Available players...

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I don't know the best web sites or where on here one can find what available guards there are for next season (guys who haven't signed yet)? Are there any left that can both be admitted to Duke and that Duke would potentially like to have? If there are, who are they? I don't think there are any left, we have, who we have. I was thinking maybe JUCO, but people at Duke don't seem to like those kids.

By the way, I really liked Taylor King. I wish he would have been more committed (from what I understand) to physical conditioning and playing defense. He could have played a lot next year. Oh well, wasn't meant to be.

Thanks!!

GO DUKE!

[Bob Green]

Scout.com lists 99 of their top 100 players in the Class of 2009 as commited:

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2009

Lance Stephenson is the exception. I too was a big Taylor King fan. If he had hung around,.....oh well, he didn't and I think he will have trouble securing playing time at Villanova next year.

[Devilsfan]

I wish they could have given Elliott a semester off so he could attend to his family's needs. I would much rather have one EW than five TKs.

[ACCBBallFan]

Scout.com lists 99 of their top 100 players in the Class of 2009 as commited:

http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&cfg=bb&pid=88&yr=2009

Lance Stephenson is the exception. I too was a big Taylor King fan. If he had hung around,.....oh well, he didn't and I think he will have trouble securing playing time at Villanova next year.

Duke needs guards not another tall. So Taylor only helps on Offense if his shot selection improves a little and his defense improves a lot.

I think Nova needs his height more than Duke does, but King Taylor may find he needs to give up cigarettes there too to play much.

He's a little more proven than Kelly/Mason but not a lot.

[Lightz]

Are there any good USC de-commits that could potentially come and help out? I doubt Lance Stephenson would be an option but imo it wouldn't be that bad since he'd only be around for a year anyway.

[Kewlswim]

I wish they could have given Elliott a semester off so he could attend to his family's needs. I would much rather have one EW than five TKs.

Hi,

EWill might have had a chance to take time off and return to Duke and didn't want to. Maybe he just wanted, for whatever reason, out?

GO DUKE!

[Greg_Newton]

Did Eric Bledsoe ever actually sign a LOI? I know there's no way K would ever pursue him now, but it's going to be sooooo frustrating watching this formerly Duke-infatuated talent ride the bench behind Wall all year while we make do with 2 SGs and no PG. In a just and logical world, he would be at Duke... :rolleyes:

Sigh...

[SupaDave]

Did Eric Bledsoe ever actually sign a LOI? I know there's no way K would ever pursue him now, but it's going to be sooooo frustrating watching this formerly Duke-infatuated talent ride the bench behind Wall all year while we make do with 2 SGs and no PG. In a just and logical world, he would be at Duke... :rolleyes:

Sigh...

I guess you wont even notice Patrick Patterson pounding the boards then. Looks like you're slowly moving on...

[Bluedog]

Did Eric Bledsoe ever actually sign a LOI? I know there's no way K would ever pursue him now, but it's going to be sooooo frustrating watching this formerly Duke-infatuated talent ride the bench behind Wall all year while we make do with 2 SGs and no PG. In a just and logical world, he would be at Duke... :rolleyes:

Sigh...

Duke NEVER offered Bledsoe as far as I know. So, while there certainly was some interest shown, Bledsoe was never going to commit to Duke and its hard to call him a "Duke-infatuated talent" when no scholarship offer was extended. (Likely due to academic reasons and not basketball-related).

[jimsumner]

There's no one out there without significant baggage who is going to be much help. Barring a Euro-surprise, look for Duke to pocket the scholarship and use it on someone from the class of 2010.

[RockyMtDevil]

Has the former USC guard signed with anyone yet? Looks like Jones is headed to zona, any chance we could land D. Williams?

[jimsumner]

I'm sure there's someone out there better than a walk-on. But not by much.

Let's think long-term here. Curry, Hairston, Dawkins, and Thornton become eligible in 2010-11. Duke is in great shape with Harrison Barnes. Duke expects to bring in one of Knight/Irving/McCallum/Jackson. The extra schollie gives Duke a legit shot at another top-level player, Ferguson, perhaps, or Tarik Black, or Jason Morris, or the kid from the Cameroons. Or Mychal Parker or Roscoe Smith or Casey Prather if Duke misses on Barnes.

If that doesn't pan out, then you've got an extra scholarship for the class of 2011.

So, would EW's scholarship be better used on a marginal guard who would most likely become irrelevant after one season or on a blue-chipper in the class of 2010?

I think it's pretty clear where I stand here. I'd take a 2007ish season in exchange for a better chance at a return to the Final Four down the line.

It's a situation I wish had not been thrust on Duke. But waiting seems a better option than panicking to me.

[RockyMtDevil]

Is there any chance whatsoever that Duke takes a major risk on Lance Stephenson? It appears both camps are in far different circumstances than they were in 4 weeks ago.

[jimsumner]

When I referenced "significant baggage" in an earlier post, I was referring to Mr. Stephenson.

I would be astonished to see Duke go after him.

[cspan37421]

Is there any chance whatsoever that Duke takes a major risk on Lance Stephenson? It appears both camps are in far different circumstances than they were in 4 weeks ago.

It appears to me to be zero. Look at all the other programs that won't touch him - and the reasons for doing so. I suspect Duke's standards for each of those reasons are at least as high as the schools that have passed on him.

There was some article linked that referred to 4 main reasons: attitude, academics, obstreperous parent, and ineligibility due to lack of amateur status ($$ from some video company / arrangement, lance tv or something like that). Oh, and I think there's an assault accusation, too, that may still need to be adjudicated.
here (http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/high_school/2009/06/21/2009-06-21_end_zone_who_wants_lance.html) it is:

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/high_school/2009/06/21/2009-06-21_end_zone_who_wants_lance.html

Perhaps most importantly, if he is later found to be ineligible, and Duke takes him knowing that's a risk, you're talking potential for vacated wins - perhaps more? I suspect that's the single biggest reason to avoid him.

[Kishiznit]

Is there any way we can get Marty back for one year? With one year of eligibility left - this seems to be the best option. Any news if he has left Durham for good???

[airowe]

Pocius has signed with an agent. Not sure if Marty Clark has any eligibility left

[weezie]

I guess you wont even notice Patrick Patterson pounding the boards then. Looks like you're slowly moving on...

At the risk of offending a mod...too funny..........

[Kedsy]

I'm sure there's someone out there better than a walk-on. But not by much.

Let's think long-term here. Curry, Hairston, Dawkins, and Thornton become eligible in 2010-11. Duke is in great shape with Harrison Barnes. Duke expects to bring in one of Knight/Irving/McCallum/Jackson. The extra schollie gives Duke a legit shot at another top-level player, Ferguson, perhaps, or Tarik Black, or Jason Morris, or the kid from the Cameroons. Or Mychal Parker or Roscoe Smith or Casey Prather if Duke misses on Barnes.

If that doesn't pan out, then you've got an extra scholarship for the class of 2011.

So, would EW's scholarship be better used on a marginal guard who would most likely become irrelevant after one season or on a blue-chipper in the class of 2010?

I think it's pretty clear where I stand here. I'd take a 2007ish season in exchange for a better chance at a return to the Final Four down the line.

It's a situation I wish had not been thrust on Duke. But waiting seems a better option than panicking to me.

I completely agree with this. I think those who are clamoring for another Andre Buckner are off base. That sort of player is serviceable, but only marginally better than a Davidson-type walk-on. The scholarship would be much better utilized on a top 2010 player.

[Carlos]

Is there any chance whatsoever that Duke takes a major risk on Lance Stephenson? It appears both camps are in far different circumstances than they were in 4 weeks ago.

Lance's history is too checkered for Maryland to take a chance on... there's no way that Duke does anything.

[Carlos]

Has the former USC guard signed with anyone yet? Looks like Jones is headed to zona, any chance we could land D. Williams?

Williams is more of a small forward than a guard and it doesn't make any sense to take him when you could bank that scholarship and use it on a guy like Roscoe Smith, Mychal Parker, or Dominique Ferguson in the next class.

[BD80]

We need a reverse Paulus.

What football recruits in his year were also good basketball players? Looking for a two-sport star in high school that has exhausted football eligibility but could still play one year of bball. He would have to have a degree, and not have used his red shirt year. This is the kind of one-and-done we need now.
We may have to wait and see how NFL training camps go.

Seven scholarships available to give out next year; three plus Curry already accounted for. Some REALLY good players interested in Duke in the 2010 class. I'd rather not burn a scholarship on a guy that would have the right to expect a scholarship past this year.

[Oriole Way]

I'm sure there's someone out there better than a walk-on. But not by much.

Let's think long-term here. Curry, Hairston, Dawkins, and Thornton become eligible in 2010-11. Duke is in great shape with Harrison Barnes. Duke expects to bring in one of Knight/Irving/McCallum/Jackson. The extra schollie gives Duke a legit shot at another top-level player, Ferguson, perhaps, or Tarik Black, or Jason Morris, or the kid from the Cameroons. Or Mychal Parker or Roscoe Smith or Casey Prather if Duke misses on Barnes.

If that doesn't pan out, then you've got an extra scholarship for the class of 2011.

So, would EW's scholarship be better used on a marginal guard who would most likely become irrelevant after one season or on a blue-chipper in the class of 2010?

I think it's pretty clear where I stand here. I'd take a 2007ish season in exchange for a better chance at a return to the Final Four down the line.

