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houstondukie
04-06-2007, 08:13 PM
When are we going to start hearing Johnny Dawkins' name for head coaching positions. I know he has often been mentioned as Coach K's successor, but doesn't that seem like a long time to wait. K doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. It could be another 10-15 years before Coach K steps down (you know he's gonna chase the all-time wins record).

dukie8
04-06-2007, 08:23 PM
When are we going to start hearing Johnny Dawkins' name for head coaching positions. I know he has often been mentioned as Coach K's successor, but doesn't that seem like a long time to wait. K doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon. It could be another 10-15 years before Coach K steps down (you know he's gonna chase the all-time wins record).

maybe he actually likes working as k's righthand man and has no interest in being a head coach while waiting for the baton to pass to him. he certainly comes across as someone who is very happy with his current situation. some people actually value happiness more than money.

Bob Green
04-06-2007, 08:31 PM
maybe he actually likes working as k's righthand man and has no interest in being a head coach while waiting for the baton to pass to him. he certainly comes across as someone who is very happy with his current situation. some people actually value happiness more than money.

Dukie8 - Outstanding post! There are many things in life more important than money. Happiness is at the top of the list.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

houstondukie
04-06-2007, 08:45 PM
Who said anything about money? Coach Dawkins does seem happy at Duke but I would also think that he has dreams and ambitions of being the head coach of a national championship team. If he does take over for Coach K one day, he will most definately have that chance, but he would have to potentially wait a long long time before K steps down.

Patrick Yates
04-06-2007, 08:49 PM
How bout our next head coach is someone with actual head coaching experience? Maybe even a successful head coach?

How many Head Coaches with no previous head coaching experience have ever been successful when they merely inherit a program.

Look at Guthridge. No prior HC experience. Yes, he went to 2 final fours in 3 years. But, the first year it was with kids recruited entirely by Dean. The Second time, they were an 8 seed that surprised Stanford in the Second round, and most of the stars on that team were deans kids, with the Exception of that one kid whose name I can't remember who went pro too soon and disappeard. When he bailed, the team disintegrated due to what everyone widely acknowledged where Guts recruiting mistakes. Roy won with Dough's kids, remember, and Dough lost with Guts kids. Ironicle.

UCLA. The guy after Wooden won an NC with Wooden's recruits, and then donezo.

Maybe Dawk would be a good head coach. Maybe not. I would feel a lot better about handing the program to Dawk if K's two most high profile assistants to head coaches had not crashed and burned.

Quin was a disaster, no ifs, ands, or buts.

Amaker, while not a disaster, underwhelmed at a university where he was given ample chance to succeed. Yes, they were on probation when he got there, but that was forever ago, and he has failed to make the NCAAs with NCAA talent.

Capel is doing OK, but he was not an assistant under K, and would probably only come back if Duke tracked down every kid that booed him and made each boo-bird beg on bended knee for his services.

The Guy at Notre Dame, Brey, is not blowing wind up anyone's kilt. Not bad, not great. Slightly above mediocre.

Based on these guys, we are supposed to be exited about Dawkins without ever having seen him coach?

Danger Will Robinson! Danger!

Patrick Yates

juise
04-06-2007, 08:57 PM
How many Head Coaches with no previous head coaching experience have ever been successful when they merely inherit a program.

Just off the top of my head, Jamie Dixon (Pitt.) and Sean Miller (Xavier) come to mind. I'm sure there are more.

Duke15304
04-06-2007, 09:04 PM
dixon has been really good, i would wait on miller, matta hasnt been gone that long yet so i would wait to judge on him

juise
04-06-2007, 09:13 PM
dixon has been really good, i would wait on miller, matta hasnt been gone that long yet so i would wait to judge on him

Fair enough. How about Chris Lowery (3 years at Southern Illinois)?

Duke15304
04-06-2007, 09:26 PM
its somewhat debatable on that one....yea hes only been three yrs, but painter was only there 1 before, so there was alot of turnover, 3 coaches in 3 yrs so i think hes a pretty good coach, miller might be as well, i just say give him more time

Bob Green
04-06-2007, 09:35 PM
How bout our next head coach is someone with actual head coaching experience? Maybe even a successful head coach?

How many Head Coaches with no previous head coaching experience have ever been successful when they merely inherit a program.

UCLA. The guy after Wooden won an NC with Wooden's recruits, and then donezo.

Patrick Yates

Gene Bartow followed John Wooden at UCLA and he did not win a NC. However, he had plenty of Head Coaching experience prior to his UCLA gig, including taking the Memphis Tigers to the National Championship game in 1973 (where he lost to John Wooden's UCLA Bruins).

