Mason Plumlee Highlight reel

[jma4life]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVDr8w1jUF4

Look, Olek looked just as impressive as Mason here. This in no way indicates much of anything other than the fact that Mason Plumlee has at the minimum, had one minute of really good plays. I think in combination with the scouting report, it's encouraging (as opposed to with Olek) but nonetheless, I am not watching this video and stating that Mason is the answer to the post, etc.


What I can without any doubt conclude is:

a. Mason is bigger than I thought. Doesn't look like Miles yet, but he seems to have the build of a guy that can put on weight pretty easily, as opposed to guys like Thomas and Scheyer who have skinny frames, and body types that struggle to add much mass. That is a good thing. If K wants to make him a banger, with Duke's S&C, he'll be able to put on the weight.

b. He's athletic. I'd heard conflicting reports on this. Obviously with his track and field high jump success, you'd figure he's a pretty good athlete and Miles can get up well too, but some had told me he wasn't a spectacular athlete. Well, maybe that's true but athleticism is if anything, an asset to his game. He's an explosive big man. That does not equal success in a Duke uniform. But given Mason's skillset and basketball IQ, it's nice to know that whatever level that is at will be accompanied by good athletic ability.

[nyr484]

He looks like a right-handed Josh McRoberts. I mean that as a compliment. Let's just hope that Mason plays with some heart and intensity and doesn't settle for 15-foot fadeaways 80% of the time.

[chrisheery]

How that translates to ACC play remains to be seen, but it is certainly more encouraging than watching a guy with no athleticism. Its the one thing coaches just cant teach.

[slower]

Both Plumlee and Kelly look to have better handles and offensive skillsets than McRoberts, so that's encouraging. Plus, they both look fairly athletic. Kelly actually reminds me more of Dunleavy than McRoberts and looks to be ahead of Plumlee offensively, whereas it looks as if Mason can get up a little higher. I never saw Shavlik play in HS, but these guys, at a glance, both seem more fluid than he was (though I could be wrong, of course). Anyway, we'll find out soon!

[jma4life]

Disagree that athleticism can't be improved, although it's not easy. (Both Smith and Singler did increase their verticals over the summer, Dunleavy put 5 inches on his the year before he blew up with Indiana. Numerous other cases are present.) Plus, at this level, more attention needs to be put on skill development as opposed to with football where improving athletic ability is a more central focus during the summer and offseason, which is another reason football players find it so much easier to improve athletic ability.

So I guess what I'm really saying is, given the fact that it's tough for basketball players to find the time to work on improving athletic ability, I certainly do agree with the premise of your point. Because of the energy expended on working on your actual skills, time for improving athleticism is short, and hence, you are absolutely right that players at most D-1 programs will find it hard to get much more athletic while in college and hence, that it is nice to see that Mason is already athletic.

[SMO]

I really like the play that starts at the 1:00 mark. The athelticism is clearly there, but that play shows some audacity and an edge I would not have assumed is in this guy.

[roywhite]

May have made this comment before, but our recent experiences with big men and McDonald's A-A players have led us to be very cautious or even skeptical about our incoming recruits Mason and Ryan.

IMO both are going to be very good players that can help next year and be excellent beyond that.

[gotham devil]

Both Plumlee and Kelly look to have better handles and offensive skillsets than McRoberts, so that's encouraging. Plus, they both look fairly athletic. Kelly actually reminds me more of Dunleavy than McRoberts and looks to be ahead of Plumlee offensively, whereas it looks as if Mason can get up a little higher. I never saw Shavlik play in HS, but these guys, at a glance, both seem more fluid than he was (though I could be wrong, of course). Anyway, we'll find out soon!

6'11" guys looking to dribble are always an ulcer-inducer for their coaches and an off-the-ball guard defender's dream.

[CDu]

Both Plumlee and Kelly look to have better handles and offensive skillsets than McRoberts, so that's encouraging. Plus, they both look fairly athletic. Kelly actually reminds me more of Dunleavy than McRoberts and looks to be ahead of Plumlee offensively, whereas it looks as if Mason can get up a little higher. I never saw Shavlik play in HS, but these guys, at a glance, both seem more fluid than he was (though I could be wrong, of course). Anyway, we'll find out soon!

I disagree with this particular assessment, as McRoberts was a VERY gifted ballhandler. The two may be better shooters, but I didn't really see anything that differentiated Plumlee from McRoberts as a ballhandler. I also haven't seen any evidence of a post-up game, so they don't really address one of the bigger needs on this team. He does appear to address one need (size with some athleticism).

Of course, watching a highlight tape of transition buckets against inferior high school competition doesn't really give much insight into how Plumlee will transition to the half-court college game (which was noted in the original post).

Hopefully one (or both) of them can provide an impact for us next year, giving us another offensive weapon to put pressure on the other team's bigs and provide help on the boards. I don't think we're going to gather much from the highlight tapes.

[chrisheery]

Disagree that athleticism can't be improved, although it's not easy. (Both Smith and Singler did increase their verticals over the summer, Dunleavy put 5 inches on his the year before he blew up with Indiana. Numerous other cases are present.) Plus, at this level, more attention needs to be put on skill development as opposed to with football where improving athletic ability is a more central focus during the summer and offseason, which is another reason football players find it so much easier to improve athletic ability.

