Oglesby done at Clemson - playing in Europe

[Bluedog]

http://clemson.scout.com/2/867680.html
http://www.thestate.com/breaking/story/802185.html
http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9615700/Clemson%27s-Oglesby-to-play-in-Europe

Terrence Oglesby is forgoing his two remaining years at Clemson, and heading to Italy on Saturday to begin negotiations with Italian and Spanish teams. Interesting move...I haven't heard of any other players leaving college early to play professionally abroad, although there may be a few escaping me. Perhaps it will be a more common occurrence in the future. Oglesby was a frustrating player to watch - had some amazing shots at times, and made such stupid plays others times, which was exemplified by his idiocy against Michigan in the NCAA tournament this year. Apparently, he has a Norwegian passport so he doesn't count towards the American limit for teams.


“There’s nothing really against Clemson,” Tony [Terrence's father] said. “It’s just an opportunity he didn’t want to turn down. He wants the chance to (play) six hours a day, get better and work toward eventually making the NBA [...] I’m sure there will be people who think this is about the money, but it’s not about money. He wants to play professional basketball, and this was an outstanding opportunity.”

Mods - feel free to merge this to the appropriate thread, but I couldn't find one. 2009 NBA Draft, NBA Draft early entries....none seemed to truly apply.

[roywhite]

Hmmm...interesting...an unusual move for sure.

I wonder if Oliver Purnell lost patience with him, and encouraged him to look elsewhere.

[bradjenk]

This is stunning. I had Clemson as a real ACC title contender next year but this is a real blow. Suddenly without Oglesby and Rivers (graduated) they will be suspect in perimeter shooting for sure.

[mcdukie]

I too had Clemson in the mix as a contender in the ACC but this move changes my thoughts. You have to wonder if he was nudged out the door.

[FireOgilvie]

Interesting move...I haven't heard of any other players leaving college early to play professionally abroad, although there may be a few escaping me.

Nick Calathes is going to Greece.

[geraldsneighbor]

If I was a Clemson fan I would be thrilled. Watching him play was like banging you head against a wall. He shot the ball from anywhere inside the Arena. His dad can't honestly think he will one day be an NBA caliber player. He just shoots a lot of 3s and some go in.

[houstondukie]

Just my opinion, but I don't think this has anything to do with Purnell and Oglesby's relationship. As someone else already mentioned, Nick Calathes is leaving Florida to play in Greece. I think it has more to do with the advantages of playing in Europe vs. college. And if you stop and think about it, it's not a bad move. Tax-free 6-7 figure salaries (in Euros), in addition to a fully-furbished home, possibly a car, plus the lifestyle of living in Europe is hard to pass up (I love traveling to Europe so maybe I'm biased).

I don't know about you guys, but I fear this is going to become more popular and could really hurt the college game.

[COYS]

I don't know about you guys, but I fear this is going to become more popular and could really hurt the college game.

I agree that this could become a more common trend that will weaken the college game, but I think it's great for basketball. The more competitive the Euroleagues become and the more players they can attract from around the world, the more developed a game basketball will become. As others have noted on the thread regarded Calathes' move from Florida to Greece, American basketball and football are basically the only two sports that use collegiate athletics as their primary method of player development. College helps some major league teams, but the majority of MLB players are either drafted out of high school or are signed from other countries and immediately put in the minor league system. With the exception of the MLS draft in the United States, any soccer player who will amount to anything is already signed up in some sort of professional youth academy for a professional soccer team by age 16 or, in many cases, much earlier.

If this does become a bigger trend, which I think it will although I think it will happen very slowly and gradually, I think the benefit is that basketball will become a game played at a much higher level. More people from all over the world will play it and more people will have better training in the game. Top Euro teams will slowly but surely be able to secure more NBA caliber talent, even if they never reach the level of most NBA teams. Some players will opt to go pro in Europe immediately and skip college while others may decide to leave school early and take the guaranteed money in Europe instead of finishing out college. Either way, the overall talent level in college will take a bit of a hit although I don't think it will be enough to drastically change the popularity or importance of college basketball.

