The Official Go Sparty Thread

[pfrduke]

Gentlemen of MSU - get it done.

[DUKIE V(A)]

Better get out on the shooters.

[eddiehaskell]

I had a positive outlook about 'Nova giving them a good game so I'm not giving MSU a chance in the world (maybe I can jinx the holes). :( :(

UNC has too many weapons...
-they're deadly behind the arc
-Lawson is possibly one of the most dominate players ever
-they're deadly inside (Hansbrough/Thompson/Davis)

With that said, right after the game, the local news reported that a mom and 3 yr old daughter died as a result of some kids street racing....kinda puts my "UNC winning sadness" in perspective.

[WiJoe]

Gee, Mr. Haskell ... maybe spartans can keep it under 10, but then have NO chance.

NONE

ZIP

ZILCH

ZERO

[BlueintheFace]

Slow down the game, shoot lights out, dominate!

[rthomas]

Can't really pull for Izzo. Meh....Ambivelent.

Bring on the Masters.

[DukeCO2009]

I would pull for a squad of Hitler, Saddam, Osama, Stalin, and Mao against those SOBs--with Pol Pot and Hirohito coming off the bench. The least you can do is throw Izzo some support. ;)

[eddiehaskell]

I would pull for a squad of Hitler, Saddam, Osama, Stalin, and Mao against those SOBs--with Pol Pot and Hirohito coming off the bench. The least you can do is throw Izzo some support. ;)I agree. For those who don't, just think of what you may see..

1. Danny Green dancing like he's never danced before
2. The media having a love affair with Hansbrough coming back to get his ring
3. Hansbrough's celabatory arm flailing thing
4. The trivia question "what team did former president Obama pick to win the '09 NCAA tournament?"

:eek:

[Kewlswim]

I agree. For those who don't, just think of what you may see..

1. Danny Green dancing like he's never danced before
2. The media having a love affair with Hansbrough coming back to get his ring
3. Hansbrough's celabatory arm flailing thing
4. The trivia question "what team did former president Obama pick to win the '09 NCAA tournament?"

:eek:

Goodness, please win MSU!! Maybe MSU will spring a super-duper upset. It is possible.

GO DUKE!

[dukemsu]

State has a massive challenge ahead, but I think they have at least a puncher's chance. The problem won't be on the interior-State handled a superior interior team to UNC tonight. The problem will be on the perimeter, where UNC overmatches State in a big way.

Still, I think it was nice of the Spartans to put UConn basketball under Calhoun on life support. The NCAA will likely finish the job and send Calhoun into retirement.

dukemsu

[Kewlswim]

State has a massive challenge ahead, but I think they have at least a puncher's chance. The problem won't be on the interior-State handled a superior interior team to UNC tonight. The problem will be on the perimeter, where UNC overmatches State in a big way.

Still, I think it was nice of the Spartans to put UConn basketball under Calhoun on life support. The NCAA will likely finish the job and send Calhoun into retirement.

dukemsu

Hi,

I'll be rooting hard for those Spartans.

GO DUKE!

[mph]

Can't really pull for Izzo. Meh....Ambivelent.

Bring on the Masters.

Good call on the Masters. Why don't you like Izzo?

[Buckeye Devil]

Now I don't feel so bad about thinking that the Spartans deserved a 1 seed and while I didn't think they would beat UConn, I did say that if anyone could pull the upset that Izzo would be the one. I have the same thinking about UNC. Ultimately they will have too many options for the Spartans to control.

MSU is not as bad on the perimeter as one might think and they play solid defense. Plus they have fouls to waste by going 8 or 9 deep. If Lawson drives and gets past the first line of defense, he will get knocked down a time or two by Ebok, Green, or Sutan. And let's face it, UNC shot an great % on 3's and overpowered 'Nova inside. This will not happen against MSU. I can almost talk myself into predicting an upset.

[weezie]

Danny Green dancing like he's never danced before...a love affair with Hansbrough coming back to get his ring...
Hansbrough's celebratory arm flailing.......The trivia question "what team did former president Obama pick to win the '09 NCAA tournament?"


My nightmare from last night:(

Sparty, Sparty save me!!!!

[chrishoke]

This is a no-brainer. My brother is strength coach for Mich St. Football. Go Spartans. Kill the beast.

[davekay1971]

I agree. For those who don't, just think of what you may see..

1. Danny Green dancing like he's never danced before
2. The media having a love affair with Hansbrough coming back to get his ring
3. Hansbrough's celabatory arm flailing thing
4. The trivia question "what team did former president Obama pick to win the '09 NCAA tournament?"

:eek:


You will see all of that if the 'Holes win. It will be unbearable to watch.

Add to the above, the announcer waxing poetic as the game comes to a close, "Tyler Hansbrough...one of the greatest careers...ever...came back to get the job done...and now...about to be...an NCAA champion. A fitting cap to perhaps the greatest college career...of all time."

I threw up twice just writing that. I think I'm breaking out with hives. Where's my albuterol inhaler?! My vision is fading...call...911...

[darkblue2769]

Heh, I get to watch this game at UNC, with my Carolina friends, as it is conveniently timed to be right after I attend an admitted students weekend at Duke. I was planning on just going to visit them all and have dinner, but nooooooooo. They (and all of their classmates) are going to throw garbage at me when I show up in Spartan green!

[DukePA]

Heh, I get to watch this game at UNC, with my Carolina friends, as it is conveniently timed to be right after I attend an admitted students weekend at Duke. I was planning on just going to visit them all and have dinner, but nooooooooo. They (and all of their classmates) are going to throw garbage at me when I show up in Spartan green!

Keep the faith!! GTHc!!

[Ben63]

Izzo has always been one of my favoite coaches. He might become my all time favorite (besides K) if he pulls this one off.

GO MSU!!!!!!!

[bluebuck]

Go Sparty Go!

Please save us!

[Newton_14]

Dear Michigan State Nation,
For this one night, we join you as brothers in your war against evil. Please pull out and deploy all weapons available to you and use them to eliminate this evil threat and prevent them from destroying all that is good! Find a way MSU and get this done. We are pulling for you and we offer any and all resources we have to you, if you need it, to prepare for this great battle.

Go MSU!
GTHC GTH
9F 9F 9F

[godukecom]

I give Michigan State about a 0% chance of winning. as much as I hate to say it, the bad boys will be winning monday night. sigh.

I bring a haiku from 2005 on this board (well the old board, but DBR) to help us in these bad times. This was posted the day after they won it all in 2005; I would give credit but I cannot remember its author!

Baby blue tar holes
playing with their new trophy
where is the justice?

[msdukie]

This is a no-brainer. My brother is strength coach for Mich St. Football. Go Spartans. Kill the beast.

This is a no-brainer. I went to Duke.

[DU Band Prez 88]

I give Michigan State about a 0% chance of winning. as much as I hate to say it, the bad boys will be winning monday night. sigh.

I bring a haiku from 2005 on this board (well the old board, but DBR) to help us in these bad times. This was posted the day after they won it all in 2005; I would give credit but I cannot remember its author!

Baby blue tar holes
playing with their new trophy
where is the justice?
Michigan State wins tomorrow night. Enjoy the game!

[dukemsu]

Hi,

I'll be rooting hard for those Spartans.

GO DUKE!

Thanks Kewl!

UNC has a tough environment tomorrow-there will be 50,000 Spartans in the building as I am sure the entire state of Michigan is looking for tickets today. Problem is, if there is one group of guys ready to face down that sort of environment, it is the Heels. They look awfully focused.

