Coach K- Olympic Coach 2012

[BlueintheFace]

So will K do it again?

A new ESPN article claims that the core of the Olympic team might be back for 2010. It also states that Colangelo expects a coach to be named by the fall and that right now he is giving K time to consider.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4187292

[rotogod00]

So will K do it again?

A new ESPN article claims that the core of the Olympic team might be back for 2010. It also states that Colangelo expects a coach to be named by the fall and that right now he is giving K time to consider.

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4187292

selfishly as a duke fan, i hope not

[FireOgilvie]

I'm glad he did it for 3 years, it was great for him and the university got some benefit out of it as well. But, if he commits to another 3 years, I think his salary should be cut accordingly. Seriously. Duke pays him to coach Duke Basketball. If he wants to give 10% of his time to something else, cut his salary by 10%. He has already missed months of possible recruiting time. He has already helped to get the gold. He's done his part for the country, which is great. Time for someone new to step in.

[BlueintheFace]

I'm glad he did it for 3 years, it was great for him and the university got some benefit out of it as well. But, if he commits to another 3 years, I think his salary should be cut accordingly. Seriously. Duke pays him to coach Duke Basketball. If he wants to give 10% of his time to something else, cut his salary by 10%. He has already missed months of possible recruiting time. He has already helped to get the gold. He's done his part for the country, which is great. Time for someone new to step in.

His book sales alone will probably outdistance his entire salary for the year. If you want to reduce it out of principle or to send a message, I'm not sure that the result would be beneficial to the University/Duke Basketball. If you want to reduce it as a deterrent, I don't think it will be a very effective one.

[FireOgilvie]

His book sales alone will probably outdistance his entire salary for the year. If you want to reduce it out of principle or to send a message, I'm not sure that the result would be beneficial to the University/Duke Basketball. If you want to reduce it as a deterrent, I don't think it will be a very effective one.

Yeah, and his endorsement money from Guitar Hero, Nike, and American Express. I'm sure he'll be okay. I'm just saying, 80 percent of Coach K isn't that much better than 100% of a lot of other coaches, and it is unfair to the university that employs him.

[Billy Dat]

I expect him to continue his involvement, and I have feared for a long time that USA Basketball is going to be the thing that hastens his exit from Duke. He's a natural to take over the Managing Director job from Colangelo whenever that time comes. In the meantime, I am sure he feels like the World Championships are some unfinished business that he'd like to correct.

I am sure he doesn't believe that his involvement with USA Basketball hurt his Duke team one iota, so he wouldn't use that as a reason, publically or privately. He also is a guy for whom running a top basketball program has not been "enough" for some time. Most other coaches have a radio show, summer camps, instructional books and videos and are involved in numerous charities. Fewer run adult fantasy camps and collaborate on leadership books. Few, if any, others sit on the faculty of business schools, hold leadership conferences, head-up elite performance "labs", host XM radio shows, etc. K is a machine. I've seen him say that he always needs new challenges beyond running the program or he'd go crazy.

That's why I don't see him stepping away. If we're lucky, maybe he'll give up the head job to D'Antoni or someone else and simply serve as an assistant or "special consultant".

[BD80]

Yeah, and his endorsement money from Guitar Hero, Nike, and American Express. I'm sure he'll be okay. ...

Pretty sure the proceeds from the Guitar Hero gig went to charity.

[Billy Dat]

Chris Sheridan covers the story, K's potential role features prominently:
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=CoachKTeamUSA-090501

[sagegrouse]

Seriously. Duke pays him to coach Duke Basketball. If he wants to give 10% of his time to something else, cut his salary by 10%. He has already missed months of possible recruiting time. He has already helped to get the gold. He's done his part for the country, which is great. Time for someone new to step in.

Lets do the math. Calipari was just hired at a salary two times what K makes from Duke. Now, how much do you want to dock his pay?

sagegrouse

[wolfpackdevil]

While pointing no fingers, I will say that some Duke fans need to be a little less selfish. He has earned the right to go and coach the USA team for three more years if he wants to. Duke is lucky he is even still coaching in college, after the Los Angeles debacle a couple of years ago.

I think him coaching the USA team actually helped Duke this past year and will keep helping them in the future.

Coach K learned a lot working with NBA players and coaches.

I hope he DOES coach again and brings home another gold medal in 2012

[roywhite]

One of the attractions for the Redeem Team players this time is that the time commitment is less than the first time around. Play in 2010 and 2012, plus they have time playing together, familiar with the system, more familiar with international ball, etc. An easier adjustment.

So that same attraction of less time commitment and a system already in place would seem to be a lure to Coach K, too.

Purely a hunch, but I think he signs up again as Coach. And fine with me, as I don't see this being a negative to Duke, either.

[cbnaylor]

I hope Coach K does decide to do it again if he wishes. This should be an honor. To know that the school you pull for coach is wanted to Coach the Olympics. Coach K has handle Duke and the Olympics well. Trust me, if K couldn't balance within the two, he wouldn't do it. He knows where he's heart is and that's Duke Basketball. He promised the student body when he decided to stay at Duke. If coaching the Olympics was to get in the way of that, he wouldn't do it. Pay cut....Pay cut....are you serious. Coach K has earned what he is being paid.

[Duke #33]

I don't remember where I saw it, but it said that if coach K doesn't choose to coach the olympic team, he would still like to involved as an adviser to the team.

[Edouble]

Coach K is a great coach, maybe the best of all time. He is not Superman though. He is human. Coaching a Division I NCAA NC-calibre program is a full time job. Probably full time and a half.

I really hope he doesn't coach the National Team again. It seems illogical to think that it doesn't take time away from the Duke program, and therefore have an effect on the program.

Although I've heard the argument that coaching LeBron and Co. will lead to increased recruiting success, we never had any huge recruiting issues before the Olympics. I'm confident we'll get the recruits we need with Coach K at the helm full time.

[UrinalCake]

Seconding edouble's thoughts... the last thee years have not been up to Duke's usual standards. Yes we've done well compared to most other schools, and yes we've brought in some solid players, and yes our record this decade still speaks for itself. But we've also missed out on several key recruits (even with the understanding that no program gets every single recruit they want) and have three tournament wins in three years. Is it just a coincidence that this has happened during Coach K's tenure with the National team? Maybe it is. Maybe we would have done the same had he not been the coach; maybe we would have done even worse. But Occam's razor seems to suggest that his time away from Duke has hurt the program.

Not to say that he shouldn't be allowed to do it again if that's what he chooses, because he's earned that right, but I don't buy the notion that it doesn't affect Duke at all. How could it not?

[SupaDave]

I'm glad he did it for 3 years, it was great for him and the university got some benefit out of it as well. But, if he commits to another 3 years, I think his salary should be cut accordingly. Seriously. Duke pays him to coach Duke Basketball. If he wants to give 10% of his time to something else, cut his salary by 10%. He has already missed months of possible recruiting time. He has already helped to get the gold. He's done his part for the country, which is great. Time for someone new to step in.

For the record - this isn't taking Coach K's full role to the University into ANY kind of perspective. He's an advisor, spokesperson, elder statesmen, and oh yeah - Professor in the biz school. And you want to CUT his pay? (shakes head...)

[COYS]

Seconding edouble's thoughts... the last thee years have not been up to Duke's usual standards. Yes we've done well compared to most other schools, and yes we've brought in some solid players, and yes our record this decade still speaks for itself. But we've also missed out on several key recruits (even with the understanding that no program gets every single recruit they want) and have three tournament wins in three years. Is it just a coincidence that this has happened during Coach K's tenure with the National team? Maybe it is. Maybe we would have done the same had he not been the coach; maybe we would have done even worse. But Occam's razor seems to suggest that his time away from Duke has hurt the program.

Not to say that he shouldn't be allowed to do it again if that's what he chooses, because he's earned that right, but I don't buy the notion that it doesn't affect Duke at all. How could it not?

I'm willing to entertain the notion that K's commitment to USA basketball could potentially have had a negative effect on recruiting, but I really don't think there's much non-circumstantial evidence to support that claim. If I recall correctly, there may have been a quote from Boynton about how Billy D had been pursuing him really hard while K was in China to coach the Olympic team from that long ESPN piece, but that's about it. But that's about it. Patterson supposedly liked the Kentucky players better. Monroe was wooed by Georgetown. And that's about that. Maybe it did hurt a little with Boynton, but maybe it will help a little with a future recruit. I think it definitely affects Duke, but I'm not sure that the effect won't be positive, even when it comes to recruiting.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

His book sales alone will probably outdistance his entire salary for the year. If you want to reduce it out of principle or to send a message, I'm not sure that the result would be beneficial to the University/Duke Basketball. If you want to reduce it as a deterrent, I don't think it will be a very effective one.

How much do you think he's making off the book? Are you basing that off anything? I'd be really surprised if its more than his salary.

I'm not in favor of cutting his salary. I just don't think it would be good for the relationship. I would prefer he doesn't do the Olympics again unless he feels there is really no coach who is able or willing to step in and do a great job. I think there are going to be plenty of fine coaches so I don't think he should do it.

[JG Nothing]

During the Wake Forest game on January 28, Dick Vitale mentioned a conversation he had with K. Vitale paraphrased K as saying that he was not able to take a break because of the Olympics and, consequently, was more worn out than usual at that point in the season.
So, at least this past season, being an Olympic coach apparently did affect K's health and I would assume his performance as Duke's head coach.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I know what happened last time someone else took over for a short while. So, this is written with a heavy heart.

Perhaps it would make sense, if indeed Coach K was a bit worn out from the Olympic qualifying etc, to turn the reigns of the Duke team over to Wojo or Chris so he does not have so much on his plate. This is where I was sad that Coach Dawkins left. I would have liked him to have a season to run the club as its "actual" coach if Coach K needed to take time off.

Please note I am not advocating this. I am thinking that sometimes if one tries to do too much one does nothing well and it makes more sense, if his heart is with trying to get another gold medal, that someone else have a chance to coach Duke for a season while Coach K gets the USA another gold. I would rather, if it were up to me, that he give up USA coaching because I think it spreads him too thin and I want him at Duke giving his all.

GO DUKE!

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Hi,

I know what happened last time someone else took over for a short while. So, this is written with a heavy heart.

Perhaps it would make sense, if indeed Coach K was a bit worn out from the Olympic qualifying etc, to turn the reigns of the Duke team over to Wojo or Chris so he does not have so much on his plate. This is where I was sad that Coach Dawkins left. I would have liked him to have a season to run the club as its "actual" coach if Coach K needed to take time off.

Please note I am not advocating this. I am thinking that sometimes if one tries to do too much one does nothing well and it makes more sense, if his heart is with trying to get another gold medal, that someone else have a chance to coach Duke for a season while Coach K gets the USA another gold. I would rather, if it were up to me, that he give up USA coaching because I think it spreads him too thin and I want him at Duke giving his all.

GO DUKE!

Strongly agree with this. It may be an amazing coincidence that our fall from "clearly preeminent program" to "struggles to stay in the top 10 and make the Sweet 16" started just after 2004 and really kicked in after 2006, but I doubt it. Our recruiting, our in-season performance, and our post-season success have taken a major hit and that's, IMO, strongly linked to K's divided attention.

If K wants to be America's coach that's great. I loved cheering for him and the USA and that might be a fitting third act for the career of an amazing West Point guy. But half-measures aren't fair to the players he commits to, the university that makes him very, very wealthy or (a distant third) the fans that cheer him on. I'd much rather have 100% of Capel, Johnny, Few, Izzo, etc. than 50% of K.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Our recruiting, our in-season performance, and our post-season success have taken a major hit and that's, IMO, strongly linked to K's divided attention.

If K wants to be America's coach that's great. I loved cheering for him and the USA and that might be a fitting third act for the career of an amazing West Point guy. But half-measures aren't fair to the players he commits to, the university that makes him very, very wealthy or (a distant third) the fans that cheer him on. I'd much rather have 100% of Capel, Johnny, Few, Izzo, etc. than 50% of K.

Coach K has been excellent for Duke and has given Duke has all for many years. He has earned his pay many many times over. He has an experienced staff in place with his guys so he does not have to spend time coaching his assistants - they know the program. I am sure that he feels that he can do the job as Duke head coach more efficiently than say the early 80's when he was putting a system in place. Most other coaches has camps etc which both distract from their time but give them avenues to players etc. So I have no problem with much of what he does.

However the USA Basketball thing is a different story. It is a huge time commitment. He had the whole staff involved. While you can never tell just where we lost out, the fact is that next year's team does not have a true point guard. When Roy, Calhoun, etc etc and their staffs were scouting or reviewing file or a myriad of things our guys were involved with USA Basketball.

I think Coach K is 62 years old. He is not going to coach Duke forever. Personally I think if he wants the USA Basketball job, fine. But then Duke should create some kind of job for him - University Dean of Excellence or whatever - and use his considerable talent and love of Duke. Duke should also hire someone else to coach to be men's head basketball coach.

SoCal

[wallyman]

Absolutely. There's no evidence -- and no logic -- to the idea that K having another huge commitment helps him at Duke. And there's too much evidence -- and logic -- to the contrary. Unless he and Duke are comfortable with a Top 10ish program instead of one that expects to regularly compete for a NC and Final Four, having him again coach the Olympic team and try to recruit and coach against UNC, UK, KU, UCONN, Louisville and others where equally great coaches have one job is not a comforting thought. Right now, it's not working.

[gep]

He had the whole staff involved.

SoCal

I was a bit surprised by this when it happened... that the whole staff was involved. Would it help if *only* Coach K is involved this time, but the whole staff stays dedicated to Duke's endeavors? :rolleyes:

[Duvall]

The DBR Fora in 2009: Embarrassment or Blemish?

Discuss.

[dukeballer2294]

I think it would be beneficial for Duke. If K wants to do it let him yes he may miss out a little on recruiting but what are assistants for? Also its one thing to say o yea i coached lebron and kobe a couple years ago. Its another thing to say I coach them over the summer for the last 5/6 years.

[gep]

If K wants to do it let him yes he may miss out a little on recruiting but what are assistants for?

As posted above, the last time, the entire staff... assistants, some managers, etc were all away with Coach K. I agree, if only Coach K is away, Duke basketball shouldn't be very much affected...:)

[Edouble]

I think it would be beneficial for Duke. If K wants to do it let him yes he may miss out a little on recruiting but what are assistants for? Also its one thing to say o yea i coached lebron and kobe a couple years ago. Its another thing to say I coach them over the summer for the last 5/6 years.

When you say miss out on a little recruiting, do you mean like miss out on a second string utility forward, or like miss out on the best point guard in the class twice?

It's also just as impressive to say I coached "Player X" who is now an NBA All-Star. If we don't get the top recruits to campus though, this will never happen!

[SoCalDukeFan]

I was a bit surprised by this when it happened... that the whole staff was involved. Would it help if *only* Coach K is involved this time, but the whole staff stays dedicated to Duke's endeavors? :rolleyes:

While it would be better if only K were involved I would much prefer that Roy Williams was the Olympic coach in 2012.

SoCal

[Edouble]

While it would be better if only K were involved I would much prefer that Roy Williams was the Olympic coach in 2012.

SoCal

Yeah, I'm drooling over Roy coaching the National Team. It's a win-win situation for us. The Carolina program suffers, and Coach K has a chance to show his superiority, again, if Roy doesn't get the gold.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I think it would be beneficial for Duke. If K wants to do it let him yes he may miss out a little on recruiting but what are assistants for? Also its one thing to say o yea i coached lebron and kobe a couple years ago. Its another thing to say I coach them over the summer for the last 5/6 years.

Does this benefit Duke?

Miss out a little on recruiting? It that the difference between Sweet 16 and Final 4? Does that mean being forced to manufacture a point guard?

What are assistants for? His assistants were in Beijing.

Bragging rights to have coached Lebron and Kobe? Who cares? I would prefer bragging about the 4th or 5th or 6th NC.

Look, I can not think of the right word to describe what Coach K has done for Duke. To say "Coach K has been great for Duke" is insufficient. Remember that he went to West Point. As much as I think he loves Duke he is also a patriot. I fully understand that he might want to coach the Olympic team again. But if he does, then lets move on and get a full time coach. We are gonna have to face it sooner or later anyway.

SoCal

[dukeballer2294]

Does this benefit Duke?

Miss out a little on recruiting? It that the difference between Sweet 16 and Final 4? Does that mean being forced to manufacture a point guard?

What are assistants for? His assistants were in Beijing.

Bragging rights to have coached Lebron and Kobe? Who cares? I would prefer bragging about the 4th or 5th or 6th NC.

Look, I can not think of the right word to describe what Coach K has done for Duke. To say "Coach K has been great for Duke" is insufficient. Remember that he went to West Point. As much as I think he loves Duke he is also a patriot. I fully understand that he might want to coach the Olympic team again. But if he does, then lets move on and get a full time coach. We are gonna have to face it sooner or later anyway.

SoCal

Im not saying hes missing a little recuriting yes a majority of his time will be spent on the USA team but this time maybe the other coaches wont go. Without K wed be nowhere now give him a break if he feels he can do this let him. I trust him, its unfair that after missing some big recruits a lot of people on here are turning their backs on him. Coach K has done unspeakable thinks for the basketball program and the school in general and we should put some turst into him that he will make a smart decsecion for himself and the team. Give him a break this is fun for him if he wants to he has the rigth to.

[ice-9]

Coach K is too classy to admit that coaching the Olympics team made a negative impact on Duke, but let's be honest, it probably did given the fact that Coach K took his entire staff with him.

I remember reading various recruiting pundits all remarking that recruiting suffered because of the Olympics. They could all be wrong, but where there's smoke there's probably fire.

Plus, it's a no win situation for Coach K. If he wins again, it'll be par the course. If he doesn't win, it'll negate what he accomplished with the previous team. And there's also the risk that the core players who won the gold may not sign up for a second go around -- it must be tiring playing all year round five/six years out of seven.

Coach K's publicly stated hesitation is a sure sign to me that he doesn't intend to coach for the next Olympics. My theory is that he's just waiting for the right time to turn it down, and the launch of his new book is probably not it. ;)

[dukieinhebron]

Coach K has served his time as the US men's basketball coach. Let someone else take over, so he can put his full attention towards Duke.

[Oriole Way]

With guys like Lebron, Kobe, CP3, and Wade on the team, the national team will be in decent shape, regardless of who the coach is.

Coach K already dedicated 3 years to team USA and accomplished all of his goals. If he really wants to do it again, that's obviously his choice, but as a Duke fan, I don't want him coaching team USA anymore. The program has gone downhill since he started devoting more attention to team USA and less to Duke. Duke continues to miss with some really crucial recruits, so any positive results from the gold medal run from a recruiting standpoint are virtually non-existant.

Duke basketball needs Coach K significantly more than Team USA does. I hope he realizes this and turns down a second run.

[rotogod00]

With guys like Lebron, Kobe, CP3, and Wade on the team, the national team will be in decent shape, regardless of who the coach is.

Coach K already dedicated 3 years to team USA and accomplished all of his goals. If he really wants to do it again, that's obviously his choice, but as a Duke fan, I don't want him coaching team USA anymore. The program has gone downhill since he started devoting more attention to team USA and less to Duke. Duke continues to miss with some really crucial recruits, so any positive results from the gold medal run from a recruiting standpoint are virtually non-existant.

Duke basketball needs Coach K significantly more than Team USA does. I hope he realizes this and turns down a second run.

yeah, when exactly were we supposed to start seeing that positive boost to recruiting again?

[NSDukeFan]

Coach K is too classy to admit that coaching the Olympics team made a negative impact on Duke, but let's be honest, it probably did given the fact that Coach K took his entire staff with him.



Just one other point to consider may be whether it helped K and his assistants to be better coaches. I realize Wojo can't coach big men because he was a point guard;), but that may be another benefit for Duke basketball.
I think he has probably earned the right to coach the Olympic team and Duke if he wants.

[dukestheheat]

^^^^^^

What Kewlswim said.

dth.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Hi,

I know what happened last time someone else took over for a short while. So, this is written with a heavy heart.

Perhaps it would make sense, if indeed Coach K was a bit worn out from the Olympic qualifying etc, to turn the reigns of the Duke team over to Wojo or Chris so he does not have so much on his plate. This is where I was sad that Coach Dawkins left. I would have liked him to have a season to run the club as its "actual" coach if Coach K needed to take time off.

Please note I am not advocating this. I am thinking that sometimes if one tries to do too much one does nothing well and it makes more sense, if his heart is with trying to get another gold medal, that someone else have a chance to coach Duke for a season while Coach K gets the USA another gold. I would rather, if it were up to me, that he give up USA coaching because I think it spreads him too thin and I want him at Duke giving his all.

GO DUKE!

... I really do think both recruiting and bonding were hurt by the absence of the coaching staff in general and Coach K in particular. I am so proud that he did this and won a gold medal... to me, that gold medal comes to Duke as much as anything. But these last four or five years have really been disappointing. Two NPOY (all around and defensive) with Shelden and JJ, and we can't make it out of the Sweet 16? Two years (2007 and 2008) where we can't make it TO the Sweet 16? I have heard the guys talking, and there just isn't the same tone as there was 8 or 18 years ago (god, has it really been that long since the first NC? :eek:)

I love K and never want him to stop being the Duke coach. But I do think that the absences of him and his staff caused by Team USA (and now by the book tour) have hurt the team. Funny that we have 3 point guards as coaches and not a single one on the floor... I just can't understand how our recruiting got us into this position... We'll have what would be a great year for lots of other teams, but I certainly don't think there is a guarantee of a Final Four or Sweet 16 this year...

And I haven't following recruiting beyond the Class of 09. What's the point guard situation after this next season? Go Devils!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[stickdog]

Don't all the arguments against Coach K continuing as the head coach for Team USA also apply to Kobe Bryant, Lebron James and every other player in the NBA?

Coaching Team USA is the highest honor in coaching for a man like Coach K. Coach K deserves the opportunity and his country's national basketball program deserves his services.

Coach K works his butt off to bring the gold back to the USA, and Duke fans thank him by whining about 30 win seasons. What a country!

[Edouble]

Don't all the arguments against Coach K continuing as the head coach for Team USA also apply to Kobe Bryant, Lebron James and every other player in the NBA?

No, they don't. Those are very different situations.

[stickdog]

No, they don't. Those are very different situations.
Please explain how the situations differ.

[BD80]

... Coaching Team USA is the highest honor in coaching for a man like Coach K. Coach K deserves the opportunity and his country's national basketball program deserves his services. ...

I say ride the momentum. Much of Team USA's success was getting the best players in the world to buy into a team concept - particularly on the defensive end. Most of those players seemed to be improved players when they returned to the NBA, particlarly Lebron, Melo and Howard. Coach K's cred rises with their successes. It wouldn't hrt for him to be the one to hold the team together and to continue the winning tradition.

IF these guys are coming back, there shouldn't be as much effort to coach the team. There would be less pressure. Coach K deserves the credit for turning USA basketball around, so let him bask in the glow while it is relatively easy. With the current dream team, any coach who doesn't try to change things dramatically should win. The only coaches who would deserve that boost would be the assistants from last year.

There will be a down time when the current superstars choose not to return, and lesser stars attempt to fill their shoes - and adopt the team concept the current players embraced. That will require some serious coaching effort and I would not like to see Coach K jump into that situation.

In the end, as long as Coach K wishes to imprint his leadership upon the national team, I am in full support. I do agree that leaving some of the staff home to minimize the effect on the program sounds like a good idea.

[brevity]

Please explain how the situations differ.

I wasn't the one who said it, but here's one difference. College basketball coaching is close to a year-round job. Combine that with the business of being Coach K, and it is a year-round job. Jobs, really.

By comparison, an elite NBA player commits 7-9 months a year to the team. He may have an offseason conditioning ritual, but can be more flexible with his plans.

More to the point, though, the USA Basketball schedule can coexist with the NBA schedule. But it's more difficult for a college coach to squeeze USA Basketball into the intermittent recruiting periods during the season and offseason. It can be done, and certainly has been done, but it involves significant compromise.

Count me among those who would rather not see Coach K commit to London 2012, but not for any Duke-related reasons. I think the position is a once-in-a-lifetime experience, and it just seems unfair to do it again and deny another coach the opportunity. Gregg Popovich and Jerry Sloan have experience as Assistant Coaches, but have never headed the team. (Same with Roy Williams.)

[stickdog]

Playing as many as 100+ NBA basketball games over 9 months takes a lot out of a star NBA player. NBA teams would certainly rather have their stars resting, doing light skills drills, hitting the weights and maintaining conditioning regimes over the NBA off-season than playing 20 or so more games against the highest competition in an extremely competitive environment.

And, yes, being the head coach for a US Olympic team has always in the past been a once in a lifetime opportunity. That's why coaching the two USA Olympic teams in a row would be the highest honor ever bestowed on coach in basketball history. What I find supremely tragic is that some here would actually rather terminate Coach K than allow him to accept such an honor.

[dukejim1]

Mr. Iba coached the USA Olympic basketball team in 1964, 1968 and 1972. He is the only coach in USA Olympic basketball history to win two gold medals (1964 in Tokyo; 1968 in Mexico City). The 1972 final resulted in a controversial loss to the Soviet Union breaking Team USA's 63-game win streak since basketball was introduced to the Olympics in 1936.