[A-Tex Devil]

I agree that this could become a more common trend that will weaken the college game, but I think it's great for basketball. The more competitive the Euroleagues become and the more players they can attract from around the world, the more developed a game basketball will become. As others have noted on the thread regarded Calathes' move from Florida to Greece, American basketball and football are basically the only two sports that use collegiate athletics as their primary method of player development. College helps some major league teams, but the majority of MLB players are either drafted out of high school or are signed from other countries and immediately put in the minor league system. With the exception of the MLS draft in the United States, any soccer player who will amount to anything is already signed up in some sort of professional youth academy for a professional soccer team by age 16 or, in many cases, much earlier.

If this does become a bigger trend, which I think it will although I think it will happen very slowly and gradually, I think the benefit is that basketball will become a game played at a much higher level. More people from all over the world will play it and more people will have better training in the game. Top Euro teams will slowly but surely be able to secure more NBA caliber talent, even if they never reach the level of most NBA teams. Some players will opt to go pro in Europe immediately and skip college while others may decide to leave school early and take the guaranteed money in Europe instead of finishing out college. Either way, the overall talent level in college will take a bit of a hit although I don't think it will be enough to drastically change the popularity or importance of college basketball.

More eloquently said than I've been putting it (although from a somewhat different angle). I also think this might force the NBA's/AAU's/USA Basketball's hand in creating a similar development program in the US.

Better for basketball, not as good for college basketball.

From the Avery thread (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16078&page=2)

[Vincetaylor]

I think this is good for Clemson. His meltdown against Michigan was one of the worst I've ever seen by an athlete in a team sport in a big game. I've always thought he was a selfish player, and he proved it in that game. I'm guessing Clemson fans are pretty happy he's gone.

[whereinthehellami]

Olgesby was their third highest scorerer and best shooter. When you add in Rivers, who graduated, the stat sheets starts to show a big hole at the top. Clemson will take a dip next year. Clemson seems like they always lack good outside shooters and they just lost the only two they had.

[Olympic Fan]

I think this is a huge blow for the Tigers.

Yeah, Oglesby was awful against Michigan ... but Gerald Henderson was awful against Villanova and I sure as heck wish he was coming back.

I didn't see the selfishness that some of you see. I see a deadly 3-point shooter (second best in the ACC -- only Jack McClinton was better; Oglesby finished second in the ACC in 3-point percentage and in 3-pointers made).

I think the loss of Rivers was huge -- his shoulder injury had a lot to do with their late season slump. Losing Rivers and Oglesby decimates their backcourt. They have Stitt back and backups Andre Young and Tanner Smith, plus a couple of not-so-highly-rated freshmen.

Look at it this way ... Oglesby and Rivers combined to make 161 3-pointers last season, hitting 39 percent between them. The rest of the team combined to hit 95 3 pointers, hitting 35 percent -- that's right, the rest of the team made exactly 3 more 3-pointers than Oglesby did alone (and at a lower percentage).

I had Clemson tentatively ranked 4th or fifth next season (defending on Teague's decision at Wake). Now, definitely behind Duke, UNC, FSU, Georgia Tech and maybe Wake Forest (still waiting on Mr. Teague to make a final decision). In fact, I think Boston College rates ahead of the Tigers too.

Purnell will have a solid frontline, especially with the addition of Milton Jennings and the younger Booker to Trevor Booker and Grant. But his backcourt is really weak.

[SupaDave]

Cashing in while you're young basically. Can't really fault him for it.

And there is a huge difference between him and Nick - and that one difference being that Calathes actually put his name in the draft, which probably pushed his price up. The NEW "T.O." (giggle) wont be seeing those kinds of offers.

[JasonEvans]

It is very important to note that both Calathes and Oglesby do not count as Americans when they play overseas. Calathes holds a dual citizenship in Greece and Oglesby in Norway. As a result of that, they have options in Europe that most college players do not. The typical college player would count against European limits on the number of Americans on the roster.

