Tragedy at Virginia Tech

[mr. synellinden]

"Gunman is loose on the campus" at Virginia Tech.

One person is reported dead, another wounded:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-Virginia-Tech-Shooting.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[mr. synellinden]

It is now being reported that the gunman has been arrested; however, there may be several casualties.

[BCGroup]

One of my former grad students is working on his PhD there and just emailed us to let us know he was safe--they did evacuate him from one building, and they have a group of them confined in another building for safety. Very scary.

[AluminumDuke]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/?GT1=9246

[JasonEvans]

They are now saying 20... 20 ARE DEAD. That is stunning. That kind of thing simply does not happen. This appears to be worse than Columbine (13 dead plus 2 shooters). Just terrifying. Thoughts and prayers with the entire Va Tech community.

--Jason

[bird]

Here in Richmond, this is a full internet event as information is sought. News seems to get worse and worse. People receiving information with stunned belief; reserving reactions; trading info on whose children attend, who have been accounted for.

[captmojo]

22 dead, several wounded, air rescue impossible due to weather, gunman dies by his own hand (day too late)

[OZZIE4DUKE]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18134671/?GT1=9246

Just absolutely terrible. Now reporting at least 22 dead, 28 injured, mostly if not all students. Condolences don't even begin to convey my thoughts to all involved.

[Lord Ash]

Holy christ. What in the hell happened?

So many dead... SO many wounded. And I read on CNN that there were two seperate incidents; one at 7:15 AM and another 2 hours later?

Hard to even wrap your mind around. What a horrible thing.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

gunman dies by his own hand (day too late)

It always happens like that. Whether it be a random gunman, or a parent killing his/her kids or spouse, if only they would take their own life first without causing all the suffering of others.

[hurleyfor3]

They got the date wrong. These things are supposed to happen on the 19th or 20th, not the 16th.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

They got the date wrong. These things are supposed to happen on the 19th or 20th, not the 16th.

April 19th is the anniversary of Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City (Murrah Building) bombing. Is that what you are referring to?

[hurleyfor3]

April 19th is the anniversary of Ruby Ridge and the Oklahoma City (Murrah Building) bombing. Is that what you are referring to?

4/19 was Paul Revere's midnight ride and the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Also Waco, not Ruby Ridge. Ruby Ridge was in August.

April 20 was Columbine.

Today is the official celebration of Patriot's Day, however, so maybe they were going for that.

If you find this interesting, Germany's equivalent is November 9.

[captmojo]

WDBJ in Roanoke is reporting some students are being treated for injuries related to falls whereas some trying to escape their situation by jumping from buildings at heights as much as 4 stories. Right now they just concluded a report from early this morning from someone on telephone, gunshots audible in the background, lots of gunshots.

[RelativeWays]

Things like this don't begin to make sense. Look for another media crackdown just like after the Columbine shootings, only I guess GTA wil take the place of Marilyn Manson.

[captmojo]

TV reports at least one faculty member in treatment.

[RelativeWays]

Incoming reports are now saying anywhere from 29-32 dead. This is ridiculous. I don't know how people cope with things like this.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

One of the jobs I held at Duke, for only a semester or two it was just too much of a bother to keep it, was to lock the doors to a women's dorm at midnight to keep people without a card-key out. Monday through Thursday was usually pretty uneventful. On Friday and Saturday nights it was a different story. I was called every name in the book by various women who lived in the building who didn't want to bother to carry their card-key or they wanted a friend to come visit. When I explained it was for their safety, my goodness, many a woman would then explode even more. I found the best line was actually to just say, "Just doing my job." I got a few choice words about how poor I must be to be doing such a lowly job sometimes too. Duke could be a really loving, fun place to work. Anyway, when I see this kind of thing at VaTech I wonder how easy or hard it was for the perpetrator to get in the building. He might have been a student making my point moot.

[captmojo]

Many are critical and currently in surgery. Many more casualties may end from this. May God bless them all.

[Kewlswim]

I am sorry, but I have to wonder exactly what the murderer was armed with to cause SUCH horrible casualties. I wonder how long until the NRA insists it wasn't the fault of the guns:(

Anyway... ugh.

And what is with the two incidents?

From cnn.com

"One person was killed and others were wounded at multiple locations inside a dormitory about 7:15 a.m., Flinchum said. Two hours later, another shooting at Norris Hall, the engineering science and mechanics building, resulted in multiple casualties, the university reported."


Hi,

Wow. It sounds like a chordinated attack. :(

[captmojo]

Roanoke Memorial has 3 patients critical. Perhaps 3 others at other locations. Our prayers are needed!

[captmojo]

WDBJ reports the gunman had 2 9mm handguns.

[captmojo]

31 reported now dead.

[sanhew]

This makes discussion about college athletics and the search for a women's basketball coach seem so trivial. My prayers go out to everyone in the Va Tech community.

Have we gone mad?

[DevilWolf]

31 dead now???? I don't understand how the death toll keeps rising. This is the big downside of the internet age is that the reports have been very inaccurate. First it was one dead and the gunman in custody. Now we're at 31 dead, including the gunman. Did they get the wrong guy initially? Is there more than one shooter?

[hc5duke]

31 dead now???? I don't understand how the death toll keeps rising. This is the big downside of the internet age is that the reports have been very inaccurate. First it was one dead and the gunman in custody. Now we're at 31 dead, including the gunman. Did they get the wrong guy initially? Is there more than one shooter?

I'm guessing that's because the people initially in the "injured" column moves over to the "deceased" column. or they find more bodies.

[hurleyfor3]

This evokes an incident at Duke that was on a much smaller scale. Fall of 1992. Guy escapes from prison, gets a gun, comes to Duke and eventually holds a few people hostage in a room in the Med Center. I don't think anyone was killed but some shots were fired.

Not directly comparable but we did have a few hours of excitement on campus.

[VaDukie]

From what I've heard from friends at Tech (thankfully all of whom are safe), the incident started when the gunman got in a fight with his girlfriend. He shot and killed her this morning in addition to wounding an RA, and then for the 2nd shooting he went into a big lecture hall and chain locked the doors so no one could get out.

Keep everyone there in your prayers.

[tombrady]

This evokes an incident at Duke that was on a much smaller scale. Fall of 1992. Guy escapes from prison, gets a gun, comes to Duke and eventually holds a few people hostage in a room in the Med Center. I don't think anyone was killed but some shots were fired.

Not directly comparable but we did have a few hours of excitement on campus.


"A few hours of excitement?" Who the hell are you? Wow, you really have no sense of reality do you.

[Indoor66]

I am certainly not doing that; however, I am shocked by the sheer number of casualties and will be truly disgusted if the killer was armed with any sort of automatic weapon.

