Could Lee Fowler be any more stupid?

[allenmurray]

Kay Yow made me an NCSU Women's basketball fan. Lee Fowler just brought that to a crashing halt.

Glance had 15 years as an assistant. She pretty much ran the program for the last two years. She kept the team emotinally put together in the face of the worst kind of tragedy. Yow herself said she wanted Glance to have the job.

Yow knew more about women's basketball than Fowler will ever hope to know. If Yow thought Glance was ready it seems a little presumptous for Fowler to think he knows better. But now we know just what Fowler actually thought of Kay Yow.

[Wander]

If Yow thought Glance was ready it seems a little presumptous for Fowler to think he knows better.

Isn't that his job?

[SupaDave]

So who got hired? Sorry, I really have no idea what goes on in Raleigh.

[diablesseblu]

Nothing that Lee Fowler does, no matter how dumb, surprises me. Maybe he's jealous of Debbie Yow's success at Maryland? ;-) I'm not a fan of hers but certainly was of Kay's (two very different women).

My impression is that he is not a positive, constructive leader and he could not give a hoot about the constituencies of any of the Wolfpack teams. Guess he just relies on their fans' innate "rabidness" for all things lupine and expects support.

There have been several notable stumbles on his watch and I have wondered how he keeps his job.

[NCSU&UNCgrad]

Considering all major universities with successful, sporting heritage, Fowler may be the worst athletic director in the country.

NCSU Men's basketball, once nationally prominent, has become impotent due to his decisions over the past 15 years.

Only two wolfpack teams played in the post-season this year.

It all starts at the top. Chancellor Oblinger needs to take an interest in the schools athletics (not just academia), and fire the bum.

[miramar]

Sounds like Western Carolina should be talking to Stephanie Glance.

[wolfpackdevil]

Considering all major universities with successful, sporting heritage, Fowler may be the worst athletic director in the country.

NCSU Men's basketball, once nationally prominent, has become impotent due to his decisions over the past 15 years.

Only two wolfpack teams played in the post-season this year.

It all starts at the top. Chancellor Oblinger needs to take an interest in the schools athletics (not just academia), and fire the bum.


Hey now, I wouldn't say that.

Fowler hired a football coach in Tom O'Brian, and that is looking very good.
The Wolfpack football team is expecting a 9-3, maybe 10-2 season this year.

And I do believe football is the most important sport to NCSU, not basketball.

[jjasper0729]

just to play devil's advocate... Bill Cowher left the Steelers a couple of years ago and everyone presumed it would be one of two assistants that got the nod to be promoted from within. The Rooney's went with an outsider that people panned at first and thought they were asanine for not promoting from within. Seems to me that turned out a-ok

[sagegrouse]

Considering all major universities with successful, sporting heritage, Fowler may be the worst athletic director in the country.

NCSU Men's basketball, once nationally prominent, has become impotent due to his decisions over the past 15 years.

Only two wolfpack teams played in the post-season this year.

It all starts at the top. Chancellor Oblinger needs to take an interest in the schools athletics (not just academia), and fire the bum.

I think the decision to hire an outside coach for women's hoops reflects a decision that the State women's program, despite the pioneering efforts of Kay Yow, is a middle-of-the-road program that was not winning much of anything. Did you want Fowler to hire a coach he thought would be mediocre?

sagegrouse

[Raleighfan]

Maybe Kellie Harper will take WBB at State to new heights...who knows? Maybe Stephanie Glance could have righted this emotionally shaky ship and led the ladies to an improved record next season...who knows? But we'll never know now that she's been unceremoniously dumped in spite of having giving it her all for the past 15 or so years, the last couple of them being under especially trying circumstances. As far as recruiting goes, I've got to think that regardless of a coach's recruiting skills, perhaps?surely? some higher-rated high school girls chose not to go to a school (State) where the head coach, legendary as she was, was in a very precarious health situation. Again, who knows? And as for offering Glance another job in the ath. dept., the time to do that was when she was told she wouldn't be hired as head coach, not now as an afterthought. It's not as if she did a lousy job as head coach; she was never given the chance to be the head coach. As I see it, there's a big difference between being "interim" HC and "the" HC. To put it mildly, I think this dismissal was poorly handled. Best of everything to Stephanie Glance and a pox on Lee Fowler!

[Indoor66]

I don't understand the angst over the State decision to go outside for a new coach. Years of service as an assistant to a coach who died after gallantly fighting a dread disease does not, IMO, create an entitlement to succeed as the head coach. State showed tremendous loyalty to Kay Yow through her struggle. I am sure there were detrimental aspects for State.

