MBB: Duke 72, Virginia Tech 65 Post-game Thread

[Troublemaker]

72-65... that score warms my heart.

[gwwilburn]

Jon got away with a walk in the only minute of the game I was able to see out west. That call is made very rarely, but the announcers pointed it out, so the anti-Duke campaign might have some more travel material in the next week.

[dukeENG2003]

Good tough win. Tough game from Singler. Glad to have Dave back, he made some key plays down the stretch.

I'm a little angry the ref's missed the blatant elbow to Singler's head that almost knocked him out.

[willowglen]

Anyone else think Greenberg is a coach that gets a tremendous amount out of the talent at Tech? I do.

Tech is also a school that is hard not to like. As mentioned in DBR's pre-game report, their response to the tragedy speaks a lot about the place.

This is tough win against a team that I think are the "good guys".

[House G]

We must have won because Jon traveled three times and the refs did not see it.;)

[loran16]

The announcers were terrible on all fronts today.

G struggled in the 2nd half. But they kept on saying, OH Jump shots are not his shots and its good that they force him to take them.....umm, I always recall that outside of dunks, G's standard shot is to drive a short bit, jump and seem to hang before making a shot. That IS his shot. He just was god awful in the 2nd half from the field.

The team needs to work on some endurance drills....they have good first halves and then defensively they fail miserably in the 2nd half, and today, we failed OFFENSIVELY as well.

VT is a good team. They should hang with us. But if we jump into a 16 point lead, we should be able to hold it for double digits the entire game.

(Also, the T on Gerald was sooo awful. He better have said something really out of line. Seriously.)

[doctorhook]

gww,

The announcers ( Jimmy was obsessed with VT today ) were quick to point out the walk, but not quick to point out the three hacks on Jon's arms. Doc

[OldSchool]

I hope Jimmy Dykes get hired for that assistant coach position at Virginia Tech.

He certainly aced the interview today!

[dukegirlinsc]

Jon got away with a walk in the only minute of the game I was able to see out west. That call is made very rarely, but the announcers pointed it out, so the anti-Duke campaign might have some more travel material in the next week.

I thought he was traveling myself, but I also could have sworn he may have been getting pushed a tiny bit.

Regardless, my blood pressure is up. These are the games that this team would lose two months ago. It's good to see them pull out wins in these situations.

[dukeENG2003]

Jon got away with a walk in the only minute of the game I was able to see out west. That call is made very rarely, but the announcers pointed it out, so the anti-Duke campaign might have some more travel material in the next week.

They gladly pointed out the walks that weren't called, but not the fouls that weren't called. . .

[OldPhiKap]

If I heard one more mention of the "hokey pokey" I thought I'd hurl.

Glad to see that we never fell behind IIRC, even though they tied it up.

GG

[Jarhead]

We must have won because Jon traveled three times and the refs did not see it.;)
Well there you go. He was fouled three times before the three travels took place. It balances out.

[roywhite]

G struggled in the 2nd half. But they kept on saying, OH Jump shots are not his shots and its good that they force him to take them.....umm, I always recall that outside of dunks, G's standard shot is to drive a short bit, jump and seem to hang before making a shot. That IS his shot. He just was god awful in the 2nd half from the field.

The team needs to work on some endurance drills....they have good first halves and then defensively they fail miserably in the 2nd half, and today, we failed OFFENSIVELY as well.

VT is a good team. They should hang with us. But if we jump into a 16 point lead, we should be able to hold it for double digits the entire game.



Yikes...are you kidding?

I'm delighted with this win.

Great second half by Singler; good defense by Elliot Williams; good effort against a tough VaTech team, and Vassallo was shooting lights-out for much of the second half.

Good job, guys.

[BobbyFan]

I'm a little angry the ref's missed the blatant elbow to Singler's head that almost knocked him out.

Agreed, not so much that the refs missed it but more because it was such a dirty play. The guy was not looking at the ball or basket, saw Kyle having a clear path to the basket, and blatantly threw his elbow at Kyle's neck.

[78Devil]

The game was not on in my region. So I watched the "play by play" online. Couldn't tell much, except shooting percentages looked mediocre, except for Scheyer. Could someone give a "big picture" overview of strengths and weaknesses?

[Virginian]

gww,

The announcers ( Jimmy was obsessed with VT today ) were quick to point out the walk, but not quick to point out the three hacks on Jon's arms. Doc

If the refs aren't going to call a foul in this situation, when VT is trying to slap the ball away or, failing that, get a foul called to stop the clock, they can't very well call travelling. Pretty standard no-call.

As for the announcers, there were plenty of no-calls on traveling throughout the game that they didn't see fit to make a point of. Oh well. We won.

[OldPhiKap]

The game was not on in my region. So I watched the "play by play" online. Couldn't tell much, except shooting percentages looked mediocre, except for Scheyer. Could someone give a "big picture" overview of strengths and weaknesses?

Grant -- er, I meant Gerald -- was on fire in the first half.

Vassallo was a one-man wrecking crew in the second half.

Duke held when it had to.

[CAT Blue Devil]

Lost in all the "Duke gets all the calls" excuses about the pivot foot at the end of the day is curious jump ball mauling of Singler on the rebound.

[DukeWarhead]

Nothing to be disappointed about in a tough road win in the ACC. Enjoy the journey. A win is a win is a win..... we'll take them however we get em.

[jdj4duke]

Jimmy Dykes is like the Steve Melnyk of basketball. Pompous, pretentious, inconsistent, and just repeatedly incorrect in every game. Did Jon walk? Yes. On the other side, the ridiculous T on Henderson received absolutely no comment whatsoever, even after the T turned into 5 VT points.

For a long time, I thought the "Duke get the calls" nonsense was mostly (not completely but mostly) just the purview of a bunch of flaming message boards. It now feels like almost every announcing team feels a duty to call out the missed calls on Duke, but virtually never on the opposing team. Dykes seems especially adept at filling that role.

Best thing for the blood pressure today is to steer clear of any VT boards, since those will certainly rival those from MD, which of course set new standards of hysteria this week.

[doctorhook]

78Devil,

We came out smoking with G unstoppable, then we lost our offensive flow in the first half. Second half, we let up a little, VT focused on/stopped G and Kyle stepped up on offense. After VT tied it, our defense was great, stopped VT and we gutted it out down the stretch. Good on ball defense all around, particularly Elliot. Good, tough win. Doc

[MChambers]

Lost in all the "Duke gets all the calls" excuses about the pivot foot at the end of the day is curious jump ball mauling of Singler on the rebound.

It was a poorly officiated game. I hope the league takes action against the Tech player for the elbow on Singler. That kind of stuff deserves a sanction.

[91devil]

Any win on the road is a cherished win. Terrific gut-check by the team in the last five minutes.

The Hokies play very hard all of the time, which is certainly admirable (because it is something that many teams in our conference do not do). Even if they had won this game, however, I still think they would have some work to do to get in the big Tournament (despite what Coach Dykes repeatedly said, I do not think they quite have a big-time resume). I think they need at least two more wins this year (regular season plus ACC Tournement).

Coach Greenberg has repeatedly played the 'we have to fight harder than anyone because some people (read: Duke, UNC) don't want us to be here' card. I think that toughness carries over to the team.

Despite the missed travel call on Jon near the end, which will certainly be rehashed ad-nauseum, I think the more telling reason for their loss was that their point guard, Delaney (who is quite good), had an absolutely miserable game in one that they needed him to have a good one.

Great win Duke!

[arnie]

Anyone else think Greenberg is a coach that gets a tremendous amount out of the talent at Tech? I do.

Tech is also a school that is hard not to like. As mentioned in DBR's pre-game report, their response to the tragedy speaks a lot about the place.

This is tough win against a team that I think are the "good guys".

Wow - I guess that's why we have our own opinions. I actually like the school less than any and although I might get "banned" for saying this, I always pull for the Heels against VPI. I think Greenberg is a thug and a whiner and am enjoying the fact that he's not going to get in again. I would never call their sports progams and players "good guys".

Anyway, GO DUKE!

[dukegirlinsc]

We must have won because Jon traveled three times and the refs did not see it.;)

Duhhhh, Duke wins every game thanks to the refs. ;)

[Eckster]

Agree about the announcers today. John may have travelled but also had a clear charge taken on the previous play that they called a block. Looked to me like Kyle's rebound tie up on an earlier play was tied up by a guy whose foot was on the baseline. Point is, some things are seen, some not. The questionable calls evened out in this game, I think. Nice win.

[jpfrizzle]

I thought he was traveling myself, but I also could have sworn he may have been getting pushed a tiny bit.

Regardless, my blood pressure is up. These are the games that this team would lose two months ago. It's good to see them pull out wins in these situations.

I believe Jon was being pushed a lil bit too during his pivotal turns.

These past two months have had my blood pressure up as well, very stressful times and more to come I'm afraid to admit.

[dukegirlinsc]

Anyone else think Greenberg is a coach that gets a tremendous amount out of the talent at Tech? I do.

Tech is also a school that is hard not to like. As mentioned in DBR's pre-game report, their response to the tragedy speaks a lot about the place.

This is tough win against a team that I think are the "good guys".

For me, personally, it's not so hard not to like them. They've always seemed to be scrappy and a little low on the class scale, in my opinion.

[should_be_working]

(Also, the T on Gerald was sooo awful. He better have said something really out of line. Seriously.)


After watching the replay a couple of times, G didn't appear to say anything, he gave him a good stare, but I don't think anything was said

Tough win, just glad to get out of there with a win.

[OldPhiKap]

Wow - I guess that's why we have our own opinions. I actually like the school less than any and although I might get "banned" for saying this, I always pull for the Heels against VPI. I think Greenberg is a thug and a whiner and am enjoying the fact that he's not going to get in again. I would never call their sports progams and players "good guys".

Anyway, GO DUKE!


Deron Washington was one of my least-liked (non-Heel) players in conference history. Up there with Tom Sheehey. Even ahead of Joe Wolf.

[91devil]

Agree about the announcers today. John may have travelled but also had a clear charge taken on the previous play that they called a block. Looked to me like Kyle's rebound tie up on an earlier play was tied up by a guy whose foot was on the baseline. Point is, some things are seen, some not. The questionable calls evened out in this game, I think. Nice win.

That's exactly right. The block call on Jon late in the game had 'make-up call' written all over it. Coach Greenberg at one point held up six fingers to show how many charging calls had (accurately) been made on his team.

[OldPhiKap]

Duhhhh, Duke wins every game thanks to the refs. ;)

"8>5"

[DukieInKansas]

Since I'm in Big 12 territory, I had to watch on ESPN 360. Don't know if it was our computer system or theirs, but the screen sure froze often. The game finished at least 10 minutes after y'all started posting about the victory.

Way to hang tough at the end. I'm glad we get all the calls so that we can win. :D Scheyer did walk, but is it Duke's fault that the refs miss a call?

I'm still shaking my head about the jump ball on Singler's tie up at the end. I thought it should have been a reach in foul, myself.

Enjoy the victory!

[cf-62]

It was a poorly officiated game. I hope the league takes action against the Tech player for the elbow on Singler. That kind of stuff deserves a sanction.

Actually, the precendent has been set in the Miami / OSU game, as well as the Miami / Duke game -- the refs are SUPPOSED to review the video if something obviously happened.

The fact they didn't shows they just weren't interested in elevating THEIR effort to match the teams', as was Gerald's T -- Vasallo almost took Gerald's head off -- with no call -- of COURSE he's going to react -- if refs won't get the game under control, it's up to the players to do it.

[sagegrouse]

Jon got away with a walk in the only minute of the game I was able to see out west. That call is made very rarely, but the announcers pointed it out, so the anti-Duke campaign might have some more travel material in the next week.

Yeah, I heard our idiot savant Jimmy Dykes on the replay. He conveniently ignored that Jon was getting bumped every few tenths of a second, which should have been fouls.

Interesting call by K: Duke had the arrow, so the play was for Scheyer to receive the pass, stay in position, and get fouled; or else, take it out of bounds on a held ball.

I think that is relying too heavily on fate; we'll see if we do that again.

sagegrouse
'I love to get in people's heads by having them think Duke gets all the calls'

[Duvall]

Wow - I guess that's why we have our own opinions. I actually like the school less than any and although I might get "banned" for saying this, I always pull for the Heels against VPI. I think Greenberg is a thug and a whiner and am enjoying the fact that he's not going to get in again. I would never call their sports progams and players "good guys".


Agreed, except for pulling for the Heels. And soon we'll see the other major reason to dislike VPI&SU, the way their fans descend like locusts on anything resembling criticism of the Hokies anywhere on the Internet.

P.S. Expansion was an expensive mistake.

[78Devil]

Based on what you saw of VT today, what kind of chance will they have against the Holes at home? Will their loss to us deflate them or inspire them?

[diablesseblu]

Actually, the precendent has been set in the Miami / OSU game, as well as the Miami / Duke game -- the refs are SUPPOSED to review the video if something obviously happened.

The fact they didn't shows they just weren't interested in elevating THEIR effort to match the teams', as was Gerald's T -- Vasallo almost took Gerald's head off -- with no call -- of COURSE he's going to react -- if refs won't get the game under control, it's up to the players to do it.


I'm so glad you mentioned the lack of a video review. Have been astonished at how few times I've seen it used this year.

The quality/consistency of the officiating has been abysmal in recent ACC games.

Maybe Johnny Swofford's too busy campaigning for Myles Brand's job to notice?