So I guess what I'm really saying is, given the fact that it's tough for basketball players to find the time to work on improving athletic ability, I certainly do agree with the premise of your point. Because of the energy expended on working on your actual skills, time for improving athleticism is short, and hence, you are absolutely right that players at most D-1 programs will find it hard to get much more athletic while in college and hence, that it is nice to see that Mason is already athletic.

I think you are talking about measures of athleticism. While someone may get stronger by lifting weights, playing everyday, doing drills, etc, they do not improve their actual baseline athleticism. There is always a certain ceiling based on the player/person's inborn athletic talent. You cannot teach someone to be a better athlete. You can teach them how to maximize what they have.

[Greg_Newton]

As always, the biggest question will be can he develop some semblance of a back to the basket game. Although... I will tentatively say that he looks like he at least has the potential to be an offensive threat that creates for himself, rather just finishing alley-oops. I also think he looks sturdier and moves more aggressively and strongly than his brother did at his age. But then again, this is all from comparing highlight videos, so who really knows.

Further proof of his athleticism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShZo32M5cT8 I mean, WOW.

Freeze it when he catches the ball... Grant Hill anyone?

[jma4life]

I suppose. I mean, if you improve your 40 yard dash by a couple tenths of a second, and put 5 inches on your vertical, I guess you could say that you've simply improved your measures of athleticism. I think it will translate into helping you play better but again, that's a topic for another discussion.

[slower]

I disagree with this particular assessment, as McRoberts was a VERY gifted ballhandler. The two may be better shooters, but I didn't really see anything that differentiated Plumlee from McRoberts as a ballhandler.

I agree that Plumlee may not have a BETTER handle than McRoberts. Kelly, at least on YouTube:D, looks to be a better ballhandler then McRoberts.

[hc5duke]

I really like the play that starts at the 1:00 mark. The athelticism is clearly there, but that play shows some audacity and an edge I would not have assumed is in this guy.

Pretty sure that is not a legal move (throwing the ball at the backboard for the purpose of catching/dunking it). I guess if he legitimately missed and got the rebound it might be, but it's hard to tell from that video. I may not be remembering this correctly but Steve Francis actually had a basket waived off for the exact same move, (of all places) in an NBA all-star game one year.

[jma4life]

McGrady did it in the allstar game with no call made against. Kobe actually did it in the playoffs last year too, but he made it look somewhat like a shot. From a practical point of view, I don't see what rules it breaks. How can it be proved that it's not a shot that was being taken?

[FireOgilvie]

As always, the biggest question will be can he develop some semblance of a back to the basket game. Although... I will tentatively say that he looks like he at least has the potential to be an offensive threat that creates for himself, rather just finishing alley-oops. I also think he looks sturdier and moves more aggressively and strongly than his brother did at his age. But then again, this is all from comparing highlight videos, so who really knows.

Further proof of his athleticism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShZo32M5cT8 I mean, WOW.

Freeze it when he catches the ball... Grant Hill anyone?

Here is a screen capture from that video... look at where he catches the ball and where his head is in relation to the rim.

[mcdukie]

I agree that throwing the ball against the backboard is not a rules violation. As far as Kelly and Plumlee as recruits, I think they are very talented but very similar. I also did not see any back to the basket moves. I see more Singler than McRoberts. Anyway, they are both talented and I am sure K will find something to do with them.

[Newton_14]

I don't worry so much about these guys being "bangers" or "back to the basket" guys. They have gifts that cannot be taught. Their skill set combined with length/size is a great thing to have. Look at Ed Davis. He is not a banger, but his incredible wingspan and length give him advantages on both ends of the court.

I think both Mason and Ryan bring attributes we have not had in a while. With their size and length they can alter shots in the paint and better compete for rebounds than guys like Lance and Dave. Even if they are not true post up guys, it does not mean they can't score around the hoop.

I am excited about how good they both can be and that we have them both rather than just 1. I really think that Kelly, MP1, and MP2 will push LT and Zoubs hard for playing time next year. We will have 5 options for post play, with 3 very different skillsets among the 5 guys.

I look forward to watching all of that unfolding...

[DukieBoy]

Pretty sure that is not a legal move (throwing the ball at the backboard for the purpose of catching/dunking it). I guess if he legitimately missed and got the rebound it might be, but it's hard to tell from that video. I may not be remembering this correctly but Steve Francis actually had a basket waived off for the exact same move, (of all places) in an NBA all-star game one year.

O.J. Mayo did it in the high school championship game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53ssZaWoWEs) a couple year's back. He got T'd up for throwing the ball into the stands though, but throwing off the backboard is perfectly legit.

[COYS]

I agree that throwing the ball against the backboard is not a rules violation. As far as Kelly and Plumlee as recruits, I think they are very talented but very similar. I also did not see any back to the basket moves. I see more Singler than McRoberts. Anyway, they are both talented and I am sure K will find something to do with them.

I really think their similarities have been overemphasized. They are both big guys with perimeter skills and more polished face up games than low post games. That being said, Kelly is much more of a ball handler, has far greater range and consistency on his jumper, is more polished offensively, but, according to the writeups, lacks some of the defensive abilities of Mason (not as consistent at rebounding, shot blocking, etc.). Kelly is a deadly three point threat and I would expect to see him spend more time on the perimeter than Mason, even if Mason makes most of his moves from the high post rather than the low. Both players are extremely versatile, though, and I would expect to see their roles change and develop over time as it becomes more apparent what their greatest strengths are.

