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View Full Version : MBB: Duke vs. St. Johns Pre and In-game Thread



Hancock 4 Duke
02-17-2009, 03:12 PM
How will we answer to our back-to-back losses? I think this is a time to redeem ourselves!

DukeCO2009
02-17-2009, 03:29 PM
As I said in another thread, I've had it up to here with the "Next Play" rhetoric. Time to put up or shut up: let's turn this ship around. While it's true that we can't let our mistakes bog us down, we also can't gloss over them. A lot of the same problems that killed us in the second half of the chapel hill game also surfaced against BC:

1) Poor defensive positioning, especially rotating to help out our guards when they get beat off the dribble

2) Our guards have made bad decisions with the ball between the half-court line and three-point line. Turnovers here almost invariably lead directly to a duece for the other team. We're playing scared out there in no-man's land--failing to square to the basket, making weak passes, and getting trapped in the corners.

3) A lot of the guys appear to have been wearing down in the second half. I really think K needs to gives Miles, Elliot, and maybe even Marty some first half PT so the team has fresher late-game legs. Wouldn't mind seeing either of those guys get quality second half minutes, either.

4) We're becoming overly reliant on G and Kyle. No question that they're great players, but even if they both get 20 Duke is no cinch to win. We need another 13-15 point scorer out of Scheyer/Nolan/Greg, and the two who don't step up need to connect for 5+, too.

JDev
02-17-2009, 04:04 PM
I haven't watched St. Johns play, but they seem to be a weaker opponent than virtually every ACC team. They seemingly prefer to play slow, as they only average 66 ppg. They have played some ACC competition, losing to BC, VT, and Miami all by double digits. I should be a good time for Duke to find themselves a little bit before a very difficult ACC stretch run. I expect to see Duke play more guys, going to the bench early and often. I also expect to see a re-commitment on the defensive end. Coach K made some recent comments about losing some intensity and focus on the defensive end, and also letting some offensive struggles change that defensive focus. That will probably be the main talking point prior to this game. I am not counting this as a guaranteed win by any means, but the break from the monotony and difficulty of the ACC might be a very good thing. This is a good opportunity to regroup and refocus, and get back to doing the things that optimise your abilities.
I wouldn't mind seeing Duke play faster. I don't mean UNC up-and-down the floor type style, but making more of an effort to push the ball off of rebounds and turnovers. In the current 2-4 stretch it seems that Duke has gotten far fewer runouts and easy buckets. They seem to secure a rebound and then methodically go up the floor. This is as good a rebounding team as Duke has had in a while, and I would love to see them use that to ignite a few more fast breaks. That used to be a way that Duke broke teams' backs. This team should have the personnel to play faster. The addition of easy buckets changes every aspect of the game, in a good way for the scoring team and the opposite for the opponent. I know it is easier said then done, but I would like to see an effort in that department.

whereinthehellami
02-17-2009, 04:42 PM
Here are some stats that jumped out to me about St. Johns:


They have lost 4 in a row, each by at least 10 points.


SJU is shooting 31% from 3 versus 33% from Duke.


SJU is shooting 43% from 2 versus 45% from Duke.


SJU is shooting 64% from the FT versus 72% from Duke.


SJU has 10 guys who play more than 10 MPG, though 4 of those play over 30 MPG. Duke has 9 guys playing more than 10 MPG, with only 2 playing over 30 MPG.


SJU averages 12.5 assists to 14.7 TOs a game. Duke averages 14.2 assists per game to 12.5 TOs/game.


Six Johnies average over 2 TOs/game, Duke has 2.


St. John's opponents have scored ~ 100 more points in the second half than they have scored in the first half (881 to 788).

moonpie23
02-17-2009, 06:24 PM
i'm sure it's been hashed out on other threads once in a while, but, i can't help getting the feeling that this team has a trend to play "not to lose" at some very tight points in some of the games.


when i look at UNC (ugh) and some of the other elite teams, to me it seems as though even when the game gets close, they continue with their game plan, rather than tightening up...

i would love to see duke come out strong, roll a team back and keep their foot on the gas till the :00

Chard
02-17-2009, 07:42 PM
As I said in another thread, I've had it up to here with the "Next Play" rhetoric. Time to put up or shut up: let's turn this ship around.

