GT Loses Two MBB Scholarships

[gotham devil]

http://www.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=943457

[Devil07]

Indiana lost 2 as well. Kelvin Sampson truly is the gift that keeps on giving...

[CameronCrazy'11]

How is Maryland not on that list?

[FireOgilvie]

I have no idea how the APR works (it just says eligibility, retention, and graduation), but could Ohio State have lost 2 scholarships due to all of their "one-and-dones?" They have had at least 5 guys in the last 3 years who left after 1 year. That has to really hurt the APR.

[geraldsneighbor]

As long as they do well while they are enrolled then it doesn't matter. I know McRoberts and Henderson both continued to attend class for their own academic standing but also to help the team out.

[UrinalCake]

This is contrary to what I've understood in the past... I always thought that if a player leaves early, that counts against you as a "non-graduate" (although there is a six-year window to graduate, so if the player comes back and gets his degree then that's ok). Did they change the rule?

With regards to Maryland, they famously had a 0% graduation rate a couple years ago but I think (hope?) that was an anomaly. I do wonder if this will catch up to Memphis, with all of their recruitment of one-and-done'ers.

[-jk]

As I understand the APR, each player gets one point for remaining eligible, and a second for remaining on the team. So long as transfers and early departures keep going to class for the remainder of the year, they don't hit the APR too hard.

If they don't finish their degree, that's held against the graduation success rate - but that's a different measure.

Edit: Here's the official NCAA explanation (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=1422).

-jk

[roywhite]

I don't claim to know the formula or mechanics of this Academic Progress tool, but it seems like a good concept.

Some football programs got hit, including the loss of 3 scholarships at Minnesota, 3 at Ole Miss, and 8(!) at Bowling Green.

[JasonEvans]

APR does not penalize a school for a kid leaving early who was still a student in good standing when he left. So, a kid who takes the semester off before leaving and gets a bunch of incompletes or Fs will hurt your team but a kid who attends class and gets ok grades but who then declares for the draft does not hurt your team.

This is exactly as I think it should be. This may be the smartest "student athlete" enforcement technique the NCAA has ever invented.

One tweak-- if Memphis has a bunch of one-and-done kids who did not take their classes seriously, the penalty should not only affect the school but also the coach. The lost scholarships (if there were any) should follow Calipari to Kentucky, IMO.

-Jason "I need to see if I can find Memphis' score... back in a moment" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Well, I found the ACC's scores--


ACC men’s basketball

School ………………APR

1. N.C. State…………995
t-2. Duke…………….989
t-2. North Carolina ……….989
4. Clemson …………..974
5. Miami …………….964
6. Wake Forest ……….963
7. Boston College……..952
8. Virginia Tech ……..943
9. Florida State ……..933
10. Virginia …………932
11. Georgia Tech……..914
12. Maryland…………912

Note: The average national score was 933.

Interestingly, Maryland was not penalized any scholarships because no players were "ineligible." I guess this means that Maryland does a lousy job of graduating kids but does a good job of keeping kids eligible while they are still in school and that allows them to avoid penalties. All I know is that if Maryland has one kid become academically ineligible, the Terps are probably going to lose some scholarships.

Two scholarships lost off a basketball team is a big deal!

Oh, I also found the SEC list, which just sucks compared to the ACC.


School ………………APR

1. Kentucky…………..979
2. Vanderbilt…………975
3. Florida …………..950
4. Georgia …………..945
5. LSU ………………942
6. Tennessee …………924
7. Ole Miss…………..923
8. Alabama …………..922
9. Mississippi State ….913
10. South Carolina ……909
11. Auburn …………..899
12. Arkansas …………888

--Jason "I am off to look for the Memphis number again!" Evans

[JasonEvans]

Ready to be stunned?

Memphis' APR score this year was 1000. Perfect.

Should I completely reverse my view of John Calipari as a bad dude?!?!

--Jason "more likely explanation-- lots of A+ grades in Basket Weaving and PE" Evans

[Indoor66]

Ready to be stunned?

Memphis' APR score this year was 1000. Perfect.

Should I completely reverse my view of John Calipari as a bad dude?!?!

--Jason "more likely explanation-- lots of A+ grades in Basket Weaving and PE" Evans

Is it possible that he did a good job?

[miramar]

Well, I found the ACC's scores--

Oh, I also found the SEC list, which just sucks compared to the ACC.

--Jason "I am off to look for the Memphis number again!" Evans


It's always a bad sign if Kentucky is the top academic school in the conference.

[JasonEvans]

Is it possible that he did a good job?

No.

Unless you mean "good job at jobbing the system."

--Jason "I know people who know the man... he's a bad dude" Evans

[UrinalCake]

Thanks for the explanation on early departures. I disagree somewhat that motivating kids to remain in good academic standing once they've declared for the draft makes any kind of sense. They've already decided they're going to leave school. They're not going to get their degree (excluding the case of a student who plans to come back and finish later). So why maintain this farce that they are still a student? They've hired an agent, they are no longer eligible to play, yet we're going to pretend that they care about classes and furthering their education? And what motivation does the student have to continue taking classes, other than an allegence to the coach and desire to help him out? To me it seems a little hypocritical.

[roywhite]

No.

Unless you mean "good job at jobbing the system."

--Jason "I know people who know the man... he's a bad dude" Evans

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20041112&slug=chat12


Coach Cal managed to dance his way through this surprising bit of news a few years ago.

