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Newton_14
04-02-2009, 09:54 PM
It appears Ty Lawson has kicked off his final 4 visit by winning some cash at the local casino!

Easy folks, no violation here... It is all "legit"

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4037897

WiJoe
04-02-2009, 10:18 PM
from espn story:

"We got in last night, and Coach [Roy Williams] gave us a curfew of 1:30," Lawson said when asked if he had visited any casinos. "I went over to Greektown and won about $250. So I already had my time there. It's probably the last time I go there before the games start."

MORE
Team spokesman Steve Kirschner said the 21-year-old is legally of age to visit a casino.

"I'm just amazed that people are going to make a big deal about it," Kirschner said.

----

Huckleberry Roy and Kirschner must be dipping into the same stash of stupid pills.

You just CANNOT do that or say that. Geez. What dopes.

godukecom
04-02-2009, 10:22 PM
Drinkin...Drivin....Gamblin....

dukemsu
04-02-2009, 10:24 PM
from espn story:

"We got in last night, and Coach [Roy Williams] gave us a curfew of 1:30," Lawson said when asked if he had visited any casinos. "I went over to Greektown and won about $250. So I already had my time there. It's probably the last time I go there before the games start."

MORE
Team spokesman Steve Kirschner said the 21-year-old is legally of age to visit a casino.

"I'm just amazed that people are going to make a big deal about it," Kirschner said.

----




Huckleberry Roy and Kirschner must be dipping into the same stash of stupid pills.

You just CANNOT do that or say that. Geez. What dopes.

Being from Detroit, I can't imagine a worse situation than having your team wandering the streets of the D until 1:30 am. Ole' Roy must not be worried, though. I know the Spartans are staying out in the burbs to avoid this and other distractions as much as possible. Guess the Heels are downtown.

dukemsu

moonpie23
04-02-2009, 10:37 PM
they know they have the title sewn up.....why shouldn't they have a little fun?

blueduke59
04-02-2009, 10:46 PM
It appears Ty Lawson has kicked off his final 4 visit by winning some cash at the local casino!

Easy folks, no violation here... It is all "legit"

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4037897



"The only time I lost was in Reno; that's when everybody on the team lost," he said. "It's the only place I lost. The other five or six times I did gamble, I won at least $500."

How long has Lawson been 21?

FireOgilvie
04-02-2009, 10:48 PM
How long has Lawson been 21?

Five months.

He was born on November 3, 1987.

blueduke59
04-02-2009, 10:52 PM
Didn't know he's been that close to casinos to gamble 5 or 6 times in five months

FireOgilvie
04-02-2009, 10:53 PM
Once a month... during this basketball season. How many casinos are there in North Carolina???

blueduke59
04-02-2009, 10:55 PM
there's a casino in Cherokee. A Harrah's I think. That's it as far as I know

rthomas
04-02-2009, 10:55 PM
This is such a stupid thread. Going to bed now. Get a life people.

Wheat/"/"/"
04-02-2009, 10:56 PM
Geez...Is it clear yet why I've been saying all year that this UNC team is not the smartest team we've had, and why it is so frustrating to watch them because they could be so much better than they are?

Here's another gem of a quote that illustrates my point, and, surprise, it was from Lawson...

“The last two weekends I feel like we’ve played a lot better defense and are putting more detail into rotating and staying in front of our man,” Lawson said. “It’s more of a focus now to play defense than it was earlier in the year".

What? After all the talk about poor defense at the end of last season and starting out this season it's just now becoming more of a focus? Hello?

I'd bet that quote drove Ol Roy nuts. Dennis the Menace (sp)? Or Dennis the Dunce?

The best basketball players use more than their physical skills, Mr. Lawson. I'm playing poker right now on pokerstars, so I could care less if the kid goes and plays blackjack or whatever. But it is just a dumb thing to do PR wise, and could end up being an unnecessary distraction.

Think, boys, THINK!

Edouble
04-02-2009, 11:22 PM
Gambling runs in the Tarheel family... ;)

BD80
04-02-2009, 11:27 PM
Lawson sure sounds NBA ready to me ...

kexman
04-02-2009, 11:28 PM
I feel kind of bad for Lawson or any other "star" because they lose some of their freedom. I don't really care if they walk around town or go to the casino. However, what an idiotic thing to be doing. I doubt that going to the casino is much of a direct distraction, but threads like this or if the media picks up that they are out screwing around town could be a distraction. Furthermore, there are probably a handful of Michigan state fans at 1am (U of M alum here) who would think it is their duty as a loyal fan to start something with Lawson to get him suspended/arrested/distracted, etc.

