Lebron Can't Win Without Shaq

[BlueintheFace]

or so says Danny Ferry...just kidding

The Big Cactus is headed to Cleveland. Danny Ferry has made his big move. This will likely be the move that makes or breaks his career as Cleveland's GM. Way to keep the Duke Basketball legacy strong Danny.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4285489

[CameronBornAndBred]

I'm sooooo looking forward to Shaq's diva attitude and how it plays in Cleveland. My guess is, not well. I think DF made a mistake here.

[SupaDave]

Nope - Shaq is at the point in his career where I don't think he'll mind being Robin. He gets to play with history this time around...

[Bob Green]

Shaq is over the hill and not the answer in Cleveland. I don't understand this move at all.

[FireOgilvie]

Shaq is over the hill and not the answer in Cleveland. I don't understand this move at all.

I was thinking that too at first. Then, I realized that they only lose Ben Wallace and Pavlovic. Shaq fills a huge need for Cleveland in the post... a huge body that can take up space, get easy points, and have a good shot at defending Dwight Howard.

[Greg_Newton]

I was thinking that too at first. Then, I realized that they only lose Ben Wallace and Pavlovic.

Yeah, wow. That's basically equivalent to giving up nothing. I wouldn't say it's the move to put them over the top, but given how important next year is for the Cavs, that's a steal.

I wonder if that is the only move Mr. Ferry will make this summer? I know folks were speculating he might make a play for Villanueva or Boozer, and I wouldn't think that Wallace or Pavlovic would have been breaking points in those negotiations. A package of Ilgauskas, Hickson, and their 1st round pick perhaps? Ilgauskas just seems like such an awful fit for a Lebron James-led team, and I could potentially see Utah going for that.

[ice-9]

It's an excellent trade. Shaq was a bit under the radar this past year but he did very well on the Suns with 18 points (shooting 61% from the field) and 8 rebounds per game. He even made the All-Star game.

Shaq is the kind of player that might have only a marginal impact over the season, but come playoff time his size can be a difference maker. The Cavs certainly could've used him against the Magic.

[BlueintheFace]

Guys, Shaq was arguably Phoenix's best player down the stretch last year. He is still a force.

[Maxwell1977]

Apparently they've got the money. Wallace is going to retire and they don't want Sasha. Shaq supposedly wants to play some more - he'll be a good soldier.

[dukeENG2003]

Not QUITE as one sided of a trade as the Gasol deal for the Lakers, but close. . .

You just know Shaq wants to get up one championship again on Kobe, he can't talk all the trash he does and have the same number of rings. . .

[whereinthehellami]

Not a big fan of Shaq. He has never impressed me as a hard worker. Gifted yes but not a hard worker. Lebron seems to have both qualities. I don't see this as a good marriage. Seems like they settled for plugging up the middle instead of trying to find the winning formula.

[SupaDave]

Not a big fan of Shaq. He has never impressed me as a hard worker. Gifted yes but not a hard worker. Lebron seems to have both qualities. I don't see this as a good marriage. Seems like they settled for plugging up the middle instead of trying to find the winning formula.

Have you ever seen this guy in person? YOU try keeping that body in shape. He's been in the NBA how long now? Size might get you there but it wont keep you there.

[CDu]

Shaq is definitely still a useful piece and will make Cleveland better assuming that last year wasn't his last hurrah. He's certainly not dominant anymore, but he can still be very effective down low. He moves Ilgauskas to the bench, and basically replaces him as the plodding big man on defense. He does provide better post offense than Ilgauskas by a long shot.

The problem Cleveland still has is that they're really slow up front. They have literally no versatility in their frontcourt. Against bigger, slower teams (or inferior teams) they can get away with it, but teams with more athletic PF (like Orlando, LA, etc) will still give them fits.

They could also use a bigger wing player to complement James.

Getting Shaq is a positive step, but he doesn't solve all the problems for Cleveland. As is, they're still putting an inordinate burden on LeBron to dominate.

[UrinalCake]

I was thinking that too at first. Then, I realized that they only lose Ben Wallace and Pavlovic.

They also give up a first round draft pick and some cash. I thought Shaq was pretty deferential to Wade when he won in Miami, and he knows he's no longer the primary option on any team. I like Shaq and hope he shows he still has something left in the tank.

Is anyone else baffled by the concept of "expiring contracts"? It's like you overpay a guy, then after a couple years he all of a sudden becomes really valuable because you can trade him to another team that just wants to dump his salary to clear out cap space. I wish someone would pay me to just sit around, waiting for my contract to expire 8-).

[Maxwell1977]

They also give up a first round draft pick and some cash.


Second round.

[theAlaskanBear]

I will go on record as saying this is a stupid move by Danny Ferry. Granted, they didnt give up much, but I do not see Shaq as a good fit.

