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View Full Version : I'm curious about Ty Lawson



rthomas
03-14-2009, 07:19 PM
Is he sitting out for tomorrows game too?

Go Duke!

Neals384
03-14-2009, 07:24 PM
Yes, Ty Lawson is sitrting out tomorrow's game. So are Hanstravel and the rest of the TH's!

dukelifer
03-14-2009, 07:26 PM
Is he sitting out for tomorrows game too?

Go Duke!
The question is whether he will practice all week. I expect his toe is really hurt and that is not an injury that just heals quickly. He will be playing in pain as long as UNC is in it.

rthomas
03-14-2009, 08:07 PM
The question is whether he will practice all week. I expect his toe is really hurt and that is not an injury that just heals quickly. He will be playing in pain as long as UNC is in it.

The question is whether he exacerbated his injury by participating in the Duke game last week.

The answer is that he is sitting tomorrow.

yancem
03-14-2009, 08:36 PM
The question is whether he exacerbated his injury by participating in the Duke game last week.

The answer is that he is sitting tomorrow.

The word I heard is that he took a cortisone shot before the Duke game, which is why he was able to play pain free. The problem is, after the game his toe apparently was very swollen. It's quite possible that he may not be able to play next week. Luckily for unc, they will almost definitely still end up with a 1 seed and should still be able to get through the first 2 games of the tournament.

The second weekend? Who knows.

CameronBornAndBred
03-14-2009, 08:40 PM
If they are losing in any game that Lawson has sat for the majority of, does Roy bring him in cold? My guess is he'll be ready by Thursday anyways, but if not, and that scenario plays out, it will be interesting to see what Roy does. He said tonight if it's the FF and he hasn't played him because he is still hurt, he would be tempted to anyways.

spifi
03-14-2009, 08:56 PM
I doubt you see a situation where Roy would put a player in cold like that. Only way it happens is if he sits him in a situation where he is completely cleared to play because he thinks he wouldn't need him against a weak opponent, only to find himself needing him badly to try to save the tournament.

This isn't the kind of injury where that happens, though. If he's cleared to play that means he's cleared such that they are in no way worried about him swelling badly after or anything like that. In that case, Roy plays him from the beginning anyway to try to get his team back in rhythm. If he can't, well, he can't. I've never seen any reason to believe K or Roy are any different with respect to how they treat injured players. It's player's welfare first, team second. There's very little gray area there.

dukelifer
03-14-2009, 09:16 PM
The word I heard is that he took a cortisone shot before the Duke game, which is why he was able to play pain free. The problem is, after the game his toe apparently was very swollen. It's quite possible that he may not be able to play next week. Luckily for unc, they will almost definitely still end up with a 1 seed and should still be able to get through the first 2 games of the tournament.

The second weekend? Who knows.

Without Lawson- they will be tested in that 8-9 matchup. Without Lawson, UNC has much less margin for error. Of course, it gets even smaller when Green shoots like he did this weekend.

Billy Dat
03-14-2009, 09:20 PM
It's funny...the Lawson injury doesn't seem to have anyone in the media questioning UNC's chances. All I am hearing is, "This was good for UNC, they learned to played without Lawson...they'll be even better when he comes back!"

If we were without Singler for the same stretch, I'd be terrified. I am waiting for some major reporter to jump on the "Why isn't anyone worried about Lawson's injury?" story.

dukelifer
03-14-2009, 09:26 PM
It's funny...the Lawson injury doesn't seem to have anyone in the media questioning UNC's chances. All I am hearing is, "This was good for UNC, they learned to played without Lawson...they'll be even better when he comes back!"

If we were without Singler for the same stretch, I'd be terrified. I am waiting for some major reporter to jump on the "Why isn't anyone worried about Lawson's injury?" story.
It was good for UNC if he comes back- but while UNC can still win it without Lawson- I expect most every game they play to be very close.

bjornolf
03-14-2009, 09:32 PM
If Lawson is out and Carolina loses, do you think UNC will petition the NCAA to give Hansbrough an extra year to get that championship he's been wanting? This season shouldn't count if Carolina doesn't have Lawson for the tourney, dagumit. :p

On a more serious note... if Lawson playing in the last game of the season to help UNC beat Duke in what will go down as basically a meaningless game ends up costing Carolina a shot at the title... wow.

superdave
03-14-2009, 09:35 PM
What exactly does he have, a sprained toe? Anyone know anything about this? Is it something akin to a sprained ankle?