Most European teams, when looking for the Americans on their squad, would rather sign a college graduate who will be stronger and more seasoned.

--Jason "agreed it is a big loss for the Tigers" Evans

[roywhite]

It is very important to note that both Calathes and Oglesby do not count as Americans when they play overseas. Calathes holds a dual citizenship in Greece and Oglesby in Norway. As a result of that, they have options in Europe that most college players do not. The typical college player would count against European limits on the number of Americans on the roster.

Most European teams, when looking for the Americans on their squad, would rather sign a college graduate who will be stronger and more seasoned.

--Jason "agreed it is a big loss for the Tigers" Evans

Have to say I did not realize Oglesby was from Norway (though a quick search does produce several references); thanks, Jason.

The Tigers may be thin in the backcourt (sound familiar?) but I don't see this as a huge loss. IMO Olgesby was a dangerous player, but not solid. If his shot wasn't falling, he provided little value otherwise; he was certainly prone to bone-headed plays (shot selection, turnovers, silly fouls).

With the dual-citizenship angle of Calathes and Oglesby pointed out, I'm less likely to see a migration to Europe by US college players with current eligibility as much of a trend.

By the way, do we play at Tiger-Town next year? We owe those guys big-time for that 27-pt whipping.

[dukelifer]

It is very important to note that both Calathes and Oglesby do not count as Americans when they play overseas. Calathes holds a dual citizenship in Greece and Oglesby in Norway. As a result of that, they have options in Europe that most college players do not. The typical college player would count against European limits on the number of Americans on the roster.

Most European teams, when looking for the Americans on their squad, would rather sign a college graduate who will be stronger and more seasoned.

--Jason "agreed it is a big loss for the Tigers" Evans
This is an important point that limits which players can benefit from this. It is hard to imagine this is a going to be a huge trend. That said- JJ might have a lot more fun playing in Europe.

[JasonEvans]

This is an important point that limits which players can benefit from this. It is hard to imagine this is a going to be a huge trend. That said- JJ might have a lot more fun playing in Europe.

Just so we are clear, JJ Redick earned $2.1 million this year. He is still under contract for next year at $2.8 million. At that time, even if some other club signed him for the NBA minimum, he would be making something around $850k (the minimum goes up each year you have been in the league).

The most you see on most European league contracts is about a million dollars... and that is really only in special cases. Most Americans playing overseas in even the top leagues are making more like $200-$400k/year.

Now, that is still very good money, more than darn near all of us make, but it is not the kind of salary you find in the NBA.

I strongly doubt you ever see JJ playing anywhere but the NBA.

--Jason "even in a bad fit like Orlando, JJ is having a strong positive impact-- he's going to play a while in the NBA" Evans

[Klemnop]

I'll miss Oglesby. He was fun. Sometimes maddening...but still fun.

Bottom line for the Tigers - probably net zero. Lose offensive firepower. Gain defensive presence. Lose zone buster. Gain better offensive continuity. Lose swagger. Gain poise.

Andre Young will man the point. Demontez Stitt sees increased time at his more natural #2 slot (as a slasher, not a shooter.) Milton Jennings picks up the role as dead-eye shooter. Donte Hill sees increased opportunity to become the bigger, badder Sam Perry.

And maybe Casey Prather or Mychal Parker or Jason Morris see a better immediate opportunity.

But I'll miss him. No doubt.

[Newton_14]

It is very important to note that both Calathes and Oglesby do not count as Americans when they play overseas. Calathes holds a dual citizenship in Greece and Oglesby in Norway. As a result of that, they have options in Europe that most college players do not. The typical college player would count against European limits on the number of Americans on the roster.

Most European teams, when looking for the Americans on their squad, would rather sign a college graduate who will be stronger and more seasoned.

