MBB: North Carolina 83, Villanova 69

[moonpie23]

well, i thought this was going to be a good game....looks like the holes are gonna steamroll them...

[weezie]

Yeah..isn't "Baby Mama" on HBO?

[NYDukie]

Ellington for 3 and up 14, can you say OVERRRRRRRR!!!!

So, does UNC smoke them by more than 20? What do you think??? Or am I just being a pessimist?

[mgtr]

I don't think that this is the same Villanova team that beat us and beat Pitt. C'mon guys, don't roll over for the Heels!

[NYDukie]

Oh, and where was this "energy" from Nova during the Duke game? Wish they played this lethargic then. Just goes to show you how much teams get up for Duke. Damnnnn, everyone just hates Duke!!!

[_Gary]

Ellington for 3 and up 14, can you say OVERRRRRRRR!!!!

So, does UNC smoke them by more than 20? What do you think??? Or am I just being a pessimist?

Absolutely. They'll do the same to MSU on Monday as well. Nothing but double-digit wins for them in all 6 games. Disgusting, but all too obvious.

Oh, and I love the way this game was called close early on. Guarantee it will be the same in the Championship game. MSU will not be allowed to get away with the clawing and over the backs - the only thing that got them this far to begin with. UNC in a rout. Right now they look as dominating as Duke '99, only they won't have to play the second best team in the nation in order to win their next title (Duke, unfortunately, did have to play the second best team in '99 - otherwise we'd have 4 hanging in the rafters instead of only 3).

[rotogod00]

nobody may have improved their draft status more than ellington

[jpfrizzle]

it aint over till the clock says [0.0]

[redick4pres]

Can Nova atleast grab the rebounds that come right off the rim to them on the defensive end?

[slower]

it aint over till the clock says [0.0]

already DOES say 0.0 - you're just not seeing it clearly. ;)

[banneheim]

seems like tarholes have a cakewalk...Hope Msu shows up.

[_Gary]

Can Nova atleast grab the rebounds that come right off the rim to them on the defensive end?

I know. It's bad enough that Carolina is shooting lights out as it is. No need for 'Nova to just give them second chance points on top of that. This is a replay of the first game as far as lucky bounces goes. The ball just loves the Heels, I guess. :rolleyes:

[Greg_Newton]

nobody may have improved their draft status more than ellington

Haha, just what I was thinking. If you want to find a bright spot in this game, it's that he's been on fire so far.

[jpfrizzle]

already DOES say 0.0 - you're just not seeing it clearly. ;)

i refuse to argue over a team I hate

[moonpie23]

it's said UNC WIN as soon as KARL HESS stepped on the floor...

[_Gary]

seems like tarholes have a cakewalk...Hope Msu shows up.

Don't count on it. Teams only show up consistently in Final Fours and Championship games against Duke.

[rotogod00]

Haha, just what I was thinking. If you want to find a bright spot in this game, it's that he's been on fire so far.

yeah, it'll be nice not to see him out there next year

[Devilsfan]

It's over. Lawson is truly the difference. I never thought a point guard could make that much of a difference.

[rotogod00]

It's over. Shows you that we have to coach our brains out, they just recruit and let them play. Lawson is truly the difference.

that ellington kid is pretty good too

[mgtr]

Has any team in modern times had such an easy path to the championship as the Holes?

[FerryFor50]

Gotta love how Nova all of a sudden can't shoot, play D, hit FTs or rebound. :rolleyes:

[NYDukie]

It's getting close to 20!!!

[grossbus]

where's packer when you need him?

[mgtr]

What do you think -- will Zeller be any good? At times he looks good, at other times he appears totally lost. I don't know.

[eddiehaskell]

Jesus.....Danny Green for 3 from half court. This is almost funny.

[Greg_Newton]

Funny parallel that KU dropped 40 on UNC in the first 13 minutes last year, and now UNC dropped has 40 on Nova in the first 13 minutes this year.

At least Zeller doesn't look all that great, I'd definitely taken Mason over him.

[_Gary]

Gotta love how Nova all of a sudden can't shoot, play D, hit FTs or rebound. :rolleyes:

What? You act like you are surprised. Come on, this is as ancient a tradition as there is in college basketball: Duke has to scrap and takes everyone's best shot and UNC gets everything handed to them. It's just the way it is. Get ready for more of the same on Monday night.

[NYDukie]

Funny parallel that KU dropped 40 on UNC in the first 13 minutes last year, and now UNC dropped has 40 on Nova in the first 13 minutes this year.

At least Zeller doesn't look all that great, I'd definitely taken Mason over him.

Depressing parallel, the Dukies dropped only 54 in a game against Nova and UNC might drop more than that in a half....ughhhhhh

[jv001]

Has any team in modern times had such an easy path to the championship as the Holes?

Don't know about that. They are dismantling a team that beat Duke by 23 pts and made us look like high school players. I don't like unc but I have to give them credit. It looks like we get every teams best shot. Our days of imtimidating teams after January are over. I guess they think we are soft. Go Duke!

[theAlaskanBear]

it's said UNC WIN as soon as KARL HESS stepped on the floor...

Is there someway to search and find all of UNC's game in which Karl Hess has officiated? I love me some officiating stats.

[_Gary]

Don't know about that. They are dismantling a team that beat Duke by 23 pts and made us look like high school players. I don't like unc but I have to give them credit. It looks like we get every teams best shot. Our days of imtimidating teams after January are over. I guess they think we are soft. Go Duke!

Frankly I've never bought into the myth of us intimidating teams with the letters D-U-K-E on our jerseys. I don't think I've ever seen us win one game where I thought it was over the moment the other team took the floor because they were in awe of us. To the contrary, we've always taken teams best shots. Always.

