Baseless Speculation about Paulus and Football

[b&l]

We confess to being poorly informed about NCAA rules. We've wondered, though, whether Greg Paulus would still have an option to play three or four years of football, if he switched sports? Seems there was a Florida State quarterback who came back to college to play, after being in baseball? One would have to assume that Greg knows by now he doesn't have the foot speed to be an NBA candidate. He's not even a Steve Nash. If playing pro sports after college was or still is a dream of his, maybe he feels tempted to see whether his old quarterback skills are there? He was, after all, one of the top quarterback prospects in the country, coming out of high school. And at this point in his basketball development, it seems the best he can be is a solid shooting guard, and there are a ton of those gunning for the NBA in the coming years. But our question is, if anyone knows the rules, could Greg switch to football and get a year or two of eligibility back?

[CDu]

No, I don't believe Paulus would be able to get any extra eligibility to play football other than the standard one redshirt year. The quarterback you are referring to for precedent is Chris Weinke. The difference with Weinke is that he played pro baseball instead of attending college at all, before eventually quitting baseball and going to FSU. Thus, his eligibility was intact. Paulus has been enrolled for 2 years at Duke now, so as far as I can tell, he's used at least one year of eligibility and his one redshirt year.

[dockfan]

First, I wouldn't make any judgments about Greg's pro basketball prospects, seeing as he has yet to go through a single college season without having to play with a broken bone.

Second, even if Greg never plays a day in the NBA, one could easily make the argument that playing basketball in Europe for several years is a far better choice (in terms of finances, short-term health, and long-term health) than trying to switch back to football and play it in college and/or the pros.

[bluebear]

One would have to assume that Greg knows by now he doesn't have the foot speed to be an NBA candidate. He's not even a Steve Nash.

Who else is a Steve Nash? Given that GP played with a broken foot all year, I'm not sure this past season was a fair evaluation of his pro potential. JJ wasn't considered a great pro prospect after his sophomore year...I'm not saying that Paulus is going to become a pro but who knows. He may have other reasons for wanting to play bball at Duke..

[Madrasdukie]

He may have other reasons for wanting to play bball at Duke..

While he was still in high school, and had committed to Duke, Greg was quoted as saying that he would like to become a basketball coach one day, and that he felt that there was no better program than Duke to help prepare him to reach that goal.

[MrBisonDevil]

Reggie Love had Duke basketball eligibility long after he finished 4-years of Duke football. So, maybe GP could switch up later after Bball...

Reggie Love:
- Four-years Duke football from 2000-03
- Two-years Duke basketball 2001 & 2002
- NFL 2004 (cut by Green Bay Packers before season)
- Third-year of Duke Basketball 2004-2005
- NFL 2005 signed by Dallas Cowboys

When Reggie came back to Duke in 2004-05, it was his "final year of basketball eligibility". I don't know the rules.

[CDu]

Reggie Love still had Duke basketball eligibility long after he finished 4-years of football at Duke. So, maybe GP could switch up later after Bball...

Reggie Love:
- Four-years Duke football from 2000-03
- Two-years Duke basketball 2001 & 2002
- NFL 2004 (cut by Green Bay Packers before season)
- Third-year of Duke Basketball 2004-2005
- NFL 2005 signed by Dallas Cowboys

When Reggie came back to Duke in 2004-05, it was his "final year of basketball eligibility". I don't know the rules.

So you're actually saying that Love came back only a few months after he finished his 4 years at Duke. He was a senior at Duke in 2003/2004. He was cut by the NFL in the summer of 2004. Then, he returned to Duke for the 2004/2005 bball season. What you just explained supports what I was trying to say:

Love played 4 years of football at Duke ('00/'01, '01/'02, '02/'03, and '03/'04). Thus, if he'd redshirted, his redshirt-senior year would have been '04/'05. He didn't redshirt in football, but he was granted the equivalent of one redshirt season for basketball (hence his '04/'05 season). That was his redshirt-senior year.

From what I understand, you get 4 years of active eligibility from the time you begin school, and that can span 5 years (or more if there are extenuating circumstances like excessive injuries or Mormon mission).

[kydevil]

Maybe Gp really doesn't care too much if he has a better chance with football... its all about where your heart is and Gp's is def. with Basketball!

[Clipsfan]

First, I agree with the above posters who state that we haven't seen how good of a pro Paulus can be at this point. I think that he will continue to improve. I mean, people were saying that Duhon couldn't be a pro during his junior and senior seasons. I guess those people were wrong, and we know even less about Paulus/he has more time to improve.

As for football, there aren't many 6'0 or 6'1" NFL quarterbacks. Paulus knew this as well when he chose to play basketball. 6'1" will cut it in HS, and at many colleges, but not very often in the pros.

[Troublemaker]

That's a good point about short QBs. Don't forget also that 2 broken bones in 2 years playing basketball doesn't display the kind of durability you need to play NFL football. As for the NBA, Greg has zero shot at it (whereas Duhon pretty clearly was going to make it due to his natural PG skills and defense), but he can probably have a fine career playing overseas under international rules. I have no doubt that Greg will become very well-off financially after graduating from Duke.

[MIKESJ73]

Could Greg play quarterback next year at Duke? What are the NCAA rules regarding two sport athletes? It was my understanding that you had five years to complete four years of eligibility, but what if it is two different sports? Could the NCAA grant an additional year for a different sport?

I know that the chances of this are slim to none, but I was curious of the rules. I don't know where Greg is with his studies but if he has another year of classes why not play a year?

[Edouble]

When he committed to Duke, he committed to hoops, so if he had an extra year, I think he would spend that extra year on the basketball court.

I think we've seen this type of thread before and I'm under the assumption that it reflects the thinking that some people feel bad that Greg, who was so highly rated in two sports coming out of high school, is probably not going to have a chance to play professionally in the NBA, so maybe if he went back to football he could make it in the NFL.

He chose basketball. He hasn't played organized football in years and he's never taken a snap at the college level. He's said that he wants to be a basketball coach, so it seems pointless to spend a year playing college football if that's what he wants to do. Even if playing professionally in the NBA or NFL was his goal, it seems that he closed the door on football when he chose Duke. If that was a door that he had wanted to keep open, he should have chosen a school where he could have played both sports, like some guys have done in the past.

It's fun to think of Greg getting a fresh chance to make millions of dollars playing pro sports because he seems like a good guy, but I don't think it's realistic to think that he could just pick up football again that easily.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I would assume that would not be eligible..otherwise 2 sport athletes might think about spreading out their careers.
But the real reason Greg can't play QB at Duke is that has been heavily noted by past posters is he's only 6'1", and thus too short.:)

[Devil in the Blue Dress]

I would assume that would not be eligible..otherwise 2 sport athletes might think about spreading out their careers.
But the real reason Greg can't play QB at Duke is that has been heavily noted by past posters is he's only 6'1", and thus too short.:)
There's another reason such a change wouldn't work well now. Duke football has changed. The recruiting has changed, too. We've got two good quarterbacks and another one red shirted. What would Greg do, be on the scout team?

[Diddy]

He can't beat out ANY of our current QB's, and maybe not any of the incoming ones either.

Yes, he was an HS AA back in the day. Yes, he was selected to an All American Game on ESPN. A game where he played horribly. I read the practice reports from back in the days leading up to those games, and he was widely acknowledged to be the biggest dissappointment at the game. He was not fast, and his armstrength was pedestrian. He made good decisions, but he didn't always have the armstrength to make the throw against high caliber competiton.

In HS, he enjoyed a high profile as a person able to play the two most scrutinized positions in college sports: QB and PG. And he was capable of playing both at Div 1. As a catholic kid, he drew a lot of interest from ND, who thought he might be their next QB (which drove up the interest in the kid). Duke began looking at him for PG two or so years out, and suddenly, Paulus is drawing interest from the two biggest teams in their respective sports (at the time).

His HS team was more talented than other teams, and his coach ran a high octane Offense that let Paulus air it out a lot. His numbers were, ah, inflated against weak competition.

Remember, HS Football summer camps are different because the kids aren't allowed to hit each other. And GP spent a lot of time at BB camp.

His size and armstrength precluded him from being a top flight QB at college, while he had a chance in BB. He could have played and contributed at a program like Duke in FB. But he wouldn't have been a star then, and he darn sure couldn't beat anybody on the current depth chart.

