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Bostondevil
06-03-2009, 04:19 PM
There are a total of 3 Duke grad parents of player's on my son's Little League team, my husband, me, and one other dad. I was talking to the other Duke dad when UConn dad came up and started giving us some good natured ribbing. Truly, it wasn't bad and I didn't mind it. The only team I hate is UNC, now and forever. I told this guy I didn't like Jim Calhoun though and that I didn't think he ran a clean program. His repsonse was "What? And you think Duke does?" It's yet another problem folks have with us, that we think Duke runs a clean program. I've heard it many times over. The general feeling, at least the comments I've heard, are that Duke is as dirty as anywhere else, they just haven't gotten caught, yet.

I think Duke runs a clean program.

I've asked people if they honestly believe a laptop theft scandal or shady AAU coach dealing or kids cheating on their SATs is ever going to happen at Duke while Coach K is there. They all seem to think Duke just does a better job of covering their tracks.

It's the only point I'll ever give to Tarheel fans, they don't say it. I think UNC runs a clean program too. Yeah, I said it. I still hate UNC.

hc5duke
06-03-2009, 04:31 PM
There are a total of 3 Duke grad parents of player's on my son's Little League team, my husband, me, and one other dad. I was talking to the other Duke dad when UConn dad came up and started giving us some good natured ribbing. Truly, it wasn't bad and I didn't mind it. The only team I hate is UNC, now and forever. I told this guy I didn't like Jim Calhoun though and that I didn't think he ran a clean program. His repsonse was "What? And you think Duke does?" It's yet another problem folks have with us, that we think Duke runs a clean program. I've heard it many times over. The general feeling, at least the comments I've heard, are that Duke is as dirty as anywhere else, they just haven't gotten caught, yet.

I think Duke runs a clean program.

I've asked people if they honestly believe a laptop theft scandal or shady AAU coach dealing or kids cheating on their SATs is ever going to happen at Duke while Coach K is there. They all seem to think Duke just does a better job of covering their tracks.

It's the only point I'll ever give to Tarheel fans, they don't say it. I think UNC runs a clean program too. Yeah, I said it. I still hate UNC.

I've also heard this "Duke does a better job of covering things up," and I think it's just the only thing people can say when they're cornered (like the ucon grad with Calhoun).

What was worse in my latest encounter was, this guy (Cal grad, former coworker) actually thought Battier plays dirty. BATTIER!! And he's a Lakers fan and Kobe apologist! Granted this was right after Odom injured himself, but that made me question this guy's mental health.

sagegrouse
06-03-2009, 04:40 PM
There are a total of 3 Duke grad parents of player's on my son's Little League team, my husband, me, and one other dad. I was talking to the other Duke dad when UConn dad came up and started giving us some good natured ribbing. Truly, it wasn't bad and I didn't mind it. The only team I hate is UNC, now and forever. I told this guy I didn't like Jim Calhoun though and that I didn't think he ran a clean program. His repsonse was "What? And you think Duke does?" It's yet another problem folks have with us, that we think Duke runs a clean program. I've heard it many times over. The general feeling, at least the comments I've heard, are that Duke is as dirty as anywhere else, they just haven't gotten caught, yet.

I think Duke runs a clean program.

I've asked people if they honestly believe a laptop theft scandal or shady AAU coach dealing or kids cheating on their SATs is ever going to happen at Duke while Coach K is there. They all seem to think Duke just does a better job of covering their tracks.

It's the only point I'll ever give to Tarheel fans, they don't say it. I think UNC runs a clean program too. Yeah, I said it. I still hate UNC.

Sounds like some of that charming Boston personality! I found huge quantities of it in Florida (where else?) during the 1999 Final Four.

sagegrouse

oldnavy
06-03-2009, 05:23 PM
someone throws the "you cheat" card out with nothing to back it up. The bottom line is that you don't have to cheat to be successful. Cheating is a short cut, and I would bet the farm, that K has never taken a short cut to success, nor would he tolerate anyone on his staff or team that would.

