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JasonEvans
04-30-2009, 12:30 AM
Did not have as many answers as the previews seem to promise.

--Jason "more later" Evans

Jarhead
04-30-2009, 12:41 AM
..., but there were some real surprises. I sure didn't expect that Widmore was Daniel's father.

JasonEvans
04-30-2009, 07:25 AM
A collection of somewhat disjointed thoughts---

- - - -
I told all of ya'll that Jughead would come back into play at some point.
- - - -

- - - -
Despite Daniel's insistence that fate and events could be changed by "us" (aka: variables), I think he is wrong. Everything they do is exactly what they are supposed to do.

Ben becomes cold and calculating Ben because Sayid shoots him and Kate and Sawyer bring him to Richard. Daniel always plays the role of the "crazy old man" talking to young Charlotte and always gets shot and killed by his mother while foolishly waving a gun around the Others' camp.

I actually think that if Daniel had been smart he would not have talked to Charlotte. He is invincible and unable to die so long as he has not yet talked to Charlotte. Because he knows he must talk to her at some point, if he can avoid it as long as possible then he gets to continue living. As soon as he talks to her, it is possible for him to die. Ahh well-- bummer because he was a cool character who did a nice job of explaining things to the audience.
- - - -

- - - -
Important detail-- we now know that Whidmore is in LA in time to get on the Ajira plane (in the huge metal crate perhaps?). In fact, if Ellie Hawking tells him the flight number, he could just buy a seat. I now think there is a strong possibility he is back on the the island.
- - - -

- - - -
I do not know why Ellie Hawking sends Daniel back to the Island, knowing that she is sending him to his death. I figure either 1) she would rather he be healed and get his mind back even if it means he must die at some point or 2) she knows he must go -- it is his "fate" -- so she ushers it along as she is supposed to do.
- - - -

- - - -
I am not sure why Desmond and Penny were even in this episode, although I guess it was so that Ellie and Whidmore could confront each other.
- - - -

- - - -
If we were a couple episodes from the conclusion of the show, Daniel's "theory" about stopping "the incident" that leads to the hatch which leads to the button not being pushed by Desmond which is what causes Oceanic 815 to crash would absolutely be the way to end everything. However, I don't think that is the case. Jack and the time-travelers are going to fail in their effort to use Jughead to stop "the Incident." I won't be at all surprised if they actually end up causing it or at least playing a role in it.

I remain dead set convinced that "the Incident" will bring our time-travelers back to the present, which will allow the show to conclude in present time next season.

--Jason "I feel a little bit like the show has slowed a bit as it gets to some key events" Evans

Pacer
04-30-2009, 07:48 AM
Given Daniel's death, I'm confused as to when the comicon-released video of Chang, with Daniel taping it and urging him on, is filmed.

In that video, Chang discusses that his source has "proven reliable." Last night, Chang didn't seem too impressed, and he certainly didn't view any of Daniel's "prophecies" come true.

Therefore, does Daniel come back to life?

BluDevilGal
04-30-2009, 08:14 AM
I do not know why Ellie Hawking sends Daniel back to the Island, knowing that she is sending him to his death. I figure either 1) she would rather he be healed and get his mind back even if it means he must die at some point or 2) she knows he must go -- it is his "fate" -- so she ushers it along as she is supposed to do.


Well, in theory, IF they are able to change things and stop the Incident, then the entire sequence of events would never have happened and so Daniel would not end up getting shot in 1977.... so by sending him back to the Island, Ellie knows that it is at least possible that the past will be changed and Daniel won't die.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
04-30-2009, 08:26 AM
There seemed to be an important reason Daniel had to go to the island. I doubt it was just to let his mother shoot him.

His vast knowledge is also seemingly extremely valuable to every party on the island. Didn't Widmore say that Faraday was his son as well (or did we already know that?)? The island also has a way of healing those it wants to. They could also decide to try and heal him the same way Ben was healed (all though this probably isn't very likely). It just seems to me that the son of Eloise and Charles would have far more of a purpose.

