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DukeWarhead
03-27-2009, 09:38 PM
Of course it's always too early to seriously talk about who will take the helm from Coach K when he retires, as that probably won't happen (hopefully) for another 6-10 years. (But you never know.)
But for a couple years now, I have often thought about who will eventually be looked to to take over the program, really hoping that Duke makes a good, informed decision.
I have never been a strong believer in the notion of "keeping it in the family," although I like the idea. However, I feel that when the time comes, Duke will need to go after those candidates who have a proven track record and seem a good fit for the program and the University.
The only reason I bring this up now is because the yesterday's game. For two or three years now, I have been looking at Jay Wright as a coach that I could see with the Duke program. Of course, he can write his own ticket at Villanova for the foreseeable future and may never want to leave. Nevertheless, he seems to posses the kind of class, recruiting ability, and his players play similar style of ball to what K teaches. I think the mutual respect is obvious.
As much as I like Johnny D and Chris Collins and appreciate their loyalty, if I had to chose right now for somebody to take over the program that K has built over the last 25 years, Jay Wright would be my very first target.

Like I said before, K aint going anywhere soon - but the game the other night really makes me hope that when he does decide to step down that Jay Wright might be interested and Duke might target him.

Cameron
03-27-2009, 10:30 PM
Paul Westhead. He plays our style, only shoots more threes and only threes.

In all seriousness, Jay Wright would be a great addition to Duke University if/when Coach K leaves. (I'm still not sure Coach isn't some sort of indestructible machine man, kinda like that Bicentennial guy in the movies, so they may be having this discussion in 300 years.) Not only does he like to play the same style as us, by pushing the tempo when permitted with athletic wings and shooting threes, but Wright's also all class and has won and won big at Nova. He's likely heading to a Final Four this season.

Another option will be Johnny Dawkins, obviously, provided that he proves to be a success at a major program like Stanford.

As you said, though, this is still way too early to be discussing. Right now, it's impossible to say.

DukeCO2009
03-27-2009, 10:34 PM
I always get annoyed when people say "silly thread" or make like-minded comments, but this is honestly, well, a silly thread. K is our coach, and until he indicates that he's on some sort of timetable re: the rest of his career there's no sense in talking about his successor.

taiw93
03-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Why give it to a coach "outside of the family" when the best young coach in the country, IMO, played at Duke: Jeff Caple. The guy has done an excellent job at VCU and OU, and also happens to have played under K at Duke, where he was a four-year-starter and Academic AA. I think the job will either go to Caple (whom I personally would like to see hired) or Johhny Dawkins, either of whom would be a great hire. Jay Wright's a great coach, but we have too many good coaches "in the family" to make a hire outside of it.

miramar
03-27-2009, 11:26 PM
Well me, of course. I have no lack of opinions on Duke basketball, and I could certainly use the extra money.

eddiehaskell
03-27-2009, 11:38 PM
I'd like to see Capel or Dawkins.

mapei
03-27-2009, 11:49 PM
It's hard to argue with Capel or Dawkins if we stay "in the family," but personally I prefer clean breaks when the time eventually comes. Jay Wright is a terrific example of someone who would fit. Among other things, he and K are tied for having the highest graduation rate of the teams in this year's tournament.

Duvall
03-27-2009, 11:58 PM
Honestly, after reading the last 24 hours of posts on this board, I don't know who should get this job after Krzyzewski, but I definitely feel sorry for the poor S.O.B.

RelativeWays
03-28-2009, 12:11 AM
K is on record saying that he wants Duke to pick the best candidate for the job, whether he is "in the family" or not and K also hopes he has some involvement in the process.

AIRFORCEDUKIE
03-28-2009, 03:38 AM
I am confident that whoever it is they will be given a shot to succeed as there will most likely be a bit of a down period between K and the new coach. So lets all promise right now that when that day comes a long long time from now that we all give the guy a chance before we run him out of town. Do we want to look like Kentucky or N.C. State. I don't think so let this be a lesson to all of us going into the future.

Airforcedukie

VaDukie
03-28-2009, 03:44 AM
Top 5 for the job post-K.

1. Jeff Capel
2. Jeff Capel
3. Jeff Capel.
4. Johnny Dawkins
5. Jeff Capel

heyman25
03-28-2009, 05:36 AM
Top 5 for the job post-K.

1. Jeff Capel
2. Jeff Capel
3. Jeff Capel.
4. Johnny Dawkins
5. Jeff Capel

That is a good list. let's see how Jeff handles the heels. Jay Wright would be a great outsider.Villanova played the way you wish Duke did. 5 players all threats to score and dish,play great help defense.Noone afraid to shoot.

Not for Duke because of problems at Mizzou.But if I were an AD I would hire Quin Snyder. Coach of NBDL Austin Toros

dukie8
03-28-2009, 08:49 AM
Not only does he like to play the same style as us, by pushing the tempo when permitted with athletic wings and shooting threes, but Wright's also all class and has won and won big at Nova. He's likely heading to a Final Four this season.

What is this supposed to mean? You are aware that he has a grand total of 2 wins in the Sweet 16 and beyond for his career. That's not exactly "winning big" in my book.

Cameron
03-28-2009, 09:37 AM
What is this supposed to mean? You are aware that he has a grand total of 2 wins in the Sweet 16 and beyond for his career. That's not exactly "winning big" in my book.

Wright took over a once storied but fallen Philadelphia program, one that had been riddled by mediocrity and virtual nothingness under former coach Steve Lappas. It took Wright just three seasons to get Nova back into the Dance and into the national spotlight, and he hasn't left since.

Since 2005, Wright has led Nova to five straight NCAA appearances, including two Sweet 16 runs and two Elite Eight drives -- and were a call away from knocking off Carolina's "unstoppable" title team in the '05 regional semis -- won 125 games, and won a Big East title. This season, Wright has a great chance of reaching his first Final Four and then winning a national championship. Villanova is that good.

As we saw two nights ago, Wright is a tremendous big game tactician, especially in the NCAAs. He's savvy, experienced at a storied program in a big time conference, the best in the nation this year, and has a certain flair of greatness about him. I can't quite pinpoint it, but he's a perfect Duke guy, IMO.

I'd say he's more than ready. If you're trying to tell me that Duke's too good for Wright, then you're going to be severely disappointed once Coach K steps down, because we won't get anyone better than Wright. We might get someone just as good, but no one better, even if they are from Duke.

DUKIE V(A)
03-28-2009, 10:05 AM
I'm glad (it seems at least) that we don't need to make this decision for a long while. We are fortunate to have Coach K for as long as he will have us. He's THE BEST.

I agree with an earlier writer Duvall who expressed concern about the tone of the e-mails in the last 24 hours. We seem Kentuckyish. I would hate for our team and coaches to see how we are acting. Our expectations as fans have IMO become way out of whack. This team and coaching staff had a great season, and as disappointing as it is to lose the last game when we had such great hopes, I think we should be celebrating our accomplishments instead of picking our team and coaches apart for losing a game to a great team playing its best basketball. I am not saying we should avoid discussing how we can get better, but I wish this discussion would be more constructive and realistic.

MADevil30
03-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Wright also has NEVER been to a FF, nevermind won a NC. He might be a nice guy and players may like playing for him but his record, which is rather ordinary, speaks for itself. You are delusional if you think that a coach who literally has 2 career wins in the Sweet 16 and beyond is "the perfect Duke guy." To say claim that he has "great chance" of winning a NC this year, when he isn't even favored in his Regional Final, is nothing short of out-of-control hyperbole.

I think this argument is a little ridiculous. How often do you see a coach who has been to multiple final fours and won championships switch schools on his own terms? Roy is the only one that comes to mind, but that is a special situation since he was one of Dean's assistants, but there is no one in the "Duke family" that has anything near his kind of track record. If you want an example look at Billy Donovan at Florida. The guy coaches at a school that is and always will be a football school no matter how many championships he wins and the guy wont leave for anything; not for one of the most storied programs in NCAA history (Kentucky), not for the NBA. Honestly, it seems pretty rare that a guy who has had the kind of success Wright has had would leave without there being some serious dark clouds on the horizon.

Also, Coach K had a 73-59 record at ARMY with NO NCAA appearances. I understand that those were different times for Duke basketball, but how did that work out? To say that a coach can be judged solely based on his track record is, as you would say, out-of-control hyperbole.

mapei
03-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Wright is a lot younger than K and has had less opportunity to produce as many tourney wins. In the last 5 years, his tourney record is as good as ours. When the time comes - which, fortunately, won't be for a while, we'll get someone on the way up, not someone who is already there.

-jk
03-28-2009, 10:39 AM
Let's keep it polite, folks.

-jk

jipops
03-28-2009, 10:48 AM
Why is Jay Wright even being discussed here? What makes us think he would even want the job?

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-28-2009, 11:12 AM
What a topic of conversation! There's not even a hint of an opening for the job of Head Basketball Coach at Duke University.

dukie8
03-28-2009, 11:19 AM
I think this argument is a little ridiculous. How often do you see a coach who has been to multiple final fours and won championships switch schools on his own terms? Roy is the only one that comes to mind, but that is a special situation since he was one of Dean's assistants, but there is no one in the "Duke family" that has anything near his kind of track record. If you want an example look at Billy Donovan at Florida. The guy coaches at a school that is and always will be a football school no matter how many championships he wins and the guy wont leave for anything; not for one of the most storied programs in NCAA history (Kentucky), not for the NBA. Honestly, it seems pretty rare that a guy who has had the kind of success Wright has had would leave without there being some serious dark clouds on the horizon.