Previous Head Coaching experience is nice but no guarantee of success.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

jimsumner
04-06-2007, 10:11 PM
FWIW, Mike Brey was Big East Coach of the Year this season.

FWIW2, Everett Case, Dean Smith, and Vic Bubas had never been a college head coach before taking over at NCSU, UNC, and Duke respectively.

Roy Williams' first job was at a Kansas, coming off probation.

Steve Spurrier's first college head-coaching position was at Duke. That seemed to work.

Tom Izzo was promoted from assistant to head coach at MSU.

College-sports history is full of coaches who were successful in their first head-coaching position.

JasonEvans
04-06-2007, 11:24 PM
FWIW, Mike Brey was Big East Coach of the Year this season.

FWIW2, Everett Case, Dean Smith, and Vic Bubas had never been a college head coach before taking over at NCSU, UNC, and Duke respectively.

Roy Williams' first job was at a Kansas, coming off probation.

Steve Spurrier's first college head-coaching position was at Duke. That seemed to work.

Tom Izzo was promoted from assistant to head coach at MSU.

College-sports history is full of coaches who were successful in their first head-coaching position.

A curse upon you Jim!! I was all ready to pull out Izzo and Roy and you posted first!

As for a coach needing big-time experience-- you folks are aware that K coached a grand total of 5 years at Army before getting the Duke job, right? He was 23-28 in his final 2 years there.

-Jason "I think we have quite a while to worry about this one-- a decade I suspect" Evans

JasonEvans
04-06-2007, 11:32 PM
There are many things in life more important than money. Happiness is at the top of the list.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

I might add that Johnny made close to $13 million dollars during his time in the NBA (and probably had some decent endorsement money as well). He played in the league long enough so that he is likely looking at a pretty decent pension as well.

Oh, and I believe he is one of the best-paid assistant coaches in all of college basketball (wasn't it revealed recently that Coach G made less than Johnny?).

Johnny reportedly loves Durham and is quite happy in his job. He has no desire to be a head coach right now. If he did, I am sure he would get a fair number of offers.

I won't be at all shocked if JD retires when K does. The assumption that JD will take over the program is far from a done deal in my mind.

-Jason "and what is with the implication that Capel is on bad terms with Duke?!?!?" Evans

YmoBeThere
04-06-2007, 11:32 PM
with the Exception of that one kid whose name I can't remember who went pro too soon and disappeard. When he bailed, the team disintegrated due to what everyone widely acknowledged where Guts recruiting mistakes.
Patrick Yates

I think Joseph Forte is the name you are looking for. I always thought Guthridge was just warming the seat until they could convince a more charismatic choice to show up. Fortunately for us, that turned out to be Matt Doherty.

Exiled_Devil
04-07-2007, 12:31 AM
I won't be at all shocked if JD retires when K does. The assumption that JD will take over the program is far from a done deal in my mind.



I'm right there with you Jason.

I've been lucky enough to chat with Johnny a few times and he seems very content. Something gave me the impression he likes being K's right hand man and doesn't want a head coach position -> here or elsewhere

Exiled

Bob Green
04-07-2007, 04:12 AM
Oh, and I believe he is one of the best-paid assistant coaches in all of college basketball (wasn't it revealed recently that Coach G made less than Johnny?).



Jason - you are correct as usual. I didn't mean to imply that JD wasn't adequately compensated for his current position. And, from my perspective, JD is worth every cent he is paid.

Bob Green
Yokosuka, Japan

hurleyfor3
04-09-2007, 07:30 PM
That's the University of South Alabama. In Mobile, birthplace of Tony Lang.

Apparently being mentioned as a possible successor to Johnny Pelphrey.

watzone
04-09-2007, 07:31 PM
Wojo turned down Utah, so I doubt he has any interest in South Alabama.

hurleyfor3
04-09-2007, 07:33 PM
Fair point. When was that, this year? Is he waiting for a really big fish or does he just want to stay at Duke?

Cameron
04-09-2007, 08:28 PM
^^Wojo certainly loves it at Duke, there is no question about that, but, if he does have aspirations of becoming a head coach one day, he will be taking one of these openings in the near future. Because, in my opinion, if anyone in the current Duke family is taking over the program when K leaves, it is Chris Collins. With that said, however, I don't think he takes the South Alabama job. I agree with watzone, if he tunred down Utah, then it wouldn't make much sense if Wojo signed with USA.

