Paulus' next career step

[BlueintheFace]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/13/packers-looking-at-duke-basketball-player/

This is either crazy huge/interesting news that is hard to believe and will make a lot of posters' day... or it belongs on the BASELESS Paulus football speculation thread and I am getting duped by a joke site.

I honestly can't tell. Does anybody know?

[johaad]

Man, I hope this is true.

[zdn_peanut]

it IS true. ProFootballTalk.com is well respected within NFL circles. It is maintained by Mike Florio, who like our own Jay Bilas, is a lawyer. He also writes for SportingNews.net so his credentials are impeccable.

This is AWESOME! Packers had a #4 for years, here is to hoping #3 can have the same success.

[BlueintheFace]

Wow, about 75% of posters on this board and myself owe a select few believers apologies for laughing at the thought of Paulus playing football again... My mistake. Looks like all the speculation WAS NOT BASELESS. Just Wow.

[geraldsneighbor]

That is awesome. Way to go Greg.

[CDu]

Wow, about 75% of posters on this board and myself owe a select few believers apologies for laughing at the thought of Paulus playing football again... My mistake. Looks like all the speculation WAS NOT BASELESS. Just Wow.

To be fair to the naysayers, the link just said he worked out for them. It doesn't say the workout went well (doesn't say the opposite either) or that he will make a team. Teams owe it to themselves to at least take a look though. For a late round pick on a team with an established starter, it might be worth stashing Paulus away for a few years.

This makes a lot more sense than the idea of Paulus transferring for one year of college too.

[rotogod00]

speculation is that since he's only 6'1/180, he's being looked at as a receiver or defensive back.

[geraldsneighbor]

speculation is that since he's only 6'1/180, he's being looked at as a receiver or defensive back.

Did he play CB in HS? I mean Brett Favre was only an inch taller so height won't be the issue with Greg. Greg has nothing to lose and I wish him the best.



I wouldn't expect him to be drafted though folks. He will be a guy that if he gets picked up it'll be going in to a mini-camp for a further look at what he has.

[Franzez]

He still provides a threat at multiple positions, hes pretty quick compared to other NFL QB's and if he can catch & throw the ball he could maybe develop into a Randle El type of guy.

[Edouble]

So how could signing with the Packers end up helping Paulus with his stated life goal of coaching basketball?

[BlueintheFace]

So how could signing with the Packers end up helping Paulus with his stated life goal of coaching basketball?

leadership? How did playing in the NFL help Reggie Love become POTUS' bodyman?

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Good luck to Greg! Only the best for him!

[Cameron]

Greg Paulus is the man. One of the best shooters -- and hopefully the best football player -- Duke University has ever produced. (Hey, he might as well go for broke on this one:)).

Good luck, kid. Kill 'em.

[Edouble]

leadership? How did playing in the NFL help Reggie Love become POTUS' bodyman?

Uh, not at all? Reggie's NFL career was pretty short-lived. In fact, he got released and then went to work for Obama. Am I missing something?

I doubt that playing in the NFL had any more to do with Reggie Love becoming a successful bodyman for Obama than playing in the NFL led Michael Vick to become the leader of a dog fighting ring. Reggie Love's character got him the job with Obama. I would think that character would have developed during his time at Duke, or even earlier. It seems like there must be some other way that Paulus could learn leadership and keep on his career trajectory a little better. Am I the only one that thinks it's an odd move to join a football team if he wants to be a basketball coach. Do you really think he' trying to latch onto an NFL team to learn "leadership" after playing for four years for Coach K? If so, he must have been asleep during his time at Duke.

[FireOgilvie]

Uh, not at all? Reggie's NFL career was pretty short-lived. In fact, he got released and then went to work for Obama. Am I missing something?

I doubt that playing in the NFL had any more to do with Reggie Love becoming a successful bodyman for Obama than playing in the NFL led Michael Vick to become the leader of a dog fighting ring. Reggie Love's character got him the job with Obama. I would think that character would have developed during his time at Duke, or even earlier. It seems like there must be some other way that Paulus could learn leadership and keep on his career trajectory a little better. Am I the only one that thinks it's an odd move to join a football team if he wants to be a basketball coach. Do you really think he' trying to latch onto an NFL team to learn "leadership" after playing for four years for Coach K? If so, he must have been asleep during his time at Duke.


It's not like Paulus will have forgotten everything about basketball if he attempts to play pro football (or does play pro football). He still has the experience of playing basketball at Duke for 4 years, plus high school, etc. If football doesn't work out, he can always play basketball in Europe or wherever. He's only 22. I thought your original question was a joke when I first read it. Why would he decline the NFL to play basketball in Europe?

[BlueintheFace]

Uh, not at all? Reggie's NFL career was pretty short-lived. In fact, he got released and then went to work for Obama. Am I missing something?

I doubt that playing in the NFL had any more to do with Reggie Love becoming a successful bodyman for Obama than playing in the NFL led Michael Vick to become the leader of a dog fighting ring. Reggie Love's character got him the job with Obama.

I think you have answered your own question, which coincidentally is the answer I was looking for to my rhetorical question regarding Reggie Love.

The NFL probably has little utility in accomplishing unrelated career goals. However, the NFL is not really any hindrance on achieving these goals (Reggie Love).

Frankly, if you have a chance to play professional sports in America, you do it. It's not going to hurt you in any way shape or form (except maybe physically).


Do you really think he' trying to latch onto an NFL team to learn "leadership" after playing for four years for Coach K? If so, he must have been asleep during his time at Duke.

"Leadership" was just a shot in the dark and had nothing to do with the second question I asked. Sorry for being unclear. Additionally... so is Paulus done learning leadership after four years at Duke? Is that how it works? I was under the impression that people can actually continue learning skills AFTER college.

[HK Dukie]

Workout does not mean drafted. It would be highly unlikely for him to be taken in the draft without getting up the learning curve and bulking up the body.

That said, Greg is razor sharp, a true leader and team player, so the there is no risk in checking him out. Hopefully other teams work him out and see what he can do and at least give him a chance. It's in their best interest.

But let's not get our hopes up too much right now, even though part of me is just wanting to jump out of my skin and proclaim him next years Matt Cassell. But thats the emotional side of me ;p Logic dictates that he still has a lot of work to do if he wants to get drafted, but teams should absolutely see what he can do. He will only get better.

[dukejim1]

Can't he play one year (his fifth) at Duke and get back in Football shape and learn what other position would give him the best chance in the pros.

[DukieBoy]

Sportscenter reported this on it's SC Right Now this morning. It caught me off guard at first, then I just laughed. Be a Vikings fan, I'm not sure what to do here. Do I root for the Packers to take GP3? Anyway, for those posters still doubting the legitimacy of this, it's official (http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-10-68/Black-and-Blue-all-over--Searching-far-and-wide.html)

[dukestheheat]

I think the cool thing about all of this is that how often do you see a former basketball player getting a workout with an NFL team?!

Not often.

This is an honor for GP and gives him distinction.

I mean, I played IM bball at Duke but had no shot whatsoever at getting any type of workout with an NFL team.

dth.

[CDu]

Can't he play one year (his fifth) at Duke and get back in Football shape and learn what other position would give him the best chance in the pros.

He could do that. But it is very unlikely that he will be ready to contribute next year (whether it be at the college level or NFL) after so much time off. If a team does pick him up, it would be based solely on long-term potential. So while it may seem counterintuitive, it probably makes more sense to see if he can stick on an NFL team's bench now rather than being a backup at Duke next year.

[AtlDuke72]

Good luck to Greg! Only the best for him!

I agree completely. He has been a class act throughout his Duke career including handling a tough senior year as well as anybody could have done it. My daughter is in his class and she says that he is as engaging and nice a guy as you could hope to meet. He is also a very good student in a difficult major. She speaks highly of the way almost all of the players handle themselves, but Greg is at the top of the list.

[formerdukeathlete]

http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/04/13/packers-looking-at-duke-basketball-player/

This is either crazy huge/interesting news that is hard to believe and will make a lot of posters' day... or it belongs on the BASELESS Paulus football speculation thread and I am getting duped by a joke site.

I honestly can't tell. Does anybody know?

Speculation about Paulus and Football was never baseless, which I tried to make clear in prior posts. Top d-1 programs were interested in Paulus for one year of eligibility.

one thing i wish, for Greg's benefit, that K had let him play Football at Duke his junior and senior years. By then, it may have been apparent that the NBA would not be in the works. Roof might have kept his job. Duke might have won a number of games. Paulus was not only an elite qb in high school; he played in the US Army All American Bowl. I am not sure any other qb in the ACC has that distinction.

Do you recall the newsobserver article written after a reporter witnessed a pick-up game of Football involving Football and Basketball players? The premise of the article was that the best quarterback in the ACC was playing point guard for Duke. I think this was before or after Paulus' sophomore year. Paulus ripped passes dead on in that pick-up game. Watzone probably recalls.

[dgoore97]

are you saying you want Roof back?

[formerdukeathlete]

are you saying you want Roof back?

no, what I am really saying is that for Greg's sake it would have been nice had he joined the Football team as a junior. Having signed a b-ball grant-in-aid, rather than a football grant, he had to wait until his junior year to do so.

Roof was a good guy, good recruiter. Would i rather have Roof today (after, hypothetically, 4 to 6 win 07 and 08 seasons with Paulus at the helm) than David Cutcliffe, probably not.

[roywhite]

He could do that. But it is very unlikely that he will be ready to contribute next year (whether it be at the college level or NFL) after so much time off. If a team does pick him up, it would be based solely on long-term potential. So while it may seem counterintuitive, it probably makes more sense to see if he can stick on an NFL team's bench now rather than being a backup at Duke next year.

Yeah, makes sense. He might even end up on a practice squad for a year or two. He's not ideal size for an NFL QB, but he's as big as Drew Brees.

Wish Greg well if this is what he chooses to do. He's certainly a guy we can root for.

[vlove]

I think the cool thing about all of this is that how often do you see a former basketball player getting a workout with an NFL team?!

Not often.

maybe somewhat surprisingly, this actually happens far more frequently than would initially seem or is reported about. NFL teams are notorious for leaving no stone unturned when it comes to looking for talent. Former Cowboys GM Tex Schramm would always seemingly take a flyer late in the draft each year on players than excelled in other sports (Carl Lewis comes to mind). The Kentucky guard on their mid-90s squads (Anthony Epps) was brought in by the Cowboys for a workout as a WR prospect, and the George Mason big man from their final four run a few years back (Jai Lewis?) got several looks from the Giants & Steelers, among others.

The most notable success story of a guy who only played bball in college & made the jump is Chargers All-Pro tight end (Antonio Gates from Kent State), but there are others out there, such as former U. of Houston forward Rodney Hannah, now a reserve with the Cowboys.

The one thing that these guys have in common with GP is that they were all highly decorated 2-sport stars in HS that elected not to play FB in college. Now this doesn't mean the Packers (or any other team) are going to part with a precious draft selection to bring in what is going to be (at best) a 3-4 year project who gets stashed on their practice squad- but it goes give a guy like GP the oportunity to show his potential & (hopefully) get a free agent contract after the draft & end up in an environement where he can knock the rust off for a couple years while on a practice squad & hopefully develop into a legitimate NFL player down the line.

[Memphis Devil]

If this works out for Greg, and I hope it does, I will definitely find a spot for him on my fantasy team. I don't care if he doesn't see the field. Having someone with his leadership and high character can only benefit the rest of my team! ;)

[gvtucker]

maybe somewhat surprisingly, this actually happens far more frequently than would initially seem or is reported about. NFL teams are notorious for leaving no stone unturned when it comes to looking for talent. Former Cowboys GM Tex Schramm would always seemingly take a flyer late in the draft each year on players than excelled in other sports (Carl Lewis comes to mind). The Kentucky guard on their mid-90s squads (Anthony Epps) was brought in by the Cowboys for a workout as a WR prospect, and the George Mason big man from their final four run a few years back (Jai Lewis?) got several looks from the Giants & Steelers, among others.

The most notable success story of a guy who only played bball in college & made the jump is Chargers All-Pro tight end (Antonio Gates from Kent State), but there are others out there, such as former U. of Houston forward Rodney Hannah, now a reserve with the Cowboys.

The one thing that these guys have in common with GP is that they were all highly decorated 2-sport stars in HS that elected not to play FB in college. Now this doesn't mean the Packers (or any other team) are going to part with a precious draft selection to bring in what is going to be (at best) a 3-4 year project who gets stashed on their practice squad- but it goes give a guy like GP the oportunity to show his potential & (hopefully) get a free agent contract after the draft & end up in an environement where he can knock the rust off for a couple years while on a practice squad & hopefully develop into a legitimate NFL player down the line.

Renaldo Nehemiah ran track at Maryland, dominating the 110 hurdles for several years, and then played WR for the 49ers for a few years. Sam Clancy was a power forward for Pitt before becoming an All Pro LB or end, I can't remember which he was. Tommie Smith, the former world record holder of the 200 m, had a very short career in the NFL. Stephen Neal was an All American wrestler before going on to play guard in the NFL. All pro cornerback Cornell Green was a college hoopster, also, and so was another Dallas Cowboy, Preston Pearson.

[formerdukeathlete]

maybe somewhat surprisingly, this actually happens far more frequently than would initially seem or is reported about. NFL teams are notorious for leaving no stone unturned when it comes to looking for talent. Former Cowboys GM Tex Schramm would always seemingly take a flyer late in the draft each year on players than excelled in other sports (Carl Lewis comes to mind). The Kentucky guard on their mid-90s squads (Anthony Epps) was brought in by the Cowboys for a workout as a WR prospect, and the George Mason big man from their final four run a few years back (Jai Lewis?) got several looks from the Giants & Steelers, among others.

The most notable success story of a guy who only played bball in college & made the jump is Chargers All-Pro tight end (Antonio Gates from Kent State), but there are others out there, such as former U. of Houston forward Rodney Hannah, now a reserve with the Cowboys.

The one thing that these guys have in common with GP is that they were all highly decorated 2-sport stars in HS that elected not to play FB in college. Now this doesn't mean the Packers (or any other team) are going to part with a precious draft selection to bring in what is going to be (at best) a 3-4 year project who gets stashed on their practice squad- but it goes give a guy like GP the oportunity to show his potential & (hopefully) get a free agent contract after the draft & end up in an environement where he can knock the rust off for a couple years while on a practice squad & hopefully develop into a legitimate NFL player down the line.

re Sam Clancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Clancy He played no football in college, in fact, not sure he played football beyond pony league / junior high. He was drafted in the 11th round of the 1982 draft. He played DE / DT for the Seahawks, Browns and Colts.

[UrinalCake]

Has he played any organized football in the last four years, other than pickup games and the like? The talent jump from high school to the NFL is astronomical, so I would think he'd be a long shot at best to hook up with a team. It's not like in the NBA where a high schooler with a lot of talent can be drafted just based on potential and given time to grow.

Also, does anyone know for sure that Coach K "prevented" him from playing football? My understanding was that he wasn't interested in playing football anymore once he got to Duke because he wanted to focus solely on basketball; but I could very well be mistaken.

This is a great story from the standpoint of a Duke fan; hope he accomplishes his dreams, whatever they may be.

[geraldsneighbor]

Has he played any organized football in the last four years, other than pickup games and the like? The talent jump from high school to the NFL is astronomical, so I would think he'd be a long shot at best to hook up with a team. It's not like in the NBA where a high schooler with a lot of talent can be drafted just based on potential and given time to grow.

Also, does anyone know for sure that Coach K "prevented" him from playing football? My understanding was that he wasn't interested in playing football anymore once he got to Duke because he wanted to focus solely on basketball; but I could very well be mistaken.

This is a great story from the standpoint of a Duke fan; hope he accomplishes his dreams, whatever they may be.

I agree that there is a huge talent difference between HS and NFL but on the other hand while Greg was injured at times at Duke, he is still considerably more fresh than guys who played in NCAA. I know it is a long shot but it is another reason to admire and respect Greg for following his dreams.

[SupaDave]

Renaldo Nehemiah ran track at Maryland, dominating the 110 hurdles for several years, and then played WR for the 49ers for a few years. Sam Clancy was a power forward for Pitt before becoming an All Pro LB or end, I can't remember which he was. Tommie Smith, the former world record holder of the 200 m, had a very short career in the NFL. Stephen Neal was an All American wrestler before going on to play guard in the NFL. All pro cornerback Cornell Green was a college hoopster, also, and so was another Dallas Cowboy, Preston Pearson.

Don't forget Willie Gault. Perhaps one of the most decorated athletes of our time...

[Festus]

The reference to Tex Schramm Dallas Cowboy GM reminded me of Pete Gent who was a decent forward for the MSU Spartans in mid-sixties. Singler sort of reminds me of Gent although Kyle is three or four inches taller. After only playing basketball at State, Gent tried out and made the Cowboy roster. I think he played a couple years on Cowboys as a wide receiver afterwich he became noted for his tell-all book.

[davekay1971]

It's just too bad he's not an athlete! :cool:

[gvtucker]

Don't forget Willie Gault. Perhaps one of the most decorated athletes of our time...

Gault played WR at Tennessee, so he wouldn't be the same kind of long shot that had zero college FB experience.. He's more similar to Bob Hayes, who was also a two sport standout athlete in college.

[roywhite]

One of the most notable FB "projects" from another sport was Carlton Haselrig, who was an NCAA heavyweight wrestling champion and didn't play college FB at all. The Steelers signed him, put him on the practice squad, and he later developed into a Pro Bowl Offensive Guard. Signed a big contract with the NY Jets, but had some substance abuse problems and couldn't stay in the league.

DeJuan Blair, LeBron James, Usain Bolt---there are a few guys around who would be intriguing FB prospects.

Good luck to Greg.

[SupaDave]

Gault played WR at Tennessee, so he wouldn't be the same kind of long shot that had zero college FB experience.. He's more similar to Bob Hayes, who was also a two sport standout athlete in college.

Dang, I was concentrating to much on his T&F career...

[sagegrouse]

Gault played WR at Tennessee, so he wouldn't be the same kind of long shot that had zero college FB experience.. He's more similar to Bob Hayes, who was also a two sport standout athlete in college.

How is Bob Hayes any different from Willie Gault? Both played football in college; both were world class track athletes. I suppose Gault was Div 1 and Bob Hayes at Fla. A&M was in a lower classification (now FCS, formerly Div 1AA, and formerly formerly who knows?)

sagegrouse
'Sorry, this must be the "grouse" part of my name coming to the fore'

[studdlee10]

Dang, I was concentrating to much on his T&F career...