UNC, on the other hand, repeatedly gets things handed to them. There's no way 'Nova is playing with the same intensity and precision that they did against us. No way.

[rotogod00]

"There's no way 'Nova is playing with the same intensity and precision that they did against us. No way."

could that possibly have something to do with the opponent they're playing?

[FerryFor50]

Looks like Nova remembered they were at the Final Four... got their legs under them.

[NYDukie]

Hopefully all this Carolina praise by us will be a "jinx"....gotta love it!!!

Under 10....look out!!!!

[_Gary]

"There's no way 'Nova is playing with the same intensity and precision that they did against us. No way."

could that possibly have something to do with the opponent they're playing?

Nope. :p

[jv001]

Frankly I've never bought into the myth of us intimidating teams with the letters D-U-K-E on our jerseys. I don't think I've ever seen us win one game where I thought it was over the moment the other team took the floor because they were in awe of us. To the contrary, we've always taken teams best shots. Always.

UNC, on the other hand, repeatedly gets things handed to them. There's no way 'Nova is playing with the same intensity and precision that they did against us. No way.

Yes but unc is having something to do with it. Well now down under 10 maybe there is hope. Go Nova..Oh I mean Go Duke!

[FerryFor50]

"There's no way 'Nova is playing with the same intensity and precision that they did against us. No way."

could that possibly have something to do with the opponent they're playing?

No.

Why would how hard a team is playing have anything to do with who they were playing? Maybe how WELL they were playing, but definitely not how hard.

[rotogod00]

No.

Why would how hard a team is playing have anything to do with who they were playing? Maybe how WELL they were playing, but definitely not how hard.

so you guys are saying that nova played harder in the sweet 16 game vs. duke because, well, it was duke. and, what, they don't really care as much in this game, a game that can get them into the championship final?

[FerryFor50]

"No real contact there, just a challenge."

Uh, Clark... did you SEE the replay? Hanstravel definitely fouled Fisher.

[FerryFor50]

so you guys are saying that nova played harder in the sweet 16 game vs. duke because, well, it was duke. and, what, they don't really care as much in this game, a game that can get them into the championship final?

No one said anything about caring.

Some teams just come out flat, for whatever reason. UNC punched em in the mouth, but they fought back pretty well and got it within 10.

[jv001]

Well I'm gong to bed. The only games unc lost this year, I did not watch. So that's it for me in the Tournament this year. Go Nova and Go Mich State.

[_Gary]

so you guys are saying that nova played harder in the sweet 16 game vs. duke because, well, it was duke. and, what, they don't really care as much in this game, a game that can get them into the championship final?

Part one: Absolutely I'm saying that. Teams get up for Duke more than they do for Carolina, regardless of the venue.

Part two: I'm sure they'd like to win the game, but they didn't start playing like they did against us until about 4 minutes were left in the first half.

[rotogod00]

No one said anything about caring.

Some teams just come out flat, for whatever reason. UNC punched em in the mouth, but they fought back pretty well and got it within 10.

maybe caring wasn't the right word. but some in here are basically saying that teams come out and automatically play harder vs duke than against anyone else.

i agree with you, though, that nova was flat...period. duke, carolina, whoever...they were flat.

[rotogod00]

"but they didn't start playing like they did against us until about 4 minutes were left in the first half."

all i'm saying is that maybe part of that is due to carolina playing phenomenally well for the 1st 15 minutes of the half

[moonpie23]

look, for whatever it's worth....unc is playing extremely well...hitting their shots and keeping Nova nervous..

if nova can make it tight in the 2nd half, UNC might start missing and then, it's back on...

but don't count on it...

[pfrduke]

Part one: Absolutely I'm saying that. Teams get up for Duke more than they do for Carolina, regardless of the venue.

There have been a lot of ridiculous things said on this forum over the years. But suggesting that Villanova played harder in the Sweet 16 against us because we're Duke than they are tonight in the Final Four in a game that can get them to play for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Not only that, it's completely self-aggrandizing from a Duke fan's point of view.

[rotogod00]

There have been a lot of ridiculous things said on this forum over the years. But suggesting that Villanova played harder in the Sweet 16 against us because we're Duke than they are tonight in the Final Four in a game that can get them to play for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Not only that, it's completely self-aggrandizing from a Duke fan's point of view.

finally some sanity in here

[pfrduke]

Plus/minusing the first half

UNC:
Lawson - +17 (42-25)
Thompson - +9 (17-8)
Frasor - +8 (30-22)
Green - +6 (24-18)
Hansbrough - +4 (42-38)
Ellington - +4 (44-40)
Zeller - +4 (9-5)
Davis - +1 (30-29)
Drew - -8 (7-15)

Villanova:
Reynolds - +3 (34-31)
Fisher - -2 (29-31)
Anderson - -3 (37-40)
Pena - -4 (5-9)
Cunningham - -7 (40-47)
Stokes - -9 (16-25)
Redding - -10 (27-37)
Clark - -13 (12-25)

[_Gary]

There have been a lot of ridiculous things said on this forum over the years. But suggesting that Villanova played harder in the Sweet 16 against us because we're Duke than they are tonight in the Final Four in a game that can get them to play for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Not only that, it's completely self-aggrandizing from a Duke fan's point of view.

Think what you will. All I know is UNC has had two national championships all but handed to them in the closing seconds by the opposing teams. Can't think of one Duke championship where that happened.

And I'll simply say I think it's ridiculous for any Duke fan not to recognize how teams get up for us more so than they do for UNC. That's been so evident over the last 10 or so years it's not even funny.

[FerryFor50]

There have been a lot of ridiculous things said on this forum over the years. But suggesting that Villanova played harder in the Sweet 16 against us because we're Duke than they are tonight in the Final Four in a game that can get them to play for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Not only that, it's completely self-aggrandizing from a Duke fan's point of view.