That is why I feel a little bad for Lawson or the Duke players. They should be careful and unfortunately lead a better example than normal kids. Than again he will probably make millions next year so I don't feel that bad:)

Edouble
04-02-2009, 11:41 PM
At least he doesn't get hopped up and launch himself off of roofs like Hansplane.

Rumor has it at that party he was passed out on the couch by the time they got all of the frozen peas into the pool.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
04-03-2009, 07:14 AM
James Bond gambles.

moonpie23
04-03-2009, 07:56 AM
James Bond gambles.


"that last hand, nearly killed me."

Devilsfan
04-03-2009, 08:45 AM
Didn't Rollie M. of Villanova fame coach in a famous casino town? Probably not relavent but just food for thought. The article of Ty's PR debacle is right on the money.

davekay1971
04-03-2009, 09:01 AM
He's 21. There's not even a whiff of a hint that he bet on any form of sport, much less hoops. Lawson going to a casino is just not an issue. Of course, since he's a Tarhole, I'm ticked that he won money. If a Tarhole's playing anything, basketball, craps, blackjack, or go fish, I'm cheering for him to lose :)

Roy's decision to let his team wander Detroit until 1:30 am, on the other hand...that's just dumb.

I have a general rule of thumb that nothing good happens after 2 am. In Detroit, I'd push that easily to midnight. Or sundown.

bfree
04-03-2009, 09:14 AM
I just sent this to the editors and I hope they post it...

The real bad PR move is lying about gambling. I can tell you from experience and from some basic understanding of the math, the odds of this statement being true are minuscule.:

"The only time I lost was in Reno; that's when everybody on the team lost," he said. "It's the only place I lost. The other five or six times I did gamble, I won at least $500."

If you play craps perfectly, and take zero unnecessary risks (pass line only and full 3/4/5 odds, which almost nobody does), the game has a very small house edge, .347%. That is to say for every $1000 risked, the player should get back approximately $996 in winnings. We don't know what amount Ty Lawson was stepping to the table with, but for it to be statistically even remotely likely that he ended 5 of 7 craps sessions +$500 or better, it had to be a ton. Way more than a college student without supplemental income should have on him.

So either he's the luckiest gambler on the face of the earth, lying, or has access to way more money than he should. Nice work Carolina!

On a serious note, lying about gambling losses is one of the first indicators of having a real problem. Gambling addiction is no laughing matter, and if anyone has issues, they should get some help.

hurleyfor3
04-03-2009, 09:48 AM
For some of us, $250 at a casino is a rounding error.

I have no reason not to believe him. Having five winning sessions out of seven is not uncommon. Aw heck, I'll throw you the math: If the chance of a winning session is 49%, the probablity of five out of seven is (7 choose 5)(.49^2)(.51^5) = 17.4%. That's higher than JJ Redick's shooting percentage against LSU (16.7%)!

bfree
04-03-2009, 09:58 AM
What kind of action do you bring? And do you think it would be appropriate for an unemployed college student? Think about it a second, it is absurd if it is true.


For some of us, $250 at a casino is a rounding error.

I have no reason not to believe him. Having five winning sessions out of seven is not uncommon.

hurleyfor3
04-03-2009, 10:14 AM
What kind of action do you bring? And do you think it would be appropriate for an unemployed college student? Think about it a second, it is absurd if it is true.

I'm not going to speculate on Ty's financial situation. However, it is not unusual to double or triple your money in a given session. Winning $250 on, say, a $200-300 drop is a nice session, but by no means unbelievable, and I had more money than that in college. (If you must know, a couple times last weekend I had a couple sessions with similar percentage wins.) In fact, lacking further evidence I'd say he exhibits good control and risk management.

DukiesPA
04-03-2009, 10:19 AM
I just sent this to the editors and I hope they post it...

The real bad PR move is lying about gambling. I can tell you from experience and from some basic understanding of the math, the odds of this statement being true are minuscule.:

"The only time I lost was in Reno; that's when everybody on the team lost," he said. "It's the only place I lost. The other five or six times I did gamble, I won at least $500."

If you play craps perfectly, and take zero unnecessary risks (pass line only and full 3/4/5 odds, which almost nobody does), the game has a very small house edge, .347%. That is to say for every $1000 risked, the player should get back approximately $996 in winnings. We don't know what amount Ty Lawson was stepping to the table with, but for it to be statistically even remotely likely that he ended 5 of 7 craps sessions +$500 or better, it had to be a ton. Way more than a college student without supplemental income should have on him.

