MBB: Duke 78 Maryland 67 Post-Game Thread

[Troublemaker]

Please discuss here.

[superdave]

We left a lot of free throws on the table. That's my only complaint.

A real gutty win. We would not have won this the last two years. Thank you depth, health, maturity!

[_Gary]

Great, great win for the good guys. I have a feeling this game will propel us forward the rest of the way to the ACC tourney. Had we lost this one, I would have matter-a-factly said the season was over. Glad that didn't happen. Now I feel really good about the remainder of the schedule. I think we overcame some stuff tonight and got our swagger back.

Gary

[gwwilburn]

Speaking of health, I hope Nolan is OK. He's had a really rough few weeks. That screen was pretty much legal, but the forearm was kind of cheap.

[House G]

Very nice W. Elliot Williams is getting better exponentially!

[FireOgilvie]

I thought Paulus had a really good game... it's good to see him embracing his role off the bench and knocking down a couple threes.

Elliot was the difference today. He was huge on the offensive glass.

[karmacoma]

I think it's hard not to be completely pleased with this game. Sure, you can quibble here and there (esp. re: Kyle's game), but we came into a VERY hostile atmosphere and our guys -- most notably Elliott, who's emergence is nothing short of a revelation -- handled it beautifully. And we really played fantastic defense in the second half after getting abused in the lane in the first half. Everyone seems to know their role and is doing their part. I'm as pleased with this win as any win this season.

[FerryFor50]

We left a lot of free throws on the table. That's my only complaint.

A real gutty win. We would not have won this the last two years. Thank you depth, health, maturity!

Definitely a tough it out win. A vast reversal from the Clemson game.

[mgtr]

Not exactly a WWE Smackdown, but a win, nevertheless. Quality shows. I hope that Nolan is OK, he is needed.

[BlueintheFace]

Tough, Gritty, ACC Win.

1) Zou and Paulus really lifted us in the first half when it seemed like MD was controlling the game and pulling away.

2) I hope Nolan is okay. He was playing pretty well until the screen.

3) After the team came out of the injury/commercial timeout G was ANGRY. You wouldn't like him angry. Oh.....My.... God. The dunk, the jumper, the three, the block. G got angry and the game turned into a street fight.

4) Elliot Williams was beyond great. If you take away his silly backcourt fouls, he played a SPECTACULAR game. He scrapped, drove to the hoop, hit a three, didn't turn the ball over. Great game.

5) Singler looks a step slow and a bit less meaner, and he made a few uncharacteristic boneheaded plays. I hope he hasn't caught the slump bug from Scheyer and is just feeling a little under the weather. Great rebounding though.

6) I am a little concerned about the defense, but all in all, great ACC win in a tough environment against a team that was hitting some spectacular shots.

[geraldsneighbor]

I thought Heather Cox and Mike Patrick were an embarrassment tonight. Cox siting a message board for things that didn't happen, and bring up the pulling the fire alarm is an embarrassment. Then Patrick's reaction to the Smith injury was disgusting. How someone can get so excited over someone being injured is mind boggling.

Henderson got pissed though and went on a tear in the 2nd half and showed emotion like I had never seen. Paulus looked great as the off guard and Elliot gets to the basket quicker then anyone I have ever seen if I had never seen G play. Singler also had a gutty performance with a double double. Gutty win that 2 weeks ago we don't get. I'm really pleased.

[CBDUKE]

Great win. I have to comment on the Md. fans: they are the worst I have every seen. I don't even have the words to express what I am feeling about them at this time. Well, I have some, but I won't use them on this board.

[vb5678]

This win felt pretty good. I really liked the fact that after Nolan went down, G seemed REALLY pissed and made several spectacular plays for revenge. Solid play by Elliot, Lance and Dave did their thing, Kyle managed to contribute after a quiet first half.

I really hope Nolan's okay, though I don't think a concussion will be a season ending injuring right?

Also, I wonder what K said to Vasquez right after the game to make him laugh.

[superdave]

Dont forget to mention him in your prayers tonight, tomorrow and on until he comes back!

I really hope he's ok and rest will cure him.

[should_be_working]

Tough physical game, glad we came away with a win. This was a dangerous game that could have gone the other way. I kept waiting for various things to be thrown onto the floor from the terp fans, as the game was getting a bit chippy and the fans were roudy throughout showing a lack of class. I hope we can keep building on this win and put a nice streak together - one where we don't lose again for the rest of the year would be nice. ;)

[Coballs]

GREAT W, especially considering that Maryland was playing their best ball of the season coming in and played at a high level for 90% of this one. I just love it when Duke wins at College Park and silences those boorish Terp fans. It was an added bonus that Maryland was unable to bolster their tournament resume at our expense.


Huge week thus far Duke with another tough one coming up.

[OldSchool]

Speaking of health, I hope Nolan is OK. He's had a really rough few weeks. That screen was pretty much legal, but the forearm was kind of cheap.

Bilas kept going on and on about what a legal screen it was, but Neal did not hit Nolan with his chest. Neal gave a bit of extra oomph of forearm to the jaw. If you're going to T up Kyle for an inadvertant elbow to Hansbrough's jaw, I would think raising the forearm to Nolan's jaw would merit a foul.

Notice how in many arenas, when a player of either team appears seriously hurt and is lying motionless on the floor, there is a hush? Not in Maryland! Jubilant celebration.

[mgtr]

You could hear on TV pretty clearly what the Md fans were shouting with regard to Singler I can't believe that it would be allowed on national TV. Does the ACC have no standards for behavior and/or language? It is clear that ESPN doesn't.

[OldSchool]

Also, I wonder what K said to Vasquez right after the game to make him laugh.

I'll bet K was joking with Vasquez about his comment about Cameron being "Coach K's house" in his post-game interview after the UNC game.

[BlueintheFace]

Maryland Fans are TERRIBLE.

Cheering when Nolan was down

"F*** you Singler"

... it just leaves me speechless

[trey]

Great Win! The guys could have folded after Nolan's injury, when every shot MD threw up was going in, but they hung in there. The whole teamed contributed to this win. I love the way Elliot is playing right now.

[Sellers06]

Good tough road win. I loved the way the team (and of course G) played right after Nolan got hurt. I don't remember seeing that kind of anger get turned into playmaking in a while.

Also, I would be embarrassed to be a Maryland fan tonight. I think if I said any more on the issue, I'd likely not be welcome back on these boards anymore. Just disgusting.

[Saratoga2]

Without seeing any of the stats, it was clear that Maryland came to play and while we had energy in the first half, we also had trouble stopping penetration and scoring inside. We were lucky to hit some threes and be tied at the half. Coach K must have changed some things as penetration by Maryland was slowed down and posed very little threat. The injury to Nolan also seemed to energize the team and especially Henderson who was playing like a man possessed.

Henderson had a great game and Williams also played very well (15 points). Maryland concentrated their defense on stopping Scheyer, Singler and Henderson and they managed to cut down the scoring on two of those.

Paulus was used more than I expected and did fairly well offensively but was at a disadvantage defensively as he was unable to stop Hayes from shooting over him. The move to use him situationally on offense for his foul shooting and McClure on defense was also effective.

Scheyer was steady with only one turnover I noticed but didn't have his best shooting night. Williams actually ran the point for part of the game.

Plumlee came in but didn't seem to be able to match the game intensity and wound up sitting. Zoubek did better with a block and some rebounds. He does clog up the middle and makes free throws but is not good finishing around the basket.

Another great game winning away against a team that fought as hard as they could.

[Newton_14]

I think it's hard not to be completely pleased with this game. Sure, you can quibble here and there (esp. re: Kyle's game), but we came into a VERY hostile atmosphere and our guys -- most notably Elliott, who's emergence is nothing short of a revelation -- handled it beautifully. And we really played fantastic defense in the second half after getting abused in the lane in the first half. Everyone seems to know their role and is doing their part. I'm as pleased with this win as any win this season.

I could not agree more. That game was an absolute war right out of the gate and stayed that way until the twerps finally gave up the ghost with about 3 to go. Just an unreal level of intensity. Had our guys had any kind of lapse at all in the 2nd half they would have been in big time trouble. But they stayed focused the entire way.

Yet another solid performance from the rook. If Eliot can handle himself in that environment, he can play anywhere. Big time rebounds and scoring in traffic and he played with poise.

And finally, the defense reappeared down the stretch. Our boys are headed back in the right direction. Nice to see good minutes from Zoubs, Paulus, Miles, and Dave, and Nolan had a couple of good plays in his short time before getting rocked.

This is still a team to be reckoned with down the stretch.

Go Duke!

[ice-9]

- Poor defense again at defending the drive, but again adjusted later in the game

- Mad G is INSANE!!! Love it!

- Elliot got game - his scoring drives in particular were key and gave our offense another look

- Scheyer's only 3 in the game was HUGE. But it's another game where Scheyer shot poorly otherwise. I'm wondering if it's time to conclude that he's simply not a good shooter on the move. I'd like to see Scheyer limit his 3-point attempts to open, set shots like the one he hit

- I thought Zoubek made our offense multi-dimensional. Instead of trying to find an opening on the perimeter, we have someone to pass to in the post to create openings. I'd personally like to see Z play more minutes

- I'm definitely concerned with Nolan...it seems like his game has dropped off a lot. For us to get to the FF we'll need him

- Singler shot poorly from the the FT line. 3-6 ain't gonna cut it in the NCAA tourney!

[geraldsneighbor]

- Poor defense again at defending the drive, but again adjusted later in the game

- Mad G is INSANE!!! Love it!

- Elliot got game - his scoring drives in particular were key and gave our offense another look

- Scheyer's only 3 in the game was HUGE. But it's another game where Scheyer shot poorly otherwise. I'm wondering if it's time to conclude that he's simply not a good shooter on the move. I'd like to see Scheyer limit his 3-point attempts to open, set shots like the one he hit

- I thought Zoubek made our offense multi-dimensional. Instead of trying to find an opening on the perimeter, we have someone to pass to in the post to create openings. I'd personally like to see Z play more minutes

- I'm definitely concerned with Nolan...it seems like his game has dropped off a lot. For us to get to the FF we'll need him

- Singler shot poorly from the the FT line. 3-6 ain't gonna cut it in the NCAA tourney!

I think Kyle is taking a beating to get to the line. I'll say this though. He had 13 points on just 7 shots. If he is going to be that efficient and pull down 10 rebounds, it is hard to complain.

[jipops]

sarcastic Yawn.

So my phone rang after the game, caller id showed it to be a Maryland area code. Turned out to be the wrong number ofcourse.

You know Kyle Singler is an awful person for just standing there while that Maryland player steps on his foot. Sheesh, Kyle should be suspended right!!??

D really picked up in the 2nd half, didn't see nearly as much scoring on layups off the dribble as in the 1st - nice adjustment. The terps actually hung around while General Greivas was out in the 2nd, thought we might be doomed. Turned out we built a 6pt lead with him back in.

I'm extremely happy with the way we gutted this one out on the road against a squad with a lot of momentum. Hats off to the terp players and coach Gary, they're a tough bunch. Hat back on to some of those in the Comcast.

[jv001]

I've been waiting for Elliot to play like ordinary freshmen but I don't think it's going to happen. The pressure does not seem to bother him. By playing these last few really tough games, it should not bother him at all to play in the deandome. I hope he's saving the best for last. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but after playing at Comcast and at VT he should be battle tested. Go Duke!

[dukeblue1206]

Great win by the Devils. Elliot was great and got the player of the game on the radio show afterward. You can tell he is a Freshman and not use to doing interviews. He handled it well just needs to learn not to say "uh" so much between words. For some reason that is just a pet peeve of mine. I guess if he keeps playing like he is he can say "uh" more then Beavis and Butthead.

Maryland fans are the most classless in sports. Yelling the F U Singler chat was bad enough, then cheering when Nolan went down sent me over the edge. When G made that dunk afterward, I wanted to jump through the tv and give him a chest bump. And the funny thing is, the F U Singler chant was because I guess they thought he hurt Moseby on purpose when it was clear the kid just stepped on Singler's foot. Can you imagine what Coach K would do if the Crazies did that chant or cheered when someone was obviously seriously hurt? It is mind blowing to me. I turned to my fiancee when they were cheering while Nolan was down and said "I never thought I could dislike a group of fans more then the Tar Holes but after that I know I can".

[Jumbo]

Dear Maryland fans,
You made a mess, but don't worry, we've swept up after you.

Hugs and kisses,
Duke

[Kfanarmy]

was pretty efficient:

Z: 4 pts, 2 offensive rebounds and a block in 8 minutes
Paulus: 8 pts, 2 reb in 13 minutes, had a couple of fouls and a TO
Plumlee 1pt in 3 minutes 1 foul
Smith 5 pts in 4 minutes 2 fouls

[BlueintheFace]

2nd place is now ours alone to lose

[DukeCO2009]

- I thought Zoubek made our offense multi-dimensional. Instead of trying to find an opening on the perimeter, we have someone to pass to in the post to create openings. I'd personally like to see Z play more minutes


Can't agree with you here. Maryland is a really small team, and Zoubek sort of took advantage of that. I say sort of because a 7-footer going 4 and 4 against the Terps isn't all that impressive; on a relative scale, though, Z played decent basketball. As the last Maryland game showed us, we can't use the games Z plays against smaller teams as a barometer for his success. IMO, Z needs to get somewhere in between the minutes he got tonight and the minutes he got against Wake--he needs to see the court, but no more than Miles. If MP could just stop making silly fouls, he could be a very solid contributor.

That said, I agree with the rest of your post.

[jipops]

Dear Maryland fans,
You made a mess, but don't worry, we've swept up after you.

Hugs and kisses,
Duke

Feeling a little satisfaction this evening?

It is sad that a team as tough and gritty as the Terps have fans like these.

[Lord Ash]

Maryland fans are the most bitter, desperate, classless fans in basketball, and they get it from their coach. I wish them nothing but failure upon failure... although their program seems to already be there.

Good game by Duke. I am sure Nolan will recover from the concussion (the way he was holding his neck and head up when he hit the ground, and of course the nausea, scream concussion.) Elliot was really heady, especially around the basket, although I still get nervous when he handles the ball too much. Jon looked steady steady steady. Would love for Kyle to blow up a bit more. Zoubek got blocked by a guy six inches shorter than him, but despite that I think his height would have actually helped in the first when we were getting drived on so badly... Brian still has a role to play here.

And Gerald... WOW. He really is fantastic. He looked about as angry and driven as I've seen him tonight. Those fade-aways, the jump-stops, the dunks, the threes... I don't watch much NBA, but he feels very Kobe-esque to me with some of those smooth moves.

Anyway... good game. I like when we stick it to Maryland and the disgusting rioters they call "fans."

[jipops]

Not sure if this was posted, but K said in the post game that Nolan may have a minor concussion. He wasn't throwing up or anything which is good. He wasn't able to give anything definitive but sounds like there is nothing serious. Kind of a downer since his family was at the game to see him.

[Misunderestimated]

Great win in a tough environment.

I have been watching Duke play at UMD for as long as I can remember and I think tonight was the first night I actually felt embarrassed by the Terp fans. The reaction to Nolan's injury and the F-you chant really lowers the bar. I know the F-you chant is nothing new, but can the announcers prep for it so that there is not that awkward silence with no talking while we listen to them chant?

[Billy Dat]

In the 2nd half, when the Terps managed to knock down a couple of threes as the shot clock wound down, and then managed to get fouled right at the end of the clock, I thought it was going to be their night. But, we never allowed them to get "separation" in that half which really was important.

Quick aside - Patrick was really off his game tonight. Aside from miss-crediting several plays, he went a long while before letting us know that Vasquez has 4 fouls. First, I saw it on the screen and then it was never mentioned, and we never got replays to show the fouls. Considering that was a huge factor in the game, I think it was a huge miss. I love Bilas, but how many times are you going to say that G is playing with confidence? He said it at least 3 times.

The Elliot Williams phenomenon is truly mind boggling. It's not "Boozer breaks foot, Nate goes to bench, Duhon and Casey start and we start playing fast" but it feels sort of similar. For all you English majors, it sort of feels like a "deus ex machina" - in fiction writing, the phrase has been extended to refer to a sudden and unexpected resolution to a seemingly intractable problem in a plot-line (def. by Wikipedia).

[juise]

Feeling a little satisfaction this evening?

It is sad that a team as tough and gritty as the Terps have fans like these.

I know. I mean, they have such a well-mannered coach and a humble point guard who never makes ridiculous statements (though his post-UNC comments were somewhat redeeming).

[Jumbo]

You could hear on TV pretty clearly what the Md fans were shouting with regard to Singler I can't believe that it would be allowed on national TV. Does the ACC have no standards for behavior and/or language? It is clear that ESPN doesn't.

What, exactly, would you like ESPN to do? Not broadcast games at Maryland?

[FireOgilvie]

Can't agree with you here. Maryland is a really small team, and Zoubek sort of took advantage of that. I say sort of because a 7-footer going 4 and 4 against the Terps isn't all that impressive; on a relative scale, though, Z played decent basketball. As the last Maryland game showed us, we can't use the games Z plays against smaller teams as a barometer for his success. IMO, Z needs to get somewhere in between the minutes he got tonight and the minutes he got against Wake--he needs to see the court, but no more than Miles. If MP could just stop making silly fouls, he could be a very solid contributor.

That said, I agree with the rest of your post.

Zoubek had 4 pts, 4 rebounds in 8 minutes. That's on pace for a double-double if he plays a full half. Lance had 1 pt, 2 rebounds, and 4 fouls.... in 18 minutes. One of his worst games. Give Z some credit. He did a better job than anyone else out there tonight... even if it was against a small team. I definitely think we need to see more out of Plumlee as well. If he played the minutes Lance does he'd have twice the points and rebounds and we'd actually have someone that could block a shot out there. He needs to stop making so many dumb fouls; just back off Miles! He could be very effective.

[DukeFencer]

Anybody else watching in HD appreciate that super close-up of Gary in the interview right after the half? MAN can he sweat!

[snowdenscold]

For all you English majors, it sort of feels like a "deus ex machina" - in fiction writing, the phrase has been extended to refer to a sudden and unexpected resolution to a seemingly intractable problem in a plot-line (def. by Wikipedia).

I'm about as far to the opposite end of the spectrum as you can get from English major, and even I know what 'deux ex machina' means ;)

[Oriole Way]

I have a lot of thoughts about the game but my first impressions:

- Maryland fans suck. Bad.

- Gerald Henderson was amazing. I literally jumped up and yelled after his sick dunk, and then his block and recovery at the other end right after was awesome. Helped set the tone for the rest of the game.

- I love Elliot Williams and what he does for this team. He adds an ability to drive into the lane and score which the team desperately needed. His rebounding and size are also a welcome sight, and led to a couple of huge buckets for us tonight. I also like how Elliot loves driving to his left and Gerald loves driving to his right. It creates a dynamic balance for our offense.

- We finally shot 3's very well tonight, especially at the end of the game. Singler and Scheyer's made 3's in the final few minutes that were daggers. Henderson made multiple clutch 3's. Paulus even made two timely treys.

- I was happy to see two solid halves of basketball on the road from Duke. We stayed with Maryland even when they were on fire and making difficult, contested shots (that Hayes 3 with the shot clock running down epitomized the hot shooting night for MD up until that point). Our defense wasn't stellar, but MD simply played inspired and well. They seemed to hit all of their shots in the first half. Our defense did a nice job of cutting down their penetration in the second.

- I hope Nolan Smith is ok. I'm no doctor but it looked like he suffered a concussion. Hope he can come back in less than one or two weeks.

[DukeCO2009]

What, exactly, would you like ESPN to do? Not broadcast games at Maryland?

:rolleyes: I have to echo your sentiments. OK, so Maryland fans yet again proved classless with their in-game chants. They even *GASP* said the f-word. Oh golly gee willikers! We won. Let's enjoy it and not let the Maryland fans' idiocy get in our heads.

[micah75]

Why is it that Mike Patrick isn't shy about drawing attention to the Maryland fans when they don't like a call, yet he said nothing when those same fans were cheering while Nolan was down. I'm gittin' just a wee lil' bit tired of Patrick's shtick, "It looks like he got away with one there!!"

Anyhoo. I am truly impressed with Elliot Williams. I love it that he can rebound so well for someone at the 2 slot. Kudos to Coach K for making the needed adjustments wrt the starting lineup this late in the season.

Excellent road win.

[killerleft]

I must say I was taken aback by the callous "fans" who were cheering and jeering while Nolan lay on the floor in obvious pain.

I told my wife that we would not lose the game as soon as I saw the reaction of Gerald and the team after that amazing show of sportsmanship by a substantial number of our hosts. It feels so good that we beat them.

[geraldsneighbor]

I have a lot of thoughts about the game but my first impressions:

- Maryland fans suck. Bad.

- Gerald Henderson was amazing. I literally jumped up and yelled after his sick dunk, and then his block and recovery at the other end right after was awesome. Helped set the tone for the rest of the game.