I find it disgusting that he shot people - no matter what weapon type he chose. He broke the law, moral and legal. The tool is irrelevant. A fully automatic weapon would be illegal in any case.

[hurleyfor3]

Tension, whatever. Not to imply anyone enjoyed it, least of all myself.

[captmojo]

It was reported at one time that in the classroom he lined everyone up and shot them execution style with a 9 mm pistol.

[Lord Ash]

Jesus.

What a horrible, horrible, horrible mess.

Thought I would share two things.

I am an elementary school teacher. At the start of every year, before students come in, the police come down and run us through a 911 lockdown, with the SWAT team coming in and all that. They also tell us what to do in such a situation, and they came to the point of what to do if you have swept students into your room and locked up and then a student comes to the door begging to get in. The officer in charge shrugged and said "There is no standard response, and I cannot give you any advice. The student might just be a student. The student might be the shooter, or being forced to the door by the shooter out of sight. What you do then is up to you." Talk about scary.

Second, they were also telling us that some schools are actually taking a new approach; that they are training students to attack gunmen. There are a few companies that have gone with the fact that 20 80lb kids can certainly overwhelm a gunman and are actually putting students at schools through training to attack gunmen.

[Carter431]

This is such a tragedy. How can we do these horrible things to each other? Why wasn't the whole campus put under lock down after the first shooting? Where was the shooter during the two hours before the second attack?

I can't imagine being a parent with a child at VT and hearing on the news that there has been multiple shootings on campus. My heart goes out to the Virginia Tech family.

[Lord Ash]

Wow. I was just venting, I'm surprised to hear it from such a high-up source.

[Windsor]

Hi,

Anyway, when I see this kind of thing at VaTech I wonder how easy or hard it was for the perpetrator to get in the building. He might have been a student making my point moot.

My daughter as at Lynchburg College in Va, and her roommate and her best friend both have an number of friends at Tech...she's been there. She tells me that like Lynchburg you need your Student ID to open the dorms or any class room building 24x7 or to use an elevator or get into a staircase on the first floor. During the day any student ID will open the dorm doors, but after a certain time only residents ID's work. Of course these are college kids and the dorm was a 350+ person facility - you couldn't know everyone so I'm sure someone simply held the door for the shooter (unknowingly of course) thinking they belonged there. Same goes for getting in to the classroom buidlings...a little knowledge of one the 'traffic' peaks are and you can get in no problem.

Loni

[jimsumner]

My son's in grad school at Tech in mechanical engineering. He's fine, didn't even go on campus today. The main thing I'm getting from him is confusion, not knowing who's dead, who's injured, does he know any of these victims, who the shooter was, when they're going to find out something, and the biggest question, why?

Truly, a horrible, tragic day.

[Lord Ash]

Amen, I have NEVER understood people who get snotty about not having a door held for them.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

4/19 was Paul Revere's midnight ride and the Battles of Lexington and Concord. Also Waco, not Ruby Ridge. Ruby Ridge was in August.



My mistake on confusing Ruby Ridge/Waco. But I knew one of them and OK City were on April 19th, my daughter's birthday. And Challenger blew up on January 28th, my wife's birthday. My birthday is still "uneventful".

[DankeShane]

Wow, Brodhead suddenly looks like a fantastic school president after listening to the VT president. There will be some major lawsuits in the near future once the details are resolved over why two students were shot in a dorm at 7:15 am and students were not notified for another 2 hours.

[pacificrounder]

I am a Resident Assistant at the University of the Pacific in California's Central Valley. Our Residence Halls are locked 24 hours and only accessible to residents by keycard. A constant battle that I and the rest of the RAs on campus fight is to discourage people from holding the doors for people they do not know. But, in large buildings, it is easy for anyone to slide through on another resident's swipe if they can wait for someone to come through.

I have a feeling it will get a little bit harder to do this at VT, I hope others take notice.

[adam]

ABC News is now reporting that 33 are confirmed dead...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=3045574&page=1

[Tom B.]

This evokes an incident at Duke that was on a much smaller scale. Fall of 1992. Guy escapes from prison, gets a gun, comes to Duke and eventually holds a few people hostage in a room in the Med Center. I don't think anyone was killed but some shots were fired.


The gunman (Ricky Coffin) was killed, I believe. I remember that a SWAT team sniper shot him through a window from a parking deck across the street. Maybe he was wounded but didn't die -- I can't recall for sure.

[hurleyfor3]

My birthday is still "uneventful".

That's not what your mother thinks.

[devildownunder]

My mistake on confusing Ruby Ridge/Waco. But I knew one of them and OK City were on April 19th, my daughter's birthday. And Challenger blew up on January 28th, my wife's birthday. My birthday is still "uneventful".

My sister's birthday is the 19th, too. She has something of a complex about it.

[pamtar]

Second, they were also telling us that some schools are actually taking a new approach; that they are training students to attack gunmen. There are a few companies that have gone with the fact that 20 80lb kids can certainly overwhelm a gunman and are actually putting students at schools through training to attack gunmen.

This makes me wonder why nobody tried to stop the shooter in this situation, and also, what kind of guns he was using. I could not possibly imagine these kids' situation but it seems that someone could have reacted - especially if the majority of the shooting was in a confined location. Possibly he was using some sort of automatic weapon to kill that many people without any presumed resistance. Whatever the case, God bless everyone involved.

[DankeShane]

This makes me wonder why nobody tried to stop the shooter in this situation, and also, what kind of guns he was using. I could not possibly imagine these kids' situation but it seems that someone could have reacted - especially if the majority of the shooting was in a confined location. Possibly he was using some sort of automatic weapon to kill that many people without any presumed resistance. Whatever the case, God bless everyone involved.

He had two 9mm handguns.

[YmoBeThere]

The gunman (Ricky Coffin) was killed, I believe. I remember that a SWAT team sniper shot him through a window from a parking deck across the street. Maybe he was wounded but didn't die -- I can't recall for sure.

My recollection of that day was that the one shot killed Mr. Coffin. I lived on Main Quad West at the time and since I never went to the Med Center wasn't really even aware of where the event occured until well afterwards. I don't recall Coffin firing at anyone but holding a couple hostages.

[RelativeWays]

http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus

Supposedly this is the blog of the guy who did it. I found it on another board I frequent. Could be a hoax or all wrong so take with a grain of salt. If this violates DBR policy, please delete.

[DankeShane]

http://www.xanga.com/wanusmaximus

Supposedly this is the blog of the guy who did it. I found it on another board I frequent. Could be a hoax or all wrong so take with a grain of salt. If this violates DBR policy, please delete.

It's not him. Internet rumor.

[throatybeard]

Two posts that served as trolling for political arguments have been deleted. Some responses to them have been deleted as well, even though the responders committed no infractions.

This thread is for updates on the situation and support for the victims. No further political trolling or political content will be tolerated in this thread.

