Monster Class Brewing at UK

[Patrick Yates]

I am starting to see some upsetting writing on the wall regarding PP.

PP recently met with Gillespie (sp? who cares) and was very impressed. He said that G promised 15-20 shots a game, which K would never do (cause it is a big lie, no matter which coach says it).

He and Jai Lucas are rumored to be tight One of Gillespie's assistants' wives is tight with Lucas's mom. I think KY is going to get Lucas and PP in the truck.

More worrisome is the Legion Situation at Mich. Legion has decommitted and is looking around. He is visiting KY this weekend.

I think Gillespie is going to get all three in the truck my mid may. All three of these kids are good enough to help a program without being good enough to bolt after 1 (or even 2) year(s). This could be a foundation that would get KY back next year to the level of national relevance, with a few more recruits KY would be an elite team again. It all smacks of a big time media story, which would appeal to the kids, instant media scrutiny in a severly depleted SEC, and a chance to win big starting in 2 years (with a pretty good season next year). Also, with KY down, all three would start from day 1 as KY looks to build for the future.

Patrick Yates

On a side note: Is every one on this board truly angry at the way Tubby was treated, or were we happy that KY had a coach who could not seem to get it done on the recruiting trail, thus weakening one of the great teams (thus rivals). With G at KY, they might be a beast, soon. Me no likey.

[Clipsfan]

I'm hoping that you're wrong about KY getting PP and Legion, as I'd rather that they went to my other schools instead. I think that PP would fit in really well at Duke, although if what he wants is the ability to take 20 shots per game (which is that way that article sounded) then Duke may not be the right place for him. I'm surprised that a kid who sounds like he's thinking through this process would believe a coach that promises that he'd be the superstar like that. I'm sure he has to know that KY is recruiting other studs who are being promised the same thing (Legion). I also thought it was interesting that Gillespie brought a schedule for his entire first year, including classes and when his video game time would be. I know that I'm naive about the whole process, but do players really want to have no free will?

As for Legion, I'm hoping that he heads to UCLA. We can use a 2 now that Arron has leapt to the NBA, and given the arrival of Love, the new missing piece is just a good 2. Legion would have a great chance to get a national title and make a huge impression in the meantime. I'm just hoping that he's not averse to playing D, as Howland will surely emphasis that part of the game.

[gw67]

Unless returning players transfer or go to the NBA, Kentucky has five returning players who averaged over 20 minutes a game including their center, Morris, point guard, Bradley, and arguably their best player, Crawford. They also have two young perimeter players, Meeks and Jasper, who looked good in the one game I saw them play last year. It would seem to me that Patterson would be able to step right in to the starting lineup but that there would be plenty of competition for playing time on the perimeter.

gw67

[jimsumner]

Morris? You do realize that he ended the season playing in the NBA.

[MulletMan]

Morris? You do realize that he ended the season playing in the NBA.

Yeah... I don't think there's much doubt that he won't be back at UK next season.

[MChambers]

It will make it all the sweeter when we beat them!

[Patrick Yates]

Unless returning players transfer or go to the NBA, Kentucky has five returning players who averaged over 20 minutes a game including their center, Morris, point guard, Bradley, and arguably their best player, Crawford. They also have two young perimeter players, Meeks and Jasper, who looked good in the one game I saw them play last year. It would seem to me that Patterson would be able to step right in to the starting lineup but that there would be plenty of competition for playing time on the perimeter.

gw67

[Assuming KY gets the 3 I mentioned]

As discussed, Morris is gonzo. KY has a center coming in, but the post was a complete wasteland outside of of Morris. PP starts, and is the main (only) option in the post next year.

Crawford is good, no doubt, but I beleive that Gillespie would utilize a three guard alignment at KY next year.

As for Jasper and Meeks, see title of post. Legion and Lucas would have started over them this year. If Gillespie wants to improve, he has to look long term. Next year they can be OK, but if he plays Lucas and Legion, they will get the experience to be very good the next year, when G can probably add some more talent to the roster. Meeks and Jasper can come off the bench, or they would be more than welcome to transfer (hint, hint).

Also, PP probably would get arround 15 shots per game at KY next year. Outside of Crawford, the cupboard is somewhat bare.

Patrick Yates

[gw67]

Sorry for my lack of smarts re Morris. I don't keep up with Kentucky and I really don't follow NBA that closely. What team signed him?

