Comprehensive NBA early entry thread 2009

[roywhite]

Maybe we can consolidate announcements about early entrants or news about players who have decided to remain in college. Non-Duke players, since there is already a Gerald Henderson draft status thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney09/news/story?id=4048617

Ed Davis of UNC says he will return.

[mr. synellinden]

Maybe we can consolidate announcements about early entrants or news about players who have decided to remain in college. Non-Duke players, since there is already a Gerald Henderson draft status thread.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney09/news/story?id=4048617

Ed Davis of UNC says he will return.

I always like to see college players stay (well, except for UNC players) because it's good for the game. But I wonder why he would stay. I think he showed last night he's a lottery pick. If you were an NBA GM and you had the first pick in the draft, but you could only draft from UNC's roster, who is the first player you'd take? I'll bet if you polled all NBA GMs, the vast majority would say Ed Davis. But good for him. UNC's frontcourt is going to be loaded next year with Davis, Thompson, Zeller, Henson and the Wears. Add in Ginyard, Drew and the backcourt freshmen and UNC isn't going to drop too far. Damn.

[geraldsneighbor]

Jodie Meeks and Dejaun Blair have declared.

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

It goes from bad to worse...

I had two hopes after last night's massacre...

1.Davis goes pro...
2.Ellington goes pro...

That frontline is ridiculous next year....Davis, Thompson, Zeller, Henson, Wear x 2...

Like we didn't have enough problems on the glass last year...It will be like volleyball underneath the basket when we play the holes...

Hopefully, Ellington follows Henderson to the pros...

[Matches]

I think Davis will change his mind once the euphoria of winning wears off and he has time to assess the situation. People are talking about him being a top 10, maybe a top 5 pick - NBA scouts are absolutely drooling over him. He might go higher than either Lawson or Ellington.

[quickgtp]

What about Thompson? Has he ruled out going pro? if I were him I would look to leave this year while the draft is a bit weaker than usual. I am sure someone would take a chance on him in the 2nd round.

I am not worried about UNC next year. The key driver to this team was Lawson. Even if Davis returns we match up well under the hoop:

Czyz 6'7 Thompson 6'8
Singler 6'8 Wear 6'9
Thomas 6'8 Wear 6'9
Kelly 6'10 Davis 6'10
MP1 6'10 Henson 6'10
MP2 6'11 Zeller 7'0
Zoubek 7'1

I am sorry but Zeller is soft and has a ways to go before he does anything special. The only two that concern me are Davis and Henson, but even then, one of them will be stuck chasing Singler around.....

[slower]

What about Thompson? Has he ruled out going pro? if I were him I would look to leave this year while the draft is a bit weaker than usual. I am sure someone would take a chance on him in the 2nd round.

I am not worried about UNC next year. The key driver to this team was Lawson. Even if Davis returns we match up well under the hoop:

Czyz 6'7 Thompson 6'8
Singler 6'8 Wear 6'9
Thomas 6'8 Wear 6'9
Kelly 6'10 Davis 6'10
MP1 6'10 Henson 6'10
MP2 6'11 Zeller 7'0
Zoubek 7'1

I am sorry but Zeller is soft and has a ways to go before he does anything special. The only two that concern me are Davis and Henson, but even then, one of them will be stuck chasing Singler around.....

you have Czyz "matched up" with Thompson on this list. "Match up well"? Have you been paying attention this year? Now if you shift all of our guys up one slot and move Czyz back to the bottom, that makes more sense.

[Matches]

What about Thompson? Has he ruled out going pro? if I were him I would look to leave this year while the draft is a bit weaker than usual. I am sure someone would take a chance on him in the 2nd round.



I can't imagine the promise of being a possible 2nd round pick would lure him out of school. He will be BMOC for the Heels next year and, with a good season, probably becomes a 1st round pick in 2010.

[dukediv2013]

you have Czyz "matched up" with Thompson on this list. "Match up well"? Have you been paying attention this year? Now if you shift all of our guys up one slot and move Czyz back to the bottom, that makes more sense.

I think he was just putting sizes up against one another, not players. I don't want Ryan Kelly guarding Ed Davis, EVER! Davis is a beast.

[quickgtp]

you have Czyz "matched up" with Thompson on this list. "Match up well"? Have you been paying attention this year? Now if you shift all of our guys up one slot and move Czyz back to the bottom, that makes more sense.

Dude, relax, if you didn't notice I did the listing in order of height. There weren't any specific match-ups, rather an overall big picture.

[quickgtp]

I think he was just putting sizes up against one another, not players. I don't want Ryan Kelly guarding Ed Davis, EVER! Davis is a beast.

Thank you, and yes, I agree with your thoughts on Kelly vs. Davis!

[mr. synellinden]

I think Davis will change his mind once the euphoria of winning wears off and he has time to assess the situation. People are talking about him being a top 10, maybe a top 5 pick - NBA scouts are absolutely drooling over him. He might go higher than either Lawson or Ellington.

Looking at this latest mock draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft)from nbadraft.net, I think I would take Davis ahead of everyone but Griffin. He would easily be a top 10 pick.

For 2010, (http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft) they have Davis at #3.

Also, just looking at those mock drafts, eveyone says 2010 is a much deeper draft, but I don't see that.

[moonpie23]

davis is coming back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney09/news/story?id=4048617

[Franzez]

Looking at this latest mock draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft)from nbadraft.net, I think I would take Davis ahead of everyone but Griffin. He would easily be a top 10 pick.

For 2010, (http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft) they have Davis at #3.

Also, just looking at those mock drafts, eveyone says 2010 is a much deeper draft, but I don't see that.
2010 is a much much deeper draft.

For Davis he might return but it wont improve his draft stock,with the uncertainty after Griffin & Rubio in 2009 he has a chance to go high with some good workouts.

[-jk]

davis is coming back.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney09/news/story?id=4048617

And so was Dunleavy. Until he wasn't. He has lots of time to change his mind after the euphoria wears off.

-jk

[Sgt. Dingleberry]

Looking at this latest mock draft (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009mock_draft)from nbadraft.net, I think I would take Davis ahead of everyone but Griffin. He would easily be a top 10 pick.

For 2010, (http://www.nbadraft.net/2010mock_draft) they have Davis at #3.

Also, just looking at those mock drafts, eveyone says 2010 is a much deeper draft, but I don't see that.

In this year's draft, they have Ellington going to the Lakers...That would be such a perfect match for both parties...I can just see him becoming like Derek Fisher (without the PG duties) and just bombing from 3...His shooting motion even kind of looks like Fisher...

GO WAYNE!! DECLARE!!!

[coldriver10]

ESPN: Jodie Meeks will enter the NBA draft but won't hire an agent.

[UrinalCake]

I can't imagine the promise of being a possible 2nd round pick would lure him out of school. He will be BMOC for the Heels next year and, with a good season, probably becomes a 1st round pick in 2010.

That's a good point; he's basically been playing behind in Hans's shadow his whole career so he'll finally have a chance to show what he can do. Unless of course one of the freshmen surpasses him.

No way Ellington comes back. He has absolutely nothing left to prove and his stock will never be higher.

[Smitty1911]

Fox Sports: Earl Clark has declared for the draft and will hire an agent.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9426182/Louisville-star-Clark-to-enter-draft,-hire-agent?MSNHPHMA

[Exiled_Devil]

And so was Dunleavy. Until he wasn't. He has lots of time to change his mind after the euphoria wears off.

-jk

And Sean May.

No one is out of the draft until after the deadline. I'm expecting Davis to go because of his play this weekend. It's not like he's going to play for a second title next year (please, God.)

[Exiled_Devil]

Interesting thing from the draft site - Jennings is projected in the top five. That's Jennings of 'forget college, I'm playing in Europe' fame.

If that's the case, looks like that worked out well enough for him.

[mr. synellinden]

Chad Ford has Ed Davis at #4 in this mock draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft). Maybe he will Dunleavy (v., intransitive, to change one's mind about declaring for the NBA draft after initially proclaiming an intention to stay)

Oh and Henderson is not in the top 20.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (4) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (3) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA?)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA?)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA?)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (0)
Gonzaga (3) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (3) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9
ASU (1) - Pendergraph 6-9
WFU (2) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (0)
Butler (0)


While Kansas and Syracuse don't lose any seniors, alot depends on what Collins and Flynn do. Arizona and Butler don't lose any seniors and I'm not sure anyone on their teams could go in the first round, so they are looking good for a big move upwards next year.

I was looking at this same list (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3) from last year and its remarkable that Kansas made the sweet 16 this year and finished 10th after losing 7 players from last year.

Duke moved up 5 spots from last year, somewhat dissapointing with all that they had returning. If Henderson goes to the NBA than I'm not sure Duke would move up next year.

The big easy had teams finish 3rd thru 6th. Pretty impressive, though they lose alot for next year.

[BD80]

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=535977

Budinger gone. Won't be back

[mr. synellinden]

What about A.J. Price for UConn?

[Coballs]

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/ncaatourney09/news/story?id=4048617

Sorry if this was already posted elsewhere

[BD80]

Leaving ASU and won't be back

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9429040/Sources:-Arizona-St.'s-Harden-heading-to-NBA

[turnandburn55]

I could see Ed Davis pulling a Luol Deng... initially no thoughts about leaving early, but under intense pressure to go "one-and-done" after a standout NCAA tournament on a star-laden team.

[gofurman]

Devan Downey from South Carolina is gone

[gofurman]

chase budinger declared -

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (4) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (3) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA?)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA?)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA?)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (0)
Gonzaga (3) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (3) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (2) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (1) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA)
Butler (0)

I don't think AJ Price has said whether he is going to put his name in the draft or not.

[mr. synellinden]

Price is a senior.

[whereinthehellami]

Price is a senior.

But he did not play 05-06 (suspended?). Did he lose that year of eligibility?

[Franzez]

Price is a senior.
Exactly.

Aj Price is from the same 2004 recruiting class as DeMarcus Nelson lol

Unless he asks for a 6th year due to the illness he suffered in what would have been his freshmen year, but chances are it will be dismissed after he was suspended the following season for stealing computers.

[CDu]

But he did not play 05-06 (suspended?). Did he lose that year of eligibility?

He was a 2004 recruit. He came in a year ahead of Austrie and Adrien, who are seniors. He redshirted the 2004-2005 season and was suspended for the 2005-2006 season. He's a fifth-year senior this year.

Also, I'd add Wayne Ellington to the list of (NBA?) for UNC. I really can't see him coming back after his tournament run, especially given that all his buddies are going to be gone.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA?)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA?)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA?)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (0)
Gonzaga (3) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (3) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (2) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (1) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA)
Butler (0)

I don't see Ellington leaving. He has a chance to be the man next year. If he does leave, UNC will obviously look very different next year. If they don't add Wall and lose Ellington, they will have some serious holes. They would still be talented but not a threat to repeat. Would they put Henson at the 3? They would have some backcourt and outside shooting questions to address. Their lineup could look something like this:

Drew 6-2
Strickland 6-4
Ginyard 6-5
Thompson 6-8
Davis 6-11

[tbyers11]

I don't see Ellington leaving. He has a chance to be the man next year. If he does leave, UNC will obviously look very different next year. If they don't add Wall and lose Ellington, they will have some serious holes. They would still be talented but not a threat to repeat. Would they put Henson at the 3? They would have some backcourt and outside shooting questions to address.



There have been no definite statements yet from Ellington's camp, but IMO, he is as good as gone. He tested the waters last year and got a rude awakening that his game wasn't ready. He played VERY well the last two months of the season and in the tourney and should benefit from striking while the iron is hot. Due to his recent play he might even sneak into the first round. Combine this with the fact that the 2009 draft is seen as being considerably weaker than the 2010 draft and I think now is Ellington's best shot at getting guaranteed first round money.

As you say he could be the man next year, but will that really help him with regard to the NBA? How much will his scoring average decline without the easy looks that come from Lawson's penetration and the attention given to Hansbrough in the post?

This comprehensive list from Draft Express (http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#Word-on-the-Street-Whoas-In-and-Out-of-the-2009-NBA-Draft-3168) of who's going and who's not suggests that Ellington's camp is already interviewing prospective agents.

[Matches]

nbadraft.net has Ellington in the top 12. Having just been named Final Four MOP, I think first round is a done deal. Most Heel fans I know are assuming he's gone.

