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View Full Version : Scheyer's Free Throw Routine



ChrisP
03-14-2009, 12:29 AM
Sorry if this has been discussed in another thread. I read the boards almost daily and haven't seen a mention of it. Anyway...has anyone else noticed that Scheyer's FT "routine" is not a routine at all? Jon is inconsistent in the way he approaches FT's. When he follows through on his shot - e.g. hands "hanging" for a second or so after the release, he shoots about 90%. But...when he shoots it quick - flicks his wrist and drops his hands suddenly, he's shooting maybe around 50%. I've noticed this a lot in games in the last 3rd of the season. Probably because Jon has been going to the line more often lately.

The weird thing is, he'll sometimes change up what he's doing at the line from the 1st to the 2nd attempt on a two-shot foul. It's odd and I would think a seasoned, smart player like Scheyer would have a more established routine that he'd follow. I always thought that was one of the reasons JJ was so good - he did the exact same thing at the line each time he shot a FT. When he went to the line for his final attempt tonight against BC, I was screaming at the TV, "Follow THROUGH! Don't just flick it up there!". Of course he flicked it and missed. He actually makes a lot of those even with poor form which I guess just goes to show what a good shooter he is.

Anyway...I hope the coaching staff is working with Jon on establishing and following a good routine for his FT's - he could be JJ deadly for us at the end of games.

heyman25
03-14-2009, 01:18 AM
I don't think he is a great shooter,but this year's team relies on him heavily to score and run the offense. He definitely is not money or he would not have missed that front end of the 1 and 1,

Bluedog
03-14-2009, 01:25 AM
I don't think he is a great shooter,but this year's team relies on him heavily to score and run the offense. He definitely is not money or he would not have missed that front end of the 1 and 1,

I disagree. I think he is money. There is no other person on the team that I'd want on the line shooting free throws during end of game situations. He happened to miss it tonight, but it was a very rare occurrence. Scheyer shoots 85.7 % from the line - I believe that is the top 10 in ACC history. If Scheyer's free throws are our biggest concern, then we're in good shape!

I also recall him hitting some clutch free throws in the past. Again, didn't happen tonight, but that was a HUGE anomaly. I want him on the line when the game is on the line more than any other player on our team - no question in my mind.

wisteria
03-14-2009, 01:27 AM
Isn't he like the 2nd highest ft percent shooter in duke history or something?

Jon has been missing end of game fts lately. especially after the lineup change. I think it has something to do with the (almost) 40 minutes of running the team. He's probably gassed.

zingit
03-14-2009, 02:24 AM
Also, you're mixing up correlation and cause. Maybe he puts his hand down after making the shot because he knows it didn't feel good leaving his hands, while he leaves his hand up in anticipation of the ball going in. It's good to follow through, but there's no need to leave his hand up there once the ball is out of his hands.

mo.st.dukie
03-14-2009, 03:39 AM
I think what happened with Scheyer's free throws against BC was more of a mental thing than anything else.

doctorhook
03-14-2009, 07:42 AM
Who knows if it his routine, mechanics or whatever, but his clutch ft shooting % is below his season % unfortunately. Doc

ChrisP
03-14-2009, 10:10 AM
Also, you're mixing up correlation and cause. Maybe he puts his hand down after making the shot because he knows it didn't feel good leaving his hands, while he leaves his hand up in anticipation of the ball going in. It's good to follow through, but there's no need to leave his hand up there once the ball is out of his hands.

With all due respect, I really don't think I'm "mixed up" about this. Haven't you ever heard about how great shooters "hang their hands" and do a good job of "following through" on their shots? I tell you what, next game, really pay attention to Scheyer's FT's. I'd be willing to bet you a lot of money that if he follows through, he makes 90% of those and the ones where he doesn't follow through on the shot, he'll miss about half.

Hancock 4 Duke
03-14-2009, 10:52 AM
does anyone know what Singler says before he shoots a FT? He mouths something before EVERY ONE. What is it?

pratt '04
03-14-2009, 10:58 AM
does anyone know what Singler says before he shoots a FT? He mouths something before EVERY ONE. What is it?

