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gotham devil
04-08-2009, 01:43 AM
http://www.zagsblog.com/2009/04/06/josh-pastner-to-memphis/#more-14617

Selected the University of Central Florida over Stanford and Iowa

jesus_hurley
10-22-2009, 03:22 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4585723


A fight over the shoes Michael Jordan's son will wear at the University of Central Florida could cost the school as much as $3 million.

allenmurray
10-22-2009, 03:26 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4585723

Jordan wraped an American flag around himself at the Olympics - not to show his patriotism, but to hide the Reebok logos on the uniforms due to his deal with Nike. What tiny little bit of respect I had left for him after his "Republicans buy sneakers too" comment I lost then.

Obviously little Jordan has inherited his father's "I'm bigger than the program/team" attitude.

Indoor66
10-22-2009, 03:32 PM
If I was in charge at UCF he would wear the team shoes or hit the road. This Jordan is not that big a deal.

Newton_14
10-22-2009, 03:37 PM
If I was in charge at UCF he would wear the team shoes or hit the road. This Jordan is not that big a deal.

Bingo!

"You want to wear pops shoes? Fine. Transfer to a Nike school that thinks they need you."

Somebody may need to clue this kid in on the fact that while he may have pops genes, he ain't got pops game....

FireOgilvie
10-22-2009, 03:53 PM
I really don't blame Marcus. His father has his own shoe. Why the heck would he NOT wear them? If he wears adidas, he is effectively endorsing his father's shoe company's arch-nemesis. UCF is not going to lose any money. I think this is overblown. My guess is he will just have to cover the Jordan logo with tape. Players refuse to wear the school sponsored brand all the time, but none of them are Michael Jordan's son, which is the only reason we are hearing about this.

JaMarcus Russell
10-22-2009, 04:20 PM
Players refuse to wear the school sponsored brand all the time, but none of them are Michael Jordan's son, which is the only reason we are hearing about this.

Really? Isn't the whole point of brand sponsorship to make every player on the team wear shoes/shirts/shorts from that particular brand? That's why Nike, Adidas, and Under Armor put up so much money in the college game.

mph
10-22-2009, 04:25 PM
Bingo!

"You want to wear pops shoes? Fine. Transfer to a Nike school that thinks they need you."

Somebody may need to clue this kid in on the fact that while he may have pops genes, he ain't got pops game....

I suspect UCF is worried more about pops' deep pockets than Marcus' game. You don't easily tell a kid to hit the road when his dad could pay for any number of improvements to your facilities.

speedevil2001
10-22-2009, 05:19 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4585723

daddy can cover the difference

Indoor66
10-22-2009, 05:22 PM
daddy can cover the difference

I would hope that daddy will tell him to wear the d____ shoes and get on with the program. :mad:

DukieInKansas
10-22-2009, 05:43 PM
Didn't they know what shoes the school used before the letter of intent was signed? I've never gone through the recruiting system but I would think it would be a topic that might come up - especially if the recruit's father has his own line of shoes.

Regarding the Olympics, I thought it made Nike look bad that they wouldn't let MJ out of the contract for that brief a period of time. (Assuming Nike was approached on the subject.) They could have used it as a PR campaign - in the spirit of the Olympics and team unity, they released MJ from his contract for the duration of the Olympics.

Blueequalslife23
10-22-2009, 06:56 PM
Is Illinois a Nike School?

JaMarcus Russell
10-22-2009, 07:17 PM
Is Illinois a Nike School?

Yes, they have Nike uniforms for both basketball and football.

Newton_14
10-22-2009, 11:27 PM
I suspect UCF is worried more about pops' deep pockets than Marcus' game. You don't easily tell a kid to hit the road when his dad could pay for any number of improvements to your facilities.

And that of course is the other option. Dad can buyout the current contract and get a Nike contract in place.

mph
11-04-2009, 11:44 PM
Marcus wore AJs in an exhibition game and Adidas announced they won't renew their contract with UCF. (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4623688)

Over/Under on how long before UCF announces a deal with Nike?

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-05-2009, 12:08 AM
He needs to be a team player and wear the team shoes and stop complaining.

juise
11-05-2009, 12:50 AM
Someone posted a link to a podcast (http://www.blogtalkradio.com/ncaahoops/2009/10/26/Jay-Bilas-of-ESPN-is-guest) that featured Jay Bilas last week. The second half of the podcast featured a UCF asistant coach who went into a significant level of detail about the Marcus Jordan situation. He was adamant that they checked with Adidas before Marcus came to UCF and Adidas sad that they would be able to work something out. The coach did his best to take the focus off of Marcus Jordan because the school told him that he would be able to wear a Jordan shoe.

Of course, he also said that he didn't think the situation would compromise the school's relationship with Adidas... and that apparently isn't true. It will be interesting to see what happens next. It seems like UCF is an athletic program "on the rise" (to borrow a Duke football motto that turned out to be a misnomer), with two new venues and a huge student body. I would think that Adidas would want to figure out a way to make it work. I wonder if a Nike partnership is on the horizon.

Ohiobobcat204
11-05-2009, 01:59 AM
I for one think this is absolutely rediculous. I mean come on, the kid knew that they were an Addidas school and yet still signed with them. If it was that big of a deal then he should have gone somewhere else. Most kids would simply be told "shut up and play" by the athletic department if they whined and complained like this. I dont think that just because he is Jordans son he has a right to do this. If the school caves to his wishes, they deserve to lose every game. That just sets a negative message to future recruits who might want to get the university to change something. Chances are they are going to get shut down and it will clearly show that the university cares more about the wishes of certain athletes than it does for others. Just lace up whatever shoe they give you and play ball kid, its an honor to be playing in the NCAA whether you are wearing Nike, Addidas, sketchers or sandals.

mj2345
11-05-2009, 12:52 PM
Apparently Marcus discussed this with the program before he committed. He let the staff know that wearing the jordan brand shoes was important to him and he was told it would be a non issue. One addidas got word he was wearing air jordans they flipped thier lid and made a huge example out of him. I feel bad for the kid.

CEF1959
11-05-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't know what verbal assurances who made to whom before, but the news report this morning was that Marcus wore his Nikes in an exhibition game last night, and Adidas cancelled its $3M sponsorship deal with UCF.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2009/11/marcus-jordan-keeps-his-dads-nikes-ucf-loses-3m-adidas-deal/1

I doubt it's over. Either Nike or Adidas will end up cutting a check to UCF. Maybe a little of both.

