Potential Coaches for State

[MADevil30]

So obviously Sid is still in at State and has been recruiting decently (academic issues aside) and therefore talking about who will replace him is a bit presumptuous, but I found the front page article on that topic pretty interesting for a couple of reasons. One thing I was really shocked by was the level of the names being tossed around. As a 19 year old, I definitely missed out on State's heyday, but I have always thought of them as a low-second or even high-third tier program. Aside from the Julius Hodge years, I can't remember State being formidable during any point of my college basketball fandom. The history of the Jimmy V teams (I wonder how much State's profile is boosted by the replay of the pass/shot being shown every year), as well as being located in the triangle definitely help, but I would be shocked to see State hire Sean Miller, let alone any of the higher profile names in the front page post. Honestly, I saw all of the names listed at the end (Wojick, Horn, Pastner, Drew) as stretches. So my question is, what really is State's position in the college basketball hierarchy? Are we swayed to see it as bigger than it really is due to our proximity or is it actually seen as a sleeping giant of sorts?

[Matches]

State used to be a much bigger deal than it is now. I'm not sure it can really be termed a "sleeping giant", though, given that it's now been two decades since it was a national power. The landscape has changed pretty significantly during that time.

I also think some State fans have a rose-colored view of the Valvano years. I grew up during that time and was a State fan - the program was good but it was not a perennial top 5/ top 10 team. Some seem to remember those State teams as being right there with UNC (and in the 2nd half of the 80's, Duke), but most years it really wasn't that way. State was competitive, made the NCAAs most years, and won often enough against UNC to keep the fans pretty happy, but they were not a big national power most years.

[JasonEvans]

Should State be in the market for a new coach, I think their ability to hire a new coach will be directly impacted by how much money they want to spend. It shows a level of committment to the coach and the success of the program that really matters.

That said, I think Capel and Barnes are not coming to State almost no matter how much money was thrown at them. They know the ACC well enough to know that they probably do not want to compete with Duke and Carolina from State. I don't think Bruce Pearl would be in the market for the State job either. He's got a pretty good situation at Tennessee. For all 3 of these duys, State would be, at best, a lateral move.

Wojic and Scott Drew are both very interesting choices. They could be good fits and are both fine coaches. I don't get the mention of Josh Pastner. We'll see what he does with Memphis, but he has a somewhat sketchy history from what I have heard/read. We'll have to see how his first year or two at Memphis play out and if he can avoid the stench of an NCAA investigation.

--Jason "oldtimers will note that Dereck Whittenburg's star has faded a great deal the past couple years at Fordham, so I will not mention him" Evans

[CDu]

Should State be in the market for a new coach, I think their ability to hire a new coach will be directly impacted by how much money they want to spend. It shows a level of committment to the coach and the success of the program that really matters.

That said, I think Capel and Barnes are not coming to State almost no matter how much money was thrown at them. They know the ACC well enough to know that they probably do not want to compete with Duke and Carolina from State. I don't think Bruce Pearl would be in the market for the State job either. He's got a pretty good situation at Tennessee. For all 3 of these duys, State would be, at best, a lateral move.

Wojic and Scott Drew are both very interesting choices. They could be good fits and are both fine coaches. I don't get the mention of Josh Pastner. We'll see what he does with Memphis, but he has a somewhat sketchy history from what I have heard/read. We'll have to see how his first year or two at Memphis play out and if he can avoid the stench of an NCAA investigation.

--Jason "oldtimers will note that Dereck Whittenburg's star has faded a great deal the past couple years at Fordham, so I will not mention him" Evans

Yeah, I never understood why people felt Barnes or Calipari would come to NC State. Barnes had a top-tier program already - he didn't need to take a huge step back in program strength and take a pay cut. Same for Calipari. I think both of those guys just used the State offer as a negotiating ploy.

It's probably to early to pull the plug on Lowe, but the returns thus far aren't promising. He's failed to show that he knows how to build a program. This will be the first

But if they do move on, I think that the best bet would be to go the Oliver Purnell/Skip Prosser approach and hire a guy who has been pretty successful at a mid-major. I don't think a "made" college coach is going to come to the third-best program in the area.