[JasonEvans]

Thanks for the explanation on early departures. I disagree somewhat that motivating kids to remain in good academic standing once they've declared for the draft makes any kind of sense. They've already decided they're going to leave school. They're not going to get their degree (excluding the case of a student who plans to come back and finish later). So why maintain this farce that they are still a student? They've hired an agent, they are no longer eligible to play, yet we're going to pretend that they care about classes and furthering their education? To me it seems a little hypocritical.

Are you suggesting that a student who gets a job offer in the middle of his senior year should also drop out of classes? There are plenty of jobs kids get that do not require a college degree. It would seem that you think getting the job is more important in the long run than finishing what you started and getting your degree. By your logic, an athlete who is a senior should not bother to finish their senior year and get their degree if they know they are going to be drafted into a pro sports league in a few months.

These are student-athletes. They should be attending school with the twin goal of maximizing their athletic and their academic careers. Just because they decide they are not going to go back to school in the fall for another year, it does not mean they are suddenly absolved of the responsibilities they took on when they started taking a class in January.

What if the class includes a group project in which the athlete's participation is essential to the success of other "normal" students in that class? What if the class includes heated discussions and debates from which other students could benefit from the contributions of the athlete?

What about an athlete making more progress toward his degree so he can go back and finish it up at a later date? Shouldn't we be encouraging that behavior?

I see no reason for a student to stop going to classes just because he knows he will not be at that school next semester. That makes no sense to me and I am glad the NCAA recognizes the value in staying in school as long as possible.

--Jason "defending the NCAA... blech!" Evans

[SupaDave]

I have no idea how the APR works (it just says eligibility, retention, and graduation), but could Ohio State have lost 2 scholarships due to all of their "one-and-dones?" They have had at least 5 guys in the last 3 years who left after 1 year. That has to really hurt the APR.

You pretty much hit the nail on the head. As a Tech grad, I've watched us lose a LOT of talent over the years due to one and dones (Crittendon, Young, Bosh, and Jack (soph). Throw in those who were having academic issues - West, Clinch, and Dickey along with some transfers and a young team and you're not graduating many folks.

This is why I like to think of Derrick Favors as the gift that keeps on giving to Coach Hewitt. Tech re-stocked this year b/c of him alone. Tech will still have more than 11 players on the squad as evidenced by this year.

Tech will still be much improved this year.

[gotham devil]

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20041112&slug=chat12


Coach Cal managed to dance his way through this surprising bit of news a few years ago.

It was a fairly clear sign that the NCAA had no serious interest in investigating its two revenue-generating sports.

[devildeac]

Well, I found the ACC's scores--



Interestingly, Maryland was not penalized any scholarships because no players were "ineligible." I guess this means that Maryland does a lousy job of graduating kids but does a good job of keeping kids eligible while they are still in school and that allows them to avoid penalties. All I know is that if Maryland has one kid become academically ineligible, the Terps are probably going to lose some scholarships.

Two scholarships lost off a basketball team is a big deal!

Oh, I also found the SEC list, which just sucks compared to the ACC.



--Jason "I am off to look for the Memphis number again!" Evans

How 'bout some FB scores, too.;) I know we did well in the state/region with a 980, IIRC, but the n&o didn't publish some of the other outta state ACC schools' scores.

[Turtleboy]

No.

Unless you mean "good job at jobbing the system."

--Jason "I know people who know the man... he's a bad dude" EvansYou know somebody who knows somebody? I thought rumor mongering was against the rules. Or is that just for the proles?

[tbyers11]

How 'bout some FB scores, too.;) I know we did well in the state/region with a 980, IIRC, but the n&o didn't publish some of the other outta state ACC schools' scores.

You can search all the APR scores for football or any sport here (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=49714). It is organized alphabetically by school.

A quick search for football:

BC 970
MD 931
VT 932
UVa 937
Clem 955
GT 957
FSU 932
Miami 977

Looks like all the ACC football teams made it above the 925 mark.

[bradjenk]

While the Rivals.com article was full of lists and data it sure would be nice to know something more like maybe ....... WHEN and HOW! Do the scholly reductions start right away? If so and you're over your allowed total, does the school have to yank a promised one? Do they have a lottery to see who gets the boot? Do they go on Survivor and do it that way? How long does the penalty last? Is it looked at again every year?

It seems like the writer would have included these answers. But of course, knowing the NCAA, maybe they don't even exist yet.

[devildeac]

You can search all the APR scores for football or any sport here (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/ncaa?ContentID=49714). It is organized alphabetically by school.

A quick search for football:

BC 970
MD 931
VT 932
UVa 937
Clem 955
GT 957
FSU 932
Miami 977

Looks like all the ACC football teams made it above the 925 mark.

Thanks. Hope we live up to our #1 ranking among the ACC FB schools as our 980 tops the conference list.;) And yes, I did review the Wake, NCSU and unc scores from today's n&o. We're #1. We're #1. :D

[SupaDave]

While the Rivals.com article was full of lists and data it sure would be nice to know something more like maybe ....... WHEN and HOW! Do the scholly reductions start right away? If so and you're over your allowed total, does the school have to yank a promised one? Do they have a lottery to see who gets the boot? Do they go on Survivor and do it that way? How long does the penalty last? Is it looked at again every year?

It seems like the writer would have included these answers. But of course, knowing the NCAA, maybe they don't even exist yet.

I believe I saw an AJC article on it. The team knew it was coming so they scaled back LAST year during the horrible season. There may be someway of negating it since last year was self-imposed 'time-served'. The article focuses mainly on UGA - of course (See? We have the same problems down here)...