[Neals384]

It was a poorly officiated game. I hope the league takes action against the Tech player for the elbow on Singler. That kind of stuff deserves a sanction.

#1 Terrell Bell was the guy who caught Singler on the chin with his elbow. Looked intentional to me. I was amazed Kyle stayed in the game.

[cf-62]

sagegrouse
'I love to get in people's heads by having them think Duke gets all the calls'

You can't really have rational conversation with idiots that think we get everything, so I've started telling people we SHOULD be getting all the calls since I give $1,000 annually to the "pay off the refs" fund.

[KandG]

This was just like the BC game. Jump out to a huge lead in the first half and have our way with them (particularly Gerald). Give up some momentum at the end of the first and then really struggle on offense and defense in the second.

The difference this time is that we were able to gut it out. And it was a better team that came back on us -- we weren't giving up points to guys like Trapani, Roche and Reggie Jackson.

Best part of the game was Kyle finding his shot again. Gerald really struggled in the second half, as did Jon in stretches. We have three great scorers, I just wish we could find a way to have them be more efficient in using their offense to create opportunities for their teammates.

Still an excellent win on the road.

[rsvman]

Singler stepped up big time when Henderson went cold/was better defended.

Overall, a great game and a great road win against a tough, well coached team. We need to make more end-game free throws, though. This is a recurring problem that could hurt us down the road if not remedied.

Otherwise, wonderful win!

[CameronCrazy'11]

Any win on the road is a cherished win. Terrific gut-check by the team in the last five minutes.

The Hokies play very hard all of the time, which is certainly admirable (because it is something that many teams in our conference do not do). Even if they had won this game, however, I still think they would have some work to do to get in the big Tournament (despite what Coach Dykes repeatedly said, I do not think they quite have a big-time resume). I think they need at least two more wins this year (regular season plus ACC Tournement).

Coach Greenberg has repeatedly played the 'we have to fight harder than anyone because some people (read: Duke, UNC) don't want us to be here' card. I think that toughness carries over to the team.

Despite the missed travel call on Jon near the end, which will certainly be rehashed ad-nauseum, I think the more telling reason for their loss was that their point guard, Delaney (who is quite good), had an absolutely miserable game in one that they needed him to have a good one.

Great win Duke!


Huh? Tech epitomizes playing to the level of their competition. If they had put in anywhere near this level of effort against UGA or UVA they might not have to be fighting for their tournament life.

[cf-62]

Maybe Johnny Swofford's too busy campaigning for Myles Brand's job to notice?

Maybe we can get back to 10 teams (I don't care if we keep BC or The U, although I'd prefer SC (will never happen), Memphis (never happen), or Kentucky (never happen) as our 10th team.

[OldPhiKap]

Maybe we can get back to 10 teams (I don't care if we keep BC or The U, although I'd prefer SC (will never happen), Memphis (never happen), or Kentucky (never happen) as our 10th team.

You know how many Kentucky fans it takes to change a lightbulb?

20,000. One to change the bulb, and the rest to gripe about how good the old one was "back in the day."

[BlueHeaven]

I'll take a win where ever we get one. I love this team and was happy to see Nolan feeling better and the rest of the team giving him a little s--t for the ear plugs. The T was ridiculous and I am dying to know what if anything he said. I said the same thing about the announcers...they desperately wanted VT to pull this one off. It's annoying. If you can't be neutral, don't call the game. There are plenty out there to call, pick another one. I like VT as much as the next guy, when they aren't playing my team, but for goodness sakes put your tongues back in your mouth and quit falling all over everything they do. I did love that I could read Greenburg's lips when he was hot! Great win.

[geraldsneighbor]

After watching the replay a couple of times, G didn't appear to say anything, he gave him a good stare, but I don't think anything was said

Tough win, just glad to get out of there with a win.

G was penalized for his enthusiasm. That's all I got. He didn't say anything. His reaction on Duke vs. Maryland was a little more then that even and he didn't get a T then.

[gwwilburn]

We must have won because Jon traveled three times and the refs did not see it.;)

I'm not saying that's why we won. It's just what I noticed in the only part of the game I was able to see. VA Tech could have tied it with a 3, but the only reason they were that close was because of a horrible foul call on Paulus. I get the feeling the refereeing was pretty bad to neither side's favor.

[juise]

I thought the defense down the stretch (last 4ish minutes) was fantastic. I didn't like a few of the quick fouls, but the passing lane and help defense was the key to the win, imo.

I liked the pay we called out of the timeout that went to Kyle and he missed from about 8 feet. I'd like to see more of that in the offense. The number of 3's we shot while VT was rallying was horrific. The FT shooting overall was very solid, but the game would have been easily in hand for the last minute if we hadn't come away 1-for-2 a couple of times. Someone fussed at me for saying the same thing after the Maryland game when we were up 8-10, but those shots will prove huge in March.

Congrats to the team on becoming the second ACC team to reach the double digit win plateau!

[geraldsneighbor]

The win is that much more impressive when you realize we took their best shot from them today. To come out on top the way we did makes it all the sweeter. I knew this game would be a dog fight and I'm not surprised at all they made a run. Vassallo shot the ball out of his mind. Our defense made a few huge stops at the end. Great win, get some rest and try to beat Florida St. It's March now baby.

[gwwilburn]

I believe Jon was being pushed a lil bit too during his pivotal turns.
True. Sorry, I'll get over this now.

[BD80]

Great win!

EMail is becoming a critical part of our team, VT went on their big run when he went to the sideline.

It was great to see Singler get his mojo back on offense. He had looked a little out of sync.

Jon clearly traveled. He traveled even before he started shifting his pivot foot. I didn't think it was as egregious as Dykes did (3 or 4 travels). The VT players were holding their position and really didn't foul.

G did NOT say anything to get the T. He swung his arms around and stared at the VT player, but his lips never moved, never even parted. I think the ref overreacted to the intensity G displayed.

VT is a good school and has good people, alums and students. Seth is one of those guys you like when he is on your side but hate when he is against you. You have to feel bad for how many close games they manage to lose. It doesn't look like it is the fault of his coaching, but a some point you just have to wonder.

[camion]

Great win!
Jon clearly traveled. He traveled even before he started shifting his pivot foot. I didn't think it was as egregious as Dykes did (3 or 4 travels). The VT players were holding their position and really didn't foul.


You could call the first travel on the majority of passes received in a game. It's never called. Also, after he established his pivot foot Jon called Hansbroughzees which gives him six more steps. ;)

[BD80]

You could call the first travel on the majority of passes received in a game. It's never called. Also, after he established his pivot foot Jon called Hansbroughzees which gives him six more steps. ;)

Oh come on.

Even with his ugliest "O" face on, Jon is not nearly ugly enough to call a Hansbroughzee.

[jimsumner]

Two ACC wins on the road against dangerous teams desperate for one more signature win for their NCAA resume.

We can quibble about this and that but that's pretty solid in my book. Is there anybody on this board who wouldn't have taken this six days ago?

[blueprofessor]

Yeah, I heard our idiot savant Jimmy Dykes on the replay. He conveniently ignored that Jon was getting bumped every few tenths of a second, which should have been fouls.

Interesting call by K: Duke had the arrow, so the play was for Scheyer to receive the pass, stay in position, and get fouled; or else, take it out of bounds on a held ball.

I think that is relying too heavily on fate; we'll see if we do that again.

sagegrouse
'I love to get in people's heads by having them think Duke gets all the calls'

Tom Brennan,former Vermont coach, commented that there were calls for Duke that could have gone for VT while discussing the game with the unbiased Dougie Gottlieb on ESPN.
Dykes did comment that Duke plays harder than any college bball team. I took it as a compliment, but it seems that every 4th Duke game brings a comment by some analyst on tv that there was a questionable call at game's end favoring you know who.

The highlights showed Jon stealing the ball after a missed shot, hitting a 3, and then getting knocked down and rolled on by a Hokie. Foul called?

Best regards--Blueprofessor:):D

[dukegirlinsc]

During ESPN's highlights of Duke/VT (during whatever game is currently at half-time)...:

"...The next thing you know, they [VT] don't get a couple calls, business as usual..." Yep, that's ALL that happened in the last minute of the game. A few missed calls! HA.

And so it begins. Puh-lease! Of course they didn't show highlights of the "couple calls" that VT "didn't get".

Love it. :D

[miramar]

I agree that somebody should put a finger in the Dkyes, but since he said that Henderson would be much better off returning next year, I will let him off for today. He would be 100% better if he spoke 50% less.

Tough game overall. Duke was outrebounded 39-28 and was outscored on second-chance points 16-4, but we had a 15-4 advantage on points off turnovers, so that was a wash.

Duke only had 5 bench points, but 3 were by Paulus late, and those were actually pretty big. But that also means that Duke only had 2 bench points for the first 38 minutes or so. Of course, McClure (as usual) was better than his stats. Williams did not have a double figure game for the first time in the four February starts, but he still chipped in with 7 points, including a nice three.

[bgibbs1001]

Wow - I guess that's why we have our own opinions. I actually like the school less than any and although I might get "banned" for saying this, I always pull for the Heels against VPI. I think Greenberg is a thug and a whiner and am enjoying the fact that he's not going to get in again. I would never call their sports progams and players "good guys".

Anyway, GO DUKE!

Pulling for the Holes against any team is blasphemy.

[dukegirlinsc]

Pulling for the Holes against any team is blasphemy.

Agreed. I just can't do it, and I can't find any situation in which it's appropriate. UNC vs all that is evil?...I hope evil prevails.

[COYS]

I agree that somebody should put a finger in the Dkyes, but since he said that Henderson would be much better off returning next year, I will let him off for today. He would be 100% better if he spoke 50% less.

Tough game overall. Duke was outrebounded 39-28 and was outscored on second-chance points 16-4, but we had a 15-4 advantage on points off turnovers, so that was a wash.

Duke only had 5 bench points, but 3 were by Paulus late, and those were actually pretty big. But that also means that Duke only had 2 bench points for the first 38 minutes or so. Of course, McClure (as usual) was better than his stats. Williams did not have a double figure game for the first time in the four February starts, but he still chipped in with 7 points, including a nice three.

The bench points can't be much of a concern now that Nolan is out. Granted, one more Paulus three would have been nice, but Zoubek, Paulus, and McClure generally aren't going to ring up too many on the scoreboard. I thought Paulus played solidly for the time he was in. he didn't force any shots and took open ones when he did take them, even if he missed his threes tonight.

[flyingdutchdevil]

After a couple of games in which Singler wasn't himself, he came in and saved the game. When VT had that amazing rally, Singler pulled a Henderson and put Duke on his back. It was great. I was scared that Singler and burned out like last year, but he probably had a few games where he wasn't himself. He played great of late.

Regarding the Scheyer call, it was clearly a travel. Here is a youtube video of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R3vtLevo44o
Yes - VT did foul him. But I believe that Scheyer travelled before they began fouling him. Regardless, somebody on every team travels every game which isn't called.

[roywhite]

http://www.goduke.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=4200&ATCLID=3681385

Some key stats:
Delaney scored just 7 points on 2-12 shooting; good job Elliot
Duke had 9 turnovers compared to 19 by VaTech; another very steady job by Jon handling the ball.

[dukeman28428]

:)There is a "toughness" in this Duke team that I have not seen in recent years. It seems they refuse to fold. Coach K is doing a great job in getting the most out of his players

[Relics]

I guess it all comes down to the team who takes the most 22% jumpers...

[blueprofessor]

Two ACC wins on the road against dangerous teams desperate for one more signature win for their NCAA resume.

We can quibble about this and that but that's pretty solid in my book. Is there anybody on this board who wouldn't have taken this six days ago?

I saw the game and was very impressed with FSU's defense the first half.They shut Clemson down.C could not get the ball to Booker the first half.
Douglas was 4 for 15 from the floor.He is a scorer but takes a lot of shots.

Yes, I am very happy with the last 3 games.I am a little concerned over the upcoming game, as Alabi and Kitchen have been playing well lately.

Bilas picked VT to beat Duke today, joining his pal Hubert Davis, while the bball brain ,Coach Knight, picked Duke to win. Knight does not seem to need approval by sucking up to the anti-Duke cabal.:):)

Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

[dukeman28428]

:mad:The announcers kept referring to this over and over about Gerald being forced inside in the second half and I do not think they did a very good job of callling the game but then they seemed slanted to VT at least to me.

[flyingdutchdevil]

Bilas picked VT to beat Duke today, joining his pal Hubert Davis, while the bball brain ,Coach Knight, picked Duke to win. Knight does not seem to need approval by sucking up to the anti-Duke cabal.:):)

Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

IMO, Bilas tries so hard to be unbais that he actually ends up subconciously picking the other teams over and over again. When he commentates, he always gives the other team so much more credit than us. Sigh.....

[Virginian]

With a little quiet reflection, it seems to me we did a very nice job in this game. If Vassallo had not hit like 7 or 8 shots in a row from all over the court and pretty well guarded, we would have cruised through to about a 15 point win. That guy is really good, so no shame in him lighting it up for about 4 minutes. But if you look at the overall stats and how well we played defense on Delaney and Allen and Vassallo for most of the game, we played a pretty good game against a good team on their court in (for them) a must-win situation.

We held them to 65 points, 41% shooting overall and 25% three-point shooting. This is good stuff.

One minor point of concern was our three-point shooting in the second half. At the start of that half, it was clear the VT defense was doubling up on Henderson and sagging into the paint to force Duke to shoot 3s. We didn't respond very well to that. But we hung in, we made stops we needed to, we got rebounds we needed, we got big buckets when we needed, we got enough free throws when we needed them and we didn't fold.