I don't think it's completely ridiculous. There is a certain level of hate for Duke, and I think a greater level of satisfaction of beating the rich private school kids.

[pfrduke]

I don't think it's completely ridiculous. There is a certain level of hate for Duke, and I think a greater level of satisfaction of beating the rich private school kids.

You're saying that Villanova, as a team, would rather beat a bunch of "rich private school kids" in a Sweet 16 game than one of the greatest programs of all time, and a team that is heavily favored to win the title, in the Final Four? People need to seriously reevaluate their views of how much other teams think of Duke.

Do people get up to play us? Absolutely. Do they get so up that they play harder against us in a Sweet 16 game because we're Duke than they do when a chance to play for the National Championship is on the line? No. That's just completely preposterous.

[_Gary]

I don't think it's completely ridiculous. There is a certain level of hate for Duke, and I think a greater level of satisfaction of beating the rich private school kids.

Absolutely. Thanks for bringing sanity back into the discussion. It's not rocket science we are talking about here. But it is as plain as the nose on the proverbial face. Duke takes team's best shots more so than UNC. Beating the "rich, white, private school" kids surely is an element that seeps in from time to time. Hard to argue against it, if you ask me. Regardless of the reason, I'd say Duke is far more hated than UNC and that pumps teams up to play us. The Heels just don't get the same punch we do.

[NYDukie]

There have been a lot of ridiculous things said on this forum over the years. But suggesting that Villanova played harder in the Sweet 16 against us because we're Duke than they are tonight in the Final Four in a game that can get them to play for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP is one of the most ridiculous things I've heard. Not only that, it's completely self-aggrandizing from a Duke fan's point of view.

Let's just take a step back. I think most are using this board and thread as a bit of therapy for Duke not making the Final 4 and UNC being on the cusp of a NC.

That said, two quick points. I think there is some credence to the point that for some reason teams get up for Duke more than other teams (probably more of a regular season phenomenon though) and two, no I don't think most of us actually believe Nova played harder against Duke in the Sweet 16. A Final 4 game trumps playing Duke in a Sweet 16 game.

[rotogod00]

Let's just take a step back. I think most are using this board and thread as a bit of therapy for Duke not making the Final 4 and UNC being on the cusp of a NC.

That said, two quick points. I think there is some credence to the point that for some reason teams get up for Duke more than other teams (probably more of a regular season phenomenon though) and two, no I don't think most of us actually believe Nova played harder against Duke in the Sweet 16. A Final 4 game trumps playing Duke in a Sweet 16 game.

i don't disagree with either of these points

[FerryFor50]

Let's just take a step back. I think most are using this board and thread as a bit of therapy for Duke not making the Final 4 and UNC being on the cusp of a NC.

That said, two quick points. I think there is some credence to the point that for some reason teams get up for Duke more than other teams (probably more of a regular season phenomenon though) and two, no I don't think most of us actually believe Nova played harder against Duke in the Sweet 16. A Final 4 game trumps playing Duke in a Sweet 16 game.

I said it before; Nova came out flat for whatever reason, or had jitters. They started out poorly and didn't do to UNC what they had done to Duke - hit FTs and rebound, and play D.

They picked it up later, though.

[FerryFor50]

You're saying that Villanova, as a team, would rather beat a bunch of "rich private school kids" in a Sweet 16 game than one of the greatest programs of all time, and a team that is heavily favored to win the title, in the Final Four? People need to seriously reevaluate their views of how much other teams think of Duke.

Do people get up to play us? Absolutely. Do they get so up that they play harder against us in a Sweet 16 game because we're Duke than they do when a chance to play for the National Championship is on the line? No. That's just completely preposterous.

Actually, no, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying it's not completely ridiculous to think teams like beating Duke more than beating UNC, game importance aside.

[pfrduke]

I think there is some credence to the point that for some reason teams get up for Duke more than other teams (probably more of a regular season phenomenon though) and two, no I don't think most of us actually believe Nova played harder against Duke in the Sweet 16. A Final 4 game trumps playing Duke in a Sweet 16 game.

I generally don't disagree with your first point, although I think we come to that view from two things: 1) we watch every Duke game, and fewer of the games played by our opponents, and 2) a little bit of an inflated sense of self-importance. Teams really, really want to beat UNC too, and they take a lot of teams' best (or close to) shots.

[FerryFor50]

And here comes Nova!

[eddiehaskell]

I don't think it's completely ridiculous. There is a certain level of hate for Duke, and I think a greater level of satisfaction of beating the rich private school kids.I'm thinking the same. UNC has a certain level of "street cred" (thanks Jordan/Carter/Sheed/Stack, etc) whereas Duke is thought of as rich, white, elitist (gay is another term many like to throw around).

[FerryFor50]

Bad call on Hansbrough, but can't say his flopping butt didn't deserve it.

[pfrduke]

Actually, no, that's not what I'm saying.

I'm saying it's not completely ridiculous to think teams like beating Duke more than beating UNC, game importance aside.

I don't completely disagree with your latter point, although I think we're talking about (in Duke and UNC) two of the 3 or 4 teams that schools most want to beat. Duke may be #1, but UNC is no lower than 3 or 4.

Sorry if I lashed out at you. I'm still just dumbfounded by the thought that Villanova "wanted" the game against us more than this game.

[FerryFor50]

I generally don't disagree with your first point, although I think we come to that view from two things: 1) we watch every Duke game, and fewer of the games played by our opponents, and 2) a little bit of an inflated sense of self-importance. Teams really, really want to beat UNC too, and they take a lot of teams' best (or close to) shots.

So do you think they took Notre Dame's or MSU's best shots this year?

