team in her first semester. bb

[RelativeWays]

I remember hearing that the Duke faculty (including the Dean) was rather derisive and perhaps jealous of the success and attention that the basketball team received, as they thought its lowered Duke's standing as an academic institution. This "jealousy" is was supposedly prompted the group of 88 to protest the lacrosse team as a way of striking back at Duke athletics. Now thats a bunch of hearsay so take it for what its worth (not much). Keep in mind that several people insinuated that Coach K would never tolerate a successful football program to compete with his basketball team. I think K is on record saying something to the effect that rumor was one of the most ridiculous things he'd ever heard.

[4decadedukie]

In recent years, I think not; neglect is certainly not the same thing as intentionally undermining a team’s probability of victory.

Bill – Thank you for your always-authoritative comment.

[Kewlswim]

there was indeed. in 1968, a large part of faculty and president douglas knight were behind a push to take duke to ivy level, including no football scholarships. duke was only a good regional school at the time and most faculty people believed you couldn't have a bigtime athletic program and great academics. they wanted duke to drop out of the ACC and give no grants in football. it was fought off almost single-handedly by eddie cameron, who had the ear of a sufficient number of trustees. it would have hurt duke badly. I wrote carl james at the time saying that duke would never want to have a bad chemistry department (I think I chose chemistry because I flunked it) so why would they want a bad football team? it is my belief there never was true administrative support for football until the university mission statement a couple of years ago. whenever the economy rebounds and if duke, as is kevin white's wish, offers the ncaa limit in all sports, I think you will find that if duke has a good coach and resources in any sport, it can be nationally competitive. just look at the top recruits in sports that duke does not normally give grants -- fencing, men's track, women's diving, wrestling, or look at mallory cecil, won national championship as did her women's tennis team in her first semester. bb

Hi,

I apologize to all those folks who I told it was "ludicrous" to think an official of any University would want a sport that University plays in to fail. I guess it just sounded so crazy it couldn't be true. :(

GO DUKE!

[4decadedukie]

I remember hearing that the Duke faculty (including the Dean) was rather derisive and perhaps jealous of the success and attention that the basketball team received, as they thought its lowered Duke's standing as an academic institution. This "jealousy" is was supposedly prompted the group of 88 to protest the lacrosse team as a way of striking back at Duke athletics. Now thats a bunch of hearsay so take it for what its worth (not much). Keep in mind that several people insinuated that Coach K would never tolerate a successful football program to compete with his basketball team. I think K is on record saying something to the effect that rumor was one of the most ridiculous things he'd ever heard.

However, please remember, Relative, that Kewlswim's question specifically focused on the "Administration" (and in mentioned the Trustees), which is obviously quite different from the faculty.

[RelativeWays]

My fault as I associated faculty with administration and to be one in the same group.

[jimsumner]

The faculy senate actually went on record asking (demanding?) that Duke de-emphasize football.

As Bill mentioned, Duke made a conscious decision in the 1960s to become an Ivy-equivalent. That meant hiring lots of folks with advanced degrees from Ivies and schools like MIT and the University of Chicago. Some didn't see the point of big-time football, while others felt that there was an inverse relationship between the resources a university devoted to sports and the resources devoted to academics. Yale, and Harvard, and Princeton didn't have big-time football so Duke shouldn't.

I'm sure there are faculty at Stanford and Northwestern who feel the same way. Even at state-supported schools. It may just be an inherent conflict. Remember, the Ivies were once the 900-pound Gorillas of college football and the first Heisman winner played at the University of Chicago.

I think the recent re-committment to football by Duke shows that which way the wind is blowing these days. But I suspect there's always going to be some conflict between football and a portion of the faculty, at Duke and at other schools.

[cspan37421]

there was indeed. in 1968, a large part of faculty and president douglas knight were behind a push to take duke to ivy level, including no football scholarships.

Playing devil's advocate, I'd suggest this is not strictly equivalent to not wanting a successful football team. Who is to say that they didn't also want to dominate the Ivy League (or whatever peer group)? Such a change would be drastic, granted. It would change the definition of success, but not necessarily to one in which more losses were acceptable. It would just mean dropping out of competition with large state schools, football mills, etc.

