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bluedevil
04-15-2007, 04:11 PM
There is an interesting 4/12 article being discussed on thedevilsden womens board by ESPN's womens hoops insider Michelle Voepel, who's been a good friend of Coach G's since at least 11 years ago when she took Gail's advice on a major career change. Voepel wrote on 4/6 that reporters she didn't even know kept calling her to ask her what was going on with Gail, so she may know more than anyone else in the media. She did reveal that Gail was wounded by Alleva's comments during Duke's NCAA run implying Duke "didn't care" very much about Gail.

The Durham Herald Sun wrote that Boyle, who is a phenomenal coach, shocked everyone when she turned down her alma mater Duke, and met with Alleva and Coach K as well as talking to Coach G extensively before making her decision. Coach K was made an assistant athletic director and also holds the title of special assistant to the president. IIRC, Alleva after much criticism did not head the baseball coach search. Associate AD Jacki Silar is in charge of womens athletics and brought in field hockey coach Bozman. How much will Coach K and Alleva and Silar be involved in the womens basketball search and interview process, what about with other coaching changes?


http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=2834095


"Joanne Boyle says no thanks to her alma mater, Duke...

Who does Coach K, er, Duke decide to pursue now?...

"You know people have dream schools and dream jobs … it was."
...Boyle stressed that she thinks Duke is a "great job" for somebody...

But … it's worth noting that whoever that "somebody" is obviously should know who runs the show at Duke: Coach K...

I'm not trying to be Chicken Little about what might happen now at Duke. But Duke women's basketball fans need to be in high-alert mode."

AtlDuke72
04-15-2007, 04:54 PM
[But … it's worth noting that whoever that "somebody" is obviously should know who runs the show at Duke: Coach K...
If that is true, I can't think of anybody I would rather have running the show!

Bostondevil
04-16-2007, 08:20 AM
And remember, take ANYTHING ESPN has to say about Duke and Coach K in particular with a huge grain of salt. I do not believe they are capable of being objective in their coverage of anything Duke.

NYC Duke Fan
04-16-2007, 09:42 AM
I have no idea whether in fact Coach K is running the show or not. But if he is then it is a bad idea. I cannot think of the last coach who was also the athletic director of a major college. It might have been Frank Broyles at Arkansas who was the football coach and athletic director.

I certainly hope that Coach K did not have input into Coach G leaving.

Patrick Yates
04-16-2007, 11:34 AM
I think ESPN's insinuation is that K is in charge, and that he does not have the best interests of the WBB team at heart.

I think ESPN is saying that K is intentionally running the WBB, and by extension, the FB team, into the ground for his own purposes.

I am not saying I agree with this, only that I think ESPN is saying this.

However, as with any story, even a biased one (and I was not aware of an anti-Duke bias at ESPN) one must be objective. Several questionable decision have been made by the AD's office. If the downward trend is not intentional, then the AD's office, and everyone who is involved with the decision making process, needs to be reevaluated.

Patrick Yates

Indoor66
04-16-2007, 01:32 PM
Please elaborate. What are the "Several questionable decision" to which you refer?

Tom B.
04-16-2007, 04:57 PM
I have no idea whether in fact Coach K is running the show or not. But if he is then it is a bad idea. I cannot think of the last coach who was also the athletic director of a major college. It might have been Frank Broyles at Arkansas who was the football coach and athletic director.


If I recall correctly, Jim Valvano was the AD at N.C. State for at least part of his tenure there.

dukemsu
04-16-2007, 06:24 PM
It's actually fairly common for big-name coaches, football coaches in particular, to double as AD.

Ones I remember in particular were Bowden, Schembechler, Alvarez, Paterno among others.

I think the real issue here is: how much power does K have on campus? I think the press is trying to paint it as Knight was painted at IU-as a demigod who basically ran the university, or at least its athletic pursuits. Personally, I see the media trying to paint K as more Knightish as he ages. You are starting to see the stories already-can't get out of the regionals, can't make the most of McD All-Americans, etc. Ten years ago, they were writing the same stuff about Knight (except in Knight's case, IU had major struggles even getting out of the first round). The press needs a villain, and they know RMK won't be around forever.

Maybe K's purported charm offensive (noted on the main page a few days back as part of his inventory) will help defuse this. However, once the wheels start turning on something like this, once the media (or,one of it's major outlets) chooses a target, it can be very difficult to stop. SI made getting Knight fired their virtual Mission Statement in the late 90s. Of course, Bob helped the matter along-which K wouldn't ever do in my opinion. The difference between K and his onetime mentor has always been that K has almost always been able to control himself-something his mentor could never master.

dukemsu

dukemsu

Patrick Yates
04-16-2007, 09:23 PM
Please elaborate. What are the "Several questionable decision" to which you refer?

Lacrosse Debacle, ie season cancelation and suspension of players (partially Broadhead, but the AD did not fight for them)

Football's continued celler position. Many coaches would be fired for not showing more progress than Duke had.

