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View Full Version : Greivis Vasquez is a jerk!



wolfpackdevil
03-01-2009, 09:35 PM
If you were watching the NC State/UMD game, Maryland pulled away in the final minutes.

Vasquez shot and nailed a 3 at the buzzer to make the lead 10.

A very unclassy move by a jerky player.

One of the worst sports in the league, just like his coach.

jv001
03-01-2009, 09:38 PM
If you were watching the NC State/UMD game, Maryland pulled away in the final minutes.

Vasquez shot and nailed a 3 at the buzzer to make the lead 10.

A very unclassy move by a jerky player.

One of the worst sports in the league, just like his coach.

Vasquez is either a jerk, just doesn't get it, or is really really stupid. That was not classy play. He better remember; what goes around comes around. Go Duke!

Newton_14
03-01-2009, 09:41 PM
That's the maryland twerps for you. Doing what they do best. Either losing with no class, or winning with no class.

Was hoping State could pull that one out. Any win the twerps get from here on out will add fuel to their whining to get into the dance. I normally hope to see as many of the ACC teams as possible get into the NCAA Tourney, but after this week I hope to see both the twerps and the hokies in the NIT.

NDMD
03-01-2009, 09:48 PM
In a game in which he allowed to play over 35 minutes, Greivis again was able to put Maryland on his back, score 30 points and get a win on the road. The fact the the State fans loudly razzed him at the end of the game ended up being their problem.

He replied to the hecklers by dropping the 3-pointer on them to end the game.

Don't dish it out, if you can't take the heat in reply.

allenmurray
03-01-2009, 09:51 PM
In a game in which he allowed to play over 35 minutes, Greivis again was able to put Maryland on his back, score 30 points and get a win on the road. The fact the the State fans loudly razzed him at the end of the game ended up being their problem.

He replied to the hecklers by dropping the 3-pointer on them to end the game.

Don't dish it out, if you can't take the heat in reply.

Well, you are wrong. No one was guarding him. The NCSU players knew the game was over, stayed under the basket expecting him to dribble out the clock in the corner (like the other 99% of players do). Instead he launched an unguarded shot. There is no glory in that.

wolfpackdevil
03-01-2009, 09:52 PM
In a game in which he allowed to play over 35 minutes, Greivis again was able to put Maryland on his back, score 30 points and get a win on the road. The fact the the State fans loudly razzed him at the end of the game ended up being their problem.

He replied to the hecklers by dropping the 3-pointer on them to end the game.

Don't dish it out, if you can't take the heat in reply.

I never saw JJ shoot a last second 3 in a game that was already won. Im not baggin Vasquez, but if Gary is ok with him doing what he did, then theres a real problem in that

Sixthman
03-01-2009, 09:53 PM
Well, you are wrong. No one was guarding him. The NCSU players knew the game was over, stayed under the basket expecting him to dribble out the clock in the corner (like the other 99% of players do). Instead he launched an unguarded shot. There is no glory in that.

he could play for roy

Acymetric
03-01-2009, 09:57 PM
he could play for roy

No, Roy only lets his players go for dunks or big plays inside where there is a chance for physical contact and some kind of reaction, right?

In all seriousness though, who really cares? Poor sportsmanship? A little. But honestly at this point for Maryland to succeed they need that kind of attitude. And he wasn't going around shoving people or throwing elbows (a la Seth and his Hokies), he just shot a 3 at the last second. Do you really feel that offended as a State fan or player in that situation. I don't see this as any different than players taking shots during deadball situations, like after a foul/travel/time out. It was a little classless, sure, but it posed no harm to anyone, and really wasn't that offensive. Get over it. Know what keeps things like that from happening? Winning.

wolfpackdevil
03-01-2009, 10:01 PM
No, Roy only lets his players go for dunks or big plays inside where there is a chance for physical contact and some kind of reaction, right?

In all seriousness though, who really cares? Poor sportsmanship? A little. But honestly at this point for Maryland to succeed they need that kind of attitude. And he wasn't going around shoving people or throwing elbows (a la Seth and his Hokies), he just shot a 3 at the last second. Do you really feel that offended as a State fan or player in that situation. I don't see this as any different than players taking shots during deadball situations, like after a foul/travel/time out. It was a little classless, sure, but it posed no harm to anyone, and really wasn't that offensive. Get over it. Know what keeps things like that from happening? Winning.

Yes, I am offended as a State fan. Both teams played a good, clean 39 minutes and 55 seconds. Even Gary Williams was calm and collected for most of the game. It was a good old fahion ACC game. I had wished Vasquez was playing for state until he shot that at the end.