State has to survive the early punches. UNC will surely try to eliminate the crowd and come with an early onslaught. If they can keep it within 2 possessions in the last 10 minutes, things could get interesting.

Carolina is favored and should be. But I think State will give them one serious fight.

dukemsu

[dukestheheat]

Michigan State is our ONLY hope.

Go men, go!

dth.

[kmspeaks]

"The world will know that free men stood against a tyrant, that few stood against many, and before this battle was over, even a god-king can bleed."

GO SPARTANS!!!

Make those tarholes bleed, cry, and most of all LOSE!

[sandinmyshoes]

My concern: Everything is building up to a perfect storm for MSU. The battered city angle, the revenge for a thumping angle, 70,000 screaming fans angle. It's beginning to sound like UNC is the underdog.

Why is that a concern? Because Williams can use all that to put an "us against the world" chip on his team's shoulder. And because we all know that UNC will probably get 20,000 fans into the place. Out numbered, yes, but not by the usual home court percentage.

[brsett]

State has a massive challenge ahead, but I think they have at least a puncher's chance. The problem won't be on the interior-State handled a superior interior team to UNC tonight. The problem will be on the perimeter, where UNC overmatches State in a big way.

Still, I think it was nice of the Spartans to put UConn basketball under Calhoun on life support. The NCAA will likely finish the job and send Calhoun into retirement.

dukemsu

I never believed in the Spartans (I think because I watched that ACC-big 11 challenge game). But I guess you are correct, and they really are a good team now. I don't think they'll win tonight, but my thinking they aren't going to win sure hasn't stopped them yet in the tourney . . .

I am always glad to see uconn lose. I won't be at all upset if this offseason dooms that program forever. I don't like Gary Williams, but he's a straight shooter, and he truly believes that program is dirty. I tend to take his word for it.

[BlueDevilBaby]

I agree. For those who don't, just think of what you may see..

1. Danny Green dancing like he's never danced before
2. The media having a love affair with Hansbrough coming back to get his ring
3. Hansbrough's celabatory arm flailing thing
4. The trivia question "what team did former president Obama pick to win the '09 NCAA tournament?"

:eek:

I think I'll watch Heroes instead, twice even.

[Matches]

The silver lining:

One way or another - this will be the last sighting of Hanstravel in the baby blue.

[Bostondevil]

"Tyler Hansbrough...one of the greatest careers...ever...came back to get the job done...and now...about to be...an NCAA champion. A fitting cap to perhaps the greatest college career...of all time."



Yes, they will probably say it, but it won't be true.

Best college careers of all time, Laettner, Walton, and Alcinder. That's my order, YMMV, but those are the top three. If you didn't win at least 2 NCAA Tourney's, I can't even consider you as part of the discussion.

[huied]

Carolina is favored and should be. But I think State will give them one serious fight.

dukemsu

I feel like this line has been repeated since Gonzaga (maybe even LSU) and it's been met with blow outs each time. Sigh...

That being said, I still haven't given up the hope that the holes will lose! I'd say 80% of the people at my work are UNC fans, so unless the improbable happens tonight I might have use one of my "sick" days.

Go MSU.

[superdave]

Unc should win tonight, but the NCAA tourney has a lot of cinderella history associated with it. And what a great story it would be for Detroit/Michigan.

I have not see MSU play much this year but have read a lot about Kalin Lucas lately. He could be Lawson's downfall. MSU appears to be more athletic.

I think shutting down Green and Ellington is the key. Make them catch the ball where they dont want to and make them try to create their own shots rather than spot up. MSU has enough size to body up Unc inside while helping on Lawson's drives.

But they are not going to completely stop Lawson or Unc, just have to keep them off-balance and score very efficiently themselves.

Lesser teams have beaten Unc at full strength this year...

[MChambers]

How many MSU players will make an NBA roster? I'm really not sure, having only watched a few of their games, but I'm sure it's far less than UNC. Still, I think MSU has a good shot, especially if they attack UNC the way they attacked UConn.

[DukieInKansas]

This is a no-brainer. My brother is strength coach for Mich St. Football. Go Spartans. Kill the beast.

Works as a reason for me. I'll root for MSU because your brother works there. My sister's best friend from high school went there also - two reasons to root for MSU instead of ABC. :D

[CathyCA]

9F 9F 9F

That's why I'm rooting for the Spartans tonight.

[whereinthehellami]

I just don't see how MSU has a chance. I'd be suprised if it was even close. I usually record all UNC games that are on TV and watch later if UNC is losing. I'm not even going to record the game tonight. I'd prefer to cut my dog's hair than watch the smurfs cruise to a championship.

[Devilsfan]

This is a good night to catch up on some reading. Unless I hear to home town boys are up 5 with 2 to play.

[dukemsu]

How many MSU players will make an NBA roster? I'm really not sure, having only watched a few of their games, but I'm sure it's far less than UNC. Still, I think MSU has a good shot, especially if they attack UNC the way they attacked UConn.

Most to least likely to play NBA-

Lucas (likely, as a third/fourth guard)
Summers (likely, same as above)
Suton (possible)
Morgan (possible)
Roe (totally dependent on health/microfracture recovery)

State is not as "untalented" as a lot of people think. The Heels are more talented, sure, but I don't see an NBA star on their roster, either, with the possible exception of Ellington or Davis.

Still, the Heels are favored and should be. I see them jumping out early, State fighting back, and the Heels pulling away late on free throws. 86-79.

dukemsu

[brevity]

In a world where Billy Donovan has 2 titles, surely we can spot Tom Izzo his second.

Really, it all boils down to a photogenic Michigan State guard. 1979? Magic Johnson, nice smile. 2000? Mateen Cleaves, nice smile.

By comparison, Kalin Lucas looks kind of serious. But Korie Lucious more than makes up for it.

[bjornolf]

Definitely pulling hard for MSU tonight. Go Green! (That's what my MSU alum friends told me to yell. I swear it's not for the Green that wears baby blue. I'm so confused...) :confused:

[House G]

This is a good night to catch up on some reading. Unless I hear to home town boys are up 5 with 2 to play.
Also a good night to watch Jack Bauer, if you are a 24 fan.

[Rogue]

Short and Sweet.. GO MICH ST.. make the next 9 months bareable in the land of fadded bleu Imp Wanna beeees :cool:

[dukebsbll14]

Also a good night to watch Jack Bauer, if you are a 24 fan.


yep I'm watching 24 and studying for my AP Calc test. I have no intention of watching this game; UNC wins every time I watch, so I'll abstain.

Please please please win tonight MSU. I just want to see Hillsbrough's reaction after the game and hear him tell reporters, "this season was a failure" (in true Tar Hole player fashion the idea that he got his degree will mean absolutely to him-even if it is in basket-weaving)


Come on MSU!

[mgtr]

The current Las Vegas line is UNC -7.5. I would argue that this is much closer than suggested by those on this board. 7.5 points is not much, easily covered by luck. The Spartans are green, the same color as a four leaf clover. How much luckier can you get? Go Sparty!!!!!

[Lord Ash]

Please please please, everyone in the state of Michigan (and indeed in the United States) send MSU good vibes. If UNC wins I will have to abandon the internet and I would rather not do that.

[riverside6]

Here's our live stats...

http://www.scacchoops.com/ViewHDGame.asp?hSchedule=3443

The starters have been posted.

[superdave]

They can do this. They played better than unc on Saturday night. They could slay three #1's to win it all!

Go Spartans!