CameronDuke
11-05-2009, 06:43 PM
Marcus Jordan is no star player so in my opinion, wear the Adidas shoes and if Michael Jordan wants to cut UCF a deal for their basketball program in terms of hooking them up with Nike for a reduced price sponsorship, that is the only way I would approve of Marcus wearing Nike/Jordan. Does Marcus think that the Jordan shoes are going to help him in warm ups? That is the only time he is going to be seeing the floor, so I guess he feels he will look better running through the layup lines and pregame shoot around in Jordans. Personally, when I played collegiate sports, I took what my coaches gave me. I was a walk-on so the last thing my coaches wanted to hear was that my shoes weren't a particular brand. Sounds like a kid that has been catered to his whole life and gotten what he wanted for as long as he can remember. I realize his dad has his own brand of shoes, but he needs to put his team first in this one. They're just shoes. He can still wear Jordan shoes, clothes, cologne, etc. off of the court, but if I were one of his teammates, I would think of him as a prima donna after this incident. Team first.

grossbus
11-05-2009, 08:00 PM
he scored 1 pt last night. :)

juise
11-05-2009, 08:03 PM
he scored 1 pt last night. :)

Not bad. So his presence at the school is costing, on average, $3 million per point (+tuition/room/board). ;)

That is... until Nike swooshes in to save the day.

SupaDave
11-05-2009, 08:13 PM
Marcus Jordan is no star player so in my opinion, wear the Adidas shoes and if Michael Jordan wants to cut UCF a deal for their basketball program in terms of hooking them up with Nike for a reduced price sponsorship, that is the only way I would approve of Marcus wearing Nike/Jordan. Does Marcus think that the Jordan shoes are going to help him in warm ups? That is the only time he is going to be seeing the floor, so I guess he feels he will look better running through the layup lines and pregame shoot around in Jordans. Personally, when I played collegiate sports, I took what my coaches gave me. I was a walk-on so the last thing my coaches wanted to hear was that my shoes weren't a particular brand. Sounds like a kid that has been catered to his whole life and gotten what he wanted for as long as he can remember. I realize his dad has his own brand of shoes, but he needs to put his team first in this one. They're just shoes. He can still wear Jordan shoes, clothes, cologne, etc. off of the court, but if I were one of his teammates, I would think of him as a prima donna after this incident. Team first.

I think this is a bit presumptious. Marcus is a D-1 talent by most recruiting standards. His father is MJ, folks are making it a big deal but this is exactly what MJ was talking about during his Hall of Fame speech.

Guess what? There's a HIGH probability that Marcus has never worn anything but Jordans on the court. It's easy to see - go check his high school pictures. I mean seriously, if my dad was Versace do you think I'd wear Gucci? Louis Vutton maybe - but never Gucci.

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/10/yep_those_were_nike_air_jordan.html

Marcus is a better athlete than Jeff and Jeff is a much better athlete than you think. Marcus is a kid wanting to wear his family crest - I mean, how in the world can you blame the kid? The coaches most definitely knew who the parents were.

And let's be honest here, UCF is on the rise and would you TRULY want to be the coach to let Marcus Jordan transfer and he turns out to be something faintly familiar to his father? Wouldn't go to well with alumni - especially those that wanted to hob nob with the pops.

Adidas is getting dropped left and right. Nike is dominant and Under Armor is making one of the strongest athletic pushes I've seen in years. This may be just another way for Adidas to bow out gracefully and save a little money.

I know many of you are young but I remember when Duke switched from Adidas to Nike. The Adidas Duke wore in 91-92 were some of the sweetest shoes ever made. But when Duke was ready for the "big time" - Nike came running.

Something tells me it wont take long to get those boys in some Nike gear. Jordan Brand already sponsors N.C. A&T, UNC, Cal, Cincy, St. Johns, and Georgetown. UCF seems to fit that list nicely and would be Jordan Brand's invasion into Florida. Interesting.

CameronDuke
11-05-2009, 08:35 PM
I think this is a bit presumptious. Marcus is a D-1 talent by most recruiting standards. His father is MJ, folks are making it a big deal but this is exactly what MJ was talking about during his Hall of Fame speech.

Guess what? There's a HIGH probability that Marcus has never worn anything but Jordans on the court. It's easy to see - go check his high school pictures. I mean seriously, if my dad was Versace do you think I'd wear Gucci? Louis Vutton maybe - but never Gucci.

http://www.masslive.com/sports/index.ssf/2009/10/yep_those_were_nike_air_jordan.html

Marcus is a better athlete than Jeff and Jeff is a much better athlete than you think. Marcus is a kid wanting to wear his family crest - I mean, how in the world can you blame the kid? The coaches most definitely knew who the parents were.

And let's be honest here, UCF is on the rise and would you TRULY want to be the coach to let Marcus Jordan transfer and he turns out to be something faintly familiar to his father? Wouldn't go to well with alumni - especially those that wanted to hob nob with the pops.

Adidas is getting dropped left and right. Nike is dominant and Under Armor is making one of the strongest athletic pushes I've seen in years. This may be just another way for Adidas to bow out gracefully and save a little money.

I know many of you are young but I remember when Duke switched from Adidas to Nike. The Adidas Duke wore in 91-92 were some of the sweetest shoes ever made. But when Duke was ready for the "big time" - Nike came running.

Something tells me it wont take long to get those boys in some Nike gear. Jordan Brand already sponsors N.C. A&T, UNC, Cal, Cincy, St. Johns, and Georgetown. UCF seems to fit that list nicely and would be Jordan Brand's invasion into Florida. Interesting.

I still think if Marcus wants his teammates to respect him (and not think that he is a college player solely because his father is MJ) he should keep his mouth shut and wear Adidas. Just work hard and prove you belong. He seems so high maintenance by going through this whole ordeal. They're shoes my man, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson wore what their coaches told them in college and Marcus Jordan couldn't hold the jock strap of those two guys. Really, it doesn't make a difference how highly rated or talented he is, players shouldn't demand what shoes they want unless they are professional players under contract. For what it is worth, though, Marcus was a 3 star recruit coming out of high school, so like I said, he won't see the floor much during the season. If/when he does, I highly doubt he will have much effect for UCF.

Hey, but he can rock those Jordan's nicely on the bench!

J.Blink
11-05-2009, 08:37 PM
My question is, does anybody on earth really care what shoes different athletes wear? I guess this is just part of branding I'm baffled by...

SupaDave
11-05-2009, 10:22 PM
I still think if Marcus wants his teammates to respect him (and not think that he is a college player solely because his father is MJ) he should keep his mouth shut and wear Adidas. Just work hard and prove you belong. He seems so high maintenance by going through this whole ordeal. They're shoes my man, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson wore what their coaches told them in college and Marcus Jordan couldn't hold the jock strap of those two guys. Really, it doesn't make a difference how highly rated or talented he is, players shouldn't demand what shoes they want unless they are professional players under contract. For what it is worth, though, Marcus was a 3 star recruit coming out of high school, so like I said, he won't see the floor much during the season. If/when he does, I highly doubt he will have much effect for UCF.

Hey, but he can rock those Jordan's nicely on the bench!

To be honest, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson are technically part of the problem considering they are two of the first small group of athletes to even have their own shoe endorsements. Their time is not Marcus' time. Marcus' time is OJ Mayo's time. See the difference? It's not too many coaches out there who can tell or who even WOULD tell their players to sit down, shut-up, and play. Especially when you have a kid like Marcus who is a decent kid by all accounts.

I'm sure Marcus fits in just fine with his teammates. I've heard nothing to state otherwise. His teammates probably want Jordans TOO. Besides these kids have been on the circuit, free shoes are free shoes - and I know for a fact that they like Nike and Jordans are like icing on the cake.

