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dubayuw
04-08-2009, 06:14 PM
If you don't know what the Jordan Brand Classic is, it is basically a less popular McDonald All-American game. Plumlee and Kelly are playing in it. Unlike the McDonald's game, John Wall will be playing. Also, Lamont "Momo" Jones, an undecided who we have been connected with recently, will be playing. Dan Hurley is coaching the Black Jerseys. Its on April 18 @ 8 pm EST and will be on ESPN2.

Here are the rosters:
Black Jerseys:
Kenny Boynton G
Avery Bradley G
Dominic Cheek W
DeMarcus Cousins F/C
Derrick Favors F/C
Abdul Gaddy G
Jordan Hamilton W
John Henson F/C
Lamont Jones G
Ryan Kelly F
Alex Oriakhi F/C
Durand Scott G

White Jerseys:
Keith Gallon F/C
Xavier Henry W
Marcus Jordan G
Wally Judge PF
Tommy Mason-Griffin G
Daniel Orton C
Mason Plumlee F/C
Renardo Sidney F
John Wall G
Royce White W
Jamil Wilson F
Mouphtauo Yarou F


I'm interested to see Wall after reading all of the posts about him. I wonder if he plans to decide where he is attending before this game, I hope so, im tired of the anticipation.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Will you be watching?

geraldsneighbor
04-08-2009, 07:24 PM
Yes because I am craving for hoops still! It sucks the season is over. It flies by.

roywhite
04-09-2009, 07:31 AM
Yes because I am craving for hoops still! It sucks the season is over. It flies by.

The Nike Hoops Summit is being played this Saturday 4/11 in Portland, Oregon, featuring an international team vs USA. Mason Plumlee and John Wall are on the USA team. I posted a link in the Mason Plumlee thread with an interview about the game.

It will be televised on Fox Sports South (and some other Fox regional channels, I believe) at 10:00 PM Eastern on Saturday 4/11. DirecTV channel 646.

whereinthehellami
04-09-2009, 08:11 AM
The Nike Hoops Summit is being played this Saturday 4/11 in Portland, Oregon, featuring an international team vs USA. Mason Plumlee and John Wall are on the USA team. I posted a link in the Mason Plumlee thread with an interview about the game.

It will be televised on Fox Sports South (and some other Fox regional channels, I believe) at 10:00 PM Eastern on Saturday 4/11. DirecTV channel 646.

As far as all-star type games go the Nike hoop Summit is pretty good. I think they are more competetive. Both sides really want to win. Didn't the world win a couple of years ago when Dirk was on it? Since then, it seems the US All-Stars have ratcheted up the intensity. The world is at a significant disadvantage with communication though as they usually have a couple of guys who don't speak English.

Highlander
04-09-2009, 09:02 AM
I read at one time (think it was at scout) that Wall originally planned to announce his college choice at the Jordan classic. Would be nice to finally put an end to that soap opera, one way or the other.

hsbnetwork
04-11-2009, 10:27 PM
The High School Basketball Network will be streaming live webcasts of the Jordan Brand Classic Regional & International All-Star Games on Saturday April 18th, 2009 @ 3:30pm EST & 5:30pm EST. Go to http://www.JordanBrandClassic.TV

Greg_Newton
04-12-2009, 03:39 AM
I read at one time (think it was at scout) that Wall originally planned to announce his college choice at the Jordan classic. Would be nice to finally put an end to that soap opera, one way or the other.

He said in an interview at the game today that he was hoping to narrow down his choices from the 7+ he has now by the Jordan game, and then hopefully make decision in the week or two after that. So, it looks like we've got another 2-3 weeks of fun...

FireOgilvie
04-18-2009, 08:29 PM
The game is on right now. Plumlee is doing pretty well; he had 6 or so points in the first few minutes. Ryan Kelly had a dunk. Wall had some nice assists. The game has been a typical sloppy all-star dunkfest so far.

johaad
04-18-2009, 08:33 PM
Plumlee's jersey says 24 on the front and 42 on the back. I swear this is an optical illusion. Someone back me up on this.