Also, Coach K had a 73-59 record at ARMY with NO NCAA appearances. I understand that those were different times for Duke basketball, but how did that work out? To say that a coach can be judged solely based on his track record is, as you would say, out-of-control hyperbole.

Multiple FFs and championships are a lot different than no FFs. I should hope that Duke, when the time comes, would be able to replace K with someone who has done more than a couple of Sweet 16 wins.

Job openings for the big 5 -- Duke, UCLA, Kansas, Kentucky and UNC -- don't occur very often but the ones that have opened up more recently indicate that it is easy to get it wrong when taking someone with a less than robust resume. Kentucky did with Gillispie. UNC did with Gut and Doherty. Kansas got it right with Self but he had taken Tulsa and Illinois to the Elite 8 in a short period of time (there also were grumblings until last year that he couldn't win the big game). Post Wooden, UCLA has been all over the place with the good, the bad and the ugly.

In any event, I can't see K stepping down until he gets Duke back to at least a FF. He is just too competitive and proud to retire with a long string of NCAAT flameouts. Guys like Wright, Dawkins and Capel will have plenty of time in the meantime to strengthen their resumes for the job. There also may be new guys who rise up over the next 5-10 years. 5 years ago Billy Donovan was just another college coach and now he is one of the hottest names for any big job opening.

I also don't think that you can compare Duke in the early 1980s to Duke today. Duke in the early 1980s was like St John's today -- a storied program that had been meddling for a long period of time. I should hope that more top people today would view the HC job at Duke to be a great job than 25 years ago.

davekay1971
03-28-2009, 11:33 AM
Coach K has not yet asked me to be his successor at Duke. However, if he does ask, I will have to regretfully decline.

FWIW, I heard that Coach K was looking to have Dick Vitale replace him on the sideline, with Digger Phelps as his lead assistant. That's very much inside information, so keep it on the DL...

dukeimac
03-28-2009, 11:56 AM
Who? I'm not sure but if they want to keep it in the family (alla UNC) there isn't a name out there to be serious about. The good thing is it should be a long time off and people will have time to prove themselves.

Jeff Capel: is doing a great job this year but with someone elses recruits. The question is can he recruit and coach teams to the final 4 after this year. Both Griffins are not his recruits (Blake committed because his brother was already there and before Capel was announced as the coach).

Johny Dawkins: did a nice job this year but again lets see if he can recruit.

Mike Brey: started good at ND but things are going down hill. He had a good team last year but something happened this year and we need to see if he can turn things around.

Just some examples but no one from the family has proven themselves, yet. The problem is when K is gone will Duke become the next Kentucky. I don't see people being very patient with a coach that doesn't make it to the sweet sixteen in their first three years. I'll be curious to see if K will leave the cupboard full which will bear people saying the success comes from K's recruits.

I think to actually see what could happen we should all watch Kansas over the next few years. Self took over a program that was in very good shape and since Roy didn't want to take his recruits with him Kansas was sitting good and he was able to build on those recruits. Now he did a good job this year but if Aldrige and Collins are gone after this year he won't have much of a team to go deep into the tourney next year and his class for next year isn't that great. We could be seeing the beginning of the end for him unless he can go out and hirer a dad of a top recruit (did he really do that? LOL).

I use Self as an example of how good a coach can look in the first few years but it is the long hall that counts. And anyone that wants to anoint Jeff Capel after just 2 years at Oklahoma is a risk taker and I have a bridge to sell them. I do hope he goes all the way this year but I'm not sure he'll get anywheres this close within the next 10 years.

Also, don't even mention a coach that is coaching in their home town. Jay Wright is a Nova grown man and he won't leave Nova unless he gets huge dollars and that ain't there at Duke, maybe Kentucky will pay $4 or $5 million but Duke won't, probably can't.

Also, for there to be big shoes to fill coach K will need to start getting back to the final 4's again. If the next 4 years are like the last 3 I'm not sure any top coach will be interested in Duke.

Cameron
03-28-2009, 12:25 PM
Also, for there to be big shoes to fill coach K will need to start getting back to the final 4's again. If the next 4 years are like the last 3 I'm not sure any top coach will be interested in Duke.

Exactly. To use a line from Rick Pitino, when Coach K leaves, Bill Self isn't walking through Cameron's doors. Billy Donovan isn't walking through that door. Tom Izzo isn't walking through that door.

We will have an up and comer, as another poster stated.

Duvall
03-28-2009, 01:44 PM
Who? I'm not sure but if they want to keep it in the family (alla UNC) there isn't a name out there to be serious about. The good thing is it should be a long time off and people will have time to prove themselves.

Jeff Capel: is doing a great job this year but with someone elses recruits. The question is can he recruit and coach teams to the final 4 after this year. Both Griffins are not his recruits (Blake committed because his brother was already there and before Capel was announced as the coach).

That's not actually true (http://msn.foxsports.com/cbk/story/9322592/Jeff-Capel-turned-things-around-at-Oklahoma,-with-Blake-Griffin-?CMP=OTC-K9B140813162&ATT=99), Griffin committed several months after Capel started in Norman. And Capel recruited Willie Warren and a solid incoming class without any sibling assistance.

dukie8
03-28-2009, 03:55 PM
Jeff Capel: is doing a great job this year but with someone elses recruits. The question is can he recruit and coach teams to the final 4 after this year. Both Griffins are not his recruits (Blake committed because his brother was already there and before Capel was announced as the coach).

I use Self as an example of how good a coach can look in the first few years but it is the long hall that counts. And anyone that wants to anoint Jeff Capel after just 2 years at Oklahoma is a risk taker and I have a bridge to sell them. I do hope he goes all the way this year but I'm not sure he'll get anywheres this close within the next 10 years.

Why are you so quick to write off the next 10 years for Capel? It's not like he is pulling a Steve Fisher or Barry Switzer this year. This is his 3rd year at Oklahoma and his records have been 16-15, 21-10 and 30-5. That improvement is all his. Also, how was he not involved in the recruiting of Griffin? Capel arrived in 2006 and Griffin graduated high school in 2007. I don't know the specifics of how Griffin was recruited but given that Griffin was starting his junior year of high school when Capel arrived, I have a very hard time believing that he had nothing to do with Griffin ultimately deciding to attend Oklahoma.

Why are you questioning his recruiting in general? The class that he is bringing in next year is ranked 8th (Duke's is 5th) and Warren was ranked #13 last year. He also found Maynor at VCU. That doesn't sound like someone who is challenged in the recruiting department.

Capel may be young and still improving as a coach but calling anyone who recognizes Capel as one of the very best up-and-coming coaches a "risk-taker" is way off base.

dukeimac
03-28-2009, 06:34 PM
The reason why I don't think Capel will do well is just looking at the facts.

First, Blakes older brother recruited him to Oklahoma. That is a fact, it has been a story line throughout the year (if you follow any Big 12). Matter of fact, Blake almost left for the pros last year until his brother bagged him to come back for the older ones senior year. When they interviewed Blake after the game this year with Texas Tech when they went 11-0 in conference Blake stated his bother wanted him to come to Oklahoma so he did and his brother wanted him to stay for his senior year because they would be good and that he had no regrets doing it for him.

Secondly, outside Blake and Taylor the only other guy that actual scores is a senior guard in Austin Johnson. He has one recruit in the top 35 for next year and that guys stock is falling. He had another guy that was rated earlier in the year in the top 50 but currently is out of the top 50.

Thus, with his current team and next years class things look slim so if he doesn't recruit well the next year things will slip for him. Being a Duke player I hope him well it just doesn't point to him doing well in the future. I might be wrong but usually good recruiting classes point to possibilities.

My question would be does one good year make him a great coach? See Weber at Illinois.

Give me some proven facts and I might change my mind but because he is a Duke guy doesn't make me think he will automatically be great. I have Oklahoma going to the final four.

Buckeye Devil
03-29-2009, 10:16 AM
I don't know if he is the best choice for Duke's coach in the distant future but what his team did at the end of the Pitt game with no timeouts left and a little over 5 ticks on the clock was impressive. I will root for the Wildcats if they end up against the "holes next week.

Maxwell1977
03-29-2009, 10:21 AM
I don't know if he is the best choice for Duke's coach in the distant future but what his team did at the end of the Pitt game with no timeouts left and a little over 5 ticks on the clock was impressive. I will root for the Wildcats if they end up against the "holes next week.

Really!?! They almost screwed the pooch and let Pitt back in it.

davekay1971
03-29-2009, 10:30 AM
My question would be does one good year make him a great coach? See Weber at Illinois.


Capel was successful at VCU (79 wins and a .658 winning percentage, best of any school in Virginia during those 4 years).

Capel inherited an ungodly mess at Oklahoma and has them playing for the final four. He has improved their record each year (16-15, 21-10, and then, of course, this year's breakout 30-5). You can dismiss his success as Blake Griffin being recruited by his brother, but a coach still has to do well with the talent he has (see Dino Gaudio).

Capel can coach a team to success - he's been a head coach for only 7, but he's done well at both programs he's helmed. Most coaches would love to have the career start that Jeff has had.