I don't know if you just really want to try and demean Marcus but based on your personal statements it seems like you may have a little too much vested in this. Show me Marcus Jordan actually being a bad teammate and you might have a little more steam with your argument.

Duvall
11-05-2009, 10:27 PM
Show me Marcus Jordan actually being a bad teammate and you might have a little more steam with your argument.

Wait, costing the athletic department $3 million doesn't count as being a bad teammate?

CameronBornAndBred
11-05-2009, 10:35 PM
And let's be honest here, UCF is on the rise and would you TRULY want to be the coach to let Marcus Jordan transfer and he turns out to be something faintly familiar to his father?
No, I'd want to be the coach that proves he's in control of his team instead of pandering to his team's rich parents. UCF handled the situation wrong from the get go, it should have never even been allowed to be an issue. I doubt daddy will replace the 3 mil voluntarily, but even if he did, he couldn't replace the lost respect from his son's teammates.

SupaDave
11-05-2009, 10:51 PM
Wait, costing the athletic department $3 million doesn't count as being a bad teammate?

The school could actually MAKE money in this process...

Duvall
11-05-2009, 10:56 PM
The school could actually MAKE money in this process...

"Could" doesn't put gas in the bus for the cross-country team.

And even if it does work out for UCF, I'm sure everyone there appreciates having a benchwarming freshman unilaterally arrange for the replacement of the athletic department's biggest contract. Seriously, who does this kid think he is?

Welcome2DaSlopes
11-05-2009, 11:10 PM
Seriously, who does this kid think he is?

The son of Micheal Jordan. Still this to me is stupid and selfish of him to do. I don't care if he was the #1 recruit out of high school, he doesn't have the right to refuse to wear the team shoes which they have UNDER CONTRACT just because of who his father is.

CameronDuke
11-05-2009, 11:19 PM
To be honest, Larry Bird and Magic Johnson are technically part of the problem considering they are two of the first small group of athletes to even have their own shoe endorsements. Their time is not Marcus' time. Marcus' time is OJ Mayo's time. See the difference? It's not too many coaches out there who can tell or who even WOULD tell their players to sit down, shut-up, and play. Especially when you have a kid like Marcus who is a decent kid by all accounts.

I'm sure Marcus fits in just fine with his teammates. I've heard nothing to state otherwise. His teammates probably want Jordans TOO. Besides these kids have been on the circuit, free shoes are free shoes - and I know for a fact that they like Nike and Jordans are like icing on the cake.

I don't know if you just really want to try and demean Marcus but based on your personal statements it seems like you may have a little too much vested in this. Show me Marcus Jordan actually being a bad teammate and you might have a little more steam with your argument.

I'm not trying to demean the kid, heck he is a student-athlete in college, not a professional. I am saying, though, that he ought to focus on making a name for himself at the collegiate level rather than riding the coattails of his father. If I were one of his teammates, I would definitely think he was a prima donna for wearing his own type of shoes. The point of team shoes in the first place is for everyone to wear the same type/brand/form of shoes for cohesiveness and togetherness. His actions make him seem like he thinks he is bigger than the team and is selfish. But hey, like I said, he will look good on the bench in Jordans!

And the only thing I have against Marcus is he is the son of a Tar Heel!;)

El_Diablo
11-06-2009, 12:01 AM
The school could actually MAKE money in this process...

Why in the world would Nike offer more than $3 million for the endorsement? No other company will touch UCF if it can't get exclusive rights...Nike is the ONLY option if this punk continues to get his way.

moonpie23
11-06-2009, 12:11 AM
i'd really like to know what advice his dad is giving him.

1. Son, you should accept the team's concract and do as the coach and administration tell you to do.

2. If i see anything on your feet other than nike, i'm gonna whomp you hard !

3. ______________________________

El_Diablo
11-06-2009, 12:34 AM
I don't really for sorry for UCF though. The coach had a chance to man up (by keeping Marcus in the locker room when he refused to wear the team shoes), but he didn't do it. If the UCF athletics department is willing to accept this type of player discipline, then it should be willing to accept the consequences.

jesus_hurley
11-06-2009, 12:46 AM
No, I'd want to be the coach that proves he's in control of his team instead of pandering to his team's rich parents. UCF handled the situation wrong from the get go, it should have never even been allowed to be an issue. I doubt daddy will replace the 3 mil voluntarily, but even if he did, he couldn't replace the lost respect from his son's teammates.

All depends on the hand he's dealt
:D

Ohiobobcat204
11-06-2009, 01:47 AM
The school could actually MAKE money in this process...


ohhh i see. So because they COULD make more than 3 million(which is not only unlikely but quite doubtful) that makes him a good addition to the program? NO. His actions are 100 percent selfish and not thinking about the team/school. I mean, he just lost them 3 MILLION. Let him wear his jordans 335 days a year, but in the 30 or so days hes on the floor wearing the Addidas sponsored UCF jersey, wear the shoes given to you. Play the game.

theAlaskanBear
11-06-2009, 08:01 AM
I blame the university, and the shoe company. Not the KID.

Dude is 18 yrs old. Hes not a basketball star. Let him wear his own shoes! The university knew about this when he came to UCF.

You guys are all calling this kid a punk, but since when it is a RIGHT that universities get to make money off of their students?. Do any of those kids get paid for wearing that gear? No, the university does. Where are Marcus Jordan's rights as AN AMATEUR athlete, and as a student. He's not a professional, he's not playing for a contract or has endorsements....why should he be obligated to do something not related to playing basketball for other people to make money?

These shoe brands are NOT a part of basketball. They are a part of commercialization and branding. Its tangential to playing basketball. No student should be forced to wear a brand so the school can make a I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this.I'm a real wanker for saying this. ton of money.

But regardless of those views, its still UCF's fault, not Marcus. They knew coming in there would be an issue and they recruited him anyway. Its on their backs not Marcus.

whereinthehellami
11-06-2009, 08:19 AM
Daddy will come to the rescue and UCF will get a nice Nike contract. Then UCF will go back to being a forgotten shack down in the swamp of Central Florida. And Markus, he will go back to being the heir apparent wannabe, minus his 15 minutes of fame....which he got over his dad's shoes!

moonpie23
11-06-2009, 08:35 AM
wearing the shoe of the school's choosing is no different than wearing the uniforms of the school's choosing.

it IS the kid's fault. Kid needs to play for the school BY The rules set BY the school. If he can't come on and be a team player, let him go somewhere else.

CEF1959
11-06-2009, 08:41 AM
I'm not going to rip on Marcus, the coaching staff, or Adidas. But I do feel sorry for the rest of the team. P.J. Gaynor is a 6-10 forward who was the team's high scorer with 18 points in 22 minutes of play. Marcus Jordan scored one point on 0-3 shooting in 23 minutes of play. And guess who gets all the press?

I can just imagine what the other guys are thinking: "Crap, I was afraid of this when they inked him."

