Coach Laettner?

[jimsumner]

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1600685.html

Read the last few paragraphs

[airowe]

http://www.newsobserver.com/business/story/1600685.html

Read the last few paragraphs
Hed be a welcome addition, especially to our bigs.

[Duke of Nashville]

Hed be a welcome addition, especially to our bigs.


Interesting....those photos of him working with the bigs makes my heart beat even harder now. No offense to what Wojo has done for Duke but... it does look a whole lot better to see one of the best big men to ever play the college game to be working out with them.

[Edouble]

Interesting....those photos of him working with the bigs makes my heart beat even harder now. No offense to what Wojo has done for Duke but... it does look a whole lot better to see one of the best big men to ever play the college game to be working out with them.

Where are these pictures you speak of?

[johaad]

As I recall, he said in an interview that he doesn't want to be an assistant and that if someone gave him the opportunity he'd take it. I think (key word here) his words were along the lines of "I don't want to pay my dues".

[CDu]

Where are these pictures you speak of?

Someone posted pictures in one of the threads a week or so (maybe longer) ago of several of the big men playing/practicing together. Since coaches are allowed very limited (if any) contact with the players during the summer, former players like Laettner work out with them instead. Laettner was in many of the pictures banging with them in the post.

[johaad]

I believe these are those pics.

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/gallery/8502492_EwRFN#559556202_aiMXX

[CDu]

I believe these are those pics.

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/gallery/8502492_EwRFN#559556202_aiMXX

Close, but those appear to just be pickup game pictures. Here is the link (from the same site) to Laettner working with the bigs:

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/gallery/8525209_a3Nig#561216545_DNSXv[/QUOTE]

That said, it was neat to see picks of Hill, Hill, Laettner, Williams, and others playing pickup with the current guys.

[roywhite]

Close, but those appear to just be pickup game pictures. Here is the link (from the same site) to Laettner working with the bigs:

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/gallery/8525209_a3Nig#561216545_DNSXv


I've always supported Coach Wojo, and never thought much of the argument that a much smaller guy couldn't coach the "bigs". But I must say that Laettner appears to bring great experience and credibility to such a role.

Christian on the Duke staff? I guess it depends on other changes and then on how interested he really would be.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I believe these are those pics.

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/gallery/8502492_EwRFN#559556202_aiMXX
I don't recognize the guy in last picture on the first page. Who is he?

[yancem]

I don't recognize the guy in last picture on the first page. Who is he?

Thomas Hill.

[CDu]

I don't recognize the guy in last picture on the first page. Who is he?

The last guy on the first page (who appears to be in the process of dunking on/around Miles Plumlee) is Grant Hill.

It appears from other photos that Thomas Hill and Sean Dockery, Chris Duhon, and Jason Williams were there as well.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thomas Hill.
The chunky guy with the fluffy hair? Wow.

[CDu]

The chunky guy with the fluffy hair? Wow.

Well, he IS 38 years old. :)

Unless you're still playing competitively, it's hard to keep in game shape at that age...

[roywhite]

The last guy on the first page (who appears to be in the process of dunking on/around Miles Plumlee) is Grant Hill.

It appears from other photos that Thomas Hill and Sean Dockery, Chris Duhon, and Jason Williams were there as well.

On a slightly related note, it appears the new practice facility is exactly meeting one of it's purposes---that of providing an attractive, comfortable place for ex-players to return, work out, and mingle.

[airowe]

Well, he IS 38 years old. :)

Unless you're still playing competitively, it's hard to keep in game shape at that age...

He's really let that Kid 'N Play flat top go hasn't he?

[Greg_Newton]

I've always supported Coach Wojo, and never thought much of the argument that a much smaller guy couldn't coach the "bigs". But I must say that Laettner appears to bring great experience and credibility to such a role.

That sure would be great. I have to admit... while I have stayed out of the Wojo-as-big-man-coach debate thus far, I really don't understand the argument that a lifelong guard can coach big men every bit as well as a lifelong big man. I'm sure Wojo does a fine job, but if you've spent your whole life learning what works and what doesn't work in the post, it has to make some difference. For example, the difference between teaching the footwork of a drop step and teaching the little tricks that make your drop stop a killer move (i.e. when and how much to bump your opponent, the most effective but subtle way to use your elbows, how to use your body to create content and shield the defender when finishing, etc, etc...). Little tricks that you might not know unless you've been battling in the trenches your whole life.

I would say it's almost insulting to a career big man like Chistian to say you can pick up [i]every little[/] subtlety the he's learned about post play from just outside analysis. Personal experience is big, big, big when it comes to that kind of stuff, and I would absolutely love to see him on our bench.