[RainingThrees]

I really think their similarities have been overemphasized. They are both big guys with perimeter skills and more polished face up games than low post games. That being said, Kelly is much more of a ball handler, has far greater range and consistency on his jumper, is more polished offensively, but, according to the writeups, lacks some of the defensive abilities of Mason (not as consistent at rebounding, shot blocking, etc.). Kelly is a deadly three point threat and I would expect to see him spend more time on the perimeter than Mason, even if Mason makes most of his moves from the high post rather than the low. Both players are extremely versatile, though, and I would expect to see their roles change and develop over time as it becomes more apparent what their greatest strengths are.

I agree with everything you said except that Kelly is a shot blocking threat and not quite a deadly 3 point threat but can hit the open 3 point shot. Kelly's bread and butter seems to be the mid-range game and his handles, while Mason is a great defender and rebounder that runs the floor well and makes good use of spin moves and fakes to get layups. In short Kelly is more Mike Dunleavy and Mason more Josh McRoberts with a strong work ethic.

[COYS]

I agree with everything you said except that Kelly is a shot blocking threat and not quite a deadly 3 point threat but can hit the open 3 point shot. Kelly's bread and butter seems to be the mid-range game and his handles, while Mason is a great defender and rebounder that runs the floor well and makes good use of spin moves and fakes to get layups. In short Kelly is more Mike Dunleavy and Mason more Josh McRoberts with a strong work ethic.

Sorry if the parenthesis in my post confused you, but I was saying that Kelly isn't the shot blocking threat that Mason is. Anyway, we are in agreement and I really do look forward to seeing them both play next year. I honestly feel that many Duke fans have very much undersold both of these guys. Mason was an up-and-comer when he committed and didn't have the lofty rankings at the time that tend to get a fan base excited. Kelly committed while everyone was following the Boynton recruiting saga. And neither guy is the "banger" or the point guard that so many fans think is our only ticket back to the FF. Granted, Josh Smith in '10 or Wall for next year would be incredible, but both Mason and Ryan are going to be good and important players for Duke, and both have the potential to be stars.

[whereinthehellami]

I honestly feel that many Duke fans have very much undersold both of these guys. Granted, Josh Smith in '10 or Wall for next year would be incredible, but both Mason and Ryan are going to be good and important players for Duke, and both have the potential to be stars.

I'll take the other route and say that they are being oversold. I think they are both solid and can in time be very good but they are coming from weak HS competition. The ACC is going to be shock for them. They have at best average athletiscm for the ACC. I'm hoping that they are solid and that one of them can blossom enough next year to become a starter but don't really see that happening with Zoobs and Thomas being seniors. Anyway the fun of the off-season is getting excited by paper tigers.

[COYS]

I'll take the other route and say that they are being oversold. I think they are both solid and can in time be very good but they are coming from weak HS competition. The ACC is going to be shock for them. They have at best average athletiscm for the ACC. I'm hoping that they are solid and that one of them can blossom enough next year to become a starter but don't really see that happening with Zoobs and Thomas being seniors. Anyway the fun of the off-season is getting excited by paper tigers.

I guess John Wall doesn't face quality competition either since he and Kelly play on the same AAU team. In these days of skills camps, AAU leagues, and other showcases, both players have had their opportunity to shine against good competition. Oh, and I forgot to add the U-18 world championships (it is U-18, right) in which Kelly started for the silver medal winning USA team. Maybe they don't play for an Oak Hill or something like that, but even guys who shine for top basketball schools (Nolan) aren't guaranteed to be stars when they step onto campus either. I don't think HS competition should be used to judge how a player will develop at the college level, especially since almost all HS players are playing for AAU teams, participate in summer showcases, etc.

Actually, I think you and I are perhaps in agreement for the most part. I also don't expect Kelly and Mason to be stars when they step onto campus. I think they will need time to develop. That being said, I think both have the potential to be very good players and (Mason, in particular) can give us the production in the post that we need in terms of rebounding, defense, etc. I think that both have the potential to contribute next year.

[whereinthehellami]

I guess John Wall doesn't face quality competition either since he and Kelly play on the same AAU team. In these days of skills camps, AAU leagues, and other showcases, both players have had their opportunity to shine against good competition. Oh, and I forgot to add the U-18 world championships (it is U-18, right) in which Kelly started for the silver medal winning USA team. Maybe they don't play for an Oak Hill or something like that, but even guys who shine for top basketball schools (Nolan) aren't guaranteed to be stars when they step onto campus either. I don't think HS competition should be used to judge how a player will develop at the college level, especially since almost all HS players are playing for AAU teams, participate in summer showcases, etc.

Actually, I think you and I are perhaps in agreement for the most part. I also don't expect Kelly and Mason to be stars when they step onto campus. I think they will need time to develop. That being said, I think both have the potential to be very good players and (Mason, in particular) can give us the production in the post that we need in terms of rebounding, defense, etc. I think that both have the potential to contribute next year.

I think we are on the same page. But while AAU is good for indiviual national exposure, the teams never really practice together and usually just play in tournaments. Its definately a different climate now days for prep players.

[Greg_Newton]

They have at best average athletiscm for the ACC.