[stickdog]

I stand corrected.

Being the head coach for a US Olympic team has been a once in a lifetime opportunity for almost the last 40 years. That's why coaching two USA Olympic teams in a row would be one of the highest honors ever bestowed on any coach in basketball history. What I find supremely tragic is that some here would actually rather terminate Coach K than allow him to accept such a great and almost unprecedented honor.

[Greg_Newton]

I stand corrected.

Being the head coach for a US Olympic team has been a once in a lifetime opportunity for almost the last 40 years. That's why coaching two USA Olympic teams in a row would be one of the highest honors ever bestowed on any coach in basketball history. What I find supremely tragic is that some here would actually rather terminate Coach K than allow him to accept such a great and almost unprecedented honor.

I think you may be missing the point of what some posters are saying. No one is arguing that it would not be a huge honor, but at some point certain commitments are mutually exclusive. For example, say Mr. Obama had offered his secretary of state position to K. Would it be an enormous honor? Absolutely. Would I be proud of K if he served in the position, and support his decision if he did? Absolutely. Would I want him to try to stay on and be the Duke basketball coach in the meantime? Well... probably not. If he decided to take the position, best of luck to him - but it would be time to move on.

That's obviously a bigger time commitment than coaching the national team, but you get the idea. I will personally support K in whatever he does, but at some point it's just not practical to stretch yourself too thin try and hold multiple positions that each demand huge commitments of your time and effort. Duke will never "terminate" K for any reason, ever, but it's a legitimate issue that should probably be addressed if he decides to continue his tenure as national team coach.

[Edouble]

Please explain how the situations differ.

The difference seems obvious.

Kobe, LeBron, 'Melo, and Dwight Howard are all in the NBA Semi-Finals.

No current Duke undergrad has seen the Blue Devils get out of the Sweet 16.

[stickdog]

Can anyone here see this from K's POV?

If your greatest individual talent were coaching basketball, how could you better serve your country than by coaching Team USA to another Olympic gold medal?

How could coaching the best players in the USA with the best professional and college coaches in the USA on the biggest stage in world basketball possibly be perceived as a negative to your full time college basketball coaching job? How could continued avid endorsements of your coaching by the likes of Kobe, Lebron, CP3, Dwayne, Dwight and Carmelo possibly hurt your program?

[ice-9]

Can anyone here see this from K's POV?

If your greatest individual talent were coaching basketball, how could you better serve your country than by coaching Team USA to another Olympic gold medal?

How could coaching the best players in the USA with the best professional and college coaches in the USA on the biggest stage in world basketball possibly be perceived as a negative to your full time college basketball coaching job? How could continued avid endorsements of your coaching by the likes of Kobe, Lebron, CP3, Dwayne, Dwight and Carmelo possibly hurt your program?


I am taking Coach K's POV (or speculating about it, at least) when I say I don't think he wants to coach the 2012 team, and that he's waiting for the right time to say it.

The only thing that would lure him back I think would be if the core team returned intact (Lebron, Kobe, Wade, CP3, Anthony, etc.), which as another pointed out would mean a very easy coaching job. But I question whether that'll happen given those players would be playing all year round for six or seven years out of eight. That's a huge commitment.

[arnie]

I am taking Coach K's POV (or speculating about it, at least) when I say I don't think he wants to coach the 2012 team, and that he's waiting for the right time to say it.

The only thing that would lure him back I think would be if the core team returned intact (Lebron, Kobe, Wade, CP3, Anthony, etc.), which as another pointed out would mean a very easy coaching job. But I question whether that'll happen given those players would be playing all year round for six or seven years out of eight. That's a huge commitment.

To me, the greater concern if he takes on the 2012 commitment; is he done at Duke? If he elects to make that multi-year commitment, he may have also decided to retire from coaching at Duke. His decision will likely have a huge impact on Duke basketball.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Can anyone here see this from K's POV?

If your greatest individual talent were coaching basketball, how could you better serve your country than by coaching Team USA to another Olympic gold medal?

How could coaching the best players in the USA with the best professional and college coaches in the USA on the biggest stage in world basketball possibly be perceived as a negative to your full time college basketball coaching job? How could continued avid endorsements of your coaching by the likes of Kobe, Lebron, CP3, Dwayne, Dwight and Carmelo possibly hurt your program?

I certainly see it from K's POV. I also have no problem with him if he chooses to coach Team USA.

However I think that head basketball coach at Duke is a full time job. I can assure you that most of the coaches of our opponents treat it as a full time job. If K chooses to coach Team USA then Duke should find another job for him, one with less time demands and one that utilizes his reputation, his love for Duke, and some of his interests - academic/athletic excellence, leadership, etc.

SoCal

[DevilWolf]

You guys obviously missed the interview with Rome when all of this was discussed, even in specific terms of "Did it hurt Duke?" and "the slump" and K's career path. Coach K said he felt like the experience added years to his career and had previously had thoughts about when 'enough was enough', but those thoughts had been completely erased. Said he's always wanted to work with professional players but he also learned a lot about why he fell in love with coaching collegiate players in the first place through his experience. Mentioned the value of having Collins and Wojo with him along the way and they would hold meetings after practices to talk about how to take what they were doing with the Olympic team back to Duke. Talked about recruiting and how the "slump" was due to missing on some pretty talented recruits over the past few years, and he felt like it was great for him to be able to learn from the players who are idolized by the players he's trying to recruit.

He also spoke AT LENGTH about how great Duke was to allow him this opportunity.

[FireOgilvie]

You guys obviously missed the interview with Rome when all of this was discussed, even in specific terms of "Did it hurt Duke?" and "the slump" and K's career path. Coach K said he felt like the experience added years to his career and had previously had thoughts about when 'enough was enough', but those thoughts had been completely erased. Said he's always wanted to work with professional players but he also learned a lot about why he fell in love with coaching collegiate players in the first place through his experience. Mentioned the value of having Collins and Wojo with him along the way and they would hold meetings after practices to talk about how to take what they were doing with the Olympic team back to Duke. Talked about recruiting and how the "slump" was due to missing on some pretty talented recruits over the past few years, and he felt like it was great for him to be able to learn from the players who are idolized by the players he's trying to recruit.

He also spoke AT LENGTH about how great Duke was to allow him this opportunity.

I have no problem with the first 3 years, even though it was the worst 3 year period in Coach K's tenure since '85-'86 as far as tournament success (not including '94-'95, which he didn't coach). I have a problem with the next 3 years. Now is the time to take advantage of the Olympic experience for Duke, not to take even more time away to attempt for a 2nd gold medal.

[SoCalDukeFan]

You guys obviously missed the interview with Rome when all of this was discussed, even in specific terms of "Did it hurt Duke?" and "the slump" and K's career path. Coach K said he felt like the experience added years to his career and had previously had thoughts about when 'enough was enough', but those thoughts had been completely erased. Said he's always wanted to work with professional players but he also learned a lot about why he fell in love with coaching collegiate players in the first place through his experience. Mentioned the value of having Collins and Wojo with him along the way and they would hold meetings after practices to talk about how to take what they were doing with the Olympic team back to Duke. Talked about recruiting and how the "slump" was due to missing on some pretty talented recruits over the past few years, and he felt like it was great for him to be able to learn from the players who are idolized by the players he's trying to recruit.

He also spoke AT LENGTH about how great Duke was to allow him this opportunity.

I think it would have been very hard to turn the job when it was offered the first time. I am also glad that it re-energized him. I fully understand that he could have been thinking that "enough is enough."

However we will never if know taking the assistants along was the right thing to do or not. Maybe if they were on the recruiting trail we would have a true point guard for next year.

I continue to think that the best thing for Duke would be to have Roy Williams as the next Team USA coach.

SoCal

[SilkyJ]

I continue to think that the best thing for Duke would be to have Roy Williams as the next Team USA coach.

SoCal

This attitude is so pathetic, and is just what the guys over at IC want to see. It translates to "We need UNC's coach to be distracted for a while so their program suffers a little so we can beat them." i.e. we can't beat them straight up.

How about a little confidence in the greatest college program of the last 30 years.

[johaad]

This attitude is so pathetic, and is just what the guys over at IC want to see. It translates to "We need UNC's coach to be distracted for a while so their program suffers a little so we can beat them." i.e. we can't beat them straight up.

How about a little confidence in the greatest college program of the last 30 years.

Exactly. Plus we know from experience that if we were to beat them when Roy was coaching Team USA, we would never hear the end of it. Because, as we know, UNC is the only team that suffers injuries and any win against them while one of their own is injured doesn't count.

[CameronBornAndBred]

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/story/5274499/
K's comments, although only a few words. Sounds like he is considering it strongly.

[BlueintheFace]

My money is on him doing it again. I really think he is in.

That is completely fine with me and makes me proud.. However, I have just one stipulation... leave the assistants behind please.

[FireOgilvie]

My money is on him doing it again. I really think he is in.

That is completely fine with me and makes me proud.. However, I have just one stipulation... leave the assistants behind please.

If he's going to do it, my preference is that not only do the assistants stay behind, but they hire another assistant, preferably a young, smart, and energetic recruiter from outside of the program, to help pick up some of the slack.

It's time we get some outside influence back into the program, which has been done in the past, but for some reason not in the last few years. Maybe a former center/power forward who can help with the huge number big men we have now. It couldn't hurt.

[SilkyJ]

My money is on him doing it again. I really think he is in.

That is completely fine with me and makes me proud.. However, I have just one stipulation... leave the assistants behind please.

Agreed. Or maybe have them involved in a rotation so that at least 1 or 2 is available for recruiting, working with our team, etc. That said I do believe that our assistants can gain a lot through working with the other high-caliber coaches on the staff, not to mention the players, so I definitely want them to have that opportunity.


If he's going to do it, my preference is that not only do the assistants stay behind, but they hire another assistant, preferably a young, smart, and energetic recruiter from outside of the program, to help pick up some of the slack.

It's time we get some outside influence back into the program, which has been done in the past, but for some reason not in the last few years. Maybe a former center/power forward who can help with the huge number big men we have now. It couldn't hurt.

Interesting, not a bad idea. I dont think we've had a non-Duke as an assistant since the mid-90s...someone please correct me if that's incorrect.

[mph]

If he's going to do it, my preference is that not only do the assistants stay behind, but they hire another assistant, preferably a young, smart, and energetic recruiter from outside of the program, to help pick up some of the slack.

It's time we get some outside influence back into the program, which has been done in the past, but for some reason not in the last few years. Maybe a former center/power forward who can help with the huge number big men we have now. It couldn't hurt.

The NCAA allows a maximum of 4 coaches for D1 basketball. See page 56. (http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Division_1_Manual_2008-09e9e568a1-c269-4423-9ca5-16d6827c16bc.pdf)

[FireOgilvie]

The NCAA allows a maximum of 4 coaches for D1 basketball. See page 56. (http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Division_1_Manual_2008-09e9e568a1-c269-4423-9ca5-16d6827c16bc.pdf)


True, but there are positions and titles that don't involve the word "coach." Associate trainer, assistant of basketball operations, etc. I have no idea how the NCAA regulates this. Is it unacceptable for the training staff to give individual attention to players after practice? Look at UNC's basketball page... they list 8 people under "coaching staff." http://tarheelblue.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/unc-m-baskbl-mtt.html#coaches After Wojo or Collins leaves, which I predict will happen fairly soon, there could be a promotion. The four coach rule reinforces, to me, just how bad of an idea it is for Coach K to renew his commitment to USA Basketball. We're limited to 4 coaches, but last year when they were working with the US team, we probably had the equivalent of 1 or 2 for a period of time.

[watzone]

Here is K's entire interview - http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2308

[SoCalDukeFan]

This attitude is so pathetic, and is just what the guys over at IC want to see. It translates to "We need UNC's coach to be distracted for a while so their program suffers a little so we can beat them." i.e. we can't beat them straight up.

How about a little confidence in the greatest college program of the last 30 years.

is living in the past and not facing the reality of the present.

In the last 5 years we have been to 0 Final Fours. UNC-CH has won 2 NCs.
My guess is that they have won more head to head games in that time period. I really do not expect FF's every other year but I do want us to beat UNC-CH more than they beat us.

Look, in my opinion K and Wooden are the 2 best college basketball coaches of all time. We have been blessed to have him. If he wants to coach the Olympic team again, and it appears to me that the idea is interesting to him, then so be it. He certainly deserves it. But Duke deserves a head coach running the basketball program that is not, "distracted."

I personally think that K without distractions is far better than a Roy without distractions and far far better than a Roy with distractions.

SoCal

[SilkyJ]

is living in the past and not facing the reality of the present.

In the last 5 years we have been to 0 Final Fours. UNC-CH has won 2 NCs.
My guess is that they have won more head to head games in that time period. I really do not expect FF's every other year but I do want us to beat UNC-CH more than they beat us.

Look, in my opinion K and Wooden are the 2 best college basketball coaches of all time. We have been blessed to have him. If he wants to coach the Olympic team again, and it appears to me that the idea is interesting to him, then so be it. He certainly deserves it. But Duke deserves a head coach running the basketball program that is not, "distracted."

I personally think that K without distractions is far better than a Roy without distractions and far far better than a Roy with distractions.

SoCal

Your post does absolutely nothing to respond to my post, so I'm not sure why you quoted it. I basically said that your attitude that we can't be UNC without some help is pathetic. You didn't repond.

I do not live in the past, but I am aware of it. Yes, Roy has won more championships than K in the last 5 years. In the 8 years before that, we beat UNC something like 14 out of 17. Ebbs and Flows.

[Stray Gator]

...Look, in my opinion K and Wooden are the 2 best college basketball coaches of all time. We have been blessed to have him. If he wants to coach the Olympic team again, and it appears to me that the idea is interesting to him, then so be it. He certainly deserves it. But Duke deserves a head coach running the basketball program that is not, "distracted."

I personally think that K without distractions is far better than a Roy without distractions and far far better than a Roy with distractions.

SoCal

Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on this issue, and you've now posted several times your view that Duke should replace Coach K if he decides to coach the U.S. Olympic Team again. And it appears that at least a few others here are inclined to agree with you. So just for the record, I'd like to express my disagreement with your position.

You say that "Duke deserves a head coach running the basketball program that is not, 'distracted.'" I believe our country's Olympic Team deserves the best head coach we can find; and K has already proved, in the minds of many, that he fills that need. I believe that for the enormous personal commitment and incalculable value he has given--and continues to give--to Duke basketball fans and to the larger Duke community, K deserves our enthusiastic support if he feels the duty and desire to lead the Olympic Team again. So I'm perfectly willing to "indulge" K this "distraction"--especially since coaching the Olympic Team, unlike a number of other "distractions" a coach might allow to siphon off a portion of his time and attention, does carry with it some incidental basketball-related benefits.

The very suggestion that Duke should replace Coach K is something I find difficult to comprehend. You indicated that you want a coach who will win the majority of games against UNC, and will make Final Four appearances on a regular basis. Presumably, you want a coach who will achieve those objectives while running a clean program that brings honor and respect to Duke University, that is populated by players who are true student-athletes, and that represents Duke in a manner that makes us proud. It's clear that you want a coach who will devote his unwavering time, attention, and passion to making Duke basketball the best that it can be. And to ensure that this level of success continues uninterrupted, you'd want a coach who makes the Duke job a lifetime commitment.

Sounds great. Have you got anybody in mind?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Your post does absolutely nothing to respond to my post, so I'm not sure why you quoted it. I basically said that your attitude that we can't be UNC without some help is pathetic. You didn't repond.

Well, SoCal did say:


I personally think that K without distractions is far better than a Roy without distractions and far far better than a Roy with distractions.

Which I took to be a direct reply. K is better than Roy (in SoCal's opinion) on an even playing field, but why not give K the additional advantage of taking away half of Roy's year when most recruiting gets done? Personally, I'm not sure K is significantly better than Roy (I'm not sure he isn't either, we've never had a chance to see them both at full strength while at Duke/UNC), and I'm entirely sure that I don't want Roy to have the honor of coaching the Olympic team and piggybacking on what K built. I'm also pretty certain that the boards would be better-served by leaving aside calling people "pathetic" and just talking about basketball.


I do not live in the past, but I am aware of it. Yes, Roy has won more championships than K in the last 5 years. In the 8 years before that, we beat UNC something like 14 out of 17. Ebbs and Flows.

I guess the heart of the debate is whether UNC's amazing run and Duke's relative fall from preeminence is just a matter of natural "ebb and flow" or if other factors are at work. The most obvious difference between the last 5-6 years and our high water mark earlier in the decade is the arrival of a really, really good coach at UNC (I'd pay big money for one of those "Doherty's Disciples" shirts today :D).

I'm inclined to place some of that on our major blunders with evaluation, recruiting, and team-building, which I think is tied to not having our best recruiter (heck, our entire staff), our trump card for "closing" a recruit, and our legendary motivator for most of the offseason. If you don't think that's a factor, no problem. Reasonable minds can differ. But K has been very open about how much time, even during the season, he spent and how very worn out he is already. It's not crazy to suggest that there is a direct cost to the team that signs his paychecks and the players that put their careers in his hands.

[sagegrouse]

Everyone is entitled to express their opinion on this issue, and you've now posted several times your view that Duke should replace Coach K if he decides to coach the U.S. Olympic Team again. And it appears that at least a few others here are inclined to agree with you. So just for the record, I'd like to express my disagreement with your position.

You say that "Duke deserves a head coach running the basketball program that is not, 'distracted.'" I believe our country's Olympic Team deserves the best head coach we can find; and K has already proved, in the minds of many, that he fills that need. I believe that for the enormous personal commitment and incalculable value he has given--and continues to give--to Duke basketball fans and to the larger Duke community, K deserves our enthusiastic support if he feels the duty and desire to lead the Olympic Team again. So I'm perfectly willing to "indulge" K this "distraction"--especially since coaching the Olympic Team, unlike a number of other "distractions" a coach might allow to siphon off a portion of his time and attention, does carry with it some incidental basketball-related benefits.

The very suggestion that Duke should replace Coach K is something I find difficult to comprehend. You indicated that you want a coach who will win the majority of games against UNC, and will make Final Four appearances on a regular basis. Presumably, you want a coach who will achieve those objectives while running a clean program that brings honor and respect to Duke University, that is populated by players who are true student-athletes, and that represents Duke in a manner that makes us proud. It's clear that you want a coach who will devote his unwavering time, attention, and passion to making Duke basketball the best that it can be. And to ensure that this level of success continues uninterrupted, you'd want a coach who makes the Duke job a lifetime commitment.

Sounds great. Have you got anybody in mind?

Amen. The petulance and foot-stamping on this subject is not exactly mature behavior IMHO (remember: the H is usually silent).

sagegrouse

[VaDukie]

K has earned the right to do whatever he wants, but I'd be far happier if he didn't do it again.

[SoCalDukeFan]

How much do you care about the USA in Olympic Basketball.

Frankly, if there was no Duke connection or a connection with a favorite player I would not care much at all. On my part I don't think that is a lack of patriotism but more a lack of real interest in the NBA and the players. If the team was all college players than I would care a lot.

Obviously Coach K cares a lot. I am sure others do.

This is not to start an article or debate. Just curious.

SoCal

[COYS]

How much do you care about the USA in Olympic Basketball.

Frankly, if there was no Duke connection or a connection with a favorite player I would not care much at all. On my part I don't think that is a lack of patriotism but more a lack of real interest in the NBA and the players. If the team was all college players than I would care a lot.

Obviously Coach K cares a lot. I am sure others do.

This is not to start an article or debate. Just curious.

SoCal

Personally, I would love to see Olympic basketball become more and more important in the United States. The World Cup for soccer is, in my opinion, the single most exciting sporting event in the world. There is nothing better than seeing the best players in the world competing for their countries with the whole world watching. I know that Olympic basketball will never reach that level, but it can at least move in that direction. The culture Coach K and the rest of the staff have cultivated has certainly increased the importance the United States places on Olympic basketball. As long as the United States takes it seriously, I think it will continue to be a very special sporting event and grow in popularity and importance. While part of me wants K to devote all of his time and effort on Duke basketball, I also completely understand his desire to see USA Basketball grow with him at the helm and look forward to seeing his vision come to fruition, whether he is the coach or not.

I'm not saying this to say that everyone SHOULD care about Olympic basketball. I understand why many people don't care. However, I do hope that the proportion of people who do care will increase over the next couple years. It's not long before the next Lebron is from somewhere outside the United States. There will be Olympics in the relatively near future where the US may not even be the hands down favorite.

[darkblue2769]

Would K's involvement in the Olympics in 2012 be affect Duke basketball? Yes.

Would it ruin the program? No.

Look at where Duke is, or, if you're one of those who fixates on the lack of final fours in the past 5 years saying that this is "Duke's downfall," just where Duke has been in the past 20 years. Dominant in the 90's, the winningest team in any decade in the 2000's (not yet, but counting games at the beginning of next season, I think we'll top the old record), 3 national championships, 9 ACC championships. I'm going to say this plain and simple- Duke would not be the Duke we know without Coach K. I think (hope) everyone recognizes this, but people seem to think that if Coach K has any other commitments, he's "neglecting" the Duke program (see the John Wall/Book tour issue for a non-Olympic example). Sure, they affect the program, but he isn't neglecting it by living a life that reaches beyond Duke basketball 24/7, and he is entitled to that. Plus, it's the Olympics, it's not like he's taking frequent vacations to Hawaii.

I cannot believe that people would suggest firing Coach K, the man who made Duke basketball what it is, just because he wants to coach the Olympic basketball team again. Have a little faith. Remember, K COULD have left to coach the Lakers, way back when. He didn't. He wanted to stay at Duke. The program was, and is, his primary concern.

If Coach K wants to coach in the Olympics again, so be it. We still have the best damn basketball coach we could ask for.

[SmartDevil]

Frankly, I thought the large investment of time K put into the long process of preparing for the Olympics might bring more dividends to Duke than perhaps it has.

I remember speculation about the Duke facilities becoming a place where NBA'ers might work out, hang out, etc. more.

And I remember speculation about the whole Olympic thing helping with recruiting results...which I'm not sure it has.

If K does decide to be the Olympic coach again, how can the benefits to Duke be maximized?

[heyman25]

Coach K can do what he wants. If he wants Duke to make it to a Final 4 the Duke coaching staff needs major improvements in talent evaluation.Playing next season with 3 guards was a recruiting blunder.Not getting strong interior players to help Kyle was once again poor talent evaluation.I hope the Plumlees, Kelly, Thomas and Zoubek can really elevate their games. I hope I get to eat crow.Having no backup plans to recruiting misses was another flaw from the Coaching staff.If Duke can shoot better and keep turnovers to a minimum next year could be a nice surprise. However the roster we have has to execute flawlessly in the NCAA Tourney to get to a Final 4. We will be slow and quick point guards are going to blow by Duke defenders.

Coach K has given Duke a great run,but unless we get a talent upgrade with Barnes and Irving or Knight or McCallum, Duke's destiny will be sweet 16 for years to come.

[SupaDave]

Coach K has given Duke a great run,but unless we get a talent upgrade with Barnes and Irving or Knight or McCallum, Duke's destiny will be sweet 16 for years to come.

Wow. Just imagine how horrible our lives will be...

[El_Diablo]

This article touches on (among other things) Coach K's upcoming decision on the Olympics:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/richard_deitsch/06/22/media.circus/index.html

It suggests he is leaning towards staying on as coach, but it's 100% speculative.

[SoCalDukeFan]

is the discussion that in his mid 60s K might do something other than coach Duke basketball.

SoCal

[RockyMtDevil]

USA or Duke. Pick one and move on. We can't afford another 4 years of pathetic recruiting. For everyone who said it was a great thing for Duke that K is/was the Team USA coach, man you were dead, dead wrong. This has killed the program over the last three years. Oh, add one more based on next years non-guard roster. Maybe we can appeal to play in the "over 6' 8" league next year where you can field a team of post players only.

[geraldsneighbor]

But in all seriousness, how he doesn't have ONE guard signed for 2009 is unfathomable to me. He had to have known there was a damn good chance of losing at least two (G to the pros and Marty). Now we are sorta screwed if you ask me.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

USA or Duke. Pick one and move on. We can't afford another 4 years of pathetic recruiting. For everyone who said it was a great thing for Duke that K is/was the Team USA coach, man you were dead, dead wrong. This has killed the program over the last three years. Oh, add one more based on next years non-guard roster. Maybe we can appeal to play in the "over 6' 8" league next year where you can field a team of post players only.

That's crazy-talk. Look at the way top-flight recruits have been lining up to play for the Olympic coach. John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, Patrick Patterson, et al were so in awe of that shiny gold medal that they had no choice but to commit on the spot. Some folks argue it's all the deep NCAA runs and ACC domination (poor UNC, whatever happened to them anyway?), but we know it's the medals.

Still, it has been really impressive how K has still put his players first. Some folks suggested he go back for another run, but he quickly said "No, these kids have put their careers in my hands and I would never put personal glory ahead of their well-being. Building a relationship with the kids I recruit has to come well before any silly incidentals like book promotions or filming commercials."

And of course Duke is more beloved and respected than ever. The cache of Olympic gold made the media just fall all over themselves to praise K and the program he has made sure to keep well-stocked and well-regarded among fans, opposing coaches, and the public at large. The Olympics have been nothing but good news for the school and program that sign K'spaychecks, I just don't understand why some people have to be so negative all the time? :confused:

[RockyMtDevil]

Tongue in cheek I hope?