- I love Elliot Williams and what he does for this team. He adds an ability to drive into the lane and score which the team desperately needed. His rebounding and size is also great, and led to a couple of huge buckets for us tonight. I also like how Elliot loves driving to his left and Gerald loves driving to his right. It creates a dynamic balance for our offense.

- We finally shot 3's very well tonight, especially at the end of the game. Singler and Scheyer's made 3's in the final few minutes that were daggers. Henderson made multiple clutch 3's. Paulus even made two timely treys.

- I was happy to see two solid halves of basketball on the road from Duke. We stayed with Maryland even when they were on fire and making difficult, contested shots (that Hayes 3 with the shot clock running down epitomized the hot shooting night for MD up until that point). Our defense wasn't stellar, but MD simply played inspired and well. They simply hit most of their shots in the first half. Our defense did a nice job of cutting down their penetration in the second.

- I hope Nolan Smith is ok. I'm no doctor but it looked like he suffered a concussion. Hope he can come back in less than one or two weeks.


Speaking of Greg...That was a sweet floor slap after he tied the game at 34. What a key play that was.

[Lord Ash]

Anybody else watching in HD appreciate that super close-up of Gary in the interview right after the half? MAN can he sweat!

AbsofrikingLUTELY. The guy was SOPPING wet. I think it is glandular.

[DukeCO2009]

Zoubek had 4 pts, 4 rebounds in 8 minutes. That's on pace for a double-double if he plays a full half. Lance had 1 pt, 2 rebounds, and 4 fouls.... in 18 minutes. One of his worst games. Give Z some credit. He did a better job than anyone else out there tonight... even if it was against a small team. I definitely think we need to see more out of Plumlee as well. If he played the minutes Lance does he'd have twice the points and rebounds and we'd actually have someone that could block a shot out there. He needs to stop making so many dumb fouls; just back off Miles! He could be very effective.

I agree with your assessment of the Miles situation re: his PT, but I don't think the majority of his burn should come at LT's expense. Given his recent performance, I'm confident that this was simply an aberration for Lance. I certainly don't mean to diminish Zoubek's play tonight, but given what we've all seen from him this season, I would hope that K exercises caution when he considers how much playing time Brian should receive this weekend.

[77devil]

What, exactly, would you like ESPN to do? Not broadcast games at Maryland?

Cut to commercial. Have the commentators embarrass the university on national TV by making note of the vulgar behavior. Have the commentators talk over the crowd noise during a timeout before cutting to commercial or turn down the mics. It's all pretty simple.

[4decadedukie]

A wonderful TEAM win, with tremendous contributions by virtually all our worthy, classy STUDENT ATHLETES (an accolade that cannot be applied to Maryland's Basketball program). G was the man-of-the match, but this does not denigrate the performance, tenacity, talent, and desire of MANY others. Kudos are also merited by Coach K and his staff, for continuous improvement, unremitting commitment to standards of excellence, pregame preparation, and in-game execution. In my opinion, this was a MAJOR, critical road win, in an adverse atmosphere, and it portends much for the post-season.

With regard to the Terps, Lord Ash succinctly summarizes my feelings:


Maryland fans are the most bitter, desperate, classless fans in basketball, and they get it from their coach. I wish them nothing but failure upon failure... although their program seems to already be there.

"Fear the classroom" and "A mind is a terrapin thing to waste" only provide "tip-of-the-iceberg" analysis of Maryland's program, Coach Williams' failures in his most important role, their brutish and declasse fans, their abject failure to embrace the critical concept of student athletes, and their inability to realistically assess the their program's abject deficiencies.

[godukerocks]

Speaking of Greg...That was a sweet floor slap after he tied the game at 34. What a key play that was.

That was great, and also the reaction of Wojo. After some vulgar chants at him, what does he do? He nails a 3, and slaps the M. Gotta love Greg.

[Jumbo]

Cut to commercial. Have the commentators embarrass the university on national TV by making note of the vulgar behavior. Have the commentators talk over the crowd noise during a timeout before cutting to commercial or turn down the mics. It's all pretty simple.

So when a player is hurt and most people are interested in what happened, you'd rather a TV network cut to a commercial to preserve your virgin ears than show a replay? Geez. If the Maryland fans want to embarrass themselves on national TV, that's on them. Asking ESPN to cut away from a game because of what they are chanting is absurd ... and not "simple" at all.

[BlueintheFace]

So when a player is hurt and most people are interested in what happened, you'd rather a TV network cut to a commercial to preserve your virgin ears than show a replay? Geez. If the Maryland fans want to embarrass themselves on national TV, that's on them. Asking ESPN to cut away from a game because of what they are chanting is absurd ... and not "simple" at all.

Yah, but I do think that commentators should call out student bodies when they use that word and maybe one or two others. Jay Bilas or whoever should just quickly say, "The Maryland fans are really embarrassing their team and the school right now, chanting this foul language. I hope the viewers at home cannot hear this."

[Kfanarmy]

A wonderful TEAM win, with tremendous contributions by virtually all our worthy, classy STUDENT ATHLETES (an accolade that cannot be applied to Maryland's Basketball program). .

While I won't disagree with the assessment of the fans, I thought the MD players played hard, didn't do anything untoward, and fought to the end...unfortunate for them that they are linked to that portion of their fan base that doesn't display sportsmanship. Their athletes didn't do anything, at least in this game, to deserve the criticism...or did I miss something?

[OldSchool]

Have the commentators embarrass the university on national TV by making note of the vulgar behavior.

This is what they should have done. It's almost cowardly of the commentators not too. They want to be loved by fans at every school, so they are extremely reluctant to call out a particular school for this kind of trash. It's the Vitale Syndrome. Perhaps if they embarassed the school on national television, maybe the administrators and coaches would be prodded into taking steps to cut out the garbage.

The Maryland fans do not deserve to have a program in a league as fine as the ACC. I say let's steal South Carolina and kick Maryland out. Maryland can join the MEAC and get kicked around by Morgan State every year.

[Kfanarmy]

Given what we've seen with EW, I'm gonna believe that MP will get there, playing time wise and everyone will say wow...I'm hoping/believing the coaches are working as hard in practice on him as they were on EW...so that when he does get more and more playing time, he'll not just be spelling someone, but be contributing big time to Ws.

[FireOgilvie]

Anyone else think the Scheyerface signs are absolutely hilarious? I laugh every time I see that.

[BlueintheFace]

Anyone else think the Scheyerface signs are absolutely hilarious? I laugh every time I see that.

they really are funny. I don't know why other fanbases think those signs are clever/effective... or maybe they don't. The guys on the team razz him about those faces. Everyone does. It's not like they are hitting a nerve.

[77devil]

So when a player is hurt and most people are interested in what happened, you'd rather a TV network cut to a commercial to preserve your virgin ears than show a replay? Geez. If the Maryland fans want to embarrass themselves on national TV, that's on them. Asking ESPN to cut away from a game because of what they are chanting is absurd ... and not "simple" at all.

Actually it is simple, definitely not absurd, and keep your incivility and lame attempt at an insult, "preserve your virgin ears" to yourself. I noted several other alternatives that you conveniently ignored. Furthermore, the chanting could be heard after the replay during 10 seconds of dead air. And finally, I am sure the parents of the young children who were watching appreciated the production values at that moment.

[JDev]

I am very proud of Duke tonight. That was a tough win in a physical game in a tough environment. G getting angry and responding to Nolan's injury is, to me, a great Duke moment. After doing it at home against a good Wake team, and then on the road at Maryland, Elliot has left no doubt about his importance and what he brings to the floor. That might be increasingly important if Nolan misses extended time. As someone else said, from the way he was acting it looked like a concussion. Have to wait until tomorrow to find out. Nolan was playing pretty well too. Paulus was also solid, which once again bodes well for missing Nolan. Great, great win.
I know it has been discussed ad naseum, but UM fans are the most embarrassing, classless bunch certainly in the ACC, maybe in the country. But, ultimately, who gives a d*** because Duke got the brooms out and swept that inferior team. Make as*** of yourselves on TV all you want, Duke will happily walk out with the W. I have a number to a hotel you can call: one in whatever city you will be playing your NIT game in.

[zingit]

So when a player is hurt and most people are interested in what happened, you'd rather a TV network cut to a commercial to preserve your virgin ears than show a replay? Geez. If the Maryland fans want to embarrass themselves on national TV, that's on them. Asking ESPN to cut away from a game because of what they are chanting is absurd ... and not "simple" at all.

I was wondering if ESPN runs any sort of tape delay or anything like that. I'm involved in radio, and I know we have a button we can push that "dumps" the last 7 seconds in case someone says a bad word. Broadcasting the f-word might be fine for ESPN because it's cable, but if this were a game on CBS or ABC, and if the profanity occurred before 10pm (when "safe harbor" hours kick in and FCC regulations are more lax), then they could get into legal trouble for it and be fined. FCC regulations can be hard to decipher at times, but I believe that's how it works (see Bono's f-bomb at the Golden Globes a few years ago). The Supreme Court will rule on this regulation this year, by the way. So it's not as trivial as you might think, at least for some stations.

I'm really happy about this win. I knew that this would be a tough game before, and I decided that I would be pretty much satisfied with any kind of win. No matter how close, all I wanted was a win. We got that. Our guys are tough! They are really making me feel like this year will be different from the past couple of years!

I hope Coach K can use the second half of this game to show the guys how to cut down on penetration. Does anyone know what adjustments we made that improved our defense for the second half? I'm no basketball expert; I couldn't tell what really changed.

[mgtr]

I think that ESPN should stand up and be counted. They could refuse to broadcast MD games (and let Raycom or Fox pick them up) or they could state that MD fans were so horrid that they would only broadcast the game exluding the sound. I truly believe that people have to stand up for they believe in, or just let the train run over them.

[geraldsneighbor]

I think that ESPN should stand up and be counted. They could refuse to broadcast MD games (and let Raycom or Fox pick them up) or they could state that MD fans were so horrid that they would only broadcast the game exluding the sound. I truly believe that people have to stand up for they believe in, or just let the train run over them.

All about money. ESPN will take Duke-MD 9 days a week if they could.

[DukeCO2009]

I think that ESPN should stand up and be counted. They could refuse to broadcast MD games (and let Raycom or Fox pick them up) or they could state that MD fans were so horrid that they would only broadcast the game exluding the sound. I truly believe that people have to stand up for they believe in, or just let the train run over them.

It's. Just. A. Word.

Can't we all just be content with Maryland fans embarrassing themselves and move on with our lives? Let's get off our high horses and stop pitching a collective fit. It's not our job as Duke fans to rid the world of profanity.

[4decadedukie]

While I won't disagree with the assessment of the fans, I thought the MD players played hard, didn't do anything untoward, and fought to the end...unfortunate for them that they are linked to that portion of their fan base that doesn't display sportsmanship. Their athletes didn't do anything, at least in this game, to deserve the criticism...or did I miss something?

Their "student athletes" have historically had the lowest graduation rates in NCAA Division I Men’s Basketball (for example, a ZERO percentage rate, documented by USA Today, a few years ago). My repeated references (this post and others) to this egregious academic performance record apply to the fundamental fact that all players, in all sports, at all colleges and universities are principally supposed to matriculate for long-term educational purposes. Obviously, most Terrapin Basketball players, their coaches and advisers, their athletic department and administration, and their student peers, and their fans, alumni and supporters eschew this critical matter.

With this said, I agree with your assessment of tonight's on-court play by Maryland's team (cheap shot to Nolan notwithstanding) -- and I never suggested otherwise. However, this does not address or resolve the crux of my foregoing, substantial criticism. I wonder if any of those guys have ever visited the UMd library?

[DukeCO2009]

With this said, I agree that your assessment of tonight's on-court play by Maryland's team (cheap shot to Nolan notwithstanding) is fundamentally correct -- and I never suggested otherwise. However, this does not address the crux of my foregoing, subsantial criticism. I wonder if any of those guys have ever visited the UMd library?

Didn't see anything wrong with the pick. The guy definitely wasn't trying to hurt Nolan; he was just bigger than him and established good position, and Nolan ran right into him.

[nyr484]

Maryland Fans are TERRIBLE.

Cheering when Nolan was down

"F*** you Singler"

... it just leaves me speechless

The cheering while Nolan was laying on the floor was absolutely classless. Someone who is more technologically savvy than I should put that clip on youtube. Start it just before they went to commercial when ESPN's cameras zoomed out and the fans are actually standing and cheering, and end it after the commercial break with the 1st play, G's monster dunk. They weren't so loud after that.

[OldSchool]

Didn't see anything wrong with the pick. The guy definitely wasn't trying to hurt Nolan; he was just bigger than him and established good position, and Nolan ran right into him.

Wrong. Instead of standing straight up, which would have been good position, and allowing the Maryland guard to lead Nolan into the screen, Neal leaned far forward and initiated the contact with Nolan, and then raised his forearm which struck Nolan in the jaw. Should have been called for the foul.

[4decadedukie]

Didn't see anything wrong with the pick. The guy definitely wasn't trying to hurt Nolan; he was just bigger than him and established good position, and Nolan ran right into him.

I have repeatedly seen (including many slow-motion replays) an unnecessary elbow/forearm shot; the pick was legitimate, but the post-pick "uppercut" was not (in my opinion).

[DukeCO2009]

I have repeatedly seen (including many slow-motion replays) an unnecessary elbow/forearm shot; the pick was legitimate, but the post-pick "uppercut" was not (in my opinion).

Eh, that's just part of basketball. Was it a little dirty? Sure, but he wasn't trying to hurt Nolan--just slow him down. It took a particular set of circumstances to put Nolan in the position he's in right now. Not saying the slightly-more-aggressive-than-normal screen wasn't a factor, but I'm confident that the guy wasn't trying to knock Nolan out. Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I just didn't see the dude going for the kill. I've played basketball since I was 5 or 6 years old, and over the years I've inavertently knocked many a player out of the game with a screen; I've been on the other end of an unintentional blow, too. It happens. Sucks when it's you/a player on your team, but it happens all the same. That said, I still hate Maryland.

[mgtr]

That pick looked pretty standard to me. We (Duke) have done it a bnch of tilmes. Duyke is guilty of not notifyiing Smith in the strongest terms that t was there. No fioul, lots of harm.

[OldSchool]

That pick looked pretty standard to me. We (Duke) have done it a bnch of tilmes. Duyke is guilty of not notifyiing Smith in the strongest terms that t was there. No fioul, lots of harm.

Watch it again. You can't lean into the man in order to rub him off. You have to let the guard lead him into you. I think if Maryland was playing on the road, Neal gets called for that.

[Jumbo]

Actually it is simple, definitely not absurd, and keep your incivility and lame attempt at an insult, "preserve your virgin ears" to yourself. I noted several other alternatives that you conveniently ignored. Furthermore, the chanting could be heard after the replay during 10 seconds of dead air. And finally, I am sure the parents of the young children who were watching appreciated the production values at that moment.

There's nothing uncivil about it. I reacted to the surprising vehemence in your post. It's a fair point to ask the announcers to try to talk over it. But let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they were getting some info from their director in their headsets at that moment. Maybe they were trying to figure out what to say. Maybe they weren't clear what was going on.
Either way, ESPN is a cable network. That language isn't outlawed. And there's only so much you can do when a group of jerks decides to act like a group of jerks. Just as easily as the announcers could have spoken, a parent could have muted the broadcast if he/she were that concerned about what the crowd was chanting.

[Jumbo]

I think that ESPN should stand up and be counted. They could refuse to broadcast MD games (and let Raycom or Fox pick them up) or they could state that MD fans were so horrid that they would only broadcast the game exluding the sound. I truly believe that people have to stand up for they believe in, or just let the train run over them.

Again, that's ridiculous. It's not ESPN's job to control Maryland's fans and -- as someone else pointed out -- it's just a word. Besides, if ESPN decided not to broadcast the game, we wouldn't have been able to watch. Would that have made you happy?

[4decadedukie]

Eh, that's just part of basketball. Was it a little dirty? Sure, but he wasn't trying to hurt Nolan--just slow him down. It took a particular set of circumstances to put Nolan in the position he's in right now. Not saying the slightly-more-aggressive-than-normal screen wasn't a factor, but I'm confident that the guy wasn't trying to knock Nolan out. Maybe I have too much faith in people, but I just didn't see the dude going for the kill. I've played basketball since I was 5 or 6 years old, and over the years I've inavertently knocked many a player out of the game with a screen. It happens. Sucks when it's you/a player on your team, but it happens all the same. That said, I still hate Maryland.

We'll simply have to "agree to disagree." In my opinion, it is NOT part of basketball, nor should it be. However, it certainly is frequent in today's often played "thug ball," but that is precisely what undermines the sport by threatening the long-term health and performance-potential of wonderfully talented student athletes with unnecessary "cheap shot" injuries.

[Jumbo]

The cheering while Nolan was laying on the floor was absolutely classless. Someone who is more technologically savvy than I should put that clip on youtube. Start it just before they went to commercial when ESPN's cameras zoomed out and the fans are actually standing and cheering, and end it after the commercial break with the 1st play, G's monster dunk. They weren't so loud after that.

I couldn't really tell if they were cheering the fact that Nolan was hurt, or that Neal had just nailed a big 3, followed by the injury timeout.

The pick was absolutely legal, btw.

[Jumbo]

Wrong. Instead of standing straight up, which would have been good position, and allowing the Maryland guard to lead Nolan into the screen, Neal leaned far forward and initiated the contact with Nolan, and then raised his forearm which struck Nolan in the jaw. Should have been called for the foul.

That happens on about 95 out of 100 picks, or 999 out of 1,000 picks Singler sets. No one communicated and Nolan got leveled. Neal didn't do anything wrong.

[Ian]

Excellent game. Loved the dominant play by G in the 2nd half. Loved the poise Elliot Williams showed in a very hostile environment.

Loved the fact that both Paulus and Smith (before the screen) seems to be adopting to their new roles. Particularly Smith who could blossom as a scorer now that he's freed to play on the wing.

Another very steady game for Jon at the PG. 5 assist and only 1 turnover. Another game we kept our turnovers to single digits.

[-bdbd]

Great win. I have to comment on the Md. fans: they are the worst I have every seen. I don't even have the words to express what I am feeling about them at this time. Well, I have some, but I won't use them on this board.

Just got back from College Park.... what a great win!
We had great seats with some friends in the Terrapin Club, three rows above the visiting team tunnel/entrance (sorta behind the MD bench). I went out of my way not to get noticed as a Duke fan (no Duke attire, no loud clapping or cheering, etc), and can offer some reasonably "incognito" thoughts....

Here are some quick impressions:

- Was honestly surprised at the good representation of numerous Duke-clad fans inside Comcast. Didn't expect to see so many scattered throughout the crowd. Fortunately, 'didn't see any fights or other such nastiness. For a stadium the size of old Reynolds, late on a weeknight, it was packed (I'm told the Duke game is easily the hardest to get tix for...much more so than vs UNC or UVA, etc.).

- Kyle really started slowly, and not with what appeared like a lot of defensive focus on him by MD. Will be interesting to see what they were saying on TV (I TIVO'd it). Gerald seemed to get a lot of begrudging compliments from fans (though also complaints about "he's getting away with 10 fouls for every one they call on him!"). They really don't like Paulus at all...

- Give the MD team credit, as they obviously didn't have the same caliber athletes/recruits, but with 4 minutes to go it was still anybody's game.

- MD fans really ARE boorish, as well as laughably un-self-aware. I have been to Duke BB games at MD now, plus UVA, NCSU, UNC, Ga Tech, Georgetown (well, that was at Verizon) and a few others. These were hands-down the most persistently vulgar and ridiculously one-sided in terms of screaming about the reffing.

- I absolutely EXPECT a home crowd to be unhappy with many of ref calls against their team, or in favor of the visitors. But we were surrounded by dozens of extremely loud and very frequently vulgar fans who NEVER (EVER!) saw a single foul, in the whole game, called against MD where they weren't SCREAMING bloody expletives at the refs about it. None. Not one. It really got funny. Trust me, the level of the silliness in this regard would absolutely make the Cameron Crowd blush in embarrasment if it went on there. (My host just shook his head when they were screaming about the ref needing glasses - or needing to call his bookie, or "Dukie Vitale" ... during the last few minutes AFTER THE FOULS HAD BECOME INTENTIONAL.) Just plain dopey.

- What you probably couldn't hear on TV while Smith laid prone on the floor were a number of yells for "Just GET UP!!" (followed with mumbles about being a "Duke faker..."). But the blood-thurst went to a higher level as they chanted together in large numbers, to see the replay (of Nolan being knocked out). Really.

- I was surprised a bit by the environment being more akin to what I've seen at pro games rather than most college ones, in terms of the loud "robo music" during (at least towards the end of) most timeouts in order to get the crowd going again, plus piped in crowd noise, plus several pro-style giveaways to get the crowd up on their feet/noisey (such as the huge sling-shot firing balled-up tee-shirts into the upper deck crowd), "fan of the game" jumbotron/ camera panning for the wierdest dancing fan, M&T Bankcard-type giveaways and flame-hoop tumbling gymnasts at half-time, etc.