[YmoBeThere]

Not watching the game but see the score online...is it going to be a blowout by halftime?

[FireOgilvie]

Not watching the game but see the score online...is it going to be a blowout by halftime?

Yes. It's brutal. Michigan State looks awful and UNC can't miss.

[Duvall]

Not watching the game but see the score online...is it going to be a blowout by halftime?

What do you mean, halftime?

[Capn Poptart]

Hmmmm...I wonder if there's anything interesting over on the History Channel?

[BlueintheFace]

This game is just depressing.

[NYDukie]

I feel like I've seen this show before....hmmm...yeah I did, back in December....damn repeat....ughhhhhhh

[zingit]

Hey, Frasor and Green both have two fouls already. That counts for something, right?

*Sigh.* I'm clutching at straws here. I suppose I should be doing my homework instead.

[freedevil]

Nice of everyone to lay down for this team.

[_Gary]

Yes. It's brutal. Michigan State looks awful and UNC can't miss.

So predictable. As I've said on other threads, another team not showing up against the Heels. I'd love to have seen UNC at least have to play one game where the other team actually brought their A game. But I knew better. Again, this is Carolina we are talking about. The team that luck and laying down loves.

[NYDukie]

So do you think they best the 35 point margin tonight? Well on their way it seems or does Roy do Izzo a favor and call off the dogs early?

[ChrisP]

On a positive note, maybe the heels and spartans will expunge the '90 beat down from the record books. Heck it might be a 30pt lead by the third TV timeout! Yikes!

[davekay1971]

I can't drink fast enough to kill this pain.

[freedevil]

Are we sure N.C. State isn't out there in Michigan State's place?

[NYDukie]

Are we sure N.C. State isn't out there in Michigan State's place?

Don't you mean Clemson...lol

[_Gary]

Again, who didn't see this coming? I called this MSU lay down Saturday night right after they knocked off UConn (who so would have given UNC a game). What makes me sick is thinking back 10 years ago when the most dominant team of all time did NOT win a title because they actually had to play a team that wouldn't lay down for them. Makes me sick! :mad:

[dukemsu]

Complete and utter destruction.

dukemsu

[Coballs]

The only potential upside to this disaster is that maybe if Davis has a big game he'll take off for the NBA. But it's more likely that he'll stick around to torture us for another season or two.

[Capn Poptart]

Well, here's my positive thought:

History may record them as 2009 NCAA champs.

But the ACC will forever list the 2009 ACC Men's Basketball Champion as Duke University.

:)

[dukemsu]

Only two consolations.

Green has 3 fouls.

Bobby Frasor is really, really bad.

That is all.

dukemsu

[superdave]

After one Guiness in my Duke mug, I made the switch to sleepytime tea. Gonna be an early night and I may skip the second half.

5 steals for Lawson already. Gross.

[freedevil]

They can't even make free throws?

[BlueintheFace]

Goodbye UNLV record. There's your sunny side ladies and gents.

[Coballs]

After one Guiness in my Duke mug, I made the switch to sleepytime tea. Gonna be an early night and I may skip the second half.

5 steals for Lawson already. Gross.

I agree. No point in watching UNCs 20 minutes victory lap.

[Son of Mojo]

I think I've tasted my bile a few times watching this. Knew I should've sacrificed that live chicken before the game started.......this is ugly. MSU looks like they've no clue what to do on either side of the court. If I did drink alcohol I'd be starting now.......

[jipops]

Again, who didn't see this coming? I called this MSU lay down Saturday night right after they knocked off UConn (who so would have given UNC a game). What makes me sick is thinking back 10 years ago when the most dominant team of all time did NOT win a title because they actually had to play a team that wouldn't lay down for them. Makes me sick! :mad:

Most dominant of all time? Don't you mean 25 years ago with the '84 UNC team? Jordan, Perkins, Daugherty, Smith, Doherty - lost to Indiana (in the regional final I believe).

[NYDukie]

You would normally say "if they get to under 10 by halftime" but you can't even say that right now....utterly disgusting.

How do you come out and play like this after being pasted by 35 earlier in the year?

[RelativeWays]

So a little hoodoo voodoo is okay, but you draw the line at alcohol :confused:

Be a man, get a beer, a hatchet AND A CHICKEN!!!!:eek::mad:

[Duvall]

Again, who didn't see this coming? I called this MSU lay down Saturday night right after they knocked off UConn (who so would have given UNC a game). What makes me sick is thinking back 10 years ago when the most dominant team of all time did NOT win a title because they actually had to play a team that wouldn't lay down for them. Makes me sick! :mad:

How many times does this need to be said? We've heard it already.

[mgtr]

The good news is that we won't have to see most of these charcters again.

[_Gary]

Most dominant of all time? Don't you mean 25 years ago with the '84 UNC team? Jordan, Perkins, Daugherty, Smith, Doherty - lost to Indiana (in the regional final I believe).

Nope. The 1999 Duke team was the most dominant college basketball team I've ever seen - period. For them to not have won that year was easily the worst miscarriage of justice I've ever seen in college ball as far as the best team not winning a title goes. Watching another team in this tournament lay down for UNC just brings back the pain that much more. Ugh...

[FerryFor50]

And yet another team rolls over for the Heels.

Nova beats down Duke, UCLA and beats a better Pitt team... rolls over.

Oklahoma shoots lights out to beat Syracuse down... rolls over.

MSU beats a superior Louisville and UConn team convincingly... rolls over.

I really, really do not get it. They're not playing great D. They're allowing open looks. They're allowing penetration. But teams aren't knocking shots down consistently. And UNC is being carried by Ellington, Lawson and Thompson. Green and Hansbrough are essentially role players at this point.

All I ask is that Ellington gets cold and Thomspon goes back to being Thompson so this can be a decent game.

[_Gary]

And yet another team rolls over for the Heels...

Tell me about it. It would be one thing if UNC was really playing lights out defense, not giving MSU any shots. But the Spartans are getting plenty of decent shots. They just can't throw it in the ocean, as the old saying goes. Whatever. Sports can be so disheartening at times.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Tell me about it. It would be one thing if UNC was really playing lights out defense, not giving MSU any shots. But the Spartans are getting plenty of decent shots. They just can't throw it in the ocean, as the old saying goes. Whatever. Sports can be so disheartening at times.

when UNC is one of the teams that is playing...:mad:

[jipops]

Nope. The 1999 Duke team was the most dominant college basketball team I've ever seen - period. For them to not have won that year was easily the worst miscarriage of justice I've ever seen in college ball as far as the best team not winning a title goes. Watching another team in this tournament lay down for UNC just brings back the pain that much more. Ugh...

Ok, then you didn't see the '84 UNC team. A squad loaded with 4 future NBA all-stars which included one Michael Jordan as a junior. Talent-wise there is simply no comparison with the '99 Duke team - a team featuring a shooting guard with slow lateral movement in Langdon and led by a combo-guard in Avery. UConn shut down our perimeter locking down Langdon with Rikki Moore and Rip Hamilton running wild on us. They were definitely the better team that day and very dominant throughout that season as well.

[mgtr]

Here is the deal -- teams get up for Duke, and go down for UNC. Very simple equation. Why -- well, I don't have a clue.

[dukemsu]

Ok, then you didn't see the '84 UNC team. A squad loaded with 4 future NBA all-stars which included one Michael Jordan as a junior. Talent-wise there is simply no comparison with the '99 Duke team - a team featuring a shooting guard with slow lateral movement in Langdon and led by a combo-guard in Avery. UConn shut down our perimeter locking down Langdon with Rikki Moore and Rip Hamilton running wild on us. They were definitely the better team that day and very dominant throughout that season as well.