[ice-9]

C'mon guys, give the man a break. Who could've foreseen this situation? Even the collective minds at DBR didn't see this coming. Sure, DBR may just be a hobby for most of us, but add it all up and it's a lot of hours spent thinking about Duke basektball and NO ONE forecasted this team having only two guards.

[Chicago 1995]

C'mon guys, give the man a break. Who could've foreseen this situation? Even the collective minds at DBR didn't see this coming. Sure, DBR may just be a hobby for most of us, but add it all up and it's a lot of hours spent thinking about Duke basektball and NO ONE forecasted this team having only two guards.

No one forecasted this team having only two guards?

Maybe not for a full season, but once it became pretty clear that G was headed to the league, there have been a *lot* of people who were worried that we were a twisted ankle, knock on the head or bout of mono away from having two guards.

Heck, knowing of G's interest in the NBA, it became a problem back when Kenny Boynton spurned us for UF. At that point, it became at least possible we'd have only three guards for the upcoming season -- Eliot, Jon and Nolan.

Once you are at three players for two positions, that it could become two for two is pretty obvious, especially given Nolan's injury history.

That we'd be in this situation (at least temporarily) was completely foreseeable.

[NSDukeFan]

No one forecasted this team having only two guards?

Maybe not for a full season, but once it became pretty clear that G was headed to the league, there have been a *lot* of people who were worried that we were a twisted ankle, knock on the head or bout of mono away from having two guards.

Heck, knowing of G's interest in the NBA, it became a problem back when Kenny Boynton spurned us for UF. At that point, it became at least possible we'd have only three guards for the upcoming season -- Eliot, Jon and Nolan.

Once you are at three players for two positions, that it could become two for two is pretty obvious, especially given Nolan's injury history.

That we'd be in this situation (at least temporarily) was completely foreseeable.

Maybe we should have recruited a point guard then. Oh yeah, we did, and were one of his final choices. K would probably have predicted this if he hadn't been the Olympic coach? ;) I'm not sure you can prepare for all potential outcomes. It will make for an interesting change in playing styles compared to last year. This may also give more of a chance for the freshmen, MP1 and Olek to make an impact this year, as it seems there are an extra 30 minutes to share.

[Chicago 1995]

Maybe we should have recruited a point guard then. Oh yeah, we did, and were one of his final choices. K would probably have predicted this if he hadn't been the Olympic coach? ;) I'm not sure you can prepare for all potential outcomes. It will make for an interesting change in playing styles compared to last year. This may also give more of a chance for the freshmen, MP1 and Olek to make an impact this year, as it seems there are an extra 30 minutes to share.

Being one of Wall's final choices isn't going to help much if Scheyer's in foul trouble or Nolan gets the flu. Wall was never a sure thing, and that clearly wasn't enough to address the lack of guard depth on the team.

[Matches]

C'mon guys, give the man a break. Who could've foreseen this situation? Even the collective minds at DBR didn't see this coming. Sure, DBR may just be a hobby for most of us, but add it all up and it's a lot of hours spent thinking about Duke basektball and NO ONE forecasted this team having only two guards.

The specific situation with Elliot wasn't foreseeable.

The notion that *something* would happen to one of the three guards on our roster (injury, illness, transfer, foul trouble etc.) was completely foreseeable, and was *actually* foreseen by many here.

Worrying about the team only having two guards is a waste at this point, because that's the situation. K will try and make the best of it - he has no choice.

Now the worry is that, if there is an injury, illness or foul trouble (two of which happened to Nolan last year), we will be down to ONE guard.

[Oriole Way]

C'mon guys, give the man a break. Who could've foreseen this situation? Even the collective minds at DBR didn't see this coming. Sure, DBR may just be a hobby for most of us, but add it all up and it's a lot of hours spent thinking about Duke basektball and NO ONE forecasted this team having only two guards.

I actually think it was pretty easy for Coack K to realize Greg Paulus wasn't going to pan out as a point guard as early as two full seasons ago. I can't believe he didn't have a backup plan at guard when we whiffed on Kenny Boynton, especially considering we've missed on so many key recruits recently.

I know Duke will go on, and I know I don't matter as just one fan, but as a die-hard Duke fan, I will be very upset if Coach K coaches the Olympic team again. Team USA will still have a great shot to win gold medals with any one of several other qualified coaches. The talent on the roster and the newfound commitment that several of the players now have will make more of a difference than Coach K's presense, or lack thereof, will.

Almost 30 years ago, Duke University signed him to a contract to coach the Duke University men's basketball team. That is still his job description, and he should honor it. He wouldn't be where he is without Duke, and I hope he remembers that, because the team needs his full attention now more than ever.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I actually think it was pretty easy for Coack K to realize Greg Paulus wasn't going to pan out as a point guard as early as two full seasons ago. I can't believe he didn't have a backup plan at guard when we whiffed on Kenny Boynton, especially considering we've missed on so many key recruits recently.

I know Duke will go on, and I know I don't matter as just one fan, but as a die-hard Duke fan, I will be very upset if Coach K coaches the Olympic team again. Team USA will still have a great shot to win gold medals with any one of several other qualified coaches. The talent on the roster and the newfound commitment that several of the players now have will make more of a difference than Coach K's presense, or lack thereof, will.

Almost 30 years ago, Duke University signed him to a contract to coach the Duke University men's basketball team. That is still his job description, and he should honor it. He wouldn't be where he is without Duke, and I hope he remembers that, because the team needs his full attention now more than ever.

QFT.

In 2004 it would have been almost impossible to imagine that Duke would struggle to reach the Sweet 16 (at best) every few years and not be a serious player on the national stage for several years running.

Today it's crystal clear that 50% of a coach, even a great coach like K, is simply not sufficient. Duke took a very, very tough one for the "team" and got absolutely nothing in return. With full knowledge of the cost, it's simply unreasonable to expect the program to sign multi-million dollar checks or for players to risk their dreams and careers if all parties aren't fully committed.

[6th Man]

Things are certainly not well with Duke basketball right now. I think it is time to send Coach K back to the slums to train with Apollo Creed to regain the "Eye of the Tiger". I know Coach K has done remarkable and historic things at Duke. At some point though, especially considering the current state of the basketball program...you have to think maybe it is time to forget the Olympic Team, forget the books, forget the book signing tours, forget the XM radio, and forget the Corporate speeches. Save it for life after you quit coaching. It may be time to focus on Duke.

Sorry for the corny Rocky comparison. It just makes me think though...Coach K was a hungry young Coach that worked his butt off to make a name for Duke and for himself. He wanted to reign supreme over Dean Smith. Now he is the King of the ACC. It seems that the success has taken Coach in too many different directions.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Things are certainly not well with Duke basketball right now. I think it is time to send Coach K back to the slums to train with Apollo Creed to regain the "Eye of the Tiger". I know Coach K has done remarkable and historic things at Duke. At some point though, especially considering the current state of the basketball program...you have to think maybe it is time to forget the Olympic Team, forget the books, forget the book signing tours, forget the XM radio, and forget the Corporate speeches. Save it for life after you quit coaching. It may be time to focus on Duke.

Sorry for the corny Rocky comparison. It just makes me think though...Coach K was a hungry young Coach that worked his butt off to make a name for Duke and for himself. He wanted to reign supreme over Dean Smith. Now he is the King of the ACC. It seems that the success has taken Coach in too many different directions.

In the spirit of K's (generally successful) motivational ploy of taking away his players' amenities (locker room, etc.) and forcing them to "earn them back" because they had become too complacent I was (sort of) joking with one of my friends that someone should sneak into K's ivory tower and take down all the plaques and such. Spreading himself too thin cost K his health (and almost his marriage) 15 years ago. Maybe this is another tough reminder to refocus on his real priorities.

[SupaDave]

Being one of Wall's final choices isn't going to help much if Scheyer's in foul trouble or Nolan gets the flu. Wall was never a sure thing, and that clearly wasn't enough to address the lack of guard depth on the team.

And just WHO was a sure thing. If you haven't noticed, the high school talent at guard has been a bit thin the past few years. God, I wish some of you would get your freaking heads out of the sand. Brandon Jennings, #1 guard in 2008, went to Europe and we never had a chance or desired Tyreke Evans or Derrick Rose. Kenny Boynton would have helped but he kinda liked the state of Florida - not much you can do there when your whole family is walking around wearing Florida gym shorts...

We'll be short manned this year at guard but oh well. We'll still suit up and we'll still play hard - which is why I love Duke Basketball. There will be no excuses from the coaching staff for sure.

[SupaDave]

In the spirit of K's (generally successful) motivational ploy of taking away his players' amenities (locker room, etc.) and forcing them to "earn them back" because they had become too complacent I was (sort of) joking with one of my friends that someone should sneak into K's ivory tower and take down all the plaques and such. Spreading himself too thin cost K his health (and almost his marriage) 15 years ago. Maybe this is another tough reminder to refocus on his real priorities.

And just WHAT are his real priorities?

[SupaDave]

QFT.

In 2004 it would have been almost impossible to imagine that Duke would struggle to reach the Sweet 16 (at best) every few years and not be a serious player on the national stage for several years running.

Today it's crystal clear that 50% of a coach, even a great coach like K, is simply not sufficient. Duke took a very, very tough one for the "team" and got absolutely nothing in return. With full knowledge of the cost, it's simply unreasonable to expect the program to sign multi-million dollar checks or for players to risk their dreams and careers if all parties aren't fully committed.

You know he is STILL the current coach of the Olympic team and he's a better coach for it all. And well he just HAPPENS to be putting together one of his greatest recruiting classes in some time - yeah - he's washed up, fire the bum.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

And just WHAT are his real priorities?

After family and friends, the program that signs his multi-million dollar paychecks and the teenage kids who put their future in his hands.


You know he is STILL the current coach of the Olympic team and he's a better coach for it all. And well he just HAPPENS to be putting together one of his greatest recruiting classes in some time - yeah - he's washed up, fire the bum.

We keep hearing that K is a better coach and will get a major recruiting boost for the Olympic experience, but we keep not seeing any evidence of this on the court.

As for the class of 2010, I'm tired of counting chickens before they hatch. Wright, PPAt, and Boynton were all considered just as much "locks" to come to Duke as Barnes, and we're not considered the leader for either Knight or Irving. If K puts together a great class in line with The Killer B's or the JWill/Boozer/Dun class then we'll know that our recruiting has recovered from the damage done by the Olympics. The next time I hear a recruit say "I wasn't considering Duke, but the Olympics made me change my mind" will be the first.

[jimsumner]

"John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, Patrick Patterson, et al were so in awe of that shiny gold medal that they had no choice but to commit on the spot"

Say what? Patrick Patterson signed with Kentucky a full 16 months before K got that shiny gold medal. Bledsoe was never a viable option for Duke and Wall was a special case for several reasons.

Maybe Ryan Kelly and Seth Curry were impressed by that shiny gold medal. Maybe not. But folks who follow this stuff understood that the Olympic bump would come from the classes of 2010, 2011, 2012 and so forth. Look at how many top players Duke is involved in.

The fact is we won't know for sure until two or three years down the road. But listing Patterson in the context of this discussion makes absolutely no sense.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

"John Wall, Eric Bledsoe, Patrick Patterson, et al were so in awe of that shiny gold medal that they had no choice but to commit on the spot"

Say what? Patrick Patterson signed with Kentucky a full 16 months before K got that shiny gold medal. Bledsoe was never a viable option for Duke and Wall was a special case for several reasons.

Maybe Ryan Kelly and Seth Curry were impressed by that shiny gold medal. Maybe not. But folks who follow this stuff understood that the Olympic bump would come from the classes of 2010, 2011, 2012 and so forth. Look at how many top players Duke is involved in.

The fact is we won't know for sure until two or three years down the road. But listing Patterson in the context of this discussion makes absolutely no sense.

But we were already landing top players long before the Olympics even entered the picture. How is landing Barnes any different than landing Brand or JWill or Joey Beard?

And a lot of folks were promising immediate returns on the now-obvious costs of losing K for 4 seasons. Maybe "folks who follow stuff" knew that we would see nothing but regression from 2004-2009, but that wasn't the prevailing argument, as I recall it. The argument was that being the Olympic coach would pay dividends because K could trumpet all his experience with NBA superstars. Then, the argument went, winning a gold would redouble the gains.

The problem with this argument, of course, was that we were already the hottest recruiting power going. We were fresh off the Selected Six and Deng with McBob/Greg etc on the horizon. There just wasn't very far up for us to go.

Now, two years after the Olympics have (hopefully) returned our coach there can be no argument that we've taken a major short-term hit. The only question is whether we can climb back up to the place we were pre-2004.

[MChambers]

But we were already landing top players long before the Olympics even entered the picture. How is landing Barnes any different than landing Brand or JWill or Joey Beard?

And a lot of folks were promising immediate returns on the now-obvious costs of losing K for 4 seasons. Maybe "folks who follow stuff" knew that we would see nothing but regression from 2004-2009, but that wasn't the prevailing argument, as I recall it. The argument was that being the Olympic coach would pay dividends because K could trumpet all his experience with NBA superstars. Then, the argument went, winning a gold would redouble the gains.

The problem with this argument, of course, was that we were already the hottest recruiting power going. We were fresh off the Selected Six and Deng with McBob/Greg etc on the horizon. There just wasn't very far up for us to go.

Now, two years after the Olympics have (hopefully) returned our coach there can be no argument that we've taken a major short-term hit. The only question is whether we can climb back up to the place we were pre-2004.

Duke has always had some recruiting misses. In other threads, Jim and Al Featherstone have detailed this.

Some of the posters here, however, have fallen into the logical fallacy of assuming that Coach K's Olympic activities have hurt Duke's recruiting. Maybe, maybe not. No way to be sure.

What if Coach K had NOT been the Olympic coach and had missed on Wall, Boynton, etc.? Wouldn't Duke look even worse?

I'm proud to have Coach K be the Olympic coach again, if that is what he wants. He's earned it. I don't think it will hurt recruiting, but if it does, I'll live with that.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Duke has always had some recruiting misses. In other threads, Jim and Al Featherstone have detailed this.

Some of the posters here, however, have fallen into the logical fallacy of assuming that Coach K's Olympic activities have hurt Duke's recruiting. Maybe, maybe not. No way to be sure.

What if Coach K had NOT been the Olympic coach and had missed on Wall, Boynton, etc.? Wouldn't Duke look even worse?

I'm proud to have Coach K be the Olympic coach again, if that is what he wants. He's earned it. I don't think it will hurt recruiting, but if it does, I'll live with that.

There are certainly a lot of variables at play in the tremendous change in our recruiting pre- and post- 2004. But it's hardly illogical to suggest that having K and the entire staff away from recruiting for so much of the year (and K has been very open about how much time he spend working on and thinking about the Olympic team even when he wasn't actually at practice/games) played an important role.

That said, my point that a great haul in 2010 is no evidence that the Olympics helped recruiting (since we were already in the middle of an amazing run before he started) still stands. There no evidence that the Olympics helped in the short run (and at least some that they hurt). In the long run our best-case scenario seems to be a return to what we already had before. As I said earlier, the next time I hear a recruit say "I wasn't interested in Duke until the Olympics, now I'm signing up" will be the first.

[ice-9]

I think Coach K DID try to get more PG talent -- he just wasn't successful and hadn't cast the net very wide. But I do think he's changed his recruiting tactics in response to that; note how we're targeting several players for the same position in the 2010 class.

I dunno. It's easy to look back and say "Why didn't we foresee a two guard situation?" because hindsight is 20/20. But Coach K did try to get more guards and wasn't successful -- should we have compromised our standards and gone all out to get a marginal prospect in case two of our four guards transferred or decided to play pro overseas? Some people already think going after Wall was too much.

The coaching staff could've avoided this sure, but their actions were not unreasonable or grossly incompetent. Crap happens. Let's cut them some slack.

[NSDukeFan]

I just thought I would take a look to see how K's recruiting has compared to others lately, using http://rscihoops.com/ as the aggregate of recruiting rankings. It indicates to me that if we want to replace K with someone who will dedicate more time and be a better recruiter, we're going to have a tough time.

The only 2 schools ranked as having a top recruiting class (I included honorable mention to list 15-20 schools each year) each of the last 5 years are...

Kansas and Duke

Duke had:
2009 - 8th ranked class
2008 - 11th ranked class
2007 - 3rd ranked class
2006 - 3rd ranked class
2005 - 2nd ranked class

Kansas had:
2009 - 4th ranked class
2008 - 9th ranked class
2007 - 16th ranked class
2006 - 10th ranked class
2005 - 1st ranked class

Unfortunately, I would say that UNC has done better lately with the 2nd ranked classes in 09 and 08, not ranked for 07 and #1 for 06 and #3 for 05.

You could also argue Calipari has done better as he has the top ranked class for 09, Memphis had #3 in 08, #7 in 07, not ranked for 06 and #6 for 05.

Other schools worth mentioning include:
Florida 9th this year, 5th in 08 and 2nd in 07, NR 05 and 06.
UCLA 10th in 09, 5th in 08, 13th in 07, NR 05 and 06
Nova 3rd in 09, 12th in 07
Texas 5th in 09, 19th in 07, 5th in 06
UConn 12th in 09, 18th in 08 and 4th in 06
Ohio St. 4th in 08, 5th in 07, 2nd in 06
Georgetown 4th in 08, 5th in 07 and 12th in 06

I may have missed some, but it seems to me K has done OK while coaching the Olympics and hopefully is also learning from coaching the pros and coaching with some other excellent coaches.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

A couple of points in the recruiting discussion.

a) The Class of ___ is not generally an indication of how well we recruited that year, but rather how well we recruited in the 1-2 years before (when contacts are built, players verbal, etc.) Most of the groundwork for the big class of 2005, for example, was done well before those guys showed up in the fall of '05. As such, the relevant period for evaluating how we recruited during the Olympics is around 2006-2009 or so with the most pronounced effects showing up as a cumulative effect of increasing time away from camps, meetings, etc. A trend of 3, 3, 11, 8 is directly in line with what you would expect the harm to be.

b) Recruiting should also be viewed in light of where we were before the Olympics began. If we had never pulled in a top 10 class and suddenly had a string of 3, 3, 11, 8 that would be a clear bump and the Olympics would seem to be an advantage. Obviously the numbers are skewed by K's big/small class strategy, but our run from 1997-2005 was pretty historic. That same run of 3, 3, 11, 8 is a clear step down from big classes of Killer B's, JWill, Selected 6 peppered with Duhon, Deng, etc.

c) As others have noted, even if we brought in the #1 class every year we still have to use and develop that talent. There's an argument that we're still bringing in very good talent (even if not quite what we were earlier) and the real issue is development. We've brought in an unsettling number of 5 star guys (McBob, Greg, Lance) who didn't do much and 4 star guys (Z, Marty) who completely disappeared. Throw in a very high number of transfers and it's hard to shake the feeling that guys are either coming here when they don't fit well or they are finding a place where they aren't comfortable or improving. Whether you call that "evaluation", "recruiting" or "development" is, to my mind, incidental. We've been consistently and increasingly undermanned, especially compared to where we were pre-2005.

[NSDukeFan]

A couple of points in the recruiting discussion.

a) The Class of ___ is not generally an indication of how well we recruited that year, but rather how well we recruited in the 1-2 years before (when contacts are built, players verbal, etc.) Most of the groundwork for the big class of 2005, for example, was done well before those guys showed up in the fall of '05. As such, the relevant period for evaluating how we recruited during the Olympics is around 2006-2009 or so with the most pronounced effects showing up as a cumulative effect of increasing time away from camps, meetings, etc. A trend of 3, 3, 11, 8 is directly in line with what you would expect the harm to be.

b) Recruiting should also be viewed in light of where we were before the Olympics began. If we had never pulled in a top 10 class and suddenly had a string of 3, 3, 11, 8 that would be a clear bump and the Olympics would seem to be an advantage. Obviously the numbers are skewed by K's big/small class strategy, but our run from 1997-2005 was pretty historic. That same run of 3, 3, 11, 8 is a clear step down from big classes of Killer B's, JWill, Selected 6 peppered with Duhon, Deng, etc.

c) As others have noted, even if we brought in the #1 class every year we still have to use and develop that talent. There's an argument that we're still bringing in very good talent (even if not quite what we were earlier) and the real issue is development. We've brought in an unsettling number of 5 star guys (McBob, Greg, Lance) who didn't do much and 4 star guys (Z, Marty) who completely disappeared. Throw in a very high number of transfers and it's hard to shake the feeling that guys are either coming here when they don't fit well or they are finding a place where they aren't comfortable or improving. Whether you call that "evaluation", "recruiting" or "development" is, to my mind, incidental. We've been consistently and increasingly undermanned, especially compared to where we were pre-2005.

I agree that a particular year would be an indication of the year or two beforehand, but a top 11 class every single year is an indication of harm? Keep also in mind that if we get nobody else for next year we will still have a top 7 or 8 class.

True, Duke had 2 or 3 number 1 classes, with the other classes not ranked as we had the big year, followed by smaller classes. I would argue having a top 11 class every year is not that much of a drop from a #1 class one year and 2 years of unranked classes, though it is a drop. Like you say that was historic and I don't know if Olympics or no Olympics, that kind of success can be repeated.
Duke did not have as good a stretch from 2005 to now as 98-02 but I think that was a pretty spectacular run that will hopefully be achieved again. I just don't think we can expect to always have runs like that and to be consistently getting top 10 recruiting classes and being ranked in the top 25 while things are not going as planned is pretty good.

I also think your discussion about not developing guys has some merit. I also think some of it is luck of the draw in terms of how guys turn out (see higher ranked McRoberts vs. lower ranked Hansborough) or situations outside the program's control (one example being injuries, though every program deals with them).

Hopefully, we will see a boost in recruiting in the next few years as kids realize that they would like to play for that guy who did such a great job coaching Kobe, LeBron, etc. and instead of being a consistent top 10-20 team, we will get a few more final four runs.

[4xduke]

From today's Gainesville Sun:

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090627/ARTICLES/906279906/1136/SPORTS?Title=Boynton-s-great-expectations

"Early in the recruiting process, Boynton admitted he was leaning toward Duke. But Florida coach Billy Donovan seized on an opportunity last summer when Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski was preparing Team USA to its eventual gold medal finish in the 2008 Olympics. Donovan and assistant coach Rob Lanier attended every one of Boynton’s summer league games last July.

“If Billy Donovan didn’t make it, Rob Lanier would be there,” Boynton said. “It showed me how much of an interest they had in me. Some of the other schools, they probably missed some games, probably because they were recruiting other players, but I was their No. 1 recruit.”

[SupaDave]

From today's Gainesville Sun:

http://www.gainesville.com/article/20090627/ARTICLES/906279906/1136/SPORTS?Title=Boynton-s-great-expectations

"Early in the recruiting process, Boynton admitted he was leaning toward Duke. But Florida coach Billy Donovan seized on an opportunity last summer when Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski was preparing Team USA to its eventual gold medal finish in the 2008 Olympics. Donovan and assistant coach Rob Lanier attended every one of Boynton’s summer league games last July.

“If Billy Donovan didn’t make it, Rob Lanier would be there,” Boynton said. “It showed me how much of an interest they had in me. Some of the other schools, they probably missed some games, probably because they were recruiting other players, but I was their No. 1 recruit.”

This is situation where the whole family wanted him to stay in Florida and Donovan stepped up to the plate. I wouldn't call this a Coach K miss for sure. Duke Basketball is a program where you are groomed to be a MAN. If you would like to be coddled then perhaps you do need another program.

There's a reason we recruit certain kids and why they turn out the way the do. It's also the very same reason our talent pool is smaller than others.

Trust me, there are a lot of highly athletic and skilled players out there but many of them simply just want to play basketball. It's very hard to find the Laettners, Battiers and Harrison Barnes' of the world. They are few and far between.

[cspan37421]

I don't recall what responsibilities Wojo and Collins had last summer (thought they might have accompanied K to Beijing as 2nd-tier assistants?), but if a recruit thinks that K and his staff have a greater duty (in July) to watch him play summer ball than to guide the US Men's National Team in the Olympics, the kid does not have an outlook that is going to fit with the Duke program anyway.

I admit I don't know much about the recruiting game, but it seems to me that there's a difference between attending games of HS-ers to evaluate talent and attending to show interest. If this kid picked a school based on how much the school fawned over him, again, Duke is probably not the right program. I think you can show genuine sincere interest without kissing a** and licking boots. I hope so, anyway.

[COYS]

I don't recall what responsibilities Wojo and Collins had last summer (thought they might have accompanied K to Beijing as 2nd-tier assistants?), but if a recruit thinks that K and his staff have a greater duty (in July) to watch him play summer ball than to guide the US Men's National Team in the Olympics, the kid does not have an outlook that is going to fit with the Duke program anyway.

I admit I don't know much about the recruiting game, but it seems to me that there's a difference between attending games of HS-ers to evaluate talent and attending to show interest. If this kid picked a school based on how much the school fawned over him, again, Duke is probably not the right program. I think you can show genuine sincere interest without kissing a** and licking boots. I hope so, anyway.