[NSDukeFan]

That sure would be great. I have to admit... while I have stayed out of the Wojo-as-big-man-coach debate thus far, I really don't understand the argument that a lifelong guard can coach big men every bit as well as a lifelong big man. I'm sure Wojo does a fine job, but if you've spent your whole life learning what works and what doesn't work in the post, it has to make some difference. For example, the difference between teaching the footwork of a drop step and teaching the little tricks that make your drop stop a killer move (i.e. when and how much to bump your opponent, the most effective but subtle way to use your elbows, how to use your body to create content and shield the defender when finishing, etc, etc...). Little tricks that you might not know unless you've been battling in the trenches your whole life.

I would say it's almost insulting to a career big man like Chistian to say you can pick up [i]every little[/] subtlety the he's learned about post play from just outside analysis. Personal experience is big, big, big when it comes to that kind of stuff, and I would absolutely love to see him on our bench.

I would think it would be great to have Laettner on the staff (though I believe an earlier poster indicated he wasn't interested in an assistant's position) and he may add great credibility in some recruits eyes.

But I think the reverse of your point is actually more true. I think it's almost insulting to a several year coach like Wojo to say you can coach every little subtlety that he's used to coach big men from just playing. Coaching is big, big, big when it comes to that kind of stuff.

What big man doesn't dream of being a guard and what guard doesn't want to be a post player? Just because you may not be able to do it at a high level, does not mean you can't teach it. The best players aren't always the best coaches and vice versa. Again, I have no idea how good a big man coach Wojo is, but his size and college position don't have everything to do with it. I also think K can coach big guys even though I don't believe he played center or forward in college (I know he was just a player and wasn't a numbered position :p)

[Greg_Newton]

...But I think the reverse of your point is actually more true. I think it's almost insulting to a several year coach like Wojo to say you can coach every little subtlety that he's used to coach big men from just playing. Coaching is big, big, big when it comes to that kind of stuff...

I personally would weigh a successful career of in-the-trenches experience playing big man for Duke/NBA much higher than several years of coaching the position. I would also argue that it's a pretty commonly accepted principle in life that there is no excuse for hands-on, trial-and-error personal experience, and that there are some things that you're not going to learn from the "textbook" or simply studying. Sure, great coaches can coach big men even if they've never played in the post, but there are certain invaluable subtleties that you're just not going to pick up if you haven't spent years actually doing it yourself. Plus, I'm sure Laettner has studied his share film share during his time, rather than "just playing." Just my two cents...

[Devilsfan]

He might just see eye to eye with our new abundance of bigs.

[jimsumner]

FWIW, the world of sports is littered with great players who became mediocre coaches. It really is two different skill sets.

From the other side, with the exception of John Wooden, how many of the great college hoops coaches were great players? Maybe John Thompson. Jim Calhoun at a lower level. I'm sure there are a few others.

But Mike Krzyzewski, Bob Knight, Dean Smith, Adolph Rupp, Hank Iba, Roy Williams, Everett Case, Tom Izzo, Jim Boeheim, Bill Self, et. al. Decent college players, not so good college players, not even college players at all. But none were stars.

So, let's don't assume that Christian Laettner would automatically be a great coach; even a competent coach. Because he really would need to go the woodshed, pay his dues, and learn some stuff. Is he willing to do that?

[NSDukeFan]

I personally would weigh a successful career of in-the-trenches experience playing big man for Duke/NBA much higher than several years of coaching the position. I would also argue that it's a pretty commonly accepted principle in life that there is no excuse for hands-on, trial-and-error personal experience, and that there are some things that you're not going to learn from the "textbook" or simply studying. Sure, great coaches can coach big men even if they've never played in the post, but there are certain invaluable subtleties that you're just not going to pick up if you haven't spent years actually doing it yourself. Plus, I'm sure Laettner has studied his share film share during his time, rather than "just playing." Just my two cents...

I can't disagree with you very much because it's Laettner we're talking about and I feel he was a very smart player and probably would be a very good coach. For many others though, I don't know if a career in the trenches necessarily makes you a good big man coach and would figure Wojo to be better coaching big men than many players who have had successful careers playing, and maybe most (perhaps even Laettner).

P.S. I see Jim made my point much better than I did.

[sagegrouse]

I think the world of Laettner, although I am skeptical of him as a college hoops coach because he doesn't need the money (yet) and he doesn't project as the camp counselor that so many college coaches resemble.