And you dont need an attitude of running up the score to win a couple games and make the NCAA tournament. You just have to play good.

allenmurray
03-01-2009, 10:01 PM
In a game in which he allowed to play over 35 minutes, Greivis again was able to put Maryland on his back, score 30 points and get a win on the road. The fact the the State fans loudly razzed him at the end of the game ended up being their problem.

He replied to the hecklers by dropping the 3-pointer on them to end the game.

Don't dish it out, if you can't take the heat in reply.

The North Carolina State University Basketball Team was playing against the University of Maryland Basketball Team. It wasn't Greivis vs. the NCSU fans. The players matched up in a well played, fair, and hard fought game. But instead of respecting that, Greivis had to "stick it" to the fans. So rather than finish the game with a show of respect to other players who battled hard, he finished the game looking like a punk. It was quickly pointed out by both announcers. For 39 minutes and 57 seconds Greivis conducted himself like a classy ball player. Then, to get back at some fans, he threw away his image and showed disrespect to ther other team. He is a great basketball player, but shows very little maturity.

Newton_14
03-01-2009, 10:02 PM
In a game in which he allowed to play over 35 minutes, Greivis again was able to put Maryland on his back, score 30 points and get a win on the road. The fact the the State fans loudly razzed him at the end of the game ended up being their problem.

He replied to the hecklers by dropping the 3-pointer on them to end the game.

Don't dish it out, if you can't take the heat in reply.

He could have played over 35 minutes in the Duke game had he not fouled so much. Also, in the game in Durham (at His House) he played plenty of minutes and put his team on his back. He carried them to a 41 point drubbing with his stellar play that day. Enjoy watching him in the NIT...

allenmurray
03-01-2009, 10:03 PM
Go wolfpackdevil - represent that old school class in ACC basketball, not the new breed of street play. Sometmes it is hard to believe you are the youngest regular poster on DBR - you actually "get it".

gw67
03-01-2009, 10:04 PM
Dumb play by Vasquez at the end of the game but it doesn't overshadow a terrific game by him and a tough win on the road by the Terps. Sidney is a local guy but I am not impressed by his coaching in this game. At the beginning of the year, I figured the Terps would probably win 7 games but that assumed that Dupree would develop and be a solid presence at center not a 6-6 Dave Neal. If they win one of their remaining two games to finish at 8-8, Williams ought to get some consideration as COY in ACC.

gw67

tendev
03-01-2009, 10:14 PM
No, Roy only lets his players go for dunks or big plays inside where there is a chance for physical contact and some kind of reaction, right?

In all seriousness though, who really cares? Poor sportsmanship? A little. But honestly at this point for Maryland to succeed they need that kind of attitude. And he wasn't going around shoving people or throwing elbows (a la Seth and his Hokies), he just shot a 3 at the last second. Do you really feel that offended as a State fan or player in that situation. I don't see this as any different than players taking shots during deadball situations, like after a foul/travel/time out. It was a little classless, sure, but it posed no harm to anyone, and really wasn't that offensive. Get over it. Know what keeps things like that from happening? Winning.

I must be getting old and sentimental for a time when teams won with class and fans expected it.

Acymetric
03-01-2009, 10:19 PM
I must be getting old and sentimental for a time when teams won with class and fans expected it.

Hey, I wouldn't like it if a Duke player did it, and I don't really like it that Vasquez did it. But it just isn't that big a deal. I would welcome last second 3's in every game if it meant getting rid of the dangerous, physical form of punkish behavior that is the real problem in basketball. I don't encourage or enjoy this type of classlessness, but I certainly don't get worked up about it. Let me know when he throws an elbow, a punch, or hits someone in the nuts. Thats the kind of play that gets me upset. This? It just isn't that big a deal.

captmojo
03-01-2009, 10:20 PM
I wonder if that shot might be the focus of interest in a report on ESPN? :rolleyes:

NDMD
03-01-2009, 10:24 PM
I must be getting old and sentimental for a time when teams won with class and fans expected it.

Gosh, it sure seems that the fans in Carolina have subjective memories because I can distinctly remember a thunderous, unguarded throw-down jam to end a Maryland-Carollina game in Cole Field House by none other than Michael Jordan when that game was over, as well.