I think this is a very intelligent post. I think the Boynton's comments would have been more disturbing if they had been something like "I really liked Duke and wanted to go there, but I just didn't feel comfortable having so little contact with the coaching staff for such a long period of time." However, in this case, Boynton just doesn't seem to have any perspective on the situation. What's more beneficial to him in the long term? Billy D sitting and watching games in high school gyms or Coach K coaching the best of the best from the NBA to gold in the Olympics, forging stronger connections with the NBA and develop a greater understanding of the game? This is no knock on Boynton or Billy D, but I do think that if a recruit is going to feel unwanted simply because a coach is off coaching his country's national team in the sports biggest international tournament, he may not end up being the best fit in the program, anyway.

[ice-9]

You guys seem to forget that Boynton is just a kid. We all want to feel loved, but teenagers especially more so. :)

[WhiteboardGuy]

I don't recall what responsibilities Wojo and Collins had last summer (thought they might have accompanied K to Beijing as 2nd-tier assistants?), but if a recruit thinks that K and his staff have a greater duty (in July) to watch him play summer ball than to guide the US Men's National Team in the Olympics, the kid does not have an outlook that is going to fit with the Duke program anyway.

I admit I don't know much about the recruiting game, but it seems to me that there's a difference between attending games of HS-ers to evaluate talent and attending to show interest. If this kid picked a school based on how much the school fawned over him, again, Duke is probably not the right program. I think you can show genuine sincere interest without kissing a** and licking boots. I hope so, anyway.


I think this is a very intelligent post. I think the Boynton's comments would have been more disturbing if they had been something like "I really liked Duke and wanted to go there, but I just didn't feel comfortable having so little contact with the coaching staff for such a long period of time." However, in this case, Boynton just doesn't seem to have any perspective on the situation. What's more beneficial to him in the long term? Billy D sitting and watching games in high school gyms or Coach K coaching the best of the best from the NBA to gold in the Olympics, forging stronger connections with the NBA and develop a greater understanding of the game? This is no knock on Boynton or Billy D, but I do think that if a recruit is going to feel unwanted simply because a coach is off coaching his country's national team in the sports biggest international tournament, he may not end up being the best fit in the program, anyway.

I'm sorry, but Boynton's quote shows once again that Kryzyzewski made a mistake by bringing Wojo and Collins with him to Beijing. It's patriotic and an honor to work for the national team, but it's not a mandatory duty. We're talking about a basketball team here, not a State Department envoy. With K absent, Duke basketball, as Wojo and Collins' employer, should have been their only priority over the last few summers. Rather than being "2nd-tier" assistants to a group of NBA players they would have no direct relationship with past August 08, Wojo and Collins needed to be first tier coaches and ambassadors to the incoming classes of high school players that Duke needs in order to be successful through 2010 and beyond.

If Duke wanted Boynton, and I don't know why they would have recruited him if they didn't, Wojo and Collins should have actively been in those high-school gyms COYS disparaged instead of sitting passively in the stands in China. K himself didn't need to be at every one of Boynton's games (Boynton said Donovan wasn't at all of them), but just as Rob Lanier was there for Florida, SOMEONE from the Duke program needed to be there for Duke. jyuwono was spot on--it's not a suck up thing, it's the fact that people are more inclined to join a program or organization that is showing interest in them, that explicitly make it clear through their actions and their words that they want them as part of their team.

It's not like Florida is a desperate program. Something as simple and easy as sitting in on all of Boynton's summer ball games, an act that couldn't have been more than 10 hours of extra "work", made enough of an impact on him to nudge him away from going to Duke. We were initially his top choice, but because our resources were taxed we created a bad impression and couldn't close the deal. It's all about going the extra mile and understanding what each kid wants, which you can't do when your assistants are busy taking pictures on the Great Wall of China.

[roywhite]

I'm sorry, but Boynton's quote shows once again that Kryzyzewski made a mistake by bringing Wojo and Collins with him to Beijing. It's patriotic and an honor to work for the national team, but it's not a mandatory duty. We're talking about a basketball team here, not a State Department envoy. With K absent, Duke basketball, as Wojo and Collins' employer, should have been their only priority over the last few summers. Rather than being "2nd-tier" assistants to a group of NBA players they would have no direct relationship with past August 08, Wojo and Collins needed to be first tier coaches and ambassadors to the incoming classes of high school players that Duke needs in order to be successful through 2010 and beyond.

If Duke wanted Boynton, and I don't know why they would have recruited him if they didn't, Wojo and Collins should have actively been in those high-school gyms COYS disparaged instead of sitting passively in the stands in China. K himself didn't need to be at every one of Boynton's games (Boynton said Donovan wasn't at all of them), but just as Rob Lanier was there for Florida, SOMEONE from the Duke program needed to be there for Duke. jyuwono was spot on--it's not a suck up thing, it's the fact that people are more inclined to join a program or organization that is showing interest in them, that explicitly make it clear through their actions and their words that they want them as part of their team.

It's not like Florida is a desperate program. Something as simple and easy as sitting in on all of Boynton's summer ball games, an act that couldn't have been more than 10 hours of extra "work", made enough of an impact on him to nudge him away from going to Duke. We were initially his top choice, but because our resources were taxed we created a bad impression and couldn't close the deal. It's all about going the extra mile and understanding what each kid wants, which you can't do when your assistants are busy taking pictures on the Great Wall of China.

Next play. Please.

What is the remedy for Coach K's supposed neglect of the program? Replace him? Come on.

Interestingly enough, we failed to get Boynton but ended up with Seth Curry, who may very well be a better player (selectors for the U-19 team thought so).

[COYS]

If Duke wanted Boynton, and I don't know why they would have recruited him if they didn't, Wojo and Collins should have actively been in those high-school gyms COYS disparaged instead of sitting passively in the stands in China. K himself didn't need to be at every one of Boynton's games (Boynton said Donovan wasn't at all of them), but just as Rob Lanier was there for Florida, SOMEONE from the Duke program needed to be there for Duke.

I didn't disparage high school gyms, I just said that I would consider coaching the Olympic team a worthy reason NOT to be in a high school gym. Also, I give Boynton his due for wanting to go with a school he felt most comfortable with. I'm just pointing out that his quotes make it sound like he wanted to be wanted the most. We know from that detailed ESPN article in which Boynton is interviewed after his home visits from both coaches that K let Boynton know he was wanted at Duke and would be the engine behind the offense as Jason Williams was. This is of course in addition to his informal visit to campus and lots of other contact K and the staff had with him, including text messages and a call from China. My point is basically that the staff may have miscalculated in deciding to go to China as a unit, but it was a reasonable miscalculation if you even want to call it that and the staff did nothing at all to scare Boynton off. He had a three-time champion coach that he knew wanted him and wanted to feature him in a high powered offense who also happened to be coaching the best players in the NBA. He also had a coach from his home state of Florida who has also won two national titles and who came to a lot of his basketball games. He chose to stay close to home. Replace coach K? Blame the Olympics for everything? Or just move on to the next recruit who may have more appreciation for the Olympics thing? No knock on Boynton for not considering the Olympics a positive. I certainly don't mind too much of a 17-18 year old kid decides to go with a coach who was around most of the summer. However, I just don't think these are especially damaging comments. Maybe if K does decide to coach the national team again, he'll leave some of the staff at home. That's about the only thing that could be gathered from this quote, IMHO.

[WhiteboardGuy]

Maybe if K does decide to coach the national team again, he'll leave some of the staff at home. That's about the only thing that could be gathered from this quote, IMHO.

That's the only thing I'm trying to say as well. I'm not opposed to K going back for another shot at the gold in 2010/2012, he just needs to have a separate Team USA staff than Duke basketball staff.

[-jk]

Without getting into some of the finely nuanced discussions going on here, I'd just like to toss out a few thoughts:

Recruits are kids. 17, 18, 19 - but kids. Not an age where they necessarily speak forthrightly where it may be embarrassing. They sometimes latch onto the easy way out rather than say what they really feel. (c.f., Ron Curry)

K has said for decades that he want players who can be part of something bigger than themselves. Not every recruit can set his ego aside and commit to that. (c.f. Kris Humphries)And not every recruit can admit that they can't commit to that. Take what they say - or are reported to have said - with a grain of salt.

The expected workload for a Duke athlete is considerable, and considerably higher than many other options they might have elsewhere. Duke offers a fabulous experience, but it's certainly not for everyone. Or even most of 'em.

Lastly, who's to say our assistants aren't becoming much better coaches for their international experience? If a kid's ego needs so much stroking as to eliminate a coach in the Olympics, I'm not sure he'd be a good fit when push comes to shove for playing time.

I still want Duke to strive to be the best it can be, but I more want Duke - regardless of the coach - to continue to uphold high standards, even if it means we go a few more years between final fours. If we lose a few fans along the way, well we've been there before. And I dare say will be again.

-jk

[ice-9]

I agree with the spirit of your post, but there is one thing I do want to point out...

Duke is not a natural college basketball destination. If it wasn't for Coach K, Duke would strugge to get top tier recruits given its academic demands. It's also not as if Duke is located in hotspots like New York, Miami, etc.

Coach K has been able to get the best talent to come to Duke because he is a fantastic recruiter. (Over time, brand and tradition come into play, but it all started with recruiting.)

"Showing love," IMO, is part and parcel of recruiting. Heck, it might even be the center of it.

The fact of the matter is Coach K and staff show a lot of love to recruits -- that's why they come to Duke. Showing love doesn't mean pandering, but it does mean communication and building relationships, which are hard to do if you're not around.

So I don't think it's fair to imply that Boynton is an egotist because he chose not to come to Duke because he didn't receive enough attention, because receiving attention is exactly what happens in recruiting and it's what recruits expect from the process.

I'm with Whiteboardguy -- the clear lesson from the past Olympics experience is that if Coach K goes for another run he should make sure he leaves behind a team that can take care of business while he's gone.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Coach K will be in his mid 60's.

For how many years after that do you honestly think he will be the head coach of Duke Basketball?

Selfishly I would like the answer to be "for many years" or something similar.

When I think honestly I get a different answer.

SoCal

[Matches]

I've never really bought the idea that K being the Olympic coach brought any tangible benefit to the university. Name recognition is important in recruiting but everyone already knew who K was. Winning the gold is a nice notch in his belt but I really don't think it has much if any cache with recruits. Winning national championships and developing good NBA players are going to be FAR more important.

With that said, I was totally on board with K being the '08 Olympic coach, even though I felt it would cause a short-term hit to the Duke program, because (a) he wanted to do it, and (b) it seemed like the patriotic thing to do. I think it was a reasonable sacrifice for the program to make.

I really really don't like the notion of *another* 3-4 year commitment, though. Not that I get a vote, of course. My preference would be that K not commit to what amounts to a second full-time job for another 3-4 years, particularly at a time when the program appears to be sliding.

[SupaDave]

I agree with the spirit of your post, but there is one thing I do want to point out...

Duke is not a natural college basketball destination. If it wasn't for Coach K, Duke would strugge to get top tier recruits given its academic demands. It's also not as if Duke is located in hotspots like New York, Miami, etc.

Coach K has been able to get the best talent to come to Duke because he is a fantastic recruiter. (Over time, brand and tradition come into play, but it all started with recruiting.)

"Showing love," IMO, is part and parcel of recruiting. Heck, it might even be the center of it.

The fact of the matter is Coach K and staff show a lot of love to recruits -- that's why they come to Duke. Showing love doesn't mean pandering, but it does mean communication and building relationships, which are hard to do if you're not around.

So I don't think it's fair to imply that Boynton is an egotist because he chose not to come to Duke because he didn't receive enough attention, because receiving attention is exactly what happens in recruiting and it's what recruits expect from the process.

I'm with Whiteboardguy -- the clear lesson from the past Olympics experience is that if Coach K goes for another run he should make sure he leaves behind a team that can take care of business while he's gone.

Are you kidding me? You better do your research buddy. Ever noticed how many TIMES Duke has played UNC? It takes a long time to build that kind of rivalry - and as your rival grows, so do you. Duke has fielded successful basketball teams for decades - not just Coach K's tenure.

Oh and the last time I checked, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Memphis, Kansas State, UNC, and Wake Forest weren't in sprawling metropolitan areas but yet they still get recruits. Strange.

You can only woo a player so much, regardless of the circumstances. I love how you guys can assume that no contact was made with Boynton but indeed there was much contact with Boynton. Actually, I knew what the deal was immediatly when I read the recruiting article and he stated that all the coaching staff had suits on. That stuck out to me b/c it implied that he wasn't necessarily ready for that level. "I guess that's just how they roll." They liked funny gimmicky always around "cousin" Billy - who makes promises and gave them some free gym shorts to walk around the house in during your son's Duke home visit. Nuff said.

[Wander]

I'd just like to point out that implying that a kid chose to go to Florida over Duke because he wasn't unselfish or hardworking enough is somewhere between juvenile excuse making and incredibly condescending.

I think we look great for 2010 and beyond and thus don't need a coaching change of any sort, but it completely amazes me how anyone can think that criticism of the staff is unwarranted for leaving us a roster with only two guards. For crying out loud, we usually START three!

[Greg_Newton]

You can only woo a player so much, regardless of the circumstances. I love how you guys can assume that no contact was made with Boynton but indeed there was much contact with Boynton. Actually, I knew what the deal was immediatly when I read the recruiting article and he stated that all the coaching staff had suits on. That stuck out to me b/c it implied that he wasn't necessarily ready for that level. "I guess that's just how they roll." They liked funny gimmicky always around "cousin" Billy - who makes promises and gave them some free gym shorts to walk around the house in during your son's Duke home visit. Nuff said.

Whoa now. For all the talk of not disparaging a recruit's character just because he doesn't pick Duke (see John Wall thread), that's a pretty bold statement if I'm reading it correctly.

While it may be a noble cause, I think some of the folks defending K are taking things too far. I would imagine most people would agree on three things:

1. K coaching USA to the gold was a great thing to do all around, and could likely end up being a net positive for the program in the long run.

2. Given that, if K coaches USA through 2012 and commits his assistants again, this continued involvement will most likely not be a net positive for the program.

3. Constantly showing interest and developing relationships through personal contact with impressionable, ambitious 17-18 year old recruits is a very important element of recruiting.

I don't think many folks on the anti-K-2012 side are arguing much more than this, and I don't think many folks on the pro-K-2012 side would disagree with these 3 points. If I am incorrect in thinking this, I would be curious to see the reasoning...

[ice-9]

Are you kidding me? You better do your research buddy. Ever noticed how many TIMES Duke has played UNC? It takes a long time to build that kind of rivalry - and as your rival grows, so do you. Duke has fielded successful basketball teams for decades - not just Coach K's tenure.

Oh and the last time I checked, Kentucky, Kansas, Indiana, Memphis, Kansas State, UNC, and Wake Forest weren't in sprawling metropolitan areas but yet they still get recruits. Strange.



You're right in that I don't know much about Duke before Coach K, but it was my impression that NBA caliber recruits didn't come to Duke until Johnny Dawkins' class. If that understanding is incorrect, my apologies.

But the point still stands. Take Wake Forest as an example. They only got five star recruits consistenty when Skip Prosser and team took the helm -- they didn't go to Wake Forest because it's Wake Forest -- because otherwise Dave Odom would be the guy coaching CP3, Johnson or Aluminu.

Heck, just look at Calipari and the kind of recruiting classes he brings in. Even a blue blood school like Kentucky feels the difference.

I guess what I'm saying is that recruiting is all about showing attention, investing time and building relationships, and Boynton apparently felt those things were lacking in his recruitment. Or at least lacking in comparison to what he was receiving from Donovan and team.

But we can hardly blame kids for judging schools on that basis.

Or are we going to say the same thing about Barnes if he chooses another school? Here's a quote from an SI article posted in another thread:


One assistant, who the family will not name, pens handwritten letters. "They never get lost in the pile," Shirley says.

In basketball, as in business, Barnes knows how far the personal touch can go.

[sagegrouse]

Duke is not a natural college basketball destination. If it wasn't for Coach K, Duke would strugge to get top tier recruits given its academic demands. It's also not as if Duke is located in hotspots like New York, Miami, etc.

Coach K has been able to get the best talent to come to Duke because he is a fantastic recruiter. (Over time, brand and tradition come into play, but it all started with recruiting.)

.

Duke has generally had outstanding college basketball teams since Eddie Cameron took over as coach in the 1930s. There is a reason all those Southern Conference champonship banners are in the rafters. And the Bubas years produced a series of really top teams.. with many All-Americans.

Duke had a recruiting pipeline to the North, esp. Pennsylvania, beginning with Dick Groat in the late 1940s.

Moreover, Vic Bubas revolutionized college hoops recruiting by establishing a nationwide program to find every outstanding high school player. He was a decade or more ahead of his time.

Duke was not a hard sell. The campus, students, and academics were all strong positives. How many football and basketball recruits have been totally overwhelmed when they walked into the Duke Chapel?

In addition to the team banners in the rafters, individual jerseys for Groat, Heyman, Mullins, and Gminski are there as well. And that doesn't include such outstanding players as Marin, Verga, Mike Lewis, Randy Denton, Tate Armstrong, Jim Spanarkel, Tinkerbell or a host of others.

sagegrouse

[CameronBornAndBred]

During his recent press conference, this is what he had to say about the Olympics. Quoted from this article. (http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/college/duke/mens_basketball/story/1590420.html)

"Last summer, Krzyzewski coached Team USA to a gold medal in the Olympics in Beijing.
"It helped our [Duke] program," Krzyzewski said. "It helped me. It helped our school. It's just a good thing. Really, when you're listing the positives and the negatives, there is no negative for me.""

So whether we think (or don't think) that K's involvement in the Olympics adversely affected the state of the program and recruiting, Krzyzewski believes that it helped. That could be an indicator on which way he is leaning in his upcoming decision. I wish he would pass this time around, or at least as others have suggested, leave the rest of his staff at home to mind the fort.

[Owen Meany]

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/11838893/15944195

Good for him, good for Team USA, and I believe ultimately good for Duke.

Good Luck

[roywhite]

Congrats to Coach K.

Thanks for all you do for Duke, and thanks for all you do for our country.

[CameronBornAndBred]

While I'll have fun watching them and pulling for them (I would either way), I'm less than thrilled. I know it's an honor, and he feels he is better for it. If I were in his shoes and I felt the same way, I'd do the same thing. Just leave us some staff and recruiters at home this time Coach, and best of luck. GO USA!!! GO DUKE!!!

[geraldsneighbor]

Well, as long as we start having better results in March he can do it every year. I just hope it doesn't effect our recruiting as I feel it has the past 3 seasons.


I hope I am off base with that remark. I am just concerned.

[FireOgilvie]

I'm not happy about this. I will feel better if we land Barnes, Knight, or Irving.

I really hope the assistants stay home this time. Boynton already said that he chose Florida (even though he was initially leaning towards Duke) because of the attention that the Florida staff gave him while Coach K and the staff were in China.

[gep]

I agree with all the comments on "good for Coach K", "good for Duke", "hope Coach K leaves the staff behind this time", etc.

(I hope I can say this correctly...) But, I wonder about comments from the past about the NBA players... "gotta rest", "need the time off"... in other words... all for themselves first. And, I think, most fans, wants to see the very best NBA players on Team USA. So, just like how we fans want to see the best, because they are the best, then maybe Coach K is also seen as the best. I think all agree that for the NBA players, Team USA is a bit of a grind as far as their "real" jobs go. So as for Coach K, it's also a grind as far as his "real" job goes. But if we can expect the top NBA players to commit to USA, then so can Coach K. We ask NBA players to make the sacrifice for USA... well, maybe we/Duke also gotta sacrifice Coach K (hopefully only a bit) for USA too.

[BlueintheFace]

4 more years for K and USA according to ESPN. Congratulations Coach, I support you 100%

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4312673

...but as I first stated early in this thread, I hope he leaves the assistants behind this time. I would not be surprised if he did.

[Scorp4me]

Alright so maybe we struggle a bit for a few years...struggling is obviously a relative term when it comes to Duke. But K is setting himself up for his twilight years great. All these 11 and 12 years olds will be just getting ready to commit to colleges when K is going through his final few years. At least I assume his final few years, who knows the guy has already had both hips replaced he may keep going forever. The point is who do you think these kids watching Team USA win are going to want to play for??? I'll give you a hint, it ain't Roy Boy!

[BD80]

I see this as a legacy thing. I am guessing that he already has commitments from Kobe, Lebron, Melo and DWade. I would also guess that all of them are planning to call it quits as to the National team after the 2012 Olympics. With that group and Coach K, we should be successful. This team will be remembered up there with the dream team, and will have done it 3 times (2 Olympic, 1 world championship).

Good luck to the next coach and the next team.

This also tells me Coach K has a good feeling about the incoming class (2010), which will reduce the recruiting necessary next summer.

[dukemsu]

Ultimately, it's great for K and great for USA Basketball. Not sure how great it is for Duke Basketball.

If there were negative results from K's involvement for Duke, I would surmise that he's learned from them. Maybe this means the whole staff doesn't go this time.

Rather have had him at Duke full time. But I have to assume the guy knows what he's doing.

dukemsu

[Vincetaylor]

I don't think this is good for Duke at all. Definitely good for K...endorsements, his legacy, etc. He said at his press conference that his Olympic experience has been good for Duke. Sorry, I just don't see that. Duke is paying him over $3 million/year to coach Duke. That's a full time job all year round. If he takes months off to coach another team, how can he possibly be giving his all to Duke? He can't be as far as I'm concerned.

I also think this is the type of opportunity that other coaches should be able to have. There are plenty of deserving ones out there. If Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Howard, etc. all decide to go for it again, I can think of a long list of coaches who could bring home the gold.

[gep]

I also think this is the type of opportunity that other coaches should be able to have. There are plenty of deserving ones out there. If Kobe, Lebron, Melo, Howard, etc. all decide to go for it again, I can think of a long list of coaches who could bring home the gold.

Ahhh... but, I wonder... would Kobe and gang commit at this time if it wasn't Coach K? :rolleyes:

[DUKIE V(A)]

Obviously, this is great for Coach K and the US. I also think it is great thing for Duke and I am excited he looks like he will take the job again. I will now pay a lot more attention to international hoops. Plus, I think it says, he will be our Coach for the foreseeable future.

I am surprised so many of us are assuming Coach K has been neglectful of his job at Duke because he has coached Team USA. Coach K does not at all strike me as a person who is neglectful of anything. He also has clearly demonstrated his loyalty to Duke over the years. Perhaps this refreshes him and makes him an even better coach and recruiter. Very few of us have much idea at all of all the things Coach K does to make Duke basketball great enough that we care so much about it. Was I disappointed to "lose" Boynton to Florida? Of course. But I am not sure I buy the whole Donovan got him because Coach K was in China deal. And if that were the sole reason, it may be more a reflection of Boynton's needs as opposed to what Coach K didn't/couldn't do.

Ultimately, I think Coach K will add to his legacy as one of the All-Time greats by adding a World Championship and a second Olympic Gold as Head Coach (and third overall). By the way, if things continue to go well on the 2010 recruiting trail...I don't think NCAA title #4 is far off.

[bjornolf]

I agree with CB&B and others. As I said in the older thread where we debated this, I really don't have a problem with K doing it. I DON'T think K doing it hurts Duke too much. What DOES hurt Duke a lot, IMHO, is that he takes basically his entire staff with him. I hope K does it alone this time, and picks "outside" staff to help him. If he leaves Duke his staff to take care of the recruiting and other off-season stuff, I think we'll be fine. If he takes them with him again, I think we'll be down for the next few seasons.

[Matches]

I am surprised so many of us are assuming Coach K has been neglectful of his job at Duke because he has coached Team USA. Coach K does not at all strike me as a person who is neglectful of anything.

"Neglectful" is probably the wrong word. It's just that there are only so many hours in a day. Being a college basketball coach, particularly at a high-profile program like Duke, requires a huge time commitment from the coach. I don't think there's really any serious doubt that taking on more commitments (particularly huge ones like this) means less time spent on the Duke program. The guy's gotta eat and sleep sometime.

[NSDukeFan]

4 more years for K and USA according to ESPN. Congratulations Coach, I support you 100%

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/news/story?id=4312673

...but as I first stated early in this thread, I hope he leaves the assistants behind this time. I would not be surprised if he did.

I also support K 100% in going, though it will only be a 3 year commitment. Someone (mo.st.dukie) made a great point in another thread (Roscoe Smith thread) that if K can get a great class for 2010 (i.e. Barnes or Smith; Irving, Knight, or McCallum; and/or a big in addition to the great start), that may relieve some of the pressure on getting a lot of guys for 2011 and 2012. I am expecting that some elite recruits wouldn't mind learning from the Redeem Team coach and hearing how he approached coaching Kobe, LeBron, etc.

I can see the point that some posters have made regarding leaving the assistants behind to recruit, but I wonder if some of the assistants didn't benefit as coaches by helping out with the Olympics. I would think that would be an outstanding opportunity for them as well, some of which would be of benefit to Duke basketball.

Just something else to think about.

[killerleft]

Somehow I just can't summon any negative feelings about Coach K heading the Olympic team again. He has fulfilled my dream - 3 times! - of Duke winning the National Championship. He has returned US Basketball to best-in-the-world status, and the NBA has directly benefitted in several ways, including how our stars are viewed both here in the US and overseas.