That said -- and why would the sagegrouse ever proceed in a straight line -- he probably has enough game left to be a good on-court opponent for the young Dukies.

sagegrouse

[Greg_Newton]

FWIW, the world of sports is littered with great players who became mediocre coaches. It really is two different skill sets.

True, but is the world of sports littered with great position coaches who never played the position? I honestly don't know, but I would think that would be the exception rather than the rule.

Sure, I wouldn't necessarily want Patrick Ewing to be giving the motivational halftime speeches or scheming up the motion offense for my squad, but I would sure as heck want him working with my big men during practice time.

[jimsumner]

For years the Dean Smith-Bill Guthridge tandem was renowned for the big-man expertise. Rusty Clark, Robert McAdoo, Bobby Jones, Mitch Kupchak, Tom LaGarde, Sam Perkins, Brad Daugherty, J.R. Reid, Scott Williams, Eric Montross, Rasheed Wallace, et. al. Neither Smith nor Guthridge was much of a college big man.

Nor was Pete Newell, the big-man coaching guru for generations. Who coached all those Wooden big men? Who was Mike Gminski's big-man coach at Duke? Was Pete Gaudet a great college post before mentoring Ferry, Abdelnaby, Laettner, Parks, et. al?

I'm sure there are counter-examples. Thompson and Ewing. I suspect Terry Holland taught Ralph Sampson a few things or two. Danny Manning at Kansas.

But the overwhelming majority of college coaches-head and assistant-were ordinary players and usually guards. So, it's almost always little guys teaching big guys how to be better big guys.

There's just no reason to believe that great players automatically become great coaches and I think we're making a lot of assumptions here about Laettner's ability to quickly supersede Wojo. There really is a learning curve.

[RazzyBailey31]

Pete Newell, generally considered the best big man coach there is, was just 6'2. Height has nothing to do with it.

[devil84]

Many have made the good point that it is one thing to play, and another thing to coach. There are no guarantee that if you are/were good at one, you definitely are/were good at the other. In fact, the examples presented almost points to if you are great at one, you are likely to be mediocre at the other. I don't necessarily think that's true, but I do think playing and coaching are two separate skill sets.

But as far as a guard coaching the bigs...who feeds the bigs the ball? Could it be helpful for the big guys to be coached by someone who is has excellent experience on the court trying to get them the ball? Seems to me that a point guard is quite capable of seeing that, for example, if a big posts up this way, the point guard can get him the ball better than if he sags back and gets beat by the defense thus causing the point guard to pass it to the wing or shooting guard with a lesser percentage shot selection. (Think of the number of times a point guard could say, "Dude, don't do that. The big I played with did that all the time and I couldn't ever get him the ball." Or, "Keep doing that and with those misses, the wing/guard is going to rack up a ton of long rebounds instead of you getting points -- that's how I got so many rebounds." Or something similar.)

I think that for the same reason there's no correlation between great players becoming great coaches, I think the same can be applied to a guard coaching bigs and vice versa. And the best big man coach of all time, Pete Newell, was not a big man (someone will chime in with his height -- 6'2"ish?).

[dukeimac]

Actually, Wojo brings the perspective of what a guard is looking at when he looks to distribute the ball into the big guys. You, standing there don't see what he sees, ya know that guy sneaking around the back, etc.

Christian brings the big physical body that knows how to bang with you, how to use your big body to your advantage down low. He has the knowledge of playing with his back to the basket.

I think you need to have both perspectives.

[Greg_Newton]

But the overwhelming majority of college coaches-head and assistant-were ordinary players and usually guards. So, it's almost always little guys teaching big guys how to be better big guys.

You certainly know a lot more about basketball than I do, so I'll take your word for it. Intuitively, I just have a hard time believing that decades of playing, practicing, and living the position doesn't give you an advantage in certain areas over someone who doesn't have first-person experience in understanding the subteties and little things you can do to give yourself an edge. I may be a bit biased because my HS coach played big man for many years and was great at teaching us little post tricks he'd picked up along the way.


I think you need to have both perspectives.

That may be the statement I agree with the most so far in this thread. Sure, it's great to have the point guard's perspective too, but is that really more important than having the big man's perspective? The main thing that worries me about Wojo is that due to his extreme small size, it's likely he never once posted up a defender during his playing career. Which is kind of like taking flight lessons from someone who's well-studied but never been in a plane... he may know his stuff, but I have a hard time believe you're getting as complete training as you would from somone who's actually been up in the air.

[jimsumner]

Let's assume that

1.Former college big men have a unique perspective on playing inside in college; a perspective that former guards cannot duplicate.

2.This perspective is so valuable that colleges will go to great lengths to hire coaches who fill this need.