What about Antonio Gates? From bball player to pro bowl tight end.

Romo and Warner played at insignificant schools. They sure as heck didn't receive a ton of "Training" there.

If greg can find a team that is willing to take him in, let him run the scout team for a couple years, then promote him up to 3rd string, etc....he might be ready in to contribute in 3-4 years. From there we'll see. He'll bet 27-28, which isn't THAT old for a QB in the NFL.

[weezie]

This will add even more suspense to the basketball banquet on 4/24.

[gvtucker]

How is Bob Hayes any different from Willie Gault? Both played football in college; both were world class track athletes. I suppose Gault was Div 1 and Bob Hayes at Fla. A&M was in a lower classification (now FCS, formerly Div 1AA, and formerly formerly who knows?)

sagegrouse
'Sorry, this must be the "grouse" part of my name coming to the fore'

Uh, that's exactly what I meant, SG. Bob Hayes is similar to Willie Gault. None of them are similar to the other examples I was giving, people who played pro football but didn't play college football.

[3rd Dukie]

no, what I am really saying is that for Greg's sake it would have been nice had he joined the Football team as a junior. Having signed a b-ball grant-in-aid, rather than a football grant, he had to wait until his junior year to do so.

Roof was a good guy, good recruiter. Would i rather have Roof today (after, hypothetically, 4 to 6 win 07 and 08 seasons with Paulus at the helm) than David Cutcliffe, probably not.

Question: Is that an NCAA rule? I thought I had heard of exceptions, but I may very well be wrong.

Thanks.

[BlueintheFace]

Front Page ESPN: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=4067162

[formerdukeathlete]

Question: Is that an NCAA rule? I thought I had heard of exceptions, but I may very well be wrong.

Thanks.

first 2 year prohibition - i'll search for the specific citation again and pm you or post it if i find it. gvtucker might have it at the tip of his fingertips. The rule is designed to prevent football teams from de facto circumvention of the 85 scholarship limit, through putting, planting a kid on a basketball scholarship, and then having them go out for football. This issue was a slight sticking point for Greg, that K wanted Greg to attend on a b-ball grant-in-aid, thereby effectively prohibiting Greg from going out for Football his first two years at Duke. I believe Greg hesitated slightly before signing with Duke. Roof was ok to let Greg attend on a Football grant, and as soon as b-ball practice started, letting Greg switch over, or, at Greg's option, continue with Football until the end of Football season, and then willing to let Greg miss Spring Practice until hoops were over for the season. This is the same deal Notre Dame and Miami offered.

Once Greg joined the Football roster, his basketball scholarship would have counted toward the 85 limit for Football - another aspect of the NCAA rules. It is just that starting out on hoops rather than Football, he had to wait until his junior year.

[dukeballer2294]

Will he be eligible for the draft or will he be a free agent?

[geraldsneighbor]

Will he be eligible for the draft or will he be a free agent?

Obviously he is able to be drafted but I'd guess it is more likely he gets picked up in the days following the draft if at all. I just can't see anyone risking a late round pick on him even though the upside could be good. Teams have nothing to lose signing him as an un-drafted FA.

[TNDukeFan]

Like to see Ty Lawson try THAT.

[BlueintheFace]

Looks Like Greg Worked out with Eron Riley for the Packers

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/04/14/paulus.ap/index.html

[geraldsneighbor]

That'd be something to tell your grand kids. "I played my college ball at Cameron Indoor, and in the pros I played at Lambeau."

[CDu]

Will he be eligible for the draft or will he be a free agent?

He will not be a free agent until after the draft (unless he gets drafted, which is unlikely). After the draft, he'll be a free agent. A team can then sign him as an undrafted free agent at that point if they so desire.

[zingit]

Man, this story is really catching on. ESPN's Page 2 has a poll (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/index) up asking what your favorite story of today is; Paulus's workout leads with 34% right now.

I really hope this workout gets him somewhere; I would hate for all this hoopla to be about nothing and just be a disappointment for him. I am a fellow senior at Duke and all the things you hear about what a nice guy he is are true.

[A-Tex Devil]

So I saw the mention of Eron Riley. How certain are we that Greg wasn't just playing the QB role for Eron's tryout. Thus he "worked out" for the Packers? Not trying to be a wet blanket or anything -- but this happens all the time. At the UT pro day either this year or last, James Brown (former QB in the '90s) played QB in the workouts. Perhaps the Duke QBs were unavailable for Eron's workout and GP was able to help out.

Obviously, if he impressed, that's a good sign. But I wonder how much of this is just GB coming to Duke to see Eron Riley and since GP stepped in to play QB, he therefore "worked out in front of Packers representatives." Certainly good PR for the school, right?

[zingit]

So I saw the mention of Eron Riley. How certain are we that Greg wasn't just playing the QB role for Eron's tryout. Thus he "worked out" for the Packers? Not trying to be a wet blanket or anything -- but this happens all the time. At the UT pro day either this year or last, James Brown (former QB in the '90s) played QB in the workouts. Perhaps the Duke QBs were unavailable for Eron's workout and GP was able to help out.

Obviously, if he impressed, that's a good sign. But I wonder how much of this is just GB coming to Duke to see Eron Riley and since GP stepped in to play QB, he therefore "worked out in front of Packers representatives." Certainly good PR for the school, right?

I had that same thought, but since the first couple links to this story (like here (http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/sports/blogs/446945)) say the story is from an "NFL source," I figured they wouldn't be spinning it that way if it weren't true. But you could be right.

[BlueintheFace]

So I saw the mention of Eron Riley. How certain are we that Greg wasn't just playing the QB role for Eron's tryout. Thus he "worked out" for the Packers? Not trying to be a wet blanket or anything -- but this happens all the time. At the UT pro day either this year or last, James Brown (former QB in the '90s) played QB in the workouts. Perhaps the Duke QBs were unavailable for Eron's workout and GP was able to help out.

Obviously, if he impressed, that's a good sign. But I wonder how much of this is just GB coming to Duke to see Eron Riley and since GP stepped in to play QB, he therefore "worked out in front of Packers representatives." Certainly good PR for the school, right?

That would seem to make sense, but the story actually makes a point to state that GREG PAULUS worked out for the packers. Duke confirmed this. I find it hard to believe that Duke would have confirmed the story if it were incorrect. I think the press must have it right.

[A-Tex Devil]

I had that same thought, but since the first couple links to this story (like here (http://www.madison.com/wsj/mad/sports/blogs/446945)) say the story is from an "NFL source," I figured they wouldn't be spinning it that way if it weren't true. But you could be right.

Again, I hope things went well and Greg was truly one of the people they were considering, but this is a big news story because of the "folly" for lack of a better term of a team working out a guy who didn't play college football (e.g Usain Bolt, the dude from George Mason a few years back, etc.)

But from that article you linked, the quotes/attributions were:

1. "the former high-school Parade all-American quarterback worked out for the Green Bay Packers "a couple of days ago" at the school's Durham, N.C., campus, an NFL source said Monday night."

Translation - Guy (could be anyone) watching workout calls his buddy who works for Packers - "I was at an NFL workout in Durham and you are never gonna guess who was playing QB throwing balls to the WR the Packers are looking at! Greg Paulus! He actually looked pretty good!" NFL Source calls guy who writes original story.

2. "Presumably, the Packers were trying to keep their interest in Paulus under the radar." Conjecture by author.

3. "Asked if coming back to football after not playing it in college was do-able, one NFL scout replied, "It's do-able, but he'd need some work.""

Translation - Reporter called his scout friend who wasn't at workout. "Could he do it?" "Sure, but it would take work."

The rest of the article consists of facts we all already knew months ago. That's why it kinda smells like some guy heard about it and ran with it, then the novelty of at all has spread through the internet like wildfire.

I hope it was a legit workout, but the more I'm reading, it sounds like Greg was just helping out some fellow Duke athletes.

[CDu]

Again, I hope things went well and Greg was truly one of the people they were considering, but this is a big news story because of the "folly" for lack of a better term of a team working out a guy who didn't play college football (e.g Usain Bolt, the dude from George Mason a few years back, etc.)

But from that article you linked, the quotes/attributions were:

1. "the former high-school Parade all-American quarterback worked out for the Green Bay Packers "a couple of days ago" at the school's Durham, N.C., campus, an NFL source said Monday night."

Translation - Guy (could be anyone) watching workout calls his buddy who works for Packers - "I was at an NFL workout in Durham and you are never gonna guess who was playing QB throwing balls to the WR the Packers are looking at! Greg Paulus! He actually looked pretty good!" NFL Source calls guy who writes original story.

2. "Presumably, the Packers were trying to keep their interest in Paulus under the radar." Conjecture by author.

3. "Asked if coming back to football after not playing it in college was do-able, one NFL scout replied, "It's do-able, but he'd need some work.""

Translation - Reporter called his scout friend who wasn't at workout. "Could he do it?" "Sure, but it would take work."

The rest of the article consists of facts we all already knew months ago. That's why it kinda smells like some guy heard about it and ran with it, then the novelty of at all has spread through the internet like wildfire.

I hope it was a legit workout, but the more I'm reading, it sounds like Greg was just helping out some fellow Duke athletes.

This is certainly a reasonable (and possible) scenario. It's also possible that the Packers simply wanted to take a look to see if they could find a kid who they could groom as a backup without having to waste a draft pick. After all, it doesn't hurt the Packers to take a look and then say "nevermind" afterwards. It's sort of like a team inviting a recently-waived player to training camp - might as well see if there's something worth the time.

But I agree that there are a number of reasons to not get too excited about the possibility that Paulus has a realistic shot in the NFL (at least not yet). The information we've heard to this point doesn't give any reason for that.

[SupaDave]

Actually the more I think about it, GP is VERY Favre like. Considering some of DukeTaylor's early comments in the 'baseless' thread I highly doubt Paulus is overly rusty. And just like ANY new QB he would have to shake off the rust.

It might be to his advantage that he's fresh, he has the ability to be a better sponge and obviously will understand playbooks.

For the NFL his lateral movement would be exceptional and right now I'd easily put him up against Chris Simms.

But back to Favre, Paulus is that kind of gutty emotional player. I could see the two sides mutually benefitting.

It would be wierd for sure to see him in a NFL uniform but then again Kyle Orton was just traded as a starter, Rex Grossman is still in the league, Leinart can't unseat a 40 year old, and there's an increasing number of mature NFL QBs and teams need new blood. Cassel's year last year was enough for a lot more teams to look at talent differently.

[BD80]

... Cassel's year last year was enough for a lot more teams to look at talent differently.

Paulus started as many games at QB in college as Cassel.

[BD80]

He was watching the Wolverines, checking it out

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9457458/Sources:-Paulus-may-play-football-at-Michigan

[BlueintheFace]

Holy crap!!!

[geraldsneighbor]

I guess I'd cheer for Michigan football? I hope things pan out for GP3. This is exciting though.

[BlueintheFace]

Paulus, according to one source, is still exploring the possibility of continuing his basketball career but was caught off-guard when a Packers scout contacted him a couple weeks ago after the Blue Devils' season ended with a loss to Villanova in the Sweet 16.

I would be too...


Sources also told FOXSports.com that Paulus, who worked out last Thursday for the Packers in Durham, N.C., has been contacted by a half-dozen NFL teams and several other college programs.

ummm wow!

[roywhite]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9457458/Sources:-Paulus-may-play-football-at-Michigan

Check this out; seems strange, but might be something to it.

[pratt '04]

Good for him! I really hope that something works out for GP.

[geraldsneighbor]

If Greg goes to Michigan my only hope is if he makes the NFL on Sunday nights Greg says, "Quarterback Greg Paulus, Duke."

[BD80]

I guess I'd cheer for Michigan football? I hope things pan out for GP3. This is exciting though.

Oh hell no!

Wellllll, wait. I suppose I could root for GP to take them to the national championship, and for them to plummet back to mediocrity. For them to owe their success to a Dukie? Priceless!

[darkblue2769]

Greg Paulus is my hero. Also, if he plays for Michigan, it will give me a reason to pay attention to college football again! I actually think he will pull off being able to play football again... somewhere. Regardless of how "rusty" he is, the story is getting enough publicity that I think something will end up happening anyways. I know it isn't quite the same situation, but if John Wall went and played football for 4 years and then said he wanted to play some basketball again, don't you think there would be some takers?

[wolfpackdevil]

He was watching the Wolverines, checking it out

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9457458/Sources:-Paulus-may-play-football-at-Michigan

Rich Rodriguez's offense is revolved around a quick-athletic QB, Pat White for example.

Michigan needs a QB and Paulus could step in and play in a building year for Michigan football.

It would be very cool watching him play on national tv for a college football team.

[Defenserules]

Played college football. Have had several friends play in the NFL or at least get a shot. I can tell you that GP faces a huge huge huge uphill battle. The difference between high school football and college football is like the difference between driving a golf cart and driving a car. The difference between high school football and NFL football is like going from driving a golf cart to driving an indy car. Unlike what many of the posters are saying, GP's biggest problem will be that he won't know how to read a playbook, won't have a clue how fast DB's can break on a ball or the types of throws a solid receiver can come down with. Timing will be a huge problem too. It would be much easier if he was a speedster or could jump out the gym, but as a QB its just going to be so so tough. I'm pulling for the guy but if he really wants to have a chance in the NFL he needs to play a year of college football. Unfortunately Duke has two guys on the team now that are light years ahead of him and he would be wasting his time on the scout team. Michigan might be a great place for him but he's a little slow to run the spread, although at his size the spread is about the only offense he is ready made for except maybe the option, which he might be really good at. Let's hope he doesn't end up at Navy.....

[G man]

Greg Paulus is my hero. Also, if he plays for Michigan, it will give me a reason to pay attention to college football again! I actually think he will pull off being able to play football again... somewhere. Regardless of how "rusty" he is, the story is getting enough publicity that I think something will end up happening anyways. I know it isn't quite the same situation, but if John Wall went and played football for 4 years and then said he wanted to play some basketball again, don't you think there would be some takers?

Good for him with all the crap he has taken over the years I hope this works out for him. Even though I am a vikes fan I would still cheer for him if he played for the pack!

[terrih]

I think this is just so cool. And geraldsneighbor, that would be classic!

Greg deserves the best.

[Edouble]

Like to see Ty Lawson try THAT.

He doesn't need to. He's a lottery pick.

[throatybeard]

I guess I'd cheer for Michigan football? I hope things pan out for GP3. This is exciting though.

Shane Battier could be starting QB for Michigan FB, with Olivia Wilde, Erin Andrews, and Danica Patrick starting at WR, and I still wouldn't root for Michigan FB.

I wish Greg Paulus well, but let's be real.

[BlueintheFace]

Shane Battier could be starting QB for Michigan FB, with Olivia Wilde, Erin Andrews, and Danica Patrick starting at WR, and I still wouldn't root for Michigan FB.

I wish Greg Paulus well, but let's be real.

What if K were the coach and Erin Andrews was forced, by NCAA rules, to only play with minimal clothing?

[throatybeard]

What if K were the coach and Erin Andrews was forced, by NCAA rules, to only play with minimal clothing?

I'd consider it, but it would depend on who the opponent was.

[formerdukeathlete]

.........

I wish Greg Paulus well, but let's be real.

Michigan is not the only d-1 BCS conference school which may or will offer Greg a scholarship and roster spot in the fall. I know of at least one other.

Greg started as QB in the US Army All American Bowl. Did any other qb currently playing in the ACC?

Someone mentioned his height. Well, he is taller than Duke's starting QB as of the moment, notwithstanding what the rosters say. 6'1" is not ideal, but there are a fair number of qbs who play or have played at this height, and in a pro style offense.

I also trust NFL scouts, offensive coordinators and head coaches in the BCS ranks know a bit about what talent Greg may have and what steps there are to get up to NFL level QB play.

Greg will have or may already have taken the Wonderlic. I suspect he scored highly, which will also help his case.

I'd like to see him play at Duke. I think he would end up starting.

I'd just like Greg to take the shot to realize the potential if he is interested. His potential as a QB is a pretty big thing to leave sitting on the table, notwithstanding what probabilities each of us might assign to this.

[NYDukie]

Nothing to lose here for Greg. We all state that recruits or college players exploring the draft should leave no stone unturned in a decision that will affect what track their lives take. In Greg's case he is doing such. It's safe to say Greg will not have a NBA career and that any coaching goals are long term and may not have to be started immediately after graduating. Whereas, any potential NFL career for a large payday must be done immediately. So checking out Michigan in order to possibly enroll there for grad school, with the potential there for a starting QB gig, at a Big 10 school with a national rep in a spread offense he is familar with would be almost be genius at this point of his college career given its current results to date.

So good luck to Greg and I really hope it works out for him as it would give me reason to check out some Big 10 football.

[RelativeWays]

Maybe Greg has worked on his throwing reps with Thad during the offseason. Its not the same as playing in the game, but it would help maintain his arm and footwork for passing. I hope he does well in whatever he chooses.

[davekay1971]

No matter what happens for GP, I'm sure he'll do well at this next step in his life and beyond. He's shown great heart, grit, and class representing Duke, and Michigan (or any other college program) would be lucky to have him.

[RepoMan]

I'd just like to pause for a minute and give FDA some props. When it comes to football, he really provides some good information and regularly offers insights that prove to be grounded in reality, notwithstanding the comments of many doubters.

[A-Tex Devil]

Now THIS makes sense. A lot of people mentioned how hard it would be to get a starting job with a decent college football team in one year with no spring practice to work from.

But Michigan.... hehe Michigan.... their QB situation is awful right now. If Greg had a shot hooking on somewhere it would be there. He may be no better than the 2 guys vying for the job at Michigan (and they have a potential stud true freshman who also won't have gone through spring practice), but the QBs at Michigan are so shaky right now. If Greg had a good summer camp, he could steal the job away in the same way a true freshman might.

Good luck!

[CDu]

Now THIS makes sense. A lot of people mentioned how hard it would be to get a starting job with a decent college football team in one year with no spring practice to work from.

But Michigan.... hehe Michigan.... their QB situation is awful right now. If Greg had a shot hooking on somewhere it would be there. He may be no better than the 2 guys vying for the job at Michigan (and they have a potential stud true freshman who also won't have gone through spring practice), but the QBs at Michigan are so shaky right now. If Greg had a good summer camp, he could steal the job away in the same way a true freshman might.

Good luck!