Lord Ash
04-18-2009, 08:36 PM
Are you sure you are not mixing him up with a Wear?

geraldsneighbor
04-18-2009, 08:36 PM
Plumlee's jersey says 24 on the front and 42 on the back. I swear this is an optical illusion. Someone back me up on this.

Yeah, I don't get it either. Mason being Mason.

johaad
04-18-2009, 08:37 PM
I'm sure. In one shot, his jersey will say 24 on the front, he turns around and the camera is still fixed on him without changing views, and it says 42.

johaad
04-18-2009, 08:38 PM
Yeah, I don't get it either. Mason being Mason.

Ok good, you see it too? It was really messing with my head.

FireOgilvie
04-18-2009, 08:40 PM
Are you sure you are not mixing him up with a Wear?

No Wears in this one. Henson is the only UNC player, which surprises me since it's the JORDAN Brand Classic.

bsktballpunk2253
04-18-2009, 09:42 PM
I'm sure. In one shot, his jersey will say 24 on the front, he turns around and the camera is still fixed on him without changing views, and it says 42.

Does that mean he gets 10 fouls? ;)

johaad
04-18-2009, 09:49 PM
And 1 lay in for numbers 24 and 42. Very nice.

BlueintheFace
04-18-2009, 09:50 PM
... when Mason gets a head of steam, Watch Out!

johaad
04-18-2009, 09:51 PM
And the announcers catch up.

ScreechTDX1847
04-18-2009, 10:18 PM
The announcers seemed convinced that Wall is going to either Kansas or Kentucky as those are the only teams they mentioned when speaking to Wall's recruitment.

This was my first time seeing him and MAN does that kid have some extra gears!

Also, Plumlee has impressed me much more than Kelly has thus far; although they will both obviously be contributors at some point in their Duke careers.

dukelifer
04-18-2009, 10:28 PM
Yeah, I don't get it either. Mason being Mason.
You mean Mason being Nosam :D

dukelifer
04-18-2009, 10:37 PM
The announcers seemed convinced that Wall is going to either Kansas or Kentucky as those are the only teams they mentioned when speaking to Wall's recruitment.

This was my first time seeing him and MAN does that kid have some extra gears!

Also, Plumlee has impressed me much more than Kelly has thus far; although they will both obviously be contributors at some point in their Duke careers.
Kelly was physically overmatched in this game. He will be a very good college player in time - but is still growing. Many of the players on the court looked more like men than boys. I was expecting Kelly to shoot a bit better- but he did not adjust well to the speed of the game. He is not where Singler was at this age.

Plumlee is very athletic and certainly held his own tonight. His upper body strength needs to be better- but he can motor down the court and handle the ball very well. He plays with intensity and is under control. He thinks he is a much better shooter than he really is. Hopefully he will keep his game very close to the hoop for a while at Duke. He could be a shot blocker in time. Plumlee can play but he, like Kelly, will need maturing as well. Both guys will be excellent college players in time. I do not, however, expect either to hit their stride for a year or two.

FireOgilvie
04-18-2009, 11:00 PM
If we get Wall, our big men are immediately going to become scoring threats again... there will be plenty of easy dunks to go around.

Devilsfan
04-19-2009, 08:26 AM
Observations from the Jordan. Just one person's opinion. The announcers had trouble focusing on the game (Vitale esk.) It is so easy to pick out a currently commited Duke recruit. One of the new recruits will probably be very good in two or three years under Coach K but doesn't seem to be quite ready for "prime time". The other recruit seems more ready for the ACC. I'm so glad we have a state of the art weight room. Wall is SPECTACULAR!!!!

Indoor66
04-19-2009, 08:56 AM
Observations from the Jordan. Just one person's opinion. The announcers had trouble focusing on the game (Vitale esk.) It is so easy to pick out a currently commited Duke recruit. One of the new recruits will probably be very good in two or three years under Coach K but doesn't seem to be quite ready for "prime time". The other recruit seems more ready for the ACC. I'm so glad we have a state of the art weight room. Wall is SPECTACULAR!!!!

