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View Full Version : MBB: Duke 66, Boston College 65 (ACC Tournament) Post-Game Thread



MulletMan
03-13-2009, 11:42 PM
Deep breaths...

Jumbo
03-13-2009, 11:43 PM
Phew!

_Gary
03-13-2009, 11:44 PM
Phew to say the least!

roywhite
03-13-2009, 11:46 PM
Really good game in the second half.

We made enough key plays to win it. Great game by Kyle!

House G
03-13-2009, 11:46 PM
I would just as soon not play them again.

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-13-2009, 11:46 PM
What a day of great games in The Tournament! A spectacular finish to a full day! The grit and tenacity of this Duke team carried the day.

You know this is the beginning of a series of tough games, the real March Madness.

InSpades
03-13-2009, 11:47 PM
We need to play way better than that, but a win is a win! Great 2nd half from Gerald. Great game from Kyle. I thought we actually played way better on defense as a whole. Elliot was great, McClure had some big plays as well. If we shoot a better at the line we win that one comfortably.

What happened to Paulus? My how he has fallen from being our "leader" in the Miami game. Did he play more than that 1 minute? Not that I really mind, the guys who are playing are playing pretty well. It's just a shame for him, he's a really good kid and sitting for 39 minutes in a game like that has to be tough on him.

walras
03-13-2009, 11:47 PM
Just spilled an Irish and soda all over the wife and dog as I screamed "YES" and jumped off the couch. Will I ever get to sleep? Whew.

bird
03-13-2009, 11:48 PM
KenPom - Duke 7, Wake 17
RPI (Palm) Duke 3, Wake 10
SOS (Palm) - Duke 3, Wake 53
Sagrin - Duke 4, Wake 8

Wake out in the second round, and Duke goes to semis.

I think the SOS and ACC tourney win gives Duke the advantage over Wake.

CameronBornAndBred
03-13-2009, 11:48 PM
WHEW!!! Not very descriptive nor informative, but after that game, it's all I got.
LGD

obsesseddukefan
03-13-2009, 11:48 PM
What a game! But I think when he made that statement at the end of the half, that just lit a fire in us. Now lets shut Vasquez up tomorrow. :D

BlueHeaven
03-13-2009, 11:48 PM
My heart is still pounding...no wonder I grind my teeth. Phew.

jv001
03-13-2009, 11:50 PM
We looked like two different teams in each half. In the first half we looked like it didn't matter. In the 2nd half it looked like it was life or death. Man I hope we come out strong tomorrow. Go Duke!

DukeUsul
03-13-2009, 11:50 PM
Let's get the guys out there to shoot some FTs tomorrow. It's been a while since we shot in such a large statdium and we didn't have the extra day to practice in Atlanta. Hopefully we can get used to the backdrop.

Jumbo
03-13-2009, 11:50 PM
KenPom - Duke 7, Wake 17
RPI (Palm) Duke 3, Wake 10
SOS (Palm) - Duke 3, Wake 53
Sagrin - Duke 4, Wake 8

Wake out in the second round, and Duke goes to semis.

I think the SOS and ACC tourney win gives Duke the advantage over Wake.

I'd rather talk about the game here and seeding elsewhere, but why do you want to go to Greensboro with 10,000+ UNC fans? I'd much rather have, say, Philly.

I'm happy that Duke won. Where Duke might play in the NCAA Tourney has nothing to do with that. We're trying to win a conference title here. These games matter.

quickgtp
03-13-2009, 11:50 PM
I don't know about you all, but I am on serious basketball overload. Another two days of this? AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

roywhite
03-13-2009, 11:51 PM
What a game! But I think when he made that statement at the end of the half, that just lit a fire in us. Now lets shut Vasquez up tomorrow. :D

Certainly have to respect Rice's ability, but he's one of those guys you kind of enjoy beating. :)

dukelifer
03-13-2009, 11:51 PM
This is March basketball folks. Just doesn't seem to matter who plays- the games all come down to the last minute or last possession. I thought Duke was going to open up a big lead when up by 8 and Henderson was at the line. BC looked very tired and had several to's in a row- but Duke did not take advantage But give BC credit - they hit some very tough shots and got it close again. The free throw shooting needs to be better in March- because every possession matters. But you had to love Henderson's last shot to give Duke the lead. Duke handled the end of the game well and showed the maturity of this team. I expect Duke will play better tomorrow. Sometimes you need a close one to wake you up. Duke could have lost- but they didn't- and they move on. Singler did everything tonight- and many of his best plays were on the defensive end. The guy has a great mind for basketball. You have to wonder if Smith's concussion affected his eyesight. He moved well but he missed some easy shots. But still- Duke needed him when G was in foul trouble. Hopefully he gets some more time against MD.

Duke matches up well against Maryland- but its is not easy to beat a team three times. Should be interesting.

dukefanSD
03-13-2009, 11:53 PM
I love this team. I just about lost it. I'm glad the Upset Fairy was up REALLY late last night and left today alone. I hope she shows up for the FSU game tomorrow.:D

Dukefan4Life
03-13-2009, 11:54 PM
Ill be honest. we got lucky to win this game...I dont know what hell is going on with us! there was a time when i didnt sweat first rounds of the acc and the ncaa!! we have to play better

BlueintheFace
03-13-2009, 11:54 PM
When was the last time I didn't say "gutsy win"?? I guess it is better than gutsy loss. Can we just blow out Md for my nerves.... please.

Singler had a great game.

Once we opened up the baseline for G instead of sending a man to that corner, he got going.

E-Will played great D on Rice all game long, and the D on the inbounds play was awesome. I saw G in the huddle before that play and knew we would get the stop.

Two thoughts:

1) Jon has really struggled of late with his ft. G had a tough time too. Nothing that can't be fixed.... I hope.

2) I wish we posted G more like the game winning shot.

karmacoma
03-13-2009, 11:54 PM
A couple weeks back, I commented that the Maryland win on the road was the most satisfying W of the season. This has to be the least satisfying. 40 minutes from Singler and 39 from Scheyer in a three-day tournament? Very few contributions from anyone other than the big 3? Barely a seven-man rotation? Terrible free-throw shooting down the stretch? Giving up umpteen second-chance points? These are not harbingers of a deep March run.

On the plus side, the defense was stout all game long. Still, all that work only pays off if the defensive rebounding comes up big, and it didn't tonight.

Let's go Devils, let's POUND the Terps tomorrow!

Jumbo
03-13-2009, 11:54 PM
The people who were saying that the team "didn't show up" and such were foolish. The team showed up. The first half wasn't about effort (after all, we played terrific D). It was about execution, maybe a bit of rust and a dose of shooting in a dome.

In the second half, we executed much better. The effort was still strong. The defense, unfortunately, was not as good. Granted, BC hit a couple of ridiculous shots, got a couple of ridiculous bounces on loose balls, and got a couple of gifts on the offensive boards. But we didn't defend with the same ability. None of that has to do with "not showing up." I can't believe Scheyer missed that FT, but in the end, it gave us another chance to hold strong on defense, and those last stops are confidence-builders.

I wonder if K was limiting Nolan's minutes, because I thought he played quite well (except for the missed layup) and could have played more in the second half. And to the poster who wondered why Paulus didn't play more than a minute, that's why. Nolan was back. Paulus had his chance, and the team didn't play well when he started. At this point, we have a solid eight-man rotation without him. The other guards are just superior players. It's sad for him, but true.

loran16
03-13-2009, 11:55 PM
Of Note, Smith looked a lot better than he had in the few games pre-concussion, but seemed slightly overeager.

His miss on the easy breakaway lay-in led to BC's huge run at the end of the first half.

Ah well, good to see him seem all right.

miramar
03-13-2009, 11:55 PM
I don't understand Kyle Singler at all. I also put on 20 pounds, but I didn't get better at anything.

So of course at that point I decided to double down and put on 40, but I still haven't improved. I guess I'll have to keep at it...

MulletMan
03-13-2009, 11:55 PM
Ill be honest. we got lucky to win this game...I dont know what hell is going on with us! there was a time when i didnt sweat first rounds of the acc and the ncaa!! we have to play better

Yeah... that was back when there was much less parity in the ACC and college basketball in general. It was also when people didn't develop thier 3 point shot as mich so it wasn't as easy to get back into games when you were down 8 or 9 points.

roywhite
03-13-2009, 11:55 PM
After BC scored on several possessions to get back into it, Duke played very good defense on the last two possessions in the last minute. Got the steal off the inbounds pass on a great play by Kyle, and then didn't give BC much of a look at the end.

DevilYouthCoach
03-13-2009, 11:56 PM
I think Coach K made a calculated gamble bringing the team late to Atlanta, which gave them rest but not much shooting practice, and it paid off! Like it usually does with Coach K. I am, therefore, expecting them to shoot really well tomorrow and bury the Terps.

mgtr
03-13-2009, 11:56 PM
What a great win! Happy to see Smith back, but have to love Williams and his defense. Singler, according to one poster, is iron. I think more like titanium, or carbon fiber. What a guy. Williams needs to shoot a little more, then we could have four cylinder engine!

