High school junior to skip senior year to play in europe

[FerryFor50]

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=ArqfTskhX4LMbomBY8JW9rg5nYcB?slug=dw-tyler042209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Trend or anomaly?

[dukelifer]

http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news;_ylt=ArqfTskhX4LMbomBY8JW9rg5nYcB?slug=dw-tyler042209&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Trend or anomaly?

My understanding is that many of the Euro kids who played in the Hoops challenge were on pro teams- and they outplayed the US high school big men. So if a player sees this as a growing experience rather than making money- it makes sense- but there is a risk for sure as he may get exposed.

[roywhite]

My understanding is that many of the Euro kids who played in the Hoops challenge were on pro teams- and they outplayed the US high school big men. So if a player sees this as a growing experience rather than making money- it makes sense- but there is a risk for sure as he may get exposed.

There's probably room for improvement, and discussion, about the best methods of development for talented young players. If this works out for the young man, and his family, I guess it makes sense. Brandon Jennings, the excellent PG who graduated in 2008 and was committed to Arizona (though I'm not sure he was ever academically qualified) went to Europe, but has had some difficult times there.

The current system, such as it is, includes summer AAU teams against good competition, and for some, a transfer to prep school, esp. those that have strong basketball programs.

I'd be interested to hear some candid comments from Coach K about what he thinks of the way players are developed in Europe, for example, vs the USA.
Do we need some sort of national developmental program?

[Devil07]

I guess I can see from a basketball development standpoint how the European model may be superior. However, I wonder at what cost? Basketball can only take these kids so far. I'm no fan of the slippery slope argument, but honestly, once you go down this path where does it end? I just find something very disturbing about this quote:

“It’s significant because it shows the curiosity for the American player just refusing to accept what he’s told he has to do,” Vaccaro said. “We’re getting closer to the European reality of a professional at a young age. Basically, Jeremy Tyler is saying, ‘Why do I have to go to high school?’ "http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/sports/ncaabasketball/23prospect.html?hp

Of course it doesn't help that I feel that most scenarios with Vaccaro carry a certain stench to them, but I just am uncomfortable with the idea that he views high school as almost a burden holding kids back. It's hard not to come to the conclusion that people like Vaccaro only care about these kids to the extent that they can profit off of them. All the basketball skills in the world won't prepare a kid personally to deal with realities of being a professional athlete. Yes there are success stories of straight to the NBA guys, but there are plenty of failures too. Even one extra year of high school really can make a big difference in a kid's maturity. Maybe this is progress, but I for one hope that this doesn't become a trend.

[BD80]

Can you believe Sonny Vaccaro was involved?

[Underdog5]

Keep in mind that article doesn't say he won't finish school. Just will be home schooled. I know a few folks, including a few family members, that have opted to pull there kids out of public school to do home schooling for various reasons. I've preferred the European model for athletic development for a while and believe this is one of the reasons they've closed the gap on the US in basketball.

[BD80]

Bad week for Pitino.

[FireOgilvie]

I like this move. After watching the Nike Hoop Summit, it's pretty obvious where the big men are maximizing their talent, and it's not in the US. The US guys were totally dominated in that game by players that weighed less and weren't as athletic. High school and the AAU circuit are great for developing guards... but almost all big men play their high school games against much smaller competition, and AAU games reward athleticism more than skill.

[Billy Dat]

I think this is a trend, and one that's going to grow if the initial outcomes are positive. A lot will hinge on whether Jennings' year abroad is viewed as having vastly improved his game...and I don't see how it couldn't have. He spent the year playing games against men and practicing A LOT - these European teams have crazy practice commitments. A year dominating US-based high schoolers couldn't have done more for his game.

Last year, we chatted a bit on a similar thread about the possibilities of a community of young US-based guys forming in Europe. If that happens, watch out.

[roywhite]

I think this is a trend, and one that's going to grow if the initial outcomes are positive. A lot will hinge on whether Jennings' year abroad is viewed as having vastly improved his game...and I don't see how it couldn't have. He spent the year playing games against men and practicing A LOT - these European teams have crazy practice commitments. A year dominating US-based high schoolers couldn't have done more for his game.

Last year, we chatted a bit on a similar thread about the possibilities of a community of young US-based guys forming in Europe. If that happens, watch out.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/24/sports/basketball/24recruit.html


Going early to Europe may be a trend....or not.

