Kentucky thread (recruiting/scholarship crunch/Cal and ethics)

[roywhite]

It will be interesting to see how Coach Calipari finesses that pesky scholarship limit. And whether we hear much about his "promises" to Eric Bledsoe about being a starter.

[tysi1521]

You can thank Worldwide Wes for this.....makes me wonder WHAT WAS BLEDSOE THINKING?

[KenTankerous]

As a Kentucky fan, I have to say I am not exactly thrilled with all of this hype around the incoming recruits. Sure, it's a bumper crop but five severed fingers is not a hand. All this talk of national championship contention before these guys have even had a team meeting, much less played a game together, seems ludicrous and completely over the top. Big Blue Nation is setting itself up for a huge let down AGAIN because we cannot reasonably manage our expectations.

And even though the issue is being completely swept under the rug here in the bluegrass, the scholarship limit and how Cal handles that, I think, speaks volumes about his ethic, or lack thereof.

Strange as it may sound coming from a UofK fan, all these recruits and the wins they might bring are not worth the damage I foresee if Cal is given free rein to play fast and loose with the rules.

I want my Cats to win, be sure, but I want to be able to gloat on DBR about the wins and if they are tainted, that takes the wind right out of my sails.

[SushiChef]

As a Kentucky fan, I have to say I am not exactly thrilled with all of this hype around the incoming recruits. Sure, it's a bumper crop but five severed fingers is not a hand. All this talk of national championship contention before these guys have even had a team meeting, much less played a game together, seems ludicrous and completely over the top. Big Blue Nation is setting itself up for a huge let down AGAIN because we cannot reasonably manage our expectations.

And even though the issue is being completely swept under the rug here in the bluegrass, the scholarship limit and how Cal handles that, I think, speaks volumes about his ethic, or lack thereof.

Strange as it may sound coming from a UofK fan, all these recruits and the wins they might bring are not worth the damage I foresee if Cal is given free rein to play fast and loose with the rules.

I want my Cats to win, be sure, but I want to be able to gloat on DBR about the wins and if they are tainted, that takes the wind right out of my sails.



Are you sure you aren't a Duke fan?

[grossbus]

going to be VERY interesting to watch the scholly dance and see how cal runs off enough to make the limit.

[BlueintheFace]

Those poor kids on UK... I can't believe I am saying this, but I really feel bad for the ones that get run out of town.

[BlueinBlo]

Coach Cal is an absolute disgrace to College Basketball. When Meeks comes back 17 kids will be on scholarship. So now kids thinking they will be playing are left out to dry so close to the beginning of the season. Having one scholarship over is fine, four makes this process look like a joke.

[JasonEvans]

As a Kentucky fan, I have to say I am not exactly thrilled with all of this hype around the incoming recruits. Sure, it's a bumper crop but five severed fingers is not a hand. All this talk of national championship contention before these guys have even had a team meeting, much less played a game together, seems ludicrous and completely over the top. Big Blue Nation is setting itself up for a huge let down AGAIN because we cannot reasonably manage our expectations.

And even though the issue is being completely swept under the rug here in the bluegrass, the scholarship limit and how Cal handles that, I think, speaks volumes about his ethic, or lack thereof.

Strange as it may sound coming from a UofK fan, all these recruits and the wins they might bring are not worth the damage I foresee if Cal is given free rein to play fast and loose with the rules.

I want my Cats to win, be sure, but I want to be able to gloat on DBR about the wins and if they are tainted, that takes the wind right out of my sails.

Ken is one of my favorite posters. An honest and forthright Kentucky fan who is not afraid to call his program out if they don't act ethically. Mad props to you sir for not just wearing the win-at-all-costs blinders.

As for Cal and the scholarship limit-- lets see how he handles it and how the kids who do not have scholarships react before we judge things. I hope a stink is made by some kids because I would like to see more attention paid to this issue by the NCAA and the media.

I think the "option" of a school to renew a scholarship is appallingly bad NCAA legislation. If a kid maintains good grades and is not formally disciplined by the team, it is reprehensible to pull a scholarship merely for not being a good enough player. If the kid was not good enough, you should not have recruited him or her.

At a bare minimum, there should be a cut-off date in April or so after which schools cannot pull scholarships. That would at least give kids time to find a new school if they get their scholly yanked. It is mid-May right now. A kid who got his scholarship yanked at Kentucky would have a hard time locating a new school at this point.

--Jason "odds that the NCAA actually deals with an issue that is bad for the kids... almost zero" Evans

[chrisheery]

for UK may prove to a serious hinderance to their future. With the way the NCAA can remove scholarships now for poor academic performance, having 4 guys that seems to have very questionable academics in the same class may become an issue. Similarly, Calapari will have to start recruiting some guys that intend to graduate or the problem will get even worse.

Man, that kid would have looked good in Duke blue. Oh well.

[SupaDave]

As a Kentucky fan, I have to say I am not exactly thrilled with all of this hype around the incoming recruits. Sure, it's a bumper crop but five severed fingers is not a hand. All this talk of national championship contention before these guys have even had a team meeting, much less played a game together, seems ludicrous and completely over the top. Big Blue Nation is setting itself up for a huge let down AGAIN because we cannot reasonably manage our expectations.

And even though the issue is being completely swept under the rug here in the bluegrass, the scholarship limit and how Cal handles that, I think, speaks volumes about his ethic, or lack thereof.

Strange as it may sound coming from a UofK fan, all these recruits and the wins they might bring are not worth the damage I foresee if Cal is given free rein to play fast and loose with the rules.

I want my Cats to win, be sure, but I want to be able to gloat on DBR about the wins and if they are tainted, that takes the wind right out of my sails.

Excellent post but now a few things are certain and it's almost enough to close this thread a begin a new one called - "The new UK" b/c now they are MUST see TV and here's what you got...

-The Louisville-UK game just got as much hype as Duke-UNC
-The NCAA will be watching like a hawk
-A whole lot of adjustment from players, fans, and coaches alike
-What does Meeks do now?
-What if they play like Tubby's last few teams or worse - Gillespie's?
-and who knows what other sub-plots...

[BlueintheFace]

I'm normally NEVER upset about recruiting misses, but how the hell does Cal get BOTH Bledsoe and Wall. I'm not upset about losing one or the other. I'm actually not upset about losing both. I am, however, pretty upset that one Coach beat out K for... not one, but TWO top tier recruits... at the same position.

I certainly am not going to say that Coach K has lost his touch as some tend to do when overreacting to a recruiting miss. I will, however, say this...

1) K made it clear that we had no true PG
2) K made it clear that he was really going to try to remedy this
3) K recruited, not one, but two PG's
4) Both of those PG's joined a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament last year, doesn't have enough scholarships for all of the players already on the team, and has a new coach.... while Duke is sitting here with ZERO PG's, guaranteed playing time, and a lot of pieces in place.

I mean come on, that stinks.

K must be getting really really tired of losing these recruits that come down to one or two top tier schools late. I hope he wins the next battle, because that win column is looking pretty static of late. You can do it K! Do what you do best... reevaluate, make adjustments, approach the problem in a new way. Go Get 'em.

[JasonEvans]

I know of very little evidence that Duke ever got all that involved with Beldsoe and I don't think K ever offered a scholarship. The grades and scores just never go to the point where Duke was a viable option for him, I think.

-Jason

[Kfanarmy]

With the way the NCAA can remove scholarships now for poor academic performance, having 4 guys that seems to have very questionable academics in the same class may become an issue. Similarly, Calapari will have to start recruiting some guys that intend to graduate or the problem will get even worse.


I don't think Calipari worries about grades much. His kids have seemed to get high enough grades to play no matter what their intellectual capabilities have been. Seems to always be a class for an athletically minded student to pass....at most universities

[JasonEvans]

Lets move the discussion of all things Kentucky to this thread instead of continuing to populate the John Wall thread.

Thanks...

--Jason "mod much?" Evans

[BlueintheFace]

I know of very little evidence that Duke ever got all that involved with Beldsoe and I don't think K ever offered a scholarship. The grades and scores just never go to the point where Duke was a viable option for him, I think.

-Jason

Duke had assistants speak with him/ watch him play on a number of occasions. Nate James ( I believe it was him) was quoted as telling Bledsoe to be more assertive offensively.

We do not know about the scores. Do you know about the scores?

[Exiled_Devil]

Excellent post but now a few things are certain and it's almost enough to close this thread a begin a new one called - "The new UK" b/c now they are MUST see TV and here's what you got...

-The Louisville-UK game just got as much hype as Duke-UNC


Some people argue that it is already better than Duke-UNC. They are full of it, and one thing will keep it from being true - not being a conference rival, and not having the game being meaningful in the final week of the year.

Sorry - just read that you wrote 'hype'. I'll buy that. It won't be as good, but it could get hyped up to the max. Of course, Pitino could go to Sacramento and that would throw a wrench in things.

[Matches]

Obviously I agree that it's reprehensible for schollys to be non-renewed for any reasons other than poor grades or misconduct detrimental to the team/ university - but I'm not really sure a rules change would help. You can see even from my language above that "misconduct" and "detrimental" are weasel words - an enterprising but unethical coach could still find some reason to boot the player, AND in that circumstance the coach would be likely to smear the player publicly to justify the decision.

Putting a deadline on non-renewal also causes a problem, because what if the player is caught with a kilo of coke on June 15th? The school ought to be able to take action in that case.

I don't know what the solution may be. What Cal is doing may technically be legal but violates just about every possible spirit of the rules - and he undoubtedly knows it and will do it anyway until someone makes him stop. It makes the college game look even more mercenary - unfortunate when it comes at the expense of kids.

[moonpie23]

how about how one-sided it is? why, should a school get to make a change in the athlete's scholarship and the student is punished (sit out a year) if THEY want to make a change..

what if you just hate the school, hate the coach's guts and want to play somewhere else?

the school can drop them, why can't they drop the school?

[jma4life]

Make no mistake, at the very least, this will be used in negative recruiting against UK. Maybe it won't stop the John Wall's from going, but if I'm a midlevel recruit, I'm thinking twice about playing for Cal.


I wonder why we haven't heard of this at all from the mainstream media, other than an article or two, here or there. Maybe people just don't care that much about UK, maybe people just assume Cal is dirty, maybe people don't find this nearly as reprehensible as I do, but I have to assume that if Coach K pulled this, it'd be a media firestorm. Same for Roy Williams too.

[grossbus]

"if I'm a midlevel recruit, I'm thinking twice about playing for Cal. "

if you're a midlevel recruit, cal is not interested in you. remember his words at his UK presser, "if you can't play, i can't hide you."

if a kid has his scholarship revoked for reasons other than academics or conduct, can he transfer without the year "penalty?"

[SupaDave]

"if I'm a midlevel recruit, I'm thinking twice about playing for Cal. "

if you're a midlevel recruit, cal is not interested in you. remember his words at his UK presser, "if you can't play, i can't hide you."

if a kid has his scholarship revoked for reasons other than academics or conduct, can he transfer without the year "penalty?"

lmao!!! That was genius. However, Cal has had his share of role players. Robert Dozier anyone?

[whereinthehellami]

I will be pulling up a chair to watch the great chemistry experiment that is KY basketball next year. It seems that CAL has made some promises and deals to a bunch of mercurial 18-21 year olds. That sounds like the type of chemistry experiment that ends up with the sprinkler system going off!

[JasonEvans]

Make no mistake, at the very least, this will be used in negative recruiting against UK. Maybe it won't stop the John Wall's from going, but if I'm a midlevel recruit, I'm thinking twice about playing for Cal.

I wonder why we haven't heard of this at all from the mainstream media, other than an article or two, here or there. Maybe people just don't care that much about UK, maybe people just assume Cal is dirty, maybe people don't find this nearly as reprehensible as I do, but I have to assume that if Coach K pulled this, it'd be a media firestorm. Same for Roy Williams too.

I think we have not heard more about it because the other shoe has not fallen yet. We do not yet know which kids will have their scholarships revoked so it is kinda hard to really drive the story home. All it will take is one kid crying while saying--

"Kentucky was my dream school. I had dreamed of playing for them my whole life. Even though I only played a few minutes a game, I loved every minute on campus and I think I helped the team the past couple years... And now Coach Cal has turned my dream into a nightmare."

--and that will ignite the media firestorm.

Of course, Cal may find kids who are willing to drop off the team with no hard feelings, though that may be tough even for a master salesman like him.

--Jason "please, please, please let this reprehensible behavior blow up in his face!" Evans

[Bluedog]

Bledsoe has qualified academically for Kentucky:

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-sports/2009/05/parker_point_guard_eric_bledso.html


Kentucky basketball signee Eric Bledsoe has made the grades he needs in his final high school courses to be eligible to play as a college freshman next season, Parker High School coach Maurice Ford said this morning. [...] Bledsoe [...] scored a 17 on his ACT test earlier.

[roywhite]

Of course, Cal may find kids who are willing to drop off the team with no hard feelings, though that may be tough even for a master salesman like him.

--Jason "please, please, please let this reprehensible behavior blow up in his face!" Evans


Not to be too cynical, but maybe some kids who decide to "move on" as a result of the scholarship crunch will find an Emery Air Freight envelope or two come to their door.

[diveonthefloor]

I have lived in Memphis for fourteen years and watched Calipari's entire reign in Memphis.

To say he is ethically challenged is like saying that Charles Manson may have hurt a few people.

I have friends with inside info on Cal's dealings with Elliot before Elliot committed to Duke. Cal was a complete slimeball on that one also.

I have no particular inside info, but it would not surprise me in the least to see the NCAA announce something about Univ of Memphis in the not to distant future.

If Bledsoe and Wall's recruitment was squeaky clean, then kudos to Cal for this accomplishment. What are the chances these recruitments were clean? haha i can't stop laughing at the thought.

[jma4life]

Agree that Cal doesn't get "midlevel" recruits, but I guess what I mean is, the non Derick Roses of the team. The guy's who aren't going to be lottery picks after their first year. I don't care how good you are at recruiting, you're not going to have 12 guys like that.

Not to say that I have a problem with recruiting over players. It's done at Duke and all schools, but I just think that I'd be a little more worried if I'm a star, rather than a superstar, going to UK than to a school like Duke. Worst case at a school like Duke, you don't get all the PT you want. Worst case at a school with Cal, is now shown to be getting booted from the program.

Did Cal do this at Memphis? Not that I know of. Is it more understandable that he's doing this while taking a new job at a new school? Debatably, though I don't think so. Nonetheless, when schools are recruiting certain players, they will make sure recruits no what Cal is doing, and that they will not do the same thing. Whether recruits see it from Cal's perspective or the apparent perspective of this board is hard to tell. Cal is certainly a tremendous salesmen. But I can tell you that if I'm a recruit and I see what Cal is about to do to these kids, I can't help but be a little worried, or at the very least, bothered by what Cal has done.

Nonetheless, I doubt the impact, whatever it may be, lasts long. I'd sure love for Jason Evans' prediction to come true though. I can promise you that showing that to recruits would not help Cal out too much, at least for a couple of years.

[ncexnyc]

Maybe we should be serving some cheese to go with all the whine that is taking place here.

Get real folks, we lost out on two exceptional PG's that would have made us a better team, but these things do happen.

Let's stop with all the mudslinging that is going on here. It's below Duke University and this site.

I'm sure if there is anything to be found some eager beaver writer would have dug it up by now.

Let's be gracious losers and embrace the kids we do have. We'll have a solid team and who knows some of the kids may exceed our expectations and the season could turn into something magical.

[roywhite]

Maybe we should be serving some cheese to go with all the whine that is taking place here.

Get real folks, we lost out on two exceptional PG's that would have made us a better team, but these things do happen.

Let's stop with all the mudslinging that is going on here. It's below Duke University and this site.

I'm sure if there is anything to be found some eager beaver writer would have dug it up by now.