I'm happy.

[1Devil]

As mentioned in DBR's pre-game report, their response to the tragedy speaks a lot about the place.

This thought continues to be expressed without any support. So how did VaTech's handling of the tragedy set them apart from how an N.C. State or a Rutgers, for example, would have handled similar circumstances? I ask the question with some cynicism, of course, but if there has been a truly remarkable response of which I am ignorant, I'd like to know about it.

[77devil]

72-65... that score warms my heart.

Jay Bilas predicted the 7 point spread correctly but he picked the wrong team to win.

How many times have we seen this team pull out to a double digit lead only to give it back? They lose their defensive intensity and there are to many people standing around on offense. It's difficult to maintain the intensity for an entire game, but it would be confidence building for the team to put a few of these games away. Especially tough to do on the road and the guys bore down at the end and pulled it out. Nice to see Kyle take charge in the second half after VT defense on Gerald cooled him off. Now it's on to the friendly environs of CIS.

And what is with the schedule of 4 games in 10 days. For the ACC to have scheduled the game on Tuesday is absolutely unnecessary.

[Indoor66]

I agree that somebody should put a finger in the Dkyes, but since he said that Henderson would be much better off returning next year, I will let him off for today. He would be 100% better if he spoke 50% less.

Tough game overall. Duke was outrebounded 39-28 and was outscored on second-chance points 16-4, but we had a 15-4 advantage on points off turnovers, so that was a wash.

Duke only had 5 bench points, but 3 were by Paulus late, and those were actually pretty big. But that also means that Duke only had 2 bench points for the first 38 minutes or so. Of course, McClure (as usual) was better than his stats. Williams did not have a double figure game for the first time in the four February starts, but he still chipped in with 7 points, including a nice three.

I a curious as to the significance of all those ^ stats? We won the game. The total at the end is the meaningful stat. The others are, IMHO, the concern of VT.

[CAT Blue Devil]

I guess it all comes down to the team who takes the most 22% jumpers...

Or better yet, the team that commits more of the 22% turnovers.

Or is it 22% less tough?

[1Devil]

How many times have we seen this team pull out to a double digit lead only to give it back?

They didn't give it all back. Unless it's the giving back of the "double digit" aspect of the lead that you're referring to. This was not surprising. VaTech is a pretty good team playing at home. Let's see what they do to unc-ch.

[camion]

And what is with the schedule of 4 games in 10 days. For the ACC to have scheduled the game on Tuesday is absolutely unnecessary.

Starting with St. Johns on 02/19 we play a game every three days ending with the FSU game on 03/03. That's five games in 13 days.

We do get some rest before the UNC game though.

[77devil]

They didn't give it all back. Unless it's the giving back of the "double digit" aspect of the lead that you're referring to. This was not surprising. VaTech is a pretty good team playing at home. Let's see what they do to unc-ch.

The double digit lead was given "all" back when VT tied the game but I was using the term indicatively.

[DukieInKansas]

Starting with St. Johns on 02/19 we play a game every three days ending with the FSU game on 03/03. That's five games in 13 days.

We do get some rest before the UNC game though.

I think the rest before the unc game is a very good thing. I hope unc doesn't get any rest.

[Acymetric]

I can't agree with anyone who says its easy to pull for Virginia Tech. I pulled for them for one year, and that was the year where, if if I recall correctly, they had a player get cancer, and another's grandmother (who raised him) died of cancer. There may have been one more tragedy that hit that team. And of course that was the year of Dockery's half court shot, which began their collapse. I legitimately felt bad for that team and pulled for them.

But outside of that one season, I've found their players to be tolerable at best and their coach to be whiny and insecure.


Anyways. Aside from G getting a tech for breathing and a few other "interesting" plays, I was pretty happy with this game. I know people hate seeing us blow big leads, but sometimes that happenes, and the important thing was that we hung on and won in the end. This game was a good test before our last home game of this year, can't wait 'til Wednesday!

[BlueintheFace]

I think a very important note on G's second half struggles is this:

When G is on the right wing, he likes to (1) take it baseline, (2) use the screen and drive the lane through contact, (3) use the screen and rise for the pull-up jumper

When G is on the left wing, he likes to (1) take it baseline, (2) use the screen and rise for the pull-up jumper

Notice, G DOES NOT like to take the ball all the way to the hoop when given that driving lane going to his left.

In the second half, The defenders were denying the baseline no matter what and challenging the jumper... practically daring him to drive the lane. The problem is, more often than not, he got the ball on the left wing in the second half. I think an adjustment that we needed to make, but didn't, was to get him the ball on that right side as often as possible.

[1Devil]

The double digit lead was given "all" back when VT tied the game but I was using the term indicatively.

Oops, you're right. I was remembering it only getting down to 2.

[missfinch]

This thought continues to be expressed without any support. So how did VaTech's handling of the tragedy set them apart from how an N.C. State or a Rutgers, for example, would have handled similar circumstances? I ask the question with some cynicism, of course, but if there has been a truly remarkable response of which I am ignorant, I'd like to know about it.

What support do you need? Rudy Giuliani said so.

[Saratoga2]

For a large part of the second half, it appeared that we had Thomas sitting and Singler as the only big we had on the floor. McClure, while a smart defensive player, and a good rebounder for his size is not able to contest many redbounds against 6'9" players. When Singler takes a shot from outside, we are totally outsized for rebounds. I think that we will continue have trouble holding leades as opponents realize they can take the ball inside on us and also dominate us in the rebound stat.

With that said, I don't know if Thomas got on coach K's bench list and also if Plumlee and Zoubek are also there, but one with think that we will need to use some of our size going forward.

Henderson had a great first half but seemed to tire. Of course he was guarded more carefully in the second half, but it seemed to be more than that. He started to force the ball and turn it over. Maybe he was beginning to drag. As others have said. The others have to recognize when a player has become ineffective and move to a different option. We stayed with the idea of pushing Henderson even after it appeared that he was becoming ineffective offensively.Good thing Singler stepped up in the second half and carried the team.

I think Scheyer turned the ball over twice. Once on an inbound pass where he expected a cutter who didn't cut. The second was something he could be faulted on. That makes only 4 turnovers in recent games and a great improvement for us in ball security.

Next up Florida State. I hope that Nolan is ready and that we also give the bigs more time.

[CameronBornAndBred]

We "Throttled" them the first time in Cameron, but tonight I would go more with "Escaped". As everyone has noted it, this game was a hard fought victory and a good one to walk away from with a win. But letting a game that in the first half we had them doubled up get back to even in the closing minutes is scary. The one sign they showed on TV,
Another
Blue Devil
Collapse
started to seem prescient. I thought KS had one of his better games of late, and Gerald just seems to be on a quest for greater things for this team. I'll chalk it up as another gutsy road win in the ACC, but I'll leave "throttling" for a win that deserves that title.

[Newton_14]

Another solid win. That is 4 in a row with 3 of the 4 on the road and 2 of the road games in very hostile environments, taking a desperate team's best shot. And both desperate teams were also seeking to avenge a previous beatdown in Cameron. That should end all of the 'Feb collapse talk", at least for awhile.

Impressive. And yet another solid game from Eliot. He had the added pressure of knowing that Nolan could not come in for him if he slipped, drew an assignment against yet another great guard older than him, and flat out shut Delaney down! That was huge in my opinion. If Nolan can come back strong in a few days, this team can go to yet another level.

I thought the offense in the first 15 minutes was really good, as was the defense. I also think the T had a negative impact on Gerald and hurt his play.

I am with Mr. Sumner in that this was a great win to get. This 3 game ACC win streak has gone a long way to keeping us out of a Thursday game in the ACC Tourney. Plus it keeps hope alive for the Reg Season title. 2 more wins and we gain at least a share of the title.

The announcers were bad, the refs were worse, but in the end, another big win for the good guys!

[pfrduke]

How many times have we seen this team pull out to a double digit lead only to give it back? They lose their defensive intensity and there are to many people standing around on offense. It's difficult to maintain the intensity for an entire game, but it would be confidence building for the team to put a few of these games away.

Two comments. First, this happens all the time, and not just to Duke. Basketball is a game of runs, and teams get, and then yield, double digit leads with frequency. The fact that we get double digit leads that ultimately get chipped away speaks at least as much to our ability to get those leads in the first place, which is a great thing. If the other team is going to make a run, I'd much rather they do it when we have a double digit lead than when we're tied or trailing.

Second, we did put this game away. Just like the Wake game (another double digit lead "given back"). Just like FSU earlier this year. Etc.

And actually, a third comment. We held a lead of at least 7 points (so, three possessions) for all but 23 seconds from the 14:23 point of the first half to the 9:12 point of the second half. Both teams made runs in that span, but for essentially 25 minutes, Duke held at least a three-possession lead on the road. That's really good work at sustaining a lead. From 9:12 to 5:59, Tech went on a 9-2 run. Then we finished 14-7. As road performances against good quality teams go, I'm pretty happy with this one.

[dukelifer]

Excellent win. The Jon Scheyer experiment at PG seems to be working. He is very strong with the ball and having the ball in his hands more has helped his O. Elliot played some impressive D today- really locking down on Delaney who has been a tough matchup. His three after the Coach K tongue lashing was also impressive and gutsy. Va Tech played tough today- mostly Vassallo - who really was hitting some bombs from deep- but the D was there today in critical moments. Winning a close game by making smart basketball plays at the end shows how much this team has matured as a unit. There was a lot of game pressure on Duke when the Hokies made their run- but Duke held them off and hit just enough shots and free throws to get out with a win. Fla State is another tough game but if Duke can pull it out- then they are looking very good moving into tourney time- regardless of what happens in Chapel Hill.

[CameronBornAndBred]

The announcers were bad, the refs were worse, but in the end, another big win for the good guys!
I could deal with the refs far easier than I could the announcers. I honestly thought the refs were very kind to Duke. The announcers however were practically cheering for a VT win. Very biased and unprofessional on their part.

[WeepingThomasHill]

Not only was he basically a Hokie Homer, but his inane commentary about guarding the high or low shoulder, repeated nearly 700 times, was awful. Worst. Announcer. Ever. He goes into the Duke-Hating Hall of Fame with Packer.

Great win by the team - a gutty performance against Seth's goon squad. Every trip across half court was a mugging - lost in the "Scheyer walked" hysteria was the non-call for some Hokie throwing a vicious elbow at Singler, trying to end his career. I look forward to VT playing in the NIT again - an appropriate place for their junior varsity coach.

[3rd Dukie]

I may get flamed for saying this, but I don't think Jimmy Dykes was biased. I also think Brad Nessler is pretty good.
I think Dykes REALLY loves to see good/great basketball, and, yes, he was very repetitive, but he was simply - and objectively - making observations about what he perceived as a curable shortcoming on VT's part. He is always quite complimentary of Duke's and Coach K's toughness and abilities. I have never heard him disparage Duke one bit. Of course, one will hear what they expect to hear in many instances.

Aside from the repetitiveness, I actually enjoy the pair. They are far from the worst.

Asbestos flame-retardant suit is now in place.

[Stray Gator]

Anyone else think Greenberg is a coach that gets a tremendous amount out of the talent at Tech? I do.

Tech is also a school that is hard not to like. As mentioned in DBR's pre-game report, their response to the tragedy speaks a lot about the place.

This is tough win against a team that I think are the "good guys".

I don't dislike the school. But I believe both their football and basketball teams play with a degree of "physicality" that often exceeds the bounds of good sportsmanship. And in my book, Seth Greenberg is the ACC coach I least respect, not only because I am convinced he encourages his players to "rough up" Duke's players (watch the game tape and pay attention to Thompson today), but because no one, including Gary Williams, has been more persistently whiney both during and after games in trying to exploit the "Duke gets all the calls" excuse. In the post-game press conference today, here was Greenberg's predictable explanation of another close loss to Duke:

"We did a great job with the press, get a good trap, and unfortunately could have had a chance to win the game, but the refs didn't see the same walk I saw," Greenberg said.


Sure, Jon should have been called for traveling. But one could just as easily say that there were a number of no-calls that favored the Hokies--like the elbow to Singler and the hacks on Singler in what was called a held ball, which gave possession back to VT. In typical fashion, Greenberg conveniently neglects that if not for those no-calls that went his way, getting a turnover on the Scheyer walk would have been academic, because VT wouldn't have been within 3 points then.

But I suppose blaming the officials for one missed call helps to divert attention from his failure as a coach to teach his players that "a great job with the press" means not letting the opponent's point guard get behind them for an easy breakaway lay-up. Maybe the fact that VT loses so many close games isn't just happenstance or bad luck; maybe their misfortune has something to do with the fact that their coach is way too preoccupied with blaming the refs.

[sagegrouse]

Not only was he basically a Hokie Homer, but his inane commentary about guarding the high or low shoulder, repeated nearly 700 times, was awful. Worst. Announcer. Ever. He goes into the Duke-Hating Hall of Fame with Packer.

Great win by the team - a gutty performance against Seth's goon squad. Every trip across half court was a mugging - lost in the "Scheyer walked" hysteria was the non-call for some Hokie throwing a vicious elbow at Singler, trying to end his career. I look forward to VT playing in the NIT again - an appropriate place for their junior varsity coach.

What did he say:? "If they do this [adjust their defensive position to deny the baseline]. they will be in good shape in this game." He said this with an approving tone of voice, as though Duke was helpless before his coaching legerdemain, and he truly wanted his boys at VPI to win and make the NCAAT. Really?