It's a situation I wish had not been thrust on Duke. But waiting seems a better option than panicking to me.

I'd have to disagree. This is a worse situation than in 2000 when Andre Buckner was a last minute addition to the team. I would have no problem giving a scholarship to a player of similar ability - someone not much better than a walk-on - because the chances of Nolan Smith in particular going down with an injury are way too high.

Duke is an injury away from having one scholarship guard. That scenario would be devastating, and it could potentially affect the team adversely, from a recruiting standpoint or from a developmental standpoint for the team itself, further down the line. I believe Duke will be a Final Four contender in 2010-11 regardless of whether the scholarship is used on an blue-chip talent in the 2010 class.

Not adding an additional guard for this upcoming season would be absolutely reckless.

[COYS]

Is there any chance whatsoever that Duke takes a major risk on Lance Stephenson? It appears both camps are in far different circumstances than they were in 4 weeks ago.

If by far different circumstances you mean that Duke has suddenly decided that it no longer cares about NCAA eligibility rules and does not fear impending sanctions. People talk about how there was smoke around the Williams transfer rumors and soon enough a fire emerged. Well, with Stephenson we can already see a little bit of the blaze. The absolute worst case scenario if we don't take Stephenson is that next year we suffer a few injuries, miss the tourney, Kyle leaves for the NBA, we don't recruit anyone else for 2010 and we start 2010 with a senior Nolan, plus Dawkins, Curry, and Thornton at guard and the Plumlees, Kelly, Olek and Hairston in the post. That's not a horrible option and it's far from devastating to the program. We take Stephenson and we still have a very small chance of reaching the Final Four (possibly smaller than if we don't have him if he is a poor fit with the rest of the team and the staff). However, it could be very likely that Stephenson could take money from agents or something OJ Mayo style or become academically ineligible or any number of things that would hurt Duke far more than having an off year.

I'm very frustrated that we haven't made a Final Four since 2004. I hate to think that a Scheyer will graduate as a member of the third class in a row not to make a final four while at Duke. I stay awake at night dreaming of a day when Duke can beat Carolina 5 out of six times over three seasons and close the gap again on the number of national titles, but I really don't think Stephenson gets us anywhere near any of those dreams.

[ice-9]

The person I feel bad about is Singler. He returned to college basketball to a team with only 2 guards?? Yikes.

[dukelifer]

The person I feel bad about is Singler. He returned to college basketball to a team with only 2 guards?? Yikes.
Returned - meaning that he was on the fence to go pro? Singler is going to be the featured player in Duke's offense- he will be asked to do everything like Ferry. Singler will be just fine.

[whereinthehellami]

Returned - meaning that he was on the fence to go pro? Singler is going to be the featured player in Duke's offense- he will be asked to do everything like Ferry. Singler will be just fine.

I agree. This should help Singler develop his perimeter game, including his ball handling. I'm a big believer in Singler and his potential. The kid has a high ceiling. There is an outside chance IMO that singler blows up in epic fashion becoming an unstoppable force in the college game.

[ice-9]

I don't have any inside info, nor do I know Singler personally. But everything about the young man screams "winner" to me. This is a guy that I think will prefer to win championships while having a good (not great) individual season vs. lose early with a great individual season.

Singler would still have been able to develop his perimeter and ball handling skills with EW on the team -- and Duke would've won many games and have a shot at the championship in the process.

But with EW gone, it figures to be a long season of defensive mismatches and many adjustments.

Still, I have faith that Singler will shine, but I do feel bad for him. He could've gone to the NBA and have been a lottery pick.

[NSDukeFan]

I don't have any inside info, nor do I know Singler personally. But everything about the young man screams "winner" to me. This is a guy that I think will prefer to win championships while having a good (not great) individual season vs. lose early with a great individual season.

Singler would still have been able to develop his perimeter and ball handling skills with EW on the team -- and Duke would've won many games and have a shot at the championship in the process.

But with EW gone, it figures to be a long season of defensive mismatches and many adjustments.

Still, I have faith that Singler will shine, but I do feel bad for him. He could've gone to the NBA and have been a lottery pick.

I agree that Singler is a winner and agree that he still would have been able to work on his ball-handling skills if E-Will was still here and would have a better chance at a championship. But, I also think that Singler will continue to be a winner next year about 25 times or so and will have a fantastic opportunity to showcase perimeter skills that he will need for the NBA.

I think Singler has had a great couple of years, think he is a great prospect and think his return is more important than G's would have been. I don't know that he would have been a lottery pick had he left this year though. I hope he is when he leaves (hopefully after 2 more outstanding years capping an outstanding Duke career)

[dukelifer]

I don't have any inside info, nor do I know Singler personally. But everything about the young man screams "winner" to me. This is a guy that I think will prefer to win championships while having a good (not great) individual season vs. lose early with a great individual season.

Singler would still have been able to develop his perimeter and ball handling skills with EW on the team -- and Duke would've won many games and have a shot at the championship in the process.

But with EW gone, it figures to be a long season of defensive mismatches and many adjustments.

Still, I have faith that Singler will shine, but I do feel bad for him. He could've gone to the NBA and have been a lottery pick.

Singler is not an NBA lottery lock- he could sneak in with an outstanding season 20+ per game etc next season. The kid is an excellent basketball player-no question- but unless you are Kobe-Wade like- are a quick guard, a legit 6' 9" or better forward/center, can shoot lights out or a National Player of the Year with name recognition- a lock you are not.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I feel bad for Kyle Sinler AND Jon Scheyer, these kids have played their hearts out for so long and if anyone deserves to play with a top notch PG, it's both of them. They didn't get one in their whole careers at Duke and now they have to go out like this. They have to be thinking to themselves, "man, I didn't sign up for this."

Call this blasphemy if you will, but I think when it comes to 2010-2011, if Duke does not land a top 2 recruiting class and get back on top with 6-7 open scholarships, would it be a bad idea for the AD to sit down with Coach K and ask if his heart is still into the Duke basketball program?

[SupaDave]

I feel bad for Kyle Sinler AND Jon Scheyer, these kids have played their hearts out for so long and if anyone deserves to play with a top notch PG, it's both of them. They didn't get one in their whole careers at Duke and now they have to go out like this. They have to be thinking to themselves, "man, I didn't sign up for this."

Call this blasphemy if you will, but I think when it comes to 2010-2011, if Duke does not land a top 2 recruiting class and get back on top with 6-7 open scholarships, would it be a bad idea for the AD to sit down with Coach K and ask if his heart is still into the Duke basketball program?

Right - b/c I mean he spends so much time doing non-basketball related things. Are you serious? This is a man who just started making himself available to the media b/c he wanted to IMPROVE the image of the program. And now that we get a bit of a downturn - you want him to question his dedication?

As far as the kids go, I'm sure they are not regretting getting a Duke education and getting to play on TV every game of their career. I'm sure they're real upset about winning the Maui and ACC Championships last year too. Those kids are getting to play basketball at a very high level - and they know it. They've got a new practice facility and some of the best LIVE fans a team could every dream of. I'm sure they are hating the day the decided to live such a horrible life...

[CameronCrazy'11]

I feel bad for Kyle Sinler AND Jon Scheyer, these kids have played their hearts out for so long and if anyone deserves to play with a top notch PG, it's both of them. They didn't get one in their whole careers at Duke and now they have to go out like this. They have to be thinking to themselves, "man, I didn't sign up for this."

Call this blasphemy if you will, but I think when it comes to 2010-2011, if Duke does not land a top 2 recruiting class and get back on top with 6-7 open scholarships, would it be a bad idea for the AD to sit down with Coach K and ask if his heart is still into the Duke basketball program?

yes, it would be a terrible idea.

[camion]

Spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled, spoiled.

Spoiled.

IMO, things aren't nearly as bad as some fear. We have some weaknesses to hide. We have some strengths to emphasize. Injuries could hurt us badly. That's a similar situation to most of the top twenty-five teams in the nation.

[SupaDave]

Singler is not an NBA lottery lock- he could sneak in with an outstanding season 20+ per game etc next season. The kid is an excellent basketball player-no question- but unless you are Kobe-Wade like- are a quick guard, a legit 6' 9" or better forward/center, can shoot lights out or a National Player of the Year with name recognition- a lock you are not.

I think if you can draft Kevin Love's chubby tail at 5 then Singler has a good chance of going in the lottery.

[weezie]

Singler is not an NBA lottery lock- he could sneak in with an outstanding season 20+ per game etc next season. The kid is an excellent basketball player-no question- but unless you are Kobe-Wade like- are a quick guard, a legit 6' 9" or better forward/center, can shoot lights out or a National Player of the Year with name recognition- a lock you are not.

I beg to differ,slightly. Some teams may go for more flash (exactly who that might be in next year's class, I wouldn't guess beyond the first 2-3 right now) but our Kyle is poised to break out. Just wait and see...

[weezie]

yes, it would be a terrible idea.

Especially THIS AD. He's not in K's weight class and never will be.

[Kewlswim]

I agree. This should help Singler develop his perimeter game, including his ball handling. I'm a big believer in Singler and his potential. The kid has a high ceiling. There is an outside chance IMO that singler blows up in epic fashion becoming an unstoppable force in the college game.

This sounds AWESOME....woo hoo...

GO DUKE!