I guess MJ was a classless jerk as well.

gep
03-01-2009, 10:28 PM
Hey, I wouldn't like it if a Duke player did it, and I don't really like it that Vasquez did it. But it just isn't that big a deal. I would welcome last second 3's in every game if it meant getting rid of the dangerous, physical form of punkish behavior that is the real problem in basketball. I don't encourage or enjoy this type of classlessness, but I certainly don't get worked up about it. Let me know when he throws an elbow, a punch, or hits someone in the nuts. Thats the kind of play that gets me upset. This? It just isn't that big a deal.

With all due respect, I think sportsmanship is sportsmanship. I don't think there's different "kinds" or "levels" of sportmanship. Shooting an un-guarded 3 pointer when *no one* is playing any kind of defense, with the clock expiring... well, I just don't like it... just like I don't like all of the other kinds of "punkish" behavior you mention...:(

arnie
03-01-2009, 10:29 PM
Yes, I am offended as a State fan. Both teams played a good, clean 39 minutes and 55 seconds. Even Gary Williams was calm and collected for most of the game. It was a good old fahion ACC game. I had wished Vasquez was playing for state until he shot that at the end.

And you dont need an attitude of running up the score to win a couple games and make the NCAA tournament. You just have to play good.

I guess State fans have been offended a lot over the last 20 years. The heckling was extreme, maybe he shouldn't have done, but respect the player and the effort and the 3 probably isn't shot.

Acymetric
03-01-2009, 10:31 PM
I guess State fans have been offended a lot over the last 20 years. The heckling was extreme, maybe he shouldn't have done, but respect the player and the effort and the 3 probably isn't shot.

Out of curiosity, what was being said by the fans?

Devilsfan
03-01-2009, 10:48 PM
State fans got what they asked for. Don't offend opposing players that are that good and that competitive and they won't put an extra nail in your NCAA tourney coffin. When Md fans came out from under the rocks where they probably live and chanted FU JJ. I wish he would have scored fifty.

jgehtland
03-01-2009, 10:53 PM
Gosh, it sure seems that the fans in Carolina have subjective memories because I can distinctly remember a thunderous, unguarded throw-down jam to end a Maryland-Carollina game in Cole Field House by none other than Michael Jordan when that game was over, as well.

I guess MJ was a classless jerk as well.

I don't think you'll get much argument from this group; this is a Duke board, remember? Michael Jordan WAS a classless jerk. ;-)

InSpades
03-01-2009, 10:58 PM
All I will say is I'm glad our guys don't pull that crap. To me it shows a ton of disrespect to the opposing team.

JG Nothing
03-01-2009, 11:16 PM
All I will say is I'm glad our guys don't pull that crap. To me it shows a ton of disrespect to the opposing team.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIGAzEZpJeI&feature=related

Lord Ash
03-01-2009, 11:24 PM
Eh, on a scale of 1-10, with 10 being utter jerkness, I would say shooting a 3 at the end like that is only around a 5. Basketball players like to shoot, and especially for a guy like G.V., you know he wants to shoot that and stick it to the State fans. I would rather see guys play hard every second of the game than expect them to just hold it for the last ten seconds, but we know that won't happen. Eh, not such a big deal.

And Kyle poking the ball away while a Clemson player woofs it up ain't so bad either. People need thicker skins I think.

InSpades
03-01-2009, 11:56 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIGAzEZpJeI&feature=related

Your point? Do you think those things are the same? Even remotely the same?

Cavlaw
03-01-2009, 11:58 PM
Your point? Do you think those things are the same? Even remotely the same?
You're right. I'm far less bothered by a casual shot at the end of a game.

dubayuw
03-02-2009, 12:04 AM
I think what Singler did was wrong, I'll admit that, but what vasquez did was worse. Singler's thing was done out of frustration after losing a BAD game while Vasquez's team won and the extra three was unecessary. He could have easily waited until after the buzzer and then shot if he wanted to shot so bad. But whatever, both were unclassy, Vasquez's was worse, but in the end I don't really care because it doesn't really matter.

InSpades
03-02-2009, 12:06 AM
Poke'ing the ball away from a guy who is basically trying to dribble and woof at the same time? I don't see anything wrong with that at all.

I'd much rather have guys who are bad losers than bad winners. Ideally you'd show sportsmanship in both situations but that's not entirely realistic.

cf-62
03-02-2009, 12:48 AM
I guess State fans have been offended a lot over the last 20 years. The heckling was extreme, maybe he shouldn't have done, but respect the player and the effort and the 3 probably isn't shot.

If you're not being guarded, and the game is over, putting up a shot is poor sportsmanship. Maybe GV had a bet on the game, and needed the spread to be bigger (I'm ONLY KIDDING).