Yeah, if he were to play in college, it would almost have to be for a team in need of a stopgap QB and willing to take some lumps.

I really have trouble seeing Paulus be ready to compete at the college level after having sat out for four years. He'd have to adjust to the speed of the game, adjust to the physicality of the game, and he'd have to learn the playbook. That's not easy - most freshmen QB sit out a year or two to learn and get comfortable. Paulus won't have that luxury.

It wouldn't make sense to play at Duke, because he's not likely to be able to compete with Lewis, who has a big edge in experience, if not talent. But Michigan, who has a lack of experience and a lack of talent at the position, might offer him a chance. The spread would seem like a strange fit, but who knows? IF it was going to be possible for Paulus to play D-1 next year, it'd need to be at a program like Michigan which has a gaping hole at QB and wouldn't mind having a one-year stopgap.

[Edouble]

The link on the front page of DBR is reporting that the story about Michigan taking a look at Paulus is an April Fool's joke.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090415/SPORTS06/90414127/Report++Ex-Duke+PG+Paulus+may+play+football+at+U-M

[formerdukeathlete]

............
I really have trouble seeing Paulus be ready to compete at the college level after having sat out for four years. He'd have to adjust to the speed of the game, adjust to the physicality of the game, and he'd have to learn the playbook. That's not easy - most freshmen QB sit out a year or two to learn and get comfortable. Paulus won't have that luxury.

It wouldn't make sense to play at Duke, because he's not likely to be able to compete with Lewis, who has a big edge in experience, if not talent. But Michigan, who has a lack of experience and a lack of talent at the position, might offer him a chance. The spread would seem like a strange fit, but who knows? IF it was going to be possible for Paulus to play D-1 next year, it'd need to be at a program like Michigan which has a gaping hole at QB and wouldn't mind having a one-year stopgap.

a few thoughts.....

re the speed of the college game, ncaa tournament guards are about as quick as it gets....i am sure there is some transfer there. Paulus reportedly ran 4.6 40s consistently in high school. while he may not have looked lightening quick on the court, the football field is a different matter.

another aspect of speed....the playbook....to react...to audible...even to execute quickly what is called by the coaches out of the book requires a thorough knowledge as well as intelligence. Greg, Academic All American, taking non-gut courses at Duke, is probably brighter than most qbs he would compete with. Some might say his success in high school, his leadership on the field in high school was due to his bulletproof knowledge of the playbooks. I dont think learning the playbook is a problem in Greg's case.

I think you are right that Greg is considering other schools before Duke because of the issue of playing time. I think you are wrong about his ability to compete. Its probably more a matter of likelihood of playing time where he might play. A 4 year layoff and what now 10 pro scouts are calling him? Miami and Notre Dame offered as a QB, even though they knew Greg also would be playing basketball. There is raw talent there.

[SupaDave]

Played college football. Have had several friends play in the NFL or at least get a shot. I can tell you that GP faces a huge huge huge uphill battle. The difference between high school football and college football is like the difference between driving a golf cart and driving a car. The difference between high school football and NFL football is like going from driving a golf cart to driving an indy car. Unlike what many of the posters are saying, GP's biggest problem will be that he won't know how to read a playbook, won't have a clue how fast DB's can break on a ball or the types of throws a solid receiver can come down with. Timing will be a huge problem too. It would be much easier if he was a speedster or could jump out the gym, but as a QB its just going to be so so tough. I'm pulling for the guy but if he really wants to have a chance in the NFL he needs to play a year of college football. Unfortunately Duke has two guys on the team now that are light years ahead of him and he would be wasting his time on the scout team. Michigan might be a great place for him but he's a little slow to run the spread, although at his size the spread is about the only offense he is ready made for except maybe the option, which he might be really good at. Let's hope he doesn't end up at Navy.....

I can't agree with the fact that's he's not a speedster. A basketball player on a football field would be very fast indeed. His lateral speed would be up there with players like David Garrard but he would lack the strength to shed defenders at this moment (but was Favre really that strong? Or Jeff Garcia for that matter).

Besides once a QB gets comfortable in a system he only needs to execute fast - not BE fast...

Don't know why you think he wouldn't be able to read a playbook. Do you think Coach K draws up plays in the sand? The plays may look different but the principle is the same.

And I like the car analogy but it's not necessarily the same. As a passer he will not have a real memory of DB speed so he would get a chance to adjust to that Indy car without having the memory of the limitations of a regular car. Therefore the adjustment takes place much faster.

As a conditioned athlete he'd really just have to get back into a football state of mind.

[Memphis Devil]

If Greg goes to Michigan my only hope is if he makes the NFL on Sunday nights Greg says, "Quarterback Greg Paulus, Duke."

He says, "Greg Paulus, Point Guard, Duke!"


As far as learning the offense or being able to read a playbook is concerned, you don't throw for almost 12,000 yds and over 150 TD's in high school drawing plays in the sand. While certainly not as intricate as college or certainly even the NFL, I would venture a guess that the playbook Greg had in high school was quite involved.

I love every bit of this. Greg deserves nothing but the best and I hope he makes the most of this situation where ever it may lead.

[formerdukeathlete]

The link on the front page of DBR is reporting that the story about Michigan taking a look at Paulus is an April Fool's joke.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090415/SPORTS06/90414127/Report++Ex-Duke+PG+Paulus+may+play+football+at+U-M

that is probably a joke about a joke.

espn has the story, updated today

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=4067162

[JasonEvans]

The link on the front page of DBR is reporting that the story about Michigan taking a look at Paulus is an April Fool's joke.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090415/SPORTS06/90414127/Report++Ex-Duke+PG+Paulus+may+play+football+at+U-M

The Free Press has updated their article. They now say this is not an April Fool's joke. It is a true story.

The fact that the story was reported on April 14th, not April 1st, should be the first big hint that it is not an April Fool's joke.

--Jason "Paulus handled this past year at Duke with the utmost class-- I hope he has a big future in football!" Evans

[BD80]

Michigan would be smart to bring Paulus onboard, even if he never plays a down. Greg proved that he is the ultimate team guy. He would throw himself entirely into preparing to be quarterback, and would be a great example for the other quartebacks on the team. Greg was a pupil for four years under the greatest college coach in sports today, and would be able to bring that knowledge and leadership to the Wolverines.

Greg would get a chance to experience college football on the grandest of stages A graduate degree from Michigan. National exposure. And the chance to experience college coaching from Dick Rod. Not that I think he is a good coach, but it is another coaching style and something to learn from - good or bad. There are some good rivalries in the Big 11, UM/MSU and UM/OSU, some good places to play (they play at NDame and Penn State). There is a lot of things he could learn about coaching, training and logistics from a year at Michigan.

AJ Andande just said on ESPN First Take: "Did you ever imagine there would be a quarterback good enough to play for Michigan but not good enough to play at Duke?" Snort.

[allenmurray]

I wonder if he could be on the football team until bowl time, then a graduate assistant on the basketball team for the remainder of the basketball season. Talk about maximizing opportunities!

[Cdog923]

So, I'm a huge Nebraska football fan. Born and raised in Nebraska....basically, the 5 months out of the year there's no Duke Basketball, it's Go Big Red. Our QB situation is shaky....our leading candidates are a Junior who's thrown less than 5 game passes, a RS Freshman who's getting ACL surgery this week, a Jr. LB turned QB (who played the position in HS) a true freshman (albeit, who looks VERY promising) here early for Spring Ball, and an Athlete from Cali who was originally recruited for Safety (although he was the California State player of the year this past year). Given that roster, I think at least talking to Greg would make sense...he takes up 1 scholarship for 1 year, and he provides depth. Plus, I could wear my #3 Duke Jersey to football games next year. Any thoughts?

[hq2]

Hey, it's worth a try. He's got nothing to lose, (except maybe injuries) since he isn't going to play pro B-Ball anyway. People forget that he was, in fact, national high school football player of the year, the same way Shavlik Randolph was rated the best high school basketball player as a junior. Neither Paulus nor Shavlik have forgotten that. I was actually surprised he didn't transfer this year when he lost his starting spot to Nolan Smith (could he have? don't remember the eligibility requirements) when he still could have played football two more years in college. And remember, even if he doesn't get ready for the pros in one year, he could play arena league (per Kurt Warner) and get picked up eventually. Good luck Greg!

[MChambers]

re Sam Clancy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam_Clancy He played no football in college, in fact, not sure he played football beyond pony league / junior high. He was drafted in the 11th round of the 1982 draft. He played DE / DT for the Seahawks, Browns and Colts.

Some of us would prefer to forget Clancy, due to a play he made in 1979 in Cameron. Stole a pass to Gminski and went the length of the floor to beat Duke. Sort of a Dejuan Blair kind of player.

[formerdukeathlete]

So, I'm a huge Nebraska football fan. Born and raised in Nebraska....basically, the 5 months out of the year there's no Duke Basketball, it's Go Big Red. Our QB situation is shaky....our leading candidates are a Junior who's thrown less than 5 game passes, a RS Freshman who's getting ACL surgery this week, a Jr. LB turned QB (who played the position in HS) a true freshman (albeit, who looks VERY promising) here early for Spring Ball, and an Athlete from Cali who was originally recruited for Safety (although he was the California State player of the year this past year). Given that roster, I think at least talking to Greg would make sense...he takes up 1 scholarship for 1 year, and he provides depth. Plus, I could wear my #3 Duke Jersey to football games next year. Any thoughts?

I understand Nebraska may be interested. Pitt is, and may offer the Jamie Dixon basketball grad assistant route mentioned by Allen Murray after Football. Whether at Michigan, Pitt, Nebraska, somewhere else, that would presume Greg is not prepping for NFL tryouts, etc. Michigan has top-rated law and business schools. If Greg decides that Duke would be his best option, given the affinity for the school, etc., I think we owe him the shot. I wonder though if Cut's system is best suited for his spread to pass offense experience. This would mean we could redshirt Schroeder.

[InSpades]

Paulus to play WR at Duke?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4070344

I'd love to see Paulus get a shot to play QB at Duke.

Edit. Not that I want to see Thad lose his starting job, he certainly deserves it. It would just be awesome to see Paulus play QB for us too.

[Bluedog]

Paulus to play WR at Duke?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4070344

I'd love to see Paulus get a shot to play QB at Duke.

Edit. Not that I want to see Thad lose his starting job, he certainly deserves it. It would just be awesome to see Paulus play QB for us too.

Uhh, not gonna happen (playing QB at Duke, that is). Zero percent chance. Even Cutcliffe said so. As crazy as it sounds, it's more likely for Greg to play QB at Michigan than Duke. We already have two good options at QB.

[formerdukeathlete]

Paulus to play WR at Duke?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4070344

I'd love to see Paulus get a shot to play QB at Duke.

I hope Duke and Greg consider carefully how a tryout at Duke would affect Greg's options. If he puts on a Duke uniform and joins spring practice, and yet still wants to play qb (which most folks believe is the case), he will want to be sure that this does not affect his ability to join another bowl division program in the Fall.

[JasonEvans]

What would it take for the Paulus stories to get any more crazy? Would Brittney Spears have to show up or what?!?!

The dude has gotten more press and attention in the past 48 hours than he did during his entire senior season of basketball.

--Jason "this is awesome!! I just hope it works out for him" Evans

[CDu]

I think you are right that Greg is considering other schools before Duke because of the issue of playing time. I think you are wrong about his ability to compete. Its probably more a matter of likelihood of playing time where he might play. A 4 year layoff and what now 10 pro scouts are calling him? Miami and Notre Dame offered as a QB, even though they knew Greg also would be playing basketball. There is raw talent there.

I have two problems with your logic, especially regarding the NFL scouts.

First, there is no guarantee that the scouts will ultimately have interest. They may just be doing due diligence. There is minimal cost in them taking a look and then saying nevermind.

Second, even if they have interest, there no going to be no teams that have interest in him next year. He would obviously be a huge project longterm.

So given those facts, I don't see why you reference NFL scouts calling as being any real evidence that Paulus can compete in college next year.

With regard to Michigan, we don't even know how Interested they are either. As I said before, I will be shocked if a guy who hasn't played the sport in 4 years (and has never seen the speed of the college game) will be ready to compete next year.

[zingit]

Paulus to play WR at Duke?

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4070344

I'd love to see Paulus get a shot to play QB at Duke.

Edit. Not that I want to see Thad lose his starting job, he certainly deserves it. It would just be awesome to see Paulus play QB for us too.

Weird, a Chronicle article today (http://media.www.dukechronicle.com/media/storage/paper884/news/2009/04/15/MBasketball/Paulus.Works.Out.For.Packers-3710864.shtml) included a quote from the Duke SID saying Greg wouldn't play football at Duke. That could be just a miscommunication though, or Cutcliffe changed his mind and decided to give him a tryout even if it's unlikely he'll play here.

[shadowfax336]

The one thing that can be said to all those who wonder how he'll adjust to the speed of the college game is that its not like Greg's spent the last 4 years playing Badminton with a bunch of senior citizens. He's been playing bball with NBA level athletes. I know the games are obviously very different, but he's certainly used to playing sports with people who are as fast as Ty Lawson or as high flying with G. That has to help at least a bit, with an adjustment to college game speed in football.

[bjornolf]

Uhh, not gonna happen (playing QB at Duke, that is). Zero percent chance. Even Cutcliffe said so. As crazy as it sounds, it's more likely for Greg to play QB at Michigan than Duke. We already have two good options at QB.

I think it's against the rules for him to play here. I think if a player plays four seasons in one sport, he has one year left in a different sport, AT ANOTHER school. I don't think he COULD play at Duke legally.

I would also agree with whoever said it would be rough for him. I played college ball too, at Duke. There is a HUGE difference between fast in football and fast in basketball. When you put pads and cleats on a guy, it TOTALLY changes the way he moves. Paulus may still be quick and have decent speed on a football field, but there are no guarantees. I hope he does well and think there's a decent chance for him, but I wouldn't be shocked if he lost a lot of his speed and quickness in pads, especially after four years out of them.

[CameronBornAndBred]

At the very least, seeing Paulus in pads as a wide reciever would make the spring game even more interesting.

[kmspeaks]

I think it's against the rules for him to play here. I think if a player plays four seasons in one sport, he has one year left in a different sport, AT ANOTHER school. I don't think he COULD play at Duke legally.

He doesn't have to be at a different school only playing a different sport. In general (of course there are always different exceptions for injuries, transfers, etc) a player gets 5 years of athletic eligibility with no more than 4 years in any one sport.

[chrishoke]

Cut was just quoted on sports center saying he would not play at Duke - we have an established QB - said Mich and the spread are a good option for him.

[obsesseddukefan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4070344

Stay in our family Greg!

[Mal]

As I said before, I will be shocked if a guy who hasn't played the sport in 4 years (and has never seen the speed of the college game) will be ready to compete next year.

Cue snarky comments re: style of football played in Big Ten. :)

I generally agree - I don't think it's terribly likely that someone who hasn't dropped back against live defenses in 4 years could adjust to the higher level of game almost immediately. Over the course of a season, yes, but the issue then is whether or not a coach and fanbase can be that patient when there's no longterm benefit to them in terms of getting that same QB back, well-seasoned, for the next year. Especially if his getting up to speed comes at the expense of leaving a bigtime QB recruit on the bench (unless you want to redshirt them, of course).

That said, there are certainly freshmen QBs (who are 18, not 22) who step in and succeed (even if they don't dominate) right away in the college game, so the time away from the game would seem to me more of a factor than the change in the game from high school to college. I think the change from college football to the NFL seems more pronounced. There's also the factor of spring and summer practice, so it's not like he wouldn't be in pads until August.

There's also the possibility Rodriguez would play a two-QB offense. This could help hide certain deficiencies, as well as let Rodriguez get Paulus out of the game if it's overwhelming him at any point.

I'll be rooting hard for Paulus to catch on somewhere - it would be a nice poke in the eye to all the irrational haters of him out there, as well as a great reflection on the kid himself. He certainly deserves success.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I really do not know if Paulus can play Div I college football next year or if has lost a step or whatever.

My guess is that when he finally figures out what he wants to do with the rest of his life and does it, then he will be very successful. He has too many great qualities not to.

SoCal

[formerdukeathlete]

Cut was just quoted on sports center saying he would not play at Duke - we have an established QB - said Mich and the spread are a good option for him.

Cut's position on Greg playing Football at Duke seems to be softening; is it also evolving? You cant tell me that the national high school football player of the year, starter in the US Army All American bowl, offered by top ten programs, has a zero chance of contributing for Duke at quarterback next fall. Not saying its going to happen, or, that this would be Greg's best option. But, as Jim Sumner once wrote on here, Cut seems a bit chauvinistic on this issue.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I like that Coach Cut is showing loyalty to our current QB. I think loyalty is something that is often lacking in the world.

GO DUKE!

[Wander]

I like that Coach Cut is showing loyalty to our current QB. I think loyalty is something that is often lacking in the world.


I see where you're coming from, but I prefer the "play your best players" approach.

I think it's best for all three parties involved - Greg, Duke, and Michigan - for Paulus to become a Wolverine. With that said, if he absolutely has his heart set on staying at Duke, it doesn't make sense for Cut to say he has zero percent chance of seeing playing time at QB.

And besides, we could always use a good backup quarterback - remember the Virginia Tech game this year? I think Asack actually had a negative QB rating.

[Bluedog]

And besides, we could always use a good backup quarterback - remember the Virginia Tech game this year? I think Asack actually had a negative QB rating.

We have a very capable (at least, I hope so) backup this year in Renfree. He wasn't available last year.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Cut was just quoted on sports center saying he would not play at Duke - we have an established QB - said Mich and the spread are a good option for him.
That was not a complete quote, if you read the article you will see he has offered him a tryout as wide reciever. He said he would not play at Duke as a QB.

[Duvall]

You cant tell me that the national high school football player of the year, starter in the US Army All American bowl, offered by top ten programs, has a zero chance of contributing for Duke at quarterback next fall.

Perhaps not. But David Cutcliffe can, and has.

[formerdukeathlete]

Perhaps not. But David Cutcliffe can, and has.

Kevin White may also be getting calls, as we write, that David Cutcliffe's position seems too rigid, from influential alums, Trustees, maybe even a call from Pres. Brodhead.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

I think this will be the first time we will see the Thread "Duke in the NFL" :)

[Duvall]

Kevin White may also be getting calls, as we write, that David Cutcliffe's position seems too rigid, from influential alums, Trustees, maybe even a call from Pres. Brodhead.