TheRose77
06-03-2009, 06:31 PM
Your problem, Bostondevil, is that you engaged in conversation with a UConn fan. I have never met one who is not irrational when talking about Duke, and I've lived in Connecticut for 31 years so I know a little about it. They still can't get over Christian Laettner and the double pump from the sideline oh so many years ago. Discuss basketball with a UConn fan and all you get back is alot of hot air. Anything one says anymore is in one ear and out the other.
Besides, we don't cheat and our coach is nicer.

SilkyJ
06-03-2009, 06:51 PM
Coach K went to West Point, played for Bob Knight, and is a retired Army Captain. His pedigree really screams cheater.

hc5duke
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
Coach K went to West Point, played for Bob Knight, and is a retired Army Captain. His pedigree really screams cheater.

no kidding. i mean, the guy got a hip replacement for crying out loud. having an android for a coach is clearly cheating

El_Diablo
06-03-2009, 10:44 PM
no kidding. i mean, the guy got a hip replacement for crying out loud. having an android for a coach is clearly cheating

Cyborg, technically...

Capn Poptart
06-03-2009, 11:54 PM
If you say, "Duke just hasn't gotten caught yet," then there's no way for Duke to win that argument. The UConn guy isn't fighting fair. There's no way for Duke to prove that something isn't going on. Proving something happened is easier: "Player X accepted money. Here's a cell-phone photo of Joe Booster handing it to him, and here's a statement from the kid admitting he took it."

There was no way for Iraq to prove it didn't possess weapons of mass destruction. There's no way for the U.S. government to prove it's not training 200-foot-high chipmunks somewhere to act as nuclear payload delivery devices. It can be doubted, but can't be disproven.

Duke can say that the vast majority of its players graduate, that almost no recruiting improprieties have ever been discovered in any sport and that the programs are widely respected as models of NCAA compliance. But it cannot prove a negative.

DukieInKansas
06-04-2009, 12:00 AM
If you say, "Duke just hasn't gotten caught yet," then there's no way for Duke to win that argument. The UConn guy isn't fighting fair. There's no way for Duke to prove that something isn't going on. Proving something happened is easier: "Player X accepted money. Here's a cell-phone photo of Joe Booster handing it to him, and here's a statement from the kid admitting he took it."

There was no way for Iraq to prove it didn't possess weapons of mass destruction. There's no way for the U.S. government to prove it's not training 200-foot-high chipmunks somewhere to act as nuclear payload delivery devices. It can be doubted, but can't be disproven.

Duke can say that the vast majority of its players graduate, that almost no recruiting improprieties have ever been discovered in any sport and that the programs are widely respected as models of NCAA compliance. But it cannot prove a negative.

Those chipmunks were supposed to be a secret. You know what has to happen now, don't you?

Some people just don't want to believe that certain programs can be clean and successful. As much as I can't stand unc & Dean Smith & Roy (aka Deputy Dawg or Huckleberry Hound), they do run a clean program and you have to admire that.

-bdbd
06-04-2009, 12:22 AM
It's just simply a silly accusation, almost always from someone with an indefensible position... Call it the debater's "Hail Mary." You can't defend your own teams improprieties/coaches/boosters/Administration, so you essentially throw out noise to distract. THEY ARE AVOIDING THE ISSUE AT HAND -- THEIR TEAM CHEATS (or at least did cheat), and was caight. I remember hearing the same BS from UK fans after a certain overnight package broke open in LA with wads of cash to a recruit -- "everyone does it." They're just avoiding the obvious, ugly truth about their own program.

Personally, I come back pretty aggressively at someone who throws out that kind of garbage. I call it for what it is -- disingenuous or worse. Unless one really does believe that EVERYONE actually cheats like that (I actually ask the UK fans if they truly believe that all College Coaches' offices are mailing out hundreds of dollars to recruits, or that all teams have kids who are stealing stereos (NCSU early 80's) or laptops (UCONN - recent) and then pawning them (and then not seriously punshing the perpetrator/player once he's caught), or have several players hanging out and partying with known bookies (UNLV - circa 1990), or getting systemic cash payouts repeatedly over time (Mich - early 90's) or the current UCONN mess of systemic and recurring recruiting violations. Usually you get a shuffling of the feet in response about then...