State is definitely not a sleeping giant. The kids that State are recruiting have literally no memory of State being anything more than a second-tier program. Heck, most of the parents of the kids that are being recruited probably have little memory of State as a truly elite program. Last time they were really an elite program was the mid-70s (35 years ago). In the 80s, they were a very good program, but I wouldn't say they were an elite program.

[SupaDave]

I would try for Mark Few or Brad Stevens. Guys who have proven they can do more with less...

[jagee44]

I think they should bring in a guy like Bob Mckillop.

[wolfpackdevil]

I am probably the only person on this board that believes Sidney Lowe will have a much better season this year than his last.

Even with the loss of Brown, they have some young talent at the guard positions. If Javi Gonzalez can be more consistant, he could be on of the better PG's in the ACC.

Julius Mays showed a lot of promise in his freshman year, and will be a good backup for Javi.

CJ Williams hit a number of big 3's last year, and is improving his stregth this summer. I think he could be a good 2 guard this season.

And there frontcourt will be improved as well.

You have to admit, Tracy Smith looked like an all-conference big man in the final part of last season. If he can improve his jump shot, he will be unstopable.

And then they have young talent in Richard Howell, Deshawn Painter, Johnny Thomas, and Jordan Vandenburg.

I think they will have a 8-8 or 9-7 season in the ACC, and make an NIT appearance.

And if that happens, Sid will be back for another year.

[ACCBBallFan]

I am probably the only person on this board that believes Sidney Lowe will have a much better season this year than his last.

Even with the loss of Brown, they have some young talent at the guard positions. If Javi Gonzalez can be more consistant, he could be on of the better PG's in the ACC.

Julius Mays showed a lot of promise in his freshman year, and will be a good backup for Javi.

CJ Williams hit a number of big 3's last year, and is improving his stregth this summer. I think he could be a good 2 guard this season.

And there frontcourt will be improved as well.

You have to admit, Tracy Smith looked like an all-conference big man in the final part of last season. If he can improve his jump shot, he will be unstopable.

And then they have young talent in Richard Howell, Deshawn Painter, Johnny Thomas, and Jordan Vandenburg.

I think they will have a 8-8 or 9-7 season in the ACC, and make an NIT appearance.

And if that happens, Sid will be back for another year.

Hello, losing McCauley, Costner and Fells, and replacing them with unproven frosh (one less than expected) does not qualify as improvement.

UVA and Miami are only ACC teams NC State might finish ahead of and they each have a very good player like Tracy Smith too in Landesberg (plus Scott, Baker, Zeglinski) and Dwayne Collins (plus seniors Dews and Hurdle, McGowan and DeQuan Jones).

The other 9 ACC teams are several notches better and could all compete for top honors in ACC in a year of parity.

VA Tech though short on depth has Delaney and Allen, plus JT Thomspon and Hudson, a quad NC State cannot match up with.

Wake also light on depth has Ish Smith, LD Williams, Chas MacFarland and their best guy Aminu, plus Walker/Woods.

MD and BC have more returnees than anybody and top of ACC will be Duke, UNC, FSU, Clemson and GA Tech if you go by returnees, 5*'s and 4*'s.

[Reddevil]

there was a University in the state of North Carolina with a proud, but fairly distant past. They hired a coach that was relatively unknown, and something pretty amazing grew. The same could happen at State. They were a big deal in the 70's, and certainly had their moments under V. Seeing Sloan kneeling on the sidelines in the plaid sports coat coaching against Lefty and Dean was memorable. Having guys like Thompson, Towe, Burleson, and Carr certainly helped. Many think the semifinal against UCLA is what really made college BB a national, coast to coast sporting event. I see them as similar to Louisville in that they have a roller coaster history. Hopefully Coach Lowe will bring back the glory in his awful red sports coat, and they will put together a nice string of second place finishes, and be the best public basketball school in the state.

[Franzez]

Delonte Hill.