In all seriousness, not ALL coaches believe in the dribble out the game thing. Interesting that twice this year, State has had an opponent pull a punk move on them in the last minute of the game, and that the Williams boys were the coaches of the opposing team.

brevity
03-02-2009, 01:16 AM
I thought Vasquez's unnecessary shot might have a "Great Moments in Gambling" element to it, but it had no impact here in Vegas either. Maryland was a 4-5 point favorite, and they won by 11. (Mind you, I'm NOT saying that anyone was doing anything illegal. It's just that many fans in my locality care out the game outcome even after the winner is pretty much decided.)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIGAzEZpJeI

Watch the video again; I wish it were of better quality. Singler's pop (0:14) was bad enough, but the thuggish display in the backcourt afterward (0:20) was worse. Sugarcoat it all you want, but it's bad sportsmanship dressed in a Duke uniform. I don't know if any ACC team is exempt from fault at this point.

Edit: Actually, the "watch in high quality" feature on YouTube (below the time bar) works for this video.

InSpades
03-02-2009, 01:34 AM
What exactly is "thuggish" about that? You are reading way too much into very little action.

brevity
03-02-2009, 02:03 AM
And now the high quality feature doesn't work. I don't understand YouTube.


What exactly is "thuggish" about that? You are reading way too much into very little action.

That "very little action" is exactly the physical posturing and gesture one would use when he desires the other person to flinch. There's no place for that at the college basketball level. If an opposing ACC player did that to us, we'd be calling for his head or, at the very least, we would mock him incessantly for reducing himself to that.

As I said back in the Clemson game thread, I hope it was dealt with internally, and I'm sort of glad for Duke's sake that the pop gets most of the attention for that game's ending.

allenmurray
03-02-2009, 07:45 AM
Dumb play by Vasquez at the end of the game but it doesn't overshadow a terrific game by him and a tough win on the road by the Terps. Sidney is a local guy but I am not impressed by his coaching in this game. At the beginning of the year, I figured the Terps would probably win 7 games but that assumed that Dupree would develop and be a solid presence at center not a 6-6 Dave Neal. If they win one of their remaining two games to finish at 8-8, Williams ought to get some consideration as COY in ACC.

gw67


I am a University of Maryland graduate who refuses to root for the team because of the boorish behavior of the fans and GW's complete lack of concern. He could stop it, or at least reduce it, if he chose to - the fact that he makes no effort shows his character. I was rooting hard for NCSU. Despite that I have no problem fully admitting it was a tremendous game by Vasquez. But look at what is being talked about. He did that to himself - he is allowing his play to be overshadowed by his attitude. We all know he can make an unguarded shot - what exactly did he prove?

bjornolf
03-02-2009, 08:07 AM
That "very little action" is exactly the physical posturing and gesture one would use when he desires the other person to flinch. There's no place for that at the college basketball level. If an opposing ACC player did that to us, we'd be calling for his head or, at the very least, we would mock him incessantly for reducing himself to that.

I watched that four times just now, and it looks to me like he just gets into defensive position in front of the guy. It doesn't look like he's moving aggressively TOWARDS him at all. He's moving COMPLETELY laterally to and WELL in front of the player, and drops into guarding position.

I talked to my dad about this and had him watch it again, and I trust his opinion of this more than anyone. My dad pulls for duke because of me, but to him, sportsmanship is FAR more important than anything else. Just for some background, his words regarding athletic competition have ALWAYS been "it's more important HOW you play a game than whether you win or lose". He plays hard and he plays to win, but he always plays clean and he NEVER complains. When I was 14, we played in a neighborhood doubles tournament for fathers and sons. In the semi-finals, it was a close match (third set, best of three sets, we were up 3-2 in the final set). When our opponents did a few questionable things like calling out balls that I thought were clearly in, I started complaining. He warned me. I calmed down. But then they did it again on game point to win the game and tie up the match, and I made an a** out of myself complaining. Dad packed up his gear and left and we forfeited the match. That's how important sportsmanship is to him, and I have PLENTY of other stories about that. He's the first to smile and shake hands and congratulate someone that beats him. He's also a very good winner. He expected the same of me, win or lose. Many times that I've complained about reffing in a game, he'll just laugh at me. The only time he EVER agreed with me about the reffing was the UConn championship game. He's complained about lack of sportsmanship by Duke players several times to me. He thought Laettner was a total punk for that stomp in the famous Kentucky game.

Anyway, background established. My dad watched this, and he had FAR more problem with a player turning his back on his opponent with time on the clock to wave up the crowd. As a military man, his words were "You NEVER turn your back on the enemy. That was very disrespectful. Kyle played through the whistle. The Clemson guy didn't. That's unforgivable, and he deserved it. Good for Kyle."