I have not seen the game yet. Maybe this afternoon I can watch. Will you please give more detail as to who is who in your description of the Duke players in the game? Is your forehand as good as your backhand?

OldSchool
04-19-2009, 01:37 PM
Kelly was physically overmatched in this game. He will be a very good college player in time - but is still growing.

Agreed, and while I recognize these are just all-star games I do think Ryan did a better job in this game than he did in the McDonald's game in terms of rebounding and being in proper positioning down low.

Devilsfan
04-19-2009, 03:09 PM
Being overmatched in games with and against the best players in the country is not a crime. Everyone looked overmatched when on the court with young Mr. Wall.

Truth
04-19-2009, 04:43 PM
Being overmatched in games with and against the best players in the country is not a crime. Everyone looked overmatched when on the court with young Mr. Wall.

Sooo... what's the consensus on Mr. Wall's performance in this game?

I attended the game live, and I'll admit that I was less than taken aback in my first live viewing of Mr. Wall. It's not that he played badly, just that I didn't see him do very much to distinguish himself from the others on the court. In other words, I went in with high expectations of him being hands down the best player on the court, and those lofty expectations were not met. That said, he was the fastest person on the court -- he really is amazingly quick.

Before I get lambasted, I want to also mention that I thought John Wall did distinguish himself as the best player on the court during the Nike Hoops Summit. I was hoping to watch a similar performance at MSG, but I do realize that can't happen every game though. So, back to my original question -- what did others think here?

roywhite
04-19-2009, 04:49 PM
Sooo... what's the consensus on Mr. Wall's performance in this game?

I attended the game live, and I'll admit that I was less than taken aback in my first live viewing of Mr. Wall. It's not that he played badly, just that I didn't see him do very much to distinguish himself from the others on the court. In other words, I went in with high expectations of him being hands down the best player on the court, and those lofty expectations were not met. That said, he was the fastest person on the court -- he really is amazingly quick.

Before I get lambasted, I want to also mention that I thought John Wall did distinguish himself as the best player on the court during the Nike Hoops Summit. I was hoping to watch a similar performance at MSG, but I do realize that can't happen every game though. So, back to my original question -- what did others think here?

I agree with you; his performance in the Jordan Classic was less impressive than in the Nike Summit.

Two factors IMO:

1. The game yesterday at MSG was very unstructured, and almost unwatchable at times.
2. Mr. Wall may be getting a little weary of the recruiting process and all the attention.

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-19-2009, 04:54 PM
I went to the game last night. Not too much to add and I'd hesitate to put too much on this game. No one really seemed focused at all even for an all star game. I don't think the coaches even tried to do anything other than make subs. A lot of the big men on both teams tried to run bring the ball up, shoot deep shots, etc.

Here are my random observations:

Fat Joe was there and he is still fat and well above playing weight.

Akon's halftime performance was pretty weak.

Boynton: I thought he looked really good when he was trying and seemed to be very comfortable moving around with the ball.

Favors didn't really stick out to me until I looked at the boxscore later.

I thought Sidney looked more skilled than I thought.

Cousins looked good, I think if he can focus in college he'll be really good. He seemed to kind of just job around but when he tried to do something he looked really effective.

Kelly didn't do much and seemed like he was more interested in moving the ball around and making the right passes. When he tried to attack he didn't seem too effective. I still wonder about how he will fit in at college. I think he may struggle to guard 4s in the post or score on them but I think he's going to be a little too slow to be effective at the 3. He's big enough and a good enough scorer that I think he'll find a role but I'm still a little worried that he's pretty overrated. He had at least one good block that got the crowd up.

Xavier Henry looked really good. He looked a bit soft (compared to other swingmen) in person in that he's big and strong but could be a little leaner. He moves around the court and gets up really well though so I maybe my view was just a little distorted.

Marcus Jordan talks constantly with other players during timeouts, dead balls, etc. I was interested to see if he looked completely outmatched but he seemed to fit in fairly well. Looks a step slower in person than I expected.