Shaq can't play defense.
Shaq can't shoot jumpers.
Shaq can't hit foul shots.

Shaq clogs up the middle, impeding James from slashing/inside moves.
Shaq is only an average rebounder.

I thought the Cavs needed to go after young mobile big man who is athletic, and can extent jumpers to 10-15 feet like Ilguaskas.
If you dont have that jumper ability, then big men can help off on James when he drives to the hoop.

The only problem with Ilguaskas is that he cant defend mobile big guys. Shaq certainly doesnt improve that situation at all. He wont be a Howard stopper or anything like that, and Shaq doesnt bring any dynamism to a team that becomes stagnant offensively (partly due to personel, partly due to Brown's inept (completely, wholly, and totally inept) offense. Brown would make a great college coach, but he doesnt have the offensive mind for the NBA.

I think a much better move for the current Cleveland team would be to bring in a dynamic forward or two guard to open up the floor for James, like a Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter, Josh Howard, Richard Jefferson, or Corey Maggette type of player. A scorer so that teams can't just look at James and hit him with everything defensively. That also would increase the efficiency of the rest of the team, by spreading the floor and allowing for more cutting and offensive rebounding.

What do you guys think?

[Maxwell1977]

What do you guys think?

You couldn't be more wrong.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

At this point I mainly see Shaq as a lazy, overweight $20 million wrecking ball that keep crashing into teams with Duke connections and destroying them. I hope this isn't Danny's signature signing, because, IMO it's a pretty poor one, redeemed only by the very minimal cost (in every way except for financial).

[Maxwell1977]

At this point I mainly see Shaq as a lazy, overweight $20 million wrecking ball that keep crashing into teams with Duke connections and destroying them. I hope this isn't Danny's signature signing, because, IMO it's a pretty poor one, redeemed only by the very minimal cost (in every way except for financial).

I've read that Shaq was considered the 3rd best center in the NBA.

[Channing]

bear in mind that Shaq's problem recently has been injuries and staying on the court. Well, the Cavs were arguably the best team during the regular season and Lebron often sat the entire 4th quarter. If they can keep shaqs minutes way down so that he is fresh and energized come playoffs i think this move will pay off in spades.

[FireOgilvie]

I'm no Shaq fan at all, but all of the people calling him lazy, poor rebounder, poor at defense, etc. are way off, IMO. He's not in his prime, but he can still dominate for stretches of a game. He averaged 17.8 and 8.4 reb last year.

[JasonEvans]

I am shocked by the negative feelings about Shaq on this board. I think this is a great deal for Cleveland.

They gave up nothing of value and got one of the best post presences in the NBA in return. Think about how many assists Lebron is going to get taking the ball to the D and then just tossing it up for The Daddy to finish at the rim?!?! It is going to be unstoppable!

Shaq may not be a mobile defender, but is an in-the-paint space-eater and enforcer, something Cleveland certainly did not have with Ilgauskas.

What's more -- and here is something I bet very few of you have considered -- Shaq has a $20 million expiring contract at the end of next year. One of the things Cleveland needs to have to keep Lebron is enough money to sign another star to play alongside him in next year's fabulous free-agent class. Suddenly, the Cavs are going to have $20 million to spend on Chris Bosh or DWade or someone else to play next to Lebron (then they can re-sign Lebron, after getting the other star under contract). This gives them a ton of flexibility. What's more, if the Shaq pairing with Lebron is not going well, Cleveland will probably find plenty of takers for Shaq in a trade next year because everyone wants an expiring contract!

This is a fabulous deal, in my mind. I see no downside for Cleveland.

--Jason "oh yeah, all the reports are that Bron-bron is thrilled with the deal... and that is issue #1 in Cleveland" Evans

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

At this point Shaq is pretty much legendary for being unwilling to stay in anything close to game shape. Ask Lakers fans about his unwillingness to even have off-season surgery (http://www.fannation.com/blogs/post/127917) because he wanted to do his recovery during the season on the Lakers' dime and miss as many games as possible.

He'll get his numbers but there's no doubt that he just killed the fun and gun Suns (who were one really bad call from the Finals before he showed up). I don't think he helps a team and I'd be very wary of having his lazy mentality around a locker room. Lebron made a quantum leap by emulating Kobe's workout regime. Having Shaq as the "veteran presence" is a bad move even if (especially because) everyone will love him.

[Kfanarmy]

At this point Shaq is pretty much legendary for being unwilling to stay in anything close to game shape.

He'll get his numbers but there's no doubt that he just killed the fun and gun Suns (who were one really bad call from the Finals before he showed up). I don't think he helps a team and I'd be very wary of having his lazy mentality around a locker room. Lebron made a quantum leap by emulating Kobe's workout regime. Having Shaq as the "veteran presence" is a bad move even if (especially because) everyone will love him.