Buckeye Devil
03-29-2009, 11:21 AM
Really!?! They almost screwed the pooch and let Pitt back in it.

Pitt was ever out of it?

dukeimac
03-29-2009, 01:33 PM
I agree Capel did well at VCU but that was a mid-major not the likes of Duke or Oklahoma. Again, look at Weber at Illinois. He had one year of a good in-state recruit and since then he has been unable to recruit.

Inform me, tell me a mid-major coach within the last 15 years who has moved up to a major conference that has coached for 6+ years and has their team in the sweet 16 (at least) for the last 2 years. If there is any it is someone who has coached far more than 6 or 7 years.

Bill self comes to mind. He started coaching at ORU in 1993 and then he went to Tulsa and then to Illinois before going to Kansas. Quiet a bit of history there before he won his title.

All I'm saying is don't put Capel on a high pedestal just yet. It makes it too easy to fall and that fall is hard.

I read this stuff and think back about 5 months ago when people had Olek Czyz making a big contribution to the team this year. How they saw the youtube video's and thought he was a high flyer that was going to make a contribution to this team this year, some thought a huge contribution. Others had Plumlee starting. He might have started a game or 2 but he played in only 24 of the 37 games and only took 38 shots and grabbed 34 rebounds. Not close to the contributions people had them making.

Thus, I hope Capel beats UNC today (actually would like anyone to beat them but it would be sweeter being Capel) but I won't put him on the pedestal of the next coming of a great coach just yet. For him to get there it will be a test of time, and that time being years.

Also, Dino had a talented team this year but how many seniors (or juniors) did he have to lead that team, Capel has 2 (Taylor and Austin)? You are right you have to be able to coach them but when you have mature talent it is much easier to coach then when you have young talent.

Franzez
03-29-2009, 08:21 PM
Nate James.

I'm not sure if anyone has noticed but the players take to him very well and he looks to be an impact assistant that is now learning under Coach K.

He might get a chance to prove himself elsewhere 1st but I think when the time comes he should get the job over both Dawkins & Capel who have branched off and are building/rebuilding programs they can put their signature on.

I'm sure thats what Coach K wants from his assistants who get HC offers to go elsewhere and build a program where they can become the "Coach K" of that program.

CDu
03-29-2009, 08:23 PM
Pitt was ever out of it?

They were out of it with 20 seconds left down by 4. Bad coaching got the game tied 15 seconds later (bad inbounds play, should have told them to use the timeout if need be). Pitt shouldn't have had a chance to tie like that.

That said, I don't think one miscue is reason to discount Wright's coaching abilities. It's not like Coach K hasn't made a mistake or two over the years.

SupaDave
03-29-2009, 10:05 PM
This thread has gone from Wright to Capel. Seems to me that you guys are leaving out quite a few viable candidates including Amaker and Mike Brey.

Recruiting should be an afterthought at this moment. Whoever, the successor is - I think he'll have a lot of advantages...

KrazyKfan
03-29-2009, 10:13 PM
This really isn't even a discussion.

Johnny Dawkins, no question, pending he refuses the job, which he won't.

When Dawkins left, K said Dawkins would return in 10 years for the head coaching job at Duke. Dawkins refused to discuss that quote, which basically means he didn't want to jeopardize his new job.

Jeffrey
03-30-2009, 12:41 PM
This really isn't even a discussion.

Johnny Dawkins, no question, pending he refuses the job, which he won't.

When Dawkins left, K said Dawkins would return in 10 years for the head coaching job at Duke. Dawkins refused to discuss that quote, which basically means he didn't want to jeopardize his new job.

Johnny would not jeopardize his new job by stating such. During the press conference announcing Johnny, the Stanford AD said that (per Coach K) Johnny would one day return to Duke to be our head coach.

IMO, it's not a done deal. Quinn and Tommy showed that sometimes things don't work out elsewhere as well as we hope. I think Wojo is sitting in a very good position if he stays, waits, and continues to impress. I suspect Chris (with help from Dad) will be gone before K retires.

TriGuy
03-30-2009, 07:10 PM
This really isn't even a discussion.

Johnny Dawkins, no question, pending he refuses the job, which he won't.

When Dawkins left, K said Dawkins would return in 10 years for the head coaching job at Duke. Dawkins refused to discuss that quote, which basically means he didn't want to jeopardize his new job.

So much for K staying out of discussing the selection of his successor . . .

The basketball program at UNC had (for them) a happy ending (after caretaking by Guth and crashing & burning under D'Oh), but other than that I can't immediately recall a program that thrived by insisting on staying in the coaching family. Bucky Waters after Bubas at Duke? The Meyers at DePaul? Anyone who every played or coached under Wooden at UCLA?

C'mon folks, I know you've read Darwin and remember what inbreeding does to a species . . .

Duvall
03-30-2009, 07:13 PM
So much for K staying out of discussing the selection of his successor . . .

The basketball program at UNC had (for them) a happy ending (after caretaking by Guth and crashing & burning under D'Oh), but other than that I can't immediately recall a program that thrived by insisting on staying in the coaching family. Bucky Waters after Bubas at Duke? The Meyers at DePaul? Anyone who every played or coached under Wooden at UCLA?


It seems to have worked out okay for Michigan State and Villanova.

Atlanta Duke
03-30-2009, 08:03 PM
So much for K staying out of discussing the selection of his successor . . .

The basketball program at UNC had (for them) a happy ending (after caretaking by Guth and crashing & burning under D'Oh), but other than that I can't immediately recall a program that thrived by insisting on staying in the coaching family. Bucky Waters after Bubas at Duke? The Meyers at DePaul? Anyone who every played or coached under Wooden at UCLA?

C'mon folks, I know you've read Darwin and remember what inbreeding does to a species . . .

Have to agree - luck is always a factor but the model for hiring coaches in any sport is the Steelers with three hires in 40 years - hire someone young (Noll, Cowher, and Tomlin were all in their 30s when hired), be patient during the inevitable off years, and go outside the retiring coach's family tree to break from the past when you do hire - unless a former assistant has been very successful and established his own legacy after leaving the base (such as Roy) hiring a former assistant just to maintain continuity probably would be a disaster.

Something to think about in 2015 or so

Aziggazoomba
03-31-2009, 11:37 AM
As a Tar Heel who has a really good impression of Capel, I wonder generally about his reputation amongst Dukies.

In this thread there seems to be a good bit of lukewarmness (which I get to some extent, given the context of the question and folks understandably have questions as to his coaching prospects).

But I also have the impression that he has never been an especially beloved member of the Duke family. Not that he is disliked or anything---just that folks could sort of take him or leave him.

Is that impression accurate at all? (I may be way off base here, not being well-schooled in Duke-dom generally.)

Just curious.

Thx.

Duvall
03-31-2009, 12:13 PM
As a Tar Heel who has a really good impression of Capel, I wonder generally about his reputation amongst Dukies.

In this thread there seems to be a good bit of lukewarmness (which I get to some extent, given the context of the question and folks understandably have questions as to his coaching prospects).

But I also have the impression that he has never been an especially beloved member of the Duke family. Not that he is disliked or anything---just that folks could sort of take him or leave him.

Is that impression accurate at all?

It is not.

Do not overestimate the probative value of the comments of one poster on one thread on one message board.

Aziggazoomba
03-31-2009, 02:18 PM
It is not.

Do not overestimate the probative value of the comments of one poster on one thread on one message board.

Wasn't really looking for a lecture on logic or evaluating evidentiary weight, but thanks all the same.

Farlan
03-31-2009, 02:42 PM
As a Tar Heel who has a really good impression of Capel, I wonder generally about his reputation amongst Dukies.

In this thread there seems to be a good bit of lukewarmness (which I get to some extent, given the context of the question and folks understandably have questions as to his coaching prospects).

But I also have the impression that he has never been an especially beloved member of the Duke family. Not that he is disliked or anything---just that folks could sort of take him or leave him.

Is that impression accurate at all? (I may be way off base here, not being well-schooled in Duke-dom generally.)

Just curious.

Thx.

As a life-long Duke fan (going back to the Tate Armstrong years), I can tell you that Jeff Capel is one of my all-time favorite basketball players! With the success he has had a head coach, I can't imagine that Jeff won't be in the mix once it is time to figure out who will be K's successor.

Atldukie79
03-31-2009, 02:44 PM
Jeff Capel often frustrated fans during his career as he seemed at times to backslide in his progress. But I never got a sense that fans disliked him. He certainly never seemed to act in a way that disappointed (say...Newton).
I believe that Capel is ultimately well liked by Duke fans. Perhaps the biggest frustration was that whileJeff played, UNC owned us....I think he played in one Duke victory over the Heels.

Regarding Capel's credentials, his stack up favorably to a young Coach K who was at Army in 1980.

Guessing who is in line to be K's successor is not new. At times over his tenure, I think the following names have topped the list at one time or another:
Bender
Brey
Snyder
Amaker
Dawkins
Capel

...maybe others.

While fun to do, it is somewhat pointless until necessary as things change ...kind of like ...well, figuring our Fidel Castro's replacement. It seems more and more imminent as time passes, but it never quite happens...(save your key strokes...no comparing K to Castro!!!)