As for the Chris Collins possibility, Would anyone here like to see this happen? Say, after another five or six years learning from the legend? Chris is certainly passionate and devout enough to handle a head coaching job in Division I, but could he work in Durham? I think this will be an interesting question a few years down the road from now.

Clipsfan
04-09-2007, 08:35 PM
^^Wojo certainly loves it at Duke, there is no question about that, but, if he does have aspirations of becoming a head coach one day, he will be taking one of these openings in the near future. Because, in my opinion, if anyone in the current Duke family is taking over the program when K leaves, it is Chris Collins. With that said, however, I don't think he takes the South Alabama job. I agree with watzone, if he tunred down Utah, then it wouldn't make much sense if Wojo signed with USA.

As for the Chris Collins possibility, Would anyone here like to see this happen? Say, after another five or six years learning from the legend? Chris is certainly passionate and devout enough to handle a head coaching job in Division I, but could he work in Durham? I think this will be an interesting question a few years down the road from now.

I've always thought that Dawkins was the heir apparent? Why are you discounting/forgetting about him?

wojcol
04-09-2007, 08:57 PM
I think both of these guys will make great head coaches.

77devil
04-09-2007, 08:58 PM
Because, in my opinion, if anyone in the current Duke family is taking over the program when K leaves, it is Chris Collins.

Your joking, right? :eek:

Duke15304
04-09-2007, 09:27 PM
in the long run, it might be better they go and be successful at another job and then bring them back after K, but at the same time, none of our guys have been great, but i think our staff now has a chance to really be succesful

Lord Ash
04-09-2007, 10:06 PM
I will say this, Coach Collins is a coach's son of a highly regarded coach, and I have faith he will be an excellent coach.

kydevil
04-09-2007, 10:12 PM
in the long run, it might be better they go and be successful at another job and then bring them back after K, but at the same time, none of our guys have been great, but i think our staff now has a chance to really be succesful

I agree, I think before any assistant was to be hired they would have to go prove themselves elsewhere to show they can handle all the pressures of head coaching...

Cameron
04-09-2007, 11:01 PM
I've always thought that Dawkins was the heir apparent? Why are you discounting/forgetting about him?


Because Johnny has said on numerous occassions over the years that he does not want the job. And, this has also been backed up by those very close to the program many times before.


Your joking, right?

Well, considering if Dawkins really does not want the job, and I don't think he does, then, no, I am not joking. In six or seven years from now, when Coach K steps away from the program, I think Chris would be THE choice from the Duke family. Quin has already blown that chance, and I'm not sure we'd really want Amaker or Brey taking over the reigns. Wojo is the only other truly concievable choice, but I think Chris would be the better head guy. Just my opinion.

With that said, however, we will hire a coach outside the family.

JasonEvans
04-09-2007, 11:38 PM
In six or seven years from now, when Coach K steps away from the program, I think Chris would be THE choice from the Duke family. Quin has already blown that chance, and I'm not sure we'd really want Amaker or Brey taking over the reigns. Wojo is the only other truly concievable choice, but I think Chris would be the better head guy. Just my opinion.

With that said, however, we will hire a coach outside the family.

1) I think it is a little more than 6 or 7 years away. Coach K just turned 60 back in February. Lute Olsen is 72. Jim Calhoun is 64 and is nowhere near retirment. Bobby Knight is 67.

K is 105 wins behind Bobby Knight, which is 4 pretty good seasons of wins. While K may not talk about it, I think he probably would not mind retiring with the all-time win record. So, once Knight retires, figure you can start counting K down at that point. I know it is just an arbitrary number, but I suspect K will coach until he is 70.

2) I don't think Duke will confine its search to only guys who have been part of the program and coached under K. I am sure K would like it to go to someone who loves the program almost as much as he does, but I think he and whoever else is involved in the search will want to find the best person for the job-- the best person to lead Duke into the future.

3) That said, I suspect they will look first to guys who are close to the Duke program. In this regard, I'll be interested in seeing how Jeff Capel does at Oklahoma. He and Brey are the only K offspring who have big-time coaching jobs right now. I like what Capel did at ODU and his first season at Oklahoma was better than most folks expected. He needs to show some real recruiting chops, but the future looks bright for him.

4) If K is, as I suspect, closer to a decade away, then we will have a ton more info upon which to base this decision. I still think there could be a former player who could emerge as NBA careers begin to wind down. Grant Hill and Shane Battier both strike me as guys who could be remarkable coaches someday.

-Jason

gep
04-09-2007, 11:57 PM
Because Johnny has said on numerous occassions over the years that he does not want the job. And, this has also been backed up by those very close to the program many times before.