Duke beat the most dominant team I ever saw. UNLV 91.

dukemsu

[_Gary]

Ok, then you didn't see the '84 UNC team.

Saw them and simply disagree with you. Let's move on. But this is a Duke board, after all, so surely my contention can't be that much of a shock to you. :rolleyes:

[zingit]

Ellington is having a pretty good night. Maybe this will tip the scales in favor of him leaving for the NBA? Looking for any silver lining I can get.

*Sigh.* Does anyone know the largest deficit a team has come back from in the tournament?

[FerryFor50]

Ok, then you didn't see the '84 UNC team. A squad loaded with 4 future NBA all-stars which included one Michael Jordan as a junior. Talent-wise there is simply no comparison with the '99 Duke team - a team featuring a shooting guard with slow lateral movement in Langdon and led by a combo-guard in Avery. UConn shut down our perimeter locking down Langdon with Rikki Moore and Rip Hamilton running wild on us. They were definitely the better team that day and very dominant throughout that season as well.

Are we talking about NBA talent or college talent? Because, as we've seen through the years, there is a HUGE difference. In college, Jordan was nowhere near dominant. Yet he ended up being one of the greatest of all time. Laettner, in contrast, was one of the best college players ever... and kind of stunk it up in the NBA, comparatively.

Duke had a better team than UConn that entire season - just not when it counted.

[Coballs]

As painful as this is to watch, I don't think these teams are just lying down to UNC. UNC is playing it's best ball, and when that happens they are that much better than most teams. They are supremely talented, athletic, deep, and experienced. To a man they are better than MSU at every position...and that's why this game stinks.

[FerryFor50]

Tell me about it. It would be one thing if UNC was really playing lights out defense, not giving MSU any shots. But the Spartans are getting plenty of decent shots. They just can't throw it in the ocean, as the old saying goes. Whatever. Sports can be so disheartening at times.

Pretty much. Yet UNC fans will call it smothering defense. Kind of like watching MSU throw it out of bounds, on an unforced error and hearing Clark Kellogg talk about UNC's defense.

What it REALLY comes down to is, teams come out cold against UNC, then UNC exerts their will on offense. If you can't stop em, you better at least score with em.

[jipops]

Saw them and simply disagree with you. Let's move on. But this is a Duke board, after all, so surely my contention can't be that much of a shock to you. :rolleyes:

Fair enough. No way I could agree with you on this, but it makes sports debates fun anyways. Maybe we just have different definitions of "dominant".

[FireOgilvie]

Ellington is having a pretty good night. Maybe this will tip the scales in favor of him leaving for the NBA? Looking for any silver lining I can get.

*Sigh.* Does anyone know the largest deficit a team has come back from in the tournament?

I think Ellington will definitely leave. Ed Davis would be smart to leave as well. He's definitely a top 10 pick. I could see Duke sweeping UNC next year.

[devildownunder]

Most dominant of all time? Don't you mean 25 years ago with the '84 UNC team? Jordan, Perkins, Daugherty, Smith, Doherty - lost to Indiana (in the regional final I believe).

Saying they had the most talent isn't even close to the same thing as saying they were the most dominant.

[FerryFor50]

As painful as this is to watch, I don't think these teams are just lying down to UNC. UNC is playing it's best ball, and when that happens they are that much better than most teams. They are supremely talented, athletic, deep, and experienced. To a man they are better than MSU at every position...and that's why this game stinks.

You don't think missing wide open shots over and over is laying down? Shooting poorly and unforced turnovers is because of UNC's dominating talent? Hardly.

UNC is re-defining the idea that you need defense to win championships.

[MAG0297]

Obama picked them...this nation needs a separation of sports and state...

[jipops]

Pretty much. Yet UNC fans will call it smothering defense. Kind of like watching MSU throw it out of bounds, on an unforced error and hearing Clark Kellogg talk about UNC's defense.

What it REALLY comes down to is, teams come out cold against UNC, then UNC exerts their will on offense. If you can't stop em, you better at least score with em.

Guys, I know it's painful, but UNC's defense has really not been getting enough credit. Go back look at the stats from the games in the tournament. Nobody is shooting high percentages against them. I think they just put it all together at the right time with the ridiculous amount of college talent that is at their disposal. Teams don't just lay down. I'm sure Michigan St wanted to win this one too.

Though, now they're probably just ready for it to be over.

[FerryFor50]

I think Ellington will definitely leave. Ed Davis would be smart to leave as well. He's definitely a top 10 pick. I could see Duke sweeping UNC next year.


Wishful thinking, but I'd toss some pennies in this well! :D

[dukelifer]

As painful as this is to watch, I don't think these teams are just lying down to UNC. UNC is playing it's best ball, and when that happens they are that much better than most teams. They are supremely talented, athletic, deep, and experienced. To a man they are better than MSU at every position...and that's why this game stinks.

Michigan State has overachieved in this tourney and the Big East did not bring their A games. UNC is much better than MSU- no question. That was pretty obvious from a few months back. MSU had their run- but UNC will win tonight. Congrats to them. Onto the who will now leave UNC after the big win. I say Deon Thompson and Ed Davis will both make the leap after this game- go out on top!

[jipops]

Saying they had the most talent isn't even close to the same thing as saying they were the most dominant.

True, but this team brutalized teams throughout the season. They exercised their talent. Oh yeah, they had a pretty good coach too. Wasn't exactly some fluke year.

[RelativeWays]

Well I now know how UNC fans felt in 01 and 02, they were glad to get rid of Battier, Dunleavy, Williams and Boozer once and for all. So for Beaker, Dancing Danny, Toe Lawson, and Ellington....Congrats, you won, now GET OUT!!!!! kthanxbye.

[Coballs]

You don't think missing wide open shots over and over is laying down? Shooting poorly and unforced turnovers is because of UNC's dominating talent? Hardly.

UNC is re-defining the idea that you need defense to win championships.

UNC has turned MSU into a bunch of jump shooters. No dribble penetration, no points from the post.

[dukemsu]

Sorry guys. I wish State could have gotten it done.

I don't buy the laying down stuff though. State got goaded into running with a team built for speed. State simply can't make good decisions at that speed. Izzo, great as he is, erred by going with his UConn game plan of pushing the ball. You just can't do that with this UNC team. State did get scared and had a decided deer-in-headlights look. But they didn't lay down. They got run over.

The only good thing is that this is the last we will see of the vast majority of the core of UNC players.

dukemsu

[FerryFor50]

Guys, I know it's painful, but UNC's defense has really not been getting enough credit. Go back look at the stats from the games in the tournament. Nobody is shooting high percentages against them. I think they just put it all together at the right time with the ridiculous amount of college talent that is at their disposal.

I've watched every one of their games.

Teams are playing tight and tenative against them. They are missing wide open shots and going away from the penetration game plans that got them there.

Why do you think UNC opponents are averaging only 15 FTAs to 21 FTAs for UNC? They are just settling for jump shots.

[FerryFor50]

UNC has turned MSU into a bunch of jump shooters. No dribble penetration, no points from the post.

MSU has turned themselves into a bunch of jump shooters - just like Nova and Oklahoma did. They aren't even TRYING to drive. It's not like UNC is playing great help D or even one on one D. The only solid thing they've done on D is be tall.

[jipops]

I've watched every one of their games.