[MIKESJ73]

I was pretty sure that he could have at least one year of eligibility if he wanted to go to grad school. When I went to school I had a "track" scholarship, but also ran cross-country. I was injured my sophomore cross country season, but still was still on scholarship my fifth year running cross-country even though I had surpassed my four years of eligibility in track. It was my impression that you had 10 semesters to complete four years of eligibility from when you begin each sport. Things may have changed since I was in school and my sports weren't revenue sports, so I am sure things would be more closely monitored.

I know that there are professional baseball players that end playing college football after their baseball contracts expire (i.e. Corey Jenkins, South Carolina QB). If a baseball player can play professionally before his football clock starts couldn't a college basketball player?

I'm not trying to argue, just curious if anyone knows the rules. I don't think Greg could make it in the NFL, but I do think he could be a good college QB. If he is happy at Duke, thinking of grad school and is eligible, why not? Do you really think Greg would be on the scout team?

[Edouble]

I know that there are professional baseball players that end playing college football after their baseball contracts expire (i.e. Corey Jenkins, South Carolina QB). If a baseball player can play professionally before his football clock starts couldn't a college basketball player?

I'm not trying to argue, just curious if anyone knows the rules. I don't think Greg could make it in the NFL, but I do think he could be a good college QB. If he is happy at Duke, thinking of grad school and is eligible, why not? Do you really think Greg would be on the scout team?

Once you play an NCAA sport, your clock starts and you have six years. So, I would assume the baseball guys you are talking about never played any college sports before they played minor league ball. Back in the 1990's FSU's quarterback was like 28 years old (I forget his name) because he'd played minor league baseball for like 5 years before getting a football scholarship.

I know that Greg could play a year of football. Whether he could qualify as a scholarship player, I do not know. Unless his play was phenominal, I don't see how he could make it off of the scout team, as the program's future lies along a different path, with Greg only being part of the team for one year.

[MIKESJ73]

Wienke or Weinki (sp?), Jenkins was the same type story. He played for about four years in the minors, then played a couple of years JUCO, then a couple of years at SC.

I remember the Paulus recruiting a little different. I'm not saying your wrong, I might be. I thought Paulus gave Duke a verbal during his 10th grade year well before any great football expoits. I do remember there was speculation that he would not sign his LOI in favor of football. The were quite a few recruiting gurus that thought he was the top quarterback (NFL potential) his senior year. I thought that Christian Bros. played a pretty strong schedule, all their athletic programs are very good.

[cato]

The were quite a few recruiting gurus that thought he was the top quarterback (NFL potential) his senior year.

How many 6" NFL QBs are there?

[bdh21]

How many 6" NFL QBs are there?

Drew Brees is 6'0"

[throatybeard]

Obviously I was an idiot when I predicted that this was a dead topic, 3 years ago. :cool:

[DU82]

Once you play an NCAA sport, your clock starts and you have six years. So, I would assume the baseball guys you are talking about never played any college sports before they played minor league ball. Back in the 1990's FSU's quarterback was like 28 years old (I forget his name) because he'd played minor league baseball for like 5 years before getting a football scholarship.

I know that Greg could play a year of football. Whether he could qualify as a scholarship player, I do not know. Unless his play was phenominal, I don't see how he could make it off of the scout team, as the program's future lies along a different path, with Greg only being part of the team for one year.

Where do you get a "six year" clock. Plus the clock starts when somebody attends a class as a properly registered student, not necessarily when you first play a sport (although that is one of the exceptions to rule 14.2.1.1, if you participate in a sport before attending a class.) A simple check of the NCAA manual reveals the following:

14.2.1 Five-Year Rule. A student-athlete shall complete his or her seasons of participation within five calendar years from the beginning of the semester or quarter in which the student-athlete first registered for a minimum full-time program of studies in a collegiate institution, with time spent in the armed services, on official church missions or with recognized foreign aid services of the U.S. government being excepted. For foreign students, service in the armed forces or on an official church mission of the student’s home country is considered equivalent to such service in the United States.

14.2.1.1 Determining the Start of the Five-Year Period. For purposes of starting the count of time under the five-year rule, a student-athlete shall be considered registered at a collegiate institution (domestic or foreign; see Bylaw 14.02.3) when the student-athlete initially registers in a regular term (semester or quarter) of an academic year for a minimum full-time program of studies, as determined by the institution, and attends the student’s first day of classes for that term (see Bylaw 14.2.2).

There are various exceptions, the best known being a "medical redshirt" (actually a hardship waiver) where a sixth year is granted in certain situations due to multiple seasons lost to injury. If I recall correctly, one of our football players is in his sixth season.

This thread is a repeat of one from the spring/summer. Surprised it wasn't already merged.

[-jk]

This thread is a repeat of one from the spring/summer. Surprised it wasn't already merged.

My google fu was weak today: I couldn't find it in a quick search. Paulus seems to show up all over this place, if you can imagine that!

I was hoping a fellow mod would have found and merged it.

-jk

[Duvall]

Obviously I was an idiot when I predicted that this was a dead topic, 3 years ago. :cool:

It's so absurd. Greg Paulus hasn't played a football game since 2004, and somehow he's going to beat out two seniors and a highly recruited redshirt freshman (and anyone else Duke has next year). So bizarre.

[BlueintheFace]

It's so absurd. Greg Paulus hasn't played a football game since 2004, and somehow he's going to beat out two seniors and a highly recruited redshirt freshman (and anyone else Duke has next year). So bizarre.

He's just that good ... didn't you hear? He almost went to Notre Dame to be a QB. He's pretty much a lock to be drafted to the NFL.

[El_Diablo]

The real question is...how many receiving TDs could Olek Czyz have next year if he went out for the football team? I think about 40 (but maybe more if he played into November).

[Edouble]

Where do you get a "six year" clock. Plus the clock starts when somebody attends a class as a properly registered student, not necessarily when you first play a sport (although that is one of the exceptions to rule 14.2.1.1, if you participate in a sport before attending a class.) A simple check of the NCAA manual reveals the following:

A simple check of the NCAA manual? Oh right, what was I thinking. It's bookmarked right there next to my email. Five years, six years, whatever, the point's the same. The guy asked if Paulus would get fresh eligibility for football, and the answer's no. Chill pill.

[formerdukeathlete]

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=611

firstly, in terms of whether Greg Paulus is of sufficient height to play in the NFL - how many folks asking this question also ask the question of Thad Lewis? Paulus is a bit taller than Lewis, so what does that mean?

Greg has 5 years to complete 4 years elibibility in any one sport - unless a medical exception is allowed.

What this means is that Greg can go out for Football for one year.

If he does go out, by virtue of being on the roster he may count as one of the 85, whether on scholarship or not. So, Cut has to agree, and if he shows up on the roster rest assured it will be because he looks like he could get playing time.

Greg will also graduate before next season. So to play Football, he will have to be in grad school at Duke.

I can see the following scenario - Greg plans to attend graduate school, further to a career in coaching, and will be a grad assistant for K. First he plays a season of Football.

To all who think Greg does not have a chance, guys have made it in the NFL who did not play college ball - not a day of it - Sam Clancy, Bob Hayes come to mind. What makes you think that Greg would not have a chance to play college ball for Duke? He was much more higher rated and more highly recruited as a qb I believe than anyone on the Duke Football roster except for Renfree, and even Renfree did not get a qb offer from Notre Dame. Either you have a strong rooting interest in our current slate of qbs, do not like Greg Paulus, or have not followed closely our talent levels at the position.

[Jeffrey]

A simple check of the NCAA manual? Oh right, what was I thinking. It's bookmarked right there next to my email. Five years, six years, whatever, the point's the same. The guy asked if Paulus would get fresh eligibility for football, and the answer's no. Chill pill.

Hi,

What you stated as fact was not and you were corrected. You know this board prides itself on accuracy. Why should the other poster need a chill pill?

Best regards,
Jeffrey

[cato]

Drew Brees is 6'0"

And you think that Paulus can be as good a QB as Brees?

[Kedsy]

And you think that Paulus can be as good a QB as Brees?

Come on. He mentioned Brees because someone asked how many 6' NFL QBs were out there. I don't want to speak for him, but I doubt he was making any kind of quality comparison; merely a height comparison.

[throatybeard]

He's just that good ... didn't you hear? He almost went to Notre Dame to be a QB. He's pretty much a lock to be drafted to the NFL.

I saw Nick Horvath in a pick-up game this summer, and I'm telling you, he could take Ben Roethlisberger's job if the Steelers just gave him a chance.

[Wander]

I saw Nick Horvath in a pick-up game this summer, and I'm telling you, he could take Ben Roethlisberger's job if the Steelers just gave him a chance.