With all due respect I think the "next play" mentality is exactly what this team needs. They just need to play and not let the past few games hang over their heads. The lessons they've learned should be remembered but worrying about bad plays during a game should be discouraged. No more hanging heads or slapping hands in frustration over a missed shot or "bad" foul. I think some have lost focus especially during game play. Lance Thomas is doing a good job of mustering the troops. I hope he is setting an example that the others can follow.

I understand what you're getting at about the constant "next play" rhetoric. I don't think you can say that in relation to an entire game. It is better to apply that thought process when you are playing. The team really does need to focus on what's in front of them; the next play.

I'm all drugged up on Vicodin after sinus surgery today so I hope I make sense and my bad grammar doesn't take away from my point.

geraldsneighbor
02-17-2009, 09:51 PM
A trip to the friendly confines of Durham North is just what the doctor ordered. They can go back and relive the success they had in November in the same building. Then, come home to beat Wake on Sunday.

omar
02-18-2009, 10:04 AM
K has put his best players on the court during the recent swoon and the results are obvious. I view the game v. St Johns as a dress rehearsal for Wake. What's the game plan coach. What's the in-game adjustment(s) when scorers and/or players don't achieve. Use the resources that you recruited. How come Miami was so successful in their use of the zone against UNC?

bjornolf
02-18-2009, 10:16 AM
Some of the guys just look tired (both physically and mentally) out there to me. ACC games just beat you up, plain and simple, especially this year. It's funny, we used to talk about how ridiculously physical some of the other conferences were, but I think the ACC is pretty much there now.

I said guys looked tired to me a few games ago and was shouted down, but I'm seeing more people mention it now. In particular, Scheyer and Singler just seem tired to me. Especially when they start missing shots and free throws consistently short in the last 15 minutes or so of games. I wonder if it would be smart to play Plumlee and Williams more against SJU and let some of the guys, particularly Jon and Kyle, get some rest. I don't like the idea of letting games go, and I think we should still beat SJU, but would it be worth it to lose a game or two more now in order to be rested headed into the tourneys? Maybe not. I know our guys are tough and will gut it out, and that K has always shortened the bench as the season gets late, but some of these guys just look exhausted to me. Maybe a few of them need a little break. JMHO.

jipops
02-18-2009, 10:33 AM
St. Johns is most likely not as talented as recent teams we've faced. This would be a good time to come out loose but with the mentality of stomping on their throats. This is not meant to be classless in any way, but it was the lack of that mentality that hurt Duke at the end of the 1st half vs BC and was the ultimate demise in that game. Our guys need that mentality and edge back. This would be a good place to start.

UrinalCake
02-18-2009, 10:41 AM
I don't necessarily agree that the team is tired. I think losing makes you look tired. No one thought we were tired in the second half of the Miami game, and if we beat St. Johns by 30, the team will probably appear very energized even if the starters play all 40 minutes. Certainly within a game a player will fatigue, but I don't think this will effect the overall "freshness" of the key players in March.

bjornolf
02-18-2009, 10:59 AM
I don't necessarily agree that the team is tired. I think losing makes you look tired. No one thought we were tired in the second half of the Miami game, and if we beat St. Johns by 30, the team will probably appear very energized even if the starters play all 40 minutes. Certainly within a game a player will fatigue, but I don't think this will effect the overall "freshness" of the key players in March.

Um, I thought a few people looked tired during the Miami game, but I didn't bother posting it cause we won and I'd been shouted down for saying it three games before that. And I never said the team looked tired. I said a few players looked tired, Scheyer and Singler particularly. Maybe they're just dehydrated. Kyle sweats a lot. Maybe he needs to just drink more gatorade and water during timeouts. In one of the recent losses he CLANKED two free throws in a row, barely drawing front iron, late. That's tired to me. Like I said, it's just my opinion. Scheyer looks almost more mentally fatigued than physically tired to me. I'm just thinking that if we're as much better than SJU as people think we are, maybe those guys could rest for a game? A few days off for an athlete can make a world of difference. There are NBA players that take a game or two off here and there to rest up for the playoffs. Why can't our guys do the same?

allenmurray
02-18-2009, 11:12 AM
Maybe he needs to just drink more gatorade during timeouts.