Looks to me like he says "rainbow"

bjornolf
03-14-2009, 10:59 AM
I hadn't noticed that about Scheyer, however, if it is true, maybe on the ones he flicks, it doesn't feel right, and the flick is him trying to adjust the shot at the end to "will" it through the hoop. Maybe he would have missed those anyway, but he's trying to fix it at the last second. I'm no Scheyer, but I know I have a tendency to do that on all my shots. If it feels good I go up straight and "let it hang". If it doesn't feel right, I trying to adjust at the last second and I'm moving toward the basket for the rebound as soon as the ball leaves my hands.

captmojo
03-14-2009, 11:01 AM
does anyone know what Singler says before he shoots a FT? He mouths something before EVERY ONE. What is it?

I've tried to read his lips but alas, I'm stumped. JJ would recite the same thing before each shot. Hey, whatever works. You need something to remind you to slow down, take your time, catch your breath and be relaxed. Too many forget that you have plenty of time, after being handed the ball, to take the shot. I have noticed too many hurried releases, resulting in some shots that haven't hit the mark.

Watch our team today when at the line. If they take their time, they will generally put up a good shot.

bjornolf
03-14-2009, 11:21 AM
I've tried to read his lips too. The best I can see is it's something like "Come on, man." But I could be totally wrong. I'm constantly entertaining my wife with my botched song lyrics when I'm singing along to the radio. Maybe I'll ask my mom to watch during tonight's game. She was a special ed teacher that taught the deaf to read lips. If anyone can pick it up, she can.

DukeDevilDeb
03-14-2009, 11:39 AM
I don't think he is a great shooter,but this year's team relies on him heavily to score and run the offense. He definitely is not money or he would not have missed that front end of the 1 and 1,

for the most ridiculous post of the night. Stats on our three big free throw shooters: G is 112/159 (70.4%); Kyle is 116/154 (75.3%); Jon is 147/177 (83.1%). There is NO ONE I would rather have at the line at any point in any game than Jon. Yes, he missed that free throw after playing 39 minutes and hitting 4 key 3 point shots. I was surprised, but I don't think it is because he "isn't money."

Remember Jason's big free throw miss? He wasn't money either, was he? Laettner missed some free throws at the end of one game his frosh year, and we lost. It happens. When anyone starts shooting 100% from the charity stripe, I'll vote for that person to go ahead of Jon. There are a few guys with higher % (Pocius, for example) but they don't shoot enough to really count.

Furthermore, I believe Jon's FT % has gone down a little BECAUSE he is playing the point. His freshman year, he shot .849; last year, he shot .889.

But no, I forgot... he isn't money, is he?! :D

CDu
03-14-2009, 11:48 AM
for the most ridiculous post of the night. Stats on our three big free throw shooters: G is 112/159 (70.4%); Kyle is 116/154 (75.3%); Jon is 147/177 (83.1%). There is NO ONE I would rather have at the line at any point in any game than Jon. Yes, he missed that free throw after playing 39 minutes and hitting 4 key 3 point shots. I was surprised, but I don't think it is because he "isn't money."

Remember Jason's big free throw miss? He wasn't money either, was he? Laettner missed some free throws at the end of one game his frosh year, and we lost. It happens. When anyone starts shooting 100% from the charity stripe, I'll vote for that person to go ahead of Jon. There are a few guys with higher % (Pocius, for example) but they don't shoot enough to really count.

Furthermore, I believe Jon's FT % has gone down a little BECAUSE he is playing the point. His freshman year, he shot .849; last year, he shot .889.

But no, I forgot... he isn't money, is he?! :D

Actually, you have those flipped. Henderson is 75%, Singler is 70%. But yes, Scheyer is much better on the line than either of them.

Other than that, I think the discussion of any player being "money" is silly. Jon's a good free throw shooter - the best free throw shooter on the team. I don't think anyone gets better in pressure/late situations - if they did, I'd question their motivation/effort earlier in the game. If all one means by saying "money" is that the player is highly like to make free throws at any given point in time, then Scheyer certainly qualifies.

MonitorMom
03-14-2009, 11:48 AM
I thinks it's Rambo Singler says

DukeDevilDeb
03-14-2009, 11:51 AM
Actually, you have those flipped. Henderson is 75%, Singler is 70%. But yes, Scheyer is much better on the line than either of them.

