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View Full Version : what is duke's best starting lineup?



houstondukie
02-19-2009, 08:10 PM
There is only one rule...

HENDERSON, SINGLER, AND SCHEYER MUST START.

Any lineup that does not include these three players is simply idiotic.

So, I ask you...

If you were Coach K, which 2 other players start??? And at what positions???

My lineup:
PG SCHEYER
SG SMITH
SF HENDERSON
PF SINGLER
C THOMAS

coldriver10
02-19-2009, 09:03 PM
Are you sure you don't have Smith and Scheyer reversed? Scheyer is more suited for the SG position, and Smith the PG. I agree with you on all counts except I'd switch those two.

FireOgilvie
02-19-2009, 09:08 PM
I'd like to see:

Smith
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Plumlee

This is the lineup that has the highest ceiling and isn't necessarily the players that are playing the best at any time. I would rotate guys and base P.T. on who looks good in any particular game.

Zoubek, Plumlee, and sometimes Singler are the only two players capable of defending the center position against a legit center. Singler isn't great at it because he lacks size and length to alter shots. He is the best rebounder of the 3 though. I am almost positive that Miles Plumlee will start next year over Thomas, Zoubek, and Mason Plumlee. He has fantastic mobility, athleticism, and shot-blocking ability.

I wish Thomas would develop his jumpshot and outside shooting game, because he plays more like a SF/PF (without the offensive game). He's built like a Kevin Durant/Tracy McGrady (and plays the center position like Tracy McGrady...) and shows flashes of a really solid jumpshot, but he very rarely uses it. He defends and rebounds like a SF. McClure is the same type of player, with more rebounding skill, general awareness, and less skill on offense. He's just too small to play inside, which is why Singler usually does this when McClure is in.

Oriole Way
02-19-2009, 09:08 PM
I want to see:

Scheyer
Williams
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

geraldsneighbor
02-19-2009, 09:22 PM
G Scheyer
G Williams
F Henderson
F Singler
F Thomas

I think its a big line-up that can play well in the half court. You also have another guy like Williams who can create his shot by driving to the basket.

FireOgilvie
02-19-2009, 09:30 PM
The problem with the Scheyer/Williams lineup (especially with Thomas in there) is defense. Scheyer is too slow to guard a quick PG and I'm not sure if Williams is capable of stepping in and doing that either. Thomas/Singler are too small to make up for penetration by a small PG as they don't offer much in shot-blocking/inside defensive presence. Scheyer is a decent PG (good passing/decent driving ability), but he isn't the ball-handler that Paulus and Smith are and had some trouble today bringing it up against St. John's... I would hate to see what happened against UNC/BC/Wake. If Scheyer and Williams are going to start, I would like to see Plumlee/Zoubek in there with some kind of defense that allowed them to just sit in the paint and provide some shot-blocking and defensive stopping (some version of what UConn runs with Thabeet).

Saratoga2
02-19-2009, 09:52 PM
Singler (Power Forward)
Henderson (Small Forward)
Scheyer (Point Forward)
Williams (Shootiing Guard)
Thomas (Power Forward)

In this lineup, Williams is your quick, long player who did well against theSJ point tonight. Maybe a couple of breakdowns, but then no help side defense was there in that case.

Thomas has been playing well and has earned the starting role, but Plumlee is really more of a center. If he can cut back on his fouls he can be effective inside, giving Duke a presence wereally need.

McClure, if he is healthy deserves solid PT, but doesn't offer much inside against the opponents bigger front lines, such as Wake.

Smith would be my first guard sub while Paulus would see PT situationally, when matchups are favorable.

Someone said they throught both Paaulus and Smith were better ball handlers then Scheyer. I don't see what they are referencing as both Paulus and Smith haven't done all that well running the offense.

jacalcio18
02-19-2009, 10:01 PM
Any lineup w/ Email in it. Why haven't the freshman played that many minutes every night? E's dirrrty.

jv001
02-19-2009, 10:23 PM
I want to see:

Scheyer
Williams
Henderson
Singler
Thomas

you got your wish tonight and I hope we see more of it. I have to admit that I was surprised how well Elliot played after not seeing a minute the last two games. At times I'm sure we will have to go big against strong inside players. That's when I would like to see Plumlee in the line up more. Go Duke!

chrisheery
02-19-2009, 10:43 PM
Are you sure you don't have Smith and Scheyer reversed? Scheyer is more suited for the SG position, and Smith the PG. I agree with you on all counts except I'd switch those two.

No, I don't think he did. Scheyer showed the capacity to run the team better than anyone else has tonight. Nolan still is our best on ball defender and can score. He was a SG in high school and might just be better suited to playing on the wing. I like that lineup as listed.

I also like Williams to come in for Nolan as a 2, offering similar defense and hopefully offense like tonight. Then, you can have Nolan and Paulus play PG when needed, but not in crunch time.