Also, in another thread, some posted their thoughts that Dawkins was happy in his position, and that Dawkins would probably retire *along with* Coach K when the day comes...

watzone
04-10-2007, 12:19 AM
I have never heard JD say he didn't want the job. I don't think he would be the Associate HC if he didn't. One thing is certain, we have great staff. Wojo may be the man one day and CC has matured into a fine prospect. If JD has said he doesn't want the job, I'd love to see that link.

dukestheheat
04-10-2007, 08:56 AM
Patrick Yates, et. al.,

Here's my take on Dawkins as head coach for Duke and how it might play out.

First of all, I do believe that Duke's next coach (and folks, when K announces that he's retiring, I'm taking a month off of work and going on Prozac) will have head coaching experience, and I agree with you Patrick that the assistants under K, given head coaching opportunities, have not fared well (except Capel). And, head coaching experience is going to be a necessity for Duke basketball, given that this is such a high-profile job.

That said, I bet that when Dawkins leaves Duke to take a head coaching job somewhere out there, the tea leaves are then showing K tipping his hand at an imminent retirement date. In other words, he'll get Johnny out there to get that head coaching experience with the action plan in place to get him back to Duke when K finally calls it quits, and Dawkins has five years under his belt out there somewhere.

just a gut feeling, or opinion, and again, you know what they say about opinions and gut feelings.

dth.

duke98
04-10-2007, 10:22 AM
Let's not forget, Jeff Capel recruited the players on the VCU team that beat us in the tournament this year. Ok, maybe we can forget the game...but don't forget the success he's had so far. If he can dig out from under the mess that Kelvin Sampson left at Oklahoma -- and someday, someone's gotta explain to me how a coach can rack up violations like that and just leave scot-free -- I expect him to be one of the top coaches in the nation ten years from now. He's the son of a coach AND has the benefit of playing for one of the greatest coaches of all time -- how can you go wrong with that combination?

Also, I think any suggestion that Jeff bears a grudge against Duke is wildly exaggerated. I was at the infamous "boo game" and unless my memory is playing tricks on me, to describe it as a "boo" is going overboard -- it was more of a collective sigh or grumble. Those were frustrating times, and the incident in question was more a combination of frustrated sounds than the outright booing you sometimes hear in, say, the Dean Dome. ;)

feldspar
04-10-2007, 10:33 AM
4) If K is, as I suspect, closer to a decade away, then we will have a ton more info upon which to base this decision. I still think there could be a former player who could emerge as NBA careers begin to wind down. Grant Hill and Shane Battier both strike me as guys who could be remarkable coaches someday.

Perhaps Grant, but I suspect it will be hard for Shane to coach the Duke team from the Oval Office.

BlueDevilBaby
04-10-2007, 11:11 AM
Perhaps Grant, but I suspect it will be hard for Shane to coach the Duke team from the Oval Office.

If anybody could do it, he could.

dukeisawesome
04-10-2007, 01:32 PM
If JJ doesn't start getting minutes, he might wind up coaching Duke. I am half-serious about this. While I think JJ can do well in the NBA, one never knows and its certainly conceivable he doesn't get a 2nd contract since Orlando isn't really giving him minutes.

I think the job is Dawkins though if he wants it. Wojo and Collins are likely to take head coaching jobs elsewhere IMO as it seems they both would like to be a head coach one day and it'd then be a gamble to wait it out at Duke so long.

Just noticed somebody mentioned Grant and Shane. Grant is way too laid back to be a head coach IMO. I don't think he wants the stress in any way, shape, or form. Shane is a more likely prospect, very interesting. It's usually always the guards that coach, but Shane certainly seems like he'd do a good job so who knows.

prefan21
04-10-2007, 02:46 PM
I could sleep peacefully at night knowing Shane Battier would be Duke's next head coach.

Olympic Fan
04-10-2007, 04:41 PM
I can't believe some of the things I'm reading on this thread. Have I been living in an alternate reality or have you guys?

In the first place, I've NEVER heard or seen quoted anything about Dawkins not wanting the job when K steps down. I have heard him say on numerous occasions that he wouldn't leave Duke for another head job. I know Georgetown wanted him very badly when they ended up hiring John Thompson III.

On the other hand, last summer during his annual meeting with the press, Coach K told reporters than if he has any input on his successor, he'd recommend Johnny D.

I thought everybody knew Johnny was K's heir apparent. Obviously, a lot could change, depending on how long K coaches (which I suspect will be as long as his health holds out), but as it now stands, it's going to be Dawkins.