I can only be happy for him. He's living a dream. He bleeds red, white, AND blue.

At Duke, he's seen as bigger than the team. For the US, he will be PART of the team. That's one strong draw, and I envy him.

[Ima Facultiwyfe]

For what my opinion is worth....and that's not much. After all, Coach K doesn't consult me on anything. I'm thinking that last time was about getting us back. This time would be about setting up a framework of coaches and staff that will sustain the Olympic program when he walks away. Perhaps that means bringing in assistants that would take over a larger role and ease into those slots. Like most of you here, I hope that doesn't mean more time away for the entire staff here.

Love, Ima

[MChambers]

Somehow I just can't summon any negative feelings about Coach K heading the Olympic team again. He has fulfilled my dream - 3 times! - of Duke winning the National Championship. He has returned US Basketball to best-in-the-world status, and the NBA has directly benefitted in several ways, including how our stars are viewed both here in the US and overseas.

I can only be happy for him. He's living a dream. He bleeds red, white, AND blue.

At Duke, he's seen as bigger than the team. For the US, he will be PART of the team. That's one strong draw, and I envy him.

It's a wonderful thing that he is doing this again, for the U.S. and for Duke. Duke will benefit from it.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I also support K 100% in going, though it will only be a 3 year commitment. Someone (mo.st.dukie) made a great point in another thread (Roscoe Smith thread) that if K can get a great class for 2010 (i.e. Barnes or Smith; Irving, Knight, or McCallum; and/or a big in addition to the great start), that may relieve some of the pressure on getting a lot of guys for 2011 and 2012. I am expecting that some elite recruits wouldn't mind learning from the Redeem Team coach and hearing how he approached coaching Kobe, LeBron, etc.

I can see the point that some posters have made regarding leaving the assistants behind to recruit, but I wonder if some of the assistants didn't benefit as coaches by helping out with the Olympics. I would think that would be an outstanding opportunity for them as well, some of which would be of benefit to Duke basketball.

Just something else to think about.

Will we be in better shape than we were in 2004 coming off the JJ/Shel Shav class and Deng with McBob and Greg on the horizon? I'm going to do my best to keep my mouth shut on this one since I've made my opinion known. I hope K is very successful, I hope the assistants stay home, and I hope recruits don't look at how we developed players the last time we had no head coach.

[Edouble]

The point is who do you think these kids watching Team USA win are going to want to play for??? I'll give you a hint, it ain't Roy Boy!

I'm not convinced that these kids are even watching the games. The early rounds were on weekend mornings at like 10 AM, when most recruits probably have some sort of league game. IIRC, the gold medal game was on at like 4 AM on a Tuesday or something. How many of those kids set their alarm for that one?

Plenty of kids are going to be playing for Roy. To suggest otherwise is ludicrous.

It is interesting that you bring up Roy, because for me, that's a big part of the problem. Coach K's time with the Olympics team has hurt Duke. It wouldn't be so hard to accept if UNC wasn't concurrently racking up Final Fours and NCs at an alarming rate. If Illinois had won the NC in 2005, and, say, Villanova had won it this year past, it wouldn't be so bad to see Coach K return as the national team coach. It is hard to watch LeBron and co. take up more of Coach K's time when the 'Heels have Roy working full time, and becoming the most successful coach in the country right now, right down the road.

[RockyMtDevil]

It amazes me the one-sided nature of this site. To continue to suggest that K's involvement in USA basketball "will only help" Duke and that "other schools will begin to scream an unfair recruiting advantage" is simply losing touch with reality. It's bordering on the absurd.

I challenge DBR and anyone to name one tangible way the Duke basketball program is in better shape today, than prior to K's commitment to Team USA. It simply doesn't exist and it is foolish to suggest otherwise.

[Bsim412]

This is a great move by Coach K. I think this will also help his recruitung efforts significantly! :)

[roywhite]

It amazes me the one-sided nature of this site. To continue to suggest that K's involvement in USA basketball "will only help" Duke and that "other schools will begin to scream an unfair recruiting advantage" is simply losing touch with reality. It's bordering on the absurd.

I challenge DBR and anyone to name one tangible way the Duke basketball program is in better shape today, than prior to K's commitment to Team USA. It simply doesn't exist and it is foolish to suggest otherwise.

Based on what I've read (and seen):

1. Coach K and the staff have learned in more detail the offensive strategies and schemes used by Mike D'Antoni and applied those in Duke's program
2. Coach K and the staff have learned in more detail the zone defense procedures and strategies used by Jim Boeheim and applied those occasionally in Duke games.
3. Coach K and the staff have seen first hand the commitment and work ethic of the top players in the world, and related that in a meaningful way to the Duke program
4. The Olympic experience seems to have energized Coach K, and may have added extra years to his overall coaching career (more years at Duke).

There may be more...

[dukelifer]

"Neglectful" is probably the wrong word. It's just that there are only so many hours in a day. Being a college basketball coach, particularly at a high-profile program like Duke, requires a huge time commitment from the coach. I don't think there's really any serious doubt that taking on more commitments (particularly huge ones like this) means less time spent on the Duke program. The guy's gotta eat and sleep sometime.

He can do both at a high level- but it is not easy to balance. he has learned to be efficient. His advantage at Duke is that he has been doing it for a very long time. Now whether the fire is at the same level as it was back in 1986 is not clear- but the guy knows the job. But that is an issue independent of the Olympic job. One might argue that the Olympic coaching is renewing for him. The Olympic job is also much easier now- he knows how to coach these guys and there will be carry-over from the last group. So I expect K will be able to balance better this time around- simply because he has more experience.

[NSDukeFan]

Originally Posted by RockyMtDevil View Post
It amazes me the one-sided nature of this site. To continue to suggest that K's involvement in USA basketball "will only help" Duke and that "other schools will begin to scream an unfair recruiting advantage" is simply losing touch with reality. It's bordering on the absurd.

Are you really surprised that on a site that supports Duke basketball filled with Duke basketball fans, that people would be supporting the coach who has brought tremendous success over the past 30 years to that program and people would trust his judgement?


Based on what I've read (and seen):

1. Coach K and the staff have learned in more detail the offensive strategies and schemes used by Mike D'Antoni and applied those in Duke's program
2. Coach K and the staff have learned in more detail the zone defense procedures and strategies used by Jim Boeheim and applied those occasionally in Duke games.
3. Coach K and the staff have seen first hand the commitment and work ethic of the top players in the world, and related that in a meaningful way to the Duke program
4. The Olympic experience seems to have energized Coach K, and may have ended extra years to his overall coaching career (more years at Duke).

There may be more...

I think the experience for the assistant coaches to be a part of a coaching staff with that much experience can only have helped.

Any chance Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, Andre Dawkins, Josh Hairston, Tyler Thornton and Seth Curry wanted to play for the Olympic coach?

[Matches]

Any chance Mason Plumlee, Ryan Kelly, Andre Dawkins, Josh Hairston, Tyler Thornton and Seth Curry wanted to play for the Olympic coach?

I'm a little skeptical that any recruit wants to play for K specifically because he was the Olympic coach. I think lots of recruits want to play for K because he has proven himself to be a very good coach - but that was proven long before he took on the Olympic job.

One could argue that K gains exposure through the Olympics that might help with recruiting - but K and Duke basketball were already pretty much ominpresent. Maybe he's getting exposure overseas, and we will land more international recruits? Possible, I guess, though I surely don't see any evidence of it yet.

[Billy Dat]

I am happy that K is going to stay with Team USA. I love watching the international game and love that our players are fully engaged and winning again.

Obviously, the big knock on his Team USA involvement is that it has hurt recruiting. I am not convinced that is the case. I agree that Duke's recruiting success in the past few years has been below expectations, but can it be directly pinned to the distraction of Team USA? Duke is an extremely polarizing program, it's en vouge to dislike Duke right now. It feels like we're going through an era similar to the mid 90s when we brought in the Chief, Collins, Price, Newton, Beard, Caple, Wojo, Langdon etc. but missed out on guys like Alan Henderson, Chris Webber, Kobe never came, etc. Meanwhile, UNC brought in Stackhouse, Wallace, McInnis, Carter, Jamison. A lot of our guys didn't pan out...Coach had to leave the team...UNC was going to Final Fours...

We've gone through a wave where it feels like the prevailing sentiment is that it's not cool to go to Duke...so I'll agree that where I don't think Team USA duties have hurt recruiting, I don't think they have yet helped, either. But, as happened in the late 1990s, the wheel turned, we came back around and had another great run from 1998 - 2004. Someone posted a link during the John Wall recruitment which quoted the ways that Calipari was comparing the Duke program to his program and how his allowed for more showcasing of individual skill within a team concept. I remember reading that piece and thinking, "Calipari is brilliant, this is exactly the right argument for him to be making to the modern AAU kid"...and it had nothing to do with Team USA.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm a little skeptical that any recruit wants to play for K specifically because he was the Olympic coach. I think lots of recruits want to play for K because he has proven himself to be a very good coach - but that was proven long before he took on the Olympic job.

One could argue that K gains exposure through the Olympics that might help with recruiting - but K and Duke basketball were already pretty much ominpresent. Maybe he's getting exposure overseas, and we will land more international recruits? Possible, I guess, though I surely don't see any evidence of it yet.

I agree with your post that nobody is committing to Duke specifically because K is coaching the Olympics and that K and Duke were pretty much omnipresent, but I would argue that coaching the Olympics is one way to guarantee that K and Duke will remain front and center in people's (recruits?) minds for the near future.

[Stray Gator]

It amazes me the one-sided nature of this site. To continue to suggest that K's involvement in USA basketball "will only help" Duke and that "other schools will begin to scream an unfair recruiting advantage" is simply losing touch with reality. It's bordering on the absurd.

I challenge DBR and anyone to name one tangible way the Duke basketball program is in better shape today, than prior to K's commitment to Team USA. It simply doesn't exist and it is foolish to suggest otherwise.

If you feel that the posters on this site who support Coach K's efforts as coach of the U.S. Olympic Team, and who see it as yielding both short-term and long-term benefits to the Duke program in addition to being a source of enormous pride, are "losing touch with reality," and "bordering on the absurd," and "foolish," why do you continue subjecting yourself to such angst and frustration by reading this board? I don't think that you are any more capable of proving that the Duke program has been damaged in any "tangible way" by K's commitment to Team USA than supporters can prove that Duke has benefitted in any "tangible way"--and any suggestion to the contrary is, IMO, nothing more than mere speculation.

We all understand that you and some others here don't like Coach K spending part of his time coaching the Olympic Team, and writing books, and engaging in any activities other than devoting himself directly and fully to Duke basketball--and don't recognize that there are indirect benefits from those activities. That's your privilege, and you're certainly welcome to express that opinion. But when you go so far as to characterize others here who disagree with your position as "losing touch with reality," and "bordering on the absurd," and "foolish," I think you're crossing the line. I don't see any posts here accusing you of irrational thought simply because you don't support Coach K's other activities. I suggest you show respect for the differing views of others as others show respect for yours.

[RockyMtDevil]

So, let me get this straight, not walking the party line is showing dis-respect, are you serious?

My point is simple. If anyone believes the Duke program is in better shape today than it was in 2004-2005 I believe you are drinking the Kool Aid and need to reconsider your opinion. This is just one example on this board where dissenting views are not allowed. And if one does express them, all of a sudden you are a pariah and should be banished or "go somewhere else".

Tangible issues:
1. Recruiting:
missing on Wall, Patterson, Monroe, Boynton and Brandon Wright and others in the past couple years
2. March:
Failure to move past sweet 16 since what 2004?
3. March:
combined 3-3 record the last three years in the Tournament
4. 2 guards:
I think we are all painfully aware of this
5. 22-11:
Yuck
6. 1 and 6 against Carolina in the past several seasons

[RockyMtDevil]

If you feel that the posters on this site who support Coach K's efforts as coach of the U.S. Olympic Team, and who see it as yielding both short-term and long-term benefits to the Duke program in addition to being a source of enormous pride, are "losing touch with reality," and "bordering on the absurd," and "foolish," why do you continue subjecting yourself to such angst and frustration by reading this board? I don't think that you are any more capable of proving that the Duke program has been damaged in any "tangible way" by K's commitment to Team USA than supporters can prove that Duke has benefitted in any "tangible way"--and any suggestion to the contrary is, IMO, nothing more than mere speculation.

We all understand that you and some others here don't like Coach K spending part of his time coaching the Olympic Team, and writing books, and engaging in any activities other than devoting himself directly and fully to Duke basketball--and don't recognize that there are indirect benefits from those activities. That's your privilege, and you're certainly welcome to express that opinion. But when you go so far as to characterize others here who disagree with your position as "losing touch with reality," and "bordering on the absurd," and "foolish," I think you're crossing the line. I don't see any posts here accusing you of irrational thought simply because you don't support Coach K's other activities. I suggest you show respect for the differing views of others as others show respect for yours.

Stray,
Nobody is foolish enough to believe K shouldn't write books, etc.. Stay focused on the topic and stop trying to make this into a catch all situation. Myself and others don't like him being devoted to two different teams. That is the point, a house divided cannot stand. Books, et. al have nothing to do with this...so please don't put words in my mouth.

[roywhite]

So, let me get this straight, not walking the party line is showing dis-respect, are you serious?

My point is simple. If anyone believes the Duke program is in better shape today than it was in 2004-2005 I believe you are drinking the Kool Aid and need to reconsider your opinion. This is just one example on this board where dissenting views are not allowed. And if one does express them, all of a sudden you are a pariah and should be banished or "go somewhere else".

Tangible issues:
1. Recruiting:
missing on Wall, Patterson, Monroe, Boynton and Brandon Wright and others in the past couple years
2. March:
Failure to move past sweet 16 since what 2004?
3. March:
combined 3-3 record the last three years in the Tournament
4. 2 guards:
I think we are all painfully aware of this
5. 22-11:
Yuck
6. 1 and 6 against Carolina in the past several seasons

I won't comment any further on this other than to say...Is there some cause-and-effect here that you see with K's participation in the Olympics? Your comments seems to be more general dis-satisfaction with the results of the last 5 to 6 years.

[jgehtland]

He said your insulting tone was what was unappreciated. He explicitly said your opinions were welcome. Were you planning on offering some facts, or just calling people who support thus move fools?

[Duke of Nashville]

It is hard to watch LeBron and co. take up more of Coach K's time when the 'Heels have Roy working full time, and becoming the most successful coach in the country right now, right down the road.

Old Roy may be the most successful coach in the country right now but look how fortunate he was this last year. Hansborough staying for 4 years? Lawson coming back after his stock dropped in the draft the previous year? Ellington coming back for his junior? You better believe if the draft was as weak as it was this year two years ago all three would have gone. Name another college in the past five years that had veteran players come back to school with the credentials matching of those three... I can not think of any, maybe Florida when they won back-to-back which was basically a pact those players set with each other. Sounds like a hell of a trend. I remember when Jason William came back for his junior year and we almost won again in 02’.

The way that things have played out the past two or three years will be more beneficial to Duke in the long run.

Winning the Olympics and a shot at the World Championships is a hell of a recruiting tool. Pictures of K with Bron' Bron', Kobe, CP3, Melo, and Superman, players that these young men look up to and want to become and knowing that K has proven that he can win when given the best, definitely will reflect in recruiting top quality recruits. Remember Greg and McBOB were both either top 2 or 3 in their position, and it just didn't work out in the long run like it did with UNC. Recruiting can be hit or miss with top tier players at times.

With what is coming in 10', and the addition of the transfer Seth Curry, along with the experience of some young versatile big men, we are going to be set up for a run for another title run and we will be talking about how beneficial the Olympics were for us and Coach K.

[RockyMtDevil]

He said your insulting tone was what was unappreciated. He explicitly said your opinions were welcome. Were you planning on offering some facts, or just calling people who support thus move fools?

I would say these are hard facts than one could attribute to the general state of decline in the last few years. The one constant variable in the last few years has been Team USA. Nobody can prove this without a doubt, but I along with others believe that K's involvement with Team USA has lead to the general Duke decline we've all witnessed. Research suggests finding a variable to determine change, this seems to be it.

[Matches]

It feels like we're going through an era similar to the mid 90s when we brought in the Chief, Collins, Price, Newton, Beard, Caple, Wojo, Langdon etc. but missed out on guys like Alan Henderson, Chris Webber, Kobe never came, etc. Meanwhile, UNC brought in Stackhouse, Wallace, McInnis, Carter, Jamison. A lot of our guys didn't pan out...Coach had to leave the team...UNC was going to Final Fours...



It does feel a bit like that, although nowhere near as bad. But it's probably worth noting that the above-referenced era coincided with a time when K was, by his own admission, over-extended and devoting less time to recruiting.

[Matches]

Winning the Olympics and a shot at the World Championships is a hell of a recruiting tool. Pictures of K with Bron' Bron', Kobe, CP3, Melo, and Superman, players that these young men look up to and want to become and knowing that K has proven that he can win when given the best, definitely will reflect in recruiting top quality recruits. Remember Greg and McBOB were both either top 2 or 3 in their position, and it just didn't work out in the long run like it did with UNC. Recruiting can be hit or miss with top tier players at times.



Yeah, not to go in circles, but I just don't see it. I just don't think teenagers think this way. For one thing, I don't think teenagers care about the Olympic team. Frankly, I'm not sure that very many *adults* really care about it beyond a passing patriotic interest. Personally I watched very little of it even with a Dukie coaching and a Dukie on the team.

I also think that, rightly or wrongly, many people see the position of Olympic coach as ceremonial. It's not viewed with the same importance that, say, K's role at Duke is. Do we believe the 2008 USA team, with Kobe, Lebron, Wade et al, wouldn't have won if it was coached by, say, Mike Fratello? Was Chuck Daly a better coach than Larry Brown, or did Chuck Daly have (FAR) superior talent? The fact is we assembled a modern-day Dream Team in 2008 and it would've been a gigantic disappointment if it *didn't* win the gold. Perhaps K's involvement played a role in all those guys being there - if so, great - and I don't mean at all to disparage the hard work he put in - but I don't think very many people see the USA 2008 Gold as some maestro performance by Coach K.

To the extent Coach K can now name-drop Lebron, Kobe et al with recruits - I don't know - maybe that has some cache for awhile. Doesn't really seem to be the case so far, but what do I know? In any event, it only goes so far. If having coached Lebron was a huge draw for recruiting, some college program would be writing Paul Silas a big check right now.

I can't speak to whether K is a better coach because of the experience; that's of course possible. But I don't buy - at all - the notion that Duke BB recruiting has been helped, because I don't think the thought process being articulated in support of that notion is a real thought process among actual teenagers.

[SupaDave]

So, let me get this straight, not walking the party line is showing dis-respect, are you serious?

My point is simple. If anyone believes the Duke program is in better shape today than it was in 2004-2005 I believe you are drinking the Kool Aid and need to reconsider your opinion. This is just one example on this board where dissenting views are not allowed. And if one does express them, all of a sudden you are a pariah and should be banished or "go somewhere else".

Tangible issues:
1. Recruiting:
missing on Wall, Patterson, Monroe, Boynton and Brandon Wright and others in the past couple years
2. March:
Failure to move past sweet 16 since what 2004?
3. March:
combined 3-3 record the last three years in the Tournament
4. 2 guards:
I think we are all painfully aware of this
5. 22-11:
Yuck
6. 1 and 6 against Carolina in the past several seasons

Versus...

No season with LESS than 22 wins...
6 straight tourney appearances
Three of the last 6 ACC Championships
Two Maui Championships
Undefeated in the Big 10 Challenge
Undefeated in Madison Square Garden
6 draft picks (three lottery)
New Practice facility
New recruiting methods
New coaching methodology
More media exposure
Recruited Gerald, DeMarcus, Singler, Scheyer, JJ, Shelden, McRoberts, Williams, Thornton, Kelly, Plumlees, Hairston, and Dawkins...
Consecutive top 10 recruiting classes
Being a key cog in the revitilization of USA bball

Yeah - I'm ashamed of K...

[DUKIE V(A)]

I think the relative lack of success of Duke for the last 5 or 6 compared to Duke since the late 80's has to do a lot with misfortune. The master plan for winning National Championships was in place and we've had guys leave much earlier than expected (e.g., Deng, Williams) or never come (e.g., Livingston, Humphries). In addition, we have lost some tough recruiting battles and some of consensus very highly touted recruits that we have gotten have not quite lived up to their lofty expectations. On the whole, the teams that have been more competitive for National Titles during this more recent timeframe have been fortunate to keep their best players and/or have a completely dominant one and done type player. I don't really see how this has much to do with Coach K coaching Team USA.

Although I am hopeful that we can return to becoming more dominant in college hoops in the coming years, I think our recent teams have been more successful than they are given credit for. Also, I am extremely proud to have guys like Coach K, Wojo, Scheyer, LT, D-Mark, Singler, Paulus, McClure, Zoubs, etc. representing Duke. I am also extremely excited about Kelly and MP2 this season and our excellent group of players and people we have entering in 2010. We will be on top again soon and thankfully Coach K will continue going about doing things the right way.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Do we believe the 2008 USA team, with Kobe, Lebron, Wade et al, wouldn't have won if it was coached by, say, Mike Fratello?

I certainly think some other coaches could have won gold in 2008 but many would not have. Coach K, the players, and the USA Basketball staff did an outstanding job of getting it done. It was no easy task and it won't be in 2010 (Worlds) or 2012 either. The world is playing an extremely high level of basketball and the international game ain't the NBA (very different game).

[PaIronDuke]

border on whining. There is no substitute for the immense pride most of us have in the kind of student-athletes and standard of performance excellence shown in Coach K's program-and in the other sport programs, for that matter. I doubt we'ver had a better university-wide program in Duke's history, and, with this 2-3 year burp, I am confident Duke basketball will give Duke-enviers more frustration from 2010 on 'til Coach K's ride into the sunset.

To put it another way, would you trade basketball programs with ANY other school in the country-near or long term?

[Duke of Nashville]

I can't speak to whether K is a better coach because of the experience; that's of course possible. But I don't buy - at all - the notion that Duke BB recruiting has been helped, because I don't think the thought process being articulated in support of that notion is a real thought process among actual teenagers.


I remember Ryan Kelley (who UNC was heavily interested in) and MP2 both signing pretty soon after the Olympics were over. We were not exactly hurting for gaurd play like we are right now and I know we "missed out" on John Wall and Bledsoe but we were not really gunning out for either of those recruits and nobody was even sure they could even get cleared by the NCAA anyway....but look what we are already headed for in 10'...

Gold came to us last year....just last year and now we have two star recruits coming in, an already top 5 recruiting class and a potentially the best recruiting class for 10' if Harrison Barnes does come to Duke and or Kyrie/Barnes/Fab Melo sign. But again that is pretty typical of K to bring in a class of that stature every couple of years. But you better believe sitting in Coach K's office surrounded by awards and pictures of Beijing has got to be influential and inspiring for a teenager to see.

Has anyone seen what has already been posted on the recruiting thread?...we have like Ray/Fab/Harrison/Kyrie/Brandon all coming in for an Elite Basketball Camp...please tell me what coach is doing something like that or who could pull in such elite talent for a camp.

Helped....maybe...Changed...ya....hurt... definitly not

[Matches]

I remember Ryan Kelley (who UNC was heavily interested in) and MP2 both signing pretty soon after the Olympics were over. We were not exactly hurting for gaurd play like we are right now and I know we "missed out" on John Wall and Bledsoe but we were not really gunning out for either of those recruits and nobody was even sure they could even get cleared by the NCAA anyway....but look what we are already headed for in 10'...



See what you're doing there, though? You're positing that, since Kelly and Plumlee* signed after the Olympics were over, we must have gotten them, at least in part, because of the Olympics. But you're not willing to posit that the guys we lost, we *lost* in part because of the Olympics. Neither assertion is really proveable or disproveable, so how can it be one but not the other?

I don't dispute that we're landing good recruits (at least I'm hopeful they turn out to be good) - but that happened pre-Olympics too. Are we getting more of those guys now than we were before? A look at the past few years tells me "no". Is that directly attributable to the Olympics? Maybe, maybe not - all we can really do is speculate. But we're speculating about the reasons for a drop-off, not a rise.

* My memory might be faulty but I'm pretty sure Plumlee committed well before the Olympics. IIRC we had MP2 on board before MP1.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

IMO, it was not the problem of K coaching the Olympic team that hurt our recruiting efforts, it was that our net was too narrow. Can we blame Kenny Boynton for not wanting to leave Florida? Can we blame John Wall for wanting to stick with Calipari after all that time? Olympics or no Olympics, they were going to do what they wanted to do. I see no issue with this. Honestly, I think he would've passed it up if he really saw that Duke basketball was in trouble. He cares too much about Duke to leave it hanging by a thread, otherwise he probably would've expressed interest in the Lakers job.

[airowe]

Yeah, not to go in circles, but I just don't see it. I just don't think teenagers think this way. For one thing, I don't think teenagers care about the Olympic team. Frankly, I'm not sure that very many *adults* really care about it beyond a passing patriotic interest. Personally I watched very little of it even with a Dukie coaching and a Dukie on the team.