Coach G being allowed to leave.

Boyels, a former player and assistant coach, one of the young turks in WBB, turning down the job.

Steroid scandal in Baseball.

Are these enough?

Patrick Yates

Indoor66
04-17-2007, 07:19 AM
How can you blame Coach G on Alleva? Do you think her word have no meaning? She said that Duke offered things that met her needs and the needs of wbb. Is she lying? Why would she?

A University does not get every coach it desires. Even Duke. Boyles was not guaranteed to Duke. Leaving an existing job is not an easy thing. Look at Roy when Dean retired. He stayed at KS for a number of years.

There are things for which Alleva can be criticized. There are things beyond his control. Let's try to stay REAL, as the kids say. Pick the issues that fall within his pervue. Baseball - not good. Football - still a very real issue and not looking particularly good.

tamu88
04-17-2007, 09:13 AM
I have no idea whether in fact Coach K is running the show or not. But if he is then it is a bad idea. I cannot think of the last coach who was also the athletic director of a major college. It might have been Frank Broyles at Arkansas who was the football coach and athletic director.

I certainly hope that Coach K did not have input into Coach G leaving.

And after 50 years, look at Arkansas!

Being a basketball coach himself, Coach K might have some insite on who would be a good woman's coach, so why not have him assist in the search. I really doubt he had anything to do with Coach G leaving. Coach G works as hard at her job as Coach K does at his; Duke simply did not appreciate her.

But being Texas A&M, Class of 1988, I could never stoop so low as to go to Texas.

NYC Duke Fan
04-17-2007, 09:58 AM
And after 50 years, look at Arkansas!

Being a basketball coach himself, Coach K might have some insite on who would be a good woman's coach, so why not have him assist in the search. I really doubt he had anything to do with Coach G leaving. Coach G works as hard at her job as Coach K does at his; Duke simply did not appreciate her.

But being Texas A&M, Class of 1988, I could never stoop so low as to go to Texas.

I don't think that Coach K would have much of an insight as to who would be a good woman's coach. Recruiting women has to be much different than recruiting men. My point, and I don't think that I made it clearly, was I believe that if Coach K REALLY wanted Coach G to stay, his influence at Duke would have played a significant part in her staying. He could have supported her greatly. How about him driving a few hours to Greensboro with the men's team after their loss to VCU to cheer on the women's team?

How about emulating Bruce Pearl at Tennessee with his support of Pat Summit's team, and her support for his team.

Kewlswim
04-17-2007, 01:05 PM
Lacrosse Debacle, ie season cancelation and suspension of players (partially Broadhead, but the AD did not fight for them)

Football's continued celler position. Many coaches would be fired for not showing more progress than Duke had.

Coach G being allowed to leave.

Boyels, a former player and assistant coach, one of the young turks in WBB, turning down the job.

Steroid scandal in Baseball.

Are these enough?

Patrick Yates


Hi,

It appears that there will have to be a complete meltdown before the AD is changed. I imagine that if we didn't do as well in the Director's Cup for a number of years that might do it, but that is total conjecture. Certainly embezzlement or some sort of illegal activity would do it, but I don't think that is going to happen either. Who knows, maybe another AD would cost Duke a lot more money and the powers that be have decided that with all his flaws Alleva is worth what we pay him and what we don't have to pay someone else. Furthermore, Alleva is a really nice guy. I think he is one of those people who you want to give second, third, forth, fifth..etc. chances too.

Why do I feel semi-depressed after writing this post? :( I really wanted Coach Boyle big-time to come to Duke, but that's not it.

GO DUKE!

Patrick Yates
04-17-2007, 03:49 PM
Maybe I am being cynical, but is it just possible that Coach K just doesn't want a very successful women's program to take some of the spot light off the men's team ?

This is the point that I was trying to dance around. None of the revenue sports, ie the high visibility sports, are successful at Duke beyond Bball. (With a chance that the WBB could soon drop off)

On the other hand, our non-revenue (and Zero Profile) sports are very strong. I realize this has to do with the financial situation of the kids who play these sports, and that with little or no chance of a career professionally they seek to maximize education, but still.

Isn't it a little odd that any sport that the wide fanbase might care about, and thus reduce K's influence at Duke, is horrible (and has gotten worse since K became associate AD), while every sport that few if any alums really care about, thus are no threat to K regardless of success, is among the nation's best.

It is odd, is my only point. All revenue sports = bad, all nonrevenue sports = good.

Patrick Yates

hughgs
04-17-2007, 04:28 PM
This is the point that I was trying to dance around. None of the revenue sports, ie the high visibility sports, are successful at Duke beyond Bball. (With a chance that the WBB could soon drop off)

On the other hand, our non-revenue (and Zero Profile) sports are very strong. I realize this has to do with the financial situation of the kids who play these sports, and that with little or no chance of a career professionally they seek to maximize education, but still.