So either he's the luckiest gambler on the face of the earth, lying, or has access to way more money than he should. Nice work Carolina!

On a serious note, lying about gambling losses is one of the first indicators of having a real problem. Gambling addiction is no laughing matter, and if anyone has issues, they should get some help.

Wow, this statement is amazing. From the simple story about a kid winning some money gambling you've gone and inferred that Carolina boosters are paying for him to gamble or he's got a serious gambling problem and is lying about everything -- those are some pretty bold statements to make. I understand it's Carolina and we're all a little pissed about them being there while we're not, but c'mon. If everything goes by the law of averages there's absolutely no reason anyone should ever gamble because they'll only lose money -- the fact that he's won more than he's lost based off a small sample size doesn't mean a thing. If you play smart and wait for hot rollers it can certainly be done.

The guy is 21 years old and he went to a casino and rolled some dice and won some money. According to the article it was on Wed night, so three days before their game. If Duke were there I'd actually like the fact they went out and blew off some steam to get away from all of the pressure before getting down to business.

ForeverBlowingBubbles
04-03-2009, 10:47 AM
I'm glad to see it when a young man is out there enjoying being young and living while experiencing a new city instead of holed up in his hotel room watching the tube like he can on any other night of the week. It's important for some players depending on who you are to have some fun and take your mind off all of the pressure. He didn't do anything illegal and as far as we know he didn't drink down a case of Miller High Life in the process. To get a little off topic, that's the difference in atmosphere UNC offers in comparison to Duke which makes UNC more attractive to certain recruits.

If it was the UNC soccer team or NC State swim team, no one would give 2 craps.
Then again, should Lawson have commented to the press about what he was doing? No, he brought all this upon himself. Him and his staff acting surprised at the reactions of some seems to me more foolish than the act itself.

cspan37421
04-03-2009, 10:55 AM
bfree, you bring up a good point, but keep in mind that Ty might have misspoken. Recall that the Beardstown Ladies sold a bunch of books on the flawed premise that investments subsequent to the original principal amount counted as investment return. Perhaps Ty "spent" $480 to "win" $500 - and he doesn't know (or notice) the difference between that and coming out $500 ahead.

hurleyfor3, it's always good to see probability in the public discourse! My late probability prof, Scoville, would be proud (though no one would be able to tell).

weezie
04-03-2009, 11:39 AM
Being from Detroit, I can't imagine a worse situation than having your team wandering the streets of the D until 1:30 am. Ole' Roy must not be worried, though.

Yeah, maybe tonight Ty and his mates should consider a trip over to Canada
to take in the Windsor Ballet! :cool:

bjornolf
04-03-2009, 12:26 PM
I have a scarier conspiracy theory. <Inserting tongue in cheek>

What if the casinos that he won in 5 out of 7 times are owned by Carolina boosters or alums? What if they saw him on the security cameras and slipped him loaded dice? What a GENIUS way to slip a player cash without worrying about the NCAA finding out! :eek:

<removing tongue from cheek> That was fun!

dukejunkie
04-03-2009, 01:06 PM
Being from Detroit, I can't imagine a worse situation than having your team wandering the streets of the D until 1:30 am. Ole' Roy must not be worried, though. I know the Spartans are staying out in the burbs to avoid this and other distractions as much as possible. Guess the Heels are downtown.

dukemsu

It may be questionable to have the players out until 1:30. However, if they're allowed a little freedom at night in Detroit, I'd argue they're probably safer in one of the casinos. From what I hear, they have some serious security there. I guess they need it.

jipops
04-03-2009, 01:11 PM
I don't think this is that big of a deal. But let's face it, if this were a Duke player at a casino - it would be a HUGE deal to everyone else.

killerleft
04-03-2009, 01:12 PM
I hope he DID win big. Seeing a Tar Heel using up his good fortune a little early suits me just fine.:D

Misunderestimated
04-03-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't think this is that big of a deal. But let's face it, if this were a Duke player at a casino - it would be a HUGE deal to everyone else.


Agreed. Could you imagine the backlash if it had been Paulus or JJ who made the gambling comment to the reporter(s)?

Kewlswim
04-03-2009, 02:26 PM
Hi,

Mr. Lawson and the rest of you Tar Heels...please gamble, drink, stay up late, do all sorts of bad things to your body (smoke, eat bad greasy food, etc.). WE here should welcome all that. I don't think this shows a respect for Villanova. I think Lawson and his mates think this will be a relatively easy game.