[Skitzle]

What are the best/most often correct draft sites?

I know of:

Chad Ford/ESPN
Draft Express
NBADraft.net


Thoughts? Comments? Reviews?

[MChambers]

What are the best/most often correct draft sites?

Isn't this an oxymoron?

[gotham devil]

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9430894/Sources-reveal-Wake-Forest-trio's-leanings

Teague to enter, but not hire agent

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA?)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA?)
Oklahoma (4) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA), Warren 6-4 (NBA?)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA?)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (1) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA?)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA?)
Butler (0)

LMAO about Teague staying in the draft if he is in the top 10 (per Draftexpress). That is just crazy talk. Where would he play in the NBA? I'm not sold on him as a PG and he is kind of weak as a SG. I realize alot of these kids are just using the system to get a skills evaluation but some of them are in for a rude awakening.

[ns7]

Devan Downey from South Carolina is gone

Downey is a junior and is not hiring an agent. Right now he wants more information. My guess is that he returns since he's only 5'9".

http://www.thestate.com/gogamecocks/story/741487.html?RSS=gogamecocks

[CDu]

I don't see Ellington leaving. He has a chance to be the man next year. If he does leave, UNC will obviously look very different next year. If they don't add Wall and lose Ellington, they will have some serious holes. They would still be talented but not a threat to repeat. Would they put Henson at the 3? They would have some backcourt and outside shooting questions to address. Their lineup could look something like this:

Drew 6-2
Strickland 6-4
Ginyard 6-5
Thompson 6-8
Davis 6-11

And I don't see any way Ellington stays. He may have the chance to be the man next year, but it's extremely unlikely that he'll raise his stock any higher than he could based on his run through March and April. His stock is probably as high as it is going to get. Further, he just experienced a national championship. He's unlikely to get to experience that again. Add to that the fact that his buddies will all be going pro, and you have very little reason to stick around. I'll be SHOCKED if Ellington doesn't announce for the draft along with Lawson.

[revmel53]

So Teague has declared. Thought Gaudio was over his head from the beginning. Wake won big games versus unc and DUKE but when it counted, Wake again was fake. Without Johnson and Teague, what can be expedted from Wake?

[Icarus09]

So Teague has declared. Thought Gaudio was over his head from the beginning. Wake won big games versus unc and DUKE but when it counted, Wake again was fake. Without Johnson and Teague, what can be expedted from Wake?

They won't be able to do anything without Aminu. His presence would totally change the team as well. If all three are gone, they'll be hurting (they'll lose their front court entirely) but if only two leave, they might be able to place in the middle of the ACC. They won't be the same as this year, that's for sure.

[CDu]

So Teague has declared. Thought Gaudio was over his head from the beginning. Wake won big games versus unc and DUKE but when it counted, Wake again was fake. Without Johnson and Teague, what can be expedted from Wake?

Technically, Teague is just testing the waters. He hasn't committed to hiring an agent, so he can still return. Only Johnson is gone for sure. But yes, if Teague goes along with Johnson, that team takes a nosedive next year. They won't have nearly the talent, and they don't have a very good coach to make up for the talent loss.

[Bluedog]

Blair is gone, has "begun hiring representatives [...] and plans to hire an agent within the next several weeks"

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-pitt-blair-nba&prov=ap&type=lgns

Hill is also gone.

Arizona forward Jordan Hill will forgo his senior year and make himself eligible for the NBA draft.

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-arizona-jordan&prov=ap&type=lgns

[geraldsneighbor]

How silly is it that Blair says he based his decision on Internet mock drafts. He said that since no one had him in the second round he is considered a lock first round pick. I'd cry if that is what G based his decision on.

[moonpie23]

sorry if this is a repost, but, johnson from wake is gone.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4055538

[blueprofessor]

according to The Daily Orange.

Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

[BD80]

America's most hated player declares...

according to The Daily Orange.

Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

Hansbrough is a senior, he is gone whether he declares or not!

[Bluedog]

They won't be able to do anything without Aminu. His presence would totally change the team as well. If all three are gone, they'll be hurting (they'll lose their front court entirely) but if only two leave, they might be able to place in the middle of the ACC. They won't be the same as this year, that's for sure.

Aminu staying at Wake.

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/gatech/stories/2009/04/09/aminu_georgia_tech_basketball.html

[Matches]

Hansbrough is a senior, he is gone whether he declares or not!

Are we sure *he* realizes that, though? :D

[brevity]

according to The Daily Orange.

Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

Here's the link (http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2009/04/09/Sports/Mbb-Flynn.Devendorf.Harris.Will.Declare.For.Nba.Draft-3705166.shtml). It says Eric Devendorf, Jonny Flynn, and Paul Harris are all at least testing the waters.

In other news, Jrue Holiday (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4056438) of UCLA and Dwayne Collins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4056030) of Miami have declared.

[geraldsneighbor]

Here's the link (http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2009/04/09/Sports/Mbb-Flynn.Devendorf.Harris.Will.Declare.For.Nba.Draft-3705166.shtml). It says Eric Devendorf, Jonny Flynn, and Paul Harris are all at least testing the waters.

In other news, Jrue Holiday (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4056438) of UCLA and Dwayne Collins (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/news/story?id=4056030) of Miami have declared.

I had heard Harris was gone because he needs the money for his family so its definitely understandable. Apparently he is willing to go to Europe if he has to.

Devendorf is a 4th year junior so it isn't very surprising but at the same time I can't see him being drafted.

[NYC Duke Fan]

This maybe be answered in another thread and if so, I apologize for the reduntantcy.

Why is everyone so positive that they are leaving one year early ? What if , Roy convinced them to stay for their senior year ? Are we looking at a possible repeat then in Chapel Hill ?

[KyDevilinIL]

Well, sure. If they stayed, UNC would be the overwhelming favorites next season.

I'm not sure what Lawson and Ellington themselves have said on the topic of leaving, but the conventional wisdom is that they almost left a year ago, came back and got what they wanted (a title), and now are moving on.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA?)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (4) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA), Warren 6-4 (NBA?)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA?)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA?), Harris 6-4 (NBA?), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA?)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA?)
Butler (0)

Yeah I don't see where Devendorf would go. Even if he is declaring for the the free evaluation, it doesn't make much sense. AT 6-4 he is not that tall, limited athletically, and of questionable attitude. He is not that great of a shooter either. The NBA should give some of these kids a dose of reality upfront. They should have a "europe" evaluation area that is cordoned off from the NBA area with old velvety red ropes.

[CDu]

This maybe be answered in another thread and if so, I apologize for the reduntantcy.

Why is everyone so positive that they are leaving one year early ? What if , Roy convinced them to stay for their senior year ? Are we looking at a possible repeat then in Chapel Hill ?

Those guys REALLY wanted to leave last year. They came back to raise their draft status and maybe win a title. They accomplished both. There's nothing left for them as college players.

Lawson really has nothing left to do as a college player in terms of getting better for the NBA. He's not going to get taller, so he can't fix the biggest liability in his game at the next level (his size). But he improved as a shooter this year, which was the other big knock. Ellington had such a great stretch from the end of February through the championship that sticking around doesn't make sense for him either. He showed he can create his own shot and be a consistent scorer, and he showed more willingness to attack the basket.

Combine the facts that (1) they wanted to go LAST year, (2) their stock can't really get any higher, (3) they won the championship, (4) their bodies Copeland and Green are going, and (5) this is a weak draft class, it's pretty close to a certainty that they're going pro.

Obviously, stranger things have happened. But if I were a betting man, I'd say they're gone.

[whereinthehellami]

I think Lawson is definately gone but I wouldn't be suprised if Ellington come back. I'm not sure if Ellington is a first rounder.

[NYC Duke Fan]

Those guys REALLY wanted to leave last year. They came back to raise their draft status and maybe win a title. They accomplished both. There's nothing left for them as college players.

Lawson really has nothing left to do as a college player in terms of getting better for the NBA. He's not going to get taller, so he can't fix the biggest liability in his game at the next level (his size). But he improved as a shooter this year, which was the other big knock. Ellington had such a great stretch from the end of February through the championship that sticking around doesn't make sense for him either. He showed he can create his own shot and be a consistent scorer, and he showed more willingness to attack the basket.

Combine the facts that (1) they wanted to go LAST year, (2) their stock can't really get any higher, (3) they won the championship, (4) their bodies Copeland and Green are going, and (5) this is a weak draft class, it's pretty close to a certainty that they're going pro.

Obviously, stranger things have happened. But if I were a betting man, I'd say they're gone.

Good Analysis...Thanks

[DUKIE V(A)]

Fear! :eek: They don't want to lose to us next season!

[CDu]

I think Lawson is definately gone but I wouldn't be suprised if Ellington come back. I'm not sure if Ellington is a first rounder.

I think Ellington helped himself as much as he's going to help himself over the last month of the season. His stock isn't going to get much higher, because he's shown his potential on a consistent level and next year he'd be expected to improve upon that just to stay at the draft level he's at now. And given that this is a weak draft year AND all his buddies will be gone and UNC will be down talent-wise (a bit) as a result, I think he's gone.

Of the two, Ellington is the only one who realistically might return, but I will be very very surprised if he does. He's not going to win a title next year, unless they get Wall (and then they have a chance but are no guarantee). And if Wall comes, he just repeats the situation this year in which he's the third option (with Davis inside and Wall outside), only without his friends around to make it fun.

[NYDukie]

I think it's all a dead issue. The only matters at hand for UNC is to make sure Davis stays. And if Lawson was supposedly staying, why would Roy make overtures to Wall, his handler's aside.

[miramar]

Those guys REALLY wanted to leave last year. They came back to raise their draft status and maybe win a title. They accomplished both. There's nothing left for them as college players.


Combine the facts that (1) they wanted to go LAST year, (2) their stock can't really get any higher, (3) they won the championship, (4) their buddies Copeland and Green are going, and (5) this is a weak draft class, it's pretty close to a certainty that they're going pro.



That's it in a nutshell. The only thing that I can add is that Carolina's past history backs all this up.

[4decadedukie]

Is it also possible that they may benefit from Hansboro's experience; many suggest his financial potential would have been greater in last year's NBA draft, than the impending one?

[BlueintheFace]

The Pac-10 is going to be WAY down next year with all the heavy hitters losing their top guys to the draft and graduation

UCLA: Collison, Shipp, Aboya, Holiday
ASU- Pendergraph, Harden
USC: Hackett, Derozan, Gibson (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/98493-sources-usc-trio-going-pro?eref=fromSI)
Arizona: Hill, Budinger
Washington: Dentmon, Brockman

... this seems like very good news for Johnny, but then again, he will lose three of his starters/top scorers to graduation.

[SMO]

The Pac-10 is going to be WAY down next year with all the heavy hitters losing their top guys to the draft and graduation

UCLA: Collison, Shipp, Aboya, Holiday
ASU- Pendergraph, Harden
USC: Hackett, Derozan, Gibson (http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/98493-sources-usc-trio-going-pro?eref=fromSI)
Arizona: Hill, Budinger
Washington: Dentmon, Brockman

... this seems like very good news for Johnny, but then again, he will lose three of his starters/top scorers to graduation.

Same with the ACC I'm afraid, especially if Teague, Ellington and Henderson go. A couple of ACC teams are reloading pretty well (Duke, UNC, anyone who lands Wall). Who in the PAC 10 is positioned to recover with a strong class?

[dukeballer2294]

Same with the ACC I'm afraid, especially if Teague, Ellington and Henderson go. A couple of ACC teams are reloading pretty well (Duke, UNC, anyone who lands Wall). Who in the PAC 10 is positioned to recover with a strong class?

Living in LA i have heard a little about the recruiting for the area. First, although UCLA loses a lot last year was thier major class and if Holliday doesnt hire an agent they should be fine, they have an ok class this year headlined by 4-star wingman Tyler Honeycut. USC on the otherhand has a pretty good class coming in. With Floyd staying most of the players who commited should sign with them this spring. The 1 that might not is Solomon Hill, he commited to Arizona the decommited and commited to USC. Although its not or certain his dad has said that once again Arizona is a major player in his recruitment so well see what happens. SC also has 5-star player Renardo Sydney, he is a top 10 prospect and should be a force next year. Another guy not many people know about is Evan Smith. I have seen him personally as I go to his HS and although many sites have him as undecided hes has commited to USC. If they can keep any of the big 3 leaving this year they should be the cream of the crop next year in the Pac 10

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Here's a quote from the article I saw...