- The big Scheyer-head open-mouth pictures - some probably 4 feet tall - were EVERYWHERE. I thought it was kinda funny actually. 'didn't seem to phase him at all.

- The vulgar Singler chant was the only coordinated vulgarity/chant that I heard, and it seemed more out of boredom during the injury timeout, than directed at anything he'd done.

- On the way out many fans were blaming the refs for "stealing" this one from them by "calling all of those bullsh** fouls on poor Grievis..."

- For the life of me I don't know how visiting teams can still hit 75% of free-throws, or get otherwise distracted as the noise level during most Duke possessions and freethrows, was really tremendous!

Those were just my impressions at my first Duke game in Comcast.

-BDBD :D

[OldSchool]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/WBHylton/LeaningPick.jpg?t=1235631326

That is NOT a proper screening position.

If you've watched many ACC games this season then you will have seen numerous calls for illegal screens. But then, the ACC is not the Big East.

[nyr484]

I couldn't really tell if they were cheering the fact that Nolan was hurt, or that Neal had just nailed a big 3, followed by the injury timeout.

The pick was absolutely legal, btw.

I agree the pick was legal. And they were probably cheering at first about the big 3. But after 10 seconds of Nolan laying on the court, they were still cheering, and when ESPN zoomed out, you can see people actually starting to stand and cheer at a clearly hurt Duke player. I've been in Cameron many times when an opposing player got hurt. No matter what else is going on in the game, it always gets quiet. And we always cheered FOR the injured player when they got up. I remember once actually chanting an opposing player's name in 2003 or 2004. Can't remember who it was...

I think this highlights a big difference between the two fanbases. At Duke, we recognize that this is a game. We want to win, but we don't want to see a young player injured. I dislike Maryland, but I don't harbor any dislike towards an individual player (unless perhaps they have done something dirty). At Maryland, they take it way too personally, and they actually HATE the individuals who wear a Duke uniform just for wearing a Duke uniform.

There's no doubt in my mind that the Maryland fans were HAPPY to see Nolan hurt. If you have any doubt about this, read a Maryland message board or check out the comments on the youtube clip of the hard screen and you can see some of the disgusting comments about Nolan. It's just sad, and I hope Nolan is ok.


What you probably couldn't hear while Smith laid prone on the floor were a number of yells for "Just GET UP!!" (followed with mumbles about being a "Duke faker..."). But the blood-thurst went to a higher level as they chanted in large numbers, to see the replay (of Nolan being knocked out). Really.
Edit: didn't see this before I started typing my post, but I think it proves the point.

[KandG]

Just got back from College Park.... what a great win!


- What you probably couldn't hear on TV while Smith laid prone on the floor were a number of yells for "Just GET UP!!" (followed with mumbles about being a "Duke faker..."). But the blood-thurst went to a higher level as they chanted together in large numbers, to see the replay (of Nolan being knocked out). Really.


Those were just my impressions at my first Duke game in Comcast.

-BDBD :D


Thanks for the first hand account! Watching the game on TV, it definitely sounded like the crowd was cheering Nolan getting decked. At first, I thought it was just excitement at a hard (if borderline legal) pick, and then the subsequent three. But it seemed to me the cheering continued while he was down -- there was none of the quiet concern for a hurt player you might see at other arenas, or any respectful cheering when Nolan got up.

Incredibly classless fans. The Maryland players gave a great effort, much more than their fans deserved.

[Oriole Way]

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/WBHylton/LeaningPick.jpg?t=1235631326

That is NOT a proper screening position.

If you've watched many ACC games this season then you will have seen numerous calls for illegal screens. But then, the ACC is not the Big East.

Wow. I actually thought it was a legal screen based on the replays, but that picture clearly shows that Neal was leaning forward. That forward lean essentially created a ledge of sorts for Nolan's head to collide into, and it directly caused his injury.

It's definitely an illegal screen.

[1Devil]

Nice writeup on the game by DBR as usual. Don't know why they went overboard in praise of Zoubek, though. For every positive, there was a negative. And the big thing is his negative plays, when they occur, tend to be real downers....as in negative momentum for the team.

[DukeFencer]

Anyone else think the Scheyerface signs are absolutely hilarious? I laugh every time I see that.

Agreed. If they need any help finding more variations, they should try to get their hands on a copy of the yearbook from 2007 - there was a page dedicated solely to his face, with 100+ thumbnail images.

[roywhite]

Great win; didn't post last night, but read through everything this morning...what a satisfying, tough victory.

Thanks to Old School for posting that image of the Neal pick. I thought at the time it could have been called as a foul on Neal, but, honestly, that's usually a no-call.

I esp. liked the observation (from Oriole Way, I believe) that we now have a really good slasher to the right (G) and a good slasher to the left (Elliot). Loved the plays where Elliot picked up loose balls around the basket and quickly put them in.

[Dukie4Life]

First off, has there been an update on Nolan Smith? I agree that it was a clean screen but you hate to see a guy go down like that. I haven't seen a screen set that "powerfully" since the 2001 Final Four game when Duke was playing Maryland and someone sent Chris Duhon flying into next month.

Second off, when is something going to be done about the Maryland fans and their outrageous unsportsmanlike conduct of the "F*** You (insert any Duke Players name here)" cheer. It gets tiresome to always have to hear ESPN turn up the volume on the announcers mic. I would like to think Gary Williams would take somesort of responsibilty and address the issue like Coach K has done in the past if he doesn't appreciate a cheer the Crazies are doing. But in all likelihood that will never happen.

Third it was great to see Vasquez struggle tonight since he absolutely tore UNC to pieces!

And finally... GO DUKE!

[davekay1971]

I couldn't really tell if they were cheering the fact that Nolan was hurt, or that Neal had just nailed a big 3, followed by the injury timeout.

The pick was absolutely legal, btw.

The volume of cheering rose dramatically when Nolan went down, way before the 3 went in. It was completely classless, just what I'd expect from Maryland fans. They reminded me of Philadelphia Eagles fans...another fanbase with an inferiority complex nearly the size of Jerry Jones's ego.

And yes, the pick was legal. No anger toward Neal...someone else from Duke (Bilas indicated Zoubek) should have called that out for Nolan.

[davekay1971]

Wow. I actually thought it was a legal screen based on the replays, but that picture clearly shows that Neal was leaning forward. That forward lean essentially created a ledge of sorts for Nolan's head to collide into, and it directly caused his injury.

It's definitely an illegal screen.

Hadn't seen that picture before I posted...but I wonder if you freeze frame many screens, will you see that lean? It just seems kind of natural to lean forward into the impact you see coming. If you're standing straight up when the person you're screening hits you, you'll probably get knocked backwards. For this screen, even at the time it was pretty clear that Neal put a little extra mustard into the screen...but I still wonder if most legal screens wouldn't look a little like this on a freeze-frame.

[gw67]

As a fan of both schools, I thought that it was a fun game to watch. Some random thoughts:

• The Devils did an outstanding job of keeping the Terps off the offensive boards and beating them to loose balls toward the end of the game.
• For all the rough play under the basket, I thought that the game was well officiated.
• I thought Bilas’s comparison of Henderson’s sudden emergence with Bias’ mid-season accent (I believe his junior year as well) was right on the money. Back in those days, a number of us wondered why Bias deferred to others when it was clear he had a bundle of talent.
• Henderson is NOT Kobe or Grant Hill but he does remind me of Vince Carter. Beautiful form on jump shot, gets off the ground, and has a soft touch.
• Maryland did a very nice job staying close to the Devils. Vasquez was not held down by the Duke defense. If he had stayed out of foul trouble he would have had very good stats (he played 22 minutes vice 35-37).
• The pick appeared to be legal to me based on several replays. Every starter on both teams would have fouled out if one were to use stop action on every play.
• The Terps depend on defense and going to the basket and getting fouled. They shot poorly from the foul line (for them) and the combination of the Devils’ three point shooting and loss of Vasquez was their ultimate undoing.
• I wasn’t at the game so I can’t comment on the crowd but 20 years ago the crowds were very civil at Cole. I suspect that the crowds at Comcast are like the posters at the Maryland sites – ignorant, boorish and mean spirited. I stopped going to Redskins games (several years after my wife stopped going) because many of the fans were all the above plus vulgar. This seems to have crept into College Park.


<References a deleted message.>

I noted above the ignorance, boorishness and mean spirited nature of some of the Maryland fans. Well this quote certaily fits that image to me but related to a Duke fan. I would not expect the above comments from anyone but an angry teenager much less a Duke fan posted on this site. I have lived in the area for nearly 50 years and I have known plenty of Maryland grads who are good folks and "have plenty of value" including a highly decorated Vietnam vet who I play golf with, the neurosurgeon who saved my life three years ago and my wife of 35 years. The DC area is full of people who feel entitled. This quote strikes me as made by someone who feels that way.

gw67

[Saratoga2]

Zoubek had 4 pts, 4 rebounds in 8 minutes. That's on pace for a double-double if he plays a full half. Lance had 1 pt, 2 rebounds, and 4 fouls.... in 18 minutes. One of his worst games. Give Z some credit. He did a better job than anyone else out there tonight... even if it was against a small team. I definitely think we need to see more out of Plumlee as well. If he played the minutes Lance does he'd have twice the points and rebounds and we'd actually have someone that could block a shot out there. He needs to stop making so many dumb fouls; just back off Miles! He could be very effective.

I was lookinf for around 10 minutes from Miles. What I saw was that he wasn't playing with the intensity needed in the game and of course he had the fouls. Zoubek does some things well but he could have made other plays and didn't. I am referring to being wide open at the top of the key and attempting a tough pass to Singler who had two men on him. Why not just pop, after all, he is a good foul shooter from that area. He also fumbled a pass thrown directly to him and missed from in close. First was blocked but the second was a chip. He doesn't look like more than a journeyman player.

[FerryFor50]

Nice writeup on the game by DBR as usual. Don't know why they went overboard in praise of Zoubek, though. For every positive, there was a negative. And the big thing is his negative plays, when they occur, tend to be real downers....as in negative momentum for the team.

Honestly, I can only think of 2 negative plays for Z:

1) Getting his shot blocked at the end of the 1st half
2) Missing a defensive assignment in trying to guard the top of the lane while his man was open for an easy lay in.

After that missed assignment, he camped out in the paint, as he should. He got strong rebounds, kept the ball high, hit his FTs, blocked a shot... very productive 8 minutes.

[FerryFor50]

The volume of cheering rose dramatically when Nolan went down, way before the 3 went in. It was completely classless, just what I'd expect from Maryland fans. They reminded me of Philadelphia Eagles fans...another fanbase with an inferiority complex nearly the size of Jerry Jones's ego.

And yes, the pick was legal. No anger toward Neal...someone else from Duke (Bilas indicated Zoubek) should have called that out for Nolan.

That was Z's man, but he's so slow that he has to get down court to get in position.

Besides, do you REALLY need a blindside pick 80 feet from the basket? Seriously?

[BlueDevilJay]

Does anyone know where I can find a good photo on the net of Hendo's monster one handed dunk right after Nolan's injury? I try to keep my desktop background here at work updated after each Duke victory, and I'd love to have that poster image for the MD fan working in the office here with me, who reiterated to me this morning just how bad he hates Paulus. Man I love beating Maryland.

[FerryFor50]

I was lookinf for around 10 minutes from Miles. What I saw was that he wasn't playing with the intensity needed in the game and of course he had the fouls. Zoubek does some things well but he could have made other plays and didn't. I am referring to being wide open at the top of the key and attempting a tough pass to Singler who had two men on him. Why not just pop, after all, he is a good foul shooter from that area. He also fumbled a pass thrown directly to him and missed from in close. First was blocked but the second was a chip. He doesn't look like more than a journeyman player.

Some games, Z is a better play than Miles. Some games, Miles should get more burn. Just depends on the matchups really. Z does really well against teams with little to no size inside, or other big slow dudes. Miles does better with athletic post men.

[FerryFor50]

Does anyone know where I can find a good photo on the net of Hendo's monster one handed dunk right after Nolan's injury? I try to keep my desktop background here at work updated after each Duke victory, and I'd love to have that poster image for the MD fan working in the office here with me, who reiterated to me this morning just how bad he hates Paulus. Man I love beating Maryland.


I still, for the life of me, can't figure out why the entire nation hates Greg Paulus.

I could see why they hated Laettner, Hurley, Wojo, etc. But Paulus? Is it because he actually shows emotion?

Most of the altercations he's in are a result of the other player taking cheap shots. Maybe he says stuff to them you can't hear.

[blueprofessor]

Wow. I actually thought it was a legal screen based on the replays, but that picture clearly shows that Neal was leaning forward. That forward lean essentially created a ledge of sorts for Nolan's head to collide into, and it directly caused his injury.

It's definitely an illegal screen.

Section 59
Article 2.In establishing and maintaining legal screening tactics, the screener shall:
a.Stay within his or her vertical plane with a stance no wider than ...and shall not lean into the path of an opponent...even though the feet are stationary.

http://www.ncaapublications.com/Uploads/PDF/Basketball_Rules_2008-09fb2fc956-7592-4877-993e-dae20a6f90ed.pdf

Best regards--Blueprofessor:)

[77devil]

There's nothing uncivil about it.

If you say so.


I reacted to the surprising vehemence in your post.

What vehemence? Go back and read the post. You asked another poster what ESPN should do. I listed four simple things.


It's a fair point to ask the announcers to try to talk over it. But let's give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe they were getting some info from their director in their headsets at that moment. Maybe they were trying to figure out what to say. Maybe they weren't clear what was going on.

By omission I presume that I should I conclude that the other options I gave for what ESPN could do are not fair points in your opinion.


Either way, ESPN is a cable network. That language isn't outlawed. And there's only so much you can do when a group of jerks decides to act like a group of jerks. Just as easily as the announcers could have spoken, a parent could have muted the broadcast if he/she were that concerned about what the crowd was chanting.

I never wrote nor suggested that the language was outlawed, however, even a cable network, I would submit has a public interest to do more than ESPN did which was nothing.

[mgtr]

Again, that's ridiculous. It's not ESPN's job to control Maryland's fans and -- as someone else pointed out -- it's just a word. Besides, if ESPN decided not to broadcast the game, we wouldn't have been able to watch. Would that have made you happy?

Well, I think your point is ridiculous. ESPN is absolutely responsible for what goes out over their network. And you ignored the balance of my post, where I said that Raycom or Fox would pick up the game, so we would have been able to watch.

[Kfanarmy]

may I suggest moving to PM?

[FerryFor50]

may I suggest moving to PM?

But where's the fun in that?

:breaks out popcorn: :p

[dukeENG2003]

It's. Just. A. Word.

Can't we all just be content with Maryland fans embarrassing themselves and move on with our lives? Let's get off our high horses and stop pitching a collective fit. It's not our job as Duke fans to rid the world of profanity.

+1, Cameron Crazies chant a profanity every game.

"We're gonna win tonight, Carolina go to hell EAT S@#$" occurs at every single game.

The part that I didn't really care for is that they were chanting "F*@# you Singler" as if it was Singler who had hurt the Maryland player on purpose. The dude stepped on Singlers stationary foot. That along with their constant complaining about every call reflected VERY poorly on them as a fanbase.

My favorite moment of the game was when one of the cheerleaders on the Duke endline actually GOT UP from her seated position to yell at the ref when Kyle very clearly got fouled on a drive. CLASSIC.

[pamtar]

A couple of thoughts.

- Grievous Vasquez is a baller. I think at the handshake Coach K said something along the lies of "I respect your game more than any other opposing player in this league." Yes, he has made some dumb choices but look at his coach. Not much guidance there I assume. Though he had a bad game last night he was still impressive to me. He finished with 10 points, 5 assists, and 6 rebounds - in 22 minutes. Its easy to hate him because of his associates but GV is everything you could ask for in a ball player; skill wise and heart wise.

- Elliot Williams doesn't remember the past 3 years of Duke basketball. This is a good thing. Ignorance is bliss. He is learning winning and simultaneously he is helping it happen. He had more confidence in his game last night than he has had all year. I cant wait to see whats next.

[Saratoga2]

In the pregame thread I posted my expectation for the lineup and PT for the game. Based on the actual times played, I believe you can have another way of looking at the mindset of coach K as the game progressed and understand where we are headed going forward.


Player Predicted PT Actual PT Reasons?
Henderson 35 37 played to form
Scheyer 38 37 played to form
Singler 35 37 played to form
Thomas 28 18 outplayed inside
Williams 30 31 impressive again

Smith 10 4 injured
McClure 12 12 played to form
Plumee 8 3 fouls & intensity?
Paulus 2 13 shooting & situation
Zoubek 2 8 journeyman

With Thomas having difficulty inside and Smith injured , more time fell to the remaining subs. Paulus did his job on offense well although he lacks the physical capability of playing lockdown defense. Plumee was a little disappointing and Zoubek did some things well but still is not going to standout.

Going forward to Virginia Tech, I see the original predictions as being reasonable except that Thomas may have his PT closer to 20 minutes and Smith should be back to pick up at least 10 minutes. That will leave an opportunity for either Plumlee or Zoubek to play in the 10 minute range. I am hoping that Plumlee can rachet up his intensity while also avoiding the cheap fouls.

[FerryFor50]

A couple of thoughts.

- Grievous Vasquez is a baller. I think at the handshake Coach K said something along the lies of "I respect your game more than any other opposing player in this league." Yes, he has made some dumb choices but look at his coach. Not much guidance there I assume. Though he had a bad game last night he was still impressive to me. He finished with 10 points, 5 assists, and 6 rebounds - in 22 minutes. Its easy to hate him because of his associates but GV is everything you could ask for in a ball player; skill wise and heart wise.

- Elliot Williams doesn't remember the past 3 years of Duke basketball. This is a good thing. Ignorance is bliss. He is learning winning and simultaneously he is helping it happen. He had more confidence in his game last night than he has had all year. I cant wait to see whats next.

I really, really want to hate Vazquez. But I can't. He's just too good. He plays with passion. And he shows respect to his opponents. I could do without the constant grousing after calls, but overall, the kid can play. Would love to have seen him in a Duke uni.

[arnie]

I've become really fatiqued with the whole act from Maryland fans and administration - I think they and VPI fit better within the Big East - wish we could trade them both for Georgetown (with a Div 1 football program) and Syracuse. But it's not gonna happen in my lifetime.

On a more positive note, EW's rebounds and put back shots down the stretch were huge - and his level of play makes us a much better team. I think we'll no make the 2nd weekend of the tourney - beyond that is anybody's guess.

[yancem]

We'll simply have to "agree to disagree." In my opinion, it is NOT part of basketball, nor should it be. However, it certainly is frequent in today's often played "thug ball," but that is precisely what undermines the sport by threatening the long-term health and performance-potential of wonderfully talented student athletes with unnecessary "cheap shot" injuries.

I don't know, Neal's pick looked like a standard issue Danny Ferry pick circa 1989. The slight lean forward is fairly necessary unless you want to be knocked on your but as well. The only real difference was that Ferry held is hands down to protect the groin area (not sure why someone wouldn't do this). So if Ferry had set the pick it would have been his bicep that would have impacted Nolan instead of the elbow. Granted that might have made a big difference and I will admit that it appeared that Neal raised his arm slightly but you have to remember that we was about to be run into by a not insignificantly sized man; bracing for impact is a natural reaction.

[DankeShane]

To me there is no sweeter sound in all of sports then hearing the Maryland crowd shout "AWWWWRRRRAAHH" during a basketball game with Duke. That sound always means someone on their team just got pwned and it brings a grin to my face thinking about how those uninformed neanderthals are blaming the refs for their complete and utter failures.

[Indoor66]

I contend that Larry David, Scott Van Pelt, and Tiffany Taylor are persons of "value" to come out of Maryland. At least, for me they are.

And who could forget Norman Chad?

[BD80]

I really, really want to hate Vazquez. But I can't. ...

Hate Vazquez at least for wearing too much rouge. Or for his "I'm about to cry" face.

ESPN cut away while Nolan was still on the floor. How did the crowd react? Most crowds would offer polite applause. How bad were Md fans?

I thought Neal was still moving (he shifted to get in front of Nolan) when he set the pick, the still photo shows his right foot off the floor indicating his motion. Still, it wasn't illegal. It just wasn't clean.

Zoubek should have called the pick out. It was like a QB floating a pass over the middle. I don't think Brian got back into the game after that.

[camion]

I see this game as the counter-example to the Clemson game where we had the deer-in-headlights look. I thought we played 40 solid minutes last night and I'm not talking Xs and Os. I talking about competing. Maryland came into this game sky high and if we hadn't matched their intensity they could have had us out of it by half-time.

Good game.

Next up is Va Tech and we'll have do do the same thing to get a win.

[Kim*]

I still, for the life of me, can't figure out why the entire nation hates Greg Paulus.

I could see why they hated Laettner, Hurley, Wojo, etc. But Paulus? Is it because he actually shows emotion?