I find it difficult to look at the screenshot a few posts down and agree with you there. When was the last time you saw Chase MacFarland or Tyler Hansbrough reach well over the square off of a short running start? Or any ACC big man, for that matter? I think Mason will certainly look like a freshman at times, but I think he'll hold his own physically. He's got a sturdy enough frame and he's long and bouncy enough that he'll be able to compensate for giving up a few pounds to opponents...IMHO.

Also, it's definitely true that Christ School played many weak teams, but they also played some decent teams (Oak Hill, several out of state tournaments) and were nationally ranked. Add that to the AAU/summer circuit, and it's not like he hasn't played against legit competition. I'm not expecting him to dominate from Day 1 or anything, but I think he'll be much more of an impact player than Miles was this year.

As for Ryan, I agree... he's not an above-average athlete, but he doesn't really need to be seeing as he's a 6-10 combo forward. From what I have seen he is extremely mobile and dunks quickly and easily, which is really all the athleticism he needs.

I'll be watching very attentively Wednesday night... hope our guys do well!

[NSDukeFan]

I don't worry so much about these guys being "bangers" or "back to the basket" guys. They have gifts that cannot be taught. Their skill set combined with length/size is a great thing to have. Look at Ed Davis. He is not a banger, but his incredible wingspan and length give him advantages on both ends of the court.

I think both Mason and Ryan bring attributes we have not had in a while. With their size and length they can alter shots in the paint and better compete for rebounds than guys like Lance and Dave. Even if they are not true post up guys, it does not mean they can't score around the hoop.

I am excited about how good they both can be and that we have them both rather than just 1. I really think that Kelly, MP1, and MP2 will push LT and Zoubs hard for playing time next year. We will have 5 options for post play, with 3 very different skillsets among the 5 guys.

I look forward to watching all of that unfolding...

I agree completely with your post and am excited for our frontcourt depth and am not sure that we need to have one of the ten? quality back to the basket scorers in division 1 next year to be successful as long as we have options to get points and touches inside. I was very impressed with how we rebounded this year (except for a couple of games I will not mention right now) and hope for improvement in that area next year. I am also looking forward to more of a defensive presence to challenge or discourage shots inside and on penetration. Practices should be very competitive next year. (I'm sure they were this year as well.)

[NSDukeFan]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVDr8w1jUF4



I love the move he makes to the hoop going right from the top of the key and kind of curls the ball against his body with one hand with his right hand. It reminded me of a certain third team all american who I would love to see back in Duke blue next year (if he feels it is the best decision.)

[flyingdutchdevil]

Did any of you see the McDonald's AA game when McRoberts won the MVP? He looked so damn good. I was so excited that we had him and thought we were doing to win next year (and we should have. Damn LSU).

McBob had an outside game, had a nasty handle, and was extremely versatile. IMO, he was more impressive than Kelly or Plumlee as a high schooler. But, as soon as he entered Duke, he stopped trying. He just didn't seem to care. As a freshman, everyone thought he was great because he got all these easy shots in since the opposing teams were focused on JJ and Shelden. As a sophmore, when he became option numero uno, he couldn't handle it.

Bottomline, while I don't think Kelly or Plumlee are as talented as McBob when he was in high school, I think they have much more desire. And that is priceless.

That said, comparing someone's athletisism in high school vs ACC competition is so pointless. In all honesty, Zoubs was probably one of the most athletic players on the court when he was in high school.

[chrisheery]

That said, comparing someone's athletisism in high school vs ACC competition is so pointless. In all honesty, Zoubs was probably one of the most athletic players on the court when he was in high school.

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

Really!?!?

Please watch the videos and see if you can see a difference. Anyone who tells you can tell how good a player will be by watching highlights is probably misinformed. But, to suggest that a players innate athleticism is not portrayed in these videos is also too much of an extreme. Agreed?

[flyingdutchdevil]

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

Really!?!?

Please watch the videos and see if you can see a difference. Anyone who tells you can tell how good a player will be by watching highlights is probably misinformed. But, to suggest that a players innate athleticism is not portrayed in these videos is also too much of an extreme. Agreed?

Sure. I'll agree that "innate" athleticism is portrayed in these videos. But the competition in high school is so weak compared to the ACC. Everyone in the ACC is superiorly athletic than the competition they played in high school. The vast majority of players on Duke, and in the ACC, (and yes, I agree with you on the Zoubs point) were probably some of the most athletics guys in their high school leagues. It's like me playing against a bunch of 6 year olds - sadly, my "athleticism" would be superior against inferior competition

[chrisheery]

Sure. I'll agree that "innate" athleticism is portrayed in these videos. But the competition in high school is so weak compared to the ACC. Everyone in the ACC is superiorly athletic than the competition they played in high school. The vast majority of players on Duke, and in the ACC, (and yes, I agree with you on the Zoubs point) were probably some of the most athletics guys in their high school leagues. It's like me playing against a bunch of 6 year olds - sadly, my "athleticism" would be superior against inferior competition

Well, no . . . its not like that at all. Unless you could play those 6 year olds on an eight foot hoop. That's what I mean. He is making moves that require a certain degree of athleticism that cannot be faked no matter how nice the tape is. When you watch Lance Thomas' video, it is also clear that he was not a dynamic athlete. He had to wind up to get dunks down. Zoub's video speaks for itself. The clip where Mason almost hits his head on the rim while catching (and finishing) an alley-oop is a perfect example. The degree of difficulty there, while it can't be applied to his ability to actually play and contribute, clearly demonstrates remarkable athleticism.