Chitowndevil
03-31-2009, 02:52 PM
Is there anyone on these boards with knowledge of the K/Capel relationship? I was watching this weekend's game with a mixed crowd and some random person was claiming K and Capel don't speak. That is not the case to my knowledge; I seem to remember Capel saying in an interview a year or so ago that he and K correspond. Other than the booing incident in Cameron, which I was present for (it was extremely brief, was immediately drowned out by cheers, and I'd bet a good amount that whoever started it got their butt kicked after the game), there's no reason he wouldn't have a great relationship with Duke in general. And while I thought it odd he didn't spend any time as a Duke assistant, maybe he didn't need to because of his Dad's coaching contacts.

Anyway despite telling said random person he was full of crap, I'm still curious about K and Capel. I'm pretty sure K will have a lot of influence in naming his replacement, and am wondering if he'd back Capel over Mike Brey, etc.

Aziggazoomba
03-31-2009, 05:44 PM
Jeff Capel often frustrated fans during his career as he seemed at times to backslide in his progress.

I had that sense (and thought I had also recalled something of a booing incident---though I understand the booing is subject to great overemphasis and should not be much considered).

I agree that views of him could be a function of the team's success during that period (especially relative to UNC). And it may be that anyone associated with the '95 team might suffer something of an image problem.

By way of analogy, I don't think any player on any team from the Doherty era is going to make very many "Top 10 Favorite Tar Heel" lists.

Anyway, I think he's a great guy and I hope he has a top-notch coaching career wherever he winds up (unless that's at Duke, in which case I hope he fails miserably).

TriGuy
03-31-2009, 06:28 PM
----- <snip> ------
Guessing who is in line to be K's successor is not new. At times over his tenure, I think the following names have topped the list at one time or another:
Bender
Brey
Snyder
Amaker
Dawkins
Capel

...maybe others.

While fun to do, it is somewhat pointless until necessary as things change ...kind of like ...well, figuring our Fidel Castro's replacement. It seems more and more imminent as time passes, but it never quite happens...(save your key strokes...no comparing K to Castro!!!)

So you're saying K has a younger brother who can step in? I would have much preferred seeing that happen over watching Pete
Gaud-Awful during our "lost season". . . .

I agree with the fluidity of the front-runner mantle in the Coach K successor sweepstakes. For a while, it looked like Tommy Amaker only had to put his feet up and wait for K to retire . . . we see how THAT worked out . . . though Tommy might be a good asst coach for Ks replacement (like that would ever happen).

Really, at this point, I don't care WHO is the heir-apparent.

As long as it's not Wojo.

Chitowndevil
03-31-2009, 06:32 PM
Really, at this point, I don't care WHO is the heir-apparent.

As long as it's not Wojo.

But wait a sec, if K retired, and Duke promoted Wojo to head coach, then we could get another big man coach. And that would solve all of our problems, right? :)

(sorry, couldn't resist)

IBleedBlue
08-03-2010, 09:21 AM
I believe it will come down to "Youth vs Experience".
Coach Capel and Nate James have shown that they are likable in the recruiting circuit. Getting good / solid recruits is certainly the most important first step to build or keep an elite program at a an elite level. Coach Dawkins certainly has numerous years of learning under his belt from Coach K. But the Jury is still out on him.

I believe any combination of Coach Dawkins or Coach Capel with Nate James as one of the associate head coaches will be able to keep our program at an elite level for years to come unless the Maestro has another trick up his sleeve.

77devil
08-03-2010, 09:26 AM
In the months that I've been reading these boards, I have not seen any discussion on this topic - apologies if this is rehashing a long-ago-resolved issue.

Who do you think will take over after Coach K retires (hopefully not for a while)? Does it have to be someone with Duke ties?

How will Duke handle the transition to avoid falling into something like the Doh-ridge era? Is it even possible for there to be a smooth transition from Coach K to someone else?

About 10 years ago, I thought the best possible successors would be Quin Snyder or Tommy Amaker. More recently, people seem to have assumed that Johnny D is the heir apparent. In the family, I suppose anyone on the staff has to be a candidate. I think Jeff Capel would be the most intriguing hire if it has to be someone with Duke ties.

I used to feel strongly that we should keep a successor in the family, but now I think that would be foolish (and may have been one thing that Carolina got wrong). I mean, would anyone be disappointed if we were able to convince a Brad Stevens or someone of that ilk (without Duke ties) to take over?

And how the transition happens is just as important as who we transition to.

Thoughts?

It seems that a thread involving life after K pops up every off season. I submit that it is way too premature to speculate. Coach has said on numerous occasions that he has no plans to retire anytime soon, and much change will occur between now and then in college basketball and at Duke that could affect the outcome.


If I remember correctly, Coach K said that when he plans to retire, he is GOING to retire. No involvement with Duke athletics one way or another. He also said that he doesn't think he'll get involved with selecting the next coach (I find that hard to believe). But I do think he'll step away and enjoy retirement.

Another interesting question - where will Coach retire? Durham? Chicago? Indiana? Sunny, ole Florida? Dean is still based in Chapel Hill, right?

Coach K isn't going anywhere. He has a lifetime contract with University and will be active at Fuqua and other aspects of the University, and the Emily K. Center in Durham at the very least.

Wander
08-03-2010, 01:49 PM
I think limiting the search to just Duke guys would be an absolutely terrible move. There's not a single one right now who's worthy of the job. Capel and Dawkins may get there - and we'll know if they are by the time the question becomes relevant - but they haven't come close to proving it yet.

If Coach K retired tomorrow, my personal top choice would be Bruce Pearl.

Duvall
08-03-2010, 01:53 PM
If Coach K retired tomorrow, my personal top choice would be Bruce Pearl.

Out of all of college basketball, you would pick Bruce Pearl? Why?

tech9127
08-03-2010, 01:59 PM
I think limiting the search to just Duke guys would be an absolutely terrible move. There's not a single one right now who's worthy of the job. Capel and Dawkins may get there - and we'll know if they are by the time the question becomes relevant - but they haven't come close to proving it yet.

If Coach K retired tomorrow, my personal top choice would be Bruce Pearl.

I agree with everything except your last statement. I think the coaching fraternity needs to be evaluated at the time of K's leaving, but if he were leaving in the immediate future, I'd pick Brad Stevens. Cool under fire, and basketball smart!

DevilWolf
08-03-2010, 02:20 PM
First of all, the extended Krzyzewski family is pretty deeply rooted in Durham. I'd have a hard time believing that any of them would permanently move away.

Second of all to answer the initial question, K's replacement hasn't been born yet.

hq2
08-03-2010, 03:39 PM
I wouldn't hold my breath on it. The hip stuff notwithstanding, K's in fine health for someone his age. I'd say he coaches till he's at least 70. That way he can put the win total up there so far noone will ever catch it (except maybe Brad Stevens!)

LSanders
08-03-2010, 07:20 PM
I've wondered about Jay Wright for some time as well. He seems like a fierce competitor but also a class act.

Life after Dean (once ol' Roy took over) was pretty much like life with Dean. Life after K will be very different. He's truly one of a kind. If you think of coaches as chess players, most think a few moves ahead. The grand masters, however, see/think 10-15 moves ahead. That's K.

He recognized early that real leadership is more valuable than X's and O's in building a program. So, he began studying leadership and great leaders long, long ago. He thinks differently. He recruits differently. He manages his team differently than most coaches. And, it's instinctive for him. How do you teach instinct?

In thinking about contenders from the Duke coaching tree, I've really wondered about Greg Paulus. He's always seemed like the most instinctive leader ... At least from an outsider's perspective. It will be interesting to watch his arc progress as a coach. He also seems to have an energy and enthusiasm that I would think would translate well in recruiting.

Until then ... I'm just enjoying the magical ride we're on and hope it lasts for many more years!!!!!!

Edouble
08-04-2010, 01:48 AM
In thinking about contenders from the Duke coaching tree, I've really wondered about Greg Paulus. He's always seemed like the most instinctive leader ... At least from an outsider's perspective. It will be interesting to watch his arc progress as a coach. He also seems to have an energy and enthusiasm that I would think would translate well in recruiting.


I'm sorry, but you think Greg Paulus seems like the most instinctive leader? Did you watch Shane Battier play basketball at Duke?

SeattleIrish
08-04-2010, 02:11 AM
As I read it, LSander's post was referring to former players who are now coaching. Shane, obviously, wouldn't be yet included in that pool. I think Shane will go into politics over coaching, but that's really just a hunch.

s.i.


I'm sorry, but you think Greg Paulus seems like the most instinctive leader? Did you watch Shane Battier play basketball at Duke?

gumbomoop
08-04-2010, 08:50 AM
The grand masters, however, see/think 10-15 moves ahead. That's K.

He recognized early that real leadership is more valuable than X's and O's in building a program. So, he began studying leadership and great leaders long, long ago. He thinks differently. He recruits differently. He manages his team differently than most coaches. And, it's instinctive for him. How do you teach instinct?

I'm just enjoying the magical ride we're on and hope it lasts for many more years!!!!!!

Agree with these very important points, especially how different K is/does/thinks/plans and especially, especially intuits. "Unique" is an oft-used and oft-misused word, but in the coaching ranks, K is pretty close. I have enthusiastically expressed [another thread] admiration for Dean Smith's inventive-adaptive creative X/O and game strategy genius. K's genius includes a lot of that, but is something else, too, perhaps a higher but surely a different level.