Rumor has it that the University of Arizona is considering hiring Olek Czyz as their new head coach.

[CameronBornAndBred]

I saw Nick Horvath in a pick-up game this summer, and I'm telling you, he could take Ben Roethlisberger's job if the Steelers just gave him a chance.

With the Steeler's O-line, that job requires a real man. Only Patrick Davidson need apply.

[Duvall]

To all who think Greg does not have a chance, guys have made it in the NFL who did not play college ball - not a day of it - Sam Clancy, Bob Hayes come to mind.

I'm pretty sure this is the first and only time that Greg Paulus has ever brought thoughts of Bob Hayes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Hayes) to anyone's mind.

[jimsumner]

I'm sorry but the idea that Greg Paulus could go four years without playing a down of football and come in and beat out Thad Lewis, Zack Asack, Sean Renfree, and Sean Schroeder and play quarterback at an ACC level is just preposterous.

Seriously. Are we that bored? Is there nothing else to talk about?

[SupaDave]

http://bluedevilnation.net/?p=611

To all who think Greg does not have a chance, guys have made it in the NFL who did not play college ball - not a day of it - Sam Clancy, Bob Hayes come to mind.

Gotta mention Antonio Gates...

[SupaDave]

Drew Brees is 6'0"

AND...

Michael Vick
Seneca Wallace (5.11)
Matt Hasselback
Tim Rattay
Jeff Blake
Doug Flutie (5.10)
Fran Tarkenton
Joe Theisman
DJ Shockley
Troy Smith (Paulus is easily as good as this guy)

6'1 (b/c that extra inch matters...)

Marques Tuiasosopo
Bruce Gradkowski
Tim Hasselbeck
Mark Brunell
Jeff Garcia

There's more but hopefully this puts the height issue to bed...

[SupaDave]

I'm sorry but the idea that Greg Paulus could go four years without playing a down of football and come in and beat out Thad Lewis, Zack Asack, Sean Renfree, and Sean Schroeder and play quarterback at an ACC level is just preposterous.

Seriously. Are we that bored? Is there nothing else to talk about?

It's not about beating them out really. It SHOULD be about making the team and going pro - which is how this started I think.

The combines are where MANY future NFL players make their mark. A good combine and a few good team workouts and Paulus could be a last day pick. He'd EASILY be in the best shape of most of the QBs and have an outstanding QB vision.

One has to look no further than two Chase's from Missouri this year to know that you don't have to be a starter to get drafted (or Matt Cassell for that matter).

Oh and I think folks are just getting warmed up!

[jimsumner]

Just getting warmed up? Dave, this nonsense has been going on since Paulus signed an LOI with Duke.

I have a fair amount of contact with both programs. I have neither heard nor seen anything from Paulus, the Duke basketball program, or the Duke football program that even remotely suggests that this is a possibility.

[Duvall]

It's not about beating them out really. It SHOULD be about making the team and going pro - which is how this started I think.

The combines are where MANY future NFL players make their mark. A good combine and a few good team workouts and Paulus could be a last day pick. He'd EASILY be in the best shape of most of the QBs and have an outstanding QB vision.

One has to look no further than two Chase's from Missouri this year to know that you don't have to be a starter to get drafted (or Matt Cassell for that matter).

You don't have to be a starter, but you do have to be a player. Paulus hasn't even participated in a football *practice* in four years. At most, he's played catch with his brothers in the backyard. How can he possibly beat out actual college football players, four and five-year players, for an NFL roster spot?

[SupaDave]

You don't have to be a starter, but you do have to be a player. Paulus hasn't even participated in a football *practice* in four years. At most, he's played catch with his brothers in the backyard. How can he possibly beat out actual college football players, four and five-year players, for an NFL roster spot?

I present to you - Antonio Gates - who was neither a starter NOR a player before his NFL career.

(and just for fun - Mike Vick who will be back in the league next year...)

**Not that I actually think Paulus would or SHOULD play football but I'm just going along with the thread here. I think his baby brother will handle the ACC football duties...

MOST prospects usually zero in on a sport by their junior years (high school or college - pick one). Julius Peppers is one of the rare ACC players that was good enough to do do both but everybody knew football was his calling and he had to let the bball go.

[duketaylor]

"You don't have to be a starter, but you do have to be a player. Paulus hasn't even participated in a football *practice* in four years. At most, he's played catch with his brothers in the backyard. How can he possibly beat out actual college football players, four and five-year players, for an NFL roster spot?"
Beating out actual college players...er, I could do that tomorrow in my sport without hesitation at age 46 and I only play about once a month. If you get IT, you get IT. I sincerely believe Greg's the best QB on campus. And, yes, he would have one year of eligibility remaining to play fball if he wanted.

[SupaDave]

"You don't have to be a starter, but you do have to be a player. Paulus hasn't even participated in a football *practice* in four years. At most, he's played catch with his brothers in the backyard. How can he possibly beat out actual college football players, four and five-year players, for an NFL roster spot?"
Beating out actual college players...er, I could do that tomorrow in my sport without hesitation at age 46 and I only play about once a month. If you get IT, you get IT. I sincerely believe Greg's the best QB on campus. And, yes, he would have one year of eligibility remaining to play fball if he wanted.

I like this for a number of reasons. The pure audacity at 46 years old is simply amazing. Also, WHAT sport could you be talking about? Ping Pong perhaps?

FWIW, due to Deltha O'Neal's attempts to play cornerback this year (and Ty Law's too for that matter), I have decided that I should try out for a job as an NFL cornerback. As far as I know I'm not injury prone b/c I havent' taken a hit since the 8th grade.

However, I'm quite sure I could dive at a player flying by me, get up, chase him, and then get mad as all get out when he scores a touchdown. :)

[devildeac]

I like this for a number of reasons. The pure audacity at 46 years old is simply amazing. Also, WHAT sport could you be talking about? Ping Pong perhaps?

FWIW, due to Deltha O'Neal's attempts to play cornerback this year (and Ty Law's too for that matter), I have decided that I should try out for a job as an NFL cornerback. As far as I know I'm not injury prone b/c I havent' taken a hit since the 8th grade.

However, I'm quite sure I could dive at a player flying by me, get up, chase him, and then get mad as all get out when he scores a touchdown. :)

Uh-oh, this could get interesting...

Whaddaya think, Chuck?

[CameronBornAndBred]

I have decided that I should try out for a job as an NFL cornerback. As far as I know I'm not injury prone b/c I havent' taken a hit since the 8th grade.:)

Duke needs corners more than the NFL, and I bet you also have a least a year of eligibilty left. Finish the season with Duke, and show the scouts your stuff!

[ACCBBallFan]

As long as people are going to speculate, might as well take it the final step.

If rule has not changed, Greg Paulus could as a grad student with one year of collegiate eligibility left in any men's sport except basketball, play Football for Notre Dame, for Duke or for anywhere else for one year as was the case when UF took advantage of it two years ago.

If he wanted to, he could challenge his little brother next year at UNC under this grad student rule, assuming the loophole has not been closed.

In addition to that rule, my understanding is an athlete can compete at most five years total in all college sports with a maximum of four in any sport. Not sure if the 5 years have to be contiguous.

[SupaDave]

Well this is all good news and quite informative. When I submit my law school application next month I will also begin plans to use my 4 years of eligibility. :)

I could be the NEW Quin Buckner!!! :)

[BD80]

...er, I could do that tomorrow in my sport without hesitation at age 46 and I only play about once a month. If you get IT, you get IT. ...


...The pure audacity at 46 years old is simply amazing. Also, WHAT sport could you be talking about? Ping Pong perhaps? ...


Uh-oh, this could get interesting...


Nope. It is the antithesis of interesting. Maybe not as bad as Greg Doyel, but still bad.

[devildeac]

Nope. It is the antithesis of interesting. Maybe not as bad as Greg Doyel, but still bad.

I'd wager you don't know duketaylor. I'd also wager neither does SupaDave. I do. That's what makes the above exchange interesting...

[jimsumner]

C'mon Chuck. 46-year-olds compete successfully with golfers half their age all the time.

46-year-old football players? Not so much.

[formerdukeathlete]

"You don't have to be a starter, but you do have to be a player. Paulus hasn't even participated in a football *practice* in four years. At most, he's played catch with his brothers in the backyard. How can he possibly beat out actual college football players, four and five-year players, for an NFL roster spot?"
Beating out actual college players...er, I could do that tomorrow in my sport without hesitation at age 46 and I only play about once a month. If you get IT, you get IT. I sincerely believe Greg's the best QB on campus. And, yes, he would have one year of eligibility remaining to play fball if he wanted.