I don't want to speculate about the outcome of Saturday's game (who really knows until they play), but I will say this: The master of choking under pressure was Dean Smith and I think Dean has taught Roy well. Before Coach K, ACC was often referred to meaning Another Carolina Choke!

The Wildcats were a bad call away from knocking off the Heels when UNC won its title a few years ago.

I think the Wildcats will be more prepared for UNC than people are giving them credit for either.

Get Lawson and/or Hansborough in foul trouble and make it a close game late into the second half and? Well, Carolina has not played a close game recently with the Toe in the line-up. Let's see what happens.

We know first hand the defensive pressure that Villanova can provide.

GO DUKE!

tendev
04-03-2009, 03:53 PM
I knew I would see this thread. If gambling is legal and Lawson is legally gambling then why does this matter? And so he can't gamble or drink a beer or whatever any other 21- year old does because he is a well-known basketball player on a well-known team.

AnimalFriendly
04-03-2009, 04:38 PM
Hi,

The Wildcats were a bad call away from knocking off the Heels when UNC won its title a few years ago.

GO DUKE!

No, actually they were not. Carolina was up by 3, yes 3, points when the so-called "bad" travel call was made. Had Villanova's basket counted, Carolina would still have had a one point lead AND the ball with no more than 7 seconds left, in which case they most likely still would have won.

moonpie23
04-03-2009, 04:40 PM
I knew I would see this thread. If gambling is legal and Lawson is legally gambling then why does this matter? And so he can't gamble or drink a beer or whatever any other 21- year old does because he is a well-known basketball player on a well-known team.

well, he IS a well-known under-age drinker and driver....

Biscuit
04-03-2009, 05:34 PM
Roy's response:

http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/roy-ive-gambled-too

I don't care what shade of blue you favor, that's pretty funny, unless of course you're a huge fan of The Cosby Show.

cspan37421
04-03-2009, 06:04 PM
I knew I would see this thread. If gambling is legal and Lawson is legally gambling then why does this matter?

Do you really not know any reason why sports leagues look very dimly on their players, coaches, or referees gambling (and many prohibit it outright)? You really can't think of why it could matter?

Here's a hint. Suppose instead of winning, he loses - big. Hmmm, how to make up those losses.... What thing of value could he provide or do to make up for the loss .... Hmmm.....

BlueDvl817
04-03-2009, 06:20 PM
...but I couldn't agree more with Ol' Roy on this one. Come on, they got in on Wednesday night and they have three days before they have to play. Instead of pacing around in the room that night getting worked up over a game three nights away, why not relax a little bit? If gambling is what it takes, then so be it, it's legal, he was supervised by someone connected with the team, and I really doubt he's stupid enough to really get himself deep in the hole.

I understand some posters' points about it simply not being smart for PR reasons, but honestly some of you seem to want to attack anyone wearing Carolina blue for any reason. He's got plenty of time to prepare for the game, and I highly doubt any media attention over this is going to distract Ty, Roy, or any of the others from the real reason they came to Detroit. Uh, I need to take a shower, I can't believe I just defended a Tarhole.

gotham devil
04-03-2009, 06:48 PM
http://i.tsn.com/i/photos/20090403/111990.jpg

Given all of the college point shaving scandals through the years, this is not exactly the image that Myles Brand wants to project to the public of, well, student-athletes

pfrduke
04-03-2009, 07:30 PM
http://i.tsn.com/i/photos/20090403/111990.jpg

Given all of the college point shaving scandals through the years, this is not exactly the image that Myles Brand wants to project to the public of, well, student-athletes

But I think Roy Williams is putting that on the front of the Carolina recruiting brochure.

G man
04-03-2009, 07:42 PM
I have no issue with this, good for him. For everyone taking the moral high ground don't forget J.J.'s run in with a DUI! He probably should not have gone, but not a big deal glad he won. Acutally to bad he didn't loose so bad that someone told him to throw the game to forgive his debt! J/k It is not a big deal.

allenmurray
04-03-2009, 09:05 PM
If it was the UNC soccer team or NC State swim team, no one would give 2 craps.



I doubt millons of dollars are being wagered over the UNC Soccer team or the NC State Swim team.

allenmurray
04-03-2009, 09:08 PM
Do you really not know any reason why sports leagues look very dimly on their players, coaches, or referees gambling (and many prohibit it outright)? You really can't think of why it could matter?

Here's a hint. Suppose instead of winning, he loses - big. Hmmm, how to make up those losses.... What thing of value could he provide or do to make up for the loss .... Hmmm.....

Ding, ding, we have a winner. This is not jst a 21 year old having fun. This is one of the most important players on a team preparing to play for a national championship, upon which a lot, A LOT of money is being wagered.
It wasn't an incredibly stupid thing to do, it was an incredibly stupid place to be.