[sagegrouse]

I don't have all the pieces of the puzzle, but I have some strong evidence and suspicions. I was Chronicle editor when Douglas M. Knight became President of Duke. He was recruited by the trustees to put Duke at the level of the Ivy League in terms of academics. The Ivy League had officially de-emphasized athletics in the formation of the conference in 1951 or so. [Interestingly, there was never an official Ivy League before then -- it was just an expression]. Therefore, less emphasis on athletics seemed to be a requirement.

Knight was heard to say (by others, not me) that 5-5 would be a pretty good football record for Duke, which, unhappily, turned out to be prophetic. Then when the highly successful Bill Murray resigned to become head of the Amer. Football Coaches Assoc. (not a coincidence, I believe), the unsuccessful Tom Harp (a losing record at Cornell) was hired in his place. This was a clear sign of de-emphasis. I have heard that admission standards were also raised for football players, but that happened after I left campus.

The faculty may have been a cheerleader for this action but had no meaningful role. As a PhD and quasi-academic, I am happy to go on record as saying that faculty senate resolutions mean absolutely nothing. There is no cost to enacting resolutions and only a slight likelihood that the faculty will have to live with the consequences. The action on football was with the Administration.

By all accounts Terry Sanford was much more pragmatic -- not surprisingly, since the job of being a college president in the post-Vietnam era dealt with basics like peace on campus and the survival of the administration. By the end of the 1970's, after Stanford reached the Rose Bowl a couple of times (thanks to QB Jim Plunkett) and was kicking I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. in the Olympic sports, the attitudes towards big-time athletics at academic universities began to change.

Duke began to get religion about the importance of a successful football program, although it did not allocate the resources necessary to be successful. The funding of athletic scholarships has helped immensely and the improvement of facilities has shown that Duke was determined to be a player in football. With the hiring of Cutcliffe, aggressive budgets were established for assistant coaches that would enable Duke to build and retain a staff.

In my own view the Ivy League model is a joke and should never have served as a model for Duke. But I am now 20 years older than Doug Knight was when he became president of Duke. The Ivy League approach is a hotbed of hypocrisy. Good athletes get into school if they meet the minimum standards. Financial aid for athletes is no problem; it is paid out of the academic scholarship fund. And don't get me started on the two ridiculous stories in the NY Times (I am a subscriber) on Tommy Amaker at Harvard.

sagegrouse

[4decadedukie]

Thank you, great post!

[Brian913]

the unsuccessful Tom Harp (a losing record at Cornell) was hired in his place.

How times change. In the last couple of decades people would have killed for the almost .500 record Tom Harp posted.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

How times change. In the last couple of decades people would have killed for the almost .500 record Tom Harp posted.
From Tom Harp until David Cutcliffe, it's been like one long slide in the mud of the main quad after a good summer rain. (Anyone who's attended a summer session at the University may recognize that reference.)

Thank you, Bill Brill and Sage. Excellent posts based in being there as eye witnesses to life on our campus. For those who weren't around during the era of the 1960's and 1970's, it's hard to tell you about the sorts of conflicts which reined without sounding unbelievable.

[jimsumner]

Spurrier certainly interrupted the long, slow slide. But Duke not only couldn't maintain his success, I'm not sure they tried. Barry Wilson is a nice guy and all but . . .

Curious factoid. Tom Harp and Red Wilson were both let go after posting 6-5 seasons; two straight for Wilson. In fact, Duke had a chance to win the ACC had they won the last game of the 1970 season. But they were mauled in the season finale at Chapel Hill and Harp was history.

I'll give Harp credit. He did improve and he'll always have the shoe-string play on his resume. But Duke could have had Jerry Claiborne and took a sub-.500 Ivy League coach. Somebody was sending some messages.

The guy who really looks better in the rear-view mirror is Mike McGee. 37-47-4 against a brutal non-conference schedule. Alabama, Southern Cal, Florida, Stanford, Michigan, Tennessee, Pittsburgh during their title season, et. al.