[eddiehaskell]

BTW - CAN ANY PERSON IN THE WORLD STOP LAWSON IN THE OPEN COURT?? Seriously....just let him lay it up!!!!!!

[FerryFor50]

BTW - CAN ANY PERSON IN THE WORLD STOP LAWSON IN THE OPEN COURT?? Seriously....just let him lay it up!!!!!!

At least foul him hard enough that he doesn't hit the friggin layup.

[NYDukie]

I generally don't disagree with your first point, although I think we come to that view from two things: 1) we watch every Duke game, and fewer of the games played by our opponents, and 2) a little bit of an inflated sense of self-importance. Teams really, really want to beat UNC too, and they take a lot of teams' best (or close to) shots.

Must agree that most fans, especially those of successful teams at any level have certain feeling of self-importance. I think you can throw Duke, UNC, UCLA and Kentucky into that sentence. It just comes with the territory.

[FerryFor50]

Someone PLEASE draw foul #4 on Danny Green.

[FerryFor50]

I don't completely disagree with your latter point, although I think we're talking about (in Duke and UNC) two of the 3 or 4 teams that schools most want to beat. Duke may be #1, but UNC is no lower than 3 or 4.

Sorry if I lashed out at you. I'm still just dumbfounded by the thought that Villanova "wanted" the game against us more than this game.

I think teams want to beat UNC because it puts them on the map.

I think teams like beating Duke because it puts them on the map AND "Duke deserves to be beaten."

[eddiehaskell]

'Nova looks very clunky. It's like they can't dribble or pass with any kind of fluidity. Nervous/scared/intimidated?

[FerryFor50]

'Nova looks very clunky. It's like they can't dribble or pass with any kind of fluidity. Nervous/scared/intimidated?

I think they're doing what Duke did against them - panicking too early and forcing the issue.

[eddiehaskell]

Yet another foul with Lawson driving on the break...:(

[rotogod00]

nova's gonna have no players left at the end of this game

[FerryFor50]

Yet another foul with Lawson driving on the break...:(

Where's all those "Big East" fouls that they were bragging about after UCLA? :rolleyes:

[FerryFor50]

Difference in this half....

UNC passes for open shots.

Nova forces contested shots.

[eddiehaskell]

Lawson = player of the year. One of the most dominate players I've seen in a while. You don't see many 5'10"-5'11" players that can be so dominate. He may single-handedly foul out 'Nova's starting 5.

[rotogod00]

Lawson = player of the year. One of the most dominate players I've seen in a while. You don't see many 5'10"-5'11" players that can be so dominate. He may single-handedly foul out 'Nova's starting 5.

there are plenty of other threads for this, but wouldn't it be nice to have a PG like him in a duke uni

[FerryFor50]

what the HELL.

They just keep jacking up contested 3s instead of driving. 3-24 now from 3. Sigh.

[eddiehaskell]

They just keep jacking up contested 3s instead of driving. 3-24 now from 3. Sigh.Sounds similar to how Duke shot against 'Nova. :(

Ellington with another 3....crap.

[FerryFor50]

Sounds similar to how Duke shot against 'Nova. :(

EXACTLY the same. It's like Nova re-watched that game and said "hey, let's play like Duke next time!"

[FerryFor50]

Also like Duke versus Nova: Make a run and then do stupid crap to kill your momentum.

[NYDukie]

Ok, putting aside 1991 when Duke came back from the previous year's blowout from UNLV to beat them in the Final 4 onto the NC since it was two different years. Can anyone remember the last time a team lost to the team it's facing in a championship game in a blow out during it's season, only to come back in that year's championship game and win???? This look's to be the scenario we will see between MSU and UNC.

[Devilsfan]

What a shooting exhibition nova is putting on. They must of studied Duke when they play in this state earlier in the season.

[eddiehaskell]

I hate to say it, but UNC has all the pieces and they look to be doing what we all knew they should be doing.

- 3 deadly 40%+ 3-point shooters
- NPOY inside (Hansbrough)
- "NPOY" at PG (Lawson)

That sorta reminds me of the '00-'01 Duke squad

- Dunleavy, Battier, Jwill all shooting ~40% from behind the arc
- Jwill unstoppable at PG
- Boozer at center

[UrinalCake]

They started jacking up threes way too early, just like we did against them. If they had kept driving they'd have had a chance at coming back; they actually had Hans in foul trouble (probably the first time that's EVER happened) and I think Thompson also had three, but nova bailed them out by settling for bad threes.

As far as playing Duke vs playing UNC, I think they just had way more CONFIDENCE coming into our game than this one. Playing better can easily be mistaken for "wanting it"

[LaettnerWannabe]

Is it too much to ask that UNC take at least ONE team's best shot in this tournament? Apparently, their opponents can't throw it in the ocean when they see powder blue.

[Scorp4me]

Nova never had a chance. Did you see that FT difference? Did you know Carolina shot more FT's than Nova attempted? I say that sarcastically of course, but I'm sorry when a team is shooting that ridiculously well from 3-pt the other team never has a chance. Funny, I thought you couldn't win living by the three, lol.

[rippy74]

Has any team in modern times had such an easy path to the championship as the Holes?

How can it be that easy when they just hammered the team that HAMMERED Duke? They are just better. Accept it.

[rippy74]

finally some sanity in here

Thank you for two spots of sanity.

[rippy74]

Is it too much to ask that UNC take at least ONE team's best shot in this tournament? Apparently, their opponents can't throw it in the ocean when they see powder blue.

It's called defense. Something they didn't have to play in a once again weak ACC.