[watzone]

First off, my prayers are with everyone at VT. My power was off from the wind and I had no idea what had happened until 2:30. I am appalled that the University didn't respond quicker. An e-mail? We thought it was over? Sheesh! In cases like this, you don't take a chance. Take action to be safe for gosh sakes. Surely, the second go-round could have been prevented. If not, one still has to think a few of the 32 people could have been spared this unbelievable evil.

[dukeisawesome]

I go to Tech. I was two building over from where it happened. After hearing all the facts, I can't believe campus wasn't closed after the initial shooting. I watched a professor walk out of a building with a blood stained shirt, but he looked okay. It's just terrible to imagine all the carnage inside. I'm really thankful to be alive right now.

[dukestheheat]

this is totally surreal. i cannot imagine the horror that those people felt in that classroom. 33 people! i listened to a video shot by a cell phone user and i counted 27 shots in the background; i kept wondering when is he going to run out of ammunition?

there better be a logical reason school wasn't cancelled after the morning attack; if not, you're looking at an ex-president of virginia tech along with the many mourning families.

prayers for the all affected, and a cry for some degree of civility in the world.

what is happening in our schools these days with all the shootings?? i have never in my life heard of so many kids/now older people being shot and killed at SCHOOL. ?

dth.

[Son of Jarhead]

My thoughts & prayers go out to the victims, their families & friends, and the entire VT community during this horrible ordeal. A true tragedy, I'm both sad & mad. I cannot imagine the grief & horror so many parents are feeling today. I have been hugging my kids extra tight non-stop since they got home from school today. The worst part for me is having to explain this kind of stuff to them again, like I did for 9/11, but... man, this is just so tragic, I just can't believe it.

[FireOgilvie]

First off, my prayers are with everyone at VT. My power was off from the wind and I had no idea what had happened until 2:30. I am appalled that the University didn't respond quicker. An e-mail? We thought it was over? Sheesh! In cases like this, you don't take a chance. Take action to be safe for gosh sakes. Surely, the second go-round could have been prevented. If not, one still has to think a few of the 32 people could have been spared this unbelievable evil.


I am sad for the entire Virginia Tech community. It must be terrible to have been or be directly connected to a situation like this.


However... I completely disagree. Hindsight is 20/20. There is absolutely no way that administrators could have predicted anything like this or future violence. They locked down the dorm where the first murders occurred. As soon as they figured out what was happening they drafted an e-mail to the students which they received just over 2 hours after the police were called for the very first time. They also had it all over TV and other media outlets and it was being passed on some kind of "phone tree" in addition to everything else. There is no precedent for anything like this (murder(s)... time gap... murder(s) in the same location). Many students were coming to campus or were already there by the time anything could have been done (~30,000 students/faculty/staff, only 9,000 live on campus... which is a huge piece of land). Why don't they lock down the entire city? Why not set up a police blockade on the state border? People will complain no matter what. What if all classes are canceled for the day and people are not allowed to leave their dorm rooms? Professors, parents, and students will complain. Once again, hindsight is 20/20. Even if the campus is "locked-down," the gunman could still go somewhere else if he wanted to. It's impossible to stop an unidentified gunman with two small handguns. It's easy to judge, and many people are angry about this (a natural reaction), but I know that everyone would have reacted the same way as the VT administration and police did.

Edit: The blame should be placed on the shooter... not the administration.

[dukestheheat]

dukeisawesome-

prayers for you right now and i'm so sorry you had to experience this. i can't relate but i just want to tell you i'm sorry and am praying for you. no easy explanations, just disbelief from me right now.

take some time away and get some counseling if you feel that this will help.

dth.

[_Gary]

The blame should be placed on the shooter... not the administration.

First off, I too am shocked and saddened by the events of this day. And my prayers certainly go out to everyone involved.

Secondly, I definitely have to agree with FireOgilvie. I think we need to wait and hear the entire story before we start assigning blame. It may very well be that the administration could have and should have done things differently. But until we get all the facts I think this is another "rush to judgment." The fact is right now the only person we know conclusively should be blamed is the one that pulled the trigger. Anything beyond that is unwarranted at this early stage of the investigation.

Gary

[A-Tex Devil]

I am sad for the entire Virginia Tech community. It must be terrible to have been or be directly connected to a situation like this.


However... I completely disagree. Hindsight is 20/20. There is absolutely no way that administrators could have predicted anything like this or future violence. They locked down the dorm where the first murders occurred. As soon as they figured out what was happening they drafted an e-mail to the students which they received just over 2 hours after the police were called for the very first time. They also had it all over TV and other media outlets and it was being passed on some kind of "phone tree" in addition to everything else. There is no precedent for anything like this (murder(s)... time gap... murder(s) in the same location). Many students were coming to campus or were already there by the time anything could have been done (~30,000 students/faculty/staff, only 9,000 live on campus... which is a huge piece of land). Why don't they lock down the entire city? Why not set up a police blockade on the state border? People will complain no matter what. What if all classes are canceled for the day and people are not allowed to leave their dorm rooms? Professors, parents, and students will complain. Once again, hindsight is 20/20. Even if the campus is "locked-down," the gunman could still go somewhere else if he wanted to. It's impossible to stop an unidentified gunman with two small handguns. It's easy to judge, and many people are angry about this (a natural reaction), but I know that everyone would have reacted the same way as the VT administration and police did.

Edit: The blame should be placed on the shooter... not the administration.

I absolutely agree with this. Everything that is wrong with the media is on display right now. Must scoop the other guy, y'know. Blame, don't report. Our number is bigger than there number -- put it up on the website.

An awful awful thing has happened and the media are looking for someone to yell at. (Paula Zahn was represhensible today). The admin is doing as well as they can right now, all things considered. You can't shut down a 2600 acre campus with no warning in 2 hours.

Prayers to the victim. Let's let the police do there job.

[Lord Ash]

I have to agree, the media is going after this, and it almost feels like the school, in a bit overzealous of a manner IMO.

With something like this, where they clearly believed the danger to be relatively over after the first shooting (either they thought one of the killed was the shooter, they thought the shooter was a community member who came into campus and was leaving after a known dispute, for example a botched drug deal) and so didn't shut the campus down. I am honestly wondering if the two shootings aren't connected, as crazy as that may sound.

[Wander]

It may very well be that the administration could have and should have done things differently. But until we get all the facts I think this is another "rush to judgment." The fact is right now the only person we know conclusively should be blamed is the one that pulled the trigger.

Exactly. It hasn't even been a week and some of us are already forgetting the lessons of the Lacrosse case. It's sad.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Originally Posted by OZZIE4DUKE View Post
My birthday is still "uneventful".

That's not what your mother thinks.

It was pretty darn eventful for me too, but that's not what I meant. No national tragedies on my birthday, thank goodness.