Thinking about that iconic photo of the Olympic team and all those gold medals around K's neck: maybe it was just the obvious and nothing more, a sweet celebration of triumph. It was, yes, a sweet moment, yet something more, too, a powerful moment. I'd guess - as would many of you - that K's guys were making a rather larger statement of tribute to K's genius, leadership, and depth. I'd guess they were stunned at how much they had been affected by K's inspiration.

I'd prefer - and playing off LSanders' good observations I am trying - to hijack this thread, far away from who'll replace K, and back toward why he's so different.

DevilDan
08-05-2010, 01:05 AM
Agree with these very important points, especially how different K is/does/thinks/plans and especially, especially intuits. "Unique" is an oft-used and oft-misused word, but in the coaching ranks, K is pretty close. I have enthusiastically expressed [another thread] admiration for Dean Smith's inventive-adaptive creative X/O and game strategy genius. K's genius includes a lot of that, but is something else, too, perhaps a higher but surely a different level.

I'd prefer - and playing off LSanders' good observations I am trying - to hijack this thread, far away from who'll replace K, and back toward why he's so different.

"Thinking about that iconic photo of the Olympic team and all those gold medals around K's neck: maybe it was just the obvious and nothing more, a sweet celebration of triumph. It was, yes, a sweet moment, yet something more, too, a powerful moment. I'd guess - as would many of you - that K's guys were making a rather larger statement of tribute to K's genius, leadership, and depth. I'd guess they were stunned at how much they had been affected by K's inspiration."



Both Kobe Bryant and Dwayne Wade made comments right after the Olympic tournament about their relationship with Coach K. Kobe remarked that looking back, he wish he had come to Duke and played under Coach K -- that he would be a much more versatile player by now. Wade, when asked in an interview in the early part of the NBA season, to account for his dynamic play, offered that he was "still on a high from the Olympics" and playing for Coach K, who had made the game more fun for him, than ever.

Any question that WE'VE got THE GUY ???

bluedevil2012
08-05-2010, 03:22 AM
John Calipari ;)

coot
08-05-2010, 03:45 PM
John Calipari ;)

John Calipari....LOL, by the time Coach K finishes up, Calipari will be in the NBA and Kentucky will be on probation. Unfortunately, they'll probably have a couple of championships that should have been someone elses.

billy
03-02-2016, 06:15 PM
John Feinstein was just on 99.9 the Fan with Adam and Joe (in the triangle) to promote his new book about Coach K, Dean Smith, and Jimmy V. Adam asked him who he thought would succeed Coach K. He stated that, in his opinion and without a doubt, Jeff Capel would for several reasons. He said Coach K feels that it's very important that someone very familiar with the culture at Duke be the next coach. He thought it was important that the next head coach be African-American. Feinstein was also certain that Coach K wants to, and would be allowed to, name his successor. He also said that he has no idea when Ciach K might retire.

Dev11
03-02-2016, 06:20 PM
John Feinstein was just on 99.9 the Fan with Adam and Joe (in the triangle) to promote his new book about Coach K, Dean Smith, and Jimmy V. Adam asked him who he thought would succeed Coach K. He stated that, in his opinion and without a doubt, Jeff Capel would for several reasons. He said Coach K feels that it's very important that someone very familiar with the culture at Duke be the next coach. He thought it was important that the next head coach be African-American. Feinstein was also certain that Coach K wants to, and would be allowed to, name his successor. He also said that he has no idea when Ciach K might retire.

John Feinstein believed his own opinion without a doubt? That's some breaking news right there.

I feel like even if Coach K has picked a successor, he's not sharing that information with John Feinstein. Duke has done fine with a white coach for 36 years.

Devilwin
03-02-2016, 06:31 PM
Jeff Capel. After all, he is undefeated at the helm this year..lol:cool:

slower
03-02-2016, 07:00 PM
Jeff Capel. After all, he is undefeated at the helm this year..lol:cool:

Capel seems like a good and logical successor.

blynch923
03-02-2016, 07:05 PM
Back in the mid 2000s when Johnny was still on the staff I thought he would possibly take over. But it is obvious that Jeff is the clear favorite.

Old man
03-02-2016, 08:14 PM
If White is the ad, which is likely, he will pick the next coach. K will not, nor does he wish to. Feinstein is speculating and apparently does not know White. Capel will certainly be a strong candidate.

kAzE
03-02-2016, 08:27 PM
I wonder if Shaka Smart is in the mix at all. He seems to have the coaching chops, although his recruiting credentials are still to be determined. Coach Capel should rightfully be at the top of the list, but through due diligence, the list has got to include a few coaches outside the Duke family.

OldPhiKap
03-02-2016, 08:32 PM
I would be more than fine with Jeff.

Or Cut.

53n206
03-02-2016, 08:55 PM
Seems that if Capel does not take another job after this season he will be an odds on favorite.

dukejim1
03-02-2016, 09:41 PM
Seems that if Capel does not take another job after this season he will be an odds on favorite.

I don't follow your assumption

BluDvlsN1
03-02-2016, 09:45 PM
John Feinstein was just on 99.9 the Fan with Adam and Joe (in the triangle) to promote his new book about Coach K, Dean Smith, and Jimmy V. Adam asked him who he thought would succeed Coach K. He stated that, in his opinion and without a doubt, Jeff Capel would for several reasons. He said Coach K feels that it's very important that someone very familiar with the culture at Duke be the next coach. He thought it was important that the next head coach be African-American. Feinstein was also certain that Coach K wants to, and would be allowed to, name his successor. He also said that he has no idea when Ciach K might retire.

Fair thought and reasonable.
Assuming that criteria,and adding success at an
institution with high academic standards,
I would think that Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker
would be in the discussion.

duke09hms
03-03-2016, 01:09 AM
Fair thought and reasonable.
Assuming that criteria,and adding success at an
institution with high academic standards,
I would think that Johnny Dawkins and Tommy Amaker
would be in the discussion.

Tommy Amaker, yes and Duke Med would also be a good fit for his wife who practices at Harvard Med.

Johnny Dawkins has proven he's not up to snuff at Stanford. His seat is getting incredibly hot now. 8 years, 1 tournament appearance, and above .500 in the conference twice.

Would hope and expect Dr. White to consider outside candidates as well as within the Duke family. Due diligence.

weezie
03-03-2016, 09:36 AM
I guess that puts the kibosh on my plan to bring in Dan Marjerle from his Grand Canyon U. success. Looked like a brilliant opportunity to win the arms/gorgeous race against the hoos and their fairly good looking Coach Bennett.

Marjerle is proving to be a good coach, working with normal talent and he's a pal of Colangelo. Hhhhmmm

http://www.foxsports.com/college-basketball/story/dan-majerle-leads-grand-canyon-to-startling-success-021816

WVDUKEFAN
03-03-2016, 09:41 AM
I think Bobby Hurley has to be mentioned. He has done pretty well at ASU and wasn't too shabby at Buffalo. He is my favorite Duke PG of all time.

Billy Dat
03-03-2016, 10:09 AM
-Took 2 teams to the NCAA tournament
-Took a major D1 team to the Elite 8
-Considered the #1 recruiter in the land
-Due to a sketchy exit from his last job, would kill to jump into the best job in America, a level of job said sketchy exit would bar him from at most other elite programs
-He's from the tree
-He is undefeated as the Duke head coach
-It would allow K to stay involved without any awkwardness

Ca-pel, Ca-pel, Ca-pel!

CarmenWallaceWade
03-03-2016, 11:00 AM
Here is the full interview with Feinstein. It's worth a listen if nothing else than for entertainment purposes. He apparently had great access to K, Smith, and Jimmy V. Based on that, his book sounds like it could be a really good read.

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/college_basketball/audio/15463682/

If you want to hear his comments on who he feels the next coach at Duke will be, listen to the last 3 minutes. As for looking for someone outside of the family, he addresses that with a paraphrased quote from a conversation he had with K.

53n206
03-03-2016, 12:48 PM
I don't follow your assumption

So much attention on Capel this year, building on the past few years. He should have opportunities for the best openings next year. If he has an opportunity to get a prime job anywhere else and does not take it I believe he has some assurance that the Duke job will be his.

Bob Green
03-03-2016, 02:23 PM
A reminder:


Rumor mongering. We're not a tabloid and we're not going to be a party to propagating rumors. If you can't find a legitimate, mainstream media outlet with the information, it's likely a rumor. Don't post it. Asking about it, stating that it's a rumor, or linking to another message board's post is still rumor mongering.

Steven43
03-03-2016, 02:27 PM
I feel like even if Coach K has picked a successor, he's not sharing that information with John Feinstein. Duke has done fine with a white coach for 36 years.
Bingo. Smart post.

Dukehky
03-03-2016, 02:59 PM
A reminder:

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=205365068

Just some evidence suggesting that Dr. White has preferences and reasons for those preferences that I can't believe wouldn't extend to men's basketball when the opportunity arises if Coach supports that decision.

Duke79UNLV77
03-03-2016, 03:03 PM
John Feinstein was just on 99.9 the Fan with Adam and Joe (in the triangle) to promote his new book about Coach K, Dean Smith, and Jimmy V. Adam asked him who he thought would succeed Coach K. He stated that, in his opinion and without a doubt, Jeff Capel would for several reasons. He said Coach K feels that it's very important that someone very familiar with the culture at Duke be the next coach. He thought it was important that the next head coach be African-American. Feinstein was also certain that Coach K wants to, and would be allowed to, name his successor. He also said that he has no idea when Ciach K might retire.