I turn around the "unprovable negagtive" on them -- "Duke just hasn't been caught, huh, then prove it. What EVIDENCE or smoke/indicators do you have to even hint that Duke (or any other program with integrity) does it the same way as your shady one does. B/C I have a PILE of proof that school X cheats" (be it UCONN, or KY or whoever).

I once had a good friend, who happened to be a UNC fan, make that sort of a statement after it came out (this is 20 years ago) that UNC had cut a minor corner on some recruit -- hiring a recruit's parent or some such. My response was simply, "then you really don't understand Duke." Honestly, I'd MUCH rather lose that 5-star recruit than even RISK tarnishing our 24-carrot rep. Just isn't worth it. And I just can't imagine K ever allowing ANY of it.

BTW, please try not to come off all high-and-mighty when confronting this argument. We can be firm, w/o being derisive.

-BDBD :D

P.S. Anybody think Memphis fans will show at least some embarassment or chagrin over the current revelations??

DukeDevilDeb
06-04-2009, 01:02 AM
There are a total of 3 Duke grad parents of player's on my son's Little League team, my husband, me, and one other dad. I was talking to the other Duke dad when UConn dad came up and started giving us some good natured ribbing. Truly, it wasn't bad and I didn't mind it. The only team I hate is UNC, now and forever. I told this guy I didn't like Jim Calhoun though and that I didn't think he ran a clean program. His repsonse was "What? And you think Duke does?" It's yet another problem folks have with us, that we think Duke runs a clean program. I've heard it many times over. The general feeling, at least the comments I've heard, are that Duke is as dirty as anywhere else, they just haven't gotten caught, yet.

I think Duke runs a clean program.

I've asked people if they honestly believe a laptop theft scandal or shady AAU coach dealing or kids cheating on their SATs is ever going to happen at Duke while Coach K is there. They all seem to think Duke just does a better job of covering their tracks.

It's the only point I'll ever give to Tarheel fans, they don't say it. I think UNC runs a clean program too. Yeah, I said it. I still hate UNC.

I've been teaching at Duke for 20+ years. My first student basketball player was Chris Collins; the ones last year were Kyle, Nolan, Olek, and Marty. I've taught two of Coach K's 3 daughters and several members of the staff.

This is a clean program. Period. We know that and, deep down, so do the UConns and the Memphises, the Calipari's and the Williams. We haven't been at the top every single year because we don't fake SAT scores or threaten faculty to pass students or do any of the things that other schools do. We don't "pay" recruits in any way, not with promised playing time or anything else... which may be why we haven't won some of the recruiting battles of late. Our basketball players (men and women both) have to be able to walk and chew gum and read and think and provide community service and study and... oh, yeah, play basketball.

I don't consider myself an apologist for Duke basketball. There are some things about the program I would change. If I had my druthers, Coach K wouldn't be coaching Team USA next year. I would like a point guard sometime soon. And I wish Christian Laettner had just one or two more years of eligibility! :p

It is virtually impossible to prove a negative or to prove the absence of anything. We should rejoice in the fact that we don't have players who aren't students and we don't provide extras to family members or friends or anyone else.

I love when we win. But even when we don't, I am extremely proud of our teams and the Duke name. And I don't think there is another program in the country that has done as well for the last 20+ years and is as clean. People would have loved to have the lacrosse accusations be true, but I've taught lacrosse players as well, and they aren't dirty either. This is a great opportunity to stand behind the Duke name and the Duke teams, the Duke players and the Duke coaches...

Go Devils!

gep
06-04-2009, 01:03 AM
I turn around the "unprovable negagtive" on them -- "Duke just hasn't been caught, huh, then prove it. What EVIDENCE or smoke/indicators do you have to even hint that Duke (or any other program with integrity) does it the same way as your shady one does. B/C I have a PILE of proof that school X cheats" (be it UCONN, or KY or whoever).