McGee knew his football and is very, very bright. But he could manifest a certain brusqueness towards people who expected more in the way of derriere-kissing. Burned some bridges.

[Kewlswim]

Spurrier certainly interrupted the long, slow slide. But Duke not only couldn't maintain his success, I'm not sure they tried. Barry Wilson is a nice guy and all but . . .

Curious factoid. Tom Harp and Red Wilson were both let go after posting 6-5 seasons; two straight for Wilson. In fact, Duke had a chance to win the ACC had they won the last game of the 1970 season. But they were mauled in the season finale at Chapel Hill and Harp was history.

I'll give Harp credit. He did improve and he'll always have the shoe-string play on his resume. But Duke could have had Jerry Claiborne and took a sub-.500 Ivy League coach. Somebody was sending some messages.

The guy who really looks better in the rear-view mirror is Mike McGee. 37-47-4 against a brutal non-conference schedule. Alabama, Southern Cal, Florida, Stanford, Michigan, Tennessee, Pittsburgh during their title season, et. al.

McGee knew his football and is very, very bright. But he could manifest a certain brusqueness towards people who expected more in the way of derriere-kissing. Burned some bridges.

Hi,

About 20 or so years ago Coach K (before all the Final Fours and National Championships) came to speak with alumni in San Francisco. Mike McGee (who I think was Athletic Director at USC at the time) was in the room. I think "brusque" might be putting it kind. He just wasn't a friendly guy, he sort of folded his arms, drank his drink, and only seemed to acknowledge those people he already knew. I was the punch-line for a couple of Coach K jokes and only recently learned that if he teases you it means he likes you :). I was not even a punch-line for Mr. McGee. I think ants on the floor were probably seen as more important to him than I.

By the way, Coach K stated he knew how we got kids to play at Duke and eschew Stanford after visiting the campus. He felt the big open expanses of Stanford were no match for the intimacy of Duke. Coach Knight's son was at Stanford at the time and he visited with Coach Knight while in the Bay Area.

GO DUKE!

[jimsumner]

"He felt the big open expanses of Stanford were no match for the intimacy of Duke"

Well, in that case folks should be lining up to go to NC State. :)

This is an interesting perspective. Perhaps, I need to get out more but I've always thought of Duke as pretty spacious.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Spurrier certainly interrupted the long, slow slide. But Duke not only couldn't maintain his success, I'm not sure they tried. Barry Wilson is a nice guy and all but . . .

Curious factoid. Tom Harp and Red Wilson were both let go after posting 6-5 seasons; two straight for Wilson. In fact, Duke had a chance to win the ACC had they won the last game of the 1970 season. But they were mauled in the season finale at Chapel Hill and Harp was history.

I'll give Harp credit. He did improve and he'll always have the shoe-string play on his resume. But Duke could have had Jerry Claiborne and took a sub-.500 Ivy League coach. Somebody was sending some messages.

The guy who really looks better in the rear-view mirror is Mike McGee. 37-47-4 against a brutal non-conference schedule. Alabama, Southern Cal, Florida, Stanford, Michigan, Tennessee, Pittsburgh during their title season, et. al.

McGee knew his football and is very, very bright. But he could manifest a certain brusqueness towards people who expected more in the way of derriere-kissing. Burned some bridges.
I recall hearing about Eddie Cameron recruiting Bud Wilkinson to be Duke's football coach when Bill Murray was leaving, but was told to pull back because of the shift in priorities described in previous posts. Any truth to that, Jim?

[Kewlswim]

"He felt the big open expanses of Stanford were no match for the intimacy of Duke"

Well, in that case folks should be lining up to go to NC State. :)

This is an interesting perspective. Perhaps, I need to get out more but I've always thought of Duke as pretty spacious.

Hi,

I think he feels Duke is more intimate than Stanford. However, I am pretty sure the comment about why kids, who want to play basketball, go to Duke and not Stanford was a joke. I do feel that Duke is a lot more intimate having attended both schools. I also feel the administration at Stanford is a LOT more flexible than Duke's. A picture of Stanford should be next to a description for, "successfully petition," while one for "by the book" should be for Duke, but I digress.