Lateral mobility, which is key in playing d as a point guard, is a Paulus strength, as is intelligence, as is vision, as is his arm.

Greg's lateral mobility is superior to all of our qbs, in my estimation. From my days playing football for a state champ. program (linebacker), i can tell you that a qb with quick lateral mobility is a lot harder to shut down and sack. I was picked for middle linebacker because I had the same this, could cut on a dime, even though my 40 speed was 4.7 (that was quite good back then) - laterally, I was quicker than that.

Greg is taller than Lewis, shorter than the rest - but, he had excellent vision at qb in high school, and I think seeing the court and passing at point guard is one of his strengths.

His arm in terms of accuracy (based on high school film versus high school film of the others) is the best.

His intelligence may be at the top of the list.

Greg would have a shot. Football has to have a roster spot. Money will not be an issue.

K. White was AD at Notre Dame when Notre Dame offered for both sports.

K will support whatever Greg wants.

As noted above the rules work so that Greg could go to another school and do this.

[greybeard]

I believe that Paulus will go directly into coaching. I expect him within a few years to be coaching at some small college in the north east. He does have the set jaw of a military man--West Point would look good with using Duke's current approach to offense that makes terrific use of littles to create inside-out play, don't you think? ;)

[MulletMan]

I'd wager you don't know duketaylor. I'd also wager neither does SupaDave. I do. That's what makes the above exchange interesting...

I was so enjoying it too! Until Sumner had to ruin the fun!! Booooooo.

Um, FDA... Paulus' lateral quickness on D...? Seriously? Do you watch basketball? Ever?

Oh, my bad... I suppose I shouldn't question you powers of observation, you studly state championship linebacker, you.

[Kedsy]

Um, FDA... Paulus' lateral quickness on D...? Seriously? Do you watch basketball? Ever?

I can't say for certain, but my guess is he was referring to lateral quickness on a football field, presumably moving in and out of the pocket. This particular thread is a football discussion after all.

[devildeac]

I was so enjoying it too! Until Sumner had to ruin the fun!! Booooooo.

Um, FDA... Paulus' lateral quickness on D...? Seriously? Do you watch basketball? Ever?

Oh, my bad... I suppose I shouldn't question you powers of observation, you studly state championship linebacker, you.

Could you give sumner a warning or an infraction point for repetitive and needless "wet blanketing" or "fun ruining":rolleyes:?

[formerdukeathlete]

.............Um, FDA... Paulus' lateral quickness on D...? Seriously? Do you watch basketball? Ever?

......

Yes, in fact, I do watch b-ball. Point to consider, very few d-1 qbs could come even the slightest bit remotely close to guarding a d-1, top tier, point guard. Certainly no other qb on Duke's roster has even remotely close to the lateral movement to do so. And, this is partly the reason a qb takes a sack. Partly whether a qb moves to see through to receivers, affects vision, certainly affects ability to scramble and run.

Straight away speed Renfree and Asack might be a bit faster than Paulus, but have either try to defend a top tier guard - forget about it. Paulus was an elite 11 qb, top 10 rated, US Army All American, Parade All American.

4 years as a point guard and his quickness has not suffered. He is tougher mentally and physically. If he wants it, he has a shot, if it means going to another school. I dont think you leave the potential for a NFL career on the table, unless you dont want to do it. And, I am sure you remember, his father wanted him to play both sports in college.

[MulletMan]

Could you give sumner a warning or an infraction point for repetitive and needless "wet blanketing" or "fun ruining":rolleyes:?

I tried to do it, but I can't bring myself to infract him. Is infract a verb? If not, it should be.


Yes, in fact, I do watch b-ball. Point to consider, very few d-1 qbs could come even the slightest bit remotely close to guarding a d-1, top tier, point guard

Oh, OK, but point guards make good QBs even when they haven't practiced at that position in 3-4years? Right. Got it. Paulus doesn't need practice or repetition to be a good QB. However, D-1 QBs need practice to play PG. Uh huh. Tell you what... you put Paulus at QB after 3 years of not playing, and I'll put Terelle Pryor at guard for OSU and we'll see who works out better.


Certainly no other qb on Duke's roster has even remotely close to the lateral movement to do so.

Really? I suppose that you have some proof there? A YouTube video or something?


And, this is partly the reason a qb takes a sack. Partly whether a qb moves to see through to receivers, affects vision, certainly affects ability to scramble and run.

Oh, I thought QBs took sacks because they were too short and couldn't see blitzing linebackers. In fact, I didn't even think that QBs left the pocket, what with the critical need to be taller than and able to see over all 9 guys on the offensive and defensive lines on each play.



Straight away speed Renfree and Asack might be a bit faster than Paulus, but have either try to defend a top tier guard - forget about it.

Paulus (http://rivalshoops.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=2&pr_key=12332)- 4.6
Asack (http://duke.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?pr_key=23111&sport=1) - 4.5
Renfree (http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=8&c=1&nid=2789796) - 4.5
Lewis (http://rivals100.rivals.com/viewprospect.asp?Sport=1&pr_key=36031) - 4.8 (you know, just cuz I think its relevant)

Oooo... but guess what? Since we're talking about lateral mobility I looked at the shuttle run rankings on those too, since, you know, they involve side-to-side movement, and cutting, and stopping on a dime, and what not. (I know I don't have to explain the shuttle run to you, because we both played football, but I figured for those other peons out there...). And while I couldn't find a stat for Paulus, I did find it for the actual QBs on Duke's roster

Asack - 4.34
Renfree - 4.38

Ok...wait for it... wait for it...

Lewis - 4.25

So it would seem that even though Lewis is slower in the 40, he is better laterally than either Asack or Renfree. I knokw this doesn't settle the debate about Paulus, but I just wanted to point out that Lewis... according to your above logic... is the best player on the Duke team for avoiding an oncoming pass rush.



Paulus was an elite 11 qb, top 10 rated, US Army All American, Parade All American.

Really? Well at least you have Dickie V's constant repetition of these thoughts as a "source". But guess what... I have a source too... check it out here is a list of Paulus' class ranking at the QB (http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=4&pid=10&yr=2005) position. Let's look at the guys around him...

1. Mark Sanchez (Half a good year under his belt...probable pro)
2. Ryan Perilloux (Lotsa talent, not much of a citizen...possible pro)
3. Jonathon Crompton (Lost UT starting job... doubtful pro)
4. Ben Olson (Does he have any knees left? Pros won't touch him or his knees)
5. Joe Ayoob (CC) (Mediocre career... did he get drafted?)
6. Josh Portis (Who?)
7. Kyle Reed (Who?)
8. Ike Whitaker (Who?)
9. GP (Future NFL all-star)

14. Colt McCoy (Heisman front-runner after 3 years as starter)

Oh crap... I was going to make a point that several of those guys didn't amount to much in college and certainley aren't shoe-ins for pro careers, but then I saw McCoy at 14 which clearly validates recruiting rankings and judgements made on 17 year old kids coming out of HS. Except for the fact that he didn't win any of the awards that Paulus did. Oh, and that in the 3 years of playing ball at Texas he's gotten much better. But I'm sure GP is ready to stroll out onto a D-I field and start from day one. My bad.


4 years as a point guard and his quickness has not suffered. He is tougher mentally and physically. If he wants it, he has a shot, if it means going to another school. I dont think you leave the potential for a NFL career on the table, unless you dont want to do it. And, I am sure you remember, his father wanted him to play both sports in college.

OK... so, now Paulus is transferring to play QB for a year? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?

And what does it matter to a 21 year old kid what his father wanted him to do coming out of HS?

[jimsumner]

"8. Ike Whitaker (Who?)"

At the risk of ruining anyone's fun, Whitaker ended up in the ACC, Virginia Tech, to be precise.

Didn't work out. By didn't work out, I mean had legal problems, was switched to wide receiver and eventually became persona non grata.

[MulletMan]

"8. Ike Whitaker (Who?)"

At the risk of ruining anyone's fun, Whitaker ended up in the ACC, Virginia Tech, to be precise.

Didn't work out. By didn't work out, I mean had legal problems, was switched to wide receiver and eventually became persona non grata.

Very true. Very true. And I think that was in the link... at least that he ended up at VT. But the point I was trying to make was that just being highly rated out of HS doesn't guarentee a great college career, much less NFL-draftability.

And Sumner, you're always fun! :D

[formerdukeathlete]

......