Let's be gracious losers and embrace the kids we do have. We'll have a solid team and who knows some of the kids may exceed our expectations and the season could turn into something magical.

Well, you make a point.

However, I do think it's reasonable to question the over-recruitment in terms of scholarship numbers that Kentucky now has, and how it is they'll cut their roster to the legal amount (really, how else would you put it?)

It has to do with the ethics and rules of the sport we follow and care about.

[grossbus]

"That sounds like the type of chemistry experiment that ends up with the sprinkler system going off!"

ok, this one made me grin.

[Kfanarmy]

Maybe we should be serving some cheese to go with all the whine that is taking place here.

Get real folks, we lost out on two exceptional PG's that would have made us a better team, but these things do happen.

Let's stop with all the mudslinging that is going on here. It's below Duke University and this site.

I'm sure if there is anything to be found some eager beaver writer would have dug it up by now.

Let's be gracious losers and embrace the kids we do have. We'll have a solid team and who knows some of the kids may exceed our expectations and the season could turn into something magical.

Trying to appear so far above it all that we can't see real issues involved where BB players are going to get hurt in the long run doesn't seem helpful at all. In an effort to appear better than everyone else fans can become part of the problem by looking away. Were it not for other people "whining," often times those who are helpless get run over by the system. Kicking scholarship players off a team this late in the cycle seems an injustice and ignoring it would be condoning it, in my view...notwithstanding where this particular player went. The recruiting practice apparent here is disgusting and does a disservice to those kids who are the most important in my mind...those who will actually stay in school long enough to get an education. what is the cost to their potential to graduate in 4 years? What is the cost to their potential to graduate at all. Should fans sit quiet and let this kind of stuff happen so as not to appear to be "whining" about losing a recruit? I neither supported nor detracted from the coaches' recruiting of Wall...frankly, the coaches have vastly more knowledge than I. On the other hand, they do not have more knowledge of what right and wrong look like than the average fan. This over recruiting is certainly fair game to comment on, and given the factual basis is not mudslinging, but rather pointing out the mud.

Frankly those of us who have contacts should be talking to the NCAA and political representatives about this practice, especially in government funded schools.

[Greg_Newton]

It really is somewhat of a confusing travesty that both Bledsoe and Wall went UK... if all was fair in the world, one would have ended up at both UK and Duke, and everybody would have been happy and better off. But hey, at least the ol' Duke-UK rivalry is officially back in business!

Sure has been a rough 24 hours for the faithful, considering G officially signed with Tellum last night. Makes you wonder if he actually was considering coming back if we signed Wall... sighhhh.... I love the guys we have for next year, but boy, what a team that would have been...

[jma4life]

I don't see what's so wrong about calling out Cal here.

I don't endorse accusing Cal of cheating. There is apparently no evidence of that and however slimy the guy appears, without evidence it's unjustified.

But what is wrong with effectively sticking up for some guys who are basically about to get screwed? Is that really, beneath us as fans? Are we as fans making a bigger deal out of this than we should be? Maybe. Would we find ways to excuse it if it went down at Duke? Some of us surely would. But nonetheless, I can't help but be disgusted with what seems imminent to go down at UK and I don't think that it makes Duke fans look immature to call Cal out in this situation. I definitely think some other things we've called out, like the Roy Williams situation with the suits, pale in comparison to this situation, regardless of what the rule books or NCAA guidelines say.

As for Wall, I hold no ill-will at all to the guy. He gave Duke a legitimate chance despite the fact that Duke basically overlooked him (despite being in their backyard) until late in his senior year or at the very least, until after missing on Boynton. I certainly wish him well. He seems like a good guy and is a tremendous talent.

With regards to Jason's point on the NCAA, it's a sad world that this is considered less of a violation (in fact, zero violation) than some of the stuff other guys have been penalized for. (Wasn't it Majerus who got into trouble for getting burgers with someone?)

[whereinthehellami]

Maybe we should be serving some cheese to go with all the whine that is taking place here.

Get real folks, we lost out on two exceptional PG's that would have made us a better team, but these things do happen.

Let's stop with all the mudslinging that is going on here. It's below Duke University and this site.

I'm sure if there is anything to be found some eager beaver writer would have dug it up by now.

Let's be gracious losers and embrace the kids we do have. We'll have a solid team and who knows some of the kids may exceed our expectations and the season could turn into something magical.

Your post reminded me of the hall monitors from elementary school. Those guys could really suck the life out of a place.

[MIKESJ73]

So Porter has already been run off. All indications are that Josh Harellson and Donald Williams will "get cut" and A.J. Stewart will have to transfer. If Meeks decides to return, someone else "gets cut". Nothing like a little motivation to keep your (job???). Certainly this is business for Cal and guys like John Wall, but what about the student athlete that has made a commitment to the University. I'm sure Bledsoe will play next season, but if Meeks returns, his time will dramatically decrease (maybe Cal will keep his promise to start him, in the first game at least).

[mkirsh]

Agree that this is a horrible situation (and I wasn't a fan of a similar event that occurred at Harvard), but unfortunately I don't think it will hurt Cal in recruiting. If other schools/coaches try to use this against him he can always say "I didn't recruit over my own players, I had to rebuild a program and had to make room for my recruits. You, star player X, are my guy and I promise I would never pull your scholarship." I think he gets a pass because he's booting Gillespie's players, and as long as he can get minutes for Bledsoe and Wall together keeps his recruiting credibility. He already seems to have the reputation as a "players coach" with the clause in Xavier Henry's LOI that let him out of the commitment if Cal left Memphis. I think Cal will be a recruiting force unless he gets caught doing something illegal. Sucks, but afraid it's true.

What will be interesting to see is whether he can actually coach against more consistent competition. SEC isn't great, but it's better than anything he's seen before: A-10 in his UMass days was better than it is today but not a high major, and ConfUSA has been week since the Big East raid. Who do you root for when Florida plays UK? Blech.

[JasonEvans]

Who do you root for when Florida plays UK? Blech.

This is easy...

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9059/meteor20strikeuz7.jpg

--Jason

[blueprofessor]

This is easy...

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/9059/meteor20strikeuz7.jpg

--Jason

Jason, none of this doomsday stuff until Duke wins the lacrosse title in 6 days! Okay?:D
Was the ground zero Gainesville or Lexington? Remember gators can swim,wildcats cannot(for long).
Can you imagine the recruiting war between Billy D and Calmari ? I think it is gonna get real ugly. Maybe the mob gets called in to assign territorial rights.
Best--Blue Prof:)

[DDB4208]

As a Kentucky fan, I have to say I am not exactly thrilled with all of this hype around the incoming recruits. Sure, it's a bumper crop but five severed fingers is not a hand. All this talk of national championship contention before these guys have even had a team meeting, much less played a game together, seems ludicrous and completely over the top. Big Blue Nation is setting itself up for a huge let down AGAIN because we cannot reasonably manage our expectations.

And even though the issue is being completely swept under the rug here in the bluegrass, the scholarship limit and how Cal handles that, I think, speaks volumes about his ethic, or lack thereof.

Strange as it may sound coming from a UofK fan, all these recruits and the wins they might bring are not worth the damage I foresee if Cal is given free rein to play fast and loose with the rules.

I want my Cats to win, be sure, but I want to be able to gloat on DBR about the wins and if they are tainted, that takes the wind right out of my sails.

Just for clarification. Are you a Devil before you are a Wildcat?

[bdeviled11]

This is my first post here, but I''ve been a long time lurker. I read in the main John Wall thread, where someone was taking a shot at "Worldwide Wes". I remembered the name but I had no idea what this guy looked like. I did a little searching and found this

It is vintage Wesley, using one relationship to build another.

During the camp, Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski waved Wesley over for a conversation. Wesley is an ally of USA Basketball, and Krzyzewski coaches the men’s team. Wesley has deep access to the program, thanks to his relationships with many of the team’s star players, and even stayed on the Queen Mary II with the team at the 2004 Olympics. He expects to be in China for the Beijing Games.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/sports/basketball/05wesley.html?pagewanted=all


I just found it interesting and wondered if this relationship might bear watching for the future?

[KenTankerous]

Just for clarification. Are you a Devil before you are a Wildcat?

Actually no. I am a Kentucky fan that fell in love with a Duke girl. For Xmas 2007 I took her to her first game at Cameron and kind of fell in love with the place. Here is a link to the thread I posted shortly after our trip:

A Cat Fan in Cameron (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5977)

I have come to respect the Duke program, especially Coach Krzyzewski and the ethic with which he runs an elite program that graduates his student athletes with meaningful degrees. I think DBR is probably the most intellectual sports board on the planet and find most of the posters here gracious and very well informed.

Yes, this has been very difficult to get my little wildcat head around. Yes, I still hate seeing The Shot but think we exorcised Laettner's ghost with the 17 point less than ten minute come back in 98. I watch as many Duke games as I do Kentucky and enjoy the ACC as much, if not more, than the SEC.

But as much as it sometimes pains me, I am a Wildcat Fan.

[LamJones]

I know of very little evidence that Duke ever got all that involved with Beldsoe and I don't think K ever offered a scholarship. The grades and scores just never go to the point where Duke was a viable option for him, I think.

-Jason


I doubt very much that test scores play much of a role in Duke's recruitment of basketball players. Court intelligence and upbringing, yes. Test scores no.

Is it now okay to say that Coach K and his staff have been out-recruited? I've said it before, but my post was erased for doing so. I'm curious if any former players have claimed that their success at the next level is due developmentally to what Collins and/or Wojo tought them in college. IMO, a big man should recruit and teach big men at Duke.

[roywhite]

I doubt very much that test scores play much of a role in Duke's recruitment of basketball players. Court intelligence and upbringing, yes. Test scores no.

Is it now okay to say that Coach K and his staff have been out-recruited? I've said it before, but my post was erased for doing so. I'm curious if any former players have claimed that their success at the next level is due developmentally to what Collins and/or Wojo tought them in college. IMO, a big man should recruit and teach big men at Duke.

Welcome to the board. Quite a first post, or maybe second, based on what you indicate about a previous post.

You managed to touch 3 hot spots:

1. Duke doesn't care about test scores
2. Coach K is getting out-recruited
3. Collins and Wojo shouldn't coach big men.

Since you may not be posting in good faith, or may not be around very long, I'll just answer the first point. Duke certainly cares about test scores, and literally until the last day or so, according to reports, Eric Bledsoe was not eligible for first year D-1 scholarship play because his transcript/test scores did not meet NCAA minimums.

Duke generally identifies prospects in their sophomore year, or sometimes in their junior year, and they encourage the prospect to take their SAT/ACT early to satisfy minimum requirements and get a better idea of their academic level. Are scholarships offered to prospects with marginal academic credentials? Yes. My experience watching Duke's recruiting process over the years is that one prospect per class (sometimes not any, but seldom more than one) has a marginal academic profile, but that Coach K (and admissions people) think they can do the academic work at Duke.

So, yes, Duke does care about test scores.

[dukelifer]

I'm normally NEVER upset about recruiting misses, but how the hell does Cal get BOTH Bledsoe and Wall. I'm not upset about losing one or the other. I'm actually not upset about losing both. I am, however, pretty upset that one Coach beat out K for... not one, but TWO top tier recruits... at the same position.

I certainly am not going to say that Coach K has lost his touch as some tend to do when overreacting to a recruiting miss. I will, however, say this...

1) K made it clear that we had no true PG
2) K made it clear that he was really going to try to remedy this
3) K recruited, not one, but two PG's
4) Both of those PG's joined a team that didn't make the NCAA tournament last year, doesn't have enough scholarships for all of the players already on the team, and has a new coach.... while Duke is sitting here with ZERO PG's, guaranteed playing time, and a lot of pieces in place.

I mean come on, that stinks.

K must be getting really really tired of losing these recruits that come down to one or two top tier schools late. I hope he wins the next battle, because that win column is looking pretty static of late. You can do it K! Do what you do best... reevaluate, make adjustments, approach the problem in a new way. Go Get 'em.

Does K get credit for landing Kelly or Plumlee who were recruited hard by other teams? K has won plenty of battles - but there are many places to play basketball. KY has been one of the best basketball programs of all time despite their recent woes. Cal sold these kids on a chance to bring KY back to being relevant again. That is compelling. Now Cal has never won the big one and I will bet he will not win it next year- but regardless- the focus of the basketball world will be on Lexington. This team will have enormous pressure on it and a lot of built-in dramas with kids fighting for playing time in an attempt to audition for the NBA. If Cal can make this team a team- well that will be remarkable. I think this team will fail to win it all as their inexperience as a team will kill them a critical moment in the NCAA tourney and then everyone leaves and Cal is left with a lot of explaining and rebuilding to do. College ball will be very interesting next year.

As for Duke, they will be just fine. I expect we will see huge growth in Smith and Williams, the new guys will surprise and Singler is going to break out. It will be a fun year- just wait.

[FireOgilvie]

I doubt very much that test scores play much of a role in Duke's recruitment of basketball players. Court intelligence and upbringing, yes. Test scores no.

Is it now okay to say that Coach K and his staff have been out-recruited? I've said it before, but my post was erased for doing so. I'm curious if any former players have claimed that their success at the next level is due developmentally to what Collins and/or Wojo tought them in college. IMO, a big man should recruit and teach big men at Duke.

Don't worry about Duke. If you want to worry about something, worry about USC being on probation for paying player(s) and their contacts in cash. That's a real problem. Worry about UK taking away scholarships from upperclassmen while graduating maybe a few players in the upcoming years. Duke will be fine.

[JasonEvans]

This is my first post here, but I''ve been a long time lurker. I read in the main John Wall thread, where someone was taking a shot at "Worldwide Wes". I remembered the name but I had no idea what this guy looked like. I did a little searching and found this

It is vintage Wesley, using one relationship to build another.

During the camp, Duke Coach Mike Krzyzewski waved Wesley over for a conversation. Wesley is an ally of USA Basketball, and Krzyzewski coaches the men’s team. Wesley has deep access to the program, thanks to his relationships with many of the team’s star players, and even stayed on the Queen Mary II with the team at the 2004 Olympics. He expects to be in China for the Beijing Games.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/05/sports/basketball/05wesley.html?pagewanted=all


I just found it interesting and wondered if this relationship might bear watching for the future?

Your first post ever on the board is a question of how connected K is to Worldwide Wes?!?! Really???

Well, the truth is that every prominent coach in the country has a relationship and at least some friendship with Worldwide Wes. He is far too powerful a figure for anyone to ignore him. He is the guy who got Lebron James to switch agents. He is "best friends" with dozens of prominent NBA players. He is instrumental in directing kids to the shoe companies. A coach who does not make friends with Wes is a coach who is fighting an uphill battle against one of the half dozen or so most powerful people in all of basketball.

So, yes, he and K know each other and have a relationship. But, I don't think you will see Wes helping to steer recruits to Duke and Duke allowing him to have special access to the team in return.

--Jason "Wes is so secretive, he will probably shut down the DBR to stop this conversation" Evans

[JBDuke]

...IMO, a big man should recruit and teach big men at Duke.

Others have addressed your question about test scores, so I'll skip that. With regard to coaching big men, your opinion is apparently not well-founded. The question has been asked and answered on this board over and over again, and the answer is always the same - height is not required for coaching big men. The foremost coach of post play for the last few decades was Pete Newell, who stood all of 6'2".

As a moderator, I'll publicly caution you about posts criticizing Duke players, coaches, or the program in general. If you want to criticize, do so constructively and with some reasoned argument to back up your conclusions. Posting with destructively negative (i.e., bashing) comments will earn you infractions from the moderators that may impact your ability to post in the future. Posting criticism without proper foundation will earn you lots of responses that will refute your arguments.

I suggest you read the Posting Guidelines and the "Time to Clean Up" thread that are stuck at the top of the EK Board.

[dukemsu]

I doubt very much that test scores play much of a role in Duke's recruitment of basketball players. Court intelligence and upbringing, yes. Test scores no.