Other than that, I think the discussion of any player being "money" is silly. Jon's a good free throw shooter - the best free throw shooter on the team. I don't think anyone gets better in pressure/late situations - if they did, I'd question their motivation/effort earlier in the game. If all one means by saying "money" is that the player is highly like to make free throws at any given point in time, then Scheyer certainly qualifies.

If you get the stats from goduke.com, I have them flipped. But if you calculate them yourself, mine are correct. 11200/159=70.4. 11600/154=75.3.

Unfortunately, I think it is goduke that has them flipped!!!!

CDu
03-14-2009, 11:54 AM
If you get the stats from goduke.com, I have them flipped. But if you calculate them yourself, mine are correct. 11200/159=70.4. 11600/154=75.3.

Unfortunately, I think it is goduke that has them flipped!!!!

GoDuke has it correct as well. The calculations were correct - you just attached the wrong names to the stats. Singler is 112/159, Henderson is 116/154.

DukeDevilDeb
03-14-2009, 12:09 PM
GoDuke has it correct as well. The calculations were correct - you just attached the wrong names to the stats. Singler is 112/159, Henderson is 116/154.

I should have known that Duke would not have an error in their stats. Thanks, CDu, for pointing this out. I appreciate your gentle correction!

And I know that we are both yelling GO DUKE!!!! today.

CDu
03-14-2009, 12:16 PM
I should have known that Duke would not have an error in their stats. Thanks, CDu, for pointing this out. I appreciate your gentle correction!

And I know that we are both yelling GO DUKE!!!! today.

Sorry to point it out - I just remember the announcers discussing the fact that Singler has been mediocre from the line this year at 70%, which triggered the thought.

As for the last part, you are absolutely correct. I want Duke to make Gary (and Maryland) sweat tomorrow (more than usual) as they await their tourney fate.

OZZIE4DUKE
03-14-2009, 01:08 PM
Laettner missed some free throws at the end of one game his frosh year, and we lost.
That game was against Georgetown up in NY - I think at The Meadowlands but it could have been at the Garden. Former President Richard Nixon, Duke Law grad, was at the game and spoke with Laettner after the game. Nixon told Laettner he would hit those shots next time. Laettner never missed a big shot again, at least not that anyone remembers. But we all remember his 2 miracle big game winners - "Special" against UConn and of course, The Shot against Kentucky! :cool:

roywhite
03-14-2009, 01:17 PM
http://books.google.com/books?id=PmlkVxHLR-gC&pg=PA137&lpg=PA137&dq=Christian+Laettner+Richard+Nixon&source=bl&ots=Iy98Rl8RXx&sig=TU2vKMSgTqPyLHy2I3O28NjOxhY&hl=en&ei=Eea7SY32HIi3twfvws33Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

Actually, the game was against Arizona, as noted in this excerpt from our own Jim Sumner.

Carlos
03-14-2009, 09:24 PM
Looks to me like he says "rainbow"

It's "Rosebud" - he's a big fan of Orson Welles ;)

As for Scheyer, I'm sure that some of our more mathematically proficient posters could work out the formula, but if you're saying that he's shooting 90% with one routine and 50% with the other routine, and overall he's shooting 83%, it would seem that he's not using the flawed routine enough to be a huge deal.

DukeDevilDeb
03-14-2009, 10:04 PM
Sorry to point it out - I just remember the announcers discussing the fact that Singler has been mediocre from the line this year at 70%, which triggered the thought.

As for the last part, you are absolutely correct. I want Duke to make Gary (and Maryland) sweat tomorrow (more than usual) as they await their tourney fate.

And he did... and we did! GO DEVILS!!!!!!!!! Good luck against FSU

Jumbo
03-14-2009, 10:58 PM
Who knows if it his routine, mechanics or whatever, but his clutch ft shooting % is below his season % unfortunately. Doc

Do you actually have numbers that support that assertion?

Deladev
03-15-2009, 12:54 PM
I've been wondering too. Everytime Kyle goes to the line I try to read his
lips---is it Let's Go ?

Deladev
University of WE Care