Teams are playing tight and tenative against them. They are missing wide open shots and going away from the penetration game plans that got them there.

Why do you think UNC opponents are averaging only 15 FTAs to 21 FTAs for UNC? They are just settling for jump shots.

Are there any lanes open to drive? Isn't it true that Mich St is known as not being an especially good jump shooting team? Wasn't the same said for Oklahoma, Villanova? UNC has received some very favorable matchups in this one. Also just so happens they are the best team - period. This was an extremely easy pick back in November. College basketball just doesn't have the kind of talent laden squads we've seen in the past, hence all the undefeated talk earlier in the season.

[zingit]

I think Ellington will definitely leave. Ed Davis would be smart to leave as well. He's definitely a top 10 pick. I could see Duke sweeping UNC next year.

Yeah, I figured Ellington would leave too, but there was some question about it before the tournament though, right? I don't think this page has been updated in a while (it still has Singler as 50-50), but Chad Ford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=InOut) had Wayne Ellington listed as 50-50 too. But, yeah, like you said, Ellington will probably leave (assuming a miracle doesn't happen for MSU), so that would be one happy consequence of a UNC win. Any idea where in the draft Ellington would likely go?

[FerryFor50]

Are there any lanes open to drive? Isn't it true that Mich St is known as not being an especially good jump shooting team? Wasn't the same said for Oklahoma, Villanova? UNC has received some very favorable matchups in this one. Also just so happens they are the best team - period. This was an extremely easy pick back in November. College basketball just doesn't have the kind of talent laden squads we've seen in the past, hence all the undefeated talk earlier in the season.

I've seen lanes. MSU just seems to lose the handle on their drives - unforced errors. Then they stop driving and start jacking up shots outside.

They've had success getting into the post but haven't gone there enough.

It's not a coincidence that the ONLY teams that have given UNC any trouble have been ACC teams - those most familiar with UNC.

[FerryFor50]

And as I say it, they start going to the post.

Guess I was onto something. :p

[_Gary]

I've watched every one of their games.

Teams are playing tight and tenative against them. They are missing wide open shots and going away from the penetration game plans that got them there.

Why do you think UNC opponents are averaging only 15 FTAs to 21 FTAs for UNC? They are just settling for jump shots.


I have to agree with this assessment. I've watched their games in this tournament and here's what I honestly think (doing my best to take the dark blue colored glasses off for a minute). No question UNC is in a class by themselves on the offensive end during this tournament. I thought Louisville could match them there and they were matching them until they ran into MSU, which played a near perfect game to take out Pitino's team. But other than UL, I'm not sure anyone else could match the Heels for firepower on offense.

On defense they have played better in the tournament. I can give them that. But at the same time it's just not intellectually honest to say that Gonzaga, Oklahoma, Nova, and MSU have all brought their A game. To the contrary, each of those teams has played UNC tentatively. They've all had open looks in their individual games and for some inexplicable reason they've all shot horribly. But the looks were there. If any of those teams had been able to hit even 1/3 of their outside shots they would have pushed UNC to the final buzzer. But none of them could do that, hence some of us saying these teams are "laying down" for UNC. That simply means they are coming out cold and tentative and not giving it their best shot, aggression wise.

Oh well, it's over now. The only thing left to do is look forward to next year.

[RelativeWays]

Sorry guys. I wish State could have gotten it done.

I don't buy the laying down stuff though. State got goaded into running with a team built for speed. State simply can't make good decisions at that speed. Izzo, great as he is, erred by going with his UConn game plan of pushing the ball. You just can't do that with this UNC team. State did get scared and had a decided deer-in-headlights look. But they didn't lay down. They got run over.

The only good thing is that this is the last we will see of the vast majority of the core of UNC players.

dukemsu

Thats what UNC did to Gonzaga, OU, and Nova, those teams thought they could keep pace with the sheep and when the shots didn't fall it would be rebound, clear out and layup. The other team gets flustered, panics and self destructs. UNC doesn't have to play great defense, they just have to trick the other teams to thinking they can hang with them. Hey if BC or UMD could do it, why not Villanova or MSU? Only that UNC team is not this one.

[devildownunder]

Sorry I missed the time limit but I had a lot more to add to this...


Most dominant of all time? Don't you mean 25 years ago with the '84 UNC team? Jordan, Perkins, Daugherty, Smith, Doherty - lost to Indiana (in the regional final I believe).

Saying they had the most talent isn't even close to the same thing as saying they were the most dominant. The only place '84 unc even comes close to '99 duke's dominance is regular season conference record. Both were unbeaten in conference (duke 16-0, unc 14-0). 1984 unc lost in the semis of the acc tourney, 99 duke won the tourney -- easily. unc finished 28-3, duke finished 37-2. unc lost in the sweet 16, duke went to the championship game. It's really not even close, and that's before we even get into margin of victory.

And btw, no one can argue w/perkins, jordan and daugherty but Kenny Smith was a freshman (back when that meant something) and Doherty was no all-time great. UNC 84's big 3 has a big edge in talent but if you go 7 to 10 deep, duke 99 probably has the talent edge.

Here is unc 84's roster (via wiki answers, sorry, but someone else can get an official source to confirm it, i'm sure)

Sam Perkins Sr. - 1983-84 NCAA AP All-America (1st)
Matt Doherty Sr. - 1984 6th round draft pick
Brad Daugherty So. - 1985-86 NCAA AP All-America (2nd)
Michael Jordan Jr. - 1983-84 Naismith and Wooden Player of the Year
Kenny Smith Fr. - 1986-87 NCAA AP All-America (1st)
Buzz Peterson Jr.
Steve Hale - So.
Joe Wolf - Fr. 1987 1st round draft pick (13th)
Dave Popson - Fr. 1987 4th round pick
Cecil Exum - Sr.
Timo Makkonen - Sr.
Cliff Morris - Jr.

And here is Duke 99's top 10: Brand, Battier, Boozer, Avery, Langdon, Carrawell, James, Maggette, Burgess, Domzalski

[FerryFor50]

Thats what UNC did to Gonzaga, OU, and Nova, those teams thought they could keep pace with the sheep and when the shots didn't fall it would be rebound, clear out and layup. The other team gets flustered, panics and self destructs. UNC doesn't have to play great defense, they just have to trick the other teams to thinking they can hang with them. Hey if BC or UMD could do it, why not Villanova or MSU? Only that UNC team is not this one.

Exactly.

It would have taken an 86 Nova-Georgetown offensive showing from a team to take UNC down in a run and gun game.

[Greg_Newton]

Assuming this lead holds, I'll try to look for the silver lining(s) in such a dominant tourney run by the Holes...

-Ellington is gone. He's been their best player all tournament, really. He played himself into a solid draft position and could not top this as a career finish, there's no way he comes back. It also goes without saying that Lawson is gone.

-Ed Davis may very well be gone also. If it turns out that he could indeed be a lottery pick based on his potential this year, I don't know why he would come back and risk that after this.

-It helps regain some shred of credibility for the ACC. It makes the argument that our early exiting teams were good teams that just didn't show up on the right day is a little more believable.

-And... at some level, Duke and Carolina will always be linked. As much as I cringe to say it, this type of event is good for tobacco road and the overall tradition/legend of Duke and Carolina. Although, that's a heck of a lot easier for me to say in Tennessee that it would be if I was still in Durham/Chapel Hill and having to interact with a million tarhole fans on a daily basis.