And have you considered the fact that maybe Kate, Sawyer, and Jack all do not want to live the life they would have had the plane not crashed? That maybe they did not like the idea of stopping the crash? Jack would be giving up his love for Kate, Kate her love for Sawyer, etc...

Fish80
04-30-2009, 09:00 AM
Maybe Daniel gets healed by the island. Maybe he stays dead. Did I hear it right - Widmore is Daniel's biological father?

mkirsh
04-30-2009, 09:06 AM
I liked the episode, I thought it tied up a few loose ends (Daniel conversation with Charlotte, Daniel at the Orchid clip from the beginning of the season, how Daniel could go from being a wreck with no memory to super-genius, Desmond and Penny still alive, etc), offered a nice twist (Whidmore being Daniel's father - does that mean his was born on the island like Miles and Charlotte?), and left a decent cliffhanger with Jack and Kate near the hostiles in the Jungle and Sawyer et al at gunpoint.


After initially watching the episode, I thought that Daniel would not be dead. I figured the island would heal him like Locke, or that the others would take him to the temple like Ben. My reasoning was:

1) The comicon video with Chang hasn't happened yet (I don't think)
2) Why would his mother spend her whole life preparing to send him back to the island just to die without impacting its fate one way or the other? Seems like a sacrifice for nothing (other than to appease fate maybe)?
3) How does she know about Desmond (remember in Desmond flashbacks she was pushing him towards the island) if she never spoke to Daniel?

But after thinking about it more, her gift to him, his journal, can solve all of the issues above (except #1, which may not be cannon anyway). The teaser for next week had Jack and Kate reading the journal, so maybe Daniel's journal plays a significant role in the island's history. Maybe Eloise sees the page that says "Desmond Hume is my constant." So all of her pushing Daniel and Desmond, Daniel's grant from Whidmore, and Eloise's sacrifice was just to get the journal to the island in 1977?


Also, last nights episode made me think of this possible ending to the series - someone makes a huge personal sacrifice (Jack, Sawyer, Locke, maybe even Ben but my money is on Jack) to change the past of the island - large purple flash - cut to scene of flight 815 landing safely in LA, with nothing ever happening. With cheesy music playing, we get to see Charlie helping Claire with her bag, Shannon smiles at Sayid from across the isle, we get to see Boone, Ecko, Libby, Anna Lucia, maybe even Locke gets a twitch in his leg, etc. Would not be my favorite ending, but don't have other theories on how they are going to wrap this up with just over one season to go, other that the St Elsewhere route which no one wants to see either.

JasonEvans
04-30-2009, 09:40 AM
Also, last nights episode made me think of this possible ending to the series - someone makes a huge personal sacrifice (Jack, Sawyer, Locke, maybe even Ben but my money is on Jack) to change the past of the island - large purple flash - cut to scene of flight 815 landing safely in LA, with nothing ever happening. With cheesy music playing, we get to see Charlie helping Claire with her bag, Shannon smiles at Sayid from across the isle, we get to see Boone, Ecko, Libby, Anna Lucia, maybe even Locke gets a twitch in his leg, etc. Would not be my favorite ending, but don't have other theories on how they are going to wrap this up with just over one season to go, other that the St Elsewhere route which no one wants to see either.

That ending would suck. It is no different from "it was all a dream" as we see Bobby in the shower.

Kate would be on her way to jail, Sawyer would be an unrepentant con-man searching for the man who killed his mother and father, Locke would be crippled and still have daddy issues. None of them would be better off.

-Jason "the resolution is accepting that you belong on the Island and living there happily" Evans

mkirsh
04-30-2009, 10:12 AM
I think very few shows that go out on their own (vs being cancelled) actually have satisfying endings - think Sopranos, Seinfeld, St. Elsewhere, West Wing (entire last season in this case), etc - with the exception of maybe Six Feet Under (fantastic finale). Expectations will be especially high for Lost since we've been told from the beginning that it was going somewhere, and no one really wants it to end.