Any chance it gets amputated and they lose Round 1? Just kidding....sort of....

Lawson sat out an extra week or two last year with the sprained ankle and supposedly Ol roy wasnt too pleased. I have heard a few Unc fans question Lawson's dedication in the past week.

Of course Ol Roy doesnt care about the ACC tourney so it works out well....built-in excuse for the loss, extra day off, extreme self-satisfaction among fan base because this compares directly to 2005.

Super "Anyone remember how Villanova was beaten by the refs in 2005, not by Unc?" Dave

spifi
03-14-2009, 09:35 PM
I suspect there's no media outcry about Lawson and the future because after today's game he said he'd be back next weekend.

duketaylor
03-14-2009, 09:46 PM
If I heard correctly, a stubbed toe, not sure of the official physicians term, I'd guess bruised. Can be very painful and easily re-injured, for all of us, which is likely, all of us, who've had it before. Just hope you don't get gout, which makes a stubbed toe feel like bliss compared to gout. Thank the scientists for allopurinol;)

DukeFencer
03-14-2009, 10:40 PM
I live in Atlanta and occasionally miss the Triangle-centered basketball news on every radio station. My sister (lives in Raleigh) said the day before the UNC game they went on for 20 minutes about Lawson's toe, discussing the ins and outs of such a horrible injury and how it would affect UNC in their upcoming game. In the last seconds of the report, they said something along the lines of, "Duke is battling some injuries, too." No mention of broken nose, concussion, or high ankle sprain, but of course those pale in comparison to a toe injury.

superdave
03-14-2009, 10:50 PM
I can get you a toe.
http://media.80stees.com/images/products/The_Big_Lebowski_You_Want_a_Toe-T.jpg

Newton_14
03-14-2009, 11:18 PM
I live in Atlanta and occasionally miss the Triangle-centered basketball news on every radio station. My sister (lives in Raleigh) said the day before the UNC game they went on for 20 minutes about Lawson's toe, discussing the ins and outs of such a horrible injury and how it would affect UNC in their upcoming game. In the last seconds of the report, they said something along the lines of, "Duke is battling some injuries, too." No mention of broken nose, concussion, or high ankle sprain, but of course those pale in comparison to a toe injury.

Your sister was correct. On the Saturday Sports Morning Show on 850 The Buzz last weekend, they discussed Lawson's injury ad naseum for 3 hours and what impact it would have on the Duke/unc game. They briefly mentioned Lance was probable, and gave little to no time to Nolan, Jon, and Zoubs injuries. It was all about Lawson.

Interestingly, during the Maryland/State game Thursday night, Jimmy Dykes was calling the game on ESPN. They showed the Neal pick on Nolan, and the other announcer mentioned Nolan's health, and the fact Duke was coming into the tourney a little banged up. Dykes immediately commented that the pick was legal, and that the REAL injury story for this tourney was the health of UNC's Ty Lawson. Like any injuries other teams had were irrelevant.

Sure Lawson is the key to the holes, but like Seth Greenburg put it yesterday, they still have Hanstravel, and they replaced Lawson with a McDonald's All American. And it's not like they were undefeated with Lawson in the lineup.

Newton_14
03-14-2009, 11:38 PM
It was good for UNC if he comes back- but while UNC can still win it without Lawson- I expect most every game they play to be very close.

I really don't believe they can win it without Lawson. It's likely a moot point since I fully expect Lawson will not miss a game in the NCAA tourney, but I think they would be hard pressed to make the Final Four without him. Without him they lose two key components of their offense. First is his ability in the half court to drive the basketball and score. Second is the speed he brings to allow them to get easy transition baskets. I do not feel they could overcome that in the Big Dance.

But I don't care how or when they lose in the tourney as long as they lose!