I agree with him. It's one thing for the players without the ball to wave up the crowd. That's fine. But the guy with the ball needs to play through the horn. Yes, it was a little chippy, but if my dad doesn't have a problem with it, then I don't.

4decadedukie
03-02-2009, 08:52 AM
This is the time in every season when pundits frequently allude to "the totality of the record,” or “the complete body of work,” and so forth. I believe that type of analysis should legitimately apply to individuals, as well as to teams. Vasquez’s boorish behavior isn’t limited to Sunday night’s “pour it on” unopposed three at the last second, nor to his “slitting the throat” gesture to the NCSU fans; after all, this is the same “gentlemen” who repeatedly “dropped the f-bomb” on his own fans in College Park. When he is “on game,” he is good; however, his comportment is – by any reasonable standards – unsatisfactory. Would any of us be proud of a child or a Duke student athlete who conducted himself in these ways – and others that are equally egregious? I certainly hope not!

cruxer
03-02-2009, 09:14 AM
I was always coached to play to the whistle. It's my firm belief that it's not my job to stop me; it's your job to stop me. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been more sporting to dribble out the clock, but I'm hesitant to call a guy a jerk for just playing ball. I have no proof of this, but I tend to believe that teams start the next game the way they finished the last.

Apparently Sidney Lowe agrees with me. From the N&O blog (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/latest-loss-frustrates-lowe):

"That wasn't the 3, one of four for Vasquez, that irked Lowe. Vasquez drained an uncontested 3 as the clock wound down. State's players began to head for the handshake line, but Vasquez was still playing.

Lowe wasn't so much concerned about Vasquez's questionable sportsmanship but his own team's effort.

'You play to the buzzer rings,' Lowe said. 'What bothers me more is that we weren't with him.'"

-c

Wheat/"/"/"
03-02-2009, 09:16 AM
The heckling was extreme, maybe he shouldn't have done, but respect the player and the effort and the 3 probably isn't shot.

With all due respect, for those who have never competed in a sport at it's most competitive level, it's hard to understand a shot like that, and easy to 'dis.

The competitive juices are a powerful thing. Being that competitive is what makes them good.

If it was me, it's likely I'm thinking "guard me or I'm shooting it to make a point to you *&^%$ fans" ...assuming the fans were that nasty.

Then I stroke it and give them the JJ "smirk".

:)

Wander
03-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Singler's swipe at the ball was awesome. So was Vasquez's shot. I love that attitude.

blueprofessor
03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
I am a University of Maryland graduate who refuses to root for the team because of the boorish behavior of the fans and GW's complete lack of concern. He could stop it, or at least reduce it, if he chose to - the fact that he makes no effort shows his character. I was rooting hard for NCSU. Despite that I have no problem fully admitting it was a tremendous game by Vasquez. But look at what is being talked about. He did that to himself - he is allowing his play to be overshadowed by his attitude. We all know he can make an unguarded shot - what exactly did he prove?

and I have yet to fathom Coach Gary Williams'.
GV does enjoy the limelight and is not circumspect about how he obtains that attention.
Perhaps as he gets older and more mature...
With all the yapping Gary does with his players (seated ,standing,or playing), there might be some mention of end-of-game conduct.
Look for closer guarding of GV at ends of games!:D:D
Does anyone know when the phenomenon of letting up at the end of games began ? I remember playing hard to the horn.

Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

dahntaysdawg
03-02-2009, 09:52 AM
And now the high quality feature doesn't work. I don't understand YouTube.



That "very little action" is exactly the physical posturing and gesture one would use when he desires the other person to flinch. There's no place for that at the college basketball level. If an opposing ACC player did that to us, we'd be calling for his head or, at the very least, we would mock him incessantly for reducing himself to that.

As I said back in the Clemson game thread, I hope it was dealt with internally, and I'm sort of glad for Duke's sake that the pop gets most of the attention for that game's ending.


Wow, you are really reaching for something here. The game wasn't over so Kyle was in defensive stance, are we supposed to just let them have their moment and be ok with it?

allenmurray
03-02-2009, 09:56 AM
I was always coached to play to the whistle. It's my firm belief that it's not my job to stop me; it's your job to stop me. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't have been more sporting to dribble out the clock, but I'm hesitant to call a guy a jerk for just playing ball. I have no proof of this, but I tend to believe that teams start the next game the way they finished the last.