"I am returning to North Carolina for my sophomore season and will not apply for the NBA Draft," says Davis. "I love being a student at Carolina and playing with my teammates for Coach (Roy) Williams. I'd like to play in the NBA someday, but my family and I don't think I'm ready to take that step."

[dukelifer]

Here's a quote from the article I saw...

"I am returning to North Carolina for my sophomore season and will not apply for the NBA Draft," says Davis. "I love being a student at Carolina and playing with my teammates for Coach (Roy) Williams. I'd like to play in the NBA someday, but my family and I don't think I'm ready to take that step."
He probably even wants to win another championship. Come on Ed. Enough already.

[FireOgilvie]

I think this is an instance where coming back to school will cost him millions. He would probably go 3rd - 5th this year. Next year, in a much deeper draft, unless he has a Griffin-esque improvement, he'll probably go 5th-10th or maybe lower if he gets injured, etc. Plus he's missing out on the extra year's salary.

[dbd4ever]

I seem to remember another post title game speech sounding this way right before he declared for the draft........Sean May?????? Oh and he was supposed to convince his teammates to come back with him.

[RelativeWays]

Whether we like it or not, there's a lot that Davis can do to imporve his stock with another year of college, not to mention bulk up. We may rue it, but its a good decision. If he's as good as people think, he'll still be a lottery pick. If not, oh well.

[sandinmyshoes]

This is evidently not a post game speech or interview, but an official announcement issued through the school. Personally, I'm not sure he would have actually gone in the top five (depending on other early entries). You see things like that bandied about every year that don't pan out when coaches make contact with team GMs ect.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4062801

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I see no reason to believe this is not a good decision for him. Of course, there is always the slight injury risk, and he could "slip" in the draft, but really, is he likely to "slip" much, if any? He can better prepare himself for a long NBA career at UNC as he matures, and he could actually work his way to #1. Either way he decided, was basicly a no lose situation for him in my mind.

Having a father who has been there (NBA) and the financial ability to feel no pressure to rush things is very fortunate for him, and UNC for that matter.

The lane will be a dangerous place to enter against UNC next year with Davis, Thompson, Zeller and Henson roaming about. This could be the best shot blocking team UNC has ever had. We'll see....

[DUKIE V(A)]

Unfortunately for us as fans, Davis seems to get it. This seems to be a theme for Carolina players...they seem to get it. It's not all about cashing in...sometimes it's about doing what's necessary to make yourself a better player and more well-rounded person. In the end, this path will likely lead him to greater success in the pros and in life. Good for him and Carolina. Not so good for us as a team on one hand (as things will be tougher)...but it will force us to raise the quality of our play in order to beat Carolina -- which in my mind is a good thing for us.

[spifi]

Well, *recent* UNC guys get it. They had plenty of guys that didn't along the way. Where is Joseph Forte now?

But Ed's Dad had recent comments pointing out that the big money to be made in the NBA is in your second contract, which is three or four years after your first (depending on your option). I think they looked hard at the Marvin Williams situation. This is a guy that left after his freshman year and went to a team that NEEDED him. Even so, it still took him quite some time to develop into a solid NBA caliber player likely to get that next contract. As in he's *barely* done it, and was one ill-timed injury away from not doing it. And I don't think anyone truly believes Ed Davis is as good right NOW as Marvin Williams was at the same point (Marvin would have started down the stretch of that season if Roy hadn't known it would probably mess up Jawad's head).

So given that, they decided there was no need to risk it and go now. Combine that with the fact that his parents aren't hurting for money, and it makes a good bit of sense for Ed. Some services have had him in the 3-5 range now, but I have to think Roy got information that this wasn't really terribly accurate and he'd have been a decent amount lower. But even if he was, say, fifth, I think the above stuff still overrides that. He's thinking much longer term than just getting a lottery contract, and who knows, maybe he really does just enjoy college a lot? I know I did. :)

[FireOgilvie]

It'd be different if Davis was going to come back and be "the man." He's coming back to a team where he could very well come off the bench again. I doubt that Roy benches senior Thompson in favor of Davis. Even if Davis starts, he's going to be competing with Thompson, Zeller (who started over him at the beginning of the year when Hansbrough was gone), the Wear twins (probably backups), and John Henson (who is a better NBA prospect than Davis) for minutes. It's going to be a total logjam.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

.... John Henson (who is a better NBA prospect than Davis) for minutes. It's going to be a total logjam.

Ah, a little wishful thinking there? If there is one thing that Roy's system has proven, it is that there is plenty of room for more than just a strong starting five on his teams.

And, Davis and Henson are two different animals. Henson will be out on the wing it appears, while Davis will be more of a post player. I'm not sure how you can rationalize one as a better prospect than the other. I think it's already pretty clear they will both be well paid to play some day.

Henson's length and size at the high post feeding Davis, Thompson, even Zeller will be hard to stop next year. The interesting thing to me will be how will they handle quicker little guys when on defense? They will be able to back off the dribbler because of their length and shot blocking timing, but too much and the 3's will rain.

It's why they play the game.

[UrinalCake]

Something I don't understand when people advocate leaving early... if the risk of coming back is that he'll be "exposed" and his draft stock will slip, then he probably wasn't that good to begin with. So what are the chances he would have improved in the NBA if he did leave? People point to guys like Terrence Morris and Josh McRoberts as examples of players who should have left a year earlier, but I feel like if they're just not good enough players then that will come out eventually either way. I guess you could say that they could have cashed in and just inflated their initial contract, but as many have said the second NBA contract is the real goal.

I am quietly fearing that UNC's crew will pull a Florida and all come back for another run, minus Hansbrough of course.

[bradjenk]

And, Davis and Henson are two different animals. Henson will be out on the wing it appears, while Davis will be more of a post player. I'm not sure how you can rationalize one as a better prospect than the other. I think it's already pretty clear they will both be well paid to play some day.



Just curious Wheat. Do you really think Roy will play Henson (all recruiting folks list him as a PF, and usually players play up a position in college not down) on the wing? He seems to always have preferred the conventional type lineup of 2 post, 2 wing, 1 point guard on the floor as his main lineup. It might work though if Henson is able to grasp major college perimeter defense. With Ginyard and Graves as the only likely natural wings, minutes should be available to try it. I'm just curious if you think Roy's normal offense and defense allow such a lineup. If so, it could be a great front line which could balance out a weaker backcourt.

[geraldsneighbor]

Something I don't understand when people advocate leaving early... if the risk of coming back is that he'll be "exposed" and his draft stock will slip, then he probably wasn't that good to begin with. So what are the chances he would have improved in the NBA if he did leave? People point to guys like Terrence Morris and Josh McRoberts as examples of players who should have left a year earlier, but I feel like if they're just not good enough players then that will come out eventually either way. I guess you could say that they could have cashed in and just inflated their initial contract, but as many have said the second NBA contract is the real goal.

I am quietly fearing that UNC's crew will pull a Florida and all come back for another run, minus Hansbrough of course.


I can't see that. I think Lawson being injured two straight years has something to do with that. He won't want to risk another injury that would be more serious and Ellington's stock is as high as it is going to get. I think losing Lawson and not getting a real PG will hurt more than many experts think.

[RelativeWays]

My Guess is UNC's starting 5 will be PG (Drew 2 or Wall or whoever), Ginyard at SG, possibly Henson at 3 if he's as good as advertised, and Thompson and Davis down low. Ed finished really strong in the tourney and Zeller didn't do himslef any favors, gameplay wise coming back. Davis seems to have moved up the chart and I'd be really surprised if he doesn't start.

For the 1st time in a long time, Duke will at least be able to match up size wise with UNC. We don't have anyone of Davis' true post play, but I'm hoping Zoubs and Miles can get some buckets and continue to improve on defense. Deon has a more polished offensive game than Lance but now Lance will get to play a true 4 and that may help. I think if Mason and Ryan end up being solid on both ends, we'll have a counter for Zeller and one of the wears, though Zeller is a bit more experienced. When is the last time Duke has had 5 players that measured 6'10 or more (though Lance may be 6'9). This is a pretty large team. Now can they play and produce points? That is the question. Both UNC and Duke will have issues if they do not find suitable point guards to run the offense, perhaps UNC moreso because at least Duke as been through it before. I expect Nolan to be a bit improved and we know Jon can run the point. I'd still prefer them to be back up ball handlers with a true point in there somewhere.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Just curious Wheat. Do you really think Roy will play Henson (all recruiting folks list him as a PF, and usually players play up a position in college not down) on the wing? He seems to always have preferred the conventional type lineup of 2 post, 2 wing, 1 point guard on the floor as his main lineup. It might work though if Henson is able to grasp major college perimeter defense. With Ginyard and Graves as the only likely natural wings, minutes should be available to try it. I'm just curious if you think Roy's normal offense and defense allow such a lineup. If so, it could be a great front line which could balance out a weaker backcourt.

In short, I don't know.
Roy has been quoted as saying Henson would play some on the wing, so I guess we have to take his word for it. He seems fairly quick defensively, so he will just need to learn where to be, and the decisions to make... like they all do.

I've only seen Henson in the Mac game and the Hoop Summit game last night. From that limited look, I thought he handled the ball reasonably well in the open floor, but it was hard to tell. If he can prove to take care of the ball out there, that will be the deal for him to play wing. He is "springy" which can help cover up mistakes defensively on the wing. I did note he seemed to have good court awareness, which helps to keep from getting your pocket picked even if you don't handle like a guard.

UNC is a little thin in the backcourt next year, but hardly weak, IMO. I think Drew is underrated and will do just fine with his cast. He looks to be a "runner" and will be able to play plenty of minutes at a high pace, which he will likely need to do.

I think Henson and Ginyard at the 3 will prove to be strong defensively, but I do have concerns that they will score from the 1/2 court as needed.

Other, bigger questions to me will be 2g play. Can Graves step up and show some maturity, play some D? Is Ginyard going to be back to his old self, and can he score it?
Is Strickland as good as advertised from day one? If so, look out.

Here's how I see UNC's Depth by position next year:

PG: Drew,Strickland,Ginyard Macdonald
SG: Graves,Strickland,Watts,Ginyard,Macdonald
WF: Ginyard,Henson,Zeller
PF: Davis,Zeller,Henson,Wears
C: Thompson,Davis,Zeller

There are many interchangeable parts the way Roy plays.

So I'm guessing day one we see a starting line up of...Drew,Graves,Ginyard,Davis,Thompson.

And I'm looking forward to seeing how a line up of Drew,Strickland,Ginyard,Henson and Davis would look.

And Drew,Strickland,Henson, Zeller and Davis could really be interesting.

And...you get the point I'm sure.
It will be a fun year to watch the Heels in '10.

[bradjenk]

UNC is a little thin in the backcourt next year, but hardly weak, IMO. I think Drew is underrated and will do just fine with his cast. He looks to be a "runner" and will be able to play plenty of minutes at a high pace, which he will likely need to do.



Thanks, Wheat. Sounds like a fair assessment. When I said "weaker backcourt" of course I meant relative to the Lawson-Ellington combo. We both know that most other ACC teams would love to have Drew, Ginyard, and Strickland as their perimeter rotation. Personally, I think Ginyard will step up much like Noel did as a senior and take on the leadership mantra that pushes his game up a notch. I also think Drew will be solid, but he will be more of a steward of the offense rather than the engine of it. I think the big question is who will hit the big jump shot. Assuming Ellington's gone there's no established shooters returning and none of the frosh are labled as such. So Wheat, in your opinion who's it gonna be?

[Scorp4me]

This seems to be a theme for Carolina players...they seem to get it.

They might get it, but they sure seem to be in a hurry to get out over there. Not saying it's due to UNC, I think they just recruit those type of players. Take Lawson for example, he was ready to go...he just wasn't "ready" to go.

[kakalaki kidd]

They might get it, but they sure seem to be in a hurry to get out over there. Not saying it's due to UNC, I think they just recruit those type of players. Take Lawson for example, he was ready to go...he just wasn't "ready" to go.

maybe be true, but hans stayed all 4 years and davis is returning. in todays college game you must have a mix of players. some talented enough to leave early and some that need time to develop

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think the big question is who will hit the big jump shot. Assuming Ellington's gone there's no established shooters returning and none of the frosh are labled as such. So Wheat, in your opinion who's it gonna be?