Looks like at least one prospect thinks it's impressive to have an Olympic title under your belt:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/col...academy-day-1/


After most of us finished our meals, Bilas began an interview with LeBron. He showed pictures of LeBron’s past accomplishments (the cover of sports Illustrated as a junior in high school, All-Star MVP, Olympic gold medalist and the list goes on) and asking his first thoughts or memories of that time in his life.

[Duke of Nashville]

See what you're doing there, though? You're positing that, since Kelly and Plumlee* signed after the Olympics were over, we must have gotten them, at least in part, because of the Olympics. But you're not willing to posit that the guys we lost, we *lost* in part because of the Olympics. Neither assertion is really proveable or disproveable, so how can it be one but not the other?

* My memory might be faulty but I'm pretty sure Plumlee committed well before the Olympics. IIRC we had MP2 on board before MP1.


You are right. I forgot about Standford.

So players we lost out on because of the Olympics...

Kenny Boynton Jr. - who signed in-state to Florida

I can not recall another one that we were actively persuing before the Olympics

[Matches]

Looks like at least one prospect thinks it's impressive to have an Olympic title under your belt:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/col...academy-day-1/

I'm having trouble getting your link to open for me, so apologies if I'm reading your excerpt incorrectly - but that sounds much more like someone being impressed with *Lebron's* accomplishments, not K's. It's not really the same thing.

[Duke of Nashville]

IMO, it was not the problem of K coaching the Olympic team that hurt our recruiting efforts, it was that our net was too narrow. Can we blame Kenny Boynton for not wanting to leave Florida? Can we blame John Wall for wanting to stick with Calipari after all that time? Olympics or no Olympics, they were going to do what they wanted to do. I see no issue with this. Honestly, I think he would've passed it up if he really saw that Duke basketball was in trouble. He cares too much about Duke to leave it hanging by a thread, otherwise he probably would've expressed interest in the Lakers job.

Agreed. I think the staff also realized this same issue. See what SupaDave posted on the recruiting thread?

Posted By: SupaDave 2010 Recruiting Thread

Duke Elite Camp - check the link. Anyone got more info?

http://dukebasketballjournal.wordpress.com/2009/07/06/several-top-2010-prospects-invited-to-the-duke-elite-camp/

[Wander]

I don't think that you are any more capable of proving that the Duke program has been damaged in any "tangible way" by K's commitment to Team USA than supporters can prove that Duke has benefitted in any "tangible way"--and any suggestion to the contrary is, IMO, nothing more than mere speculation.

Boynton, and as a result, our entire upcoming only-two-guards fiasco. About as tangible as you can get.

I like that K was the Olympic coach actually, but I also don't pretend it didn't have at least some short term negative effects. I do think it will have (net) positive long term effects, and that it's not unreasonable to expect him to leave the assistants at Duke this time.

Our overall decline in March, though, is clearly deeper than the Olympics. We haven't beaten a 4 seed or better in almost a decade, well before this olympic thing.

[devil84]

Yeah, not to go in circles, but I just don't see it. I just don't think teenagers think this way. For one thing, I don't think teenagers care about the Olympic team....

To the extent Coach K can now name-drop Lebron, Kobe et al with recruits - I don't know - maybe that has some cache for awhile. Doesn't really seem to be the case so far, but what do I know? ...

I can't speak to whether K is a better coach because of the experience; that's of course possible. But I don't buy - at all - the notion that Duke BB recruiting has been helped, because I don't think the thought process being articulated in support of that notion is a real thought process among actual teenagers.

Having mentored over 125 seniors very closely over the last 4 years, many of them who are tops in the marching/symphonic band realm (including 3 All-Americans, 5 All-States, and numerous All-Districts), and a parent of a rising junior and rising freshman in college, I think I can speak to the "thought process among actual teenagers."

I've talked with these kids extensively about their choice of colleges and about recruiting (a number were heavily recruited for music, including my son). Some like the idea of being pursued, having a representative there all the time to watch them. Others can't stand that, because it's oppressive and/or artificial, and surely that representative has other things to do! Some would LOVE a text from the Olympic coach from Beijing that name drops the major stars, or because he's on a book tour in NYC. Others would be turned off by such pompous gestures.

As far as choosing a college, some of the things that were on the music majors' lists:
- Close to home
- As far away from home as humanly possible
- Many friends from HS going to that college
- Few, if any, friends from HS going to that college
- Reputation of the program
- How well they liked the band director
- What kind of food services are on campus
- Whether or not suites are available in the dorms
- What kind of second major was available
- The hot babe/dude that showed them around
- The personalities of the other people in band
- Whether there was skiing or beaches within a few miles
- Party atmosphere

And the list goes on. Based on the personality of the student, I couldn't make any correlation to who would chose where. Some of the kids that ended up at UNC-C I thought would go to Carolina or Wake Forest. Some that were excellent percussionists that would flourish at the University of North Texas (an OUTSTANDING percussion school) chose Appalachian State instead. They all had their valid reasons, and the decision process was really, really interesting and had NOTHING to do with whatever the representative of the school said/did/promised.

So, do I think that Coach K being the Olympic coach helps or hinders recruiting? Both. Does NOT coaching the Olympic program help or hinder? Both. For every recruit that thinks it's cool to get a call/text from the Olympics, there will be another that wants face time with the coach. And then there are the kids that none of that matters -- they want to take the classes they want (easy, hard, certain major) or want a particular location (beach, mountains, warm, snowy) or just "click" better somewhere else.

Having been a part of the recruiting process at Duke, I'll safely say that I trust Coach K and staff. These recruiting "misses" are not necessarily any "fault" of Coach K, his staff, the players, the school, or any Olympic commitment or book tour. They're likely the result of a bunch of teenagers making up their minds, which is a crazy process at best.

I'd prefer not to dwell on the "misses," but look at the roster we have. With good chemistry, I think we can be much greater than the sum of the parts. As a member of the 10-17 and 11-17 teams, I'll HAPPILY take "only" 22 win seasons, "only" making it to the Sweet 16, and many of the other criterion that people seem to moping about.

[Duke of Nashville]

I'm having trouble getting your link to open for me, so apologies if I'm reading your excerpt incorrectly - but that sounds much more like someone being impressed with *Lebron's* accomplishments, not K's. It's not really the same thing.

That was writen by one of the top big men in the country dwight powell.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/high-school-wire/2009/07/dwight-powell-diary-lebron-james-skills-academy-day-1/

He does not say Coach K anywhere but it mentions how great it must feel to accomplish that feat...and who was Lebrons Coach again.... It was the association with the fact that K was there and accomplished some great things with these players. It will echoe on the recruiting trails for years. It may have had some short term effects...like losing Boynton...but that would have been a hell of a steal from the state of Florida....

[Duke of Nashville]

I'd prefer not to dwell on the "misses," but look at the roster we have. With good chemistry, I think we can be much greater than the sum of the parts. As a member of the 10-17 and 11-17 teams, I'll HAPPILY take "only" 22 win seasons, "only" making it to the Sweet 16, and many of the other criterion that people seem to moping about.

Amen

[Jarhead]

Based on what I've read (and seen):

1. Coach K and the staff have learned in more detail the offensive strategies and schemes used by Mike D'Antoni and applied those in Duke's program
2. Coach K and the staff have learned in more detail the zone defense procedures and strategies used by Jim Boeheim and applied those occasionally in Duke games.
3. Coach K and the staff have seen first hand the commitment and work ethic of the top players in the world, and related that in a meaningful way to the Duke program
4. The Olympic experience seems to have energized Coach K, and may have added extra years to his overall coaching career (more years at Duke).

There may be more...
Yes, there are more. I'd say that we have received some recruiting commits from some pretty good guys that we may not otherwise have received. And K obviously thinks that the exposure helps him, his players and the whole University community. By the way, his commitment to USA Basketball is just for the Worlds in 2010 and the 0lympics in 2012. He won't be needed in 2011, since the team has already qualified for the London Games.

[airowe]

I'm having trouble getting your link to open for me, so apologies if I'm reading your excerpt incorrectly - but that sounds much more like someone being impressed with *Lebron's* accomplishments, not K's. It's not really the same thing.

Here's a valid link:

http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/high-school-wire/2009/07/dwight-powell-diary-lebron-james-skills-academy-day-1/

The premise is still the same in regards to your argument. You said:
For one thing, I don't think teenagers care about the Olympic team. Frankly, I'm not sure that very many *adults* really care about it beyond a passing patriotic interest.

Obviously, some teenagers do care about the Olympic team and the accomplishment of winning a Gold Medal resonates with them. Especially the kinds of kids Duke Basketball is interested in, top high school prospects.

I was just rebutting your statement from an earlier post. Look, I don't think K's Olympic commitment will effect or has effected Duke's program much one way or the other. That being said, recently winning a Gold medal is going to influence some prospects (and their parents) positively. Just as the time he didn't spend recruiting Boynton hurt our guard depth this year. The impact will be marginal one way or the other and it's no reason to start asking for pay cuts or to ask for an assistant to coach Duke while K coaches the Olympics (I know you didn't say this Matches, but some earlier posters did.)

[Matches]

I've talked with these kids extensively about their choice of colleges and about recruiting (a number were heavily recruited for music, including my son). Some like the idea of being pursued, having a representative there all the time to watch them. Others can't stand that, because it's oppressive and/or artificial, and surely that representative has other things to do! Some would LOVE a text from the Olympic coach from Beijing that name drops the major stars, or because he's on a book tour in NYC. Others would be turned off by such pompous gestures.

So, do I think that Coach K being the Olympic coach helps or hinders recruiting? Both. Does NOT coaching the Olympic program help or hinder? Both. For every recruit that thinks it's cool to get a call/text from the Olympics, there will be another that wants face time with the coach. And then there are the kids that none of that matters -- they want to take the classes they want (easy, hard, certain major) or want a particular location (beach, mountains, warm, snowy) or just "click" better somewhere else.



Thank you for your reply and your perspective. I do appreciate hearing from someone who actually deals with teenagers on a regular basis. Much of what you say IMO makes a lot of sense, and I'd hope no one would seriously dispute that there are all sorts of reasons why people pick colleges.

It's hard to come away from your post, though, with validation of the notion that K's Olympic experience is, as some has proffered, a net positive for Duke recruiting. It's equally difficult to come away with the notion that it's a net negative. All we can really do is look at the program before and after, and speculate. But leaving aside the "why's" of how we got here, our program isn't as strong now as it was 5-6 years ago. Not to say it isn't still strong, because it is - but 5-6 years ago the Final Four was a realistic hope (not a guarantee or an expectation - just a hope) more years than not - now not so much.


That was writen by one of the top big men in the country dwight powell.

He does not say Coach K anywhere but it mentions how great it must feel to accomplish that feat...and who was Lebrons Coach again.... It was the association with the fact that K was there and accomplished some great things with these players. It will echoe on the recruiting trails for years.

We'll just have to agree to disagree there. I just don't buy the notion that a teenager who wants to be like Lebron cares who coached him in the Olympics - just like I don't think they really care who coaches him in the NBA.

[Matches]

Obviously, some teenagers do care about the Olympic team and the accomplishment of winning a Gold Medal resonates with them. Especially the kinds of kids Duke Basketball is interested in, top high school prospects.



Not to play a semantic game with you, but K didn't win a gold medal. The coaches don't get medals. That may seem like a niggling difference, but I don't think it's an insignificant distinction. There's little doubt in my mind that the Olympic gold enhanced the public image and reputations of some of the *players* (Kobe comes immediately to mind) - but I think that, much like perception of the NBA, it's viewed more as an accomplishment by the players than the coach.

Contrast that with college bball, where programs are defined by their coaches, and where coaches receive a HUGE amount of credit for success. I just don't think that translates to the NBA or the international game.

[jv001]

We cannot know for sure if Coach K coaching our Gold Medal Team hurt, helped or had anything to do with our won-lost record or recruiting. What can help is the fact that we WON the Gold Medal and Coach K got plenty of recognition for that accomplishment. This with the naming of Coach K as the next Olympiic Coach should help our recruiting. Those that say young men do not pay attention to the Gold Medal games, Olympics and the other games that are played before the Olympics are not being realistic. High School BB players dream of playing in the NBA. They keep up with their favorite players. Even in the Olympics. So all I have to say is Go Coach K and USA. And Go Duke of course.

[Duke of Nashville]

We'll just have to agree to disagree there. I just don't buy the notion that a teenager who wants to be like Lebron cares who coached him in the Olympics - just like I don't think they really care who coaches him in the NBA.

I'll buy into that.

I was not saying he cared though. I said it was the association with those players that K had with the Olympics. One of the most widespread photos was the entire team surrounding K with their medals around his neck. I'd say that some of the players may have enjoyed that picture enough to use their salaries to get someone to frame it and put it on a wall were others could see it....i.e. the Lebron article by Powell. Something as miniscule as that may not influence someone to pick another college or but there can not be a negative side to having that potentially being seen by a recruit.

[Stray Gator]

Boynton, and as a result, our entire upcoming only-two-guards fiasco. About as tangible as you can get.

I like that K was the Olympic coach actually, but I also don't pretend it didn't have at least some short term negative effects.

Our overall decline in March, though, is clearly deeper than the Olympics. We haven't beaten a 4 seed or better in almost a decade, well before this olympic thing.

I'm aware of Boynton's recent comment, but my understanding from long before his verbal was that Boynton was almost certainly going to be a Gator regardless of anything that K and the Duke staff could have said or done. In attempting to land Boynton, Duke was faced with much more than an uphill battle--it was more like paddling upstream against a strong current, with Boynton's friends and family members all working in the background to hold back Duke's boat. As I said, we can only speculate; but I seriously doubt that K's time commitment to the Olympics made any difference in the outcome of the Boynton recruitment.

And for more from the "Department of Dire Speculation," I see that you have already resigned yourself to "our entire upcoming only-two-guards fiasco." I find it disappointing that some Duke fans have so little faith in Coach K and our players that they would be ready to predict doom. None of us can predict what this season will bring, but based on K's track record when faced with adversity, I'd bet that it won't be a "fiasco" by any reasonable standard.

[Duke of Nashville]

I'm aware of Boynton's recent comment, but my understanding from long before his verbal was that Boynton was almost certainly going to be a Gator regardless of anything that K and the Duke staff could have said or done. In attempting to land Boynton, Duke was faced with much more than an uphill battle--it was more like paddling upstream against a strong current, with Boynton's friends and family members all working in the background to hold back Duke's boat. As I said, we can only speculate; but I seriously doubt that K's time commitment to the Olympics made any difference in the outcome of the Boynton recruitment.

And for more from the "Depratment of Dire Speculation," I see that you have already resigned yourself to "our entire upcoming only-two-guards fiasco." I find it disappointing that some Duke fans have so little faith in Coach K and our players that they would be ready to predict doom. None of us can predict what this season will bring, but based on K's track record when faced with adversity, I'd bet that it won't be a "fiasco" by any reasonable standard.

That Optimism Thread was not very popular that popped up awhile ago...

[SupaDave]

We'll just have to agree to disagree there. I just don't buy the notion that a teenager who wants to be like Lebron cares who coached him in the Olympics - just like I don't think they really care who coaches him in the NBA.

These kids know WAY more about these coaches than most of us and have a lot of interaction with them. You think these guys don't know about how these coaches treat people? Ask one of them if they would like to play for P.J. Carlesimo and see what they say...

Right now with recruiting there's really only 10 coaches getting the top notch recruits and they are putting in a LOT of time. In some situations, the coaches are forced into catch 22 situations. Some kids like promises, some have other plans, some want fast development, some want to be close to home.

I mean just think about how many programs can blame not winning a national championship on getting a certain recruit....

[Turk]

Having Coach K head up the next Olympic team is wonderful news and a great honor, both for him and for Duke. Call me one-sided, but I submit that succesfully adapting Duke basketball principles to a collection of individual NBA stars while representing the country in worldwide competition is an accomplishment of the highest order.

I liked roywhite's list of reasons how this is a good thing for Duke long-term. I see how people are worried about short-term impact on recruiting and focus on Duke while K juggles both duties. It's a price worth paying, especially since the worst case is a top-tier finish in the ACC and an NCAA berth. I do not believe that any season that falls short of a Final Four is automatically a failure. The Holes will fall back and Duke will get better - this is all part of the natural ebb and flow of programs over time.

Here's a trivial anecdote: I have a friend who never liked Duke, especially "that coach who is a child of illegitimate birth and Eastern European ancestry bearing a strong resemblance to a rodent". (paraphrasing loosely, of course). After Beijing, he told me, "Turk, I hate to admit it, but I gotta give him a lot of respect - that was a great job, and you guys have a nice program down there."

[Wander]

I'm aware of Boynton's recent comment, but my understanding from long before his verbal was that Boynton was almost certainly going to be a Gator regardless of anything that K and the Duke staff could have said or done. In attempting to land Boynton, Duke was faced with much more than an uphill battle--it was more like paddling upstream against a strong current, with Boynton's friends and family members all working in the background to hold back Duke's boat. As I said, we can only speculate; but I seriously doubt that K's time commitment to the Olympics made any difference in the outcome of the Boynton recruitment.


I remember Florida being the favorite, but definitely not so far ahead of us that it was "almost certain" that he was going to Florida.



And for more from the "Department of Dire Speculation," I see that you have already resigned yourself to "our entire upcoming only-two-guards fiasco." I find it disappointing that some Duke fans have so little faith in Coach K and our players that they would be ready to predict doom.


I find it disappointing that you're resorting to the "you're not as good of a fan as me" implication. I have a crap ton of faith in most of our players (my opinion of Singler probably matches Vitale-Hansbrough and Jumbo-Scheyer levels). For reasons that are completely out of those players control and have been repeated many times, I think they've been put in a very bad situation. It has nothing to do with a lack of faith in the players or in-game coaching ability, and I'd appreciate it if you dropped that straw man stuff.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I remember Florida being the favorite, but definitely not so far ahead of us that it was "almost certain" that he was going to Florida.

I find it disappointing that you're resorting to the petty "you're not as good of a fan as me" implication. I have a crap ton of faith in most of our players
(my opinion of Singler probably matches Vitale-Hansbrough and Jumbo-Scheyer levels). For reasons that are completely out of those players control and have been repeated many times, I don't think they will be able to translate their talents into the March success that they're capable of in 2010.

Yeah, I find the "bad fan" arguments (and we've heard a lot of them lately from several posters including some mods) really disheartening and bordering on the prohibited "attacking the poster, not the post" area. Duke may be great or not great next season and the Olympics may help, hurt or have no effect, but the "holier than thou" attitude, IMO, has no place in any reasonable discussion.

[-jk]

We can all argue 'til we're blue in the face about the cause. I'll submit the NBA's mandated one-and-done rule, and the general acceptance that college is not a necessary part of the development of an NBA player, has much more to do with the recent level of play than K's Olympic duties.

-jk

[Stray Gator]

Yeah, I find the "bad fan" arguments (and we've heard a lot of them lately from several posters including some mods) really disheartening and bordering on the prohibited "attacking the poster, not the post" area. Duke may be great or not great next season and the Olympics may help, hurt or have no effect, but the "holier than thou" attitude, IMO, has no place in any reasonable discussion.

I'm not calling anyone a "bad fan." Nor am I suggesting that anyone is "holier" than anyone else. Nor am I "attacking" any poster. I'm merely saying that I'm disappointed by the constant complaining and criticism that has become so pervasive on this board.

You find it disheartening that some of us express disappointment with the negativity. I find the negativity itself disheartening.

I think about all the people who read this board to see what Duke fans are saying about the state of the program, about the coaches, about the players, and about the prospects for the upcoming season. We know for a fact that among those readers are current and past Duke players, prospective Duke recruits, members of the Duke coaching staff, and family members of all of the above. Try reading the board through their eyes, and I believe you'll understand why I'm expressing disappointment in the negative tone of recent posts.

I've stated quite clearly my position that, for those who want to complain about Coach K or other aspects of the Duke program: "That's your privilege, and you're certainly welcome to express that opinion." I merely asked that posters not "cross the line" by characterizing the posters who remain positive and supportive as "losing touch with reality," and "bordering on the absurd," and "foolish." Isn't it ironic that the only people here who are actually engaged in name-calling and trying to suppress the expression of opinions are those who protest that moderators and others who view the negative attitudes as disappointing are violating the rules by saying so?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

We can all argue 'til we're blue in the face about the cause. I'll submit the NBA's mandated one-and-done rule, and the general acceptance that college is not a necessary part of the development of an NBA player, has much more to do with the recent level of play than K's Olympic duties.

-jk

That's a great point and I think a lot of folks forget or minimize the cost that removing the ties between academic performance from NBA stock has had. That said, UNC is very similar to Duke in terms of academic demands, "family" atmosphere, etc. and they seem to be chugging along fairly well.

I guess my counter-submission is that K has been unable to keep up with the new realities of the NCAA because his attention has been divided. Roy has found a system that attracts and uses 1 and done guys (MWilliams, BWright) along with 2-3 year players (Lawson, Ellington) and solid four year guys (Thompson, Drew).

I don't think Duke is so unique that we aren't able to do the same, and I completely reject the idea that K is "too old" "out of touch" or whatever. K still has his fastball and the class of 2010 shows us what he can do when he's really focused on his full-time job.

I need to run, but I appreciate your addressing the issues rather than resorting to ad hominem attacks about "petulance" and "foot-stamping" SHPM's." We'll all be elated if Duke runs the table and K brings home a gold medal and an NCAA title. Everyone here is cheering for K and Duke to succeed.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I'm not calling anyone a "bad fan." Nor am I suggesting that anyone is "holier" than anyone else. Nor am I "attacking" any poster. I'm merely saying that I'm disappointed by the constant complaining and criticism that has become so pervasive on this board.

You find it disheartening that some of us express disappointment with the negativity. I find the negativity itself disheartening.

I think about all the people who read this board to see what Duke fans are saying about the state of the program, about the coaches, about the players, and about the prospects for the upcoming season. We know for a fact that among those readers are current and past Duke players, prospective Duke recruits, members of the Duke coaching staff, and family members of all of the above. Try reading the board through their eyes, and I believe you'll understand why I'm expressing disappointment in the negative tone of recent posts.

I've stated quite clearly my position that, for those who want to complain about Coach K or other aspects of the Duke program: "That's your privilege, and you're certainly welcome to express that opinion." I merely asked that posters not "cross the line" by characterizing the posters who remain positive and supportive as "losing touch with reality," and "bordering on the absurd," and "foolish." Isn't it ironic that the only people here who are actually engaged in name-calling and trying to suppress the expression of opinions are those who protest that moderators and others who view the negative attitudes as disappointing are violating the rules by saying so?

Sorry, didn't mean to single you out and if I gave you the impression that I was I apologize. I was speaking to a larger trend I've noticed where any concern about recent results has been dismissed out of hand by some. Respectfully, I do think there's been some name-calling on both sides.

In this thread alone we've got "selfish" "Embarrassment" "Blemish" "whining" "tragic" "pathetic" "moping" and the lovely "petulance and foot-stamping."

We've also had a whole lot of sarcastic strawmen suggesting that all the "SHPM's" are "ashamed of K." I've appreciated hearing many posters suggest reasons that the Olympics may harm/help the team and I definitely take the point that K has earned the right to sacrifice some of the success he's built at Duke to further his own sense of patriotism. I don't think dismissive tongue-clucking from posts that end with "(shakes head...)" do much to advance discussion or cast anyone in a very favorable light.

Anyway, I've said my piece and I've enjoyed hearing everyone else's certainly including yours. Let's all do our best to avoid personal attacks whether they be about "losing touch" or being "spoiled" and get back to talking about basketball. :)

[devil84]

It's hard to come away from your post, though, with validation of the notion that K's Olympic experience is, as some has proffered, a net positive for Duke recruiting. It's equally difficult to come away with the notion that it's a net negative. All we can really do is look at the program before and after, and speculate. But leaving aside the "why's" of how we got here, our program isn't as strong now as it was 5-6 years ago. Not to say it isn't still strong, because it is - but 5-6 years ago the Final Four was a realistic hope (not a guarantee or an expectation - just a hope) more years than not - now not so much.

You're right -- K's Olympic experience can be viewed as both a net positive and net negative regarding recruiting. People will gravitate to one side or the other and argue their side. I, however, see both sides -- because like our fans, the recruits are individuals and will choose to gravitate towards one side of the fence or the other. For some it's a positive, for others, a negative. Or they may not care about it at all, as they do/don't like the available classes, party atmosphere, weather, eating establishments, ratio of hot members of the opposite gender, brand of shoes worn by the team or whatever else is important to that 18 year old and his family (assuming that the family gets a vote in this important decision).

Is the program as strong as it was 5-6 years ago? It depends on your yardstick. I can argue that it is just as strong, and I can argue that it's weaker. Yes, we seem to be in a lurch with only two guards (four in practice) -- but I personally think that's selling the program short. Coach K relishes challenges, and there are quite a number of VERY talented players on that bench. Will it look like the Duke Basketball we're used to? Probably not. But will it be a good year? I think it will. Chemistry is a very potent tool. It's that which makes the whole far greater than the sum of the parts. Coach K's a pretty amazing chemist.

Are we still strong? I think so. Let's look at a single yardstick: number of times teams have made it to the Final Four.

Over the last six years:
- 2 teams have made it to the FF three times (UNC, UCLA)
- 4 have made it twice (Mich St, UConn, Kansas, Florida)
- 14 teams made it once, including Duke.
So the way I see it, using one yardstick (FF appearances), only 6 teams are better than Duke in the last 6 years.