Devil in the Blue Dress
03-13-2009, 11:57 PM
This is March basketball folks. Just doesn't seem to matter who plays- the games all come down to the last minute or last possession. I thought Duke was going to open up a big lead when up by 8 and Henderson was at the line. BC looked very tired and had several to's in a row- but Duke did not take advantage But give BC credit - they hit some very tough shots and got it close again. The free throw shooting needs to be better in March- because every possession matters. But you had to love Henderson's last shot to give Duke the lead. Duke handled the end of the game well and showed the maturity of this team. I expect Duke will play better tomorrow. Sometimes you need a close one to wake you up. Duke could have lost- but they didn't- and they move on. Singler did everything tonight- and many of his best plays were on the defensive end. The guy has a great mind for basketball. You have to wonder if Smith's concussion affected his eyesight. He moved well but he missed some easy shots. But still- Duke needed him when G was in foul trouble. Hopefully he gets some more time against MD.

Duke matches up well against Maryland- but its is not easy to beat a team three times. Should be interesting.
Maryland will be playing game number three in three days tomorrow. Fatigue may begin to be a factor them. They'll need lots of energy to play at the pace needed to beat Duke.

Highlander
03-13-2009, 11:58 PM
Defense looked a lot better on the whole, as we held BC under 70 points. Offense in the first half was not great, and G getting 2 fouls less than a minute in really knocked us off our stride. Our turnovers in the first half (I think we had 8) resulted in 12 or 14 BC points, and we were down at the half. Kyle Singler was the only part of our offense clicking in the first half.

Second half G and Jon got going as well. Singler tied his career high in points and had a career high in blocks (6) as well. McClure's block was my favorite play of the game, just b/c it came out of nowhere. Biggest stat was we were 6-7 from 3pt land in the second half after going 2-11 in the first.

My biggest worry is our Free Throw shooting. Missing clutch free throws isn't a new thing for this team, and so far it hasn't bitten us. Tonight was the closest we've come, however. We shot 59% from the line for the game, and that's not going to get it done. Gerald had a particularly bad night as he missed 5, and both Kyle and Jon missed key ones down the stretch.

Time to move on though. Next game vs. Maryland. I doubt General Grevious fouls out of this one, and we'll need to continue to play tough defense in order to win. It's always tough to beat somebody 3 times in a season, especially a rival.

mgtr
03-13-2009, 11:58 PM
I don't understand Kyle Singler at all. I also put on 20 pounds, but I didn't get better at anything.

I will second that -- all I got was a lot of criticism from my wife!

karmacoma
03-13-2009, 11:58 PM
I don't understand Kyle Singler at all. I also put on 20 pounds, but I didn't get better at anything.

So of course at that point I decided to double down and put on 40, but I still haven't improved. I guess I'll have to keep at it...

Outstanding, thanks for the late-night chuckle. I resemble that statement.

devildownunder
03-14-2009, 12:00 AM
This was my first chance to sit and watch all (or almost all anyway) of a game from start to finish in a while. It's tough following college bball from Oz, let me tell ya. Anyway, love Ewill brings to the lineup. Love Singler's energy holding up. Scheyer is great at the point in terms of not committing turnovers. He could use some polish with decision-making on the break, however. G is the man. Loved this win. Looking forward to battling the Terps tomorrow.

And last, here's to the team of the decade! Tonight's win gives the Blue Devils more victories than any other team in division one for the first decade of the 21st century!

roywhite
03-14-2009, 12:00 AM
A couple weeks back, I commented that the Maryland win on the road was the most satisfying W of the season. This has to be the least satisfying. 40 minutes from Singler and 39 from Scheyer in a three-day tournament? Very few contributions from anyone other than the big 3? Barely a seven-man rotation? Terrible free-throw shooting down the stretch? Giving up umpteen second-chance points? These are not harbingers of a deep March run.



"Harbingers"? Like UCon had, or Pitt had, or what almost happened to UNC?

Even the top teams are playing very, very capable teams in their conference quarter-finals!

This was a clutch win!

_Gary
03-14-2009, 12:01 AM
The first half pretty much was what it was - a disaster. Big shift in momentum after the Nolan miss on the breakaway. We go from being up by 10 to seeing them go on a huge run.

Second half offense was so much better, and a lot of that obviously had to do with shooting the 3 so well.

Second half defense was the key. We did pretty good up through the first 10 minutes of the 2nd half. Then it seemed like we really ratcheted up the D over the next 5 or 6 minutes (from about the 10 minute point to the 4 minute point). We had several spectacular blocks from Dave and Kyle and some solid rebounding. Then, all of a sudden, we couldn't get a stop until the very end of the game. I kept track, and in that last 4 minutes BC went on a run where they scored on 7 straight possessions and 8 out of 9. That's scary! But we got the final 2 stops of the game and we were able to squeak by.

Obviously free throws were really bad. Missed several front ends in both halves that could have increased the lead at different points. Almost cost us. Let's hope that aspect of our game gets much better as we move forward.

InSpades
03-14-2009, 12:03 AM
And to the poster who wondered why Paulus didn't play more than a minute, that's why. Nolan was back. Paulus had his chance, and the team didn't play well when he started. At this point, we have a solid eight-man rotation without him. The other guards are just superior players. It's sad for him, but true.

I wasn't really wondering, I said the very same thing. Paulus barely played against UNC when Nolan was hurt. He's just not as effective as the other guards.

I'm still mad at K for sitting Gerald for 15 minutes in the 1st half. I think it was a big part of our 1st half problems. Gerald ended the game with 3 fouls. Why did he have to sit for 15 minutes? He averages less than 2 fouls per game (and I'd bet half of them are offensive). If G plays more in the 1st half I think it's a very different game. He did a great job in the 2nd half of forcing BC to foul him. We also could have used him rebounding as we often found our guards trying to box out their big men (which is a lot easier when you can jump out of the building).

BlueintheFace
03-14-2009, 12:05 AM
I wasn't really wondering, I said the very same thing. Paulus barely played against UNC when Nolan was hurt. He's just not as effective as the other guards.

I'm still mad at K for sitting Gerald for 15 minutes in the 1st half. I think it was a big part of our 1st half problems. Gerald ended the game with 3 fouls. Why did he have to sit for 15 minutes? He averages less than 2 fouls per game (and I'd bet half of them are offensive). If G plays more in the 1st half I think it's a very different game. He did a great job in the 2nd half of forcing BC to foul him. We also could have used him rebounding as we often found our guards trying to box out their big men (which is a lot easier when you can jump out of the building).

cause if he had gotten a third, he would be on the bench or ineffective until about the 10 minute mark of the 2nd half or later. It was the right decision.

jv001
03-14-2009, 12:06 AM
I look for a little more from our bench tomorrow. Zoubs has played pretty well against the twerps and I wouldn't be surprised to see him get more mins. Nolan played well today. He just looked like he does not have game speed back yet which is understandable. Dave played a good game as well. I look for the team to play very well tomorrow. Go Duke!

karmacoma
03-14-2009, 12:09 AM
"Harbingers"? Like UCon had, or Pitt had, or what almost happened to UNC?

Even the top teams are playing very, very capable teams in their conference quarter-finals!

This was a clutch win!

The tourney will be wide open, I'll give you that. I can't imagine all four #1 seeds will meet in the Final Four again this year. Anyone can beat anyone.

But I'm not talking about single games, I'm talking about the ability of this team to win 4 or more consecutive games relying too heavily on too few. For my money, those missed free-throws at the end of the game were all about fatigue, and I don't see that getting any better.

Look, I'm going to pull like crazy for our guys. Like the other 64 teams, they'll have, in theory, as good a chance as any. I just think a deep run will require more from the supporting players than we saw tonight.

mr. synellinden
03-14-2009, 12:10 AM
That's all that March is about. Win and you keep playing.

The difference in the second half was making 7 of 8 three pointers. That being said, during the last five minutes, we started to stand around a bit and watch Henderson who had some forced possessions and we settled for outside shots, when we had a lead and they were over the limit. In those situations you have to put pressure on the defense by taking it inside and forcing them to foul or give a close shot. That's exactly what K drew up on the last possession. As someone else said, I don't know why we don't run offensive sets like that more often.

Exhale.

Survive and advance.

Oh, and 6 blocks for Singler? He had a Battier-esque game.

roywhite
03-14-2009, 12:12 AM
Biko Paris---you can wake up now.

InSpades
03-14-2009, 12:13 AM
cause if he had gotten a third, he would be on the bench or ineffective until about the 10 minute mark of the 2nd half or later. It was the right decision.