When you win every game by 12, that's not much of a worry ;)

Seriously, hard to tell. More likely to be an inside move than a jumper with this team, so my guess would be Davis or Thompson.

If it is a jumper, Strickland is supposed to be a good one, but I'll take my chances with Graves as of now.

[El_Diablo]

When you win every game by 12, that's not much of a worry ;)

Seriously, hard to tell. More likely to be an inside move than a jumper with this team, so my guess would be Davis or Thompson.

If it is a jumper, Strickland is supposed to be a good one, but I'll take my chances with Graves as of now.

Is Graves even coming back next year? Wasn't he kicked off the team?

[davekay1971]

Here's how I see UNC's Depth by position next year:

PG: Drew,Strickland,Ginyard Macdonald
SG: Graves,Strickland,Watts,Ginyard,Macdonald
WF: Ginyard,Henson,Zeller
PF: Davis,Zeller,Henson,Wears
C: Thompson,Davis,Zeller
.

Interesting observations on the depth chart. I didn't know Ginyard was someone who could effectively run the point in Roy's up-tempo system. I do think UNC will be thin at guard, and can understand why Huckleberry Hound is making a run at Wall.

Unless Huck has a strong lean toward playing seniority, I wouldn't be surprised to see Thompson coming off the bench. Davis is a talent, and was very impressive this year, moreso as the year went on. Zeller clearly has some skills, and, with some time in the weight room, could be very productive as a sophomore. I see both of them as being potentially much better than Thompson, who, I think, gave about what he was capable of giving this year. I would expect to see Davis starting at C, Zeller at the 4, and Henson and Thompson giving big minutes off the bench.

Carolina's obviously a long way from being down, given the talent level on the roster. But, assuming Lawson and Ellington go and they don't get Wall, they do come into the year with very big questions: (1) how will Drew perform being the showcase point guard?; (2) how quickly will the young talent develop?

[Chicago 1995]

Be interesting to see how much this costs Davis in the long run.

I suspect he's more likely to see his stock go down than he is to become Blake Griffin. Seems like a bad decision to me, but I don't have Roy whispering sweet nothings in my ear, either.

[sagegrouse]

Be interesting to see how much this costs Davis in the long run.

I suspect he's more likely to see his stock go down than he is to become Blake Griffin. Seems like a bad decision to me, but I don't have Roy whispering sweet nothings in my ear, either.

I have posted on this topic elsewhere. See link (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15429&page=19) that contrasts Lebron with, say, Andre Blatche. IMHO most 19-20 YOs don't belong in the NBA. The lifestyle and play is totally unsuitable for someone that age, unless he has the physical presence and commercial advantages of a Lebron or Shaq. They have never lived on their own. (As Danny Ferry said when he turned down the villa offered by the Italian team that signed him: "I'd have to have my mother come over and help me clean it.")

Yeah, your basketball may advance more rapidly than in college. Yeah, the economic incentives may be greater if a player can take advantage of a high draft position and also move closer to an unrestricted contract. But really, this is a kid and its his life, and there is plenty of money downstream for good players. I suspect that the decision to stay in school was informed by the parents, who certainly know their child and what an NBA lifestyle is like.

I thank Davis's return is good for the Tarheels (obviously) and for college basketball. I think Duke fans can live with it.

And BTW, are the recent Heel early entries doing anything in the NBA?

sagegrouse

[Chicago 1995]

I have posted on this topic elsewhere. See link (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15429&page=19) that contrasts Lebron with, say, Andre Blatche. IMHO most 19-20 YOs don't belong in the NBA. The lifestyle and play is totally unsuitable for someone that age, unless he has the physical presence and commercial advantages of a Lebron or Shaq. They have never lived on their own. (As Danny Ferry said when he turned down the villa offered by the Italian team that signed him: "I'd have to have my mother come over and help me clean it.")

Yeah, your basketball may advance more rapidly than in college. Yeah, the economic incentives may be greater if a player can take advantage of a high draft position and also move closer to an unrestricted contract. But really, this is a kid and its his life, and there is plenty of money downstream for good players. I suspect that the decision to stay in school was informed by the parents, who certainly know their child and what an NBA lifestyle is like.

I thank Davis's return is good for the Tarheels (obviously) and for college basketball. I think Duke fans can live with it.

And BTW, are the recent Heel early entries doing anything in the NBA?

sagegrouse

I think that last quote is the money quote here, and why Davis, more than likely, is making a mistake.

If you can't play at the NBA level, NBA types will figure that out over time. In the cases of Brendan Wright and Marvin Williams, the NBA folks are figuring that out while those guys earn between $10M and $12M in salary.

Ed Davis is giving the NBA another chance to figure out whether or not he can play on his own dime. He certainly could improve his draft position -- Blake Griffin did. At the same time, where Davis was being projected in this draft, it is much harder for him to move up in the draft. When you are in the top half of the lottery, you just can't improve that much. Again, Griffin did, but he's the exception.

This year, Davis would be taken behind Thabeet and Griffin and Rubio (depending on his buyout) for certain. Beyond that? Seems like with good workouts and the ping pong balls bouncing in the right order, Ed could go as high as 4th. Is he really going to improve that much next year, even if things go right for him?

I understand that the adjustment from college to the NBA from a lifestyle perspective is huge, and that physically, Davis is not ready, and would need to be developed to be an impact pro. But I think you are drastically understating the risk he's taking by saying there's plenty of money down the line for good players. Ed Davis may not be one of those "good players" in actuality, but he is perceived to be one now. Given the money he's giving up, Davis is running a pretty massive risk coming back, and one I'm surprised his dad, with his NBA connections, is willing to have his son take on.

I'm not surprised Roy would have him take this on, but that's another case.

[trinity92]

The kid is a monster and he hasn't even been a starter/focal point of the offense-- I don't think he has any weaknesses that will come to light that haven't already-- he may not have a shot outside of 6 feet, but he doesn't really try those shots. He's content in the paint, and with all the departures, he gets at least 7 more shots a game. He will be the best player on the team and a star-- probably a national star. I'd project 16-18 ppg and 10 rebs.

More to the point, physically, he still looks like a boy (except when he's swatting shots), and his frame could easily accept another 30 pounds-- he'd be 245 after that weight gain. The wear and tear of 82 games in the NBA on that comparatively skinny frame could be more adverse to his career than another year 30 odd game season in the ACC see, Shaun Livingston.

[GrayHare]

"When should a college athlete turn pro? Not until he has earned all he can in college as an amateur."

-- Will Rogers (1879-1935)

[SlimSlowSlider]

From yesterday's Boston Globe:

Aligning the stars in Carolina
One NBA scout doesn't think any of NCAA champion North Carolina's three stars - guard Ty Lawson, forward Tyler Hansbrough, and guard Wayne Ellington - would be lottery picks this year. He believes Lawson would go in the late teens, Hansbrough would be a late first-rounder at best, and Ellington would be a second-rounder. "Ty has grown on me," the scout said. "I wasn't a big fan when he initially came out last year. It was a good decision to go back to school. He's the best prospect. But at the end of the day, the three [underclassman] big boys - Deon Thompson, Ed Davis, and Tyler Zeller - may be better as pros than Lawson, Hansbrough, and Ellington. With Hansbrough, energy and effort only get you so far in our league. You can count on one hand how many guys get by on that. I'm not a fan. You've got to respect the numbers he put up. Unbelievable college career. But all that stuff doesn't translate over. He's not explosive; undersized, short arms, and limited offensively. He's an OK athlete."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/articles/2009/04/12/struggling_pistons_still_looking_for_the_answer/?page=full


The article also talked about Portsmouth, and mentioned Tyrese Rice: "On Rice, the scout said, 'Rice was marginal, as were the majority of the players here. I still see him in Europe next year or the D-League.'"

[UrinalCake]

What was that scout's name, Simon Cowell?

[sandinmyshoes]

Be interesting to see how much this costs Davis in the long run.

I suspect he's more likely to see his stock go down than he is to become Blake Griffin. Seems like a bad decision to me, but I don't have Roy whispering sweet nothings in my ear, either.


The problem with your scenario is the amount of speculation involved. We don't actually know how high Davis would be drafted. I think it was with Lawson last year where there was all this speculation about him going in the middle of the first round, or some such. However, no team would actually say they would be the one to take him. They all just said something to the effect of "Not for us, but we see him in the first round."

I should imagine that Davis, or Gerald for that matter, being the son of a pro and playing for one of the elite programs will have much better info on their draft status than we can glean form websites.

I know the fannish impulse to demonize Williams is hard to resist, but really.

[Chicago 1995]

The problem with your scenario is the amount of speculation involved. We don't actually know how high Davis would be drafted. I think it was with Lawson last year where there was all this speculation about him going in the middle of the first round, or some such. However, no team would actually say they would be the one to take him. They all just said something to the effect of "Not for us, but we see him in the first round."

I should imagine that Davis, or Gerald for that matter, being the son of a pro and playing for one of the elite programs will have much better info on their draft status than we can glean form websites.

I know the fannish impulse to demonize Williams is hard to resist, but really.

There is, no question, a tipping point at some point in the draft -- probably even in the first round -- where the decision to come back makes sense a financial and risk management perspective. If Davis is projected to go in the 20s, certainly he should return.

You're also right that Davis has better info about his draft position than any of us do. At the same time, this is a weak draft and next year's is not. Davis has a lot of positive buzz right now, and there isn't much negative discussion of him, it seems, from the draft analysts or team reps speaking anonymously. Further, looking at the draft pool and my only slightly trained eye, Davis looks like a good bet to go top 8. History would support a selection in that range -- Branden Wright; Anthony Randolph, Tyrus Thomas etc. I'm not just basing my supposition that he's making a mistake on nbadraft.net. There's a lot of reason to think that Ed Davis would be a very high pick in this draft.

If he in fact is going to be drafted in the top half of the lottery, which I think seems likely right now, I think Davis is making a mistake and my argument stands. If he's not going to be drafted that highly, the it is a much closer call. If he's out of the lottery completely, then I'd agree he should return.

As for demonizing Roy, given his history, at UNC particularly, there's as more reason to question Roy's motives in advising Davis than there was for the folks in baby blue to question Ks motives. I think it's a fair criticism.

[NYDukie]

The Ed Davis situation reminds me a bit of what transpired with McBobs. Back a few year's ago after McBobs freshman year there was speculation that he too could be a lottery pick after putting up similar numbers, if not a bit better. He chose not to go and work on his game at Duke another year sans JJ and Sheldon, a similar situation that Davis would find himself in next year. I know this is only one example but we all know how that turned out.

What I'm trying to get at is this, putting aside which contract is the one you want, that you should go at your highest peak in value. Everyone speculates that insert player's name here, Ed Davis for this argument, should stay and develop his game. Yes, that all sound's nice and in a perfect world that would work. But we all know that nothing is perfect. There is risk and reward in any decision he makes. Fact is he could develop his game just as easily in the NBA as in college, if not better due to no time restrictions on practice or time devoted to class and study time. Fact is that it appears that he would be a lottery lock guaranteeing a multi-million yearly salary for 4-5 years. Some will argue he could slip and there is no guarantee. But like many things in life, you evaluate what scenarios you have in front of you and make an educated decsion on what you think is best for you.

I personally think he should go but at the same time, I will not chastise him for staying to enjoy the college life and trying to develop his game and his maturity level (which I believe are both better than McBobs at the same time)if he thinks that is what's best for him.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Is Graves even coming back next year? Wasn't he kicked off the team?

My understanding is that Roy suspended Graves for the season. He was not kicked off the team.
I heard it had something do do with his grades, but I really have no clue what the reason was.
If it was lack of schoolwork, credit Roy for walking the walk.

IMO, Deon Thompson will be a starter at center from day one and be a beast in the post for defenders to deal with next year, and not because he's a senior, but because he's a player. I don't think his game fit all that well with TH's game, they were too similar and seemed to get in each others way at times. Next year, he'll be the first post scoring option for the Heels, and I'd bet now he'll average 15 next year. This kid has never recieved the credit he deserved for rebuilding his body and as a steadily improving player year after year. Reminds me of the strides Haywood made each year.

He's a true back to the basket scorer. And is going to be a tough assignment for any opposing center in the country.