Is it now okay to say that Coach K and his staff have been out-recruited? I've said it before, but my post was erased for doing so. I'm curious if any former players have claimed that their success at the next level is due developmentally to what Collins and/or Wojo tought them in college. IMO, a big man should recruit and teach big men at Duke.

Unreal. The Wojo/Big Man Coach bit makes its way into a thread talking about Kentucky recruiting ethics.

Unless K hires Yao to coach the big men, this will never go away. As Yao is otherwise occupied, I guess we'll just have to get used to it.

dukemsu

[ncexnyc]

Ladies and gentlemen I sincerely apologize for raining on your Calapari bash session, however the fairy that was sprinkling the magical altruism powder missed my house last night.

I’m glad to see so many of you standing up for the poor downtrodden players on the UK squad. I also believe that your taking Calapari to task for his questionable ethics is great and while we’re on the topic of ethics maybe we should discuss the word integrity. I think we need this discussion as several of you seem to be sorely lacking in that department.

To myself and any casual reader from the outside, this thread reads like nothing more than sour grapes. The self righteous claim of altruism and standing up for these exploited and abused players at UK just doesn’t cut it. You may have had a leg to stand on with those claims if this thread had started prior to John Wall’s decision, but the fact that it appeared shortly after he announced his plan's makes those claims somewhat dubious to say the least. I’m curious, how many of you who are standing up for the soon to be ex-Wildcats were leading the charge against Ol’ Roy last year when he pushed for the change in the rules that limited the time players had to explore their possible draft standing with the NBA?

I’ve never met John Calapari and can only form an opinion about him from what I read and see in the media. Yes, there are questions about his character, but to date he’s managed to sidestep any major trouble. Do I like what’s taking place with the UK program right now? No, I don’t, however if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical. Will this comeback and bite Calapari in the rear? Most likely, as has already been mentioned if he continues to successfully recruit one and done players who aren’t in the least bit interested in completing their schoolwork, his scholarship numbers will eventually take a hit.

[Lulu]

I fully agree with the below in that this thread seems to reek of nothing more than sour grapes.

HOWEVER, this topic was not started today. A mod simply created this new thread today in attempt to keep the discussion of Duke recruiting (somehow left relegated to the John Wall thread) and UK ethics separate. The discussion of Calipari's ethics has been ongoing in that thread starting the day it was first rumored that Calipari might be headed to UK. The fact that a mod reorganized everything today just makes it appear more like sour grapes than it really was.

Still, there are some grapes around here that aren't fully ripened.


Ladies and gentlemen I sincerely apologize for raining on your Calapari bash session, however the fairy that was sprinkling the magical altruism powder missed my house last night.

I’m glad to see so many of you standing up for the poor downtrodden players on the UK squad. I also believe that your taking Calapari to task for his questionable ethics is great and while we’re on the topic of ethics maybe we should discuss the word integrity. I think we need this discussion as several of you seem to be sorely lacking in that department.

To myself and any casual reader from the outside, this thread reads like nothing more than sour grapes. The self righteous claim of altruism and standing up for these exploited and abused players at UK just doesn’t cut it. You may have had a leg to stand on with those claims if this thread had started prior to John Wall’s decision, but the fact that it appeared shortly after he announced his plan's makes those claims somewhat dubious to say the least. I’m curious, how many of you who are standing up for the soon to be ex-Wildcats were leading the charge against Ol’ Roy last year when he pushed for the change in the rules that limited the time players had to explore their possible draft standing with the NBA?

I’ve never met John Calapari and can only form an opinion about him from what I read and see in the media. Yes, there are questions about his character, but to date he’s managed to sidestep any major trouble. Do I like what’s taking place with the UK program right now? No, I don’t, however if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical. Will this comeback and bite Calapari in the rear? Most likely, as has already been mentioned if he continues to successfully recruit one and done players who aren’t in the least bit interested in completing their schoolwork, his scholarship numbers will eventually take a hit.

[whereinthehellami]

Ladies and gentlemen I sincerely apologize for raining on your Calapari bash session, however the fairy that was sprinkling the magical altruism powder missed my house last night.

I’m glad to see so many of you standing up for the poor downtrodden players on the UK squad. I also believe that your taking Calapari to task for his questionable ethics is great and while we’re on the topic of ethics maybe we should discuss the word integrity. I think we need this discussion as several of you seem to be sorely lacking in that department.

To myself and any casual reader from the outside, this thread reads like nothing more than sour grapes. The self righteous claim of altruism and standing up for these exploited and abused players at UK just doesn’t cut it. You may have had a leg to stand on with those claims if this thread had started prior to John Wall’s decision, but the fact that it appeared shortly after he announced his plan's makes those claims somewhat dubious to say the least. I’m curious, how many of you who are standing up for the soon to be ex-Wildcats were leading the charge against Ol’ Roy last year when he pushed for the change in the rules that limited the time players had to explore their possible draft standing with the NBA?

I’ve never met John Calapari and can only form an opinion about him from what I read and see in the media. Yes, there are questions about his character, but to date he’s managed to sidestep any major trouble. Do I like what’s taking place with the UK program right now? No, I don’t, however if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical. Will this comeback and bite Calapari in the rear? Most likely, as has already been mentioned if he continues to successfully recruit one and done players who aren’t in the least bit interested in completing their schoolwork, his scholarship numbers will eventually take a hit.

Sour grapes make wine and that's mighty fine with me. I visit multiple basketball boards and this thread and its sentiments are pretty much universal. Those other boards do not have a stake in Wall and/or Cal, are they making wine also?

[Saratoga2]

Ladies and gentlemen I sincerely apologize for raining on your Calapari bash session, however the fairy that was sprinkling the magical altruism powder missed my house last night.

I’m glad to see so many of you standing up for the poor downtrodden players on the UK squad. I also believe that your taking Calapari to task for his questionable ethics is great and while we’re on the topic of ethics maybe we should discuss the word integrity. I think we need this discussion as several of you seem to be sorely lacking in that department.

To myself and any casual reader from the outside, this thread reads like nothing more than sour grapes. The self righteous claim of altruism and standing up for these exploited and abused players at UK just doesn’t cut it. You may have had a leg to stand on with those claims if this thread had started prior to John Wall’s decision, but the fact that it appeared shortly after he announced his plan's makes those claims somewhat dubious to say the least. I’m curious, how many of you who are standing up for the soon to be ex-Wildcats were leading the charge against Ol’ Roy last year when he pushed for the change in the rules that limited the time players had to explore their possible draft standing with the NBA?

I’ve never met John Calapari and can only form an opinion about him from what I read and see in the media. Yes, there are questions about his character, but to date he’s managed to sidestep any major trouble. Do I like what’s taking place with the UK program right now? No, I don’t, however if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical. Will this comeback and bite Calapari in the rear? Most likely, as has already been mentioned if he continues to successfully recruit one and done players who aren’t in the least bit interested in completing their schoolwork, his scholarship numbers will eventually take a hit.

It is a fact that Calipari recruited and has scholarship commitments from as many as 17 players for next year when the scholarship limit is 13. He managed to do that, even though many other schools, not just Duke, were competing for these kids.

First of all, why is it the NCAA doesn't have a position on recruiting beyond the allowed number? Secondly, what kind of enticement could Calipari/Kentucky offer these kids to have them turn down other schools that offered a better chance of getting PT?

I don't know the answers to these questions and don't claim something illegal happened, but it seems more than a little unethical as a minimum, for a coach and school to recruit beyond their scholarship limit, and in this case way beyond.

I hope the NCAA will institute a rule following Kentucky's recruiting approach that will limit what coaches and schools can do going forward.

[SupaDave]

Maybe we should be serving some cheese to go with all the whine that is taking place here.

Get real folks, we lost out on two exceptional PG's that would have made us a better team, but these things do happen.

Let's stop with all the mudslinging that is going on here. It's below Duke University and this site.

I'm sure if there is anything to be found some eager beaver writer would have dug it up by now.

Let's be gracious losers and embrace the kids we do have. We'll have a solid team and who knows some of the kids may exceed our expectations and the season could turn into something magical.

Well all this would make sense if we were talking about our favorite sports team and not a bunch of high school kids. What Cal has done is essentially turned the University of Kentucky's basketball team into the STATE of Kentucky's PRO basketball team... Only in the pros do coachs just get to revamp whole rosters - until now...

[SupaDave]

Welcome to the board. Quite a first post, or maybe second, based on what you indicate about a previous post.

They don't make it hard do they?

[_Gary]

You know what's funny. Before reading this thread at all this morning, I thought about posting my own small two cents about Cal and what's happening at UK right now with the scholarship situation. Then I thought to myself, if I do that someone is going to say it's all sour grapes. Lo and behold, someone has already thrown that gauntlet down. And my response: Whatever.

I've had major questions about Cal for years now. The facts are the facts no matter when they are discussed (before or after a recruiting miss). As others above have said, it's highly unethical for Cal to be doing this, and while we have no evidence I think it's only human nature for us to question how he's able to convince these kids to come when they are already loaded at certain positions. It really does make one wonder if there isn't more going on behind the scenes. Call it sour grapes all you want. It's still highly suspicious no matter how you slice it.

I predict we will see some smoke, sooner rather than later. And where there's smoke...

[ArnieMc]

No, I don’t, however if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical.I vehemently disagree. There are a lot of things that are unethical that are not illegal or breaking rules. If you really believe this, I don't want to associate with you.

[MulletMan]

MulletMan wonders to self, "If Cal had come in in 1990 with UK on probation, would the jersies of Richie Farmer, Deron Feldhaus, John Pelphrey, and Sean Woods be hanging in the rafters of Rupp Arena?" Maybe Cal would have run those guys out of town on a rail and sent them home to Eastern Kentucky.

[Billy Dat]

Cal's documented indiscretions at UMass aside, let's assume he's following the rules until proven otherwise and consider the vein he has currently tapped...

Cal has embraced everything about the modern amateur basketball scene in the United States:
-He caters to one-and-done talents
-He courts AAU coaches and player "handlers"
-He says that while he feels the name on the front of the jersey is the most important, he recognizes that the name on the back of the jersey is what motivates today's player
-He runs an offense that showcases one-on-one playmaking and doesn't take years to master
-He sells the pro dream, not the "get an education" mantra
-He brings the cred of having coached in the NBA
-As said before, he is in Worldwide Wes' inner circle

The question is...is this the future or just the flavor of the month? Of his 9 years at Memphis, he's gone to the NCAAs 6 times and the NIT 3 times. In those 6 NCAA trips, he's made it past the Sweet 16 3 times. He's on an incredible hot streak...there's no doubt. But, there's no way on knowing whether his approach, as outlined above, is built on a foundation that can stand the test of time.

"And what rough beast, its hour come round at last....."
Is Cal the second coming...or merely another Tark the Shark?

[sfinleyo]

I'm just as let down as everyone else here about Wall signing with Kentucky. I was also hoping Henderson would come back for his senior year. But that's the way I look at DUKE... I assume everybody Coach K goes after is going to commit and that everybody that does commit will stay all 4 years. I had my dream lineup of Wall, Scheyer, Henderson, Singler, big man by committee all planned out. The fact that we're upset just shows how much Coach K and his staff and team make us feel a part of their program. I say that despite the fact that I'm never going to be attending Duke University and knowing that on the die hard fan scale I have a lot of catching up to do. I just disagree with the people saying it's sour grapes because I'm sure everyone on this board is gonna tune in or head to Cameron to watch every game they possibly can next season. We all want to win the National Championship every year... but whether we do go all the way or get knocked out early... or even if we don't make the tournament... I just want to see our guys play ball. I'm sad when the season ends, no matter how far we made it. I wish I could watch Duke play all year long. I love seeing the interactions between the players. I love seeing Coach K interact with the players. I love seeing them get fired up. I love our team... every year... whether we have a "contender" or not. I believe anyone with "sour grapes" feels the same way. So just remember we love our team. I just wanted to say that... cuz I'm gonna watch every game and love feeling like I'm a part of it... no matter who's on the team... yet i'm still upset when my dream lineup doesn't come together. Although I got my next dream lineup planned out with Knight, N. Smith, Barnes, Singler, and J. Smith... not to mention a very deep bench :D. GO DUKE!!!

ps sorry about the rant... considering it didn't really add to the thread. Who here though is gonna pass up watching any Duke game or love any team less because we're not exactly considered a "contender" (i consider us one every year by the way)? I for one will watch every Duke game I can for the rest of my life and hopefully longer. They have ESPN in the afterlife right?

[blueprofessor]

Article declaring and comparing top UK classes of all time and more:
http://www.kentucky.com/838/story/801282.html

They have got the fever and Coach Cal is all-a-twitter!:p
Best--Blueprofessor:)

[ncexnyc]

I'm really not surprised by some of the feedback my two posts on this thread have generated.

I'm also not surprised that no one responded to my question about where they stood when Ol' Roy pushed for the rules change limiting kids time to explore their options of going pro, a change backed by Coach K.

I guess when we talk about being altruistic and looking out for the best interest of players, it's only when it suits our needs.

It's alright if you don't send me a Christmas card or invite me to your Labor Day cookout, I can live with it. Just try to be honest about why your posting on this thread. The majority of you are upset about losing out on Wall, if it's any other kid we weren't interested in, no one would give a rats you know what.

[bulldog44]

I went with a friend to the Cracker Barrel in Morrisville NC this morning and was reading the paper while waiting for my food and our waiter saw me reading the paper and asked if I was a college basketball fan. I said yes and he said he was too and that Calipari was eating on the other side of the restaurant. I asked him who he pulled for and he said he was a Tarhole fan and asked who I liked ( apparently he didn't see the Duke hat I was wearing ), I of course told him I was a Duke fan. Anyway on to the other stuff, he told me Calipari ate a nice meal and left NO tip at all. NONE, not even one dollar. Just figured I would share that info.

[allenmurray]

while we’re on the topic of ethics maybe we should discuss the word integrity. I think we need this discussion as several of you seem to be sorely lacking in that department.



if the man isn’t breaking any current rules it would appear that what he is doing technically can’t be unethical.

Do you really not understand the difference between following the "letter of the law" and behaving in an ethical way?

[Rogue]

I don't know the rules, but maybe somebody does. If UK has 17 on scholarship and only 13 can ,, be on scholarship ?? how does it work ?
Can Cal have 4 Soph, Jr or Sr. Redshirt for Wall's ONE and DONE yr ? then bring them back ?
I don't know all the different type redshirts there are,, medical redhirt ? what do they call all the Freshmen football redshirts ?

[BD80]

... our waiter ... told me Calipari ate a nice meal and left NO tip at all. NONE, not even one dollar. Just figured I would share that info.

The player he was with probably thought Cal had left the money for him. :D

Congrats to Kentucky and Coach Cal. He is a truly amazing recruiter. He even got Wall to sign a LOI. Getting Bledsoe and Wall is truly astonishing. I'd bet Coach Cal could get laid at a convent.

There will be tons of pressure and tons of scrutiny. It will be interesting if Meeks comes back to see how the team comes together. There simply won't be enough points available to get the 2010 draft picks the ppg they will expect. Sure, Cal will let them run up huge scores, but even still, at least a couple of the 6 2010 draft prospects will be disappointed.

It will be interesting to see how Cal gets all the freshman playing come tourney time.

[ncexnyc]

Do you really not understand the difference between following the "letter of the law" and behaving in an ethical way?

S E M A N T I C S

It all comes down to that plain and simple.

[Newton_14]

So Sidney Lowe,
We apologize dude, that we failed to inform you about the new rule. You took over at NCSU and did your best to coach up the team you inherited from Sendek, and you went the old fashion way of letting the Sendek kids stay on and you recruited your kids 1 or 2 at a time based on the amount of available scholarships you had each year. Going in to Season 4 you will finally have a team of your recruits. We do applaud you though Sid, as most of us feel that is the ethical thing to do..