The same could be said no matter when you bring him in. If you sit him most of the 1st half and he gets an early foul in the 2nd half then what? You sit him until 10 minutes left in the 2nd half? It's silly. Let him play. Gerald rarely fouls. In 23 of his games this year he has had 2 fouls or less. It's not like he is Hasheem Thabeet who has to block shots and go for offensive rebounds to be effective. He's perfectly capable of being effective and avoiding fouls, he's done it all year (mostly anyway).

rsvman
03-14-2009, 12:13 AM
Sitting Gerald was the right move.

If he had played and picked up another foul, or fouled out of the game, and we had lost, everybody would criticize K for playing him (remember the Final Four game against UConn, anybody?).

I guess if you're a coach, you can't win for losing. Even when the team wins. Sheesh.

Just be happy with a victory in a very hard-fought game that could've gone the other way. My only complaint with the team tonight was free-throw shooting. I've noticed Scheyer missing free throws at the end of games for the past 5 games or so, and Gerald missed a bunch, too. We have to tighten this up.

Otherwise, I thought it was a great game against a very good, well coached team.

karmacoma
03-14-2009, 12:15 AM
Since my last couple of posts dwelled on the negative, here's a big positive IMO -- since the loss at Wake, our in-bounds play defense has gotten much, much better. Tonight, the Scheyer steal was clutch (can't believe he stayed in-bounds!), and we forced BC to start way higher than they wanted to on that last possession.

weezie
03-14-2009, 12:15 AM
Yikes....these games are not good for my beauty sleep. EWill's defense was superb, locked down. Kyle was super snappy, most fantastical with that late 2nd half under-the-defender-toss in.

I also think our team is composed of the best looking guys in the NCAA. BC just looked goofy.

HDB
03-14-2009, 12:16 AM
or did BC get more than their fair share of fortunate bounces and tip balls in that game? There were numerous times that I thought we played great d only to tip the ball to another BC player or straight out of bounds.

Glad we got the W in the end.

CBDUKE
03-14-2009, 12:18 AM
The tourney will be wide open, I'll give you that. I can't imagine all four #1 seeds will meet in the Final Four again this year. Anyone can beat anyone.

But I'm not talking about single games, I'm talking about the ability of this team to win 4 or more consecutive games relying too heavily on too few. For my money, those missed free-throws at the end of the game were all about fatigue, and I don't see that getting any better.

Look, I'm going to pull like crazy for our guys. Like the other 64 teams, they'll have, in theory, as good a chance as any. I just think a deep run will require more from the supporting players than we saw tonight.

Can we give the minutes played a break. We must be the most out of shape team in the country. Three UNC players were in the high 30 minutes and we played the same number of players as they did. What about the Syracuse players, and the won in overtime tonight.

feldspar
03-14-2009, 12:18 AM
IMO, when it's the post-season, I stop worrying about how close wins are, because everyone brings their A-game 40 minutes per game this time of year. Anything can happen, and the only thing that matters at the end of the game is the final score.

We survived this game and will learn from it. Kyle was solid tonight and carried us on his back. The defense got the job done in the last 30 seconds, and that's what is most important for me. Jon's not going to miss clutch free throws like that very often.

Good....no, GREAT win for Duke tonight. I'm proud of this team.

dukelifer
03-14-2009, 12:20 AM
Maryland will be playing game number three in three days tomorrow. Fatigue may begin to be a factor them. They'll need lots of energy to play at the pace needed to beat Duke.

Usually-it sets in during the 4th game- but Duke will try to take advantage.
They also just played a great game- hard to play two of those in a row.

RepoMan
03-14-2009, 12:22 AM
but why do you want to go to Greensboro with 10,000+ UNC fans? I'd much rather have, say, Philly.


At least it ain't Charlotte

Greg_Newton
03-14-2009, 12:22 AM
You have to wonder if Smith's concussion affected his eyesight. He moved well but he missed some easy shots.

Yeah, I hope he's alright. I'll be interested to see how he does tomorrow, because he didn't look like himself today. The layup, the rejected fast break finish, the turnover when he got trapped under BC's basket, the foul on the and-1, he just... well, he looked like someone who was still affected by his recent concussion, and a step slow mentally. He really reminded me of a guy on my old HS team that had to come back from several concussions... you could just tell he was a little off. Nolan about gave me a heart attack when he slammed full speed into the pad under the basket just before halftime.

I also hope that Lance didn't re-aggravate his ankle. When he turned it over at the top of the key and sprinted back to try to strip Trapani's layup, it looked like he came up gimpy. I saw him limping a couple times after that, and he never was quite the active presence he was early in the game when we looked so impressive. I think him playing close to 100% is EXTREMELY important to this team.

E-Will did a phenomenal job on Rice, as (I still maintain) he did on Lawson last game. The cheap fouls continue to plague him, but wow, what a fast-twitch athlete and what energy and in-your-face competitiveness.

And lastly... I hate to keep coming back to the abundance of little opportunities to put teams away that we keep missing, but it's pretty unsettling to watch Syracuse make 20 of their first 22 FTs in OTs 1-6 last night (AFTER their legs had gone through 40 minutes of play) and then watch us make only 13 of 22 FTs throughout the entire game today. Our strengths are supposed to be our poise, shooting and fundamentals...

But hey, it feels great to escape with a tourney win against a very good team when you only played subpar. I bet we'll see some solid intensity tomorrow... as far as poise and shooting, well, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

sagegrouse
03-14-2009, 12:23 AM
Ze Sagegrouse of Routt County, who has probably been overindulging in locoweed, has a few comments on ze game:

1. Henderson started ze game like he was determined to score 80 points, have 25 steals, and 30 blocks. Not surprisingly, he lasted less zan 30 seconds after committing two dumb fouls. Uh, Gerald, be quick, but don't hurry, and play wit-in yourself. You almost cost us ze game.

2. Any team that was truly ready to play would make more zan 60 percent of its FTs. I look for a much better effort tomorrow.

3. Shutdown defense saved our butts in ze last minute and kept us in ze game in ze first half.

4. Or else, Al Skinner hates the ACC tournament and was trying to lose at the end. What ze heck is the explanantion for zree timeouts in the last 30 seconds, except to disrupt his own team and prevent zem from getting a decent shot?

5. You live by ze zree-point shot or you die by ze zree-point shot. In our case, we died in ze first half, but we pulled a Lazarus from ze zree-point line in ze second half.

Sagegrouse
'Seldom right but never in doubt'

InSpades
03-14-2009, 12:24 AM
Sitting Gerald was the right move.

If he had played and picked up another foul, or fouled out of the game, and we had lost, everybody would criticize K for playing him (remember the Final Four game against UConn, anybody?).


I agree. Sitting him is the way to avoid criticism because sitting a player who has 2 early fouls is what is the norm. I also think it hurts your team terribly. Do you honestly think K cares about criticism?

Sitting your best player because he has fouls accomplishes nothing. You sit him so he doesn't foul out? The downside of him fouling out is him sitting! If Gerald is going to foul out in 10 minutes of play then does it really matter if those 10 minutes are in the 1st or 2nd half?

Wake sitting James Johnson possibly cost them the game earlier in the night. Was that the right move? He sat his most effective player more than he needed to and his team fell behind and could never catch up. Maybe if he played a bit more in the 1st half he wouldn't have decided he needed to force up terrible 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Who knows.

robobevan
03-14-2009, 12:26 AM
Why did coach K call time out between gerald's 2 free throws? We were up by eight and things were going our way. We were also close to the under 8 minutes time out.
Also like another poster I noticed how physical we were on the out of bounds play under our basket near the end of the game. Big improvement since that Wake game.
Great win! Go Duke!

ncexnyc
03-14-2009, 12:28 AM
This game so resembled the first game against BC.
We had early control of the game and looked like we would cruise to an easy win. Nolan makes a great steal, but misses a lay-up, back comes BC and bam, four point swing and we've got ourselves a game. Of course Rice finally wakes-up and hits a pair of 3's prior to the end of the half and low and behold, BC is up by 7.

Everyone on Duke finally gets it going, the 3's start falling and the D gets us a few easy baskets and suddenly we're pulling away, but wait BC does it's best Dracula imitation and rises from the dead with the help of some sorry free throw shooting by Duke.

These kids really love gutting out these close games. I wonder if they get a cut from Duke Medical for all the cardiac patients that have been coming there way these past few weeks.

Let's do better at the charity stripe and let's stop giving up these dumb fouls after we play close to 30 seconds of stellar defense.

Nolan looked pretty good in his first game back and should see more time over the next few games.

Greg appears to be the odd man out, but that doesn't surprise me.

Brian had some interesting moments and maybe we'll see more of him against the twerps.

David looked better tonight and hopefully he's back to being out of his funk.

But most of all let's keep G from collecting 2 quick fouls in less than a minute of play.

And speaking of fouls, the officiating of this game was rather strange. It seemed they were calling lots of ticky tack fouls at the start of the game, but later they let the game get very physical.

mgtr
03-14-2009, 12:28 AM
I was not aware that they talked that funny way in Colorado, but it is late, and I am aware of less and less as the liquor flows. But we won!