What is this Gatoradeyou speak of?

http://www.slate.com/id/2211282/

bjornolf
02-18-2009, 11:26 AM
Hey, now, don't misquote me. I said gatorade OR WATER. (I actually prefer water when playing...maybe THAT'S why I suck. NOT!). ;)

moonpie23
02-18-2009, 11:28 AM
i have a tough time with the concept of the players being "tired"....Bobby Knight was doing a show recently when the subject of players being "tired" came up and he said:(paraphrasing) "they're 20 yrs old, they should be in good enough shape to play 40 mins of basketball. Maybe they should go to bed earlier".


Wouldn't the coaching staff schedule these guys in all areas of being physically prepared (diet, training, scheduling, schoolwork, workouts, practices, etc?)


for me, when i look at the guys, it's more of a look of frustration....

KyDevilinIL
02-18-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm sure I'm saying nothing new here, but I firmly believe it's all mental with these guys. There's no logical reason why a team could play so well and win so many games – often against very good competition – for two-thirds of a season, then suddenly seem to lose every bit of that mojo – except that they took a hit in their confidence against Wake, then found themselves scrambling to get back into a rhythm against the toughest stretch of the schedule to date.

I hate, hate, hate the fact that we still play this St. John's game at this point in the season, but maybe it's a blessing this year. Get out of the ACC grind, find some footing and take it to Wake at home on Sunday. Best case scenario, that fixes some of our ills for the final push.

But I won't put too much stock in Thursday's result, anyway. This is essentially an exhibition game, and a wide margin of victory won't indicate that this team is "back." It's a fairly small step toward what is hopefully a second life for these guys.

ncexnyc
02-18-2009, 11:45 AM
Tired? How come we're the only team that is tired at this point in the season? Wouldn't the other ACC teams we compete against be just as tired at this point in the season? Remember, as someone told me in another thread we are using an 8 man rotation and in some games a 9 man rotation.

I also don't understand all this talk about beating up on a cupcake, which St Johns is supposed to be. We gave Maryland and Virginia a serious beating and I am not sure there was a positive carryover after those games.

Brian looked great against Maryland and Nolan was very good in both of those games, but I really can't say those games helped turn either one of those players around.

To be honest the only player who's had the proverbial light bulb turn on appears to be Lance and that was during the disaster at Clemson.

Can the game tomorrow be a turning point for this team? Most certainly, but only if they take some lessons learned away and put them to future use.

UrinalCake
02-18-2009, 12:00 PM
I also don't feel like playing 30 minutes instead of 35 has a significant impact on a player "wearing down" over the long haul. Yes, it affects the player's performance during those extra five minutes of that game, but I don't think it affects him four weeks from now. Why rest a player during the game in order to have a "day off"? Why not rest him the next day, or have an easier practice? I would guess that practice is much more physically strenous on a player than an actual game. Mental strain is another matter entirely, but again I think the way to ease mental strain is to keep winning games, and that would not be accomplished by playing our bench guys more minutes unfortunately.

Also, I'm sure our coaching staff is familiar with both Gatorade and water. Perhaps a positive way of looking at the situation would be this: we're going to need these guys to be playing heavy minutes in March. So the games they're playing now are good preparation for learning how to play tired.

bjornolf
02-18-2009, 12:30 PM
Also, I'm sure our coaching staff is familiar with both Gatorade and water.

Of course our coaching staff knows about hydration, but they can't watch every player every minute and force them to hydrate. How many times do you see a guy sucking wind and sweating all over the place running off the court, sitting down, and waving away the cup the manager offers them? I've seen Kyle do it a lot too. I don't have an issue with the coaches here. It's up to the players in 99% of cases to make sure they're hydrating. And lack of hydration hurts you down the road more than in the minute.

Look at the NYG. During training camp they weigh their players before and after practice, and they're required to drink enough water to replace the fluids they lost.

Chronic dehydration is a serious problem for many athletes, even the best. And it can lead to serious problems beyond just cramping. It can result in affected vision, impaired mental capacity, inability to make proper decisions quickly, inability of muscle and nerve fibers to fire properly, etc. etc. Maybe they are hydrating properly, I don't know. The camera didn't follow enough for me to see, but I don't think I ever saw him drinking when it did show him during timeouts and stuff during that UNC game for example. Maybe somebody who goes to games can tell us. Did Kyle drink at least one full cup of fluid EVERY time he came off the court during that steambath of a UNC game? Cause if he didn't, with the minutes he played and the way he was sweating, then he was severely dehydrated in the last five minutes of that game.