[Vincetaylor]

It's pretty obvious that UNC was on cruise control during the regular season. They knew that they were the best team in the country all year long. The only thing that could motivate them was winning the tourney and they've saved their best basketball for right now. Let's face it...UNC is unbeatable the way they are playing. They have by far the most talent. Hopefully, this will motivate K and Co. to get their act together and start recruiting some legit talent again! That's what it's all about. It may be hard to believe, but UNC is going to have 4 titles to Duke's 3 since the K era began. Duke's inability to compete with UNC in recruiting the last several years is to blame.

[CameronCrazy'11]

How can it be that easy when they just hammered the team that HAMMERED Duke? They are just better. Accept it.

tonight's villanova team would not have beaten duke either.

[dukelifer]

It's pretty obvious that UNC was on cruise control during the regular season. They knew that they were the best team in the country all year long. The only thing that could motivate them was winning the tourney and they've saved their best basketball for right now. Let's face it...UNC is unbeatable the way they are playing. They have by far the most talent. Hopefully, this will motivate K and Co. to get their act together and start recruiting some legit talent again! That's what it's all about. It may be hard to believe, but UNC is going to have 4 titles to Duke's 3 since the K era began. Duke's inability to compete with UNC in recruiting the last several years is to blame.

Why is it so hard to believe that they will have 4 titles? UNC has had monster talent since K has come on the scene. Monster talent. What is hard to believe is that they don't have many many more. What is hard to believe is that Duke got three when in the span of time they had that monster talent. UNC is a great basketball program. They have been for a very long time. Duke has risen to greatness, in part, because they have had UNC as a rival. Now what is surprising is that UNC has not become the most hated team in America. Perhaps now it will happen.

[bjornolf]

I think Nova just played tight and weren't up for the "situation". Playing a slightly flawed Duke team in the sweet 16 is NOT the same animal at all as playing a JUGGERNAUT UNC team in the Final Four. I think they listened to the press a little too much, and instead of letting it motivate them, they let it intimidate them. In the Duke game, MOST people were picking them. In the Pitt game, at least a few were picking them, and it was an opponent they knew REALLY well. In the UNC game, they were playing Goliath who EVERYBODY was picking, and they forgot their sling. Jay Wright hasn't been to a ton of FFs like a Roy or K or Izzo and doesn't have that experience. Maybe he was a little intimidated and off his game, too. Well, at least I'll have MSU to pull for on Monday. I guarantee you Izzo won't be scared.

I find it interesting that the Big East that was so annointed at the beginning of the tourney didn't get a single team into the championship game. They had 5/8 and everybody said would have 3/4. Only got 2/4, and one of those games had two Big East teams so was automatic. Then they get the big SQUADOOSH in the final game. So, when the chips were down, I guess the Big East was a little overrated too, huh?

[dukelifer]

I think Nova just played tight and weren't up for the "situation". Playing a slightly flawed Duke team in the sweet 16 is NOT the same animal at all as playing a JUGGERNAUT UNC team in the Final Four. I think they listened to the press a little too much, and instead of letting it motivate them, they let it intimidate them. In the Duke game, MOST people were picking them. In the Pitt game, at least a few were picking them, and it was an opponent they knew REALLY well. In the UNC game, they were playing Goliath who EVERYBODY was picking, and they forgot their sling. Jay Wright hasn't been to a ton of FFs like a Roy or K or Izzo and doesn't have that experience. Maybe he was a little intimidated and off his game, too. Well, at least I'll have MSU to pull for on Monday. I guarantee you Izzo won't be scared.

I find it interesting that the Big East that was so annointed at the beginning of the tourney didn't get a single team into the championship game. They had 5/8 and everybody said would have 3/4. Only got 2/4, and one of those games had two Big East teams so was automatic. Then they get the big SQUADOOSH in the final game. So, when the chips were down, I guess the Big East was a little overrated too, huh?

UNC's size limits what small teams can do against them. I think Villanova was overmatched on the inside. Duke and most teams in the Big East do not look like UNC. As for the Big East being overrated- I am not so sure. They have some excellent teams at the top. But I am happy the Big East will not win it all. But lets face it- if MSU wins it- will anyone thing the Big Ten is the best basketball conference? Not likely. The Big East will still be viewed as the best conference this year and whoever wins it all will be viewed as the the best team (UNC) or a team that just got on a very hot streak and a team of destiny (MSU).

[captmojo]

SQUADOOSH

I like this new word just added to my vocabulary.

Sounds like it could be a command from the almighty.

SQUADOOSH THEM!!!!!!!!!!:D

[FerryFor50]

It's pretty obvious that UNC was on cruise control during the regular season. They knew that they were the best team in the country all year long. The only thing that could motivate them was winning the tourney and they've saved their best basketball for right now. Let's face it...UNC is unbeatable the way they are playing. They have by far the most talent. Hopefully, this will motivate K and Co. to get their act together and start recruiting some legit talent again! That's what it's all about. It may be hard to believe, but UNC is going to have 4 titles to Duke's 3 since the K era began. Duke's inability to compete with UNC in recruiting the last several years is to blame.

Kinda like last year when they got shellacked?

I think they had a better team last year.

[bjornolf]

UNC's size limits what small teams can do against them. I think Villanova was overmatched on the inside. Duke and most teams in the Big East do not look like UNC. As for the Big East being overrated- I am not so sure. They have some excellent teams at the top. But I am happy the Big East will not win it all. But lets face it- if MSU wins it- will anyone thing the Big Ten is the best basketball conference? Not likely. The Big East will still be viewed as the best conference this year and whoever wins it all will be viewed as the the best team (UNC) or a team that just got on a very hot streak and a team of destiny (MSU).