I also thought he was moving his feet well on defense and causing guys problems at the end of the year. He definately improved his D over last year. He can get tougher on the boards, but hey, everyone can get better somewhere.

Nobody at UNC wants Ginyard to have to play the point. But if you have to get a few minutes out of him there during a game, I think he can handle it.

As for Ed Davis making a mistake or not...you can make a sound arguement either way. Bottom line is it was his call and nobody sane believes Roy talked him into staying for his own selfish reasons...yada, yada, yada.

One of the appealing things for top players to come to the Hill is UNC's well deserved reputation for preparing young players to reach their potential, especially big guys.

UNC has always put their future interests first. If Ed thinks another year of the weight room, national TV coverage, increasing his name recognition for the big shoe contract, etc...will better prepare him for the future, UNC will support him in every way possible.

And for the record, I think coach K has always given his players his the same level of support.

The elite players know this and it's why both UNC and Duke get some of the best players in the country year after year.

[ncexnyc]

The Ed Davis situation reminds me a bit of what transpired with McBobs. Back a few year's ago after McBobs freshman year there was speculation that he too could be a lottery pick after putting up similar numbers, if not a bit better. He chose not to go and work on his game at Duke another year sans JJ and Sheldon, a similar situation that Davis would find himself in next year. I know this is only one example but we all know how that turned out.

What I'm trying to get at is this, putting aside which contract is the one you want, that you should go at your highest peak in value. Everyone speculates that insert player's name here, Ed Davis for this argument, should stay and develop his game. Yes, that all sound's nice and in a perfect world that would work. But we all know that nothing is perfect. There is risk and reward in any decision he makes. Fact is he could develop his game just as easily in the NBA as in college, if not better due to no time restrictions on practice or time devoted to class and study time. Fact is that it appears that he would be a lottery lock guaranteeing a multi-million yearly salary for 4-5 years. Some will argue he could slip and there is no guarantee. But like many things in life, you evaluate what scenarios you have in front of you and make an educated decsion on what you think is best for you.

I personally think he should go but at the same time, I will not chastise him for staying to enjoy the college life and trying to develop his game and his maturity level (which I believe are both better than McBobs at the same time)if he thinks that is what's best for him.
The situation with Davis and McBobs at first glance looks quite similar, however when you start to analyze the teams that both players are returning to, it's vastly different. Davis is returning to a team, which will be a definite preseason top ten team. If Ellington returns they are top five without a doubt. Sure they have a serious question mark at PG, but there's just to much talent on this team for Ed's numbers to slip. McBob on the other hand didn't have the supporting cast that Davis does. The numbers generated by Paulus during his freshman season were obviously inflated due to the presence of JJ and Sheldon so Greg really wasn't the PG everyone thought he was. Nelson was more suited to the role of a 5th man and he didn't come up big until his senior season. McBob, while a very solid player just wasn't capable of being the go to scorer, which he was asked to be.

Davis just has to much of a supporting cast surrounding him to be anything but a major star next year. The only thing, which can derail that is an injury.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I personally think he should go but at the same time, I will not chastise him for staying to enjoy the college life and trying to develop his game and his maturity level (which I believe are both better than McBobs at the same time)if he thinks that is what's best for him.


Unfortunately, McRoberts seemed to have issues between the ears, not with his skills.
Davis seems more grounded to me as well.

But we need to keep in mind that while we point at McRoberts as "worst case" example, he's collecting a nice paycheck in the NBA with the Pacers and seems to be getting better.

[johaad]

Sorry if it is already posted somewhere but thought I'd put it up. I found this at google news.
http://www.bloggersodear.com/2009/4/13/834211/wake-forests-al-farouq-aminu-is

[moonpie23]

at least johnson and teague LOOK like they are going....

[RelativeWays]

Johnson is the only one of the 3 that is closest to ready to go. Aminu still needs some time to cook (and an Aminu/Davis match up could be a lot of fun to see). Teague started off hot but just kinda unraveled along with his team. He needs another year. My guess is Teague works out and comes back, Johnson stays (has he hired an agent?)

[BD80]

... One of the appealing things for top players to come to the Hill is UNC's well deserved reputation for preparing young players to reach their potential, especially big guys. ...

Ummm, huh?

How exactly did 'ol roy or unc help Ray Felton, Sean May, Marvin Williams or Brandon Wright reach their potential? They didn't exactly light up the league when they got there.

Don't mean to start a peeing match, I know recent Duke grads haven't been lighting it up. But to say unc has a well deserved reputation? These guys came in with talent and big time reps, and got drafted on potential. unc and 'ol roy didn't help them all that much.

I think Davis is making a good choice, even though I hate to see him in that damn ugly shade of blue. It was easy to root against Hansbrough, Davis is tougher to root against.

[dukemsu]

Ummm, huh?

How exactly did 'ol roy or unc help Ray Felton, Sean May, Marvin Williams or Brandon Wright reach their potential? They didn't exactly light up the league when they got there.

Don't mean to start a peeing match, I know recent Duke grads haven't been lighting it up. But to say unc has a well deserved reputation? These guys came in with talent and big time reps, and got drafted on potential. unc and 'ol roy didn't help them all that much.

I think Davis is making a good choice, even though I hate to see him in that damn ugly shade of blue. It was easy to root against Hansbrough, Davis is tougher to root against.

May reached his potential at UNC, though how much of that Ol'Roy can take credit for can be debated. May was always going to be a slow, heavy kid with great hands, a good motor and a nice shot. That was highlighted the second half of 05, and somehow he got drafted high. Due to his chronic injuries (which are at least in part a result of his weight), he'll be hard-pressed to ever be a healthy, productive NBA player. Freight=training guys and getting blocking calls on them wasn't going to work in the NBA, either. He got his contract, though.

dukemsu

[geraldsneighbor]

Johnson is the only one of the 3 that is closest to ready to go. Aminu still needs some time to cook (and an Aminu/Davis match up could be a lot of fun to see). Teague started off hot but just kinda unraveled along with his team. He needs another year. My guess is Teague works out and comes back, Johnson stays (has he hired an agent?)

Johnson's hired an agent. I think Teague ultimately returns for his Junior season.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Ummm, huh?

How exactly did 'ol roy or unc help Ray Felton, Sean May, Marvin Williams or Brandon Wright reach their potential? They didn't exactly light up the league when they got there.

Don't mean to start a peeing match, I know recent Duke grads haven't been lighting it up. But to say unc has a well deserved reputation? These guys came in with talent and big time reps, and got drafted on potential. unc and 'ol roy didn't help them all that much.

I think Davis is making a good choice, even though I hate to see him in that damn ugly shade of blue. It was easy to root against Hansbrough, Davis is tougher to root against.

Well, for starters, please first note that I said... "UNC's well deserved reputation for preparing young players to reach their potential, especially big guys"....It was a general comment and not directed at Roy or specific players.

But since you bring them up...At UNC under Roy, Ray Felton became a nationally known, national champion starting point guard, and now starting point guard in the NBA. Was his potential higher than that?

I think we can agree that at UNC Sean May over-achieved to reach final four MVP and his big NBA contract. Hard to see him having done any better anywhere else.

Marvin Williams became a national champion, a star and a household name as the kid who couldn't even start at UNC..."the sixth man" headed to the NBA, and is developing nicely and getting paid big time. Think he would have gotten that kind of exposure to interest the league as a freshman at, say
Wake or Georgetown? Those are good programs, but if MW is there he probably never gets the opportunity or choice to make his decision as a freshman to make the jump.

Brandon Wright also benefitted from the exposure a player gets at UNC. He made the decision to jump without taking advantage of UNC's development system when he was a lottery pick. It was his call, and no-one faults him for doing what he wanted to do and get paid very well. He still weighs 205 and is currently sitting out injured, but, I don't think anyone has given up on him as a player in the league just yet.

BTW, a common thread with May,Wright and Williams we can note is they are all young and injured at this point. The NBA is a man's workplace.

Davis has evidently decided against taking the path that Wright has taken...

And since you take a little shot at HansIownU, I think taking a short armed, no talent, the refs always help me, walking to the line, hardest working man in entertainment since James Brown, slow footed caucasian young man to become the leading scoring player in ACC history, NPOY of the year, 4 time all-american, all-acc and National Champion!...is the ultimate example of how UNC helps players reach their potential.
:)

[bjornolf]

Fox Sports has an interesting page showing what they know. They update it pretty regularly.

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9439954/Early-entries-for-the-2009-NBA-draft

I guess the deadline to declare in April 26, so we're getting close.

[JasonEvans]

Jonny Flynn is going to sign (http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2009/04/jonny_be_gone.html) with agent Leon Rose (Bron-bron's agent) and will not be coming back to Syracuse.

-Jason "I'd really like the Hawks to look at him with their pick" Evans

[BD80]

It sure sounds like Thabeet is going to play for pay next year.

Well, as an NBA rookie, not for whatever uCon players will get next year.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11626094

He doesn't seem to be attending class, which could raise some sticky eligibility issues at most schools. He also seems to be enjoying the finer things in life. The Forge restaurant in Miami seems a bit pricey (its sister restaurant is in Dubai). Thus, it seems he is receiving benefits (who paid for his trip to Miami, hotel and food?) that would be improper under NCAA rules. NBA teams can pay for workouts if he declares, but I don't think we are at that stage yet.

[crimsonandblue]

It sure sounds like Thabeet is going to play for pay next year.

Well, as an NBA rookie, not for whatever uCon players will get next year.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/11626094

He doesn't seem to be attending class, which could raise some sticky eligibility issues at most schools. He also seems to be enjoying the finer things in life. The Forge restaurant in Miami seems a bit pricey (its sister restaurant is in Dubai). Thus, it seems he is receiving benefits (who paid for his trip to Miami, hotel and food?) that would be improper under NCAA rules. NBA teams can pay for workouts if he declares, but I don't think we are at that stage yet.

Does anyone think Thabeet is coming back?

Aldrich and Collins returning to Kansas. (http://www2.kusports.com/news/2009/apr/13/collins-aldrich-announce-plans-return-ku-next-seas/)

[gotham devil]

Jonny Flynn is going to sign (http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index.ssf/2009/04/jonny_be_gone.html) with agent Leon Rose (Bron-bron's agent) and will not be coming back to Syracuse.

-Jason "I'd really like the Hawks to look at him with their pick" Evans

Leon Rose is who Worldwide Wes directs people to sign with.

[BD80]

No surprise.

http://gary-parrish.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/6271764/14513656

After his weekend in Miami became public, he had to announce.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (4) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA), Warren 6-4 (NBA?)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)

So Syracuse's big 3 underclassmen are all going pro. That is going to hurt. It is going to be a down year in the big easy next year. Who will be the team in the driver's seat next year up north? Notre Dame? WVU?

[Smitty1911]

I know G'town isn't in the top 25 and therefore not included in your list, but what's going on w/ Greg Monroe? I thought conventional wisdom was he's one and done. Has he indicated his intentions? I know he wasn't quite Carmelo this past season but still had a pretty impressive freshman year. Anyone heard anything?

[dukelifer]

join Ed Davis and say no to the NBA. All were likely first round picks.

http://www.casualhoya.com/2009/4/15/839046/monroe-says-no-to-going-pro

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9457160/Aminu-returning-to-Wake-for-sophomore-season

[tommy]

Sporting News is reporting that Patrick Patterson will test the waters.

[geraldsneighbor]

join Ed Davis and say no to the NBA. All were likely first round picks.

http://www.casualhoya.com/2009/4/15/839046/monroe-says-no-to-going-pro

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9457160/Aminu-returning-to-Wake-for-sophomore-season

The Monroe decision is very puzzling. Now this IMO is very comparable to the McRoberts situation. His best running mate has already declared from a team that was brutal a year before. I think he is in the most danger of seeing his stock drop, as is Aminu if Teague departs.

[Devilsfan]

Monroe helped lead his team to a NIT (not in tournament) bid. Not much left for him to do. Going to the league for mega bucks is probably right for him.

[Franzez]

The Monroe decision is very puzzling. Now this IMO is very comparable to the McRoberts situation. His best running mate has already declared from a team that was brutal a year before. I think he is in the most danger of seeing his stock drop, as is Aminu if Teague departs.
Monroe is very talented & I would not be surprised to see him stay all 4 years at Georgetown even though thats a rarity now for a top young college basketball player.