I studied this for a year. It was one of my BME projects at Duke.

UConnJack
02-18-2009, 12:43 PM
While I would love to see St John's take Duke down, I don't think you have much to worry about. Duke may be having some problems, but they are by far the superior team in this matchup. They may cause Duke some problems here and there, especially playing at MSG, but you can probably check the win column on this one.

bjornolf
02-18-2009, 12:52 PM
Oh, and one more note on dehydration. I played football at Duke. I wasn't a starter, I was a scout teamer that nobody ever heard of. However, other than to say "It's hot out there, make sure you drink enough", I never heard a coach or staffer address hydration or teach anyone just how much fluid it took to stay hydrated when playing a sport in the heat (A LOT). Maybe they (and the basketball staff) are more involved in that process now, I don't know. But I never took hydration seriously until I threw up and almost passed out at a practice. That's when I did the project I mentioned, and I was shocked at what I learned. Since then, I've tried to keep myself hydrated whenever I'm active, even when it's just planting a tree outside in the summer.

Dehydration is cumulative. If the guys aren't drinking enough after practice AND aren't drinking enough before, during, and after games, then the problem just multiplies. Just because you're in GREAT shape and are "used" to playing in the hot and steamy confines of Cameron doesn't mean you can be 100% effective if you get dehydrated.

Fish80
02-18-2009, 01:10 PM
I haven't noticed Kyle cramping up at all. Isn't cramping a symptom of dehydration?

As I recall, Battier used to drink 64 ounces of Gatorade before each game and then not drink during the games. Perhaps Kyle follows a similar hydration routine.

bjornolf
02-18-2009, 01:25 PM
Cramping is definitely a symptom of dehydration. However, just like any medical condition, every person doesn't display every symptom. I didn't cramped up once in the days leading up to the incident where I tossed my cookies and collapsed. I don't think that Minnesota Viking player cramped up before he collapsed and died. Cramping tends to occur when you have short term, sudden dehydration, like DURING a game. Chronic, long-term dehydration tends NOT to produce cramping as the muscles will adjust.

Like I said, dehydration might not be it at all. I'm just saying it's a possibity, and it would explain a lot of the problems some of these guys seem to be having. Further, in that UNC game for example, 64 ounces of gatorade wouldn't even come CLOSE to how much fluid a guy his size playing the minutes he did would need. Kyle probably would have used up 64 in the first HALF of that game if he played more than 15 minutes of that half.

Johnny Jungle
02-18-2009, 02:35 PM
Well its that time of year again. I thought I'd share with you guys again the St. John's perspective with our preview and analysis on the game. Always curious as to your thoughts on the game.

www.johnnyjungle.com/CBTS021909


Also if you want to hear from our fans this is our forum

www.johnnyjungle.com/forum (server is updating so its down right now for a short period of time)

I'll check back to get some more dicussion on the game.

weezie
02-18-2009, 03:14 PM
If anyone is planning on going to the game, is there a decent bar near MSG where a Dukie could have some pre-game refreshments?

I'd hate to get dehydrated!

Chard
02-18-2009, 07:03 PM
St. Johns is most likely not as talented as recent teams we've faced. This would be a good time to come out loose but with the mentality of stomping on their throats. This is not meant to be classless in any way, but it was the lack of that mentality that hurt Duke at the end of the 1st half vs BC and was the ultimate demise in that game. Our guys need that mentality and edge back. This would be a good place to start.

Actually, it was the over reliance on the three point shot at the end of the half. Duke missed five straight to end the half. Clang, clang, clang, clang and clang. Duke had been doing a great job of attacking the basket in the first half.

I think an extended use of the bench should have been continued throughout the season. It is not like the bench hasn't been used; just not as much as could have been beneficial to the entire team over the course of the season. Starters could have that extra bit of rest, bench players and more importantly the freshmen could have been better acclimated to the college game and coaches and players could have more confidence in the bench. We're not talking 10 - 15 minutes of playing time. Just some spot duty in every game to keep the main 7-8 fresher. I finally had a chance to watch the first half of the BC game today. I just can't see asking the starters to press, play man-to-man and play at maximum effort and then ask them to hit jump shots at the end of games. Those shots didn't fall at the end of the UNC game and they didn't fall at the end of both halves of the BC game. Duke had wide open looks at the end of those games, they just didn't fall. Overall, I'm amazed at the level of play that Duke is maintaining. It is no easy task to go on the road and compete like they have at Wake, Clemson and BC. If they could hit a few more open shots during those dry spells in the UNC and BC games and I think we're singing a different tune today. With a little extra rest during a game like they've been through lately and I think they do hit those open shots.