I'm not saying that the Big East wasn't the best overall conference this year. I think they are. I'm just saying that it's funny to me that for the last three weeks, all I've heard is Big East this and Big East that and who's gonna win the tourney? Pitt, UConn, or Louisville? Hello, are any of those teams in the championship? I'm not saying, I'm just saying, maybe they aren't the greatest conference in the history of college basketball like all the "experts" seem to think. :rolleyes:

[dukelifer]

I'm not saying that the Big East wasn't the best overall conference this year. I think they are. I'm just saying that it's funny to me that for the last three weeks, all I've heard is Big East this and Big East that and who's gonna win the tourney? Pitt, UConn, or Louisville? Hello, are any of those teams in the championship? I'm not saying, I'm just saying, maybe they aren't the greatest conference in the history of college basketball like all the "experts" seem to think. :rolleyes:

Problem with the experts is that they have very short memories. They will mention how they all thought UNC was the best overall team, etc. But if MSU wins- well then, everything is thrown out the window. They bashed the Big Ten all year, and they claimed a team a NC could not win without a NBA caliber big man and point guard. MSU winning could have a big impact on folks perception of what it takes to win a championship. Unfortunately, unless the basketball gods have deemed it so and there are forces in the Universe that are at work, MSU will likely not win on Monday. They had their great game and reality will set in. The only glimmer of hope is that they have seen UNC already at their best this year and will not be in awe.

[jv001]

unc loses is if they come out overconfident, don't play defense and the 3's don't fall for ellington, green and lawson. They are playing with confidence and have stepped up the defense in the tournament. Peaked at the right time. Still rooting for Michigan State. Go Duke!

[ncexnyc]

How can it be that easy when they just hammered the team that HAMMERED Duke? They are just better. Accept it.

The original post wasn't sour grapes!

Yes, most of us realized the heels were very good at the start of the year.

However it's also been said that it takes not only talent, but a bit of luck to win it all. The heels have met several teams along the way that they probably shouldn't have.

Crocker goes off for 30 against the Cuze and then lays an egg against the heels.

Reynolds looks all everything against Pitt and then becomes an automated brick launching machine against the heels.

MSU has taken out UCONN and Da Ville, both teams, which match-up on paper alot better with the heels than the Spartans do. I guess come Monday night those two scrubs for MSU who had big games Saturday won't be anywhere to be found.

I could be wrong, but I think the heels will rout MSU.

[dukie8]

UNC's size limits what small teams can do against them. I think Villanova was overmatched on the inside. Duke and most teams in the Big East do not look like UNC. As for the Big East being overrated- I am not so sure. They have some excellent teams at the top. But I am happy the Big East will not win it all. But lets face it- if MSU wins it- will anyone thing the Big Ten is the best basketball conference? Not likely. The Big East will still be viewed as the best conference this year and whoever wins it all will be viewed as the the best team (UNC) or a team that just got on a very hot streak and a team of destiny (MSU).

How could you have watched the game last night and concluded that Villanova was "overmatched on the inside" against UNC? Villanova outrebounded UNC 50 to 46 and had more offensive rebounds (19 to 14). Villanova even got 4 fouls on each of Hansbrough, Green and Thompson. Moreover, Villanova's only big man, Cunningham, had 12 rebounds, which was more than anybody on UNC. These stats hardly reflect a team "overmatched on the inside."

Villanova's problem was horrific shooting on top of horrific shot selection. 33% from the field and 5-27 from 3pt range will lose nearly every game (at least games against FF caliber opponents). I thought I was watching Duke out there the way they just abandoned their game plan and resorted to a 3pt heavefest in the 2nd half.

[dukie8]

The original post wasn't sour grapes!

Yes, most of us realized the heels were very good at the start of the year.

However it's also been said that it takes not only talent, but a bit of luck to win it all. The heels have met several teams along the way that they probably shouldn't have.

Crocker goes off for 30 against the Cuze and then lays an egg against the heels.

Reynolds looks all everything against Pitt and then becomes an automated brick launching machine against the heels.

MSU has taken out UCONN and Da Ville, both teams, which match-up on paper alot better with the heels than the Spartans do. I guess come Monday night those two scrubs for MSU who had big games Saturday won't be anywhere to be found.

I could be wrong, but I think the heels will rout MSU.

Which teams did UNC face that it "shouldn't have?" Oklahoma was its 2 seed, Gonzaga was its 4 seed and LSU was its 8 seed. That's as chalky as it gets.

How does UConn match-up on paper better than Mich St? I think Mich St, with its 11-man rotation, great defense and best rebounding in the country, matches up great with UNC. Toss in probably 50,000 fans rooting for them and probably the best coach in the country and UNC will have its hands full tomorrow night. Izzo completely outcoached Self, Pitino and Calhoun in his last 3 games. That is damn impressive.

[moonpie23]

sorry, 8, but .....exactly WHEN has UNC had it's 'hands full" since this tourny started? they have faced up with just about every defensive arrangement and still just scored, scored, scored...


i can't see coaching being the "weak spot"....


roy has got himself a rocket ship, and the only team that can beat them now is unc...

[ncexnyc]

Which teams did UNC face that it "shouldn't have?" Oklahoma was its 2 seed, Gonzaga was its 4 seed and LSU was its 8 seed. That's as chalky as it gets.

How does UConn match-up on paper better than Mich St? I think Mich St, with its 11-man rotation, great defense and best rebounding in the country, matches up great with UNC. Toss in probably 50,000 fans rooting for them and probably the best coach in the country and UNC will have its hands full tomorrow night. Izzo completely outcoached Self, Pitino and Calhoun in his last 3 games. That is damn impressive.

It's fine to talk about seed numbers, but we all know it's the personel match-ups that really make the difference.

Oklahoma beat the Orangemen, because Crocker had a once in a lifetime game. The kid was MIA in their game against the heels as was just about every other Sooner except the Terminator. I really would have prefered the heels against the Cuze.

Are you telling me you don't think the trio of Blair, Young, and Fields wouldn't have been more of a challenge for the heels than Nova was yesterday?