RepoMan
03-14-2009, 12:30 AM
Yeah, I hope he's alright. I'll be interested to see how he does tomorrow, because he didn't look like himself today.
. . .
But hey, it feels great to escape with a tourney win against a very good team when you only played subpar. I bet we'll see some solid intensity tomorrow... as far as poise and shooting, well, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I couldn't disagree more with your post, but I will focus on two comment in particular:

1. I thought Nolan looked great. Sure, he missed the layup, but, for the most part, he looked better than he had been playing in the two weeks prior to the concussion. I am super optimistic about Duke's chances based on what we saw from Nolan

2. I thought we played very well, not subpar. Sure, we can play better, but, for the most part, we played a solid game. Kyle was excellent. G played through a wierd foul game. Scheyer was solid. E played good D. Dave was great. He seemed to be back in form. Defense was really good. really, I just feel great.


Fear the turtle my a*s

COYS
03-14-2009, 12:30 AM
I agree. Sitting him is the way to avoid criticism because sitting a player who has 2 early fouls is what is the norm. I also think it hurts your team terribly. Do you honestly think K cares about criticism?

Sitting your best player because he has fouls accomplishes nothing. You sit him so he doesn't foul out? The downside of him fouling out is him sitting! If Gerald is going to foul out in 10 minutes of play then does it really matter if those 10 minutes are in the 1st or 2nd half?

Wake sitting James Johnson possibly cost them the game earlier in the night. Was that the right move? He sat his most effective player more than he needed to and his team fell behind and could never catch up. Maybe if he played a bit more in the 1st half he wouldn't have decided he needed to force up terrible 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Who knows.

Gerald sitting wasn't the only reason for our offensive woes in the first half. Quite frankly, the team should have executed better on offense throughout the first half, with or without him there. Our defense was still stellar and it made the decision to sit G a little easier. Any such decision is certainly debatable, but I'm not sure it was clearly a bad decision. With better free throw shooting we would have won this game by a comfortable enough margin that most people would probably have forgotten that G hardly played in the first half.

karmacoma
03-14-2009, 12:32 AM
Can we give the minutes played a break. We must be the most out of shape team in the country. Three UNC players were in the high 30 minutes and we played the same number of players as they did. What about the Syracuse players, and the won in overtime tonight.

I agree, the "Coach K never develops his bench" meme is overdone. It's not just the minutes -- although again, I think they contribute to missed FT's down-the-stretch. It's also about the burden on the Big 3 to generate virtually all of our scoring. Balance and bench productivity matter in March.

I don't think what I'm saying is all that controversial -- consider the first half, when we seemed lost offensively w/o Gerald on the court with his early foul trouble. I'm sure somebody will...maybe Nolan, as he gets his legs back.

Billy Dat
03-14-2009, 12:32 AM
I actually thought we played really well when G was out in the first half. I don't have the stats in front of me, but as soon as he went out we built a nice lead. I think he was in when they erased the lead and went up by 7 at the half. When Nolan replaced him, as others have said, Nolan played real well.

While they certainly got some bounces, we gave up a lot of very timely second chance points in the second half. The good news is that we weren't giving up "and-1" 3 point plays on a lot of those lay-ups. I didn't feel McClure's presence on the boards as much as usual, it felt like Kyle one-on-five a lot.

I feel like Elliot needs to be more aggressive on offense, specifically in taking the ball to the hole. I don't want him jacking up a lot of 15 foot and out stuff, but good things happen when he puts pressure on the defense with his drives.

Finally, the best for last...I haven't looked at the MOTM thread yet, but Singler was magnificent...the points, the shooting %, the rebounds...THE BLOCKS! It felt like the Landlord was back for a game!

Survive and advance...thanks for giving me a game to watch tomorrow, boys!

BlueintheFace
03-14-2009, 12:33 AM
I agree. Sitting him is the way to avoid criticism because sitting a player who has 2 early fouls is what is the norm. I also think it hurts your team terribly. Do you honestly think K cares about criticism?

Sitting your best player because he has fouls accomplishes nothing. You sit him so he doesn't foul out? The downside of him fouling out is him sitting! If Gerald is going to foul out in 10 minutes of play then does it really matter if those 10 minutes are in the 1st or 2nd half?

Wake sitting James Johnson possibly cost them the game earlier in the night. Was that the right move? He sat his most effective player more than he needed to and his team fell behind and could never catch up. Maybe if he played a bit more in the 1st half he wouldn't have decided he needed to force up terrible 3-pointers in the 2nd half. Who knows.

It's not like this coaching move is an established standard in basketball for no reason.... the risks are too high and the potential reward uncertain. 10 out of 10 coaches would manage G as K did.

Plus, G would have become a target on the defensive end. What if he got a third foul in the next two minutes? Then no G for 17 of the first 20 minutes and he would have started the 2nd half already worried about a 4th! Now, THAT, might have really hurt us.

77devil
03-14-2009, 12:34 AM
KenPom - Duke 7, Wake 17
RPI (Palm) Duke 3, Wake 10
SOS (Palm) - Duke 3, Wake 53
Sagrin - Duke 4, Wake 8

Wake out in the second round, and Duke goes to semis.

I think the SOS and ACC tourney win gives Duke the advantage over Wake.

Be careful what you wish for. Duke would be better off in Philadelphia sans the UNC hoard than Greensboro IMO.

superdave
03-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Some thoughts -

To be honest guys, my heart beat faster when I started reading the boards AFTER the game. During, the game, I was confident in our guys. However, I am not confident in our fans. To quote Cusack - "You MUST chill."

Agree that Biko is waking up right about now.

Free throws, free throws. Lawdy, free throws.

Remember when Calhoun sat Emeka in 2004 with 2 fouls early in first half, then he ruled the second half and then...argh....and then...$%^&*....son of a.....

Kyle, in my humble estimation, played his best game at Duke. The other outstanding game was Feb 2008 in Chapel Hill against those moth-breathing, knuckle-dragging yokels.

Kyle grabbed lots of clutch rebounds, blocked 6 shots, was efficient offensively, made innumerable huge plays on D such as pushing his guy away from blocks and altering shots and poking balls away. Whew. Someone said Battier-esque. About right.

Lord Ash
03-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Great game. Survive and advance. Kyle looked great; he and Jon have about the best noses for the ball that I can remember, and I love that Kyle rarely brings the ball down... wish Brian could pick up more of that. If Gerald had thrown down that one dunk it would have brought the roof down:) Email did a great defensive job, but he still plays a bit rushed and outside of himself with the ball. Finally... in that Coach Cam, did anyone notice Al Skinner's strange mouth tic? It is like the old Hollywood trick of giving a horse an apple to chew so they look like they are talking... he just chews constantly!:)

Anyway... good game. Can't wait to beat Maryland for a third time.

Tournament time rocks:)

BlueintheFace
03-14-2009, 12:35 AM
Be careful what you wish for. Duke would be better off in Philadelphia sans the UNC hoard than Greensboro IMO.

what would happen if we could requested it... If top teams could request their region on Sunday in order of the selection committee's rankings.

moonpie23
03-14-2009, 12:35 AM
awesome game and a smile from the godz of BB for duke..


hope they get in the flow better tomorrow...


god duke...

Kedsy
03-14-2009, 12:36 AM
Time to move on though. Next game vs. Maryland. I doubt General Grevious fouls out of this one, and we'll need to continue to play tough defense in order to win. It's always tough to beat somebody 3 times in a season, especially a rival.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we're playing a rival tomorrow.

Greg_Newton
03-14-2009, 12:37 AM
Couple notes on K's all-out assault on Gerald Henderson... shooting a FT midway through the 2nd half with an 8-pt lead isn't a high-pressure situation, so it's not exactly "icing". I doubt his heart was racing during that timeout thinking about his upcoming free throw.

Also, did I miss something? We were playing phenomenal with him out of the lineup for the first 10 minutes. If your current players are keeping BC on track to finish with a grand total of 10 points in the game, there is no reason to gamble by putting in your star with two fouls. I also remember several games earlier this season when he tentatively played G with 2-3 fouls and he picked up another, so he's not exactly a master of playing with fouls.

BlueintheFace
03-14-2009, 12:38 AM
Kyle was 10-15, 9 rebounds, and 6 blocks!!! 6!!! The kid is awesome.

karmacoma
03-14-2009, 12:42 AM
Couple notes on K's all-out assault on Gerald Henderson... shooting a FT midway through the 2nd half with an 8-pt lead isn't a high-pressure situation, so it's not exactly "icing". I doubt his heart was racing during that timeout thinking about his upcoming free throw.

Also, did I miss something? We were playing phenomenal with him out of the lineup for the first 10 minutes. If your current players are keeping BC on track to finish with a grand total of 10 points in the game, there is no reason to gamble by putting in your star with two fouls. I also remember several games earlier this season when he tentatively played G with 2-3 fouls and he picked up another, so he's not exactly a master of playing with fouls.