This is just my theory and I claim no expertise regarding Duke basketball. I only see what I see on TV and that is a limited perspective. The coaches may be working on things that we don't see or aren't aware of. I'm seeing a team that is putting forth great effort and still learning to play together. Hopefully they aren't going into another late season swoon that has characterized the past few years. This team feels much more mature. They shouldn't be too forlorn over the results of the past few games. A tough stretch can provide great learning experiences and toughness. The ACC is very good this year so it is not like they are getting beat by mediocre teams. My opinion is that the entire team needs to contribute otherwise the 7-8 man rotation is going to wear down. I hope the coaches can begin to see that. I've seen some signs of a reemerging bench in the past few games beginning with Clemson but to me that was too late in the season to come back to it. Maybe we'll see the same game plan that we saw in last year's ACC tournament with a much more robust rotation. I submit that at that point it may be too late.

MChambers
02-18-2009, 08:46 PM
Well its that time of year again. I thought I'd share with you guys again the St. John's perspective with our preview and analysis on the game. Always curious as to your thoughts on the game.

www.johnnyjungle.com/CBTS021909


Also if you want to hear from our fans this is our forum

www.johnnyjungle.com/forum (server is updating so its down right now for a short period of time)

I'll check back to get some more dicussion on the game.

And welcome back. Glad you are here.

gofurman
02-18-2009, 10:55 PM
Um, I thought a few people looked tired during the Miami game, but I didn't bother posting it cause we won and I'd been shouted down for saying it three games before that. And I never said the team looked tired. I said a few players looked tired, Scheyer and Singler particularly. Maybe they're just dehydrated. Kyle sweats a lot. Maybe he needs to just drink more gatorade and water during timeouts. In one of the recent losses he CLANKED two free throws in a row, barely drawing front iron, late. That's tired to me. Like I said, it's just my opinion. Scheyer looks almost more mentally fatigued than physically tired to me. I'm just thinking that if we're as much better than SJU as people think we are, maybe those guys could rest for a game? A few days off for an athlete can make a world of difference. There are NBA players that take a game or two off here and there to rest up for the playoffs. Why can't our guys do the same?


I wish we would schedule a full week off in late Jan or Feb (IE, don't play SJ at all) - many other teams do... Clemson, UNC...

The Gordog
02-18-2009, 11:28 PM
Some of the guys just look tired (both physically and mentally) out there to me. ACC games just beat you up, plain and simple, especially this year. It's funny, we used to talk about how ridiculously physical some of the other conferences were, but I think the ACC is pretty much there now.

I said guys looked tired to me a few games ago and was shouted down, but I'm seeing more people mention it now. In particular, Scheyer and Singler just seem tired to me. Especially when they start missing shots and free throws consistently short in the last 15 minutes or so of games. I wonder if it would be smart to play Plumlee and Williams more against SJU and let some of the guys, particularly Jon and Kyle, get some rest. I don't like the idea of letting games go, and I think we should still beat SJU, but would it be worth it to lose a game or two more now in order to be rested headed into the tourneys? Maybe not. I know our guys are tough and will gut it out, and that K has always shortened the bench as the season gets late, but some of these guys just look exhausted to me. Maybe a few of them need a little break. JMHO.

I don't mean to pick on you BW, but I have seen this "tired" thing so many times it's making me sick. Singler has been missing his first or second shot of almost every game and it's almost always short. He's not tired, he's just trying to be a little to much finese, or maybe he's saving himself but he's not tired. Against BC he was 3-8 in the first half and 5-9 in the second - was he more tired in the first half?

I just don't agree that Singler looks at all tired. I think it's a tired excuse:D

chrisheery
02-18-2009, 11:39 PM
for the guys being mentally tired. The idea of playing the backups more appeals to me for this reason. Maybe giving the starters a little time off will make them excited to play again. It would be nice to see them chomping at the bit to get in there and play again. Right now, it looks like they are just worn out mentally.