Highlander
11-06-2009, 08:52 AM
Marcus Jordan is no star player so in my opinion, wear the Adidas shoes and if Michael Jordan wants to cut UCF a deal for their basketball program in terms of hooking them up with Nike for a reduced price sponsorship, that is the only way I would approve of Marcus wearing Nike/Jordan. Does Marcus think that the Jordan shoes are going to help him in warm ups? That is the only time he is going to be seeing the floor, so I guess he feels he will look better running through the layup lines and pregame shoot around in Jordans. Personally, when I played collegiate sports, I took what my coaches gave me. I was a walk-on so the last thing my coaches wanted to hear was that my shoes weren't a particular brand. Sounds like a kid that has been catered to his whole life and gotten what he wanted for as long as he can remember. I realize his dad has his own brand of shoes, but he needs to put his team first in this one. They're just shoes. He can still wear Jordan shoes, clothes, cologne, etc. off of the court, but if I were one of his teammates, I would think of him as a prima donna after this incident. Team first.

Per the earlier posts, it looks like Marcus asked about wearing Nike's BEFORE he signed, and the school told him it would not be a problem. Therefore, I don't see him as being a prima-donna or anything; just following through on the request he made before signing with the school.

As to your other point, if "they are just shoes," then why is it such a big deal if he wears Nike instead of Adidas? It's not like Marcus gets any kind of additional compensation or benefit out of wearing Adidas. Sure he gets free shoes, but I'm sure he can get all the free "air jordans" he wants. Meanwhile, the school pockets $3million. Doesn't seem like such a great deal to sell out your dad's company for a free pair of sneakers.

I applaud whoever promised Marcus that he could wear Nike's for sticking to their word rather than caving.

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 08:59 AM
I'm not going to rip on Marcus, the coaching staff, or Adidas. But I do feel sorry for the rest of the team. P.J. Gaynor is a 6-10 forward who was the team's high scorer with 18 points in 22 minutes of play. Marcus Jordan scored one point on 0-3 shooting in 23 minutes of play. And guess who gets all the press?

I can just imagine what the other guys are thinking: "Crap, I was afraid of this when they inked him."

But would you have even CARED how many points a player from UCF scored before we were talking about Marcus' shoes?

We're talking about Air Jordans here people!! LOL!

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 09:16 AM
Now I'm not saying they'll go to Nike but it IS a possiblity...


The problem is UCF is in the final year of its contract with adidas that requires coaches and athletes to use the company's apparel and equipment. UCF says its five-year deal with adidas ends June 30, 2010.

There have been media reports that UCF is negotiating a new deal that could be worth up to $3 million and last up to six years.

UCF KNEW so obviously his teammates don't see it as a big deal. Would YOU expect Marcus Jordan not to wear ummm, a shoe with HIS last name on it?


UCF said in a statement Thursday that adidas was aware of the situation during contract renewal discussions. The university says it was "led to believe that there would be a workable solution to a unique situation."

I'm just saying, Nike is throwing some big bucks around. Compare the above to THIS... http://alumni.unc.edu/article.aspx?sid=6840

UCF is only getting $500K max per year. Nike could give them a million in their sleep. You would see UCF's schedule change overnight - especially if Marcus has a solid freshmen year. In the swamp or not, there's a lot of room for growth.

Just look at this schedule - http://ucfathletics.cstv.com/sports/m-baskbl/sched/ucf-m-baskbl-sched.html

Making UCF a Nike school would help get the Floridas, Miamis, and the FSUs on the schedule and be a boost to Conference USA. IF UCF improved enough to be competitive in the conference and make the tourney - Nike gets it's money back almost hand over fist.

Adidas has grown weary of fighting with Nike in these situations and it's obvious they are dropping the ball and making a big deal out of Marcus' shoes b/c of WHO his father is. Teams make exceptions for players to wear different shoes quite often. I see UCF as a Nike school very soon...

El_Diablo
11-06-2009, 09:40 AM
You guys are all calling this kid a punk, but since when it is a RIGHT that universities get to make money off of their students?. Do any of those kids get paid for wearing that gear? No, the university does. Where are Marcus Jordan's rights as AN AMATEUR athlete, and as a student. He's not a professional, he's not playing for a contract or has endorsements....why should he be obligated to do something not related to playing basketball for other people to make money?

This is a strange argument on many levels. The coaching staff, facilities, equipment, travel, etc all cost a lot of money...why can't the university subsidize those costs by getting endorsement deals? You ask why Marcus should be obligated to do something for someone else to make money? Because...wait for it...UCF's money is being used to pay for HIS tuition, room, board, shoes, uniforms, weight room use, travel, etc. See how that works?

He's an amateur, but it's not like he's getting nothing out of this arrangement with UCF. If he wants a salary, he can go play professionally. Since he's likely not good enough to do that, he's "stuck" with merely getting a free education and the benefits of NCAA competition. What does he have to do in order to hold up his end? Go to practice, get decent grades, don't commit any crimes for four years, and wear the team's contractually-negotiated gear at games (and those first three conditions are pretty flexible).

You're right about one thing though...these shoe brands are more about commercialization than real basketball. But then why are you not bothered by the fact that Marcus Jordan is the one emphasizing the Nike brand at the expense of his team's? If the shoe brand has nothing to do with basketball--why does Marcus Jordan really care what he's wearing? I'm sure every college basketball player in America had a preferred brand before college, yet many had to switch. Somehow they all managed the Herculean task of lacing up with another brand on gameday, putting aside their own egos for the team's benefit. But not Marcus. He's special.

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 09:42 AM
But not Marcus. He's special.

Nail - meet head...

El_Diablo
11-06-2009, 09:46 AM
Making UCF a Nike school would help get the Floridas, Miamis, and the FSUs on the schedule and be a boost to Conference USA.

I don't get it...why would the Nike brand put different schools on UCF's schedule?

BD80
11-06-2009, 09:53 AM
... And Markus, he will go back to being the heir apparent wannabe, minus his 15 minutes of fame....which he got over his dad's shoes!

You mean this is really all about MJ? Inconceivable!

Why is MJ letting his son, a bench player on a pretty bad team, bring this level of attention to himself? To allow his son to stand out for snubbing the team's sponser, and cost the school $3 million?

Oh yeah. It's all about MJ!

Talk about awful parenting. MJ's day has passed, he is but a memory now. He has no future in the NBA, he has repeatedly proven he sucks in the front office.

But MJ NEEDS the spotlight, and is willing to throw his son to the wolves to get his fix.

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 09:56 AM
I don't get it...why would the Nike brand put different schools on UCF's schedule?