I think it's possible for both sides of this argument to be "right." Protecting G from the third foul is mandatory, and defensively, you could argue having both Nolan and Elliot out there together upgraded the ball pressure. But not having him out there hurt our offensive productivity -- a perfect segue to the point I've been making (ineffectively and unpersuasively, I might add) in this thread. Messrs. Nolan, Williams and Thomas -- let's see the offense, gentlemen!

superdave
03-14-2009, 12:44 AM
McClure played exceptionally tonight. So much for the slump he was in after and including the flu. Big rebounds, opportunistic D. We can use that every game.

Nolan was off to a good start tonight. A little better tomorrow and the next day, and he will be at top peaknicity.

Beatng Maryland three times will be tough. We are Gary Williams Super Bowl, his Great White Whale. His whatnot and his whathaveyou. But we are a lot better than them. I want to see big, meaningful, shot-block-filled minutes out of Z.

I am having trouble going to sleep...fraid I might miss something.

roywhite
03-14-2009, 12:49 AM
I think it's possible for both sides of this argument to be "right." Protecting G from the third foul is mandatory, and defensively, you could argue having both Nolan and Elliot out there together upgraded the ball pressure. But not having him out there hurt our offensive productivity -- a perfect segue to the point I've been making (ineffectively and unpersuasively, I might add) in this thread. Messrs. Nolan, Williams and Thomas -- let's see the offense, gentlemen!

Good effort on your attempts to persuade us that G should have played more in the 1st half with 2 fouls, but, no, I'm not buying it. I do, however, wholeheartedly agree that we need more guys chipping in on the scoring.

In fact, the flaw that I fear is fatal is the lack of a good scorer off the bench.

NYC Duke Fan
03-14-2009, 12:54 AM
I was going to post this before the game but got tied up in other activities.

The line in Today's New York Post was Duke 15 1/2 points over BC.

How in God's name did they ever come up with that idiocy ?

Kedsy
03-14-2009, 12:54 AM
For my money, those missed free-throws at the end of the game were all about fatigue, and I don't see that getting any better.

Except only two missed free throws came at the end of the game. Four of G's missed free throws came in the middle of the 2nd half and the other came at the beginning of the 1st half. And he hardly played in the first half anyway, so there's no way his misses were the result of fatigue.

If you take away G's missing 4 of 5 in the middle of the 2nd half then we shot over 70% free throws for the game. This should be a non-issue. It seemed a lot worse than it was.

devildownunder
03-14-2009, 01:00 AM
It's not like this coaching move is an established standard in basketball for no reason.... the risks are too high and the potential reward uncertain. 10 out of 10 coaches would manage G as K did.

Plus, G would have become a target on the defensive end. What if he got a third foul in the next two minutes? Then no G for 17 of the first 20 minutes and he would have started the 2nd half already worried about a 4th! Now, THAT, might have really hurt us.

Nevermind being open to criticism, this was the right move. If you leave G in, the odds are very high that he will collect a 3rd foul relatively early in the game and not only risk becoming disqualified at some point, but also become very tentative and much less effective while he's in there.

devildownunder
03-14-2009, 01:02 AM
I couldn't disagree more with your post, but I will focus on two comment in particular:

1. I thought Nolan looked great. Sure, he missed the layup, but, for the most part, he looked better than he had been playing in the two weeks prior to the concussion. I am super optimistic about Duke's chances based on what we saw from Nolan

2. I thought we played very well, not subpar. Sure, we can play better, but, for the most part, we played a solid game. Kyle was excellent. G played through a wierd foul game. Scheyer was solid. E played good D. Dave was great. He seemed to be back in form. Defense was really good. really, I just feel great.


Fear the turtle my a*s

I thought we played well defensively throughout but offensively we did not play well in the first half. We scored just 22 points. G or not, 22 points in a half is unacceptable.

gumbomoop
03-14-2009, 01:02 AM
I thought it was a great game against a very good, well coached team.

Amen. Like virtually all posters here, I really only care about Duke, but also like virtually all others, I admire other teams and even a few coaches. I don't know a lot about Skinner or the academic qualifications of his players, but he deserved a close-second for ACC COY. His teams are consistently tough, tough. His offensive system is interesting to watch, and I'd think difficult to defend, so hats off to Duke, with a sincere tip of the cap to Skinner and BC. Could've gone either way.

InSpades
03-14-2009, 01:09 AM
It's not like this coaching move is an established standard in basketball for no reason.... the risks are too high and the potential reward uncertain. 10 out of 10 coaches would manage G as K did.

Plus, G would have become a target on the defensive end. What if he got a third foul in the next two minutes? Then no G for 17 of the first 20 minutes and he would have started the 2nd half already worried about a 4th! Now, THAT, might have really hurt us.

The risk of sitting him is certain though. You aren't going to do as well w/out your best player on the floor. The risk of him getting a foul still exists when you bring him in later and isn't a certainty by any means. He averages less than 2 fouls per game.

Jumbo
03-14-2009, 01:09 AM
Yikes....these games are not good for my beauty sleep. EWill's defense was superb, locked down. Kyle was super snappy, most fantastical with that late 2nd half under-the-defender-toss in.

I also think our team is composed of the best looking guys in the NCAA. BC just looked goofy.

E-Will is getting a lot of love for his D, but he has to use his hands less. He's committing too many fouls too far away from the hoop -- the one on Rice around the arc with five seconds left on the shot clock was particularly bad.

I thought Nolan Smith played very, very well on D. In fact, I thought he looked terrific, given all the time he has missed. He was rusty (see his missed layup), but hopefully he can work that out. With Scheyer running the point, I can see Smith playing more relaxed and becoming a strong offensive option beyond the top three guys going forward. I'll have no problem with his stealing back some of those minutes from Williams.

On a totally separate note, I wish this team recognized mismatches better, and that includes K. Thank goodness he ran that final play for G in the post. Because time and again, he called plays for G on the wing with Rice or Paris on him. And he had a huge size/strength/hops advantage over both guys. We should have posted him more. Ditto Scheyer. And we missed a number of guys off switches. At one point, Thomas had Rice sealed in the middle of the lane, and Williams (I think) didn't see him/didn't get him the ball. Compare that to the one time Duke recognized that, when Singler had a smaller guy on him off a switch and Scheyer lobbed him the ball for an easy basket.

BlueintheFace
03-14-2009, 01:13 AM
I thought Nolan Smith played very, very well on D. In fact, I thought he looked terrific, given all the time he has missed. He was rusty (see his missed layup), but hopefully he can work that out. With Scheyer running the point, I can see Smith playing more relaxed and becoming a strong offensive option beyond the top three guys going forward. I'll have no problem with his stealing back some of those minutes from Williams.

Yah, he played good D. Normally he is just as bad as E-will with the hands, but he did a great job today. I thought we would see more of him though.... I wonder why we didn't? Health?

Bob Green
03-14-2009, 01:19 AM
I thought we would see more of him though.... I wonder why we didn't? Health?

It was his first game back after a concussion and bruised ribs. He played as many minutes as I expected he would. He will probably play more tomorrow and then more on Sunday (Monday for me). I'm not suprised Coach K is bring him back into the rotation slowly.

Jumbo
03-14-2009, 01:21 AM
It's not like this coaching move is an established standard in basketball for no reason.... the risks are too high and the potential reward uncertain. 10 out of 10 coaches would manage G as K did.

K has often managed it differently. Shelden had 2 fouls in the first half against UConn in the 2004 FF, for instance. So did Okafor. Calhoun sat Okafor. K played Shel. Duke built a lead it should have been able to protect even without Shel and Shav (who fouled out) in the final couple of minutes. You might never get back all the minutes you lose by sitting a guy for 15 minutes in the first half. You're basically saying that having him for, say, the last 5 minutes of the game is more important than for almost half the game. K usually has disagreed with that strategy. So do a lot of coaches.

Greg_Newton
03-14-2009, 01:24 AM
I couldn't disagree more with your post, but I will focus on two comment in particular:

1. I thought Nolan looked great. Sure, he missed the layup, but, for the most part, he looked better than he had been playing in the two weeks prior to the concussion.

I reread my post and I think my tone here was harsher than I intended. I absolutely love the kid and he played his heart out while he was in, and physically he looked great. However, I absolutely do not think he was quite 100% over the concussion. There were more than a few strange little instances (several that I cited earlier) where he looked momentarily lost and not like himself. Great on-ball D, but I think he'll become MUCH more effective offensively as he continues to get back into the swing of things. Today he was 1 for 5, 3 points, 1 assist, 1 TO. If you think that's the best we'll see out of him this year, I'm pretty sure you will be pleasantly surprised.


2. I thought we played very well, not subpar.

Really? If that last second 3 had gone, I think we would be hearing a much different tone tonight. Don't get me wrong, in public I'm an all-out homer, but seeing as healthy discussion is what this board is for:

Post game, G himself said almost word for word that this was a subpar effort. Even besides the Nolan debate, we shot under 60% free throws, did not get nearly as much from Thomas as he is capable of when healthy, G never got into any rhythm, we had a million unlucky little calls and bounces, our late second-half defense was nonexistent until we came up huge at the end... if Kyle hadn't had an All-American performance, I doubt it even comes down to that last shot.