Monroe, if he works on his game has the potential to develop into a "Complete" PF, there are few who stay to develop and work on their game each season.Most PF's that come out are either great athletes but lack other qualities in their game or are smart players that play harder due to their lack of athletic ability.

The last complete PF to come out was Duncan, if Monroe stays 4 years he may not be as good as Duncan but he will be very good.

[dukeballer2294]

damion james will also test the water

[geraldsneighbor]

Monroe is very talented & I would not be surprised to see him stay all 4 years at Georgetown even though thats a rarity now for a top young college basketball player.

Monroe, if he works on his game has the potential to develop into a "Complete" PF, there are few who stay to develop and work on their game each season.Most PF's that come out are either great athletes but lack other qualities in their game or are smart players that play harder due to their lack of athletic ability.

The last complete PF to come out was Duncan, if Monroe stays 4 years he may not be as good as Duncan but he will be very good.


So, you think Monroe is staying 4 years? Cause I don't.

[Bluedog]

I know G'town isn't in the top 25 and therefore not included in your list, but what's going on w/ Greg Monroe? I thought conventional wisdom was he's one and done. Has he indicated his intentions? I know he wasn't quite Carmelo this past season but still had a pretty impressive freshman year. Anyone heard anything?

Monroe has said that he is staying at Gtown:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/04/15/AR2009041502578.html

[tommy]

Monroe helped lead his team to a NIT (not in tournament) bid. Not much left for him to do. Going to the league for mega bucks is probably right for him.

Yeah, that was pretty darn impressive. After leading your team (where you may not have even been the best player on the team) to a losing record in your conference and not getting a bid as one of the top 64 teams in the country, what else is there to prove? You've done it all.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (4) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA), Warren 6-4 (NBA?)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)

[jjasper0729]

Frasor has a year left at caro-whine-a. he redshirted one year if i'm not mistaken.

[tbyers11]

Frasor has a year left at caro-whine-a. he redshirted one year if i'm not mistaken.

Nope. He hurt his knee too late in the year to get an extra year. He applied for it but was denied by the NCAA. He is done this year.

[dukejunkie]

Thought this might interest a few:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4071976

[jjasper0729]

Nope. He hurt his knee too late in the year to get an extra year. He applied for it but was denied by the NCAA. He is done this year.

i stand corrected...

[El_Diablo]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/04/16/flynn.ap/index.html

It was reported earlier that he was going pro, but now it's official: Flynn has signed an agent and will not be returning. Harris and Devendorf have not hired agents yet.

[SMO]

Thought this might interest a few:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4071976

Wattad transferring, eh? Hopefully we won't have to see him try to punk Singler again.

[BD80]

Willie Warren staying at OU

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9463436/Freshman-standout-Warren-won't-enter-NBA-draft

[JasonEvans]

Willie Warren staying at OU

http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9463436/Freshman-standout-Warren-won't-enter-NBA-draft

Two years in a row now Capel has convinced lottery picks to come back and make a run at a really special second season.

It certainly worked beautifully with Griffin. I think he will make more money as the #1 this year with a lot more with a lot more public awareness and endorsement possibilities than if he had come out last year and merely been a mid-lottery pick .

Warren isn't quite the prospect that Griffin was or is. I don't think there is much chance he will end up as the #1 pick next year and I think he was likely a mid-first rounder this year, probably a pick in the teens. Still, plenty of kids like that go early and Warren decided to stay.

OU figures to again be one of the better teams in the land next season. They have a fabulous 5-player recruiting class coming in with 2 Mickie Dees (PG Tommy Mason-Griffin, who is ridiculously strong for a PG and a great outside shooter, and big man Keith "Tiny" Gallon who is huge, but nimble and may remind you of Pitt's Dejaun Blair).

Keeping Warren to lead the new youngsters was key. Capel is building a lasting power at OU and it appears he will contend with Kansas every year for "best in the midwest" honors. Props!

--Jason "not for this thread, but when K retires, Capel has got to be one of the top contenders" Evans

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)

Oklahoma wasn't a particularly deep team this year and they are still losing 3 players. Granted they have a couple of top notch freshman coming in but I don't see them as a serious threat to Kansas next year. They are going to find out how important Blake really was.

[MIKESJ73]

Can we add a (NFL?) to Paulus' name?

[Indoor66]

Can we add a (NFL?) to Paulus' name?

I think the answer to that question is the same answer the old New Englander who was sitting on his porch rocking gave to the tourist who stopped and asked him if he had lived here all his life and the old guy paused, cocked his head back and replied "not yet."

[geraldsneighbor]

Yahoo is reporting Georgia Tech's Gani Lawal has entered his name in the NBA draft.

[FireOgilvie]

Ricky Rubio will enter the draft this year. There was some speculation he wouldn't due to complications with a buyout from his current team in Spain. He will undoubtedly go number 2 behind Blake Griffin. I think he's going to be a star, eventually. He's only 18 years old. He reminds me of Steve Nash... many people say he reminds them of Pete Maravich. He needs to improve his shot, but he has absolutely amazing court vision. Here's a great highlight reel... it's 10 minutes long, but it's set to Freebird...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSBLKrZCkeU

At 9:04 in the video, he steals the ball from Chris Paul (in the Olympics).

[JasonEvans]

Yahoo is reporting Georgia Tech's Gani Lawal has entered his name in the NBA draft.

Linky to AJC article (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/sports/gatech/stories/2009/04/20/georgia_tech_lawal_nba_draft.html) on this.

He is not hiring an agent and may come back--


Lawal’s father, Gani Lawal Sr., said he supports his son’s decision. He hopes, however, that Gani will return for his junior season to work on his management degree, as well as his basketball skills.

“I think there are some things he needs to work on: mid-range jumper, footwork, and build up his body some,” said Lawal, Sr., who is a real estate and mortgage broker.


I would think it would appeal to Lawal to play alongside Favors next year. That would be one fierce front-line. Of course, Lawal would likely be overshadowed by Favors, which could work against his draft stock. Next year is also supposed to be a slightly deeper draft.

Then again, Lawal is a classic late first rounder this year so guarnateed money is not at all a sure thing whether he comes out this year or next.

--Jason "Tech will be waay improved next year-- especially if Lawal stays" Evans

[JasonEvans]

I think we all knew this anyway, but Tyreke Evans has made it official (http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gOXecDSpJP7kWzqjd-bVbCpx-gRAD97MJS4G0)that he is going into the draft.

Says he is "testing the waters" but he is going to stay in the draft.

--Jason "I bet Tyreke goes about mid-teens" Evans

[roywhite]

Scottie Reynolds from Villanova and DeJuan Summers from Georgetown are two of the latest to declare for the draft.

Reynolds---don't see him as a 1st rounder...maybe he checks it out, and ends up returning to college?

Summers---he has the tools to succeed, though he (and his team) dropped off in the second half of the season. I could see him somewhere in the 15-20 range in the 1st round, which might mean he ends up going to the NBA this year.

[MChambers]

Scottie Reynolds from Villanova and DeJuan Summers from Georgetown are two of the latest to declare for the draft.

Reynolds---don't see him as a 1st rounder...maybe he checks it out, and ends up returning to college?

Summers---he has the tools to succeed, though he (and his team) dropped off in the second half of the season. I could see him somewhere in the 15-20 range in the 1st round, which might mean he ends up going to the NBA this year.

Summers is gone. Gone. Not coming back to Georgetown. Thompson's statement was very clear about that.

Summers may not make the NBA, however.

[gofurman]

Has Stephen Curry entered?

Does anyone have a complete listing of entered? with agent/ without agent

[geraldsneighbor]

Reynolds will go undrafted if he stays in. This is most likely a grab at attention. He is a shoot first pg with a suspect jump shot.

[JasonEvans]

Has Stephen Curry entered?

Does anyone have a complete listing of entered? with agent/ without agent

NBADraft.net has this page, (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009earlyentry) that seems to have a pretty good list and describes the prospects of each player in addition to their "signed with agent" status.

Worth noting that the NBADraft.net list is somewhat suspect as it lists Gerald as having announced when he has not yet. Still, everyone except the people in the Duke program have said that G will leave so I don't think NBADRaft.net is being too absurd to list him among the declared.

As for Curry, the concensus is similar to Gerald. Everyone says he is going to declare except for the folks close to him. In both cases it may be that the people close to the player/program want to let the player make his own statement in his own time.

--Jason "hard to recall any kids where there were this many leaks that he would leave but the player ended up staying" Evans

[MChambers]

NBADraft.net has this page, (http://www.nbadraft.net/2009earlyentry) that seems to have a pretty good list and describes the prospects of each player in addition to their "signed with agent" status.

Worth noting that the NBADraft.net list is somewhat suspect as it lists Gerald as having announced when he has not yet. Still, everyone except the people in the Duke program have said that G will leave so I don't think NBADRaft.net is being too absurd to list him among the declared.

As for Curry, the concensus is similar to Gerald. Everyone says he is going to declare except for the folks close to him. In both cases it may be that the people close to the player/program want to let the player make his own statement in his own time.

--Jason "hard to recall any kids where there were this many leaks that he would leave but the player ended up staying" Evans

I remember John Thompson insisting on his radio show that Jason Williams was leaving in 2001. So take all these experts with a grain of salt.

[JasonEvans]

I remember John Thompson insisting on his radio show that Jason Williams was leaving in 2001. So take all these experts with a grain of salt.

Seth Davis too. In fact, back before he was too big and important to talk to people like me, Seth and I knew each other a little bit and we made a friendly wager (dinner) over whether Jason would come back for 2002.

Seth still owes me dinner ;)

-Jason "if you are reading this Seth, email me and PAY UP!!" Evans

[BD80]

Is there still a limit on how many times one can declare and withdraw?

I remember a rule that an underclassman could only withdraw his name once after having submitted his name as an early entry. Thus, Lawson would not be able to withdraw his name if he declares again this year. Is that still the rule?

[FireOgilvie]

Is there still a limit on how many times one can declare and withdraw?

I remember a rule that an underclassman could only withdraw his name once after having submitted his name as an early entry. Thus, Lawson would not be able to withdraw his name if he declares again this year. Is that still the rule?

Yes, that rule is still in place.

[Duke #33]

It has been stated, but here (http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-villanova-reynoldsdraft&prov=ap&type=lgns) is a link to Reynolds decison to test the waters.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?), Ellington 6-4 (NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (4) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8, Reynolds 6-2 (NBA?)
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)

[JasonEvans]

There is nothing new in this article on USA Today's blog (http://blogs.usatoday.com/bracketracket/2009/04/report-curry-will-put-name-in-nba-draft.html) about Stephen Curry reportedly deciding to enter the draft, but I just had to link it so everyone could enjoy the following line:


CBS Sportsline's Gary Parrish reports that DraftExpress.com's Jonathan Givony says Curry will enter the draft.

So, I am reading USA Today to hear that CBS Sportsline is reporting that DraftExpress is reporting that it heard that Curry would enter the draft.

Bwahahahahahahahahahaha!!

--Jason "my mother's neighbor heard from her sister's boyfriend's cousin who got his TV repaired by a guy who has a friend who is very close the to Duke program that Gerald Henderson is declaring for the draft" Evans

[yancem]

--Jason "my mother's neighbor heard from her sister's boyfriend's cousin who got his TV repaired by a guy who has a friend who is very close the to Duke program that Gerald Henderson is declaring for the draft" Evans

This kind of rock solid information is exactly what we need on this board! Can I have have the TV repair man's friend's phone number? I want to get his advice on who to bet on for the nba playoffs!

[gw67]

From the list of the top 25 teams provided above, it appears that the Big East will take a hit. UConn, Louisville, Pitt, Villanova, Syracuse and Marquette will all lose many of their top and/or experienced players. The Hoyas also lose a top player and the Irish lose some starters. Like the ACC, many of their teams will rely on underclassmen next year.

gw67

[shoutingncu]

Is there still a limit on how many times one can declare and withdraw?

I remember a rule that an underclassman could only withdraw his name once after having submitted his name as an early entry. Thus, Lawson would not be able to withdraw his name if he declares again this year. Is that still the rule?

This could be why there has been no word yet on Lawson and Ellington... a message board theory is that they are waiting until the deadline since they can't come back after declaring.