[SupaDave]

there was a University in the state of North Carolina with a proud, but fairly distant past. They hired a coach that was relatively unknown, and something pretty amazing grew. The same could happen at State. They were a big deal in the 70's, and certainly had their moments under V. Seeing Sloan kneeling on the sidelines in the plaid sports coat coaching against Lefty and Dean was memorable. Having guys like Thompson, Towe, Burleson, and Carr certainly helped. Many think the semifinal against UCLA is what really made college BB a national, coast to coast sporting event. I see them as similar to Louisville in that they have a roller coaster history. Hopefully Coach Lowe will bring back the glory in his awful red sports coat, and they will put together a nice string of second place finishes, and be the best public basketball school in the state.

Really? Sorry but NCSU is no Louisville.

Louisville tourney appearances since 1990 - FIFTEEN.

NCSU tourney appearances since 1990 - SIX.

If you continue to look the discrepancies only grow.

[Reddevil]

Really? Sorry but NCSU is no Louisville.

Louisville tourney appearances since 1990 - FIFTEEN.

NCSU tourney appearances since 1990 - SIX.

If you continue to look the discrepancies only grow.

All time wins: Louisville 1556, NC State 1518
Last title: Louisville 1986, NC State 1983

Details are less important than impact, and although Louisville has some better stats, they have never had a team like State did in the early 70's.

Maybe Michigan, or some other school would be a better comparison, but going back to the late 60's and into the mid 70's when I was cutting my teeth as a collegiate BB fan, scared to death of the blue devil and noise in Cameron (and getting splinters from the even then old wooden bleachers in Wade) State was a big deal. Duke was "between" eras at the time.

My point is they have a solid tradition in their own right, and along with Wake, I don't mind when they succeed. Coach Lowe was a good player, and part of something pretty amazing. I respect his accomplishments and wish him well - just not too well.

[CDu]

My point is they have a solid tradition in their own right, and along with Wake, I don't mind when they succeed. Coach Lowe was a good player, and part of something pretty amazing. I respect his accomplishments and wish him well - just not too well.

The problem with State's tradition is that it's now 35 years old. As I said before, many of the parents of the kids that State is recruiting have fading memory of State being an elite program. I'd wager you probably can't find a school with that span of lack of relevance that bounced back to premier status. Even the loose comparison to Duke is not apt - Duke had only been down for 15 years or so at the time.

And that's ignoring the other issue that there are two schools within 20 miles that are now the established elite.

Is it possible for State to return to prominence? I guess so. I'm not sure that Lowe is the guy to do it though, based on what I've seen to this point.

[SupaDave]

If it was my team to coach (and it's not) then I would probably take more of the route that Valvano took - get me some JUCOs, some mid-level talent, and a couple good recruits - then let the fireworks fly.

State fans have proven throughout the years that they love to win but it hasn't always come with 5 star recruits. To be honest, NCSU needs to arrange a meeting between its current and most recent coach to discuss recruiting strategies...

[NCSU&UNCgrad]

Lee Fowler, the AD, is holding NCSU back. Not only basketball, he's run most of their sports in the ground during his tenure.

NCSU has an incredible fan base, and it's a shame Fowler always makes terrible coaching decisions. He kept Sendek way to long, then botched the coaching search for his replacement. With respect to Lowe, he was the 5th choice and should be commended for trying. But he's no good.

Coaches for consideration should be:
Mark Few, Thad Matta, Bo Ryan, Xavier or Purdue's coach, Rick Majerus, and for the right price, you Barnes would take it.

It's ok to spend a lot on a coach if he brings back even more.

[94duke]

Lee Fowler, the AD, is holding NCSU back. Not only basketball, he's run most of their sports in the ground during his tenure.

NCSU has an incredible fan base, and it's a shame Fowler always makes terrible coaching decisions. He kept Sendek way to long, then botched the coaching search for his replacement. With respect to Lowe, he was the 5th choice and should be commended for trying. But he's no good.

Coaches for consideration should be:
Mark Few, Thad Matta, Bo Ryan, Xavier or Purdue's coach, Rick Majerus, and for the right price, you Barnes would take it.

It's ok to spend a lot on a coach if he brings back even more.

I might have to disagree with you on this one. Sendek was showing improvement every year. Sendek left because the boosters didn't think he was improving fast enough and didn't like Sendek's style of play. Also, he had a hard time beating Duke and unc.
Thoughts?