SmartDevil
04-10-2007, 07:16 PM
I think K's retirement is a long time away.

Agree with those who think his eventual successor MUST have a prior track record as a head coach.

Plenty of time for all the names mentioned to acquire that experience. Personally, though, I don't think Johnny wants the Duke job (and not sure he wants to be a head coach anywhere.)

I think Grant Hill and Shane Battier would probably be very capable college head coaches post-NBA but who knows if they want to do it either? They'll have a ton of non-coaching opportunities open to them.

watzone
04-11-2007, 09:44 AM
I think K's retirement is a long time away.

Agree with those who think his eventual successor MUST have a prior track record as a head coach.

Plenty of time for all the names mentioned to acquire that experience. Personally, though, I don't think Johnny wants the Duke job (and not sure he wants to be a head coach anywhere.)

I think Grant Hill and Shane Battier would probably be very capable college head coaches post-NBA but who knows if they want to do it either? They'll have a ton of non-coaching opportunities open to them.

Have I earned some cred over here yet? The time was a year ago. I asked Johnny, "tell me something, do you want the head coaching job when K leaves?" Johnny said, "what do you think?" as if it were a dumb question.

Once and for all, he is the Associate Head Coach of Duke Basketball. If K goes down for any reason, Johnny takes over. Let me go further .. more personal.

Coach Gaudet took over in 95 when K had back surgery. Pete and I had met at a Sports Card show. It didn't take him long to realize how big a Duke fan I was. He was a wondeful man, kind, caring and faithful to Duke.

However, when it came time to feel the gap, Pete failed. He sat a little too still and lost the team that year. Sure, it wasn't all his fault, but it was his turn ... he was second in command and depended upon to keep the ship afloat.

He was let go and it saddened me, but I sorta understood. Coach K is not about to let that happen again. That is why he has groomed Johnny at every turn, preparing him to take the reigns should something happen.

True, JD is a family man and doesn't hit the road recruiting that much, but his kids are almost grown now and look for things to change a bit. Keep in mind though, when JD goes on a visit or gets involved, he is prepared ... a trump card of sorts. Many Duke palyers are here because of him, Gerald Henderson for one.

So, enough already unless you have some facts. It doesn't take a lot of studying to se that after Mike Brey, all coaches are from the Duke family. That will always be the case as long as K is here and Duke listens to him in retirement.

Which Dukie takes over will have Dukies around him ... it IS a family thing.

That said, I hate the who will take over threads that waste fans time. K is here, go with it. Enjoy the here and now and let things run their course knowing he is in charge and that he runs a tight ship where everybody knows their duty.

To say, Johnny Dawkins isn't the heir apparant means you are not paying attention or you haven't been around since say the late eighties. As Olympic fan more or less said, it this Bizzaro World?

Let me end this by saying I have love for Wojo and Collins too and would feel comfortable with them in any position with Duke Basketball.

langdonfan
04-11-2007, 10:58 AM
Tim O'Toole and Mike Jarvis, Jr. (although I don't think Jarvis was officially an "assistant coach") both came after Mike Brey and I don't believe either was a former Duke athlete.

Speaking of assistants who didn't play for Duke, does anyone think there will be a spot on the Duke sideline for Chris Spatola (Coach K's son-in-law) when he is ready? He has said publicly he wants to be a coach when he is done serving in the Army.

watzone
04-11-2007, 03:50 PM
Tim O'Toole and Mike Jarvis, Jr. (although I don't think Jarvis was officially an "assistant coach") both came after Mike Brey and I don't believe either was a former Duke athlete.

Speaking of assistants who didn't play for Duke, does anyone think there will be a spot on the Duke sideline for Chris Spatola (Coach K's son-in-law) when he is ready? He has said publicly he wants to be a coach when he is done serving in the Army.

O'Toole yes. He use to attend K's Duke Camps as a kid. Jarvis was not an assistant coach. Some say Spatola is somewhere on the list.

My point was that it has been since the ninties.

Exiled_Devil
04-11-2007, 04:37 PM
Have I earned some cred over here yet? The time was a year ago. I asked Johnny, "tell me something, do you want the head coaching job when K leaves?" Johnny said, "what do you think?" as if it were a dumb question.

You have credibility for me, Wat.

I think my earlier post may be contributing to people's thoughts of JD as not being the Heir. I did get the impression that he is not going to work anywhere but Durham, and that if he does become HC at any school, it will be Duke. I think maybe the impression I got from him about not being K's replacement was from years ago -99 or 00 - and he may have just been deferential and not looking too far into the future at that time.

Here's to many more years of JD at Duke.

exiled