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

Aren't injuries and foul trouble a part of every team? Some teams have more "depth," but if the catalyst for the offense (for example) goes down a team can go right into a funk.

I see us trying to develop a lot of guys who are interchangeable (on some level) and who--even if one of our two traditional guards goes down the whole engine won't sputter and die.

We won't have four guys standing around watching a stud guard go to work. I would have loved this situation, J Williams on this team would be awesome, but we don't have it.

GO DUKE!

[ice-9]

I think if you can draft Kevin Love's chubby tail at 5 then Singler has a good chance of going in the lottery.

100% agree.

I mean damn, who's a better NBA prospect? Singler or Hansbrough? Singler is hardworking, skilled, upstanding and has a huge upside. He'd be a safe pick who has the potential to become a future star.

[airowe]

Come back from the ledge. Its not gut-check time for Coach K. Glad that's not the vocal majority on these boards. Its a big reason why I've read these boards for a long time.

To bring this discussion back to the original question of available players for the '09-'10 season, every post I've read in this thread seems to suggest that offering a scholly to an uncommitted player would lead to that player being under scholarship for four years. Can Duke offer a one year scholarship with the option to review at the end of that one year? After all, there's no guarantee we fill the three remaining scholarships for '10-'11.

Also, I like the Reverse Paulus idea. Are there any of these out there? How tall is Eron Riley? ;)

[jimsumner]

All scholarships are for one year and are subject to review. When a walk-on like Steve Johnson gets a scholarship, it is with that understanding.

So, yes Duke could do what you suggest. But every player ever recruited by Mike Krzyzewski has been recruited under the assumption that the scholarship would not be revoked for performance issues. Krzyzewski has never done this and I am quite sure that he would not entertain the thought.

In more practical terms, who would accept a scholarship under those conditions?

[airowe]

Jim,
I was thinking someone who wanted to play ACC Basketball at one of the most prestigious universities in the country and didn't have any other options. And not named Lance Stephenson. Admittedly, it is highly unlikely to find such a player at this late stage of the game. Wishful thinking of course.

[Rudy]

I feel bad for Kyle Sinler AND Jon Scheyer, these kids have played their hearts out for so long and if anyone deserves to play with a top notch PG, it's both of them.
Singler is a rising junior and doesn't have to leave unless he wants to. I feel worse for Jon, who is a senior. It should still be a fun season for them, just for different reasons. It seems like another transition year, but with so many young players it's very hard to predict.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Singler is going to be a very good NBA player someday, but my gut says he stays for his senior year and gets his number retired. I agree with the earlier poster who thought Singler's return was more important than Henderson's. Singler is more versatile and IMHO a better player.

As for Scheyer, I can't help but love the guy. He keeps growing on me and may be one of the most underappreciated Dukies ever.

My bet is that while they would prefer to have Henderson, Williams, etc. back on the team, they view it as a excellent opportunity (a la Duke lacrosse this season) to do the unexpected.

I agree with the point of view that we should save the scholarship for someone we really want instead of band-aiding our lack of guards by offering a scholarship to a marginal player.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I don't know what the year will bring. Practice hasn't even started yet.

Jon is going to have the keys to the club for the year. Wow. We are going to go as far as he can take us. Is he John Wall? Nope. Is he Jay Williams? Nope. He is a steady, heady, calming force. I thought he handled the club better than Greg did last year. Wouldn't you say? Do you wish we had Greg to run the club? I don't. I am stoked for Jon. What a treat. He gets to be "the man."

I'm sure glad I don't have to fight in a fox hole with some of you out there. Before the battles have even started, some have already thrown in the towel. If some of our big men behave like big men in Europe this could really, really be fun. I see a really clogged middle next year where our perimeter shot will need to fall. Yet, it seems like every year our perimeter shot needs to fall for us to be good.

GO DUKE!

[dukelifer]

100% agree.

I mean damn, who's a better NBA prospect? Singler or Hansbrough? Singler is hardworking, skilled, upstanding and has a huge upside. He'd be a safe pick who has the potential to become a future star.

You were suggesting that Singler could have left this year and ended up in the lottery- I do not see it. Can he get there- sure- but he will need to be POY caliber this year or next. Hansbrough is a legit 6' 9" and strong. Kyle is likely closer to 6'6" and while he does a lot well- he needs to be a much more consistent scorer. Kevin Love was drafted because he was bigger/stronger and an NBA level rebounder. Hansbrough will likely be better than Love, IMO. I think Singler is a great college player- but there are question marks there still. He needs a break out season (with more consistent shooting) to put him in the lottery- which is likely going to happen this year.

[Devilsfan]

My money is on Kyle. I don't care how hard he works, Hanstravel (wait he's where he belongs, in the land of many steps basketball) still is not that athletic, imo.

[NSDukeFan]

Hi,

I don't know what the year will bring. Practice hasn't even started yet.

Jon is going to have the keys to the club for the year. Wow. We are going to go as far as he can take us. Is he John Wall? Nope. Is he Jay Williams? Nope. He is a steady, heady, calming force. I thought he handled the club better than Greg did last year. Wouldn't you say? Do you wish we had Greg to run the club? I don't. I am stoked for Jon. What a treat. He gets to be "the man."

I'm sure glad I don't have to fight in a fox hole with some of you out there. Before the battles have even started, some have already thrown in the towel. If some of our big men behave like big men in Europe this could really, really be fun. I see a really clogged middle next year where our perimeter shot will need to fall. Yet, it seems like every year our perimeter shot needs to fall for us to be good.

GO DUKE!

I agree with your post entirely, except I would love to have Greg back and have a better ending for him. (I do agree with you that Jon handled running the team better though.)

[miramar]

Jim,
I was thinking someone who wanted to play ACC Basketball at one of the most prestigious universities in the country and didn't have any other options. And not named Lance Stephenson. Admittedly, it is highly unlikely to find such a player at this late stage of the game. Wishful thinking of course.

I think that we have left long shots far behind and are now into Hail Marys. Nevertheless, there is a reason why Coach K keeps a rosary in his front pocket: he takes it out in desperate situations, so this might be the time.

If I understand the NCAA Transfer Guide (“Transfer 101”) correctly (and I’m not making any guarantees) a junior college player who wants to play at a Division I school is called a 2-4 transfer. These transfers are allowed to play right away at the Division I school even after one year at the junior college (or even after only one term). In other words, if there is a rising sophomore at a community college who is a good student, and who was planning to get his AA degree next year and then transfer, he could change his mind at this time and commit to a Division I school.

I know, I know, but what can I say except Ave Maria, gratia plena, Dominus tecum...

[DevilDan]

Jon DID do a fine job in running the point when moved there last year. But again, it's NOLAN that holds the key to our game in the open court and in the halfcourt offense. Jon needs to be free to slide to the "2", and get his shots. I like our chances if this evolves, and Jon has 10-12 good looks at the rim per game.

I've got this gut feeling that the difference between DUKE being a "good" team, or a "contender" for the ACC, ACC Tourney, and NCAA Titles (maybe a stretch there) is the development / play of NOLAN and MASON. Re Nolan, his performance will greatly influence KYLE's game -- because HE is our STUD. If we get 33-35 ppg from KYLE & JON, I think we're good to GO.

MASON has got to bring that Basketball Jones savvy and big motor to the frontcourt. At best, he becomes an impact player early, who can make contributions a la McRoberts -- but put the ball in the HOOP, TOO. At worst, if he's not ready for minutes in the fall, he can still be kicking butt in practice, and making Brian / Miles / Lance step up to the plate.

I LIKE that we have a few ? marks at this point. Our letterman will come back hungry, with something to prove, and our freshmen will play their guts out to be a part of something BIG. GO DUKE !

AND JUST FOR FUN, DUKIES ....
#1 -- Take a look at this year's roster ...
#2 -- Take a look at the 2010-2011 returners + the incoming Class ... and SALIVATE.

[ACCBBallFan]

...

I'm sure glad I don't have to fight in a fox hole with some of you out there. Before the battles have even started, some have already thrown in the towel. If some of our big men behave like big men in Europe this could really, really be fun. I see a really clogged middle next year where our perimeter shot will need to fall. Yet, it seems like every year our perimeter shot needs to fall for us to be good.

GO DUKE! Amen to that. Sounds more like the France army than fans of a premier basketball program.

We have 9 top 100 guys and a mid major has one. Take that hill, we can do it, we have Elliott. Charge heard and reacted to 9 times .

First guy comes back running and shouting. Sound the retreat, Elliott's leaving and we only have 8 and I heard they might have 2. We don't stand a chance. We'll fight next year when we get more troops.

I was never in the military but do have 60 years of life experience and sounds like half of this and the other Duke boards only have people who have been given everything by their parents from birth, and never scrapped for anything.

So foxhole analogy is on the money, Got your back is not in a lot of these people's vocabulary.

[SMO]

You were suggesting that Singler could have left this year and ended up in the lottery- I do not see it. Can he get there- sure- but he will need to be POY caliber this year or next. Hansbrough is a legit 6' 9" and strong. Kyle is likely closer to 6'6" and while he does a lot well- he needs to be a much more consistent scorer. Kevin Love was drafted because he was bigger/stronger and an NBA level rebounder. Hansbrough will likely be better than Love, IMO. I think Singler is a great college player- but there are question marks there still. He needs a break out season (with more consistent shooting) to put him in the lottery- which is likely going to happen this year.