Indoor66
04-03-2009, 09:49 PM
IMO this whole thread is much ado about nothing.

turnandburn55
04-03-2009, 10:33 PM
Perhaps Ty "spent" $480 to "win" $500 - and he doesn't know (or notice) the difference between that and coming out $500 ahead.

Isn't this the same gentleman who thinks UNC "won" the ACC as well??

Truth
04-03-2009, 10:53 PM
Ding, ding, we have a winner. This is not jst a 21 year old having fun. This is one of the most important players on a team preparing to play for a national championship, upon which a lot, A LOT of money is being wagered.
It wasn't an incredibly stupid thing to do, it was an incredibly stupid place to be.

He was playing CRAPS. Not betting on sports. And there's not even a sportsbook in the place!

Craps is a far, far cry from point-shaving scandals.

Let's allow this thread to melt away, shall we...

WiJoe
04-03-2009, 11:25 PM
Let's allow this thread to melt away, shall we...

Lets NOT

Lawson should not have been there, period. This is an underplayed story nationally. He and Huckleberry Roy should be getting roasted to no end. NO END. There are standards that need to be lived up to, and that includes STAYING OUT OF CASINOS.

Kewlswim
04-03-2009, 11:26 PM
No, actually they were not. Carolina was up by 3, yes 3, points when the so-called "bad" travel call was made. Had Villanova's basket counted, Carolina would still have had a one point lead AND the ball with no more than 7 seconds left, in which case they most likely still would have won.

Hi,

I thought it was a travel instead of a foul. If it was a foul didn't the shot go in? It has been a while, you might be right.

GO DUKE!

Truth
04-04-2009, 12:29 AM
Lets NOT

Lawson should not have been there, period. This is an underplayed story nationally. He and Huckleberry Roy should be getting roasted to no end. NO END. There are standards that need to be lived up to, and that includes STAYING OUT OF CASINOS.

WHY?

Aside from the bad PR, why exactly should a 21-year old Lawson not be allowed into a casino??

KyDevilinIL
04-04-2009, 01:01 AM
Aside from the bad PR, why exactly should a 21-year old Lawson not be allowed into a casino??

Exactly. I'm not much of a gambler (this thread prompted me to try an online craps game, and I couldn't even figure out what the heck to do), but I kinda applaud the guy for being open about partaking in a fully legal activity. If the NCAA is worried about that, then the whole endeavor is in a heap of trouble.

The Lawson story is mildly amusing. The consternation on this thread is mind-boggling, IMO.

Edouble
04-04-2009, 02:49 AM
http://i.tsn.com/i/photos/20090403/111990.jpg

Given all of the college point shaving scandals through the years, this is not exactly the image that Myles Brand wants to project to the public of, well, student-athletes

Well, maybe it's legal if you're 21, but I really don't think he should have been wearing his uniform.

JStuart
04-04-2009, 08:26 AM
Isn't that Jay Bilas, in the upper left hand corner, offering advice?

dukemsu
04-04-2009, 09:55 AM
Yeah, maybe tonight Ty and his mates should consider a trip over to Canada
to take in the Windsor Ballet! :cool:

That is probably why the coaches are staying over there!

dukemsu

moonpie23
04-04-2009, 10:16 AM
this will only be relevant or funny if they lose.....if they win the whole thing, they are teflon..


uconn might not be.....but unc will certainly be...

AnimalFriendly
04-04-2009, 10:55 AM
Hi,

I thought it was a travel instead of a foul. If it was a foul didn't the shot go in? It has been a while, you might be right.

GO DUKE!

Right, the Villanova player did score, down by 3, but was ruled to have traveled beforehand so the basket was waived off. I'm just saying that even if the travel call hadn't been made, Carolina still would have had the ball and a 1 point lead with 7 seconds left. And yes, they could have lost with that scenario but the chances are much greater, IMO, that they would have still won. I also remember that the talking TV heads were evenly split as to whether the travel call was correct or not - Rick Majerus was adamant that it was correct. To me, the call only served to even out the fact that, for the only time that entire season, Ray Felton fouled out of a game - courtesy of at least one call that seemed very questionable. Had Felton been in the game to its conclusion, Villanova probably never even gets as close as it did in the final minute.

jpfrizzle
04-04-2009, 01:00 PM
IMO this whole thread is much ado about nothing.

I couldn't agree more.
Its a waste of good thread.
Or did Hollywood run outta things to talk about?

Go DUKE