[throatybeard]

My wife is worse upset now because she found out that the class with most of the murdered kids was a German class. (My wife teaches German). The instructor was a guy named Jamie Bishop, from UNC, who her friend here at MSU, one of our two German profs here, knew. So this guy Bishop was an instructor, probably working for crap pay on a one or two-year gig, and probably waiting for next job season to come around while he gets another article out. He gets mown down in his own classroom. Shalay's friend knows Bishop's wife too.

I had tried to conceal from her that it was a German class...I found out because the bald girl on CNN with the nose stud, Erin something, who escaped from the room by playing dead at first, said she was coming from a German class. It's sort of like when all these people from one group die on a single plane, like those kids on TWA 800 in 1996. Classes in foreign languages other than Spanish/French tend to be like little brotherhoods of people with a common interest. A big frosh class with 400 people in a lecture room would seem somehow more randomly sampled. And probably more capable of tackling the perp.

I just talked to my friend from gradskool who works there in the English Dept and she's safe. She was teaching at the time (second shootings) and they totally didn't understand what was going on, and then they were on lockdown. She went home after about 2.5 hrs.

[DankeShane]

I'm just surprised that they didn't cancel class once they realized the shooter wasn't apprehended at the first crime scene, given how overly-sensitive schools are these days with shootings on campus.

I might be rushing to judgment, but I think the police/administrators were also rushing to judgment in assuming that everything was A-OK on campus despite the fact two people were murdered in a student dormitory and no suspects were in custody.

[colchar]

I'm just surprised that they didn't cancel class once they realized the shooter wasn't apprehended at the first crime scene, given how overly-sensitive schools are these days with shootings on campus.

I might be rushing to judgment, but I think the police/administrators were also rushing to judgment in assuming that everything was A-OK on campus despite the fact two people were murdered in a student dormitory and no suspects were in custody.

From what I heard tonight the authorities had a "person of interest" (anyone who knows anything about the police knows that means suspect) in custody and were questioning him at the time of the second shootings. Based upon that they might have reasonably assumed that everything was over. They were obviously incorrect (unless this is a tragic coincidence in which two separate shootings took place on the same campus on the same day) but how could they have reasonably known that at the time? In the heat of the moment, and considering the fact that they were questioning someone, it is, perhaps, understandable that they thought this was an isolated incident and this explains their decision not to shut down the campus. Tragically, many promising young people lost their lives because of this but, at the time, they obviously thought this was an isolated incident that was over.

[Cavlaw]

It's a very difficult situation to cope with, and one natural human reaction is to try to find someone to blame to try to make sense out of something that is just incomprehensible. With the shooter not yet publicly identified (and ultimately beyond retribution, making him an unsatisfying target of pent up emotions), people look for someone or something to lash out at, something they can point to and say "if not for this, maybe this could have been different".

I certainly don't think the media has been helping matters, in their eagerness to provide the public with someone to blame. For example, by the time I got home last night John King was reporting on campus for CNN, and he used the word "outrage" about once in every 8 words. He seemed obsessed with finding out who was "outraged" and who they were "outraged" against, and didn't let a student interview end without asking about the decision not to immediately cancel classes.

I was struck by the response of one the kids he interviewed, who hadn't been a great interview up to that point. The kid said that he couldn't say whether it was the right decision or not, because he didn't know all the facts yet and didn't know what the police and administration knew at the time. He said it was his understanding that the police had reason to believe it was an isolated incident and that the shooter had left campus, and they made a judgment call (he als said he had heard, as others on the board have indicated, that the two incidents might nto be related). He then said that even if classes had been cancelled, students might have been easier targets in the large cafeterias or to dorm common rooms. The last thing he said really struck me as the smartest thing I had heard all night - you just can't predict what will happen in a situation like this, there's no accounting for the actions of someone who would do something like this, and all you can do is repond the best you can.

[BCGroup]

I agree that it is important to wait and see before rushing to judgment. I know that on my campus, all our faculty were discussing that we don't know our emergency response plan (if we have one). Regular faculty meeting for end of semester of Friday just got a lot more interesting.

[IUGrad03]

I've been so impressed by the way the students have been handling themselves in public. With the media idiots constantly trying to have them talk about their "rage and frustration" they are all focusing on just finding their friends and starting the healing process. Virginia Tech should be very proud of the students who represent them.

[devilmon]

Agreed, IU. Students have done very well under extremely trying circumstances.

Similar to other posters, I am disgusted by the media's approach to the event. Having led my organization through a major fire event (obviously, nowhere near the magnitude of this), through experience I can say that on-the-fly crisis management is a difficult skill, even if you have a well-designed plans. I'd prefer if we took some time before demonizing the VTech administration.

[CMS2478]

I can understand why everyone is upset at the VT president right now for not informing students earlier, however, let me make a counter argument. From what I have heard he shot two people and left the original dorm. At this point it would appear to me it was an isolated murder. Murders happen all the time unfortunately (even on college campuses) and you can't go on lockdown everytime some is shot can you?? I don't know maybe I'm just not understanding fully. I'm sure the president or whoever had no idea that the guy was going to go on a shooting spree and probably just thought it was a murder incident, as it appeared to be. He notified the campus through an email letting everyone know that a gunman was loose. How was he to know that 2 hours later the killer would go on a shooting spree. I am sure that here in NC someone will be murdered senselessly today, but the whole town doesn't go on lockdown until the murderer is caught. I just the think the school is taking a lot of heat for this that is undeserved. Could they have responded quicker, SURE.................but to blame them for this second shooting is insane and that is what the media is trying to do.

I am not making light of this situation by any means bc it is absolutely horrible, but as a society we always try to find someone to blame for everything and in this case the only person to blame is the shooter and I trust he is getting his just punishment as we speak. My heart and prayers go out to all the families involved.

[TillyGalore]

I agree with everyone who has written we need more time to figure out if the VT admin and police did the right thing based on what they knew at the time.

The media as usual is running amok.

Like someone else posted, it hasn't even been a week since our own scandal has come to a conclusion and we're rushing to judgment.

We all need to let the police et al conduct their investigation before fingers can wagged.

[throatybeard]

We're starting to learn more about the victims; many of their names have been released to the Roanoke paper, and the Wiki article has associated articles on several of them.

I just found out that Jamie Bishop's mom is my wife's ES counselor. He's from Pine Mountain, GA.

Also killed in Norris were at least three Engineering professors, including this guy who saved a bunch of students; he was a Holocaust survivor (!): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liviu_Librescu

[mapei]

My friend's father was shot at Va Tech yesterday. He survived and should be OK, though it's still not clear whether he will need surgery. The networks were literally at the family's doorstep at 7am this morning.

[throatybeard]

That is extremely not cool on the part of the networks.

