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socaldukie
06-09-2009, 07:17 PM
What a quitter...

http://www.clarionledger.com/article/20090609/SPORTS/90609034/1287

burnspbesq
06-09-2009, 07:23 PM
One step ahead of a NCAA posse, methinks. USC football is too big to sanction, so the basketball program is going to get hammered.

Tappan Zee Devil
06-09-2009, 07:29 PM
What a quitter...


You want him to stay?

Hey - When you resign, you never say "I was caught being unethical and have no choice."

You say "I have lost my enthusiasm". or "I have family issues". or "I have health issues". or whatever

If they learn from it, this is good for USC and and certainly is not good for Floyd. It doesn't bail him out.

Jim

socaldukie
06-09-2009, 07:49 PM
I think his players leaving had as much of him running away as the scandals. Because you can bet if he had his starters back from last year there is no way he walks (of his own will). That's where I think he quit himself and the team. But, you're right how he suddenly loses the passion when he doesn't have the players and he can't state the obvious.

I guess it's not like the first time he's had controversery in one of his programs.:)

roywhite
06-09-2009, 07:57 PM
One step ahead of a NCAA posse, methinks. USC football is too big to sanction, so the basketball program is going to get hammered.

Wasn't the NCAA looking at both, and using the "lack of institutional control" term?

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/usc/la-sp-usc-silence31-2009may31,0,1313134.story

Doesn't sound like the University is in any hurry to get to the bottom of these problems.

SMO
06-09-2009, 08:00 PM
Was 1 year of OJ Mayo really worth it? The lack of long-term thinking in cases like these is amazing.

miramar
06-09-2009, 08:20 PM
"He reportedly turned down offers to coach at Arizona and Memphis following the 2008-09 season."

I don't know about Arizona since I think they only have graduation issues, but he would have fit in perfectly at Memphis.

BlueintheFace
06-09-2009, 08:54 PM
I believe they call this "pulling a Calipari"

Carlos
06-09-2009, 10:29 PM
Does he really think he is fooling anyone with the "lost my enthusiasm" routine? The big question for Floyd is where he goes from here. He bombed out as an NBA coach and I can't see any NCAA school touching him now.

SoCalDukeFan
06-09-2009, 10:58 PM
My guess is that Floyd will be an NBA assistant next year.

My wife is a USC alum and we follow their teams and have football season tickets.

I personally think he got as much out of his players as he could. I think he can coach. In my opinion though he never really had a "program." Players left early (some went undrafted) for example so every year was kind of a new deal.

Giving money to Mayo, if Floyd did, was just stupid.

In my opinion, next year USC basketball will be in the pits. Most of the team is gone. There may be NCAA sanctions. As always FOOTBALL will be king at USC and UCLA will be the king of Los Angeles college basketball. The administration as USC has done a great job of improving the academic reputation of the school. The USC alumni though absolutely worship the football team and many value football success over anything else at the school. A basketball arena was built recently and Floyd's job was to fill it and he did that pretty well. I think the administration just looked the other way and let Floyd recruit whomever and however he wanted to fill the arena. Any I think Pete Carroll gets a pretty free rein in football.

If the administration picks the right coach and give him time then there is no reason USC should not have competitive basketball teams composed mostly of student athletes. There is plenty of talent in LA. However there may be a few years with lots of empty seats in Galen.

SoCal

flyingdutchdevil
06-10-2009, 05:25 AM
Will this start a trend? Will the NCAA begin investigating other one-and-dones who don't want to be in college in the first place? Is Calipari next?

I really hope that the NCAA starts cracking down on things like this more. It ruins the process of recruiting, wastes time of hundreds of coaches who are playing by the rules, and helps to destroy the game.

We all know there are so many more out there, only they may be smarter than Floyd and haven't gotten caught (yet). That said, it's times like these that you really appreciate the clean, great programs: Duke, UCLA, *sigh* UNC, amongst others.

CameronBornAndBred
06-10-2009, 08:52 AM
I believe they call this "pulling a Calipari"
Calipari got out of town while he had his chance, before the allegations were made public. Floyd had his chance to do the same, and stayed. After the allegations about USC and Mayo became public, I think he pretty much knew he wouldn't be coaching at USC next year whether he wanted to or not, so he took the resignation route. It may have even been suggested by the athletic department that he consider it. I'm sure they would like to clean up their image sooner than later, and a year of Floyd coaching while the cloud of investigation hangs over the program is not the way to accomplish that mission.

DUBlue
06-10-2009, 07:50 PM
This just shows why the NCAA needs to do a better job of making whatever sanctions they place on programs also follow the Coaches to their next program!!!!