Hans is 6' 8.25". Maybe that's "a legit 6'9" " to some folks. He is strong as measured by the bench, but I'm surprised at how many guys have an equal or better bench score. Can't wait to see how Kyle stacks up in 2 years:)

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

[DevilDan]

From a dukelifer wannabe, to the REAL GUY ...

Best part of your post was this: in 2 years.

Can you imagine the possibilities if KYLE sticks around for 2010-2011 ?

[DevilDan]

Whoops, just looked back at the previous post, where I should have credited the FORMIDABLE MR. SMO with those three words. Apologies ... I AM NOT WORTHY ! I looked at your sign, and I DO NOT WISH to INCUR YOUR WRATH ! !

ha ! GO DUKE ! ! !

[cspan37421]

+1 on the foxhole analogy. The nattering nabobs of negativism can take their fair-weather fandom elsewhere, AFAIC.

This is a great opportunity for both Jon and Nolan. Jon showed how well he could handle the responsibility last year - and yet still score! Let me know where it is written that a point guard can't shoot, that a forward with a good handle can't bring the ball upcourt, and maybe I'll start to be concerned. As for walk-on backups, if their development takes off to the point that they're contributing during games, what a feel-good story that will be. An even stronger connection to the student body at large will be felt.

In a way it could be really good for us. Too many on this forum have been looking to concentrate responsibility for the team's success into the hands of just one or two guys who are perceived as "must-get" recruits. Championships can be won that way, but can also be won with an ensemble cast. If every guy on the team now has a greater sense that their good play is needed now more than ever, and that they can't put such a large share of the burden on one or two stars, that's a good thing. [I was going to write: This is an opportunity to show character and determination - both for players and for FANS. Who here is up to the task? - but jeez, we still have a GREAT roster! Being optimistic about this team should not be hard, people!]

[COYS]

+1 on the foxhole analogy. The nattering nabobs of negativism can take their fair-weather fandom elsewhere, AFAIC.

This is a great opportunity for both Jon and Nolan. Jon showed how well he could handle the responsibility last year - and yet still score! Let me know where it is written that a point guard can't shoot, that a forward with a good handle can't bring the ball upcourt, and maybe I'll start to be concerned. As for walk-on backups, if their development takes off to the point that they're contributing during games, what a feel-good story that will be. An even stronger connection to the student body at large will be felt.

In a way it could be really good for us. Too many on this forum have been looking to concentrate responsibility for the team's success into the hands of just one or two guys who are perceived as "must-get" recruits. Championships can be won that way, but can also be won with an ensemble cast. If every guy on the team now has a greater sense that their good play is needed now more than ever, and that they can't put such a large share of the burden on one or two stars, that's a good thing. [I was going to write: This is an opportunity to show character and determination - both for players and for FANS. Who here is up to the task? - but jeez, we still have a GREAT roster! Being optimistic about this team should not be hard, people!]

I completely agree. Maybe this does dampen final four hopes a little, but it hardly ruins the season. It will be very interesting to watch the freshmen develop . . . something that will pay dividends for many years to come, regardless as to whether or not we add to our 2010 recruiting class. It will also be fun to watch the team this coming season, as we'll get to see old faces in new roles and new faces that get to play an important role in every game.

[dukelifer]

Hans is 6' 8.25". Maybe that's "a legit 6'9" " to some folks. He is strong as measured by the bench, but I'm surprised at how many guys have an equal or better bench score. Can't wait to see how Kyle stacks up in 2 years:)

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

You are right- I had thought he measured 6' 8.75" - still he is a pretty big guy- slightly taller and fitter than Kevin Love.

[Saratoga2]

Hans is 6' 8.25". Maybe that's "a legit 6'9" " to some folks. He is strong as measured by the bench, but I'm surprised at how many guys have an equal or better bench score. Can't wait to see how Kyle stacks up in 2 years:)

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Looking at the pre-draft camp physicals is a good way to take the myth out of player measurements and leaping ability. It seems at least 3/4 of the players are overstating their heights. It turns out that Blake Griffin and Tyler Hansbrough are very similar in size and strength. Blake has the edge in athletic ability but not by that much. The NBA evaluators found Blake to be enough better to draft him #1 whereas Tyler was much further down.

Henderson measured at 6'4", just as advertised. His vertical though was overstated by adoring posters here. He had a 35 inch vertical Max, which I suppose means with a running start. The best in the draft was Johnny Flynn with a 40 inch.

As far as Singler is concerned, he has been listed at 6'8". I guess we will have to wait til next year to know the truth.

[Indoor66]

As far as Singler is concerned, he has been listed at 6'8". I guess we will have to wait til next year to know the truth.

IRRC, Duke states height accurately - at least since after Jay Buckly at 6' 11" when he was thought to be over 7'. :)

[SMO]

Looking at the pre-draft camp physicals is a good way to take the myth out of player measurements and leaping ability. It seems at least 3/4 of the players are overstating their heights. It turns out that Blake Griffin and Tyler Hansbrough are very similar in size and strength. Blake has the edge in athletic ability but not by that much. The NBA evaluators found Blake to be enough better to draft him #1 whereas Tyler was much further down.


We're off subject here, but you mentioned how the physicals take the myth out and I agree. What's interesting though, is how much better Griffin is despite their similar measurements. Watching them play head to head was like night and day. I suppose the metrics only tell half the story.

[SMO]

IRRC, Duke states height accurately - at least since after Jay Buckly at 6' 11" when he was thought to be over 7'. :)

Better check what DeMarcus Nelson was listed at vs. draft physical actual height! Dude lost at least 3" overnight.

[Indoor66]

Better check what DeMarcus Nelson was listed at vs. draft physical actual height! Dude lost at least 3" overnight.

All due respect, but look at his official NBA page (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demarcus_nelson/index.html), he is listed at 6' 4".

[dukelifer]

All due respect, but look at his official NBA page (http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demarcus_nelson/index.html), he is listed at 6' 4".

He is definitely not 6' 4" - having stood next to him on several occasions.
Here draft express says he is 6' 1" without shoes, 6' 2.25" with shoes and also lists him at 6' 4".

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/DeMarcus-Nelson-58/

But anyone with his leaping ability, arm length and strength can be listed at anything he wants.

[ACCBBallFan]

It will be interesting to see Kyle standing next to Lance and the Plumlees. I thought Lance is 6'8", Kyle closer to 6'9", Kelly and Miles 6'10" and Mason 6'11"

This year the best gauge of Duke height may be how much shorter than Zoubek are they since most agree Brian is 7' 1".

[dukelifer]

It will be interesting to see Kyle standing next to Lance and the Plumlees. I thought Lance is 6'8", Kyle closer to 6'9", Kelly and Miles 6'10" and Mason 6'11"

This year the best gauge of Duke height may be how much shorter than Zoubek are they since most agree Brian is 7' 1".

Brian is big- This official photo suggests that Miles is perhaps greater than three inches shorter than Zoubs and Lance and Kyle are about the same height (at least from the shoulders down)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=2008-09

This pic shows that DMarc (sitting) is much shorter than everyone else by a lot.

[CameronCrazy'11]

Brian is big- This official photo suggests that Miles is perhaps greater than three inches shorter than Zoubs and Lance and Kyle are about the same height (at least from the shoulders down)

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=2008-09

This pic shows that DMarc (sitting) is much shorter than everyone else by a lot.

Dmarc's not in that picture...

[Carlos]

Hans is 6' 8.25". Maybe that's "a legit 6'9" " to some folks. He is strong as measured by the bench, but I'm surprised at how many guys have an equal or better bench score. Can't wait to see how Kyle stacks up in 2 years:)

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/

Yes, but Hansbrough measured 6-9.5 in shoes which, as they say, is how you play the game.

As for Kyle, I'm pretty sure you'll get to see how he measures up this next year since as a junior it makes absolute sense for him to put his name in the draft and go through the process without an agent.

[dukelifer]

Dmarc's not in that picture...

Oops, I forgot to post the link to another photo

http://goduke.statsgeek.com/basketball-m/seasons/season-stats.php?season=2007-08

[SMO]

Yes, but Hansbrough measured 6-9.5 in shoes which, as they say, is how you play the game.

As for Kyle, I'm pretty sure you'll get to see how he measures up this next year since as a junior it makes absolute sense for him to put his name in the draft and go through the process without an agent.

Next we'll see the NHL listing guys' heights in skates.

[Kedsy]

As for Kyle, I'm pretty sure you'll get to see how he measures up this next year since as a junior it makes absolute sense for him to put his name in the draft and go through the process without an agent.

Well, next year the date to pull your name back out has been moved up to May 8, only giving a couple weeks to "test the waters," which IMO makes that option close to worthless for the players. Also, K has said he favors the player either staying or going (after K and others ask around and determine the probable draft position of the player) and not to go through the motions without an agent.

So, add all that up and I'm not sure you'll see Kyle going through the process without an agent. My guess is he'll either stay or go, although which option he chooses obviously remains to be seen, and there's a lot of time between now and then.

[Cumae Sybl]

Hi,

I'm sure glad I don't have to fight in a fox hole with some of you out there. Before the battles have even started, some have already thrown in the towel. If some of our big men behave like big men in Europe this could really, really be fun. I see a really clogged middle next year where our perimeter shot will need to fall. Yet, it seems like every year our perimeter shot needs to fall for us to be good.

GO DUKE!