I concede that Izzo is a great big game coach, but he has only what amounts to 1 1/2 days to prepare his team for the heels. Can the Spartans slow the heels down so it resembles one of those ugly Big 10 games? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[AnimalFriendly]

Ok, putting aside 1991 when Duke came back from the previous year's blowout from UNLV to beat them in the Final 4 onto the NC since it was two different years. Can anyone remember the last time a team lost to the team it's facing in a championship game in a blow out during it's season, only to come back in that year's championship game and win???? This look's to be the scenario we will see between MSU and UNC.

Closest thing I can remember is UNC losing, albeit in a very close game, to Michigan in December 2002 then winning the NCAAs vs. them in 2003. UNC also won vs. Indiana in the 1981 season & Michigan in the 1989 season only to lose vs. each team when playing them in the NCAAs same season. Maybe Villanova lost sometime during the 1985 regular season to Georgetown - not sure. Or maybe Kansas lost to Oklahoma sometime during 1988 season.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Part one: Absolutely I'm saying that. Teams get up for Duke more than they do for Carolina, regardless of the venue.


Now that's some funny stuff, I don't care who you are....

UNC is a very interesting team. They beat down a good Villanova team and really didn't play well offensively beyond solid outside shooting. The defense was down right tough. Vill didn't shoot lights out, but UNC forced them to do things they didn't want to do all night. That's what good defense does.

Anyone who thinks other teams that have played the Heels in this run have been laying down is nuts. UNC has played good defense and better offense the whole tourney. No one has been able to defend all the UNC options so far.

If UNC wins the title, it will surprise me. and I hope they do. I have thought all year that they make too many mental mistakes to do it, but their overrall talent level has allowed them to push past those mistakes...so far.


I just want to see them put together a complete game one time, smart play with max effort...it would get ugly for a title game if they do.

DG almost took himself out of the game last night with 3 stupid early fouls, that's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

I expect this to be a physical title game. I just hope the refs call the pushes, bumps and hacks that give the offending guy an advantage. I don't mind seeing strong, tough play, but they need to draw the line at allowing it to take away a player's ability to make a play. College Basketball has lost enough of the finesse game already.

Note: I'm on the road and probably won't be able to post this week....will be around next week.

Go Heels!

[captmojo]

Note: I'm on the road and probably won't be able to post this week....will be around next week.



There are no tarpon on the road. Careful not to get run over. Cast from the ditches. I keed, I keed!

You probably have it won. Your boys got through the first game in the venue looking comfortable. Unfortunately, I expect this comfort to continue, but it is not going to be easy when you consider the defensive competition you must face now. This ain't your December Spartans now.

[_Gary]

Now that's some funny stuff, I don't care who you are....

Anyone who thinks other teams that have played the Heels in this run have been laying down is nuts.

Ah, now there's the Wheat I've known and loved for the last 10 years or so. Snippy remarks don't negate what I see with my eyes (and I have 20-15 vision). Teams don't get up for UNC like they do Duke. I've seen this over and over and over for at least the last decade and there's just no doubt about it. Don't expect Heel fans to acknowledge it though, so I'm not disappointed in you. :p

I think UNC has played better defense than they did during most of the regular season, but they aren't playing lights out defense by any standards (don't think they can do that - it's just not in their "genes"). But I do concur with those that say the Heels have had very, very favorable matchups throughout the tournament. It's not about chalk, by any stretch. It's about matchups and the Heels haven't faced anything close to a bona fide contender yet. And the teams they have played have shot horribly from the outside, and only a minor portion of it has had to do with their D. Teams are getting good looks from outside and just not hitting.

I'm positive MSU will lay down for UNC. If, by some miracle, they do show up and actually give the Heels a run for their money early on, I fully expect the refs to start calling the game tight - and we all know which team that will favor.

Gary

[dukie8]

It's fine to talk about seed numbers, but we all know it's the personel match-ups that really make the difference.

Oklahoma beat the Orangemen, because Crocker had a once in a lifetime game. The kid was MIA in their game against the heels as was just about every other Sooner except the Terminator. I really would have prefered the heels against the Cuze.

Are you telling me you don't think the trio of Blair, Young, and Fields wouldn't have been more of a challenge for the heels than Nova was yesterday?

I concede that Izzo is a great big game coach, but he has only what amounts to 1 1/2 days to prepare his team for the heels. Can the Spartans slow the heels down so it resembles one of those ugly Big 10 games? I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

What does "it's the personel [sic] match-ups that really make the difference" mean? You complained that the "heels have met several teams along the way that they probably shouldn't have," which doesn't make any sense given the fact that they had chalk opponents until last night. Were you expecting Pitt and UConn to have been stuck in their region as 2 and 3 seeds?

Oklahoma beat Syracuse because Crocker had a career night? Did you miss Griffin going 12-15 for 30 points and 14 rebounds? How about Syracuse shooting 29% from 3-point range? Or Syracuse getting outrebounded 35-26? You might have "preferred" Syracuse but UNC would have murdered that sleepy zone they sit in.

Yes. Did you watch Pittsburgh's games in the NCAAT? They looked terrible against E Tenn St (it was a 2 point game with 4 minutes to go against a 16 seed), they looked terrible against Ok St (it was a tie game with 2:42 to go), they should have lost to Xavier (they were losing with 23 seconds to go) and they did lose to Villanova. Do you actually think that a team that had played that poorly all tournament was going to give UNC (a UNC team that is playing its best basketball all season) a game?

Izzo had the same short amount of time to prepare for Louisville, the team that was the #1 #1, and Mich St completely outplayed them. I don't know if Mich St can beat UNC but I like their chances against UNC over any other in what amounts to a home game for them.

