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View Full Version : Horrid week for Dukies in the NBA



_Gary
04-19-2007, 12:06 AM
Before anyone goes crazy, I'm not talking about individual performances. I'm talking about the way things have worked out for the teams that former Dukies are on in the last week of the season. Consider the following:

1) Chicago (Deng, Duhon) loses and it likely costs them a trip to the Eastern Conference finals.

2) Indiana (Dunleavy) misses the playoffs for the first time in ages, after looking like a lock for a playoff spot when Dunleavy was traded to them.

3) Golden State (former team for Dunleavy) looks dead in the water and goes nuts here at the end of the season and makes the playoffs while failing to do so when Dun was on the team. And of course that brings me to...

4) LA Clippers (Brand, Maggette, Ewing) will now miss the playoffs by one game. Terrible follow up to a great season last year.

And I want to make it clear that I don't see how anyone could blame any of the Dukies on any of these teams for what happened. Fact is they all played pretty good for the year. And we will be represented well with Chicago, Houston (Shane), Utah (Carlos), and Orlando (Grant & JJ) all making the playoffs. But LA not making it is a real downer, as they had 3 Dukies playing.

Gary

VaDukie
04-19-2007, 08:12 AM
I agree its a dissapointing development, but I wouldn't give up on the Bulls yet. They still hold home court in their series against the Heat, and I honestly think they're a better team than the Pistons, so who knows how far they could go.

Skitzle
04-19-2007, 08:14 AM
As a Bay Area native, I'll take my first playoffs in 13 years over three more dukies leaving in the first round of the playoffs.

SlimSlowSlider
04-19-2007, 09:21 AM
I wonder how Larry Bird feels about that trade now? For all those people who complained about Dun not getting enough PT in Golden State, maybe the problem was not the coach, but Dun.

_Gary
04-19-2007, 09:31 AM
I wonder how Larry Bird feels about that trade now? For all those people who complained about Dun not getting enough PT in Golden State, maybe the problem was not the coach, but Dun.

And what in the world would make you say that? I'd love to hear your analysis of how Dunleavy is to blame for the Pacers not making the playoffs. Of course I guess O'Neal being hurt for a big stretch during the late season losing streak had nothing to do with it. Somehow it's Duns' fault, right? :rolleyes:

And here's to hoping Dallas takes out GS quick and easy. They deserve nothing less in my eyes. I truly cannot stand many of the players on that team. Richardson, Davis, and Stephen Jackson are all players I have zero respect for. Again, here's to hoping they get eliminated in the most brutal way possible.

Gary

JJweMISSu
04-19-2007, 11:58 AM
2) Indiana (Dunleavy) misses the playoffs for the first time in ages, after looking like a lock for a playoff spot when Dunleavy was traded to them.

What are you talking about? I live in Indiana and that comment was no way near true. When Dunleavy and Ike Diogu and Troy Murphy for Harrington jackson and Sarunas Jasikevicius we knew we where going down. How can you say they where a lock with them? One thing, Dunleavy shots the ball way to much, and Murphy get rebounds but doesn't do anything Harrington and Jackson provided. The only reason the Pacers did that trade was to help there "bad boy" image go away. So don't think they did that trade because dunleavy and murphy are better than harrington and jackson.

_Gary
04-19-2007, 01:00 PM
What are you talking about? I live in Indiana and that comment was no way near true.

The perception at the time of the trade, on the part of Indiana, may have been that they were unloading some baggage (Jackson in particular) and that they wouldn't be contending for the division crown. But no way can you tell me at the time of the trade that Indiana thought they'd miss the playoffs. They were in solid position at that time to make it in! It took a horrible late season collapse for them to miss the playoffs this year, and that was with O'Neal being hurt. Dunleavy and Murphy aren't the reasons the Pacers missed the playoffs - period!

I dare you to look back at the Pacers record at the time of the trade and tell me they were not in position to make the playoffs. Nothing could be further from the truth.

SlimSlowSlider
04-19-2007, 01:06 PM
Gary, You may be right about Indiana. But Golden State's fortune's certainly turned around after the trade.

_Gary
04-19-2007, 01:22 PM
Gary, You may be right about Indiana. But Golden State's fortune's certainly turned around after the trade.

Oh, there's no denying that GS getting Jackson was a great deal for them. Murphy had been up and down his whole career for the Warriors, and Dunleavy just never seemed to get in sync with Richardson and Davis. That's why I was so happy to see him get a change of scenery. I was quite confident his playing time and numbers would go up significantly at Indiana, and they did! That's why I can't see anyone blaming him for the Pacers failure to make the playoffs. No way was it his fault. Frankly, I think he'll continue to thrive there as long as they don't trade him away to another team. I like the coaching style and the whole Pacer organization. I think it's a great fit for Mike, so I hope he gets to stay there and become a very solid NBA player.