GO DUKE!

[jimsumner]

I've heard the Wilkinson stories but don't know how far they got. Brill probably knows more than I on the subject.

[sagegrouse]

I've heard the Wilkinson stories but don't know how far they got. Brill probably knows more than I on the subject.

Bud Wilkinson, whom I met graduation weekend in 1964, had two sons: footballer Jay played at Duke and is a member of the Duke HOF; the other son (forget his name) was a student at Stanford. It is interesting that Jay did not play at Oklahoma. Bud resigned as Oklahoma coach that year to run for the US Senate as a Republican. He lost to state speaker of the house Fred Harris, who later was a presidential candidate ("we've been winnowed in"). Thus, when Murray resigned, Wilkinson was a broadcaster and out of coaching.

Have no knowledge of Bud being recruited to replace Murray, but it has a certain plausibility. I can bet that Eddie Cameron thought it was a swell idea. I don't know about Wilkinson, however, or President Knight.

sagegrouse

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Bud Wilkinson, whom I met graduation weekend in 1964, had two sons: footballer Jay played at Duke and is a member of the Duke HOF; the other son (forget his name) was a student at Stanford. It is interesting that Jay did not play at Oklahoma. Bud resigned as Oklahoma coach that year to run for the US Senate as a Republican. He lost to state speaker of the house Fred Harris, who later was a presidential candidate ("we've been winnowed in"). Thus, when Murray resigned, Wilkinson was a broadcaster and out of coaching.

Have no knowledge of Bud being recruited to replace Murray, but it has a certain plausibility. I can bet that Eddie Cameron thought it was a swell idea. I don't know about Wilkinson, however, or President Knight.

sagegrouse
Your mention of Jay Wilkinson surely brings back fine memories of some great football! What a guy when it came to punt returns! He ranks second among Duke players for season and career punt return TDs.

[COYS]

In my own view the Ivy League model is a joke and should never have served as a model for Duke. But I am now 20 years older than Doug Knight was when he became president of Duke. The Ivy League approach is a hotbed of hypocrisy. Good athletes get into school if they meet the minimum standards. Financial aid for athletes is no problem; it is paid out of the academic scholarship fund. And don't get me started on the two ridiculous stories in the NY Times (I am a subscriber) on Tommy Amaker at Harvard.

sagegrouse

To be fair to the Ivy League, the academic scholarships that are given to athletes are given on a need basis, at least they are now and have been in the recent past. I think the hypocrisy is a fair amount less rampant now than it was in the not to distant past. That being said, having athletic talent will certainly boost your credentials as an applicant and make up for a disparity in test scores, GPA, etc. compared to other applicants.

[formerdukeathlete]

bill b, jim s,

Very informative and true.

The state of Wallace Wade Stadium, even when i arrived at Duke in the 70s, signaled lack of institutional support for Football. Before the stock market crash of 08 - 09, we squandered opportunities to fund athletics at Duke, to make Wade a real football stadium. Why did we squander; why were we late? I would submit this was because Nan was not in sync with the idea that Athletics, and, particularly Football, needed this kind of priority.

I would submit greater support today for Football is partly a reaction to the Lacrosse hoax, embarrassment over some of the University's actions, and outrage among alums, even Trustess, over the Group of 88. Another factor in the recent step up for Football - a call from the ACC office that Duke needs to improve its participation in Football.

De-emphasis undercurrents - before our Lax players were exonerated, a faculty committee once again recomended de-emphasis of athletics, eg., cutting practice times. One way to help ensure that our support for Football will not wane is that Duke recruit among the top 5 BCS programs academically. In 1997, the last time the NCAA released data, Duke was 4th behind Stanford, Northwestern, Rice and ahead of Vanderbilt. Its important to stay in this territory, particularly when bringing in 25 scholarship players a year, with the largest squad on campus. Stanford is recruiting top 15 classes in terms of Football talent which are also top of the field academically. We should follow their lead.