All that said, I absolutely hate to see Carolina gain any ground in the perennial Duke-vs-UNC struggle for college bball dominance, and to see Roy gain any ground on K. Just trying not to think about that right now. GTHC, GTH.

[FerryFor50]

And another unforced error by MSU.

They need to play PERFECT from here on out to make it a game.

No dumb fouls. No dumb turnovers. Solid defense. Solid rebounding. Good outside shooting.

You know, the exact opposite of how this game has gone so far. :-P

[freshmanjs]

I have to agree with this assessment. I've watched their games in this tournament and here's what I honestly think (doing my best to take the dark blue colored glasses off for a minute). No question UNC is in a class by themselves on the offensive end during this tournament. I thought Louisville could match them there and they were matching them until they ran into MSU, which played a near perfect game to take out Pitino's team. But other than UL, I'm not sure anyone else could match the Heels for firepower on offense.

On defense they have played better in the tournament. I can give them that. But at the same time it's just not intellectually honest to say that Gonzaga, Oklahoma, Nova, and MSU have all brought their A game. To the contrary, each of those teams has played UNC tentatively. They've all had open looks in their individual games and for some inexplicable reason they've all shot horribly. But the looks were there. If any of those teams had been able to hit even 1/3 of their outside shots they would have pushed UNC to the final buzzer. But none of them could do that, hence some of us saying these teams are "laying down" for UNC. That simply means they are coming out cold and tentative and not giving it their best shot, aggression wise.

Oh well, it's over now. The only thing left to do is look forward to next year.

intellectual honesty with regard to opinions about a basketball game? are you serious?

[FerryFor50]

intellectual honesty with regard to opinions about a basketball game? are you serious?

It could be argued that intellectual honesty could be applied to all situations. I don't see the problem with the phrase.

[zingit]

UNC improved steadily each year with this class of 2009: 2nd round their freshman year, to Elite 8 their sophomore year, to Final Four their junior year, to (probably) a championship their senior year. They certainly have taken care of business. (Ugh, I hate admitting that.)

Anyone else feel like, if G returns, our class of 2010 could be like that? In a way, they have shown the same year-by-year improvement, though not as fast as UNC. 1st round freshman year, 2nd round sophomore year, Sweet 16 junior year . . .. maybe Final Four or even winning it all their senior year? Just wishin' and hopin'.

[_Gary]

I have never seen a team that had so many chances to chip into a big lead just throw the ball away back to the other team. They keep giving all these statistical steals to Lawson (now they are giving him the record for steals in a championship game), but so many of those are the fault of the MSU guys just not playing smart. They might as well just walk up to Lawson after a rebound and hand it to him. "Here, add another steal to the list." It's that bad on MSU's side.

[FerryFor50]

I have never seen a team that had so many chances to chip into a big lead just throw the ball away back to the other team. They keep giving all these statistical steals to Lawson (now they are giving him the record for steals in a championship game), but so many of those are the fault of the MSU guys just not playing smart. They might as well just walk up to Lawson after a rebound and hand it to him. "Here, add another steal to the list." It's that bad on MSU's side.

I was thinking the same. It'd be different if he was stripping guys and getting into passing lanes. He's just saving deflections or errant MSU passes.

[FireOgilvie]

Yeah, I figured Ellington would leave too, but there was some question about it before the tournament though, right? I don't think this page has been updated in a while (it still has Singler as 50-50), but Chad Ford (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/draft2009/columns/story?columnist=ford_chad&page=InOut) had Wayne Ellington listed as 50-50 too. But, yeah, like you said, Ellington will probably leave (assuming a miracle doesn't happen for MSU), so that would be one happy consequence of a UNC win. Any idea where in the draft Ellington would likely go?

Late first round. He's definitely a first round choice with the way he's been playing lately. I think the draft will go something like:

Ed Davis (5-10)
Ty Lawson (8-15)
Gerald Henderson (6-17)
Tyler Hansbrough (20-25)
Wayne Ellington (25-30)

Edit: Danny Green (10-20)

[zingit]

It's not a coincidence that the ONLY teams that have given UNC any trouble have been ACC teams - those most familiar with UNC.

On the other hand, if one non-ACC team was going to be familiar with UNC, it was going to be MSU, given that they already played each other this season, and given Tom Izzo's maniacal preparation (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=4044481&sportCat=ncb) for every game.

[dukelifer]

Assuming this lead holds, I'll try to look for the silver lining(s) in such a dominant tourney run by the Holes...

-Ellington is gone. He's been their best player all tournament, really. He played himself into a solid draft position and could not top this as a career finish, there's no way he comes back. It also goes without saying that Lawson is gone.

-Ed Davis may very well be gone also. If it turns out that he could indeed be a lottery pick based on his potential this year, I don't know why he would come back and risk that after this.

-It helps regain some shred of credibility for the ACC. It makes the argument that our early exiting teams were good teams that just didn't show up on the right day is a little more believable.

-And... at some level, Duke and Carolina will always be linked. As much as I cringe to say it, this type of event is good for tobacco road and the overall tradition/legend of Duke and Carolina. Although, that's a heck of a lot easier for me to say in Tennessee that it would be if I was still in Durham/Chapel Hill and having to interact with a million tarhole fans on a daily basis.

All that said, I absolutely hate to see Carolina gain any ground in the perennial Duke-vs-UNC struggle for college bball dominance, and to see Roy gain any ground on K. Just trying not to think about that right now. GTHC, GTH.

This is good for the ACC and for the rivalry. UNC is having their run right now. This will keep everybody motivated. But leave it to UNC to ruin what is usually a very good championship. At least when Duke repeated, they did it by having played one of the best basketball games of all time. This run by UNC will barely be remembered in the annals of sports.

[devildownunder]

mind you, I'm not seeing this game but it sounds like unc jumped on msu and then the spartans had a confidence issue, after losing to this team by 35 in december -- on the same floor.

[FerryFor50]

On the other hand, if one non-ACC team was going to be familiar with UNC, it was going to be MSU, given that they already played each other this season, and given Tom Izzo's maniacal preparation (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/columns/story?columnist=forde_pat&id=4044481&sportCat=ncb) for every game.

True, but they don't play them year in and year out. ACC teams are VERY used to each other.

[FerryFor50]

mind you, I'm not seeing this game but it sounds like unc jumped on msu and then the spartans had a confidence issue, after losing to this team by 35 in december -- on the same floor.

Well, they're making a little bit of a run now... not sure if it'll be anywhere close to enough.

It sucks... they make a couple good play, then back it up with a couple of forced plays or bad turnovers, missed FTs... they're shooting 58% from the line so far. 5 points left at the line....

[RelativeWays]

Assuming this lead holds, I'll try to look for the silver lining(s) in such a dominant tourney run by the Holes...

-Ellington is gone. He's been their best player all tournament, really. He played himself into a solid draft position and could not top this as a career finish, there's no way he comes back. It also goes without saying that Lawson is gone.

-Ed Davis may very well be gone also. If it turns out that he could indeed be a lottery pick based on his potential this year, I don't know why he would come back and risk that after this.

-It helps regain some shred of credibility for the ACC. It makes the argument that our early exiting teams were good teams that just didn't show up on the right day is a little more believable.

-And... at some level, Duke and Carolina will always be linked. As much as I cringe to say it, this type of event is good for tobacco road and the overall tradition/legend of Duke and Carolina. Although, that's a heck of a lot easier for me to say in Tennessee that it would be if I was still in Durham/Chapel Hill and having to interact with a million tarhole fans on a daily basis.