I'm still not sure about the Warriors automatically going from bad to great right after the trade. I get the impression they still floundered a good bit after the trade. They simply caught fire at the right time here at the end of the season, and that got them in, IMHO. I can't say they got in just because they got rid of Dunleavy and Murphy, while bringing in Jackson. It helped big time, for sure. But I'm not going to give all the credit to Jackson for the turn around. Some, yes. All, no.

ikiru36
04-19-2007, 02:22 PM
And what in the world would make you say that? I'd love to hear your analysis of how Dunleavy is to blame for the Pacers not making the playoffs. Of course I guess O'Neal being hurt for a big stretch during the late season losing streak had nothing to do with it. Somehow it's Duns' fault, right? :rolleyes:

And here's to hoping Dallas takes out GS quick and easy. They deserve nothing less in my eyes. I truly cannot stand many of the players on that team. Richardson, Davis, and Stephen Jackson are all players I have zero respect for. Again, here's to hoping they get eliminated in the most brutal way possible.

Gary

Dunleavy has played pretty well since the trade (most numbers at best of his career, in fact), and while a good player is simply not all-star caliber (really needs a consistent 3 pt. shot to compliment the rest of his game). The trade, as noted elsewhere, was a lot about dumping S. Jackson and his bad press, but also about improving the Pacers inside presence as a compliment to O'Neal. Unfortunately for the Pacers, O'Neal struggled with some injuries, but more importantly, Murphy was extremely disappointing and Diogu is still not quite ready for prime time.

Having been to quite a few Warriors games down the stretch (playoff tickets already obtained!), the biggest issue that I see in evaluating the trade is that Stephen Jackson's value as a player is highly under-rated. Every time I've seen them play, that guy is a match-up nightmare. He simply brings whatever the team needs on each given night, whether it is overall scoring, assists, 3's, steals...etc. Basically, thusfar anyways, he is the ideal point-forward Nelly-ball guy that it was hoped (through no fault of his own) Dunleavy would be. I certainly remain wary given Jackson's past history, but he has been going above and beyond out here to win the fans over and be a steadying influence on a young team.

In any event, though the Pacers certainly expected to make the Playoffs in the East this year, the trade was more about Diogu's potential and PR issues and its value to them was always more likely to manifest in the coming years rather than immediately. (Though if they were to end up losing O'Neal anyways, due to disappointment re:missing the playoffs and his pal Harrington being traded away, the trade will become very questionable at that point from Indiana's perspective.)

As for the Dallas series, it ought to be very interesting given all of the Don Nelson related intrigue as well as the Warriors amazing recent success against the Mavs (having, I believe, won 6 of the last 7 against Dallas). This Warriors team has been playing very well winning 16 of their last 21, most by wide margins. It will be most interesting to see how they respond to playing from behind or in some close games (both of which are inevitable) because, they've really not had many such moments since Richardson and Davis returned from injury, approximately 20 games ago. Perhaps we'll see cracks in the Stephen Jackson altar boy facade at that point, or perhaps he just needed to get away from Indianapolis and get a fresh start. Tune in to see!

JJweMISSu
04-19-2007, 06:29 PM
Oh, there's no denying that GS getting Jackson was a great deal for them. Murphy had been up and down his whole career for the Warriors, and Dunleavy just never seemed to get in sync with Richardson and Davis. That's why I was so happy to see him get a change of scenery. I was quite confident his playing time and numbers would go up significantly at Indiana, and they did! That's why I can't see anyone blaming him for the Pacers failure to make the playoffs. No way was it his fault. Frankly, I think he'll continue to thrive there as long as they don't trade him away to another team. I like the coaching style and the whole Pacer organization. I think it's a great fit for Mike, so I hope he gets to stay there and become a very solid NBA player.

I'm still not sure about the Warriors automatically going from bad to great right after the trade. I get the impression they still floundered a good bit after the trade. They simply caught fire at the right time here at the end of the season, and that got them in, IMHO. I can't say they got in just because they got rid of Dunleavy and Murphy, while bringing in Jackson. It helped big time, for sure. But I'm not going to give all the credit to Jackson for the turn around. Some, yes. All, no.

Up in the underlined version what are you talking about? He is averaging 4.1 minutes more per game. Shooting 45% from the firld and a horrid 28% from the three. WHile Harrington is 45% and Jackson is 46% from the field and harrington is 42% and jackson is 34% from the three, both averageing more pts block and asts. and harrington gets more rebs. So im goining to say by getting dunleavy he had to atleast be a big piece along with JO getting hurt for this collaps.