Most of the altercations he's in are a result of the other player taking cheap shots. Maybe he says stuff to them you can't hear.
He's just an easy target. By now all ACC fans know that he plays off of emotion (both positive and negative), so they try to get in his head. And 85% of the time they succeed. But there's nothing better than when he's able to drain threes and shut them all up.

[Lord Ash]

I don't know, Neal's pick looked like a standard issue Danny Ferry pick circa 1989. The slight lean forward is fairly necessary unless you want to be knocked on your but as well. The only real difference was that Ferry held is hands down to protect the groin area (not sure why someone wouldn't do this). So if Ferry had set the pick it would have been his bicep that would have impacted Nolan instead of the elbow. Granted that might have made a big difference and I will admit that it appeared that Neal raised his arm slightly but you have to remember that we was about to be run into by a not insignificantly sized man; bracing for impact is a natural reaction.

My first thought? "He doesn't need to protect himself because he knows he is leaning forward and will take all the impact with his upper body and arms, and no impact in his lower body."

Even this morning I am still shaking my head over the Maryland fans. I actually really like Vasquez... I think he is emotional and runs his mouth, but I think he has a love of the game and a love of competition... you know he loves Cameron because it mirrors that passion. But the fans? Ugh. They booed Vasquez earlier this year. What scum.

Oh, and Jumbo did make an excellent point:

Larry frikking David

Although I have to admit, when I learned that I almost couldn't watch "Curb" for a few days.

Almost.

Oh, and Jumbo's sig actually mentions the other great product of Maryland.

[allenmurray]

Hate Vazquez at least for wearing too much rouge.

You sound like a terp.

Vasquez has a skin condition - he doesn't wear rouge. Hating someone for a medical condition beyond his control (even bringing it up at all) sounds more like something a Terp would say then something a Duke fan would say.

[Lord Ash]

You sound like a terp.

Vasquez has a skin condition - he doesn't wear rouge. Hating someone for a medical condition beyond his control (even bringing it up at all) sounds more like something a Terp would say then something a Duke fan would say.

Heh. I giggled a little.

I wouldn't take it that far... if it were anything serious (or indeed if anyone actually knew what it was in the first place) no one would poke fun at it, but I don't think this is going over any line.

[Kim*]

My first thought? "He doesn't need to protect himself because he knows he is leaning forward and will take all the impact with his upper body and arms, and no impact in his lower body."

Even this morning I am still shaking my head over the Maryland fans. I actually really like Vasquez... I think he is emotional and runs his mouth, but I think he has a love of the game and a love of competition... you know he loves Cameron because it mirrors that passion. But the fans? Ugh. They booed Vasquez earlier this year. What scum.

Oh, and Jumbo did make an excellent point:

Larry frikking David

Although I have to admit, when I learned that I almost couldn't watch "Curb" for a few days.

Almost.

Oh, and Jumbo's sig actually mentions the other great product of Maryland.

Wait, wait.. the Maryland fans booed their own player? :eek: When/Why did this happen?

[allenmurray]

What, exactly, would you like ESPN to do? Not broadcast games at Maryland?

The technical solution is pretty simple, particularly for a network with the resources of ESPN. Whoever is doing the soundmix alwasy has the opportunity to choose the ratio crowd/background sound compared to the level of sound that comes from the announcers mics (and to ESPN's credit, they ususlly do a good job of this). They were simply unprepared last night. It was a human error - the technological fix is actually pretty simple.

[BD80]

You sound like a terp.

Now you are just getting nasty.


Vasquez has a skin condition - he doesn't wear rouge. Hating someone for a medical condition beyond his control (even bringing it up at all) sounds more like something a Terp would say then something a Duke fan would say.

Where were you when we were touting Mike O'Koren for All-ACC Ugly???

Getting snarky with other Duke fans is one of the reasons this board has lost its luster. I didn't say anything negative about Duke or about any other poster. If I did not live up to your standard of Duke fandom - oh well. I'll bet most Dukies don't.

But to say I sound like a terp??? If I had feelings, they would be deeply, deeply wounded right now.

[1Devil]

Honestly, I can only think of 2 negative plays for Z:

1) Getting his shot blocked at the end of the 1st half
2) Missing a defensive assignment in trying to guard the top of the lane while his man was open for an easy lay in.

After that missed assignment, he camped out in the paint, as he should. He got strong rebounds, kept the ball high, hit his FTs, blocked a shot... very productive 8 minutes.

I also recall Kyle, heading out of bounds, passing the ball to Zoubek and the ball just bounced off his hands out of bounds. The clueless announcers said that Kyle threw it away. But the ball went right off Zoubek's hands.

But the plays that just kill me are those like his lame blocked shot at the end of the half. This is because they are plays where we should score, but don't. Oh, and we can only play zone when he's in. Anything else is a disaster. Even Neal abused him.

[FerryFor50]

I also recall Kyle, heading out of bounds, passing the ball to Zoubek and the ball just bounced off his hands out of bounds. The clueless announcers said that Kyle threw it away. But the ball went right off Zoubek's hands.

But the plays that just kill me are those like his lame blocked shot at the end of the half. This is because they are plays where we should score, but don't. Oh, and we can only play zone when he's in. Anything else is a disaster. Even Neal abused him.

I can't agree that not catching that pass was Z's fault. Singler drove baseline on a double team and got himself caught in a bad spot. Then he rocketed the pass to Z. That's a tough catch for anyone to make.

[KandG]

Besides, do you REALLY need a blindside pick 80 feet from the basket? Seriously?

Picks/Screens are set all the time in the backcourt to free point guards from the kind of pressure that Duke applies...nothing remotely uncommon about it. It was just poor communication by Zoubek not to let Nolan know about Neal.

[roywhite]

I also recall Kyle, heading out of bounds, passing the ball to Zoubek and the ball just bounced off his hands out of bounds. The clueless announcers said that Kyle threw it away. But the ball went right off Zoubek's hands.

But the plays that just kill me are those like his lame blocked shot at the end of the half. This is because they are plays where we should score, but don't.

Unfortunately, on that play at the end of the first half, Zoubs also missed the put-back, which I believe would have just beat the buzzer.

Oh well...expectations are pretty low for him at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him have some key minutes and plays in the ACC and NCAA tournaments. Help sometimes comes from unexpected sources there.

Realistically, I'm just hoping that the Lance/Plumlee combination can get a little more consistent and productive.

[SMO]

Speaking of health, I hope Nolan is OK. He's had a really rough few weeks. That screen was pretty much legal, but the forearm was kind of cheap.

The lean in and forearm were a little chippy, but what really irritated me was the smirk on Neal's face in the huddle. Combine that with Bowie's trash talk and this was a very satisfying win. :D

[feldspar]

I'm furious about the screen. So furious that I'm breaking my vow of silence.

I'm furious about people like Jay Bilas insisting that screen was legal without producing a shred of rules knowledge to back up his so-called assessment.

I'm furious that Nolan Smith likely suffered a concussion on a play that too many people are saying was "clean."

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:


1. Illegal action by the screener:
a. Causes contact by setting a screen that does not allow a stationary
opponent a step for normal movement.
b. Makes contact while moving or sliding in an attempt to set the
screen.
c. Causes contact because of a stance established outside of his vertical
plane (feet no wider than shoulder width apart).
d. Makes contact by leaning into the opponent’s path or by extending
the hip, shoulder or knee into that path even though the feet are
stationary.
e. Causes contact with the illegal use of hand(s), arm(s), leg(s) or body
that pushes or holds on opponent from his desired path around the
screen.

Not only are these rules clearly laid out, they are a point of emphasis for this year.

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

I'm so tired of announcers proclaiming 100% certainty on calls like this as if they are the final authority. It only creates an environment where plays like this, in the future, become standard and it becomes okay to set an illegal screen and give a guy a concussion.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

[SlimSlowSlider]

Great win.

I did not record the game, but if anyone has, I would like them to review a play at about 15:05-15:10 in the second half. MD player passes the ball upcourt to another MD player, who has to jump to catch it. He is sort of falling towards the baseline, and is able to pass it back (toward midcourt). It looked to me like he took a TON of steps, but no travel was called. I don't really care about the non-call, as there are many in every game. But it seemed so obvious to me that I immediately thought of the youtube video of EWill traveling. If my eyes were not deceiving me (and they might have, I was not watching in HD!), I bet you could make a similar video to the EWill video. What does this mean? Not much, other than we could probably make an "I cannot believe they did not call that" video every game.

[FerryFor50]

I'm furious about the screen. So furious that I'm breaking my vow of silence.

I'm furious about people like Jay Bilas insisting that screen was legal without producing a shred of rules knowledge to back up his so-called assessment.

I'm furious that Nolan Smith likely suffered a concussion on a play that too many people are saying was "clean."

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:



Not only are these rules clearly laid out, they are a point of emphasis for this year.

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

I'm so tired of announcers proclaiming 100% certainty on calls like this as if they are the final authority. It only creates an environment where plays like this, in the future, become standard and it becomes okay to set an illegal screen and give a guy a concussion.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

Completely agree.

If it were a legal, set screen, I'd be able to swallow the results a little better. But Neal was clearly moving and leaning in.

I'm not sure why it's even up for debate.

[allenmurray]

Now you are just getting nasty.

Getting snarky with other Duke fans is one of the reasons this board has lost its luster.

I just like to see Duke fans act better than Maryland fans. Stooping to thier level lacks humor, class, and civility. What you see as snarky I see as posters trying to stop this from becomng IC or Terptown. The quickest way for this board to really lose its luster isn't for Duke fans to refrain from calling each other out from time to time, but for those duke fans who post here to start doing the very things that posters we criticize on other boards do.


I didn't say anything negative about Duke or about any other poster.

Which is no different than many fan boards. What makes this BB different is we usually try to go a step above that and show a respect to other deserving teams as well. As horrid as the Maryland fans were last night, the Maryland players acquited themselves very well (the Neal pick aside). They played with a lot of heart and class and it was never a dirty game.



If I did not live up to your standard of Duke fandom - oh well. I'll bet most Dukies don't.

Actually, most others do. Your was the only post in the entire thread to make fun of the physical appearance (actually medical condition) of a player that many other posters commented on their respect for. Yours wasn't similar to other posts, it was different from other posts.

[FerryFor50]

Great win.

I did not record the game, but if anyone has, I would like them to review a play at about 15:05-15:10 in the second half. MD player passes the ball upcourt to another MD player, who has to jump to catch it. He is sort of falling towards the baseline, and is able to pass it back (toward midcourt). It looked to me like he took a TON of steps, but no travel was called. I don't really care about the non-call, as there are many in every game. But it seemed so obvious to me that I immediately thought of the youtube video of EWill traveling. If my eyes were not deceiving me (and they might have, I was not watching in HD!), I bet you could make a similar video to the EWill video. What does this mean? Not much, other than we could probably make an "I cannot believe they did not call that" video every game.

I think it was definitely a walk. The only reason I can think of that they didn't call it was because he was not in control of the ball. But a walk is a walk, and that one was pretty darn obvious.

[BD80]

... review a play at about 15:05-15:10 in the second half. MD player passes the ball upcourt to another MD player, who has to jump to catch it. He is sort of falling towards the baseline, and is able to pass it back (toward midcourt). It looked to me like he took a TON of steps, but no travel was called. ...

I remember that play. I woke up the dog screaming at that one. I replayed it in slow motion and even my son (who thinks I take these things FAR too seriously) couldn't believe it wasn't called.

[geraldsneighbor]

Completely agree.

If it were a legal, set screen, I'd be able to swallow the results a little better. But Neal was clearly moving and leaning in.

I'm not sure why it's even up for debate.

The point of emphasis at least with Bilas has been to watch elbows. Hopefully Nolan is okay. I don't think Singler sets to many picks 80 feet from the hoop though.

[JDev]

But the plays that just kill me are those like his lame blocked shot at the end of the half. This is because they are plays where we should score, but don't.

The block didn't really bother me, the UM guy elevated and made a good play. What was bothersome to me was that Z got the ball right back and missed a point-blank uncontested lay-up just before the horn. It would have given Duke a halftime lead and a smidgen more momentum. It wasn't catostrophic however, and Z was a solid contributer, albeit in limited minutes.

[geraldsneighbor]

I remember that play. I woke up the dog screaming at that one. I replayed it in slow motion and even my son (who thinks I take these things FAR too seriously) couldn't believe it wasn't called.

He literally took 8 or 9 steps. I'm not even joking. I guess they ruled he never had possession. Not that Patrick or Bilas mentioned it.

[merry]

It's. Just. A. Word.

Can't we all just be content with Maryland fans embarrassing themselves and move on with our lives? Let's get off our high horses and stop pitching a collective fit. It's not our job as Duke fans to rid the world of profanity.

LOL! Thank you! Are people really surprised there was profanity on display at this game?

I can understand why people might be touchy about this. After all people read Coach K's lips in the huddle and write 20 sanctimonious letters to the editor at the first sign of the F word, but no one cares that opposing fans direct an abusive and vulgar chant at a player. This used to upset me too but it's been this way for years now and I decided that my worrying and whining was a waste of my time.

Hey, we won, and we looked pretty good doing it for the most part. Let other people make fools of themselves whining about the refs and trying to justify why they "hate Duke". They are losers.

[BlueintheFace]

Actually, most others do. Your was the only post in the entire thread to make fun of the physical appearance (actually medical condition) of a player that many other posters commented on their respect for. Yours wasn't similar to other posts, it was different from other posts.

What medical condition? If it is something serious, then I would feel a little bad for laughing, but it looks like acne to me...

[FerryFor50]

What medical condition? If it is something serious, then I would feel a little bad for laughing, but it looks like acne to me...

I think, technically, acne is a medical condition.

But the phrase "medical condition" does make it seem more serious than that...

[MChambers]

I also recall Kyle, heading out of bounds, passing the ball to Zoubek and the ball just bounced off his hands out of bounds. The clueless announcers said that Kyle threw it away. But the ball went right off Zoubek's hands.

But the plays that just kill me are those like his lame blocked shot at the end of the half. This is because they are plays where we should score, but don't. Oh, and we can only play zone when he's in. Anything else is a disaster. Even Neal abused him.

I agree that Brian isn't often pretty out there, but he's effective, or at least the plus/minus numbers strongly suggest he is. Let's appreciate him for what he is and not bemoan the fact that he's not a great athlete. He makes the team better.

[Jumbo]

may I suggest moving to PM?

Concur, and thanks.

[JDev]

Great win.

I did not record the game, but if anyone has, I would like them to review a play at about 15:05-15:10 in the second half. MD player passes the ball upcourt to another MD player, who has to jump to catch it. He is sort of falling towards the baseline, and is able to pass it back (toward midcourt). It looked to me like he took a TON of steps, but no travel was called. I don't really care about the non-call, as there are many in every game. But it seemed so obvious to me that I immediately thought of the youtube video of EWill traveling. If my eyes were not deceiving me (and they might have, I was not watching in HD!), I bet you could make a similar video to the EWill video. What does this mean? Not much, other than we could probably make an "I cannot believe they did not call that" video every game.

My wife even said "My God that is a huge walk," and she was only half watching. I don't think the officiating was particularly good last night (and to my recollection I have never complained about officials on any board). I don't think the officiating was horrendous by any means, I just think there were several things that seemed obvious that were missed, this walk being one. Another, in my opinion, was the screen, and I know some disagree (namely Bilas). As feldspar pointed out, there were some very clear violations of the rules. He was not stationary and he definitely unnecessarily stepped into the contact.
I want to again say that overall, the officiating wasn't horrible, just some obvious calls missed. I wanted to reiterate that because I hate to be a guy that complains about officials. The missed calls (luckily) had no ultimate bearing on the final outcome.

[BD80]

I just like to see Duke fans act better than Maryland fans. Stooping to thier level lacks humor, class, and civility. ...

... Your was the only post in the entire thread to make fun of the physical appearance (actually medical condition) of a player that many other posters commented on their respect for. Yours wasn't similar to other posts, it was different from other posts.

As opposed to the recent post in the Pete Gillen thread:


And he had a heart as big as his head. Well, actually there are few tings in nature as big as head

I can clearly see your post was intended to be humorous. Wouldn't it suck to have someone harp at you for such intended humor?

Go ahead sheriff, clean up these boards.

[blazindw]

Last night was a tough game, but I'm glad that we pulled it out in front of a completely hostile crowd. My friends and I didn't have seats as good as BDBD, but we still saw pretty much everything. We were at the top of the endzone opposite The Wall, in the last row literally right underneath the Duke score on the scoreboard. Some thoughts:

1. The Maryland fans that were around us didn't really bother us that much, and my two friends and I were clapping and cheering for every Duke play that went our way.

2. When we saw all the Scheyer posters, we definitely laughed. My friend was like "Really? Scheyer? That's who they've decided to pick on? Eh, okay." We really didn't think that would affect him, and judging from his play, we were right.

3. When the MD player went down early in the 1st half, Email made the shot right before they blew the whistle, and we shut up. No cheering, very quiet, as everyone should do...then came the Singler chant. The Singler chant was calculated...I had read on a message board that was one of their main cheers they wanted to do, but were waiting for the right time to do it. This really made us angry. They were doing this DURING the timeout when their man was on the ground.

4. When Nolan went down, yes, they cheered the 3, which was fine. But then, they noticed that Nolan was knocked out, and they cheered even louder. They then started chanting, which we couldn't make out (thank you BDBD for clarifying what was being said). Then, they cheered the replay. At this point, we are furious. To be fair, many of the fans clapped when Nolan was helped off the court, but not the students. They kept on cheering like it was a good thing Nolan got hurt. The students and most of the fans MD has are the epitome of classlessness.

5. Every single call that went against MD had the reaction of sentencing an innocent man to the electric chair. It was like there was no possible way on earth that any single call could ever go against a MD player. During the first TV timeout of the 2nd half, the guys in front of us were talking about how Coach K and the officials must have had a meeting during halftime where he paid them off (as well as other things that aren't appropriate for this board). Nevermind that halfway through the 2nd half, we had more team fouls than they did, 6-4.

6. Henderson = P.O.Y. That dunk after Nolan's injury was spectacular, as if he was given instructions during the timeout to shut those people up. Boy, did he. He was a MD killer the whole second half

7. Email! Email! Email! The kid has confidence, he has game, he has developed toughness. My friend pointed out this morning that last night, at the end, he went up strong, got an offensive board, and put it back up strong for the lay-in. This is something I think we were missing for a lot of the year, and Email has really stepped his game up and brought that edge to our starting lineup.

8. I hope Nolan's okay. He had a tough outing before the injury, but his health is all I'm concerned about. Our seats were behind the pick, so from our angle it looked as if it was clean. It occurred right in front of our bench and so it should be their responsibility at that point to call out the pick so Nolan knows about it. No one's to blame, however, it happens in bball all the time, so I hope Nolan's back on the floor soon.

9. Scheyer, Paulus and Singler all performed pretty well in my mind. They made baskets down the stretch when they needed to. When Scheyer shot the 3 that essentially sealed it, that's when our biggest yell came out. We knew that was the killer, and soon after, people were streaming for the exits.

Finally, my two friends and I that ventured to the game last night are 3-0 in Duke games that we attend together: Clemson last year and both Maryland games this year. We will happily accept tickets to any remaining game, the ACC Tournament or the NCAAs. We are the team's lucky charm. ;)

Comcast Center thoughts: It can get loud, but eh, it's not nearly the best big arena I have been in. A lot of the sound gets lost, although there were some pretty loud moments. I didn't know the students sit during the timeouts (they only cheered for promotions or when a camera was on them). They were very disjointed and out of sync for most of the game. However, their treatment of our players and coaches and some of our fans makes me not want to cheer for them ever again. They will never be my rival, but as long as I'm in DC, I love beating them. Yesterday, I wore my Duke tie and Duke cap to work and got a lot of coy smiles and some dirty looks. Today, I wore my Duke fleece and another Duke cap...silence. Just me walking through the Metro with a smile up my face is enough to drive them up the wall. I love it, and I love our boys. GO DUKE!

[KBCrazie]

Cameron Crazies chant a profanity every game. "Duke is gonna win tonight, Carolina goodnight EAT S@#$" occurs at every single game.

Fixed that for ya. I doubt that anyone watching a broadcast who never attended a game at CIS and/or personally sang that song knows that is what is being said. It's a totally different ballgame than what occurred last night and at most Duke games at Comcast.

[KBCrazie]

- The vulgar Singler chant was the only coordinated vulgarity/chant that I heard, and it seemed more out of boredom during the injury timeout, than directed at anything he'd done.


There was another one directed at Paulus which was not as overtly vulgar, but would be to those in the know (e.g., most college students).

The Singler chant was started because they thought a dirty play on his part caused the injury. When you watch the replay, he clearly extended his leg in front of the player, perhaps with the intent of tripping him up, but you could hardly have considered that an intent to injure.

[KBCrazie]

I also recall Kyle, heading out of bounds, passing the ball to Zoubek and the ball just bounced off his hands out of bounds.

It appeared to me that the ball actually bounced off Z's chest, then went out of bounds. Not sure he even got his hands on it. It looked bad, like he didn't even react to the ball coming right at him.