I am not saying he will be more athletic than ACC players, simply that he has the requisite tools required to participate, unlike the vast majority of people over 6'8" in the world.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Well, no . . . its not like that at all. Unless you could play those 6 year olds on an eight foot hoop. That's what I mean. He is making moves that require a certain degree of athleticism that cannot be faked no matter how nice the tape is. When you watch Lance Thomas' video, it is also clear that he was not a dynamic athlete. He had to wind up to get dunks down. Zoub's video speaks for itself. The clip where Mason almost hits his head on the rim while catching (and finishing) an alley-oop is a perfect example. The degree of difficulty there, while it can't be applied to his ability to actually play and contribute, clearly demonstrates remarkable athleticism.

I am not saying he will be more athletic than ACC players, simply that he has the requisite tools required to participate, unlike the vast majority of people over 6'8" in the world.

For the record, I hope your right and that their athleticism is as impressive as you say it is.

That said, Lance Thomas's video, and I just watched it, is impressive. He showed clear athleticism. And no, I don't define athleticism by how high you can jump. Agility is a more appropriate definition of athleticism and Lance has it (he clearly has it against lesser competition).

[chrisheery]

For the record, I hope your right and that their athleticism is as impressive as you say it is.

Me too. Can't wait to find out.

[Greg_Newton]

That said, Lance Thomas's video, and I just watched it, is impressive. He showed clear athleticism. And no, I don't define athleticism by how high you can jump. Agility is a more appropriate definition of athleticism and Lance has it (he clearly has it against lesser competition).

This is sort of apples and oranges, but I don't know about equating athleticism with agility... to me, at least, athleticism means elevation and agility ties in more with quickness. Quickness and agility are traits that can be "faked" to some extent in that we judge them in relation to other players on the court (so weak competition can result in an exaggerated impression). However, elevation is usually judged in relation to the rim/backboard, which is constant no matter who you're playing. My point when posting the link to the alley-oop earlier was simply to point out how high off of the floor Mason was able to reach with a pretty standard launch.

Granted, quickness/lateral agility is also extremely important, we just won't really have any great way of accurately assessing it until next year. For now, I just think it's pretty encouraging to see that his length/vertical appears to be equal to or better than any ACC big men I've seen recently, with the possible exception of Ed Davis or Zeller when he's healthy. And for a big man, that's extremely important.

[jma4life]

This is just semantics. Call it whatever you want. The bottom line is at the very least, you can deduce that Plumlee can jump.

I suppose you can look quicker when going up against slower defenders. That aspect of athletic ability does indeed depend on the competition. But as one poster said, when you get your head near the rim, or your hands above the square, you have a good vertical. Doesn't matter if you're doing that in an empty gym or in a game against NBA players. If you jump 30 some odd inches, it's 30 some odd inches against any competition. (By the way, Plumlee is very successful at high jump. And he might not be as quick as Lance, but I can almost guarantee that he'll be quicker dribbling with the ball. Furthermore, I believe that he will be a little more powerful too.)

Anyway, as I stated at the beginning, Olek is only one of a million cases of guys with great hops or explosive ability that was unable to contribute as a freshmen. There are numerous guys far more athletic than Plumlee who will not do a damn thing at the high school level, let alone college or the ACC. But, again, it's still nice that given his skill set, it will be accompanied by what appears to be good athleticism.

And stating that Zoubek looked athletic in high school is from the videos I've seen, if not downright false, then a pretty big stretch. (He was smoother back then, but that's something that's highly dependent on competition.)

[Newton_14]

Did any of you see the McDonald's AA game when McRoberts won the MVP? He looked so damn good. I was so excited that we had him and thought we were doing to win next year (and we should have. Damn LSU).

McBob had an outside game, had a nasty handle, and was extremely versatile. IMO, he was more impressive than Kelly or Plumlee as a high schooler. But, as soon as he entered Duke, he stopped trying. He just didn't seem to care. As a freshman, everyone thought he was great because he got all these easy shots in since the opposing teams were focused on JJ and Shelden. As a sophmore, when he became option numero uno, he couldn't handle it.

Bottomline, while I don't think Kelly or Plumlee are as talented as McBob when he was in high school, I think they have much more desire. And that is priceless.

That said, comparing someone's athletisism in high school vs ACC competition is so pointless. In all honesty, Zoubs was probably one of the most athletic players on the court when he was in high school.



Ahh, but the one thing that both Mason and Ryan have that is superior to McBob is the ability to shoot the basketball. McBob has/had incredible athletic ability, ball handling skills, hops, etc, but his downfall was inability to shoot, at all, from anywhere on the floor. 2 feet, 8 feet, 15 feet or 30, it did not matter, dude could not put the ball in the hole. He was a natural right hander who chose to shoot left handed early in life due to a injury if I recall correctly, and he made the fatal mistake of never going back to his dominant hand. IMO, that plus the surgery on his back, destroyed his game. He had a ton of ability and talent, and could have been a really good college player if he had chosen to stick it out and work hard. Can you imagine the Duke teams of the past 2 seasons with a healthy McBob with a good attitude, playing beside Singler?

Anyway, twas not meant to be as they say. One thing that McBob did have over these guys was "hot mom"! To be fair I have not seen Mason or Ryan's mom's yet, but they will be hard pressed to match Miss McBob!