John Lucas was one of my favorite players back in the 70's but I think that his youngest is overrated (Spring signees often are, IMO). If Bradley didn't transfer or go to pros, I don't see young Lucas beating him out and, like I said, I only saw Kentucky once last year but I liked Meeks and Jasper (also a point guard). Unlike the 5-8 Lucas, they are tall, can handle the ball and play some defense. Just my two cents.

gw67

[Jumbo]

I'm willing to bet just about anything that Patterson doesn't end up at Kentucky. Name the stakes. I'm game.

[tommy]

I'm willing to bet just about anything that Patterson doesn't end up at Kentucky. Name the stakes. I'm game.

Just curious as why you say that. I think Florida is the most likely, so I don't disagree with you that Kentucky is unlikely to get him, but why are you so confident? Thanks.

[Jumbo]

Just curious as why you say that. I think Florida is the most likely, so I don't disagree with you that Kentucky is unlikely to get him, but why are you so confident? Thanks.

I have my reasons. ;)

[jimsumner]

Morris signed with the Knicks.

Re: PP and UK. There's a distinct possibility that the treatment of Smith by portions of the Kentucky fan base did not endear Kentucky to the Patterson family.

[watzone]

There is a lot of assuming, if not paranoia going on here;)

[Waynne]

Jumbo, what's your read on the chances of PP going to UF? Are you taking any bets on that one?:confused:

[CMS2478]

Jumbo, what's your read on the chances of PP going to UF? Are you taking any bets on that one?:confused:

But if I were my money would be on UF. No inside sources or knowledge there, just a gut feeling.

[DevilWolf]

As much as I'd love Patterson to come to Duke because we could use another solid player, but am I the only one that would REALLY hesitate to call Lucas, Patterson and Legion a "monster class"?

I think Lucas and Patterson are so blown out of proportion at this point because they're really the only guys left on the table. How often were these guys talked about when all of the recruits were still un-committed? Now that it's down to two, they're approaching Bill Braskey status.

[dball]

Patterson is a terrific player and I'd love to see him in Duke blue.

Even if KY is a bit down next year, 16-20 shots seem like a lot. The last time someone averaged that for KY was Derrick Miller in 1989. TX A&M's go to guy, Acie Law, averaged only about 12 shots a game.

Mashburn, Chapman, the Walkers (Antoine and Kenny)--pretty much no one with the odd exception of 1989 going back to the 50s has averaged 16+ shots a game at KY. Just seems unlikely.

[Patrick Yates]

As much as I'd love Patterson to come to Duke because we could use another solid player, but am I the only one that would REALLY hesitate to call Lucas, Patterson and Legion a "monster class"?

I think Lucas and Patterson are so blown out of proportion at this point because they're really the only guys left on the table. How often were these guys talked about when all of the recruits were still un-committed? Now that it's down to two, they're approaching Bill Braskey status.

I started the discussion, but you are right. I said as much in an earlier quote regarding what I call "last single girl" phenomena. I do not think any of the three are world beaters, but if Billie inks all three it will be heralded as a monster class, no doubt.

However, all three are just good enough to help a program improve, but they would also be foundation players in that they would be in the program for 3-4 years. With a superstar or two sprinkled in, thier JR year could be NC type season. Speculation, yes, but reasonable given Gillespie's history and trends.

Patrick Yates

[Patrick Yates]

There is a lot of assuming, if not paranoia going on here;)

Off course it is assumptions and paranoia. Those, along with spite, are my only reasons for posting. This is the internet. Where else can I post my half-baked, no facts supporting them, delusions? No where. The DBR can be a place for rationed discussion (what fun), and it can be a place where the best case, worst case, scenarios are bandied about.

Face it, we know virtually nothing about next year's team, the conference, or even the nation.

That picture will only clear up once the deadline for the pros has passed, as well as the date for all the declarants to reneg and come back to school, and all the recruits are on campus. Even then, we don't really know what next year will be like due to coaching turnover (at the assistant level), injuries, off-season development, etc.

Recent past has shown us that the blue white game is virtually meaningless, as are many of the early season cupcakes.

Realistically, it would be mid November before rational, analytical discussions could take place. So, the offseason is the time for speculations, preparing for the worst, etc.

So yes, I am being paranoid. The best thing about being paranoid (besides riling up the other posters, thus fullfilling my main raison de etre, to be spiteful) is that I am rarely surprised or dissappointed. What few surprises I experience are thus happy surprises, instead of bad surprises.

For the last couple of seasons, hope and optimism have kicked me square in the groin.

Instead, I shall try paranoia, rumor mongering, and baseless speculation.

Beats doing actual work.

Patrick Yates

[mgtr]

As much as I'd love Patterson to come to Duke because we could use another solid player, but am I the only one that would REALLY hesitate to call Lucas, Patterson and Legion a "monster class"?