Brian913
02-19-2009, 09:31 AM
If anyone is planning on going to the game, is there a decent bar near MSG where a Dukie could have some pre-game refreshments?

I'd hate to get dehydrated!

I'll be at the game. You might want to try Tir na Nog. 8th between 33 & 34th. It's on the west side of the street.

JBDuke
02-19-2009, 10:11 AM
Well its that time of year again. I thought I'd share with you guys again the St. John's perspective with our preview and analysis on the game. Always curious as to your thoughts on the game.

www.johnnyjungle.com/CBTS021909


Also if you want to hear from our fans this is our forum

www.johnnyjungle.com/forum (server is updating so its down right now for a short period of time)

I'll check back to get some more dicussion on the game.

Johnny, welcome back to DBR, and thanks for the links. Looking forward to the game tonight, as MSG is a great place to play, and no matter what kind of season they're having, St. John's always seems to be up for us.

And can you believe that there's a UConn guy showing up here and rooting for you guys to win? Isn't that some sort of Big East heresy? It'd be like me pulling for Carolina to be Syracuse or something...

devildeac
02-19-2009, 10:23 AM
If anyone is planning on going to the game, is there a decent bar near MSG where a Dukie could have some pre-game refreshments?

I'd hate to get dehydrated!

Don't know any bars but you could get an adequate amount of electrolytes from a Carnegie Deli sammich about 15 blocks north of MSG before or after the game:D.

whereinthehellami
02-19-2009, 10:38 AM
Here is a 6 minute youtube of St. Johns versus Georgetown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CS4tM6RIhw)in the 1985 final four game. These are the teams I grew up watching. That St. Johns team was good and alot of fun to watch. The Redmen had Chris Mullen, Willie Glass, Walter Berry, and Bill Wellington.

Indoor66
02-19-2009, 10:54 AM
Here is a 6 minute youtube of St. Johns versus Georgetown (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CS4tM6RIhw)in the 1985 final four game. These are the teams I grew up watching. That St. Johns team was good and alot of fun to watch. The Redmen had Chris Mullen, Willie Glass, Walter Berry, and Bill Wellington.

That was a great team. I do believe it is Wennington.

bjornolf
02-19-2009, 11:33 AM
I don't mean to pick on you BW, but I have seen this "tired" thing so many times it's making me sick. Singler has been missing his first or second shot of almost every game and it's almost always short. He's not tired, he's just trying to be a little to much finese, or maybe he's saving himself but he's not tired. Against BC he was 3-8 in the first half and 5-9 in the second - was he more tired in the first half?

I just don't agree that Singler looks at all tired. I think it's a tired excuse:D

As I already wrote in a recent post, in a recent loss, Singler clanked two FTs in a row, BARELY drawing front iron, in the last ten minutes of the game. Missing the first short is understandable, but not two in a row THAT short. Infer what you will.

Reddevil
02-19-2009, 12:46 PM
It is refreshing to see an emphasis here on mental fatigue, and dehydration as opposed to physical fatigue. Call me old-school, but when I was that age I would often play from dawn until dusk every weekend of the Summer, and many weekdays depending on my workload. We all did didn't we? We played hard, worked hard, and partied all night. Granted, it was just pick-up ball, and not every possesion was hotly contested, but my point is the energy level in August was no different that is was in June. 18-22 year olds are bursting with energy. We would hit the water fountain between games, and keep going. I do not buy into the physical fatigue argument at all. In the Army we busted our tails and went out every night looking for Germany's many gifts (Reagan era). Young men do not physically tire over time, whether it's big-time organized basketball, or biking in the mountains. Mental fatigue is another matter. Dehydration should be monitored closely by the staff, so I hope that is not a problem.

bjornolf
02-19-2009, 12:53 PM
It is refreshing to see an emphasis here on mental fatigue, and dehydration as opposed to physical fatigue. Call me old-school, but when I was that age I would often play from dawn until dusk every weekend of the Summer, and many weekdays depending on my workload. We all did didn't we? We played hard, worked hard, and partied all night. Granted, it was just pick-up ball, and not every possesion was hotly contested, but my point is the energy level in August was no different that is was in June. 18-22 year olds are bursting with energy. We would hit the water fountain between games, and keep going. I do not buy into the physical fatigue argument at all. In the Army we busted our tails and went out every night looking for Germany's many gifts (Reagan era). Young men do not physically tire over time, whether it's big-time organized basketball, or biking in the mountains. Mental fatigue is another matter. Dehydration should be monitored closely by the staff, so I hope that is not a problem.