All that said, I absolutely hate to see Carolina gain any ground in the perennial Duke-vs-UNC struggle for college bball dominance, and to see Roy gain any ground on K. Just trying not to think about that right now. GTHC, GTH.

I agree with most of these. I'm not worried about the UNC fans I interact with on a daily basis. They're pretty nice guys and can have objective conversations. Their team played great and they deserve a pat on the back. Its the goons on the internet that I dread.

The other thing to remember is that this does put pressure on Duke and us fans to answer in the next 5 years or sooner, but this is an very intense but ultimately fun rivalry. Right now we take our lumps. Ultimately this is about taking pride in 5 kids who can throw a ball through a hoop better than the kids down the road. If UNC winning the championship is the worst thing to happen to us in 09, considering all the other uncertainties, tragedies and problems in the world today, we're pretty lucky. We get our next shot in about 7 months

[superdave]

Wayne Ellington is a 6'2'' shooting guard who struggles to create his own shot on the college level.

[FerryFor50]

I agree with most of these. I'm not worried about the UNC fans I interact with on a daily basis. They're pretty nice guys and can have objective conversations. Their team played great and they deserve a pat on the back. Its the goons on the internet that I dread.

The other thing to remember is that this does put pressure on Duke and us fans to answer in the next 5 years or sooner, but this is an very intense but ultimately fun rivalry. Right now we take our lumps. Ultimately this is about taking pride in 5 kids who can throw a ball through a hoop better than the kids down the road. If UNC winning the championship is the worst thing to happen to us in 09, considering all the other uncertainties, tragedies and problems in the world today, we're pretty lucky. We get our next shot in about 7 months

Stop putting things in perspective!!! :D

[FerryFor50]

Wayne Ellington is a 6'2'' shooting guard who struggles to create his own shot on the college level.

Possibly. But who needs to create their own shot when they can shoot off screens like he does?

[devildownunder]

Wayne Ellington is a 6'2'' shooting guard who struggles to create his own shot on the college level.

I think he's a bit taller than 6'2" but you're right about him not creating his shot.

[FerryFor50]

And another unforced turnover.

[jipops]

Sorry I missed the time limit but I had a lot more to add to this...



Saying they had the most talent isn't even close to the same thing as saying they were the most dominant. The only place '84 unc even comes close to '99 duke's dominance is regular season conference record. Both were unbeaten in conference (duke 16-0, unc 14-0). 1984 unc lost in the semis of the acc tourney, 99 duke won the tourney -- easily. unc finished 28-3, duke finished 37-2. unc lost in the sweet 16, duke went to the championship game. It's really not even close, and that's before we even get into margin of victory.

Oh yeah, and there were some legendary coaches back then as well. Cremins, Holland, Driesell, etc... Far stronger than the coaches we're seeing today.

And btw, no one can argue w/perkins, jordan and daugherty but Kenny Smith was a freshman (back when that meant something) and Doherty was no all-time great. UNC 84's big 3 has a big edge in talent but if you go 7 to 10 deep, duke 99 probably has the talent edge.

Here is unc 84's roster (via wiki answers, sorry, but someone else can get an official source to confirm it, i'm sure)

Sam Perkins Sr. - 1983-84 NCAA AP All-America (1st)
Matt Doherty Sr. - 1984 6th round draft pick
Brad Daugherty So. - 1985-86 NCAA AP All-America (2nd)
Michael Jordan Jr. - 1983-84 Naismith and Wooden Player of the Year
Kenny Smith Fr. - 1986-87 NCAA AP All-America (1st)
Buzz Peterson Jr.
Steve Hale - So.
Joe Wolf - Fr. 1987 1st round draft pick (13th)
Dave Popson - Fr. 1987 4th round pick
Cecil Exum - Sr.
Timo Makkonen - Sr.
Cliff Morris - Jr.

And here is Duke 99's top 10: Brand, Battier, Boozer, Avery, Langdon, Carrawell, James, Maggette, Burgess, Domzalski

The ACC was much more competitive in '84 than in '99. Who were the other good teams in the ACC in '99... anybody? '84 had a surging Duke squad that we all know about, an extremely tough GTech team featuring John Salley and Mark Price, a UVA team led by some guy named Ralph Sampson, and a Maryland squad featuring Adrian Branch and another decent player in Len Bias.

1984 UNC swept ALL those teams during the regular season. Tell me THAT is not impressive. I know it can only be subjective, but I just don't see how a '99 team with a slow 2 guard and a frontcourt with little depth could pull off something like this.

[devildownunder]

Well, they're making a little bit of a run now... not sure if it'll be anywhere close to enough.

It sucks... they make a couple good play, then back it up with a couple of forced plays or bad turnovers, missed FTs... they're shooting 58% from the line so far. 5 points left at the line....

wow. that's not close to the same team from the rest of the tournament.

[FerryFor50]

wow. that's not close to the same team from the rest of the tournament.

Exactly.

Plus, it seems like EVERY loose ball is going UNC's way. You need breaks to beat the Heels, and MSU ain't catching em.

[devildownunder]

The ACC was much more competitive in '84 than in '99. Who were the other good teams in the ACC in '99... anybody? '84 had a surging Duke squad that we all know about, an extremely tough GTech team featuring John Salley and Mark Price, a UVA team led by some guy named Ralph Sampson, and a Maryland squad featuring Adrian Branch and another decent player in Len Bias.

1984 UNC swept ALL those teams during the regular season. Tell me THAT is not impressive. I know it can only be subjective, but I just don't see how a '99 team with a slow 2 guard and a frontcourt with no depth could pull off something like this.

Your argument is that 84 was MORE DOMINANT. If you are more dominant, that means you dominate to a greater degree. Regardless of what you think of the competition the two teams faced, 99Duke dominated its schedule to a far greater degree than 84Unc. It's really not close.

Now if you want to argue that 84 north carolina was a better team, in absolute terms, than 99 Duke, or would win a head-2-head matchup, then you probably can make a very strong case for that -- and your argument above would be relevant to that case.

But this was about who is the most dominant, and the facts don't support your argument that it's the '84 unc squad.

[FerryFor50]

Cutting it to 15... uncharted territory!

[FerryFor50]

Cutting it to 15... uncharted territory!

A couple of badly missed open 3s... and we're back to 19.

[devildownunder]

I just realized i put Boozer on the rooster for the 1999 Duke squad. I wish. He showed up a year later. My bad. I still support my earlier contentions about the depth of talent.

[billy]

B
And another unforced turnover.

Fred Brown = Chris Webber = the entire Spartan's team

[FerryFor50]

B

Fred Brown = Chris Webber = the entire Spartan's team

Yet more evidence for teams mailing it in against the Heels. :p

[dukemsu]

Yet more evidence for teams mailing it in against the Heels. :p

Don't agree. This wasn't a mail in job. State freaked out and lost their composure completely. They also couldn't recover and get into any semblance of an offensive game plan. But they didn't quit.

Small issue, really. Got their clock cleaned either way.

dukemsu

[jipops]

Your argument is that 84 was MORE DOMINANT. If you are more dominant, that means you dominate to a greater degree. Regardless of what you think of the competition the two teams faced, 99Duke dominated its schedule to a far greater degree than 84Unc. It's really not close.

Now if you want to argue that 84 north carolina was a better team, in absolute terms, than 99 Duke, or would win a head-2-head matchup, then you probably can make a very strong case for that -- and your argument above would be relevant to that case.

But this was about who is the most dominant, and the facts don't support your argument that it's the '84 unc squad.