A comment... we Duke fans cannot prove that there wasn't a "negative" either. Like another poster said above, you cannot prove a negative. But, I think, with the internet / communication options today, if there *was* anything "negative", it would somehow get out... and since there's nothing out there, that anyone knows of, the conclusion has gotta be that there isn't anything.

I think it's kinda like Einstein's theory of relativity. Even if you don't like it, or don't believe it, if you can't disprove it, you gotta accept it. (my 2 cents):)

Scorp4me
06-04-2009, 01:05 AM
Just wanted to make a minor distinction. Schools/Coaches can get caught up in dirty business and Schools/Coaches can enact dirty business. Someone like Cal starts bad business, but even someone like K can get caught off guard, take Magette for example. Some misdealings before he even came to Duke. There's a difference and it should be noted.

Bostondevil
06-04-2009, 01:10 AM
It's not so much that they think Duke is cheating but, well, the comment I hear is always a version of "Oh you Dukies are all alike, you think these things don't go on at Duke." I usually respond with "Damn straight they don't." That gets me either an exaperated sigh, a mention of Shelden Williams, or the 'I hate Duke' stare.

weezie
06-04-2009, 09:05 AM
BTW, please try not to come off all high-and-mighty when confronting this argument. We can be firm, w/o being derisive.



Geez, way to take all the fun out of dealing with Uconn/UK sluggos.

bass-piscator
06-04-2009, 09:25 AM
DukeDevilDeb,

one of the best posts I have read in a long time. Thank you.

roywhite
06-04-2009, 09:59 AM
DukeDevilDeb,

one of the best posts I have read in a long time. Thank you.

I agree, and very nice to hear from an active member of the faculty.

By the way, there's a good piece by Coach K in the new edition of the Duke Alumni Magazine, which celebrates the 25th anniversary of that publication. He, along with many other prominent Duke people, gives his take on where Duke is now and what the future might hold. Lots of emphasis on the values he, and we, hold dear.

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-04-2009, 10:04 AM
I agree, and very nice to hear from an active member of the faculty.

By the way, there's a good piece by Coach K in the new edition of the Duke Alumni Magazine, which celebrates the 25th anniversary of that publication. He, along with many other prominent Duke people, gives his take on where Duke is now and what the future might hold. Lots of emphasis on the values he, and we, hold dear.

I'll bet you noticed that Lefty Driesell was recognized for his accomplishments in two different places in that same magazine. Interesting contrast to some recent discussions, isn't it?

kong123
06-04-2009, 10:05 AM
From what I heard, the reason Ol' Roy was hated by John Wall's agent was because Ol' Roy told him to get out of his gym once during a practice. Roy told him he recruited players through their families, not their agents. Is the completely accurate? I don't know for sure, but it is admirable when coaches do things the right way. Brian Clifton, an AAU coach, is going to represent Wall in the draft next year as his agent. Did K ever formally offer Wall a scholarship?

Devil in the Blue Dress
06-04-2009, 10:08 AM
I've been teaching at Duke for 20+ years. My first student basketball player was Chris Collins; the ones last year were Kyle, Nolan, Olek, and Marty. I've taught two of Coach K's 3 daughters and several members of the staff.

This is a clean program. Period. We know that and, deep down, so do the UConns and the Memphises, the Calipari's and the Williams. We haven't been at the top every single year because we don't fake SAT scores or threaten faculty to pass students or do any of the things that other schools do. We don't "pay" recruits in any way, not with promised playing time or anything else... which may be why we haven't won some of the recruiting battles of late. Our basketball players (men and women both) have to be able to walk and chew gum and read and think and provide community service and study and... oh, yeah, play basketball.

I don't consider myself an apologist for Duke basketball. There are some things about the program I would change. If I had my druthers, Coach K wouldn't be coaching Team USA next year. I would like a point guard sometime soon. And I wish Christian Laettner had just one or two more years of eligibility! :p

It is virtually impossible to prove a negative or to prove the absence of anything. We should rejoice in the fact that we don't have players who aren't students and we don't provide extras to family members or friends or anyone else.