Definitely. Mental fatigue can be far worse than physical fatigue, as it is so much harder to quantify and explain. It can also be harder to overcome, as just resting isn't always the answer. In my previous post on other threads, mental fatigue was my biggest worry, but I got shot down pretty hard for mentioning it.

geraldsneighbor
02-19-2009, 06:48 PM
to start tonight says Wojo. McClure will not play.

FireOgilvie
02-19-2009, 07:06 PM
Oriole Way, you got your... way!

Scheyer at PG, E-Will at SG.

FireOgilvie
02-19-2009, 07:17 PM
Good to see Plumlee get some minutes. He's going to be the big man of the future for us. I just hope it is sooner rather than later.

DukeCO2009
02-19-2009, 07:24 PM
Gonna try something different this game. Here's my semi-immediate reaction to the start of the game. Let's see how this compares to my end analysis.

LOVE what I'm seeing so far. We seem to have the early game jitters, but we still look like a totally different team.

1) Elliot made a bad defensive play a had a charge called on him, but man oh man do I love seeing him attack the basket! We need more giuys to do that!

2) Speaking of which, Scheyer is putting it on the floor more often than he typically does, which plays to his skill as a foul shooter.

3) Nolan had a wonderful pass to Plumlee, too, who IMO has a knack for being in the right place at the right time. Great to see that he's played more; as I've said in other thread, I really think he needs a huge increase in minutes.

4) Kyle is playing smart, steady basketball as well, and I think Bobby Knight is halfway considering adopting him. The Bird comparison was just just made, and was even prefaced with, "I hesitate to say this but..." Man crush?

5) Good minutes from Lance so far.

We're doing the right things, and if we can settle down a bit and IMO we'll get a good win out of this.

EDIT: Scheyer 2/2 from deep, both of which were GOOD shots. Glad to see that his shot selection has improved. Great start.

Ima Facultiwyfe
02-19-2009, 07:32 PM
....where's McClure? have I missed something?

Indoor66
02-19-2009, 07:33 PM
....where's McClure? have I missed something?

Sick - flu

superdave
02-19-2009, 07:53 PM
Why do I get the feeling that Paulus backs the ball out and re-sets the offense at least once per possesion?

Why do our guys not hit teammates who are flashing open off curls?

Why does a guy sit back with a clear lane to the hoop?

Attack!!!!!!!!!!!!

arnie
02-19-2009, 07:58 PM
Great to see Williams "activated" for this game. He'll make a few mistakes, but he adds so much. Don't know if Scheyer and Williams as a backcourt can stand up to a lot of pressure, but I'm glad we're trying something else.

geraldsneighbor
02-19-2009, 08:00 PM
I wonder if the motive here for K was to make Scheyer dribble more and not become just a shooter, which is what he became in recent weeks. This way he expands his game back to where it was in December and January being Duke's most versatile threat.

dbd4ever
02-19-2009, 08:00 PM
Why do I get the feeling that Paulus backs the ball out and re-sets the offense at least once per possesion?

I was just sitting here thinking the same thing! And it seems as though two or three times in the first half, the ball was being moved pretty good through the offense and he stopped it and backed it out. Shouldn't you keep the ball moving in order to catch the defense out of place or a missed assignment?

Faison1
02-19-2009, 08:00 PM
I'm very happy we are up by 11 points at the half. At the same time, I find it hard to believe we have regressed so far at the point guard position. And in late February.

And poor Zoubek!! Did the guy get 2-3 minutes in the half....and only when Plumlee got in foul trouble?

dbd4ever
02-19-2009, 08:03 PM
I think this might be one of those games that Zoubek isn't gonna see much time because of the style and personnel of the other team as opposed to his performance.

Newton_14
02-19-2009, 08:04 PM
Nice progress in what is basically a "starting over" point for this team.

Welcome Eliot Williams! Some of us knew you had this in you if the light bulb would just go off.

Some good things in this half, mixed in with a little bit of bad. It is clear the confidence has taken a hit and needs to be reestablished, but as the half progressed we started to see some of that come back. Overall a nice start back down the path of success.