Oh, I thought QBs took sacks because they were too short and couldn't see blitzing linebackers. In fact, I didn't even think that QBs left the pocket, what with the critical need to be taller than and able to see over all 9 guys on the offensive and defensive lines on each play.





Since we're talking about lateral mobility I looked at the shuttle run rankings on those too, since, you know, they involve side-to-side movement, and cutting, and stopping on a dime, and what not. (I know I don't have to explain the shuttle run to you, because we both played football, but I figured for those other peons out there...). And while I couldn't find a stat for Paulus, I did find it for the actual QBs on Duke's roster

Asack - 4.34
Renfree - 4.38

Ok...wait for it... wait for it...

Lewis - 4.25

So it would seem that even though Lewis is slower in the 40, he is better laterally than either Asack or Renfree. I knokw this doesn't settle the debate about Paulus, but I just wanted to point out that Lewis... according to your above logic... is the best player on the Duke team for avoiding an oncoming pass rush.




................
OK... so, now Paulus is transferring to play QB for a year? Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?................. .....



Further to being fair to Paulus and how he compared with other qbs in his class and how well he was rated compared with the current stable of qbs, yes, he was higher rated than was Renfree by scout (10), Asack (35) and Lewis (45). But, there is more to Paulus than his number 9 scout class ranking as a qb. In addition to the accolades I mentioned above, Greg was named Gatorade National Player of the Year and was rated as the top QB by USA Today. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greg_Paulus His talents may exceed by a fairly significant margin any of our current qbs. So, yes, lack of action is an issue. But with superior talent and a superior intellect, he plays football if he wants to, imo, somewhere. And, as I am sure you are aware as a former football player, Greg is free to attend grad school somewhere else, where he could play immediately.

Lateral mobility involves more than what is tested in a shuttle time - it involves changing direction side by side, and while backing up, these are things a linebacker has to do, a point guard has to do, a qb has to do when avoiding pass rush. I also question how consistently shuttles are administered. Gene Delle Donne had a shuttle time of 4.14 at a combine where he ran a 4.9 40 (faster in the shuttle than any of the above). He had tremendous potential, but lateral mobility was not something that popped to mind. http://duke.scout.com/a.z?s=167&p=8&c=1&nid=814194

[Kedsy]

Really? I suppose that you have some proof there? A YouTube video or something?

You know, for a moderator you're pretty snarky.

[SupaDave]

I will add just a little more to this fun time.

All I've got to say is Allen Iverson and Charlie Ward.

Paulus definitely reminds me of Charlie Ward. The Iverson comparison is due the fact that he was the #1 QB and football player in Virginia as well as the #1 basketball player.

I truly believe Allen Iverson could play in the NFL today.

[jimsumner]

"Paulus definitely reminds me of Charlie Ward"

The Charlie Ward who won the Heisman Trophy? That Charlie Ward?

Yea, right.

[Wander]

"Paulus definitely reminds me of Charlie Ward"

The Charlie Ward who won the Heisman Trophy? That Charlie Ward?

Yea, right.

Don't forget the "Paulus is easily as good as Troy Smith" comment a few posts back.

[SupaDave]

Paulus - Ward. Winners in 2008. :)

[devildeac]

"Paulus definitely reminds me of Charlie Ward"

The Charlie Ward who won the Heisman Trophy? That Charlie Ward?

Yea, right.

He also thinks duketaylor was talking about playing ping pong:rolleyes:.

[SupaDave]

He also thinks duketaylor was talking about playing ping pong:rolleyes:.

Ok - maybe it isn't ping pong. Bowling perhaps?! Sorry bout 46 year olds don't go pro where I'm from in much of anything.

Also, as a football player, I'd wager that Paulus has a LOT of Charlie Ward in him. Ward won the Heisman but those Florida State teams were STACKED at the time.

Even more inflammatory? I'd wager that if Paulus didn't have injuries early in his career he would be a better basketball player than Charlie Ward at this point. Remember that everyone thought it was ridiculous for Ward to go to the NBA at that time...

[Jumbo]

Ok - maybe it isn't ping pong. Bowling perhaps?! Sorry bout 46 year olds don't go pro where I'm from in much of anything.

Also, as a football player, I'd wager that Paulus has a LOT of Charlie Ward in him. Ward won the Heisman but those Florida State teams were STACKED at the time.

Even more inflammatory? I'd wager that if Paulus didn't have injuries early in his career he would be a better basketball player than Charlie Ward at this point. Remember that everyone thought it was ridiculous for Ward to go to the NBA at that time...

This is really getting more amusing all the time. Can you think of any major sports where 46 year olds compete successfully in top competitions? Think .... or, you know, just ask Chuck.

And as for Paulus playing QB ... oh, nevermind.

[MIKESJ73]

Wasn't UNC's Ronald Curry the #1 QB and #1 PG coming out of high school? He turned out to be not that great in either. I think the #2 QB in his VA high school district was a dog fighter named Michael Vick. High School rankings don't mean anything except that there is potential.

I don't know GP but you know how athlete's always seem to second guess things when their careers near an end/change (ie Jordans baseball stint, Farve (who is 1 inch taller than GP) retiring every year and so on). If he wanted to give football a chance, who better to practice with than Coach Cut. He has to be one of the best at developing NFL talent at the QB position. Even if he didn't play for the Blue Devils, if he showed up during the summer and practiced with the team, Coach could at least evaluate his talent and make a recommendation. Do you not think that the idea has not crossed Gregs mind?

[Kedsy]

Ok - maybe it isn't ping pong. Bowling perhaps?! Sorry bout 46 year olds don't go pro where I'm from in much of anything.

Jamie Moyer will be 46 in December, and he pitched a heckuva game in the World Series.

[Indoor66]

Jamie Moyer will be 46 in December, and he pitched a heckuva game in the World Series.

Seems I recall Jack Nicklaus winning the Masters when he was 46 - in 1986.

[SupaDave]

Jamie Moyer will be 46 in December, and he pitched a heckuva game in the World Series.

For the record guys - I was just having a little fun with this thread b/c it seemed like such a 'what if?'

We have skated between the possibility of Paulus playing football and the actuality of Paulus playing football. Neither of which I think is probable b/c he's long stated that he wants to be a basketball coach. We've done everything but put pads on Paulus (with some even transferring him to Notre Dame who have QBs on hold right now).

As far as Duke goes, 46 year olds DO compete at the pro level in many sports (Moyer has been a pro since 1986) but not only are they few and far between but most don't walk right off the street and do it in sports frequently dominated by young folks - especially those that involve physical contact.

[Indoor66]

As far as Duke goes, 46 year olds DO compete at the pro level in many sports (Moyer has been a pro since 1986) but not only are they few and far between but most don't walk right off the street and do it in sports frequently dominated by young folks - especially those that involve physical contact.

I would agree with you, generally. There have been a number of men who have joined the golf senior tour who never played professionally prior to reaching age 50.

[SupaDave]

High School rankings don't mean anything except that there is potential.

I disagree. A lot of the time those rankings are based on actual stats. There are things that can alter those stats and these things need to be identified (level of talent for starters) but mostly the good kids rise to the top.

Those rankings can also be badges of honor for some kids as they try to live up to the lofty expectations. These rankings can also be hubris for those that shrink under the pressure or turn off many colleges in an OJ Mayo/Lance Stephenson sort of way.

[SupaDave]

I would agree with you, generally. There have been a number of men who have joined the golf senior tour who never played professionally prior to reaching age 50.

But wouldn't that for the most part be an even playing field? An 'amateur' 50 year old playing against a 'pro' 50 year old probably only needs to gain tour experience. I doubt there's much that physically separates them.

[devildeac]

Ok - maybe it isn't ping pong. Bowling perhaps?! Sorry bout 46 year olds don't go pro where I'm from in much of anything.

Also, as a football player, I'd wager that Paulus has a LOT of Charlie Ward in him. Ward won the Heisman but those Florida State teams were STACKED at the time.

Even more inflammatory? I'd wager that if Paulus didn't have injuries early in his career he would be a better basketball player than Charlie Ward at this point. Remember that everyone thought it was ridiculous for Ward to go to the NBA at that time...

No, it's not bowling either;).

Not Olympic swimming either, despite our 41 (or was it 42) year old medal winner this summer:rolleyes:.

Baseball would be a fair guess but duketaylor is not Jamie Moyer (sp?)...

[Jumbo]

For the record guys - I was just having a little fun with this thread b/c it seemed like such a 'what if?'