[_Gary]

Firstly, as I said last night, great win for this team. I feel a lot of good stuff will come from this type of gritty, on the road in a hostile environment, win. We may look back on this game as a turning point for the team. Seriously!

I want to thank Feldspar for the info on the screen. I didn't think, at first blush, that it was a horrible screen. But I did think he was shuffling his feet a bit and that his forearm was positioned to pop Nolan in the chops. The screen caps shown earlier in this thread make it very obvious that it was NOT a legal screen. Like others, three things bothered me about the screen itself and the aftermath.

1) Nolan was seriously hurt. I knew right away it was some form of concussion. That much seemed obvious to me.

2) The announcers insisting, almost with gusto, that it was legal. They were intent on ramming that point down the national audiences' throat.

3) The fans cheering. That was also obviously directed at Nolan. For anyone to give them the benefit of the doubt about what they were directing their cheers toward is absurd. You cheer a made basket for a few seconds. Once the action stops and a guy is being attended to on the floor you don't keep cheering the made basket. That's so simple even a caveman can figure it out. And thanks to the poster that clued us in on what was being chanted. Classless all the way.

As for what ESPN should/could have done. I agree cutting away was not the answer. But turning down the audience mics certainly could have been accomplished and it wouldn't have been out of line. My bigger gripe is that neither announcer called out the crowd for the classlessness of the situation. I've heard many an announcer over the years, in all sports, call out crowds for unseemly conduct. If ever there was a situation when it was called for, last night was it. I'd almost say the announcers were negligent for NOT saying something (about the cheer and possibly about the Singler chant, although the latter wasn't something I'd insist they say anything about).

I sincerely hope Nolan is ok. We will need him to make a push in March. Mark it down!


Gary

[NashvilleDevil]

I'm furious about the screen. So furious that I'm breaking my vow of silence.

I'm furious about people like Jay Bilas insisting that screen was legal without producing a shred of rules knowledge to back up his so-called assessment.

I'm furious that Nolan Smith likely suffered a concussion on a play that too many people are saying was "clean."

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:



Not only are these rules clearly laid out, they are a point of emphasis for this year.

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

I'm so tired of announcers proclaiming 100% certainty on calls like this as if they are the final authority. It only creates an environment where plays like this, in the future, become standard and it becomes okay to set an illegal screen and give a guy a concussion.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

After the screen I noticed that Neal was looking to initiate contact the rest of the game. Towards the end he would run with the point guard and then try to throw a shoulder at the Duke player. He did this a couple of times and it changed my mind about the screen. At first I thought it was legal and poor communication on Duke's part. While it was still poor communication by Duke after observings Neal's actions after the screen I felt it was a a dirty play.

[bird]

Scheyer now has two turnovers in the last three games.

In a way, if your point is supposed to be creative, maybe you want a certain level of turnovers. No turnovers may reflect caution as much as care. Hurley turned the ball over a bit in his career, but he was such a creative force that you took the bad with the greater good.

That being said, I find Scheyer's turnover statistics, combined with my (subjective) belief that our offensive efficiency has gone way up in the last two games, as indicating a postive correlation between Jon's lack of turnovers and the team playing better.

Scheyer may be Dunleavy-like in playing style, but he is having a Shane-like effect on the team right now.

[bossesjoe]

I don't think it's worth it to get caught in this mini-rivalry between fans. They'll call us bandwagon fans, nerds, [redacted], whatever and we'll dish similar stuff back out to them. Having lived in Maryland for a period of time I have respect for the U of M and their basketball team and I don't think it makes us look any better just to rail on them after they played much better then people gave them credit for and almost knocked off their second top ten team in a row. I think that what their fans did was over the top but that's just the kid of things that fans do and I'm sure that guys on the team were barely affected by it.

It was a great game to watch. I was glad to see the three point shooting coming out as an effective tool when out options inside the paint were limited. For a long stretch I feel that it kept us in the game, and hopefully we'll see more of that from Paulus. I feel that we have on of the best benches in all of college basketball and I think that gives a smart coach like Coach K the ability to really adjust playing styles to match our opponent which should help us come march.

Maryland played really great, and they hit some amazing shots. I think they deserve to definitely make the tournament and they will do well if they do and play with the passion they did this last game.

[bjornolf]

A few things.

1. Somebody on the in-game board said that Philly fans wouldn't cheer for an opposing player being hurt. They have, they do. I've been to Philly and heard them do it. I've been to a Redskins' home game against them and heard them do it. I've heard Eagles fans cheer when one of their OWN players who was playing poorly got injured. Never underestimate Philly fans. Never.

2. I noticed a couple people wrote this, and I've been thinking about it ever since the change, so I'll go ahead and write it too. I'm SOMEWHAT reminded of the 2001 team with this team. I realize that no one was injured like Boozer, and I don't think we've got a shot at a title without some SERIOUS luck and/or things falling our way, but it just reminds me a little of it with K changing the lineup and style of play right in the middle. The guys' toughness reminds me a little of that team, too. Just a thought.

3. Just my opinion, but I didn't think the screen on Nolan was "dirty". It was a little physical, and it may have deserved a foul for his leaning into it, but I don't think it was dirty. Someone mentioned that you naturally lean into contact. There's a difference between leaning into contact and leaning OUT of your vertical plane to CREATE contact. If you look at the picture, he would have completely missed Nolan if he hadn't leaned so far forward. It looks like Nolan "felt" him and was scrunching to get around him, and the lean is what created the contact. Nolan's trying to squeeze around him is what also brought his chin into contact with Neal's arm. If he'd just run into the pick straight up, he probably wouldn't have gotten hurt as bad. I still don't think it was "dirty", though it did deserve a foul for the lean. It certainly wasn't as blatantly dirty as some I've seen in the past. It was a physical game and a physical screen. I have MORE problem with nobody calling it out to Nolan beforehand. Reminds me of some of the shots Wojo used to take on screens when nobody warned him. He used to get black eyes ALL the time from screens. Still, tough shot, but Smith's a tough kid, so I'm sure he'll be back. Prayers and good wishes his way for a speedy recovery!

4. Has anyone noticed that they didn't stop plays for either injury? Is that a new policy? They used to stop if it wasn't a break. We went through half an offensive series with Mosley lying on the floor, and they pretty much did the same with Nolan on the floor. THAT really annoyed me. I thought we should have stopped for Mosley, maybe picked up the ball and asked the ref to stop play. That would have been classy, I thought. Similarly, they should have done the same for Nolan, though I'll give them a break on that since Nolan wasn't lying in the middle of their end like Mosley was. I think the refs should have stopped play for both, though. The Mosley play could have been especially dangerous with him rolling around on the floor in the middle of the action. Somebody could have fallen on him or tripped over him and made it worse for him or injured others. Smith's was bad cause he CLEARLY needed IMMEDIATE attention.

5. Speaking of the injuries and the foul cheering by the fans upon Nolan's injury, did anybody think that was the turning point in the game? It just seemed to STEEL our guys. G's reaction was obvious, but I thought all the guys got that "we're gonna do this for Nolan" look in their eyes. Kind of like bulletin board material. I think the fans lost the terps the game at that moment. Ouch. Fans should never HURT their own team that way. I didn't think Nolan's injury alone did it as much as the injury in combination with the cheering. Did anybody else notice or think this?

6. Everybody keeps talking about how hard our closing stretch is. And it is. But look at VT! FSU, @Clemson, Duke, UNC, @FSU. Now THAT'S BRUTAL!

7. Somebody asked about Terp fans booing their own player. A month or so ago, Vasquez had a bad stretch of a few games. It climaxed in a home game where fans booed him, shouted racial epithets at him, and told him to go back to his home country (Cuba maybe?) (that's what I heard, though the below article doesn't reference that, just booing and saying shape up). Vasquez shouted some four letter words back, I believe. The local media talked about it a little bit. Gary said on his radio show that he didn't think the fans would do that, but the next day he got on Vasquez for responding to the fans, but said nothing about the fans' actions. The school seemed to blame Vasquez for his response more than the fans for their boorish behavior.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/10/AR2009011001973.html

Anyway, those are just my thoughts and reactions to what others have written here.

[MB in MD]

That being said, I find Scheyer's turnover statistics, combined with my (subjective) belief that our offensive efficiency has gone way up in the last two games, as indicating a postive correlation between Jon's lack of turnovers and the team playing better.



Nothing subjective about it. Offensive efficiency, from Ken Pomeroy:

St Johns 114.5
Wake 138.2 (a ridiculous number against a quality team)
Maryland 116.7

Have to go back to the first Maryland game to find anything as high.

[Skitzle]

I'm furious about the screen. So furious that I'm breaking my vow of silence.

I'm furious about people like Jay Bilas insisting that screen was legal without producing a shred of rules knowledge to back up his so-called assessment.

I'm furious that Nolan Smith likely suffered a concussion on a play that too many people are saying was "clean."

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:



Not only are these rules clearly laid out, they are a point of emphasis for this year.

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

I'm so tired of announcers proclaiming 100% certainty on calls like this as if they are the final authority. It only creates an environment where plays like this, in the future, become standard and it becomes okay to set an illegal screen and give a guy a concussion.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

I've got to chime in.... I think it was a fair screen. 100% legal, probably not. 100% illegal probably not.

Did Smith have "a step to move"? I think so.
Did Neal shuffle his feet? Maybe a little
Did Neal lean? He definitely leaned forward a little, but looked more to me like he was bracing for impact than setting an illegal screen (which are normally called when a screen leans side to side). I don't think Neal had the intention of hurting Nolan.

It was a GOOD hard physical play, and Smith was just on the wrong end of it. Lance Thomas has leveled guys with screens a couple of times this year. No one ever got hurt, so they were never discussed.

Maryland fans cheering is another story, but I think that there is definitely an argument to be made that it was a clean block.

Nolan will recover, life will go on. Yea it sucks, but it could have been worse. Let's count our blessings that it wasn't worse, wish Nolan a healthy and speedy recovery, enjoy the win, and move on.

[tele]

I'm furious about the screen. So furious that I'm breaking my vow of silence.

I'm furious about people like Jay Bilas insisting that screen was legal without producing a shred of rules knowledge to back up his so-called assessment.

I'm furious that Nolan Smith likely suffered a concussion on a play that too many people are saying was "clean."

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:



Not only are these rules clearly laid out, they are a point of emphasis for this year.

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

I'm so tired of announcers proclaiming 100% certainty on calls like this as if they are the final authority. It only creates an environment where plays like this, in the future, become standard and it becomes okay to set an illegal screen and give a guy a concussion.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

Thanks for posting this, I agree completely. I thought at the time Neal was moving laterally, and that he leaned into Nolan and brought his arms up at the same time to give him an extra pop.

Even if it had been a legal screen, which it wasn't, it still would have been a cheap shot. Hockey teams have designated thugs on them for conducting legal plays like this and for getting into fights to hopefully get one of the opposing teams players out of the game or at least gain an advantage. Is that how you'd like acc basketball to be played? Maybe if players are at risk of a concussion just from running up the court then the ACC will need to require helmets with face shields for all players just like the NHL. And we'll have been led there by Maryland and Coach Williams.

I was also disappointed in Bilas for his comments about this play, he sounded like he was trying to convince himself, as well as everyone else, it was a legal play. Must be great to work for ESPN.

On ESPN letting the obscene chants and gutter language being heard over the air; whether ESPN means to or not, by doing this they are embarrassing Maryland and damaging recruiting prospects for the basketball program. I say let them continue to show this on tv and no parent will want their child to play in front of that type of mob or for a coach that encourages that type of behavior and condones cheap shot plays. Turps actions perpetuate their own decline, and Paulus slaps the M in another Duke win.

[Chitowndevil]

Nothing subjective about it. Offensive efficiency, from Ken Pomeroy:

St Johns 114.5
Wake 138.2 (a ridiculous number against a quality team)
Maryland 116.7

Have to go back to the first Maryland game to find anything as high.

Unfortunately, here are our worst 9 games of the season in terms of defensive efficiency (effective FG% in parentheses, which is like FG% but gives extra weight to made 3s). For reference, Duke's defensive efficiency on the season is 88.0, still rated 5th nationally.

Maryland, 2/25 100.2 (51.0%)
Georgetown, 1/15 102.5 (55.9%)
St. John's, 2/19 103.9 (56.0%)
Michigan, 12/6 115.1 (54.3%)
Boston College, 2/15 116.2 (66.7%)
Clemson, 2/4 118.3 (52.5%)
Rhode Island, 11/15 119.0 (64.2%)
Wake Forest, 2/22 124.5 (65.3%)
North Carolina, 2/11 127.6 (59.7%)

I am really concerned by Duke's defensive numbers lately. Duke has allowed an opponent eFG% of at least 51% in each of its last seven games, and in only one of those games have they posted a defensive efficiency below 100 (Miami). I know people are excited by the new lineup but it has NOT fixed the defensive issues I am seeing both watching the games and in the data.

EDIT: Also, though I don't mean to stir folks up, I wanted to comment on the ESPN coverage issue. Look, nobody is saying Maryland fans should be banned from TV because they use profanity. But I find it completely unacceptable for "F*** you, Singler" to be continuously heard for around 30 seconds on a national TV broadcast. Yes, it is just a word, and yes, Duke fans use profanity, too. But in this case, there's no fight song playing in the background, and much worse in my opinion, the word in question is being directed at a 20 year old kid who did nothing but get his foot stepped on. Ask yourself how you would feel if you were Kyle's family member watching that. Yes, I understand they've probably been to games and heard their son being cursed at before. But it is quite another thing to have it played on national TV.

[The Gordog]

What, exactly, would you like ESPN to do? Not broadcast games at Maryland?

The team should be fined by the ACC and by the FCC. If they don't clean up their act they should lose a portion of their ACC touney tickets.

[blazindw]

1. Somebody on the in-game board said that Philly fans wouldn't cheer for an opposing player being hurt. They have, they do. I've been to Philly and heard them do it. I've been to a Redskins' home game against them and heard them do it. I've heard Eagles fans cheer when one of their OWN players who was playing poorly got injured. Never underestimate Philly fans. Never.

Yes, Philly fans actually cheered when Michael Irvin when he landed on his head in a game and suffered a serious neck injury, one that ended his career. I never forgive Philly fans for that one. They also booed Santa Claus.


4. Has anyone noticed that they didn't stop plays for either injury? Is that a new policy? They used to stop if it wasn't a break. We went through half an offensive series with Mosley lying on the floor, and they pretty much did the same with Nolan on the floor. THAT really annoyed me. I thought we should have stopped for Mosley, maybe picked up the ball and asked the ref to stop play. That would have been classy, I thought. Similarly, they should have done the same for Nolan, though I'll give them a break on that since Nolan wasn't lying in the middle of their end like Mosley was. I think the refs should have stopped play for both, though. The Mosley play could have been especially dangerous with him rolling around on the floor in the middle of the action. Somebody could have fallen on him or tripped over him and made it worse for him or injured others. Smith's was bad cause he CLEARLY needed IMMEDIATE attention.

This has been the policy for a long time. It's so people don't fake injuries to stop the other team's offensive momentum. They only stop when the team who has the injured player has possession. While last night were two examples of times where the whistle should have blown immediately (especially for Nolan's injury), if they stopped for every injury, you would see players flopping all over the place with random injuries to stop the other team's offensive fast break and allow the defense to set up.


7. Somebody asked about Terp fans booing their own player. A month or so ago, Vasquez had a bad stretch of a few games. It climaxed in a home game where fans booed him, shouted racial epithets at him, and told him to go back to his home country (Cuba maybe?) (that's what I heard, though the below article doesn't reference that, just booing and saying shape up). Vasquez shouted some four letter words back, I believe. The local media talked about it a little bit. Gary said on his radio show that he didn't think the fans would do that, but the next day he got on Vasquez for responding to the fans, but said nothing about the fans' actions. The school seemed to blame Vasquez for his response more than the fans for their boorish behavior.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/10/AR2009011001973.html

Vasquez is from Caracas, Venezuela. Up here in DC, we didn't hear about the racial epithets or the "go back to your home" comments. From what we know, he was booed simply because he had a bad stretch of play over some games, including the game in question. During that game, they booed and yelled at him every time he missed a shot or made a turnover or bad play. I think what also sparked it was an earlier season comment he made about loving to play on the road more than at home because of the hostile crowds. I think the students took exception to that.

[hedgehog]

My immediate reaction to the screen was something along the lines of, "That is why Zoubek doesn't/shouldn't get minutes." He should have been there to warn Nolan." I was in disbelief that Zoubek's mental mistake allowed Nolan to get injured. Another poster mentioned that he doesn't think Zoubek went back in the game after the screen. If I was Coach K, I certainly would have done the same and glued Zoubek to the bench.

[dahntaysdawg]

My immediate reaction to the screen was something along the lines of, "That is why Zoubek doesn't/shouldn't get minutes." He should have been there to warn Nolan." I was in disbelief that Zoubek's mental mistake allowed Nolan to get injured. Another poster mentioned that he doesn't think Zoubek went back in the game after the screen. If I was Coach K, I certainly would have done the same and glued Zoubek to the bench.

100% Agreement here, a few posters even voted Zoubek as MOTM last night, they must have watched a different game than I did.

[mike88]

Remmeber that Maryland had had a lot of success with bringing the ball up the court quickly. I am sure that Brian was trying to hustle back on defense and didn't immediately notice that Neal was going to set a pick in the backcourt- I don't think it was a lack of effort, just a lack of awareness in trying to do the right thing.

In terms of the pick itself, I am less concerned about the leaning in than about raising the forearm. From the replays I have seen, it was the forearm under the chin that caused Nolan's concussion- if he had just run into Neal's upper arm or chest (assuming Neal had maintained legal screening position), it would have knocked him down, but not cuased the same type of head injury.

I have no doubt that Neal wanted to put a little "extra" into that pick, but I hope that he recognizes that it was wrong and went beyond the level of appropriately physical play. It bothered me that Bilas and Patrick were so committed to their conclusion before they watched the replays, and seemed to stick with them even when the replays contradicted their initial interpretation. You could see K going to the officials right way, as I am sure he had a very clear view from the bench of Neal raising up his forearm.

[SMO]

I'm furious about the screen. So furious that I'm breaking my vow of silence.

I'm furious about people like Jay Bilas insisting that screen was legal without producing a shred of rules knowledge to back up his so-called assessment.

I'm furious that Nolan Smith likely suffered a concussion on a play that too many people are saying was "clean."

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:



Not only are these rules clearly laid out, they are a point of emphasis for this year.

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

I'm so tired of announcers proclaiming 100% certainty on calls like this as if they are the final authority. It only creates an environment where plays like this, in the future, become standard and it becomes okay to set an illegal screen and give a guy a concussion.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

For once I agree with you. I too tire of commentators deciding what is/isn't a foul with absolute certainty before really analyzing a play. Did you also hear Bilas discussing the box the NBA has under the basket when G drew a charge? Jay really likes discussing the non-existant NCAA box in which guys cannot draw charges!

Disclaimer: I like Bilas and think he did a nice game overall.

[brumby041]

For once I agree with you. I too tire of commentators deciding what is/isn't a foul with absolute certainty before really analyzing a play. Did you also hear Bilas discussing the box the NBA has under the basket when G drew a charge? Jay really likes discussing the non-existant NCAA box in which guys cannot draw charges!

Disclaimer: I like Bilas and think he did a nice game overall.

In fairness, it was General Grevious' 5th foul, and when the replay got to the overhead shot, Jay did say that G was not under the basket. (It is funny hearing about the circle in college, though.)

[feldspar]

For once I agree with you. I too tire of commentators deciding what is/isn't a foul with absolute certainty before really analyzing a play. Did you also hear Bilas discussing the box the NBA has under the basket when G drew a charge? Jay really likes discussing the non-existant NCAA box in which guys cannot draw charges!

Disclaimer: I like Bilas and think he did a nice game overall.

I've said it before. I really like Jay and he's one of the most astute college basketball observers out there....UNTIL...he opens his mouth about the rules. He consistently gets the rules absolutely wrong, yet makes sweeping proclamations like last night's "completely legal" comment about the screen.

The "under the basket" thing was particularly embarrassing. Not only does college basketball not have a defensive semi-circle, Jay, but Gerald wasn't even in that area when he drew the charge. He had to backtrack once he saw the replay, but his argument is still pointless. There is no under-the-basket area like in the NBA. It just doesn't exist.

"That's a tough call. Henderson is.....well, he is outside the box, where it would be. It's still a tough call.......for your fifth foul......but a good call."

C'mon, Jay.

[OJD88]

Hello all,
I come in peace. I just thought I'd offer a Maryland (student) fans perspective. We are not all crude, vulgar, obscene creatures. I thought both teams played a hell of a game, but you guys hit some big shots when it counted. Your new line up seems to be working very well. Do you all agree with this? Although in hindsight, it seems K should have realized this a long time ago.

The officiating was horrible on both sides. It seemed they were letting everything go in the first half, and then started calling it very tightly towards the end.