The when can impact the who. Given my assumption that K will coach another 30 years at least, will Capel have moved on by then? Seriously, though, it can be a moving target. I do think we have several good possibilities, but between now and whenever they could ascend, descend, be establish their own program, or not want to follow a legend.

kAzE
03-03-2016, 03:07 PM
The when can impact the who. Given my assumption that K will coach another 30 years at least, will Capel have moved on by then? Seriously, though, it can be a moving target. I do think we have several good possibilities, but between now and whenever they could ascend, descend, be establish their own program, or not want to follow a legend.

So, he's going until at LEAST age 99? What a beast.

flyingdutchdevil
03-03-2016, 03:10 PM
So, he's going until at LEAST age 99? What a beast.

Don't worry - His hair will still be jet black

superdave
03-03-2016, 03:59 PM
I think process is important, particularly going through a formal hiring process. I would pursue the top prospects - Stevens, Smart and Capel among them. Going through a formal process gives you the opportunity learn a lot about who is available, who is interested and why, where salaries are and what you like and do not like about each candidate. Skipping the process to just pick someone means you miss out on all those data points.

At the end of the day, the only candidate I would prefer (at least at this point) over Capel is Brad Stevens. And I think Capel is likely to be the guy. But going through the process means you dont miss anything and you can be more confident in your selection.

Henderson
03-04-2016, 11:14 AM
Don't worry - His hair will still be jet black

Oh, but it's not jet black now. That's an IC myth. It has individual strands of gray that would be hard to replicate artificially.

sagegrouse
03-04-2016, 12:25 PM
Oh, but it's not jet black now. That's an IC myth. It has individual strands of gray that would be hard to replicate artificially.

Although I will note that the area where a "bald spot" normally occurs has grown and shrunk over the years like the Martian icecaps.

Kindly,
Sage
"I have no problem with a national figure like Mike Krzyzewski taking reasonable steps to maintain a youthful appearance. After all, at about $10 million per, he can afford about anything. I note that Bill Clinton's hair changed color a few times during his presidency. I tend to think that Obama's hair did not turn gray after assuming the presidency, but that he was keeping his hair black until after he was elected, when a a more mature appearance would be useful in domestic and international politics'

"I hope you will appreciate my contribution to these important matters -- I took one rumor and added three more to it"

Channing
03-04-2016, 01:36 PM
I think process is important, particularly going through a formal hiring process. I would pursue the top prospects - Stevens, Smart and Capel among them. Going through a formal process gives you the opportunity learn a lot about who is available, who is interested and why, where salaries are and what you like and do not like about each candidate. Skipping the process to just pick someone means you miss out on all those data points.

At the end of the day, the only candidate I would prefer (at least at this point) over Capel is Brad Stevens. And I think Capel is likely to be the guy. But going through the process means you dont miss anything and you can be more confident in your selection.

Is there any reason to think Brad Stevens is a candidate more than, for instance, a guy like Chris Mack (or any other successful coach)? What about the other Coach K? Has Stevens ever said something about coaching at Duke? I know UNC fans think he is the heir apparent (or Shaka Smart) over there. It all strikes me as just a little bit of wishful thinking.

Jeffrey
03-04-2016, 02:15 PM
I note that Bill Clinton's hair changed color a few times during his presidency.

Well, at least, she did not scalp him!

budwom
03-04-2016, 02:29 PM
Is there any reason to think Brad Stevens is a candidate more than, for instance, a guy like Chris Mack (or any other successful coach)? What about the other Coach K? Has Stevens ever said something about coaching at Duke? I know UNC fans think he is the heir apparent (or Shaka Smart) over there. It all strikes me as just a little bit of wishful thinking.

People who claim to know for sure (and have some credibility) claim that very preliminary conversations have been had in the past. This means virtually nothing at this point, of course,
but it's more than just fan fabrication. And of course Bill Simmons says Stevens going to Duke would be his worst nightmare, for what that's worth.

flyingdutchdevil
03-04-2016, 02:54 PM
People who claim to know for sure (and have some credibility) claim that very preliminary conversations have been had in the past. This means virtually nothing at this point, of course,
but it's more than just fan fabrication. And of course Bill Simmons says Stevens going to Duke would be his worst nightmare, for what that's worth.

Coach K has one of the best - if not the best - job in college basketball. Brad Stevens has arguably the best job in all of basketball. Why would he leave? I know this has been argued before, but Stevens isn't going to the college level again. Have you seen what he's done with the Celtics? With that awful roster they call a team? He's third in the East, which is ridiculous given that their best player is a generously listed 5'9" sixth man.

Coach K is loved in parts of Carolina and across the Duke fan base. Stevens is loved by all of New England. If the Celtics don't work out, he's going to another NBA team, not college.

sagegrouse
03-04-2016, 03:01 PM
People who claim to know for sure (and have some credibility) claim that very preliminary conversations have been had in the past. This means virtually nothing at this point, of course,
but it's more than just fan fabrication. And of course Bill Simmons says Stevens going to Duke would be his worst nightmare, for what that's worth.

Here's my presumption, which Jim and OF can comment on. Brad Stevens has an agent and, of course, Duke AD Kevin White maintains ties with search professionals for coaches. It would be close to malpractice on both parts if there had NOT been general discussions between Duke and Stevens using these intermediaries. I assume these would be general conversations about long-term goals of both parties as well as what I call "swapping lies" about what is going on in the college and pro coaching professions.

The same goes for UNC, unless Bubba is utterly preoccupied with keeping his program off of death row.

tbyers11
03-04-2016, 03:22 PM
Coach K has one of the best - if not the best - job in college basketball. Brad Stevens has arguably the best job in all of basketball. Why would he leave? I know this has been argued before, but Stevens isn't going to the college level again. Have you seen what he's done with the Celtics? With that awful roster they call a team? He's third in the East, which is ridiculous given that their best player is a generously listed 5'9" sixth man.

Coach K is loved in parts of Carolina and across the Duke fan base. Stevens is loved by all of New England. If the Celtics don't work out, he's going to another NBA team, not college.

Agree that Brad Stevens is not going back to college. How often do reasonably successful NBA coaches leave to take a college job? Almost never. Only the washouts (yes I'm looking at you Pitino and Calipari) go back to college. Reasonably successful NBA coaches, which Brad Stevens is definitely trending toward, take another NBA job when they get fired.

Duke79UNLV77
03-04-2016, 03:34 PM
Coach K has one of the best - if not the best - job in college basketball. Brad Stevens has arguably the best job in all of basketball. Why would he leave? I know this has been argued before, but Stevens isn't going to the college level again. Have you seen what he's done with the Celtics? With that awful roster they call a team? He's third in the East, which is ridiculous given that their best player is a generously listed 5'9" sixth man.

Coach K is loved in parts of Carolina and across the Duke fan base. Stevens is loved by all of New England. If the Celtics don't work out, he's going to another NBA team, not college.

Brad Stevens may not be going back to college, but Coach K also arguably has the best job in all of basketball. Coach K isn't just loved in parts of Carolina, but by people all over the country, including many, many people with no connections to Duke. In fact, I'd argue that hate of Coach K is more localized than is admiration for him. I'd also say that Coach K is more famous and could sell more books and draw more speaking engagements than any current coach in the NBA, many of whom are relatively anonymous and could walk down the street without being recognized by the general public.

flyingdutchdevil
03-04-2016, 03:44 PM
Brad Stevens may not be going back to college, but Coach K also arguably has the best job in all of basketball. Coach K isn't just loved in parts of Carolina, but by people all over the country, including many, many people with no connections to Duke. In fact, I'd argue that hate of Coach K is more localized than is admiration for him. I'd also say that Coach K is more famous and could sell more books and draw more speaking engagements than any current coach in the NBA, many of whom are relatively anonymous and could walk down the street without being recognized by the general public.

I agree with your point about Coach K being admired. That is true.

But Coach K having one of the best jobs is a product of Coach K more than it is a product of Duke. If Coach K were to coach at Appalachian St, you could say the same thing about the Appalachian St coaching position.

The coach of the Boston Celtics or the Los Angeles Lakers is a sexy job that comes with domestic and international prestige, exposure to the most powerful people in sports, and automatic admiration by a city/state/area (although that can disappear if you underperform, like every Lakers coach since Phil Jackson). The NBA is a different animal.

OZ
03-04-2016, 03:55 PM
As inane as this may sound, Coach K's successor is not presently one of my main concerns. At my age, I have learned to enjoy the moment and not look too far ahead - less I miss the moment. I understand the speculation, but right now I am just totally enjoying what we have. When Coach K retires, then I will be concerned about his successor.

Duke79UNLV77
03-04-2016, 04:15 PM
I agree with your point about Coach K being admired. That is true.

But Coach K having one of the best jobs is a product of Coach K more than it is a product of Duke. If Coach K were to coach at Appalachian St, you could say the same thing about the Appalachian St coaching position.

The coach of the Boston Celtics or the Los Angeles Lakers is a sexy job that comes with domestic and international prestige, exposure to the most powerful people in sports, and automatic admiration by a city/state/area (although that can disappear if you underperform, like every Lakers coach since Phil Jackson). The NBA is a different animal.