The level of success of the State program over the past few years has not been particularly outstanding. A desire to move on and change direction makes eminently good sense to me. Sentimentality is not a rational basis to make a coaching choice.

What has been will not always be, nor should it.

[RelativeWays]

^^^^Isn't that a Led Zepplin song? :D

[allenmurray]

I don't understand the angst over the State decision to go outside for a new coach. Years of service as an assistant to a coach who died after gallantly fighting a dread disease does not, IMO, create an entitlement to succeed as the head coach. State showed tremendous loyalty to Kay Yow through her struggle. I am sure there were detrimental aspects for State.

The level of success of the State program over the past few years has not been particularly outstanding. A desire to move on and change direction makes eminently good sense to me. Sentimentality is not a rational basis to make a coaching choice.


Do you really think that Fowler knows more about women's basketball in general, the needs of this particular group of women, or the needs of the incoming class than Kay Yow did? I think her opinion that Glance was ready and a good candidate should have meant something.

[Indoor66]

Do you really think that Fowler knows more about women's basketball in general, the needs of this particular group of women, or the needs of the incoming class than Kay Yow did? I think her opinion that Glance was ready and a good candidate should have meant something.

IMO the converse of your argument is equally plausible. The decision on a head coach is a long term decision, not an act of fealty to a deceased coach. As to who knows or knew more about women's basketball, I don't have the answer and I doubt that you do either. Further, I am not sure it is the primary question when dealing with personnel questions.

[MHTorringjan]

I have mixed opinions on this topic. On the one hand, I think that Lee Fowler would have done better to choose the person that the Hall of Fame coach had every confidence in the world could competently run the basketball program moving forward. It would have done a great deal for recruits to say that this coach was the hand-picked successor of one of the greats of women's college basketball.

On the other hand, I see the administration's argument at the beginning that having an open, national search might do more in the eyes of a recruit to say that they picked the best candidate that they could find out of the large number who applied.

I think it's unfair to characterize NC State as a "middle of the road" program, as some have done here. Coach Yow had issues with recruiting during her final years, very likely due to health constrictions on her part and concerns on the part of recruits that they would have to deal with the loss of their coach part-way through their college career, which would out-weigh the benefit of playing on the team.

We'll see how things go now that they have a new coach who is healthy, young, and enthusiastic. While I think that State probably could have done at least a little bit better at least on paper, I won't begrudge them the choice until the coach is given the chance and doesn't do well. Who knows, maybe she presented a very comprehensive vision for the way that she wants the program to go and she had the whole package in their private interviews that we haven't heard about. Time will tell. All I know is that I won't be cheering as much for NC State as I would be if they'd hired Glance.

[sagegrouse]

Do you really think that Fowler knows more about women's basketball in general, the needs of this particular group of women, or the needs of the incoming class than Kay Yow did? I think her opinion that Glance was ready and a good candidate should have meant something.

Everything you mention is temporal and not a serious long-term consideration. I am prepared to believe that Fowler made a lousy decision -- that's his track record. But if he felt that the State WBB program needed some changes and improvements, not only is that his prerogative as AD, it seems to me that he is right.

And BTW Kay Yow's opinion about Glance probably did mean something; it just wasn't determinative.

sagegrouse

[minns 10]

I have mixed opinions on this topic. On the one hand, I think that Lee Fowler would have done better to choose the person that the Hall of Fame coach had every confidence in the world could competently run the basketball program moving forward. It would have done a great deal for recruits to say that this coach was the hand-picked successor of one of the greats of women's college basketball.



Well Bob Knight hand picked Pat Knight to succeed him at Texas Tech, how is that working out for them? Let the AD do his job.

[brevity]

NC State hired Kellie Harper of Western Carolina. The all-important link:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=4074818


Harper compiled a 97-65 record while leading the Catamounts to two NCAA tournament bids and a pair of Southern Conference championships. N.C. State gave her a five-year contract with a base salary of $247,000.

Harper takes over one of the Atlantic Coast Conference's most traditionally successful programs, but one that has slid in recent years while nearby rivals Duke and North Carolina have become powerhouses.

I know very little of the situation, but this feels like an underwhelming hire, especially for a school that's more or less faded from national recognition.

[BD80]

Do you really think that Fowler knows more about women's basketball in general, the needs of this particular group of women, or the needs of the incoming class than Kay Yow did? I think her opinion that Glance was ready and a good candidate should have meant something.