If USC gets sanctioned whatever the penalty they receive needs to be applied to the University that eventually hires Floyd (and you know he will be hired at one time or another).

Same can be said for the Calipari situation....

Wouldn't it be great to see who would hire these clowns if the new school they went to had to accept their previous penalties?

SoCalDukeFan
06-10-2009, 07:59 PM
This just shows why the NCAA needs to do a better job of making whatever sanctions they place on programs also follow the Coaches to their next program!!!!

If USC gets sanctioned whatever the penalty they receive needs to be applied to the University that eventually hires Floyd (and you know he will be hired at one time or another).

Same can be said for the Calipari situation....

Wouldn't it be great to see who would hire these clowns if the new school they went to had to accept their previous penalties?

While I agree with you and would love to see Kentucky penalized because of Calipari, Memphis and USC also should be held accountable.

University officials should not just look the other way when basketball recruits have unrealistic jumps in their SAT scores or when top flight recruits just magically appear on campus. For lots of reasons coaches want to win.
Look at Calipari's deal at UK. Those who have not ethics will cheat the system. The schools need to provide some oversight.

SoCal

JasonEvans
06-10-2009, 08:24 PM
"He reportedly turned down offers to coach at Arizona and Memphis following the 2008-09 season."

I don't know about Arizona since I think they only have graduation issues, but he would have fit in perfectly at Memphis.

I heard that the reason the Arizona deal fell apart was that Arizona had demanded some fairly stiff ethics clauses in the contract and Floyd was worried that if the scandal at USC got worse (and it has) he could easily have been fired by Zona before he coached a single game.

I doubt Tim Floyd coaches a major college program ever again. I agree that the NBA assistant route will likely be his next stop. If he goes back to college, it would be the small college route -- similar to Isiah and Doh with a long path back to the bigger schools.

--Jason "FWIW, I don't believe Floyd gave $1000 to some dude to secure Mayo... It was either a lot more or nothing at all" Evans

JasonEvans
06-10-2009, 08:40 PM
In light of some of the comments about USC football and basketball in this thread, I thought all of ya'll would enjoy this column from FoxSports (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9665990/Floyd-created-a-mess,-but-he-also-had-company)which contained the following lines:


Jerry Tarkanian, the all-time king of rogue coaches, once summed up the NCAA's hypocrisy by saying "The NCAA got so mad at Kentucky, they put Cleveland State on probation."

To that, we add a 21st-century update:

USC got so upset about its football scandal that it forced out its basketball coach.

Tim Floyd resigned under pressure this week — under the pressure of two NCAA scandals, and under the pressure of being the 13th-most important coach on campus — behind Pete Carroll and his 11 assistants.


--Jason "good stuff" Evans

Kewlswim
06-10-2009, 09:26 PM
Hi,

I don't think Tim Floyd paid some guy 1,000 dollars because as Jason says it is just too little. He would have had to pay some serious money or none at all. I partly blame David Stern for this ridiculous system we have for kids--who don't belong in college and not every kid does--to have to wait before they can play in in the NBA. Let's end this silliness now, let kids who are smart enough to know they don't belong in college and athletically talented enough to know they belong in the NBA a chance to just go! One and done, ick.

It is one thing for a kid who belongs in college to go there and a year into it realize he is such a great athlete that maybe the NBA would be a good idea, and quite another to keep a kid out by artificial means. I don't think one can put a price on what one learns in college. I think that if LeBron, for example, had played even one year for Coach K (or Ole Roy, or even Calipari, ick) he would have shaken each of the Magic's hands after losing to them because college would have given him more maturity. I think Kobe, had he of played for Coach K a couple of years, would have blossomed even more because he would have known what leadership was all about earlier in his NBA career. Furthermore, he might be better liked, yes even a Duke guy better liked. :-) Yet, I don't think either Kobe or LeBron should have been made to go to college. I like they had the choice to be wrong and not learn what they could have learned in school.

The point of my post is to thank David Stern for putting into place a system fraught with badness. I have no love for Tim Floyd. I do like SC better than UCLA, but that is really only because I liked Ronny Lott as a boy. I was more into football then.

GO DUKE!

JasonEvans
06-10-2009, 10:10 PM
Excellent post Kewlswim. I have often said, I think the basketball system should be like baseball--

If you want to go pro right out of high school, go for it. Perhaps the NBA will pay you, perhaps Europe will, perhaps you can find a spot in the Developmental League. Certainly, those options are no worse than the options for a minor league baseball player. Heck, I bet the Developmental League pays better than a single-A baseball team. With some small modifications, the NBA could even allow teams to protect a player or two on a Developmental League team to give them time to mature, somewhat similar to the process in baseball's minor league.

But, if you choose to go to a 4-year college, you must stick around for 3 years.