There is a considerable amount of revisionism at the Lakers. One can reasonable argue KB has one championship ring without Shaq, maybe zero without the buildup to his rep; I don't think you can say the same of O'Neal. There is a lot of anti-Shaq stuff there simply because he is the one that left.

Shaq was not a good fit for the Suns who were a highscoring, high-tempo team that had acquired personnel to do that. Along comes O'neal who is a power, position player. He simply didn't fit; disrupted the flow of the offense on a team that didn't play defense. The Cavs on the other hand don't mind playing solid defense, and taking their time to get a good shot. I agree with others that think this is a near perfect fit for the Cavs.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

There is a considerable amount of revisionism at the Lakers. One can reasonable argue KB has one championship ring without Shaq, maybe zero without the buildup to his rep; I don't think you can say the same of O'Neal. There is a lot of anti-Shaq stuff there simply because he is the one that left.

Shaq was not a good fit for the Suns who were a highscoring, high-tempo team that had acquired personnel to do that. Along comes O'neal who is a power, position player. He simply didn't fit; disrupted the flow of the offense on a team that didn't play defense. The Cavs on the other hand don't mind playing solid defense, and taking their time to get a good shot. I agree with others that think this is a near perfect fit for the Cavs.

I hope you're right about the fit, and getting a big name for so little in return (other than eating $20 mil in a bad economy) is probably worth it if it makes LeBron even a bit more inclined to stick around. I'd like to see Bron succeed and I'd really love to see Danny do well.

But Shaq's rep is not some recent propaganda put forward by spurned Laker fans. The Big Makes Ethnic Jokes About Asians has a very long-running and very well earned rep for being incredibly lazy. He's never stayed in shape, which is why he's breaking down so much. If Lebron can motivate him, great. If he gets into LeBron's head, not so much.

[Turk]

I'm with Jason - the trade is an absolute steal for Cleveland, and Shaq answers the Cav's most glaring weakness. Ziggy's strength is his nice outside shot, but Shaq is an improvement in every other way. One other thing people overlook about the Big Aristotle (I love that) is his passing out of the post. Cleveland gave up nothing of real value, and if they can upgrade Szczczczerbiak they will be overwhelming favorites to be the #1 team in the East and better than the Lakers, IMHO.

[cspan37421]

Shaqron, Ohio.

(credit to the locker room at danpatrick.com)

[Greg_Newton]

Cleveland gave up nothing of real value, and if they can upgrade Szczczczerbiak they will be overwhelming favorites to be the #1 team in the East and better than the Lakers, IMHO.

I don't know, if Orlando can resign Hedo they're basically looking at starting a team of 5 All-Stars. Jameer Nelson, Vince Carter, Hedo Turkoglu, Rashard Lewis, and Dwight Howard (not to mention Pietrus off the bench). That's pretty scary too.

[theAlaskanBear]

After seeing the Cleveland draft, I'm convinced there are more moves coming. Otherwise I see no reason they passed up on NBA ready players like Blair and Young who would have been steals at 30. I think Blair is undersized but he will still be a damn fine backup and potential starter if he stays healthy.

Picking Christian Eyenga is really a mystery to me. Sure they can leave him in Europe to play, but they could have easily gotten him in the second round, or made a cah considerations trade and picked uhim up from another team.

Cleveland is still weak at PF and the G positions, look for them to be a player in free agency if they have any exceptions or cap space left, or possibly more trades are coming.

[ice-9]

But Shaq's rep is not some recent propaganda put forward by spurned Laker fans. The Big Makes Ethnic Jokes About Asians has a very long-running and very well earned rep for being incredibly lazy. He's never stayed in shape, which is why he's breaking down so much. If Lebron can motivate him, great. If he gets into LeBron's head, not so much.


I think that's part of the plan. The Cavs didn't acquire Shaq to help them in the regular season -- they'll get a top 4 seed even if Shaq plays every other game -- they got Shaq for the playoffs.

As long as Shaq shows up for the playoffs, the Cavs will be a dangerous team.

[hq2]

Agree with last post. Anyone who saw Howard abuse Ilgauskas in the playoff will realize the Cavs can't get by the Magic without someone who can at least put a body on Howard. Also, against the Celtics, (assuming K.G. is healthy), Shaq will at least push Garnett further from the basket, and put pressure on him (and Kendrik Perkins) on the offensive end. Shaq needs to make a commitment to work on his endurance in the offseason so he won't wear out down the stretch. He might want to drop about 10-15 pounds too to give him a little more speed and endurance.