I'm sure it's way too early to speculate on potential endings, but the other one I've been kicking around is the survivors time travel waaaay back to being the orignal inhabitants of the island and forebearers of the others, with Jack and Kate being the Adam and Eve skeletons in the cave. Alternatively, the potential St. Elsewhere version is that the entire show is in Hurley's head as he's creating a comic book about a magical island that he is funding with his lotto winnings.

I guess I'm looking for the show to end with a reason for the characters having been drawn to the island and all of the connections, coincidences, etc - whether it's fulfilling some destiny or correcting a past "wrong". Them just coming to appreciate the island and settling down there is a little too Gilligan's Island for me. Guess we'll have to wait a year to find out, but like the hoops season, I need to keep telling myself it's more about the journey than the destination.


Switching gears, check out this great clip with Lock and Chang discussing past secrets and aircraft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-zW3ObUnPA

Pacer
04-30-2009, 10:20 AM
Also, Daniel's memory loss (as revealed by Widmore saying that Daniel wouldn't remember being told that Widmore faked the 815 wreckage) gives a reason for Charlotte doing the playing card memory exercises on the beach last season. At the time we were trying to figure out if it was a memory exercise or some sort of precog ability. Turns out, it was to see if his memory was improving.

Rich
04-30-2009, 01:24 PM
I am not sure why Desmond and Penny were even in this episode, although I guess it was so that Ellie and Whidmore could confront each other.

Didn't Ellie tell Penny in the hospital that for the first time she DIDN'T know what was going to happen next? That couldn't have been just a throw away line and might be one of the most significant lines since it suggests that something or someone changed the course of events in a way that Ellie didn't predict. That the repetitious cycle of time was broken at some point. Or am I over analyzing it?

JasonEvans
04-30-2009, 02:03 PM
Didn't Ellie tell Penny in the hospital that for the first time she DIDN'T know what was going to happen next? That couldn't have been just a throw away line and might be one of the most significant lines since it suggests that something or someone changed the course of events in a way that Ellie didn't predict. That the repetitious cycle of time was broken at some point. Or am I over analyzing it?

I suspect that she did not know what was going to happen because she had reached the limit of Daniel's notebook. I am betting that the 1977 version of Ellie she gets a hold of Daniel's notebook, which would have at least sketchy details of everything that happened up until now (perhaps even including notes on Jack, Kate, Hurley, and the others getting on the Ajira plane to get back to the Island). But, she has now reached the limit of what the notebook contained so the future has become uncertain to her.

--Jason "I am betting that Ellie tells Whidmore to get on the Ajira flight" Evans

mkirsh
04-30-2009, 02:23 PM
I suspect that she did not know what was going to happen because she had reached the limit of Daniel's notebook. I am betting that the 1977 version of Ellie she gets a hold of Daniel's notebook, which would have at least sketchy details of everything that happened up until now (perhaps even including notes on Jack, Kate, Hurley, and the others getting on the Ajira plane to get back to the Island). But, she has now reached the limit of what the notebook contained so the future has become uncertain to her.

--Jason "I am betting that Ellie tells Whidmore to get on the Ajira flight" Evans

I think this is correct, and also leads to when Jack asked Ellie how she knew how to get them back to the island, all of the stuff she had - computers, the pendulum, and all of the talk about windows and vectors and such - were just fronts for "I read about Arija 312 in my slightly crazy dead son's journal in 1977"

Also I wonder if Daniel was a huge baseball fan and wrote in his journal every world series winner since 1977, and then Whidmore used it to get rich and start Whidmore Industries, Biff-style? Maybe a big hoops fan and Widmore made a killing on Nova over Gtown or Duke over UNLV? Or invented the DVD as Miles suggested?