We have skated between the possibility of Paulus playing football and the actuality of Paulus playing football. Neither of which I think is probable b/c he's long stated that he wants to be a basketball coach. We've done everything but put pads on Paulus (with some even transferring him to Notre Dame who have QBs on hold right now).

As far as Duke goes, 46 year olds DO compete at the pro level in many sports (Moyer has been a pro since 1986) but not only are they few and far between but most don't walk right off the street and do it in sports frequently dominated by young folks - especially those that involve physical contact.

Good thing Duketaylor's sport doesn't involve physical contact. Keep guessing!

[Acymetric]

Good thing Duketaylor's sport doesn't involve physical contact. Keep guessing!

Tennis?

[Bluedog]

Good thing Duketaylor's sport doesn't involve physical contact. Keep guessing!

All-American golfer.

Oh, I ruined the guessing game, but Jim Sumner already did that earlier in the thread if you read it. ;) Plus, somebody else gave duketaylor's actual name - google is your friend.

[BlueintheFace]

... this thread is still rolling? I'm impressed.

[devildeac]

All-American golfer.

We were trying to get SupaDave to figure it out, especially after his ping-pong and bowling guesses:p.

[Bluedog]

We were trying to get SupaDave to figure it out, especially after his ping-pong and bowling guesses:p.

Yeah, it was too painful to watch. I needed it to end. :D Plus, as I said, the answer was already stated on page 3 of this thread.

[SupaDave]

We were trying to get SupaDave to figure it out, especially after his ping-pong and bowling guesses:p.

I was informed shortly after the post actually (and I appreciate it) BUT there's STILL not a lot of 46 year olds busting tail off the street!

[formerdukeathlete]

The point of Chuck's post is that folks with superior talent (like his in golf) can pick up a sport and quickly get back to where they were.

Bobby Jones played golf part of the year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jones_(golfer) mixing in studies at Georgia Tech, Emory, and Harvard in the midst of his playing career. Yet, when he picked up his clubs, he was quickly in championship form.

Is it not ironic that we just got a verbal for 2010 in Football who is also approved to walk-on in Basketball. What, play both sports at Duke, how crazy?!

Greg Paulus was offered the qb job at Notre Dame and Miami, without assurances, but with the expectation that he would be the starter and that an offense would be built around him. Renfree was not offered by either school. Miami's interest in Lewis was limited to as an "athlete" and they did not offer for that because he did not meet their threshold. Asack was offered by Notre Dame, but as a d-back, potential tight end, not as a qb. The guys who determine whom to offer have more experience and capability than many posters. Chuck's point is well-founded, Paulus has superior talent. Many agree that he might have been better suited for Football. At the end of the day, if he wants, he will be looking at a free year of graduate school somewhere with a chance to play Football. If Duke does not offer him that chance, he may go elsewhere and then return to Duke after that to work with K. What is baseless about this speculation? Certainly not that Greg Paulus was much more highly recruited as a quarterback than any of our current qbs. Oh, yeah, anyone out there know Greg's dad, or speak with Dr. White on this matter, as to your assertions that this is so obviously an impossibility.

[jimsumner]

What, pray tell, does Kevin White have to do with any of this?

I'm pretty sure he and Coach Cutcliffe don't get together and discuss the depth chart on a regular basis.

[devildeac]

Like the new title for this well-worn thread/topic;):rolleyes:

[yancem]

The point of Chuck's post is that folks with superior talent (like his in golf) can pick up a sport and quickly get back to where they were.

Bobby Jones played golf part of the year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jones_(golfer) mixing in studies at Georgia Tech, Emory, and Harvard in the midst of his playing career. Yet, when he picked up his clubs, he was quickly in championship form.

Is it not ironic that we just got a verbal for 2010 in Football who is also approved to walk-on in Basketball. What, play both sports at Duke, how crazy?!

Greg Paulus was offered the qb job at Notre Dame and Miami, without assurances, but with the expectation that he would be the starter and that an offense would be built around him. Renfree was not offered by either school. Miami's interest in Lewis was limited to as an "athlete" and they did not offer for that because he did not meet their threshold. Asack was offered by Notre Dame, but as a d-back, potential tight end, not as a qb. The guys who determine whom to offer have more experience and capability than many posters. Chuck's point is well-founded, Paulus has superior talent. Many agree that he might have been better suited for Football. At the end of the day, if he wants, he will be looking at a free year of graduate school somewhere with a chance to play Football. If Duke does not offer him that chance, he may go elsewhere and then return to Duke after that to work with K. What is baseless about this speculation? Certainly not that Greg Paulus was much more highly recruited as a quarterback than any of our current qbs. Oh, yeah, anyone out there know Greg's dad, or speak with Dr. White on this matter, as to your assertions that this is so obviously an impossibility.

I think the two most important questions are 1) does he want to play football next year? and 2) Are schools interested in gambling on him for only 1 year? I would think that a school would have to be either hurting for a qb or have a pretty bad team to use a scholarship on a player who has been out of the sport for 4 years and can only be of service for 1. I don't doubt that he has the talent to play college football if he is given enough time to get back into his grove but it would likely take most of a season to do so.

[Papa John]

The point of Chuck's post is that folks with superior talent (like his in golf) can pick up a sport and quickly get back to where they were.

Bobby Jones played golf part of the year http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Jones_(golfer) mixing in studies at Georgia Tech, Emory, and Harvard in the midst of his playing career. Yet, when he picked up his clubs, he was quickly in championship form.

Is it not ironic that we just got a verbal for 2010 in Football who is also approved to walk-on in Basketball. What, play both sports at Duke, how crazy?!

Greg Paulus was offered the qb job at Notre Dame and Miami, without assurances, but with the expectation that he would be the starter and that an offense would be built around him. Renfree was not offered by either school. Miami's interest in Lewis was limited to as an "athlete" and they did not offer for that because he did not meet their threshold. Asack was offered by Notre Dame, but as a d-back, potential tight end, not as a qb. The guys who determine whom to offer have more experience and capability than many posters. Chuck's point is well-founded, Paulus has superior talent. Many agree that he might have been better suited for Football. At the end of the day, if he wants, he will be looking at a free year of graduate school somewhere with a chance to play Football. If Duke does not offer him that chance, he may go elsewhere and then return to Duke after that to work with K. What is baseless about this speculation? Certainly not that Greg Paulus was much more highly recruited as a quarterback than any of our current qbs. Oh, yeah, anyone out there know Greg's dad, or speak with Dr. White on this matter, as to your assertions that this is so obviously an impossibility.

This is nuts! We're comparing golf in the era of Bobby Jones to Division 1 college football?

Paulus may have indeed been a superior QB talent during his high school career, but he hasn't honed that skill set for four years. Putting aside for a moment the fact that the college game is a dramatic step up from the competition Greg played in HS both speed- and skill-wise... It generally takes at least a season for a QB to truly learn an offensive system, then another season to actually grow comfortable and come up to speed within that system. What coach in their right mind would possibly burn a scholarship on an unproven QB who would simply be around for that first season of learning, with a guarantee of absolutely no payoff in ensuing years due to lack of eligibility?

[SupaDave]

This is nuts! We're comparing golf in the era of Bobby Jones to Division 1 college football?

Paulus may have indeed been a superior QB talent during his high school career, but he hasn't honed that skill set for four years. Putting aside for a moment the fact that the college game is a dramatic step up from the competition Greg played in HS both speed- and skill-wise... It generally takes at least a season for a QB to truly learn an offensive system, then another season to actually grow comfortable and come up to speed within that system. What coach in their right mind would possibly burn a scholarship on an unproven QB who would simply be around for that first season of learning, with a guarantee of absolutely no payoff in ensuing years due to lack of eligibility?

Don't know about the coaches being in their right mind BUT...

Actually this is easy:

Professionally - the New York Jets

College - Jacksonville State THIS year...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3396155

[formerdukeathlete]

This is nuts! We're comparing golf in the era of Bobby Jones to Division 1 college football?

Paulus may have indeed been a superior QB talent during his high school career, but he hasn't honed that skill set for four years. Putting aside for a moment the fact that the college game is a dramatic step up from the competition Greg played in HS both speed- and skill-wise... It generally takes at least a season for a QB to truly learn an offensive system, then another season to actually grow comfortable and come up to speed within that system. What coach in their right mind would possibly burn a scholarship on an unproven QB who would simply be around for that first season of learning, with a guarantee of absolutely no payoff in ensuing years due to lack of eligibility?