A system like that would create a great deal more stability and predictability on college rosters. The problem I have with the current system is that most times when a kid turns pro it is too late for his college coach to recruit a player to replace him. This uncertainty of future hurts programs and hurts players.

Sadly, the NBA and the NCAA seem dead set on continuing a system that is broken and begs for corruption.

-Jason "sigh... if I could run the NCAA for a day I would do more good than Myles Brand has done in his entire term" Evans

CameronBornAndBred
06-10-2009, 10:21 PM
I don't think Tim Floyd paid some guy 1,000 dollars because as Jason says it is just too little.
A thousand bucks for a kid who isn't allowed to have a job while he waits for his riches is not chump change. If you got nothing, more than nothing is something. And it's easier to pass a 1000 bucks than 5K or 10K.

jimsumner
06-10-2009, 10:26 PM
Jason,

You're comparing apples and oranges here. Professional baseball has had more than a century to refine a system that turns the best high-school baseball players into major-league baseball players over a period of time. Major league teams have player development agreements with a half-dozen or more minor league teams, designed to move players up a chain in a rational manner.

This week hundreds of high school students are being drafted by major league franchises. None of them are expected to play major league baseball for several years. Most will never play in the majors. But those that don't will have had a legit shot to play professional ball under a Darwinian system but a Darwinian system that is designed for teenagers and young adults and does a decent job of not destroying their lives.

Those high-schoolers who don't go to college will start out at the rookie level for the most part, maybe short-season A. But they'll be on a team with their peers and have a support system.

Contrast that with the NBA. High schoolers drafted in the old days were expected to play in the NBA right now. The developmental league is a poor substitute for baseball's minor leagues and lots of basketball players drafted out of high school just fell through the cracks. Europe? Do we really want to send lots of unprepared teenagers to Europe to play with 30-year-olds?


Also, MLB is immune from anti-trust legislation. The NBA is not. This stuff has to be part of a CBA between the NBA and the NBA Player's Association. It can't be just decreed, even by Myles Brand. The NCAA doesn't have much to say in this matter. In fact, it has no say.

Kewlswim
06-10-2009, 11:40 PM
A thousand bucks for a kid who isn't allowed to have a job while he waits for his riches is not chump change. If you got nothing, more than nothing is something. And it's easier to pass a 1000 bucks than 5K or 10K.

Hi,

I thought the allegation is that the 1,000 dollars was to a handler not even to O.J. Mayo. I admit I might be wrong.

GO DUKE!

SoCalDukeFan
06-11-2009, 12:48 AM
You wrote:

"Sadly, the NBA and the NCAA seem dead set on continuing a system that is broken and begs for corruption."

What can the NCAA do to change the system?

The NCAA can not require kids to stay in school. Even non athletes flunk out and quit school etc.

The only thing I can think of is to make freshman ineligible.

SoCal

CameronBornAndBred
06-11-2009, 12:48 AM
Hi,

I thought the allegation is that the 1,000 dollars was to a handler not even to O.J. Mayo. I admit I might be wrong.

GO DUKE!
I think you're right, but I can't see how if cash is being dealt it doesn't wind up in the player's hand. A pretty crooked deal all the way round. I wonder if NCAA athletes WERE allowed to profit from their athleticism how much of this would end, AND how it would affect the one and doners. My guess is they would still move on after year one. But maybe the next tier might stick around a bit longer. There are lots of sides to the argument, such as non money making sports, and how would it affect any team if some players got $ while others didn't, but knowing that cash is THE lure and the cause of corruption, it would be good to see the NCAA try to at least experiment with some other solutions.

jma4life
06-11-2009, 02:45 AM
I don't really like the three year system that much. It works well, but I'm not so sure that it's that much fairer. The main beneficiary would be the NCAA, and us as fans, but certainly not the players. Many many guys, would pull Morrison's (from Maryland) and lose lots of money by virtue of the fact that they could not go pro earlier.

I hate this example but there's some merit. Bill Gates wasn't forced to stay at Harvard for some amount of years before he could leave and start up Microsoft. I can't think of many companies that would refuse to hire someone for three years, if that person decided to go to college rather than work for that company straight out of high school.


Basically, I think disallowing players from leaving college after they commit is equally restrictive to not letting them go pro right out of high school. So if a league can decide that it will not draft players who go to college until they've completed three years, I think it is equally justified for the league to refuse to draft players at all straight out of high school.