Both Kevin White and David Cutcliffe have extensive experience in dealing with influential and pushy alums, and know exactly how such requests should be sent to the appropriate circular file.

[bjornolf]

Several people have said that his best shot at the NFL might be as a Randle El type guy, so playing receiver at Duke would help prepare him for that. Maybe Cut could put the receiver option pass into the playbook!

Also, I was listening to Jim Rome today, and he said that about a half dozen NFL teams had shown some interest in him after his workout with the Packers. So, I guess all things considered, his workout with the Packers must have gone pretty well.

[formerdukeathlete]

Both Kevin White and David Cutcliffe have extensive experience in dealing with influential and pushy alums, and know exactly how such requests should be sent to the appropriate circular file.

Folks calling may include Trustees - they are White and Cut's effective superiors. If alums include important benefactors, that is not how it would be handled.

If as the process goes along, Greg considers his Michigan offer, his Pitt offer, his other offers, and visits with K and says I would really like to give it a shot here at Duke at QB, it could still happen. Not because of an effect of "pushy" alums interferring with a program. But, from the standpoint that our powers that be believe that Greg has earned this, we owe it to him, and nothing is certain - he may surprise. Perhaps most importantly, we may offer him this because this is how we treat folks within the Duke Family.

[RelativeWays]

I think this will be the first time we will see the Thread "Duke in the NFL" :)


Duke does have current active playerson NFL rosters you know. Hopefully we'll have at least 2 more with Eron and Mikey T sunday after next, maybe Cameron as well.

[bjornolf]

If worse comes to worse, maybe he could play in the UFL for a couple seasons and then hitch a ride on an NFL roster!

http://www.ufl-football.com/

[Jumbo]

Folks calling may include Trustees - they are White and Cut's effective superiors. If alums include important benefactors, that is not how it would be handled.

If as the process goes along, Greg considers his Michigan offer, his Pitt offer, his other offers, and visits with K and says I would really like to give it a shot here at Duke at QB, it will happen. Not because of an effect of "pushy" alums interferring with a program. But, from the standpoint that our powers that be believe that Greg has earned this, we owe it to him, and nothing is certain - he may surprise. Perhaps most importantly, we will offer him this because this is how we treat folks within the Duke Family.

I believe that is the definition of "the inmates running the asylum."

Trustees, boosters, whomever should not be making phone calls to a school's athletic director or football coach in that way. They have absolutely no business attempting to influence who starts at quarterback -- that is not their area of expertise and it's why they hired a strong AD and coach to begin with. That type of attitude disgusts me. Their job is to sit back and let White and Cut do their jobs. If, after a certain period of time, they determine that White and Cut are not doing their jobs well enough, they can be fired. But micromanaging of this sort is disturbing and wrong.

[Duvall]

If as the process goes along, Greg considers his Michigan offer, his Pitt offer, his other offers, and visits with K and says I would really like to give it a shot here at Duke at QB, it could still happen.

I have far too much respect for Greg Paulus and Michael Krzyzewski to consider this even a remote possibility. I am surprised to see that you think so little of both men.

[CDu]

Also, I was listening to Jim Rome today, and he said that about a half dozen NFL teams had shown some interest in him after his workout with the Packers. So, I guess all things considered, his workout with the Packers must have gone pretty well.

While it's certainly possible that this is the case, I wouldn't be so quick to make that assumption. Remember - the pre-draft period is a process of gathering information for teams. It's relatively inexpensive for them to schedule and work out a prospect. Teams aren't going to want to let the Packers have more information on a potential prospect (even if the likelihood of that player being useful is very small) when it will only cost them a day's trip to Durham to find out for themselves.

Also, QB is largely considered the toughest position to fill adequately in the NFL. As such, teams will take extra precautions so as not to miss any opportunity to find their next QB. If that means reaching a bit and taking a look at a guy who was highly touted but hasn't played in four years, so be it.

Given that, I wouldn't simply assume that getting calls from other teams means the Packers workout went well. It could just be a matter of teams not wanting to lose the information battle to a competitor.

[BlueintheFace]

Kevin White may also be getting calls, as we write, that David Cutcliffe's position seems too rigid, from influential alums, Trustees, maybe even a call from Pres. Brodhead.

I thought the same thing. Cut was a bit harsh. David, you HAVE to respect the Duke Athletics Money Cow.;)

[blueprofessor]

Article by the editor includes comments from observers (including a Syracuse sportswriter) about how great Paulus was as a high school quarterback. Apparently, Greg had a phenomenal arm.

http://deadspin.com/5213155/everybody-wants-greg-paulus

Alumni have every right to express an opinion that Greg be given a chance, just as the coach has the authority to make the final decision about a player's utility and whether to allow that player to try out.
In many cases it is the stakeholders, as alumni certainly are, who precipitate meaningful, needed change in an organization. Stakeholders keep the org's employees on their toes.
I trust that Cut is a fair coach who is well aware of Greg's talents and will make an honorable decision (if it comes to that) that is good for the team.

Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

[Duvall]

David, you HAVE to respect the Duke Athletics Money Cow.;)

No, he doesn't. His job is to build a successful program, not to cater to the whims of meddling alumni with delusions of their own importance and insight.

[Chicago 1995]

Kevin White may also be getting calls, as we write, that David Cutcliffe's position seems too rigid, from influential alums, Trustees, maybe even a call from Pres. Brodhead.

And if he is, god help us all. He hasn't played QB in four years, folks. Just because he was a hot prospect in 2005 doesn't mean he would have been a good college QB if he'd chosen to play FB and not BB. To assume under these circumstances that he can contribute at all is lunacy. Sheer lunacy. Does he still have potential? Apparently so. Lots of kids have potential and do nothing in college, and that's kids who, you know, spend four years playing and practicing FOOTBALL.

The adjustment from HS to college is too great. He's had too much time off. He's a shell of the athlete he was in HS, and based on his basketball play as a freshman, he wasn't all that athletic.

Greg should chase this opportunity. At the same time, we should be realists about this. Greg's best chance to have some success is to transfer someplace where he can get reps next year. That's going to be a rebuilding situation likely at the D 1-AA level. If he succeeds there, he's going to likely have to struggle to make an NFL team after he's struggled to make a CFL or UFL team.

You don't replace the four years of learning and development Greg missed out on in a summer. You just don't.

[BlueintheFace]

No, he doesn't. His job is to build a successful program, not to cater to the whims of meddling alumni with delusions of their own importance and insight.

Actually, the Money Cow I was referring to was Duke Basketball. And the wink was for sarcasm.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Folks calling may include Trustees - they are White and Cut's effective superiors. If alums include important benefactors, that is not how it would be handled.

If as the process goes along, Greg considers his Michigan offer, his Pitt offer, his other offers, and visits with K and says I would really like to give it a shot here at Duke at QB, it could still happen. Not because of an effect of "pushy" alums interferring with a program. But, from the standpoint that our powers that be believe that Greg has earned this, we owe it to him, and nothing is certain - he may surprise. Perhaps most importantly, we may offer him this because this is how we treat folks within the Duke Family.
Why on earth would a coach involved in rebuilding a program into better things, who has already recruited a high level QB by his own work, place a guy into his system who hasn't played in 4 years ahead of the ones he has already been tutoring? Take Cutcliffe at his words, he will not be a QB at Duke. Drop that fantasy and wish him well whether he plays for us at WR, or another school as QB.

[Bluedog]

Cutcliffe was just interviewed on SportsCenter. He said that HE went to Greg after the b-ball season ended seeing if he had any interest in joining the football team...Cut said he had joked with Paulus about it throughout his time here. He said that he spoke to Paulus about playing a position OTHER than QB, saying Duke's QB situation is solidified and the pro-style offense they employ takes TIME to learn and wouldn't work for somebody who hasn't played in four years and only has one year to learn it. Says Eli and Peyton Manning took some time to learn it. Says Greg is a fierce competitor and brings a lot of intensity. After asking if Greg was interested in joining the Duke fball team, essentially Greg said if it wasn't at the QB position, he wasn't interested. So, it seems pretty definitive that he won't be playing for Duke.

[CameronBornAndBred]

Thanks Bluedog. Cutcliffe the ever present recruiter, gotta love it.

[Bluedog]

Random question: they keep saying Greg could possibly "transfer" to Michigan. Isn't he graduating from Duke in May? So, how it that a "transfer"? Could he get a graduate degree and still be eligible or does he have to get another undergrad degree or what? Or maybe "transfer" is just an NCAA eligibility term as opposed to an academic term. I was just curious because to me it just seems like he'd be enrolling at Michigan or wherever after his Duke days are over due to graduation...not transferring.

[godukerocks]

Cutcliffe was just interviewed on SportsCenter. He said that HE went to Greg after the b-ball season ended seeing if he had any interest in joining the football team...Cut said he had joked with Paulus about it throughout his time here. He said that he spoke to Paulus about playing a position OTHER than QB, saying Duke's QB situation is solidified and the pro-style offense they employ takes TIME to learn and wouldn't work for somebody who hasn't played in four years and only has one year to learn it. Says Eli and Peyton Manning took some time to learn it. Says Greg is a fierce competitor and brings a lot of intensity. After asking if Greg was interested in joining the Duke fball team, essentially Greg said if it wasn't at the QB position, he wasn't interested. So, it seems pretty definitive that he won't be playing for Duke.

I missed this; does there happen to be a link?

[Bluedog]

Paulus will hold an in-person press conference and teleconference Thursday at 10 a.m., but he will not be announcing any immediate decisions, Duke spokesman Matt Plizga told The Chronicle. Instead, Paulus will discuss his post-basketball options.

http://sports.chronicleblogs.com/


Paulus visits Michigan; Duke ruled out (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/paulus-visits-michigan-duke-ruled-out)


"He's a quarterback at heart. There was no way he was going to be able to compete and play quarterback for us, and I think that was the deciding factor."

Cutcliffe offered to let Paulus come out to Duke's final six practices and see if he could help at slot receiver, but Paulus didn't take him up on the offer.

[CDu]

Why on earth would a coach involved in rebuilding a program into better things, who has already recruited a high level QB by his own work, place a guy into his system who hasn't played in 4 years ahead of the ones he has already been tutoring? Take Cutcliffe at his words, he will not be a QB at Duke. Drop that fantasy and wish him well whether he plays for us at WR, or another school as QB.

Well said. I'm honestly not sure why formerdukeathlete is so insistent on barking up this tree. Duke has a pretty darn good QB who has multiple years of experience in the system. Paulus was an extremely talented high school QB but hasn't put on the pads in four years.

Is there a chance that Paulus could miraculously get accustomed to the game speed of college football* in such a short time? I guess anything's possible. But I think Cutcliffe is only being honest and fair to Paulus and supportive of his incumbent QB when he says that the QB job isn't going to be available.

That said, I certainly wish Paulus the best in whatever he winds up doing - regardless of whether that be playing football somewhere next year, playing pro basketball overseas, beginning a coaching career, or moving away from sports. Hopefully there'll be opportunities for him in his desired path.

* As preemptive strike against the "he's played four years of basketball, so he's used to high game speed: there's a big difference between being up to game speed for college basketball and being up to game speed for college football. Reading and reacting in one sport does not mean you're able to read and react in another sport.

[SoCalDukeFan]

I respect every Paulus did for Duke BB. I think he is a tremendous competitor and seems like a great guy.

What does he think he is going to do next year at Duke or any other college playing quarterback?

The only situation I can see is as a backup, maybe 3rd team. Teams are come out of their spring practice with a starting qb and he is not there. Maybe if you had a senior starter and a frosh in waiting and a shaky backup you might want Greg to back up the starter and let the frosh get some more seasoning.

He should look to UCLA. Last year they needed a qb.

The last thing any of us should do is meddle with Cut's program. I would hope that Kevin White will say that Cut coaches the football players and K the basketball players.

SoCal

[MarkD83]

Random question: they keep saying Greg could possibly "transfer" to Michigan. Isn't he graduating from Duke in May? So, how it that a "transfer"? Could he get a graduate degree and still be eligible or does he have to get another undergrad degree or what? Or maybe "transfer" is just an NCAA eligibility term as opposed to an academic term. I was just curious because to me it just seems like he'd be enrolling at Michigan or wherever after his Duke days are over due to graduation...not transferring.

Greg can easily transfer without graduating by changing his major. He would then not have enough credits in his major area and would not be able to graduate from Duke. He could then transfer to another school redeclare a major for which he has enough credits and graduate from the other school in December.

[CDu]

I respect every Paulus did for Duke BB. I think he is a tremendous competitor and seems like a great guy.

What does he think he is going to do next year at Duke or any other college playing quarterback?

While I mostly agree with the rest of your sentiment (I think it's much more likely that he'd only be prepared to be a backup next year), I don't blame him from exploring the possibilities. It doesn't hurt to ask around. You never know unless you ask.

Similarly, I don't blame the NFL or Michigan (or any other college, for that matter) from kicking the tires. For the NFL, they can take a cheap look to see if there's something worth taking a flier on for a long-term project as a third-stringer. For colleges, maybe he can be a second-string for a program in need of a backup to protect their redshirt freshman. I have trouble believing a team would be looking to him as a starter, for the reasons you mentioned (teams don't like to go into the summer without their starting QB already set, and Paulus faces a steep learning curve in a very short time).

[JasonEvans]

The guys on PTI had Paulus as one of their top conversation topics today. They mostly talked about how insane it was that the NFL and Michigan and others could be interested in Paulus as a QB but DUKE WAS NOT INTERESTED. Kornheiser said, "since when is Duke so good in football that they are turning away a kid who Michigan wants?!?!?!"

I found it pretty funny. Clearly, the guys on PTI are no aware of the quality program that Cut is building here.

--Jason "if Cut thinks Greg is not up to learning his offense, I back that decision 100%" Evans

[Jumbo]

Article by the editor includes comments from observers (including a Syracuse sportswriter) about how great Paulus was as a high school quarterback. Apparently, Greg had a phenomenal arm.

http://deadspin.com/5213155/everybody-wants-greg-paulus

Alumni have every right to express an opinion that Greg be given a chance, just as the coach has the authority to make the final decision about a player's utility and whether to allow that player to try out.
In many cases it is the stakeholders, as alumni certainly are, who precipitate meaningful, needed change in an organization. Stakeholders keep the org's employees on their toes.
I trust that Cut is a fair coach who is well aware of Greg's talents and will make an honorable decision (if it comes to that) that is good for the team.

Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

Hogwash. Alumni are not "stakeholders." They are spectators without remotely an ounce of a football coach's ability to judge talent, call plays, etc. Just as alumni wouldn't tell a political science professor what pieces of literature to introduce when explaining theories on political parties, they need to keep their mouths shut on who should be playing quarterback at Duke. If they want Coach Cutcliffe fired, then push for him to be fired. Otherwise, they need to shut up and let him do his job. If not, they're no better than Buddy Garrity.

[SoCalDukeFan]

While I mostly agree with the rest of your sentiment (I think it's much more likely that he'd only be prepared to be a backup next year), I don't blame him from exploring the possibilities. It doesn't hurt to ask around. You never know unless you ask.

Similarly, I don't blame the NFL or Michigan (or any other college, for that matter) from kicking the tires. For the NFL, they can take a cheap look to see if there's something worth taking a flier on for a long-term project as a third-stringer. For colleges, maybe he can be a second-string for a program in need of a backup to protect their redshirt freshman. I have trouble believing a team would be looking to him as a starter, for the reasons you mentioned (teams don't like to go into the summer without their starting QB already set, and Paulus faces a steep learning curve in a very short time).

I want to see Greg get started in BB coaching so he will be a candidate when K retires in 25 or 30 years.

I guess I came across as a little too harsh. There is nothing wrong with Greg kicking the tires. I would hope that his expectations are realistic. It would be great to see him play well in college.

SoCal

[BlueintheFace]

Hogwash. Alumni are not "stakeholders." They are spectators without remotely an ounce of a football coach's ability to judge talent, call plays, etc. Just as alumni wouldn't tell a political science professor what pieces of literature to introduce when explaining theories on political parties, they need to keep their mouths shut on who should be playing quarterback at Duke. If they want Coach Cutcliffe fired, then push for him to be fired. Otherwise, they need to shut up and let him do his job. If not, they're no better than Buddy Garrity.

I don't know if I agree with this. Sports coaches and university presidents are the most visible (and usually powerful) representatives of their university. They work towards success for that school and all of the students, alumni etc...

Senators are the most visible (and usually powerful) representatives of their states. They work towards success for that state and all of the citizens who live there.

In both situations, these figures recognize their roles as representatives and listen to their citizens/students or alumni because if they don't then the little people will throw them out. In politics that happens through elections. In sports it happens through the media and pressure on the AD.

The comparison isn't exact, but i think it is close enough to make the point. When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble.

Additionally, the universities recognize and embrace this relationship. You may recall that Duke Football held a summit recently and encouraged the input of alumni, boosters, and former Duke players.

[Duvall]

Paulus was an extremely talented high school QB but hasn't put on the pads in four years.


Actually, I'm not sure we can say this for certain. Paulus established a reputation as an extremely talented high school quarterback and a record as a highly successful high school quarterback against the same level of competetion against which he established a reputation as an extremely talented high school point guard and a record as a highly successful high school point guard.

[BD80]

One concern I have, and one I am certain Greg is considering, is the difference in football conditioning and basketball conditioning. Someone noted that Greg would have to put on about 30 pounds to get into football shape. That level of muscle mass is necessary to endure the physical contact of football. In high school, Greg tried to fluctuate between the two body types, and thus took some time at Duke to develop true basketball conditioning.

I am sure Greg could bulk up a great deal over the summer, and add mass during the football season, but he probably wouldn't achieve true football conditioning within the year. He would, however, be in better condition to work out for pro teams next year.

However, if Greg were to approach a year of football like he seems to approach other things in his life, he could be moving himself away from basketball conditioning, and harming his professional basketball opportunities (there are non-NBA opportunities). A year away from basketball would also erode his skill level.

It does sound like Greg has some interesting opportunities, and some interesting decisions.

[kmspeaks]

I don't know if I agree with this. Sports coaches and university presidents are the most visible (and usually powerful) representatives of their university. They work towards success for that school and all of the students, alumni etc...

Senators are the most visible (and usually powerful) representatives of their states. They work towards success for that state and all of the citizens who live there.

In both situations, these figures recognize their roles as representatives and listen to their citizens/students or alumni because if they don't then the little people will throw them out. In politics that happens through elections. In sports it happens through the media and pressure on the AD.