Apparently Sidney Lowe agrees with me. From the N&O blog (http://blogs.newsobserver.com/accnow/latest-loss-frustrates-lowe):

"That wasn't the 3, one of four for Vasquez, that irked Lowe. Vasquez drained an uncontested 3 as the clock wound down. State's players began to head for the handshake line, but Vasquez was still playing.

Lowe wasn't so much concerned about Vasquez's questionable sportsmanship but his own team's effort.

'You play to the buzzer rings,' Lowe said. 'What bothers me more is that we weren't with him.'"

-c

If your team is ahead by 8, there are less than 3 seconds left, and the other players are not guarding you (in fact have started walking over to the handshake line) they you are not "playing" you are showing off. Understanding the difference between those two things is what sets some players apart from others.

The NCSU players had conceded the game - they could have gone out and played hard defense - maybe even committed a hard foul in order to keep G from getting off the shot. But they recognized that the game was over, that MD had won, and they left the court understanding that they had been beaten. He had just played a team very well, in a well played and "clean" game. He disrespected the 8 or 9 players to make a point to the crowd. he forgot who the game was really against.

allenmurray
03-02-2009, 09:57 AM
Look for closer guarding of GV at ends of games!:D:D


Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

Yep. the next time he does that somebody will foul him hard, very hard. Then he will talk about sportsmanship in end of game situations, and GW will complain.

moonpie23
03-02-2009, 09:59 AM
state had given up at the 2 min mark......they didn't care about grAvus taking that shot....why should anyone else?


i mean......state LET him take that shot......i think they were in the shower...

davekay1971
03-02-2009, 10:01 AM
Gosh, it sure seems that the fans in Carolina have subjective memories because I can distinctly remember a thunderous, unguarded throw-down jam to end a Maryland-Carollina game in Cole Field House by none other than Michael Jordan when that game was over, as well.

I guess MJ was a classless jerk as well.


As it turns out...he was. He just hid it better than Vasquez.

As for the general theme of this thread, agreed that it was a classless move by a kid with a tendency toward punk-ish behavior, endorsed by a coach who appears to endorse and encourage lack of class and lack of sportsmanship by his team and his team's fans.

weezie
03-02-2009, 10:23 AM
Plus, he couldn't bat a lick.

But back to grAvis: chest bumping your coach at the end of the tarhole game was extremely dorky and maddeningly insulting to the holes. I loved it, though..so terpy-dorky.

slower
03-02-2009, 10:23 AM
I must be getting old and sentimental for a time when teams won with class and fans expected it.

Was that also a time when the FANS had class? Because, for the most part, fans are FAR worse than any of the players. So, while I agree that the shot by Vasquez was a bad idea, sometimes I don't blame these guys for wanting to stick it to hecklers.

cruxer
03-02-2009, 10:29 AM
The NCSU players had conceded the game - they could have gone out and played hard defense - maybe even committed a hard foul in order to keep G from getting off the shot. But they recognized that the game was over, that MD had won, and they left the court understanding that they had been beaten. He had just played a team very well, in a well played and "clean" game. He disrespected the 8 or 9 players to make a point to the crowd. he forgot who the game was really against.

The fact that State conceded may be as telling as the fact that GV took the shot. The game's not over until it's actually over. Again, I agree that it would have more sporting to simply let the clock run out. But I don't have a huge problem with GV taking a shot either. If, in a similar situation, teams decide that guarding him until the whistle should be their strategy, well they should have been doing that anyway.

I might see this situation differently if, say, this were boxing, and continually pummeling an opponent who's clearly hurt could cause permanent damage, but it's not. This is basketball, and in college, the game lasts 40 minutes--not 39:55.

And, just so you know, I believe that in any situation. I'm a huge Duke fan, so I had no rooting interest in that game. However, I went to Gainesville last year to watch UM/UF play football. UF scored a late TD after the game was decided. I was rooting for UM, and actually argued with a UF fan who I went to the game with that I had no problem with that. It was the 'Canes job to stop the Gators. It's not the Gators job to stop the Gators.

-c

bjornolf
03-02-2009, 12:20 PM
Did anybody see the GT/UNC game this weekend? Carolina was up by 25 in the second half shooting 3s early in the shotclock and looking for runouts with their starters in the game with four minutes left in the game. I was at a party and only slightly watching, but suddenly I saw a Carolina player (I think it was Ellington) lying on the floor holding his head. Did anybody see this? What happened? Did a GT player take a frustration shot at him? That kind of situation always seems dangerous to me, and an argument for getting your starters out of there. No, the Gators shouldn't stop the Gators, but they could at least put in their backups (which if they did, then I don't have a problem with it). As Bowden once said "I got my fourth stringers in there. What do you want them to do, lay down?"