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gatorbytes/files/2009/07/tim_tebow_article.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gatorbytes/2009/07/21/nflcom-espn-battle-over-tebows-2010-nfl-draft-projection/&usg=__dQrynf51jgQrFg9lCdRHumkwYCQ=&h=300&w=450&sz=44&hl=en&start=39&um=1&tbnid=JxeE5nGsmaxK8M:&tbnh=85&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpic%2Bof%2Btim%2Btebow%26ndsp%3D20%26 hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1

http://store.nike.com/index.jsp?country=US&lang_locale=en_US&cp=usns_CSE_081109_Froogle&l=shop,pdp,ctr-inline/cid-100701/pid-277724/pgid-277724&CAWELAID=377805148#l=shop,pdp,ctr-inline/cid-100701/pid-277724/pgid-277724

http://yahoosports.teamfanshop.com/NCAA_University_of_Miami_Jerseys/Nike_Miami_Hurricanes__Number_5_Green_Authentic_Fo otball_Jersey

Tell me what you notice similar about those links...

El_Diablo
11-06-2009, 10:14 AM
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gatorbytes/files/2009/07/tim_tebow_article.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/gatorbytes/2009/07/21/nflcom-espn-battle-over-tebows-2010-nfl-draft-projection/&usg=__dQrynf51jgQrFg9lCdRHumkwYCQ=&h=300&w=450&sz=44&hl=en&start=39&um=1&tbnid=JxeE5nGsmaxK8M:&tbnh=85&tbnw=127&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpic%2Bof%2Btim%2Btebow%26ndsp%3D20%26 hl%3Den%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:en-us%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20%26um%3D1

http://store.nike.com/index.jsp?country=US&lang_locale=en_US&cp=usns_CSE_081109_Froogle&l=shop,pdp,ctr-inline/cid-100701/pid-277724/pgid-277724&CAWELAID=377805148#l=shop,pdp,ctr-inline/cid-100701/pid-277724/pgid-277724

http://yahoosports.teamfanshop.com/NCAA_University_of_Miami_Jerseys/Nike_Miami_Hurricanes__Number_5_Green_Authentic_Fo otball_Jersey

Tell me what you notice similar about those links...

Yeah, I understand that they're Nike schools. But they can still play against schools sponsored by Adidas, right?

theAlaskanBear
11-06-2009, 10:20 AM
wearing the shoe of the school's choosing is no different than wearing the uniforms of the school's choosing.

it IS the kid's fault. Kid needs to play for the school BY The rules set BY the school. If he can't come on and be a team player, let him go somewhere else.

The SCHOOL told Marcus Jordan it wouldnt be problem! He didnt just show up and say FU to the program. He apparently talked to the unversity ahead of time.

Then the University shouldnt have inked him. They knew this could be a potential problem. I understand the need for universities to raise money for athletic programs, but imo student-athletes should not be required to do anything other than show up for practice, attend team functions, media sessions, and play basketball.

However stupid of a situation this is, it was created by the University and Adidas NOT the player. Would anyone have even noticed or cared if Adidas let Marcus wear a different shoe?

If I'm Marcus Jordan, there is no way you will get Adidas on my feet. He should have the right to refuse being commercialized by Adidas. I personally think that student-athletes should have control over their own merchandising and licensing rights. College basketball and football amateurism is the biggest sham I have ever seen.

CameronDuke
11-06-2009, 10:35 AM
"but imo student-athletes should not be required to do anything other than show up for practice, attend team functions, media sessions, and play basketball."

Should student-athletes also go to class, study books, take tests, and earn their degrees? I thought that was the whole point of STUDENT-athletes earning their scholarships...

Student-athletes should also wear what their coaches tell them to wear on the court. They should close their mouths, open their ears and eyes, and play the game. Again, though, rock those Jordan's on the bench well Marcus! You show the bench who is boss!

BD80
11-06-2009, 10:37 AM
... I personally think that student-athletes should have control over their own merchandising and licensing rights. ...

How many UCF players have sufficient marketability to generate their own deal?

So the entire remainder of athletes at UCF should suffer because MJ's son wants his own deal?

It is only because of the collective that UCF received the deal from Adidas. The deal gives EVERY player equipment.

Unconscionable.

You would think that that we were talking about team sports and teamwork or something.

blazindw
11-06-2009, 10:54 AM
Teams make exceptions for players to wear different shoes quite often.


Would YOU expect Marcus Jordan not to wear ummm, a shoe with HIS last name on it?

These are the two most important parts of this scenario, in my opinion. Supa is right in that teams make exceptions for players to wear different shoes, either because the sponsor shoes give the player blisters or the player buys his own shoes to wear or that the player just feels more comfortable. We have had several Duke players wearing Jordans that they may have purchased (of course, this is a bit different than the UCF situation since Jordan is a division of Nike).

Also, that is his family's shoe company. His family name is on it. Would you force a member of the Ford family to drive a Cadillac, even though Cadillac sponsors the corporate fleet of that company? Would you make Bill Gates' children use a Mac at a firm that only used Mac computers? I wouldn't, and I would completely understand and not call someone a primadonna just because they decide to go with their family brand.

The kid was still wearing an adidas jersey, adidas headbands, warmups, wristbands, etc. The only thing he had non-adidas were his shoes, which is a huge part of his family's wealth and legacy. I don't think that makes him a primadonna. In fact, asking before he signed the LOI about the situation lets me know he was very forward about his desire to honor his family brand on the court and to make sure that it would not be a problem. He got that assurance and signed.

While I agree with the team first attitude, I don't think wearing a different pair of shoes is part of that. You don't recruit a player to wear the right shoes. You recruit him to play basketball. If a player feels he can be the best player in a pair of Jordans because they're the most comfortable or his dad just happens to be the namesake of that shoe, that should be the team's primary concern.

With that said, I hope that Nike can step up and get UCF a contract so that their other teams don't have to suffer for a sticky situation.

jesus_hurley
11-06-2009, 11:02 AM
I think Marcus is being petty and selfish - I'll just go ahead and put that out there...

1. If Dell Curry had been sponsored by Converse and Seth refused to wear Nike's at Duke would the same people defending Marcus be defending him? Or are you just defending him because 'it's UCF' or 'He's MJ's son'?

2. Correct me if I am wrong but the Air Jordan brand is owned by Nike (well, actually a subsidiary owned by Nike...). Not MJ. MJ was endorsed by Nike who in turn created a shoe for HIM - not his kids.

3. Marcus wearing another shoe brand for about 72 hours per year won't make or break any contracts HIS DAD has with Nike. Who cares what he practices in - Adidas is only worried about what he plays his games in.

Now, the school is also in the wrong - they never should have agreed to anything without checking with their sponsor first. But Marcus, upon finding out it was going to be an issue should have either transferred to a Nike school or sucked it up and wear what he's given.


Would YOU expect Marcus Jordan not to wear ummm, a shoe with HIS last name on it?

Should we take this to mean that anybody with the last name of 'Jordan' may be able to negotiate special terms because he *may* be associated with MJ? Again, last I checked it was Michael with the shoe deal not Marcus.

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 11:39 AM
I think Marcus is being petty and selfish - I'll just go ahead and put that out there...

1. If Dell Curry had been sponsored by Converse and Seth refused to wear Nike's at Duke would the same people defending Marcus be defending him? Or are you just defending him because 'it's UCF' or 'He's MJ's son'?

2. Correct me if I am wrong but the Air Jordan brand is owned by Nike (well, actually a subsidiary owned by Nike...). Not MJ. MJ was endorsed by Nike who in turn created a shoe for HIM - not his kids.