Mason looked awesome. I think hes the better recruit in my opinion than Kelly and should get plenty of minutes over his brother, Z and Lance. He seemed like he had a bit of a chip on his shoulder towards the end of the game and was really working hard to score. Seems like he brings nice toughness and seemed to be one of the only people who was really interested in winning the game.

Henson looked really good. Really skinny but moves really well, is super long and very bouncy on the court. He looked pretty skilled but I don't see him playing the 3 as much as I've heard some people suggest. I think he'll def get minutes but I think he fits much better as a Aldridge type 4 man he can move and guard smaller players well if necessary than someone who can operate as a 3 on offense. I would expect an Ed Davis kind of year if not better. I really like this guy.

Wall looks awesome. This is the first time I've seen him in person and he just has an extra gear on both offense and defense. He was a bit limited just because of the nature of the game but he seemed to be one of the few players trying to win. I think in a more structured game with people looking for his passes he would have stood out more. But even if you didn't know who he was before the game he stood out as just an awesome athlete. He had a few really nice drives and quick passes. The only thing he really seemed to lack was a shot. If he can develop a shot he's going to be awesome. Even without an improved jumper I would expect him to be really good. Even though he didn't have his best game, I was pretty impressed.

...my quick impressions off the top of my head. Feel free to ask any followup questions.

TBZE

dukelifer
04-19-2009, 06:34 PM
Kelly didn't do much and seemed like he was more interested in moving the ball around and making the right passes. When he tried to attack he didn't seem too effective. I still wonder about how he will fit in at college. I think he may struggle to guard 4s in the post or score on them but I think he's going to be a little too slow to be effective at the 3. He's big enough and a good enough scorer that I think he'll find a role but I'm still a little worried that he's pretty overrated. He had at least one good block that got the crowd up.


Wall looks awesome. This is the first time I've seen him in person and he just has an extra gear on both offense and defense. He was a bit limited just because of the nature of the game but he seemed to be one of the few players trying to win. I think in a more structured game with people looking for his passes he would have stood out more. But even if you didn't know who he was before the game he stood out as just an awesome athlete. He had a few really nice drives and quick passes. The only thing he really seemed to lack was a shot. If he can develop a shot he's going to be awesome. Even without an improved jumper I would expect him to be really good. Even though he didn't have his best game, I was pretty impressed.

TBZE

Kelly is not a finished product. Yesterday he played in a game where the all bigs were excellent- a few NBA ready right now. So Kelly did look slow by comparison. But the kid is fundamentally sound and will work hard on his game to get better. He supposedly has a great work ethic and has been getting better and better as he has grown several inches in the last two years. I am not sure why you are worried he is overrated. He is who he is. He needs to get stronger to compete with elite players but he will likely have a few big games next year once he gets used to the speed. Fundamentals and being a legit 6' 10" will get you to the line multiple times a game, if nothing else.

Developing a jump shot- particularly a mid range one- is much easier said than done. Some players have it and some don't. Wall will need one to be elite- speed will only get you so far in basketball. Wall has used his speed to get points- but as he goes up levels- the speed differential closes.

dukelifer
04-19-2009, 06:42 PM
Sooo... what's the consensus on Mr. Wall's performance in this game?

I attended the game live, and I'll admit that I was less than taken aback in my first live viewing of Mr. Wall. It's not that he played badly, just that I didn't see him do very much to distinguish himself from the others on the court. In other words, I went in with high expectations of him being hands down the best player on the court, and those lofty expectations were not met. That said, he was the fastest person on the court -- he really is amazingly quick.

Before I get lambasted, I want to also mention that I thought John Wall did distinguish himself as the best player on the court during the Nike Hoops Summit. I was hoping to watch a similar performance at MSG, but I do realize that can't happen every game though. So, back to my original question -- what did others think here?

Wall was playing against much weaker guards in the Nike Summit game. There he looked great. When he competed against the best HS school guards- he was not quite as impressive. He blew past the international players- in this game he did not get to the basket with such ease until the very end when the D was getting lax.

It is interesting that the bigs in this game looked great but against more experienced international players- they looked average. All star games don't really tell you a lot except how athletic the players are- and this is a pretty impressive bunch.