JasonEvans
04-30-2009, 02:37 PM
I think this is correct, and also leads to when Jack asked Ellie how she knew how to get them back to the island, all of the stuff she had - computers, the pendulum, and all of the talk about windows and vectors and such - were just fronts for "I read about Arija 312 in my slightly crazy dead son's journal in 1977"

Also I wonder if Daniel was a huge baseball fan and wrote in his journal every world series winner since 1977, and then Whidmore used it to get rich and start Whidmore Industries, Biff-style? Maybe a big hoops fan and Widmore made a killing on Nova over Gtown or Duke over UNLV? Or invented the DVD as Miles suggested?

Whidmore making a mint "Biff-style" is a fun notion, but does not work.

Unless Daniel's journal makes reference to events in the past ("making this formula work is less likely than that Villanova win over Georgetown in the 1984 National Championship game"), then it contains info on some very specific time periods:

1) 1950s & other dates from the quick time-shifting early this season
2) 1974-77 when Daniel is sent back in time and works with Dharma up until the moment he is killed by his mother.
3) the time from Daniel's graduation until he is sent to the island. I am guessing this is the mid-late 1990s until 2004.

So, if Ellie (and Whidmore?) get a hold of the journal in 1977 when Daniel dies, they are somewhat clueless of precise events until Daniel starts writing in the journal in the mid-1990s. The key fact in this is that Daniel is given a huge research grant by Whidmore before he is given the journal by Ellie. So, there is no way Whidmore's fortune comes from info in Daniel's journal.

Wait... I take it back. There is a way Whidmore could use Daniel's journal to make money. Daniel may note company names or devices that he uses and this could be very useful to Whidmore from an investment standpoint. For example, if Daniel talks about buying an Apple computer with Intel chips in his journal, then it could allow Whidmore to invest in Apple and Intel very early in the incubation of those companies. Now that is a way he could make a ton of money off the info in the journal.

--Jason "knowledge of the future is a powerful thing" Evans

Rich
04-30-2009, 02:57 PM
So let me get this straight. When Ellie gave Daniel the blank journal as a gift, she already had the fully scribbled in journal from 1977. Which means both notebooks existed at the same time in the same place, although one had already been through the course of events and was written in and the other hadn't yet and was blank. Not surprising since we know that the Asian Ghost guy (what's his name?) exists on the Island as an adult and as a child.

I wonder, though, did Ellie look for that specific journal since she knew she had to give that specific journal to Daniel or, since she already knew he would have that journal, did she just assume it would get into her hands somehow? And isn't this question really just a microcosm of the entire question with the show? Whether we create our own destinies or have no control because events will happen whether we plan for them or not. In other words, events HAVE to happen because they already did happen. Whether Ellie looked for that specific journal or not, she had no option but to give it to him because she already gave it to him. Could she have given him a different journal? I don't think so since it was pre-ordained. My head hurts.

OZZIE4DUKE
04-30-2009, 02:57 PM
Whidmore making a mint "Biff-style" is a fun notion, but does not work.


--Jason "knowledge of the future is a powerful thing" Evans
You ever see the movie "Paycheck"? I really liked that movie.

Oh, to have bought Microsoft, Intel and Apple in the early 1980's, AOL in the mid 90's and sold them all in April 2000. And then bought Google when it came out and Apple again and sold it 18 months ago...

snowdenscold
04-30-2009, 03:21 PM
I feel the urge to go watch 12 Monkeys now...

JasonEvans
04-30-2009, 03:57 PM
I feel the urge to go watch 12 Monkeys now...

We may need a survey on best time-travel movies.

-Jason

DukeUsul
04-30-2009, 04:36 PM
I think very few shows that go out on their own (vs being cancelled) actually have satisfying endings - think Sopranos, Seinfeld, St. Elsewhere, West Wing (entire last season in this case), etc - with the exception of maybe Six Feet Under (fantastic finale). Expectations will be especially high for Lost since we've been told from the beginning that it was going somewhere, and no one really wants it to end.