One thing that has bothered me is that our guys just don't find teammates when they cut backdoor or make good cuts behind the defense when the ballhandler drives. It limits their options and makes the driver too easy to guard. Tonight, there were some slip-screens and backdoor cuts that were open and the ball just was not delivered. I can think of 2 that Gerald should have passed off alone, 1 to Lance that would have been a dunk. Maybe Scheyer's presence as a PG will change that as he seems to have a knack for those type of passes.

Oriole Way
02-19-2009, 10:57 PM
you got your wish tonight and I hope we see more of it. I have to admit that I was surprised how well Elliot played after not seeing a minute the last two games. At times I'm sure we will have to go big against strong inside players. That's when I would like to see Plumlee in the line up more. Go Duke!

Elliot's the third most talented player on the team right now, and he'll only get better. Aside from the fact he needs to work on defense, it's really a mistake that he didn't get more minutes before tonight. But better late than never.

Elliot will struggle, like all freshman, so he might not be able to start every game. But I think that is our best lineup. Smith could enter the equation, but right now he's not playing well enough to get major minutes, and certainly not well enough to start.

jv001
02-19-2009, 11:06 PM
Elliot's the third most talented player on the team right now, and he'll only get better. Aside from the fact he needs to work on defense, it's really a mistake that he didn't get more minutes before tonight. But better late than never.

Elliot will struggle, like all freshman, so he might not be able to start every game. But I think that is our best lineup. Smith could enter the equation, but right now he's not playing well enough to get major minutes, and certainly not well enough to start.

Nolan has not played like he's capable of since the ACC season began. I know some say he's injured, but I don't think that's the case. His shot is even different and he looks tight. Too much pressure applied by himself. Needs to get back to just playing basketball and enjoy it. Go Duke!

DukeCO2009
02-19-2009, 11:17 PM
Elliot's the third most talented player on the team right now, and he'll only get better. Aside from the fact he needs to work on defense, it's really a mistake that he didn't get more minutes before tonight. But better late than never.

Elliot will struggle, like all freshman, so he might not be able to start every game. But I think that is our best lineup. Smith could enter the equation, but right now he's not playing well enough to get major minutes, and certainly not well enough to start.

You're preaching to the choir re: Elliot, and dead on when you say that he's our third most talented player. I've been saying since day one that he should get big minutes, and I'm so glad that K finally came around. He gets to the basket, is a solid shooter despite what he's shown so far, and continues to improve on defense. He has more upside than anyone on the team, and I think he can give us 8-10 a game if he gets the minutes he did tonight.

coldriver10
02-19-2009, 11:33 PM
No, I don't think he did. Scheyer showed the capacity to run the team better than anyone else has tonight. Nolan still is our best on ball defender and can score. He was a SG in high school and might just be better suited to playing on the wing. I like that lineup as listed.
Scheyer did pretty well at the point, and I wouldn't mind if he did that more. But Nolan is just not consistent enough of a shooter to play SG in my opinion. Scheyer hasn't been either recently, but he's had flashes of getting out of his funk...Nolan really hasn't.

tele
02-19-2009, 11:58 PM
Once you get a ways into the conference season, teams get to know what opponents do and don't do well. They try and take away what you do well and force you to do what you don't do well. Showing a new lineup in a non conference game is a good way to throw a new wrinkle at upcoming opponents, give them something else to prepare for, will it be scheyer at point? Or Paulus or Smith?

Sitting helps players see things too. I imagine both Smith and Paulus will both see quite al ot of time at point guard, they may not start every game but just watch who has the ball in their hands at crunch time. Having a mid season competition at point guard generally isn't a good thing, but if that's what you have then you may as well use it to your advantage by making it harder for the opposing team to prepare for your team.

chrisheery
02-20-2009, 12:18 AM
Scheyer did pretty well at the point, and I wouldn't mind if he did that more. But Nolan is just not consistent enough of a shooter to play SG in my opinion. Scheyer hasn't been either recently, but he's had flashes of getting out of his funk...Nolan really hasn't.

You do realize that just because you are called a SG doesn't mean you take more shots and PG doesn't necessarily not shoot, right? Instead, it means that the person playing PG is the primary ballhandler and the person responsible for getting the team into its offense. Jon showed he is more capable than anyone of that tonight. Nolan has always played off the ball until college. Not being a great shooter does not mean you can't play SG.

Ian
02-20-2009, 12:42 AM
I've been saying for weeks that Scheyer should be our PG. I was even given some kind of infraction on this board for being negative because I said Nolan Smith is a WG and not a PG.

But it's pretty obvious now that the person who makes the best decisions with the ball is Jon. Jon is not a natural PG, but he's the guy with the best PG related skills on this roster.

I think the goal for the rest of the regular season is to get him acclimated to the PG position, if we can do that we'll have a chance to make a run in March.