3. Marcus wearing another shoe brand for about 72 hours per year won't make or break any contracts HIS DAD has with Nike. Who cares what he practices in - Adidas is only worried about what he plays his games in.

Now, the school is also in the wrong - they never should have agreed to anything without checking with their sponsor first. But Marcus, upon finding out it was going to be an issue should have either transferred to a Nike school or sucked it up and wear what he's given.



Should we take this to mean that anybody with the last name of 'Jordan' may be able to negotiate special terms because he *may* be associated with MJ? Again, last I checked it was Michael with the shoe deal not Marcus.

I think you are missing the point. Marcus is simply caught up in BIG business. This article should put things in perspective.

http://www.boston.com/business/globe/articles/2007/08/05/though_adidas_lands_top_schools_nike_is_still_the_ sponsorship_leader/

allenmurray
11-06-2009, 02:45 PM
Parents and university administartors alike have an imortant lesson to teach folks in all of this: Honor your word - whether itis a "word" or a contract. Instead they taught this lesson - honor your word unless breaking your word will bring you a lot of publicity and money.

DevilCastDownfromDurham
11-06-2009, 04:15 PM
But would you have even CARED how many points a player from UCF scored before we were talking about Marcus' shoes?

We're talking about Air Jordans here people!! LOL!

Maybe these gentlemen can make a counter-offer. http://jontusion.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/OLD_big_format1w_gef.jpg

CEF1959
11-06-2009, 05:40 PM
I think Marcus is being petty and selfish - I'll just go ahead and put that out there...


I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but would it matter if Marcus had discussed this with the team in advance and been assured by UCF that it would be fine? There are some reports that's how it happened. But I don't have any special knowledge, so I just ask the question.

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 07:38 PM
I'm not saying you're wrong necessarily, but would it matter if Marcus had discussed this with the team in advance and been assured by UCF that it would be fine? There are some reports that's how it happened. But I don't have any special knowledge, so I just ask the question.

Did you actually read the article?

SupaDave
11-06-2009, 07:39 PM
Maybe these gentlemen can make a counter-offer. http://jontusion.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/OLD_big_format1w_gef.jpg

The irony in this picture is that JMJ (Jam Master Jay) is actually wearing the DUKE Adidas! Too bad it's not 1990 anymore!!

Newton_14
11-06-2009, 11:08 PM
The irony in this picture is that JMJ (Jam Master Jay) is actually wearing the DUKE Adidas! Too bad it's not 1990 anymore!!

I remember those days well! I have always liked the look of Adidas moreso than Nike. I kind of hated it when we switched. Plus the Nike's some of our guys are wearing this year are dangerously close to the wrong color of blue.


On that note, the shoes that our guys designed last year and debuted during March Madness? What happened with those? I expected to see them this year from the start, but at the 3 games so far it did not appear they were wearing those.

Any ideas on that? Were they for the tourney only?

SupaDave
02-17-2010, 12:11 PM
Sorry guys - I just cannot understand how Roy could pass on THIS guy... He chose Henson over this guy. And ironically he's in desperate need of a wing player...

http://today.ucf.edu/blog/2010/02/17/jordan-led-knights-sweep-houston/

El_Diablo
02-17-2010, 12:29 PM
Sorry guys - I just cannot understand how Roy could pass on THIS guy... He chose Henson over this guy. And ironically he's in desperate need of a wing player...

http://today.ucf.edu/blog/2010/02/17/jordan-led-knights-sweep-houston/

Scoring under 8 points per game (against weak competition) is not that impressive. He's the fifth-leading scorer on a team that isn't very good.

Having an extra guard on the UNC roster would help them this year, but there are tons of better players out there who Roy passed up on as well. And even if Marcus had signed with UNC, he'd be buried on the bench next year (behind Drew, Marshall, Strickland, Bullock, Graves). I don't fault Roy for taking a 5-star forward over a 3-star guard who got extra attention in high school just because of his last name. Maybe Roy didn't want to deal with the ego referenced in the first 3 pages of this thread.

SupaDave
02-17-2010, 05:09 PM
Scoring under 8 points per game (against weak competition) is not that impressive. He's the fifth-leading scorer on a team that isn't very good.

Having an extra guard on the UNC roster would help them this year, but there are tons of better players out there who Roy passed up on as well. And even if Marcus had signed with UNC, he'd be buried on the bench next year (behind Drew, Marshall, Strickland, Bullock, Graves). I don't fault Roy for taking a 5-star forward over a 3-star guard who got extra attention in high school just because of his last name. Maybe Roy didn't want to deal with the ego referenced in the first 3 pages of this thread.

You have heard of this guy's dad right? I would choose pedigree over rankings any day of the week. Marcus would fit in nicely at the three and if his work ethic is HALF of his dad's then UCF got themselves a player (one that would most likely challenge some folks royally in practice).

And let's not forget - as we oftentimes point out on this site - that scoring is not an indicator of overall effectiveness. If you read the article they gave a freshmen the responsibility of guarding the nation's top scorer. Sounds like the kind of defense UNC needs badly on the wing.

This is the one case where Roy shoulda sucked it up and brought in a Jordan.

Channing
02-17-2010, 06:04 PM
You have heard of this guy's dad right? I would choose pedigree over rankings any day of the week.

Really? So you would choose a player based on their father rather than based on how good they themselves are? That sounds like a really poor way to recruit.

By your reasoning Duke should have recruited Glenn Rice Jr over Andre Dawkins because of his pedigree. And just because someone is the nations leading scorer does not mean they are a great player (sometimes they are, not not always). Remember the nations leading scorer as a freshman who played for Citadel or VCU or one of those schools, transferred to Mizzou, and turned out to be pretty pedestrian?

If Roy had chosen this Jordan over any of his freshman I would have laughed and wondered what in the heck he was doing. By all means, choose a middling prospect over a top 5 player in the country.

Duvall
02-17-2010, 06:20 PM
You have heard of this guy's dad right? I would choose pedigree over rankings any day of the week.

That sounds like a horrible, horrible idea. I would much rather rely on a clear-eyed assessment of a player's strengths and weaknesses relative to his peers than put my faith in an accident of birth. It's not like Marcus Jordan was some diamond in the rough - people had seen him play. They just saw that he wasn't very good.

CameronBornAndBred
02-17-2010, 06:26 PM
The irony in this picture is that JMJ (Jam Master Jay) is actually wearing the DUKE Adidas! Too bad it's not 1990 anymore!!
1990? For that photo..try 1986...maybe. (But still..Kudos to JMJ...Bringing the Devils to Hollis)

CDu
02-17-2010, 06:27 PM
You have heard of this guy's dad right? I would choose pedigree over rankings any day of the week. Marcus would fit in nicely at the three and if his work ethic is HALF of his dad's then UCF got themselves a player (one that would most likely challenge some folks royally in practice).

And let's not forget - as we oftentimes point out on this site - that scoring is not an indicator of overall effectiveness. If you read the article they gave a freshmen the responsibility of guarding the nation's top scorer. Sounds like the kind of defense UNC needs badly on the wing.