Of course, it helped that old A.D. was channeling Oscar Robertson there for about ten minutes. Was that what he really meant? What a loser! No wonder no one will give him a job as an assistant coach at a major program.

sagegrouse

[DukeVu]

Extremely gutsy win and and well deserved. Having deep concerns about only getting 4 points from a combined 48 minutes from Mcclure, Thomas and Zoubek. This explains why teams can use help in doubling on Henderson and Singlar. These two have to play extra hard because teams at time do not even attempt to guard Thomas and Mcclure. This does not bode well for post season play. Cannot help but believe that our neglect of Plumlee all season will come back to haunt us. I hope to be proven wrong.

[Virginian]

I don't dislike the school. But I believe both their football and basketball teams play with a degree of "physicality" that often exceeds the bounds of good sportsmanship. And in my book, Seth Greenberg is the ACC coach I least respect, not only because I am convinced he encourages his players to "rough up" Duke's players (watch the game tape and pay attention to Thompson today), but because no one, including Gary Williams, has been more persistently whiney both during and after games in trying to exploit the "Duke gets all the calls" excuse. In the post-game press conference today, here was Greenberg's predictable explanation of another close loss to Duke:

"We did a great job with the press, get a good trap, and unfortunately could have had a chance to win the game, but the refs didn't see the same walk I saw," Greenberg said.


Sure, Jon should have been called for traveling. But one could just as easily say that there were a number of no-calls that favored the Hokies--like the elbow to Singler and the hacks on Singler in what was called a held ball, which gave possession back to VT. In typical fashion, Greenberg conveniently neglects that if not for those no-calls that went his way, getting a turnover on the Scheyer walk would have been academic, because VT wouldn't have been within 3 points then.

But I suppose blaming the officials for one missed call helps to divert attention from his failure as a coach to teach his players that "a great job with the press" means not letting the opponent's point guard get behind them for an easy breakaway lay-up. Maybe the fact that VT loses so many close games isn't just happenstance or bad luck; maybe their misfortune has something to do with the fact that their coach is way too preoccupied with blaming the refs.

An honest assessment from Seth would have been "we did a pretty good job with the press and gave ourselves a chance at the end, but then we totally blew it by letting Paulus get that easy layup."

Instead, he blames the ref for not handing them the game.

An honest assessment would have been "we can't put ourselves in the position of being behind with 2 minutes and 1 minute to play and needing a fortunate call from the refs to rescue us. We just didn't do the job today."

Not his style evidently.

[FireOgilvie]

I may get flamed for saying this, but I don't think Jimmy Dykes was biased. I also think Brad Nessler is pretty good.
I think Dykes REALLY loves to see good/great basketball, and, yes, he was very repetitive, but he was simply - and objectively - making observations about what he perceived as a curable shortcoming on VT's part. He is always quite complimentary of Duke's and Coach K's toughness and abilities. I have never heard him disparage Duke one bit. Of course, one will hear what they expect to hear in many instances.

Aside from the repetitiveness, I actually enjoy the pair. They are far from the worst.

Asbestos flame-retardant suit is now in place.

I totally agree with you. Do people expect the announcers to just ignore the totally blatant travel? It was a pretty huge no-call. I rarely/almost never get the impression that announcers are anti-Duke. Len Elmore in the first MD game jumps out at me, but that's about it. People complain about the announcers after every single game. I've noticed that announcers rarely know anything about the players on the team Duke is playing (individual stories/backgrounds), and instead spend a lot of time talking about Duke's guys... no one brings this up. I feel like there is a tendency for announcers (no matter what sport) to get more excited about a possible upset... it's human nature. Ninety percent of the people watching any given game are rooting for an upset. Duke is almost always favored... it just goes with the territory.

[SMO]

Good tough win. Tough game from Singler. Glad to have Dave back, he made some key plays down the stretch.

I'm a little angry the ref's missed the blatant elbow to Singler's head that almost knocked him out.

They didn't play the replay of that one, did they? And Dykes and Nessler didn't have a huge issue with it? That's shocking. Shocking I say!

[SMO]

After watching the replay a couple of times, G didn't appear to say anything, he gave him a good stare, but I don't think anything was said

Tough win, just glad to get out of there with a win.

And shockingly no one pointed out that Vassallo was not T'ed up for staring down Scheyer after a dunk. Dykes missed that one, eh?

[roywhite]

To Seth, Jimmy Dykes, the Hokie fans who were hoping to rush the floor, A.D. Vassallo or whomever---

SCOREBOARD

Gripe about the calls, or the bounce of the ball, or whatever...it was another gutsy road win for the Blue Devils. :)

[diablesseblu]

I missed seeing the elbow to Singler's head. But ESPN was kind enough to replay the travel on "Gameday" and have Coach Knight comment on the blown call.

Sheesh. They just look for things to further the meme that "Duke gets all the calls".

And it's getting so there is more violence in NCAA bball than in the NBA.

[SMO]

I guess it all comes down to the team who takes the most 22% jumpers...

LOL! Where did Dykes come up with that? And he kept saying it over and over. He sounded like a blabbering idiot today!

[SMO]

But I suppose blaming the officials for one missed call helps to divert attention from his failure as a coach to teach his players that "a great job with the press" means not letting the opponent's point guard get behind them for an easy breakaway lay-up. Maybe the fact that VT loses so many close games isn't just happenstance or bad luck; maybe their misfortune has something to do with the fact that their coach is way too preoccupied with blaming the refs.

Oh snap! Seth Greenberg just got served.

[kaufmjo]

LOL! Where did Dykes come up with that? And he kept saying it over and over. He sounded like a blabbering idiot today!

I think the 22% shot is his trademark phrase which is a relatively sad statement for his prospects as an announcer. Also on that point he tried to explain it saying it was 1 in 5 chance shot which still doesnt add up. Oh well.

Even with his relative annoyances, he is not even close to the level of stupidity of Mike Patrick. Perhaps its because Patrick calls so many games, or his Mr. Rogers-esque phrasing, but I cant stand listening to games he calls.

[SMO]

I totally agree with you. Do people expect the announcers to just ignore the totally blatant travel? .

They ignored a blatant elbow to Singler and a blatant foul on Vassallo during Gerald's dunk that resulted in a technical. No, they shouldn't ignore a blatant travel and they also shouldn't conveniently ignore other transgressions by the home team.

[_Gary]

I'm with Stray 100% on those comments about Greenberg. I actually dislike him even more than Williams, and that's no small feat for a coach to make me dislike him enough to say that. But all the points Stray made I'll echo. I dislike Seth and his program because:

1) He definitely encourages physical play that goes over the line. No doubt about that. I'll stop short of saying he coaches his guys to play dirty, but it wouldn't take much more evidence for me to form that opinion. In relation to this, I'm dying to know the sequence of events that had Seth jumping up and down cheering his guys on. I know it was either the Singler knockout or the ensuing offensive possession of his team. I'd love to know if he really was cheering his guys on in correlation with the Singler knockdown - which was a very deliberate elbow to the jaw. Not even close to accidental contact.

2) Seth absolutely takes every opportunity to whine about the officiating and help perpetuate the "Duke gets all the calls myth". He's as active as Gary Williams on that front, if not moreso.

I do believe Scheyer traveled and I can't say it was because he was being fouled. I think the refs just missed that one. But they also missed the blatant Singler elbow, they shouldn't have t'd Gerald up, they wrongly called a tie-up that should have been a foul, and they frankly called at least 2 phantom fouls in a row on Duke that kept the Hokies shooting free throws in the last minute of the game, which of course kept them close. A few of those were really bogus. I remember one on Greg that I thought was really ticky tack in that last minute that stopped the clock and got them two more free points. So Seth's rant about the travel is nothing more than a joke when compared with all the other missed calls that put the Hokies in a position to even be close near the end.

Also, the announcers picking the travel to concentrate on is nothing more than the same old continued bias we've seen, especially from ESPN (and ABC in this instance) that we've seen for a good 5 years now. Someone kindly tell me the last time you saw a Duke game where the announcers spent any time on a late game call that went against Duke. It doesn't happen, plain and simple. And it's not just accidental. I wish we could get Knight to do all our games from now on. I think he's about the only guy left that will give us a fair shake. I have no desire to hear any other commentator from ESPN call any of our games. Maybe I'm missing someone, but right now I'm pretty tired of all of them and their subtle/not subtle "Duke got away with one there" crap.

Gary

[Mountain Devil]

Maybe the fact that VT loses so many close games isn't just happenstance or bad luck; maybe their misfortune has something to do with the fact that their coach is way too preoccupied with blaming the refs.

Exactly. I rewound the last 2 minutes of the games to see the non-travel, plus the 2 fouls that Seth whined about (he's right on the offensive foul on Delaney--he hit McClure right between the numbers, no clipping or facemask--perfect blocking form). More than a minute before the play he now says cost them the game, you can see Seth repeated say "That call cost us the game," referring to the Delaney foul.

Rather than telling his players they were going to pull out a victory, he's so concerned about making sure everyone knows that the coming loss is not his fault, he gives up on his players while the game is still in question.

[kaufmjo]

I'm with Stray 100% on those comments about Greenberg. I actually dislike him even more than Williams, and that's no small feat for a coach to make me dislike him enough to say that. But all the points Stray made I'll echo. I dislike Seth and his program because:

1) He definitely encourages physical play that goes over the line. No doubt about that. I'll stop short of saying he coaches his guys to play dirty, but it wouldn't take much more evidence for me to form that opinion. In relation to this, I'm dying to know the sequence of events that had Seth jumping up and down cheering his guys on. I know it was either the Singler knockout or the ensuing offensive possession of his team. I'd love to know if he really was cheering his guys on in correlation with the Singler knockdown - which was a very deliberate elbow to the jaw. Not even close to accidental contact.

2) Seth absolutely takes every opportunity to whine about the officiating and help perpetuate the "Duke gets all the calls myth". He's as active as Gary Williams on that front, if not moreso.

I do believe Scheyer traveled and I can't say it was because he was being fouled. I think the refs just missed that one. But they also missed the blatant Singler elbow, they shouldn't have t'd Gerald up, they wrongly called a tie-up that should have been a foul, and they frankly called at least 2 phantom fouls in a row on Duke that kept the Hokies shooting free throws in the last minute of the game, which of course kept them close. A few of those were really bogus. I remember one on Greg that I thought was really ticky tack in that last minute that stopped the clock and got them two more free points. So Seth's rant about the travel is nothing more than a joke when compared with all the other missed calls that put the Hokies in a position to even be close near the end.

Also, the announcers picking the travel to concentrate on is nothing more than the same old continued bias we've seen, especially from ESPN (and ABC in this instance) that we've seen for a good 5 years now. Someone kindly tell me the last time you saw a Duke game where the announcers spent any time on a late game call that went against Duke. It doesn't happen, plain and simple. And it's not just accidental. I wish we could get Knight to do all our games from now on. I think he's about the only guy left that will give us a fair shake. I have no desire to hear any other commentator from ESPN call any of our games. Maybe I'm missing someone, but right now I'm pretty tired of all of them and their subtle/not subtle "Duke got away with one there" crap.

Gary


Very good point on commentators focusing on a last minute call against Duke. The travel on G at end of Wake game comes to mind as a blatantly obvious miss in recent history that didnt get any coverage in game or in the post game highlights.

I just watched the Duke/UNC special on HBO and at the end there was a piece on the Duke haters. I think that sentiment summs it up whereby Duke has been the team to hate for a while and the media and opposing fans treat them accordingly. Its a sad by product of the team's dominance

[jv001]

I'm impressed with the teams performance this week. Two quality wins with lots of traveltime, tough crowds and class to attend. Way to go guys. Now let's win two this week and go into the ACC tournament as Regular Season Champs. Go Duke!

[_Gary]

I just watched the Duke/UNC special on HBO and at the end there was a piece on the Duke haters. I think that sentiment summs it up whereby Duke has been the team to hate for a while and the media and opposing fans treat them accordingly. Its a sad by product of the team's dominance

And I could put up with it if Duke had won about 3 or 4 titles in the last 10 years instead of just 1. I mean if Duke gets all the calls then someone needs to take up a collection for the refs, because they surely aren't getting paid enough to put us over the top. LOL. But it really is insane. I can take all the hatred when my team is winning championships consistently, but that really hasn't been the case in at least 10 years. We were strong in the ACC in the late 90's or early 2000's, but only had one national title to show for it. As far as national dominance, I do think you have to go back those 10 years. We've done nothing over the last 4 or so to warrant this continued hatred. I really thought it might die down after the last several flame-outs. But I think the media wants to keep it up. God forbid they'd push their viewers to develop the same attitude with UConn or UNC. Not gonna happen. So let's keep slamming Duke, even when they aren't winning NC's. Oy Vey!

[DukeDude]

I totally agree with you. Do people expect the announcers to just ignore the totally blatant travel? It was a pretty huge no-call. I rarely/almost never get the impression that announcers are anti-Duke. Len Elmore in the first MD game jumps out at me, but that's about it. People complain about the announcers after every single game. I've noticed that announcers rarely know anything about the players on the team Duke is playing (individual stories/backgrounds), and instead spend a lot of time talking about Duke's guys... no one brings this up. I feel like there is a tendency for announcers (no matter what sport) to get more excited about a possible upset... it's human nature. Ninety percent of the people watching any given game are rooting for an upset. Duke is almost always favored... it just goes with the territory.