In essence, they wouldn't want to declare, dive off a frat house balcony and get injured, or play music too loudly on a Chapel Hill street corner, and then be unable to return.

http://www.draftexpress.com/blog/Jonathan-Givony/#NBA-Draft-Roundup-April-22-3189

[crimsonandblue]

Taggart at Memphis is testing (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9435018/Sources:-Memphis'-Taggart-to-test-draft-waters). Actually, I think he's graduating and with Calipari gone, may not care where he's projected...

[Duke #33]

Tennessee forward Tyler Smith declared for the draft, but won't hire an agent. Link: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-tennessee-smith&prov=ap&type=lgns

[yancem]

Anyone else starting to get worried that Lawson and Ellington may not declare for the draft? I know that they can't back out once the declare since they have already used their "free test the waters pass" but I'm surprised that at least Lawson hasn't declared. Lawson said that he would have stayed in the draft last year if he was guaranteed of be pick in the top 20 and I can't see him dropping past 20 this year. I can see Ellington's hesitation. Even though he had a solid year and addressed most of his question marks, it still looks like he could drop to the second round.

Anyway, I'm starting to get a little nervous. Now, if Henderson stays and we sign Wall, then I say I hope they stay. The potential match-ups in that scenario would be awesome!

[geraldsneighbor]

Anyone else starting to get worried that Lawson and Ellington may not declare for the draft? I know that they can't back out once the declare since they have already used their "free test the waters pass" but I'm surprised that at least Lawson hasn't declared. Lawson said that he would have stayed in the draft last year if he was guaranteed of be pick in the top 20 and I can't see him dropping past 20 this year. I can see Ellington's hesitation. Even though he had a solid year and addressed most of his question marks, it still looks like he could drop to the second round.

Anyway, I'm starting to get a little nervous. Now, if Henderson stays and we sign Wall, then I say I hope they stay. The potential match-ups in that scenario would be awesome!

There is a report I read that since they already tested the waters they are waiting as long as they can in case something happened and they got hurt working out they could still come back to school. Really, not a bad idea because declaring last week and declaring Sunday is all the same.

[shoutingncu]

There is a report I read that since they already tested the waters they are waiting as long as they can in case something happened and they got hurt working out they could still come back to school. Really, not a bad idea because declaring last week and declaring Sunday is all the same.

And I think Lawson is waiting for Ellington so they can announce together. There is no McCants this year to hold a press conference independent of the other(s).

Is it wrong I almost hope Ty stubs his toe again on Saturday? You can have Wall if we can have Ty back.

[Duke #33]

It says that Curry will annouce his decision Thursday about staying in college or declaring for the draft. Link:http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-davidson-curry&prov=ap&type=lgns

[Duke #33]

I've never heard of him(probably because he plays for BYU), but he has declared for the draft. Link:http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-byu-tavernari&prov=ap&type=lgns

[FerryFor50]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/ncaa/04/23/unc/index.html

[superdave]

I wont miss seeing these guys.

I still enjoy the "Lawson, Ellington and Green didnt want to come back to win a title, they just had no place to go" mantra. Sour grapes on my part, but so be it.

Larry Drew is not ready. They will be very lucky to have Ginyard back.

[FerryFor50]

I just hope this doesn't inspire Roy to make a harder push at Wall.

[roywhite]

I wont miss seeing these guys.

I still enjoy the "Lawson, Ellington and Green didnt want to come back to win a title, they just had no place to go" mantra. Sour grapes on my part, but so be it.

Larry Drew is not ready. They will be very lucky to have Ginyard back.


Clarification on your point about Ginyard? Is there an issue about his return, or possibly about his long term health? Or are you just saying that his return is fortunate for their team next year?

[FerryFor50]

I wont miss seeing these guys.

I still enjoy the "Lawson, Ellington and Green didnt want to come back to win a title, they just had no place to go" mantra. Sour grapes on my part, but so be it.

Larry Drew is not ready. They will be very lucky to have Ginyard back.


Clarification on your point about Ginyard? Is there an issue about his return, or possibly about his long term health? Or are you just saying that his return is fortunate for their team next year?

I think he means that they were lucky he red-shirted this year, as they won the NC and now have some depth at PG next season.

[JDev]

I think he means that they were lucky he red-shirted this year, as they won the NC and now have some depth at PG next season.

I think they are still relatively thin at PG, as Ginyard is not really a PG. You are correct though in the sense that they will obviously need him next year more than they would have this year.

[CDu]

I think he means that they were lucky he red-shirted this year, as they won the NC and now have some depth at PG next season.

Ginyard is by no means a PG. He's a solid defensive wing player and a pretty good athlete, but that's about it. His offensive game is very limited. He's not really adding to their PG depth next year.

[superdave]

Larry Drew played 4-5 minutes per game this year, Dexter Strickland will be a freshman. So they will be lucky to have Ginyard to bring some stability.

Drew is not that good. And that team wont be able to run as well either.

[Matches]

I do expect them to step up pursuit of Wall now, using the excuse that they weren't recruiting him before but that circumstances have changed with Lawson leaving.

As if everyone in that program hasn't known for months that Lawson was gone...

[CMS2478]

I do expect them to step up pursuit of Wall now, using the excuse that they weren't recruiting him before but that circumstances have changed with Lawson leaving.

As if everyone in that program hasn't known for months that Lawson was gone...

Yes, they are now claiming to have "sources" that bc of Ellington and Lawson leaving Wall to UNC is a done deal. Yet, I go over to the UK boards and they claim to have "sources" from their premium information that say that Wall to UK is a done deal. So someone explain to me how Wall to UNC and UK is a done deal? :confused:

[FerryFor50]

Yes, they are now claiming to have "sources" that bc of Ellington and Lawson leaving Wall to UNC is a done deal. Yet, I go over to the UK boards and they claim to have "sources" from their premium information that say that Wall to UK is a done deal. So someone explain to me how Wall to UNC and UK is a done deal? :confused:

That's what they call "wishful thinking". :D

[CameronBornAndBred]

I'm happier to see Ellington go than Lawson. (I'm happy both are leaving). Ellington is a hell of a shooter, when he was hot he couldn't miss from anywhere.

[johaad]

He just announced on ESPN

[coldriver10]

I'm watching his PC on ESPN. He'll hire an agent, so he's done at Davidson.

Lawson and Ellington will announce their decisions at 2:30 at a PC televised by ESPNews.

[moonpie23]

gone..

man, he was really hyper-ventilating trying to get that thing out..

good luck steph


oops....had seth in the title.......DOH!

[coldriver10]

umm...Stephen. Stephen Curry. :p

[DukeDevilDeb]

Stephen Curry, not Seth? If you really mean Seth, he may hold the all-time record for shortest time in a Duke uniform of anyone?!?! :D

[johaad]

He seemed really nervous about the decision. It seemed like he was about to cry. I'm glad to see he really thought about it before making the choice.

[moonpie23]

i can only imagine what the scene was there with so much attention on him....


good luck man...can't wait to see you do your thing on the big-boys floor..

[Billy Dat]

I may be overstating it, but I think Lawson is the primary reason, by far, we lost to them every single time he faced us....certainly the last 3 times.

[geraldsneighbor]

I may be overstating it, but I think Lawson is the primary reason, by far, we lost to them every single time he faced us....certainly the last 3 times.

Agreed. He got to the hole when he wanted to.

[BD80]

Yes, they are now claiming to have "sources" that bc of Ellington and Lawson leaving Wall to UNC is a done deal. Yet, I go over to the UK boards and they claim to have "sources" from their premium information that say that Wall to UK is a done deal. So someone explain to me how Wall to UNC and UK is a done deal? :confused:

The answer is simple, they don't spell well. Wall is a DUN deal for unc and uk. They are still at the plaguing and pestering stage.

[Matches]

I may be overstating it, but I think Lawson is the primary reason, by far, we lost to them every single time he faced us....certainly the last 3 times.

No question. It's not a coincidence that the one game we beat them over the last few years was the one he missed with injury.

[UrinalCake]

In essence, they wouldn't want to declare, dive off a frat house balcony and get injured, or play music too loudly on a Chapel Hill street corner, and then be unable to return.

What does "declaring" really mean? I assume that the player's agent (or a representative from the school, if the player doesn't have an agent) fills out paperwork and submits it to some NBA office. But when a player holds a press conference, he probably hasn't actually done that yet. So why not hold a press conference as soon as you know you're going to leave, then wait until the deadline to actually submit the paperwork? I assume the NBA won't hold you to what you verbally said to the press if you change your mind before submitting the paperwork.

Reminds me of that episode of The Office where Michael shouts "I declare bankruptcy!"

[Scorp4me]

I just hope this doesn't inspire Roy to make a harder push at Wall.

You obviously didn't see the comments about UNC not even being considered from Wall. He made them look bad and the best thing that could happen is for Wall to head to Carolina. I'm sorry, it'll look great short term, but the more I see the more I think long term it's a bad proposition.

[CDu]

Larry Drew played 4-5 minutes per game this year, Dexter Strickland will be a freshman. So they will be lucky to have Ginyard to bring some stability.

Drew is not that good. And that team wont be able to run as well either.

I don't disagree about Drew or Strickland. But Ginyard doesn't add any more stability in my opinion. He's a defensive specialist who has played exclusively off the ball in his career. He wasn't good offensively as a wing, so to expect him to provide anything at PG would be wildly optimistic.

Drew is not a great PG, but he's at least familiar with the position.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA), Ellington 6-4 (NBA)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (4) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8, Reynolds 6-2 (NBA?)
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)

That is good news regarding Ellington and Lawson. Even if they get Wall, UNC is going to have problems from 3 next year. While Lawson was a jet, he was very underrated as a 3 point set shooter. Good luck getting that shot off in the pros! Lawson was 47% from 3 last year. Green and Ellington were both 42% from 3. Ginyard will probably be their best 3-point shooter next year. For comparisons, Duke will return their top two 3-pt shooters; Scheyer at 39% and Singler at 38%.

[roywhite]

Leslie McDonald should get some playing time and help the Heels in the backcourt; he seems like a versatile scorer and defender, though again not a point guard. Wall would certainly help them, though I guess we're convinced Wall would help any team.

Seems like UNC never runs out of players, but it's hard to see them being anywhere near as good as they have been the last two years.

[coldriver10]

As expected, Lawson and Ellington are gone.

[Matches]

I don't disagree about Drew or Strickland. But Ginyard doesn't add any more stability in my opinion. He's a defensive specialist who has played exclusively off the ball in his career. He wasn't good offensively as a wing, so to expect him to provide anything at PG would be wildly optimistic.



Ginyard played some at the point (backing up QT) when Lawson was injured during the 2008 season. He's okay at the position for limited minutes.

[dukeENG2003]

Ginyard played some at the point (backing up QT) when Lawson was injured during the 2008 season. He's okay at the position for limited minutes.

Dude, he was TERRIBLE at point in those games. I hope he is their starting PG in the same way I wish Matt Doherty was still their head coach. . .

[CDu]

Ginyard played some at the point (backing up QT) when Lawson was injured during the 2008 season. He's okay at the position for limited minutes.

Limited minutes at best. The guy is not remotely a PG. He doesn't provide them anything above what they'll get from Drew and the freshmen. It's a non-impact at that position. Unless they get Wall or one of Drew or the freshmen step up, PG is going to be a weakness. Ginyard isn't bringing anything to the table at that position.

[Matches]

Dude, he was TERRIBLE at point in those games. I hope he is their starting PG in the same way I wish Matt Doherty was still their head coach. . .

I don't remember him being that bad. Clearly the guy is not a playmaker but he seemed to be able to hold onto the ball for the most part. I don't think anyone would trumpet him as "the answer" at PG but he does provide them with a semi-competent backup for Drew.

Unless they get Wall, Drew's development will be the key. I don't see him as all that great either, but one never knows how someone will progress between seasons, particularly freshman to sophomore.

[sandinmyshoes]

How many point guards would Lawson have kept on the bench this year? I'm not sold on Drew being a bad player. I'm not swallowing that bait!

That said, there is no way Drew can be as good as Lawson. So unless there is significant improvement elsewhere on the court, they simply are not going to be as good as last year. But since they won the championship by double figures this year, that still leaves them the possibility of being a dangerous team.

I don't even want to think about Wall ending up there. Thankfully the most recent info doesn't seem to indicate much chance of that happening.