The comparison isn't exact, but i think it is close enough to make the point. When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble.

Additionally, the universities recognize and embrace this relationship. You may recall that Duke Football held a summit recently and encouraged the input of alumni, boosters, and former Duke players.

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this comparison.

Senators are elected by the people of their state to represent their interests.

Football coaches are hired to win games and build a successful program that the school and alumni can be proud of on and off the field. Not to start Player X because the big spenders like him.

[Duvall]

When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble.

I really, really pity the poor bastard that has to follow Michael William Krzyzewski.

[BlueintheFace]

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this comparison.

Senators are elected by the people of their state to represent their interests.

Football coaches are hired to win games and build a successful program that the school and alumni can be proud of on and off the field. Not to start Player X because the big spenders like him.

As a wise man once said, "ther is no perfect analogy"

No offense, but your point is trivial and completely unrelated to what I was saying

I'll post the conclusion I made again for your perusal: "the comparison isn't exact, but i think it is close enough to make the point. When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble."

...but since you brought it up. Whether elected or hired the power of both positions is derived from the support of the constituents/ students and alumni. Additionally, both lose their jobs when the constituents/ students and alumni become dissatisfied.

So what difference does your distinction make? How does it affect my point that, like politicians, university coaches and presidents are highly visible reps of their organization (state) that need to appease in order to keep their power?

[gvtucker]

Sorry, but David Cutcliffe is NOT going to listen to any alum or trustee that micromanages a football program to such a ridiculous degree that they're actually talking about one specific player.

And Kevin White is far too good of an athletic director to spend one second getting involved in something like that, either.

If a trustee or financial supporter of Duke football called Cut or White to express such a sentiment, I am very confident that this alum or trustee would be granted an audience and listened to intently, after which his suggestions would be completely ignored.

[BlueintheFace]

Sorry, but David Cutcliffe is NOT going to listen to any alum or trustee that micromanages a football program to such a ridiculous degree that they're actually talking about one specific player.

And Kevin White is far too good of an athletic director to spend one second getting involved in something like that, either.

Now that I agree with.

[Exiled_Devil]

As a wise man once said, "ther is no perfect analogy"

No offense, but your point is trivial and completely unrelated to what I was saying

I'll post the conclusion I made again for your perusal: "the comparison isn't exact, but i think it is close enough to make the point. When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble."

...but since you brought it up. Whether elected or hired the power of both positions is derived from the support of the constituents/ students and alumni. Additionally, both lose their jobs when the constituents/ students and alumni become dissatisfied.

So what difference does your distinction make? How does it affect my point that, like politicians, university coaches and presidents are highly visible reps of their organization (state) that need to appease in order to keep their power?

Umm, no.

Elected means directly responsible to your constituents. Being a hired (high profile) employee of the university means you are responsible to either the university mission or your boss (depending on how idealistic you are.)

Using democratically elected officials as a metaphor for the situation of a sports coach potentially being beholden to big donors and/or mad fans is more than a trivial distinction. Your whole premise is about the relationship between the players. And a coach is neither directly chosen by fans nor are they representatives of the fans.

I don't have any point to the bigger argument, but I needed to point out that flaw. Inappropriate metaphors to democracy are a pet peeve of mone.

[Jumbo]

As a wise man once said, "ther is no perfect analogy"

No offense, but your point is trivial and completely unrelated to what I was saying

I'll post the conclusion I made again for your perusal: "the comparison isn't exact, but i think it is close enough to make the point. When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble."

...but since you brought it up. Whether elected or hired the power of both positions is derived from the support of the constituents/ students and alumni. Additionally, both lose their jobs when the constituents/ students and alumni become dissatisfied.

So what difference does your distinction make? How does it affect my point that, like politicians, university coaches and presidents are highly visible reps of their organization (state) that need to appease in order to keep their power?

Actually, I didn't find his point to be trivial at all. And it's not that your analogy "isn't perfect." It's that it isn't even remotely close to being on target.

Comparing anyone to a government official who is elected by the people is problematic enough. But to follow your incredibly flawed analogy, said politician wouldn't just be responsible to the people who elect him. He'd need to make decisions on everything from tax votes to hiring a secretary to choosing his stationery based on what the voters demand. There's a reason why we have representative democracy and not direct democracy.

But again, I don't think the analogy has any merit, so I'd like to get away from it. Simply put, the coach reports to his AD. The AD reports to his school's president. If they don't do their jobs well, they can be fired. But that doesn't mean they should -- for one second -- make decisions about strategy, personnel or lunch because they "beholden" to the people they supposedly represent on a grand stage. Duke's fans -- no matter how well connected or wealthy they might be -- don't get to pick the starting quarterback. Not only don't they get to make that decision, anyone who think he/she should place a phone call to influence that decision needs to seriously rethink his/her priorities and place in life.

[BlueintheFace]

Umm, no.

Elected means directly responsible to your constituents. Being a hired (high profile) employee of the university means you are responsible to either the university mission or your boss (depending on how idealistic you are.)

...and your boss only keep his job if the alumni support him. That is a FACT. I'm not looking at the surface here. I am talking about the nature of the relationships. How many coaches out there hold on to their job for very long when the alumni dislike him.


Using democratically elected officials as a metaphor for the situation of a sports coach potentially being beholden to big donors and/or mad fans is more than a trivial distinction.

How? People. Stop saying it is. Tell me why!!

Who cares HOW you get the position. Once you hold it, you are beholden to the masses. Politicians are directly beholden to the public while Coaches are beholden to their University Presidents who are beholden to the public (in a big way). The only distinction is a middle player, but the TRUTH REMAINS. If the alumni aren't happy you lose you job! If the constituents aren't happy, you lose your job.

I am obviously not saying that Cut has to take Paulus on the team because some boosters said so. That would be ridiculous. I am, however, saying that Cut needs to keep the alumni and boosters happy to a degree. He needs to pick up that phone when certain people call and then make the decisions he is paid to make. The students, alumni, and boosters DO HAVE A SAY. That is just how it is.


Your whole premise is about the relationship between the players. And a coach is neither directly chosen by fans nor are they representatives of the fans.

I made no comment or reference whatsoever to actual players in the athletic sense. If you mean regarding political players, then yes. But how they get their power seems pretty trivial since the discussion is about how they hold on to it and potentially lose it.


I don't have any point to the bigger argument, but I needed to point out that flaw. Inappropriate metaphors to democracy are a pet peeve of mone.

As to your pet peeve. That is understandable. The analogy is not perfect, and for that I apologize, but it is pretty comparable with regard to my point.

I would encourage you to think about how the analogy speaks to my point, not how peripheral comparisons fall short.

[BlueintheFace]

If they don't do their jobs well, they can be fired.

A BIG part of doing their jobs is making the fans and boosters happy. I'm not saying thats the way it should be. That's just the way it is. If the boosters don't like the coach, the contributions fall off. If the alumni don't like the coach, the media carries the ball for them on that.

Of course, if you win, run a clean program, etc... then they will generally all like you. But if you don't win as much as some would like, it's a little harder and booster appeasement becomes a bit more important.

[kmspeaks]

As a wise man once said, "ther is no perfect analogy"

No offense, but your point is trivial and completely unrelated to what I was saying

I'll post the conclusion I made again for your perusal: "the comparison isn't exact, but i think it is close enough to make the point. When you are a visible and powerful representative of a large organization, you are beholden to the masses. The power is still yours, but you better listen or there will be trouble."

...but since you brought it up. Whether elected or hired the power of both positions is derived from the support of the constituents/ students and alumni. Additionally, both lose their jobs when the constituents/ students and alumni become dissatisfied.

So what difference does your distinction make? How does it affect my point that, like politicians, university coaches and presidents are highly visible reps of their organization (state) that need to appease in order to keep their power?

I agree with your point that coaches and presidents are reps of the university. Where I disagree is how far they are "beholden to the masses". A coach is responsible to the fans in the sense that he needs to represent the university in a positive manner and produce wins on the field. I don't feel he is responsible to the point of taking into account their opinions on a specific player. That is where your analogy falls short.

Again I want government officials to represent my interests and vote how i would if I were in office. I want coaches to win games for the school I cheer for, not play the players I would if I were coaching.

[zingit]

So, ummmm, back on topic . . .

We have been talking about how Paulus would have to adjust to playing football again, and I just wanted to chime in with a little anecdote about that. Back in 2006 (IIRC), when Coach K had his meeting with the Crazies before the UNC game, I remember him talking about Paulus's progress and briefly mentioning something about how they had to correct Paulus's passing form, because he was passing like a football player, not like a basketball player. Coach K demonstrated the stance and motion for each, and it sorta went over my head, but I think it was something about how a player steps into one kind of pass but not the other kind. Paulus had to retrain himself to do it a certain way and shake off his football reflexes. I thought that was interesting, and it just goes to show how there are all kinds of reflexes and muscle memories that go into playing a sport that a player might not even be aware of. I would not be surprised if his football coach gets on his case about passing like a basketball player! ;) Anyway, it would be an obstacle to his adjustment to football, should he choose that path, but I have no doubt in Paulus's willingness to put in the work necessary to overcome it.

[CameronBornAndBred]

--Jason "if Cut thinks Greg is not up to learning his offense, I back that decision 100%" Evans
That is going into one of my top ten favorite JE signatures ever. I could make a cool coffee table book out of the other 83.

[gep]

--Jason "if Cut thinks Greg is not up to learning his offense, I back that decision 100%" Evans


That is going into one of my top ten favorite JE signatures ever. I could make a cool coffee table book out of the other 83.

I, too, totally agree with Coach Cut. As I trust in Coach K, I trust in Coach Cut. After all, we were all very happy when Coach Cut was hired, and how he actually started to change the football culture at Duke. I do not want Coach Cut to start listening to the "masses" about how to run his football program. If he's very comfortable with his QB situation, that's it for me. If he had lots of questions at QB, where he's looking at defensive backs, running backs, etc as potential QB's, then I think he *might* look at Greg at QB. But with the team he has and is building, I trust his judgement 100%:)

[HK Dukie]

Duke is stacked at the QB position. Why bring in a one-year player and lose your own sense of independence from the basketball program?

Even though there is a chance Greg might be the most effective person at the QB position there is something to be said for a 4th year starter and developing the younger guys. I support Coach Cut.

That said, I hope Greg either gets a free year of grad school out of this, some serious NFL tryouts, or leverage for a better basketball contract overseas.

Anyone ever think that Greg is exactly the type of guy you would want to go to war with? Maybe he should consider special ops :)

[dgoore97]

we currently have a 4 yr starter who is an all-ACC performer at qb. seems ridiculous to suggest that we should bring in someone else -- regardless of how good he was i HS 4 yrs ago -- and suggest that we might give the job to that person. if Cut were to do that he would drop down a bunch of notches for me and i think team morale would suffer as well from the lack of loyalty.

IMHO, if possible, paulus should redshirt next season to get in football shape, and then see where he is as a college or pro prospect. if he's ready there will always be a place for a productive qb, if not at duke then somewhere else.

[CDu]

we currently have a 4 yr starter who is an all-ACC performer at qb. seems ridiculous to suggest that we should bring in someone else -- regardless of how good he was i HS 4 yrs ago -- and suggest that we might give the job to that person. if Cut were to do that he would drop down a bunch of notches for me and i think team morale would suffer as well from the lack of loyalty.

IMHO, if possible, paulus should redshirt next season to get in football shape, and then see where he is as a college or pro prospect. if he's ready there will always be a place for a productive qb, if not at duke then somewhere else.

Unfortunately for Paulus, he does not have the luxury of redshirting. He would be on his fifth year of eligibility next year. So his only hope of playing college ball is to play next year.

[formerdukeathlete]

So, ummmm, back on topic . . .

We have been talking about how Paulus would have to adjust to playing football again, and I just wanted to chime in with a little anecdote about that. Back in 2006 (IIRC), when Coach K had his meeting with the Crazies before the UNC game, I remember him talking about Paulus's progress and briefly mentioning something about how they had to correct Paulus's passing form, because he was passing like a football player, not like a basketball player. Coach K demonstrated the stance and motion for each, and it sorta went over my head, but I think it was something about how a player steps into one kind of pass but not the other kind. Paulus had to retrain himself to do it a certain way and shake off his football reflexes. I thought that was interesting, and it just goes to show how there are all kinds of reflexes and muscle memories that go into playing a sport that a player might not even be aware of. I would not be surprised if his football coach gets on his case about passing like a basketball player! ;) Anyway, it would be an obstacle to his adjustment to football, should he choose that path, but I have no doubt in Paulus's willingness to put in the work necessary to overcome it.


From what i gather, even speaking with a d-1 offensive coordinator who was also an NFL qb coach who knows Greg, there is no doubt Greg can learn a complex, extensive playbook, and do so quickly. This is also a positive i have heard about Renfree, that he had Cut's playbook pretty much down, even while having to learn opposition plays to run for the scout team last season.

A word about stakeholders - I would say this - that Cut's inflexibility on Greg does not sit exactly well with some of our important stakeholders. He was fired by Ole Miss for inflexibility, whether fairly or not. He was not a leading candidate at UT for whatever reason. There would have been no skin off Cut's nose to have given Greg a try at qb. Only downside for not giving Greg a shot, particularly, if Greg excells at another school.

If, behind the scenes, Cut opens up whatever resources are permissible for Greg, between now and when Greg leaves for another school or the NFL, this i think mitigates the sting of the problem.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

Thad Lewis is our present at QB, Renfree is our future. For Sean to lose snaps to Paulus in practice or games this next season would not be in our long term interest.

As I said earlier in the thread, best of luck to Greg wherever he plays football next season. I'll be rooting for him!

[jjasper0729]

I wouldn't call coach Cut inflexible on Paulus on the team. I chalk it up to knowing what he has currently and what he thinks Paulus can offer him.

1) Paulus ran the spread in HS and Cut runs a pro-style offense here.

2) Thad and Sean have been through spring practice and in the system for 2 years now. They should know it inside and out.

It's not a slight to Greg, it's just an understanding that it took the guys we have a couple of years to know the system he runs and Greg ONLY has one year of eligibility and probably wants a chance to actually play if that's what he's looking to do.

[dukie8]

From what i gather, even speaking with a d-1 offensive coordinator who was also an NFL qb coach who knows Greg, there is no doubt Greg can learn a complex, extensive playbook, and do so quickly. This is also a positive i have heard about Renfree, that he had Cut's playbook pretty much down, even while having to learn opposition plays to run for the scout team last season.

A word about stakeholders - I would say this - that Cut's inflexibility on Greg does not sit exactly well with some of our important stakeholders. He was fired by Ole Miss for inflexibility, whether fairly or not. He was not a leading candidate at UT for whatever reason. There would have been no skin off Cut's nose to have given Greg a try at qb. Only downside for not giving Greg a shot, particularly, if Greg excells at another school.

If, behind the scenes, Cut opens up whatever resources are permissible for Greg, between now and when Greg leaves for another school or the NFL, this i think mitigates the sting of the problem.

Cut got fired at Ole Miss because he didn't win enough. It had nothing to do with flexibility or inflexibility. You can be as inflexible as you want as long as you are winning enough games to satisfy the AD/President/fans.

There would be a lot of skin off Cut's nose if he invited Paulus in to try out for QB. If i were 1 of the 2 guys currently 1-2 on the depth chart, I would be pissed off that Cut would even entertain the idea of allowing someone who hasn't played QB in over 4 years at the high school level who only can play 1 year the chance to take practice snaps away. He would be risky team morale if he did so. With that being said, Cut knows that Paulus is a very good athlete, smart and has a great attitude so he smartly offered Paulus a chance to try out for other positions. I could see him being a pesky WR or returner in the mold of Wes Welker and those positions don't take years of practice to become good at (unlike QB).

[roywhite]

I don't have any problem with Coach Cut's position on this; seems like he was upfront with Greg; Duke does have a veteran QB in place and a very promising young QB as a backup.

Just my opinion, but Greg oughta give Michigan or Pitt a try. They need help at QB, would likely give him a fair chance, and Greg would get a reasonable look at whether he has a pro FB future. Nothing wrong with a change of scene.

[Bluedog]

Cut got fired at Ole Miss because he didn't win enough. It had nothing to do with flexibility or inflexibility. You can be as inflexible as you want as long as you are winning enough games to satisfy the AD/President/fans.

Cut was 44-29 at Ole Miss with a 4-1 bowl record, including a Cotton Bowl victory and SEC West Championship. Yeah, he was 4-7 in his last season, but how has Ole Miss done since then and before his time? Much worse. Obviously, the losses that season had something to do with it, but he could have kept his job if he fired his assistants and developed a new plan. So, yeah, he didn't want to develop a "new plan" because he thought what he had in place was the best for the program, and he didn't want to fire his assistants. Thus, while losses might have contributed, he also got fired because of his loyalty/unwilling to fire assistants/inflexibility/stubbornness/pride or whatever you want to call it.

[Memphis Devil]

Greg will be on the Dan Patrick radio show in about 10 Minutes.

[Cameron]

Not sure if it's been posted here or not, but, per Greg Paulus, Michigan head coach Rich Rodriguez has offered Greg a football scholarship to battle for the starting QB position in Ann Arbor.

This is very exciting news. Syracuse appears to be a front-runner in this process as well.

[Duvall]

This is also a positive i have heard about Renfree, that he had Cut's playbook pretty much down, even while having to learn opposition plays to run for the scout team last season.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to your September.


A word about stakeholders - I would say this - that Cut's inflexibility on Greg does not sit exactly well with some of our important stakeholders.

I can only assume that these are the same important stakeholders that were going to fire President Brodhead Real Soon Now a few years back.

[roywhite]

Greg will be on the Dan Patrick radio show in about 10 Minutes.

Yeah, thanks, I listened in. No bombshells; Dan was pretty direct in his questions and Greg (referring to him as Mr. Patrick) answered the questions. Apparently has several college FB opportunities, which seems to include Michigan (and not Duke). Also evaluating future basketball opportunities; hope to decide soon.

Not stated directly, but my hunch after hearing this is that Greg may end up in Ann Arbor.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/61842/index.html

Is he going to try to walk on or is he getting a scholarship?

[roywhite]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/61842/index.html

Is he going to try to walk on or is he getting a scholarship?

Sounded like a scholarship is being offered at UM. Of course this is just a one-year situation.

[formerdukeathlete]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/danpatrick/blog/61842/index.html

Is he going to try to walk on or is he getting a scholarship?