Because of the online lottery ticket distribution, there is a much higher percentage of fair-weather fans admitted to this game, which is very unfortunate. The Scheyerfaces were hilarious. It seems your team got a kick out of them too.

The "F U Singler" chant was un-called for. It seemed to be coming mostly from the wall, and everyone who was sitting in my immediate area was trying to get them to shut up, I thought we had moved past that.
Gerald Henderson is a beast. That dunk he hit on us was incredible. Safe to say we are greatly anticipating him leaving, haha.

I thought the screen on Smith was legal, albeit very hard (You can take that with a grain of salt of course). I truly hope he is doing okay however. I do not think it was justified, but a lot of people were upset about Mosley going down, and I think this caused the uproar. Of course, he also hit that huge 3 afterward.

I was impressed with our defense and how hard we played. Vasquez in foul trouble really hurt us. I hope we can continue this type of play and it can carry us to the Tournament. Right now we need at least 2 more wins, and possibly one in the ACC Tournament. Not favorable on our part. I'd more than willing to answer any questions.

[blazindw]

Hello all,
I come in peace. I just thought I'd offer a Maryland (student) fans perspective. We are not all crude, vulgar, obscene creatures. I thought both teams played a hell of a game, but you guys hit some big shots when it counted. Your new line up seems to be working very well. Do you all agree with this? Although in hindsight, it seems K should have realized this a long time ago.

The officiating was horrible on both sides. It seemed they were letting everything go in the first half, and then started calling it very tightly towards the end.

Because of the online lottery ticket distribution, there is a much higher percentage of fair-weather fans admitted to this game, which is very unfortunate. The Scheyerfaces were hilarious. It seems your team got a kick out of them too.

The "F U Singler" chant was un-called for. It seemed to be coming mostly from the wall, and everyone who was sitting in my immediate area was trying to get them to shut up, I thought we had moved past that.
Gerald Henderson is a beast. That dunk he hit on us was incredible. Safe to say we are greatly anticipating him leaving, haha.

I thought the screen on Smith was legal, albeit very hard (You can take that with a grain of salt of course). I truly hope he is doing okay however. I do not think it was justified, but a lot of people were upset about Mosley going down, and I think this caused the uproar. Of course, he also hit that huge 3 afterward.

I was impressed with our defense and how hard we played. Vasquez in foul trouble really hurt us. I hope we can continue this type of play and it can carry us to the Tournament. Right now we need at least 2 more wins, and possibly one in the ACC Tournament. Not favorable on our part. I'd more than willing to answer any questions.

I appreciate your comments. Please post here more often! As for the Singler chant, I was sitting in the endzone opposite the wall, and the cheer actually started on the right sideline (if you were looking at the wall) in the middle. Once the wall heard it, it spread like wildfire. I'm glad that some students had the sense not to do the chant and try to get everyone to stop, but it's a tall task when you got 4000-5000 students and 75% of them are chanting in unison.

[Ders24]

Hello all,
I come in peace. I just thought I'd offer a Maryland (student) fans perspective. We are not all crude, vulgar, obscene creatures. I thought both teams played a hell of a game, but you guys hit some big shots when it counted. Your new line up seems to be working very well. Do you all agree with this? Although in hindsight, it seems K should have realized this a long time ago.

The officiating was horrible on both sides. It seemed they were letting everything go in the first half, and then started calling it very tightly towards the end.

Because of the online lottery ticket distribution, there is a much higher percentage of fair-weather fans admitted to this game, which is very unfortunate. The Scheyerfaces were hilarious. It seems your team got a kick out of them too.

The "F U Singler" chant was un-called for. It seemed to be coming mostly from the wall, and everyone who was sitting in my immediate area was trying to get them to shut up, I thought we had moved past that.
Gerald Henderson is a beast. That dunk he hit on us was incredible. Safe to say we are greatly anticipating him leaving, haha.

I thought the screen on Smith was legal, albeit very hard (You can take that with a grain of salt of course). I truly hope he is doing okay however. I do not think it was justified, but a lot of people were upset about Mosley going down, and I think this caused the uproar. Of course, he also hit that huge 3 afterward.

I was impressed with our defense and how hard we played. Vasquez in foul trouble really hurt us. I hope we can continue this type of play and it can carry us to the Tournament. Right now we need at least 2 more wins, and possibly one in the ACC Tournament. Not favorable on our part. I'd more than willing to answer any questions.

I also appreciate that you are posting here. The Scheyer faces are hilarious. There was actually a page in our yearbook dedicated to them one or two years ago, so I really doubt that they bother him (or anyone on the team) at all.

Just out of curiosity -- what is the general student feeling towards Gary? Does it go back and forth or has it remained pretty consistent?

[tele]

Hello all,
I come in peace. I just thought I'd offer a Maryland (student) fans perspective. We are not all crude, vulgar, obscene creatures. .

Hi OJD88, welcome!

Say, did you know any of those maryland students who were calling the Duke team hotel all night? Is it true they were all getting extra credit for their telemarketing majors?

[OJD88]

After the beating we took at Cameron, there was a lot of controversy around Gary (mainly his recruiting). The Washington Post ran a three part series about it, which I'm sure you are aware of. The first part was very one-sided, and dealt primarily with the recruits that we had "missed out on". The other parts dealt with the AAU scene in recent years, and how Gary refuses to play in the gray area. Anyway, this really ticked off a LOT of people.

The very next home game, we played Miami, the crowd was VERY pro-Gary. For the VA Tech game, a few boosters printed up 'Garyland' t-shirts with "We love our Coach" on the back, and handed them out to everyone sitting courtside. The Baltimore Ravens head coach, among others, proudly wore his the entire game.

His contract is up in I think three or so years, and the general consensus is that he has earned himself the right to leave on his on terms after building the program back up from absolute rock bottom. Also it is pretty unanimous that this could be his most impressive coaching job in his career, given the size of our front court, and the level of talent he is dealing with this year. We have taken our share of blowouts, but have won nearly every game we were expected to (excluding the Morgan State loss). We also have some impressive wins over Michigan St, Michigan, and UNC. The fact that we were competitive throughout most of the Duke game is also promising.

We feel that we have the resources to be competitive year in and year out. The ACC, media market, tradition, recruiting area, etc. We appreciate everything Gary has done, and will always support him. We just feel that we could be recruiting better players, especially given the ample level of talent in the area. We expect our next coach to be a young, energetic coach, who loves to recruit. I hope I answered your question, I might have rambled a little bit.

[Reddevil]

A very nice win in hostile territory. Before a Duke at MD game comes on TV, sit little Johnny down and explain to him that he will hear some things that are not nice and use it to teach him a life lesson - then enjoy.

This game is a classic case of learning some things without losing. The new lineup has some advantages that have been discussed at length, but it also has some glaring disadvantages which I am sure will be addressed. Because of the lack of a penetrating point guard, the team struggles against a zone unless G or EW attack it. This results in the old passing around the perimeter routine, and standing around waiting for some one to do something. This is where Zoubs or Miles can come in and offer an inside presence, and Nolan can enter the fray as a driving threat. The defense is not nearly as good as it was the old way. I am not advocating switching back, but a mix of the new and old might help, and it forces the other team to adjust instead of the other way around. Also, it would spread some minutes around keeping the guys fresh. These "growing pains" are certainly the result of making a change so late in the season. Williams has turned the corner. Once the light comes on for Miles - this team will be really tough to deal with. Great win!

[arnie]

It appeared to me that the ball actually bounced off Z's chest, then went out of bounds. Not sure he even got his hands on it. It looked bad, like he didn't even react to the ball coming right at him.

I've aways felt that the "fault" for that type turnover lies with the passer. The passer has to know the abilities of the recepient; and with this recepient, no pass should be made to him down low unless he has several feet of clear path to the basket. Kind of reminds me of passes to Casy Sanders - simply don't make them. Z's offensive role should generally be limited to legal screens and put backs.

[ncexnyc]

That screen violated three out of the five criteria for a "blind screen" established by NCAA rules:

Calling that a "clean" or "legal" screen only exacerbates the problem. I don't care if it's been done before or even done by Duke players. Jay Bilas can say all day long that the screen was clean. It wasn't. The player had not given Smith ample time to change direction after being set, he clearly leaned into the screen and was moving.

The refs completely missed this one. That's their issue to deal with. But announcers and fans have an obligation to not tolerate this kind of basketball and then chalk it up as "aw, shucks, whaddaya gonna do." Concussions are serious business. It's ridiculous.

I totally disagree with you on this. I'm not sure why you highlighted the 3 portions of the rule like you did as you are way off on item a.
Nolan wasn't STATIONARY, he wasn't moving and ran into Neal. I also feel you're wrong in your reading of item b. I don't believe your view of moving is what is intended by that line. The third point you mention can be open to inturpretation. Did Neal throw his forearm into Nolan or was he bracing for the upcoming impact? It's a judgement call, one which Nolan came out on the wrong end of.

As has already been mentioned on this thread, Lance has leveled several players this year and he has definitely braced/leaned into the opposition at the moment of impact.

If you want to get furious, get mad at Nolan's bench and fellow players for not warning him about the pick.

[tbyers11]

He's [Paulus] just an easy target. By now all ACC fans know that he plays off of emotion (both positive and negative), so they try to get in his head. And 85% of the time they succeed. But there's nothing better than when he's able to drain threes and shut them all up.

I really don't think the crowd succeeds in messing with Greg's head 85% of the time. These guys are used to the crowd getting on them all the time. Maybe the play of the opposing team gets in the player's head and the crowd might amplify that, but I really don't think the crowd itself does much.

Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post blogs about how the Duke players and coaches dealt with the off-the-court and in-game actions of the Maryland fans (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/02/dukies_take_the_high_road.html). The players and Coach K took the high road about the situation.

Of course it is easier to be magnanimous after a big win on another team's home court but our players come off really well in this article. Great win guys!

[OldSchool]

Neal leaned far forward and was moving to his left to initiate the contact with Nolan.

But in a home game, the home team sometimes gets those calls.

If Neal had been in, say, the Dean Dome and tried his moving-screen-with-forearm-to-the-jaw act to lay out Ty Lawson with a concussion, he would have been whistled faster than you can say "Deputy Dawg."

[roywhite]

Neal leaned far forward and was moving to his left to initiate the contact with Nolan.

But in a home game, the home team sometimes gets those calls.

If Neal had been in, say, the Dean Dome and tried his moving-screen-with-forearm-to-the-jaw act to lay out Ty Lawson with a concussion, he would have been whistled faster than you can say "Deputy Dawg."

I think you're right about that call going the other way if Neal nails a home team player. Kind of a shame to think that officiating varies somewhat according to home team, etc. but I guess refs are human, too.

[such]

1. Gerald's dunk was amazing and overall his game was awesome. I love watching this guy play, my favorite move of his is when he pulls up, elevates over everyone and shoots the ball at almost a line drive through the net.

2. Its so nice to see Elliott Williams out there. Favorite move of his: his rebounding!! He has a knack for the ball and he has the physical ability and desire to go up and get it away from anyone else.

3. I thought on the pick that the maryland defender was moving, was he moving enough to be called for an offensive foul? i dont know? I dont think the elbow movement during the pick was enough to call it a dirty play. My only concern is that he moved into the pick (btw, our bigs do it all the time as well and i always get worried the refs will call it on us).

4. Dont mind any chants the maryland fans do, at least they arent throwing stuff at our small minority of fans in their stadium anymore. Totally felt like they were cheering when our guy went down though which if true, was classless. Duke fans would never ever do that, and if we did, coach K would not tolerate it.

[glutton]

Vasquez has a skin condition - he doesn't wear rouge. Hating someone for a medical condition beyond his control (even bringing it up at all) sounds more like something a Terp would say then something a Duke fan would say.

Although I don't think that ever stopped us with Rasheed... :)

[huied]

Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post blogs about how the Duke players and coaches dealt with the off-the-court and in-game actions of the Maryland fans (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/02/dukies_take_the_high_road.html). The players and Coach K took the high road about the situation.


Great read. I love Coach K's comments at the end.

"'You stink?' Well, I know I don't. I mean, 'Your mother is something?' Well, I know that's not true." :p

[zingit]

"Cameron Crazies chant a profanity every game. "Duke is gonna win tonight, Carolina goodnight EAT S@#$" occurs at every single game."

Fixed that for ya. I doubt that anyone watching a broadcast who never attended a game at CIS and/or personally sang that song knows that is what is being said. It's a totally different ballgame than what occurred last night and at most Duke games at Comcast.

Huh? Maybe it was different at the games you've attended, KBCrazie, or in the earlier versions of the song, but nowadays it's like the original poster said, "We're gonna win tonight, Carolina go to hell, eat s***!"

Also, someone earlier linked to the WaPo saying that the Duke players took the high road. (Really nice read; I'm glad they're so classy.) I clicked on the previous blog post about "Operation Scheyerface 2.0" and found this quote:


Unlike many of her contemporaries, Perrone admitted to feeling occasional twinges of guilt over Scheyerfacedom, and even more so over the signs making fun of Scheyer's sister.

Ugh, I can guess what they might have said. Yet ANOTHER example of classlessness from this game. And it's not creative either, especially given that they've done this before. As the players said, they need to come up with some new material.

[SMO]

After the beating we took at Cameron, there was a lot of controversy around Gary (mainly his recruiting). The Washington Post ran a three part series about it, which I'm sure you are aware of. The first part was very one-sided, and dealt primarily with the recruits that we had "missed out on". The other parts dealt with the AAU scene in recent years, and how Gary refuses to play in the gray area. Anyway, this really ticked off a LOT of people.

Not to detract from the OP's point, but I thought it was funny hearing Mike Patrick say last night that Gary's players rallied around him especially in terms of recruiting criticism. Well, duh. If they hadn't, wouldn't that kind of been like admitting they are second rate recruits and their talent doesn't stack up to the rest of the league???

[snowdenscold]

Huh? Maybe it was different at the games you've attended, KBCrazie, or in the earlier versions of the song, but nowadays it's like the original poster said, "We're gonna win tonight, Carolina go to hell, eat s***!"


I always said "Carolina, goodnight, beat State!" (which I believe was the original wording) The first part I don't mind getting changed so much, but the eat **** always seemed unnecessary.

[summerwind03]

I always said "Carolina, goodnight, beat State!" (which I believe was the original wording) The first part I don't mind getting changed so much, but the eat **** always seemed unnecessary.

I had to train myself to say this, but I feel better now that I do. And my friends' kids were cute and put whatever team we're playing in there, which is clever.

[NSDukeFan]

A very nice win in hostile territory. Before a Duke at MD game comes on TV, sit little Johnny down and explain to him that he will hear some things that are not nice and use it to teach him a life lesson - then enjoy.

This game is a classic case of learning some things without losing. The new lineup has some advantages that have been discussed at length, but it also has some glaring disadvantages which I am sure will be addressed. Because of the lack of a penetrating point guard, the team struggles against a zone unless G or EW attack it. This results in the old passing around the perimeter routine, and standing around waiting for some one to do something. This is where Zoubs or Miles can come in and offer an inside presence, and Nolan can enter the fray as a driving threat. The defense is not nearly as good as it was the old way. I am not advocating switching back, but a mix of the new and old might help, and it forces the other team to adjust instead of the other way around. Also, it would spread some minutes around keeping the guys fresh. These "growing pains" are certainly the result of making a change so late in the season. Williams has turned the corner. Once the light comes on for Miles - this team will be really tough to deal with. Great win!

I like your post as I think that is part of the (pleasant?) problem we have is that we have lots of people who can contribute in different ways. We may not get back to the extremely stingy D we had at the start of the year with our changes in the lineup, but hopefully we can get some better contributions from Nolan on the perimeter and Z and Plumlee inside. We know they are capable of solidifying our D for good periods of time. Along with David providing great D and rebounding off the bench and Greg with his shooting, emotion and leadership, I hope we are seeing this team rounding into from for an exciting end to Phase IV and Phase V.

[DukieInKansas]

Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post blogs about how the Duke players and coaches dealt with the off-the-court and in-game actions of the Maryland fans (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/02/dukies_take_the_high_road.html). The players and Coach K took the high road about the situation.


Favorite comment after the blog entry: "I was going to make some comments about how classy duke players are, and how much I respect Coach K. Then I remembered how bad my team is, and I just wept for an hour."

[ArnieMc]

I still, for the life of me, can't figure out why the entire nation hates Greg Paulus.

I could see why they hated Laettner, Hurley, Wojo, etc. But Paulus? Is it because he actually shows emotion?

Most of the altercations he's in are a result of the other player taking cheap shots. Maybe he says stuff to them you can't hear.According to Bryan Kersey (3rd hand), Greg is the chippiest player in the ACC. In the fine tradition of Heyman, Ferry, Dunleavy and others, he is always poking, prodding, elbowing, grabbing, pushing, and generally annoying opponents. He's just so subtle that it is never called - until last night (the double technical). When someone flattens a Duke player or throws him on the floor and punches him, it's always Paulus. Why? - because he usually deserves it. :)

[GoingFor#5]

You could hear on TV pretty clearly what the Md fans were shouting with regard to Singler I can't believe that it would be allowed on national TV. Does the ACC have no standards for behavior and/or language? It is clear that ESPN doesn't.

It all goes back to Gary Williams. Instead of lauding him as a very good ACC coach, he needs to be criticized for allowing that type of behavior. Coach K would stop the game if a chant like the one Singler was receiving ever happened at Cameron.

[Matches]

According to Bryan Kersey (3rd hand), Greg is the chippiest player in the ACC. In the fine tradition of Heyman, Ferry, Dunleavy and others, he is always poking, prodding, elbowing, grabbing, pushing, and generally annoying opponents. He's just so subtle that it is never called - until last night (the double technical). When someone flattens a Duke player or throws him on the floor and punches him, it's always Paulus. Why? - because he usually deserves it. :)

Yeah, I love Paulus but I can totally see why he's hated. He is a master at getting people to hit him back. He reminds me a lot of Steve Blake, actually.

[bjornolf]

Vasquez is from Caracas, Venezuela. Up here in DC, we didn't hear about the racial epithets or the "go back to your home" comments. From what we know, he was booed simply because he had a bad stretch of play over some games, including the game in question. During that game, they booed and yelled at him every time he missed a shot or made a turnover or bad play. I think what also sparked it was an earlier season comment he made about loving to play on the road more than at home because of the hostile crowds. I think the students took exception to that.

I live in DC too. The evening after the game in question, Gary's radio show addressed this issue and one of the hosts mentioned the words "racial epithet" and "go back where you came from". Like I said, Gary defended the students, saying he didn't believe they'd say that and he hadn't heard that, so maybe the host had heard wrong. But they did say that on the radio show.

[blazindw]

I live in DC too. The evening after the game in question, Gary's radio show addressed this issue and one of the hosts mentioned the words "racial epithet" and "go back where you came from". Like I said, Gary defended the students, saying he didn't believe they'd say that and he hadn't heard that, so maybe the host had heard wrong. But they did say that on the radio show.

Fair enough...I don't listen to the radio, which is probably why I didn't catch that. I only read what was in the Post the couple of days following the game.

[the general]

terp fan here in peace. or at least until i get banned.

wanted to offer a few thoughts on the game last night. congrats on the win. comcast is a hard place to win in big games. props for that. henderson is really emerging, scheyer and singler are always solid, and williams looks like he could be a real player down the road.

a couple things struck me as hypocritical. the eff you singler chants were obviously unnecessary and embarassing as an alum but to defend your own profane chant with "nobody even really knows what we're saying" is stupid. you're using foul language of your own, even if its harder to hear.

the neal pick was completely legal. your own jay bilas stated this several times. i played basketball in high school and when i was setting a pick the tendency is to lean forward slightly to brace yourself for impact. neal did the same thing. all basketball players do this. again, i'm not sure how many of the fans on the board have played basketball or a sport in general but there was nothing dirty there.

third point is regarding the graduation rates. the infamous 0% grad rate is completely embarassing and reflects poorly on gw but doesnt tell the whole story. the ncaa counts a student athlete as graduating if he completes the necessary requirements within 6 years of beginning school. players that graduate after this time frame do not count towards graduating per the ncaa. keith booth, for instance, is one example of this. he left school during the spring semester of his senior year to prepare himself for the nba draft. he was a few credits short of graduating. he ended up being drafted with the last pick in the first round, meaning he had a guaranteed 3 year contract. anyone that watched booth in college knew he wasnt an nba player. the guy is a 6'5 power forward with limited athleticism. regardless, he got a contract in the league for 3 years. when that time was up, he returned to school and finished his remaining credits and graduated, although he was a part of the "0%".

unlike a school like unc, maryland forces students to complete their last 30 credits on campus in order to graduate. online classes will not count, making it much more difficult for players in europe or the nba to do so within the 6 year time frame.

finally, i think gary has felt some heat from the athletic department regarding his graduation rates and has put more emphasis on the players to finishing on time. in 2007, four of six seniors graduated. last year all three seniors graduated and this year the lone senior neal will follow suit. and its not even in sociology.. jk good luck the rest of the year

[OJD88]

^ Did this guy just completely copy my post?