[ncexnyc]

What does "it's the personel [sic] match-ups that really make the difference" mean? You complained that the "heels have met several teams along the way that they probably shouldn't have," which doesn't make any sense given the fact that they had chalk opponents until last night. Were you expecting Pitt and UConn to have been stuck in their region as 2 and 3 seeds?

Oklahoma beat Syracuse because Crocker had a career night? Did you miss Griffin going 12-15 for 30 points and 14 rebounds? How about Syracuse shooting 29% from 3-point range? Or Syracuse getting outrebounded 35-26? You might have "preferred" Syracuse but UNC would have murdered that sleepy zone they sit in.

Yes. Did you watch Pittsburgh's games in the NCAAT? They looked terrible against E Tenn St (it was a 2 point game with 4 minutes to go against a 16 seed), they looked terrible against Ok St (it was a tie game with 2:42 to go), they should have lost to Xavier (they were losing with 23 seconds to go) and they did lose to Villanova. Do you actually think that a team that had played that poorly all tournament was going to give UNC (a UNC team that is playing its best basketball all season) a game?

Izzo had the same short amount of time to prepare for Louisville, the team that was the #1 #1, and Mich St completely outplayed them. I don't know if Mich St can beat UNC but I like their chances against UNC over any other in what amounts to a home game for them.


Of course I didn't miss Griffin having a huge game against Syracuse, it's a given. Those who watch the games know it's usually some unsong kid who steps up and makes the difference between two evenly matched clubs and especially if we're talking about an upset. Crockers 30 was without a doubt the difference in that game. Yes, Boeheim's boy's shot terribly and that is exactly what I'm talking about, as again the majority of those shots were WIDE OPEN looks, shots Cuze has been burying all season long.

Yes, I totally agree with you that Pitt didn't look very good in these past few weeks, but we're talking about on paper and what appears to be the best potential match-up against the holes. Nova didn't exactly blow away Pitt and I believe Pitt's bigs would have been more of a challenge to the holes than Nova was. Again Nova rode Reynolds over Pitt and the kid was absolutely horrible yesterday.

Hopefully we will both be smiling after tomorrow night. I just don't believe some unknown back-up is going to step-up and shine.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

It's about matchups and the Heels haven't faced anything close to a bona fide contender yet. And the teams they have played have shot horribly from the outside, and only a minor portion of it has had to do with their D. Teams are getting good looks from outside and just not hitting.

I'm positive MSU will lay down for UNC. If, by some miracle, they do show up and actually give the Heels a run for their money early on, I fully expect the refs to start calling the game tight - and we all know which team that will favor.

Gary

The "snippy" remark was just that. I've heard UNC fans say the same thing about the Heels for many years. Everybody plays hard against us....Whyaaaaa! It's all a bunch of bull and seems to show up after somebody loses. If you want to be the best, strap on the target and face the music. Accept the other teams challenge, expect their best, every time. Don't cry when you get it. Just play.

I certainlty don't expect MSU to lay down. UNC will have to play well to win.

Good teams create matchup problems. Every team that has faced UNC has faced a matchup problem.
See a pattern there? This a a very good UNC team. There is not a team in college basketball that UNC does not match up well with this year.

And I doubt Oklahoma and Villanova would agree that they were not "bona fide" contenders. but if you are right, I guess at the least you are saying Duke couldn't beat a team that wasn't even a bona fide contender? I don't buy that.

I start a tournament tomorrow from Alabama, daylight to dark stuff all week and the weather is not going to exactly be nice. I shouldn't even be up this late...We'll have all offseason to debate the season, I'll be around no matter the outcome tomorrow night.

[Greg_Newton]

This a a very good UNC team. There is not a team in college basketball that UNC does not match up well with this year.


The scariest thing about this years UNC team to me is that they have a 1st team All-American (Hansboro), a lottery pick (Davis), a legitimate ACC starting center (Thompson) and a mobile 7-footer (Zeller) all in the post... yet what's been making them so dominant recently has been their guard play (Lawson/Ellington/Green).

They just don't have any weaknesses.

[eddiehaskell]

They just don't have any weaknesses.I would say it's their bench, but then again, with Davis, Zeller, Frasor and Drew I can't say it's all that bad. Heck, those 4 could probably start for many ACC teams.:(

[shoutingncu]

If I'm understanding much of this thread... not only did the teams that UNC played lay down, but the teams that UNC didn't play (Syracuse, Pitt) also laid down to make the path easier.

Wow, teams must love UNC even more than they hate Duke. Or do teams hate Duke so much that they'd give UNC the easiest path to a possible championship, knowing how much that would bother the Blue Devils?

[Matches]

I would say it's their bench, but then again, with Davis, Zeller, Frasor and Drew I can't say it's all that bad. Heck, those 4 could probably start for many ACC teams.:(

Their weakness is, as it has always been, their defense. When they give max effort on D they play it very well, but they don't always give max effort. The bench isn't that deep but it really doesn't need to be with a starting five like they have. I expect a seven man rotation tonight with Drew and Frasor really being the only significant contributors, and that works just fine.

[RelativeWays]

This is getting stupid. UNC played who they played (usually the highest possible seed for that matchup) and you can't blame them because Louisville, UConn or Pitt didn't hold up their end of the bargain. Simply saying that their opponents just laid down for them is just as disingenuous as those IC fans who tried to say UNC didn't really want to win the ACC title. This is the best UNC has played all year. They're shooting well and while their defense is better, its their rebounding and limiting their second chance opportunities thats the real difference. UNC played to their strengths. They'd get a rebound, clear it out for a quick layup. The Zags, OU and Nova started to panic a bit when UNC started to outpace them and forced them to take outside shots that wouldn't fall. When UNC was picked preseason number 1, it was this team that everyone was envisioning, not the one that struggled with UMD, BC and FSU.