[Reddevil]

The problem with State's tradition is that it's now 35 years old. As I said before, many of the parents of the kids that State is recruiting have fading memory of State being an elite program. I'd wager you probably can't find a school with that span of lack of relevance that bounced back to premier status. Even the loose comparison to Duke is not apt - Duke had only been down for 15 years or so at the time.

And that's ignoring the other issue that there are two schools within 20 miles that are now the established elite.

Is it possible for State to return to prominence? I guess so. I'm not sure that Lowe is the guy to do it though, based on what I've seen to this point.

Damn I'm feeling old! It's unfortunate, but they are really starting from scratch at this point in the shadows of giants. They should probably look at Tennessee as an example of how to make a mountain out of a molehill. I don't know the dynamics involved with their AD, and how Coach Pearl was able to make it happen, but I would at least look at them as a "how to" model.

[Matches]

I might have to disagree with you on this one. Sendek was showing improvement every year. Sendek left because the boosters didn't think he was improving fast enough and didn't like Sendek's style of play. Also, he had a hard time beating Duke and unc.
Thoughts?

Sendek was IMO a mediocre coach who just happens to look really good in comparison to Les Robinson and Sidney Lowe. Clearly he elevated the program while he was there but his ceiling for the most part was early NCAA exits. I think they made the Sweet 16 once while he was there and that was an upset. His teams were boring to watch and regularly got pasted by Duke and UNC. (To be fair, lots of people get pasted by Duke and UNC but NCSU fans, not unfairly, expect to at least be able to knock those teams off occasionally.)

[SupaDave]

Damn I'm feeling old! It's unfortunate, but they are really starting from scratch at this point in the shadows of giants. They should probably look at Tennessee as an example of how to make a mountain out of a molehill. I don't know the dynamics involved with their AD, and how Coach Pearl was able to make it happen, but I would at least look at them as a "how to" model.

Tennessee has done it with in-state recruiting and transfers as well as being the King of the Hill in their state. NC State has a tough go at it with both of those. The hire of Pearl was genius considering that he was an "unknown" from a lower division. They just found a darn good coach and recruiter. NCSU should be so lucky.

[CDu]

Damn I'm feeling old! It's unfortunate, but they are really starting from scratch at this point in the shadows of giants. They should probably look at Tennessee as an example of how to make a mountain out of a molehill. I don't know the dynamics involved with their AD, and how Coach Pearl was able to make it happen, but I would at least look at them as a "how to" model.

Yes, that's the general idea - find a dynamic younger coach who has been successful in a mid-major setting and hope he can turn it around. But again, Pearl has an advantage at Tennessee in that he's not competing against two giants so close nearby (and in the same conference). The fact that UNC and Duke are so close make it that much tougher. Only so many kids are going to want to play in one area.

It's potentially doable, but the challenge in front of State is enormous. The key will be having a coach that can land the players consistently and build a talent pool to work with. Lowe hasn't really shown he can do that. But maybe he'll catch on. For his sake, he'd better do it soon.

[SupaDave]

Yes, that's the general idea - find a dynamic younger coach who has been successful in a mid-major setting and hope he can turn it around. But again, Pearl has an advantage at Tennessee in that he's not competing against two giants so close nearby (and in the same conference). The fact that UNC and Duke are so close make it that much tougher. Only so many kids are going to want to play in one area.

It's potentially doable, but the challenge in front of State is enormous. The key will be having a coach that can land the players consistently and build a talent pool to work with. Lowe hasn't really shown he can do that. But maybe he'll catch on. For his sake, he'd better do it soon.

Damn - I just agreed with CDu... LMAO!

[Bob Green]

Even the loose comparison to Duke is not apt - Duke had only been down for 15 years or so at the time.

Vic Bubas took Duke to the Final Four in 63, 64, and 66. Bill Foster took us back in 1978 so the dry spell was 12 years. Coach K has made 10 trips.

State was last in the Final Four in 1983 - a 26 year (and growing) dry spell. State fans should just give up and go root for ECU or Appalachian State as those two have just as good a chance as the Wuffies to make a Final Four appearance.