One thing that struck me was how poor the shooting is in this group of players. They can all dunk- but most everyone struggled with anything outside a layup. Henry has the best mechanics on his shot- and Bradley is impressive ( I think a more complete player than Wall at this point)- but everyone else was having a hard time in the bright lights.

Saratoga2
04-19-2009, 08:28 PM
The preponderence of scoring opportunities were taking by ball hogs looking to score as many as possible and look as good as possible to the national audience. Plumlee finally got sick of what was going on and went in for a couple of scores. Kelly looked like a player who wanted to make plays and pass. We know he can shoot, but inside against 275 to 300 pound players, he was overmatched with his 205 pounds. As someone pointed out, the bigs who scored a lot in the Jordan Classic didn't look all that dominant in the Nike Classic.

I would agree that Plumlee has the best chance of taking inside minutes next year, while Kelly many sub for Singler, or if we are really depleted at guard, may be called upon to play the 3. Only time will tell the makeup of the team, and we need to have Henderson and perhaps Wall settled to determine where the team will head.

Wall looked excellent to me again. He has speed, quickness and athletic ability and sees the court so well. He is a one and doner, regardless of where he lands for one year of college.

Greg_Newton
04-20-2009, 12:03 AM
[Kelly] needs to get stronger to compete with elite players but he will likely have a few big games next year once he gets used to the speed. Fundamentals and being a legit 6' 10" will get you to the line multiple times a game, if nothing else.

Agreed... he'll be a nice player to have on our roster for the next four years. My hope is that after spending some time at Duke, he'll develop the confidence and swagger he needs to be a very good player. Right now, he is still just a kid, and coming from a very preppy private school in a weak basketball conference in NC, he is clearly not yet quite comfortable playing with and against huge, fast athletes in Rucker-Park-pickup-style contests.

I think the best evidence of this is how off his shot always way off in these games... he's a great shooter, but all of his 15ft+ shots have been way off in the two all-star games. Hopefully after going off to college and getting worshipped on the Duke campus for a little while, spending some time in the weight room, and getting used to the kind of high-talent high-intensity pace he'll see every day in practice, his abundance of natural skills and assets will begin to show in game situations.

I was glad to see a solid performance from Mason yesterday. The areas in which I hope he improves most in the next year actually are his timing and positioning on rebounding and shot blocking, rather than his offense. With his length and athleticism, he could be a Thabeet-like presence on defense if he can develop an "own the lane" mentality, and he showed flashes of it tonight. If he anywhere in the general vicinity and puts any effort into his jump, he's long enough that he can alter or block any shot that goes up near the basket. He could have had 10 blocks yesterday if he'd just gone after everything near him.

IMO, we don't need him to be an iso, back to the basket scoring threat... I think a more realistic hope is that he will eventually be a gameplan-altering defensive presence, a long and scrappy rebounder on both ends, and an intimidating finisher that scores most of his points off of teammate-or-offensive-rebound-generated dunks, with a couple face up scores thrown in if we're lucky. Once Coach K runs the occasional laziness and lack of discipline out of him, he'll be a very effective college player.

And again, I love his general attitude, and the type of toughness/swagger he showed during plays like when he took it coast to coast during crunch time and drew the foul going hard to the rim.

jv001
04-20-2009, 10:32 AM
Kelly was physically overmatched in this game. He will be a very good college player in time - but is still growing. Many of the players on the court looked more like men than boys. I was expecting Kelly to shoot a bit better- but he did not adjust well to the speed of the game. He is not where Singler was at this age.

Plumlee is very athletic and certainly held his own tonight. His upper body strength needs to be better- but he can motor down the court and handle the ball very well. He plays with intensity and is under control. He thinks he is a much better shooter than he really is. Hopefully he will keep his game very close to the hoop for a while at Duke. He could be a shot blocker in time. Plumlee can play but he, like Kelly, will need maturing as well. Both guys will be excellent college players in time. I do not, however, expect either to hit their stride for a year or two.