PJ, Paulus is a lot smarter than you give him credit for, and in the three years he has had off, so far, these are not years off of athletic endeavor. In fact, notwithstanding injuries, Paulus appears quicker to this poster now than he was as a freshman. Asack and Lewis started as true freshman learning the system. Paulus is fully emersed with d-1 speed, as a point guard. I suggest watching some of his film from high school. Guy could scramble, throw on the run, throw from the pocket. His passes were just about always catchable, on the money. Breaking down in fundamentals, which if you listen to Cut's comments about our game with Wake, is what happened when we went for broke in OT, with a qb thinking "touchdown, touchdown," jumping the gun and not protecting the ball. Greg had absolutely superior fundamentals in high school. He would bring that to one year of college ball. Decision making is a skill honed as a point guard.

As to what programs might consider giving Greg a scholarship and or a roster spot. I am pretty certain most would give him a roster spot. Some would give up one of their scholarships, after a successful tryout, especially considering that it is only one year.

[MulletMan]

Don't know about the coaches being in their right mind BUT...

Actually this is easy:

Professionally - the New York Jets

College - Jacksonville State THIS year...
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=3396155

ummm... OK, how many ways is Perilloux different from Paulus?

1. He just played on the National Championship team last year in arguably one of the best conferences in college football.
2. He will have 2 years of eligibility at JSU, because he dropped down to the FCS subdivision and therefore didn't have to sit out a year.
3. He will play against inferior competetition.
4. He was low risk because the coaches had seen him play for 2 years at LSU.
5. His offseason energies have been focused on football, not another sport, during his time at LSU. Well, football and drinking, apparently.

The situation is analagous only because you're talking about a QB who transfered. Other than that, there's not a lick of similiarity.

[SupaDave]

ummm... OK, how many ways is Perilloux different from Paulus?

1. He just played on the National Championship team last year in arguably one of the best conferences in college football.
2. He will have 2 years of eligibility at JSU, because he dropped down to the FCS subdivision and therefore didn't have to sit out a year.
3. He will play against inferior competetition.
4. He was low risk because the coaches had seen him play for 2 years at LSU.
5. His offseason energies have been focused on football, not another sport, during his time at LSU. Well, football and drinking, apparently.

The situation is analagous only because you're talking about a QB who transfered. Other than that, there's not a lick of similiarity.


What coach in their right mind would possibly burn a scholarship on an unproven QB who would simply be around for that first season of learning, with a guarantee of absolutely no payoff in ensuing years due to lack of eligibility?

Hmmm... Aren't we talking about the possibility of Paulus playing anywhere?

Let's take a look... Jacksonville State DID take a chance of Ryan P.

1) Correction - he WATCHED the National Championship game from the sidelines.

2) Two years of eligibility - yes - but there's no guarantee he stays healthy (or eligible) after year one. He's been in all kinds of messy situations.

3) Inferior competition? Possibly but his first game this year was against Georgia Tech. For two seasons at LSU, he backed up starters JaMarcus Russell and Matt Flynn. He's been a career back-up QB. He's in D-1AA now but I think App State has proven that you can't sleep on these teams too often. But what's the level of competition got to do with ACTUALLY playing? Playing is playing.

4) Redshirt in 2005, 3rd string QB who threw one pass in 2006, Excellent performance in TWO starts (one against Middle Tennesee) on a stacked team in 2007. Even Rex Grossman has had some good games. He was STILL taken based on potential b/c he had no laundry list of stats (but he did have lists of other things). And I repeat - he had played in THREE games...

5) SUSPENDED three times in ONE year.

-On May 22, 2007, LSU head coach Les Miles suspended Perrilloux from the football team indefinitely after the player was issued a misdemeanor summons by police when he allegedly tried to use his brother’s driver’s license to get onto the Hollywood Casino gambling boat.

-On February 18, 2008, Coach Miles indefinitely suspended Perrilloux for violating team rules. Perrilloux's transgressions included missing classes, workouts and at least one team meeting.

-On May 2, 2008, LSU head coach Les Miles kicked Perrilloux off the team for "not fulfilling his obligation" as an LSU student-athlete.[19] He is reported to have a failed a drug test due to marijuana, missed a team meeting, skipped classes and was late for a handful of conditioning workouts.

-May 14, 2008 - GONE...

Perrilloux's situation actually makes Paulus looks like a GREAT grab. Different in MANY ways but most of them are in favor of a team taking a chance on Paulus.

Oh and he's playing great right now. So you're telling me that a team wouldn't take a chance on Paulus?

Injuries happen and what Coach wouldn't want an athletic, smart, tough, mature, back-up QB?

[DukieBoy]

He still has 4 years of football eligibility left. Put him in a football uni and lets see him starting layin' people out and throwing bombs downfield :D

[Carlos]

I think that with the way the NCAA regulations are he would only have 1 year of football eligibility. I could be wrong, but the way I remember the regulation is that you have 5 years to complete your athletic career, regardless of the sport and 4 years of playing time in any one sport. Exemptions can be granted for injury or if you go on a Mormon mission.

[CDu]

As Carlos pointed out, Greg has one more year to play a varsity sport (other than basketball). He would have to be enrolled in school, of course. This can be at Duke or somewhere else, even d-1a. I know of one BCS program which is interested in talking with Greg about playing Football in the fall. Their hoops team also is still in the tourney. Greg has to be interested, but if he is interested, his Football career does not have to be over.

First, I'd be shocked if Paulus (having not played a down of football in 4 years and never at a college level) would be capable of playing at a Division-I level next year. That's not a knock on Paulus - it's just incredibly unlikely that ANY kid who hasn't played above the high school level (and hasn't played for four years) would be able to compete right away.

Further, don't the NCAA transfer rules still apply even though it's a different sport? In other words, wouldn't he be unable to transfer to another Division-1 FBS school without sitting out the year? If so, that would suggest his options are Duke or a Division-I FCS school only, as next year would be his fifth.

Regardless of the second point, I simply can't see Paulus being a capable D-1 QB next year after so much time and zero exposure to that level of competition.

[DukieBoy]

First, I'd be shocked if Paulus (having not played a down of football in 4 years and never at a college level) would be capable of playing at a Division-I level next year. That's not a knock on Paulus - it's just incredibly unlikely that ANY kid who hasn't played above the high school level (and hasn't played for four years) would be able to compete right away.

Further, don't the NCAA transfer rules still apply even though it's a different sport? In other words, wouldn't he be unable to transfer to another Division-1 FBS school without sitting out the year? If so, that would suggest his options are Duke or a Division-I FCS school only, as next year would be his fifth.

Regardless of the second point, I simply can't see Paulus being a capable D-1 QB next year after so much time and zero exposure to that level of competition.

Couldn't Greg just enroll at graduate school at Duke and play on their football team? No transfer rules apply and he could get one more year of the Duke environment.

[CDu]

Couldn't Greg just enroll at graduate school at Duke and play on their football team? No transfer rules apply and he could get one more year of the Duke environment.

I'm sure he could (assuming Duke had scholarship space), but would you really want to suffer through graduate courses and football practices just to be a backup QB for a bad football team? He'd really have to want to experience one more year of the Duke environment to subject himself to that much work.

[Duvall]

I'm sure he could (assuming Duke had scholarship space), but would you really want to suffer through graduate courses and football practices just to be a backup QB for a bad football team? He'd really have to want to experience one more year of the Duke environment to subject himself to that much work.

Plus, he's much too short to ever be an effective quarterback.

[calltheobvious]

Plus, he's much too short to ever be an effective quarterback.

I'm guessing this comment is a joke related to previous discussions I missed? Because otherwise...

[formerdukeathlete]

First, I'd be shocked if Paulus (having not played a down of football in 4 years and never at a college level) would be capable of playing at a Division-I level next year. That's not a knock on Paulus - it's just incredibly unlikely that ANY kid who hasn't played above the high school level (and hasn't played for four years) would be able to compete right away.

Further, don't the NCAA transfer rules still apply even though it's a different sport? In other words, wouldn't he be unable to transfer to another Division-1 FBS school without sitting out the year? If so, that would suggest his options are Duke or a Division-I FCS school only, as next year would be his fifth.

Regardless of the second point, I simply can't see Paulus being a capable D-1 QB next year after so much time and zero exposure to that level of competition.