[Kewlswim]

bill b, jim s,

Very informative and true.

The state of Wallace Wade Stadium, even when i arrived at Duke in the 70s, signaled lack of institutional support for Football. Before the stock market crash of 08 - 09, we squandered opportunities to fund athletics at Duke, to make Wade a real football stadium. Why did we squander; why were we late? I would submit this was because Nan was not in sync with the idea that Athletics, and, particularly Football, needed this kind of priority.

I would submit greater support today for Football is partly a reaction to the Lacrosse hoax, embarrassment over some of the University's actions, and outrage among alums, even Trustess, over the Group of 88. Another factor in the recent step up for Football - a call from the ACC office that Duke needs to improve its participation in Football.

De-emphasis undercurrents - before our Lax players were exonerated, a faculty committee once again recomended de-emphasis of athletics, eg., cutting practice times. One way to help ensure that our support for Football will not wane is that Duke recruit among the top 5 BCS programs academically. In 1997, the last time the NCAA released data, Duke was 4th behind Stanford, Northwestern, Rice and ahead of Vanderbilt. Its important to stay in this territory, particularly when bringing in 25 scholarship players a year, with the largest squad on campus. Stanford is recruiting top 15 classes in terms of Football talent which are also top of the field academically. We should follow their lead.

Hi,

I imagine that it will be hard to keep up with Stanford until we actually have some success on the grid-iron and we can prove that players who come here can make it (and stick) in the NFL. Two or three winning seasons and a high-octane offense will do wonders for us winning recruiting battles with Stanford. I also feel that Duke closing the gap academically with Stanford helps. No longer can Coach Harbaugh (or any other Stanford coach) talk credibly under their breath about how much better Stanford is academically than Duke. Stanford and Duke are pretty much in a dead-heat academically these days. Keep it up Duke, keep it up!!

GO DUKE!

[sagegrouse]

Hi,

I imagine that it will be hard to keep up with Stanford until we actually have some success on the grid-iron and we can prove that players who come here can make it (and stick) in the NFL. Two or three winning seasons and a high-octane offense will do wonders for us winning recruiting battles with Stanford. I also feel that Duke closing the gap academically with Stanford helps. No longer can Coach Harbaugh (or any other Stanford coach) talk credibly under their breath about how much better Stanford is academically than Duke. Stanford and Duke are pretty much in a dead-heat academically these days. Keep it up Duke, keep it up!!

GO DUKE!

I believe FDA's point was that to compete successfully for athletes that were highly qualified academically, Duke needed to show strong academic results for football players. I seriously doubt that we will go head-to-head with Stanford very often -- geography. Rather we need to show academic success for football players in order to have them choose Duke over, e.g., the better state universities.

Duke's natural recruiting territory is its home region, which I am pleased to see is receiving the requisite attention, plus the northeast, where there is a large population, good schools (in New England), and relatively few major football powers.

Or maybe I didn't understand FDA very well. Oh well....

sagegrouse

[bill brill]

the wilkinson story is true but I never learned the rationale for it. I'm not sure how old bud was at the time, but duke once offered the basketball job to 70-year-old adolph rupp. I was told bud said thanks but no thanks. he could have made a difference, but only as much as the administration was willing to do, which wasn't much. duke's only great recruiting year in the '70s and '80s came when academic standards were lowered and tommy limbaugh got some good talent, not all of which survived. I really don't know how the mission statement came about. nan liked sports but thought coach K and butters had too much power. I don't know authoritatively, but I hope brodhead has come to the (seems obvious to me) conclusion that good athletics is nothing but a positive as long as you recruit good people and I think the trustees agree. I think we'll all find that out whenever the economy turns and duke can raise money again. it's always been my view that if a duke sport has the funding and a proven good coach, it can be nationally competitive. I think that's the case now, plus having a legit bigtime AD helps. a recent summit of some of the nation's top ADs was held at duke a couple of weeks ago, altho it received no publicity. bb