Hancock 4 Duke
02-20-2009, 10:34 AM
Singler (Power Forward)
Henderson (Small Forward)
Scheyer (Point Forward)
Williams (Shootiing Guard)
Thomas (Power Forward)

In this lineup, Williams is your quick, long player who did well against theSJ point tonight. Maybe a couple of breakdowns, but then no help side defense was there in that case.

Thomas has been playing well and has earned the starting role, but Plumlee is really more of a center. If he can cut back on his fouls he can be effective inside, giving Duke a presence wereally need.

McClure, if he is healthy deserves solid PT, but doesn't offer much inside against the opponents bigger front lines, such as Wake.

Smith would be my first guard sub while Paulus would see PT situationally, when matchups are favorable.

Someone said they throught both Paaulus and Smith were better ball handlers then Scheyer. I don't see what they are referencing as both Paulus and Smith haven't done all that well running the offense.

Exactly what I was thinking. With Ewill in there, we gain sort of a mini-Gerald Henderson. He can hit j-shots, or drive and dish. Scheyer adds his playmaking and quality defense. Hendo adds his ability to drive to the basket, or make any jumper he takes(not literally). Thomas and Singler both insert the strength to take either a jumper, or dunk and/or layup. Scheyer at point gaurd is our best bet now because Paulus and Smith seem to be in a slump.

ncexnyc
02-20-2009, 11:48 AM
Elliot's the third most talented player on the team right now, and he'll only get better. Aside from the fact he needs to work on defense, it's really a mistake that he didn't get more minutes before tonight. But better late than never.

Elliot will struggle, like all freshman, so he might not be able to start every game. But I think that is our best lineup. Smith could enter the equation, but right now he's not playing well enough to get major minutes, and certainly not well enough to start.

I've always been an advocate of getting the freshman playing time in meaningfull situations so they get the actual crunchtime experience, something that practice just doesn't give you.

I felt EWill should have been used more earlier in the season, however I really don't know if that was realistic as we were trying to develop Nolan at the PG position, a spot which he seemed capable of handling.

Let's be honest, the change made last night could be the answer to our problems, however we have to understand that if Coach K sticks with it there will be a bump or two along the road. Are we willing to put up with an off night by either Jon or EWill without going all spastic and calling for their heads? It seems to me that Coach K has to make a decision sometime soon and stick to it for the rest of the season in order to gain consistency not only for the remainder of this year, but to develop the team for next year.

Classof06
02-20-2009, 02:41 PM
I'd like to see:

Smith
Scheyer
Henderson
Singler
Plumlee

This is the lineup that has the highest ceiling and isn't necessarily the players that are playing the best at any time. I would rotate guys and base P.T. on who looks good in any particular game.

Zoubek, Plumlee, and sometimes Singler are the only two players capable of defending the center position against a legit center. Singler isn't great at it because he lacks size and length to alter shots. He is the best rebounder of the 3 though. I am almost positive that Miles Plumlee will start next year over Thomas, Zoubek, and Mason Plumlee. He has fantastic mobility, athleticism, and shot-blocking ability.

Co-sign. We are, what, 26 games into the season and I still have not heard one convincing argument as to why Miles Plumlee does not get more minutes. Clearly, Mike Krzyzewski knows more about the game of basketball than I ever will. But I just don't get it. There is no way he shouldn't be getting consistent minutes on this team.

With all due respect to Zoubek, I think it's time for Plumlee to get that first look off the bench. And though Lance has been playing quite well lately, he ain't 6-10.

I've been saying for weeks now that Plumlee should be playing and now that I see him playing, I think he should be playing even more. Duke is going to need either Miles or Brian if they want to go deep in March. And right now, Miles is looking like the most likely candidate.

coldriver10
02-20-2009, 03:10 PM
You do realize that just because you are called a SG doesn't mean you take more shots and PG doesn't necessarily not shoot, right? Instead, it means that the person playing PG is the primary ballhandler and the person responsible for getting the team into its offense. Jon showed he is more capable than anyone of that tonight. Nolan has always played off the ball until college. Not being a great shooter does not mean you can't play SG.
I realize that just because you play PG doesn't mean you can't shoot. There are plenty of shoot-first PGs. But I disagree with your statement that you can be "not a great shooter" and still be SG. If you're not handling the ball, passing, or shooting well, what are you doing?

If Nolan does shoot better off the ball, then that's a valid point to have him play SG. He's a great driver, and if he's more adept at doing that off the ball, that's another reason. And I admit I don't know whether or not this is the case. But I still think Scheyer's shooting makes him more suited to be SG than Nolan.

Having said that, Nolan's PG play has fallen off the past 10+ games (coincidentally, so has our offense as a whole), so if Scheyer gets the offense going at PG by all means let him play the point.