Kewlswim
03-02-2009, 12:33 PM
Hola,

It just seems that there are bigger issues to worry about than a last shot at a game that was already over. As for me, I don't think too much about what a Terrapin does, I worry a lot more about what my beloved Blue Devils do!

Andale Diablos Azules!

GO DUKE in ANY language sounds awesome.

juise
03-02-2009, 01:41 PM
Greivis could learn from these high school kids (http://sports.espn.go.com/highschool/rise/basketball/boys/news/story?id=3914375).

Kewlswim
03-02-2009, 03:03 PM
Hi,

I have never really watched basketball in any of the Latin American (or in Spain for that matter) leagues. Gervais is of course from Venezuela. Perhaps this is not considered bad form in those countries? We in America are told to play to the whistle no matter what, except in end of game situations like Gervais encountered. Maybe he just needs to be told that is bad form in America? Overall, he does not seem like a bad kid. I don't think I have seen him take any cheap shots. He wants the ball in the critical situations (what is wrong with that?). He makes the Terrapins go, if you are a Terp fan that must be a good thing. Only Terp I ever really liked was Len Bias. I guess Lefty was OK, but then again he is from Duke.

GO DUKE!

tendev
03-02-2009, 03:21 PM
Gosh, it sure seems that the fans in Carolina have subjective memories because I can distinctly remember a thunderous, unguarded throw-down jam to end a Maryland-Carollina game in Cole Field House by none other than Michael Jordan when that game was over, as well.

I guess MJ was a classless jerk as well.

I did not see that game or simply don't remember it. No reason I would have seen it but from my recollections of his college days, MJ does not come to mind as an example of good sportsmanship that I would want my kid to follow. I would add several Duke players (one from the early 90s who stepped on someone from Kentucky) to that list as well if you are interested in objectivity.

I did not say and would not say that based on any one play that MJ or Vasquez is a "classless jerk". I don't agree with that characterization. My comment was in response to another post to the effect that what Vasquez did was "no big deal". My guess is that acts of poor sportmanship started well before MJ, and that they will continue until they are just not accepted as standard behavior.

tendev
03-02-2009, 03:35 PM
Wow, you are really reaching for something here. The game wasn't over so Kyle was in defensive stance, are we supposed to just let them have their moment and be ok with it?

The Clemson players woofing was lousy sportmanship too. But if Singler lets that get to him, he needs to learn to be mentally tougher. Once the game is over, let it go. Next play as K likes to say. Let the other teams look like jackasses.

RelativeWays
03-02-2009, 05:59 PM
SIngler seems to be a bit of a prick. God bless him for it. So was Laettner. As much as he loved to win (and Laettner loooooooved to win) I think he hated to lose even more. Kyle seems to be the same way and he's my favorite current devil because of it.

InSpades
03-02-2009, 06:07 PM
Hi,

I have never really watched basketball in any of the Latin American (or in Spain for that matter) leagues. Gervais is of course from Venezuela. Perhaps this is not considered bad form in those countries? We in America are told to play to the whistle no matter what, except in end of game situations like Gervais encountered. Maybe he just needs to be told that is bad form in America? Overall, he does not seem like a bad kid. I don't think I have seen him take any cheap shots. He wants the ball in the critical situations (what is wrong with that?). He makes the Terrapins go, if you are a Terp fan that must be a good thing. Only Terp I ever really liked was Len Bias. I guess Lefty was OK, but then again he is from Duke.

GO DUKE!

I kind of like Vasquez but this explanation doesn't really make much sense. He's a junior. If he hasn't figured out by now that taking that shot is going to piss off some people then he's not paying attention. He knew what he was doing. I don't think it's a big deal or anything, and he's still probably the only Maryland player I sort of like. He has a very likable kind of cockiness and the way he handled his game in Cameron (afterwards) was pretty funny.

RoyalBlue08
03-02-2009, 06:21 PM
I think this shot by Vasquez is just a reflection of the fact that there seems to be no emphasis on sportsmanship in the Maryland program. It's evident in the way the team is coached and the way the fans behave. I think blaming Greivis is missing the point. It's not hard to teach sportsmanship. I have never seen a Duke team take a shot when the shot clock is off and the game is over....even when the Crazies are imploring a walk on to shoot, or they need the basket to get to 100 or whatever. If Gary cared to teach sportsmanship too, this wouldn't happen at Maryland either. And maybe if Gary would get on the microphone when his crowd is chanting obsenities, that would stop as well. (I know i have been in Cameron on several occasions when K thought the students crossed the line, and he called timeout specifically to tell them so.) Anyway, mabye I am getting off the point, but I tend to blame the coach over the player for things like this.