[xenic]

I absolutely agree with this. Everything that is wrong with the media is on display right now. Must scoop the other guy, y'know. Blame, don't report. Our number is bigger than there number -- put it up on the website.


Is that why DBR's headline yesterday was reporting "scores dead"?

[colchar]

Is that why DBR's headline yesterday was reporting "scores dead"?

Or perhaps because they knew it was a large number but didn't know the exact number so they figured it was better to simply say scores (meaning lots) rather than keep changing the headline as they learned how many really were dead (and thus act like the rest of the media scum).

[CMS2478]

I was over at the VT message boards and they have threads from all different schools showing there support. The Duke thread is already started and I thought it would be good if you have a minute to register there (it only takes a sec) and show our support from the Blue Devils. I am trying to get the link to work, but for some reason it's not working. If someone can get it to work go for it and I will keep trying.

[Channing]

I couldnt find the blue devil thread so i started a new one.

[Saratoga2]

It's a very difficult situation to cope with, and one natural human reaction is to try to find someone to blame to try to make sense out of something that is just incomprehensible. With the shooter not yet publicly identified (and ultimately beyond retribution, making him an unsatisfying target of pent up emotions), people look for someone or something to lash out at, something they can point to and say "if not for this, maybe this could have been different".

I certainly don't think the media has been helping matters, in their eagerness to provide the public with someone to blame. For example, by the time I got home last night John King was reporting on campus for CNN, and he used the word "outrage" about once in every 8 words. He seemed obsessed with finding out who was "outraged" and who they were "outraged" against, and didn't let a student interview end without asking about the decision not to immediately cancel classes.

I was struck by the response of one the kids he interviewed, who hadn't been a great interview up to that point. The kid said that he couldn't say whether it was the right decision or not, because he didn't know all the facts yet and didn't know what the police and administration knew at the time. He said it was his understanding that the police had reason to believe it was an isolated incident and that the shooter had left campus, and they made a judgment call (he als said he had heard, as others on the board have indicated, that the two incidents might nto be related). He then said that even if classes had been cancelled, students might have been easier targets in the large cafeterias or to dorm common rooms. The last thing he said really struck me as the smartest thing I had heard all night - you just can't predict what will happen in a situation like this, there's no accounting for the actions of someone who would do something like this, and all you can do is repond the best you can.

I listened to the briefing and agree that it was a very difficult situation and a very hard one to stop. What bothered me is how the police spokemen came on and congratulated each other for all the hard work they did and how they worked together.

Personally, I would expect the police to work together and work hard to deal with the issues. I see no reason to congratulate each other. There were 32 people that died, plus the shooter and many more seriously injured. Clearly this was not a success for the police in any way. Perhaps they should have been reticent about slapping each other on the back.

It is a horrific incident and shows how easy it is for a madman to cause such destruction and grief to so many. Beyond that, I don't see much of a lesson coming from this incident.

[wilson]

I was over at the VT message boards and they have threads from all different schools showing there support.

A link for the VA Tech board?

[johnb]

This may be too soon for some of you/us, but you might want to read a novel calledd Project X. It's a Columbine-like scenario from the point of view of one of the teenagers who is involved. I don't know anything about the shooter yesterday, but the book does manage to present the point of view of the violent outsider without sounding like an apologist.

[Carter431]

I wish that someone would tell the media how to correctly pronounce "Cassell."

My heart goes out to the Virginia Tech family. I pray that we never see a tragedy like this again.

[ikiru36]

I can understand why everyone is upset at the VT president right now for not informing students earlier, however, let me make a counter argument. From what I have heard he shot two people and left the original dorm. At this point it would appear to me it was an isolated murder. Murders happen all the time unfortunately (even on college campuses) and you can't go on lockdown everytime some is shot can you?? I don't know maybe I'm just not understanding fully. I'm sure the president or whoever had no idea that the guy was going to go on a shooting spree and probably just thought it was a murder incident, as it appeared to be. He notified the campus through an email letting everyone know that a gunman was loose. How was he to know that 2 hours later the killer would go on a shooting spree. I am sure that here in NC someone will be murdered senselessly today, but the whole town doesn't go on lockdown until the murderer is caught. I just the think the school is taking a lot of heat for this that is undeserved. Could they have responded quicker, SURE.................but to blame them for this second shooting is insane and that is what the media is trying to do.

I am not making light of this situation by any means bc it is absolutely horrible, but as a society we always try to find someone to blame for everything and in this case the only person to blame is the shooter and I trust he is getting his just punishment as we speak. My heart and prayers go out to all the families involved.

I agree. And had they sounded alarms and "locked down" the campus immediately after the earlier shootings:

a) if there were to be no later shootings, the administration would be questioned for over-reacting and unnecessarily provoking anxiety in 20,000+ students/faculty while also potentially interfering with the police investigation by sharing unnecessary information with the public;

b) if the later shootings had still occurred (quite possible since a "lock-down" and cancellation of classes could only have been partly accomplished in the 1-2 hour time frame between the attacks) we would always wonder if the administration's swift and powerful reaction had forced unnecessary panic in the gunman, leading to the severe violence of the later incident.

Perhaps there were some specific protocols which should have ideally been followed and that would have made a positive difference, but based on the available information (including the police possibly thinking that they already had a suspect in the earlier shooting in custody) I find it difficult to blame anyone but the gunman in this tragic incident.

(And not knowing anything about him, I'll be surprised if there isn't now talk of all sorts of "warning signs" which could/should have been heeded re: his recent behavior. Predicting individual human behavior is an inexact science, at best, and a general presumption of sanity is correct far more often than it is wrong.)

In any event, this is a sad and horrific event and my thoughts and heart go out to all who are directly and indirectly affected.

[dukeisawesome]

I wish that someone would tell the media how to correctly pronounce "Cassell."

My heart goes out to the Virginia Tech family. I pray that we never see a tragedy like this again.

It actually is pronounced "Castle" as I have heard from most media.

[Dukegrlny]

A link for the VA Tech board?

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=191#S=191&F=2577&P=2
Thread titled "Prayers from Duke" currently near the top of the page.

[Carter431]

It actually is pronounced "Castle" as I have heard from most media.

I thought it was pronounced like Sam Cassell's last name or at least that was how it was pronounced during basketball season. I guess I was wrong.

[captmojo]

A very dignified service at VT today. I'm glad the campus poet was able to use the occasion to score her many political points with the President in the audience. I could say something pretty smart-assed but I'm not sure this would be nice.

[jkidd31]

I am sad for the entire Virginia Tech community. It must be terrible to have been or be directly connected to a situation like this.