However Sid, we now know there was another option available to you. You could have immediately recruited as many new kids for year 1 as you possibly could get to sign with you and if you ended up 5 or 6 scholarships over the limit... no biggie, you could have just signed all the new guys and "let things things work themselves out" over that 1st summer!! No need to renew any of the scholarships of the Sendek kids umm, that, umm, you know, "would not be suited to the style of play you roll with".....We regret not passing the information about this new option to you sooner....

[roywhite]

S E M A N T I C S

It all comes down to that plain and simple.

If you think that's the difference between following the letter of the law and behaving in an ethical manner, I've got an educational conference I recommend you attend.

http://www.fuqua.duke.edu/centers/cole/

You'll love the main speaker and you might learn something.

[KenTankerous]

No this is not semantics. Calipari isn't doing anything to violate NCAA regs but that does not mean he is doing what is right. Just because you are not breaking the law doesn't mean you are doing the right thing. Come on, do we really have to go into depth on this?

Calipari has recruited the best class in recent memory. How he handles the complications from the scholarship limit will speak volumes about his ethic. To date, he has done nothing wrong. He may actually be able to finagle this situation to the benefit and satisfaction of all parties involved. I only say this because he has convinced Wall and Bledsoe to join Meeks and fourteen others to compete for playing time when they very well could have all gone to any one of the top ten elite programs and seen immediate playing time without this kind of competition.

If he does pull this off, and manages to mold these super egos into a team rather than separate playmakers auditioning for the scouts, then maybe he is the new breed of College coach.

But that is a long, long way from May 20th.

[majinemesis]

Someone posted this link deep, deep, deep in the John Wall thread(about a month ago). I don't like Cal that much either, but I guess when coaches take over new teams the makeover can get ugly.....legal...and unethical to most. If the story is right at least Cal is giving them time to change schools after the kick in the behind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/sports/ncaabasketball/28harvard.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=tommy%20amaker&st=cse


Whatever. This is my last look into the Kentucky/Wall threads.

[FireOgilvie]

Someone posted this link deep, deep, deep in the John Wall thread(about a month ago). I don't like Cal that much either, but I guess when coaches take over new teams the makeover can get ugly.....legal...and unethical to most. If the story is right at least Cal is giving them time to change schools after the kick in the behind.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/sports/ncaabasketball/28harvard.html?_r=1&scp=3&sq=tommy%20amaker&st=cse


Whatever. This is my last look into the Kentucky/Wall threads.

A ton of people had a problem with Amaker doing that. It was a really bad move, in my opinion. Especially not doing it early enough for them to transfer (although I don't know if you'd actually want to transfer out of Harvard just to sit on the bench at some other school). Amaker allowed them to play for the JV team. The Kentucky guys are actually on scholarship, which makes that situation even worse. They go from going to school for free to having to pay full tuition if they want to stay (probably out of state).

[Duke #33]

Anyway on to the other stuff, he told me Calipari ate a nice meal and left NO tip at all. NONE, not even one dollar. Just figured I would share that info.

He is going to make millions of dollars next year, and he can't even leave a tip?:eek:

[whereinthehellami]

I'm really not surprised by some of the feedback my two posts on this thread have generated.

I guess when we talk about being altruistic and looking out for the best interest of players, it's only when it suits our needs.

It's alright if you don't send me a Christmas card or invite me to your Labor Day cookout, I can live with it. Just try to be honest about why your posting on this thread. The majority of you are upset about losing out on Wall, if it's any other kid we weren't interested in, no one would give a rats you know what.

I don't really get where you are coming from. This is a Duke board, in the off-season. Of course people are going to talk about where a recruit Duke was high on committed. Why wouldn't we talk about this. As far as the sour grapes thing goes, i think that says more about you then the rest of us.

[sagegrouse]

A ton of people had a problem with Amaker doing that. It was a really bad move, in my opinion. Especially not doing it early enough for them to transfer (although I don't know if you'd actually want to transfer out of Harvard just to sit on the bench at some other school). Amaker allowed them to play for the JV team. The Kentucky guys are actually on scholarship, which makes that situation even worse. They go from going to school for free to having to pay full tuition if they want to stay (probably out of state).

The Amaker situation is in no ways comparable to Kentucky overstocking players on scholarship:

1. For one, no player's academic scholarship (wink-wink) to Harvard was affected by his decisions.

2. What Tommy did was to decide before the season started that players 14 THROUGH 19 would be assigned to the JV rather than be part of the varsity October 15 practices. These players could make the varsity via battlefield promotion. His mistake, if even that, was that this was a change from a previous announced position, which he decided was dumb (he was right). He didn't need to go through October practices with 19 players.

3. Holy cow! Players 14 through 19 on one of the worst teams in Division I?? Where would they go? They probably couldn't make the starting lineup at most Division III schools. And why is this even a story?!?!?

4. In contrast, the essence of the Calipari issue is that players dropped would, in fact, lose all financial aid. Although, to be fair, any player on scholarship at Kentucky can play major college basketball at a number of other schools.

5. The Amaker issue was a non-story fed by a NY Times sports staff that had previously reported on Harvard hoops (true confession: I am a NY Times subscriber) and never should have been printed. As might be expected at Harvard (and maybe even at Duke), certain parents of the affected players were not hesitant about calling the NY Times.

6. The prior story, having to do with changes in Harvard recruiting in hoops after Amaker arrived, charged that Harvard may have violated NCAA recruiting regulations. These charges were investigated and dropped by Harvard, the Ivy League and the NCAA. The reports also breathlessly claimed that Harvard was dropping its standards of admissions for basketball players. True, Harvard had maintained a standard for admission that was above the standards the Ivy League insisted on and was reverting to the Ivy League standard. The only real story in all of this was that Harvard, unsatisfied with its miserable record in basketball, had decided to try to win some games. I guess, Harvard having recruited Tommy Amaker, I thought that was obvious!

sagegrouse

[Kfanarmy]

I'm really not surprised by some of the feedback my two posts on this thread have generated.

I'm also not surprised that no one responded to my question about where they stood when Ol' Roy pushed for the rules change limiting kids time to explore their options of going pro, a change backed by Coach K.

I guess when we talk about being altruistic and looking out for the best interest of players, it's only when it suits our needs.

It's alright if you don't send me a Christmas card or invite me to your Labor Day cookout, I can live with it. Just try to be honest about why your posting on this thread. The majority of you are upset about losing out on Wall, if it's any other kid we weren't interested in, no one would give a rats you know what.

to answer: you shouldn't be surprised that when you challenge the motives of others they don't come back praising your eloquence.

2. I don't see going to the NBA as the number one objective of college basketball. Second I think a fair system gives the player a limited, but reasonable, amount of time to decide whether to stay at the school or go pro. The team needs a reasonable amount of time to replace the person leaving while the person needs a reasonable amount of to test the waters. Note I put the team first. We can argue about what is reasonable, but if you're argument is their should be no limit to the time kids take, I disagree.

3. I echo earlier concerns about statement that indicated you equate NCAA rules to ethics.

4. your contention that No one gives a rat ___ is wrong. I don't care about Wall. I do care about the ethics that causes way too many young people to rely on sports to get ahead instead of education. The practice described here will cost some folks their educational opportunities who will never go pro in BBall

[El_Diablo]

For those who aren't all that familiar with Worldwide Wes and his connections, this offers a glimpse:

http://men.style.com/gq/features/landing?id=content_5735

Ten pages long, but it gives you an idea of what he brings to the table with regards to young impressionable high school players looking to make it big.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

if a kid has his scholarship revoked for reasons other than academics or conduct, can he transfer without the year "penalty?"


That's a good question, but I would think not. A transfer is a transfer even if the guy is not on scholarship. If Lee Melchionni transferred when Coach K asked him to be a walk-on for a year, he still would have been considered a transfer in the eyes of the NCAA. As long as you are registered at the original school, I think you go through the same process.

[Tappan Zee Devil]

The Amaker situation is in no ways comparable to Kentucky overstocking players on scholarship:


3. Holy cow! Players 14 through 19 on one of the worst teams in Division I?? Where would they go? They probably couldn't make the starting lineup at most Division III schools. And why is this even a story?!?!?


5. The Amaker issue was a non-story fed by a NY Times sports staff that had previously reported on Harvard hoops (true confession: I am a NY Times subscriber) and never should have been printed. As might be expected at Harvard (and maybe even at Duke), certain parents of the affected players were not hesitant about calling the NY Times.

sagegrouse

Didn't you just answer your own question?

[Newton_14]

if a kid has his scholarship revoked for reasons other than academics or conduct, can he transfer without the year "penalty?"


That's a good question, but I would think not. A transfer is a transfer even if the guy is not on scholarship. If Lee Melchionni transferred when Coach K asked him to be a walk-on for a year, he still would have been considered a transfer in the eyes of the NCAA. As long as you are registered at the original school, I think you go through the same process.

I agree but using Lee Melchionni is not a good example. Lee was a part of a 6 man class in a year when Duke only had 5 scholarships. He agreed to come to Duke knowing he would have to walk on and pay his own way his Freshman year and with the agreement he would be under scholarship his soph, Jr, and Sr years, which is what happened. He did not start out under scholarship and then have it taken away for a year.

[TemporaryInsanity]

Melchionni agreement is opposite of the Donald Williams situation at UK. He was going to walk-on at Marquette last year before UK offered him a scholarship. It was a one year offer, since UK had an extra ride with Donald knowing he would be a walk-on in year 2.

As for the other 3(if Meeks returns)... .there was a LOT going on at UK before Gillespie was let go. There are multiple scenarios that can explain players transferring with a coaching change; incoming recruits, grades, etc..etc..etc..etc..etc...

On the surface it definitely doesn't look good... I agree, and as a UK and college basketball fan I don't want us to "run off" any of the kids. We may never know the real reasons behind every transfer, but the situation has to play out first.

[Kfanarmy]

S E M A N T I C S

It all comes down to that plain and simple.

that is a sad indictment on ethics education. not being able to tell what is right or wrong unless it is written in a rule book precludes you from being able to make an ethical decision in any new situation, essentially unless their are rules enforcers around.

[ACCBBallFan]

I don't know the rules, but maybe somebody does. If UK has 17 on scholarship and only 13 can ,, be on scholarship ?? how does it work ?
Can Cal have 4 Soph, Jr or Sr. Redshirt for Wall's ONE and DONE yr ? then bring them back ?
I don't know all the different type redshirts there are,, medical redhirt ? what do they call all the Freshmen football redshirts ?

Rogue, I don't think anyone answered you question. So here is my undrstanding.

Red-shirt players on scholarship still count against the limit of 13 the year they sit out. So that does not solve the problem,

Only way out is that some of these guys be shown the door, or having to pay own freight or helped to transfer somewhere they did not want to go, lose a year of PT if Div I, possibly lose academic credits, etc..

When Meeks if not already gone, Patterson, Wall and probably Cousins and others are gone if Cal does not get another batch of one and dones to replace them, the guys who stick around may make slots 10-13 scholarships back again some year or be walk ons.

Dave Leitao at UVA had 14 the year Singletary unexpectedly came back had to deal with it, but 17 is way beyond accidental. Can't recall how he wiggled out of it, but know there was a problem.

Though still a flavor of unethical, what might be fairer to the students is to after revoking their scholarsips, give them some under the table money.

If they choose to not even walk on and just get the academics paid for, not that shady as other options, best of several bad options

If Cal or booster pays them out of their picket and Cal lets them walk on as practice players who are virtually assured they get no PT this year and take their chances next year, less ethical but not as unethical as some other options..

Forty years ago when I was in college if someone paid my freight, there is no issue. If I walk on and make the team it gets a little grey. If I am a really good player (so purely hypothertical) and start, thus just skirting hte rules, it's back to scum bag.

Comparisons to what happens in football as happened on other boards don't cut it as the football limit though probably double digits is way higher than 13, and two wrongs do not make a right.

[BD80]

Three down, one or two to go

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-kentucky-scholarships&prov=ap&type=lgns


Kentucky announced Tuesday that three players from last year’s squad are leaving the program, bringing the Wildcats closer to their roster limit of 13 scholarship players.

Sophomore forward A.J. Stewart plans to transfer, as does 6-foot-3 freshman Donald Williams. Senior Jared Carter will not seek a fifth year of eligibility. Kentucky is now down to 15 scholarship players—including coach John Calipari’s incoming freshman class.

That number could be 14 should top scorer Jodie Meeks leave for the NBA draft.

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Breaking story about John Wall's sentencing following last month's arrest....http://www.wral.com/

[blueprofessor]

Breaking story about John Wall's sentencing following last month's arrest....http://www.wral.com/

In Lexington, isn't practicing your shot community service?

Best--Blue Prof:)

[El_Diablo]

Breaking story about John Wall's sentencing following last month's arrest....http://www.wral.com/

Here's what it says...

Breaking News: Local high school basketball standout John Wall has been sentenced to 75 hours of community service in connection with a breaking and entering last month.

[KenTankerous]

In Lexington, isn't practicing your shot community service?

Best--Blue Prof:)

NO!

Making your shots.

[FireOgilvie]

This is a great day for Kentucky if you believe that bad press is better than no press. Three stories on ESPN right now: John Wall pleading guilty to the misdemeanor, Gillispie suing the school, and Memphis/Calipari being investigated for various infractions. Nice work!

[whereinthehellami]

You know what they say about alot of smoke. There is either one heck of a barbeque going down or Kentucky is a top 10 team again.

[blueprofessor]

Not every Wildcat scribe is playing dumb!
http://www.kentucky.com/827/story/811108.html

Eye-opening and extremely critical call--out!

Best--Blueprofessor:)

[KenTankerous]

I have made my discomfort with Calipari painfully obvious on this board. But being that we have lapsed a bit, I want to explore a phenomenon that I've been keenly attuned to since Cal was hired - actually, since Billy Clyde was dismissed.

Kentucky was a joke when they dismissed Tubby. And Duke nation took great pleasure in the antics and fumbles of Gillespie - he had no contract, he had no class, he had no recruits, he had no game against Gardner-Webb, he had less against VMI. Third round exit from the NIT! You reveled in that. Many of you were even sympathetic and conciliatory, wanting UK to return to prominence because that was good for college hoops as a whole.

Then UK reels in Calipari, a wizkid dribbledrive coordinator and John Wooden caliber recruiter. You guys turn a little cold to your conciliation.

Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat.

And now Chicago school board changes grades and doesn't thoroughly check ID's at the SAT's and Kentucky needs to be given the kiss of death - no scholarships, no tv, no post season.

What I am trying to get my head around is they way Duke fans think anyone that lands a recruit they wanted and Coach K courted must have cheated to get them to NOT go to Duke. I mean, did the whole Maggette incident not register on your radars? There is almost always a little dirt with these million dollar shoe contract teenagers.

So if you can give Coach K a pass on Maggette, how can you fry Kentucky for something that might have happened in Chicago to benefit a recruit to Memphis?

[roywhite]

I have made my discomfort with Calipari painfully obvious on this board. But being that we have lapsed a bit, I want to explore a phenomenon that I've been keenly attuned to since Cal was hired - actually, since Billy Clyde was dismissed.

Kentucky was a joke when they dismissed Tubby. And Duke nation took great pleasure in the antics and fumbles of Gillespie - he had no contract, he had no class, he had no recruits, he had no game against Gardner-Webb, he had less against VMI. Third round exit from the NIT! You reveled in that. Many of you were even sympathetic and conciliatory, wanting UK to return to prominence because that was good for college hoops as a whole.

Then UK reels in Calipari, a wizkid dribbledrive coordinator and John Wooden caliber recruiter. You guys turn a little cold to your conciliation.

Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat.

And now Chicago school board changes grades and doesn't thoroughly check ID's at the SAT's and Kentucky needs to be given the kiss of death - no scholarships, no tv, no post season.