I'm sure it's way too early to speculate on potential endings, but the other one I've been kicking around is the survivors time travel waaaay back to being the orignal inhabitants of the island and forebearers of the others, with Jack and Kate being the Adam and Eve skeletons in the cave. Alternatively, the potential St. Elsewhere version is that the entire show is in Hurley's head as he's creating a comic book about a magical island that he is funding with his lotto winnings.

I guess I'm looking for the show to end with a reason for the characters having been drawn to the island and all of the connections, coincidences, etc - whether it's fulfilling some destiny or correcting a past "wrong". Them just coming to appreciate the island and settling down there is a little too Gilligan's Island for me. Guess we'll have to wait a year to find out, but like the hoops season, I need to keep telling myself it's more about the journey than the destination.


Switching gears, check out this great clip with Lock and Chang discussing past secrets and aircraft:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-zW3ObUnPA

There have been some very good series finales. Mash and Cheers are the first to come to mind. Star Trek: The Next Generation also had an excellent finale (if that kind of thing floats your boat).

If we have any kind of finale that makes all of what we've seen not real, I'll be very ticked off.

DukeUsul
04-30-2009, 04:39 PM
Why did Eloise tell Penny that she was responsible for Desmond getting shot? What could Eloise have done that caused Ben Linus to try to take out revenge on Widmore (the "cause" for Desmond being shot)? Will we see Ellie as the cause of the animosity between Widmore and Linus?

Rich
04-30-2009, 04:50 PM
Why did Eloise tell Penny that she was responsible for Desmond getting shot? What could Eloise have done that caused Ben Linus to try to take out revenge on Widmore (the "cause" for Desmond being shot)? Will we see Ellie as the cause of the animosity between Widmore and Linus?

Wasn't it because Daniel "told" Desmond (at the hatch recalled in his dream) to find Daniel's mother, Eloise, in Los Angeles. If Des never went to LA, then Ben wouldn't have found him since the family was just floating on their boat.

DukeUsul
04-30-2009, 05:08 PM
Wasn't it because Daniel "told" Desmond (at the hatch recalled in his dream) to find Daniel's mother, Eloise, in Los Angeles. If Des never went to LA, then Ben wouldn't have found him since the family was just floating on their boat.

I suppose that could be it. But then Ellie's responsibility would be..... ? Giving birth to Daniel, who told Desmond to go to LA? The fact that Ellie happened to be in LA, where Desmond was told to go? Ellie is responsible for the fact that Daniel felt that Desmond need tell Ellie that the others need her help?

Rich
04-30-2009, 05:14 PM
I suppose that could be it. But then Ellie's responsibility would be..... ? Giving birth to Daniel, who told Desmond to go to LA? The fact that Ellie happened to be in LA, where Desmond was told to go? Ellie is responsible for the fact that Daniel felt that Desmond need tell Ellie that the others need her help?

Ellie has been somewhat responsible for every action Daniel has taken in his life (as well as the cause of his death) because she knew of those events by having the journal since 1977.

freshmanjs
04-30-2009, 05:15 PM
I suppose that could be it. But then Ellie's responsibility would be..... ? Giving birth to Daniel, who told Desmond to go to LA? The fact that Ellie happened to be in LA, where Desmond was told to go? Ellie is responsible for the fact that Daniel felt that Desmond need tell Ellie that the others need her help?

i think it is that Ellie and Widmore (working together to do whatever it is they are doing) caused ben's daughter to be killed. and this led directly to ben's revenge attempt.

DukeUsul
04-30-2009, 05:18 PM
Ellie has been somewhat responsible for every action Daniel has taken in his life (as well as the cause of his death) because she knew of those events by having the journal since 1977.

Possibly, although I think this is a bit of a tenuous "responsibility."


i think it is that Ellie and Widmore (working together to do whatever it is they are doing) caused ben's daughter to be killed. and this led directly to ben's revenge attempt.