However... I completely disagree. Hindsight is 20/20. There is absolutely no way that administrators could have predicted anything like this or future violence. They locked down the dorm where the first murders occurred. As soon as they figured out what was happening they drafted an e-mail to the students which they received just over 2 hours after the police were called for the very first time. They also had it all over TV and other media outlets and it was being passed on some kind of "phone tree" in addition to everything else. There is no precedent for anything like this (murder(s)... time gap... murder(s) in the same location). Many students were coming to campus or were already there by the time anything could have been done (~30,000 students/faculty/staff, only 9,000 live on campus... which is a huge piece of land). Why don't they lock down the entire city? Why not set up a police blockade on the state border? People will complain no matter what. What if all classes are canceled for the day and people are not allowed to leave their dorm rooms? Professors, parents, and students will complain. Once again, hindsight is 20/20. Even if the campus is "locked-down," the gunman could still go somewhere else if he wanted to. It's impossible to stop an unidentified gunman with two small handguns. It's easy to judge, and many people are angry about this (a natural reaction), but I know that everyone would have reacted the same way as the VT administration and police did.

Edit: The blame should be placed on the shooter... not the administration.

I was thinking the same thing this morning when I heard there were calls for the Va Tech president to resign. If he had ordered a lock down of the campus after the first incident and that was all it turned out to be, they would be calling him out for over reacting. I'm sure lot's of things will be drug up over the next few days and weeks that wil point to the fact that someone should have spotted these signs and done something about it. The truth is you can't reason or predict what a person this delusional or sick will do.

[Carter431]

I didn't get to watch all of the service but the part that I saw was heartbreaking. All of the speakers had me in tears, especially the VT President. Despite the arguments of how the tradegy could have been handled differently, there is no doubt that that man loves his school and the kids that attend it.

[_Gary]

I'm glad the campus poet was able to use the occasion to score her many political points with the President in the audience. I could say something pretty smart-assed but I'm not sure this would be nice.

I caught that too and thought it was in very poor taste. This isn't the time to speak out in the tone that she did, and use the platform for any personal agenda. Really inappropriate, IMHO.

[fan345678]

Probably the most popular VT message boards are on the independent site, www.techsideline.com . Right now, most people from other schools are posting on the "football board," which can be reached via the drop-down menu under "message boards."

Also, Cassell Coliseum is pronounced "castle."

[Mal]

As others have noted, everything wrong with our media culture has been on disgusting display the last 24 hours. Really, did the Today Show and Matt Lauer need to be on campus this morning, soliciting recriminations and fingerpointing from students? What business did they have being there? Why are people who don't know a damned thing about crisis management or policework on national news debating, within a few hours of the transpiring of events, the response of police and school administrators, and predicting that the school's president is toast, before anyone has a clue as to any facts? Is it truly necessary to drop into the lead-in of every single bit of coverage of this that it's the "largest" such massacre in U.S. history? Are they afraid people won't feel badly enough if it doesn't surpass the carnage at Columbine? Is it not newsworthy without the superlatives and the extremes?

This is a horrible, tragic, heartbreaking event. It should be aired, and the public should be informed about it. So, tell us what happened. Tell us the identity of the shooter this morning when it's revealed. Then go away and give those poor people some time to grieve and cry and come together outside the spotlight. Go back in a couple weeks and give us an update. Honestly, we don't need Brian Williams blogging from campus. We certainly don't need to be "voting" on whether Va Tech should fire its president on the ABC News website.

But this monster of 24 hour news production and our apparent need for constant coverage, which will crush all in its way (subtlety, dignity, thoughtfulness, concision, accuracy, taste, for starters), demands that every angle be immediately bled dry and we become saturated to the point of total numbness. The fact that it happened yesterday and we're even discussing anything at this point other than the heartbreak the campus and families and others are experiencing is insane. Insane. Somehow we now consider it appropriate to have every nightly news show broadcasting from a college campus where people are devastated, tooling around in their vans looking for new footage and asking people to give interviews about how they're coping with the terror less than 24 hours after it happened.

Already we've turned this horrible tragedy into a news commodity no different than Britney Spears shaving her head, and Lacey Peterson and Natalee Holloway and Jon Benet Ramsey and Terry Schiavo and OJ and who's Anna Nicole's baby's daddy and whatever else. It robs those affected by this tragedy of a piece of their humanity. It's nothing more than tragedy porn.

Thank god for the media that the Don Imus "story" exhausted itself this past weekend, or they wouldn't know what to do.

Sorry, Jason Evans. I'm just not feeling very charitable towards your industry today. It trained its intense little probe on Duke a year ago, and I've been a peeved ever since.

[NYC Duke Fan]

Virginia Tech is a fellow ACC school and Duke as a university should do something. Unfortuneately I do not know what to suggest, but Duke should do something. Any thoughts ?

[wiscodevil]

A sampling:
As NRO's designated chickenhawk, let me be the one to ask: Where was the spirit of self-defense here? Setting aside the ludicrous campus ban on licensed conceals, why didn't anyone rush the guy? It's not like this was Rambo, hosing the place down with automatic weapons. He had two handguns for goodness' sake—one of them reportedly a .22.

At the very least, count the shots and jump him reloading or changing hands. Better yet, just jump him. Handguns aren't very accurate, even at close range. I shoot mine all the time at the range, and I still can't hit squat. I doubt this guy was any better than I am. And even if hit, a .22 needs to find something important to do real damage—your chances aren't bad.

Yes, yes, I know it's easy to say these things: but didn't the heroes of Flight 93 teach us anything? As the cliche goes—and like most cliches. It's true—none of us knows what he'd do in a dire situation like that. I hope, however, that if I thought I was going to die anyway, I'd at least take a run at the guy.


College classrooms have scads of young men who are at their physical peak, and none of them seems to have done anything beyond ducking, running, and holding doors shut. Meanwhile, an old man hurled his body at the shooter to save others.

Something is clearly wrong with the men in our culture. Among the first rules of manliness are fighting bad guys and protecting others: in a word, courage. And not a one of the healthy young fellows in the classrooms seems to have done that. …

Like Derb, I don’t know if I would live up to this myself, but I know that I should be heartily ashamed of myself if I didn’t. Am I noble, courageous and self-sacrificing? I don’t know; but I should hope to be so when necessary.

And although these are not necessarily mainstream voices, I have heard some pretty brutal takes on it from Limbaugh and Michael Savage along these same lines.

Where exactly is the bottom of this barrel?

[snowdenscold]

Where exactly is the bottom of this barrel?

Geeez - that's one I didn't expect. Blame the other students.

I mean, even though it was somewhat revolting, I at least wasn't shocked to hear Nancy Grace tonight (accidentally watched for about 2 minutes) seeking out blame and anger on anyone but the shooter.

So yeah, the media has not exactly been worthy of admiration recently.

There should be more stories and focus on what people can do to help, how parents can talk to their kids about what happened, etc. Not tasteless polls and speculation and blame by unqualified talking heads.