Amen to that. Sounds more like the France army than fans of a premier basketball program.

We have 9 top 100 guys and a mid major has one. Take that hill, we can do it, we have Elliott. Charge heard and reacted to 9 times .

First guy comes back running and shouting. Sound the retreat, Elliott's leaving and we only have 8 and I heard they might have 2. We don't stand a chance. We'll fight next year when we get more troops.

I was never in the military but do have 60 years of life experience and sounds like half of this and the other Duke boards only have people who have been given everything by their parents from birth, and never scrapped for anything.

So foxhole analogy is on the money, Got your back is not in a lot of these people's vocabulary.


The two previous posters mentioned foxholes and the France (or French) army.

They are of course alluding to one of the worst defeats in military history, the Maginot Line.

A battle where the French were soundly defeated and quickly turned tail and ran, surrendering absurdly quickly.

A battle where a group of large, immobile, unflexible defenses were overrun by a more nimble, flexible army that took advantage of many different types of weapons in a coordinated attack.

Given next year's roster, is that REALLY the image you want to invoke? Really? Because, as much as I hate to say it, we are France in that scenario.

As for the fox hole nastiness, get over yourself. Rubberstamping every decision doesn't make anyone a better fan than anyone else. No one is saying they will not support the team. We are questioning the decisions that brought the team to a seeming precipice.

To flip your argument, I could argue by asking why you guys dislike Jon so much that you are not upset on his behalf that he has to go into his senior year with so many question marks and so few proven weapons. Because if you are perfectly happy with next year's team, you must not care a whole lot about how successful Jon's final year will be. But I love Jon, and not everbody does.

The only Dukies in a fox hole are the team. And they will feel like it at times this year. And if you don't live in North Carolina (or Maybe KY) alongside the opposing fans, you darn sure have no right, whatsover, to complain about being in a fox hole. When you are surounded by people who actively hate your team, then you are closer to being in a fox hole that sitting somewhere else where the local fans sort of dislike the Devils when they can be bothered to consider them which isn't that often anyhow.

And maybe it isn't smart to go into that foxhole with 1 gun and 50 bullets to go arround, which is what next year is kind of feeling like.

[Kedsy]

The two previous posters mentioned foxholes and the France (or French) army.

They are of course alluding to one of the worst defeats in military history, the Maginot Line.

A battle where the French were soundly defeated and quickly turned tail and ran, surrendering absurdly quickly.

A battle where a group of large, immobile, unflexible defenses were overrun by a more nimble, flexible army that took advantage of many different types of weapons in a coordinated attack.

Given next year's roster, is that REALLY the image you want to invoke? Really? Because, as much as I hate to say it, we are France in that scenario.

As for the fox hole nastiness, get over yourself. Rubberstamping every decision doesn't make anyone a better fan than anyone else. No one is saying they will not support the team. We are questioning the decisions that brought the team to a seeming precipice.

To flip your argument, I could argue by asking why you guys dislike Jon so much that you are not upset on his behalf that he has to go into his senior year with so many question marks and so few proven weapons. Because if you are perfectly happy with next year's team, you must not care a whole lot about how successful Jon's final year will be. But I love Jon, and not everbody does.

The only Dukies in a fox hole are the team. And they will feel like it at times this year. And if you don't live in North Carolina (or Maybe KY) alongside the opposing fans, you darn sure have no right, whatsover, to complain about being in a fox hole. When you are surounded by people who actively hate your team, then you are closer to being in a fox hole that sitting somewhere else where the local fans sort of dislike the Devils when they can be bothered to consider them which isn't that often anyhow.

And maybe it isn't smart to go into that foxhole with 1 gun and 50 bullets to go arround, which is what next year is kind of feeling like.

The French Army metaphor was invoked to refer to fans who appear to have given up on the team four months before the first practice. Perhaps even fans who use phrases like "large, immobile, unflexible defenses" to refer to Duke's team before that team plays a single game.


Sure, even with no additions to the current group we would be OK in 2011, but we would hardly be a national threat. We might be one of the better teams in the conference, but that really speaks more to a conference that right now can expect massive attrition after next year than to Duke raising its own level. With the lineup you mentioned, I don't see Duke as a top 10 team. Somewhere in the 10-20 range, which isn't bad, but then Duke is really just another quality team on the national landscape, and I am not happy with that.

The objections to the negative posts that seem so prevalent in recent days are not inspired by a desire to "rubberstamp" anything, but rather are a protest against the apparent sense of entitlement underlaying statements like yours in which you profess to being unhappy with merely being a team in the 10 to 20 range that is "just another quality team on the national landscape." IMO, someone who makes a statement like that is the person who deserves to be told to "get over yourself."

The players on the team are who they are. As a fan, you get what you get. Hopefully the team will succeed and be a fun team to root for. If it's not, you still root, if you're a fan. I don't have an issue with discussing concerns for the future, but what's the point of finding fault for the past? Especially when it takes away from discussing the team, which still has a chance to be pretty good?

In short, I have a problem seeing eye to eye with someone who describes a top 25 team as being on a "precipice," and then dwells on all the egregious errors that supposedly have brought us to such dire straits.

[Cumae Sybl]

The French Army metaphor was invoked to refer to fans who appear to have given up on the team four months before the first practice. Perhaps even fans who use phrases like "large, immobile, unflexible defenses" to refer to Duke's team before that team plays a single game.



The objections to the negative posts that seem so prevalent in recent days are not inspired by a desire to "rubberstamp" anything, but rather are a protest against the apparent sense of entitlement underlaying statements like yours in which you profess to being unhappy with merely being a team in the 10 to 20 range that is "just another quality team on the national landscape." IMO, someone who makes a statement like that is the person who deserves to be told to "get over yourself."

The players on the team are who they are. As a fan, you get what you get. Hopefully the team will succeed and be a fun team to root for. If it's not, you still root, if you're a fan. I don't have an issue with discussing concerns for the future, but what's the point of finding fault for the past? Especially when it takes away from discussing the team, which still has a chance to be pretty good?

In short, I have a problem seeing eye to eye with someone who describes a top 25 team as being on a "precipice," and then dwells on all the egregious errors that supposedly have brought us to such dire straits.

But, some of the posters want to discuss the future of the team. And some of those posters do not think that future is very good. And they rationally lay out the reasons why that future is not so rosey.

But you lay into them as though they were UNC fans trolling the board.

I, and Oriole and CDu are willing to discuss the future. A future that doesn't seem bright.

When you say you want to discuss the future, you seem to only want to discuss HOW great that future is, not whether or not that future is good or bad.

I am worried about next year's team. I think they are very shallow at the guard position and that none of our bigs have shown anything to indicate they will be able to produce at a high level next year. Our returnees in the post were part of a rotation that was clearly the weakest part of last year's team. Our incoming recruits are question marks.

We are on a precipice. We are a top 25 team heading into next year, on paper. But, what if Kelly and MP2, like many frosh Bigs, aren't ready to compete at a high level on a consistent basis. And what if Z and LT don't noticably improve on last year? What if Kyle, Jon, or Nolan has an injury? We are one bad event from not being a top 25 team. We are 1 bad event and 1 sorta bad event from being a bubble team. How we got here is a great way to figure out how to not get here again.

How would you propose that I lay out my concerns? I do not share your belief that Duke is a top 15 team. I am not positive we are a top 25 team, but that is based more on my lack of knowledge about teams below the top 10-15 than any analysis of this team.

As for entitled? Yes. I feel that way. Sorry for expecting success. I got that idea from some college coach somewhere in Durham. I forget exactly who that was at the moment.

Many here say that lots of teams would like to have the type of seasons that Duke has had recently.

Would UNC, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, or IU like to have those types of seasons? Because we all talk about Duke being one of the elite basketall ball programs in the country, and those guys are the ones in that catagory. And all of them have fired coaches or seriously considered it for coaches that have had similiar results to Duke recently. UNC fired Doh for feilding a team much better than what we have next year. UK fired Smith for being a constant Sweet 16 and conf juggernaugt. UCLA got Howland, and IU fired Davis for merely being pretty good. The KU coaching seat was getting warm prior to his NC 2 years ago. So warm that he was seriously considering the OSU job until he won the title and KU annoited him as their savior.

Excepting IU, which made a bad coaching mistep, and then corrected it, ALL of those other teams are better than us next year. A lot better in most cases. And IU could not win the Conf Reg Season, not win the Conf Tourney, and not escape the first weekend of the NCAA and have the same level of success as Duke next year.

I am not seriously expecting the team to be great every year. But being great occaisionally wouldn't be bad. How far should we lower expectations? What is acceptable to you, the true fan? Merely mete out your unassailable wisdom, and I will abide by it.

[SupaDave]

The French Army metaphor was invoked to refer to fans who appear to have given up on the team four months before the first practice. Perhaps even fans who use phrases like "large, immobile, unflexible defenses" to refer to Duke's team before that team plays a single game.



The objections to the negative posts that seem so prevalent in recent days are not inspired by a desire to "rubberstamp" anything, but rather are a protest against the apparent sense of entitlement underlaying statements like yours in which you profess to being unhappy with merely being a team in the 10 to 20 range that is "just another quality team on the national landscape." IMO, someone who makes a statement like that is the person who deserves to be told to "get over yourself."