I think Duke as it now stands and other top blue blood college programs and the Celtics/Lakers all give incredible platforms. If you fail, you could be like Billy Gillespie at Kentucky, Matt Doherty at UNC, or various failed coaches with the Celtics, Lakers, Cowboys, Dodgers, etc. I think the risk of failure is higher in the NBA. See Calipari and Pitino, although the latter wasn't a complete failure in the NBA. Once you're established yourself and have it rolling at a blue blood college program, the question could be why would you ever leave for the pros? Why would Saban leave Alabama or Calipari leave Kentucky to go where they might fail, unless they need the new challenge for personal interest or ego? Colleges can now pay more competitively, too. Now, if Stevens keeps doing well in the NBA, I would suspect he'll want to stay there, and my first choice would be a Duke guy anyway. But, if in a couple of years his teams don't take that next leap, I'd say Duke would be a better landing for him than a rebuilding NBA team.

budwom
03-04-2016, 04:29 PM
Coach K has one of the best - if not the best - job in college basketball. Brad Stevens has arguably the best job in all of basketball. Why would he leave? I know this has been argued before, but Stevens isn't going to the college level again. Have you seen what he's done with the Celtics? With that awful roster they call a team? He's third in the East, which is ridiculous given that their best player is a generously listed 5'9" sixth man.

Coach K is loved in parts of Carolina and across the Duke fan base. Stevens is loved by all of New England. If the Celtics don't work out, he's going to another NBA team, not college.

For sure Stevens has done a great job with the Celts, but (if the DBR has a betting bank) I'd bet Stevens does come back at some point to the college ranks.
(I've seen it mentioned that he has an "out" in his current Celtics contract for one particular college job, don't know which one, allegedly not Duke....)

For one thing, the travel schedule is incredibly grueling in the NBA....away from home for a week or more at a time, lots of trips to distant destinations...and when
you add up exhibition, regular season and playoff games, you're looking at over 100 games per year vs something like 40 in college.
Plus the money can be equally good.
So I'll bet one chocolate frosted donut we see Stevens back in the college game at some point...

flyingdutchdevil
03-04-2016, 04:29 PM
I think Duke as it now stands and other top blue blood college programs and the Celtics/Lakers all give incredible platforms. If you fail, you could be like Billy Gillespie at Kentucky, Matt Doherty at UNC, or various failed coaches with the Celtics, Lakers, Cowboys, Dodgers, etc. I think the risk of failure is higher in the NBA. See Calipari and Pitino, although the latter wasn't a complete failure in the NBA. Once you're established yourself and have it rolling at a blue blood college program, the question could be why would you ever leave for the pros? Why would Saban leave Alabama or Calipari leave Kentucky to go where they might fail, unless they need the new challenge for personal interest or ego? Colleges can now pay more competitively, too. Now, if Stevens keeps doing well in the NBA, I would suspect he'll want to stay there, and my first choice would be a Duke guy anyway. But, if in a couple of years his teams don't take that next leap, I'd say Duke would be a better landing for him than a rebuilding NBA team.

You and I will not see eye to eye on this topic then. I view the NBA as more prestigious than college in nearly every way. I like the college game better, but the NBA is the cream of the crop in so many ways, and that applies to coaching. Duke is a blue blood, but I put blue blood programs below the NBA in terms of prestige.

Salaries are indeed comparable, but the exposure is not comparable, especially internationally (the NBA is a global game (audience wise) whereas college is still very much domestic). The NBA has more marketing, more star power, and more money. Coaches are drawn to what is the utmost talented league. It's why successful NBA coaches rarely - if ever - move to the college game but successful college coaches frequently move to the NBA. The 'why leave' question is a good one, but that comes down to a guaranteed job over risking success at the upper level. Coach K is untouchable at Duke, and he'd have to have 20 losing seasons in a row before anyone blinks an eye and considers firing him (yes. That was a hyperbole). Had Coach K taken the Lakers job and lost for two seasons, his job would certainly be at risk. Coach K is protected at Duke (and Calipari at UK, Self at KU, etc), but these coaches aren't protected in the NBA if they perform poorly.

flyingdutchdevil
03-04-2016, 04:34 PM
For sure Stevens has done a great job with the Celts, but (if the DBR has a betting bank) I'd bet Stevens does come back at some point to the college ranks.
(I've seen it mentioned that he has an "out" in his current Celtics contract for one particular college job, don't know which one, allegedly not Duke...)

For one thing, the travel schedule is incredibly grueling in the NBA...away from home for a week or more at a time, lots of trips to distant destinations...and when
you add up exhibition, regular season and playoff games, you're looking at over 100 games per year vs something like 40 in college.
Plus the money can be equally good.
So I'll bet one chocolate frosted donut we see Stevens back in the college game at some point...

This is a bet I'd happily take. Stevens will spend his whole career in the NBA - whether it be coaching or the front office.

Also, college coaches travel like crazy for recruiting. You don't do much recruiting travel as a coach; the recruits / draftees come to you.

Billy Dat
03-04-2016, 04:39 PM
Here is a good podcast interview from this week with Stevens
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/vertical-podcast-chris-mannix/id1078713316?mt=2&i=363959659

While I agree with everything flyingdutch says, I'll add that the NBA is a completely different coaching challenge as the players are SO much better and are able to pick up direction and new ideas and strategies much quicker. Combine it with half the practice time you get in college and it is basically a completely different job. Like K with his immersion in Team USA, Stevens likens it to getting a PhD....and he seems ENTHRALLED. I don't see him returning to college. Plus, does any coach say they enjoy recruiting? It's got to be a huge grind to woo 15-18 year olds (insert inappropriate rejoinder). Stevens fans - definitely listen to the pod, he's an interesting guy and talks a lot about college vs pro.

flyingdutchdevil
03-04-2016, 04:41 PM
Here is a good podcast interview from this week with Stevens
https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/vertical-podcast-chris-mannix/id1078713316?mt=2&i=363959659

While I agree with everything flyingdutch says, I'll add that the NBA is a completely different coaching challenge as the players are SO much better and are able to pick up direction and new ideas and strategies much quicker. Combine it with half the practice time you get in college and it is basically a completely different job. Like K with his immersion in Team USA, Stevens likens it to getting a PhD...and he seems ENTHRALLED. I don't see him returning to college. Plus, does any coach say they enjoy recruiting? It's got to be a huge grind to woo 15-18 year olds (insert inappropriate rejoinder). Stevens fans - definitely listen to the pod, he's an interesting guy and talks a lot about college vs pro.

Jeff Capel HAS to enjoy recruiting, right? ;)

If he doesn't, I don't wanna see him do something he enjoys.

budwom
03-04-2016, 04:44 PM
This is a bet I'd happily take. Stevens will spend his whole career in the NBA - whether it be coaching or the front office.

Also, college coaches travel like crazy for recruiting. You don't do much recruiting travel as a coach; the recruits / draftees come to you.

I need to keep a file on this stuff, especially if I can win a chocolate donut! I just think it's fun to speculate about this.
Stevens is on a roll now, doing great. But what if the Celts just don't get him the players he needs to win more....does he stick around
indefinitely? As they improve, I can't see him leaving...but if they stagnate, if their roster doesn't improve, I could definitely see
him heading back to college. There's always Larry Brown for a role model! Big Cal!

sagegrouse
03-04-2016, 04:58 PM
I agree with your point about Coach K being admired. That is true.

But Coach K having one of the best jobs is a product of Coach K more than it is a product of Duke. If Coach K were to coach at Appalachian St, you could say the same thing about the Appalachian St coaching position.

The coach of the Boston Celtics or the Los Angeles Lakers is a sexy job that comes with domestic and international prestige, exposure to the most powerful people in sports, and automatic admiration by a city/state/area (although that can disappear if you underperform, like every Lakers coach since Phil Jackson). The NBA is a different animal.

The Lakers and Celtics jobs may have more cachet than college jobs, but that doesn't make them better jobs. Job security is almost non-existent in the NBA with the exception of Phil, Red Auerbach and Pop (shout out to Pat Riley). Everybody else gets fired. As Riley said some time ago (paraphrase): "After a few years, the players tune you out and you have to leave."

In college there are quite a few long-timers who can stay at their school as long as they want at handsome levels of compensation. K, Izzo, Roy, Boeheim, Self, Calipari and Pitino (who's a Houdini at avoiding the scandal guillotine). Tony Bennett and Mike Brey are moving into this territory. Is Brad Stevens automatically a member of this group? No, but I'll bet he'd be really successful once again at the college level, wespecially with a big-name program.

sagegrouse
03-04-2016, 05:19 PM
Thanks to the folks at Syracuse, here is a ranking of major college coaches by tenure (as of last October):



1976
April 3 Jim Boeheim Syracuse
1980
March 18 Mike Krzyzewski Duke
1989
May 19 Bob McKillop Davidson
1995
July 1 Tom Izzo Michigan State
July 20 Phil Martelli Saint Joseph's
1999
April 1 Kevin Stallings Vanderbilt
July 26 Mark Few Gonzaga
2000
July 14 Mike Brey Notre Dame
2001
March 21 Rick Pitino Louisville
March 27 Jay Wright Villanova
2002
March 19 Leonard Hamilton Florida State
April 3 Lorenzo Romar Washington
2003
April 14 Roy Williams North Carolina
April 15 Jamie Dixon Pittsburgh
April 21 Bill Self Kansas
Aug 22 Scott Drew Baylor
2004
April 20 John Thompson III Georgetown
July 7 Thad Matta Ohio State
2005
April 1 Matt Painter Purdue
April 11 Dave Rose Brigham Young
2006
March 23 Mick Cronin Cincinnati
March 24 Andy Kennedy Mississippi
April 10 Fran Dunphy Temple
2007
April 3 John Beilein Michigan
April 6 Bob Huggins West Virginia
April 6 Kerry Keating Santa Clara
April 13 Tommy Amaker Harvard
April 14 Gregg Marshall Wichita State
2008
April 2 Tom Crean Indiana
April 17 Travis Ford Oklahoma State
April 28 Johnny Dawkins Stanford

Hingeknocker
03-04-2016, 05:26 PM
It's hard for me to pin down how I feel about what I want to have happen. There are times when I am convinced that Capel is the absolute best choice, and images of Tupac wearing the jersey of the current Duke Head Coach dance through my head as we continue to rack up stud recruits, wins, and championships. There are other times when I am convinced that we absolutely need to hire someone outside of the family - find the best possible choice who won't be shackled to the Coach K years but will have the highest standards of success.