Go Duke!

tele
03-14-2009, 11:39 PM
I think uncch would have lost even had Lawson played. His toe just gave ol' roy an excuse for coming up short again in a big game. FSU beat them, and Duke will have their hands full tomorrow, especially with LT and Z still being hobbled by injury and Nolan still getting back in stride. In football turf toe can linger for months, not sure if this is the same injury, but I expect toes to be a major topic of discussion for heel fans for the rest of their season.

dukemsu
03-15-2009, 12:20 AM
I really don't believe they can win it without Lawson. It's likely a moot point since I fully expect Lawson will not miss a game in the NCAA tourney, but I think they would be hard pressed to make the Final Four without him. Without him they lose two key components of their offense. First is his ability in the half court to drive the basketball and score. Second is the speed he brings to allow them to get easy transition baskets. I do not feel they could overcome that in the Big Dance.

But I don't care how or when they lose in the tourney as long as they lose!

Go Duke!

There is no way on earth they win the tournament without Lawson, or without him playing very well. The morons at ESPN will pronounce the Heels favorites, but they have matchup problems all over the board, namely with teams with multiple bigs who are physical to throw at Beaker. That is the template (KU last year, Wake and FSU this year). Pitt and UConn are the most obvious candidates who fit that profile, but there are others.

UNC needs Lawson as he is their trump card-when healthy he is the fastest player in America. They are a good team without him, but asking Frasor to fill that role is hilarious and unfair.

dukemsu

yancem
03-15-2009, 08:27 AM
There is no way on earth they win the tournament without Lawson, or without him playing very well. The morons at ESPN will pronounce the Heels favorites, but they have matchup problems all over the board, namely with teams with multiple bigs who are physical to throw at Beaker. That is the template (KU last year, Wake and FSU this year). Pitt and UConn are the most obvious candidates who fit that profile, but there are others.

UNC needs Lawson as he is their trump card-when healthy he is the fastest player in America. They are a good team without him, but asking Frasor to fill that role is hilarious and unfair.

dukemsu

Agreed! UNC, even without Lawson is a formidable team and would have a chance any given game but to win 6 in a row? I doubt it. I know that they won a lot of games last year while Lawson was out but this team (mainly due to the loss of Ginyard) just seems more fragile.

dukegirlinsc
03-15-2009, 09:10 AM
Lawson Schmawson. I hate when they lose games without him, it's such an excuse. Granted, he's a great player and brings a lot to that team....But dang it. The number one team in the nation should be able to adapt and overcome.

dukelifer
03-15-2009, 09:21 AM
I really don't believe they can win it without Lawson. It's likely a moot point since I fully expect Lawson will not miss a game in the NCAA tourney, but I think they would be hard pressed to make the Final Four without him. Without him they lose two key components of their offense. First is his ability in the half court to drive the basketball and score. Second is the speed he brings to allow them to get easy transition baskets. I do not feel they could overcome that in the Big Dance.

But I don't care how or when they lose in the tourney as long as they lose!

Go Duke!

Yesterday I was thinking that Hansbrough could have one of those tourneys where he puts the team on his back and leads them to the NCAA finals. Yes they lost but they are not going to be blown out- so they are going to be in every game. If Ellington and Green play to their potential- UNC is not an easy out. I think they are a better defensive team when they slow things down- or at least they focus better on D when not racing up and down the court. UNC is good enough to win it all because Hansbrough is a load for most every team-and they have a lot of quality players remaining- but they are much more beatable with no or a hobbled Lawson.

captmojo
03-15-2009, 09:25 AM
Use of an injured player harms the overall focus of any team. The game yesterday was not lost due to the absence of Lawson. It was one of a string of last possession determined outcomes between the holes and Noles. The same result could have happened with a healthy Lawson, playing the usual amount of minutes.

roywhite
03-15-2009, 09:30 AM
Use of an injured player harms the overall focus of any team. The game yesterday was not lost due to the absence of Lawson. It was one of a string of last possession determined outcomes between the holes and Noles. The same result could have happened with a healthy Lawson, playing the usual amount of minutes.