[TillyGalore]

Like many of you I have been disgusted with the way our media handles things in the past, from Columbine to 9/11 and especially the Duke lacrosse debacle.

In fact a year ago I stopped watching the news in the mornings while getting ready for work as I'd hear all about the Duke case on the local stations, then on the national networks.

So, it is no surprise to hear that the media is at it again. I have watched very little of the Va Tech tragedy on the TV or listened to the radio. Instead I've been getting my news from the internet - including DBR.

It is quite refreshing to read about it versus hearing about via TV and radio. To help with your blood pressure - I highly recommend the internet for news.

[captmojo]

Speaking as one who has been robbed at gunpoint, a counterattack cannot happen spontaneously with any amount of success. It takes planning and forethought. One is most likely to become another victim if not more. Also, who takes the lead? The best hope is that you might have equal firepower and you might be fastest on the draw. Unfortunately this could not be the case.

[wilson]

I caught that too and thought it was in very poor taste. This isn't the time to speak out in the tone that she did, and use the platform for any personal agenda. Really inappropriate, IMHO.

I actually liked Nikki Giovanni's speech. I though her spirit was refreshing. It also recalls a very real element of African-American poetry and culture, thus making it imo quite appropriate.

More importantly, I am amazed at the poise and class with which the VA Tech students have conducted themselves in all media appearances I have seen. They seem to genuinely care for each other and their school, and they have been well-spoken and respectful.

The one thing about yesterday's ceremony that tugged at my emotions was the "Let's go, Hokies" chant at the end. It seemed totally out of context, and yet perfect for the situation. I found it to be a powerful display of defiance in the face of hardship. That kind of unity will serve VA Tech well.

[captmojo]

I think she is a very powerful speaker. I simply thought the political diatribe wasn't apropos.

[wilson]

I simply thought the political diatribe wasn't apropos.

I agree with that, but I think the problem is unfortunately very widespread. Particularly on television, our nation is fractious and cannibalistic these days.

With the recent lacrosse developments and now VA Tech, I've watched a lot more broadcast media than usual in the past couple of weeks. What a cesspool. I am now more intractably committed to the print media than ever. Print of course has its problems too, but it's a more engaged process, making it easier to recognize bias and truly process information.

[mapei]

I too have been extremely impressed with the VT students. I was particularly struck by one who told the Today show the media should give the community more space, and by another who didn't have much to say other than a heartfelt "sometimes silence is the most honest reaction."

Mal: excellent post.

[wilson]

I also think the student body's ovation for the university president yesterday said a lot. It was immediate, seemingly universal, and sustained. Respectful, but strong applause for their leader. It is a normal human reaction to want someone to blame in a situation like this, but I sincerely hope that people don't transform heartache into "outrage" (what a hackneyed word) and ruin this man's career in response, and that those who wield the "big stick" in Blacksburg were paying attention to their students yesterday.

[throatybeard]

I hear that, Tilly. Except I gave up on TV news during the 2004 Presidential election or so.

I too am disturbed by the rush to condemn VT officials, and I was particularly pleased to see that Nikki Giovanni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikki_Giovanni) spoke in their favor at the convocation. (Because folks keep vaguely referring to "the poet," it wasn't clear to me who we were talking about--they have a prestigious MFA up there so Giovanni isn't their only name in Creative Writing).

One area of critique you keep seeing is in physical building security. I'm not sure how that would have helped unless you're going to have a card reader and a single entry point for all classroom buildings, and given pedestrian dynamics at high traffic times of day, that's pretty much impossible. You can't really quickly shut down an entire college campus at 8 AM either--that's like asking to "shut down" a town of 50K people.

Low-traffic times of day are one thing, I guess. We've been having this discussion with the higher-ups all semester at Mississippi State, well before the VT tragedy. English, Foreign Languages, Dean of Students, and a theater are all in the oldest building at MSU, Lee Hall (that's General Stephen D, not General Robert E...). The building is falling apart, peeling paint, periodic floods from the fourth floor into the third floor that ruin books and computers, a completely archaic heating/cooling system that doesn't work in summer and cooks us to death in winter, you name it.

But the real issue is security. Anybody can walk into the building 24/7. The handicap doors in the basement even swing open automatically if a cat walks by. We've been arguing with facilities and with the President's office about this for I don't know how long and nothing's been done. (The new Prez is a 4-star USAF general--I actually heard about VT from him when he was making his see-the-little-people rounds in the cafeteria). We've finally come to some sort of agreement that they're going to put a card reader on one side of the building on one floor. Someone at the last meeting said "are we just basically going to wait until somebody gets raped to do something about this?"

More well-heeled depts with more soft money and more labs (read, hard science and engineering) pay security out of their own pockets, but we don't have those sorts of resources. And even then, I think those are only rent-a-cops who can keep your pertri dishes from getting stolen, but if some paramilitary whacknut comes on campus they're just as screwed as the rest of us.

My general attitude is probably a bad one, but it's just that you can't really do very much about the VT scenario, short of putting armed guards everywhere and that's not financially feasible anywhere. Homicidal maniacs are going to get some of us no matter what. It's an unavoidable risk like cancer or heart disease that you're going to lose some people to.

But you can at least put the card readers on Lee Hall that Duke has had on doors since the late 80s.

[captmojo]

As many have said, it will take a long time to get over this but just wait till the first football game. This is the healing that athletics provide.

[Indoor66]

How about if we, as individuals express ourselves as individuals and allow the legal fiction entities to be that, legal fictions.

Those entities do not have "opinions" or do "acts" other than those effectuated by the individuals involved with that legal fiction entity.

[throatybeard]

We've deleted a couple more posts. We don't want to do that, but allow me to remind everyone that the moderation team will not allow this thread to be hijacked towards political discussions of gun control, of Rosie contra W, etc. So don't start down any of those roads.

[CMS2478]

It hurt my brain reading that post. :eek:

[CMS2478]

We've deleted a couple more posts. We don't want to do that, but allow me to remind everyone that the moderation team will not allow this thread to be hijacked towards political discussions of gun control, of Rosie contra W, etc. So don't start down any of those roads.

Sorry Throaty,

I was just trying to agree with you and say that we need to keep the focus on the kids and families at this point, not start a bunch of side shows and accusations. :)

[whereinthehellami]

This is a link to the the most popular Hokie website, Techsideline (http://www.techsideline.com/message_board/football/):

Here is a video from CNN on the shootings from an eye-witness. (http://www.cnn.com/video/player/player.html?url=/video/us/2007/04/17/chetry.eye.witness.wdbj)

Here is a link to the candle-light vigil (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuYyOjUA4M) from last night.

Go Hokies!