Well Dykes did spend about an hour talking about VT should attack and defend Duke. Then he got pissy at the end when VT couldn't execute. Maybe I missed it, but I don't recall hearing anything about how Duke should attack or defend VT. How do we stop Vassallo? Save us Jimmy Dykes!

It is like Duke is just taken for granted as being same old DUKE. The announcers have gotten complacent. Nobody more so than Mike Patrick.

[InSpades]

I like how Greenberg was whining about the offensive foul where Delaney (I think it was) basically tried to run over McClure after executing a hand-off. The hand-off play would be soooo much more effective if the guy handing the ball off could follow it up by tackling the guy trying to cover the guy with the ball. Unfortunately that play is only legal in football (and rarely executed even there).

[longtimefan]

I missed all the good stuff the power went out here from the time hendo made the reverse jam till they were tied up.then again i didn't have to listen to the announcers that were obviously one sided to me anyway.i dont how Greenberg doesn't get a technical foul in most games.im glad we won.maybe we can take fsu to the proverbial woodshed.

[Bogie_12]

Does anyone know what the VT fans were chanting at Greg every time he hit the floor? OR know how to get ahold of one of those new alternate jerseys?

[RelativeWays]

Due to some prior engagements I wasn't able to keep up with the game, but I had a bit of fear for this one. I'm glad we were able to pull it off. I don't know the specifics of it yet but considering where we were in mid February (I thought we were pretty washed up) getting back on track against SJU and now 3 solid wins against WFU, UMD and VT, thats pretty impressive. Regardless of the outcome of the upcoming UNC game, if we can win against FSU at home, thats a solid finsih to what could have been a disaster. My only hope is we get Nolan back where he can contribute, but only when he's ready.

[wisteria]

Right, now that Clemson is sitting at 6 losses, we need to win the FSU game AND we need Clemson to beat WF to secure the 2nd place finish. In that case, we'll head into Chapel Hill for the 1st place (at least shared 1st place).

[coachbob]

Right, now that Clemson is sitting at 6 losses, we need to win the FSU game AND we need Clemson to beat WF to secure the 2nd place finish. In that case, we'll head into Chapel Hill for the 1st place (at least shared 1st place).

I disagree. We want Wake to finish ahead of Clemson so when we beat unc we have the tie breaker and win the ACC regular season.

[DukeDevilDeb]

Anyone else think Greenberg is a coach that gets a tremendous amount out of the talent at Tech? I do.

Tech is also a school that is hard not to like. As mentioned in DBR's pre-game report, their response to the tragedy speaks a lot about the place.

This is tough win against a team that I think are the "good guys".

I can think of a hundred things to call VTech and Seth Greenberg... but good guys never makes the list. Greenberg is the biggest whiner in the world... worse than Gary in my opinion. Some of his players are very good, but some are just this side of dirty. The elbow on Singler was just one example of this.

Funny how we all have different opinions of Duke opponents. To me Carolina will always be my #1 worst of the worse teams, with Maryland and VTech tied for #2! :p

[Papa John]

Jimmy Dykes is like the Steve Melnyk of basketball. Pompous, pretentious, inconsistent, and just repeatedly incorrect in every game. Did Jon walk? Yes. On the other side, the ridiculous T on Henderson received absolutely no comment whatsoever, even after the T turned into 5 VT points.

Three things summed up the officiating for me in this game...

#1: Gerald drives to the basket, gets held--not once, but twice--by Vassallo, yet shrugs him off and goes up for the slam, at which time he gets hacked by Vassallo... G comes down in a rather jubilant manner, whistle blows, and the ref calls... A TECHNICAL FOUL ON GERALD??!?!?? Not only did G arguably get fouled THREE times on the play, but I'm perplexed at exactly what rule justified the T that was called... A completely baffling play that results in a 5-point swing in VaTech's favor when they were in danger of being completely buried...

#2: A blatant and clearly NOT inadvertent elbow is thrown by Terrell Bell, I believe, into Singler's head, knocking Singler flat out, DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE OFFICIAL and NOTHING is called... And how do we know it's not inadvertent? Because the replay clearly shows Bell look directly at Singler, then raise the elbow to take him down, clear as day--this should be reviewed by the conference and Bell should be suspended for a game, IMO (though I tend to doubt it's going to happen)...

#3: On the infamous "Scheyer walked three times" play, it is actually pretty clear that prior to any 'walking' Scheyer does, the VaTech players, having failed to get a 5-second call on the inbound and failed to get the steal on the pass, ARE TRYING TO FOUL IN ORDER TO STOP THE CLOCK [thus the hacking on both sides of Scheyer], yet the officials aren't calling anything...

This crew was horrendous! (And I think both teams could say so, although the fact that we got the butt end of a complete BS technical call in addition to the butt end of a complete BS no-call on a very clear technical foul really irked me...)

[dukeENG2003]

Does anyone know what the VT fans were chanting at Greg every time he hit the floor? OR know how to get ahold of one of those new alternate jerseys?

Pretty sure it was "Tea-bag paulus", but I'm not 100% sure of it.

[Papa John]

The highlights showed Jon stealing the ball after a missed shot, hitting a 3, and then getting knocked down and rolled on by a Hokie. Foul called?

Best regards--Blueprofessor:):D

Oh yeah... I forgot THAT one... Make that four things that summed up the quality of officiating for me today...

Thanks, BP!

[diablesseblu]

Can anyone post the video of the elbow to Singler? I have elderly neighbors who unexpectedly needed a favor and I had to miss that part of the game.

[DBFAN]

Pretty sure it was "Tea-bag paulus", but I'm not 100% sure of it.

That is what they were saying, I just do not understand why that stuff is accepted. I hate the way Duke gets treated by crowds and the media, is there not some one in the media who would stick up for Duke?

[COYS]

That is what they were saying, I just do not understand why that stuff is accepted. I hate the way Duke gets treated by crowds and the media, is there not some one in the media who would stick up for Duke?

Coach Knight.

[dukeblue1206]

Anyone else get a kick out of seeing Coach K pick up that chair over his head during the time out? Almost like he wanted to throw it so bad but knew he could not. I feel that way watching this team sometimes this year. They can go parts of the game and look awesome and then on the next 10 trips up and down the floor they look like they could not beat most or that they just started playing together.

Regardless of that, very good win today. No matter what the talking heads want to talk about with missed calls on ESPN. On to Senior Night against FSU!

[zingit]

Does anyone know what the VT fans were chanting at Greg every time he hit the floor? OR know how to get ahold of one of those new alternate jerseys?

Not sure if this is appropriate, so feel free to delete this, mods, but I'm fairly certain the students were chanting, "Teabag Paulus," in reference to this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXNJQFi_R50). I think VT fans chanted that last year too. (And if you don't know what that means, well . . . look it up on urbandictionary.com.)

It's just like how UNC fans get so excited about Danny Green's dunk last year over Paulus. I mean, I get it, but at the same time, geez, Greg was just playing defense, and he can't help it that he's "only" 6'1". There was nothing else he could have done in those plays, so I admire him for just trying to help his team and not caring if he ends up getting posterized (or "you-tubed"). And he still takes crap from opposing fans about this stuff, and doesn't let it get to him. Ironically, it's plays like this that actually make me like Paulus more.

Edited to add that I seem to remember Maryland fans chanting the same thing at him, IIRC. For some reason, opposing fans really hate Paulus and thus really love to see other players dunk on him in the most embarrassing way possible.

Edited again to add that DukeENG2003 beat me to it.

[zingit]

Anyone else get a kick out of seeing Coach K pick up that chair over his head during the time out? Almost like he wanted to throw it so bad but knew he could not.

I thought, "He certainly takes after his old coach sometimes!" (i.e. Bob Knight). That scene just seemed weird to me because no one around him was really reacting to it.

[DukieInKansas]

And here (or is that hear? :D) I thought they were chanting "We Hate Paulus" because the announcers made a comment about how many Duke guards had heard that over the years. The ESPN 360 connection wasn't very good today. ;)

[RepoMan]

Just finished watching the game on DVR. Another gutty win on the road in a brutal ACC. Looking forward to seeing Nolan back.

Haven't had a chance to read the thread, but I have to point out something crazy. At one point near the end, Paulus goes to the line. The crowd chant is deafening. The annoucers state something like: "Well, its the same thing Duke point gurads have heard for years." Lord knows I hope not. At that moment, there were 10,000 people chanting "Teabag Paulus."

[Bluedog]

Just watched ESPN's midnight madness recap of the game. Some prime coverage was given to Scheyer's travel at the end with Gottlieb making fun of how ridiculous it was that the refs missed it (admittedly, it clearly was a travel). No mention of other questionable calls, though, that went against us, obviously. And the mediator kept saying "SchReyer"....

Gottlieb actually spoke positively of Duke, though, a couple minutes later when discussing the other possible #1 seeds besides Pitt, UConn, UNC, and Ok. According to them, really only Memphis and Duke have a chance to sneak in. And Gottlieb thinks Duke has proven much more than Memphis with 8 or 9 (I don't remember) top 50 RPI wins, and TWELVE top 60 wins. Gottlieb: "Duke beat a solid Maryland team on the road, Virginia Tech, crushed Purdue on the road, destroyed Xavier, lost to a Michigan team that plays much better at home while beating them on a neutral court...." While Memphis has only 4 Top 50 RPI wins, as I recall, even though they're undefeated in conference.

Never thought I'd hear Gottlieb speak on Duke's behalf. Not a fan of his, although he's growing on me slowly. He definitely researches teams very well and knows everybody on every team, especially when he gets assigned to do the game commentary in the north dakota - new mexico state games. ;)

In regards to the game, solid win. Really gutty and played well we needed. I liked Singler's play in the second half as I feel that he hasn't really taken over in a while. Although certainly G was the difference maker in the game, and Scheyer hit some clutch shots when needed. Hostile environment, tie game with 6 minutes to go, didn't let up and got the win. Excited to see us vs FSU on Tues. I think we're playing with a lot of confidence right now...Just hope Nolan gets better quickly. Certainly, there were things to improve on, but the overall consistency is getting better and we don't have 10 minute stretches of bad decisions/execution in the past several games a la Clemson and first half of Miami.

[DBFAN]

I did not watch any ESPN tonight, since I figured all they would do was say the game was given to us by a bad call, never mind we were up 3, and they would still have to score, or that we won by 7, so it does not really matter if they would have scored 3. But I was wondering if Coach Knight stood up for us any?

[ice-9]

Another
Blue Devil
Collapse


Duke this season is 6-3 in February for a 67% winning percentage. Not fantastic, but definitely an improvement over previous seasons.

[jdj4duke]

Adrian Branch on ESPN Midnight Madness tonight picked VT as the team that hurt themselves today. Almost verbatim, he said VT was at home, everything to win, had a chance to get the lead, and then never could get the job done. No comment on calls, refs, etc. In summation- VT, with everything to win, got beaten. He was actually pretty down on them for having all the stars aligned and plenty of motivation and still getting popped.

So I was just finishing this post when Gottlieb comes right back on the Vassallo dunk with "what is it with the Dukies always getting dunked on". Gee Doug- count the dunks today and I think maybe Duke actually had a few more. These guys are just so painfully obvious one would think they would be embarrased. But one would be wrong, of course

[Relics]

Did anyone else secretly admire the ESPN video of Scheyer's highlighted feet (in case we forgot where to look when a walk is in question)?

This Scheyer no-call fiasco has the feel of reporting on Cold War knife crime: missing the big picture. If you only have a 30-second spot, show the 13,242 more substantive and important highlights that over forty minutes decided the outcome of this game.

As far as Mike Patrick goes, I personally think he is losing it. This is likely old news, but a few weeks ago he had an especially awful afternoon, calling, among other things, Thomas' "first three of the season", which was clearly a not-particularly-long two, and, "Elliot Williams with the jam... I'm sorry, Elliot Plumlee with the jam."

But anyway, I've been prouder than hell over this last stretch of games.

[TussAgee11]

Three things summed up the officiating for me in this game...

#1: Gerald drives to the basket, gets held--not once, but twice--by Vassallo, yet shrugs him off and goes up for the slam, at which time he gets hacked by Vassallo... G comes down in a rather jubilant manner, whistle blows, and the ref calls... A TECHNICAL FOUL ON GERALD??!?!?? Not only did G arguably get fouled THREE times on the play, but I'm perplexed at exactly what rule justified the T that was called... A completely baffling play that results in a 5-point swing in VaTech's favor when they were in danger of being completely buried...

#2: A blatant and clearly NOT inadvertent elbow is thrown by Terrell Bell, I believe, into Singler's head, knocking Singler flat out, DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THE OFFICIAL and NOTHING is called... And how do we know it's not inadvertent? Because the replay clearly shows Bell look directly at Singler, then raise the elbow to take him down, clear as day--this should be reviewed by the conference and Bell should be suspended for a game, IMO (though I tend to doubt it's going to happen)...

#3: On the infamous "Scheyer walked three times" play, it is actually pretty clear that prior to any 'walking' Scheyer does, the VaTech players, having failed to get a 5-second call on the inbound and failed to get the steal on the pass, ARE TRYING TO FOUL IN ORDER TO STOP THE CLOCK [thus the hacking on both sides of Scheyer], yet the officials aren't calling anything...

This crew was horrendous! (And I think both teams could say so, although the fact that we got the butt end of a complete BS technical call in addition to the butt end of a complete BS no-call on a very clear technical foul really irked me...)

Stop terping.

Let me preface by saying I am an official myself.