[OldSchool]

a couple things struck me as hypocritical. the eff you singler chants were obviously unnecessary and embarassing as an alum but to defend your own profane chant with "nobody even really knows what we're saying" is stupid. you're using foul language of your own, even if its harder to hear.

You're trying to equate singling out a kid by name with the Maryland student body yelling in unison F--- You Singler (or JJ or whomever) with Duke fans saying GTHC or "eat s--- State?" How grasping and pathetic.


the neal pick was completely legal. your own jay bilas stated this several times. i played basketball in high school and when i was setting a pick the tendency is to lean forward slightly to brace yourself for impact. neal did the same thing. all basketball players do this. again, i'm not sure how many of the fans on the board have played basketball or a sport in general but there was nothing dirty there.

Neal was not "leaning foward slightly."

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/WBHylton/LeaningPick.jpg?t=1235631326

Neal was moving to his left and leaning far into Nolan, with his arm UP in order to deliver an extra little whack on Nolan.

If Neal tries that garbage in any other arena in the league he's getting a whistle and maybe worse.

I've played basketball for decades and even now still play pick-up ball. If I tried that stunt, people would be following me out to the parking lot.


third point is regarding the graduation rates. the infamous 0% grad rate is completely embarassing and reflects poorly on gw but doesnt tell the whole story. the ncaa counts a student athlete as graduating if he completes the necessary requirements within 6 years of beginning school. players that graduate after this time frame do not count towards graduating per the ncaa. keith booth, for instance, is one example of this. he left school during the spring semester of his senior year to prepare himself for the nba draft. he was a few credits short of graduating. he ended up being drafted with the last pick in the first round, meaning he had a guaranteed 3 year contract. anyone that watched booth in college knew he wasnt an nba player. the guy is a 6'5 power forward with limited athleticism. regardless, he got a contract in the league for 3 years. when that time was up, he returned to school and finished his remaining credits and graduated, although he was a part of the "0%".

So if we give you Keith Boothe, that would have moved that 0% to what, 3%? 5%?

Yep, you can be real proud of that.

[roywhite]

So if we give you Keith Boothe, that would have moved that 0% to what, 3%? 5%?

Yep, you can be real proud of that.

Or "Keet Boot" as Bobby Cremins pronounced it.

Keith Booth was a very good player, and apparently a solid citizen. Duke certainly tried hard to recruit him. But that's pretty unusual for the two schools to battle head-to-head for a recruit, even though both are prominent in the Mid-Atlantic area. That says something to me---the two programs are not looking for the same type of player or person.

[Lord Ash]

terp fan here in peace. or at least until i get banned.


You'll only get banned if you are rude or obnoxious or insulting. Otherwise, discuss away.

[the general]

You're trying to equate singling out a kid by name with the Maryland student body yelling in unison F--- You Singler (or JJ or whomever) with Duke fans saying GTHC or "eat s--- State?" How grasping and pathetic.

i expected a response like this. i don't condone the statement last night. but for duke fans to say stuff like, "we're so above that", "we don't use that kind of language" while at the same time saying eat s***. maybe its just me, but i dont follow.


Neal was not "leaning foward slightly."

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/WBHylton/LeaningPick.jpg?t=1235631326

Neal was moving to his left and leaning far into Nolan, with his arm UP in order to deliver an extra little whack on Nolan.

If Neal tries that garbage in any other arena in the league he's getting a whistle and maybe worse.

I've played basketball for decades and even now still play pick-up ball. If I tried that stunt, people would be following me out to the parking lot.


ive seen the frozen image. the play was reviewed numerous times during the game by bilas, who said the exact same thing that i stated earlier. the play was shown by the sports talk shows today as well (PTI, around the horn) and they agreed with bilas as well. half of the posters didn't think it was dirty or illegal.

So if we give you Keith Boothe, that would have moved that 0% to what, 3%? 5%?

Yep, you can be real proud of that.

that wasn't my point. you need to focus on your comprehension. im saying keith booth, like alot of professional prospects, left school a handful of credits short of graduating. if maryland allowed online classes to be used to complete a degree he could easily finish within the six year period. we don't recruit idiot students. we don't have a poor academic support system. we have a few rules in place that make it more difficult to graduate from md on time than at other peer institutions. and after this year, it will be 8 out of the last 10, which is more respectable.

[OldSchool]

Bilas is not a good authority on calls involving Duke. He is always going overboard to try to prove he's not a "homer."

Case in point was Vasquez's fifth foul. Bilas tried to insinuate it was a questionable call.

But it wasn't at all, and in fact Henderson's defensive position on that play would be textbook for young players to follow. It is so tempting in that situation to lean your arms into the shooter in hopes of getting a piece of the ball. But G was disciplined and maintained a perfect vertical stance, and Greivis just carried the play too far.

[Lord Ash]

that wasn't my point. you need to focus on your comprehension. im saying keith booth, like alot of professional prospects, left school a handful of credits short of graduating. if maryland allowed online classes to be used to complete a degree he could easily finish within the six year period. we don't recruit idiot students. we don't have a poor academic support system. we have a few rules in place that make it more difficult to graduate from md on time than at other peer institutions. and after this year, it will be 8 out of the last 10, which is more respectable.

Hm, I think that is a large leap of faith, to go from no one graduating to saying, in effect, you have a strong academic support system. If you were at 30 percent graduation, or 50, maybe. But Maryland is looking at a MUCH lower rate, and this among a large number of guys who never really did much on the pro level. And if every other school can top it, including schools with many more pro prospects, do you really think it is just acceptance of online credits that make all the difference? I find that hard to believe.

Also... ARE people allowed to "brace for impact?" And where does allowable bracing transform into rule breaking? It seems to me that most picks involve a relatively straight up and down body posture... a lot of guys even leave their arms low to protect their privates, as they expect full body contact on a flat plane. This pick did not seem to have that.

Regardless, I think the Maryland fan reaction to the incident is of more interest to the majority of Duke fans than the screen itself.

[_Gary]

general, the one thing you failed to mention in your laundry list was the applauding of the Maryland fans at Nolan getting laid out. That was the most egregious issue of the entire night, yet you failed to comment on it.

BTW, you are welcome here. Please don't think otherwise.

[snewman92]

terp fan here in peace. or at least until i get banned.

I appreciate your posting here, and I thank you for being more gracious than many other Maryland fans.

I don't mean to pile on, but let me ask you about an event from last night's game that enraged me and, I figure, many other Duke fans: The disgusting reaction to Nolan's injury. We can debate the pick--whether Neal was set, whether he did or did not move his arms up, etc. What's not debatable is that many of your fans seemed to revel in the sight of a 20 year-old young man writhing on the floor in agony. I have watched sports all my life and played them in high school and college. I'm glad to say that I don't ever recall hearing fans cheer the injury of another player. Usually a hush falls over the crowd. . .some semblance of respect, because, at the least, people don't want to look like barbaric a**holes, even if they are secretly celebrating. I'm afraid that that's not what I heard and saw last night. This makes me despise your fans. If they think they are our rivals, I can't view them that way. They're not worthy of the name. I say this as someone with great respect for Maryland as a university. But the chip on your fans' shoulders about Duke has really warped them, I think.

If you have some alternative explanation, I'm all ears.

[Virginian]

Bilas is not a good authority on calls involving Duke. He is always going overboard to try to prove he's not a "homer."

Case in point was Vasquez's fifth foul. Bilas tried to insinuate it was a questionable call.

But it wasn't at all, and in fact Henderson's defensive position on that play would be textbook for young players to follow. It is so tempting in that situation to lean your arms into the shooter in hopes of getting a piece of the ball. But G was disciplined and maintained a perfect vertical stance, and Greivis just carried the play too far.

Bilas and Patrick spent an awful lot of the first half kissing up to Md., going on and on about how good they really are, and what a great record Gary really has over SO MANY YEARS, and how under-appreciated they are, and how unfair the fan criticism of Gary is, and blah, blah, blah. It was a really big sloppy kiss for Md. and Gary. Well, fine. But I couldn't help but think that there was no way that Bilas would ever do that for Duke.

The Nolan screen was the same thing. Neal clearly moved left, leaned forward and raised his arms from his stomach to his chest and gave Nolan a good shot. The fact that Nolan's body snapped backwards like he had been hit by a truck was proof it wasn't the "Dude, I was like just standing there minding my own business and this kid like totally runs into me outta nowhere" collision that Bilas and Patrick insisted. Yes, Neal did not extend his arms, but he did put all his weight behind his raised arms. And yes, most times that would NOT be called a foul on the screener. I'm fine with that no call.

But that was not some innocent bump that went suddenly very badly, so why did Bilas and Patrick spend the rest of the game fighting to outdo each other in their protestations about how legitimate a move it was? They spent zero time defending Henderson's charge-taking against Grievous, which was a MUCH bigger play in terms of importance to the game's outcome. Not only did Grievous deliver the charge, he also extended one of his arms to deliver a blow to Henderson in the process. It was a totally legitimate call and a really stupid move on the part of Grievous. The announcers should have made it really clear that someone with 4 fouls and with that importance to the Md. team was really stupid to make that move.

But look, Duke fans will never be happy with Bilas. We respect his abilities and his smarts, but it's clear he'll spend his entire career doing whatever it takes to try to "live down" his Duke association. We just have to live with it.

[the general]

wilbon said on pti that the maryland crowd cheered smith when he got up off the floor. maybe the fans were cheering the 3 by neal and subsequent timeout as a sort of momentum shifter. i dont have dvr and havent rewatched the game. someone help me out here, i cant remember the exact sequence of events.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

ACC officials are really bad, and IMO, Smith getting his bell rung is their fault.

There were a lot of missed calls, both ways.

I thought that hard pick was MD's retaliation for the missed Zoubeck charge call that sent the MD player flying out of bounds a few plays earlier. GW wanted to show his teams toughness, especially at home.

It was a competitive play, not a dirty one, but one that would not have occured if the officials would just make the obvious calls.

[JDev]

It was a competitive play, not a dirty one, but one that would not have occured if the officials would just make the obvious calls.

I think that is a pretty good way to put it. I don't think I would call the play dirty, and I can see how some would interpret it as completely legal and agree with the no-call. I feel he was not stationary and that he unnecessarily leaned in, leading to the unfortunate end result. That same play would probably be called a foul just as often as not. I think that when in doubt, an official should err on the side of caution.

[KShip21]

Beleve me, there are plenty of terps fans who are disgusted and fed up with the recent (last decade) MD fanbase. My dad played soccer and graduated from MD while his brother attended Duke (I side with my uncle obviously). Anyway, my dad has all but stopped rooting for MD all together due to his embrassment of being associated with the fanbase. With that said, he roots for Duke and was pulling for us hard last night. Especially after the singler chant.

[InSpades]

Just rewatched the play a few times on DVR...

1st off, they don't show Nolan getting up and walking off the floor, they went to commercial, so can't say if the clapped for him when he got up.

There was definitely a lot of cheering after the block. The crowd was very loud way before Neal hit the 3-pointer. I guess you could excuse that saying they didn't know he was really hurt (but it was kind of obvious).

Then after the play was over the applause lasted far longer than normal. A crowd with decency would go quiet when a player is lying on the floor being tended to by the trainer. It wasn't egregious, but I could see why people would get upset about it.

[dyedwab]

wilbon said on pti that the maryland crowd cheered smith when he got up off the floor. maybe the fans were cheering the 3 by neal and subsequent timeout as a sort of momentum shifter. i dont have dvr and havent rewatched the game. someone help me out here, i cant remember the exact sequence of events.

Wilbon is misleading at best. the crowd was clearly cheering loudly while Smith laid on the ground.

sure fans were cheering the hard pick and the 3 - but when guys are writhing on the ground, I've heard buildings (including Cameron) become morque-quiet. Not this time.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think that is a pretty good way to put it. I don't think I would call the play dirty, and I can see how some would interpret it as completely legal and agree with the no-call. I feel he was not stationary and that he unnecessarily leaned in, leading to the unfortunate end result. That same play would probably be called a foul just as often as not. I think that when in doubt, an official should err on the side of caution.

To be clear, I don't think the pick was a MD foul, although it could have been called and I could have bought it.

I thought it was just an unnecessary response to the missed call on Zoubek's charge, and it got a player hurt this time. Would that pick have ever been set if the officials had just called Zoubek for the obvious charge previously?

[the general]

Just rewatched the play a few times on DVR...

1st off, they don't show Nolan getting up and walking off the floor, they went to commercial, so can't say if the clapped for him when he got up.



fwiw wilbon wasnt watching on tv, he was there

[FerryFor50]

To be clear, I don't think the pick was a MD foul, although it could have been called and I could have bought it.

I thought it was just an unnecessary response to the missed call on Zoubek's charge, and it got a player hurt this time. Would that pick have ever been set if the officials had just called Zoubek for the obvious charge previously?

I think the Zoubek "charge" was more of a flop on Neal's part. Z didn't hit him hard enough to send a guy his stature flying like that.

[InSpades]

fwiw wilbon wasnt watching on tv, he was there

No doubt he was there, I'm just saying from the TV replay you can't say whether they clapped or not. I'm not buying Wilbon as the most impartial spectator. I'm sure some of the fans clapped. No one is suggesting that *all* Maryland fans are classless :).

[InSpades]

I think the Zoubek "charge" was more of a flop on Neal's part. Z didn't hit him hard enough to send a guy his stature flying like that.

Definitely was a flop. Whether or not it was still a foul on Zoubs is debatable. I'm sure the refs saw it though, how could you miss it?

[OldSchool]

fwiw wilbon wasnt watching on tv, he was there

Wilbon is a Washington Post columnist. University of Maryland fans are a large part of his readership base. It's like the ESPN commentators, they don't want to make enemies among their audience. They are not going to slam the Maryland fans, and if they do make any criticism it will be made very lightly.

There were posters on this very thread, such as -bdbd and blazindw, who were there in person at the Comcast Center and described what they witnessed as to the behavior of the Maryland fans. You can go up the thread and read what they have to say.

[JBDuke]

Wilbon is a Washington Post columnist. University of Maryland fans are a large part of his readership base. It's like the ESPN commentators, they don't want to make enemies among their audience. They are not going to slam the Maryland fans, and if they do make any criticism it will be made very lightly.

There were posters on this very thread, such as -bdbd and blazindw, who were there in person at the Comcast Center and described what they witnessed as to the behavior of the Maryland fans. You can go up the thread and read what they have to say.

I'd be more willing to give the Maryland crowd the benefit of the doubt, if I hadn't witnessed this behavior myself previously. I was at the Duke game in Cole back in 2000 (at least I think it was 2000...). Chris Carawell got laid out on a screen in a circumstance not that different from what happened to Nolan last night, and had to be helped off the floor. The Maryland fans were clearly cheering the injury.

I have no doubt that they were doing the same last night.

Frankly, if I were a Maryland alum, I'd be mortified. I'd be writing Debbie Yow in protest and threatening to withhold my contributions. It's going to take a Steve Kerr like incident for the Maryland administration to take any real action, I'm afraid.

[snewman92]

Thanks for the pointer to the posts by bdbd and blazindw. I didn't have time to read the whole thread but probably should have before I posted. It's sad to see that my interpretation of the general MD rxn to Nolan's injury seems on target. Of course, I don't mean that all MD fans are this boorish--I'm sure that the general didn't cheer--but it really does seem to be a problem with them. And cheering when a player is injured, that's just inexcusable.

[the general]

Wilbon is a Washington Post columnist. University of Maryland fans are a large part of his readership base. It's like the ESPN commentators, they don't want to make enemies among their audience. They are not going to slam the Maryland fans, and if they do make any criticism it will be made very lightly.

There were posters on this very thread, such as -bdbd and blazindw, who were there in person at the Comcast Center and described what they witnessed as to the behavior of the Maryland fans. You can go up the thread and read what they have to say.

wilbon has established himself as a cohost on one of the most popular shows on espn as well as a studio analyst for nba games. his gig for the post is clearly 3rd in line. he doesn't write that often for the paper and even if he did, i doubt he would care that much to distort what he actually saw. and i've read what the head line monitor has to say and frankly, i don't really care what his opinion is.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

I think the Zoubek "charge" was more of a flop on Neal's part. Z didn't hit him hard enough to send a guy his stature flying like that.

I'm certainly no MD fan, but only a Duke fan could argue that was not a charge Zoubek got away with:)

[JBDuke]

I'm certainly no MD fan, but only a Duke fan could argue that was not a charge Zoubek got away with:)

Oh, I think just about anyone could argue that Zoubek didn't get away with a charge - Duke fan or not. Given that Zoubek didn't have the ball at the time, and charging is a player control foul, Zoubek should have been called for a push, not for a charge.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Oh, I think just about anyone could argue that Zoubek didn't get away with a charge - Duke fan or not. Given that Zoubek didn't have the ball at the time, and charging is a player control foul, Zoubek should have been called for a push, not for a charge.

Touche'

[tbyers11]

wilbon has established himself as a cohost on one of the most popular shows on espn as well as a studio analyst for nba games. his gig for the post is clearly 3rd in line. he doesn't write that often for the paper and even if he did, i doubt he would care that much to distort what he actually saw. and i've read what the head line monitor has to say and frankly, i don't really care what his opinion is.

We've all got our opinions based on what we saw on TV and we have two well-respected DBR posters in-person opinions as well. Wilbon offers another that doesn't directly contradict either of theirs. He says that people cheered when Nolan walked off. That wasn't shown on TV, so I have no idea what happened then. I did see and hear the fans cheering for the fact that Smith was hurt on TV.

Personally, I for one don't really care what your opinion is. If you keep talking like that I don't think anyone around here is going to care much about your opinion either. I don't understand why fans of one team want to post on another teams board, but you started off well. Now you're just stirring the pot and beginning to resemble a troll.

[FireOgilvie]

I really don't think the crowd succeeds in messing with Greg's head 85% of the time. These guys are used to the crowd getting on them all the time. Maybe the play of the opposing team gets in the player's head and the crowd might amplify that, but I really don't think the crowd itself does much.

Dan Steinberg of the Washington Post blogs about how the Duke players and coaches dealt with the off-the-court and in-game actions of the Maryland fans (http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/02/dukies_take_the_high_road.html). The players and Coach K took the high road about the situation.

Of course it is easier to be magnanimous after a big win on another team's home court but our players come off really well in this article. Great win guys!


I don't know if this was mentioned, but look at the sign in the background of the picture in the article. It says "Scheyer the (?) _____ Masturbator." Ugh.

[InSpades]

It's basic human decency not to cheer when a player is hurt. When a guy is lying on the floor and the trainer comes out the vast majority of any crowd would go quiet. Certainly including Cameron. I would know, I've seen close to 80 games there (live, countless more on TV).

Beyond decency, if Cameron Crazies cheered when an opposing player got hurt there would be consequences. Those consequences may be as benign as Coach K telling them how disappointed he is in them, but any real Cameron Crazy would take that very seriously.

I was at Duke the year that Loren Woods came into Cameron and he was having a tough time (I forget exactly what it was, family/emotional problems?) and Coach K made a point to tell us that Loren was off limits. Not a single negative word was said about him. At some point you have to remember that these are just college kids playing a game of basketball.

Go crazy w/ Scheyer-face signs. Rag on Greg Paulus. It's part of being a fan of your team. There are certain things you don't do though. You don't throw dangerous objects at other fans. You don't cheer when a player gets hurt. You don't talk about underage siblings of the players. It's kind of sad that these things need to be talked about.

[JDev]

Anyone trying to come on here and defend the Maryland fans and program has a very tall task. The discussion has centered around Nolan's injury and the subsequent UM fan reaction, but it is viewed a certain way because of all the previous instances of misconduct. I know it has been mentioned on multiple threads, and it is a laundry list, a lot of which happened in this decade. If there weren't such an extensive list of misdeeds, last night probably wouldn't be looked at quite the same way. A very vocal portion of UM fans have made it clear how they want to carry themselves and how they want the program to be perceived, and it is not in a flattering light. They make themselves a very difficult group to try to defend because they have many actions that are indefensible.

[bjornolf]

I believe that Mike and Jay went back and looked at the replay of Zoubek's push several minutes later and basically concluded that it was mostly a flop by Neal. For THEM to conclude that given their recent track record... well, infer what you will.

Oh, and I wouldn't bring Wilbon into this too much. He basically defended the fans when they threw batteries and bottles several years back. He did it in a washington post article and in an ESPN interview.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n76/WBHylton/LeaningPick.jpg?t=1235631326

Sorry, you're not "bracing for impact" when your ankles are at that angle and the BACK of your head is in front of your toes, unless you're half the size of the person you're contacting. Your forehead should be EVEN with your toes if you're "bracing for impact" and leaning into it a little. Also, look at the body positions. Neal's clearly leaning to his left, as his right foot isn't even on the floor and is extended a long way. Further, looking at the positions of Neal, Smith, and Hayes on the floor, Hayes doesn't brush Smith into the screen properly. That screen COMPLETELY misses if Neal is standing straight up, though with Hayes' angle as he goes AROUND Neal, Smith probably would've been slowed a little by Neal's left shoulder as he tried to go around anyway. Neal CLEARLY initiates the contact here with his rather extreme lean. If you watch the direction of the players leading up to the contact in a video replay (they are going across the court more than up it at that point) and look at WHERE on Nolan's body the impact takes place (the left shoulder), that pick misses without that lean.