I'm ecstatic that we got a win, and I am not knocking our effort level. That said, this overall performance was nowhere near this team's potential. This is a GOOD thing - it means that there is significant room for improvement going into and during the NCAA tournament for a team that is already very good.



Fear the turtle my a*s

I'm afraid I can't argue with you there. Sorry...

wisteria
03-14-2009, 01:31 AM
guys, help me out here. What does Rice mean when he said "we ain't playing no more". I guess I understand what this sentence literally means. But I just don't understand what he's trying to say. Sorry, English isn't my first language.

pfrduke
03-14-2009, 01:32 AM
K has often managed it differently. Shelden had 2 fouls in the first half against UConn in the 2004 FF, for instance. So did Okafor. Calhoun sat Okafor. K played Shel. Duke built a lead it should have been able to protect even without Shel and Shav (who fouled out) in the final couple of minutes. You might never get back all the minutes you lose by sitting a guy for 15 minutes in the first half. You're basically saying that having him for, say, the last 5 minutes of the game is more important than for almost half the game. K usually has disagreed with that strategy. So do a lot of coaches.

Right. It's balancing uncertainty (will he get fouls, depriving him of end of game minutes?) against certainty (he will sit on the bench, depriving him of current minutes). The other part of the equation is the style of play part - will Henderson reduce his aggressiveness if he's in the game with 2 fouls and 38 minutes still to go, making him at least a defensive liability, and possibly offensive as well.

I did think K was a little too conservative with him. I think the same could be said about Greenberg's use of Vassallo earlier in the day, and Gaudio's use of Johnson. The reflexiveness of "2 first half fouls = bench" is far from the right move in all circumstances.

heyman25
03-14-2009, 01:33 AM
I am glad to get the win. Boston College was a tough opponent,but in the NCAA tourney we had better play better than this. If we rely on Kyle or Gerald to carry the team we will not get a deep run. Our defense was solid but our half court offense was for most of the game ugly to watch.Survive and advance is better than losing. When we had the early lead we could have stepped on the accelerator, but we stalled and finished the 1st half in an awful way.

pfrduke
03-14-2009, 01:34 AM
guys, help me out here. What does Rice mean when he said "we ain't playing no more". I guess I understand what this sentence literally means. But I just don't understand what he's trying to say. Sorry, English isn't my first language.

I think it's supposed to be something along the lines of "we ain't playing around no more," suggesting that BC was going to start taking the game seriously. Which is an odd thing to say at the end of the first half for a whole host of reasons.

Bob Green
03-14-2009, 01:34 AM
guys, help me out here. What does Rice mean when he said "we ain't playing no more".

He is saying, "It is time to get serious." Your English is outstanding!

BlueintheFace
03-14-2009, 01:35 AM
K has often managed it differently. Shelden had 2 fouls in the first half against UConn in the 2004 FF, for instance. So did Okafor. Calhoun sat Okafor. K played Shel. Duke built a lead it should have been able to protect even without Shel and Shav (who fouled out) in the final couple of minutes. You might never get back all the minutes you lose by sitting a guy for 15 minutes in the first half. You're basically saying that having him for, say, the last 5 minutes of the game is more important than for almost half the game. K usually has disagreed with that strategy. So do a lot of coaches.

Frankly, I don't think the situations are that similar. Gerald is a good defender, but I (and obviously K) don't have the same trust in him to not pick up that next foul. I disagree with your statement "K usually has disagree with that strategy." I can't think of many instances at all actually.

Also, that is not what I am saying at all. I am saying, it is better to sit him for a good deal of the first half and not have him tentative or concerned in the 2nd half at all. I am not saying he should sit for 19.5 minutes so that he can play the last 5. I am saying he should sit for 11 or 12 minutes so the chances of him picking up that 3rd early in the first half are eliminated, thusly taking him out of MOST of the game.

The other poster said he wanted to leave G in after the 2nd. I said that it was smart to take him out for awhile and that this is pretty established strategy. I really can think of very few exceptions to this assertion and they all involve spectacular defenders that have the full faith of their coach. G just isn't that player yet.

I mean, we are talking about 2 fouls in the first 45 seconds...

wisteria
03-14-2009, 01:54 AM
He is saying, "It is time to get serious." Your English is outstanding!

Thank you! And thanks to pfrduke.

So I completely misunderstood it. I thought he meant this was the last game and they weren't going to play any more. Of course that didn't make sense.

Now that I understand it, I see why everyone was getting upset. :)

We ain't playing no more either!!

InSpades
03-14-2009, 02:02 AM
The other poster said he wanted to leave G in after the 2nd. I said that it was smart to take him out for awhile and that this is pretty established strategy. I really can think of very few exceptions to this assertion and they all involve spectacular defenders that have the full faith of their coach. G just isn't that player yet.

I mean, we are talking about 2 fouls in the first 45 seconds...

I'm not saying you play as if he doesn't have any fouls. I just think that sitting him for 15 of the 1st 20 minutes of the game is a lot. I can definitely see taking him out right after he gets 2 fouls. You want to have him later to give his replacement (Nolan in this case, who isn't 100%) a rest (which is how K used him). I just think he could have played a lot more in that 1st half. I think perimeter players are much more capable of controling their fouls than big men.

I'm done w/ this topic though, it's just a pet-peeve of mine.

As for Nolan I thought he looked good after not playing for about 3 weeks. You can't expect him to be 100% in his 1st game back and the missed layups were evidence of that. He was aggressive though and he hit a very big 3. Hopefully come NCAAs he's 100%!

gumbomoop
03-14-2009, 02:17 AM
On a totally separate note, I wish this team recognized mismatches better, and that includes K. Thank goodness he ran that final play for G in the post. Because time and again, he called plays for G on the wing with Rice or Paris on him. And he had a huge size/strength/hops advantage over both guys. We should have posted him more. Ditto Scheyer. And we missed a number of guys off switches. At one point, Thomas had Rice sealed in the middle of the lane, and Williams (I think) didn't see him/didn't get him the ball. Compare that to the one time Duke recognized that, when Singler had a smaller guy on him off a switch and Scheyer lobbed him the ball for an easy basket.

Like you, Jumbo, when we took advantage of the Singler mismatch and then the G mismatch, I'm thinking, "Why don't we do that a lot?"

But wait. Is the answer that "mismatch" mostly refers to our tall guy posting opponent's shorter guy down low? If so, that requires our tall guys to be smooth down low, and most of ours aren't. It also requires the opponent to switch a lot, and I doubt - but am not certain on this - that many teams switch on everything, as do we.

So we seem to get mismatched rather more frequently than we mismatch others, but it may be that we just don't have enough smoothness down low to do this much. But yes, for sure, G and KS more often. It led to 2 crucial late baskets tonight..... er, last night.

Saratoga2
03-14-2009, 06:07 AM
I don't mean to imply Duke didn't rarn the victory, but luck was involved in keeping BC from scoring in that final 10 second period. Good win for Duke, after going down by 7 at the half.

Singler had the kind of great game you need from your stars to move ahead in the tournament. He remained aggressive throughout, but without forcing plays that weren't there and without the fouls he sometimes commits. He showed a versatility tonight that makes him a great player.

On the other hand, Henderson didn't show the maturity in his game that is needed. He is a great talent and wound up making some big shots going down the stretch, but he also made mistakes early on by forcing the plays, getting into foul trouble and then during the stretch where we gave up our 8 point lead forcing the play again. The good news is that he is so talented and can correct those mistakes and deliver more going forward.

We got some other answers on the team tonight. Coach K evidently used the time to prepare his defense, which for much of the game looked really stifling. Williams was called on to play big minutes and delivered defensively. Yes he makes some mistakes, but he is a good bet to play 30 minutes a game. McClure was back playing excellent defense and was the guy we know and love. Great blocks and very active defensively. Thomas also played well defensively and can provide some garbage baskets around the rim. Nolan looked good and fluid and was able to defend well while in. His offfense looked a little rusty but that will come. Zoubek didn't get a lot of minutes but also looked like he belonged and Paulus got only a few minutes as is his likely role until we hit early NCAA rounds.

Scheyer still makes excellent decisions even though he didn't have a signature game, he was steady and minimized turnovers. One came when he got the ball with a couple seconds on the clock, was a mile from the basket and had to try to get a shot off while highly pressured. A second came when he made a nice pass to Nolan, hit him on the hands, but Nolan couldn't handle it.