I basically agree with your assesment of our two recruits. Kelly just needs to add weight and strength. His shot looks good and his skill set looks fine as well. From what I've read he has really grown alot over the last 2 years and of course he will have to adjust to this. I think he plays some next year but will need to be stronger to have a great impact next year. Mason seems to more advanced and is wiry. He does not back away from contact. Alittle like Singler, but not as far along. I just hope he does not fall in love with his outside game. The anouncers said Coach K said he was in some ways like Christian Laettner. Well Christian had a pretty good point guard running the show. We don't have that luxury unless John Wall chooses Duke. But I like the comparison attitude wise. Mason may just bring that attitude to Duke and we sure need it. As for the game itself, I was b=very disappointed in that this was another "look what I can do" game. The bigs were bringing the ball up and alot of times the point guards did not even touch the ball. This type of game did not bring out the best in Wall. He needs the ball in his hands. It is evident he has the game, quickness and a desire to play defense as well. I liked the times he and Mason trapped the ball on the perimeter. Could this be a thing of the future? I hope so. Go Duke!

studdlee10
04-20-2009, 10:43 AM
Wall dominated the scrimmages and practices, where the teams were actually playing "real" basketball. The actual game in itself was pretty horrible, where everybody was out to get theirs (example: Tiny Gallon shooting a million 3s, Capel better learn to reign that in). To me, it speaks volumes that Wall wasn't hogging the ball and was actually passing to his teammates.

That said...Wall and Favors are clearly heads and shoulders above everybody else in this class. Bradley, Henson, Cousins, etc are close, but you can just see "it" with Wall and Favors. They are both truly special talents. I can promise you that if Wall goes to Duke, they'll get his shooting in order.

SupaDave
04-20-2009, 12:39 PM
Everytime I see the name "Favors" - I do a little happy dance.

Kelly and Plumlee still have a good summer and 7 months to get ready. I'm sure they'll both arrive to campus early and get indoctrinated. Then we'll get to really evaluate them (and I know you will).

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-20-2009, 12:51 PM
Kelly is not a finished product. Yesterday he played in a game where the all bigs were excellent- a few NBA ready right now. So Kelly did look slow by comparison. But the kid is fundamentally sound and will work hard on his game to get better. He supposedly has a great work ethic and has been getting better and better as he has grown several inches in the last two years. I am not sure why you are worried he is overrated. He is who he is. He needs to get stronger to compete with elite players but he will likely have a few big games next year once he gets used to the speed. Fundamentals and being a legit 6' 10" will get you to the line multiple times a game, if nothing else.

Developing a jump shot- particularly a mid range one- is much easier said than done. Some players have it and some don't. Wall will need one to be elite- speed will only get you so far in basketball. Wall has used his speed to get points- but as he goes up levels- the speed differential closes.

I hope you're right on Kelly. To be clear I don't think hes horrible or anything, just not sure that he's the 11th best recruit or whatever his ranking is. Hopefully he turns out to be good but right now I'm a lot higher on Plumlee.

Agree on the jumpshot for Wall. He might never become a great shooter but I think Wall will be able to do a lot even if he has just a decent jumper.

dukelifer
04-20-2009, 03:36 PM
I hope you're right on Kelly. To be clear I don't think hes horrible or anything, just not sure that he's the 11th best recruit or whatever his ranking is. Hopefully he turns out to be good but right now I'm a lot higher on Plumlee.

Agree on the jumpshot for Wall. He might never become a great shooter but I think Wall will be able to do a lot even if he has just a decent jumper.

Rankings always puzzle me- He did not rank himself. So-called experts or expert systems ranked him. Rankings seems to be a measure of how good the ranker is than the rankee. Knowing what you know now, would you rank these players the same as their senior season high school Recruiting Services Consensus Index rankings?