Kewlswim
06-11-2009, 03:02 AM
Hi,

This would never happen, but I would like a system where every year every player who is a high school senior (at least 16 if graduating early) or college player can be drafted. However, if the kid does not want to go to that team or just into the NBA at all he can attend school (except for if he is a graduating senior, then he is stuck with that team just like now). So, if a kid is signed by Duke is drafted in the second round by Golden State, he can decide to attend Duke and GS losses his draft rights. After a kids freshman year, he is again thrown into the hopper if a team wants to draft him go right ahead, but if he wants to go back to school he can and the team loses the draft rights. I know that college teams would hate having to fear kids leaving each year, but how different is that than now? Furthermore, I like that the kids can come back after being drafted.

GO DUKE!

whereinthehellami
06-11-2009, 08:48 AM
I like how Floyd said that he hopes to talk with his players and coaches over the next couple of weeks to tell them how much they meant to him. Class Act!!

miramar
06-11-2009, 11:14 AM
but according to the LA Times, two of the assistants on the Lakers are interested in the USC job. I guess the position of captain of the Titanic has already been filled:

http://www.latimes.com/sports/college/basketball/la-sp-tim-floyd11-2009jun11,0,4338180.story

Carlos
06-11-2009, 11:33 AM
Hi,

I don't think Tim Floyd paid some guy 1,000 dollars because as Jason says it is just too little. He would have had to pay some serious money or none at all. I partly blame David Stern for this ridiculous system we have for kids--who don't belong in college and not every kid does--to have to wait before they can play in in the NBA. Let's end this silliness now, let kids who are smart enough to know they don't belong in college and athletically talented enough to know they belong in the NBA a chance to just go! One and done, ick.

It is one thing for a kid who belongs in college to go there and a year into it realize he is such a great athlete that maybe the NBA would be a good idea, and quite another to keep a kid out by artificial means. I don't think one can put a price on what one learns in college. I think that if LeBron, for example, had played even one year for Coach K (or Ole Roy, or even Calipari, ick) he would have shaken each of the Magic's hands after losing to them because college would have given him more maturity. I think Kobe, had he of played for Coach K a couple of years, would have blossomed even more because he would have known what leadership was all about earlier in his NBA career. Furthermore, he might be better liked, yes even a Duke guy better liked. :-) Yet, I don't think either Kobe or LeBron should have been made to go to college. I like they had the choice to be wrong and not learn what they could have learned in school.

The point of my post is to thank David Stern for putting into place a system fraught with badness. I have no love for Tim Floyd. I do like SC better than UCLA, but that is really only because I liked Ronny Lott as a boy. I was more into football then.

GO DUKE!

First, who is to say that the $1000 that Floyd was alleged to have paid to Mayo's handler was the only money that he paid him. More likely, it was the only money that this third party making the allegation was aware of.

As for the rest of your post, I agree with nearly everything. (Except for the part about how LeBron would have acted post playoff elimination had he played for Roy or Calipari. I think that if he had played for either of those two guys he would have not only refused to shake hands and blow off the press conference after the game, he would have probably yell some profanities at the crowd on the way out. He'd probably even kick a puppy outside the arena and run a bus driven by an aging nun transporting a group of orphans off the road.)

The problem is that David Stern has no vested interest in the part of the game that is being impacted by his age restriction decision. Does it impact the NBA if USC is placed on probation? Not at all. Nor does it matter if OJ Mayo is tainted with this scandal because what you lose in his marketability you gain with other guys who raised their profile with a one-year stint in college. Guys like Derrick Rose... OK, bad example. Guys like Michael Beasley, Greg Oden, or Kevin Durant.

So the NBA can keep their one-year rule or even push it to two years and all it does is make a bigger mockery out of the "student-athlete" image that everyone wants to believe. There's no downside at all for the NBA unless more HS players start going to Europe immediately rather than going to college. Even still, as long as those guys eventually come back to the NBA the league doesn't really lose out.

So, what I'm saying is that no matter how absurd the situation is, don't look for any changes soon.

SoCalDukeFan
06-11-2009, 02:29 PM
The allegations against Floyd are only allegations. Those making the allegations have about the same credibility as Ms. Mangum.

I would be surprised if Floyd gave one of Mayo's hangers on $1000. Maybe more, maybe nothing at all, but if money was involved it had to be more than $1000. Floyd had to smart enough not to personally give out money.

My observation is that too many of Floyd's players seem to have no real interest in USC the school.

SoCal

SoCalDukeFan
06-22-2009, 02:42 PM
Well DBR and others seem to hate the pick.
I read the Gregg Doyle (http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/11877087) article and it actually made me like the choice.

1. O'Neill runs an honest program. Great. Something USC certainly needs.

2. O'Neill is not liked and is compared to Bob Knight. That is fine with me.

3. O'Neill stresses defense. USC is not going to get top recruits for a while. So stressing defense is perfect.

I really do not know O'Neill's rep. Obviously he needs a job. Might actually work out.

SoCal