Back to seriousness, the ability to put the ball in the hole is desperately needed on next years team. I hope at least one, if not both of Mr. Kelly and Mr. Plumlee2 can contribute with that!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Ahh, but the one thing that both Mason and Ryan have that is superior to McBob is the ability to shoot the basketball. McBob has/had incredible athletic ability, ball handling skills, hops, etc, but his downfall was inability to shoot, at all, from anywhere on the floor. 2 feet, 8 feet, 15 feet or 30, it did not matter, dude could not put the ball in the hole. He was a natural right hander who chose to shoot left handed early in life due to a injury if I recall correctly, and he made the fatal mistake of never going back to his dominant hand. IMO, that plus the surgery on his back, destroyed his game. He had a ton of ability and talent, and could have been a really good college player if he had chosen to stick it out and work hard. Can you imagine the Duke teams of the past 2 seasons with a healthy McBob with a good attitude, playing beside Singler?

Anyway, twas not meant to be as they say. One thing that McBob did have over these guys was "hot mom"! To be fair I have not seen Mason or Ryan's mom's yet, but they will be hard pressed to match Miss McBob!

Back to seriousness, the ability to put the ball in the hole is desperately needed on next years team. I hope at least one, if not both of Mr. Kelly and Mr. Plumlee2 can contribute with that!

A couple of things. First, did you see the McD AA game? McBob could shoot. Maybe it was that game, but I recall he was a good shooter in high school as well. College, and the ACC, changes things.

Secondly, Miss McBob was hot. And I have no idea about the Plumlee or Ryan family. But have you seen Sonya Curry, Seth's mom? OMG.... she puts Miss McBob to shame!!

[captmojo]

Mason got robbed at jam-fest. Second place in the dunk? I blame Steve Smith. :D

[Newton_14]

A couple of things. First, did you see the McD AA game? McBob could shoot. Maybe it was that game, but I recall he was a good shooter in high school as well. College, and the ACC, changes things.

Secondly, Miss McBob was hot. And I have no idea about the Plumlee or Ryan family. But have you seen Sonya Curry, Seth's mom? OMG.... she puts Miss McBob to shame!!

Yeah, I did catch McBob in the McD game. I loved his game, and I hated it when he left because I felt he could help the team alot. But in the 2 years he was here, he struggled mightily finding a go to shot that was consistent.


And yes, I have seen Mrs. Curry. She will be a lovely addition to the parents seating section. Looks aside, I am very glad Seth came aboard, because in my opinion his parents are first class all the way. Very nice looking family, can't wait to see them in Cameron!

[flyingdutchdevil]

Yeah, I did catch McBob in the McD game. I loved his game, and I hated it when he left because I felt he could help the team alot. But in the 2 years he was here, he struggled mightily finding a go to shot that was consistent.


And yes, I have seen Mrs. Curry. She will be a lovely addition to the parents seating section. Looks aside, I am very glad Seth came aboard, because in my opinion his parents are first class all the way. Very nice looking family, can't wait to see them in Cameron!

I like G Sr better with his ball cap and sleeveless sweaters

[Newton_14]

Mason got robbed at jam-fest. Second place in the dunk? I blame Steve Smith. :D

So I take it our "prized" recruit represented well in the dunk competition? How did he look out there?

Also, I was unable to catch it live tonight, any idea if they will air a replay sometime this week?

[roywhite]

So I take it our "prized" recruit represented well in the dunk competition? How did he look out there?

Also, I was unable to catch it live tonight, any idea if they will air a replay sometime this week?

Replay tonight at 11:00, and a time or two later in week also.

Mason looked very good in the dunk contest; as you may know from other threads, he finished 2nd, and Ryan Kelly won the 3-pt contest. Kelly looks to be 6'10" and Mason looks every bit of 6'11"; both are also filling out somewhat.

I think we have two gems.

[UrinalCake]

What I find the most entertaining about these YouTube highlight videos are the heights of the players trying to defend the star player in question. It's not even funny. It's like they're a totally different species. I used to have this EA Sports NBA Live video game on my computer where you could create your own players, and of course the first thing everyone did was make someone as tall and as big as they would allow, something like 7'7" and 350lb. These YouTube clilps remind me of watching "Tiny" dunk on everyone.

[Newton_14]

Replay tonight at 11:00, and a time or two later in week also.

Mason looked very good in the dunk contest; as you may know from other threads, he finished 2nd, and Ryan Kelly won the 3-pt contest. Kelly looks to be 6'10" and Mason looks every bit of 6'11"; both are also filling out somewhat.

I think we have two gems.

Great! Thanks Roy! Setting the DVR now.

Much needed size and length! I am really really hoping both of these young men end up being impact players. And maybe the Kelly/Wall relationship helps with adding a top notch PG to play along side these guys!

[DukieBoy]

Really?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-AeSs7iRRM

Really!?!?

Please watch the videos and see if you can see a difference. Anyone who tells you can tell how good a player will be by watching highlights is probably misinformed. But, to suggest that a players innate athleticism is not portrayed in these videos is also too much of an extreme. Agreed?

Why does he dunk it everytime he gets close here, but always tries to just finesse the ball in now. THROW IT DOWN BIG FELLA!!!!