It is my understanding that if Greg puts on a Duke Football uniform and attends spring practice that this will complicate things and may relegate him to being able to achieve this final year of eligibility only through the Duke team. Aside from that, I believe he would be able to attend graduate school and play Football at another Bowl Championship Subdivision team. The old rule was for redshirts who had another year, if the school had an academic program not at Duke etc. - how Tyler Krieg and Zach Smith tranferred to Cal. Because Greg had not played Football at Duke, I believe he is a go.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2007-08_transfer_guidec7590eb0-e93f-402f-9451-84976b622c7e.pdf

What I can say is that another Bowl Division team with a better Football program than Duke is interested. They also have a better hoops program at the moment, based on performance in the tourney. as to the joke about height, Greg's height would put him in the middle of Duke's current 1-2 punch at qb.

[CDu]

It is my understanding that if Greg puts on a Duke Football uniform and attends spring practice that this will complicate things and may relegate him to being able to achieve this final year of eligibility only through the Duke team. Aside from that, I believe he would be able to attend graduate school and play Football at another Bowl Championship Subdivision team. The old rule was for redshirts who had another year, if the school had an academic program not at Duke etc. - how Tyler Krieg and Zach Smith tranferred to Cal. Because Greg had not played Football at Duke, I believe he is a go.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/2007-08_transfer_guidec7590eb0-e93f-402f-9451-84976b622c7e.pdf

What I can say is that another Bowl Division team with a better Football program than Duke is interested. They also have a better hoops program at the moment, based on performance in the tourney. as to the joke about height, Greg's height would put him in the middle of Duke's current 1-2 punch at qb.

Your response may answer one of my questions, but it doesn't address the other more important issue. I'd be SHOCKED if Paulus was able to compete at the D-I level next year. He hasn't put on the pads in four years. He hasn't played anywhere near the level of competition that he'd see in D-I college football.

Nearly all top-tier QB coming out of high school sit out a year or two before taking the reins for a D-I program. Paulus was at one point such a prospect, but he's undoubtedly rusty after four years away from the game. I really couldn't see him being anything more than a backup for his one year of eligibility.

[spifi]

And wasn't Mike Paulus more highly regarded as a qb coming out of high school? At least a little? Or do I have that backwards? I know ND and I think Miami recruited Greg, so if Mike ended up at UNC perhaps I do have that backwards. Mike's not setting the world on fire, and they're different guys. I agree, though, I just don't see a guy who hasn't put on pads in four years able to jump in and be effective in one year at any kind of elite level, anyway.

That said, if he thought he had ANY kind of shot at an NFL career he might try it at a non-elite school where he was fairly guaranteed to be "the man." But it sounds like he's more interested in coaching basketball than playing football, so all that talk might be moot...

[CDu]

And wasn't Mike Paulus more highly regarded as a qb coming out of high school? At least a little? Or do I have that backwards? I know ND and I think Miami recruited Greg, so if Mike ended up at UNC perhaps I do have that backwards. Mike's not setting the world on fire, and they're different guys. I agree, though, I just don't see a guy who hasn't put on pads in four years able to jump in and be effective in one year at any kind of elite level, anyway.

That said, if he thought he had ANY kind of shot at an NFL career he might try it at a non-elite school where he was fairly guaranteed to be "the man." But it sounds like he's more interested in coaching basketball than playing football, so all that talk might be moot...

Greg Paulus was considered (at least reportedly - once he committed to Duke for bball, I suspect the rating slid) to be among the very top high school QB available. I'm not sure if Mike was that big a prospect or not (could be though).

I agree that it will probably be moot. And I also agree that - even given his pedigree - all that time away from the game combined with the fact that most kids need to learn for a year or two anyway has me suspecting he's not going to be a starting D-I FBS QB next year.

[geraldsneighbor]

Is there actually real talk of GP playing College Football now? I'm a little confused. It has to be a joke right? Hasn't he exhausted all his eligibility?

[formerdukeathlete]

Is there actually real talk of GP playing College Football now? I'm a little confused. It has to be a joke right? Hasn't he exhausted all his eligibility?

Greg may play Football in the fall, for Duke or another school, bowl division, or 1-aa, in which he has enrolled. He does not have to sit out, because to date, he has not played Football for Duke. He has 5 years to complete up to 4 years eligibility in any one sport.

CDu, Yes, I am aware of the negativity regarding Greg's prospects were he to don a Football uniform. Often, these are expressed, im view, by folks who have strong rooting interests in Duke's quarterbacks, as Greg might (remote chance, sure) possibly unseat a 3 year starter were he to join the Duke team.

What I can tell you based on communicating with the offensive coordinator of a better Football school than Duke is that a bowl division team is interested. Not saying that Greg will go for it.

FYI, Greg's high school football accolades included:

2005 Gatorade National Male Athlete of the Year (all sports)
2005 Gatorade New York state Player of the Year
Four-time all-state
All-America status in 2005 according to Parade, EA and Student Sports
National High School Coaches Association senior athlete of the year
2004 Gatorade National Football Player of the Year

Anyone remember Sam Clancy at Pitt, of Eugene Banks era? Sure, he played d line and not qb in the NFL for about 6 years. One thing you might not realize is that he did not play Football in college.

[SupaDave]

Greg may play Football in the fall, for Duke or another school, bowl division, or 1-aa, in which he has enrolled. He does not have to sit out, because to date, he has not played Football for Duke. He has 5 years to complete up to 4 years eligibility in any one sport.

CDu, Yes, I am aware of the negativity regarding Greg's prospects were he to don a Football uniform. Often, these are expressed, im view, by folks who have strong rooting interests in Duke's quarterbacks, as Greg might (remote chance, sure) possibly unseat a 3 year starter were he to join the Duke team.

What I can tell you based on communicating with the offensive coordinator of a better Football school than Duke is that a bowl division team is interested. Not saying that Greg will go for it.

FYI, Greg's high school football accolades included:

2005 Gatorade National Male Athlete of the Year (all sports)
2005 Gatorade New York state Player of the Year
Four-time all-state
All-America status in 2005 according to Parade, EA and Student Sports
National High School Coaches Association senior athlete of the year
2004 Gatorade National Football Player of the Year

Anyone remember Sam Clancy at Pitt, of Eugene Banks era? Sure, he played d line and not qb in the NFL for about 6 years. One thing you might not realize is that he did not play Football in college.

There is already a thread devoted to Paulus and football. All posts regarding the topic are being moved there.

[jma4life]

What's the nature of the graduate program he would have to enroll in. Could he enroll in a small one year masters program or certificate type program at a school, or would he have to actually be admitted into a full time master's or professional degree program?

Also, when players who redshirt in basketball play a fifth year at Duke, do they need a full load for that semester. Or could they be part time students taking one or two classes?

[formerdukeathlete]

What's the nature of the graduate program he would have to enroll in. Could he enroll in a small one year masters program or certificate type program at a school, or would he have to actually be admitted into a full time master's or professional degree program?

Also, when players who redshirt in basketball play a fifth year at Duke, do they need a full load for that semester. Or could they be part time students taking one or two classes?

Marcus Jones is now playing baseball at Duke. He is a senior in his 4th year (was not redshirted), will graduate in May, and will have another year, a 5th year, to play another baseball season. 5 years to complete up to 4 years elibility in any sport. Had he not joined the baseball team this spring, he could have gone to another school in the fall and then played baseball there, without sitting out, since he would not have (in that case) played baseball at Duke. Always have to be a full-time student. In Marcus Jones case, the following suggests he might be able to extend his undergrad curriculum to include another major

http://www.northwestgeorgia.com/sports/local_story_075225208.html?keyword=secondarystory

[cspan37421]

I, for one, look forward to our football team being led by Dr. Greg Paulus.

[OZZIE4DUKE]

I, for one, look forward to our football team being led by Dr. Greg Paulus.
He's not going to have THAT much eligibility! Besides, I'm looking forward to seeing Sean Renfree emerge as an outstanding college QB, whether as a starter next year or as a backup to Thad Lewis.

If you're talking about leading Duke as a coach (off topic "I'm going to Mars" readers would chuckle if I said couch here :rolleyes:), then I think it's more likely he would be our basketball coach than football coach. And fast forward 20 years and I think that is a possibility!

[SupaDave]

It's not about beating them out really. It SHOULD be about making the team and going pro - which is how this started I think.

The combines are where MANY future NFL players make their mark. A good combine and a few good team workouts and Paulus could be a last day pick. He'd EASILY be in the best shape of most of the QBs and have an outstanding QB vision.

One has to look no further than two Chase's from Missouri this year to know that you don't have to be a starter to get drafted (or Matt Cassell for that matter).

Oh and I think folks are just getting warmed up!

And we're back to baseless speculation about Paulus and Football again. :)