Going back ten years:
- 2 made it 4 times (UNC, Mich St)
- 3 made it 3 times (KS, UCLA, Florida)
- 2 made it twice (Duke, UMD, UConn)

Going back 15 years:
- 1 made it 6 times (UNC, missed 1 NCAAT in 02)
- 1 made it 5 times (Mich St, missed NCAAT in 95, 96, 97)
- 4 made it 4 times (UCLA, missed NCAAT in 03, 04; Florida, missed NCAAT in 96, 97, 98, 08, 09; Arizona, has not missed NCAAT, but wins vacated in '99; Duke, missed NCAAT in 95).

What this tells me is that over time (decade or more) means that nobody makes it every other year (only 2 teams have done it in the last six years). And even if you do make it once every 4 years or less in 15 years, in which only 6 teams have done, you won't make the tourney every year in that period (except Arizona, but they had a year vacated). Of that elite group of six, Duke has the longest period of making the tourney. So, expecting to make the Final Four every other year, or even every third year, is a very, very exceptional feat and really is an unrealistic expectation. Over the past 15 years, there are 2 teams with a FF appearance record better than ours. Over the last six years, there are five with a record better than ours. OK, so we've slipped. But how far?

Some of the other big programs have had some slipups, too. Note that the team with the most Final Four appearances in 6/10/15 years had an 8-20 season in 2002. Our last 8 win season? 1926, when we went 8-12. And the last back-to-back National Champion (06 & 07) didn't make the tourney in 08 and 09.

Choose a measuring device. By those few I've cited, one can infer that Duke has slipped, or that Duke is still a top contender and is still in elite company.

I'd prefer to measure the success of the team by the product that they put on the floor instead of some arbitrary win/loss record or number of post season games. I'd be pretty happy with a team who solid team ball, plays hard, and enjoys the ride. I'd like to be entertained by some cool dunks, some amazing passes, and stifling defense; and that will come with solid team ball played intensely by players who enjoy what they're doing. Sure, wins are nice, as is post season play. But I have some pretty incredible memories of the '81-'84 seasons, and very few of those memories are based on the outcome of any game or season. IMHO, enjoy the journey instead of focusing on a destination. I'm pretty stoked about supporting the guys that chose to play for Duke next year.

[tele]

I suppose this now related to Duke basketball too: http://thequad.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/07/08/what-happens-at-lebron-camp/?ref=sports

[WhiteboardGuy]

While we can debate K personal involvement all we want (which in reality is like two weeks of camp in 2009 and 2011 and six weeks of competition in 2010 and 2012), the real issue at hand is that over the last four years the Duke basketball staff has been moonlighting as the operations staff for Team USA. We're talking everyone from assistant coaches to managers to video coordinators to back office folks have had to shoulder this additional workload on top of their Duke jobs. That, more than K's involvement, has been the biggest drain on the program's resources during this period and needs to be corrected going forward through the hiring of a dedicated USA Basketball staff that has no direct affiliation with the Duke program.

[ice-9]

That was writen by one of the top big men in the country dwight powell.

http://www.slamonline.com/online/college-hs/high-school/high-school-wire/2009/07/dwight-powell-diary-lebron-james-skills-academy-day-1/

He does not say Coach K anywhere but it mentions how great it must feel to accomplish that feat...and who was Lebrons Coach again.... It was the association with the fact that K was there and accomplished some great things with these players. It will echoe on the recruiting trails for years. It may have had some short term effects...like losing Boynton...but that would have been a hell of a steal from the state of Florida....

One of the top big men in the country...
6'9 and 220 pounds...
4.0 GPA...
Vanderbilt, California, UCLA, Stanford, Virginia and Harvard pursuing him...

Who is this kid? Are we recruiting him??

[jv001]

Some of us (I'm including myself) are most upset with the poor performance against our hated rival the tarholes. We should be excited and proud that we just had a 30 win season and an ACC Tournament Title. But what really has us upset is the fact that unc has been better than us for a while now. Most teams/fans would kill for a program like ours. I guess it's time for us to just get over it and realize that good college programs go thru stretches like this. We need to back our team, coaches and university and quit complaining about Coach K spending all his time with the Gold Medal team. He's given most of his adult life to Duke University and that requires time, energy and precious moments away from his family. I cannot look into a crystal ball and see what kind of season we will have this year, but if I was a betting person, I would bet the farm that it will be a very good year for Duke Basketball. Go Duke!

[Duke of Nashville]

One of the top big men in the country...
6'9 and 220 pounds...
4.0 GPA...
Vanderbilt, California, UCLA, Stanford, Virginia and Harvard pursuing him...

Who is this kid? Are we recruiting him??

I would guess we have our sights on a bigger recruits with Joshua Smith and Fab Melo. But the Kid sounds like he may be headed to ACC country with Virgina Clemson and VT showing interest.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/player?recruitId=66799&season=2010&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2finsider.espn.go.com%2fncb %2frecruiting%2ftracker%2fplayer%3frecruitId%3d667 99%26season%3d2010

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Some of us (I'm including myself) are most upset with the poor performance against our hated rival the tarholes. We should be excited and proud that we just had a 30 win season and an ACC Tournament Title. But what really has us upset is the fact that unc has been better than us for a while now. Most teams/fans would kill for a program like ours. I guess it's time for us to just get over it and realize that good college programs go thru stretches like this. We need to back our team, coaches and university and quit complaining about Coach K spending all his time with the Gold Medal team. He's given most of his adult life to Duke University and that requires time, energy and precious moments away from his family. I cannot look into a crystal ball and see what kind of season we will have this year, but if I was a betting person, I would bet the farm that it will be a very good year for Duke Basketball. Go Duke!

There's no doubt that watching UNC leave us so far behind has been extremely unpleasant, but I think the concern has more to do with our progress relative to recent results. I also don't agree with the assumption that "back[ing] our team" and "complaining about" recent results are mutually exclusive.

As an example, imagine that your son or daughter has been a straight-A student for years and suddenly starts bringing home B's and C's. There's nothing inherently wrong with B's (a lot of kids are struggling to bring home C's) and of course you'll love and support your kid no matter what grades they bring home; they're your kids after all.

But imagine if the same semester that grades started to slide your son or daughter had joined the track team and had to miss study groups, had to do their homework late at night after draining practices, etc. It seems reasonable to assume that the time and energy going to track has hurt their grades. Watching the school bully win national merit awards may sting. But the root issue of whether track is hurting grades seems pretty clear, so the conversation is whether or not a B- student track star is preferable to an A student without track (but with several other excellent extracurriculars). You'll support your kid no matter what they choose, but if you feel that they aren't living up to their potential in the classroom you may prefer that they focus a bit more on academics.

[devil84]

But imagine if the same semester that grades started to slide your son or daughter had joined the track team and had to miss study groups, had to do their homework late at night after draining practices, etc. It seems reasonable to assume that the time and energy going to track has hurt their grades. Watching the school bully win national merit awards may sting. But the root issue of whether track is hurting grades seems pretty clear, so the conversation is whether or not a B- student track star is preferable to an A student without track (but with several other excellent extracurriculars). You'll support your kid no matter what they choose, but if you feel that they aren't living up to their potential in the classroom you may prefer that they focus a bit more on academics.

Good point. However, to continue this analogy, as the straight A student progresses through school, the student may have also begun the AP courses or high honors courses at the same time as joining the track team. Or gotten stuck with that really bad student teacher. Or that teacher that LOVES group projects, and ensures that each group has one top performing, one low performing, and two mid performing kids thus ensuring B/C grades for all. Or that new curriculum that doesn't match the end of grade testing. Or maybe they got cocky and didn't think they had to study as hard because they've been doing well. Or that cute member of the opposite gender in first and third period caused a bit of a distraction.

Between the two of my kids, they've faced all of those -- including adding another sport/activity with grueling practices. The sport wound up NOT being the problem. In fact, we've studied the marching band kids, and for the 125 students in marching band with 3 days of 2.5 hour rehearsals, a Friday football game and a Saturday rehearsal or competition (usually 12-18 hours) for 3 months in fall semester, the average of their grades is always HIGHER in fall semester than in spring when they have far more free time to "study" (make that, "fritter away"). Sometimes making a key person busier will cause much better time management, particularly if they are fulfilled.

The analogies for basketball? We've had recruits not perform up to expectations, leave for unforeseen family reasons, redshirt for medical reasons, get injured, and leave early for the NBA. Other teams (particularly that baby blue one down the road) have had some really fortuitous situations, where everybody returns instead of leaping to the NBA.

I just don't think that that the ONLY difference in the last three years over the previous three is that Coach K coached the Olympic team. I think there are other factors that have impacted the Duke team and our opponents as well.

[SupaDave]

I just don't think that that the ONLY difference in the last three years over the previous three is that Coach K coached the Olympic team. I think there are other factors that have impacted the Duke team and our opponents as well.

Exactly...

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Good point. However, to continue this analogy, as the straight A student progresses through school, the student may have also begun the AP courses or high honors courses at the same time as joining the track team. Or gotten stuck with that really bad student teacher. Or that teacher that LOVES group projects, and ensures that each group has one top performing, one low performing, and two mid performing kids thus ensuring B/C grades for all. Or that new curriculum that doesn't match the end of grade testing. Or maybe they got cocky and didn't think they had to study as hard because they've been doing well. Or that cute member of the opposite gender in first and third period caused a bit of a distraction.

Between the two of my kids, they've faced all of those -- including adding another sport/activity with grueling practices. The sport wound up NOT being the problem. In fact, we've studied the marching band kids, and for the 125 students in marching band with 3 days of 2.5 hour rehearsals, a Friday football game and a Saturday rehearsal or competition (usually 12-18 hours) for 3 months in fall semester, the average of their grades is always HIGHER in fall semester than in spring when they have far more free time to "study" (make that, "fritter away"). Sometimes making a key person busier will cause much better time management, particularly if they are fulfilled.

The analogies for basketball? We've had recruits not perform up to expectations, leave for unforeseen family reasons, redshirt for medical reasons, get injured, and leave early for the NBA. Other teams (particularly that baby blue one down the road) have had some really fortuitous situations, where everybody returns instead of leaping to the NBA.

I just don't think that that the ONLY difference in the last three years over the previous three is that Coach K coached the Olympic team. I think there are other factors that have impacted the Duke team and our opponents as well.

No doubt there have been many factors involved. All I'm arguing is that one of the main factors has been the Olympics. For me the timeline is just too direct to ignore: dominance until 2004, then four years of falling back. Maybe it's an amazing coincidence and we can chalk everything up to bad luck, but that just seems improbable to me.

Further, all those other factors could have been addressed and their harm minimized if our leader and his entire staff hadn't been otherwise occupied. Kids get sick because they are exposed to germs, not because they don't get sleep. But a very, very tired kid is MUCH more susceptible to illness. Duke had transfers, illness, early entry, etc. from 1998-2004 as well. It just didn't knock us back the way it has since K has been part-time.

Again, if you, or anyone doesn't think that the Olympics have been a problem, that's fine. Reasonable minds can differ and there's never going to be any way to "prove" anything. I very much hope that this is the dawn of a new golden age where we sweep UNC, win titles, and K gets another gold. I'll be the first one here to say that I was wrong and I'll do it with a great big smile on my face. But if those things don't happen, particularly in light of how things were before K started the Olympics, I hope you can understand why a lot of fans think it's having an adverse effect.

[BlueintheFace]

We can all argue 'til we're blue in the face
-jk

Is there any other way to argue?;)

[-jk]

Is there any other way to argue?;)

With you, apparently not. ;)

-jk

[Scorp4me]

I love reading the comments on other sites, usually those at the bottom of articles linked from this site. One mentioned that Duke hasn't seen a spike in recruiting because the last 4 classes (which according to the article were all around the top 10) were no higher than the previous recruiting classes. Hard to move significantly up when there is so little room to move up.

The point is what little negative we see from the Olympics will be more than made up for in the coming years. Recruiting has changed and I just don't see the Olympics as the reason we don't get classes like Williams/Boozer and Williams/JJ anymore.

But I digress the part I love are the comments from Carolina fans stating how negatively this will affect Duke and how concerned they are for the state of Duke basketball. They're enjoying it as well they should, but they seem to know better than we do what is coming. I hope Roy if enjoying it while he can too =)

[devil84]

Again, if you, or anyone doesn't think that the Olympics have been a problem, that's fine. Reasonable minds can differ and there's never going to be any way to "prove" anything. I very much hope that this is the dawn of a new golden age where we sweep UNC, win titles, and K gets another gold. I'll be the first one here to say that I was wrong and I'll do it with a great big smile on my face. But if those things don't happen, particularly in light of how things were before K started the Olympics, I hope you can understand why a lot of fans think it's having an adverse effect.

I can see how fans think it's having an adverse affect. But I'm quite surprised that the way a number of posts are phrase to indicate that the program is in a terrible state. Last season was 30-7, ACC Tournament Champions, and a Sweet 16 appearance -- is that really a terrible year? Could that have happened even without Coach K coaching the Olympics? Attempt to have this conversation with, say, a State fan (I live in Raleigh). They just don't see the decline. They'd give their right arm for our "decline" -- and this is the fan base that drove Herb Sendek away with similar arguments about not being able to beat UNC.

Like you say, reasonable minds can differ. We will not reach a consensus on such a small data sample and too many variables that contribute to wins and losses. I'm in the camp that there are pros and cons to Coach K coaching the Olympics, and given the new look to the offense and defense, and a very rejuvenated Coach K, that the pros outweigh the cons. And that whatever decline is slight, and can be caused by quite a number of other factors.

I think that while many people may rightly question whether Coach K can coach both Duke and the Olympics, many Duke fans are fairly satisfied with the results. Sure, we'd all like more wins -- who wouldn't? But, IMHO, the glass is pretty full as opposed to a little bit missing. We may just have to agree to disagree on this. :)

Then again, my view may be colored by the fact that maybe I took just a little bit too much pleasure in hearing a more than a few Tar Heel fans admit that Coach K isn't as bad as they thought and he did a great job with the Olympic team. :D I wouldn't mind hearing that again in four years!

[weezie]

Then again, my view may be colored by the fact that maybe I took just a little bit too much pleasure in hearing a more than a few Tar Heel fans admit that Coach K isn't as bad as they thought and he did a great job with the Olympic team. :D I wouldn't mind hearing that again in four years!

True that. It was a pretty tasty dish knowing that for once the haters couldn't bleat and churn over K's obvious superiority and overall excellence. The heels just had to sit there at take it. Yay!

[JonPessah]

Prediction: K will leave Duke before the first game of the 2012 Olympic Games.

[roywhite]

Is the poster the author of this?

Good news for Greg Doyel since he's now been surpassed as a fact-challenged Duke/Coach K hater.

[Duvall]

Prediction: K will leave Duke before the first game of the 2012 Olympic Games. [URL="http://jonpessah.com/2009/07/10/krzyzewski-and-the-olympics/"]

Well, I hope so. I doubt that any of the London Games will be played in Cameron.

[msdukie]

Well, I hope so. I doubt that any of the London Games will be played in Cameron.

Why not, I thought we were taking over the universe?

[NSDukeFan]

If K takes the staff to London with him, and/or they work with him the other summers for the Olympics, I hope he leaves Dawkins around to do some recruiting. Who needs anyone else?;)

[Kfanarmy]

I think the argument that there has been No negative impact to Duke BB of Coach K leading the Olympic team is hard to fathom. Given the, often slight, difference in performance between say the number 1 seeds and number 2 seeds prior to the tourney, but the often large difference in difficulty created by seeding, you would really have to ignore the simple mathematics of number of hours available in a work year and the impact of taking the focus of a significant number of those (say 10%) hours away for another endeavor. Clearly most on this board believe K is one of the best coaches to ever coach the college game, myself included. How can one believe this and at the same time believe that having someone else perform a significant amount of his responsibilities while he serves USA basketball could not be the difference in seeding in the tournament? In one more win?
I completely support the decision to coach USA basketball. In my mind, he brings respect to the team and demands that, the oft boorish, NBA players represent the USA with some dignity whether USA BB wins or not…and that is worth the difference in sweet 16-elite 8 for me, but I can understand where it causes consternation for some…and I can’t buy that somehow Duke gets better recruits than it did prior to 2004 because of the gold medals, that one or two lost recruits couldn’t have been recruited, that team chemistry and skills couldn’t have been improved that little bit necessary to gain a higher tourney seed or one more win…even if the best coach in the land focused all of his coaching hours on Duke vice Duke and USA basketball.

[SupaDave]

Questions - do you think Coach K 'texted' Elton Brand as he does some of our other recruits? Do you ever recall Johnny Dawkins 'twittering'? When was the last time Duke Basketball had such an interactive website - showcasing THEIR athletes? How old is that new practice facility again? Didn't the coaching staff just get younger and more active? Didn't Coach K pull off one of his greatest coaching performances last year and appear to be loving the game more and more?

Yep, and this my friends is the new world of college recruiting. Just look around you. Coaches are selling more than just relationships nowadays. To sit there and think that a VERY structured schedule of Olympic planning takes away from his Duke activities enough that we lose certain kids is not taking into account what Coack K and staff have been doing the last few years.

Not just that but if McRoberts stays for four years then most of your entire arguments would be moot. But that didn't happen and yet we've progressed tremendously as a program. If all you can see is just the win-loss column then you need to change your perspective a little.

[SupaDave]

By the way, just the fact that Coach K is mentioned in this article is proof that the Olympics have helped...

http://www.slamonline.com/online/col...-city-classic/

[Wander]

Questions - do you think Coach K 'texted' Elton Brand as he does some of our other recruits? Do you ever recall Johnny Dawkins 'twittering'? When was the last time Duke Basketball had such an interactive website - showcasing THEIR athletes? How old is that new practice facility again? Didn't the coaching staff just get younger and more active? Didn't Coach K pull off one of his greatest coaching performances last year and appear to be loving the game more and more?

Yep, and this my friends is the new world of college recruiting. Just look around you. Coaches are selling more than just relationships nowadays. To sit there and think that a VERY structured schedule of Olympic planning takes away from his Duke activities enough that we lose certain kids is not taking into account what Coack K and staff have been doing the last few years.

Not just that but if McRoberts stays for four years then most of your entire arguments would be moot. But that didn't happen and yet we've progressed tremendously as a program. If all you can see is just the win-loss column then you need to change your perspective a little.

Our basketball program has progressed tremendously because it has a new website and Nolan twitters? Our recruiting does look very good for 2010 but this stuff seems completely irrelevant to me.

The comment about McRoberts is like me saying "If Grant Hill stayed for twenty years, then your entire arguments would be moot." McRoberts was never staying for four years and the coaches knew it and planned for it.

And no, of course Coach K did not pull off one of his greatest coaching performances last year. I've never heard of anyone who thinks that. Off the top of my head, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1994, 1992, 1991, and 1986 were all better coaching jobs by K. I'm sure others can nominate their own years.

[SupaDave]

Our basketball program has progressed tremendously because it has a new website and Nolan twitters? Our recruiting does look very good for 2010 but this stuff seems completely irrelevant to me.

The comment about McRoberts is like me saying "If Grant Hill stayed for twenty years, then your entire arguments would be moot." McRoberts was never staying for four years and the coaches knew it and planned for it.

And no, of course Coach K did not pull off one of his greatest coaching performances last year. I've never heard of anyone who thinks that. Off the top of my head, 2008, 2006, 2005, 2004, 2001, 2000, 1999, 1994, 1992, 1991, and 1986 were all better coaching jobs by K. I'm sure others can nominate their own years.

Well if you want to look at it like that then no - we haven't done a thing to keep up with recruiting. We suck. I'm sure recruits think that when they get to work out in an NBA level facility.

And I'm not sure where you've been but last season's roster changes, getting a freshmen up to speed, losing your point guard to a concussion in the home stretch, along with adapting to playing without a big man were applauded by many. Even funnier is that when Roy has good seasons we blame it on having 'lottery picks' but when Coach K does it with one lottery pick it's not one of his best seasons? We even find a way to discredit the ACC Championship around here.

Coaches are judged on wins but it's also the quality of a season. I don't see anyone here that wants to put a bunch of patsies on the schedule so what the team has been doing is truly being under appreciated at this time.

As a matter of fact, this is a recurring theme. Here's a walk down memory lane..

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/articles/?p=24637

[devil84]

Our basketball program has progressed tremendously because it has a new website and Nolan twitters? Our recruiting does look very good for 2010 but this stuff seems completely irrelevant to me.

The fact that coaches and players text, twitter, and facebook as well as having a cool website presence may be irrelevant to you, but I can guarantee that the average high school kid positively LIVES for texting, facebooking, and all kinds of videos. This is how teens communicate today, and if you understand this and can communicate with teens this way, you will be considered a revered adult. And teens will spend hours watching good video. Heck, they'll spend even more watching stupid video *sigh,* but the "cool" videos are posted and shared via facebook at warp speed.

Most anyone over, oh, 23 probably will consider this stupid. But, as the parent of an 18 year old who was recruited, this is simply vital to teenagers. As a "cool" parent (proclaimed by students other than my own children) who texts and facebooks with teenagers, there isn't any other way to communicate with them. They always want me to video tape their performances and post them on fb. Don't bother calling them...they won't always answer their cell phone. Leave a voice mail and they'll text you back.

Anyone who wants to get the attention of a teenager had better be proficient at texting, tweeting, messaging, and sharing vids.

[Wander]

The fact that coaches and players text, twitter, and facebook as well as having a cool website presence may be irrelevant to you, but I can guarantee that the average high school kid positively LIVES for texting, facebooking, and all kinds of videos. This is how teens communicate today, and if you understand this and can communicate with teens this way, you will be considered a revered adult. And teens will spend hours watching good video. Heck, they'll spend even more watching stupid video *sigh,* but the "cool" videos are posted and shared via facebook at warp speed.

Most anyone over, oh, 23 probably will consider this stupid. But, as the parent of an 18 year old who was recruited, this is simply vital to teenagers. As a "cool" parent (proclaimed by students other than my own children) who texts and facebooks with teenagers, there isn't any other way to communicate with them. They always want me to video tape their performances and post them on fb. Don't bother calling them...they won't always answer their cell phone. Leave a voice mail and they'll text you back.

Anyone who wants to get the attention of a teenager had better be proficient at texting, tweeting, messaging, and sharing vids.

That's all fair. I do think there's a difference between having the website vs coaches directly texting kids, but no biggie. You're right.

[Wander]

Well if you want to look at it like that then no - we haven't done a thing to keep up with recruiting. We suck. I'm sure recruits think that when they get to work out in an NBA level facility.


I made no mention of the facilities, nor did I even say or even imply that "we suck." In fact, I made it quite clear I think our recruiting for 2010 looks very good.



And I'm not sure where you've been but last season's roster changes, getting a freshmen up to speed, losing your point guard to a concussion in the home stretch, along with adapting to playing without a big man were applauded by many. Even funnier is that when Roy has good seasons we blame it on having 'lottery picks' but when Coach K does it with one lottery pick it's not one of his best seasons? We even find a way to discredit the ACC Championship around here.


Your argument has no logic to it whatsoever. The first three things you listed - roster changes, freshman involvement, and injuries - happen almost every single season to almost every single team in the country. In fact, we probably had roster changes and freshmen involvement that were lower than average. Injuries seemed about average to me. There's room to disagree on the last one. I thought coach did a pretty solid but not spectacular job in playing without a big man - solid because he made us a good rebounding team, not spectacular because I thought more could have done more to develop Plumlee. Again, reasonable people can disagree there, but at least three of the four factors you listed are irrelevant, so I don't understand how you can possibly call it one of the best coaching jobs he's done.

And I never mentioned Roy. His success doesn't affect how I think we should run our team a single bit.

And I don't even know what the heck you're talking about when you say I'm discrediting an ACC championship. I'm very proud of the guys for winning that.

Given that Coach K has won about 1 trillion ACC championships, that can't be the primary basis for calling last season one of his greatest coaching jobs.

Finally - just for the record, as I don't think this is a particularly important point - I don't know that we only had one lottery pick, and neither do you. I have a lot of faith in Singler, and I'm not sure Elliot can't play his way up there by the end of his college career either.

[SupaDave]

I made no mention of the facilities, nor did I even say or even imply that "we suck." In fact, I made it quite clear I think our recruiting for 2010 looks very good.



Your argument has no logic to it whatsoever. The first three things you listed - roster changes, freshman involvement, and injuries - happen almost every single season to almost every single team in the country. In fact, we probably had roster changes and freshmen involvement that were lower than average. Injuries seemed about average to me. There's room to disagree on the last one. I thought coach did a pretty solid but not spectacular job in playing without a big man - solid because he made us a good rebounding team, not spectacular because I thought more could have done more to develop Plumlee. Again, reasonable people can disagree there, but at least three of the four factors you listed are irrelevant, so I don't understand how you can possibly call it one of the best coaching jobs he's done.

And I never mentioned Roy. His success doesn't affect how I think we should run our team a single bit.

And I don't even know what the heck you're talking about when you say I'm discrediting an ACC championship. I'm very proud of the guys for winning that.

Given that Coach K has won about 1 trillion ACC championships, that can't be the primary basis for calling last season one of his greatest coaching jobs.