[Channing]

I just saw on CNN that apparently the killer sent a package with videos and writings to NBC in between the killings. The video they have posted is absolutely chilling.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I don't think that the video or writings of the killer should be made public. There are lots of people in this country and elsewhere with mental issues. Most all, I hope, are receiving the treatment they need. I don't like the idea of a copycat seeing these things and deciding that it would be a good idea to make a video and do bad things because it means that his/her picture, writings, and video will be shown on tv all the time.

So, I understand we live in a free country. I am all for free speach. I don't like the idea of, in a perverse way in the eyes of some, this guy being glorified. Glorified in the sense of his picture (the way he wanted people to see it in awful poses) and video being played almost as if in a loop.

Couldn't the news companies just have said, "We received a video, stills, and text and have turned the material over to the authorities, in the interests of public safety we aren't going to show the video or stills so as to keep copycats at bay? (or something like that)."

[Channing]

Hi,

I don't think that the video or writings of the killer should be made public. There are lots of people in this country and elsewhere with mental issues. Most all, I hope, are receiving the treatment they need. I don't like the idea of a copycat seeing these things and deciding that it would be a good idea to make a video and do bad things because it means that his/her picture, writings, and video will be shown on tv all the time.

So, I understand we live in a free country. I am all for free speach. I don't like the idea of, in a perverse way in the eyes of some, this guy being glorified. Glorified in the sense of his picture (the way he wanted people to see it in awful poses) and video being played almost as if in a loop.

Couldn't the news companies just have said, "We received a video, stills, and text and have turned the material over to the authorities, in the interests of public safety we aren't going to show the video or stills so as to keep copycats at bay? (or something like that)."

What kind of ratings and website hits would that have garnered?

(ps - i fully agree)

[rsvman]

I agree with you, Kewlswim.

Besides, did anybody really think that if they watched that video or read those words they would suddenly come to an understanding as to why this happened? In other words, does anybody think that there can ever be a rational explanation for such an irrational act? The whole idea is ludicrous, in my opinion. Nothing that benefits the public at large can possibly be gained by broadcasting this idiot's diatribes.

[Kewlswim]

I agree with you, Kewlswim.

Besides, did anybody really think that if they watched that video or read those words they would suddenly come to an understanding as to why this happened? In other words, does anybody think that there can ever be a rational explanation for such an irrational act? The whole idea is ludicrous, in my opinion. Nothing that benefits the public at large can possibly be gained by broadcasting this idiot's diatribes.


Hi,

I believe that specialized psychatrists and psychologists might get something out of reading this garbage, but I think that is a very small sub-group of the psychological community at large. I don't know if you caught it, but a young person in Florida apparently made a threat to kill a hundred classmates. I saw it on the tube as I was walking over to my spinning class. Why in the world was that on tv? Again, the person is getting what s/he wants by putting this threat on tv. There should have been no news coverage of this non-event. I really believe a lot of these people are after attention and I don't like to reward bad behavior. I have about come to the conclusion that the only things worth watching on tv are athletics and travel shows (I like getting ideas where to go on vacation, vacations I take way too few of).

[mgtr]

Hey, the fellow was a psychopath, there is no understanding their demons. The bad news is that plenty of people saw evidence of this, but took no [U]useful[U] action to stop him. Sad. I am betting that eventually we will learn to stop such people in their tracks early on.

[tuscany]

The Final Emotion (http://subscr.techsideline.com/news_archive/showArticle-2824.php)

[DevilAlumna]

Wade Smith, Colin Finnerty's lawyer, is acting as the Cho family spokesman:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9604940

[Uncle Drew]

I took a round about way driving to DC the other day through Roanoke and couldnt help but notice the outpouring of sympathy for Virginia Tech from one end of the state to the other. One would have thought the VT football team was getting ready for a big football game looking at all the cars with VT logos and banners attached. The entire nation was shocked by what happened and everyones sympathy has been apparent and justified. But a hypothetical question popped into my head while driving along and I just wanted to pose it to DBR readers and get feedback.
While UVA and VT are in state rivals I don't think anyone would say there is the bad blood like there is between UNC / Duke or even NCSU / UNC. God forbid anything that tragic ever happens on the campus of any North Carolina school. But if it had happened at NCSU or UNC, would you put a banner / bumper sticker of that school on your car to show your support? I saw quite a few cars with UVA and VT stickers and I know without a doubt the display was to show support in a time of tragedy. But I'm just trying to think of the circumstances that would have to occur to get me to put UNC on my car. When Jason Ray got killed I honestly felt for him and the family, just like I did when then guy went loco with the jeep in Chapel Hill. Im just wondering when does the rivalry become the second most important thing in a tragedy of humanity.

[throatybeard]

If something like this happened at Duke, a significant portion of the populace would be celebrating. More in cyberspace, but some in meatspace too. I'm dead serious.

Look at the reactions people have had to JWill's accident and to the LAX debacle. I really don't think we'd fare much better in the public eye with 30-some slaughtered University members. Now, I'm not saying that would be the mainstream, CNNish reaction. But the haters would be loud enough to get heard.

[johnb]

I might put a Carolina sticker on my car if they dropped basketball as a varsity sport.

[feldspar]

If something like this happened at Duke, a significant portion of the populace would be celebrating. More in cyberspace, but some in meatspace too. I'm dead serious.

Look at the reactions people have had to JWill's accident and to the LAX debacle. I really don't think we'd fare much better in the public eye with 30-some slaughtered University members. Now, I'm not saying that would be the mainstream, CNNish reaction. But the haters would be loud enough to get heard.

I doubt that. Neither one of us has any real proof to back up our assumptions, but I truly seriously doubt that.

[Duvall]

If something like this happened at Duke, a significant portion of the populace would be celebrating. More in cyberspace, but some in meatspace too. I'm dead serious.


I doubt you would see much celebration in the real world, at least not in public, but you're absolutely right that there would be celebration in the less savory parts of the Internet.

God, the Internet is a cesspool.

[vmurray]

If something like this happened at Duke, a significant portion of the populace would be celebrating. More in cyberspace, but some in meatspace too. I'm dead serious.

Look at the reactions people have had to JWill's accident and to the LAX debacle. I really don't think we'd fare much better in the public eye with 30-some slaughtered University members. Now, I'm not saying that would be the mainstream, CNNish reaction. But the haters would be loud enough to get heard.

I strongly disagree. I believe a lot of fans from other schools would wear a blue ribbon if this kind of tragedy happened at Duke. This goes far beyond a silly rivalry. If you look at the list of those massacred at VT a large number of those slain were from Va or surrounding states. The fact that it is a large state school may have widened the sympathy more than if it had been a smaller private institution. Internet fools will always be around. I have to believe the vast majority of the public are better than that.
VMurray

[Indoor66]

IMO, beyond those of us in the world who are very interested in college sports and, thus, in colleges/Universities, most people don't give a flip about any of this.