The game yesterday also featured reasonably good game coaching by Leonard Hamilton, which certainly wasn't the case in Tallahassee, where the 'Noles somehow gave the game away in the last 2 minutes.

Let's hope Leonard's subpar "strategery" is in play today. :)

blueprofessor
03-15-2009, 11:19 AM
The game yesterday also featured reasonably good game coaching by Leonard Hamilton, which certainly wasn't the case in Tallahassee, where the 'Noles somehow gave the game away in the last 2 minutes.

Let's hope Leonard's subpar "strategery" is in play today. :)

The FSU players had more to do than Hamilton in losing the game to UNC in Tallahassee.
A stolen inbound pass led to a 3-point play.The trailing FSU player fouled a lay-up shooter.
Douglas drew a bunch of contact (a foul, uncalled) from Hanstravel on his shot from the top of the key---it was an airball. UNC inbounded to Lawson who dribbled to the top of the key where he hit a shot to win at the buzzer.

While Hamilton is not the best coach in the last minutes, player(and a ref's no-call) errors cost FSU the game.
Now, Hamilton might have called for ball denial on Lawson the last few seconds and his players simply were not in place---if he did not attempt to deny Lawson the inbound pass, it was a huge coaching mistake.


Douglas was fouled by Hans on FSU's last shot. That would have put him on the line for 2 with the game tied.

If that last Douglas shot had hit the rim or board, there would not have been time for Lawson to get close to take the shot.OT.

What Hamilton is good at is coaching his team to play very hard.We need to be prepared for a war today, because FSU has gotten better and they are getting help from players in addition to Douglas. Alabi is a stud.They still dribble too much and try to beat 2 defenders off the dribble. Their bigs make weak passes leading to turnovers. UNC was denying Douglas late and he was getting frustrated,which was bothering his mates who are used to his taking over.Also, FSU has difficulty maintaining "their" pace and gets ensnared in the other team's pace.
FSU has better talent than VT and MD.They think they will win.

Best--Blueprofessor:)

Hancock 4 Duke
03-15-2009, 11:30 AM
I don't see how one player can predict the out come of one game. To find out, you would have to subtract lawson's average from the final score of the Holes game, and add what points the person in Lawson's place got. Then you will have the answer. You can also do this with rebounds, assists, etc.

rthomas
03-15-2009, 11:33 AM
I don't see how one player can predict the out come of one game. To find out, you would have to subtract lawson's average from the final score of the Holes game, and add what points the person in Lawson's place got. Then you will have the answer. You can also do this with rebounds, assists, etc.

Or if you have Battier on your team, you have to subtract the intangibles.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-15-2009, 11:58 AM
I don't see how one player can predict the out come of one game. To find out, you would have to subtract lawson's average from the final score of the Holes game, and add what points the person in Lawson's place got. Then you will have the answer. You can also do this with rebounds, assists, etc.
Somehow I prefer to see a game actually played to determine cause and effect, positive or negative, of any player rather than to rely primarily or solely on isolated statistics.

Onlyduke
03-15-2009, 11:59 AM
I keep wondering if Carolina were able to roll the clock back if they would play Lawson versus Duke. Even tho' he took the shot and could play, I'm guessing he injured it even more by playing on it. Guess they wanted to beat Duke more than take their chances at the ACC Tournament without him.

CTDukeFan
03-15-2009, 02:03 PM
I keep wondering if Carolina were able to roll the clock back if they would play Lawson versus Duke. Even tho' he took the shot and could play, I'm guessing he injured it even more by playing on it. Guess they wanted to beat Duke more than take their chances at the ACC Tournament without him.

Duke would get the last laugh if Lawson was out for the NCAAs because he played in the final regular season game.

I'm very surprised he's out for the tournament but played against Duke. I haven't read much about his injury (before I thought it was just a sympathy injury to make people think Carolina was hurt) but I think you have to assume he injured it more against Duke since he's out now.

Surfsideron
03-15-2009, 10:00 PM
SIMILARITY: Both UNC and Duke played FSU without Lawson.

DIFFERENCE: Duke won!