I love when we win. But even when we don't, I am extremely proud of our teams and the Duke name. And I don't think there is another program in the country that has done as well for the last 20+ years and is as clean. People would have loved to have the lacrosse accusations be true, but I've taught lacrosse players as well, and they aren't dirty either. This is a great opportunity to stand behind the Duke name and the Duke teams, the Duke players and the Duke coaches...

Go Devils!
Your willingness to participate in the conversations and discussions on this board certainly adds the perspective of someone who has firsthand knowledge of the programs and people at Duke. This post makes a clear statement regarding the ethics associated with athletics on the Duke campus. Thank you, Deb!

MulletMan
06-04-2009, 10:31 AM
We don't "pay" recruits in any way, not with promised playing time or anything else... which may be why we haven't won some of the recruiting battles of late.

Ding ding ding ding ding! We have a winner!

Stray Gator
06-04-2009, 01:02 PM
For those opposing fans and assorted haters who whine that "Duke is cheating, too, but just hides it more effectively and doesn't get caught," here's something to consider: No college basketball program in the country receives more intense, incessant public scrutiny than Duke; no college basketball program in the country is the object of more scorn and hostility than Duke; and no college basketball program in the country is the subject of more attempts by media types to attract attention by writing, or commenting on the air, about perceived or imagined flaws than Duke. So, is it really credible to suggest that a program that operates in the glaring light of such constant scrutiny could successfully conceal all evidence of wrongdoing?

Bostondevil
06-04-2009, 01:05 PM
For those opposing fans and assorted haters who whine that "Duke is cheating, too, but just hides it more effectively and doesn't get caught," here's something to consider: No college basketball program in the country receives more intense, incessant public scrutiny than Duke; no college basketball program in the country is the object of more scorn and hostility than Duke; and no college basketball program in the country is the subject of more attempts by media types to attract attention by writing, or commenting on the air, about perceived or imagined flaws than Duke. So, is it really credible to suggest that a program that operates in the glaring light of such constant scrutiny could successfully conceal all evidence of wrongdoing?

Great point. I'll definitely be using that one.

(Makes me think of Lance Armstrong too, it's why I don't think he was a cheater.)

DukieInKansas
06-04-2009, 01:33 PM
Great point. I'll definitely be using that one.

(Makes me think of Lance Armstrong too, it's why I don't think he was a cheater.)

It made me think of Lance also - and, much like Duke, there are some people you will never convince that Lance hasn't taken PEDs. I've taken to laughing when I hear or read the comments that either Duke or Lance cheats. Until someone provides proof, I will continue to laugh at them - usually not to their faces.

sagegrouse
06-04-2009, 03:05 PM
For those opposing fans and assorted haters who whine that "Duke is cheating, too, but just hides it more effectively and doesn't get caught," here's something to consider: No college basketball program in the country receives more intense, incessant public scrutiny than Duke; no college basketball program in the country is the object of more scorn and hostility than Duke; and no college basketball program in the country is the subject of more attempts by media types to attract attention by writing, or commenting on the air, about perceived or imagined flaws than Duke. So, is it really credible to suggest that a program that operates in the glaring light of such constant scrutiny could successfully conceal all evidence of wrongdoing?

There is another point that can be made. Compliance with a complex rulebook is not merely the outcome of good intentions; it is the result of hard work and good management. K is nothing if not an excellent leader and executive. His continued employment and his legacy depends on Duke obeying the NCAA rules, and he has emphasized this on more than one occasion. As a consequence, it appears that Duke and K have set up an internal management system to check and double-check compliance. It also means frequent consultations with the NCAA and timely action and reporting of any problems, minor or major. This is one reason that Duke was not penalized in the Maggette episode ten years ago.

IMHO (with the Grouse the "H" is often silent), this attention to detail and institution of procedures don't happen in most organizations, and they don't happen at all without a lot of effort and foresight. On top of the right ethics and values, K has run his program in the right way.