Isn't it a little odd that any sport that the wide fanbase might care about, and thus reduce K's influence at Duke, is horrible (and has gotten worse since K became associate AD), while every sport that few if any alums really care about, thus are no threat to K regardless of success, is among the nation's best.

It is odd, is my only point. All revenue sports = bad, all nonrevenue sports = good.

Patrick Yates

Our high profile sports are basketball and football. It seems that 1/2 (or even 2/3) of our high profile sports are very successful. I think you're trying to get the facts to fir your view. Unless you choose to redefine "high profile" sports to fit your view.

Kfanarmy
04-18-2007, 10:05 AM
I can understand people being bitter about her leaving, but get real.


I don't think that Coach K would have much of an insight as to who would be a good woman's coach. Recruiting women has to be much different than recruiting men. My point, and I don't think that I made it clearly, was I believe that if Coach K REALLY wanted Coach G to stay, his influence at Duke would have played a significant part in her staying. He could have supported her greatly. How about him driving a few hours to Greensboro with the men's team after their loss to VCU to cheer on the women's team?

Maybe I am being cynical, but is it just possible that Coach K just doesn't want a very successful women's program to take some of the spot light off the men's team ?

What is it that is so much more different about women's basketball than men's that Coach K wouldn't "have much insight." You are a fan but your insight is better than a men's BB coach?

I'm guessing Coach K has had enough success that he doesn't define his success on other people's failures...especially in sports he doesn't coach.

I just can't believe there is jealousy by women's BB fans of a team that is nationally ranked, and outperformed the men the past couple of years, simply because the women's coach left...negotiating a new contract with a new team while her team was trying to make it through the NCAA tournament. I don't care what anyone at Duke did....her conduct at that moment was not in the best interest of her team, it was in her own personal $$$$ best interest.

devildownunder
04-18-2007, 10:17 AM
I think ESPN's insinuation is that K is in charge, and that he does not have the best interests of the WBB team at heart.

I think ESPN is saying that K is intentionally running the WBB, and by extension, the FB team, into the ground for his own purposes.

I am not saying I agree with this, only that I think ESPN is saying this.

However, as with any story, even a biased one (and I was not aware of an anti-Duke bias at ESPN) one must be objective. Several questionable decision have been made by the AD's office. If the downward trend is not intentional, then the AD's office, and everyone who is involved with the decision making process, needs to be reevaluated.

Patrick Yates


I have seen and heard with my own two eyes coach G praise K for his support of the women's basketball program at Duke. Is there any information that has surfaced about K that would lead a reasonable person to assume that K is trying to drive women's bball into the tank?

And as for football, it was crap before K got there, it'll be crap when he leaves. Sorry folks, just the way i'tis.

Kewlswim
04-18-2007, 10:44 PM
And as for football, it was crap before K got there, it'll be crap when he leaves. Sorry folks, just the way i'tis.

Hi,

Duke football was wonderful before and can be good again. There is no reason for it to be this bad. I am not saying I think we will be playing for National Championships in a few years, but I think we can reasonably go to a bowl every other year and maybe on a yearly basis.

My goodness that cool-aid tastes good. :)

GO DUKE!

robc
04-19-2007, 09:10 AM
Let me say this unequivocally: Coach K definitely supports the women's basketball program.

killerleft
04-19-2007, 09:27 AM
Thank you, robc.

To think that Coach K would undermine any program at Duke, as much as he loves his job and the University, is not very flattering to the thinker.

NYC Duke Fan
04-20-2007, 11:20 AM
Thank you, robc.

To think that Coach K would undermine any program at Duke, as much as he loves his job and the University, is not very flattering to the thinker.

I don't think that Coach K would undermine the women's basketball program, but there is a difference between undermining and not fully supporting it. As I said in a previous post, wouldn't it have great for Coach K and the men'e team to drive down to Greensboro to cheer on the women's team. This is what I meant by support. Was he so busy that he couldn't have taken the time to do so ? I think that Coach G and the women's team would have really have appreciated the gesture. His failure to do so does send a message.

ikiru36
04-20-2007, 01:02 PM
I don't think that Coach K would undermine the women's basketball program, but there is a difference between undermining and not fully supporting it. As I said in a previous post, wouldn't it have great for Coach K and the men'e team to drive down to Greensboro to cheer on the women's team. This is what I meant by support. Was he so busy that he couldn't have taken the time to do so ? I think that Coach G and the women's team would have really have appreciated the gesture. His failure to do so does send a message.

I haven't lived in Durham for a few years, but I will say that I frequently saw Men's players at the Women's games in Cameron cheering them on. And unless someone else has better inside information, if Rob C. (who is in the know and LOVES Duke Women's Hoops) believes that Coach K "unequivocally...definitely supports" Women's Basketball at Duke then that statement overrules anyone else's mere speculation on this matter.