However, I know what I don't want to have happen. I know there are some soccer fans on this board, so I'll just point to what's happening at Manchester United in the years after Sir Alex Ferguson's retirement. Without thinking about it too carefully or elaborating at length, there are a lot of similarities between SAF and Coach K and the programs they built during their time in charge. And, without a doubt, those two were/are the undisputed leaders, both publicly and privately, in those programs. The GIANT problem that Manchester United has right now is three-fold:

1) SAF had an outsized level of control over the club, so without him there is a vacuum that hasn't been filled and probably cannot be filled by just his replacement as Manager. This problem may or not apply to the same degree for Coach K at Duke, but to the degree that it does, I'm not sure there's any way to overcome this problem.

2) Problem 1 manifests itself into this one, which is that SAF was credited with so much say in the selection of his successor, that I really don't think anyone was going to come in a do a good job. While I certainly expect that Coach K will have input, this needs to be more than just his decision. Some have speculated that Kevin White wouldn't have taken the AD job at Duke if he wasn't going to get significant input in the next basketball hire. I hope this is the case.

3) This is the big one to me. SAF is still at nearly every game. Sitting in the stands, quiet and stoic, usually subdued because the team's results have not been so favorable lately. But he casts an irrepressible shadow over nearly everything the club does, just by his mere physical presence. This is the problem that I desperately want Duke to avoid. I'm not sure if who we hire as the replacement will help or hurt this problem, but it concerns me. If Coach K wants to attend every home game, I'm not sure how you say no - but whenever the time comes for him to leave, I hope he is ready to fully turn over the reins. Even leaving one toe in the water (which, to me, SAF clearly has) creates an inescapable distraction and makes the legacy damn near impossible to live up to.

Tripping William
03-04-2016, 07:52 PM
Thanks to the folks at Syracuse, here is a ranking of major college coaches by tenure (as of last October):



1976
April 3 Jim Boeheim Syracuse
1980
March 18 Mike Krzyzewski Duke
1989
May 19 Bob McKillop Davidson
1995
July 1 Tom Izzo Michigan State
July 20 Phil Martelli Saint Joseph's
1999
April 1 Kevin Stallings Vanderbilt
July 26 Mark Few Gonzaga
2000
July 14 Mike Brey Notre Dame
2001
March 21 Rick Pitino Louisville
March 27 Jay Wright Villanova
2002
March 19 Leonard Hamilton Florida State
April 3 Lorenzo Romar Washington
2003
April 14 Roy Williams North Carolina
April 15 Jamie Dixon Pittsburgh
April 21 Bill Self Kansas
Aug 22 Scott Drew Baylor
2004
April 20 John Thompson III Georgetown
July 7 Thad Matta Ohio State
2005
April 1 Matt Painter Purdue
April 11 Dave Rose Brigham Young
2006
March 23 Mick Cronin Cincinnati
March 24 Andy Kennedy Mississippi
April 10 Fran Dunphy Temple
2007
April 3 John Beilein Michigan
April 6 Bob Huggins West Virginia
April 6 Kerry Keating Santa Clara
April 13 Tommy Amaker Harvard
April 14 Gregg Marshall Wichita State
2008
April 2 Tom Crean Indiana
April 17 Travis Ford Oklahoma State
April 28 Johnny Dawkins Stanford


Absolutely fascinating on a gazillion levels. Thanks for posting .

-jk
03-05-2016, 12:58 AM
It's all part of the Pagliuca quid pro quo - the Celtics are stashing Stevens for us. He's off the college market until we need him. :)

-jk

superdave
03-05-2016, 08:14 AM
Coach K has one of the best - if not the best - job in college basketball. Brad Stevens has arguably the best job in all of basketball. Why would he leave? I know this has been argued before, but Stevens isn't going to the college level again. Have you seen what he's done with the Celtics? With that awful roster they call a team? He's third in the East, which is ridiculous given that their best player is a generously listed 5'9" sixth man.

Coach K is loved in parts of Carolina and across the Duke fan base. Stevens is loved by all of New England. If the Celtics don't work out, he's going to another NBA team, not college.

Brad Stevens is the dream. I have no idea what he thinks about Duke, or where he and the Celtics might be several years down the road. All speculation, these internets.

But I would bet Stevens would listen. I bet he would not listen for 99.99% of other coaching jobs, but he would for Duke. For him, he may decide college is more fun, that Boston weather and accents suck, and that free agents are not coming there.

He may also like Eastern style Q. Who knows.

What if Stevens was told to come to Duke, inherit the machine, become the post-Popovich National Team coach, buy a house on Figure Eight or Bald Head and join Mount Rushmore? Pretty compelling. Who knows.

Indoor66
03-05-2016, 08:36 AM
Brad Stevens is the dream. I have no idea what he thinks about Duke, or where he and the Celtics might be several years down the road. All speculation, these internets.

But I would bet Stevens would listen. I bet he would not listen for 99.99% of other coaching jobs, but he would for Duke. For him, he may decide college is more fun, that Boston weather and accents suck, and that free agents are not coming there.

He may also like Eastern style Q. Who knows.

What if Stevens was told to come to Duke, inherit the machine, become the post-Popovich National Team coach, buy a house on Figure Eight or Bald Head and join Mount Rushmore? Pretty compelling. Who knows.

An even greater honor would be joining Mount Hatemore.:cool:

dukejim1
03-05-2016, 08:39 AM
Brad Stevens is the dream. I have no idea what he thinks about Duke, or where he and the Celtics might be several years down the road. All speculation, these internets.

But I would bet Stevens would listen. I bet he would not listen for 99.99% of other coaching jobs, but he would for Duke. For him, he may decide college is more fun, that Boston weather and accents suck, and that free agents are not coming there.

He may also like Eastern style Q. Who knows.

What if Stevens was told to come to Duke, inherit the machine, become the post-Popovich National Team coach, buy a house on Figure Eight or Bald Head and join Mount Rushmore? Pretty compelling. Who knows.

Who makes the hire?
K = inside family for sure probably Capel
White = inside probably but slight chance for outside

devildeac
03-05-2016, 08:53 AM
An even greater honor would be joining Mount Hatemore.:cool:

And I still remain humbled by being enshrined thereon.

Duke79UNLV77
03-05-2016, 10:02 AM
Salaries are indeed comparable, but the exposure is not comparable, especially internationally (the NBA is a global game (audience wise) whereas college is still very much domestic). The NBA has more marketing, more star power, and more money. Coaches are drawn to what is the utmost talented league. It's why successful NBA coaches rarely - if ever - move to the college game but successful college coaches frequently move to the NBA. The 'why leave' question is a good one, but that comes down to a guaranteed job over risking success at the upper level. Coach K is untouchable at Duke, and he'd have to have 20 losing seasons in a row before anyone blinks an eye and considers firing him (yes. That was a hyperbole). Had Coach K taken the Lakers job and lost for two seasons, his job would certainly be at risk. Coach K is protected at Duke (and Calipari at UK, Self at KU, etc), but these coaches aren't protected in the NBA if they perform poorly.

The NBA certainly offers international exposure and marketing for its players, but is Steve Kerr selling a lot of jerseys or books in China? Is Brad Stevens? I doubt it. I'd think that Coach K is more famous internationally than most, and possibly even all, Celtics and Lakers coaches over the years, although the Olympics would contribute significantly to that exposure. Even taking that away, I doubt that Steve Kerr is recognized internationally more than Calipari, and that's not attributable to Cal's time with the Nets. Also, the job security piece is not minor. Stevens is hot now, but things can turn very quickly in the NBA. Pop is the biggest institutional coach in the NBA, but even if he had 2 straight down years, he might be nudged towards retirement.

Indoor66
03-05-2016, 10:03 AM
And I still remain humbled by being enshrined thereon.

As well you should, though humility was never a prerequisite for such enshrinement (and for that you should be forever grateful:p). :cool:

Henderson
03-05-2016, 10:32 AM
It's all part of the Pagliuca quid pro quo - the Celtics are stashing Stevens for us. He's off the college market until we need him. :)

-jk

That would certainly explain Nick coming off the bench before much better players.

Maybe Bernie Sanders is right: The whole friggin' thing is rigged by rich guys perpetuating their own hierarchy.