The G play - G plays so well through contact that it is so hard to see the disadvantage he is put at. He is the hardest player on Duke to referee, plain and simple. And when he came down, he did the SAME EXACT THING he did after his jam in College Park. It could be considered taunting then and taunting today as well. You don't know what he said when he did it, neither do I. But I wasn't happy to see it at all. Next play. Go back and play defense. I trust the coaching staff will fix this.

I will refrain on the Singler elbow because I ran to the grocery store.

Lastly, the Scheyer play. VT wasn't trying to foul, they were trying to get a steal. They had a trap on. Again, a very difficult play to officiate. The official ends up too close to the play (just like on the Nolan play in College Park) and can't see two things at once. It's basically the same reason why T never gets nailed for the travel. First priority there is the slapping at the ball. I'm not sure if Scheyer got hit - he probably did but that is so hard to see at that point. At the same time, he is traveling. Let the kids decide the game - how many times have we heard that from fans here, on other boards, and ESPN too. Whatever, be happy Scheyer was strong with the basketball there.

Even funnier is some people screaming about 5 seconds. Sorry, can't happen in the back court. Ever. Rule. Period. But it would be funny to see the trail official trying to count 5 seconds the same time he was counting 10 :)

To conclude, stop terping. We won, good win, next play. The one great thing ESPN did today (ABC) was the replays where you could see both coaches. No matter what, K kept coaching the next play. When they messed up the McClure sub, it was still about the next play. He had every right to be ticked, you know Seth would have been. But Mike is better than that. Duke is better than that. The fans should be too.

Stop terping.

[tele]

Great win in a really hotly contested game. Great play by Gerald and Kyle, and Scheyer did well once again.

Quite a stretch of games, some hard fought wins, have to give the team and coaches credit for getting it done.

I liked seeing both G, in the first half, and Singler, in second, step up and want the ball and to take the tough shots. Seems to be some real leadership being displayed on the court in these games.

Sad the great win has to be sullied by the whining of the Duke despisers. Seems like the better Duke plays and the more they beat borderline teams with whiny coaches, the more the level of anti Duke garbage increases.

Oh well, as long as Duke fans and Alumni continue to support the team and to speak out on their behalf, I guess that is all you can do. There are still a lot of people all around the country that enjoy watching Duke play and win. Good going and keep it up, all the way to ... well you know.

[tele]

Stop terping.

Let me preface by saying I am an official myself.

Stop terping.

Were you also out at the store when all the complaining about the officials and Duke getting all the calls was going on?

Maybe if you'd seen the whole game you'd make a different call, oops can I say that to an actual official?

I called a few games myself years ago. These days I tend to cringe more from seeing horrible officiating, especially in the ACC, than I do from someone justifiably commenting on it. But then I always tended to call games more from a players perspective anyway. It was a flagrant elbow to singlers neck, anything good on sale at the store?.

[wisteria]

The elbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg)

[Constantstrain 81]

The Travel.

What I like about the game is that the big three all showed up. Gerald had the first half, Kyle the second, and Jon was steady throughout. Other players played their roles.

And ... we were tough. You have to be tough this time of year. You have to weather the runs and stay calm and make the plays. We did. That is what will take you further in the tourney. Great game.

[roywhite]

The elbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg)

Thanks, wisteria. Pretty obvious foul, and possibly a flagrant foul and/or ejection.

Actually, my first thought the morning after the game is not about the officiating, the fans, or the media.

Major props to freshman Elliot Williams. He has been such a help to this team; I love what he adds as on the ball defender (7 points for Delaney is a major stat from the game); he gets opportunity baskets, he can hit an occasional outside shot (an area for improvement, but hit a huge 3 yesterday), and has been poised and confident. That little running left-handed hook of his is a signature play.

Five or six games ago, he didn't play at all. Now I can hardly imagine this Duke team without him.

[SMO]

Stop terping.

Let me preface by saying I am an official myself.

The G play - G plays so well through contact that it is so hard to see the disadvantage he is put at. He is the hardest player on Duke to referee, plain and simple. And when he came down, he did the SAME EXACT THING he did after his jam in College Park. It could be considered taunting then and taunting today as well. You don't know what he said when he did it, neither do I. But I wasn't happy to see it at all. Next play. Go back and play defense. I trust the coaching staff will fix this.

I will refrain on the Singler elbow because I ran to the grocery store.

Lastly, the Scheyer play. VT wasn't trying to foul, they were trying to get a steal. They had a trap on. Again, a very difficult play to officiate. The official ends up too close to the play (just like on the Nolan play in College Park) and can't see two things at once. It's basically the same reason why T never gets nailed for the travel. First priority there is the slapping at the ball. I'm not sure if Scheyer got hit - he probably did but that is so hard to see at that point. At the same time, he is traveling. Let the kids decide the game - how many times have we heard that from fans here, on other boards, and ESPN too. Whatever, be happy Scheyer was strong with the basketball there.

Even funnier is some people screaming about 5 seconds. Sorry, can't happen in the back court. Ever. Rule. Period. But it would be funny to see the trail official trying to count 5 seconds the same time he was counting 10 :)

To conclude, stop terping. We won, good win, next play. The one great thing ESPN did today (ABC) was the replays where you could see both coaches. No matter what, K kept coaching the next play. When they messed up the McClure sub, it was still about the next play. He had every right to be ticked, you know Seth would have been. But Mike is better than that. Duke is better than that. The fans should be too.

Stop terping.

I think the "terping" stems more from the commentators and ESPN emphasis on one missed call (Scheyer's travel) than from immense dissatisfaction with the game. Would you then suggest Dykes and Nessler stop terping as well?

[SMO]

The elbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg)

Oh c'mon, stop terping :p

That's as dirty an elbow as I've seen all year. He wasn't even looking at the ball, just tried to line up Singler's chin. That should really be reviewed. Maybe Bilas can included it in his next conversation on elbows and how rough the game has gotten (if ESPN let's him).

[_Gary]

I will refrain on the Singler elbow because I ran to the grocery store.


How convenient of you. :rolleyes:

That was one of the most blatant, egregious elbows I've seen all year and you missed it?!!! Geesh. Oh, and Gerald getting fouled going up for the slam doesn't matter because he's so physical he can play through it? Great stuff...


Gary

[JStuart]

TussAgee11,
Thanks for the post, and welcome to the boards.
Let me defend our 'terping' in that it is similar to the officials calling the foul on the player who responds to the first hit/foul that is not seen.
It is the ridiculous attention drawn to Duke whenever a missed call goes our way that most of us are responding to, not the true "terping' mode of, 'we woulda won if it hadn't been for x foul'.
When the uproar over the traveling incident exploded, all we're saying is that we were hit with as many -potential-egregious calls as they, and why isn't any attention paid to those calls...by the announcers, reporters, fan boards? The local WRAL sports reporter even suggested listeners go to their website to find out more about the 'missed travelling call'. Amazing.
And then ESPN showed UNC highlights, and Hansbro' takes at least 4-5 steps trying to get a shot off underneath...but that is accepted, I guess.
JStuart

[MarkD83]

I live in Richmond and there was an article by Paul Woody in the Richmond Times about the game which clearly describes why Duke won and VT lost.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/sports/columnists/article/WOOD01_20090228-222324/218687/

Duke played harder and smarter. He did not mention the refs but did mentione two key plays:

Thompson missing a layup that would have put VT up 60-58 and Paulus's run out layup.

His comments were these were the deciding plays and Duke showed toughness and smarts when it counted.

End of analysis.

[OldPhiKap]

G's tech -- after it was called, G clapped his hands as if showing that he agreed with it. He was showing off a bit and got called for it. I wouldn't have blown the whistle for it, but so be it. You didn't see anyone else showing up after that.

Singler -- yeah, that was a cheap shot. Not sure if it was better or worse than the elbow Singler threw in the Carolina game. Like Singler, the VT guy should've gotten a tech if it had been seen. But I wouldn't start throwing "the league should take action" stones.

Refs -- I thought it was pretty consistent both ways. Not great, but not the travesty being described on this thread. We got every charge call except the seventh one Scheyer took (which was a more clear charge than several that fell our way). Those are close calls that, in many cases, could have gone the other way. We didn't get those calls because we're Duke -- we got them because they called that type of defensive step-up consistently all game. We adjusted, VT did not. Simple.

Announcers -- any criticism of them is probably too mild. They blew chunks.

[OldPhiKap]

I live in Richmond and there was an article by Paul Woody in the Richmond Times about the game which clearly describes why Duke won and VT lost.

http://www.timesdispatch.com/rtd/sports/columnists/article/WOOD01_20090228-222324/218687/

Duke played harder and smarter. He did not mention the refs but did mentione two key plays:

Thompson missing a layup that would have put VT up 60-58 and Paulus's run out layup.

His comments were these were the deciding plays and Duke showed toughness and smarts when it counted.

End of analysis.

Good article, thanks.

[CDu]

Tough win for us. VT is very capable of getting hot like that, so the run was not surprising (especially on their floor). We were fortunate to fight them off down the stretch.

I can't believe so many people are complaining about the technical foul called on Henderson. It was absolutely the correct call. It doesn't matter if he said anything or not. He very clearly and demonstratively stared down Vassallo after the dunk, which is considered taunting. The refs are supposed to call the unsportsmanlike penalty there. Players simply aren't allowed to do that. Sometimes it doesn't get called, but it is supposed to be called. Did he get fouled? Probably, and that should have been called too. But that doesn't absolve Henderson from getting called for unsportsmanlike.

I haven't watched the replay of the elbow on Singler, but my first impression was that it was intentional and dirty. It looked like he eyed Singler up and then threw the elbow. That's unacceptable. It will probably go unpunished.

Scheyer should have been called for a travel. However, VT was playing aggressive defense going for the steal and could have been called for a foul. The officials frequently "let them play" there. In any case, it shouldn't be the emphasis of the game. There were so many missed calls throughout the game both ways. It's always annoying (though understandable) when people harp on a call at the end of the game as though that was the only call that was wrong.

It was nice to see Singler bounce back after a couple of "down" games and a quite first half. He was huge in the second half. Solid performances by Henderson (not a great shooting night, but good overall game from him) and Scheyer, and solid workmanlike performance from McClure off the bench. Williams did another solid job defending Delaney. Would have liked to have seen better production from Thomas, Paulus, and Zoubek, but oh well.

[TNDukeFan]

...and it was pleasantly innocuous. Showed GH's dunk but not the technical, no mention of refs at all. Even Dykes and Nessler stayed on topic. Good recap.

[dukegirlinsc]

The elbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg)

Wow, I didn't realize it was that obvious. Of course, THAT wasn't highlighted and over-analyzed. Whatever.

[dukegirlinsc]

IMO, Bilas tries so hard to be unbais that he actually ends up subconciously picking the other teams over and over again. When he commentates, he always gives the other team so much more credit than us. Sigh.....

AGREED. It drives me up the frickin' wall. Jay BIAS.

[arnie]

I believe the lack of coverage and commentary during the game on the elbow to Singler was intentional. The replay was shown once (very quickly), the idiot announcer said he didn't know if it was intentional and that was it. Singler stayed on the floor while they came down and I think hit a 3. No more mention of the play which was obviously very nasty and typical of a thug coached team.

This reminds me of the CBS coverage during the 2001 championship run. Every effort made to disparage our wins - and unfortunately the casual fans by into the concept.

[TussAgee11]

How convenient of you. :rolleyes:

That was one of the most blatant, egregious elbows I've seen all year and you missed it?!!! Geesh. Oh, and Gerald getting fouled going up for the slam doesn't matter because he's so physical he can play through it? Great stuff...


Gary

I missed it because I was at the store. Clearly, I am not qualified to say "sorry, no comment. Didn't see it." :/

Not just coming at you Gary, some other posters said similar things. I don't excuse the miss of Jon's arms getting raked or G getting hit to the basket. I'm just explaining why that is a very difficult play to referee. Same way T is difficult to officiate. Same way the Neal play was almost impossible to officiate.

The game is getting harder to officiate - much harder. As the playcaller notes, only call the obvious ones you are certain of. It is easy to see a replay from a different angle, slowed down, to see things. People just need to get used to this sort of thing happening, because no official can call a perfect game of college basketball. Maybe 15-20 years ago. Not anymore.

As for the announcers, I really don't care. Why should it matter what people SAY about the officials. What matters to me is how they actually did. Analogy - Mike Patrick:Analyzing basketball :: Dykes:Analyzing refereeing. Nobody who does so is actually qualified to analyze officiating, including myself. I'm just trying to offer an opinion from a non-fan perspective.

And sorry I ran to the store and missed the Singler play, working 14 hours a day sometimes during the week kind of forces you to sneak in the errands whenever you can. :eek:

[TussAgee11]

One more thing to add.

Officials do adapt. I believe this is why G got the T called on him. He did something similar vs. Maryland and didn't get whacked. I would not be surprised at all if part of this crew's pregame was "lets make sure he doesn't do that again." And when VT plays again, I'm sure it will be "make sure to watch players in dead ball situations, especially Bell. And ensure every box out he make is legal."

If you go back and watch Hansborough's first 10 games, it is hilarious. The officials were COMPLETELY lost. Now, they do a much better job with him because they have some expectations on what is about to happen. Anticipating the play (not the call) helps officials get to the correct spot and look for the correct things.

I guarantee you next time Scheyer gets the ball in a similar situation, the official is not going to be as surprised that Scheyer was that strong with the basketball. They will take Saturday's play, store it away, and make an adjustment next time. Probably will end up being a foul right away, because it seems clear Scheyer will not lose the ball in that situation. If he does, it must have been a foul. Will go our way next time.