As a whole, we need to correct unforced turnovers and we need to hit our foul shots. Going down the stretch and having Singler, Henderson and Scheyer miss key foul shots will lose for us in most game situations.

davekay1971
03-14-2009, 08:19 AM
I'm feeling positive, not becuase BC's shot didn't go down, but because of the way we responded to the challenge BC presented coming out of the gates at halftime. BC didn't wilt. They played great all game. But our team really turned it up at halftime, erased a big lead, and then withstood BC's final charge. This Duke team keeps winning close, high pressure games. It's absolutely fun to watch. I'd rather we blow teams out, of course. But you have to appreciate the way our guys seem to be able to find ways to win, getting the crucial buckets and crucial stops. That's something to be valued. As a State fan by marriage, I can tell you first hand that not every team has that quality (as I watch State find ways to lose close game after close game by not being able get the crucial basket or make the crucial stop).

CDu
03-14-2009, 08:45 AM
E-Will is getting a lot of love for his D, but he has to use his hands less. He's committing too many fouls too far away from the hoop -- the one on Rice around the arc with five seconds left on the shot clock was particularly bad.

Another example was the foul on Sanders when Williams and Thomas had effectively trapped him on the sideline near half court. Rather than just suffocating Sanders and forcing a timeout or a turnover, Williams just slapped wildly at the ball and picked up a foul, bailing BC out of a tough situation. Williams's addition to the lineup has certainly changed the look and energized the team, but I agree that he has to play more disciplined with his hands/reaches on defense.


I thought Nolan Smith played very, very well on D. In fact, I thought he looked terrific, given all the time he has missed. He was rusty (see his missed layup), but hopefully he can work that out. With Scheyer running the point, I can see Smith playing more relaxed and becoming a strong offensive option beyond the top three guys going forward. I'll have no problem with his stealing back some of those minutes from Williams.

I agree on Smith. I am really hopeful with his return. I envision he and Williams sharing the responsibility of being the primary defender of the other team's PG. I can also see them occasionally getting time together (with Scheyer as the third wing and running our offense) and causing havoc on the perimeter defensively. And if Smith can get his offensive game back, he can perhaps give us a bit of a boost on both ends, and just as importantly give us another option if Williams isn't having a good night.

Oriole Way
03-14-2009, 09:52 AM
On a totally separate note, I wish this team recognized mismatches better, and that includes K. Thank goodness he ran that final play for G in the post. Because time and again, he called plays for G on the wing with Rice or Paris on him. And he had a huge size/strength/hops advantage over both guys. We should have posted him more. Ditto Scheyer. And we missed a number of guys off switches. At one point, Thomas had Rice sealed in the middle of the lane, and Williams (I think) didn't see him/didn't get him the ball. Compare that to the one time Duke recognized that, when Singler had a smaller guy on him off a switch and Scheyer lobbed him the ball for an easy basket.

I would agree to a point. To be honest, I have no problem with G driving to the paint from the wings repeatedly. He made it clear that he could beat whoever was guarding him off the dribble, and it resulted in foul shots on three straight possessions in the second half, and 4 possessions in the second half within a span of just 3 minutes. In fact, I think it's a solid game plan to continue to go to him past the three-point line to initiate his drives as long as he can beat his man. It results in dunks or high percentage looks, and a one-man parade to the foul line, getting an opponent in foul trouble in the process.

RepoMan
03-14-2009, 09:55 AM
Another example was the foul on Sanders when Williams and Thomas had effectively trapped him on the sideline near half court. Rather than just suffocating Sanders and forcing a timeout or a turnover, Williams just slapped wildly at the ball and picked up a foul, bailing BC out of a tough situation. Williams's addition to the lineup has certainly changed the look and energized the team, but I agree that he has to play more disciplined with his hands/reaches on defense.



I agree on Smith. I am really hopeful with his return. I envision he and Williams sharing the responsibility of being the primary defender of the other team's PG. I can also see them occasionally getting time together (with Scheyer as the third wing and running our offense) and causing havoc on the perimeter defensively. And if Smith can get his offensive game back, he can perhaps give us a bit of a boost on both ends, and just as importantly give us another option if Williams isn't having a good night.

You know what also is noteworthy. Elliot seems to be developing into an exceptional rebounder. I think he had 8 or 9 again.

I am very hopeful that we will be seeing the real Nolan Smith now that we have settled into a rhythm with Jon on the point and he doesn't have to worry about that.

With Elliot and Nolan both playing at a high level, we become some much more dangerous

Oriole Way
03-14-2009, 09:58 AM
Right. It's balancing uncertainty (will he get fouls, depriving him of end of game minutes?) against certainty (he will sit on the bench, depriving him of current minutes). The other part of the equation is the style of play part - will Henderson reduce his aggressiveness if he's in the game with 2 fouls and 38 minutes still to go, making him at least a defensive liability, and possibly offensive as well.

I also think K was a little too conservative with him. I think the same could be said about Greenberg's use of Vassallo earlier in the day, and Gaudio's use of Johnson. The reflexiveness of "2 first half fouls = bench" is far from the right move in all circumstances.

I don't understand why coaches are so petrified of picking up a third foul before the second half. In some ways, I'd rather have a guy foul out playing 35 minutes than a guy wind up with 3 or 4 fouls in 25. Sacrificing as much as 10 minutes without your best player is bad game management. Gerald is a junior and has experience. Just tell him not to pick up his third or he's not playing the rest of the first half.

I think K kept G on the bench way too long in the first half and it could have cost Duke a win yesterday.

sagegrouse
03-14-2009, 10:05 AM
On a totally separate note, I wish this team recognized mismatches better, and that includes K. Thank goodness he ran that final play for G in the post. Because time and again, he called plays for G on the wing with Rice or Paris on him. And he had a huge size/strength/hops advantage over both guys. We should have posted him more. Ditto Scheyer. And we missed a number of guys off switches. At one point, Thomas had Rice sealed in the middle of the lane, and Williams (I think) didn't see him/didn't get him the ball. Compare that to the one time Duke recognized that, when Singler had a smaller guy on him off a switch and Scheyer lobbed him the ball for an easy basket.

I think it is great having three scorers on the floor. And as guards, EWill, Nolan, and Greg, while not primary options, do get their hands on the ball. But Lance, McCkure, and Zoubs become "cellophane men," never considered as an option. Understandable but not ideal. And, of course, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy -- when they get surprised with a pass, it often doesn't turn out well. Lance has shown some good moves and energy on occasion, and Zoubs has at least one move -- a baby hook -- that can produce results.

sagegrouse
'OTOH I did mention nine people in position to help the offense. Nice to hae usable depth'

Oriole Way
03-14-2009, 10:27 AM
The bad from yesterday's games:

- Free throw shooting. When our best free throw shooter consistently misses clutch free throws (let alone most of the team) in the last two minutes of most close games, we are going to have a very tough time winning many games in March.

- It has become a consistent pattern with this team to build a sizable lead (8-12 points) late in games only to completely relinquish them. We still have almost no killer instinct. It's frustrating, and it will kill this team in the NCAA tournament if it continues. Henderson and Singler are steadily becoming better at hitting big shots for us, however, so that's very encouraging.

The good:

- Obviously it's good to have Nolan Smith back. He was a half-second slow on almost every one of his plays, both offensively and defensively. But him being back and healthy will make this team much better.

- I liked our shot selection, for the most part, in regards to 3's. Unless we are shooting lights out, I don't want this team shooting any more than 20 attempts per game. I want to see Henderson and Singler driving to the rim as much as humanly possible.

- Our defense looks a little better in the half-court against penetration. We had 8 blocks on drives and almost all of them were a result of good defense on the ball to begin with or good recovery help defense.

- The most important good thing: Kyle Singler stepping up. Not only in this game, but over the past month. He has drastically changed his offensive game and made it much more efficient. Aside from Scheyer moving to the point and Williams getting big minutes, the third thing I have wanted to see the most this season was Kyle Singler emphasize posting up and driving to the rim. The first two were largely on K, but Kyle has always been in control of his ability to make Duke a better team in regards to the third positive development.

Kyle is driving to the rim and posting up a LOT more than he used to. His 3-pt shooting is better as well; he's taking better shots at better times than he was earlier in the season. Most of his 3's are much more within the flow of the offense, and his shot selection and decision-making (in terms of when to drive and when to shoot 3's) are much improved. Unlike last season, Singler's shooting percentage is improving as we head into the NCAA tournament. This is great to see.

dukestheheat
03-14-2009, 10:48 AM
I promise you I almost had a heart attack last night. Man, what an exhale when that shot didn't go! GREAT defense with G on that last shot.

I felt that Duke was very fortunate to win this game. When is the last time we shot 13/22 at the free throw line?

We are going to have to get many more of those down if we're going to be competitive in the NCAAs this year.

It's time for turtle soup!

dth.

MChambers
03-14-2009, 10:50 AM
I agree on Smith. I am really hopeful with his return. I envision he and Williams sharing the responsibility of being the primary defender of the other team's PG. I can also see them occasionally getting time together (with Scheyer as the third wing and running our offense) and causing havoc on the perimeter defensively. And if Smith can get his offensive game back, he can perhaps give us a bit of a boost on both ends, and just as importantly give us another option if Williams isn't having a good night.