What I am trying to get my head around is they way Duke fans think anyone that lands a recruit they wanted and Coach K courted must have cheated to get them to NOT go to Duke. I mean, did the whole Maggette incident not register on your radars? There is almost always a little dirt with these million dollar shoe contract teenagers.

So if you can give Coach K a pass on Maggette, how can you fry Kentucky for something that might have happened in Chicago to benefit a recruit to Memphis?

Ken, I enjoy your contributions to the board. But I don't see recent allegations about Rose's recruitment to Memphis and about UK's over-recruitment of scholarship players as having much to do with Duke. Duke had nothing to do with the article quoted above. Coach K never brought in 17 players for 13 spots. Duke has never had a Final Four appearance "vacated". Calipari has had one Final Four appearance vacated and is working on two.

[allenmurray]

I have made my discomfort with Calipari painfully obvious on this board. But being that we have lapsed a bit, I want to explore a phenomenon that I've been keenly attuned to since Cal was hired - actually, since Billy Clyde was dismissed.

Kentucky was a joke when they dismissed Tubby. And Duke nation took great pleasure in the antics and fumbles of Gillespie - he had no contract, he had no class, he had no recruits, he had no game against Gardner-Webb, he had less against VMI. Third round exit from the NIT! You reveled in that. Many of you were even sympathetic and conciliatory, wanting UK to return to prominence because that was good for college hoops as a whole.

Then UK reels in Calipari, a wizkid dribbledrive coordinator and John Wooden caliber recruiter. You guys turn a little cold to your conciliation.

Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat.

And now Chicago school board changes grades and doesn't thoroughly check ID's at the SAT's and Kentucky needs to be given the kiss of death - no scholarships, no tv, no post season.

What I am trying to get my head around is they way Duke fans think anyone that lands a recruit they wanted and Coach K courted must have cheated to get them to NOT go to Duke. I mean, did the whole Maggette incident not register on your radars? There is almost always a little dirt with these million dollar shoe contract teenagers.

So if you can give Coach K a pass on Maggette, how can you fry Kentucky for something that might have happened in Chicago to benefit a recruit to Memphis?

frequency

[KenTankerous]

Good valid points, Roy and Allen. But I don't think I am articulating my question correctly.

Let me try again.

Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become?

I suppose this could be construed as trying to get Duke fans to admit that, when competitive, Kentucky really does matter.

We all know that Kentucky will do things for wins that Coach K and Duke would never even consider. But why is it suddenly a talking point? The allegations are not that damning, really. It seems to me that were Kentucky not a potential force to be reckoned with next March, the SAT and grade bumping would be a "Hey did anyone notice" type thread that would quickly sink to page two.

But maybe I am just fishing for validation and spending way too much time posting about why we are posting about what we are posting.

[Indoor66]

Good valid points, Roy and Allen. But I don't think I am articulating my question correctly.

Let me try again.

Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become?

I suppose this could be construed as trying to get Duke fans to admit that, when competitive, Kentucky really does matter.

We all know that Kentucky will do things for wins that Coach K and Duke would never even consider. But why is it suddenly a talking point? The allegations are not that damning, really. It seems to me that were Kentucky not a potential force to be reckoned with next March, the SAT and grade bumping would be a "Hey did anyone notice" type thread that would quickly sink to page two.

But maybe I am just fishing for validation and spending way too much time posting about why we are posting about what we are posting.

Is this as opposed to posting about posters who post about what we are posting in these posts?

[KenTankerous]

Is this as opposed to posting about posters who post about what we are posting in these posts?

Kind of, It is more about what gets posted when postings are posted regarding the postings that people are and are NOT posting, and more importantly why they are posting them on a weekend as beautiful as this when they should be gardening.

And gardening, yeah, Cal's got dirt under his fingernails. But he didn't scratch dirt. He wasn't even aware that was dirt he was scratching. That dirt was in Chicago. He can't reach that from here.

[Indoor66]

Kind of, It is more about what gets posted when postings are posted regarding the postings that people are and are NOT posting, and more importantly why they are posting them on a weekend as beautiful as this when they should be gardening.

And gardening, yeah, Cal's got dirt under his fingernails. But he didn't scratch dirt. He wasn't even aware that was dirt he was scratching. That dirt was in Chicago. He can't reach that from here.

Oh! Now I understand. Thank you. :D

[Lulu]

...Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become? ...

I personally do not think this is accurate at all. Calipari and Memphis were always pretty high on the radar, and there has been talk on these boards for years about his ethics and the type of program he runs. There were full rounds of discussion when news came out about Memphis having a 0% graduation rate, as just one example from a few years ago that I can recall off the top of my head.

Kentucky is a classic big name basketball program. When Kentucky gets a new coach it's big news in the college basketball world. When Kentucky decides to bring in a coach with an ethical background that has knowingly been challenged for years that is also big news. This might be why there are full blown stories and articles about this all over the web, not just at DBR.

This has nothing to do with John Wall, apart from the scholarship situation and that discussion. John Wall might have perked up these boards for a bit before announcing, bringing it a bit more traffic for the off-season months, but the discussion about Kentucky and Calipari wouldn't be any different. Those of us who always wished Kentucky would regain some of their prominence just wanted it to happen with a coach with a more respectable reputation and perhaps carrying an image with at least some semblance of devotion to the "collegiate" part of collegiate athletes. I can't even speak to whether Calipari has actually done anything wrong, but there is no doubt what reputation he carried, and that did not matter to Kentucky. (And we all know it wasn't because they thought an honest guy with a bad rep deserved a shot at coaching their team... There were far more important things at play.)

I don't like to see any school other than Duke win the title, but Tubby winning is a hundred-fold better than Calipari. I'm not even sure who I'd pick if it were Calipari vs Calhoun... but I guess I can just go with Cal and call it a day.

[grossbus]

"I'm not even sure who I'd pick if it were Calipari vs Calhoun."

a very tough call, indeed. history would make me go with cal, too.

[blueprofessor]

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2009/jun/03/on-the-defense/

The disgust grows!
Best--Blueprofessor:)

[TemporaryInsanity]

Don't know if anyone has seen this yet. Unfortunately it's an insider article....
there is a summary on kentuckysportsradio...

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/insi...=bilas_jay&id=4227055

[BD80]

... Cal lands the greatest recruiting class since God got letters of intent from John the Baptist AND Jesus Christ. Well surely, according to this board, he HAD to cheat. ...

Now that would have been an interesting recruiting battle ... there were less recruiting rules. God was a bit more active in recruiting back then, and took full advantage of his ability to contact recruits anywhere anytime, even if he did stoop to negative recruiting from time to time. And talk about wild promises: an eternity of PT?

Interesting thing, back then God would have been the coach known for emphasizing individual play making, see, e.g. David, Moses, Joshua.

Still, Cal is one hell of a recruiter; if anyone could keep up, its him. Although, I do have this image of Billy Donovan hanging out around the manger, just to be one of the first to wave hello.

[Kfanarmy]

Good valid points, Roy and Allen. But I don't think I am articulating my question correctly.

Let me try again.

Before being hired at UK, Calipari was pretty low on the DBR radar. Had he not gone to Kentucky would the NCAA allegations be as relevant to DBR as they have become?

I suppose this could be construed as trying to get Duke fans to admit that, when competitive, Kentucky really does matter.

We all know that Kentucky will do things for wins that Coach K and Duke would never even consider. But why is it suddenly a talking point? The allegations are not that damning, really. It seems to me that were Kentucky not a potential force to be reckoned with next March, the SAT and grade bumping would be a "Hey did anyone notice" type thread that would quickly sink to page two.

But maybe I am just fishing for validation and spending way too much time posting about why we are posting about what we are posting.

I think there were considerable comments about Calipari's recruiting and the potential that nefarious deals were getting players to Memphis long before He transferred to Kentucky. The movement to a school that has been reestablishing a Good and competitive basketball program by Calipari while Duke was competing for potential star players has only heightened the interest. But the interest itself has been apparent for the entire time I've been a member of DBR...which compared to some is not soo long.

[JasonEvans]

I am a little surprised no one here is commenting on the increasingly absurd situation with Robert Dozier's SAT scores. There is no question that he cheated the first time he took the test, right? Memphis knew he cheated (all scores get reported to the school so they had to see the cheating score), but Coach Cal took him anyway because Calipari does not care about ethics at all so long as he can win games.

For those of you who have not heard, Dozier took the test (or someone took it for him) and got a 1260, which would put him in the mid-80s in terms of his percentile. But, the SAT questioned that result (because Dozier's previous standardized tests taken over the years put him in more like the 5th percentile) so they had him take the test again and this time they made sure he was actually the person taking the test. On the retest, the real Robert Dozier scored a 720, which is in the bottom 5-10% of scores.

It is simply not possible for the same person to go from a 1260 to a 720. It does not happen unless cheating is going on. Georgia, not exactly a bastion of integrity in college sports, refused to admit Dozier. The Dawgs knew he was a cheater and they did not want him. John Calipari saw the scores and said, "come on down!! There's always room for the ethically challenged at my school!!"

And now Calipari wants us to think that he had no idea that Rose was doing the same thing? Puh-lease!! How stupid do you think we are Coach Cal?

--Jason "the NCAA should be embarassed that its enforcement arm is so inept" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Here is an amusing take (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/blog/the_dagger/post/Robert-Dozier-s-SAT-scores-are-kind-of-hilarious?urn=ncaab,168367) on Dozier's scores.

-Jason

[grossbus]

how can Cal avoid the heat on this?

[Vincetaylor]

I am a little surprised no one here is commenting on the increasingly absurd situation with Robert Dozier's SAT scores. There is no question that he cheated the first time he took the test, right? Memphis knew he cheated (all scores get reported to the school so they had to see the cheating score), but Coach Cal took him anyway because Calipari does not care about ethics at all so long as he can win games.

For those of you who have not heard, Dozier took the test (or someone took it for him) and got a 1260, which would put him in the mid-80s in terms of his percentile. But, the SAT questioned that result (because Dozier's previous standardized tests taken over the years put him in more like the 5th percentile) so they had him take the test again and this time they made sure he was actually the person taking the test. On the retest, the real Robert Dozier scored a 720, which is in the bottom 5-10% of scores.

It is simply not possible for the same person to go from a 1260 to a 720. It does not happen unless cheating is going on. Georgia, not exactly a bastion of integrity in college sports, refused to admit Dozier. The Dawgs knew he was a cheater and they did not want him. John Calipari saw the scores and said, "come on down!! There's always room for the ethically challenged at my school!!"

And now Calipari wants us to think that he had no idea that Rose was doing the same thing? Puh-lease!! How stupid do you think we are Coach Cal?

--Jason "the NCAA should be embarassed that its enforcement arm is so inept" Evans


I agree with you. It's blatant cheating. The relationship with the Laurinburg Institute smells pretty bad too. Calipari was captain of the Memphis ship when all of this was going down, so he deserves to suffer some consequences. I really don't understand why people bother to defend Cal anymore. The guy is a crook. It's obvious. It's time for the NCAA to do something about it or we could eventually have our first vacated NCAA title.

[BD80]

I am a little surprised no one here is commenting on the increasingly absurd situation with Robert Dozier's SAT scores. There is no question that he cheated the first time he took the test, right? Memphis knew he cheated (all scores get reported to the school so they had to see the cheating score), but Coach Cal took him anyway because Calipari does not care about ethics at all so long as he can win games.

... Dozier took the test (or someone took it for him) and got a 1260, .... On the retest, the real Robert Dozier scored a 720 ...

--Jason "the NCAA should be embarrassed that its enforcement arm is so inept" Evans

My question is, what score did Memphis accept for Dozier to be qualified? Was the 720 score sufficient? Wasn't the 1260 score invalidated?

In one sense, I would like to see Dozier get a pass on this one, because he did graduate. However, I think the school needs to conduct a limited inquiry, because it sounds like a degree in "interdisciplinary studies" is a way of saying that he took the easiest courses available in the university and we gave him a degree for it. But it doesn't sound like Memphis conducts the most rigorous self investigations.

Similarly, it would be interesting for Memphis to come out and show the world that Rose was a legitimate student while he was there, show the courses he passed and that he attended regularly. Yeah, I know, ain't gonna happen either.

Instead we get BS about how Rose "cooperated" with the investigation. Rat doo doo. Rose AVOIDED cooperation and specifically refused to validate his scores. Now Rose won't specifically deny cheating. Total sham.

I believe that Rose's test score was invalidated, which would make him ineligible when he played. Memphis knew the kid was below the line on his first couple of test attempts, in my mind they had the duty to monitor the situation. Having that season wiped out would be fair punishment. It would prompt schools to be a bit more diligent when they have notice of potential issues.

[JimBD]

I am a little surprised no one here is commenting on the increasingly absurd situation with Robert Dozier's SAT scores. There is no question that he cheated the first time he took the test, right? Memphis knew he cheated (all scores get reported to the school so they had to see the cheating score), but Coach Cal took him anyway because Calipari does not care about ethics at all so long as he can win games.

For those of you who have not heard, Dozier took the test (or someone took it for him) and got a 1260, which would put him in the mid-80s in terms of his percentile. But, the SAT questioned that result (because Dozier's previous standardized tests taken over the years put him in more like the 5th percentile) so they had him take the test again and this time they made sure he was actually the person taking the test. On the retest, the real Robert Dozier scored a 720, which is in the bottom 5-10% of scores.

It is simply not possible for the same person to go from a 1260 to a 720. It does not happen unless cheating is going on. Georgia, not exactly a bastion of integrity in college sports, refused to admit Dozier. The Dawgs knew he was a cheater and they did not want him. John Calipari saw the scores and said, "come on down!! There's always room for the ethically challenged at my school!!"

And now Calipari wants us to think that he had no idea that Rose was doing the same thing? Puh-lease!! How stupid do you think we are Coach Cal?

--Jason "the NCAA should be embarassed that its enforcement arm is so inept" Evans
I am surprised that no one is discussing a similar situation with Roy Williams at Kansas. http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/06/memphis_basketball_teaches_the.html Scroll down. Apparently DeShawn Stevenson committed to Kansas when his SAT score went from 450 to 1150. However, when the Educational Testing Service required him to retake the exam, he scored less than 650, did not qualify, and went straight to the NBA.

[SupaDave]

I am a little surprised no one here is commenting on the increasingly absurd situation with Robert Dozier's SAT scores. There is no question that he cheated the first time he took the test, right? Memphis knew he cheated (all scores get reported to the school so they had to see the cheating score), but Coach Cal took him anyway because Calipari does not care about ethics at all so long as he can win games.

For those of you who have not heard, Dozier took the test (or someone took it for him) and got a 1260, which would put him in the mid-80s in terms of his percentile. But, the SAT questioned that result (because Dozier's previous standardized tests taken over the years put him in more like the 5th percentile) so they had him take the test again and this time they made sure he was actually the person taking the test. On the retest, the real Robert Dozier scored a 720, which is in the bottom 5-10% of scores.

It is simply not possible for the same person to go from a 1260 to a 720. It does not happen unless cheating is going on. Georgia, not exactly a bastion of integrity in college sports, refused to admit Dozier. The Dawgs knew he was a cheater and they did not want him. John Calipari saw the scores and said, "come on down!! There's always room for the ethically challenged at my school!!"

And now Calipari wants us to think that he had no idea that Rose was doing the same thing? Puh-lease!! How stupid do you think we are Coach Cal?

--Jason "the NCAA should be embarassed that its enforcement arm is so inept" Evans

Actually, this reminded me of something. UGA had just gone through their situation with the Harricks so they wouldn't touch something like that with a 100 foot pole. Calipari had a shorter track record with a new school and he was trying to rebuild a program. Sounds like just one gamble of many...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/news/2003/03/10/georgiasuspends_harrick_ap/

Maybe using Georgia as a litmus in this situation isn't exactly showing how bad a guy Cal is/was...