Scholarships would be offered at each school interested - more than a few schools at this point.

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

Looks like SI updated their article/blog. It originally said as a walk on:

"Paulus said that there is an opportunity for him to continue his academic education at Michigan in a master program and walk on the football team."

Now it says:

"Paulus said that there is an opportunity for him to play football at Michigan. He said he would continue his education in a masters program and join the team.

[dukie8]

Cut was 44-29 at Ole Miss with a 4-1 bowl record, including a Cotton Bowl victory and SEC West Championship. Yeah, he was 4-7 in his last season, but how has Ole Miss done since then and before his time? Much worse. Obviously, the losses that season had something to do with it, but he could have kept his job if he fired his assistants and developed a new plan. So, yeah, he didn't want to develop a "new plan" because he thought what he had in place was the best for the program, and he didn't want to fire his assistants. Thus, while losses might have contributed, he also got fired because of his loyalty/unwilling to fire assistants/inflexibility/stubbornness/pride or whatever you want to call it.

It's not that his losses "might have" contributed to his firing -- it's why he was fired. 4-7 with an irrational AD/President/fan base will do it. The fact that he won games in prior seasons didn't matter and neither did the fact that he was "inflexible." The fact that it was a dumb decision or that Ole Miss has been worse since he left doesn't change the fact that he was NOT fired because he was inflexible -- he was fired because the powers that be were not happy with his 4-7 season. He was just as inflexible in the prior seasons but wasn't fired after those winning ones.

[formerdukeathlete]

I can only assume that these are the same important stakeholders that were going to fire President Brodhead Real Soon Now a few years back.

i think there is a distinction with a difference here. Brodhead, in taking what turned out to be ill thought actions in the Lacrosse matter, acted in concert, with the approval, or at the direction possibly of some Trustees.

In the case of Greg Paulus, who gave up 2 years of Football eligibility in attending Duke on a basketball grant, and who may have been discouraged from trying Football his last two years, he gave up a lot, there was a huge opportunity cost in playing for K. He has been a model citizen. In contrast Sean Renfree came to Duke for possibly his best pt opportunity and Thad came here for his best qb opportunity, period. We are giving everthing Thad and Sean could expect, plus good coaching. Some more competition at the qb position, well, we never promised them there would not be compeition.

[watzone]

How about some facts? Paulus q & a

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2106

[BlueintheFace]

ESPN article:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4073430

[Oh Canada]

"You know what, I’m a huge, huge fan of Coach Cutcliffe. I am a big fan of him and what he is doing and have a lot of friends on the team. If I play the game of football, I can only see myself as a quarterback and that’s one of things I want to do if that is the best option and in my heart that’s what I want to do - be a quarterback."


What a great guy with amazing character. It is obvious he wants to explore his true position but would never talk negatively about the school he loves. I wish him the best in anything he does.....he definitely deserves it!

[blazindw]

I would love for GP to step in at my beloved Michigan and be QB-1 there. If he can lead Michigan to a victory over Ohio Snake, I would be sooooooooo happy, and he will be a legend in my book. He would have beaten the two teams I detest the most (UNC hoops, Ohio Snake football). Oh, and he can go ahead and beat Michigan State and Notre Dame too :)

[SilkyJ]

How about some facts? Paulus q & a

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=2106

How about those facts!

Great Q&A, Mark. I really am just shocked that a guy who hasn't played in 4 years and has never taken a snap in college, or even gone through a practice in college, has interest from PRO teams. The college teams I can get, but man, several pro teams?! wow.

My current roommate and lifelong buddy was a kicker for UPenn a few years ago and when I mentioned this story, particularly the part about the packers he kind of brushed it off and said "the packers came to Penn and worked some kids out too" implying there might not be much to it. But it sounds like people are actually seeking him out, not just letting him throw while they happen to be on campus. Good luck, Greg!

[Jumbo]

A word about stakeholders - I would say this - that Cut's inflexibility on Greg does not sit exactly well with some of our important stakeholders. He was fired by Ole Miss for inflexibility, whether fairly or not. He was not a leading candidate at UT for whatever reason. There would have been no skin off Cut's nose to have given Greg a try at qb. Only downside for not giving Greg a shot, particularly, if Greg excells at another school.

And three words for those people who think of themselves as "stakeholders" -- I. Don't. Care.

Again, anyone so pompous as to place calls to the AD/coach regarding the starting QB is completely out of line. The process is simple: Hire someone smarter than you about a given subject, then get out of the way. Let the man do his job. Cut's ignoring these overbearing boosters with an inflated sense of entitlement isn't "inflexible." In fact, it's a positive trait. The day we have a coach who starts basing his personnel decisions on what boosters want is the day I'd like that man to be fired.

Taking this to another level, anyone who has played, coached, covered or even watched a lot of football understands that it is the ultimate team game, and it is approached largely through a militaristic method. Loyalty is as important as 40-times. Sacrifice is as important as the shuttle run. Leadership is as important as the bench press.

What kind of a message would you be sending every member of Duke's football team (and not just the senior QB) by bringing in Greg Paulus? All the patience that has been preached? Doesn't matter. Track record? Who cares, as long as the kid was a top high school recruit.

Let's take the best-case scenario -- that in the span of a few months, Paulus would've been able to pick up the whole playbook, regain all his old skills and perform at the level anticipated out of high school. In the end, what's that worth? He'd still be working behind and inexperienced line, some unproven receivers, no top-notch runnng backs, etc. How many wins would a new QB be worth? One? Two? Would Best Case Greg Paulus be the difference between Duke winning or losing against Miami?

It's not as if Duke is one player away from an ACC title, let alone a BCS title. So, essentially, you'd be sacrificing a zillion important steps in building a program to bring in a guy for one year who, in the best of circumstances, might help you win one or two more games. Fantastic. Then what happens the following season?

Yeah, "stakeholders" really should be calling White and Cutcliffe with that brilliant advice.

[Wander]

Let's take the best-case scenario -- that in the span of a few months, Paulus would've been able to pick up the whole playbook, regain all his old skills and perform at the level anticipated out of high school. In the end, what's that worth? He'd still be working behind and inexperienced line, some unproven receivers, no top-notch runnng backs, etc. How many wins would a new QB be worth? One? Two? Would Best Case Greg Paulus be the difference between Duke winning or losing against Miami?

It's not as if Duke is one player away from an ACC title, let alone a BCS title. So, essentially, you'd be sacrificing a zillion important steps in building a program to bring in a guy for one year who, in the best of circumstances, might help you win one or two more games. Fantastic. Then what happens the following season?


Now hold on there. I'm in 100% agreement about the stakeholder nonsense. But, if there was any realistic chance Paulus could help us win games - even just one or two - then yes, I'd want him on the team. No, there's no chance winning one or two more games will get us an ACC title - but what if it's the difference between bowl eligibility and not? That may be a tad on the optimisitc side, but it's not that unrealistic either.

What if Thad gets injured and Renfree doesn't do so hot in his first year? Stranger things have happened, and I'd like to remind everyone just how bad Asack was at QB when we needed to play him last year.

I'm as big a Thad fan as you'll find, and I think he would win the job anyway over Paulus. And I think it makes more sense for Greg to go to Michigan, which I hope he does. With all that said, from a completely selfish Duke fan perspective, I'd rather see Paulus on our team than not. At worst it would be neutral, and at best we'd win one or two more games.

[calltheobvious]

Now hold on there. I'm in 100% agreement about the stakeholder nonsense. But, if there was any realistic chance Paulus could help us win games - even just one or two - then yes, I'd want him on the team. No, there's no chance winning one or two more games will get us an ACC title - but what if it's the difference between bowl eligibility and not? That may be a tad on the optimisitc side, but it's not that unrealistic either.

What if Thad gets injured and Renfree doesn't do so hot in his first year? Stranger things have happened, and I'd like to remind everyone just how bad Asack was at QB when we needed to play him last year.

I'm as big a Thad fan as you'll find, and I think he would win the job anyway over Paulus. And I think it makes more sense for Greg to go to Michigan, which I hope he does. With all that said, from a completely selfish Duke fan perspective, I'd rather see Paulus on our team than not. At worst it would be neutral, and at best we'd win one or two more games.


The dominant theme of Jumbo's post was that Cutcliffe is thinking like a program-builder here, not like a guy who's going to get fired if he only wins five games next year instead of six or seven. He outlined the worst case (and I think the likely one), which is that the trust Cutcliffe has worked to develop within the team would be damaged substantially by making the move to Paulus. When that happens to a team, it's nearly impossible to recover.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I would love for GP to step in at my beloved Michigan and be QB-1 there. If he can lead Michigan to a victory over Ohio Snake, I would be sooooooooo happy, and he will be a legend in my book. He would have beaten the two teams I detest the most (UNC hoops, Ohio Snake football). Oh, and he can go ahead and beat Michigan State and Notre Dame too :)
That got me thinking, could you imagine what an amazing experience it would be to play in 2 of the most storied rivalry games in the history of sports, in the span of less than a year? Duke-unc, then Michigan-Ohio State. That would be incredible.

[SupaDave]

Now hold on there. I'm in 100% agreement about the stakeholder nonsense. But, if there was any realistic chance Paulus could help us win games - even just one or two - then yes, I'd want him on the team. No, there's no chance winning one or two more games will get us an ACC title - but what if it's the difference between bowl eligibility and not? That may be a tad on the optimisitc side, but it's not that unrealistic either.

What if Thad gets injured and Renfree doesn't do so hot in his first year? Stranger things have happened, and I'd like to remind everyone just how bad Asack was at QB when we needed to play him last year.

I'm as big a Thad fan as you'll find, and I think he would win the job anyway over Paulus. And I think it makes more sense for Greg to go to Michigan, which I hope he does. With all that said, from a completely selfish Duke fan perspective, I'd rather see Paulus on our team than not. At worst it would be neutral, and at best we'd win one or two more games.

Too funny. Did Greg Paulus just become the John Wall of college football?

[Wander]

He outlined the worst case (and I think the likely one), which is that the trust Cutcliffe has worked to develop within the team would be damaged substantially by making the move to Paulus. When that happens to a team, it's nearly impossible to recover.

My disagreement is that I don't think this case is very likely.

We're not talking about JJ Hickson or Josh McRoberts. Greg Paulus is about the least likely guy on the planet to develop into a team cancer.

[Kfanarmy]

And three words for those people who think of themselves as "stakeholders" -- I. Don't. Care.

Again, anyone so pompous as to place calls to the AD/coach regarding the starting QB is completely out of line. The process is simple: Hire someone smarter than you about a given subject, then get out of the way. Let the man do his job. Cut's ignoring these overbearing boosters with an inflated sense of entitlement isn't "inflexible." In fact, it's a positive trait. The day we have a coach who starts basing his personnel decisions on what boosters want is the day I'd like that man to be fired.

while I understand this statement in a sentimental, from the heart, sort of way, I wonder if everyone would feel the same if Duke had to hire the assistant coach from no-name-U because there weren't any "stakeholders" suppling the $ to get someone better. Funny how fans just want these wallets open without any input/evaluation of how the program is going or direction it is taking in between donations. Just my thoughts, if you're gonna take their money, your gonna get a certain amount of opinion on what to do with their investment...and usually the coach is involved in helping separate $'s from wallets.

[Wander]

Too funny. Did Greg Paulus just become the John Wall of college football?

Not Wall specifically, but a "one and done" player, yes, absolutely, that's a very good comparison.

[calltheobvious]

My disagreement is that I don't think this case is very likely.

We're not talking about JJ Hickson or Josh McRoberts. Greg Paulus is about the least likely guy on the planet to develop into a team cancer.

Nobody here or anywhere else thinks Paulus would be anything less than a fantastic teammate. What's important here are not Paulus's signals, but Cutcliffe's. And in some very important ways, those are going to be independent of Greg Paulus the person.

[Kfanarmy]

Nobody here or anywhere else thinks Paulus would be anything less than a fantastic teammate. What's important here are not Paulus's signals, but Cutcliffe's. And in some very important ways, those are going to be independent of Greg Paulus the person.

I can understand not wanting to create a sense of disloyalty on the team or a sense that some players are more entitled. On the other hand, I would imagine a significant bump in attendance and press coverage if someone from one of the most respected bb schools in the nation were transition to starting QB. I wonder if this was a hard decision for the FB coach, or if he saw the potential upside with the down.

[Inonehand]

From what i gather, even speaking with a d-1 offensive coordinator who was also an NFL qb coach who knows Greg, there is no doubt Greg can learn a complex, extensive playbook, and do so quickly. This is also a positive i have heard about Renfree, that he had Cut's playbook pretty much down, even while having to learn opposition plays to run for the scout team last season.

A word about stakeholders - I would say this - that Cut's inflexibility on Greg does not sit exactly well with some of our important stakeholders. He was fired by Ole Miss for inflexibility, whether fairly or not. He was not a leading candidate at UT for whatever reason. There would have been no skin off Cut's nose to have given Greg a try at qb. Only downside for not giving Greg a shot, particularly, if Greg excells at another school.

If, behind the scenes, Cut opens up whatever resources are permissible for Greg, between now and when Greg leaves for another school or the NFL, this i think mitigates the sting of the problem.

Greg is one of my favorite Blue Devils. I hope he explores every option and does the best thing for him. I would LOVE to see him suited up for any team on Saturdays. That team will immediately become my second favorite team!

As for Cutcliffe, it was his 'inflexibility', as you put it, at Ole Miss that allowed him to assemble a fantastic coaching staff at Duke. His unwillingness to hatchet away his Rebels staff at the ridiculously unqualified whims of the administration and 'stakeholders' is the reason these loyalty-impressed individuals came with him to Duke...heretofore a crash and burn location for many assistants.

I trust Cutcliffe's decision.

[SMO]

Too funny. Did Greg Paulus just become the John Wall of college football?

Post of the week! This just woke me up from post-season hibernation. :)

[blueprofessor]

Hogwash. Alumni are not "stakeholders." They are spectators without remotely an ounce of a football coach's ability to judge talent, call plays, etc. Just as alumni wouldn't tell a political science professor what pieces of literature to introduce when explaining theories on political parties, they need to keep their mouths shut on who should be playing quarterback at Duke. If they want Coach Cutcliffe fired, then push for him to be fired. Otherwise, they need to shut up and let him do his job. If not, they're no better than Buddy Garrity.

Obviously, Jumbo, you must be confusing Duke with a totalitarian society in which only the Leader's opinion counted. Certainly in such a repressive environment there are no stakeholders. Thank goodness, most orgs in the West have numerous stakeholders.
At Duke , stakeholders exist ,notwithstanding your untutored comment. If you are as unfamiliar with Duke as you seem, you might try contacting any person in responsibility at the alumni, development, or athletic offices and become "educated" about the fact that Duke believes alumni are a key member of the Duke community and are encouraged to support initiatives and express their opinions.Of course there is no guarantee that those opinions will lead to conforming actions.

Your anger is palpable.It appears formerdukeathlete is the red cape to your myopic bull.

Like any organization, when the stakeholders have their say (in the case at hand, perhaps to have suggested that Paulus be given a chance if he desired---and this seems to have been handled well by the coach and Greg), then it is usually the leader's (coach's) decision. That is also part of organizational governance.

Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

[A-Tex Devil]

It's not that his losses "might have" contributed to his firing -- it's why he was fired. 4-7 with an irrational AD/President/fan base will do it. The fact that he won games in prior seasons didn't matter and neither did the fact that he was "inflexible." The fact that it was a dumb decision or that Ole Miss has been worse since he left doesn't change the fact that he was NOT fired because he was inflexible -- he was fired because the powers that be were not happy with his 4-7 season. He was just as inflexible in the prior seasons but wasn't fired after those winning ones.

Well... it's a little bit of both actually. Yes. He was fired from Ole Miss because he failed to have a winning record in 2004. But overall, he was a winner and led Ole Miss to their best stretch of football since the 1960s.

He would NOT have been fired from Ole Miss that season had he agreed to let go of some of his assistants. I'm not saying he should have let them go or not, I don't know. But that is the "inflexibility" people are referring to.

So yeah... he got fired for not winning, but considering he was the most successful coach they have had for almost 40 years, I imagine more than just having a single losing season had something to do with it. But I also believe Ole Miss is the worse for it.

[formerdukeathlete]

...............Again, anyone so pompous as to place calls to the AD/coach regarding the starting QB is completely out of line. The process is simple: ............Cut's ignoring these overbearing boosters with an inflated sense of entitlement isn't "inflexible." ...............

....................Leadership is as important as the bench press.

What kind of a message would you be sending every member of Duke's football team (and not just the senior QB) by bringing in Greg Paulus? All the patience that has been preached? Doesn't matter. Track record? Who cares, as long as the kid was a top high school recruit.

Let's take the best-case scenario -- that in the span of a few months, Paulus would've been able to pick up the whole playbook, regain all his old skills and perform at the level anticipated out of high school. In the end, what's that worth? He'd still be working behind and inexperienced line, some unproven receivers, no top-notch runnng backs, etc. How many wins would a new QB be worth? One? Two? Would Best Case Greg Paulus be the difference between Duke winning or losing against Miami?

It's not as if Duke is one player away from an ACC title, let alone a BCS title. So, essentially, you'd be sacrificing a zillion important steps in building a program to bring in a guy for one year who, in the best of circumstances, might help you win one or two more games. Fantastic. Then what happens the following season?

Yeah, "stakeholders" really should be calling White and Cutcliffe with that brilliant advice.

I dont think folks, including Trustees, are calling up K. White saying start Greg Paulus.

Leadership is Greg Paulus' strong suit.

What kind of message in bringing in Greg for one year? "Greg is part of the Duke family. We denied him the chance to play his junior and senior year and this allowed you guys to develop. NFL teams and other programs are interested. He has 10 scholarship offers. The Trustees want me to give him a shot. He wants to stay at Duke. I am going to help him be the best qb he can be." I think that sort of message would be accepted by all team members who as a team want to win, because Greg may - there is a chance - help them win.

Paulus would be the brightest qb on many teams' rosters. Folks are pretty sure he can learn the whole playbook.

Best case is that Paulus helps us win a few more games, I'd say you are on track there. This might mean a bowl, or a better bowl. This helps recruiting. Best case, Paulus goes onto the NFL. This helps the Duke Football Program, long-term. What about the precedent? This is a once in a lifetime deal. Duke wont sign the best high school football player in the country to a basketball scholarship anytime soon. Not much risk of history repeating itself.