I think Lucas and Patterson are so blown out of proportion at this point because they're really the only guys left on the table. How often were these guys talked about when all of the recruits were still un-committed? Now that it's down to two, they're approaching Bill Braskey status.

I think this is about the best post I have seen in the last two weeks, certainly with regard to these players, and maybe on any basketball subject (except for JJ's 80 footer!).

[tamu88]

I am starting to see some upsetting writing on the wall regarding PP.

PP recently met with Gillespie (sp? who cares) and was very impressed. He said that G promised 15-20 shots a game, which K would never do (cause it is a big lie, no matter which coach says it).

He and Jai Lucas are rumored to be tight One of Gillespie's assistants' wives is tight with Lucas's mom. I think KY is going to get Lucas and PP in the truck.

More worrisome is the Legion Situation at Mich. Legion has decommitted and is looking around. He is visiting KY this weekend.

I think Gillespie is going to get all three in the truck my mid may. All three of these kids are good enough to help a program without being good enough to bolt after 1 (or even 2) year(s). This could be a foundation that would get KY back next year to the level of national relevance, with a few more recruits KY would be an elite team again. It all smacks of a big time media story, which would appeal to the kids, instant media scrutiny in a severly depleted SEC, and a chance to win big starting in 2 years (with a pretty good season next year). Also, with KY down, all three would start from day 1 as KY looks to build for the future.

Patrick Yates

On a side note: Is every one on this board truly angry at the way Tubby was treated, or were we happy that KY had a coach who could not seem to get it done on the recruiting trail, thus weakening one of the great teams (thus rivals). With G at KY, they might be a beast, soon. Me no likey.


From Gillespie's past behavior, ("I'm looking forward to staying here at Texas A&M), PP had better not believe anything he hears.

[JasonEvans]

I imagine many of you have seen this, but Jerry Tipton, a noted columnist for the Lexington Herald-Leader, writes a bit about Gillespie's promise of 16 shots per game.

In Tipton's opinion, Gillespie is full of it...

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/49724.html

[CMS2478]

I imagine many of you have seen this, but Jerry Tipton, a noted columnist for the Lexington Herald-Leader, writes a bit about Gillespie's promise of 16 shots per game.

In Tipton's opinion, Gillespie is full of it...

http://www.kentucky.com/276/story/49724.html

That is not something you can "promise." You could say " you will get a lot of touches or shots." But to put an exact number on it. FULL OF IT!!!

[dukemsu]

Just saw posted where Michigan's former top recruit, Legion, has picked UK after decommitting from UM following Tommy's departure.

Combine Legion with the possibility of Patterson and possibly Lucas, sheesh.

I really don't get it-why did UK get so much more attractive since Tubby left? Anyone have an explanation for this?

dukemsu

[Cameron]

Billy G being a very good recruiter along with the whole "You can be the heroes to resurrect the UK tradition" are probably working to perfection right now with guys like Legion and Lucas. Let's just hope Patrick doesn't buy into that BS:)

[CMS2478]

Promising Patterson 16-20 shots a game too, which is also BS:)

[kydevil]

Promising Patterson 16-20 shots a game too, which is also BS:)

Well with what Uk's team may look like downlow that may not be a stretch... :(

[UKBOO]

Hi Blue Devil fans,
A UK fan here to offer my views on these topics, if you don't mind.
Tubby Smith: Many seem to give UK fans much credit for his leaving UK. Most of us that are closer to the situation see it much differently. Smith never really cared what the fans said one way or the other all the way up till the day he left. That may have been a big part of the problem. Anyway, Then why did Tubby Scoot? Look at his teams of late. UK fans DO ask for a dedication that is above the norm from it's coaches, who should demand the same from the players. You can't tell me you weren't at least a little pleased that UK was dropping further and further each year.. :) Smith didn't mind at all that the fans were upset, as long as the media darlings came to his side, speaking of what a wonderful coach he was. But then, this year even the National media started asking the same questions the fans were. Couple that with the quality team he was returning, and next year he was due for some major whoppin's and tons more negative press. Next to go after that wold be his rep.... His only hope? PP and Lucas. They would not have helped much on the floor, but at least the media would be off his back with some big signings.. But that was looking more and more like a long shot. As careful as PP and Lucas are, do you think they would have went to a school where the coach was on the hot seat like Smith? Anyway, THAT is the reason he left.

PP and Lucas? Who knows. Those guys could wind up at any of the schools on the list. The "feeling" we have is that Duke has made up ground with PP, since the FL assistant left. I'm just glad G Man is not sitting, waiting and hoping. He's beating the bushes. He may not score, but the UK fans at least appreciate effort we haven't seen in a long time.