[gotham devil]

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/06/08/DONEAL_MACKS_TEST_ALSO_FLAGGED_IN_HIGH_SCHOOL_TAJ_ STILL_UNDECIDED

That means that three of the top six scorers from John Calipari's team last season have question marks with their test scores.

[JasonEvans]

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/goodmanonfox/2009/06/08/DONEAL_MACKS_TEST_ALSO_FLAGGED_IN_HIGH_SCHOOL_TAJ_ STILL_UNDECIDED

That means that three of the top six scorers from John Calipari's team last season have question marks with their test scores.

Doneal Mack was supposed to go to Florida, but they would not take him because of fishy test scores. Memphis took him anyway.

When SEC schools say you are not up to their standards of ethics and intellect... whew, that is really saying something ;)

--Jason "John Wall and Eric Bledsoe's test scores better be spotless" Evans

[SupaDave]

This makes me wonder. What kind of shape was Memphis' program in before Cal took over? I can't remember to be honest. The last thing I remembered before Cal was lil' Penny...

[JasonEvans]

Cal has kicked a kid off the team. Someone named Matt Pilgrim (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=559324) is not getting his scholly renewed.

-Jason "niiice" Evans

[Vincetaylor]

This makes me wonder. What kind of shape was Memphis' program in before Cal took over? I can't remember to be honest. The last thing I remembered before Cal was lil' Penny...

Who knows. He's definitely left it in much worse shape. It's quite possible his best seasons there could be erased from the record books too. Convenient for him that all of this comes to light after he's gone.

[-jk]

Cal has kicked a kid off the team. Someone named Matt Pilgrim (http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=559324) is not getting his scholly renewed.

-Jason "niiice" Evans

The article says he sat out last year transferring into UK. Does he have to sit out another year transferring somewhere else, or does he get credit for time served?

If not, that's two years with no games and two of his five years to play four.

-jk

[JasonEvans]

Here is a an article (http://kentucky.scout.com/2/871738.html) from a Kentucky writer justifying the dumping of this kid. Apparently a kid named Kevin Galloway has also been booted.

--Jason "win at all costs, the education and the lives of these kids do not matter" Evans

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

Here is a an article (http://kentucky.scout.com/2/871738.html) from a Kentucky writer justifying the dumping of this kid. Apparently a kid named Kevin Galloway has also been booted.

--Jason "win at all costs, the education and the lives of these kids do not matter" Evans
Thanks for the link. That article brought the term rationalization to life!

[Stray Gator]

Thanks for the link. That article brought the term rationalization to life!

To quote a cinematic icon, "Your lack of faith is disturbing." This column confirms that John Calipari is a widely misunderstood and underappreciated humanitarian. The difficult burden fell upon him to act in the best interests of these two young men by releasing them from their commitment to a program where they were destined to suffer only frustration, disappointment, and indignity, thus affording them the opportunity to realize their dreams of playing college basketball in an environment where they could successfully compete. For making this selfless sacrifice, Coach Calipari has earned--and someday will undoubtedly receive--the gratitude of the two players and their families. :rolleyes:

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

To quote a cinematic icon, "Your lack of faith is disturbing." This column confirms that John Calipari is a widely misunderstood and underappreciated humanitarian. The difficult burden fell upon him to act in the best interests of these two young men by releasing them from their commitment to a program where they were destined to suffer only frustration, disappointment, and indignity, thus affording them the opportunity to realize their dreams of playing college basketball in an environment where they could successfully compete. For making this selfless sacrifice, Coach Calipari has earned--and someday will undoubtedly receive--the gratitude of the two players and their families. :rolleyes:

Wow! I wasn't sure when I got to the end of that post whether I'd need a Kleenex or a shovel.

[mph]

Here is a an article (http://kentucky.scout.com/2/871738.html) from a Kentucky writer justifying the dumping of this kid. Apparently a kid named Kevin Galloway has also been booted.

--Jason "win at all costs, the education and the lives of these kids do not matter" Evans

What a bunch of malarkey. The "it's a business" refrain has become the primary defense for all sorts of ethically suspect acts committed by college athletics departments. And here I thought college was a place for students to learn how to improve the culture. Is it too much to ask that our colleges demonstrate a business model that prioritizes values other than the economic bottom line?

[roywhite]

What a bunch of malarkey. The "it's a business" refrain has become the primary defense for all sorts of ethically suspect acts committed by college athletics departments. And here I thought college was a place for students to learn how to improve the culture. Is it too much to ask that our colleges demonstrate a business model that prioritizes values other than the economic bottom line?

http://kentucky.scout.com/2/871715.html

More of the same from another writer (Larry Vaught is the latest apologist) covering Kentucky. From the article:

"Calipari has done nothing wrong. Coaches can pull scholarships for good reason -- academics, discipline, etc. -- or for no reason other than they have recruited better players. That’s what has happened at UK"

The player, Matt Pilgrim, and his father have questioned what happened here, legal or not.

Slimey state of affairs in Lexington.

[eightyearoldsdude]

Calipari has really worked a minor miracle: UNC and Duke fans can agree on something. The man is a complete slime. He's off-brand lubricant. He's blue-green algae. He makes even the most productive mucous membranes envious.

And I am so glad he landed at Kentucky.

[Acymetric]

Is it really the case that a kid can't transfer and play immediately even if his scholarship gets yanked? Thats the most rediculous thing I've ever heard
(oops, is my hyperbole showing?)

I think thats something the NCAA should take a look at and change in the near future. Maybe even right now.

[roywhite]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4260200

Sharp-shooter Jodie Meeks has announced he will remain as an NBA draft candidate and not return for his senior season at Kentucky.
Meeks is quite a shooter, better than Wayne Ellignton IMO.

[whereinthehellami]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4260200

Sharp-shooter Jodie Meeks has announced he will remain as an NBA draft candidate and not return for his senior season at Kentucky.
Meeks is quite a shooter, better than Wayne Ellignton IMO.

That definately leaves a hole in their national title drive. He was their only good 3 point shooter. The returning players all shoot under 33% from 3. And i think that Wall will be streaky at best from downtown. Serves Cal right. Unless he can buy himslef a shooter before the season starts.

[roywhite]

That definately leaves a hole in their national title drive. He was their only good 3 point shooter. The returning players all shoot under 33% from 3. And i think that Wall will be streaky at best from downtown. Serves Cal right. Unless he can buy himself a shooter before the season starts.


Yikes, don't give him any ideas. I can picture him holding an early summer mini-camp to see if he's got somebody at the shooting guard position. Then he could make a couple more roster moves, and bring in a kid from Europe or Australia for a year. An Andrew Gaze type. :)

[ktgirl]

http://kentucky.scout.com/2/871715.html

More of the same from another writer (Larry Vaught is the latest apologist) covering Kentucky. From the article:

"Calipari has done nothing wrong. Coaches can pull scholarships for good reason -- academics, discipline, etc. -- or for no reason other than they have recruited better players. That’s what has happened at UK"

The player, Matt Pilgrim, and his father have questioned what happened here, legal or not.

Slimey state of affairs in Lexington.


Scholarships are not are guarantee at any college in any division. My niece attends college on a swim scholarship and each year there is always the chance that she may not receive it or the value change. Fortunately as a senior, she has received all four years (even with a shoulder injury).

[roywhite]

Scholarships are not are guarantee at any college in any division. My niece attends college on a swim scholarship and each year there is always the chance that she may not receive it or the value change. Fortunately as a senior, she has received all four years (even with a shoulder injury).

Well, you're correct about the letter of the law here.

Let's try an illustration involving your niece:

She's on a swimming scholarship
She attends practice regularly, works at her sport, and contributes to the team
She is a good student and good citizen in college
She learns in May or June that her scholarship won't be renewed, because the coaches found a back-stroke specialist who projects as a star performer and they need to free up a scholarship.
One school may offer her some scholarship aid, but she would be required to sit out a year as a transfer
She can stay at the current school, but she and her family have the full responsbility financially

Would you, or your niece, be okay with that type situation?

[The1Bluedevil]

On ESPN College basketball insider Gottlieb discussed the recent de commitment of Josh Selby a 2010 elite point guard prospect who had committed to Tennessee. He decided to re open his recruitment at the Lebron James Skills Academy while at the same Academy Selby’s mother acknowledged having a conversation with World Wide Wes (Calipari’s right hand man). Pearl’s associate head coach said “"I'll just say something smells right now."

[JasonEvans]

On ESPN College basketball insider Gottlieb discussed the recent de commitment of Josh Selby a 2010 elite point guard prospect who had committed to Tennessee. He decided to re open his recruitment at the Lebron James Skills Academy while at the same Academy Selby’s mother acknowledged having a conversation with World Wide Wes (Calipari’s right hand man). Pearl’s associate head coach said “"I'll just say something smells right now."

I'll set the line...

The over/under on the number of NCAA appearances that will say "vacated" instead of Kentucky over the next 10 years is 3. Who wants the under?

--Jason "the NCAA infractions department is going to open a branch office in Lexington"

[SupaDave]

I'll set the line...

The over/under on the number of NCAA appearances that will say "vacated" instead of Kentucky over the next 10 years is 3. Who wants the under?

--Jason "the NCAA infractions department is going to open a branch office in Lexington"

All I know is that Wes has been getting a LOT of press lately. It's pretty safe to say that his cover is blown...

[The1Bluedevil]

I'll set the line...

The over/under on the number of NCAA appearances that will say "vacated" instead of Kentucky over the next 10 years is 3. Who wants the under?

--Jason "the NCAA infractions department is going to open a branch office in Lexington"

Hopefully the UK faithful runs him out before 10 years.

[Memphis Devil]

Hopefully the UK faithful runs him out before 10 years.

Ha! Not a chance. Cal and WW Wes were beloved here in Memphis. The back room dealing and slime ball antics were brushed aside by the Memphis faithful as everyone else just being jealous. I would suspect exactly the same to happen in Lexington.

[BD80]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/12018533


"... I don't believe we should recruit in the summer," Kentucky coach John Calipari ...

But it is useful, particularly for the non-power schools. And eliminating it would only widen the gap between the haves and have-nots of college basketball.

That's why Calipari is for eliminating summer recruiting.

It wouldn't hurt him one bit.

Calipari is at a big school (Kentucky) with unique resources (private jets) and in possession of great relationships that aid in the process of securing players.

Quite the understatement.

He ain't just WEStling Dixie

[jesus_hurley]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread, but I had a thought earlier about overall wins. Before Cal was hired I was pretty sure UNC would take over as the team with the most wins this coming season. Now that Cal is there the question becomes less of when and more of how? When Cal gets another season of wins vacated? Or will they get it on the court?

Of course this will ultimately be a moot point since Duke will pass both of them before too long :)

[BlueintheFace]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/12211815

Nothing big or just the beginning?

Remember that Chris Collins had a secondary violation this last year. However, If I am Kentucky and the center of national attention re: ethics/violations, I am double-checking every potential violation. This isn't just one violation either.

[BD80]

The guy "resigned" immediately. Go figure. Cal really stands by his people doesn't he?


Batley, whose hiring as assistant director of basketball operations/manager was announced by UK on May 30, left the school before the fall semester began, spokesman DeWayne Peevy said.

Is this the replacement?

http://community.foxsports.com/goodmanonfox/blog/2009/09/08/calipari_hires_lebrons_buddy_as_graduate_assistant

Some might be amused that Goodman initially titled the blurb:

"CALIPARI HIRES LEBRON'S BOY AS GRADUATE ASSISTANT"

"Boy" was changed to "Buddy" as the complaints came in.

I am certain that Cal hired Brandon Weems, a four year starter at Div II Walsh University because of his demonstrated abilities on a basketball staff and not because he played high school ball with Lebron and is a close friend of Lebron and Worldwide Wes.

It's not like there were any more qualified candidates who would have been interested in that position at a basketball program like Kentucky.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Andy Katz just put up this extensive article (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/columns/story?columnist=katz_andy&id=4479770) concerning agents/coaches and runners...etc.. what a mess college hoops has going these days in some areas.

I put it here because it seemed to fit and Calipari is quoted.

[Billy Dat]

Interview (audio) between WFAN's Mike Francesca and John Callipari.

Francesca is one of the biggest Callipari supporters there is. This is basically a forum for him to push his latest book, but they get into all the big subjects, including all the NCAA investigations:

http://www.wfan.com/pages/744503.php

Or, find it via iTunes' podcast section under "Mike Francesca".

[BD80]

Kentucky's John Calipari gave a 10-minute speech to 24,000 fans at Rupp Arena, and he delivered the following line: "Our history is rooted in our coaches: Rupp and Hall and Smith."

That's Adolph Rupp, Joe B. Hall and Tubby Smith.

Notably missing: Former UK coach Rick Pitino.

I'm certain it was not an oversight.

http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/17758399

Calimari is a little man. As DBR notes on the front page, it is an issue of when, not if.

[airowe]

http://www.newsobserver.com/sports/story/163294.html


After coyly trying to deflect questions about John Wall's uncertain eligibility, Kentucky basketball coach John Calipari tried to downplay the significance of the heralded freshman's status.

"That's all stuff that is a private matter," Calipari said after UK's Blue-White Game on Wednesday night.


Follow-up questions, especially one that noted Wall, who went to Raleigh's Word of God High School, told USA Today on Tuesday that he had not gained full eligibility, led Calipari to say that saying the freshman had been cleared could be misleading.

"There's all kinds of different levels of clearance," Calipari said, affirming that Wall had not cleared them all.

[diveonthefloor]

Wall penalty pretty light:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4610060

[BD80]

Wall penalty pretty light:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4610060

Uh oh. Can WWWes afford $800?

If Wall had selected Duke and the 2 game suspension had included an exhibition game, think the fall-out would be different?

[BD80]

Wall penalty pretty light:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4610060

Penalty was supposed to be suspension for 10% of games. Ky has 30 games on schedule plus 2 exhibition games. 10% of 30 = 2? Must be Ky math.

Even our Sociology majors would do better. :)

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Calipari gets lucky (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4610060).

[taiw93]

Rick Pitino gets lucky (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4392828) too ;)

Sorry, it was too good to pass up :D

[devildeac]

Wall penalty pretty light:


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4610060

What kind of penalty did Cleveland State receive?:rolleyes:;)

[gep]

Penalty was supposed to be suspension for 10% of games. Ky has 30 games on schedule plus 2 exhibition games. 10% of 30 = 2? Must be Ky math.

Even our Sociology majors would do better. :)

Not only that... from what I understand, 1 of the 2 suspension games is an *exhibition* game. Why should an exhibition game count as one of the suspension games? It doesn't even count... for anything. Amazing... Like another poster said, imagine the backlash if Wall was at Duke, and this kind of "suspension" was imposed:rolleyes:

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I can hear it now "The Rat coach got out of another one" Shaking my head. Good thing i guess.

[westwall]

as reported in National Hoops Report:

"- Kentucky fans. I do think it’s funny how a perception of a coach can change so quickly. They hated John Calipari and I used to get the emails from Kentucky fans saying how much they hated him and how shady they thought he was. They have obviously changed their tune now that he is at Kentucky.”

[oldnavy]

I kind of, sort of, wouldn't mind if Carolina beat the crap out of UK. No matter it will be one of those "can't lose" games for me, if UNC wins then UK LOSES, and if UK wins then UNC LOSES! I am a winner either way! It's all good! Can I get an AMEN!:D

[Devilsfan]

I always root against that college in chapel hill. Ol'Roy did put his public image closer to Cal's with his clandetine flight to a recruit right behind higher profile, extremely ethical coaches.

[mph]

I always root against that college in chapel hill. Ol'Roy did put his public image closer to Cal's with his clandetine flight to a recruit right behind higher profile, extremely ethical coaches.

Not comparable, IMO. Roy played within the rules and as Barnes later clarified, did nothing unethical.