A word about flexibility. Cut was given an instruction at Ole Miss, to make changes in his staff, impliedly as a condition to keeping his job. Same deal for Groh at UVa this year. Cut, refused and was fired. The direct cause of his firing was the inflexibility - whether rightly or wrongly. The won loss record, play calling, some drop off in recruiting were the indrect causes. (A-Tex, after I posted, saw you said the same thing, sorry for the redundancy.)

[Jumbo]

Obviously, Jumbo, you must be confusing Duke with a totalitarian society in which only the Leader's opinion counted. Certainly in such a repressive environment there are no stakeholders. Thank goodness, most orgs in the West have numerous stakeholders.

Yes, that's EXACTLY what I'm doing. Coaching a football team or running a business is clearly the same as running a national dictatorship. Great analogy.


At Duke , stakeholders exist ,notwithstanding your untutored comment.
Somehow, despite my lack of tutoring, I've learned where to place a comma. So, there's that ...


If you are as unfamiliar with Duke as you seem, you might try contacting any person in responsibility at the alumni, development, or athletic offices and become "educated" about the fact that Duke believes alumni are a key member of the Duke community and are encouraged to support initiatives and express their opinions.Of course there is no guarantee that those opinions will lead to conforming actions.
Yes, that's the mission of any top university. That is not what has been suggested here. "Opinions" are one thing. Micromanaging and attempting to influence the selection of a starting QB through money and status, particularly when said "stakeholder" doesn't have an ounce of the expertise of the football coach, is another. Or, since you are a professor, would prefer to have alums calling you on a consistent basis to "suggest" which readings you should assign in your classes?


Your anger is palpable.It appears formerdukeathlete is the red cape to your myopic bull.
Hardly. I just have a real problem with the sense of entitlement demonstrated by alumni who believe they have the right to influence who starts at quarterback at Duke University.

[weezie]

Hey! I just heard that Paulus will be in goal for the Red Wings tonight as they begin their next Stanley Cup run!
Since he was visiting Michigan and all.......;)

[BlueintheFace]

Hey! I just heard that Paulus will be in goal for the Red Wings tonight as they begin their next Stanley Cup run!
Since he was visiting Michigan and all.......;)

That's impossible. I hear that Arsene Wenger (AKA "The Professor") has invited Paulus to become the newest young international star for Arsenal in their quest for the Champions League Title!!

[Franzez]

Why Michigan?

We have no QB to take serious at all here at Duke.

[-jk]

Why Michigan?

We have no QB to take serious at all here at Duke.

I think we have a second team All-ACC quarterback and a redshirt freshman prep All-American returning. Not exactly "no QB".

And - please - let's all of us take a deep breath and keep our collective cool here.

-jk

[COYS]

That's impossible. I hear that Arsene Wenger (AKA "The Professor") has invited Paulus to become the newest young international star for Arsenal in their quest for the Champions League Title!!

Please, Paulus would never play for the scum. :) Come On You Spurs!!!

[Jumbo]

I dont think folks, including Trustees, are calling up K. White saying start Greg Paulus.
That's certainly what you implied before. If they aren't, I'm very happy to hear that.


Leadership is Greg Paulus' strong suit.
Says who? I really, really, really hope things work out for the kid. But we don't know what kind of a leader he is. All we know is that he was a tri-captain on a team with no seniors as as sophomore, was not a captain as a junior, and was a tri-captain with two juniors this season. K annointed him as "the leader" in the middle of this season, then benched him. I don't feel like I know nearly enough about Greg Paulus or his basketball team's internal dynamics to determine what kind of a leader he is.


What kind of message in bringing in Greg for one year? "Greg is part of the Duke family. We denied him the chance to play his junior and senior year and this allowed you guys to develop.
"We denied him the chance to play his junior and senior year?" Seriously? Says who? You. You have no proof of that. That statement is reckless and unfair.


NFL teams and other programs are interested. He has 10 scholarship offers.
NFL teams scout everyone. It's not like he's going to get drafted. Teams want to see whether he's worth inviting to training camp. And other college teams might want him for a year if they're in a different situation. Maybe they're not in the process of building a program from the bottom up. Maybe they need a one-year stopgap. Maybe there are a whole bunch of other factors at play.


The Trustees want me to give him a shot.
I can't think of a faster way for a coach to lose the respect of his players. Oh, and I thought the Trustees weren't calling Cutcliffe and White about this?


He wants to stay at Duke. I am going to help him be the best qb he can be." I think that sort of message would be accepted by all team members who as a team want to win, because Greg may - there is a chance - help them win.
Not if that message goes against everything else Cut has been preaching since Day 1. You know, stuff like "we're going to lose this weight as a team." "We're all in this together." "Thad is our quarterback, he's your leader, and we're going to follow him." Etc.


Paulus would be the brightest qb on many teams' rosters.
In your opinion.


Folks are pretty sure he can learn the whole playbook.
Folks? Who are "folks?" And have they spent any time with a) Greg Paulus, b) Duke's playbook and c) both Greg Paulus and Duke's playbook? Because otherwise they have no idea what they are talking about.


Best case is that Paulus helps us win a few more games, I'd say you are on track there. This might mean a bowl, or a better bowl. This helps recruiting. Best case, Paulus goes onto the NFL. This helps the Duke Football Program, long-term. What about the precedent? This is a once in a lifetime deal. Duke wont sign the best high school football player in the country to a basketball scholarship anytime soon. Not much risk of history repeating itself.
I think we can both agree that such a scenario is highly unlikely, that as important as a QB is, he's just one of 22 guys and that there are significant risks in even considering such a move. From a cost/benefit analysis, the downside significantly outweights the upside.


A word about flexibility. Cut was given an instruction at Ole Miss, to make changes in his staff, impliedly as a condition to keeping his job. Same deal for Groh at UVa this year. Cut, refused and was fired. The direct cause of his firing was the inflexibility - whether rightly or wrongly. The won loss record, play calling, some drop off in recruiting were the indrect causes. (A-Tex, after I posted, saw you said the same thing, sorry for the redundancy.)

Right, but what you call "infexible," others call "loyal." He shouldn't be taking directions from the Trustees on who to start, what plays to call or what staff members to hire. That's part of the package you get with the coach. Ultimately, you can decide that you don't like that package, fire him, and get someone else. But to force him to go against his principles and then expect him to do the job you hired him to do is just wrong.

[blueprofessor]

Yes, that's the mission of any top university. That is not what has been suggested here. "Opinions" are one thing. Micromanaging and attempting to influence the selection of a starting QB through money and status, particularly when said "stakeholder" doesn't have an ounce of the expertise of the football coach, is another. Or, since you are a professor, would prefer to have alums calling you on a consistent basis to "suggest" which readings you should assign in your classes?



Have you then recanted your claim that alumni are not Duke stakeholders---hopefully following an informative briefing with a Duke employee in development, law, alumni affairs, or athletic administration?

As a professor, I welcome input from present and former students about new course material. They are,after all, stakeholders.Some of the suggestions (especially about new Harvard Business School cases and readings) have been adopted. Of course, they do not demand (heh,heh) that I use the material.Still, they care...I listen.
In dealing with stakeholders, one should listen respectfully and then do what is best for the org (students).
I have not heard of anyone penciling players to start since Huey Long and LSU in the 1930s. Bad advice normally goes in one ear and out of the other of a responsible leader(coach) like K or Cut.Boorish behavior may have a one-time audience and no more.

Best regards to all Duke stakeholders (alumni, parents donors, students, profs, employees, and boosters) !:D
Blueprofessor :)

[Inonehand]

Have you then recanted your claim that alumni are not Duke stakeholders---hopefully following an informative briefing with a Duke employee in development, law, alumni affairs, or athletic administration?

As a professor, I welcome input from present and former students about new course material. They are,after all, stakeholders.Some of the suggestions (especially about new Harvard Business School cases and readings) have been adopted. Of course, they do not demand (heh,heh) that I use the material.Still, they care...I listen.
In dealing with stakeholders, one should listen respectfully and then do what is best for the org (students).
I have not heard of anyone penciling players to start since Huey Long and LSU in the 1930s. Bad advice normally goes in one ear and out of the other of a responsible leader(coach) like K or Cut.Boorish behavior may have a one-time audience and no more.

Best regards to all Duke stakeholders (alumni, parents donors, students, profs, employees, and boosters) !:D
Blueprofessor :)

Input is one thing...what FDA was implying is Cutcliffe could get fired for not bending to the influence of stakeholders. Let's be clear, if Tom Butters had listened to the Duke Athletics stakeholders 25 years ago there would probably be no need for this website.

[CDu]

Looks like we'll get to see whether Paulus can play or not. He'll have a "chance to compete for the QB job" there next year, and he's going to take that chance.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4073430

Hopefully for him, he can win the job and do well. I have serious doubts about the ability of a kid who hasn't played in four years (and has never faced this level of competition) to come in and be effective. But hopefully for him he proves me wrong.

Regardless, I think it was the right decision by Duke. We have a very talented veteran who is familiar with the system and has shown to be pretty darn good at QB. I don't think it would have made sense for Cutcliffe to disrupt what he's building at Duke just for Paulus, and I think Paulus understands and respects that.

Hopefully Duke has a great year AND Paulus does well at Michigan.

[Chicago 1995]

Paulus would be the brightest qb on many teams' rosters.

Really? Based on what? You postulated somewhere -- maybe in this thread -- that Greg would have a great Wonderlic. That's just speculation. Further, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't necessarily translate to football smarts, and the ability to read defenses and the like that a quarterback needs.


Folks are pretty sure he can learn the whole playbook.

I can think of one "folk" who isn't. David Cutcliffe. You know, our coach? The guy who developed Eli Manning? And the guy who developed his older brother? Peyton Manning? One of the two best quarterbacks of his generation?

Cutcliffe says that it took Peyton two years to learn his playbook. That's the same Peyton Manning that's bright enough now to call his own plays, essentially, and run the Indy offense from under center.

Cutcliffe, unlike your folks, has experience teaching his playbook and teaching it successfully. He says Greg can't learn it, and I'm inclined to take his word over your baseless speculation that you will just repeat over and over and over hoping it becomes accepted as fact.


We denied him the chance to play his junior and senior year and this allowed you guys to develop.

Again, something with no basis that you've decided to repeat as though it is fact, hoping that it will be accepted as such. Taking your ludicrous suggestion as fact for the sake of argument, no one at Duke denied Greg the right to play football his junior and senior years. Greg was free to leave and transfer someplace where he could play football, and the basketball program wouldn't mind if their starting PG wasn't available until December 1, or he could have went someplace else and started over as a QB then.

If you are right, and I don't think you are, and Greg wanted to play football, what does that say about his leadership? Greg was the starting PG going into his junior year, and you're suggesting he wanted to play football, which would have caused him to miss the first six weeks of practice? For a Duke basketball team coming off its worst season in over ten years? That doesn't sound like leadership. It sounds like "boy, this hoops thing isn't working out for me, what else can I do?" That's leadership? You aren't even internally consistent.

I hope things work out for Greg, but your whole line of thought on this is completely detached from reality. If you're just a flamer trying to get a rise out of posters, you've bested me. Otherwise, check your medications. You might need to up some of the anti-psychotics.

[BlueintheFace]

Paulus will be on PTI for "five good minutes." You can see it in 15 minutes (5:40ish) or again in a bit over an hour on ESPN2.

(figured I'd start a new thread to alert the casual DBR reader. Feel free to merge when necessary)

[Classof06]

I'm a Duke alum but I was an Ohio State football fan far before I got accepted to Duke.

Greg's officially on my list..

[Bluedog]

Paulus will be on PTI's Five Good Minutes soon....

[weezie]

Please, Paulus would never play for the scum. :) Come On You Spurs!!!

Stop the press....Paulus to join the cast of "Dancing With The Stars," to take over from the dismissed Steve-O....

[weezie]

Oooooo, more of Bruce Pearl's gut coming up, too...

[formerdukeathlete]

Really? Based on what? You postulated somewhere -- maybe in this thread -- that Greg would have a great Wonderlic. That's just speculation. Further, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't necessarily translate to football smarts, and the ability to read defenses and the like that a quarterback needs.



I can think of one "folk" who isn't. David Cutcliffe. You know, our coach? The guy who developed Eli Manning? And the guy who developed his older brother? Peyton Manning? One of the two best quarterbacks of his generation?

Cutcliffe says that it took Peyton two years to learn his playbook. That's the same Peyton Manning that's bright enough now to call his own plays, essentially, and run the Indy offense from under center.

Cutcliffe, unlike your folks, has experience teaching his playbook and teaching it successfully. He says Greg can't learn it, and I'm inclined to take his word over your baseless speculation that you will just repeat over and over and over hoping it becomes accepted as fact.



Again, something with no basis that you've decided to repeat as though it is fact, hoping that it will be accepted as such. Taking your ludicrous suggestion as fact for the sake of argument, no one at Duke denied Greg the right to play football his junior and senior years. Greg was free to leave and transfer someplace where he could play football, and the basketball program wouldn't mind if their starting PG wasn't available until December 1, or he could have went someplace else and started over as a QB then.

If you are right, and I don't think you are, and Greg wanted to play football, what does that say about his leadership? Greg was the starting PG going into his junior year, and you're suggesting he wanted to play football, which would have caused him to miss the first six weeks of practice? For a Duke basketball team coming off its worst season in over ten years? That doesn't sound like leadership. It sounds like "boy, this hoops thing isn't working out for me, what else can I do?" That's leadership? You aren't even internally consistent.

I hope things work out for Greg, but your whole line of thought on this is completely detached from reality. If you're just a flamer trying to get a rise out of posters, you've bested me. Otherwise, check your medications. You might need to up some of the anti-psychotics.

Whoah, anti-psychotics, wait a minute.

I pretty well had a strong inkling that Greg would be offered a spot as a qb on a bcs conference team, that there would be this interest, partly as a result of speaking with the OC at one such school.

Once again, I got in front of an issue, not to get a rise, but to express a view to a community. Similarly, I was the first on this Board to express that it was most likely the Lacrosse players were innocent and the U mishandled the matter.

As a member of the Duke family, I shared information based in reality with a Duke community Board.

Regarding leadership, just read some of the things said about Greg by his high school coach. He was a field general out there, on his way to becoming the National High School Player of the Year.

Greg also was prohibited by Duke, by our insistence that he sign a b-ball grant, from going out for Football his first 2 years. He was not invited to join the Football team after that. Certainly he concentrated on hoops. In effect, in my colloquial quote of what Cut might say regarding this once in a lifetime deal, call it what you want. Was denied too strong a word, then change it to discouraged or not invited. One might speak with his Dad on that.

Regarding intelligence and ability to learn a playbook. That was not Dan Marino's stong suit, either, in college or for the Dolphins, so i have read. His Wonderlic was 16. How might Greg's raw intelligence be ranked among rosters of teams he might join? Lets look at traditional metrics, such as wonderlic, SATs, GPAs in light of majors pursued. Greg's GPA is whatever getting him to Academic All American as a hoops player, taking political science with a certificate / minor in Management. It may not be biomedical engineering, but he has taken challenging courses at Duke and done well.

I have to think that most folks in the profession of coaching quarterbacks in d-1 would anticipate, contrary to what Jumbo suggested in his best case, Paulus learns the playbook completely. I have to think that most and in fact all schools offering Greg think this is no problem at all, and that the transition will be more of getting there physically.

[micah75]

Thanks for the heads up. Just finished watching it. Not bad, ya know?

[RelativeWays]

I think for all parties involved, its best that Greg goes to another school to take this shot at QB. He won't have to deal with the baggage of being a well known (some would say infamous) PG at the school's star attraction basketball program. Nor does he have to deal with cries of favoritism or cowtowing to K because he gets a shot at the QB job. What he gets now is a fresh start and students from TWO universities pulling for him to succeed.
Duke football doesn't have to worry about disrupting team chemistry, angering players or robbing a pretty good QB who has earned the right to start his senior year (only FDA would disagree). Duke football also gets to avoid the P T Barnum affect of having a well known basketball player take the helm of the most important position on the football team (player wise). People have a hard enough time taking Duke football seriously as it is and I don't see who GP3 would help in that regard. Lets not squander what we earned last season, instead, lets try to build on it.

If reports are true, and Greg gets a shot at UM, then I hope he makes it big time. I hope he throws a bajillion TDs at the big house and there will be no bitter tears by me. Animosity will only rear its head if we were to play Michigan in a bowl game, in which case I hope Vinny Ray and the boys destroy Greg :D

[BlueintheFace]

Here is a bit of a summary.

How serious are you about playing football: I am pretty serious, it's one option I am seriously looking at.

Tell us about Michigan: I talked to Rodriguez and visited the school to get a feel for the program and graduate school opportunities and they expressed some interest in me.

What gives you confidence that you can play at level of Michigan: A lot of people have been asking. I've been throwing everyday and the instincs are coming back

Tell us about the Packers: The Packers started the contact. I worked out with them here at Duke

What about getting hit? It's been awhile: Well I have ben lifting and running and throwing every day. (basically avoided the question)

Yes or No. Will we see you at Michigan next year? It is an option I am looking in to. Some other schools and NFL teams have expressed interest. I am sorry I can't give you guys an answer right now.

[Kewlswim]

Hi,

I hope that Greg gets the starting job at Michigan and we meet the Wolverine's in a BCS bowl next year. That way both Greg and my beloved Blue Devils did well! I know I won't be able to root for Greg if he plays against the Blue Devils, but up and until that point in time--GO GREG!

I stand by what I wrote earlier, I like that Coach Cut is showing loyalty to the troops in place. He is implicitly saying that if you play and excel in the system you will be rewarded.

Greg might end up holding a clip-board at Michigan if he is beaten out as the starting QB. If he really cares about grad school too, wouldn't he be better off trying to go to a school like Harvard and playing football there? I don't know what grad school degree he is looking for that he can complete in one year. Education?

Greg, I forgive you for not making me your Facebook Friend. I know you are busy. :-)

GO DUKE!

[formerdukeathlete]

Hi,

I hope that Greg gets the starting job at Michigan and we meet the Wolverine's in a BCS bowl next year. That way both Greg and my beloved Blue Devils did well! I know I won't be able to root for Greg if he plays against the Blue Devils, but up and until that point in time--GO GREG!

I stand by what I wrote earlier, I like that Coach Cut is showing loyalty to the troops in place. He is implicitly saying that if you play and excel in the system you will be rewarded.