Then why doesn't every college have a 6'8-7'0" former college center on their staff?

Inasmuch as almost every college team in the last thirty years has had post players of that size, then the supply would seem to be there. But colleges aren't hiring these folks. Not in very large numbers, anyway.

So maybe the premise is flawed.

This isn't just Duke and K folks. Most college coaches are average-sized human beings who played guard. Look at the ACC head coaches. How many former post players do we have?

To change sports a second, how good a college QB was David Cutcliffe? Was he ever rushed by a 280-pound future first-round draft pick? He seems to have overcame that lack of perspective and experience.

[RelativeWays]

I surely can't say whether or not Christian would or would not be a better big man coach than wojo. Having knowledge and skill and imparting that knowledge to others are two entirely different abilities. I do think Laettner would bring a certain presence and attitude that the current Duke bench may not have (to outsiders anyway).

[MChambers]

Laettner was known for being rather tough on his teammates. Although there is a time and place for that, it's also important that teachers (including coaches -- putting Bobby Knight aside for a minute) build up their pupils. If Laettner could do that, he'd be a good coach. But I don't know if he can do that or not.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Laettner was known for being rather tough on his teammates. Although there is a time and place for that, it's also important that teachers (including coaches -- putting Bobby Knight aside for a minute) build up their pupils. If Laettner could do that, he'd be a good coach. But I don't know if he can do that or not.

I thought of Cherokee as soon as I saw this thread. I do think Laettner would be a great assistant coach (the "bad cop") paired with a more supportive HC. It's also possible that Christian has mellowed or learned better interpersonal skills in his many years since college. I have no idea, so I can't really comment on if he would/would not be a good coach in terms of personality. That said, there's no question he has the know-how.

[Dukeford]

Close, but those appear to just be pickup game pictures. Here is the link (from the same site) to Laettner working with the bigs:

http://www.blueplanetshots.com/gallery/8525209_a3Nig#561216545_DNSXv

That said, it was neat to see picks of Hill, Hill, Laettner, Williams, and others playing pickup with the current guys.[/QUOTE]

Looks like he forgot his playing shoes, and had to pick up a pair at the local dollar store.

[NSDukeFan]

You certainly know a lot more about basketball than I do, so I'll take your word for it. Intuitively, I just have a hard time believing that decades of playing, practicing, and living the position doesn't give you an advantage in certain areas over someone who doesn't have first-person experience in understanding the subteties and little things you can do to give yourself an edge. I may be a bit biased because my HS coach played big man for many years and was great at teaching us little post tricks he'd picked up along the way.



That may be the statement I agree with the most so far in this thread. Sure, it's great to have the point guard's perspective too, but is that really more important than having the big man's perspective? The main thing that worries me about Wojo is that due to his extreme small size, it's likely he never once posted up a defender during his playing career. Which is kind of like taking flight lessons from someone who's well-studied but never been in a plane... he may know his stuff, but I have a hard time believe you're getting as complete training as you would from somone who's actually been up in the air.

If Wojo was anything like me, and from what I can tell he was more hard-nosed and tough than me by a long shot, he would have loved posting up any chance he got. Big guys always want to be guards and guards always want to go inside. He of course wouldn't be effective that way against ACC competition, but that does not mean that he would not have learned those skills very effectively. That is all just speculation. The main points that posters have made before about John Wooden doing well coaching Walton and Lew, K coaching Duke's big men, Pete Newell coaching almost all NBA big men are the more important ones, but just because you are short and a guard does not mean that you don't enjoy posting up and don't know how to do that effectively.

[weezie]

He's really let that Kid 'N Play flat top go hasn't he?

Hey, at least he's GOT hair! :)

[cspan37421]

I would love to see Bobby Hurley in these games with so many greats of yesteryear. Although that (drunken?) driver nearly killed him, he did make it back onto the court eventually, didn't he? (although he was never the same). I'd think he'd have so much to teach our backcourt guys.... I'm surprised he's not been much part of Duke in his post-pro years, but of course wish him well if horses are his real passion.

[HK Dukie]

Check out picture 22-23 on that link. Grant is dunking with his head under/behind the backboard.

Reminds me of a certain Hurley to Hill connection back in the day... :)

[HK Dukie]

One more thing. Christian is not gonna be an assistant coach for Duke. He has 13 years of experience in the NBA already and has a comfortable life in Florida. I can see him either taking a head coaching job at a smaller NCAA school or asst coach job in the NBA, but business interests could take that out of the picture also. So let's just not get our hopes up. We can dream, but it ain't gonna happen.

[DukeBlueNikeShox]

I think Christian would be awesome!