--Jason "agreed it is a big loss for the Tigers" Evans

Bingo. Jason you read my mind. I think the dual citizenship played a big role in both of these cases. More so in the Calathes situation but still applies to both. I do not see this as the start of some new trend. Most American players will stay in the States and play college ball with the really good ones moving on to the NBA. For the guys not good enough for the NBA, they will continue to take their games to Europe with the vast majority doing so after using up their college eligibility... Just an opinion, and it will be worth watching to see if more follow..

[whereinthehellami]

I'll miss Oglesby. He was fun. Sometimes maddening...but still fun.

Bottom line for the Tigers - probably net zero. Lose offensive firepower. Gain defensive presence. Lose zone buster. Gain better offensive continuity. Lose swagger. Gain poise.

Andre Young will man the point. Demontez Stitt sees increased time at his more natural #2 slot (as a slasher, not a shooter.) Milton Jennings picks up the role as dead-eye shooter. Donte Hill sees increased opportunity to become the bigger, badder Sam Perry.

And maybe Casey Prather or Mychal Parker or Jason Morris see a better immediate opportunity.

But I'll miss him. No doubt.

I don't know about the net zero part Klemnop. Sure better defense is a plus but you guys have no offensive balance now. There is no perimeter threat. Sure one might crop up but in college sports, I'll always take the bird in the hand. He was a double figure scorer for both years he was at Clemson. He was a consistent threat that teams had to address when playing Clemson. Too bad Duke doesn't play zone because Clemson is going to struggle against it next year.

[MulletMan]

Hmmm...interesting...an unusual move for sure.

I wonder if Oliver Purnell lost patience with him, and encouraged him to look elsewhere.

No. This is not the kind of man that Oliver Purnell is. He would never run a kid off. Believe me... I've seen him work with far more frustrating players than Oglesby and not lose patience.

[Klemnop]

I don't know about the net zero part Klemnop. Sure better defense is a plus but you guys have no offensive balance now. There is no perimeter threat. Sure one might crop up but in college sports, I'll always take the bird in the hand. He was a double figure scorer for both years he was at Clemson. He was a consistent threat that teams had to address when playing Clemson. Too bad Duke doesn't play zone because Clemson is going to struggle against it next year.

Clemson's 2008-09 squad, minus Oglesby, might be challenged. I think with the addition of Milton Jennings and with an increased role for Andre Young, the 2009-10 squad won't feel the impact quite so acutely.

Jennings is an accomplished shooter (though, clearly, not the freak talent Oglesby was) who plays at 6'9" instead of 6'2". Match-up headaches vs. Clemson will change...but I don't think they're appreciably relieved for the opposition.

Of course I have an inordinate number of eggs in the Milton Jennings basket.

Klem

[AtlDuke72]

I don't understand the logic of saying this will not hurt Clemson. He shot 39% on 3s, and made a ton of them. He was a constant threat that had to stretch the defense. Next year he would have been a junior with two years of experience. Seems to me the teams with the juniors and seniors have a huge advantage over the younger teams. Losing Oglesby is a major blow to the Tigers IMO.

[sagegrouse]

I don't understand the logic of saying this will not hurt Clemson. He shot 39% on 3s, and made a ton of them. He was a constant threat that had to stretch the defense. Next year he would have been a junior with two years of experience. Seems to me the teams with the juniors and seniors have a huge advantage over the younger teams. Losing Oglesby is a major blow to the Tigers IMO.

You have uncovered one of the three laws that apply to words from avid sports fan:

1. "Always make a virtue out of a necessity." Oglesby's not available next year; well, that won't make a difference because Milton Jennings is going to step up big time. Or, EWill will make us forget Gerald Henderson.

Then there is--

2. "Remember that every silver lining has a cloud." Oh, I agree that Cutcliffe is doing a great job at Duke but that means that someone will hire him away just like Spurrier. [Wouldn't it be nice to have a football coach that other folks want?]

And --

3. "Remember to whistle when walking past the graveyard at night." Yeah I know this year's (2006-2007) looks shaky but this isn't 1995 or anything. Or, Grant Hill will be fine, as soon as he has surgery on his ankle.

sagegrouse