I, for one, believe that many of the violations are sloppiness rather than willful wrongdoing -- either in the chain of command, in poor communications within the program, or inattention to detail.

sagegrouse

roywhite
06-04-2009, 03:32 PM
I, for one, believe that many of the violations are sloppiness rather than willful wrongdoing -- either in the chain of command, in poor communications within the program, or inattention to detail.

sagegrouse

Perhaps; I put the compliance efforts in three categories---clean, dirty, and sloppy. Some in the "dirty" category try very hard not be sloppy, so attention is not called to them.

I agree with your assessment of Coach K's skills and efforts in the compliance area, and appreciate the high value he places on ethics.

SeriousDave
06-04-2009, 03:33 PM
I hear you Grouse, but the Maggette incident still gave me pause. He was arguably ineligible to play for the 1998-99 team that lost to UConn in the title game. However, the NCAA never ruled that Maggette was ineligible, as far as I know, I'm not sure why he wasn't, and we were never asked to pay back any monies from that NCAA tournament or vacate the season. We said, hey, we didn't know about it (echoes of Memphis with the Rose SAT), and fully cooperated, etc., and I think it is a bit unfair to punish the school IF the wrongdoing didn't occur on the school's watch or should not have been reasonably known to the school before the player commits or enrolls. Perhaps the NCAA saw it that way and didn't take as tough a stance as it could have. I'm sure our history and reputation helped but why Maggette wasn't ruled ineligible is still unclear to me. Perhaps, he was gone to the NBA, so it wasn't deemed relevant. But the game is sufficiently dirty and even clean programs will have their Maggette type incidents. Of course, this is very different than pseudo agent boosters acting on behalf of a school, with regular contact with a coaching staff, as in the case of UConn and Josh Nochimson.

But I do like the microscope argument that if we were ever up to no good, in any way, at any time, someone with an agenda would dig it up and plaster it all over.

kong123
06-04-2009, 03:43 PM
For those opposing fans and assorted haters who whine that "Duke is cheating, too, but just hides it more effectively and doesn't get caught," here's something to consider: No college basketball program in the country receives more intense, incessant public scrutiny than Duke; no college basketball program in the country is the object of more scorn and hostility than Duke; and no college basketball program in the country is the subject of more attempts by media types to attract attention by writing, or commenting on the air, about perceived or imagined flaws than Duke. So, is it really credible to suggest that a program that operates in the glaring light of such constant scrutiny could successfully conceal all evidence of wrongdoing?

I don't feel that Duke has ever been under scrutiny for the way K has run the program. The public turned against Duke after years of success. That success along with our squeaky clean image and private school credentials turned the average fan against us. I still feel that the press looks favorably upon us. We have not had the success recently that brought us so much attention and so perhaps its absence feels like neglect or negativity?

Finally, people who claim that a school like Duke or UNC cheat to obtain great players are usually just trying to get under your skin. There has been no evidence to support these accusations, they just use whatever information they can find to accomplish this, and in some cases this means creating something from thin air.

RazzyBailey31
06-04-2009, 04:00 PM
Being in law enforcement, that is always the first excuse a criminal gives. Everyone was doing it. Such and such was doing it too. The facts are Duke runs a tight ship. That in addition to decades and decades of elite level winning, championships, Final Fours, and legendary players has alot of folks feeling envious.

Kewlswim
06-11-2009, 02:47 AM
I don't feel that Duke has ever been under scrutiny for the way K has run the program. The public turned against Duke after years of success. That success along with our squeaky clean image and private school credentials turned the average fan against us. I still feel that the press looks favorably upon us. We have not had the success recently that brought us so much attention and so perhaps its absence feels like neglect or negativity?

Finally, people who claim that a school like Duke or UNC cheat to obtain great players are usually just trying to get under your skin. There has been no evidence to support these accusations, they just use whatever information they can find to accomplish this, and in some cases this means creating something from thin air.

Hi,

Except for actual Duke fans I didn't meet a single person who liked Duke. Being back home I met a friend, from Boston, who told me his favorite game of the entire tournament was watching Duke get blown out by Villanova. So, I ask, what is it about Boston folks? Why do they hate us so? Is UCONN so close to Boston? While in school, friends at Harvard just despised Duke. I didn't think much of it then, but now after going to Boston I realized maybe there is something there. Maybe it is an East Coast thing where those people just don't like teams from the South?