[CDu]

I don't think anyone would trumpet him as "the answer" at PG but he does provide them with a semi-competent backup for Drew.

Based on that description, I'd argue that Strickland is the better bet for backup PG. He's at least a combo guard offensively.

But I agree - unless one of Drew or the freshmen steps up (or they get Wall), UNC's point guard position is going to be a weakness. That's a rarity in the Williams era - he's almost exclusively been VERY strong at PG.

[Matches]

That said, there is no way Drew can be as good as Lawson. So unless there is significant improvement elsewhere on the court, they simply are not going to be as good as last year. But since they won the championship by double figures this year, that still leaves them the possibility of being a dangerous team.



Clearly they will not be as explosive as they were in 2009, but I could see their defense improving significantly with Davis logging big minutes in the post. He is a tremendous shot-blocker and will keep people out of the lane.

[FerryFor50]

You obviously didn't see the comments about UNC not even being considered from Wall. He made them look bad and the best thing that could happen is for Wall to head to Carolina. I'm sorry, it'll look great short term, but the more I see the more I think long term it's a bad proposition.

I didn't miss anything... Wall never said anything about UNC from what I've seen. Clifton, his handler, is the one who doesn't like UNC. The decision is still Wall's.

[sandinmyshoes]

Clearly they will not be as explosive as they were in 2009, but I could see their defense improving significantly with Davis logging big minutes in the post. He is a tremendous shot-blocker and will keep people out of the lane.

I too think defense could be their area of most improvement. However, having only one true point guard my cause some problems with that. They can hardly afford to have Drew in foul trouble. If Strickland or anyone else for that matter proves to be a capable five to ten minute a game back up, then their defensive improvement could be notable.

[Duke #33]

Uconn freshman enters the draft, but intends to come back. Here http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-uconn-majok&prov=ap&type=lgns is a link.

[Duke #33]

Maryland guard Greivis Vasquez will enter his name in the NBA draft, but won't hire an agent. Link:http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-maryland-vasquez&prov=ap&type=lgns

[JasonEvans]

Uconn freshman enters the draft, but intends to come back. Here http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-uconn-majok&prov=ap&type=lgns is a link.

It is worth noting that Majok has been connected to corrupt former UConn manager turned wannabe agent Josh Nochimson. While most of the allegations surrounding Nochimson involved him steering Nate Miles to UConn (and allegedly talking with UConn coaches about it), there is an investigation into whether Nochimson also provided extra benefits to Majok.

Majok may be declaring for the draft because he is pretty sure he will not be able to play ball at UConn anyway.

--Jason "the stink around UConn is nasty!" Evans

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA), Ellington 6-4 (NBA)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (4) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8, Reynolds 6-2 (NBA?)
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (3) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5, Henderson 6-5 (NBA?)
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)

[CDu]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA), Ellington 6-4 (NBA)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (4) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8, Reynolds 6-2 (NBA?)
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (3) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5, Henderson 6-5 (NBA?)
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)
Butler (0)


Kansas looks VERY strong for next year with the returning players they have and the freshmen they have coming in. They were already strong at PG and strong in the post, and they're now getting stronger on the wings.

[Duke #33]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.



[24]Arizona (2) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA)



You should add Nic Wise (NBA?) to Arizona's list.This is a little bit old(4/17), but I looked at the chart and noticed he wasn't on it. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/157887-arizona-pg-wise-enters-nba-draft

[Duke #33]

Mississippi State forward Jarvis Varnado announced Monday that he has declared for the NBA draft but won’t hire an agent. Link: http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/basketball/news?slug=ap-missst-varnado&prov=ap&type=lgns

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA), Ellington 6-4 (NBA)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (4) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8, Reynolds 6-2 (NBA?)
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (3) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5, Henderson 6-5 (NBA?)
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (3) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA), Wise 5-10 (NBA?)
Butler (0)

[Newton_14]

There are now 76 U.S. College underclassmen that have declared for the draft.

Add in another 28 International declaree's and there are a total of 104 early entrant guys hoping to get drafted. That does not include college seniors who are eligible as well.

Trouble is there are only 60 spots in the 2 rounds of the NBA draft. So at least 44 of the early entrants will go undrafted.

Some will pull out and return to school of course, but that is still a large number that for sure will not get picked.

It would be interesting to revisit the list a year from now and see how many of the early entrant guys that did not pull out, ended up on an NBA roster, or ended up in the NBDL, Overseas, or out of luck altogether.

[Bluedog]

Patterson to return to Kentucky

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g2NquGuaD_aYCeuxCw43H8zjk_1QD982AI780

[geraldsneighbor]

Patterson to return to Kentucky

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5g2NquGuaD_aYCeuxCw43H8zjk_1QD982AI780

Wow. Things are getting very interesting. I thought he was surely going to stay in being he was a top 25 pick at worst.

[MarkD83]

There are now 76 U.S. College underclassmen that have declared for the draft.

Add in another 28 International declaree's and there are a total of 104 early entrant guys hoping to get drafted. That does not include college seniors who are eligible as well.

Trouble is there are only 60 spots in the 2 rounds of the NBA draft. So at least 44 of the early entrants will go undrafted.

Some will pull out and return to school of course, but that is still a large number that for sure will not get picked.

It would be interesting to revisit the list a year from now and see how many of the early entrant guys that did not pull out, ended up on an NBA roster, or ended up in the NBDL, Overseas, or out of luck altogether.

You could revisit this every year and every year the players do not learn. The NBA GMs are in a cut throat business and like any business the best way to get a deal is for supply to exceed demand. No matter how good or bad a player is I guarantee that any GM that is any good will tell a player they are better than they are. Agents will do the same thing. They need a large supply of players in order make the most money.

I have tried to not comment on G's situation or Wall's or anyone else that want to get to the NBA. However, fair warning to anyone that wants to go to the NBA. This is all about business and your worth will always be inflated by GMs and agents so that there will be ample players in the draft. Ample players in the draft means that so good to great players will be available in the 2nd round or be free agents and GMs can get good/great players inexpensively.

[MarkD83]

Sorry about the grammar. I can't seem to get back in to fix it.

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA), Ellington 6-4 (NBA)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (3) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5, Henderson 6-5 (NBA)
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (3) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA), Wise 5-10 (NBA?)
Butler (0)

[Cell-R]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (5) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA), Ellington 6-4 (NBA)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (4) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Price 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA)
Kansas (0)
Duke (3) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5, Henderson 6-5 (NBA)
Syracuse (3) - Flynn 6-0 (NBA), Harris 6-4 (NBA), Devendorf 6-4 (NBA)
Gonzaga (4) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11, Daye 6-10 (NBA?)
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (4) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9, Holliday 6-3 (NBA?)
ASU (2) - Pendergraph 6-9, Harden 6-5 (NBA)
WFU (3) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA), Teague 6-2 (NBA?)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (3) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10, James 6-5 (NBA?)
Arizona (3) - Budinger 6-6 (NBA), Hill 6-10 (NBA), Wise 5-10 (NBA?)
Butler (0)


I don't understand how people think UNC will be in the Top 10 after losing talent like that. Sure they will have an amazing recruiting class, and decent players, but even the best freshman won't make up for the experience they are losing.

[whereinthehellami]

I don't understand how people think UNC will be in the Top 10 after losing talent like that. Sure they will have an amazing recruiting class, and decent players, but even the best freshman won't make up for the experience they are losing.

I think its natural to feel that way after looking at their list of departures. But once you look at the talent they have returning and the recruits they have coming in, you start to see the depth of talent that they have stockpiled. The question quickly becomes, what teams would you put in the top 10 ahead of them? Especially towards the end of next season. UNC could become a force by the end of the season. They have all the pieces, they just have to put them together and I wouldn't count Roy out from doing just that.

[NSDukeFan]

I think its natural to feel that way after looking at their list of departures. But once you look at the talent they have returning and the recruits they have coming in, you start to see the depth of talent that they have stockpiled. The question quickly becomes, what teams would you put in the top 10 ahead of them? Especially towards the end of next season. UNC could become a force by the end of the season. They have all the pieces, they just have to put them together and I wouldn't count Roy out from doing just that.

It seems appropriate that your 666th post stated that UNC will be good next year. Unfortunately, I have to agree with you, though I like Duke's chances against them next year.

[Cell-R]

*Sigh*

I just wish they could have a rebuilding year...
Although I am happy that we have a chance against them this coming season :D

[whereinthehellami]

Below is a list of the ESPN/USA mens Top 25 teams with the players that they are losing, either to senior attrition, the draft, or to transfer. Only players who averaged over 10 MPG are included.

I did this last year (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3)also, in case anyone wants to compare.


UNC (4) - Hansborough 6-9, Green 6-5, Frasor 6-2, Lawson 5-11(NBA?)
MSU (2) - Suton 6-10, Walton 6-2
UCONN (3) - Adrien 6-7, Austrie 6-3, Thabeet 7-3 (NBA?)
Villanova (3) - Clark 6-7, Anderson 6-6, Cunningham 6-8
Louisville (3) - Williams 6-6, McGee 5-10, Clark 6-7 (NBA)
Pitt (4) - Fields 5-10, Biggs 6-8, Young 6-8, Blair 6-7 (NBA?)
Oklahoma (3) - Johnson 6-3, Griffin 6-7, Griffin 6-10 (NBA)
Missouri (3) - Carrol 6-8, Lyons 6-9, Lawrence 6-7
Memphis (3) - Dozier 6-9, Anderson 6-6, Evans 6-6 (NBA?)
Kansas (0)
Duke (2) - Paulus 6-0, McClure 6-5
Syracuse (0)
Gonzaga (3) - Pargo 6-2, Downs 6-8, Heytvelt 6-11
Purdue (2) - Green 6-6, Calasan 6-9
Xavier (2) - Raymond 6-6, Anderson 6-6
Washington (2) - Dentmon 5-11, Brockman 6-7
LSU (4) - Thornton 6-4, Martin 6-6, Temple 6-6, Johnson 6-11
UCLA (3) - Collison 6-0, Shipp 6-4, Aboya 6-9
ASU (1) - Pendergraph 6-9
WFU (2) - Hale 6-3, Johnson 6-8 (NBA)
Marquette (4) - James 5-11, Burke 6-8, McNeil 6-3, Matthews 6-5
FSU (2) - Douglas 6-2, Echefu 6-8
Texas (2) - Abrams 5-11, Atchley 6-10
Arizona (0)
Butler (0)


While Kansas and Syracuse don't lose any seniors, alot depends on what Collins and Flynn do. Arizona and Butler don't lose any seniors and I'm not sure anyone on their teams could go in the first round, so they are looking good for a big move upwards next year.

I was looking at this same list (http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8688&page=3) from last year and its remarkable that Kansas made the sweet 16 this year and finished 10th after losing 7 players from last year.

Duke moved up 5 spots from last year, somewhat dissapointing with all that they had returning. If Henderson goes to the NBA than I'm not sure Duke would move up next year.

The big easy had teams finish 3rd thru 6th. Pretty impressive, though they lose alot for next year.

The above was from 04/09. You could see Butler coming from a mile away. Same with Syracuse. It was suprising that the Big East was as successful as they were with all that they had lost from last year.

[tbyers11]

The above was from 04/09. You could see Butler coming from a mile away. Same with Syracuse. It was suprising that the Big East was as successful as they were with all that they had lost from last year.

Except that Syracuse lost 3 starters: Johnny Flynn, Eric Devendorf and Paul Harris off their 08-09 team.

[dukelifer]

*Sigh*

I just wish they could have a rebuilding year...
Although I am happy that we have a chance against them this coming season :D

wish granted.

[Cell-R]

wish granted.

Haha WHOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

*sigh* I just wish they could have ANOTHER rebuilding year next year!!! :D

[Kdogg]

Except that Syracuse lost 3 starters: Johnny Flynn, Eric Devendorf and Paul Harris off their 08-09 team.

Yeah, but those guy's didn't play defendence.

[dball]

Yeah, but those guy's didn't play defendence.

Think most of the defendants were on Tennessee :)

[Kdogg]

Think most of the defendants were on Tennessee :)

I'm sorry. :) My eyes were dilated today so my vision and spelling are worse than usual.

[whereinthehellami]

Except that Syracuse lost 3 starters: Johnny Flynn, Eric Devendorf and Paul Harris off their 08-09 team.

Good catch. What happened to Arizona? injuries?