I'm reminded of a great article I read on the football side of things before the BCS championship game. Those guys arrived days early and watched film after film after film of what to expect every player on the field to do. That mindset is no different than what an ACC crew will do before every game as well.

[BobbyFan]

Singler -- yeah, that was a cheap shot. Not sure if it was better or worse than the elbow Singler threw in the Carolina game. Like Singler, the VT guy should've gotten a tech if it had been seen. But I wouldn't start throwing "the league should take action" stones.

Completely disagree. The incident was intentional and blatant - much more so than Henderson's shot on Hansbrough a few years ago. It was not a basketball play at all. I don't think he will be suspended, but a large part if it is that ABC didn't make a big deal of it at the time and Kyle was eventually ok.

[tendev]

Adrian Branch on ESPN Midnight Madness tonight picked VT as the team that hurt themselves today. Almost verbatim, he said VT was at home, everything to win, had a chance to get the lead, and then never could get the job done. No comment on calls, refs, etc. In summation- VT, with everything to win, got beaten. He was actually pretty down on them for having all the stars aligned and plenty of motivation and still getting popped.

So I was just finishing this post when Gottlieb comes right back on the Vassallo dunk with "what is it with the Dukies always getting dunked on". Gee Doug- count the dunks today and I think maybe Duke actually had a few more. These guys are just so painfully obvious one would think they would be embarrased. But one would be wrong, of course

Dukies get dunked on because our players are the only ones with the courage to stand there and try to take a charge. Invariably, Gerald goes up for a dunk the opposing players turn and run away. I don't know how many times that happened in the Maryland game. No one likes to get dunked on and so our players are the only ones with the self-confidence take the chance.

[Tom B.]

The one great thing ESPN did today (ABC) was the replays where you could see both coaches. No matter what, K kept coaching the next play. When they messed up the McClure sub, it was still about the next play. He had every right to be ticked, you know Seth would have been. But Mike is better than that. Duke is better than that. The fans should be too.


When you say "they" messed up the McClure substitution, are you referring to the refs or the Duke coaching staff? Because I thought the refs actually got that one right.

If I recall correctly, Coach K took McClure out and put Paulus in during a dead ball with 1:04 on the clock (I think Va. Tech was shooting free throws).

On the ensuing inbounds play, Paulus was held and a foul was called before the ball was inbounded, so no time went off the clock.

While Paulus was shooting his free throws, Coach K sent McClure to the scorer's table to sub for Paulus if he made his second free throw.

Paulus missed his first free throw, but made the second. Rather than stopping play to let McClure sub for Paulus, though, the refs let Virginia Tech initiate play. That's when the Duke coaches jumped up and pointed at McClure, yelling "Sub!" and the refs stopped play to see what was going on.

The problem, though, was that no time had gone off the clock since McClure had been taken out. Isn't there a rule that says that a player who is taken out can't be put back in the game until time has gone off the clock? I seem to remember a rule like that (though I'll confess I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, or if the rule has been changed recently).

If I'm remembering the rule correctly, then I think the officials got it right by not allowing the substitution.

[rthomas]

The elbow (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg)

I would say that this should be reviewed by the league and Bell should be suspended for a game....BUT they do play the Tarheels next.

[DevilCastDownfromDurham]

I actually thought that the officiating wasn't so bad (or at least was equally bad to both teams). I hate the fact that they "let them play" to the point of diminishing the value of skill (which they do in the ACC all the time these days) and to the point of clear, blatant injury (which they are doing more and more, for what reason I can't imagine). But they let both teams "play" all game. No gripes there. The coverage, OTOH, was truly despicable, but I hit that in another thread and I'd rather not rehash it here.

Something I did notice is that we made a specific effort to run some plays for Z in the second 10 minutes of the first half. I know some folks have been calling for that, but it really backfired on us tonight. I felt like we were in complete control until we changed things up. There were some poor/tough entry passes that didn't work and Brian failed on some specific plays and as a result our O ground to a halt and VTech was given new life. I guess I understand the thought process, but it hurt us yesterday and I'm not sure we gained much from the attempts. I'd genuinely be interested in someone laying out a way that Brian's inside-out half-court game can be compatible with what we are running. It seems to me that any 7 foot aircraft carrier just clogs up our driving lanes, gums up our defensive switching, etc. I'm not questioning the coaching or Z's value to the team, I'm just having trouble putting the pieces together in my head.

Finally, VTech deserves credit for adjusting to G's play, but he also looked like he was hurt/winded/something. It seemed like we went to a delay in the last 3-4 minutes of the first half and that G came out very gun shy in the second half. I wonder if G tweaked something minor (announcers mentioned cramps), if VTech's brutal physicality on drives presented what K considered an unacceptable risk of injury to our players (esp. G) or what. Just curious if anyone else noticed this and had an idea what was up.

All in all, I was extremely impressed with our effort. This was a very tough game and it took a lot of guys executing very well under extraordinarily challenging circumstances to come out with a W. Everyone on the team and the staff should be very proud of how we played.

[Virginian]

The announcers said several times that G came out of the locker room during halftime to get some cooler air and that he was carrying 4 bottles of water. The implication was that he might have been dehydrated. The announcers seemed to be wondering if G wasn't slowed up in the second half because of this. I didn't see it reported on after the game, however.

[3rd Dukie]

Wow, I didn't realize it was that obvious. Of course, THAT wasn't highlighted and over-analyzed. Whatever.

MY reaction exactly!

I had no idea it was so flagrant.

[TussAgee11]

When you say "they" messed up the McClure substitution, are you referring to the refs or the Duke coaching staff? Because I thought the refs actually got that one right.

If I recall correctly, Coach K took McClure out and put Paulus in during a dead ball with 1:04 on the clock (I think Va. Tech was shooting free throws).

On the ensuing inbounds play, Paulus was held and a foul was called before the ball was inbounded, so no time went off the clock.

While Paulus was shooting his free throws, Coach K sent McClure to the scorer's table to sub for Paulus if he made his second free throw.

Paulus missed his first free throw, but made the second. Rather than stopping play to let McClure sub for Paulus, though, the refs let Virginia Tech initiate play. That's when the Duke coaches jumped up and pointed at McClure, yelling "Sub!" and the refs stopped play to see what was going on.

The problem, though, was that no time had gone off the clock since McClure had been taken out. Isn't there a rule that says that a player who is taken out can't be put back in the game until time has gone off the clock? I seem to remember a rule like that (though I'll confess I'm not sure if I'm remembering correctly, or if the rule has been changed recently).

If I'm remembering the rule correctly, then I think the officials got it right by not allowing the substitution.

You are correct on this rule - Paulus could have come out, but McClure could not go back in.

Now, no time appeared to come off the clock, but I remember Singler catching the ball in the corner, then a whistle coming from in front of the VT bench. You'd have to ask the official timer whether or not the clock started (it stayed at 1:04, but it still could have started and stopped). PTS doesn't pick up on this sort of thing, if the trail official administering the inbound clicks the clock in, and another ref has a whistle somewhere else, there is no way to know if the game clock has started or not.

I think you are correct in what WAS ruled, although I'd be curious to know the communication between the officials and the table. That could have been taken care of before K had a fit, but he seemed to accept the explanation.

And if it had been Seth/Gary instead of Mike, you know it would be a bigger deal!

[captmojo]

I'll terp a bit. Just one bit, concerning all the times Jon was knocked to the floor, in the first half, coming down from taking a jump shot. Never was called. :mad: He hit most of these shots, by the way. :)


I'm not one to gossip now, but I've heard from a taxi driver, who had a cousin that used to work with the sister of a custodian, who mopped the floor at Notre Dame Joyce Center on Tuesdays and Fridays. Well...he had a brother that used to see Seth Greenberg taking defensive lessons from Doh when he was there. They used to call this defensive style "Let's hack'em till they either a) give up the ball, or b) hear the whistle blow." I thought that might explain what happened to Jon there at the end. :D

[DukeUsul]

I bumped into Greg Paulus at brunch this morning. I was charged with an offensive foul. :-P

Good gritty game by the men. I really like this team. Obviously I'd love to see perfect FT shooting late, but we seem to be playing stronger down the stretch than the past few years.

[weezie]

Two favorite "Sethmoments" from the game: 1)while he was kneeling courtside, complaining to the ref and the ref bent down to hear what old Seth-berg had to say...the ref actually bent over since Sethy was too chagrined to stand up and talk to the ref and 2) the Sethster chummily reaching out and wrapping his arm around the ref's shoulder while chatting about some imagined infraction and Sethy's disappointment over not being allowed to let his players loose like yard dogs.

I can only imagine the yowling hordes if K had the temerity to hug a ref during a game.:confused:

[SMO]

I can't believe so many people are complaining about the technical foul called on Henderson. It was absolutely the correct call. It doesn't matter if he said anything or not. He very clearly and demonstratively stared down Vassallo after the dunk, which is considered taunting. The refs are supposed to call the unsportsmanlike penalty there. Players simply aren't allowed to do that. Sometimes it doesn't get called, but it is supposed to be called. Did he get fouled? Probably, and that should have been called too. But that doesn't absolve Henderson from getting called for unsportsmanlike.


My issue is that they didn't T up Vassallo when he did the exact same thing after a dunk over Scheyer.

[Papa John]

Stop terping.

It appears perhaps that someone needs to teach you the definition of "terping"... As I pointed out, both teams had legitimate reasons to complain about the officiating--it was atrocious all around, however you wish to dice it... That, my friend, is far from "terping"... (if you want a good example of "terping," feel free to read Seth Greenberg's comments from yesterday's post-game interview--that was "terping.")

I rarely comment on officiating, and know the game very well, thank you... I merely pointed out a couple of situations [and agreed with a fourth raised by another poster--the Scheyer trey where he was streamrolled on the sideline by VaTech] that provided the clearest examples from our perspective of how horrendous the officiating in this game actually was, and indicated my opinion that Scheyer was gang-mugged during the infamous travel call in the last 20 seconds [i.e., the violations canceled one another out]... Perhaps you were at the grocery store then, too--I don't know...

Watch a replay of the Singler play, since you also missed that one... It is the type of play that would likely earn a fine in the NBA, and should always earn a suspension in college--that's how bad of a missed whistle it was... Oddly, I have not heard the analysts mention that play once in post-game commentaries...

[mcdukie]

My issue is that they didn't T up Vassallo when he did the exact same thing after a dunk over Scheyer.

My issue is that Vassallo clearly fouled G on the dunk. I agree that G can't express that much emotion and not expect to get a T. We live and we learn.

[Channing]

for the Duke gets all the calls folks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg

clearly the refs just call it as they see it, and if they dont see something, its not duke's fault.

[devildeac]

G's tech -- after it was called, G clapped his hands as if showing that he agreed with it. He was showing off a bit and got called for it. I wouldn't have blown the whistle for it, but so be it. You didn't see anyone else showing up after that.

Singler -- yeah, that was a cheap shot. Not sure if it was better or worse than the elbow Singler threw in the Carolina game. Like Singler, the VT guy should've gotten a tech if it had been seen. But I wouldn't start throwing "the league should take action" stones.

Refs -- I thought it was pretty consistent both ways. Not great, but not the travesty being described on this thread. We got every charge call except the seventh one Scheyer took (which was a more clear charge than several that fell our way). Those are close calls that, in many cases, could have gone the other way. We didn't get those calls because we're Duke -- we got them because they called that type of defensive step-up consistently all game. We adjusted, VT did not. Simple.

Announcers -- any criticism of them is probably too mild. They blew chunks.

T on G-OK give him that one for "woofing." But I want one called on Vasallo then, too, for complaining to the refs by waving his arms up and down after he was called for a foul. It was right after the call, he's looking right at a ref and complaining about the call.

Singler's elbow was called as he wrestled for ball control. Flagrant/T-whatever. The vt thug looked at Singler as he moved into position on D, raised his elbow and planted it about chin level. Premeditated and dangerous. G had a game suspension for his flagrant/T on hans 2 years ago. Send the films to the acc office and see IF they do anything about it. I fear open season on our players if that kind of assault is repeated and not punished in an expeditious fashion.

[CDu]

My issue is that they didn't T up Vassallo when he did the exact same thing after a dunk over Scheyer.

This is a gross overstatement of what Vassallo did. There is really no comparison between what Vassallo did (brief stare at Scheyer) and what Henderson did (demonstrative spin around and more sustained look). It also didn't help that Henderson's showboating came right in the face of the ref, while Vassallo's was facing away from the ref. Vassallo's was a borderline infraction - Henderson's was an unquestionable infraction.

[77devil]

T on G-OK give him that one for "woofing." But I want one called on Vasallo then, too, for complaining to the refs by waving his arms up and down after he was called for a foul. It was right after the call, he's looking right at a ref and complaining about the call.

Singler's elbow was called as he wrestled for ball control. Flagrant/T-whatever. The vt thug looked at Singler as he moved into position on D, raised his elbow and planted it about chin level. Premeditated and dangerous. G had a game suspension for his flagrant/T on hans 2 years ago. Send the films to the acc office and see IF they do anything about it. I fear open season on our players if that kind of assault is repeated and not punished in an expeditious fashion.

I sent the video to the ACC office this morning. Don't hold your breath.

[devildeac]

I sent the video to the ACC office this morning. Don't hold your breath.

Thank you. That's why I capitalized IF in my post. I am not holding my breath. Wonder if the coaching staff sends the video, too, looking out for the future safety of our players.