[Redick#1Fan22]

I watched Mason in the McDonald's All-American Dunk contest tonight and I found myself thinking if I was watching McRoberts again. He looks, jumps, and plays just like Josh did. I just hope that he can make an impact early as a big.

[RainingThrees]

I watched Mason in the McDonald's All-American Dunk contest tonight and I found myself thinking if I was watching McRoberts again. He looks, jumps, and plays just like Josh did. I just hope that he can make an impact early as a big.

Very comparable but I believe that Mason has a very strong work ethic and will have other people he will have to earn time from. Who did McRoberts have to take away his minutes?

[ChicagoCrazy84]

I just have a couple things to say regarding Mason and the premise to this thread. When people say a highlight reel is not truly indicative to the type of player he is, in a way that is true, but at the same time, it can show you a lot. Has anyone seen a highlight reel of Brian Zoubek in high school? It was really not that impressive. It was merely his teammates throing over the shoulder passes to him with Zoubek catching it near the rim for a layup. It really didn't show any kind of thematic skill set. With Plumlee, you can see skill AND potential.
Secondly, when people say we need a low post banger and someone that can play with his back to the basket, I tend to disagree. I mean, look at Villanova! Also, there are not a ton of big guys out there that are exactly Greg Oden's. As long as you can fill the rest of the floor with the right type of players, it doesn't matter. The fact is, you can't have a Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly and fill in the other 3 spots with Singler, Scheyer, and Nolan Smith. Why? Because they are all the same type of player and it's going to start to work against you. You need athletic guards to fill in the rest so you can actually utilize Plumlee's and Kelly's talent. Running the floor, getting in transition, pick and pop, drive and kick. That is what the problem was this year with our lineups. You had too much of the same player and you saw how it worked against us vs. Villanova. That is why we are going after good quick PG's now like John Wall.

[roywhite]

I
Secondly, when people say we need a low post banger and someone that can play with his back to the basket, I tend to disagree. I mean, look at Villanova! Also, there are not a ton of big guys out there that are exactly Greg Oden's. As long as you can fill the rest of the floor with the right type of players, it doesn't matter. The fact is, you can't have a Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly and fill in the other 3 spots with Singler, Scheyer, and Nolan Smith. Why? Because they are all the same type of player and it's going to start to work against you. You need athletic guards to fill in the rest so you can actually utilize Plumlee's and Kelly's talent. Running the floor, getting in transition, pick and pop, drive and kick. That is what the problem was this year with our lineups. You had too much of the same player and you saw how it worked against us vs. Villanova. That is why we are going after good quick PG's now like John Wall.

Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but I expect there'll be plenty of times (more in their 2nd year and beyond) when Mason and Ryan Kelly would play at the same time. UNC often has two 6'9" or taller players on the floor at the same time. Both Mason and Ryan show good skills and the potential to be very versatile.

[Kedsy]

Not to get too far ahead of ourselves, but I expect there'll be plenty of times (more in their 2nd year and beyond) when Mason and Ryan Kelly would play at the same time. UNC often has two 6'9" or taller players on the floor at the same time. Both Mason and Ryan show good skills and the potential to be very versatile.

I don't want to put words in the original poster's mouth, but (a) I don't think he was saying that Mason Plumlee and Ryan Kelly can't be on the floor together; to the contrary, (b) I think he was saying if you have the two of them on the floor together, it might not make the most sense to have them playing with three other catch-and-shoot sort of players.

Now, having said that, I disagree with the assumption that Nolan is a catch-and-shoot sort of player, and I haven't really seen him play but I'm not sure Mason is either. Kyle can be that sort of player, but he's usually a whole lot more. But the premise is sound -- if you play five guys who specialize in catching and shooting they'll all be standing around waiting for the ball.

[JimBD]

Mason's dunks seemed almost effortless. One of his "simple" dunks involved putting his lower arm in the basket and hanging onto the rim with the inside of his elbow joint. It seemed so easy that he got a low score for that dunk. He missed a couple of attempts where he tried to dunk three balls at once (only two went in), but I'm assuming he has been successful with that in practice. He is long and can get off the ground. He appears to be a very versatile player who can also give us an inside presence that has been lacking in recent years. I am excited.

[ice-9]

Kelly is a baller. He can shoot and he has a GREAT handle.

Any time you are an accurate long-range shooter; 6'9, 6'10; and have a good handle you are always dangerous no matter what your athleticism. When you play against shorter opponents, you can easily shoot over them. When you play against big opponents you can pull them away to the perimeter and/or drive against them.

Check out this clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UdOWXbYBk8k&feature=related

I absolutely think Ryan and Mason should see time together on the floor. They complement each other and will cause nightmare match-ups for the opposing team. What they really need though is a PG or a speedy wing player that can penetrate and utilize pick-related plays. Hopefully we get that guy in Wall, though I also think Scheyer, Nolan and Elliot can be those players.

One interesting line-up would be to have Singler, Ryan and Mason on the floor together. What a 3-headed monster that would be to defend! Three tall guys who can shoot, drive and pass. YIKES! The weakness with that lineup though is that I don't see Singler, Ryan and Mason doing a decent job with Coach K's style of pressure defense. With those three guys I think the most effective defensive scheme would be to play a 2-3 zone.

If Coach K is willing to do that, I think a lineup of Scheyer, Elliot, Singler, Ryan and Mason would be very, very intriguing. They would play an excellent zone and likely taller than the opposing team across the board. One can also substitute Nolan for Ellliot if a better jump shooter is needed.