The players on the team are who they are. As a fan, you get what you get. Hopefully the team will succeed and be a fun team to root for. If it's not, you still root, if you're a fan. I don't have an issue with discussing concerns for the future, but what's the point of finding fault for the past? Especially when it takes away from discussing the team, which still has a chance to be pretty good?

In short, I have a problem seeing eye to eye with someone who describes a top 25 team as being on a "precipice," and then dwells on all the egregious errors that supposedly have brought us to such dire straits.

Kedsy, sometimes you just make me smile.

Oh yeah, FYI, for the blurb I just read about Jon somehow being disadvantaged b/c of a 'lack' of talent, do you realize that HE is a weapon?

Not to mention he gets the opportunity that MOST D-1 recruits are craving and some are transferring for and that's the opportunity to have the ball in his hands - a LOT...

[Kedsy]

As for entitled? Yes. I feel that way. Sorry for expecting success. I got that idea from some college coach somewhere in Durham. I forget exactly who that was at the moment.

There's a difference between expecting success and being spoiled rotten. That's all I'm saying.

[sagegrouse]

Amen to that. Sounds more like the France army than fans of a premier basketball program.



I am not eager to take up the lost cause of defending the French army, which is the butt of a million jokes. Undeserved butt, I would say. The modern military began with Napoleon, and has Army was a model of professionalism and efficiency. Napoleon's political savvy was atrocious and he ended up training the enemy to do better and better until it was good enough to win. France's record in WWI was commendable, and they clearly were the most effective allied Army but not good enough on its own to defeat a much larger Germany. The losses were so great during WWI that the desire to arm and prepare for WWII was not there (either in France or Britain). But on the eve of WWII French military technology was the world standard.

Perhaps scorn should be reserved for the Italian army, which performed atrociously in both World Wars, even though on the allied side in WWI. At the beginning of WWII Churchill remarked to the British people that it was only fair for Italy to join the Axis, because "after all, we had to have them the last time." Moreover, the Italians, unlike the French, truly don't care much about modern warfare because, after all, they have clearly won the peace. La dolce vita.

sagegrouse

[SupaDave]

Would UNC, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, or IU like to have those types of seasons? Because we all talk about Duke being one of the elite basketall ball programs in the country, and those guys are the ones in that catagory. And all of them have fired coaches or seriously considered it for coaches that have had similiar results to Duke recently. UNC fired Doh for feilding a team much better than what we have next year. UK fired Smith for being a constant Sweet 16 and conf juggernaugt. UCLA got Howland, and IU fired Davis for merely being pretty good. The KU coaching seat was getting warm prior to his NC 2 years ago. So warm that he was seriously considering the OSU job until he won the title and KU annoited him as their savior.

Excepting IU, which made a bad coaching mistep, and then corrected it, ALL of those other teams are better than us next year. A lot better in most cases. And IU could not win the Conf Reg Season, not win the Conf Tourney, and not escape the first weekend of the NCAA and have the same level of success as Duke next year.

I am not seriously expecting the team to be great every year. But being great occaisionally wouldn't be bad. How far should we lower expectations? What is acceptable to you, the true fan? Merely mete out your unassailable wisdom, and I will abide by it.

Oh joy! And yes - most of these programs would like to have the success we have had in the last ten years. Some have had one or two highs to go with a considerable number of lows. UNC is the only program right now that can puff out there chest but they've had their share of issues as well (or would you have liked to watch the Final Four and see your Coach with a Kansas sitcker on?).

And oh yeah - we're the only ones that haven't had to fire their coach!!!

1. Tubby was let go b/c of recruiting but UK fans aren't known for their rational thinking. What was that last coach's name?
2. Hmmmm, the last time Indiana was competitive they had this kid named Jared Jeffries.
3. Self? On the hot seat? (giggle) His first year success clouded the fact that he had Roy's players and was in the process of transitioning the program the next two years. I like this quote from Bill...


“I don’t think it’s fair,” Self said, referring to Gillispie. “You know, you’ve had a lot of coaches out there, overtime, that struggled in their first few years on a job. One of them lives in Durham, N.C. (Duke’s Mike Krzyzewski). You know, 10 Final Fours and three national championships later, they’re probably glad they didn’t move on (firing him).

4. UNC fired Doh for being ummm, less than friendly with the players, it was not necessarily his coaching but it was directly proportional to how the eteam was playing. UNC would have had mass defection if Matt didn't leave.

[Owen Meany]

As for entitled? Yes. I feel that way. Sorry for expecting success. I got that idea from some college coach somewhere in Durham. I forget exactly who that was at the moment.

Many here say that lots of teams would like to have the type of seasons that Duke has had recently.

Would UNC, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky, or IU like to have those types of seasons? Because we all talk about Duke being one of the elite basketall ball programs in the country, and those guys are the ones in that catagory. And all of them have fired coaches or seriously considered it for coaches that have had similiar results to Duke recently. UNC fired Doh for feilding a team much better than what we have next year. UK fired Smith for being a constant Sweet 16 and conf juggernaugt. UCLA got Howland, and IU fired Davis for merely being pretty good. The KU coaching seat was getting warm prior to his NC 2 years ago. So warm that he was seriously considering the OSU job until he won the title and KU annoited him as their savior.



I am not seriously expecting the team to be great every year. But being great occaisionally wouldn't be bad. How far should we lower expectations? What is acceptable to you, the true fan? Merely mete out your unassailable wisdom, and I will abide by it.


Expecting success and feeling entitled to it are two completely different things. If you can find a quote were Coach K is preaching entitlement then I will agree to never post on this board again. In fact, he has quite pointedly spoken out against this sense of entitlement for the past several years. If Coach K does ever leave Duke for the pros, I fell this sense of entitlement among fans will be a prime reason.


Doh and Davis were fired more for their off court antics than anything they did on the court. UNC may have had trouble fielding a team had they not fired Doherty to avert the mutiny brewing amongst the players in Chapel Hill. And how did that work out for Indiana and Kentucky? I bet the Indiana faithful really enjoyed the Sampson non-era.


And, although I don't believe that Kentucky fired Smith, they got exactly what they deserved for not appreciating what they had. The Gillespie era did manage to last longer than the Sampson era however. If you count how long Gillespie's lawsuit drags on you may even add a year or two to his tenure. Gillespies success led directly to the frustration that brought the "Win At All Costs Era", also known as the Calipari Era. Before he's ever coached a practice they are already being rewarded with stories of bogus test scores and athletes having their scholarships yanked out from under them. Who knows what joys (and penalties) lie ahead.


I don't actually remember Self being on the hot seat. But since he managed to win a National Championship in his very short tenure I present this as Exhibit A in my case against spoiled fans with an unjustified sense of entitlement. Since I'm fairly certain this isn't the case you are making, I am confused as to why you would include Self in your analysis.


I have heard time and again that Coach K has become more like Dean Smith over the years. I have yet to see anyone point out that, unfortunately, Duke fans, as a group, are becoming more and more like UNC fans in recent years. For everyone who wants to blame Coach K for something, here's your chance. This is what Coach K's success has wrought.

[Cumae Sybl]

Expecting success and feeling entitled to it are two completely different things. If you can find a quote were Coach K is preaching entitlement then I will agree to never post on this board again. In fact, he has quite pointedly spoken out against this sense of entitlement for the past several years. If Coach K does ever leave Duke for the pros, I fell this sense of entitlement among fans will be a prime reason.


Doh and Davis were fired more for their off court antics than anything they did on the court. UNC may have had trouble fielding a team had they not fired Doherty to avert the mutiny brewing amongst the players in Chapel Hill. And how did that work out for Indiana and Kentucky? I bet the Indiana faithful really enjoyed the Sampson non-era.


And, although I don't believe that Kentucky fired Smith, they got exactly what they deserved for not appreciating what they had. The Gillespie era did manage to last longer than the Sampson era however. If you count how long Gillespie's lawsuit drags on you may even add a year or two to his tenure. Gillespies success led directly to the frustration that brought the "Win At All Costs Era", also known as the Calipari Era. Before he's ever coached a practice they are already being rewarded with stories of bogus test scores and athletes having their scholarships yanked out from under them. Who knows what joys (and penalties) lie ahead.


I don't actually remember Self being on the hot seat. But since he managed to win a National Championship in his very short tenure I present this as Exhibit A in my case against spoiled fans with an unjustified sense of entitlement. Since I'm fairly certain this isn't the case you are making, I am confused as to why you would include Self in your analysis.


I have heard time and again that Coach K has become more like Dean Smith over the years. I have yet to see anyone point out that, unfortunately, Duke fans, as a group, are becoming more and more like UNC fans in recent years. For everyone who wants to blame Coach K for something, here's your chance. This is what Coach K's success has wrought.

Yeah. The last 5 years really showed those Dirty Heels. I hope they learned their lesson.

[MChambers]

Yeah. The last 5 years really showed those Dirty Heels. I hope they learned their lesson.

I think you missed Owen Meany's point.

[Cumae Sybl]

I think you missed Owen Meany's point.

No. I didn't miss his point.

I trust no one is missing my point.

[SupaDave]

We are on a precipice. We are a top 25 team heading into next year, on paper. But, what if Kelly and MP2, like many frosh Bigs, aren't ready to compete at a high level on a consistent basis. And what if Z and LT don't noticably improve on last year? What if Kyle, Jon, or Nolan has an injury? We are one bad event from not being a top 25 team. We are 1 bad event and 1 sorta bad event from being a bubble team. How we got here is a great way to figure out how to not get here again.