This might not be the right place for this post, but didn't want to start a new thread for it.

Thanks,

GO DUKE

eightyearoldsdude
06-11-2009, 11:21 AM
FWIW, I used to teach at UNC, and gave a *star* in a major sport an F. Never heard a peep from the athletic department. I think both UNC and Duke run clean programs. Neither are perfect--in an organization that big, with so many moving parts (boosters, players, athletic department, parents, old friends, AAU coaches), it's impossible to achieve perfection. I think one difference is that both schools aim to keep in the spirit, not just the letter, of the recruiting rules. It's a less-heralded but important aspect of what makes our rivalry great.

sandinmyshoes
06-11-2009, 11:32 AM
I'm not sure that telling a fan that you think their program is dirty is going to help ease the Duke hate. They're going to hate us for winning. They're going to hate us even more if we rub their noses in the fact that we do it the right way. I always cringe when our fans go into that mode.

weezie
06-11-2009, 02:17 PM
Duke hate is nothing more than petty jealousy, plain and simple.

Ima Facultiwyfe
06-11-2009, 04:02 PM
to having told a white lie or two in my lifetime....just to make situations go more smoothly as long as it didn't hurt anybody. At the same time, I've been married to a curmudgeon who is the epitome of truth and has been on the faculty forEVER . Sometimes it drives me nuts, the old prof is so painfully honest. But, I remember asking him one time while he was serving on the academic council, "Are we a clean program?" He responded without hesitation, "We squeak." That's good enough for me.

Bless all our hearts. Love, Ima

JG Nothing
06-11-2009, 04:37 PM
1. A lot of people may hate Duke, but a lot also love Duke.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/pubs/Harris_Poll_2009_03_26.pdf
2. There are many good coaches that run relatively clean programs, so let's not forget that other schools also try to do things the right way.
3. I say "relatively clean" because there are so many questionable people associated with the AAU, high school basketball mills, and player entourages. I can't image any program not getting a little dirt on itself simply because there is so much dirt in the recruiting game.

Greg_Newton
06-11-2009, 05:51 PM
1. A lot of people may hate Duke, but a lot also love Duke.
http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/pubs/Harris_Poll_2009_03_26.pdf


It also appears Duke fans are the least bandwagonish of the popular programs. While UNC and UK dropped to the 7th and 9th most popular programs (respectively) during their down years, Duke's lowest point was 3rd in 1997. Nice.

JimBD
06-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Just wanted to add my thanks too.
DukeDevilDeb,

one of the best posts I have read in a long time. Thank you.

johnb
06-12-2009, 01:40 PM
From all I've read, the coaching staff and administration do things the right way.

There are, however, lots of rules, and so, for example, Collins got caught just last year seeing a recruit outside of the regulation period.

I think we (using 'we' to include a booster) may have shaded the situation a bit with the hiring of Duhon's mother, who, as I recall, got a pretty cush job in Durham after having previously worked at a preschool in Louisiana. That was investigated and found to be ok, but it's not like she would have gotten that job if she'd been, say, my mom.

But more importantly, I think we risk trouble by emphasizing that we're fundamentally different from all other programs. Most are generally clean, some cheat when they feel they can get away with it (see, for ex, SEC football), but ALL universities run risks when they base their reputations on dozens of 20 year old men, any one of whom can have a bad night, and on the progress of students who are at special academic risk (some because of less academic prep; all because of time constraints)

SupaDave
06-12-2009, 01:53 PM
I'm not sure that telling a fan that you think their program is dirty is going to help ease the Duke hate. They're going to hate us for winning. They're going to hate us even more if we rub their noses in the fact that we do it the right way. I always cringe when our fans go into that mode.

Somewhat valid point there but trust me usually other folks start it. However, a program like UCONN is fair game for a number of reasons including success over the years as well as violations.