[UKBOO]

That is not something you can "promise." You could say " you will get a lot of touches or shots." But to put an exact number on it. FULL OF IT!!!

Tipton is the worst. He has been caught changing quotes several times. The PP quote said touches, not shots. Who in their right mind would promise that many shots?
Tipton is sore because he thought he could save Smith with his ramblings. His feelings are hurt and he is lashing out. I would take his (non)work with a grain of salt.

[UKBOO]

Actually, Legion wasn't promised anything. He is hoping to earn a starting spot after Bradley and Crawford leave. Guards are interested in UK because of Law.

And PP wasn't promised "shots". He was promised touches. I don't think it would matter. I think it's a Duke FL race.

[Cameron]

^^In that case, let's hope Patrick realizes that Billy Ball will most likely be making its debut in the NBA sometime very soon. If he wants a longtime, historic, legendary, dependable coach, then K's his man:)

[JasonEvans]

Tipton is the worst. He has been caught changing quotes several times. The PP quote said touches, not shots. Who in their right mind would promise that many shots?
Tipton is sore because he thought he could save Smith with his ramblings. His feelings are hurt and he is lashing out. I would take his (non)work with a grain of salt.

Frankly, regardless of what Tipton wrote, a coach that promises playing time or touches or anything to a recruit is being either foolish or dishonest. Players should earn time in practice and by hard work. No one should be granted anything just because they are a highly regarded recruit.

I am certain Coach K would never, ever promise anyone anything. He'd tell PP (and has told other highly regarded recruits), "come here and work hard and the playing time will take care of itself." That is what an honest coach says. K has lost kids before because of this (I am sure Minnesota enjoyed their one year with Hump), but his program is the better for it.

Selling out your integrity or your program just to land a recruit is not a good way to start things off at Kentucky, if you ask me. I had a lot more respect for Gilelspie before he began making promises.

-Jason "what if Patterson struggles as a freshman? Does Gillespie break his promise then?" Evans

[UKBOO]

Have you seen PP play? I have several times. Trust me, they did NOT run an offense through him. And the kid still hustled every play. Have you looked at what UK has returning? UK telling PP that he's going to get X whatever isn't selling anything. It is stating the obvious. I didn't come hear to trash or bash, but do you honestly think other fans do not hear the same type stuff about K?

Legion was promised nothing and still signed. PP will probably sign elsewhere. One thing I can promise is he wasn't sold a bill of goods by the new UK staff.

[JasonEvans]

Have you seen PP play? I have several times. Trust me, they did NOT run an offense through him. And the kid still hustled every play. Have you looked at what UK has returning? UK telling PP that he's going to get X whatever isn't selling anything. It is stating the obvious. I didn't come hear to trash or bash, but do you honestly think other fans do not hear the same type stuff about K?


Wait a sec-- we know for a fact that K has lost recruits (Humphries was a top 10 recruit who was signed to Duke) because K refused to promise playing time.

And we have PP saying that Gillespie promissed him touches/shots/whatever.

By what right do you say that K and Gillespie use the same recruiting tactics?

[Steve K .]

Hi .I'm a UK fan that came across this link from another board. I just wanted to throw in my 2 cents worth. I know UK will be better next year.( it can't get much worse). We will be a worthy opponent in a year or so, so win while you can. I would also like to say that as much of a rivalry we have I think coach K is great.ONE OF THE BEST EVER. He got my respect after the Latner shot game. (The best ncaa game ever) It was great of him to come to our locker room and talk to those guys that had worked so hard and gone so far against all odds.I'm looking forward to many more great ones. Ya know GREAT PROGRAMS lie Duke, U K, Kansas, and perish the thought UNC(I hate them more than Loserville)will always rule.
Good luck http://www.dukebasketballreport.comhttp://www.dukebasketballreport.comhttp://www.dukebasketballreport.comhttp://www.dukebasketballreport.comiees your gonna need it:)

[freedevil]

^ Cha-ching! We have a winner. Jason Evans folks, Jason Evans.

[kentuckyelliott]

Here are 2 very recent articles about what exactly transpired with Patterson.

In Pat's own words, he says "possibly". Gillispie isn't promising anything. If he busts his tail and works hard, he can become the focal point of the Offense at UK.

Patterson: Gillispie makes strong impression

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaab/news?slug=rivals-117988&prov=rivals&type=story_recruiting

Another article from SI.com that shows a glimpse into this whole process.

Standing Pat

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/luke_winn/04/25/patrick.patterson/1.html


Also, Jodie Meeks is the real deal. This kid is such a good athlete, he could compete internationally in he long jump. He will thrive in a more open system like Gillispie's.