How would you propose that I lay out my concerns? I do not share your belief that Duke is a top 15 team. I am not positive we are a top 25 team, but that is based more on my lack of knowledge about teams below the top 10-15 than any analysis of this team.

Your point sounds very much like a SPHM....

[JimBD]

These boards (both here and at Duke.Scout.com) are sometimes unpleasant to read because there are so many whiners, complainers, and Chicken Littles. Hopefully, all these negative comments help to boost the egos of the people making them, because they certainly don't help to make Duke's recruiting any easier. Yes, many of the recruits do read these boards. If you were making a major decision about where to accept a scholarship and go to college, don't you think you would be reading what people are saying about you and the school you are thinking about?

I doubt that many of the complainers are actually Duke grads who went through the rigors of a Duke education, because the Duke I knew produced graduates who were optimistic and worked hard to succeed, not people who sat on their hands and complained.

When I was at Duke, Duke was listed as one of the top ten teams in the country over the last 25 years--in football. Of course higher academic standards have led to difficult times in football and it has taken about 40 years to find that special coach who can lead us back to respectability. If it were not for Coach K, basketball could easily be in the same situation. High academic standards and ethics are appealing to some athletes, but there are plenty of athletes who just don't want to spend much time going to class or studying or who are looking for "enticements" that Duke won't offer. I am happy that Duke maintains a consistently excellent basketball program while maintaining its standards. And yes I believe that we will occasionally get back to the Final Four. And possibly win at least one more National Championship (something no basketball coach other than K has ever done at Duke). For those misguided persons who constantly complain about Coach K and possibly want to see him retire, be careful what you wish for. When Coach K leaves Duke basketball, we will probably be in for a number of lean years unless we're lucky enough to find a very special Coach to take his place. As of now, I cannot name any basketball coach I would rather have at Duke than Coach K.

[dukelifer]

As for entitled? Yes. I feel that way. Sorry for expecting success. I got that idea from some college coach somewhere in Durham. I forget exactly who that was at the moment.

I am not seriously expecting the team to be great every year. But being great occaisionally wouldn't be bad. How far should we lower expectations? What is acceptable to you, the true fan? Merely mete out your unassailable wisdom, and I will abide by it.


Last year I expected a successful team that could compete with UNC for a NC. I think they did that. There was a glimmer of chance they could pull it all together- it just did not happen. There was also more than a glimmer that UNC would fail due to Lawson's injury- but they weathered the storm. Duke did not win it all like every team but UNC, but they won the ACC championship. Duke definitely met the expectations of being a competitive team. It is okay to be disappointed that they did not get farther- but what else can a team do but compete an play hard? Duke did that (except perhaps one game at Clemson). When they stop doing that- then perhaps it is time for a change. All you want is for a team to be in the hunt.

Now it could be that getting to the final four is what is needed to recruit the best players. Perhaps that is true- but there are only a handful of coaches that have done that recently and most of them have not done it consistently. So unless Duke can attract the likes of Izzo or Billy or Roy or Ben, they will have to go with someone who has not been there or done that.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

These boards (both here and at Duke.Scout.com) are sometimes unpleasant to read because there are so many whiners, complainers, and Chicken Littles. Hopefully, all these negative comments help to boost the egos of the people making them, because they certainly don't help to make Duke's recruiting any easier. Yes, many of the recruits do read these boards. If you were making a major decision about where to accept a scholarship and go to college, don't you think you would be reading what people are saying about you and the school you are thinking about?

I doubt that many of the complainers are actually Duke grads who went through the rigors of a Duke education, because the Duke I knew produced graduates who were optimistic and worked hard to succeed, not people who sat on their hands and complained.

When I was at Duke, Duke was listed as one of the top ten teams in the country over the last 25 years--in football. Of course higher academic standards have led to difficult times in football and it has taken about 40 years to find that special coach who can lead us back to respectability. If it were not for Coach K, basketball could easily be in the same situation. High academic standards and ethics are appealing to some athletes, but there are plenty of athletes who just don't want to spend much time going to class or studying or who are looking for "enticements" that Duke won't offer. I am happy that Duke maintains a consistently excellent basketball program while maintaining its standards. And yes I believe that we will occasionally get back to the Final Four. And possibly win at least one more National Championship (something no basketball coach other than K has ever done at Duke). For those misguided persons who constantly complain about Coach K and possibly want to see him retire, be careful what you wish for. When Coach K leaves Duke basketball, we will probably be in for a number of lean years unless we're lucky enough to find a very special Coach to take his place. As of now, I cannot name any basketball coach I would rather have at Duke than Coach K.

Excellent post! We went from having a fabulous coach and being nationally ranked to struggling once before and it was a very tough time. We exited that down period with the hiring of Coach K.

[Kfanarmy]

... Yes, many of the recruits do read these boards. If you were making a major decision about where to accept a scholarship and go to college, don't you think you would be reading what people are saying about you and the school you are thinking about?

I doubt that many of the complainers are actually Duke grads who went through the rigors of a Duke education, because the Duke I knew produced graduates who were optimistic and worked hard to succeed, not people who sat on their hands and complained.

I'm not sure the latter part of this is any better than the "whiners, complainers and Chicken Littles" posts...the sort of 'better than you' statements fuel opinions of Duke in general and denigrate those Duke attendees/graduates whose opinions you disagree with. Frankly both the overly pessimisstic and elitist statements like this; the you're not a true Duke fan if you...; and we're better fans than they are because.... comments all turn me off. Thank the lord the Duke coaching staff get folks to play who do work hard and generally don't exhibit either of these overly pessimistic or egoistic personas.

[ACCBBallFan]

I don't think it is a matter of Attended Duke or not, just too much whining and Jonhny Appleseed when not automatically dealt a hand an Ace of Spades High Royal Straight flush that can't lose.

How about playing the hand you are dealt and doing it as skillfully as you can rather than always looking for a redeal.

Only one team , proibably KU this year, can be the favorite based on roster but the other top 25 or so can certainly compete, especially if they get the right match ups in NCAA play.

Nobody in ACC seems hands down superiror to the top half, but gotta like Duke's and UNC's chances the best as usual, due to number of top 100 guys on roster, superior coaching, winning tradition, and so on.

So many posters on the various Duke boards need to just show some backbone as I am sure the coaching staff and team will.

[Owen Meany]

No. I didn't miss his point.

I trust no one is missing my point.


Obviously, you did miss my point. But since you actually learned about entitlement from a certain coach in Durham I am not surprised that you misread me. For starters, UNC fired Doherty because he treated everyone around him terribly, not because of his record. Parents and players were meeting among themselves and with the athletic director to let him know that they would not continue to play for Doherty. I would say his firing was necessary. Second, I never stated that UNC got what it deserved. UNC had two things that Duke won't have should anyone be so foolish as to make Coach K feel unwanted in Durham - Roy Williams waiting in the wings, and the legacy of Michael Jordan. Some people fail to realize that Coach K is Duke's biggest draw.


Even accepting the false premise that the coaches you named were fired (or nearly so) for results like Duke's recent years - you conveniently ignore the fact that Coach K has literally accomplished more in his career at Duke than all of the "fired" coaches you named combined. And just as you did with the "fired" coaches, you embellished a little. Surely you don't equate Duke's most recent ACC Championship team to Lavin's final 10-19 UCLA team?


You stated "I trust no one is missing my point."

No, your point became crystal clear with this statement.

"As for entitled? Yes. I feel that way."

It doesn't get any clearer than that.

[NSDukeFan]

I don't think it is a matter of Attended Duke or not, just too much whining and Jonhny Appleseed when not automatically dealt a hand an Ace of Spades High Royal Straight flush that can't lose.

How about playing the hand you are dealt and doing it as skillfully as you can rather than always looking for a redeal.

Only one team , proibably KU this year, can be the favorite based on roster but the other top 25 or so can certainly compete, especially if they get the right match ups in NCAA play.

Nobody in ACC seems hands down superiror to the top half, but gotta like Duke's and UNC's chances the best as usual, due to number of top 100 guys on roster, superior coaching, winning tradition, and so on.

So many posters on the various Duke boards need to just show some backbone as I am sure the coaching staff and team will.

I certainly agree with your post and sentiment (I think.) The only small caveat I have is that I think there will be 4 or 5 teams (KU, UK, Mich. St., Nova) that to me look like a top tier, much like Pitt, UConn, UNC, maybe Louisville last year (though in a one and done tourney, that's not how it ended up.) I see no reason Duke shouldn't have a great chance at beating anyone else (as long as we stay healthy) and should be able to compete with the top tier but not be favored. I am expecting with 4 starters back from last year and a much bigger team, we should be in the top 10-20 even with poor backcourt depth.

[dgoore97]

but to get back to the original pont of this thread -- available players..

is there any precedent for a high school commit finishing high school early? Thornton and Dawkins could finish up their HS credits in Dec and join the bball team over the Christmas break.

i know its a longshot, but it's crazy enough that it just.. might.. work!

to all the posters trying to figure out how best to tell my i am stupid.. i am kidding..