This is the one case where Roy shoulda sucked it up and brought in a Jordan.

I have several problems with this:

1. Choosing on pedigree over rankings is not a very smart recruiting strategy. Sure, you'll occasionally end up with a Curry. But most of the time the rankings are a better predictor than pedigree. There's a reason that no elite colleges were recruiting him. Would you have taken Jordan's other son over, say, JJ Redick? Pedigree doesn't hurt, but you always recruit talent over pedigree.

2. Marcus is 6'2" or 6'3." I don't see how he would "fit perfectly at the 3." They're better off with McDonald/Strickland, who are bigger and better. And they're certainly better off with Barnes and Bullock next year at the 3.

3. I agree that scoring is not the only indicator of success. But neither is a a university blog article recap of a game. Judging by the stats, it's not like Jordan shut down Coleman in either game. The guy scored 28 ppg and averaged 1.33 points per shot in his two games against UCF.

The reality is that Jordan is a decent player on a mediocre team in a bad conference. UNC struggling, but they are no worse off for not offering him a scholarship. Not offering Jordan a scholarship was not a mistake by Williams.

SupaDave
02-17-2010, 07:57 PM
I'm sorry - I feel yall but this isn't just ANY pedigree. Yall are trying to tell me you wouldn't save ONE scholarship for arguably the greatest player of all time's SON? I wouldn't care HOW it turned out - he's on my team. This isn't a him or HIM situation. This kid can afford UNC - I think...

We all know recruiting is no exact science - I've seen many of you argue in many different ways about it. So why NOT?

Of course no one is saying pick this guy over JJ - BUT we didn't have that kind of decision to make.

I have been casually observing Marcus so this isn't based on a University blog. I've been watching MJ's kids since they were well - little kids. I've personally seen him and his brother's competitive spirits. There's something there with Marcus (who also plays taller than his height). Marcus is coming on and I truly think it was a mistake not even offering the kid.

Also, I didn't say he was a lock down defender but he was given the responsibility and he accepted it. Think this guy wouldn't love going up against WHOEVER UNC has on their team this year?

Seriously guys? Questioning his talent? This is one of the few Universities in the NATION that still has a JV squad. Yes - please look it up if you don't know.

Again - you don't make room for this guy?

CDu
02-17-2010, 08:18 PM
I'm sorry - I feel yall but this isn't just ANY pedigree. Yall are trying to tell me you wouldn't save ONE scholarship for arguably the greatest player of all time's SON? I wouldn't care HOW it turned out - he's on my team. This isn't a him or HIM situation. This kid can afford UNC - I think...

That's different than offering him a scholarship.



We all know recruiting is no exact science - I've seen many of you argue in many different ways about it. So why NOT?

Of course no one is saying pick this guy over JJ - BUT we didn't have that kind of decision to make.

You said you'd take pedigree over recruiting rankings. Well, UNC is recruiting kids in the Redick area of the rankings (i.e., to-20 players). So, yes, that is the decision they're having to make. Yes, recruiting rankings aren't exact. But college scouting by elite teams correlates pretty closely with recruiting rankings. There's a reason for that.


Seriously guys? Questioning his talent? This is one of the few Universities in the NATION that still has a JV squad. Yes - please look it up if you don't know.

Again - you don't make room for this guy?

What exactly does the UNC JV team have to do with anything? None of those guys are scholarship players, and few of those guys even get to walk on to the varsity team period. It has no bearing on offering Jordan a scholarship.

I'm not sure if UNC didn't offer Jordan a chance to walk on. But a school like UNC just doesn't need to offer a low-level recruit like Jordan a scholarship. It really doesn't matter who his father is. They can (and do) get better players.

SupaDave
02-17-2010, 10:47 PM
But none of that answers the question - why not? Are you guys trying to tell me all that family talk and Carolina Pride stuff is a bunch of hooey? This guy's father happens to be second only to El Deano himself in the Pantheon that is all baby blue.

It's like Dale Earnhardt Jr. with his dad's crew. Jarrett Payton getting an NFL shot. Marcus can't have Thomas Thornton's spot? Puuulease. Thornton's tail would be on the JV squad before they had a jersey for him!

UNC will be fine of course. Over-hyped recruits have been signing up for years but they should have at least let the kid turn them down. Just seems like the right thing to do.

mapei
02-17-2010, 10:58 PM
Georgetown made a similar decision in taking Patrick Ewing, Jr. as a transfer from Indiana. I thought it was a mistake at the time, for all the reasons some of you are citing.

But it turned out to be not just a good, but a great move - he was a key contributor on the Hoyas' final four team and on two Big East regular season championships. He was sixth man of the year in the BE and on some national lists as well.

The argument made at the time by his proponents was "He can come here if he wants. He's Patrick Ewing's son." They turned out to be right. Now, maybe Gtown just got lucky. But that's a reasonable chance to take on one of your scholarships. Maybe not more than one, but one.

SupaDave
02-17-2010, 11:26 PM
Georgetown made a similar decision in taking Patrick Ewing, Jr. as a transfer from Indiana. I thought it was a mistake at the time, for all the reasons some of you are citing.

But it turned out to be not just a good, but a great move - he was a key contributor on the Hoyas' final four team and on two Big East regular season championships. He was sixth man of the year in the BE and on some national lists as well.

The argument made at the time by his proponents was "He can come here if he wants. He's Patrick Ewing's son." They turned out to be right. Now, maybe Gtown just got lucky. But that's a reasonable chance to take on one of your scholarships. Maybe not more than one, but one.

Very good point. Georgetown even hired the Coach's son...

SupaDave
02-17-2010, 11:40 PM
1990? For that photo..try 1986...maybe. (But still..Kudos to JMJ...Bringing the Devils to Hollis)

Take a look at Grant's feet...

calltheobvious
02-17-2010, 11:43 PM
I'm sorry - I feel yall but this isn't just ANY pedigree. Yall are trying to tell me you wouldn't save ONE scholarship for arguably the greatest player of all time's SON? I wouldn't care HOW it turned out - he's on my team. This isn't a him or HIM situation. This kid can afford UNC - I think...

We all know recruiting is no exact science - I've seen many of you argue in many different ways about it. So why NOT?

Of course no one is saying pick this guy over JJ - BUT we didn't have that kind of decision to make.

I have been casually observing Marcus so this isn't based on a University blog. I've been watching MJ's kids since they were well - little kids. I've personally seen him and his brother's competitive spirits. There's something there with Marcus (who also plays taller than his height). Marcus is coming on and I truly think it was a mistake not even offering the kid.

Also, I didn't say he was a lock down defender but he was given the responsibility and he accepted it. Think this guy wouldn't love going up against WHOEVER UNC has on their team this year?

Seriously guys? Questioning his talent? This is one of the few Universities in the NATION that still has a JV squad. Yes - please look it up if you don't know.

Again - you don't make room for this guy?

No. See Mean, Regression to the.

As for GU hiring JTIII, that's not even in the same ballpark as your Marcus Jordan idea.