2007 rankings

Nick Calathes - #10
Blake Griffin- #16
Jamelle Horne - #22
DeJuan Blair - #40


2006 rankings

Wayne Ellington #8
Derrick Caracter #17
Hasheem Thabeet #64
Jodie Meeks #57


2002

Sean Dockery #21
Elijah Ingram #28
Brandon Roy #45
Deron Williams #48

And of course

1998

Ronald Curry #6
Tayshaun Prince #12
Dane Fife #14
Corey Maggette #16
Richard Jefferson #38

TheBrianZoubekExperience
04-20-2009, 04:00 PM
Sure, ranking is far from an exact science. Thats not exactly a revelation. There are plenty of examples where the rankings are way off. If you want a particularily bad case you could have pointed out that ESPN had Taylor King two spots ahead of Blake Griffin.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espnu100?&season=2007

Naturally the rankings aren't going to be perfect predictors of a player's college success, but thats the case in a lot of rankings. The NBA draft is far from a perfect predictor, preseason polls in many sports are often wrong, etc, etc. People doing the rankings try to do the best they can.

All I've said is that I think Kelly may struggle and that he looks a little overrated to me from what I've seen. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be good but just that at this point I've been a bit dissapointed when I've watched him. I've been higher on Plumlee for awhile and think he's the stronger recruit and that Kelly is probably ranked too high IMO. As I said, as a Duke fan, I hope I'm dead wrong and he turns out to be awesome.

Since you seem to be high on him, where would you rank him based on everything you've seen? Top 20? Top 10? Top 5?

dukelifer
04-20-2009, 04:12 PM
Sure, ranking is far from an exact science. Thats not exactly a revelation. There are plenty of examples where the rankings are way off. If you want a particularily bad case you could have pointed out that ESPN had Taylor King two spots ahead of Blake Griffin.

http://insider.espn.go.com/ncb/recruiting/tracker/espnu100?&season=2007

Naturally the rankings aren't going to be perfect predictors of a player's college success, but thats the case in a lot of rankings. The NBA draft is far from a perfect predictor, preseason polls in many sports are often wrong, etc, etc. People doing the rankings try to do the best they can.

All I've said is that I think Kelly may struggle and that he looks a little overrated to me from what I've seen. That doesn't mean he won't turn out to be good but just that at this point I've been a bit dissapointed when I've watched him. I've been higher on Plumlee for awhile and think he's the stronger recruit and that Kelly is probably ranked too high IMO. As I said, as a Duke fan, I hope I'm dead wrong and he turns out to be awesome.

Since you seem to be high on him, where would you rank him based on everything you've seen? Top 20? Top 10? Top 5?

Well I have not seen every player in the class- so I cannot really rank. It was interesting looking at that 1998 class- wow something happened in the basketball universe that year. I can probably rank him in terms of current Duke players. I would put him slightly ahead of Thomas and Miles Plumlee and well below Singler and Scheyer. He is probably like Nolan Smith as a Freshman in terms of what sort of impact he might have- but with a different skillset.

As for ranking against current UNC players- I would put him below Thompson, Davis and maybe Zeller and ahead of Drew and Ginyard. As for their rookies, he is below Henson and above the Wear kids.

He is definitely not a Brand or a Williams in terms of instant impact. If he can approach a Freshman Dunleavy- that would be very good.

FireOgilvie
04-20-2009, 04:57 PM
I don't think you can tell much about Ryan Kelly from the McDonald's or Jordan Brand games. He isn't the type of player that shines in those kinds of games. He also looked uncomfortable in that style of play. I wish he would have played in the Nike Hoops Summit... that game was much more similar to a college game. He played in an international competition last year with Mason and the Wears and he did very well. As far as being overrated, I think it depends on how you look at rankings. Scout has him 11th and Rivals has him 20th. I think that if you look at potential, Kelly deserves a high ranking. He's 6'10", he can handle the ball like a guard, and he can shoot. If you base it off of immediate impact, 11 is too high. He needs to get much stronger to be able to play near the basket and become a good rebounder in the ACC.

I really hope that both Kelly and Plumlee come into the first practices and assert themselves. The more minutes they play next year, the higher the ceiling for a tournament run.