I can't stomach the aw-shucks-Deputy-Dawg routine, but by all accounts Roy runs his program the right way. Cal, on the other hand, hasn't seen an NCAA rule he's unwilling to bend and there's several we already know he's broken. If Ky and UNC play I won't be cheering for either one of them, but I suspect that every time the camera shows Calipari on the sideline a little more of me will quietly root for Carolina.

[moonpie23]

maybe it could be 88-88 in double OT with an ALMOST altercation under the basket when the lights go off in the building...
:eek:

[cwaugh]

Maybe the benches will clear and they will both be given a loss :cool:

[Memphis Devil]

I kind of, sort of, wouldn't mind if Carolina beat the crap out of UK. No matter it will be one of those "can't lose" games for me, if UNC wins then UK LOSES, and if UK wins then UNC LOSES! I am a winner either way! It's all good! Can I get an AMEN!:D

My prediction is that KY beats UNC and the win is later vacated by the NCAA do to NCAA rules violations. Both teams lose!:rolleyes:

[RelativeWays]

As annoying as sheep fans are, their team has won the championship 2 times in 5 years, they've admittedly earned some trash talking justification. UK hasn't done ANYTHING since 98 and yet they act as if the NCAA should go ahead and mail them the trophy. I will activily be pulling against UK in every game they play this year, including UNC, even if they played UConn, I'm a husky that day. Let Duke take care of UNC during the ACC season, I will laugh, laugh, laugh if the sheep pound UK by 20 or more.

[oldnavy]

As annoying as sheep fans are, their team has won the championship 2 times in 5 years, they've admittedly earned some trash talking justification. UK hasn't done ANYTHING since 98 and yet they act as if the NCAA should go ahead and mail them the trophy. I will activily be pulling against UK in every game they play this year, including UNC, even if they played UConn, I'm a husky that day. Let Duke take care of UNC during the ACC season, I will laugh, laugh, laugh if the sheep pound UK by 20 or more.

That's how I feel, however if UNC loses, then I can always talk smack to my 16 y.o. and wife (both tarheel fans), so there is an upside either way.

[KYtotheCore]

As I stated in an earlier thread, I'm a fan of basketball first and UK second. As a UK fan, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about such a lofty rating, (not that they matter anyway). As a true KY fan I have to admit that Calipari wasn't my choice either. I'm excited, but wondering if we'll have to forfeit games somewhere down the road:eek:.

I'm doubtful we'll be ranked that high very long. What do you think the voters are basing this on? Anybody see the rankings any different?

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

With no clear favorite and the amazing talent y'all have I think UK has as strong a claim to your ranking as any other team would.

You may be right that freshman mistakes/chemistry will give you some early losses, but 1-5 (and really 1-10) nobody has as much pure talent as UK this season, IMO.

[Newton_14]

As I stated in an earlier thread, I'm a fan of basketball first and UK second. As a UK fan, I have to admit I'm a little skeptical about such a lofty rating, (not that they matter anyway). As a true KY fan I have to admit that Calipari wasn't my choice either. I'm excited, but wondering if we'll have to forfeit games somewhere down the road:eek:.

I'm doubtful we'll be ranked that high very long. What do you think the voters are basing this on? Anybody see the rankings any different?

The ranking is based purely on the abilities of your new coach. I mean just look at the facts..

Cal took a 5'6 125lb weakling in D. Rose who could not even dribble a basketball when he entered college, and in one short year developed and transformed him into the best NBA PG in the history of the game! And he has done that for numerous other PG's too, like umm.. wait... there was also.. and gosh darn it, I know there was at least one more...shucks, can't recall the kid's name. Anyway, the other kid was easily the 2nd best PG in the history of the game after spending that one critical year with Coach Cal..

Sorry, that was more frustration at the media than you! To be honest, your ranking is based on adding a very talented PG in Wall, combined with other highly touted freshman to a team with Patrick Patterson. I think they are ranked a little bit too high, until the frosh prove they can perform at this level.

I do feel they will have a great year but a NC is wishful thinking...

[KYtotheCore]

I recently posted a thread in response to a thread from this site talking about how in the UK/UNC game, a loss by either team is a glass half full opinion, begging the question "why?"

I got some very good responses, the majority of them with valid support. Interesting. I saw recurrent themes of shadyness, poor sportsmanship from our fanbase, and Calapari ad naseum. I felt compelled to maybe provide a POV from a single member of the UK fanbase. It's not tha anyone in Duke land should care, but let's face it - I posted this mid-afternoon and I think we can both agree that you and I aren't to interested in the work piling up in front of us right now as evidenced by us both being on here.

I had mentioned that the Laettner (thanks for the spelling) "tap" on one of our players, and some of you referenced that we just can't get over it. In all honesty, I can say that while I have, many can't seem to move on. In fact, 18 years later CBS continues to keep this game (and all that is tied to it) relevant, moreso to the KY fans, which then your fanbase has to continually endure the UK fanbase passion. It's cyclical. I couldn't begin to tell you where Laettner is now or what he's doing (Atlanta maybe? Last I saw. . .), so as you can see anyone with a deep passion about that play today would probably be more aware of his whereabouts than this UK fan.

As for the treatment of Tubby, personally I think he was a fine man, full of character. I sympathize that he felt a great deal of pressure from the fans here. Even so, as much as I admired him and his character, we got spoiled with Pitino-style ball, and if his style of ball wasn't going to be similar, it was probably doomed from the start. To borrow a quote from someone else's reply "I live and have always lived in the state of Kentucky. ...the number one reason I hate UK is the grief I've had to endure over the years from fans. I've spent some time in Lexington and I can tell you that it lives and breathes college basketball year-round. Within a single set of city limits, nobody obsesses over a hoops team more. Neither Durham nor Chapel Hill comes close. So I have, or at least had, a great appreciation for their fervor. From a safe distance." I can't speak for the entire fan base here, but I think many of us would prefer to lose exciting games than to win a slow-paced four corners style. Plus, Minnesota fans are probably thrilled the're ranked #25 and I hope they succeed. I hope we both do. To this very day, Tubby still exudes class, and at least now it's for a fan base that can appreciate his improvement. Basketball is still a business. Don't blame the messenger.

Coach Cal? - Time will tell.

Note of interest - a few years ago, I was on a cruise in Europe and approached a guy who looked familiar to me, and to confirm my thought I asked him "Is your last name Hurley?" He said yes and I got to talk to BH for a few minutes and I told him that I was a basketball fan first, and a UK fan second. He smiled and asked if I was going to harass him about that final shot, and then said that he spends a little time in the bluegrass because he has horses here. Another good example of how programs should enjoy good sportsmanship and competition. A fine product from a great coach (K)!

Any predictions on the UK/UNC game?

[allenmurray]

Any predictions on the UK/UNC game?

One team will win - the other will lose. Some people will care, but only for a brief period of time.

[Indoor66]

Any predictions on the UK/UNC game?

Is there a way they can both lose?

[CEF1959]

I had mentioned that the Laettner (thanks for the spelling) "tap" on one of our players, and some of you referenced that we just can't get over it. In all honesty, I can say that while I have, many can't seem to move on.

I would say that the fact that you have referenced that trivial moment twice in the past 24 hours, including the following quote, suggests you have not gotten over it.

"I used to really root against Duke because of the whole Laetner stomp (which just screams 9th grade), but over time they have earned almost all of their respect back. Sorry guys, the laetner incident is just something you can't repair no how many games and respectable recruits you sign."

Can a grownup really care so much about one event from so long ago that injured no one and did not affect the outcome of anything? Really? Dang, Rudy Tomjonovich got his face busted by Kermit Washington, and everyone (including Rudy T.) has moved on from that. And you certainly don't hear Duke fans whining about the hard foul Jack Givens visited upon Mike Gminski in the 1978 NCAA finals.

[roywhite]

I would say that the fact that you have referenced that trivial moment twice in the past 24 hours, including the following quote, suggests you have not gotten over it.

"I used to really root against Duke because of the whole Laetner stomp (which just screams 9th grade), but over time they have earned almost all of their respect back. Sorry guys, the laetner incident is just something you can't repair no how many games and respectable recruits you sign."

Can a grownup really care so much about one event from so long ago that injured no one and did not affect the outcome of anything? Really? Dang, Rudy Tomjonovich got his face busted by Kermit Washington, and everyone (including Rudy T.) has moved on from that. And you certainly don't hear Duke fans whining about the hard foul Jack Givens visited upon Mike Gminski in the 1978 NCAA finals.

Exactly.

Yet, this KY fan claims:
"I had mentioned that the Laettner (thanks for the spelling) "tap" on one of our players, and some of you referenced that we just can't get over it. In all honesty, I can say that while I have, many can't seem to move on. In fact, 18 years later CBS continues to keep this game (and all that is tied to it) relevant, moreso to the KY fans, which then your fanbase has to continually endure the UK fanbase passion. It's cyclical. I couldn't begin to tell you where Laettner is now or what he's doing (Atlanta maybe? Last I saw. . .), so as you can see anyone with a deep passion about that play today would probably be more aware of his whereabouts than this UK fan."

So he's not really obsessed because he doesn't know where Christian Laettner currently lives???

Hard "Core" Kentucky fans see things in their own way. We can hope for good manners, but I don't think we'll reach agreement on areas of contention.

[El_Diablo]

ESPN gives an in-depth look at this issue on OTL:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4782616&categoryid=2378529

[Duke79UNLV77]

don't even count the Gillespie incoming freshmen recruits who were run off, do they? like the guy who tehn went to wake and already is transferring from there?

what's the total calipari body count?

[ScreechTDX1847]

ESPN gives an in-depth look at this issue on OTL:

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4782616&categoryid=2378529

This is one of the reasons Calipari is a peice of I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. and indefensible by KY fans. Any KY fan who does defend it shows that they don't care what it takes to win.

[Mrezt]

I've never liked UK, mostly because of the fanbase. Mostly goes back to years ago when i knew a girl who was a huge UK fan and was just.. well a typical UK fan. Never gave their a team a thought though when they were not very good and didnt really care about them. Seems like most of the time UK fans are more obsessed with Duke than Duke is with UK. There are some UK fans (the minority) that actually talk about basketball with some sense and realistic views, but a lot that i have talked to are way too arrogant or feel like everyone should bow down to UK.

Now that they are back to being a Top-10 team, my dislike has grown. Not because they are good (which they are), but because the fans have gotten more ridiculous. I live in NC and have never seen so many UK fans pop up.. do they only come out when their team is good? Reminds me of another team's fanbase (shouldn't be too hard to figure out who).

Anyways, i've never liked Calipari and the type he recruits, but the only player that i really dont like is Cousins. Wall doesn't bother me, he's fun to watch, and i havent really payed much attention to the other players.

Like I said, they are a good team with a lot of athleticism. They'll win close games due to the likes of Wall and Patterson, but they will not remain undefeated. Their inexperience will hurt them against seasoned teams. They will win games against high-caliber teams and in my opinion will lose to a team(s) they shouldn't lose too. That said, they will roll through the SEC but will not make it to the Final Four.

And thats all of my thoughts regarding UK :)

[CameronBornAndBred]

To the mod that merged all of the UK posts into one thread....thank you very much. Now I can ignore them all much easier. :D


By the way..you skipped the John Wall thread, chuck that one in here too.

[DevilHorns]

Interesting Chat with Jay Bilas question on ESPN.

Robert Arthur (Indianapolis)


Do you see the controversies caused by Coach Calipari (thinning out the program at UK to make way for his players, programs left with vacated final fours,etc.) leading to NCAA rule changes, or increased scutiny of UK by the NCAA?

Jay Bilas (3:45 PM)


I thought the whole controversy was overblown and silly. Academic scholarships are performance based, so why shouldn't athletic scholarships be the same? This is competition, and all of the players in question had a chance to stay if they were good enough. Patrick Patterson stayed, and he is a big part of what UK is doing. I find it objectionable that some would suggest that those that left UK were Billy Gillispie's bad players, because they are not bad players. They are just not good enough to play over Wall, Cousins and Bledsoe. All of the players in question landed on their feet. It is a non-issue to me.

[YourLandlord]

Rumor swirling through the college sports information directors grapevine: New York Times going to drop a Calipari recruiting violations bomb before the tournament.

[BlueintheFace]

Rumor swirling through the college sports information directors grapevine: New York Times going to drop a Calipari recruiting violations bomb before the tournament.

I wonder if this is the source. If so, it would hardly appear to be a well founded rumor.

http://score.leoweekly.com/2010/03/08/wall-cousins-under-the-microscope/

[YourLandlord]

I wonder if this is the source. If so, it would hardly appear to be a well founded rumor.

http://score.leoweekly.com/2010/03/08/wall-cousins-under-the-microscope/

Well, something like this is rarely "well founded" until it is published by a media outlet. Only this time, it seems someone got a heads up that it may be published.

We will see.

[BlueintheFace]

Well, something like this is rarely "well founded" until it is published by a media outlet. Only this time, it seems someone got a heads up that it may be published.

We will see.

That would be an absolute media storm. It would be beyond shocking... and if it were to come out just before the tourney. Holy Cow.

[moonpie23]

Rumor swirling through the college sports information directors grapevine: New York Times going to drop a Calipari recruiting violations bomb before the tournament.

oh please......you have got to be rattling my cage...


first, the large, bone-in ribeye cooked bloody rare of a 32 point beatdown of my most hated foe?

and now, possibly the death-by-chocolate dessert of cal, cousins, wall and uk nation going to hell in a hand basket?


wow......if this is true, i must have died and gone to beach-front property...

[cbnaylor]

Please let it be true and if so, this should be the end of Cal!

[weezie]

Gosh! How can this be possible? Cal seems so nice and important in those Directv ads. Like a dadgummit pillar of the community, for cryin' out loud.

The reaction of the ky fans is priceless though. They must be mixing their Jack Daniels with Maalox.

[Gewebe14]

Anyone been over on their message boards? I don't know any. Would be good to hear some consternation even if nothing comes of it (this year anyway).

[sagegrouse]

I am of two minds on the rumor.

First, any major sports investigation is going to make waves. As a result, a number of people will know something is going on and maybe something about the topic and the outcome of the investigation.

Second and on the other hand, there is a HUGE market for Calipari corruption rumors, meaning the flimsiest spark of a hint would lead to a raging bonfire of speculation, independent of any truth.

I think we should wait for the story.

sagegrouse

[A-Tex Devil]

If the allegations are true, this is not unexpected, and one of the reasons I shied away from us actually getting Wall last year.

Cal doesn't shy away from kids that have surrounded themselves with "street agent" types. And frankly I wouldn't be surprised if Cal wasn't aware of specifics. But the guy has put himself in situation after situation where he recruits kids that already have agents-in-fact "masterminding" their careers. These people don't care about college basketball. They care about setting up their "client" to be in the best position to make money as soon as possible (at the risk of failing to maximize potential earnings with second contracts and endorsements).

We saw this with Corey Maggette. USC saw it with OJ Mayo. Tennessee football is dealing with it with Bryce Brown, whose "mentor" Brian Butler may single-handedly put a half dozen schools on probation before he is through.

It's a real problem in both football and basketball. Mack Brown has refused to recruit players that make them go through anyone but their parent/guardian or coach. While I don't know if it is his policy, it certainly is good practice. The street agent is a real problem. Some coaches shy away from them, others like Coach Calipari don't, at the risk of their reputation.

[Deslok]

You have to have a reputation to be able to risk one. And well, the only reputation Calipari has in that regard, he's not risking, he's confirming.

[KenTankerous]

Gosh! How can this be possible? Cal seems so nice and important in those Directv ads. Like a dadgummit pillar of the community, for cryin' out loud.

The reaction of the ky fans is priceless though. They must be mixing their Jack Daniels with Maalox.

I take mad offense at this post.

Jack Daniel's is from Tennessee. We prefer Wild Turkey or Jim Beam with our Maalox here in the bluegrass.

On point - I think we all know that Cal is greasy and plays way too fast and loose. But for him to let anything like this happen with his first recruiting class portends an arrogance and stupidity that I doubt even Cal is capable of.