[Kewlswim]

The announcers said several times that G came out of the locker room during halftime to get some cooler air and that he was carrying 4 bottles of water. The implication was that he might have been dehydrated. The announcers seemed to be wondering if G wasn't slowed up in the second half because of this. I didn't see it reported on after the game, however.

Hi,

G has asthma. Not once did the announcers bring that up. I think that was part of what was happening. Anybody else have any insight?

GO DUKE!

[wisteria]

Hi,

G has asthma. Not once did the announcers bring that up. I think that was part of what was happening. Anybody else have any insight?

GO DUKE!

hmmm... I thought I heard that the "asthma" thing was more of "not being in game shape".

[devildeac]

hmmm... I thought I heard that the "asthma" thing was more of "not being in game shape".

G did make a statement shortly after his 1st year or before his 2nd year began that this was the case (conditioning and not asthma).

[marinbobbyduhon]

I sent the video to the ACC office this morning. Don't hold your breath.

Could someone send this video on to ESPN, also; and ask them why this blatant and potentially dangerous foul was so overlooked/under reported during the game, while they went on and on about the travel call. I would email the link, but I don't know how.

Thanks in advance!

[SMO]

This is a gross overstatement of what Vassallo did. There is really no comparison between what Vassallo did (brief stare at Scheyer) and what Henderson did (demonstrative spin around and more sustained look). It also didn't help that Henderson's showboating came right in the face of the ref, while Vassallo's was facing away from the ref. Vassallo's was a borderline infraction - Henderson's was an unquestionable infraction.

Actually, Vassallo not only gave Scheyer a stare on that dunk he waved his arms and yelled after another. So what's your answer on the second Vassallo "expression of emotion"? And how about when he argued a foul call against him? No T's for any of these? How can you say they are not even close when Henderson didn't even open his mouth??

[roywhite]

Like the proverbial lion, we are entering March with a snarl and a growl. Our coach is amped up, on the verge of throwing chairs as he challenges his players and fans. One player, Gerald Henderson, has emerged as a star, and resorts to tight spots by dunking on opponents and woofing at them. Another player, Elliot Williams, has gone from seldom used reserve to key defender and all-around spark plug, playing with plenty of "verve". A versatile backcourt man, Jon Scheyer, has morphed into an unflappable point guard. Even our older fanbase is tired of one-sided media coverage and upset when dubious calls are made, or missed.

This March may be a little different than the last few.

I like it.

[CDu]

Actually, Vassallo not only gave Scheyer a stare on that dunk he waved his arms and yelled after another. So what's your answer on the second Vassallo "expression of emotion"? And how about when he argued a foul call against him? No T's for any of these? How can you say they are not even close when Henderson didn't even open his mouth??

You are all over the place, and it doesn't appear that you understand the definition of a technical.

Henderson did not get a technical foul for an expression of emotion. He got a technical for, very clearly, taunting - which is an unsportsmanlike penalty. With regard to some other dunk where Vassallo waved his arms or yelled, that doesn't warrant a technical, because it's not directly taunting an opposing player. There's no penalty for showing emotion, just a penalty when you CLEARLY direct the show of emotion toward another player.

My comments were in regard to the post in which you suggested that Vassallo did the EXACT SAME THING as Henderson. I said that is completely incorrect. Henderson made a very obvious taunt with the staredown. He went out of his way to do it, spinning around to get in his face. It was an obvious call. Vassallo had a MUCH less obvious/blatant stare in Scheyer's direction. He landed facing Scheyer, looked at him for a split second, and ran back downcourt. If you can't understand the difference in severity, then I can't help you. Making it even more understandable is that Henderson did it facing the official, while Vassallo was facing away from the official.

I have no answer (nor do I particularly care) on the second one, because I don't remember the play. Vassallo may well have warranted a technical for his response to whatever foul you're discussing. He may or may not have warranted a technical for excessive complaining.

But it appears that the problem here is that perhaps you aren't completely understanding what typically warrants a technical and what doesn't. The fact that you've equated all of these things at least partly on the basis of the fact Henderson never opened his mouth suggests you are misunderstanding the rules here. You can show emotion without getting T'd up, and you can get a technical without mouthing off. General displays of emotion are fine. Displays of emotion clearly directed at another player (or official) are not. Henderson made a very clear show of emotion at a player. Vassallo had a much less clear show of emotion at Scheyer and a big show of emotion to no one in particular. The first may have been a borderline technical (as I said the first time) and the second is not a technical. If he was overly demonstrative toward an official, that very possibly could have been called a technical.

[bjornolf]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZZuG_ygtUg

Even though multiple people have posted video of the elbow since Tussagee's first post but before his last, we have yet to see hear his reaction to it. So, oh revered referee, what's your reaction to it now that you've seen it?

[_Gary]

Darn it. Still haven't had anyone look back at the game tape (sorry, I didn't get a chance to record it myself) and tell me what the context was of Greenberg cheering his guys on at one point in the 2nd half. I honestly thought I remembered it coming right after, and I do mean right after, the elbow to Singler that knocked him down. Seems like the video went right to Seth where he was clapping his hands and exhorting his players to play even more physical and with even more emotion. I'd really like to know if anyone else saw what I'm talking about. I hope the shot of Seth and his cheering had to do with something other than the Singler takedown. It bears looking into, IMHO.


Gary

[CDu]

Darn it. Still haven't had anyone look back at the game tape (sorry, I didn't get a chance to record it myself) and tell me what the context was of Greenberg cheering his guys on at one point in the 2nd half. I honestly thought I remembered it coming right after, and I do mean right after, the elbow to Singler that knocked him down. Seems like the video went right to Seth where he was clapping his hands and exhorting his players to play even more physical and with even more emotion. I'd really like to know if anyone else saw what I'm talking about. I hope the shot of Seth and his cheering had to do with something other than the Singler takedown. It bears looking into, IMHO.


Gary

After the takedown, the Hokies got a rebound and took it downcourt for a 4-on-5. I'm not sure what happened after that, but I'm quite sure that he wasn't celebrating the elbow/clothesline/takedown. I'm guessing he probably didn't even fully see the action on that particular altercation.

[_Gary]

After the takedown, the Hokies got a rebound and took it downcourt for a 4-on-5. I'm not sure what happened after that, but I'm quite sure that he wasn't celebrating the elbow/clothesline/takedown. I'm guessing he probably didn't even fully see the action on that particular altercation.

I really hope you are correct. I'd just like to know the exact sequence and when he was hooping and clapping. It had better not have been directly after Singler went down. That would be a huge, and deeply disturbing, revelation if it could be verified by video.


Gary

[CDu]

I really hope you are correct. I'd just like to know the exact sequence and when he was hooping and clapping. It had better not have been directly after Singler went down. That would be a huge, and deeply disturbing, revelation if it could be verified by video.


Gary

He was hooping and clapping throughout the game - that's what he does. Thus, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if he was hooping and clapping directly after the Singler sequence. As I noted elsewhere, even if he was cheering at that time, I'd suspect the cheering had nothing to do with the Singler incident. I wouldn't be surprised if Greenberg didn't even see the play happen - I didn't catch it when I was watching it live. There were a lot of things going on, and a lot of other things that he could have been excited about (VT was starting to make a run I believe).

I don't think there's any way you'll be able to verify with video that Greenberg was celebrating the Singler incident. For one thing, I'm very positive that he wouldn't cheer for such a thing. For another, even if he did you probably wouldn't be able to tell it from the video without a closeup on what Greenberg is saying. Feel free to look, but I think you're fishing a little too deep on this one.

[_Gary]

I don't know that I'm barking up the wrong tree. That would imply that I was desperately looking for something that had no chance of actually being there. And while Seth is very animated most of the time, he was not literally cheering, pumping his fists, and exhorting his players with gusto every second of the game. But I do distinctly remember that at some point shortly after Singler went down Seth was pumping his fists and clapping his hands as if to say "That's it guys, keep it up". Admittedly I doubt I'll get a definitive answer unless someone was at the game and actually saw everything unfold. But make no mistake, Seth certainly teaches physical play that crosses the line and I don't think it would be beyond him to applaud one of his players knocking down a Duke player.


Gary

[CDu]

I don't know that I'm barking up the wrong tree. That would imply that I was desperately looking for something that had no chance of actually being there. And while Seth is very animated most of the time, he was not literally cheering, pumping his fists, and exhorting his players with gusto every second of the game. But I do distinctly remember that at some point shortly after Singler went down Seth was pumping his fists and clapping his hands as if to say "That's it guys, keep it up". Admittedly I doubt I'll get a definitive answer unless someone was at the game and actually saw everything unfold. But make no mistake, Seth certainly teaches physical play that crosses the line and I don't think it would be beyond him to applaud one of his players knocking down a Duke player.


Gary


And as I said, there are PLENTY of things he could be saying "that's it guys, keep it up," that happened in a similar time frame to the Singler incident. You're suggesting this as though Greenberg cheering his team on at the time of the Singler incident could only be related to that incident.

You're more or less suggesting the possibility that Greenberg specifically saw the elbow and then cheered the behavior. I think that that is ridiculous. He may coach overly physical play, but I seriously doubt he coaches up intentionally dirty play.

I certainly don't like Greenberg. He's sleazy and he clearly has a chip on his shoulder, especially when it comes to Duke. But I really do think you're reaching on this one. The Singler play coincided with a stoppage of play shortly thereafter, and the Hokies were in the middle of the run. The obvious explanation for the Greenberg celebration is that he was cheering his team to CONTINUE to make the run during a timeout.

I have real trouble buying the possibility that even a jerk like Greenberg would be actively cheering (at least knowingly) for a dirty play by his players. There are just so many other things that he could have been cheering about at that exact moment (if it really even WAS at the moment you think it was) other than the worst case scenario to which you've jumped.

[_Gary]

You're suggesting this as though Greenberg cheering his team on at the time of the Singler incident could only be related to that incident...

You're more or less suggesting the possibility that Greenberg specifically saw the elbow and then cheered the behavior. I think that that is ridiculous. He may coach overly physical play, but I seriously doubt he coaches up intentionally dirty play.

I have real trouble buying the possibility that even a jerk like Greenberg would be actively cheering (at least knowingly) for a dirty play by his players. There are just so many other things that he could have been cheering about at that exact moment (if it really even WAS at the moment you think it was) other than the worst case scenario to which you've jumped.

Three things then I'll let this go.

Number one, I'm not suggesting that Greenberg would be cheering specifically because he saw Kyle on the ground and was somehow hoping for a Nolan Part Deux repeat. I have simply asked a question: At what exact point was he pumping his fists, clapping his hands and shouting encouragement to his team when I saw a specific sideline view of this shortly after the elbow? It was clear to me as ABC was going to break that they were not showing a live shot, but a video shot of Greenberg that had happened moments before going to the timeout. He was looking down at the Duke end of the court, not his own offensive end when he was exhorting his guys. So his clapping was in the right direction for it to have been about the defensive play of his guys, not some made basket on the Hokie's offensive end.

Number two, I strongly disagree with you that Seth doesn't teach overtly physical play which can lead to and include dirty play. Now that's something that's ridiculous. The guy absolutely doesn't mind some rough stuff on the court. I never said I thought he wanted or taught his guys to actually injure other players. You're reading too much into my post if that's your impression. But I do think he likes to see things get very, very physical just for the intimidation factor. He's not beyond that, IMHO.

Number three. This is not the first, nor will it be the last time that I've been accused of reaching. There have been several times over the years when someone has accused me of that. I'm proud to say that often I feel I've been justified in my original proposal. But this is one instance where I sincerely do hope I'm wrong.

Nuff said (from my end).

Gary

[CDu]

Number one, I'm not suggesting that Greenberg would be cheering specifically because he saw Kyle on the ground and was somehow hoping for a Nolan Part Deux repeat. I have simply asked a question: At what exact point was he pumping his fists, clapping his hands and shouting encouragement to his team when I saw a specific sideline view of this shortly after the elbow? It was clear to me as ABC was going to break that they were not showing a live shot, but a video shot of Greenberg that had happened moments before going to the timeout. He was looking down at the Duke end of the court, not his own offensive end when he was exhorting his guys. So his clapping was in the right direction for it to have been about the defensive play of his guys, not some made basket on the Hokie's offensive end.

And as I said, there are numerous reasons he could be cheering his guys that are completely unrelated to the Singler incident. Perhaps he was celebrating a big defensive stop. Perhaps he knew the momentum was shifting, and was imploring them to push the tempo and spark a run. Again - the time of the cheering may very well have little to nothing to do with the Singler incident.

That's why I think you're reaching. You're taking a quick clip of Greenberg cheering (with minimal if any context) and suggesting the possibility that he's cheering about the dirty play on Singler. Given all of the possible reasons that he could be cheering (even at that EXACT moment), I think it is a big reach to say it was directly related to the Singler play.


Number two, I strongly disagree with you that Seth doesn't teach overtly physical play which can lead to and include dirty play. Now that's something that's ridiculous. The guy absolutely doesn't mind some rough stuff on the court. I never said I thought he wanted or taught his guys to actually injure other players. You're reading too much into my post if that's your impression. But I do think he likes to see things get very, very physical just for the intimidation factor. He's not beyond that, IMHO.

I never said he was above coaching up physical play. I completely agree that he coaches his team to play physical. So does Coach K. I said he doesn't coach up dirty play. There's a difference. I don't believe he (or any major college basketball coach, for that matter) coaches dirty play. Quite frankly, you wouldn't get far as a coach if you did. I think he coaches up very physical play, and he has some players who cross the line. I don't particularly care for that style of coaching, but I do think there's a distinction to be made there.