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

the wilkinson story is true but I never learned the rationale for it. I'm not sure how old bud was at the time, but duke once offered the basketball job to 70-year-old adolph rupp. I was told bud said thanks but no thanks. he could have made a difference, but only as much as the administration was willing to do, which wasn't much. duke's only great recruiting year in the '70s and '80s came when academic standards were lowered and tommy limbaugh got some good talent, not all of which survived. I really don't know how the mission statement came about. nan liked sports but thought coach K and butters had too much power. I don't know authoritatively, but I hope brodhead has come to the (seems obvious to me) conclusion that good athletics is nothing but a positive as long as you recruit good people and I think the trustees agree. I think we'll all find that out whenever the economy turns and duke can raise money again. it's always been my view that if a duke sport has the funding and a proven good coach, it can be nationally competitive. I think that's the case now, plus having a legit bigtime AD helps. a recent summit of some of the nation's top ADs was held at duke a couple of weeks ago, altho it received no publicity. bb

Thank you, Bill, for another great post filled helpful information.

[formerdukeathlete]

I believe FDA's point was that to compete successfully for athletes that were highly qualified academically, Duke needed to show strong academic results for football players. I seriously doubt that we will go head-to-head with Stanford very often -- geography. Rather we need to show academic success for football players in order to have them choose Duke over, e.g., the better state universities.

Duke's natural recruiting territory is its home region, which I am pleased to see is receiving the requisite attention, plus the northeast, where there is a large population, good schools (in New England), and relatively few major football powers.

Or maybe I didn't understand FDA very well. Oh well....

sagegrouse

SG, in the 10 class Stanford has snagged a bunch of guys (9) from right within our natural recruiting territory.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&c=14&yr=2010

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&c=8&toinid=734&yr=2010

we are bumping into them on the recruiting trail quite a bit. Stanford's academic mandate for athletics is quite strong as you know. Harbaugh is all over the place in order to meet admissions office requirements.

I agree with you on our natural territory for recruiting, but also recall that our top 10 recruiting classes in 1981 and 1986 had guys from all over the place.

[sagegrouse]

the wilkinson story is true but I never learned the rationale for it. I'm not sure how old bud was at the time, but duke once offered the basketball job to 70-year-old adolph rupp. I was told bud said thanks but no thanks.

Old Bud Wilkinson was fine and not so old. How are you?

Bud was born in 1916, and Bill Murray left Duke after the 1965 season. At that time Bud was just shy of 50.

Wilkinson went into broadcasting after his political career failed to take off and was a lead analyst or broadcaster for ABC, doing some memorable games (ND-Mich St. 10-10 tie in 1966). In 1978 he was hired by the Bidwells to coach the then St. Louis Cardinals in the NFL, which had a predictable outcome after fewer than two seasons.

sagegrouse

[Kewlswim]

SG, in the 10 class Stanford has snagged a bunch of guys (9) from right within our natural recruiting territory.

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&c=14&yr=2010

http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=9&c=8&toinid=734&yr=2010

we are bumping into them on the recruiting trail quite a bit. Stanford's academic mandate for athletics is quite strong as you know. Harbaugh is all over the place in order to meet admissions office requirements.

I agree with you on our natural territory for recruiting, but also recall that our top 10 recruiting classes in 1981 and 1986 had guys from all over the place.

Hi,

I think I understood FDA and wasn't trying to disagree, if it sounded that way I apologize. I don't think we can do well just getting kids from North Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Texas, etc. there just isn't big enough a pool of kids who can play at the highest level and have the grades/board scores needed to enter Duke.

Stanford and Duke are national schools. We will know if we are doing well if Coach Harbaugh and his staff start to belly ache about how Duke is starting to snatch kids away from them who "should have" gone to Stanford. How glorious that will be (and I am a Stanford fan, I just root for Duke first)! I believe it could happen. Then again, I thought Coach Spurrier would love being back at Duke so much he really wouldn't want to leave and John Wall would want to play for Coach K and then fall in love with Duke so he wouldn't leave early. In other words, I look at things with such Duke colored glasses that I am setting myself up for being hurt by Coach Cut.

GO DUKE!