[grossbus]

if wall is running the team, needing someone to play back-to-the-basket may not be that much of a priority.

[ChicagoCrazy84]

If Coach K is willing to do that, I think a lineup of Scheyer, Elliot, Singler, Ryan and Mason would be very, very intriguing. They would play an excellent zone and likely taller than the opposing team across the board. One can also substitute Nolan for Ellliot if a better jump shooter is needed.

See I disagree with this. These are all great players, yes, but there is no variety in this lineup. How are you going to get open shots? Kelly and Plumlee are very skilled, but I don't know if they can actually creatre shots for themselves. Almost every night, they are going to encounter players that are just as athletic as them. Maybe not as skilled, but defensively that doesn't matter. This is why we need a PG! With players like this, you need to run, run, and run more. Scheyer is not going to do that, and Elliot doesn't have the vision. I think a lineup with Curry, Smith, EWill, Kelly, and Plumlee is much much better.

[roywhite]

See I disagree with this. These are all great players, yes, but there is no variety in this lineup. How are you going to get open shots? Kelly and Plumlee are very skilled, but I don't know if they can actually creatre shots for themselves. Almost every night, they are going to encounter players that are just as athletic as them. Maybe not as skilled, but defensively that doesn't matter. This is why we need a PG! With players like this, you need to run, run, and run more. Scheyer is not going to do that, and Elliot doesn't have the vision. I think a lineup with Curry, Smith, EWill, Kelly, and Plumlee is much much better.

A couple of points:

1. Kelly and Mason Plumlee have the advantage of being tall, in terms of creating their own shots. Certainly a 6'10" player like Kelly who shoots well from 3-pt area is hard to defend. Mason is 6'11" and jumps well; he does apparently need to work on offensive moves.

2. Curry will not be eligible to play in 2009-10; you might see the lineup you suggest in 2010-11, though a freshman or two in the 2010 recruiting class could also enter the mix.

The good news is that Coach K and his staff have some interesting pieces to fit together.

[ice-9]

roywhite said it for me. When you have a player like Kelly, it's easy to get the shot off even with a player like Scheyer, Nolan or Elliot who are no slouches themselves.

Let's say it's Scheyer, who while not super quick is a heady player: Have Kelly set the high pick for Scheyer. If the defenders switch, Kelly is now matched up with a MUCH shorter player (6'10 vs 6'2? Practically open!). If there is no switch and Scheyer's defender goes under the pick, Scheyer has an open 3 point shot at the top which he likes to take and has made. If Scheyer's defender goes high than Scheyer can drive in. If Kelly's defender rotates to help Scheyer can then pass it out to Ryan who can drill it. Or maybe Kelly is rolling in, and because of his height, it should be easy for Scheyer to pass it in.

Basically, J-Will's and Battier's bread and butter, except we now have a taller version of Battier.

If any other defender tries to help out against this, then you'll have at least one of three capable shooters open or slashing to the basket: Nolan/Elliot, Singler and Mason.

[Kfanarmy]

If any other defender tries to help out against this, then you'll have at least one of three capable shooters open or slashing to the basket: Nolan/Elliot, Singler and Mason. One of the biggest problems the team had against villanova and in a few games throughout this season was not having anyone going to the basket without the ball...you can't pass inside if no one is there.

[Kfanarmy]

If any other defender tries to help out against this, then you'll have at least one of three capable shooters open or slashing to the basket: Nolan/Elliot, Singler and Mason. One of the biggest problems the team had against villanova and in a few games throughout this season was not having anyone going to the basket without the ball...you can't pass inside if no one is there.

[Newton_14]

ESPN did a blog with a few of the McD All-Stars last night, one of which was our Mason Plumlee. He had some interesting things to say. He talks about the excitement of coming to Duke, reuniting with his big brother and mentions he hopes his little brother develops enough to join them at Duke.. good stuff

here is the link, scroll down to find the comments from Mason...

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=25738

[Greg_Newton]

Nothing too crazy, just a couple of dunks that haven't been posted here yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0B5uqqh1vM

To me, the most impressive part is how fast he runs the floor end to end on the second dunk. He looks like a gazelle.

[chrisheery]

Nothing too crazy, just a couple of dunks that haven't been posted here yet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0B5uqqh1vM

To me, the most impressive part is how fast he runs the floor end to end on the second dunk. He looks like a gazelle.

Mine is how he almost hit his head on the rim on that last one. He's dynamic. I think he's gonna be a really really good one for us.

[eddiehaskell]

Imagine being able to go big and put two athletic 6'10" guys down low...6'8" Singler at 3, 6'4" (plays 6'8" with his hops) Hendo at 2 and Wall at the PG. Hehe - enough dreaming....time for bed.

Edit: Or put 6'5" Shceyer at point.

[sharpshooter88]

Mason Plumlee is the man! I can't wait for him to play in the 2009 Nike Hoops Summit on April 11, 2009 at 7 pm!

[roywhite]

Mason Plumlee is the man! I can't wait for him to play in the 2009 Nike Hoops Summit on April 11, 2009 at 7 pm!

http://www.usabasketball.com/news.php?news_page=09_hsum_feature_plumlee

Nice article on Mason and the Hoops Summit from the usabasketball site. Good comment about playing with John Wall.