[COYS]

Cleveland is still weak at PF and the G positions, look for them to be a player in free agency if they have any exceptions or cap space left, or possibly more trades are coming.

I think you answered your question here. They need help at these positions right now. It is possible that Blair, Young or Budinger could come in and contribute right away, but the Cavs really need a player who can contribute on next year's team. Now, if they don't complete any other moves, I think some second guessing will be called for.

[allenmurray]

It's an excellent trade. Shaq was a bit under the radar this past year but he did very well on the Suns with 18 points (shooting 61% from the field) and 8 rebounds per game. He even made the All-Star game.

Shaq is the kind of player that might have only a marginal impact over the season, but come playoff time his size can be a difference maker. The Cavs certainly could've used him against the Magic.

Bingo. He can rest all season - he isn't needed until the playoffs. There he can make a difference.

[calltheobvious]

The 'Shaq is unfit and lazy' meme is complete nonsense. That the man can still contribute at all is an orthopedic miracle.

SupaDave said as much far upthread, but the point bears repeating and expanding. Human joints aren't designed to take the kind of stress that Shaq puts on himself with every step he walks, to say nothing of what happens to his knees and hips every time he runs or jumps.

I agree with Kenny Smith, who likes to say that there's a finite number of miles and jumps in every pair of legs. Shaq could arguably have been more fit at times during his career, but the work that it would have taken to get there is not without opportunity costs; i.e. if Shaq were the fitness freak that say, David Robinson was, his knees would likely be completely cooked by now rather than just 80% cooked.

[HK Dukie]

Many don't cheer for Shaq because he is the goliath. But he is a pretty good guy. I didn't like him early in his career but he has won me over.

The one concern I have for this trade is that Shaq, while still pretty good down low, is pretty slow and might clog the lane when Lebron drives. A faster post can get out of the way and potentially pull away a defender for half a step to make a bit easier for LeBron. That said, LeBron is good enough for it not to matter much but driving teams can use a faster post. For shooting teams the post just needs to clog space and get those Offensive rebounds.

That said, I do believe the trade is a positive because it will force teams to gameplan against more than one player.

[sagegrouse]

I've read that Shaq was considered the 3rd best center in the NBA.

IIRC Shaq was third team All-NBA this year. Funny thing is that the old guys with the Suns were the best players -- Shaq and Grant.

sagegrouse

[COYS]

Many don't cheer for Shaq because he is the goliath. But he is a pretty good guy. I didn't like him early in his career but he has won me over.

The one concern I have for this trade is that Shaq, while still pretty good down low, is pretty slow and might clog the lane when Lebron drives. A faster post can get out of the way and potentially pull away a defender for half a step to make a bit easier for LeBron. That said, LeBron is good enough for it not to matter much but driving teams can use a faster post. For shooting teams the post just needs to clog space and get those Offensive rebounds.

That said, I do believe the trade is a positive because it will force teams to gameplan against more than one player.

Considering that Shaq is going to play in bursts and is a solid passer out of the post who is used to playing with players who rely on driving lanes for a lot of their points (Kobe, D-Wade), I actually think his effect on driving lanes may prove to be less than anticipated. He also does a great job of sealing off the lane, so it may even prove beneficial in preventing help defense from sliding over to cut Lebron off. I actually really like this trade if only because they didn't give up anything of value for him. They still have time to make another move or two. While I would have wanted someone like Richard Jefferson to be a second scorer with size from the wing, this trade does improve the teams chances against Dwight Howard and the Magic, so I understand it. They still have time to make a move for a guard with a little size to run with Mo Williams on the Perimeter. We'll see if that actually materializes.

[devildownunder]

There is no downside here that I can see.

Shaq is a physical presence inside offensively and defensively. He can rest the entire regular season if he wants, playing only enough to get a feel for his new teammates. Cleveland needs him to show up for 16 wins in the postseason, that's it. The Cavs center rotation now includes Shaq and Z, that's awesome -- even at this advanced stage of Shaq's career. Imagine how this year's east conference finals would have been different had dwight howard had to contend with Shaq instead of just Z and company. Plus, all of Shaq's salary now comes off the cap after this season, leaving Cleveland tons of room to sign another star player to keep LeBron happy and in town after next season.

Some have suggested that Shaq will clog things up and hurt the Cavs offense. I don't see that happening. the showtime Lakers had no problems operating around an aging Kareem at the end of his career. He just got his rest trailing the others down the floor whenever they had a break and rotated out of the lane whenever other guys made their cuts to the basket.

I don't think this move guarantees a title for Cleveland but I think it makes them the favorite.

[devildownunder]

They still have time to make a move for a guard with a little size to run with Mo Williams on the Perimeter. We'll see if that actually materializes.

That would be checkmate on the rest of the league if it were somebody with legit pg skills.