[verga]

i was of the opinion that our chances of a NCAA championship were nill after G's departure. I am also of the opinion that we have a coach who can handle our current situation, apparently better than a lot of the posters on this site. K makes the big bucks and there is a reason why, hopefully you'll see why this bball season. As for Lance Stephenson, well, thats just not going to happen, if it did Duke wouldn't be Duke. I'm actually looking forward to this season to see what course of action K is going to pursue. If we have a down season, it won't kill me or you, we'll regroup and come back stronger. I subscribe to what Mr. Sumner said earlier, lets save the scholly and use it the following year. We'll need to play hard but we do that every year, its good to be a Duke fan, this season will show why.

[m g]

but to get back to the original pont of this thread -- available players..

is there any precedent for a high school commit finishing high school early? Thornton and Dawkins could finish up their HS credits in Dec and join the bball team over the Christmas break.

i know its a longshot, but it's crazy enough that it just.. might.. work!

to all the posters trying to figure out how best to tell my i am stupid.. i am kidding..

Greg Echenique did it didn't he?

[-jk]

but to get back to the original pont of this thread -- available players..

is there any precedent for a high school commit finishing high school early? Thornton and Dawkins could finish up their HS credits in Dec and join the bball team over the Christmas break.

i know its a longshot, but it's crazy enough that it just.. might.. work!

to all the posters trying to figure out how best to tell my i am stupid.. i am kidding..

As I recall, Mike Gminski skipped his senior year of high school, much to the dismay of the other schools recruiting him.

-jk

[Tappan Zee Devil]

Yeah. The last 5 years really showed those Dirty Heels. I hope they learned their lesson.

You know - You have been on the board for only about 2 days and have made about 20 posts - none of which have said anything positive
Although you use "we" referring to Duke, I am coming to think that you are a carolina troll :(

Where did you go to school?

[brickey]

Me thinks you're right, Tappan Zee.

Cumae Sybi, mind if I recap your handful of "contributions" to this board so far?

Let's start with the post where you say that if you were Coach K, you'd just chalk next season up as a loss and devote it to developing players for 2010-11.

In another thread you incorrectly point out that other "elite" teams, which you doubt Duke should be counted among, fired their coaches for having better seasons than the ones Duke's recently "suffered."

Elsewhere you argue that Nolan's performance coming off injury last year was an abberation and a poor barometer for future production. Any chance that the "niggling little voice" you mention belongs to someone who retired from basketball 12 years ago but remains in CH?

And your optimism shines brightest in discussing Mr. Barnes, not only when you cast doubt on his true interest in higher education, but when you label any idea that he's not a one-and-done or that Duke's prestige could possibly sway his decision as a "specious hope."

I love the post where you essentially say, "alright, no more mister nice guy.....head-to-head with UNC next year, while Ginyard is certain to hold Jon to 5-10 points, 2 boards, and 'a very few assists,' Coach Frickin will be able to generate offense with the snap of his fingers, regardless of who he has on the floor."

Which brings me to this point, Cumae Sybi: I'm simply amazed by your bottomless well of knowledge about UNC, not to mention your ability to point out the best in "them" and the worst in "us." Whether you're calling UNC the hands-down favorite to win the ACC next year, arguing that UNC's 2008-09 team was more dominant than any other in the last 20 years, projecting Ginyard as a candidate for ACC POY (by equating his Fr-Jr contributions at UNC with C-Well's at Duke), or correcting Wheat, an honest holes fan, on the precise nature of Ginyard's injury, or commending Hubert Davis on his even-handed analysis, the pessimism you've suddenly unleashed on this board makes me wonder if someone just lost their meds, and the perspective you bring sounds as if you're in puppy love with Marcus Ginyard.

Perhaps the post where you take the view of opposing coaches and explain how easy it will be to attack Duke's D next year is more representative of your true self than your use of we, us, and our.

Taken individually, each of your points are somewhat feasible/accurate, albeit less than rosy, but on the whole they flat out smell bad. By all means, please continue to post -- just come out from under your bridge first, okay? (If you are a Duke fan, though, I'll call myself a Devil.)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Me thinks you're right, Tappan Zee.

Cumae Sybi, mind if I recap your handful of "contributions" to this board so far?

Let's start with the post where you say that if you were Coach K, you'd just chalk next season up as a loss and devote it to developing players for 2010-11.

In another thread you incorrectly point out that other "elite" teams, which you doubt Duke should be counted among, fired their coaches for having better seasons than the ones Duke's recently "suffered."

Elsewhere you argue that Nolan's performance coming off injury last year was an abberation and a poor barometer for future production. Any chance that the "niggling little voice" you mention belongs to someone who retired from basketball 12 years ago but remains in CH?

And your optimism shines brightest in discussing Mr. Barnes, not only when you cast doubt on his true interest in higher education, but when you label any idea that he's not a one-and-done or that Duke's prestige could possibly sway his decision as a "specious hope."

I love the post where you essentially say, "alright, no more mister nice guy.....head-to-head with UNC next year, while Ginyard is certain to hold Jon to 5-10 points, 2 boards, and 'a very few assists,' Coach Frickin will be able to generate offense with the snap of his fingers, regardless of who he has on the floor."

Which brings me to this point, Cumae Sybi: I'm simply amazed by your bottomless well of knowledge about UNC, not to mention your ability to point out the best in "them" and the worst in "us." Whether you're calling UNC the hands-down favorite to win the ACC next year, arguing that UNC's 2008-09 team was more dominant than any other in the last 20 years, projecting Ginyard as a candidate for ACC POY (by equating his Fr-Jr contributions at UNC with C-Well's at Duke), or correcting Wheat, an honest holes fan, on the precise nature of Ginyard's injury, or commending Hubert Davis on his even-handed analysis, the pessimism you've suddenly unleashed on this board makes me wonder if someone just lost their meds, and the perspective you bring sounds as if you're in puppy love with Marcus Ginyard.

Perhaps the post where you take the view of opposing coaches and explain how easy it will be to attack Duke's D next year is more representative of your true self than your use of we, us, and our.

Taken individually, each of your points are somewhat feasible/accurate, albeit less than rosy, but on the whole they flat out smell bad. By all means, please continue to post -- just come out from under your bridge first, okay? (If you are a Duke fan, though, I'll call myself a Devil.)

On another thread I have asked Cumae Sybl where he/she went to college.... just as Tappen Zee Devil asked on this thread. No answer yet. Just more talk.

[Kfanarmy]

On another thread I have asked Cumae Sybl where he/she went to college.... just as Tappen Zee Devil asked on this thread. No answer yet. Just more talk.

Regardless of the origins, let's hope cumae isn't as prophetic as the name implies.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Regardless of the origins, let's hope cumae isn't as prophetic as the name implies.

There have been a number of questions raised about this new poster because he/she has been so sharply critical despite being such a short term member of this board. Is the name a cover for a troll? Time will tell. Credibility seems to be a very fundamental issue.

I'm taking an optimistic view of the next basketball season for a variety of reasons.

[miramar]

As I recall, Mike Gminski skipped his senior year of high school, much to the dismay of the other schools recruiting him.

-jk

While dgoore97, the original poster, says he's kidding, the University of Miami football team regularly takes December graduates so that they can get acclimated to the university and participate in spring practice.

That's obviously different than having someone come in and play right away, but if some guys can start playing in the NBA five months after their HS graduation, then I suppose others can play college ball a few months ahead of time. Instead of the one and dones, perhaps this will give rise to the 1.5 and good byes.

And speaking of the G-Man, it seems that other schools didn't realize that he could graduate early, which made it easy for Duke to recruit him. Nowadays that would be posted on his info page on Rivals and Scout.com.

[JasonEvans]

On another thread I have asked Cumae Sybl where he/she went to college.... just as Tappen Zee Devil asked on this thread. No answer yet. Just more talk.

The moderators have determined that Cumae Sybl is a previously banned poster who tried to post under a new name. We have banned him permanently.

If there are others who have been banned but want to come back to the DBR, I would suggest that they contact the moderators and work with us to establish criteria by which their posting ability can be restored. Trying to go around us will only result in a quick re-banning.

--Jason "nuf said about this dude" Evans

[moonpie23]

i know this is absolutely CRAZY as all git-out (technical term), but, Ricky Rubio COULD possibly be a college player this year. If his camp doesn't like the deal from the wolves, he could decide to NOT play professionally this year and be RE-DRAFTED next year....

I bet coach K has his cell number....

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-5/Ricky-Rubio-s-Nuclear-Option.html

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

The moderators have determined that Cumae Sybl is a previously banned poster who tried to post under a new name. We have banned him permanently.

If there are others who have been banned but want to come back to the DBR, I would suggest that they contact the moderators and work with us to establish criteria by which their posting ability can be restored. Trying to go around us will only result in a quick re-banning.

--Jason "nuf said about this dude" Evans
Thank you, Jason.

[El_Diablo]

i know this is absolutely CRAZY as all git-out (technical term), but, Ricky Rubio COULD possibly be a college player this year. If his camp doesn't like the deal from the wolves, he could decide to NOT play professionally this year and be RE-DRAFTED next year....

I bet coach K has his cell number....

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-42-5/Ricky-Rubio-s-Nuclear-Option.html

Huh?

How can a person who has played professional basketball maintain NCAA eligibility as an amateur basketball player? Ignoring that, wouldn't he have to take the SAT or ACT? And/or graduate from high school? And travel back in time to prevent himself from hiring an agent?

edit: The article just says he can be a college student, not an NCAA basketball player. I can see how that can be misinterpreted though.

[moonpie23]

ahh.....correct-a-mundo...