[RPS]

My understanding is that many of the Euro kids who played in the Hoops challenge were on pro teams- and they outplayed the US high school big men. So if a player sees this as a growing experience rather than making money- it makes sense- but there is a risk for sure as he may get exposed.I expect it to be a trend in part because of the monetary component. In another thread (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15774) we've been discussing play-for-pay as an option for the NCAA and had referenced Tyler. I live in San Diego and have seen him play. He's very talented.

[jkidd31]

Back a few years ago there was a rumor that LeBron might skip his senior year in HS and play a year over in Europe.

[RPS]

The NYT weighs in on Tyler here (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/26/sports/basketball/26tyler.html?_r=1). I think the most interesting thing is Fran Fraschilla's admission:

"But Fraschilla added that he was certain Tyler was not going to Europe for the money. He said he could easily earn $200,000 in the United States.

"'He could pretty much get that money illegally, either via a college or an agent, willing to funnel his family the money,' Fraschilla said. 'I’m hoping this is a savvy move to really improve his game.'"

That this level of corruption exists is no great surprise. But since Fraschilla is both a prominent ESPN analyst and a former D1 head coach at Manhattan, St. John's and New Mexico, it adds credibility to the idea that the whole enterprise of college basketball exists under a cloud. I'm surprised that an ESPN talking head would be so candid though.

[JayZee]

I too was stunned at how casually Fraschilla just threw that out there. And to follow it up with the "I'm hoping this is a savvy move to really improve his game." That presumes that taking 200K illegally is a savvy financial move (hello NCAA and IRS) and that Europe is just a game improvement decision. A deeply damning comment about the US "amateur" game.

[Billy Dat]

There is an interesting pro/con argument column on the worldwide leader between Fraschilla and Dougie Gottlieb with Fraschilla arguing the pro.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4096202

I'll highlight Gottlieb's closing statement and make a comment:

"Will Tyler benefit from making basketball his life at such a young age? He'll be practicing twice a day, while learning a new language and getting used to a new culture. It could be a tremendous experience for him personally, but far too often players go overseas without taking advantage of the experience of living in a new country. They spend their time hanging out in their apartments, watching movies and living on the Internet instead of submerging in a new culture and putting the experience to good use. Thus, they may live in a country they barely know and spend their time simply chasing the "cheddar." "

No offense, but is this description that far off any typical college student?

[brevity]

A mildly interesting test case, but as with Brandon Jennings, I can't see a single year of Euro-exposure making much of a dent in a young man's built-in American basketball habits.

Wake me when an 8th grader skips high school to take a 4-year apprenticeship abroad.

[crimsonandblue]

A mildly interesting test case, but as with Brandon Jennings, I can't see a single year of Euro-exposure making much of a dent in a young man's built-in American basketball habits.

Wake me when an 8th grader skips high school to take a 4-year apprenticeship abroad.

I assume this will be two years, as he's skipping his senior year and won't be eligible for the draft under current rules until one year after he would have graduated.

[A-Tex Devil]

I just don't understand the hubbub around this other than from the "Who Moved My Cheese" "I'm afraid of change" crowd. If the kid has a good support structure, and he's as good as they say he is, he's probably smart for going this route.

No one complains when 16-17 year old US kids have gone abroad to play soccer in Europe (or even to Colorado Springs for project 2010). Tennis players are traveling the world at the age of 15. I love college basketball. Love it. But as far as player development, it has been passed by the European leagues, and even the NBA, and that's one of the main reasons (along with summer league me-first basketball) that the rest of the world caught up to the US. When US players are ages 16-20, they are in high school and college, have limited practice time and all sorts of bureaucracy -- AND they aren't paid (usually). When European players are that age, they are playing for junior club teams, and often, the big club. They are getting paid (usually), and they are practicing ALOT. From a pure player development perspective and financial perspective, it's a no brainer. If you flame out, you probably were going to flame out anyway. There are just a bunch of Stromile Swift, Ousmanne Cisse types that either didn't have the work ethic or simply weren't as good as they though they were.

That being said, it probably won't be for everyone due to the culture and the lifestyle shock. I do think this is a trend, though, and that college basketball is going to slowly devolve, talent wise, into something like college baseball or college hockey. Some very talented players will still come through, but the best of the best, for the most part, are going to go straight to a development leagues as soon as they can. That doesn't mean we can't still be fans. Attending a college baseball game is a great way to spend a Saturday afternoon, and the Frozen Four is a lot of fun. Those sports aren't irrelevant. It's just common knowledge that they don't include the most talented players in the world in that age group. I see high school/college basketball, at an interscholastic level, moving that way soon and quickly.