[Jumbo]

Also, Jodie Meeks is the real deal. This kid is such a good athlete, he could compete internationally in he long jump. He will thrive in a more open system like Gillispie's.

What system would that be? The one that ranked 223rd in pace of play last year at Texas A&M?

[UKCATZFAN]

Morris signed with the Knicks.

Re: PP and UK. There's a distinct possibility that the treatment of Smith by portions of the Kentucky fan base did not endear Kentucky to the Patterson family.

If Patrick does not come to UK then so be it. Orlando has cost us better players already,Wright, i think would have been at UK had it not been for tubbyball

[UKBOO]

Wait a sec-- we know for a fact that K has lost recruits (Humphries was a top 10 recruit who was signed to Duke) because K refused to promise playing time.

And we have PP saying that Gillespie promissed him touches/shots/whatever.

By what right do you say that K and Gillespie use the same recruiting tactics?

Right? We are fans with opinions. Nothing more. We all have a RIGHT to that opinion. At certain times some things, like PT/touches are obvious. if a team is loaded, they are not. Looks to me like Humphries got his PT/touches/rings. Looks like he made a pretty wise choce to me. No knock against Duke, but the kid has been center stage two years running.

As for PP, please see the post above with links...

You seem to be very quick to throw water on others that lands a recruit. I think the recruiting landscape is muchmore level than you are letting on.

[freedevil]

Center stage? In Toronto? I believe that honor belongs to Chris Bosh.

And rings? What rings? High school championships? Sweet.

[UKBOO]

Center stage? In Toronto? I believe that honor belongs to Chris Bosh.

And rings? What rings? High school championships? Sweet.

Appologies!!
I thought you were talking of losing Humphries to FL. I have the wrong Humphries.

[Jumbo]

Right? We are fans with opinions. Nothing more. We all have a RIGHT to that opinion. At certain times some things, like PT/touches are obvious. if a team is loaded, they are not. Looks to me like Humphries got his PT/touches/rings. Looks like he made a pretty wise choce to me. No knock against Duke, but the kid has been center stage two years running.

As for PP, please see the post above with links...

You seem to be very quick to throw water on others that lands a recruit. I think the recruiting landscape is muchmore level than you are letting on.

What are you talking about? Humphries has a ring? Um, you realizes we're talking about Kris Humphries, a kid who signed with Duke along with Luol Deng, then demanded playing time before arriving. Coach K let him out of his Letter of Intent, he went to Minnesota, played one year, put up big numbers on an awful team, and is now warming benches in the NBA. He has no "ring" to speak of.

You seem to have him confused with Lee Humphrey. You'd think that, after watching the guy kick your butt the last four years, you'd know his name.

[CDu]

Appologies!!
I thought you were talking of losing Humphries to FL. I have the wrong Humphries.

The guy you're thinking of is Lee Humphrey. Not Humphries. Humphrey never was recruited to Duke. Humphries was recruited, committed, then un-committed. Since his goal was simply to be a one-and-done to the NBA, one could argue that he also made the right choice (if that was his only goal). Minnesota didn't give him a shot at a title (with him at Duke, we probably win the title), but it doesn't sound like that's what he cared about.

[UKBOO]

The guy you're thinking of is Lee Humphrey. Not Humphries. Humphrey never was recruited to Duke. Humphries was recruited, committed, then un-committed. Since his goal was simply to be a one-and-done to the NBA, one could argue that he also made the right choice (if that was his only goal). Minnesota didn't give him a shot at a title (with him at Duke, we probably win the title), but it doesn't sound like that's what he cared about.

Yes, I had the wrong guy. My Apologies...

[Zeb]

You never really answered the question: promising minutes/shots is not Coach K's way. Yet you claim it is. On what basis do you make that claim? What recruit has stated publicly that Coach K promised him anything other than an opportunity?

[UKBOO]

You never really answered the question: promising minutes/shots is not Coach K's way. Yet you claim it is. On what basis do you make that claim? What recruit has stated publicly that Coach K promised him anything other than an opportunity?

Look, all you need to do is go to boards of other schools and initiate a K thread. I did not come here to slam anything Duke. I think that would be as highly inappropriate, as you attempting to entice me into it. You guys have a right to hold your coach high. He's a great coach. You also have the right to semi-slam other schools and coaches here. This is your home. I came here to offer a perspective on the "tubby/UK fans" issue, to address the "shots" issue and to make the point that others see things differently than you.

I'll be glad to offer a perspective on any topics of UK, another school, or anything "Duke" that can be addressed tactfully.