CDu
02-18-2010, 07:56 AM
But none of that answers the question - why not? Are you guys trying to tell me all that family talk and Carolina Pride stuff is a bunch of hooey? This guy's father happens to be second only to El Deano himself in the Pantheon that is all baby blue.

It's like Dale Earnhardt Jr. with his dad's crew. Jarrett Payton getting an NFL shot. Marcus can't have Thomas Thornton's spot? Puuulease. Thornton's tail would be on the JV squad before they had a jersey for him!

UNC will be fine of course. Over-hyped recruits have been signing up for years but they should have at least let the kid turn them down. Just seems like the right thing to do.

Why not? How about this:

1. Because you have a limited number of scholarships and don't to waste one on a guy who is a mediocre recruit.
2. Because you don't want to add chemistry issues with a guy who didn't earn his scholarship.
3. Because you treat the value of a scholarship offer with integrity, and want to give them to players who earn the scholarship - not are born into it.

Payton isn't the same thing. He was given a tryout (not a job).

CDu
02-18-2010, 08:45 AM
Very good point. Georgetown even hired the Coach's son...

That's not remotely similar. Thompson had actually shown he could really coach at the college level in leading Princeton to the Ivy League title three times. The pedigree didn't hurt, but he'd shown the talent as well.

And the Georgetown/Ewing comp isn't relevant either. Georgetown wasn't in the habit of only recruiting top-tier recruits. He was also a known commodity (i.e., role player), and he filled a need as a big man to back up Hibbert and Green. Jordan didn't fill any needs. They had better recruits (and I'd still argue that Strickland and McDonald are better) at the same positions.

CameronBornAndBred
02-18-2010, 09:24 AM
Take a look at Grant's feet...
My eyes stopped at his hair.:eek:

sagegrouse
02-18-2010, 10:03 AM
No. See Mean, Regression to the.



For an outlier in the entire Regression to the Mean discussion, which pops up here from time to time, one has to consider the unusual case of the Plumlee family.

Regression to the mean was first introduced in a a 19th century study by sir Francis Dalton. Dalton was interested in heredity and measured the height of adult populations in Britain. He found that extremes in height were not transferred to children, and that the rough approximation was that children were only two-thirds as far above (or below) the population mean as their parents. The study, of course, considered the height of both father and mother.

Now comes the Plumlees. Perkie, the dad, is quite tall, but doesn't seem to be taller than his sons. The mom was also a college basketball player. Now the sons turn out to be 6-10, 6-10, and 6-11. There is no regression occurring anywhere in that family. If the father were 6-10 and the mother comparably tall (say, 6-4), then one would expect the sons to average around 6-6 (assuming the population mean height is around 5-10). Not short, to be sure, but not 6-10 either.

I don't know of another case like this. Every NBA center with basketball progeny seems to have shorter sons. The list includes Walton, Ewing, Sampson, Moses Malone, and others. The only other example I can think of is that pere and fils Jay and Clay Buckley at Duke were both listed as 6-10.

sagegrouse

SupaDave
02-18-2010, 10:16 AM
That's not remotely similar. Thompson had actually shown he could really coach at the college level in leading Princeton to the Ivy League title three times. The pedigree didn't hurt, but he'd shown the talent as well.

And the Georgetown/Ewing comp isn't relevant either. Georgetown wasn't in the habit of only recruiting top-tier recruits. He was also a known commodity (i.e., role player), and he filled a need as a big man to back up Hibbert and Green. Jordan didn't fill any needs. They had better recruits (and I'd still argue that Strickland and McDonald are better) at the same positions.

Marcus Jordan won a 4A state championship, was tourney MVP, and held his own with the Jordan Brand all-stars. Nothing to poo-poo at any level. So he's shown talent as well.

And you guys really have UNC confused, these guys have recruited all SORTS of players. Lots of top recruits but definitely some filler in between. Ever heard of Clyde Lynn? I knew the kid b/c he was from Greensboro. He would come home while I was in school and play pick-up. He was athletic but most definitely a project.

UNC always goes for it's share of NC kids so why not just ONE more Jordan. I mean Duke did do it with Melchionni and that turned out pretty well (and he was admittedly worthy - but in my opinion so is Marcus).

allenmurray
02-18-2010, 10:24 AM
And you guys really have UNC confused, these guys have recruited all SORTS of players.

UNC always goes for it's share of NC kids so why not just ONE more Jordan.

Funny, I didn't know this was a Carolina board where we cared one little bit about who carolina recruits. Take it to IC, Im sure you'll be welcome there. ;)

SupaDave
02-18-2010, 10:30 AM
Funny, I didn't know this was a Carolina board where we cared one little bit about who carolina recruits. Take it to IC, Im sure you'll be welcome there. ;)

Yeah yeah - I hear ya Al. :) But this thread isn't about UNC's recruiting - just Marcus! LOL! Growing up in NC there's only one thing I respected about that University and that was MJ. I could wax philosophic but I'm just one of the kids who understands the "Jordan" factor in NC.

CDu
02-18-2010, 11:28 AM
Marcus Jordan won a 4A state championship, was tourney MVP, and held his own with the Jordan Brand all-stars. Nothing to poo-poo at any level. So he's shown talent as well.

I'm not poo-pooing Jordan's talent. I'm just stating that there's a difference between winning a HS state championship and showing the talent to earn a scholarship at UNC these days. Jordan's credentials don't compare to the credentials that Thompson III had shown (especially when you consider where Georgetown was as a program when he was hired).


And you guys really have UNC confused, these guys have recruited all SORTS of players. Lots of top recruits but definitely some filler in between. Ever heard of Clyde Lynn? I knew the kid b/c he was from Greensboro. He would come home while I was in school and play pick-up. He was athletic but most definitely a project.

Not sure how this is relevant. Under Roy Williams, he's recruited better guards. You're suggesting he should have recruited Jordan over two top-25 talents. That's not a good recruiting strategy. If you're just saying UNC should have offered him a chance to walk on, that's a different issue (and I don't disagree). But I don't know that UNC didn't offer him a chance to walk on.


UNC always goes for it's share of NC kids so why not just ONE more Jordan. I mean Duke did do it with Melchionni and that turned out pretty well (and he was admittedly worthy - but in my opinion so is Marcus).

Again, this is differet. For one, Melchionni was recruited for a need position. Further, did Duke choose Melchionni over a higher-ranked SF? If not, then this is irrelevant as well (as UNC chose two much higher-ranked players over Jordan). Also, did Duke choose Melchionni in part because he was willing to go scholarship-free for a year?

And if Duke did choose Melchionni over a higher-ranked player, did Melchionni turn out better than that higher-ranked player? For example (and these are hypothetical as I don't know if Duke recruited these guys), would you rather have had Melchionni or Matt Walsh, Carmelo Anthony, Andre Iguodala, Hassan Adams, Curtis Sumpter, or Brandon Roy (all much higher-rated wings)? Because that's what you're suggesting that UNC should have done - take a much lower-rated "pedigree" guy over the players that exhibited more talent in high school.