Yes, I thought Nolan looked remarkably good, and played better than he had in the two weeks before the concussion. His three in the second half was huge and his defense was solid. I hope he can get three games under his belt this weekend.

Highlander
03-14-2009, 10:52 AM
Frankly, I don't think the situations are that similar. Gerald is a good defender, but I (and obviously K) don't have the same trust in him to not pick up that next foul. I disagree with your statement "K usually has disagree with that strategy." I can't think of many instances at all actually.



I actually agree with Jumbo here. K has rolled the dice differently in the past, most noteably UConn in 2004, and Shel and Shav both fouled out before the last 5 minutes (Shel btw, was a pretty good defender, and pretty adept at NOT fouling out). Calhoun sat Okafor for the entire first half and he dominated the second and UConn won the game by a bucket. The move worked for Calhoun, and so at the time he looked like a genius and K the goat. In fact, most people pointed to that move as THE REASON UConn won and Duke lost.

Pretty similar situation here, and I think K played it exactly the way Calhoun did him in '04. The difference was that Duke built a lead without Gerald in the game, and was playing stifling defense. It wasn't pretty, but given those circumstances, I wouldn't have risked playing Gerald since we were leading without him. Even at the end of the half with BC went on the run, we were only down 4. It was only a big Rice 3 at the buzzer that put us down 3 possessions. IIRC, Henderson DID get into the game again in the 1H for a few plays, but I may be wrong.

In the past, I've seen K usually do the opposite of what he did with Gerald. I know that K left Laettner in the 1H more than once with 2 fouls, and left guys like Shane in the game in the 2H after they picked up their 4th with 8+ minutes to go. It's a gamble either way. We both agree that K had to sit him after those two quick fouls. The only thing we may disagree on is whether he sat him too long or not.

The good news is Henderson didn't foul out or end up in foul trouble, Duke won by a bucket, and the gamble worked. It almost didn't, but you could argue that Calhoun's gamble almost didn't either. Since it worked, I think K gets the benefit of the doubt on this one.

devildownunder
03-14-2009, 11:49 AM
I don't understand why coaches are so petrified of picking up a third foul before the second half. In some ways, I'd rather have a guy foul out playing 35 minutes than a guy wind up with 3 or 4 fouls in 25. Sacrificing as much as 10 minutes without your best player is bad game management. Gerald is a junior and has experience. Just tell him not to pick up his third or he's not playing the rest of the first half.

I think K kept G on the bench way too long in the first half and it could have cost Duke a win yesterday.


Foul trouble, especially early foul trouble, makes players tentative. If a guy has 2 fouls in the first 8 minutes, you are much better off benching him for 12 minutes so he can give you 20 full-speed minutes in the 2nd half, than leaving him out there and making it highly probable that he won't be himself for much of the remainder of the game. Plus, there is the major possibility that he'll get that 3rd foul in the first half and pretty much assure that his productivity won't return to normal for the rest of the game.

geraldsneighbor
03-14-2009, 11:58 AM
Scheyer missing the FT late after steal sure felt a lot like Demarcus vs. Belmont. Weird game, just glad to come out on top.

-bdbd
03-14-2009, 12:54 PM
I actually agree with Jumbo here. K has rolled the dice differently in the past, most noteably UConn in 2004, and Shel and Shav both fouled out before the last 5 minutes (Shel btw, was a pretty good defender, and pretty adept at NOT fouling out). Calhoun sat Okafor for the entire first half and he dominated the second and UConn won the game by a bucket. The move worked for Calhoun, and so at the time he looked like a genius and K the goat. In fact, most people pointed to that move as THE REASON UConn won and Duke lost.

Pretty similar situation here, and I think K played it exactly the way Calhoun did him in '04. The difference was that Duke built a lead without Gerald in the game, and was playing stifling defense. It wasn't pretty, but given those circumstances, I wouldn't have risked playing Gerald since we were leading without him. Even at the end of the half with BC went on the run, we were only down 4. It was only a big Rice 3 at the buzzer that put us down 3 possessions. IIRC, Henderson DID get into the game again in the 1H for a few plays, but I may be wrong.

In the past, I've seen K usually do the opposite of what he did with Gerald. I know that K left Laettner in the 1H more than once with 2 fouls, and left guys like Shane in the game in the 2H after they picked up their 4th with 8+ minutes to go. It's a gamble either way. We both agree that K had to sit him after those two quick fouls. The only thing we may disagree on is whether he sat him too long or not.



Highlander - I agree and don't agree on some aspects.

- 2004 FF - (I actually was there, though you probably had a better view than I did from the SA nosebleeds...) As I recall Shel fouled out and I think two of his fouls were on offense - kinda unusual. Actually, we had three (3!) Centers foul out in that game trying to guard Okafor. He was special (and so was the zebra treatment he received in that game I would argue). Also, JJ not getting the call at the end while being mugged on his way to the basket made that game the poster child of the "Duke doesn't gets all the calls" crowd.

- K has stated more than once that he doesn't understand why coaches keep their star players out until the very end, when they have multiple fouls.

- K's theory is this: Why leave potential fouls on the table? Say your star player picks up his 4th foul with 12 minutes to play. And say you can, on average, expect to get 7-9 minutes out of him per foul. Then why not leave him in and get the full 7-9 minutes out of him, as opposed to waiting until 4 minutes remain to reinsert him (and get only 4 minutes of play out of him)?
(In theory, at least, a minute of play is a minute of play whenever it occurs.)

- Of course, in most cases, a well-coached player w/ 4 fouls is likely going to play "softer" D, to avoid #5 ...and we have all read the refs generally tend to be a little slower to call a foul when they know it is #5 on someone. So you can probably get more than 7-9 minutes. (But, to your point, you have to be able to trust the player to be more cautious.)

Last night, I think Duke playing so well w/o GH helped K to keep Gerald out for so long. He'd have been hard pressed to do so if we were down by 10.

Honestly, I don't look for K to change his philosophy too very much though. I still expect to see our top guys playing with 2 fouls late in the first half, or with 4 with say, 8 minutes to go in the game. We'll see...


-BDBD :cool:

-bdbd
03-14-2009, 01:10 PM
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we're playing a rival tomorrow.


"Not our rival! Not our rival! Not our rival! Not our rival!" Sound familliar? ;-)

In all seriousness, I do have a rules question: At the very end of the first half BC had the ball down the stretch, but with a 6 second differential between game and shot clocks (i.e. Duke would have to get the ball back, per one commentator). With about 15 seconds to go BC gets trapped and calls a timeout. When they come back from the timeout the shot clock is turned off and BC runs it down for the Rice 3 at the buzzer. (Arrgh!)

How was this possible? Does the shot clock reset after a timeout? I was very surprised. It seemed to give BC an extra 6 seconds to set up that shot.

-BDBD :confused:

dukee94
03-14-2009, 01:23 PM
In all seriousness, I do have a rules question: At the very end of the first half BC had the ball down the stretch, but with a 6 second differential between game and shot clocks (i.e. Duke would have to get the ball back, per one commentator). With about 15 seconds to go BC gets trapped and calls a timeout. When they come back from the timeout the shot clock is turned off and BC runs it down for the Rice 3 at the buzzer. (Arrgh!)

How was this possible? Does the shot clock reset after a timeout? I was very surprised. It seemed to give BC an extra 6 seconds to set up that shot.

-BDBD :confused:

The timeout was at the 18 second mark. Elliot Williams then fouled Tyrese Rice at the 13 second mark to reset the shot clock:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=290720150

BulldogDancer81
03-14-2009, 01:23 PM
"Not our rival! Not our rival! Not our rival! Not our rival!" Sound familliar? ;-)

In all seriousness, I do have a rules question: At the very end of the first half BC had the ball down the stretch, but with a 6 second differential between game and shot clocks (i.e. Duke would have to get the ball back, per one commentator). With about 15 seconds to go BC gets trapped and calls a timeout. When they come back from the timeout the shot clock is turned off and BC runs it down for the Rice 3 at the buzzer. (Arrgh!)

How was this possible? Does the shot clock reset after a timeout? I was very surprised. It seemed to give BC an extra 6 seconds to set up that shot.

-BDBD :confused:

BDBD I am pretty sure there was a foul there not just a timeout. Thus the shot clock reset.

bird
03-14-2009, 01:26 PM
Be careful what you wish for. Duke would be better off in Philadelphia sans the UNC hoard than Greensboro IMO.

I respectfully disagree with the seeming concensus that Greensboro is a worse draw than, say, Greensboro. I've been to first round games in Chapel Hill, Charlotte, Raleigh and Greensboro. Charlotte was bad, I'll give you that. But I didn't think there was any real problem with in Greensboro or Raleigh. Anyway, I look forward to Duke forcing the opposing fans to sit there and watch Duke win. In fact, one of the sweetest years was when Duke got the Dean Dome and UNC had to travel.