Ok, maybe I am indeed arguing a different point. Yeah, the '84 team was better. The '99 Duke team was a lot better than it's ACC foes. But that just seems like such a weaker discussion. I wasn't thinking of dominance being a factor of weaker teams in existence. I guess maybe I feel a team is much more dominant in sweeping greater competition than blowing out weaker ones. Ok, I'm probably just beating dead horses by now. I'll just stop. Thanks for humbling me.

Is The Masters on yet?

[FerryFor50]

Don't agree. This wasn't a mail in job. State freaked out and lost their composure completely. They also couldn't recover and get into any semblance of an offensive game plan. But they didn't quit.

Small issue, really. Got their clock cleaned either way.

dukemsu

I think when I say "mail it in" I mean "shot themselves in the foot." I agree - the panicked, rushed and got themselves in a 20 point deficit. Then they got their legs under them and are playing better... but it's too late and Big 10 basketball is not built for overcoming big leads.

[weezie]

Is The Masters on yet?

Not quite yet but it IS Opening Day!:) PLAY BALL!

[FerryFor50]

Hmm... 13 point lead now...

Didn't count on UNC playing poorly down the stretch... a couple stops and 3s and we have a real game!

[FerryFor50]

Wow. Hansbrough throws a knee into Lucious on an iffy screen... Lawson drags him down... and the foul's on Lucious??

[dukemsu]

Wow. Hansbrough throws a knee into Lucious on an iffy screen... Lawson drags him down... and the foul's on Lucious??

I have no earthly idea how that was a foul on Lucious.

dukemsu

[FerryFor50]

Ah, the Hansflop. The UNC equivalent of the victory cigar.

[Dr. Tina]

I have no earthly idea how that was a foul on Lucious.

dukemsu

Well, Hans was involved and God forbid they call him for his 4th foul and make it easier for him to potentially foul out! I'm so glad I won't have to watch him play ever again after tonight!

[FerryFor50]

Nothing kills a rally attempt like questionable officiating down the stretch. They had been doing so well early with the calls... now they decide to start making bad calls?

[dukemsu]

Only four more minutes and I will never have to see Beaker in Blue ever again.

And he's taking Frasor with him. Maybe Frasor will be his personal assistant.

dukemsu

[dukemsu]

Well, Hans was involved and God forbid they call him for his 4th foul and make it easier for him to potentially foul out! I'm so glad I won't have to watch him play ever again after tonight!

There is not one interpretation of the rule book that would allow for that foul to be called on Lucious.

I'm not blaming the refs. But it'd be nice if they wouldn't insert themselves and make ridiculous calls like that.

dukemsu

[FerryFor50]

There is not one interpretation of the rule book that would allow for that foul to be called on Lucious.

I'm not blaming the refs. But it'd be nice if they wouldn't insert themselves and make ridiculous calls like that.

dukemsu

Can't blame em for the margin - but it does kill a rally.

[RelativeWays]

Possibly. But who needs to create their own shot when they can shoot off screens like he does?

Ask JJ, who had a very quick release and pure form. He's just finding his niche with the Magic.

[FerryFor50]

Ask JJ, who had a very quick release and pure form. He's just finding his niche with the Magic.

It's a very undervalued talent in the NBA.

[dukemsu]

I hate Frasor even more than I hate Beaker.

dukemsu

[FerryFor50]

I hate Frasor even more than I hate Beaker.

dukemsu

I don't know how that is possible. Did he crap on your front porch or something?

[devildownunder]

I actually meant over the course of the whole year -- tourney included not just acc play. they were both unbeaten in the acc.

look, i'll talk about anything right now to get my mind off what's happening in detroit. Who won that par 3 challenge down at Augusta anyway?

[Dr. Tina]

I don't know how that is possible. Did he crap on your front porch or something?

In terms of Tarheel faces I can't stand to look at on this year's squad...

1. Hans

2. Fraser

3. Danny Green

Honorable mention: Ty Lawson's toe

[dukemsu]

I don't know how that is possible. Did he crap on your front porch or something?

I live in Chicago and have to hear how great he is and how bad we should all feel for his injuries. Not a big fan of his old man as a coach, either.

dukemsu

[FerryFor50]

MSU could have used Drew Nietzel tonight. Just one year off...

[zingit]

Perfect. Just perfect. My college career is book-ended by UNC national championships. :( I remember in my senior year of high school, my math teacher (a UNC grad) came in with his UNC tie the day after and said jokingly to me, "Sure you still want to go to Duke?" Yup, no question. Four years later, it's happening again--and am I still glad I went to Duke? Yup, no question.

Still hurts though.

[FerryFor50]

In terms of Tarheel faces I can't stand to look at on this year's squad...

1. Hans

2. Fraser

3. Danny Green

Honorable mention: Ty Lawson's toe

Lawson's toe has a face? EW! :eek:

[RelativeWays]

Only four more minutes and I will never have to see Beaker in Blue ever again.

And he's taking Frasor with him. Maybe Frasor will be his personal assistant.

dukemsu

"Hey Bobby, can you carry these bags for me into the hotel, my back is sore after being dunked on 5 times by Dwight Howard"

"Sure thing Tyler, my precious! I love being your toady. If I do a good job, can I sand the bunions on your feet?"

[dukemsu]

Roy, pull your damn starters already.

dukemsu

[FerryFor50]

"Hey Bobby, can you carry these bags for me into the hotel, my back is sore after being dunked on 5 times by Dwight Howard"

"Sure thing Tyler, my precious! I love being your toady. If I do a good job, can I sand the bunions on your feet?"

http://foreverloyal.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/gollum.jpg

[RelativeWays]

Maybe Suton will lay out Beaker :eek::D

[dukemsu]

Maybe Suton will lay out Beaker :eek::D

Goran's a classy kid. He'd never do that. Izzo would kill him, too.

dukemsu

[RelativeWays]

Ahh now we have a nickname for Frasor...too late. Although Golum is a lot more fitting for Wes Miller.

[FerryFor50]

Maybe Suton will lay out Beaker :eek::D

I was hoping someone would give a Heel a hard foul early to show who's boss.

But that never happened the entire tourny.

[FerryFor50]

Ahh now we have a nickname for Frasor...too late. Although Golum is a lot more fitting for Wes Miller.

Did you ever read the thing where Frasor thought he had a chance with Erin Andrews? Funny stuff.

Though, if Marko Jaric can get Adriana Lima, anything is possible, I suppose.

[devildownunder]

Ahh now we have a nickname for Frasor...too late. Although Golum is a lot more fitting for Wes Miller.

Sorry, thanks to charles Barkley's brilliant observation while LOTR was still out at the movies, Sam Cassell is the only person I can ever picture being accurately compared to Golum.

Man, it's uncanny! :D

[blublood]

Perfect. Just perfect. My college career is book-ended by UNC national championships. :( I remember in my senior year of high school, my math teacher (a UNC grad) came in with his UNC tie the day after and said jokingly to me, "Sure you still want to go to Duke?" Yup, no question. Four years later, it's happening again--and am I still glad I went to Duke? Yup, no question.

Still hurts though.

I am truly sorry! Duke is not going to stay "down" for long though. Every time either team begins writing the other's epitaph, the pendulum swings back again. That's how the whole ridiculous business with being rivals with Maryland got started - because at the time UNC was awful and it was more viscerally satisfying to beat Maryland, who put up a fight, than UNC who was woeful.

Sadly, UNC's strong period has coincided with your college career, but don't worry! Better days are coming. ;)