_Gary
04-19-2007, 06:45 PM
Up in the underlined version what are you talking about? He is averaging 4.1 minutes more per game. Shooting 45% from the firld and a horrid 28% from the three. WHile Harrington is 45% and Jackson is 46% from the field and harrington is 42% and jackson is 34% from the three, both averageing more pts block and asts. and harrington gets more rebs. So im goining to say by getting dunleavy he had to atleast be a big piece along with JO getting hurt for this collaps.

First off, I've got Mike's minutes increasing over twice the amount you cite (my source is NBA.com). He went from only starting 6 games at GS this year to starting all 42 once he got to Indiana. That's huge and it is very significant! His shooting percentages didn't go up, but his overall opportunities to score and be a bigger part of the team definitely went up when he left GS. My perspective is that Mike didn't have the mental makeup to play with guys like Richardson, Davis, Pietrus and others on the Warriors team. You have to be ultra aggressive when playing with guys like that, because that's their mentality. And if you don't play with that same mindset that they do, you end up getting lost and not able to contribute. It's a totally different system and mindset at Indiana. More team oriented, IMHO. And that's the type of environment Mike needs to play in. Not on a team filled with gunners, which is the impression I get from guys like Davis, Richardson, Pietrus and Jackson.

And I've never compared the merits of the trade as far as which team got the better deal. That's not my point. I was only looking at this from the angle of whether or not it helped Mike. And I think it did. I also don't believe you can prove that Dunleavy was the reason the Pacers didn't make the playoffs. No way am I buying that.

Gary

Kewlswim
04-19-2007, 10:49 PM
First off, I've got Mike's minutes increasing over twice the amount you cite (my source is NBA.com). He went from only starting 6 games at GS this year to starting all 42 once he got to Indiana. That's huge and it is very significant! His shooting percentages didn't go up, but his overall opportunities to score and be a bigger part of the team definitely went up when he left GS. My perspective is that Mike didn't have the mental makeup to play with guys like Richardson, Davis, Pietrus and others on the Warriors team. You have to be ultra aggressive when playing with guys like that, because that's their mentality. And if you don't play with that same mindset that they do, you end up getting lost and not able to contribute. It's a totally different system and mindset at Indiana. More team oriented, IMHO. And that's the type of environment Mike needs to play in. Not on a team filled with gunners, which is the impression I get from guys like Davis, Richardson, Pietrus and Jackson.

And I've never compared the merits of the trade as far as which team got the better deal. That's not my point. I was only looking at this from the angle of whether or not it helped Mike. And I think it did. I also don't believe you can prove that Dunleavy was the reason the Pacers didn't make the playoffs. No way am I buying that.

Gary

Hi,

I was excited when Mike Dunleavy came to the Warriors because I am a fan of both Mike's and the Warriors. It was obvious that this was not a good fit and I was happy when he was able to head to Indiana. I have to admit, If I didn't grow up rooting for the Warriors it would be hard to do so because they seem to have players I normally wouldn't embrace. Life throws us a few curveballs sometimes.

GO DUKE!

GO WARRIORS!

DukieUGA
04-20-2007, 10:31 AM
i was highly disappointed in the Clips, they completely choked away the end of their season while the Warriors got red-hot at the right time. Kudos to them i guess. Brand for the first time in his career i think, finished with numbers that were worse than his career average, which is saying that he had improved his production every year in his career until this year.
As for Dunleavy, his overall field goal % is higher this year than his career % but 3pt% is lower. I think he should maybe do what Deng, Dahntay Jones and Grant did, basically forget the 3ball and take more quality mid-range jumpers. Doing that, Deng and Jones not only saw their 3pt% go up but also their overall FG% too and Hill saw his FG% well above his career FG%. I would also suggest that Deng and Jones'r overall usefulness to the team went up as did their scoring. Dunleavy is about Deng's height and has a pretty good handle on the ball, he might want to concentrate more on mid-range shots and getting to the rack. Anyway, it took a little bit of time but Dun got used to playing withe other Pacers and over his last 20 games or so his numbers were much better than they were earlier in the year and better than his career averages.

A-Tex Devil
04-20-2007, 08:33 PM
Dun will never live down being a No. 3 pick. He's a nice player but the ultimate example of someone who is good in a lot of areas, but not excellent in any (at the NBA level). He gets drafted about 10 spots lower and I'd argue he's having a nice career.

I could definitely see him playing a key role on a championship team several years down the line, but it's become pretty clear, system or not, that he was overvalued as a third pick. It's too bad he gets the bad press he gets because he is certainly a contributor, just not the unique player I think people thought he was going to be coming out of Duke.