If this were the men's team in a comparable situation, would you make the statement:


Do you really think that Fowler knows more about men's basketball in general, the needs of this particular group of men, or the needs of the incoming class than the previous coach did?

Treating the women's program as different, or women athletes as different or as having different needs would be wrong wouldn't it?

Perhaps you would have the same concerns about the current athletes on the men's team, but I wonder if your concerns arise because the athletes at issue are women - which I would call gallant, but then I have been called antiquated.

[allenmurray]

If this were the men's team in a comparable situation, would you make the statement:



Treating the women's program as different, or women athletes as different or as having different needs would be wrong wouldn't it?

Perhaps you would have the same concerns about the current athletes on the men's team, but I wonder if your concerns arise because the athletes at issue are women - which I would call gallant, but then I have been called antiquated.

Had a highly successful men's coach, who watched his team be led by an assistant during the most trying of all possible circumstances, stated publicly before his death that he thought that particular assistant coach was the best prepared person to lead the team through what would be an incredibly difficult transition, I would have expected his opinion to have carried a lot of weight as well. I would also assume that any highly successful coach probably knows more about his/her current team than does Lee Fowler.

Nice try - I am niether sexist nor gallant. I just think Fowler screwed up. Sometimes things are what they are, with no hidden agenda.

Let's look at it this way, suppose that Coach K had been in a similar situation, he knew he was dying, and he watched Johnny Dawkins pretty much lead the team for two years after having served as chief assistant for 15, and K said, "after my demise I think Dawkins should be head coach". And then the Duke AD went out and hired someone from a different program. Do you think the Duke fans would be entitled to wonder what the heck was going on, and how the AD could be so out of touch?

[Wander]

Let's look at it this way, suppose that Coach K had been in a similar situation, he knew he was dying, and he watched Johnny Dawkins pretty much lead the team for two years after having served as chief assistant for 15, and K said, "after my demise I think Dawkins should be head coach". And then the Duke AD went out and hired someone from a different program. Do you think the Duke fans would be entitled to wonder what the heck was going on, and how the AD could be so out of touch?

What if those two years ended in an NIT appearance one time and no postseason at all the other? I get that it was a difficult situation, but you can't just completely ignore the actual basketball results.

[allenmurray]

What if those two years ended in an NIT appearance one time and no postseason at all the other? I get that it was a difficult situation, but you can't just completely ignore the actual basketball results.

My gosh, you are right. I'm sure that if that had been the case Duke fans would have been just fine with the AD ignoring Coach K's advice. :rolleyes:

[-jk]

[I am so not moderating this board after K leaves. And may it be a long time coming.]

[DukeVu]

You people are So right. As a Western Carolina alumnus I wish that Fowler had just stayed away from Coach Harper. After all, she was trained by
Tennesee's winningest Coach of all times and carried an isolated mountain school that had never won anything to two straight NCAA tournaments. Why the Heck he could not leave well enough alone and just hire Yow's Assistant??

[sue71, esq]

[I am so not moderating this board after K leaves. And may it be a long time coming.]

Per Michael Corleone (wink wink):

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in.

[GrayHare]

Isn't that his job?

Let the AD do his job.

After all, no one complained about Joe Alleva's performance when he was AD at Duke... :rolleyes:

[matrix1686]

I know very little of the situation, but this feels like an underwhelming hire, especially for a school that's more or less faded from national recognition.

I am a recent Western graduate ('07) who currently attends grad school at NC State. While at Western I served as Sports Editor of the campus newspaper for three years, so I have first hand experience covering Coach Harper's teams and can honestly say that this is a great hire for the Wolfpack. I know the situation may not be the best for all parties involved, but Coach Harper is an excellent coach.

She took Western to the NCAA tourney twice. In the SoCon this is a huge deal because Chattanooga's women have dominated the conference for what seems like forever. In the SoCon, the Chattanooga women are probably like the Duke teams back in the late 90s and early '00s. They just dominant the conference, but Coach Harper was able to break through against them not once but twice. She also won the conference regular season title once as well, but got dropped by Chattanooga in the conference tourney finals.

Coach Harper has served as an assistant at Chattanooga, and won three national championships at Tennessee. NC State picked up a great hire, and I would say it won't be long before she has the Wolfpack in position to be serious contenders not only in the ACC but nationally. This is far from an underwhelming hire.