JG Nothing
03-02-2009, 09:36 PM
Wow, you are really reaching for something here. The game wasn't over so Kyle was in defensive stance, are we supposed to just let them have their moment and be ok with it?

Singler was never in a serious defensive stance. In both cases, popping the ball out of the player's arms and jumping towards the guy dribbling the ball up court, Singler used the element of surprise to try to upstage Clemson.

The Clemson players were simply celebrating a huge win with their fans in the waning seconds of the game. They were not taunting the Duke players at all. I've seen Duke players do similar things at the end of games and everyone else was always "okay with it."

Duke (and Singler) let Clemson "have their moment" for 39 minutes and 50 seconds. I'm not sure why Singler could not "be okay with it" for 10 more seconds.

Duke should just be happy Clemson did not shoot a three or try a dunk after the shot clock was turned off.:rolleyes:

captmojo
03-02-2009, 10:16 PM
Kyle's actions could easily be defined as playful frustration. Note how it wasn't a case of trying to chase down the ball to get off a shot. Note how there didn't seem to be an attempt to injure anyone, most of all himself, from the crush of those about to rush the court in celebration, who rarely get to see such a win over a team like Duke. In the end, Kyle's actions....big deal. :cool: Vasquez's...in your face deal. Big difference.

Kewlswim
03-02-2009, 11:17 PM
I kind of like Vasquez but this explanation doesn't really make much sense. He's a junior. If he hasn't figured out by now that taking that shot is going to piss off some people then he's not paying attention. He knew what he was doing. I don't think it's a big deal or anything, and he's still probably the only Maryland player I sort of like. He has a very likable kind of cockiness and the way he handled his game in Cameron (afterwards) was pretty funny.

Hi,

Maybe he is clueless and has not paid attention and does not get a chance to take last minute victory shots? After all he is a turtle and may have his head in his shell and not paying attention to the outside world.

GO DUKE!

jipops
03-03-2009, 09:33 AM
So would there be any youtube footage of this Greivas act? Ofcourse not, it would only be interesting if a Duke player committed this. For everyone else this is accepted behavior.

Heeler4life
03-03-2009, 02:00 PM
against Mich St ....w/three seconds to go and no one covering him in a 16 pt blow out jj reddick drove the whole court and made a lay up. just as classless and that idiot Vasquez.

moonpie23
03-03-2009, 02:08 PM
against Mich St ....w/three seconds to go and no one covering him in a 16 pt blow out jj reddick drove the whole court and made a lay up. just as classless and that idiot Vasquez.



link?

Maxwell1977
03-03-2009, 02:28 PM
against Mich St ....w/three seconds to go and no one covering him in a 16 pt blow out jj reddick drove the whole court and made a lay up. just as classless and that idiot Vasquez.

I can't seem to find such a game. Is it some other team?

bjornolf
03-03-2009, 07:08 PM
Singler was never in a serious defensive stance. In both cases, popping the ball out of the player's arms and jumping towards the guy dribbling the ball up court, Singler used the element of surprise to try to upstage Clemson.

The Clemson players were simply celebrating a huge win with their fans in the waning seconds of the game. They were not taunting the Duke players at all. I've seen Duke players do similar things at the end of games and everyone else was always "okay with it."


I have NEVER seen a duke player WITH THE BALL turn his back on the defense, nonchalantly tuck the ball under one hand, and start waving at the crowd with time on the clock. If he did, I would expect him to be sitting at the beginning of the next game. Jason Williams waved to the crowd ONCE that I can remember while holding the ball with time on the clock, but he did NOT take his eyes off the defender and he kept the ball FIRMLY clamped in his other elbow. Now, it's one thing for players that aren't holding the ball to do it. I've seen a lot of guys for duke and other schools do that, and I don't have a problem with it. But the guy with the ball has a RESPONSIBILITY to protect it UNTIL THE HORN SOUNDS. Sorry, this argument doesn't hold water with me.

Further, you say that Clemson wasn't taunting Duke. Absolutely the guy with the ball was. It is COMPLETELY disrespectful to dismiss your opponent and turn your back on him to play up to the crowd when you're the guy holding the ball with time still on the clock. Ask anybody who knows anything about body language. You're basically telling them that they don't matter. I played point guard in high school, and I promise you I never did that, and I never would.