I like this one better. More of a direct responsibility.

mkirsh
04-30-2009, 05:52 PM
Why did Eloise tell Penny that she was responsible for Desmond getting shot? What could Eloise have done that caused Ben Linus to try to take out revenge on Widmore (the "cause" for Desmond being shot)? Will we see Ellie as the cause of the animosity between Widmore and Linus?

Eloise urged Desmond to the island - she worked in the shop where Des went to buy Penny a ring, and she told him not to do it and sail the race around the world instead. I assume her appology is about Des involved at all. Presumably he would have married Penny in 2001 and they would not have been involved in any of this without Eloise.

duke23
04-30-2009, 05:53 PM
I had the following stream of thoughts, and was wondering what everyone thinks:

It would appear at first that this episode shoots down the notion of "variables". But, if so, then why would Eloise be so insistent and pushy that Daniel's life follow a certain track, when theoretically, he should just end up there regardless, because "What happened, happened"?

The simplest answer, of course, is that you CAN change the past, and Eloise needs to make sure this doesn't happen. This would explain her nudging Daniel and Desmond in certain directions.

The next question is then, why is she so dead set on the past not changing, that she's compelled to send her son to his death? Well, what if, after learning she killed her own son, she uses his journal and the island's properties to travel back in time and prevent his death, but this causes an immense catastrophe? Maybe the island is destroyed? Whatever the case, she decides the only sure way to prevent this catastrophe is to go back in time once more and make sure everything happens EXACTLY the way it happened the first time, making the sacrifice of raising her son to go to his death.

Perhaps the first time she travelled back, it was at the present time, and this is why she tells Penny "For the first time in a long time, I don't know what will happen next". This would also explain her comment of "God help us all" if the Oceanic 6 don't go back.

Anyway, something to chew on. I was a fervent "what happened, happened" believer for a while, but I think I'm changing my tune.

crimsondevil
04-30-2009, 10:43 PM
... Jack and the time-travelers are going to fail in their effort to use Jughead to stop "the Incident." I won't be at all surprised if they actually end up causing it or at least playing a role in it.

I remain dead set convinced that "the Incident" will bring our time-travelers back to the present, which will allow the show to conclude in present time next season.

I think you are right - the concept that the Losties themselves are responsible for the crash of 815 would be very fitting and Lost-esque. Disagreement over whether or not to try to use the bomb (does Kate really want 815 not to crash?) may also cause/contribute to the Incident.

One question: how does Daniel know (exactly) when the Incident will occur? From what we know (so far), he probably wouldn't.

HaveFunExpectToWin
04-30-2009, 11:12 PM
I just watched the episode tonight. Still chewing on the events that happened.


I think you are right - the concept that the Losties themselves are responsible for the crash of 815 would be very fitting and Lost-esque. Disagreement over whether or not to try to use the bomb (does Kate really want 815 not to crash?) may also cause/contribute to the Incident.

This is an interesting point. I got the distinct feeling when Daniel first mentioned that they could make it so none of this ever happened that Jack and Kate's minds were already in high gear. I can definitely see a scene where they are fighting over trying to erase the past.

JasonEvans
05-01-2009, 10:23 AM
This has nothing to do with The Variable, but I found it amusing.

Michael Emmerson (Ben Linus) was on Jimmy Fallon's show and they had him read a nursery rhyme (http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/2009/04/benjamin-linus-is-super-creepy/)-- just to prove that Ben is the most creepy person of all time.

--Jason "the result: your children will never fall asleep again" Evans

johnb
05-01-2009, 12:05 PM
Perhaps Daniel's mother wasn't always creepy. It seems little Daniel was having a normal nerdy existence until the piano scene, at which point she shut him down. If she had never wanted him to play piano, then why have a piano in the middle of the living room???