Greg might end up holding a clip-board at Michigan if he is beaten out as the starting QB. If he really cares about grad school too, wouldn't he be better off trying to go to a school like Harvard and playing football there? I don't know what grad school degree he is looking for that he can complete in one year. Education?

Greg, I forgive you for not making me your Facebook Friend. I know you are busy. :-)

GO DUKE!

Harvard is an idea. Not sure how the financial aid formula would work, and it might not work to Greg's advantage. Nonetheless, HBS, were Greg interested...not bad, to say the least. Certainly Greg does not have to finish grad school in the year he plays Football. The next year(s) would be on his dime.

[Hancock 4 Duke]

GREG PAULUS HAS CONFIRMED THAT HE WILL ENTER THE MICHIGAN ROSTER FOR THE STARTING QB JOB IN 2009!!! He will compete for the starting job in 2009. Now most threads about this could be closed, since the speculation has ended. Congratulations , Greg Paulus.

[geraldsneighbor]

GREG PAULUS HAS CONFIRMED THAT HE WILL ENTER THE MICHIGAN ROSTER FOR THE STARTING QB JOB IN 2009!!! He will compete for the starting job in 2009. Now most threads about this could be closed, since the speculation has ended. Congratulations , Greg Paulus.

Where?

[pfrduke]

Looks like we'll get to see whether Paulus can play or not. He'll have a "chance to compete for the QB job" there next year, and he's going to take that chance.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4073430

Hopefully for him, he can win the job and do well. I have serious doubts about the ability of a kid who hasn't played in four years (and has never faced this level of competition) to come in and be effective. But hopefully for him he proves me wrong.

Regardless, I think it was the right decision by Duke. We have a very talented veteran who is familiar with the system and has shown to be pretty darn good at QB. I don't think it would have made sense for Cutcliffe to disrupt what he's building at Duke just for Paulus, and I think Paulus understands and respects that.

Hopefully Duke has a great year AND Paulus does well at Michigan.

The body of the article and the headline don't seem to match. I didn't see anywhere in there where Greg said "I'm going to Michigan." And from what others have posted, it sounds like from his PTI interview that his mind is not made up.

[weezie]

Even though it will be hard to see OUR Greg wearing a Michigan shirt, I wish him nothing but success.

Go get'em Greg!!! Hail to the victor!

[BlueintheFace]

The body of the article and the headline don't seem to match. I didn't see anywhere in there where Greg said "I'm going to Michigan." And from what others have posted, it sounds like from his PTI interview that his mind is not made up.

Even more confusion. Michicgan hasn't actually offered him a scholarship. just a "chance" ... whatever that means.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090416/SPORTS0201/904160498/1361/U-M+hasn+t+offered+Greg+Paulus+a+football+scholarshi p

[MarkD83]

I was encouraged that he will get his Duke degree and the ESPN article indicated that part of Greg's decision will be based on the graduate program associated with the school he will attend.

That is the sign of an intelligent Duke graduate-to-be and we should all be proud of that.

[johaad]

GREG PAULUS HAS CONFIRMED THAT HE WILL ENTER THE MICHIGAN ROSTER FOR THE STARTING QB JOB IN 2009!!! He will compete for the starting job in 2009. Now most threads about this could be closed, since the speculation has ended. Congratulations , Greg Paulus.

Is there a link?

[bjornolf]

Yea, I didn't see it anywhere. The link on ESPN has the title "Michigan to give him shot at QB" and the tab title is "Greg Paulus says he'll compete for Michigan QB position", but if you read the article, it just says he's considering that option.

LET THE SPECULATION CONTINUE!!!

[TheBrianZoubekExperience]

He didn't commit to anything on PTI. He confirmed he has an offer to compete at Michigan but hasn't confirmed he's definetely pursuing anything in football let alone committing to Michigan.

[dukemsu]

Even more confusion. Michicgan hasn't actually offered him a scholarship. just a "chance" ... whatever that means.

http://www.detnews.com/article/20090416/SPORTS0201/904160498/1361/U-M+hasn+t+offered+Greg+Paulus+a+football+scholarshi p

Lots of misinformation on this everywhere, as noted in the above link.

If Greg goes, obviously I wish him the best at UM. I do hope he knows what he's potentially getting himself into. Along with the Governor, the CEOs of the Big 3, and Goaltender for the Red Wings, UM Quarterback is among the most scrutinized positions one can hold in Michigan. Tough media (on college football in particular) and a huge and insatiable alumni base.

Greg has never struck me as the type to shrink from a challenge, however. Best of luck to him whatever he decides. This has a long way to go before anything's for sure, it appears.

dukemsu

[Jumbo]

I think for all parties involved, its best that Greg goes to another school to take this shot at QB. He won't have to deal with the baggage of being a well known (some would say infamous) PG at the school's star attraction basketball program. Nor does he have to deal with cries of favoritism or cowtowing to K because he gets a shot at the QB job. What he gets now is a fresh start and students from TWO universities pulling for him to succeed.
Duke football doesn't have to worry about disrupting team chemistry, angering players or robbing a pretty good QB who has earned the right to start his senior year (only FDA would disagree). Duke football also gets to avoid the P T Barnum affect of having a well known basketball player take the helm of the most important position on the football team (player wise). People have a hard enough time taking Duke football seriously as it is and I don't see who GP3 would help in that regard. Lets not squander what we earned last season, instead, lets try to build on it.

If reports are true, and Greg gets a shot at UM, then I hope he makes it big time. I hope he throws a bajillion TDs at the big house and there will be no bitter tears by me. Animosity will only rear its head if we were to play Michigan in a bowl game, in which case I hope Vinny Ray and the boys destroy Greg :D

Amen. I hope Greg wins the job at Michigan, has great success and, most importantly, beats Ohio State! :)

[geraldsneighbor]

Amen. I hope Greg wins the job at Michigan, has great success and, most importantly, beats Ohio State! :)

Greg will be able to say he played in the 2 most intense College Rivalries. Wow. That'll be a trivia question for a while to come.

[Jumbo]

Harvard is an idea. Not sure how the financial aid formula would work, and it might not work to Greg's advantage. Nonetheless, HBS, were Greg interested...not bad, to say the least. Certainly Greg does not have to finish grad school in the year he plays Football. The next year(s) would be on his dime.

Greg can't play football at Harvard ... or Yale, Youngstown State or Amherst. According to this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4073430), "Paulus said he can play only for Football Bowl Subdivision teams, ruling out a move to a Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA) member."

For someone who claims to know everything, you seem to get a lot of facts wrong.

[MarkD83]

Lots of misinformation on this everywhere, as noted in the above link.

If Greg goes, obviously I wish him the best at UM. I do hope he knows what he's potentially getting himself into. Along with the Governor, the CEOs of the Big 3, and Goaltender for the Red Wings, UM Quarterback is among the most scrutinized positions one can hold in Michigan. Tough media (on college football in particular) and a huge and insatiable alumni base.

Greg has never struck me as the type to shrink from a challenge, however. Best of luck to him whatever he decides. This has a long way to go before anything's for sure, it appears.

dukemsu

the type of pressure and scrutiny you might get as a point guard on the Duke basketball team. Greg seemed to handle that situation pretty well.

[LetItBD08]

Paulus will be on PTI for "five good minutes." You can see it in 15 minutes (5:40ish) or again in a bit over an hour on ESPN2.

Audio Here (4/16): http://sports.espn.go.com/espnradio/podcast/feeds/itunes/podCast?id=2406595

He starts talking around 10:50

[weezie]

Who says Duke doesn't recruit athletes?

[formerdukeathlete]

Greg can't play football at Harvard ... or Yale, Youngstown State or Amherst. According to this article (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=4073430), "Paulus said he can play only for Football Bowl Subdivision teams, ruling out a move to a Football Championship Subdivision (formerly Division I-AA) member."

For someone who claims to know everything, you seem to get a lot of facts wrong.


Harvard is an "idea," is what i said. That nuance of NCAA regs which may preclude enrollment a division down, i dont have that cite. I also have not mentioned d-1aa in any post, as i dont think this passes the smell test for Greg, given his other options, which include giving it a shot going straight into the NFL. Harvard Business School is certainly an idea for Greg from an academic perspective, if he is thinking about an MBA. He has the grades, and should / could have the GMATs, based on typical correlations with undergrad admission criteria.

[njpduke]

Here's the video:
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4075410&categoryid=2378529

[dukie8]

Harvard is an "idea," is what i said. That nuance of NCAA regs which may preclude enrollment a division down, i dont have that cite. I also have not mentioned d-1aa in any post, as i dont think this passes the smell test for Greg, given his other options, which include giving it a shot going straight into the NFL. Harvard Business School is certainly an idea for Greg from an academic perspective, if he is thinking about an MBA. He has the grades, and should / could have the GMATs, based on typical correlations with undergrad admission criteria.

I suggest that you brush up a little more on HBS and what it takes to get in before opining any more on a subject that you clearly know very little about. First, over 97% of an incoming class has prior work experience and the 3% that didn't did a lot more in their first 22 years than just play basketball at Duke. Second, how does a 3.35 in a massively grade inflated school like Duke (this likely is in the bottom half of the class) constitute as "having the grades" when the incoming class last year had an average GPA of 3.66 (with the GPA of white males in that class being even higher)? Third, what on earth does "should / could have the GMATs, based on typical correlations with undergrad admission criteria" possibly mean? Even if you knew Paulus's SATs and high school GPA (which you don't), what correlations are you running that spit out GMAT scores (which, by the way, basically are ignored by HBS)?

[wolfpackdevil]

is it just me, or did it sound like he was saying "uh," and "um" alot?

[Cameron]

Yes, Greg did say "uh" quite a lot. That's part of his charm:)

Does anyone know if Greg has actually made Michigan his school of choice for this fall? If so, a link would be nice. I couldn't seem to find one.

I can't wait to cheer for "TSUN." I already hate Ohio State University and its fake hoops fans (it can be unbearable here in NW Ohio when the Bucks have '07-like seasons, which, fortunately, only happen once every couple decades) so it won't be too hard:D

Greg Paulus just might leave Duke as one of the school's most celebrated athletes after all. He still has tons of work to do in order to become great on the gridiron, but, if anyone can do it, it is Greg Paulus. What a wonderful story. God I love Greg.

[geraldsneighbor]

Yes, Greg did say "uh" quite a lot. That's part of his charm:)

Does anyone know if Greg has actually made Michigan his school of choice for this fall? If so, a link would be nice. I couldn't seem to find one.

I can't wait to cheer for "TSUN." I already hate Ohio State University and its fake hoops fans (it can be unbearable here in NW Ohio when the Bucks have '07-like seasons, which, fortunately, only happen once every couple decades) so it won't be too hard:D

Greg Paulus just might leave Duke as one of the school's most celebrated athletes after all. He still has tons of work to do in order to become great on the gridiron, but, if anyone can do it, it is Greg Paulus. What a wonderful story. God I love Greg.


Amen brother. I love Greg too. He such a nice guy and he deserves these breaks to fall his way. I'm pulling for you Greg!

[Edouble]

Who says Duke doesn't recruit athletes?

Maybe the same person that says we (apparently) recruited a football player to play basketball?!?!?

So was all that talk of wanting to become a basketball coach just Paulus blowing a little smoke because he wasn't sure if he could make any decent money playing basketball professionally? Obviously he's not going to Michigan for the graduate degree, so I can only assume that he's doing this:

1) In the hope that he will be able to use UM as a transitional step to the NFL.

or

2) To have one more year of fun in college.

or

3) To leave himself with a better taste in his mouth regarding his collegiate athletic career.

In any case, I'm really floored that this is the direction he's choosing. I know money is important and all, but college basketball coaches are making more and more as the years go on, and it seems like a lot of the hot, young coaches can get a huge payday fairly quickly if they have fast success. I think I'm the only one around here that thinks this QB thing is an odd move because I am not a football fan. But it really seems weird considering that he said he wants to be a basketball coach. Of course, everyone's allowed to change their mind, but it seems sort of desperate and directionless. I'm sure there's a "cool" factor that comes with playing football for Michigan, but after that, what does Paulus get out of this? If he does well, he gets the satisfaction of walking away from his college career more successful and fulfilled than if he'd ended things at Duke?

:confused:

[bjornolf]

I'm not surprised by his move at all. As a former college athlete myself, I know that as a senior, I didn't want my time playing a meaningful team sport to end. And Paulus actually PLAYED basketball for Duke, as opposed to sitting at the end of the bench in football like I did. So he's not only more talented than I am, he's also gotten a taste of the thrill of playing. If he can find a way to play a sport at the highest level for even one more minute, never mind a whole season or maybe even make a career of it, he's going to take it. Doesn't surprise me at all.

[DukieBoy]

This might have been mentioned before, but what about the fact that Paulus could get the chance to play in arguably the two best college sports rivalries. Duke-holes in basketball and Michigan-Ohio State in football. I'm pretty sure no one has had the opportunity to PLAY in both these rivalries before.

[blueprofessor]

I suggest that you brush up a little more on HBS and what it takes to get in before opining any more on a subject that you clearly know very little about. First, over 97% of an incoming class has prior work experience and the 3% that didn't did a lot more in their first 22 years than just play basketball at Duke. Second, how does a 3.35 in a massively grade inflated school like Duke (this likely is in the bottom half of the class) constitute as "having the grades" when the incoming class last year had an average GPA of 3.66 (with the GPA of white males in that class being even higher)? Third, what on earth does "should / could have the GMATs, based on typical correlations with undergrad admission criteria" possibly mean? Even if you knew Paulus's SATs and high school GPA (which you don't), what correlations are you running that spit out GMAT scores (which, by the way, basically are ignored by HBS)?

I am well aware of the Harvard B School admissions principles,having served as class secretary ,on finance boards, and as official class representative, and much of what you write is an accurate overview.The quality of the applicant pool is incredible and getting more so every year.
Getting in (12% acceptance rate) is very, very hard because the applicants have a record in college that is a much more accurate indicator of prior and future success than high school.That is what makes getting in to a very top grad school more difficult than getting into college.Fewer mistakes are made.
The fact that the yield rate is over 90% indicates again how selective the school is and the attitude that the lucky few have about entering. Compare that 92% yield to Harvard College's 80%, Yale College's 60%, Stanford's 58%, and Duke's 47%.If an applicant is fortunate enough to be accepted, he goes.Period.Stanford and Wharton and Tuck and Chicago are fine ,very fine, and HBSers considered them for a decent interval before choosing the incredible competition and remarkable classmates at HBS.

Work experience is important but the most important criterion for acceptance by far is whether the candidate projects success at the highest level of his vocation.

There were many decorated athletes in my class, including All-America players and Olympic Gold medalists, as well as a ton of Rhodes scholar winners and finalists. The thought is that highly intelligent, driven athletes are profound competitors in their professions.Few organizations follow their grads better than HBS, so the school has a finely tuned knowledge of correlation with success.

Given the circumstances, Paulus would be an ideal candidate for admittance to Harvard B. School.

Best regards---Go Paulus---Blueprofessor :)

[BD80]

From the link on the front page, it appears that Greg must obtain a waiver (which I hadn't heard of) and must find a grad school program NOT offered at Duke. I had forgotten about this requirement because it seemed as if this would be an easy thing given the variety of graduate programs and the specialization that can occur. However, leaving Duke and its array of grad studies does restrict the choices.

Never fear. Sequestered here in Michigan for 20 some years, I have been exposed to (too much of) that which is Michigan football and can report that there is a special academic track for football players, leading to the ever so valuable General Studies degree (its BS, but not a bachelors of science). There is a graduate football program available (not sure if anyone has taken it) which continues that track, for which Duke has NO counterpart anywhere in its graduate studies.

Wait for it . . .

Long Division!

Michigan has some very fine schools, fine graduate programs, and has had some fine student athletes. They have also allowed some absolute rockheads stay eligible to play football - an issue that probably won't improve under Dick Rod. Rodriguez is developing a sleazy reputation, and the maize and blue faithful are fast growing impatient.

[Bluedog]

Michigan QB Tate Forcier has some harsh words for Paulus. Not sure why he's so afraid! ;) Doesn't seem very nice to a potential future teammate.
http://www.michigandaily.com/content/2009-04-17/game-michigan-qb-tate-forcier-greg-paulus-transcript


Forcier: From what I've heard, I've been talking to coaches all morning, my position coach, Coach (Rod) Smith, he told me specifically that they have not offered him. They don't know why he would lie. They don't know the kid. They haven't offered them [...]Why would a kid like him lie to national media?


I'm not worried about it, a kid like that was good in high school, but it's nearly impossible to come back to this level and play. It might be possible, but not in the QB position.


I still highly doubt he's coming. It would be impossible [...] And from what I heard, I'm not worried about it. It ain't going to happen. By the time he would legally get here would be in the summer, and by the time he'd get here, he'd have to learn the whole playbook and get used to the speed of the game. I doubt you could even do that at the high school level, go in your senior year and try to play.

His facebook status:
i can give a damn what Paulus does. If he wants to ruin his career and come here its fine with me cuz hes about to be my backup!

It seems like people have misunderstood what Paulus has said, though. It appears that Michigan has NOT offered him a scholarship. Paulus never lied. All Paulus said was "that there is an opportunity at Michigan" - which could mean a variety of things: they have unproven QBs so he could potentially beat them out, they have a great national reputation, great academics, coach has expressed some interest, etc. It doesn't mean necessarily that Rich Rodiguez guaranteed him a scholarship, even though ESPN reported it in that way. Even if he used the word "offer" (which I don't think he did), that doesn't mean "scholarship offer." Perhaps Rod "offered" him the chance to enroll at Umich and walk-on the team. I'm just saying.

Anyways, after seeing what Forcier and other Umich football players have said, to me it doesn't seem like Umich is the right fit (even though I'd LOVE to see Paulus with the Wolverines). It seems like he'd be more welcome at Syracuse or other places....

[roywhite]

Anyways, after seeing what Forcier and other Umich football players have said, to me it doesn't seem like Umich is the right fit (even though I'd LOVE to see Paulus with the Wolverines). It seems like he'd be more welcome at Syracuse or other places....

For some perspective, Forcier has accompished nothing yet. He is an early enrolled freshman who thinks he will be UM's QB this fall. He has good credentials coming out of HS, but for one thing, is no bigger than Greg, perhaps smaller, and no great shakes as a runner either.

RichRod clearly needs help at QB. That's certainly a reason why they are involved in this discussion. Greg shouldn't be deterred by what Forcier says.

[geraldsneighbor]

Forcier seems a bit insecure, no?