[BD80]

... this is a great hire for the Wolfpack. I know the situation may not be the best for all parties involved, but Coach Harper is an excellent coach.

She took Western to the NCAA tourney twice. In the SoCon this is a huge deal because Chattanooga's women have dominated the conference for what seems like forever. ...

Coach Harper has served as an assistant at Chattanooga, and won three national championships at Tennessee. NC State picked up a great hire, and I would say it won't be long before she has the Wolfpack in position to be serious contenders not only in the ACC but nationally. ...

Really? Hmmmm.

As a fan of Duke's women's team, I say we give Fowler a "do over."


The star tar heel recruit was given the chance to regain his eligibility by answering the question: "What is two plus two?"

When the recruit responder "Four?", there was a groan throughout the assemblage of Carolina fans, followed by the chant: "Give him another chance!"

[MHTorringjan]

Well Bob Knight hand picked Pat Knight to succeed him at Texas Tech, how is that working out for them? Let the AD do his job.

Well, that's a fair comment in some respects, but in other respects I don't know if that comparison works. NC State has much more respect as a program because of the time and effort of Kay Yow than TTU, which basically picked up Bob Knight when nobody else would as a last-grasp effort to win. There was no culture of basketball excellence at TTU before Bobby, but there is in the NC State women's program (and some would say the men's program, but that's another can of worms).

However, I agree with you that the AD's word is final and that you should give the coach a chance to see how things work out. I'm not calling for Fowler to get fired or anything like that, as I said in my other post. And I'm also not saying unconditionally that Glance would have been the better pick. I'm just saying there would have been positives for choosing Glance from a public perspective.

[MHTorringjan]

You people are So right. As a Western Carolina alumnus I wish that Fowler had just stayed away from Coach Harper. After all, she was trained by
Tennesee's winningest Coach of all times and carried an isolated mountain school that had never won anything to two straight NCAA tournaments. Why the Heck he could not leave well enough alone and just hire Yow's Assistant??

See, that's another fair point that the person Fowler hired (I shouldn't be blanking on the name, but I am, my apologies) is a Summit apprentice. There's probably a fair amount to that, as much as the hand-picked successor of Coach Yow.

[MHTorringjan]

After all, no one complained about Joe Alleva's performance when he was AD at Duke... :rolleyes:

LOL!!! Post of the day (IMO)!!

[CDu]

We can debate whether or not Harper was the right choice, but it seems like those bashing Fowler on this hire are doing so based on sentiment more than anything else. So Yow felt that her assistant was the right choice? Does that mean she's correct?

It's obviously a touchy subject given the emotions involved following Yow's death. But it's Fowler's job isn't to hire the coach, and it's not his job to simply hire the sentimental choice. He is tasked to hire the person whom he feels is best suited to head the program moving forward. I give him a lot of credit for hiring the person whom he felt was best suited rather than bowing to the sentimental choice.

Obviously, it remains to be seen if he made the right choice. It may be that he should have listened to Yow. But at least he went with his choice and not somebody else's choice. And I don't think it's fair to call him stupid without knowing much of anything about the person he hired instead.

[marinbobbyduhon]

Here is a link (that I hope works) to an article by Mechelle Voepel, a writer at ESPN with her own blog, which brings up many of the same feelings being reflected in this thread. I think it's an excellent article:

http://voepel.wordpress.com/

[arnie]

LOL!!! Post of the day (IMO)!!

Fowler should be feeling the heat, so I guess he's trying to pull a rabbit out of the hat. I went on the ACC website and found that State has not won a single ACC championship in any sport in the past two years. Compare that with Duke and Carolina! Obviously they don't compete with Duke and Carolina in men's or women's basketball and their football and baseball teams haven't finished near the top of the conference in years.

I can't recall any of their teams even advancing very far in NCAA tournaments under his regime. One would think State could emphasize something and do well in it. Even WF has recent NCAA championships in minor sports. State fans suffer through a lot and Fowler doesn't seem to get it.

[killerleft]

I'm sure Fowler knew exactly the reaction he would get for not hiring Glance. We'll know in a few years whether he was right.

I have always been a big fan of Kay Yow, but there is no denying that the women's program has been less than stellar for several years, at least. Fowler obviously judged that the program needed a new direction. Sentimentality aside, I cannot argue with his choice of Harper. She sounds like a great hire.

[Devilsfan]

I think he made a bigger mistake on his gridiron choice. All the Wolfpak members we are friendly with seem to more than agree. In that case it's more than just wins and loses. I'm so glad we have Cut at our helm.