Perhaps they had a visitation similar to the one that Locke had as a child. Little Daniel might have picked out slide rule, wispy beard, and atomic bomb, and his mother was convinced to follow the group that she'd been part of and presumably abandoned (?).

By the way, how and when did they end up in suburbia?

JasonEvans
05-01-2009, 01:23 PM
Perhaps Daniel's mother wasn't always creepy. It seems little Daniel was having a normal nerdy existence until the piano scene, at which point she shut him down. If she had never wanted him to play piano, then why have a piano in the middle of the living room???

Perhaps they had a visitation similar to the one that Locke had as a child. Little Daniel might have picked out slide rule, wispy beard, and atomic bomb, and his mother was convinced to follow the group that she'd been part of and presumably abandoned (?).

By the way, how and when did they end up in suburbia?

I am sure that Whidmore was funding their existence. I am equally sure that we will get more info about the Ellie Hawking story at some point. We know why Whidmore left the Island (he was banished for having a life in the real world complete with a child). I would imagine we will someday find out why Ellie left. It is simply too big a detail for the show not to explain it.

Lost does a fabulous job of explaining stuff in the past. Recall that when Charlotte was about to die, she mumbled, "I'm not allowed to have chocolate before dinner." It seemed like a strange, random thing to say. But then, in the scene where Daniel encounters the young Charlotte and warns her never to come back to the Island, she is eating a chocolate bar and says to him, "I'm not allowed to have chocolate before dinner." In other words, the writers planted a little hint in her death scene knowing that the payoff was like a dozen episodes and several months away. Folks, that is keen storytelling!

So, I am confident we will see Ellie Hawking leave the island and take up residence in the real world.

--Jason "I bet it happens very soon, in fact-- perhaps in the season finale" Evans

JasonEvans
05-01-2009, 01:29 PM
Oooh-- one more thing I wanted to note about Mrs. Hawking.

Recall that our first encounter with her was in one of Desmond's flashbacks as the woman in the ring store who told Desmond not to marry Penny and that his destiny was to go to an island and push a button to save the world. At the time it was strange and creepy and we all assumed she was some manifestation of the Island trying to direct Desmond down a certain path. Some even felt the scene was not real, but was some figment of Desmond's scatterbrained mind as it flashed through time.

Well, I think we now have a different, far more logical explanation. That event really did happen. Ellie Hawking knew that Desmond had to go to the Island because she read about it in Daniel's time-traveling journal. Who knows how much detail of Desmond's story Daniel put into the journal? I would not be surprised though if there was enough data for Ellie to figure out how to put herself in his path and make sure that he was guided to the Island to carry out "his mission."

I also think it is very possible that Charles Whidmore knew from the journal what Desmond's fate was going to be, which is why he was so dead-set against Desmond and Penny getting married/involved. He knew Des was not a good guy for a relationship because Des was going to disappear for several years.

--Jason "I love how stuff is coming together-- but it is gonna suck if Ellie and/or Charles never get a hold of Daniel's journal ;) " Evans

johnb
05-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Was it coincidence that Penny and Desmond met in the first place, or do you think Charles (or someone) engineered it?

It makes sense that a lot could be gotten from Daniel's notebook, but it seems to contain mostly equations and diagrams. Do we think that they'd tip off interpersonal details as much as, say, the diaries that were/are kept by Ben or Claire? And do we have an idea why Widmore cared so much about the slaveship's ledger?

So if Desmond and Daniel are half siblings, as are Jack and Claire and Shannon and Boone, are we expecting other sets of siblings or as-yet-unknown parental connections?

snowdenscold
05-02-2009, 11:40 AM
So if Desmond and Daniel are half siblings, as are Jack and Claire and Shannon and Boone, are we expecting other sets of siblings or as-yet-unknown parental connections?

Minor quibble/fact-check, but Shannon and Boone were step-siblings, iirc.


Ahhh, season 1/2 goners who occasionally show up in a flashback - I wonder if we'll ever see them again?