Finally - just for the record, as I don't think this is a particularly important point - I don't know that we only had one lottery pick, and neither do you. I have a lot of faith in Singler, and I'm not sure Elliot can't play his way up there by the end of his college career either.

Really? Well some of this you're taking way too literally for sure. The Roy comparsion may not have been directly for you but other posters have outright admitted their envy for a certain other shade of blue.

The rest? Well, let's see. This year we did have only one lottery pick - no one else entered their name in the draft. Coach K DOES appreciate each and every ACC championship near and dear to his heart b/c of the various challenges associated with each of them.

As far as Plumlee goes, he was a late commit and probably wouldn't have even started at Stanford. As evidenced by this year's off-season he had a lot of filling out to do. You can have the skills but for some players to be effective at what they do they also need the strength. I would probably compare his freshmen year to something like G's where you can see the potential but everything's not clicking just yet. I think none of this takes away from Coach K putting together a great season and actually enjoying it with his guys...

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Really? Well some of this you're taking way too literally for sure. The Roy comparsion may not have been directly for you but other posters have outright admitted their envy for a certain other shade of blue.

Carolina, as a program, is in much better shape than we are. They are recruiting better, winning more games, winning more head-to-head, and they've won 2 titles since we beat them at Cameron. If we can't even recognize such objectively-obvious facts as these I'm not sure how we can have a meaningful conversation about college basketball. Should football fans not "envy" Florida and should Cut not want to get us where they are? Cheering for your team shouldn't make you blind to its faults or to the success of its rivals. That's not being a fan, that's being myopic.


The rest? Well, let's see. This year we did have only one lottery pick - no one else entered their name in the draft.

By that logic 1991 had NO lottery picks, so K's job then must have been REALLY amazing to take that bunch of scrubs to a title.


Coach K DOES appreciate each and every ACC championship near and dear to his heart b/c of the various challenges associated with each of them.

No doubt. But I'm happy to say that K won the ACC tournament in 1986, 1988, 1992, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, and 2009. It's hard to say that K's greatest coaching job happened in about a third of his seasons and have "greatest" mean very much. In any event, if last season was one of K's greatest, doesn't that suggest that getting away from the Olympics did him some good? :confused:

[Gargoyle]

John Feinstein doesn't think much of K coaching the Olympic team.

http://web.me.com/tedlivingston/Feinstein_On_The_Brink/BLOG/Entries/2009/7/10_Coach_K_and_2012_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Great_for_U SA_Basketball%2C_Not_So_for_Duke%2C_Himself.html

[roywhite]

John Feinstein doesn't think much of K coaching the Olympic team.

http://web.me.com/tedlivingston/Feinstein_On_The_Brink/BLOG/Entries/2009/7/10_Coach_K_and_2012_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Great_for_U SA_Basketball%2C_Not_So_for_Duke%2C_Himself.html

I hope John recovers well from his bypass surgery, but I have no regard for his opinion or analysis on anything involving Duke.

[arnie]

I hope John recovers well from his bypass surgery, but I have no regard for his opinion or analysis on anything involving Duke.

The Feinstein blog appears well thought out and does not attack K in any way. Its his opinion and one that is shared by many of us.

Some of Feinstein's opinions have been right on - Alleva;

Others on Duke lacrosse, etc. have been wrong and unecessarily hateful toward Duke.

[sagegrouse]

During the Wake Forest game on January 28, Dick Vitale mentioned a conversation he had with K. Vitale paraphrased K as saying that he was not able to take a break because of the Olympics and, consequently, was more worn out than usual at that point in the season.
So, at least this past season, being an Olympic coach apparently did affect K's health and I would assume his performance as Duke's head coach.

I think this is a Vitale invention because it has never appeared from any other source. Can't you just see vitale in a one-on-one just trying anything to get K to admit he is tired?

BTW the NCAA rules give coaches a lot of time off by so severely limiting contact outside of the regular season. Suppose virtuoso violinst Joshua Bell was in the Duke music department, and the violin students were told that they could only have daily lessons with Bell from October to April?

sagegrouse
'Sorry that my posting has fallen off. This is still breeding season, and my duties at the grouse lek are taking much of my time.'

'Yay, yay, yay! Number 777!'

[SoCalDukeFan]

BTW the NCAA rules give coaches a lot of time off by so severely limiting contact outside of the regular season. Suppose virtuoso violinst Joshua Bell was in the Duke music department, and the violin students were told that they could only have daily lessons with Bell from October to April?



I expect that all coaches take some time off for vacation, etc. However I would also guess that in the down period most coaches are looking at film, checking out recruits, maybe film of recruits, maybe overseas recruiting etc etc.

SoCal

[SoCalDukeFan]

I hope John recovers well from his bypass surgery, but I have no regard for his opinion or analysis on anything involving Duke.

I have had my problems with Feinstein in the past regarding Duke.

However I think much of what he said here is correct.

The big unknown is if the Olympic stint helps or hurts Duke recruiting. Obviously some time that Coach K could have devoted to recruiting will be spent on the Olympics. And obviously some coaches will use K's time commitment to recruit against him as Feinstein suggests. However K will be able to use his experience with coaching NBA stars as a positive in recruiting. I would also hope that maybe Duke will get some international recruits out of this.

I personally think that biggest unknown is what does K do as a 65 year old in 2012 with two gold medals and 3 or more NC's.

SoCal

[gumbomoop]

Didn't want to start a whole new thread, but thought to pass the following K-tribute on to this board. If by chance Al Franken isn't your favorite Senator, nor even your fav comedy writer, then simply put his words into the mouth of, oh, I don't know, Mitch McConnell or Jim Bunning [there's a joke there.....]

The tribute comes at very end of article, so if Al's politics or comedy makes you wanna throw up, just glide right on down to the final paragraph. OTOH, should you admire Al even somewhat less than K, why the entire article is worth your time.

Here's link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/12/AR2009071202209.html

[4decadedukie]

DBR’s 14 July front-page features a Feinstein piece criticizing Coach K for (apparently) again accepting the 2012 Olympic head-coaching job (here’s a URL that works: http://web.me.com/tedlivingston/Feinstein_On_The_Brink/BLOG/Entries/2009/7/10_Coach_K_and_2012_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Great_for_U SA_Basketball%2C_Not_So_for_Duke%2C_Himself.html).

I dissent, although I realize many Dukies -- perhaps, especially including DBR participants -- will disagree with me. Coach K is sixty-two and, by any metrics, has had a fabulous successful career, which has done at least as much to benefit the Duke community and Duke University (and its many, varied constituencies) as ANY other individual. When (if ever) does an person reach the situation -- in terms of age, successes, aspirations, reputation, contributions, and so forth -- that he is permitted to establish his own professional objectives and agenda? I respectfully suggest that K has long-ago reached that point (and, by the way, I’m only a few months older than he, so I truly understand how important this can be). Even if this means Duke Basketball receives less than his unlimited attention -- and I am not at all certain this is factually established -- K has EARNED the right pursue the goals that he perceives as most valuable. Further, when Duke extended a lifetime contract to Mike Krzyzewski, I believe we -- institutionally -- sanctioned that very type of decision.

I wish Coach K well and I am CERTAIN he will continue to represent himself and his family, Duke, college basketball, and the United States with great professionalism, integrity, leadership and farsightedness.

[whereinthehellami]

Feinstein is annoying and full of himself. I'm not a big fan of all the journalists/writers who think they are rock stars.

[miramar]

Feinstein is annoying and full of himself.

Yes, and he's also full of something else.

My favorite line in the piece (of precisely that substance): "if I had a nickel for every time someone said to me, ‘you’re a pretty good guy for a Duke guy,’ I would be long-retired."

I would say he's pretty %#@*# for a Duke guy, but I propose we start collecting nickels so that we can advance that retirement date.

He does have a point when he writes that, "Duke has not—NOT—been getting the kind of player it got during the Golden Years." Nevertheless, I would say that McRoberts, Paulus, Boateng, Williams, Deng, Livingston, Humphreys, etc. were precisely the kind of guys who were supposed to be like the Duke players of old, but they did not develop as expected (or left or didn't show up) for a variety of reasons, none of which are related to the Olympics.

He says he's a friend of Coach K, but with buddies like that...

I'm not sure if this URL will work, but if you do a google search of the citation above, including the quotation marks, you'll get it:

http://web.me.com/tedlivingston/Feinstein_On_The_Brink/BLOG/Entries/2009/7/10_Coach_K_and_2012_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Great_for_U SA_Basketball,_Not_So_for_Duke,_Himself.html

[jafarr1]

Feinstein isn't a Duke guy. Sure, the name of the school on his degree is Duke, but he hasn't been a Duke guy for a long time.

He may get this one right in some people's eyes, but the problem is that his opinion means about as much to me as an Ann Coulter opinion about what is wrong with Democrats or an Arianna Huffington opinion about what is wrong with Republicans. I don't care, because I know which side of the fence he's coming down on before I even open the article.

My time is too valuable to read an opinion constructed to support a set of biases. I'm certainly not supporting that person by clicking on one of his links, and I'll likely read a similar opinion from somebody who actually considered both sides of the issue before coming to a conclusion.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

DBR’s 14 July front-page features a Feinstein piece criticizing Coach K for (apparently) again accepting the 2012 Olympic head-coaching job (here’s a URL that works: http://web.me.com/tedlivingston/Feinstein_On_The_Brink/BLOG/Entries/2009/7/10_Coach_K_and_2012_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Great_for_U SA_Basketball%2C_Not_So_for_Duke%2C_Himself.html).

I dissent, although I realize many Dukies -- perhaps, especially including DBR participants -- will disagree with me. Coach K is sixty-two and, by any metrics, has had a fabulous successful career, which has done at least as much to benefit the Duke community and Duke University (and its many, varied constituencies) as ANY other individual. When (if ever) does an person reach the situation -- in terms of age, successes, aspirations, reputation, contributions, and so forth -- that he is permitted to establish his own professional objectives and agenda? I respectfully suggest that K has long-ago reached that point (and, by the way, I’m only a few months older than he, so I truly understand how important this can be). Even if this means Duke Basketball receives less than his unlimited attention -- and I am not at all certain this is factually established -- K has EARNED the right pursue the goals that he perceives as most valuable. Further, when Duke extended a lifetime contract to Mike Krzyzewski, I believe we -- institutionally -- sanctioned that very type of decision.

I wish Coach K well and I am CERTAIN he will continue to represent himself and his family, Duke, college basketball, and the United States with great professionalism, integrity, leadership and farsightedness.

I'm 100% in agreement with this sentiment. Although I do think it's been pretty well-established that the Olympics have been harmful to Duke basketball (and I hope everyone understands why a great class of 2010 is not evidence to the contrary) I also think that K has earned the right to do that harm in exchange for the positives that the Olympics bring to himself, to Duke University and to the nation. Whether or not I (or anyone) agrees with the decision, we definitely need to support it.

I also agree that Feinstein's opinion is immaterial. The closest I've been to agreeing with the decision was when I heard Feinstein oppose it. ;)

[johnb]

DBR’s 14 July front-page features a Feinstein piece criticizing Coach K for (apparently) again accepting the 2012 Olympic head-coaching job (here’s a URL that works: http://web.me.com/tedlivingston/Feinstein_On_The_Brink/BLOG/Entries/2009/7/10_Coach_K_and_2012_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Great_for_U SA_Basketball%2C_Not_So_for_Duke%2C_Himself.html).

I dissent, although I realize many Dukies -- perhaps, especially including DBR participants -- will disagree with me. Coach K is sixty-two and, by any metrics, has had a fabulous successful career, which has done at least as much to benefit the Duke community and Duke University (and its many, varied constituencies) as ANY other individual. When (if ever) does an person reach the situation -- in terms of age, successes, aspirations, reputation, contributions, and so forth -- that he is permitted to establish his own professional objectives and agenda? I respectfully suggest that K has long-ago reached that point (and, by the way, I’m only a few months older than he, so I truly understand how important this can be). Even if this means Duke Basketball receives less than his unlimited attention -- and I am not at all certain this is factually established -- K has EARNED the right pursue the goals that he perceives as most valuable. Further, when Duke extended a lifetime contract to Mike Krzyzewski, I believe we -- institutionally -- sanctioned that very type of decision.

I wish Coach K well and I am CERTAIN he will continue to represent himself and his family, Duke, college basketball, and the United States with great professionalism, integrity, leadership and farsightedness.


I agree. Though it's hard to tell such things in advance or in retrospect, what's best for Duke may not be best for K, and one of the great things about the system is that HE has earned the right to choose. I'd say similar things about Henderson and the other guys who have left early; they don't owe us anything, and, if they did, they could be said to owe us that year's worth of effort, but nothing more.

[NSDukeFan]

I'm 100% in agreement with this sentiment. Although I do think it's been pretty well-established that the Olympics have been harmful to Duke basketball (and I hope everyone understands why a great class of 2010 is not evidence to the contrary) I also think that K has earned the right to do that harm in exchange for the positives that the Olympics bring to himself, to Duke University and to the nation. Whether or not I (or anyone) agrees with the decision, we definitely need to support it.

I also agree that Feinstein's opinion is immaterial. The closest I've been to agreeing with the decision was when I heard Feinstein oppose it. ;)

I agree with the sentiment of most of your post, except for the bolded part. I would say it's been pretty well-established (over and over and over again on this board) that there are a lot of differing views that cannot easily be proven in regards to the impact of the Olympics on Duke basketball, both short-term and long-term. And I certainly do not understand why a great class of 2010 would not be evidence (as much as any evidence of the other opinion) that the Olympics have not harmed Duke's recruiting and may have helped it.

I do agree with the general sentiment of your post and 4decadedukie.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I agree with the sentiment of most of your post, except for the bolded part. I would say it's been pretty well-established (over and over and over again on this board) that there are a lot of differing views that cannot easily be proven in regards to the impact of the Olympics on Duke basketball, both short-term and long-term. And I certainly do not understand why a great class of 2010 would not be evidence (as much as any evidence of the other opinion) that the Olympics have not harmed Duke's recruiting and may have helped it.

I do agree with the general sentiment of your post and 4decadedukie.

I do think that the harm has been well-established, but I also see that many others do not. As such I was stating my view on that controversial subject (just as 4decadedukie did) "for the record" as it were and moving on.

As for 2010, recruiting is generally a result of what happens in the 2 years or so before a class comes in (when the staff is attending camps, making connections, getting LOI's, etc). As such, if it is a referendum on anything it speaks to our efforts in 2008 and especially 2009. Since those were the years when K was NOT coaching the Olympics, success speaks only to how well we do without that (potential) distraction. It would be like seeing a better economy in late 2010 and saying "See, the Bush tax cuts in 2007 were really a good idea after all. Bush was great and anyone who questioned him looks foolish now."

It also leaves aside the fact that we were bringing in amazing classes before the Olympics. A great class post-Olympics would have to be better than the Killer B's, Selected 6, etc. in order to show that we'd seen any advantage, and that would be pretty tough to do.

Anyway, I really didn't mean to start this up again. I was irked by the incorrect assumption on the front page so I slipped that in. The usual "agree to disagree" applies. My main point, that we all support K no matter what the cost, is where I meant to focus.

[NSDukeFan]

I do think that the harm has been well-established, but I also see that many others do not. As such I was stating my view on that controversial subject (just as 4decadedukie did) "for the record" as it were and moving on.

As for 2010, recruiting is generally a result of what happens in the 2 years or so before a class comes in (when the staff is attending camps, making connections, getting LOI's, etc). As such, if it is a referendum on anything it speaks to our efforts in 2008 and especially 2009. Since those were the years when K was NOT coaching the Olympics, success speaks only to how well we do without that (potential) distraction. It would be like seeing a better economy in late 2010 and saying "See, the Bush tax cuts in 2007 were really a good idea after all. Bush was great and anyone who questioned him looks foolish now."

It also leaves aside the fact that we were bringing in amazing classes before the Olympics. A great class post-Olympics would have to be better than the Killer B's, Selected 6, etc. in order to show that we'd seen any advantage, and that would be pretty tough to do.

Anyway, I really didn't mean to start this up again. I was irked by the incorrect assumption on the front page so I slipped that in. The usual "agree to disagree" applies. My main point, that we all support K no matter what the cost, is where I meant to focus.

Again, I agree with almost everything in your post, except Dawkins, Thornton and Hairston signed not too long after the Olympics, so they had obviously been recruited during K's involvement. Also, your example of politics, is analogous to one of the main arguments for the benefits of the Olympics, that the decisions you are making now (e.g. tax cuts, coaching the Olympics) may affect things more in the long-term than the short-term.
Sorry to nit-pick since I agree with most of what you are saying and will stop now.

[airowe]

Just a note from 99.9 The Fan's interview with Andre Dawkins from this evening here (http://www.wralsportsfan.com/duke/audio/5591511/?id_related=5590955)

He was asked if Coach K's involvement with the Olympic Team and being able to talk to Lebron James and Kobe Bryant had any impact on his decision to come to Duke.

Here's what he said: "That was pretty cool to know that he coached some guys like that. But, I thought very highly of him before that. Whether or not he did coach those guys I was still going to think highly of him. It was definitely a plus to be able to say to different guys on the AAU circuit my coach coached Kobe and Lebron and those guys. He actually came into the Peach Jam with a USA shirt on and I was talking to some guys and said, "Your coach doesn't have one of those does he?""

I'd say that K's Olympic experience has had a positive effect on at least one of Duke's most crucial recent recruits. While I don't subscribe to the belief that it hasn't negatively affected Duke at all, this is proof positive that it has some positive effects as well.

:D

[jimsumner]

"Although I do think it's been pretty well-established that the Olympics have been harmful to Duke basketball"

I guess I missed that. Some people feel that way. Some do not. I am strongly in the latter camp and most of the people whose opinions on college basketball I respect agree with me. Or I agree with them. Whatever.

[ArnieMc]

I do think that the harm has been well-established, but I also see that many others do not. As such I was stating my view on that controversial subject (just as 4decadedukie did) "for the record" as it were and moving on.

As for 2010, recruiting is generally a result of what happens in the 2 years or so before a class comes in (when the staff is attending camps, making connections, getting LOI's, etc). As such, if it is a referendum on anything it speaks to our efforts in 2008 and especially 2009. Since those were the years when K was NOT coaching the Olympics, success speaks only to how well we do without that (potential) distraction.Uh, last time I looked, the Beijing Olympics WERE in 2008 and that was definitely one year when K WAS coaching the Olympics. If you have a hard time remembering, Olympic years are evenly divisible by 4. Your logic is not looking too good.

As far as "the harm has been well-established," I don't think so. In fact, I think that statement is ludicrous.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

Uh, last time I looked, the Beijing Olympics WERE in 2008 and that was definitely one year when K WAS coaching the Olympics. If you have a hard time remembering, Olympic years are evenly divisible by 4. Your logic is not looking too good.

As far as "the harm has been well-established," I don't think so. In fact, I think that statement is ludicrous.

The Olympics ended in the summer of 2008, giving K and the staff half of '08, all of '09 and half of '10, but thanks for the info. That's why I'm suggesting that 2010 is the first year we'd see post-Olympic recruiting success "2 years or so" after they returned to being full-time.

Dawkins, of course, grew up a Duke fan and didn't need a gold medal to decide that Duke was the place for him. Hence the statement "But, I thought very highly of him before that. Whether or not he did coach those guys I was still going to think highly of him." If it convinces other guys to sign up I'll be happy to see the quotes.

Again, if other folks think the last four years have been nothing but a coincidence that's fine. I'm happy to agree to disagree and I think everyone has pretty well spelled out their reasons for feeling the way that they do. I hope we have consistent classes on par with the Killer B's, JWill/Boozer/Dun, and the Selected Six and once we do I'll be very happy to say that we've returned to the recruiting we had before the Olympics began. Until we see how those classes play out I'm not sure anyone is going to prove much of anything one way or the other. Let's agree to disagree and move on to celebrating the unique and wonderful news that Andre Dawkins has given us.

[SoCalDukeFan]

Apparently the official announcement is coming today.

This is good for US Basketball. I am less unhappy about it than I was a few weeks ago. I am very glad that Coach K says he will coach Duke until he retires from coaching so maybe the continued involvement with the Olympics will keep him interested and around for many years.

I do think that Duke deserves a full time coach and it is unfortunate that we will not have one. I also think that, if possible, K will take his staff with him again since if he does not it will be like admitting it was a mistake in 2008. Having his staff also makes everything more efficient for him.

There may be recruiting benefits but I doubt if K is taking this on as a way to help Duke in recruiting. There may be things he learns from the other coaches that he can use at Duke. He will also be making a tremendous effort to prove he can do both. I hope he does not get burned out.

Wish it were someone else.

SoCal

[watzone]

I was multi tasking last evening running between the NC Pro Am and a closet in the pits of McDougald gym where I was taking part in the media call in with K.

Here is audio from the media call in conference, part I. I hope to add part II to the same post shortly.

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2502

[airowe]

News and Observer article negating the impact of K's involvement wiith the Olympic team to Duke's recent inability to get to the Final Four.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/dont-blame-olympics-for-dukes-slide

I can't agree with the logic here of arguing that K's time away from the program isn't at all correlated to the misses in recruiting while the reason for Duke's missing Final Fours in the last 5 years is UNC's recruiting strategy.

I think I've made my opinion known in previous posts in this thread that I think the Olympic experience has both helped and hurt the program in different ways. I just don't get the logic put forth in the linked article.

[SupaDave]

News and Observer article negating the impact of K's involvement wiith the Olympic team to Duke's recent inability to get to the Final Four.

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/dont-blame-olympics-for-dukes-slide

I can't agree with the logic here of arguing that K's time away from the program isn't at all correlated to the misses in recruiting while the reason for Duke's missing Final Fours in the last 5 years is UNC's recruiting strategy.

I think I've made my opinion known in previous posts in this thread that I think the Olympic experience has both helped and hurt the program in different ways. I just don't get the logic put forth in the linked article.

Ugggghhh... This is the worst article and it seems to be trying to stir the UNC-Duke pot more than even talk about K, the USA team, OR coaching. Basically just seems like an article to boost Williams up without putting his name in the title - cause he sure is mentioned a lot.

Not just that but the recruiting examples are WEAK which I don't even feel like elaborating on b/c that stuff has been beat to death around here.

[airowe]

Ugggghhh... This is the worst article and it seems to be trying to stir the UNC-Duke pot more than even talk about K, the USA team, OR coaching. Basically just seems like an article to boost Williams up without putting his name in the title - cause he sure is mentioned a lot.

Not just that but the recruiting examples are WEAK which I don't even feel like elaborating on b/c that stuff has been beat to death around here.

Couldn't agree more. Tysiac definitely took the easy angle on this to drum up controversy from both sides of the Duke-PUNC contingents.

Didn't mean to beat a dead horse but thought this article to be incredibly shortsighted and full of faulty logic...

[SupaDave]

Kobe and Lebron are the gifts that keep on giving. It wont be long before we start seeing them wear Duke shirts I believe (really just a wild desire but hey - we all can dream)...


Bryant also said he was more likely to agree to play for Team USA at the World Championships in 2010 and the 2012 London Olympics now that Duke coach Mike Krzyzewski has committed to lead the team.

Bryant and Krzyzewski won the gold medal at the Beijing Olympics last year.

"I'm very excited to see that he signed on," Bryant said. "It influences all the guys just because we've been through that experience before and it becomes like a family."

"It definitely influences me."

[shoutingncu]

I haven't fact checked this, so please forgive if it's not true, but in a pretty reliable Tar Heel blog that also linked the Featherston article about Dean Smith, it said that after Carolina went to that 1977 Finals game (with a senior heavy team), they did not win a tournament game again until 1981.

Just food for thought. Personally, I think the other correlations brought up on this board (recruiting classes underwhelming, the one-and-done rule) are just as big of factors, but it was interesting to read that Duke is certainly not the first power school to "struggle" after it's coach goes to the Olympics.

[SupaDave]

I haven't fact checked this, so please forgive if it's not true, but in a pretty reliable Tar Heel blog that also linked the Featherston article about Dean Smith, it said that after Carolina went to that 1977 Finals game (with a senior heavy team), they did not win a tournament game again until 1981.

Just food for thought. Personally, I think the other correlations brought up on this board (recruiting classes underwhelming, the one-and-done rule) are just as big of factors, but it was interesting to read that Duke is certainly not the first power school to "struggle" after it's coach goes to the Olympics.

Some real quick facts...

Well they were ACC champs in 1977,1979 and 1981. And it certainly wasn't due to a lack of recruiting. Dean had as many as 6 All-Americans by 1980. Not to mention that 1982 championship had a guy by the name of Jordan on the squad... (guess it takes a little luck too!)

In 1978 - the tourney fielded 32 teams, in 1979 it was 40 teams, and in 1980 it was 48 teams. Not sure about how the conference champion rule being in effect altered things at this time but they had just removed it prior.

It would also probably make sense to see who UNC played in those first round games b/c they were up against the likes of Magic Johson and Michigan State, Larry Bird, Zeke Thomas, Bob Knight and an undefeated Indiana squad, and a stacked Kentucky squad...

So what would you like to place Dean's nemesis on from 1983 - 1988?

http://www.tarheeltimes.com/rosterbasketball-1980.aspx