Let's see if they can build on that in the 2nd half and take another step forward. This game has nothing to do with St Johns and how bad or good their team is. It is 100% about Duke getting back on the road to recovery. Let's hope the therapy the good doctor K is administering is the correct approach. So far so good.

InSpades
02-19-2009, 08:08 PM
Love the new starting lineup. I posted in the thread after the BC game hoping to see a Scheyer, Henderson, McClure, Singler and Thomas lineup but this is close enough for me (get well quick Dave! We will need you sunday). Elliot definitely has the potential to be a big contributor for this team and he needs a chance to prove whether he can do it consistently or not. I think Duke is at their best defensively when anyone can switch and play anyone on the opposing team and this lineup can do just that.

Faison1
02-19-2009, 08:09 PM
I agree with Boozer.....let's hope they can get the swagger back. I'm very happy for EWill and Plumlee, both of whom look confident and athletic.

I'm not sure if they are able, but it would be nice to see some serious running to play into G's strengths......and Lance's for that matter.

yancem
02-19-2009, 08:11 PM
I'm sure that McClure's illness, the recent play of Smith and Paulus and the level of competition have a lot to do with the minutes that Williams is getting but it is nice to see him in the game. He had several positive plays in the first half and I really believe that if he had received more playing time earlier in the season that we would have been seeing this level of play before now.

I'm a firm believer that one learns more in game situations than during practices. Both Williams and Plumlee have made bad freshman mistakes but they have also both shown some solid play at times (when they have gotten on the court that is). I wish the K would play some of his greener but still talent players more early in games when they can get used to playing with the starters. A few more minutes here or there earlier in the season could really speed up their development. I know that he has played the freshman at the end of blow outs but that is not the same as playing alongside the starters and against the other teams key players.

The minute distribution in the first half was closer to what I was hoping for at the beginning of the season.

MChambers
02-19-2009, 08:12 PM
Welcome Eliot Williams! Some of us knew you had this in you if the light bulb would just go off.

Mixed metaphor alert!

Bob Green
02-19-2009, 08:13 PM
I will be looking for us to "win" the second half as well as the game. It is important that we put together a complete 40 minutes tonight in preparation for the rest of the season.

rthomas
02-19-2009, 08:16 PM
What is this crap by Knight and ESPN?

miramar
02-19-2009, 08:16 PM
Since Duke needed to shake up the guard play, I thought it would be a good idea for Coach K to start Elliot Williams.

I never thought it would happen, but I guess Coach K has ESPN!

MB in MD
02-19-2009, 08:29 PM
Bobby Knight has several times said that he likes our offense as a 1-4 with Scheyer and 4 forwards. I wonder if K is listening

Newton_14
02-19-2009, 08:35 PM
Mixed metaphor alert!

Nice catch. You guys are tough around here on goofs! So yes, nice to see the light bulb switch ON for Eliot.

bluebear
02-19-2009, 08:43 PM
What is this crap by Knight and ESPN?

But no announcer praises Duke the way Knight does...I want him doing all our games..

Cameron
02-19-2009, 08:48 PM
I second "The Dukes" sentiment. What the hell is that? Now I know how Gonzaga fans must feel when they're called the Zags.

I love Bobby Knight and what he brings as an announcer, but if I hear him (unbelievably he said it as I typed, just now)...

Please stop it, Bobby. That's ludicrous.

dukeforester
02-19-2009, 08:48 PM
I wish Knight would quit calling us the Dukes. I keep thinking of John Wayne's family.

_Gary
02-19-2009, 08:50 PM
Is Elliot ok? I thought he pulled up lame at just under the 8 minute mark when he started to dribble across the lane and had the ball poked away. I know Duke called a TO right after that and he was taken out.

Gary

P.S. Never mind, he's back in. Whew!

kaufmjo
02-19-2009, 08:52 PM
1. At game and I've never seen such a weak crowd. Honestly the most noise was the T-shirt toss

2. Lance is really fun to watch now. He's improved a lot. Zoubek is really struggling

3. Bob Harris really is the man. Sitting right next to me and has an incredibly well maintained silver coiff

Cameron
02-19-2009, 09:00 PM
kauf:

Walk down to the General and let him know Duquesne is back in Pittsburgh. Not sure what game he's watching.

_Gary
02-19-2009, 09:15 PM
Ughhh! Get this one done and in the books, please!!! I don't need any more heart attacks.