OZZIE4DUKE
05-02-2009, 04:53 PM
Minor quibble/fact-check, but Shannon and Boone were step-siblings, iirc.


Ahhh, season 1/2 goners who occasionally show up in a flashback - I wonder if we'll ever see them again?
Whatever happened to Rose?

DukeUsul
05-02-2009, 08:35 PM
Whatever happened to Rose?

What happened to any of the survivors that were left behind besides the ones we saw flashing: Sawyer, Charlotte, Daniel, Juliet, etc?

JasonEvans
05-03-2009, 01:44 AM
What happened to any of the survivors that were left behind besides the ones we saw flashing: Sawyer, Charlotte, Daniel, Juliet, etc?

Supposedly, we will learn what has been going on with them before this season is over. I think I recall reading Damon Lindelhoff mention that in an interview.

Damon specifically said the thing he gets asked the most is, "What happened to Vincent (the dog)?" His answer is that Vincent is with the other Oceanic survivors and we will find out what happened to them before this season is done.

--Jason "I think this show is too well constructed to let something major like that just fall by the wayside" Evans

JasonEvans
05-04-2009, 01:30 PM
I am fairly sure that Desmond is going back to the Island at some point. But, at this point he wants nothing to do with it. So, how do we get him back?

"You can go check on your husband, Mrs. Hume. This nurse will watch your son."

I am betting that one of the passengers on the Ajira flight was a little boy named Charlie.

--Jason "searching for his son will send Desmond back to the Island" Evans

HaveFunExpectToWin
05-04-2009, 02:14 PM
I am fairly sure that Desmond is going back to the Island at some point. But, at this point he wants nothing to do with it. So, how do we get him back?

"You can go check on your husband, Mrs. Hume. This nurse will watch your son."

I am betting that one of the passengers on the Ajira flight was a little boy named Charlie.

--Jason "searching for his son will send Desmond back to the Island" Evans

Yeah, I noticed that too. There is no way I would leave my toddler with the nurse. Especially not after someone had tried to shoot my spouse and definitely not with some creepy woman hanging around the waiting room.

johnb
05-04-2009, 03:05 PM
that scene clanged for me as well...

i work in a hospital all day, and it wouldn't occur to us to have a nurse take time from her work to babysit.

InSpades
05-04-2009, 03:40 PM
I am fairly sure that Desmond is going back to the Island at some point. But, at this point he wants nothing to do with it. So, how do we get him back?

"You can go check on your husband, Mrs. Hume. This nurse will watch your son."

I am betting that one of the passengers on the Ajira flight was a little boy named Charlie.

--Jason "searching for his son will send Desmond back to the Island" Evans

Like others... that "nurse will watch your son" line stuck out like a sore thumb to me too. I was especially on edge seeing that Eloise and Widmore were lurking around. Those 2 aren't exactly the 2 most trustworthy individuals on the show. Though you see them outside soon thereafter so it is doubtful that they are directly involved. It certainly wouldn't come as a surprise for little Charlie not to be around when Penny comes back to the waiting room.

2535Miles
05-04-2009, 04:56 PM
Maybe Daniel gets healed by the island. Maybe he stays dead. Did I hear it right - Widmore is Daniel's biological father?
Let's not forget there's a doctor in the brush.

johnb
05-04-2009, 08:23 PM
oh--the mysterious dr who cured Benjamin (aka the smoke monster)?

come to think of it, why did Kate think that the Others in tents would be able to cure Benjamin when Dharmafolks were incapable despite a modern medical facility? That seemed odd at the time.

HaveFunExpectToWin
05-04-2009, 11:00 PM
oh--the mysterious dr who cured Benjamin (aka the smoke monster)?

come to think of it, why did Kate think that the Others in tents would be able to cure Benjamin when Dharmafolks were incapable despite a modern medical facility? That seemed odd at the time.

I think it was Juliet's idea, not Kate's. As a former Other, she may know things we don't.