As a guy who plays a lot of pickup ball and who played football in college so I know something about body control and body angles, that is NOT a guy leaning in a little to absorb the impact better. That is a guy initiating contact. Still don't think it was "dirty" or that he was trying to hurt Smith, but it was NOT a legal screen and he was NOT just bracing for impact.

[UrinalCake]

Wilbon is a Washington Post columnist. University of Maryland fans are a large part of his readership base. It's like the ESPN commentators, they don't want to make enemies among their audience. They are not going to slam the Maryland fans, and if they do make any criticism it will be made very lightly.

This also explains why nothing negative is EVER said about UCONN on ESPN...

[gumbomoop]

Unfortunately, on that play at the end of the first half, Zoubs also missed the put-back, which I believe would have just beat the buzzer.

Oh well...expectations are pretty low for him at this point, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him have some key minutes and plays in the ACC and NCAA tournaments. Help sometimes comes from unexpected sources there.

Realistically, I'm just hoping that the Lance/Plumlee combination can get a little more consistent and productive.

Agree with every word in this post. In an otherwise totally-satisfying win, the last play of 1st half was a real bummer. On a beautifully planned, because unexpected, play, Z had a gimme. Surely no one, not Md, nor I (nor, presumably, any of you), expected a momentum shot to go to Z. Gary Williams and I expected maybe a drive-dish, or G to the rim, but not a Z screen, then a slip into lane for gimme. Beautifully designed, surprise element key. Perfect.

But not, for, alas, Z had to gather himself by bringing ball down just a bit, giving smaller defender time to block it. Even then Z had time, but not proper footwork, to put back a 2d gimme. Presumably K's "next play," or in this case "next half," mantra (which I mostly admire) came into action here, but still, for me, big bummer. Thank God it wasn't a perfectly designed play at end of game.

Positive for Z is contained in roywhite's sensible 2d paragraph.

[ArnieMc]

Still don't think it was "dirty" or that he was trying to hurt Smith, . . .
What other reason is there? If he wanted to help the ball handler get the ball up court, he could do like Duke and simply run a soft screen, interfering with the defender enough to get the ball into the front court. The only reason for a hard pick is to cause pain, to intimidate, and, yes, to injure.

[4decadedukie]

third point is regarding the graduation rates. the infamous 0% grad rate is completely embarassing and reflects poorly on gw but doesnt tell the whole story. the ncaa counts a student athlete as graduating if he completes the necessary requirements within 6 years of beginning school. players that graduate after this time frame do not count towards graduating per the ncaa. keith booth, for instance, is one example of this. he left school during the spring semester of his senior year to prepare himself for the nba draft. he was a few credits short of graduating. he ended up being drafted with the last pick in the first round, meaning he had a guaranteed 3 year contract. anyone that watched booth in college knew he wasnt an nba player. the guy is a 6'5 power forward with limited athleticism. regardless, he got a contract in the league for 3 years. when that time was up, he returned to school and finished his remaining credits and graduated, although he was a part of the "0%".

I am the DBR participant who continues to focus on scholastic relevance and graduation rates, because I sincerely believe these kids should principally be STUDENT ATHLETES (all schools, all sport, and all genders -- without exception). When a coach like Gary Williams and an institution like Maryland have -- and for MANY years -- obviously demonstrated essentially no concern with academic achievement in their flagship sports program (i.e., Men's Basketball), I fervently believe it both ignores the fundamental purpose of undergraduate athletics while additionally undermining the athletes’ long-term wellbeing. Very few Maryland (or Duke) basketball players will have professional athletic careers; therefore, that hard-earned degree, in a substantial discipline, is likely to be their catalyst to a successful, satisfying, and materially abundant life.

I can perceive no other governing concept for Maryland -- and many other universities, for that matter -- Basketball’s treatment of their athletes than exploitation. How many of these kids leave Maryland with no long-term pro prospects, with no real education or skills to distinguish them from “fast food hamburger flippers,” and with no viable opportunity for lifelong success? That this happens is shameful; that it knowingly occurs, with little tangible University effort to alter the paradigm significantly, is immoral.

Maryland will (I believe, this year) begin to lose basketball scholarships due to NCAA graduation rate sanctions. When that exacerbates their program’s “death spiral,” perhaps the AD will finally direct some meaningful changes.

Incidentally, your position regarding Keith Booth misses the critical point: All Division I schools operate under indistinguishable NCAA regulations and assessment criteria. Accordingly, Maryland’s last-place performance record is directly compared to every other university, many of whom have athletes with circumstances identical to Booth’s. Simply stated, a ZERO percent graduation rate is egregious.

[UrinalCake]

terp fan here in peace. or at least until i get banned.

Good to see a Maryland fan on here as part of a reasonable discussion. I always enjoy hearing opposing fans' points of views, as long as they are rational and respectful.

Regarding the graduation rate, I think most educated fans understand that the graduation percentage is not a perfect measure of the academic success of the program. There are several circumstances, like a player leaving early for the NBA, that probably shouldn't count against the school but do. Your point about online classes is an interesting one that I was unaware of.

Nonetheless, zero percent is still zero percent. If a school was at, say, 50%, then maybe you could say there were one or two special cases that were skewing the number (especially in basketball where there may only be two or three players in a class). But there's not really a way to defend zero percent. It might have been a statistical anomaly, but nevertheless it generates the perception that the school just doesn't care at all about graduation. As a Duke fan it makes me kind of happy though, because our fans produced some of their best work last year after that news came out ("Fear the classroom," etc).

Good luck to Maryland the rest of the year (unless we play them again); I hope they make the tournament because I think they deserve to go.

[COYS]

What other reason is there? If he wanted to help the ball handler get the ball up court, he could do like Duke and simply run a soft screen, interfering with the defender enough to get the ball into the front court. The only reason for a hard pick is to cause pain, to intimidate, and, yes, to injure.

Lance Thomas has definitely stoned a few defending guards in the open court this season.

[bjornolf]

What other reason is there? If he wanted to help the ball handler get the ball up court, he could do like Duke and simply run a soft screen, interfering with the defender enough to get the ball into the front court. The only reason for a hard pick is to cause pain, to intimidate, and, yes, to injure.

I think he's leaning forward to try to MAKE the pick. As I said in my last post, if you look at the position of the bodies, the position of the players on the court, and the direction in which Smith and Hayes were moving at the time, if Neal is standing straight up, Smith runs right past the pick without ever being touched. I'm not sure what you mean by "hard pick". If you just mean a solid screen, then I disagree. With a solid screen, if you can surprise the opponent and knock him off the man and really slow him down, then you can create a mini-break situation for your team. If you mean leaning in with your arms up and giving it a little mustard, then I partially agree (don't necessarily agree with the injure part). Anyway, that's still just how I see it.

[jv001]

That the Duke players are not commenting negatively about "the pick". They are once again showing they are not whiners. When I saw the play on TV I didn't think the play was illegal. Now that I've seen it with the lean into Nolan it's not a legal pick. However a good point was made that Lance has set some pretty hard picks this year also. I would be interested to see if he leaned into the opposing player. When I played bb (long ago), this kind of pick was to make the defender aware that he could get decked if he did not get help with that screen. The pick then becomes important in that it takes away some of the tenacity of the defender. This allows the ball handler to get the ball into the front court quicker and easier. Just my thoughts. Go Duke!

[The Gordog]

It's. Just. A. Word.

Can't we all just be content with Maryland fans embarrassing themselves and move on with our lives? Let's get off our high horses and stop pitching a collective fit. It's not our job as Duke fans to rid the world of profanity.

Not when your 4 year old repeats it at pre-school. And that's what would happen if I ever let my kids watch a game played at Maryland. Thankfully I have had ample forewarning and will not do it (let them watch us play that team at their home) until they are a lot older.

[DukeCO2009]

Not when your 4 year old repeats it at pre-school. And that's what would happen if I ever let my kids watch a game played at Maryland. Thankfully I have had ample forewarning and will not do it (let them watch us play that team at their home) until they are a lot older.

Mute it?

[allenmurray]

that wasn't my point. you need to focus on your comprehension. last 10, which is more respectable.

Being a Maryland fan on a Duke Board won't get you banned. We love wheat and he is a fan of our real rival. :)

But making smug and condescending satements like the one highlighted above, on only your fifth post to this board, shows the difference between some fan boards and this one. You have set yourself apart already. :(

[diesel]

Not when your 4 year old repeats it at pre-school. And that's what would happen if I ever let my kids watch a game played at Maryland. Thankfully I have had ample forewarning and will not do it (let them watch us play that team at their home) until they are a lot older.

I actually had to get the young children of visitors out of the room when watching a Maryland game in a previous year. The visitors were Canadians and they asked me whether there were any standards as to what was allowed on TV down here. This question from people who lived through an era when hockey players came up into the crowd to deal with hecklers they considered had crossed the line!

I see Governor O'Malley of Maryland was at the game Wednesday. I have seriously considered writing him to ask if he considers this is the best his state has to offer as its representatives. I feel like coupling it with a question as to what the mens' basketball program says about the state's educational standards, given the team's recent zero percent graduation rate.

[blueprofessor]

I actually had to get the young children of visitors out of the room when watching a Maryland game in a previous year. The visitors were Canadians and they asked me whether there were any standards as to what was allowed on TV down here. This question from people who lived through an era when hockey players came up into the crowd to deal with hecklers they considered had crossed the line!

I see Governor O'Malley of Maryland was at the game Wednesday. I have seriously considered writing him to ask if he considers this is the best his state has to offer as its representatives. I feel like coupling it with a question as to what the mens' basketball program says about the state's educational standards, given the team's recent zero percent graduation rate.

and ,in my experience, the Balmer denizens are among the cussingest (esp. the f*** bomb) in America.
Given that standard, O'M. may have considered the fan behavior pretty mild.

This stuff has been going on for years. I have yet to hear that any Maryland pol has criticized the misconduct.

Still, you may have a persuasive quality with your diction.Sincere wishes for your intended result.It is worth a try.:)

Best regards---Blueprofessor:)

[blueprofessor]

Being a Maryland fan on a Duke Board won't get you banned. We love wheat and he is a fan of our real rival. :)

But making smug and condescending satements like the one highlighted above, on only your fifth post to this board, shows the difference between some fan boards and this one. You have set yourself apart already. :(

to be a moderator!:D

I would welcome any Maryland fan's admission that the screen was illegal,with or without the intent to harm Nolan.

Given the 3,000 MD fans wearing F*** bomb t-shirts, the object throwing, the f*** you chants clearly discernible over tv, and other crude and vicious crowd actions, I am inclined to doubt that the immediate post--screen crowd reaction was mostly due to the MD basket, instead of the injury to Nolan.Just guessing....

Best regards---Blueprofessor of Ethics:)

[ChemGod]

terp fan here in peace. or at least until i get banned.

the neal pick was completely legal. your own jay bilas stated this several times. i played basketball in high school and when i was setting a pick the tendency is to lean forward slightly to brace yourself for impact. neal did the same thing. all basketball players do this. again, i'm not sure how many of the fans on the board have played basketball or a sport in general but there was nothing dirty there.



As someone who played a lot of BBall at Duke (and continues to do so) as well as walking on the football team, allow me to add my own variation to the response to your comments.

It MAY have been legal, although several pics on the contact definitely shows Neal leaning in. Hard to call at speed, and it almost is never a foul unless someone throws an elbow.

It was however, mean sprited. He was angry about the previous play with Z and was trying to make a point. If you played BBall, you know what I mean. He may not have gone out there with the intention to give him a concussion, but he DID mean to lay him out and everyone who saw the game know it. Since he is basically a thug player this more or less seems to be his role on the team.

Did he or any of the players express concern? We all heard the crowds hateful response. There is not much you can defend here other than to say he PROBABLY did not mean to inflict this magnitude of injury.

Oh, and as far as the gradumutation rate...dude, please...how can you even try to defend a 0% graduation rate. What part of ZERO does not tell the entire story??

You have my respect for being a rare person....a well spoken and polite Twerp fan!

ES

[bjornolf]

For those discussing the racial epithets directed toward Vasquez by Maryland fans, OJD88 wrote this over in the toughest fan thread:



Re: Vasquez being booed

I was at that game. I've heard the story told in every possible way, but the truth is there was a student in section 112 (courtside) that was heckling him throughout the game. If you notice, he directs his attention to this one particular student. Basically he was yelling racial epithets and him and mocking the hell out of him. At one point Greivis turned to the kid, told him to shut the f- up. While I don't condone what he did (and Gary gave him a talk after the game), I can definitely understand his reaction. As for older alumni who may boo him - I have no answer to that. Some people just don't like him I guess. Just wanted to make note that the boo-ing has been greatly exaggerated, and its a shame that such a small minority of vocal fans create a negative image of the overall fanbase. Then again, this is what we're used to.

So, there were racial epithets hurled, but they were only by one person, apparently.

[BD80]

...Oh, and as far as the gradumutation rate...dude, please...how can you even try to defend a 0% graduation rate. What part of ZERO does not tell the entire story?? ...

Hey, Maryland fans are REALLY excited. They heard that Sweatin' Gary has cracked down on academics and has promised to double, maybe even TRIPLE, the graduation rate!!!

[ChemGod]

And three times zero is....?

Too funny!

[Wheat/"/"/"]

It MAY have been legal, although several pics on the contact definitely shows Neal leaning in. Hard to call at speed, and it almost is never a foul unless someone throws an elbow.

It was however, mean sprited. He was angry about the previous play with Z and was trying to make a point. If you played BBall, you know what I mean. He may not have gone out there with the intention to give him a concussion, but he DID mean to lay him out and everyone who saw the game know it.

I didn't see the play as mean spirited, or angry. I saw it as a determined, hard pick in a very competitive game. Teams best expect those this time of year.

That's a pick I could easily visualize Duke putting on someone. In fact, I have seen it.

My point, that no-one seems too interested in commenting on, is that it probably never would have happened if the officials had just made the right call on Zoubek in the first place and kept control of the game.

Yes, MD was sending a message to Duke with that play..."we will not take being pushed around in our house". You can't really blame them at this level of competition.

The officials in the ACC are just plain bad, for everyone. This time their ineptitude got a player injured.

[Newton_14]

Wheat, this is rare for me, so make a note of it, but for once I am going to agree with you. The game got "chippy" on several occasions, and the refs did nothing to defuse it. The double foul on Paulus was comical as that was little more than Paulus putting his forearm on the twerps back, and the twerp slapping it away.

The acting by Neal aside, it was clearly a foul on Zoubs, kind of like the twerp catching the high pass down the sideline and then hopping his way to about 6 steps was clearly a walk. Had they called that foul on Zoubs, it is very possible the hard pick never happens.

I agree with you that ACC refs have been bad for some time now and miss obvious calls like those. I don't mind questionable calls, but some of the calls they make and don't make are beyond belief.

[_Gary]

ChemGod, thanks for posting. As someone who's played basketball (high school and playgrounds) my entire life I totally agree with you. Neal definitely meant to level Nolan. Of course we can't get into his head as far as how much damage and pain he meant to inflict, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he didn't actually want to cause a concussion. But as you said, he's clearly an "enforcer" type of player and he clearly was upset about the Zoubs play and was looking for payback. I just can't believe anyone with two eyes could see it differently. The guy was absolutely looking to pop Nolan as hard as he could - the shuffle, hard lean in, and elbow up is enough to prove that.

I completely disagree with Wheat's characterization that the pick was not mean spirited or angry. It was both those things, to be sure.

Again, thanks for posting ChemGod!

[ChemGod]

I didn't see the play as mean spirited, or angry. I saw it as a determined, hard pick in a very competitive game. Teams best expect those this time of year.

That's a pick I could easily visualize Duke putting on someone. In fact, I have seen it.

My point, that no-one seems too interested in commenting on, is that it probably never would have happened if the officials had just made the right call on Zoubek in the first place and kept control of the game.

Yes, MD was sending a message to Duke with that play..."we will not take being pushed around in our house". You can't really blame them at this level of competition.

The officials in the ACC are just plain bad, for everyone. This time their ineptitude got a player injured.

Wheat,

I am not sure your argurment holds water.

First, I have NEVER seen someone from Duke lay that kind of hit on a opposing player. EVER. I have seen tough play, but never the wind up that Neal took before the pick. Look at the picks!

Second, your point seems to be if Z was called for a foul, Neal would not have felt the need to bash Smith if the "foul" was called. This would seem to indicate a level of frustration with the no-call. You then state that he was in some way making a point (the perenial whelp from the insecure "we will not be pushed around in our house"). Again, an emotional response to the game circumstances.

Which is it? Either he purposely went for a hard shot because he was frustrated and trying to make a point, or it was just another pick. I am not necessarily being harsh on Neal...I think any player does understand the feeling. I think he is a punk for going overboard and then not even raising an eyebrown when the damage was obvious. My thoughts on the U MD fans I have already stated.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

Wheat,

I am not sure your argurment holds water.

First, I have NEVER seen someone from Duke lay that kind of hit on a opposing player. EVER. I have seen tough play, but never the wind up that Neal took before the pick. Look at the picks!

Second, your point seems to be if Z was called for a foul, Neal would not have felt the need to bash Smith if the "foul" was called. This would seem to indicate a level of frustration with the no-call. You then state that he was in some way making a point (the perenial whelp from the insecure "we will not be pushed around in our house"). Again, an emotional response to the game circumstances.

Which is it? Either he purposely went for a hard shot because he was frustrated and trying to make a point, or it was just another pick. I am not necessarily being harsh on Neal...I think any player does understand the feeling. I think he is a punk for going overboard and then not even raising an eyebrown when the damage was obvious. My thoughts on the U MD fans I have already stated.

He purposely set a tough pick in an emotional game. Completely within the rules of the game.

When big guys pick little guys at game speed, the ending is always bad for the little guy.

I would bet $20 that if the Zoubek play is called, as it should have been, that pick never happens. The poor officiating, again, has some responsibility here.

That's all I'm trying to say, other than I hate getting caught up defending anything Maryland...

[Wheat/"/"/"]

"I have NEVER seen someone from Duke lay that kind of hit on a opposing player. EVER."


We'll it wasn't a pick, but G's hard foul on TH last season was pretty much the same deal.

[Virginian]

"I have NEVER seen someone from Duke lay that kind of hit on a opposing player. EVER."


We'll it wasn't a pick, but G's hard foul on TH last season was pretty much the same deal.

So you're saying Neal should have been ejected and suspended as G was?

Okay, I know you didn't mean that. But there are several differences in the two events. Neal was going after Nolan, not going after the ball as G was. G's hit on TH was accidental; the foul was called because of course he hit TH but was said to be because G was not in control of his play. Neal was very much in control of his play and what he did was definitely intentional. By that I mean he meant to initiate contact, not that he meant to injure the other player. By these measures, Neal's action was far more serious -- it was intentional and caused a significant injury.

[calltheobvious]

Or "Keet Boot" as Bobby Cremins pronounced it.

Keith Booth was a very good player, and apparently a solid citizen. Duke certainly tried hard to recruit him. But that's pretty unusual for the two schools to battle head-to-head for a recruit, even though both are prominent in the Mid-Atlantic area. That says something to me---the two programs are not looking for the same type of player or person.

Just wanted to second this. I saw Keith Booth a few years ago when he was scouting at a high school state tournament. I approached him, told him that he and I had some ACC overlap, and informed him that he and Joe Smith had broken my heart my freshman year in Cameron ('95). He couldn't have been nicer, saying that he always enjoyed coming to play in front of the Crazies.

[Wheat/"/"/"]

So you're saying Neal should have been ejected and suspended as G was?

Okay, I know you didn't mean that. But there are several differences in the two events. Neal was going after Nolan, not going after the ball as G was. G's hit on TH was accidental; the foul was called because of course he hit TH but was said to be because G was not in control of his play. Neal was very much in control of his play and what he did was definitely intentional. By that I mean he meant to initiate contact, not that he meant to injure the other player. By these measures, Neal's action was far more serious -- it was intentional and caused a significant injury.

Did we see the same play? Neal initiated contact? Didn't Williams run into him?

That G-TH play came to mind as an example because both were plays that attempted to prove toughness on the part of the team that was precieved as being pushed around at the time. That's the similarity.

Duke is one of the toughest teams around. They are not only capable, but willing to set a pick just like Neal's. It was not an uncommon pick, and not dirty, we see it all the time. It just had a scary result. Seems like I recall Ty Lawson getting laid out, full speed, on one just like it.. was it last year?

BTW, I doubt that many will agree G's hit on TH was "accidental".
At any rate, let's let this thread die, because for sure no-one has any interest in re-hashing the G-TH play, and I can't take defending a MD play any more:)