DUKIE V(A)
04-20-2009, 09:35 PM
Wall would make us a National Championship contender with or without G. He's THAT good. He seemed happy to set up others for much of the game, but seemed to pick up his own offense late in the game. He's a special talent and will do well in any system. I hope he sees what we see in Duke (and the potential for outstanding off the court development), but he will do well basketball-wise anywhere.

Plumlee looks very, very good. He will play a ton next year and I expect him to start the majority of the season. Love his aggressiveness.

Kelly is going to be a solid player for Duke, especially when his body develops. Seems like a smart player.

We have done well to get Plumlee and Kelly. I would love to add Wall and/or Bledsoe.

dukelifer
04-20-2009, 10:32 PM
Sure, ranking is far from an exact science. Thats not exactly a revelation. There are plenty of examples where the rankings are way off. If you want a particularily bad case you could have pointed out that ESPN had Taylor King two spots ahead of Blake Griffin.



Here are some notable real misses

Toney Douglas #100, 2004 All-ACC First Team
Gilbert Arenas #99 1999 3 time NBA All-Star
Emeka Okafur #99 2001 2nd pick, Rookie of the year
Luke Harangody #83 2006 Big East Player of the year

COYS
04-20-2009, 11:45 PM
Emeka Okafur #99 2001 2nd pick, Rookie of the year

That was the 2004 draft when he broke our collective hearts with a pretty nice display in the national semifinal. But your point is well taken. I do think that people who are rated that low who blossom into stars and make it into the NBA, however, are more the exception, these days. Most recruits are pretty well scouted by the time they make it to college, even if a few slip through the cracks.

cape cod
04-21-2009, 01:14 PM
This is fun off-season stuff. Can you think of any Dukies who were brought in with lesser rankings and ended up being "super stars"? I know the task is made more difficult since we rarely "bottom fish", but who have been some of our biggest pleasant surprises? I'm coming up empty, but I've got a bunch of other things on my mind right now. I know there must be some. Maybe Brickey? Thomas Hill? Brian Davis? I realize that they may only have been really good college players and not super-stars.

Classof06
04-21-2009, 01:32 PM
Plumlee looks very, very good. He will play a ton next year and I expect him to start the majority of the season. Love his aggressiveness.

I agree wholeheartedly. There are people saying Plumlee will take time to develop and I agree with that to a large degree. But between the McD's and Jordan games, I've seen enough to know that Mason Plumlee is better than any frontcourt player we had last year.

And I expect him to be the starting center come next season. Whether it's fair to expect that from him or not is another debate, but unless Zoubek makes a quantum leap this offseason or Miles decides he's not going to let his little brother get shine before he does, Mason is going to start next year.

dukelifer
04-21-2009, 03:42 PM
I agree wholeheartedly. There are people saying Plumlee will take time to develop and I agree with that to a large degree. But between the McD's and Jordan games, I've seen enough to know that Mason Plumlee is better than any frontcourt player we had last year.

And I expect him to be the starting center come next season. Whether it's fair to expect that from him or not is another debate, but unless Zoubek makes a quantum leap this offseason or Miles decides he's not going to let his little brother get shine before he does, Mason is going to start next year.

I expect the brother effect will be in full force here. I expect Miles and Mason will push each other a lot over the summer and into the school year. Mason will come in much better prepared for his first season than most Frosh as will benefit from some tutoring by Miles on what K wants in a big man.

BD80
04-21-2009, 03:44 PM
Ryan's game may not be suited to the "all-star" game format. When he played for the US team, he was a starter, ahead of Mason.

If G leaves, that will open up playing time at the "3". Even though we have Scheyer, Eliot and Nolan as starters, we will need someone to guard the wing to give the 3 starters a rest. Kyle may be suited to play stretches at the wing, but Ryan may win minutes there, which would allow Kyle to stay at the 4 if the other bigs don't step up. He has the offensive skills to play the wing, but the key will be whether he can defend the wing. His length will give him an advantage, but he will still need the quickness. Ryan's rebounding from the wing would help, and he could turn out to be a really good weak side defender.

It has also been postulated that Olek is to be used as a wing more than a post player. With his athleticism, that adds some interesting possibilities.