And if these rumors turn out to not be true, it is more crying wolf by the scandal hungry anti-Cal media faction. They should be more nonchalant about their investigations until they actually have substantial evidence lest we start dismissing these "reports" out of hand as more of the same smokescreen.

[A-Tex Devil]

You have to have a reputation to be able to risk one. And well, the only reputation Calipari has in that regard, he's not risking, he's confirming.

Touche. I should have said career. Because if it happens again, he goes the way of Jim Harrick (except without a championship).

[77devil]

And if these rumors turn out to not be true, it is more crying wolf by the scandal hungry anti-Cal media faction.

Even if the current rumors are not true, how can you consider it crying wolf when Cals' last two college jobs resulted in vacating Final Four appearances and other sanctions? Not a coincidence me thinks.

[BD80]

... On point - I think we all know that Cal is greasy and plays way too fast and loose. But for him to let anything like this happen with his first recruiting class portends an arrogance and stupidity that I doubt even Cal is capable of. ...

He brought the nation's best recruiting class from Memphis to Kentucky. That alone should raise a red flag.

It also tells me that Ky knew what it was getting, even if it was one of those "I don't want to know the details" kinda deal.

I'm not saying that anything untoward transpired, but I do think he has the type of chutzpah that would allow him to try to bring the stellar class with him when he bolted to Ky - no matter what it took. That class of recruits is a "career making" group of players.

[mgtr]

Lets face it, we don't really know what is happening yet. We have reports which are about on a par with the National Explorer (2 Elvis sitings in Memphis!). I say we hold off on speculation until we have some actual facts.

[DukeGirl4ever]

The articles mentions:

3) None of the Tobacco Road schools surprisingly gave a serious look at Wall, though he was a local kid.

Really??? That's not the way it looked to me at all...

[Mike Corey]

Lets face it, we don't really know what is happening yet. We have reports which are about on a par with the National Explorer (2 Elvis sitings in Memphis!). I say we hold off on speculation until we have some actual facts.

I think you meant the National Enquirer. If so, you should know that it's up for the Pulitzer this year for its intrepid coverage of the John Edwards fiasco.

[UrinalCake]

What's the over/under on total number of classes Wall and Cousins have attended this semester? I'll take 3.

[moonpie23]

National Explorer (2 Elvis sitings in Memphis!). I say we hold off on speculation until we have some actual facts.

if you're referring to the national inquirer.....best investigative journalists on the planet....

( K - men in black)

[Gewebe14]

if you're referring to the national inquirer.....best investigative journalists on the planet....

( K - men in black)

Yep - the Enquirer also could have busted Tiger Woods, but he essentially bought them off with a cover story for their crappy men's fitness mag. Hopefully they ARE the "well respected media outlet."

[SharkD]

Lets face it, we don't really know what is happening yet. We have reports which are about on a par with the National Explorer (2 Elvis sitings in Memphis!). I say we hold off on speculation until we have some actual facts.

The National Enquirer, since the mid-90's, when they had their butts legally handed to them for libel and defamation, has actually been a fairly accurate source of unseemly, but true political and celebrity scandal news. They might not be high-brow, but if they run with it, it's probably true. And though they get lumped-in with the checkout-aisle tabloids, like the Weekly World News, they don't run alien/ghost/monster stories.

And, yes, they're in the running for two Pulitzers, this year.

And no, I don't read them.

[SCMatt33]

Touche. I should have said career. Because if it happens again, he goes the way of Jim Harrick (except without a championship).

We can only hope if he goes the way of Harrick that one of his assistants will leave us with a similarly hilarious "Coaching Principles and Strategies of Basketball" test a la Jim Harrick Jr. For those who might have forgotton and want a good laugh, here is an article that includes the back story and the exam itself (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?Article_ID=37432). Unfortunately, I only got an 18/20, I missed the last two (at least based on what I assume Harrick would consider correct).

[7duke4]

Kentucky candidate ad (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLpi7JOv7pQ&feature=player_embedded) - now politics revolves around the Duke-Kentucky rivalry?? :confused:

[mgtr]

This guy must be desperate to try something like that.

[7duke4]

I know! Chris Matthews was just showing it and laughing.

[Son of Mojo]

You're kidding me.......taking out some bitterness that's 18 years old (man do I feel old writing that.......)?!? Aren't we glad that we've gotten past '78 and/or '98? Geez. If that's the base of his platform I hope he gets smoked in that election--how's about finding a real issue for the people of Kentucky to back?

[KyDevilinIL]

Around here, though, it just might work.

[cruxer]

I, for one, relish the hate, and you should too. Soak it in. You only hate those you fear and respect. Note the current lack of hate for Duke football. Ahh but Coach Cut will soon have 'em making ads about that too!

Go Duke!

-c

[Mrezt]

"Just when you thought you might like Kentucky..."

I do not fall into that category :)


But like cruxer, i love the hate. It must be from being a Duke fan for so many years and being used to people hating on us. It makes it so much better when we win

[CameronBornAndBred]

When did I start liking Kentucky?

[J_C_Steel]

That's hilarious.

[weezie]

When did I start liking Kentucky?

Once again, "Yeah, CC&B is right!" Who cares about ky? If the poor Duke guy has to represent those idiots, I'm afraid that's his problem.

[78Devil]

Come on guys, that ad is hilarious! Yes, it might work, which would be an unfortunate way to pick a candidate. But at least if you vote for a candidate because of basketball affiliation, you are admitting you are shallow and don't follow the issues. Better than being manipulated to believe that the other candidate is a socialist or beats small children and dogs.

[superdave]

Maybe we'll get a chance to cut their hearts out again this year. Kentucky can burn in hell along with the tarholes.

The bitterness is just childish.

[Richard Berg]

When did I start liking Kentucky?
They have some fine BBQ, according to past threads on the subject. Works for me.

On the other hand, one of my least favorite Duke Basketball moments of all time came in Rupp Arena in 2002. We couldn't even find a decent bar to properly drown our sorrows prior to the long bus ride home. As a result, "Lexington sucks" is firmly etched into my head. Extending that hate to the rest of the state seems easy enough, BBQ or no BBQ.

[Devilsfan]

I guess Kentucky residents don't wan't want intelligent candidates. But remember they have one. That baseball player representing them on Capitol Hill, Jim Bunning is a Duke Fan.

[dyedwab]

...this dynamic is playing out in both the Dem and Rep primaries....check out this article where Jack Conway's (Duke '91) opponent's spokesperson say he is lying about picking KY over Duke in his bracket.

http://www.whas11.com/news/politics/Dems-Duke-it-out-87736187.html

It couldn't be more bizarre that Duke/KY rivalry is an issue in political races.

We all know that Duke/KY should always be about BBQ.:D

[LSanders]

Around here, though, it just might work.
__________________
Thus spake KyDevilinIL_inKyagain


IN KY again, huh?

At least you're earning your place in heaven!!

Regarding the spot ... You certainly wouldn't want to have a graduate of a world-renowned university representing you when you can have the complete opposite (That IS the candidate's point, right?) ... ;)

[soccerstud2210]

1. i have never started liking UK
2. this is hysterical

[moonpie23]

send christian over to his office.....

[jkidd31]

Trey Grayson is getting nervous because he was supposed to be the shoe in for the Republican nomination and Rand Paul has come out of nowhere. Pretty week attempt on Grayson's part to put out "Beat Duke/Vote Grayson" bumper stickers. Although that goes to show the mentality of some here in KY.

[ScreechTDX1847]

Wow. What a pathetic attempt...that will probably work.:p

[RockLobster]

What a loser. There's no Duke-UK rivalry, they're just still upset over The Shot.

[CrazieDUMB]

That's the most pathetic political ad I've ever seen. What's even more pathetic is that it might actually work.

[AZLA]

Too funny. Is basketball really more important than political one's belief in Kentucky? If so, I wonder if Louisville fans will now vote for the Duke candidate.

Sidebar -- I get the sense Kentucky fans are looking way too far ahead. If the refs actually limit traveling to less than five steps when John Wall dribbles, they are going to have their hands full against Wake / Texas, not to mention WV if they make it that far.

[Welcome2DaSlopes]

I never hated UK, but i sure didn't like them.

[dball]

Thought this was thread on "Justified". Nevermind.

[tecumseh]

How low can politics go, or maybe how silly can they get in the bluegrass state
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/03/16/march-madness-takes-hold-kentucky-politics/

[Kedsy]

http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20208

[blueprofessor]

Charles Pierce in Slate.com : "The Sleaziest Coach in a Sleazy Game".

Cal's players tune him out like "white noise".

Brutal. Why UK won't win the NC.

http://www.slate.com/id/2248019/


Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

[WillJ]

That ad is beyond pathetic. Still, rather flattering when you think about it.

[ReformedAggie]

This ad gives "personal foul" a whole new meaning. Ick.

[El_Diablo]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but it looks like Calipari's recruiting has gotten him in hot water again:

Kentucky Violated NCAA Rules (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/kentucky_violated_ncaa_rules)

[CA Cameron Crazie]

I can't say I was close to ever liking Kentucky, but this doesn't help. I never really disliked them, but I've always disliked Calipari and his ways.

[Kedsy]

I'm not sure if this has already been posted, but it looks like Calipari's recruiting has gotten him in hot water again:

Kentucky Violated NCAA Rules (http://www.theonion.com/content/video/kentucky_violated_ncaa_rules)

You can always count on the Onion for a fun take on the day's events.

[Atlanta Duke]

Basketball fossil Billy Packer was on Atlanta radio this morning and cited Coach Calipari as the coach who currently best understands the "modern game" by using the one and done player in order to "move them on to what their goal is, to be in school for one semester and play for two semesters."

By contrast, Packer said older coaches, citing Coach K as the one named example, "do not understand" and are "fighting" the one and done system, which may result in those coaches being "left behind."

These comments from Packer start at about the 9:00 minute mark of the linked audio.

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

Packer then went outside to yell at some kids to get off his lawn.

[Verga3]

Basketball fossil Billy Packer was on Atlanta radio this morning and cited Coach Calipari as the coach who currently best understands the "modern game" by using the one and done player in order to "move them on to what their goal is, to be in school for one semester and play for two semesters."

By contrast, Packer said older coaches, citing Coach K as the one named example, "do not understand" and are "fighting" the one and done system, which may result in those coaches being "left behind."

These comments from Packer start at about the 9:00 minute mark of the linked audio.

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

Packer then went outside to yell at some kids to get off his lawn.

Actually some interesting comments from Billy but when he mentions Duke, however obliquely, remember we were his dream school and we never recruited him.

[Kewlswim]

Actually some interesting comments from Billy but when he mentions Duke, however obliquely, remember we were his dream school and we never recruited him.

Hi,

Don't most people get over not being recruited by their dream schools after, say, 40-50 years? Sheesh, talk about being a bit tightly wound.

GO DUKE!

[roywhite]

Basketball fossil Billy Packer was on Atlanta radio this morning and cited Coach Calipari as the coach who currently best understands the "modern game" by using the one and done player in order to "move them on to what their goal is, to be in school for one semester and play for two semesters."

By contrast, Packer said older coaches, citing Coach K as the one named example, "do not understand" and are "fighting" the one and done system, which may result in those coaches being "left behind."

These comments from Packer start at about the 9:00 minute mark of the linked audio.

http://www.790thezone.com/instantreplay/Episodes.aspx?PID=1345

Packer then went outside to yell at some kids to get off his lawn.

Thanks for the link. I listened to some of that, including his comments about Coach K, Calipari, one-and-done players, etc.

Billy cares not one bit about the "college" in "college basketball" and shows it when he talks about the best way to "embrace and utilize" the one-and-done players so they can come in and essentially have one academic semester while they play basketball for one season.

No mention at all (that I heard) about Calipari's tactics causing previous Final Four appearances to be "vacated" at schools where he coached. And no acknowledgement of what a fine job Coach K is doing this year, and has done throughout the last decade.

Just another reason to root for Duke to out-perform UK in this year's Tournament and disprove Billy's smug observations. That would make me happy...nearly as happy as I am that we no longer have to listen to Billy providing commentary during the games.

[roywhite]

Hi,

Don't most people get over not being recruited by their dream schools after, say, 40-50 years? Sheesh, talk about being a bit tightly wound.

GO DUKE!

Well, not Billy. Even during his last few years as a commentator, he told stories about games from the 1960's or what a character Bones McKinney was, etc. Uh, Billy, that's fine, but perhaps you realize that the majority of your audience was either not alive or not following college basketball at that time? But he continued to tell the stories as if they were yesterday, so his recruitment was probably just as fresh to him.

One story that I knew we would hear from Billy a few times during each season was the UNC--Duke--1974--8 points--17 seconds---final bankshot--incredible comeback.

One of my personal goals is to outlive public mention of that lowlight in Duke basketball history. With Billy's retirement, I'm making progress.

[jkidd31]

Gosh! How can this be possible? Cal seems so nice and important in those Directv ads. Like a dadgummit pillar of the community, for cryin' out loud.

The reaction of the ky fans is priceless though. They must be mixing their Jack Daniels with Maalox.
No self repectining Kentuckian would drink Jack Daniels...It's Makers Mark and Maalox.

[weezie]

No self repectining Kentuckian would drink Jack Daniels...It's Makers Mark and Maalox.

I stand corrected.
Make mine Laoghaire.

[weezie]

Basketball fossil Billy Packer.....
then went outside to yell at some kids to get off his lawn.

Gosh, he must have been thrilled at the attention from the impressive local radio media! What a thrill to be remembered!:)

[Atlanta Duke]

Gosh, he must have been thrilled at the attention from the impressive local radio media! What a thrill to be remembered!:)

How the mighty have fallen - he had to wake up to be interviewed at 7:15 in the morning and then the radio crew (which is not exactly Mike & Mike when it comes to ratings) trashed him for being a pompous gasbag when he got off the interview

[diveonthefloor]

Back to discussing Calislimy and the Slimecats----

What happened to the rumored NY Times exclusive regarding cheating with Wall and Cousins? If the NY Times was waiting for one last confirming source, when would they run the story? Just before KY's first game in the tourney? The story would have much more impact before KY loses in the tourney.

[striker219]

I would just like to raise a glass and say hear hear! It is march, and there is not a Packer on CBS!

And the peasants rejoiced.

[GODUKEGO]

Editorial that was in todays Raleigh News & Observer:
http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2010/03/16/ncaa_fouls_on_grad_rate_commitment/

Study he is referring to:

http://www.tidesport.org/Grad%20Rates/2010_Mens_Bball_PR.pdf

They were talking about this on todays Mike & Mike on ESPN.

[mgtr]

Great article. Wonder if it will be picked up by the Lexington paper.:D

[OldPhiKap]

I don't need another reason to hate those two teams. More ammunition helps, though.

[Poincaré]

CBS keeps saying that he set a record with five straight seasons with at least 30 wins... All the wins in one of those five seasons were forfeited, right? So how's that five straight then?

[dukelifer]

CBS keeps saying that he set a record with five straight seasons with at least 30 wins... All the wins in one of those five seasons were forfeited, right? So how's that five straight then?

Just like he has never been to a final four.

[noyac]

They also showed his march record since 2005 and it did not reflect the forfeited games.

[diveonthefloor]

Just wait a few weeks....This entire season will be forfeited as well.

[bluepenguin]

Especially fried. ;)

[Vincetaylor]

It's pretty poor on the part of CBS to ignore the facts. You would think the NCAA would make sure they have their facts straight, but it's pretty obvious the NCAA probably doesn't care that much about it either. Cal continues to get a free pass.

[dukebluelemur]

CBS Online Feedback (http://www.cbs.com/info/user_services/fb_global_form.php)

NCAA Online Feedback (http://www.ncaa.com/feedback/ncaa-feedback.html)

Vitale was on sportcenter just now repeating the 5x30 win drivel.